Season 3 Finale: Maryam Raya -- Concert Pianist & Entrepreneur

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
["Pomp and Circumstance"]

(00:30):

(01:00):

(01:24):
Welcome back to another episode.
In the last episode of season three of The Piano Part,
I am your host, Yukimisou.
This is the last one until I return
for season four in mid-September.
For this season finale, I interviewed Ms. Mariam Raya,
concert pianist, entrepreneur,

(01:44):
and once described as a complete artist of the 21st century.
I wanted to invite her as a guest speaker
for the season three finale episode
because I thought it was timely and appropriate
to finish this fantastic season with a pianist like Mariam,
who is not only an incredible artist,
but also she is an entrepreneur,
has a degree in literature,

(02:05):
and also another degree in business management from Italy.
She also collaborates with professionals
from the film industry.
Yeah, she is living the life.
Anyway, you know, I first started this podcast
with my colleagues at the height of the pandemic.
And in the last three years,

(02:26):
I got to interview many incredible pianists and composers,
educators, and entrepreneurs who are thinking outside the box
to engage with the 21st century audiences creatively.
Honestly, it's been interesting
because each season has its own sort of theme.
And season one was mostly about

(02:46):
how we could get through isolation, right?
And what we were learning through unusual circumstances
that were happening globally.
We were in survival mode at the time.
Then season two was mostly about what they discovered
through the pandemic life.
And now at the end of season three,
this entire season has been a growing experience

(03:09):
for me as a podcaster, educator, pianist,
and most importantly, as a person.
I've learned so much through each guest
and content creation.
Anyway, this season's theme,
without much intention on my end,
has been all about audience engagement.
I guess three plus years of pandemic
really forced us to think about who we are

(03:30):
and rediscover and redefine our mission
as artists and music educators.
So to complete this series of audience engagement,
Miriam is the perfect guest to end it on the high note
so that I can reset the mindset for the next season,
which is season four.
And I cannot wait to meet the future guests of the piano pod

(03:51):
through interesting conversations
and learn how they will lead the new season's pathway.
So before getting started,
I want to welcome everyone who is listening
or watching the piano pod for the first time.
I'm a classical pianist and educator from New York City,
passionate about creating a thriving
and meaningful community of the classical music industry

(04:14):
through this podcast.
Please visit ukimisongstudio.com
to find out more about my work.
In each episode of the piano pod,
I interview a guest speaker
who has been breaking exciting new ground in the industry.
Before getting started,
I want to thank everyone for tuning in.
Please rate the show and review it
on wherever you get your podcast
because every rating review will help people find my show.

(04:37):
So here we go, dear friends,
the season finale of the piano pod
with a guest, Miriam Raya.
Please enjoy the show.
["Piano Pod"]
You are listening to the piano pod
where we talk to the brightest minds in the industry
about how they are bringing the piano into the 21st century.

(04:57):
["Piano Pod"]
I am honored to welcome Miriam Raya,
American-born international concert pianist,
entrepreneur, and complete artist of the 21st century
as a season finale of the piano pod.
Welcome, Miriam.
Thanks for being here.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
I'm very excited to be able to interview you

(05:18):
and then really hear your stories.
So your videos and photos showed up
in my social media feed quite often.
I think obviously you're both pianists
and they were both from New York City.
So probably we have quite a lot of mutual friends.
And I noticed your performances on social media,
photos, very beautiful professional photos.

(05:39):
And then also from what I understood,
I think you went to NYU or you taught there.
Yes, the kind of professional certificate.
And then, yes, two years teaching there
about 20 hours a week, I remember.
Oh, yeah.
I did the same thing, professional degree at NYU.
So I don't think we crossed paths with each other

(06:00):
because I think I graduated first.
I'm much older.
But yeah, I think that's one of the reasons
I see you quite often and I knew of you.
Then also you used to be, I think, in the fashion model.
And then you were into visual art.
That got me really interested because I love visual art too.

(06:21):
And then, for example, even like fashion, to me,
fashion designers are artists.
And people often associate fashion with luxurious things.
But actually they are artists in any other art form,
like paint and sculpture.
And so they're basically displaying their art
on the human bodies.
But I can talk about fashion forever.
But anyways.

(06:42):
You can talk about fashion as much as you want.
It's really fun.
Anyway, so you were described as a complete pianist
of the 31st century by this French magazine.
And I really love that.
And then I usually ask this philosophical questions
toward the end of the show.
But I wanted to start with you with this.
What is a complete pianist of the 21st century like?

(07:04):
I'm looking at her right in front of my eyes
through this computer screen right now.
But in your words, how do you describe it?
What does it mean to you?
I think kind of going back to that interview I had
with that magazine, I remember talking a lot
about how piano is sort of the medium
with which I feel I want to not only express myself,

(07:28):
but be able to achieve a sense of craftsmanship.
I think that piano and music in general
is such an abstract art form.
And I think part of that contrasting to something
that's visual or like going to a gallery
is that when you're kind of looking at something visual,
it's a lot more immediate.
And as pianists, we have to think about
how do we make this abstract form that immediate?

(07:52):
And so for me, piano is just the starting point
to achieve that.
And the sort of completeness that I really strive towards
as an artist is being inspired by like, you are fashion.
I'm also very inspired by fashion, also literature.
And I think that's very much in line
with the tradition of these great composers that we play

(08:12):
because they were in their own respective times
very much impacted and very much in conversation
with other artists of their own times
in every single time period
and all of classical music history
and other types of music as well.
So I think it's really important in the 21st century
that we keep that tradition of being open

(08:34):
and always using the text as a kind of starting point
to think about, okay, this was written
maybe a couple of hundred years ago or 100 years ago
or maybe 500 years ago.
How do we reinterpret that for today?
So I think I never really think about,
I mean, of course, being, it's interesting

(08:54):
because we talk so much as pianists
about being honest to the text,
but funnily enough, part of that is also being honest
to the context of the text
and realizing that we are constantly reinterpreting
every time we perform.
I mean, I know you as a performing artist as well,
I'm sure you've had pieces in your repertoire

(09:15):
that you've played for many years.
And for me, every time, every time I practice,
every time I prepare for a new performance
is totally different.
So it's a completeness of these works are very much alive.
I think that's really the job,
one of the jobs or responsibilities as a pianist, right?
Like what this piece of music from 300 years ago,

(09:37):
for example, means to us or how we can relate
to this piece of music written so many decades
or hundreds of years ago.
Absolutely.
And I think even, especially with 20th century compositions,
a lot of these composers dedicated their compositions
to pianists who were living.

(09:57):
They were written for pianists to perform at the time.
But even then, even though it's so close,
it's within the same context,
pianist is still interpreting.
Everything is really an interpretation.
And for me, that's part of why I respect teachers so much
because it's so difficult to be able to teach that sense

(10:18):
of continual discovery to a student.
I mean, I know it's so difficult to,
as a performer to embody that.
It's almost like you have to live it.
Right, right, absolutely.
And living in the tradition.
Right, living in the tradition,
but in the 21st century time zone.
Right, yeah.
Definitely.
That's the challenging part.
So for my listeners, let me reintroduce Miriam Raya

(10:42):
by citing her brief bio.
Miriam has performed at world renowned concert halls
such as Carnegie Hall, the Kennedy Center,
Lincoln Center, and among many others,
dazzling audiences with her virtuosity
and exuberant energy for their arts.
Her passion for the interconnectivity of all art forms
has led her to perform in places outside

(11:03):
of the traditional recital halls,
such as art galleries and museums and film festivals
and fashion festivals as well.
And additionally, she has collaborated
with New York's leading industry professionals in the film.
Alongside with her studies at the piano,
Miriam has obtained degrees in literature with honors.
And recently she completed her business management degree

(11:26):
from the Bocconi School of Management.
Miriam is passionate about making classical music
accessible to younger audiences with upcoming performances
and exciting new projects on the horizon.
Miriam is enthusiastic about connecting with audiences
around the globe through her performance and social media.
So here we are continuing our conversation

(11:49):
to learn more about Miriam's adventurous life
and exciting career as a concert pianist and entrepreneur,
which will later lead us to a more philosophical discussion
about her vision for the classical piano industry.
So Miriam, let's start with this.
How did you discover the love for piano?
Is your family musical?
It's funny you ask when I saw that first question.

(12:11):
My parents are not musicians.
I am the first musician in my family.
My parents felt that it was very important for me
to have an early childhood music education.
They felt that that's part of the general education.
They felt that artistic and musical education
can help in so many other subjects
and that the discipline it takes to practice piano every day

(12:34):
can really translate to everything in life.
So they started me at a very young age.
I think I was maybe four years old
and I kind of took off with it,
which is something that they never expected,
but they were very supportive.
So that was very interesting for them.
And now they're very much into classical music.
My mom loves opera, Broadway.

(12:57):
My dad loves classical music as well.
So it's a journey for us all, let's just put it that way.
You seem to have bases in multiple locations worldwide.
You are a world traveler.
Every time I try to connect with you
and you're like, oh, I'm traveling.
So did you grow up in an environment
where you travel quite often, like your family business?

(13:19):
Well, so I was born in Washington, DC,
and I did do many performances,
especially in my teenage years
that were at so many festivals.
I had the opportunity to travel for those.
And then I guess more recently,
because I decided to do my business administration degree
abroad in Milan, that was a really fantastic location

(13:42):
to study because it's very central to Europe.
So that gave me the opportunity to be able to easily travel,
especially for concerts from there.
Born in DC and now based in New York City.
So totally East Coast.
That's right.
Tell me about your musical training
and maybe your mentors.
Yeah, so as I mentioned, I studied quite early.

(14:05):
Started quite early.
Actually, my parents first put me
in a group class called Music Mind Games.
I'm not sure it's a, I think Suzuki method.
And that was when I was three or four.
And then they started me with private piano lessons.
And as a teenager, growing up in the sort of DC metropolitan

(14:26):
area, I was very lucky to study with a piano faculty
on the University of Maryland campus.
His name was Mikhail Valkchuk.
So I did my pre-college studies with him.
And then I went to the Eastman School of Music
for my bachelor's and master's.
And I studied with Natalia Antonova.

(14:47):
So I'm very much of the Russian piano school.
And that, you know, that's, I love a lot of Russian pianists.
I play a lot of Russian composers.
So those two were really my main teachers
after my master's at Eastman.
I moved to New York 2015 and I've been pretty much
solidly based from here ever since.

(15:09):
I've had, you know, I've had the opportunity to study
especially through youth festivals
and kind of competitions.
I've had the opportunity to study with so many, you know,
living concert artists through master classes.
And it's always so inspiring to, from an early age,
just gain the wisdom from someone who's, you know,

(15:32):
doing the thing and just like, just like my mentors.
I was always very inspired by those teachers in my life.
I mean, larger than life personalities.
So.
And also you are interested in different things, you know,
not only music and probably you excelled in them too.
So for example, literature.
So you are a literature enthusiast.

(15:55):
And I love literature.
That's actually why I went to Eastman
because it was very difficult for me when I was 15
because I really wanted to study both.
And, you know, so I was looking at a lot
of dual degree programs, but you know, more importantly
I was really looking for something not,
that would be 95% conservatory, 5% academics

(16:17):
but I was really looking to have a solid like BA
in literature alongside my piano studies.
And what I really loved about Eastman was that its program
with the University of Rochester really enabled me
to study, you know, piano obviously at a very high level
with Natalia Antonova, who was just incredible.
And then also have a really solid education,

(16:39):
undergraduate education and something academic.
So that's really why I was very, you know,
grateful to have had that opportunity
because I really wanted to have, especially
as an undergraduate, that kind of base.
Right.
Now, do you ever marry these two together
as a musical training to your knowledge
and interest in literature?

(17:00):
I do.
And it's in terms of marrying them,
that's really reflected mostly in the sort of repertoire
that I choose to play.
I can maybe give an example of that.
Liszt has his years of pilgrimage that were, you know,
inspired by his travels and also the literature
and the artwork of so many different cultures.

(17:21):
And I performed the Italian one most recently
and I really enjoy sharing when I perform, you know,
for audiences, I really enjoy sharing that this,
for example, the Petrarch sonnets,
this is based on these poems.
And it's not even that it's just based on them,
it's literally the musical version of them.

(17:43):
Like he wanted to be so honest with the literary source.
And so the way I married my two loves of life,
my two passions is that I go back
to what we were talking about earlier,
that everything is just so connected.
And embodying that is, I think, our challenge as artists
because it's so easy to split them apart,

(18:04):
but that's not entirely honest.
Right, it's very easy to split them apart
because sometimes we have to shut off some noise
in order for us to be able to practice for hours, hours, right?
So, yeah, that's a whole other conversation
we should actually have because, you know, pianists,
we're so, it's like, it's a high barrier to entry,

(18:26):
you know, just from the beginning,
because, I mean, you know, vocalists, for example,
I don't think they can practice more than one hour
or an hour and a half.
Right, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, it's very physical, but as pianists,
it's so much time just to be able to master the medium.
And so to go further as an artist

(18:47):
and really realize that the piano is a medium
and it's not just the end,
but it's actually just the tool
to express something so much larger is really difficult
when mastering the tool itself takes a lifetime
and more than a lifetime.
I know, we can never accomplish all the piano
and the literature out there in one life, right?

(19:09):
Yeah, well, that's, yeah, it's a blessing and a curse.
I mean, I know that's super cliche,
but there are so many works
that I just randomly will discover on YouTube
played by also new pianists that I've discovered
that have fortunately left recordings.
And I'll be able to,
it's just completely something new every day,

(19:29):
not only with the pieces in the repertoire
that we've been playing for years,
but just in general, it's like very vast.
Yeah, absolutely.
In continuation with that conversation,
as being pianist,
basically being stuck in the practice room hours and hours.
And also it takes certain personality to become pianist,
because if you are always outgoing

(19:51):
and always with people, that's very difficult.
It's a very difficult profession.
However, I feel like we have to be engaged with more people,
more audience engagement,
of which we will discuss in a minute.
So after graduating with music degrees
and in the literature too,
what was it like to be in the real world

(20:11):
as a concert pianist?
Was it like a red carpet ready?
Everybody is ready for you?
No, no, I don't think that's the case for, no.
When you study something,
and this is the case, I think, in any field,
that when you study something
and then you wanna apply it to the real world,
it's like a total wake up moment.
Because in school, in any conservatory

(20:32):
or any obviously university music program,
you're really working on, in my case,
it was one or two serious programs a year
preparing for a jury.
And as pianists, most of us are naturally
extremely detail-oriented, so that's great.
We really get to go deep into these works
and we usually graduate after bachelor's or after master's

(20:54):
with this kind of serious collection.
I should say, of serious works of the literature
that we can play really well.
And then when we go out in the real world,
we don't necessarily realize that sometimes,
sometimes those super serious pieces
are not necessarily accessible naturally to an audience.

(21:15):
I definitely went through a huge learning curve,
and I don't think I'm the only one,
trying to figure out how to learn to play
how to learn to adapt.
Because it's kind of just this totally different muscle
that you have to learn and I'm still learning.
I had a concert recently that I didn't realize,

(21:39):
just in terms of the venue,
I needed to make a last minute change
in the program essentially,
because sometimes you don't realize like,
oh, this program maybe is too heavy for the occasion,
or maybe I need to add something else,
or it's too much virtuoso stuff,
or it's too much Chopin wallets,
like mellow sentimental stuff.
So you just never know and you have to be so flexible.

(22:00):
And it's very, very difficult,
because I think even pianists who have been performing
for three, four decades, they still have their surprises.
And so, I think the most challenging thing about it
is that no one can really teach that.

(22:21):
I mean, like so much in the real world,
like nobody, you just have to go out and you learn,
like every occasion, how to program,
like how to, I know we're gonna talk about marketing,
but like how to sell a program, what to say.
Even with talking to audiences,
what's interesting to me about a composer
might not necessarily be interesting to the audience.
Right.

(22:42):
So it's this constant process
of seeing what you're doing objectively.
And in the same way that we kind of listen to ourselves
in the practice room to figure out like, okay,
this details, this needs improvement, et cetera, et cetera.
We do that all our lives,
and like constantly just getting outside ourselves
and trying to figure out what works.

(23:03):
Sure, sure.
But that's, I guess, interesting part
of actually going out there and become the person, right?
Rather than just stuck in the practice room
and hoping for something to happen.
So now let's talk about your career
as an international concert pianist performing at venues,

(23:23):
from let's say Carnegie Hall, Kennedy Center.
And also you do perform at venues
outside of this traditional recital halls.
So tell me, do you have any interesting experience?
Yeah, so actually today I just was looking
at the Facebook memories.

(23:43):
And so one year ago today was a favorite experience actually.
And that was in Italy where I got to collaborate
with the stained glass museum.
And it's Venetian stained glass.
It's like a very much Italian craftsmanship.
Yeah, it was a conference with this glass making artist.

(24:04):
And they really wanted to have that complimented
with just a short program.
So that was so inspiring
because it was a pretty good sized audience.
They're just interested.
It was like a cultural kind of organization.
There were about 60 people there.
And they put the piano in the center
and just these kind of tables with the open books,

(24:26):
just showing the glass art and you can read about it.
And the glass artist was there,
is originally from Venice.
That was so moving to me
because something I really like to talk about
and like to think about is the fact
that pianists were really just craftsmen.
And it was so inspiring to be alongside someone

(24:49):
and just contribute to a conference
where they're sort of showing how valuable that is,
especially now when everything is slowly becoming
so much more digitized.
I think it's really important and really precious
when we can just appreciate what's actually done
with the human hand, literally.
Yeah, I'm sure.
I mean, but you're really living the dream.
You get to perform in these interesting venues

(25:11):
and not just in Italy and New York,
but also you formed in Dubai, I think, no?
Yeah, when I was quite young,
I got the opportunity, I'm thinking along the lines of DC,
I got the opportunity in the Polish embassy
to play Petarewski's piano.
Wow, really?
Yeah, I played the third ballad of Chopin.

(25:32):
I remember it because that was my first time
performing the third ballad and I was very nervous.
You know, when we're younger,
I think I would have been even more nervous now
because when we're younger, we don't know it, we don't know.
Exactly.
🎶

(26:14):
You seem to also play not only the regular well-known pieces, but also I've

(26:44):
seen your performance of let's say Joseph Hoffman, which you know not a lot of
people would play those pieces. I loved allergy, vision, and some other pieces by
Hoffman. Now what's your obsession or attraction toward Joseph Hoffman?
Oh, it's an obsession. I'm worried I'm gonna talk too much.

(27:05):
Okay, no, no, no. I actually want you to talk a lot.
Yeah, I want to talk about Hoffman.
Okay, good. About Hoffman.
Yes.
So my first experience with Hoffman was actually during my undergrad at Eastman.
It was in Kilbourne Hall, which is one of the recital halls there. It was a concert,
a guest artist, and he came out and just didn't even wait for the audience to stop

(27:29):
clapping and just started this piece that made such an impression on me. And nobody,
I mean, you people looked at the program obviously, but nobody recognized the piece. And what
it was was Hoffman's kaleidoscope.

(28:02):
If people know that Hoffman composed, they probably know it from kaleidoscope. It's the
most played of the not very much played. And his student, Shura Cherkasky, has a pretty
famous recording of that, which definitely helped increase the attention, increase the
marketing, if you will. I think he was a, he had been like a formal, a former doctoral

(28:23):
student at the school. He had such a command and a freedom that was so inspiring to me.
And so I never really started studying Hoffman's work seriously until 2020, when all of a sudden
so much of us have a lot more practice time. And I remember I was, I was reading a lot

(28:45):
about him because I knew that of course many pianists know that even Rachmanoff himself,
when Rachmanoff would be approached and told, you're just the greatest pianist ever, like
of all time. And all of these, you know, compliments, Rachmanoff would be just like, actually there's
one above me. And that's, you know, Joseph Hoffman. I was reading so much about his life,

(29:08):
about his inventions and his...
He was a, yeah, innovator. Like he invented a lot of things, right? I know. And you know,
I got to interview this artist, Hannah Ryman. She is actually the advocate for narrow key
piano. Yes, it's called streta piano. And there's like a really strong, like really

(29:29):
firm community of this small, small sized keys and the legit. And then some people get
piano degrees using streta pianos.
Really?
Oh yes. Yes. There's a community now. And then the background of this piano being this
size, you know, the one of them is 6.5 inch has its own story. It started around like

(29:52):
Franz Liszt, him being the six feet tall, you know, male, then as opposed to, you know,
because piano keys used to be narrow. Anyway, so Joseph Hoffman, I think I believe he's
a, he was a small sized man, right? Compared.
Yes.
Yeah. So then Rachmanoff being really big, you know.

(30:12):
That's an interesting contrast. Yeah. I never...
Right. Yeah. Then the Hoffman actually, Mr. Hoffman invented or created this narrow key,
reinvented this narrow key piano. Yeah. So it's interesting. Yeah.
I like so much. I know we're going to get into the kind of marketing and making, you
know, classical music sort of accessible, which is always a touchy topic that depending

(30:36):
on how you kind of phrase it. But the thing that I do like about Hoffman, the first thing
that struck me about his compositions was that they're generally miniatures. I would
say generally five to seven minutes. I mean, his elegy is like two and a half minutes,
but they're generally shorter, smaller scale works. And they have these titles that are

(30:59):
so like, I recently for a live broadcast, I recorded his penguins, which is so humorous
and so quirky.
Wow.
Yeah. And it's just, it's, this is like, this is even the compositions themselves, you know,
their titles are evocative of something else. So this is something that in a way is kind

(31:21):
of not surprising because he was primarily a concert artist and he performed, I mean,
like crazy. I think he had some, maybe the most concerts of any pianist ever. So of course
he would understand that, you know, what works and what doesn't because he's out there doing

(31:43):
the thing. Yeah. He's there. There are some, there are some, you know, technically difficult
ones, but in general, they're very pianistic because they're written by a pianist.
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Let's talk about pianists, classical pianists being creative, creative process. Now, first

(32:57):
of all, I get this from students, parents a lot. Oh, you classical pianists, you just
read notes from the score as opposed to pianists of other genres. They improvise, so they are
more creative. So classical musicians, you guys are not. That's what I hear. So that's
why some of the parents shows a little bit of a resistance or hesitant about putting

(33:21):
their kids into classical music training. So are we classical pianists creative or can
we or should we?
I think we should be. And I think that inherently we can be, but that the tradition was more
improvisatory. For example, when I was just listening, not recently, actually, this was

(33:43):
some time ago, I was listening to one of Liszt's students playing his 12th Hungarian Rhapsody,
obviously very old recording. And the way he improvised on it and he improvised on it
so much and he took so many liberties that it was almost as if the text itself was just
a skeleton, wasn't there was not supposed to be the finished product and the product

(34:08):
was supposed to be done by the performer. I don't know if I would say that it needs
to be brought back in its entirety, but I think the thought behind the tradition is
essential because going back to what we were talking about earlier with pieces we've had
in our repertoire for so many years, I never like to be locked into the mindset like, oh,

(34:30):
I'm just bringing this back. I'm just bringing this back for another performance.
My teacher when I was, I think, 11 or 12 told me every time you look at the score, you need
to see something different. Like no matter, you need to find something different. You
always need to go deeper. So we are improvising because we're recreating in the moment, but

(34:52):
it's just, again, so much more abstract.
Yeah, even the interpretation takes imagination sometimes. Of course, you get information
from the score, but also information from reading the biography or all these research
that was made by scholars and everything. But in the end, as you say, just every time

(35:15):
you see the score, every time you go through the passage is different. That is actually
the creative part of being a musician, right?
Totally.
So I've been doing this podcast for three years and then last season, I think most of
our conversations with most of the guests went towards this interdisciplinary work as

(35:37):
a pianist, classical pianist and collaboration, how important it is. And then when times like
this during pandemic made us really realize about the importance of connecting to other
people. And then especially that's when we realized, oh, connecting to people that are
not just within our industry or within the classical piano industry, but beyond that.

(36:05):
So you are interested in many things and without even collaborating with others, you have your
interdisciplinary sort of work and maybe even genre. I want to know. But also you do like
a collaborate with film and visual artists. And I watched actually this video you play,

(36:26):
oh, Stravinsky etude. And then I think you collaborated with a videographer.
Yes, it was one of his etudes, I think, if I'm remembering correctly.
Yes, yes.
And yeah, a friend of mine, it's a very, you know, early Stravinsky to me is quite mystical.

(36:47):
And I think I uploaded a video of me just kind of practicing it. And I have a friend
at the time, videographer, really into like nature and to think that video featured a
lot of water. And he wanted to sort of set that. And I was really inspired by the way

(37:08):
he set that piece, because for two reasons. One, I think any sort of collaboration always,
you know, adds to the adds to the greater impact. So I think it made it much more effective
than playing alone ever could. And two, because in the same way as when you have, you know,
you play something for a great artist and you walk away from that meeting with this

(37:31):
so inspired with this new perspective, that's also possible with these kind of collaborations,
the way he felt that piece made me see it in a completely new light. So I really value
when I can learn. Ultimately, it's about learning from other people, regardless of
the medium. And I think the challenge as artists is to just make sure we remain open.

(37:53):
Hey, TPP friends and listeners, the piano part is in its third season. Thanks to all
of you for watching or listening to every episode since its launch in 2020. I started
this show with a simple question I had in mind for quite some time, which is how can
we as classical pianists and music educators present the beautiful classical music tradition

(38:16):
to the 21st century audience in a fun, contemporary and engaging way. It's been an incredible
journey for the last three years. I love what I do through this podcast, providing a platform
for pianists and educators to reflect and discuss freely how we can keep the classical
music industry thriving and relevant in this rapidly changing world. Now more than ever,

(38:40):
I need your support so that I can continue my work by bringing you highly valuable content
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(39:03):
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fun logo sticker in the mail. So please support my show today and don't forget to subscribe,

(39:29):
continue listening and tell your friends and colleagues about the piano part. Let's now
talk about music business. You went to school in Italy, right? Yes, it's a, Stabacone is
the business school in Milan. And it says one of the 5% of business schools in the world
to hold a triple down accreditation. So what is this triple down accreditation, first of

(39:53):
all? So it's, it's a very international school. So fortunately, you know, the, the program
was in, was in English, so I had more time to learn my Italian off hours, but it's one
of the best, one of the top five in Europe in terms of business schools. So speaking
of, you know, collaborating and meeting other people, my students were from a very international

(40:18):
background. I wasn't the only American, but there were also, you know, many other nationalities
represented. So it was a great learning experience. Did you go to this school during pandemic?
So kind of, I went from 2021 and I graduated in 2022. So not 2020, but it was still, there

(40:38):
were still some restrictions, I think in New York City and some in Italy, although as we
know, Italy was hit the hardest. Right. Yes, I remember. Now, what made you decide to pursue
a business degree? Did this idea come during the pandemic where we all have to think about
our future? Yeah, that was, I think for all of us, a time to really reflect. I felt the

(41:03):
first thing I felt I really need to broaden my skills as much as I love being at the piano
and as obsessive of a practicing person I was, you know, during my teenage years and
during my undergrad and my master's, I felt like there had to be something more. I really
wanted to learn the sorts of skills that would essentially help me, you know, whatever I

(41:27):
end up doing. And the good thing, the reason I chose Stavocconi was that they have kind
of specializations within the school. You can specialize in the luxury sector, for example,
if you want to work for luxury companies or you can specialize in the cultural sector,
which is what I did, even, you know, hospitality. So they have these ways that you can make

(41:49):
it more targeted or customized to ultimately how you want to use these skills. Right. What
specifically you felt like you were missing out from your life that ultimately pursued
this degree? Because it's very different from music itself, playing the piano, right?
It is. So music has such a large impact as a medium. However, the market itself is extremely

(42:17):
small. And for me, when I saw, you know, a classical market had already been struggling
even before the pandemic. And when I saw how many changes needed to happen during the pandemic,
I mean, especially digital wise, recording industry, whether or not live performances
would even be consistently possible again, you know, we were all thinking that in 2020,

(42:39):
I just felt like I needed to have the option to broaden and to be able to see, okay, how
do other markets work and how can this be applied to classical music? We talk so much
about in business school about like, you know, the actual product, right. And that really
applies to every field. And I think that if you understand the business side of things,

(43:03):
you can ultimately make a better product, make a better experience that will reach more
people. Right. I don't subscribe to the view that classical music, just because of tradition,
is immune to market forces. I think we all we wish it would be that way, but it's not.
It's very interesting with this two year, I guess, two years of being abroad in Italy,

(43:25):
this international business school, what did you gain? So in terms of the program was very
accelerated. So I really learned how to balance a lot because I was also playing not so much
in the beginning, but towards the tail end, that was that was difficult. It was very,
very concentrated with many projects. And many projects, not only that were individually

(43:45):
based, but many projects that were group based. And so I learned just working with people.
I equally got a lot of the experience and things that were sort of extrinsic to the
program, just living abroad. And it's just being immersed in a totally new culture. I
mean, I had to learn Italian very quickly. Being forced to adapt is what keeps artists

(44:08):
creative. Absolutely. I agree. Yeah. I actually wanted to there's just an anecdote. So we
had this CEO, or I guess I think technically the term is superintendent of La Scala come
to talk to the business school students. And one thing that he said, Dominique Meyer is
his name. One thing that he said to all of us was almost to force ourselves to kind of

(44:32):
change our surroundings, because we learn so much when we just keep active and keep
moving. Not I not only as creatives, but just as business people. I thought that was really,
really inspiring, especially from, you know, someone who's stands at, you know, the greatest
opera house and then the world. Because that really does apply not only to us business

(44:56):
school students that he was talking to, but also to artists.
So let's talk about really business itself, and marketing and branding. So let's start
with this word business. So among our fellow classical musicians, when I use the word business,
sometimes people correct me, oh, I'm not doing any business, or let's say, oh, you're such

(45:17):
an entrepreneur, as in I was complimenting this person, because she has done so much
with this, you know, creating this organization. And but then they often express themselves
as such, like with that such a disgusted expression on their faces, then they deny. And then some
of these people say, I don't do business, I'm an artist, and music is a holy thing,

(45:43):
and making a business out of something so sacred, like playing Bach is not my thing.
And so what do you think about this? I understand their perspective, because the way I see it,
if you're looking at, I guess, products and markets, classical music is something that's
such a human experience, that it's you cannot really, it's incredibly subjective, you obviously

(46:07):
cannot quantify it. At the same time, we live in the real real world. And I think we have
to be able to communicate that, I would say, unique selling proposition that that like
incredible value, we have to be able to communicate it to more people, because there is a market

(46:30):
for it. And it all depends on how much we can adapt the sort of experience we provide.
That makes sense. Yes, I have so much respect in general for, you know, just obviously classical
musicians, you know, being one I know how much how much work it takes. And so I really
I respect the hesitancy, because it's almost like it doesn't feel sort of pure to think

(46:52):
of it from a business perspective. I think that's probably the source. Yeah, when you
talk to like the examples you're giving me, that's probably the source that they feel
like this is something that's so much higher. But it is. Yeah, it absolutely is. But nobody's
going to know that if it doesn't reach the real world, right? Right, right. Absolutely.
Yeah. Nobody's gonna know that if it's just in the practice room. So when the pandemic

(47:17):
started, I started thinking well, even before I just felt the huge disconnect between the
general audience and then the classical musicians, this is one of the reasons I wanted to start
this podcast just to really explore and discover what's missing and how we can fill the gap.

(47:37):
It's a part of the branding marketing in general. So it's different to brand an artist versus
branding the actual music itself. One thing that makes me really happy to see that's a
lot of progress is that more musicians are more comfortable talking about the works they
play. I think that that's in terms of a movement towards change from what I can see.

(47:59):
That's the number one change that's been happening. And I think people love it because, you know,
as performers, I mean, it's even we're actors in a way. I mean, we have the piano as a medium,
but essentially we are actors. We're communicating something else. And I think that if we can
actually talk directly to an audience that that contextualizes a lot and that's something

(48:22):
that's a very it's effective and it doesn't require so much more than just two minutes
before before a piece, you know, or before like a collection of pieces. But in terms
of branding, I think the challenge really relates to a lot of what I was talking about
at the outset of the interview, which is programming, figuring out what pieces work when and for

(48:46):
what occasion. For example, some Hoffman pieces are so virtuosic and so difficult. And maybe
an audience just wants to hear, you know, Moonlight Sonata. And that's fine. You know,
I think there's a reluctance among pianists to it's like it's like almost like it's too
cliche to play. So I think that we we have to be aware of how the incredibly high value

(49:13):
of our art can also distance ourselves. And that it's again, it's always a double edged
thing. Yeah, but I also feel like giving the audience some sort of a context, right, rather
than just playing those obscure pieces or pieces that are just too high end. But then
we can bring that high end piece to the place where it's approachable by giving them the

(49:38):
context. Right. And it's yeah. And again, it's much more difficult with music, because
for example, with a museum, you know, I could see in a collection some really unknown artist
using a really sophisticated and incredible technique. And I just see it and I form an
impression. It's like, that's amazing. And I move on with music because it's something

(49:58):
that's more abstract, that's unfolding in time. It's almost like we have to work harder
to make a statement. We have to work harder to make it more accessible. And I really I
admire so much artists that know really have a really strong grasp on how to program for
different people and not just about what the you know, the artist likes to play, but what

(50:20):
the audience might appreciate and is able to kind of navigate. It's almost like a you
know, a chef. It's very much it's like you have to like curate a menu in a way.
Definitely. Well, that's a good analogy. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think this is something that,
you know, as the 21st century pianist, we all have to do, you know, because the audience

(50:43):
are not really created for you anymore. You have to go and get them. Do you think? Absolutely.
Yeah. By getting this venue to perform doesn't mean the audience will come automatically.
You actually have to go out and get them. And they are there as in like audiences are
waiting for you, right? Somewhere in the in the world.

(51:04):
They're there. And I mean, but it's the same in any even okay, like look at technology.
Everybody uses technology. There are always tech products coming out. Even if a tech product
is amazing and great and stylish, it still needs to be sold. It still needs to be marketed.
We all know Apple. We all like a lot of us, you know, have like iPhones, love iPhones,

(51:28):
but we wouldn't know about how incredible it was unless it was marketed, unless it was
sold. It's not just because of its superior design and superior quality that we're just
going to go out and experience it. Right. So, you know, that's what I mean by the fact
that it's like, yeah, class, you know, classical music has this incredible tradition and it's
almost like an elite sport, but we also live in the real world and we need to like we need

(51:51):
to work within those parameters in a way. Right. So what's what's the secret there?
Where is that? Does the magic happen when you finally discover your audience and really
sync with them? You know, just like you mentioned about Apple, it's they're not just this wonderful,
highly designed products. Right. But there is a magic that happened and it's like, well,

(52:13):
I have this Apple iPhone or Apple products. How does this magic can happen?
Well, I think the one thing and this maybe is a controversial opinion, but I think pianists
need to not be so reliant on how do I say this, the infrastructure of the industry,
like not be reliant on Asians, managers, venues. Social media has been something that's I've

(52:38):
found really great success with. When I when I say venues, I don't mean I mean, I think
artists need to be artists need to be able to just contact on their own. So many times
we think that an Asian, if we play, you know, amazingly, an Asian is just going to kind
of pick us up or a manager will pick us up. Or, I mean, even like if we win a competition,

(52:58):
even, you know, winning winning an international competition, I mean, it does not guarantee.
Right. Absolutely. And the reason for that is because careers aren't made by competitions.
They're made by other people. Amen. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It's really by people.
Right. Yeah. Everything is a people profession. That's like this is like the revelation I

(53:19):
honestly had, like in the pandemic, because we go to school and we're sort of boxed in
in music school to think like this is what the career is and this is what the career
is going to be. But we don't really realize that the career is made by people who are
the same as us just on the other side of things. And we need to be able to communicate as people
what our product as much as I know, probably some people hate that. But we need to be able

(53:43):
to communicate what that is. It's not going to speak for itself is basically what I'm
trying to say. Right. So, you know, by doing our work in a plane beautifully, it's just
a display of the product. But to connect this product to the general audience, that's another
that's the marketing. That's the branding. Right. I would say so. Now, I want to know

(54:04):
your thoughts on being present and having a footprint in the digital world. You are
very much active on social media. I enjoy your posts. And I do as much as I can to and
then I'm gaining some momentum right now. It's not about popularity, but creating your
own audience. Some people are hesitant about still having to have the footprint in the

(54:25):
digital world. So, you know, including music streaming services and of course, the social
media from Instagram to TikTok to so many others. So it's interesting you mentioned
sorry, social media because I honestly wish I started earlier. I again, I didn't start
until 2020. Two reasons I will the first reason I was saying videos of me playing is because

(54:46):
I needed to hear myself objectively. And the second reason was like, OK, I should probably
share this to someone because I have no live concerts anymore and I want to feel like I
have goals. Sometimes, especially with live stream, it's great to have the pressure of
people watching in real time to just keep you in shape. So that's kind of how it started.
I'm not as consistent as I probably should be. I really admire people who are able to

(55:09):
post even every week, let alone every day. I like to kind of just post a lot of my favorites
and some kind of more famous pieces. One thing I love to do is, especially with pianists
who follow me, is I love to post something that's a little bit unknown and have people
kind of guess, you know, just make it really interactive. That's always fun. But the most
rewarding thing about social media for me actually goes back to Hoffman because I had

(55:34):
some pianists tell me that they never knew Hoffman composed and they really like his
pieces and they're starting to look at his pieces. And that just made me so happy because
it makes me feel like I can... It's not just about the fact that I like it and other people
like it too. It's about the fact that I shared something that was new. And so that's been

(55:55):
really rewarding.
And I think it's really more relevant these days to have this as one of the ways to create
your community and audience, right?
Yeah. So what are you going to do with your music business degree? Are you going to build
your own business? I mean, being a pianist is almost like having to have your own business

(56:19):
anyway. But what would you like to do with your degree?
So it was definitely more strictly a business degree, not really music business, but I definitely
feel...
Oh, that's right. I'm sorry. Yeah, it's a business degree.
No, no. I was going to say that I definitely feel that being a pianist is already very
entrepreneurial, be able to create your own opportunities. So ultimately, I feel that

(56:44):
the business skills I learned, and especially the sales and the marketing skills are going
to help me in their own vein, but also going to help me figure out how to contextualize
my piano playing into more broadly what I want to do.
It's funny because I feel like I'm starting to see, especially since the pandemic, a lot
of musicians are getting business certificates and that kind of thing. And so if you're listening,

(57:05):
I highly recommend because I learned a lot.
You know, honestly, I was studying during pandemic about marketing. So I read all Seth
Golden's book, Purple Cow and everything. And then also I took some free courses online,
like Coursera offers free courses, like intro classes. And also I had so many marketing

(57:30):
coaches. I don't know how much money I spent on learning about marketing.
For your studio.
For my studio and for my own sake. And then also, yeah. And then I learned a lot. And
then it really, because learning from scratch. So I went through this ups and downs of learning
curve, right? If you know what I mean. Yes. Yeah. It's completely a new territory for

(57:54):
me. And then I thought marketing, I thought of one marketing was this way, but it was
completely different. It was really about people. It was all about, you know, having
them understand what you do. And wow, boy, I was an eye opening thing.
So something else I wanted to say that you're actually, that might be interesting for our

(58:15):
listeners is that I think part of the reason that it's especially difficult is because
our art and elite artists are so perfectionist. And so what we do is we spend like three years
before performing a program for the first time. And this is the opposite to more business

(58:35):
like more business oriented fields where you just have to like learn on the go. Like there,
I mean, you can try to prepare for three years. You can try. You can try to do as much as
possible, but you're never going to get all the information. You're never going to have
all the data. You just have to adjust as you go. And that is the absolute opposite of piano

(58:56):
playing, the absolute opposite of classical music. And so that's, it's, you know, it's
so, and then sometimes when I think about it, and maybe this again will help some of
our listeners. When I think about it, sometimes I learned the most when I performed a piece
that was not that ready. You know, like I gave myself permission to fail. I gave myself

(59:17):
permission to fall flat on my face, just leave the ego out of it. Just, this is a learning
experience and nobody cares in a way. And that's kind of the attitude that you have
to, that you have to have. That's so difficult. So that's just something I want. I, yeah.
I wanted to say when you're talking about the marketing learning curve, right. But also,
yeah, you, once again, you inspired me to say this, but I feel like we practice so much

(59:40):
and perfect our artistry so much that we forget about audience. We are really constantly concerned
about our performance, right? You know, make it perfect for, to play this phrase, this
fingers, this, this tempo. Then we forget our audience. Then, you know, I ended up being
just play, bow and leave and not thinking about them, not engaging them at all. You

(01:00:06):
don't have to necessarily speak to them, but there is gotta be some sort of like a web
and flow in a relationship to your audience, no? Rather than just, right. Yeah.
Well, it reminds me of a comment my teacher made when I was, I was running through a master's
program and I remember this was actually a master class and something that the artist

(01:00:27):
said that was very insightful was that, you know, I understand, you know, you have a more,
some, sometimes more introverted interpretation, introverted approach. And I, it's some people,
they don't believe this about me, but I am very introverted. You know, like, I mean,
I can talk a lot, I can talk to people, but at the end of the day, that's just my personality.
And so one thing he said was that you need to remember that you're playing for people.

(01:00:49):
It's not about changing your interpretation, but it's just about playing for them, playing
to impact them, not just to, not just to live in your own world of ideas. And so it's, yeah,
that's something that's very relevant. I mean, if we forget about marketing and business
for a second, that's very relevant to us as, as performers, for sure.
Now we're really getting into this philosophical question. So first one, what is your thought

(01:01:13):
on keeping the classical music industry or classical music itself relevant and thriving
in this fast paced society? And then especially in this post pandemic era?
I think that house concerts are going to become a lot more relevant. They already kind of
are. I think that people are going to be less inclined to sit through the official concert

(01:01:36):
hall experience. I mean, still, if it's like, you know, especially, I mean, we're in New
York city, like there's still Lincoln center, Carnegie hall. I mean, they're still bringing
in people, but I think a lot of patrons are wanting to host people independently and they
want more intimate experiences. And two things that are going to be really necessary for
artists with that. One is the programming. Okay. So one A is programming. One B is being

(01:02:00):
able to play with people 10 feet away from you. The whole like state, I mean, the idea
of really the venue and the stage. I mean, I'm not saying it's dying. Like I'm not,
I'm saying people still go to concerts, obviously, but there are so many more house concerts
that are going on than before the pandemic. And so many more opportunities with that.
A lot of these people want you like the artist to pitch to them, to pitch the program, to

(01:02:24):
pitch, you know, everything. So that's going to be a lot more relevant. And that's going
to push a lot of artists to definitely become more entrepreneurial. It's, it's, it's also,
you know, a collaborative because you're collaborating with the presenter more closely. Like again,
a lot of this, I call it like infrastructure because it's just so like, it's just the way
you think the way you're taught to think things are supposed to be with like winning a major

(01:02:45):
competition and like just touring. Like you expect, I mean, you expect someone to, you
know, when you get to that level, just take care of that for you. But that just doesn't
always happen. But that's a great thing because that house concerts give more, you know, performance
opportunities for artists. I think, I think, I think classical music will never die. Classical

(01:03:06):
music will always be in fashion. It's classic. It's timeless. But I think that artists are
going to have to be a lot more flexible in order to reach the kind of audiences they
want.
So maybe you already answered this question, but how can we as classical musicians reach
out to the 21st century audience in a creative way?

(01:03:26):
Can I just say something funny that I was thinking about? I think so often like artists,
they don't want to cut their pieces into like 15, 30 second segments. But something that
I was thinking about is that, I mean, how long are the auditions we go through? They're
like 10 minutes and we play like five pieces. The jury is like, you know, listening, you
know, you can tell so much about someone from just 30 seconds. So I really don't understand

(01:03:49):
this like hesitancy to post just excerpts on social media. It's just kind of, I really
like what you're doing with in terms of the podcast, in terms of, you know, outside of
the piano, just accessing people. I did an interview series during the pandemic. There
was a written blog, just interviewing other pianists who did things outside of the piano.
I had a pianist who worked a lot with dancers. I had a pianist who was also a magician.

(01:04:15):
Wow. Yeah, yeah, it was really awesome. So that was cool. So I think taking ownership
of the conversation is what I think. And that is so much outside of the piano and like what
you're doing and what I'm doing. It's very important.
Well, thank you. Now, what sort of skill set is required as a pianist of the 21st century
and particularly in the, yeah, once again, post pandemic era?

(01:04:39):
The ability to spot opportunities. I think that's for anything though. I think, and I
would say more broadly, an entrepreneurial skill set is really essential. And in the
same way that every day we practice, we have to look at the text like it's new. Every day
we have, you know, our own endeavors. I mean, there's so much that's just changing in our

(01:05:02):
world and in the market that we have to be able to be flexible.
Advice for young musicians?
From a musical point of view, learn as much as possible because literally everything I
learned from before the age of 16 is like, I wish I learned more. Because we have so
much, so much to literally learn as much as possible.

(01:05:24):
From a more life standpoint, don't be afraid to study something else in college or in conservatory.
I think conservatories are doing such an amazing job of adding sort of these peripheral programs.
Like a lot of conservatories now have programs to teach musicians how to record themselves,

(01:05:47):
sort of like audio engineering programs. A lot of music schools now have these entrepreneurship
departments. Just things that are more, that really place what we're doing in the practice
room in the broader context. Don't be afraid to do that because I was, remember as an undergrad,
I was very stressed because I was really the only pianist that was doing a dual degree.

(01:06:09):
And I was very insecure about feeling, I really felt a little bit judged for that. Like I
wasn't as serious about just doing piano or like I didn't think that I would quote unquote
make it. So I was taking another degree and looking back, I'm really glad I did that.
And so I think just you have to be able, you have to be able to see what other skills you

(01:06:31):
have and how that can sort of broaden your impact as a musician. Does that make sense?
Yeah, totally.
And I, yeah, I just think that you shouldn't, like we're so hard on ourselves, especially
as pianists. And I think that the amazing thing is that if we look at ourselves as a
person, all the combination of skills that help us to play so well, if we nurture some

(01:06:58):
of those other skills, that can actually lead to a more fulfilling career in the long run,
both as a pianist and as an entrepreneur. So don't ever feel like you have to be put
in a box is kind of what I'm trying to say.
So what's your next step?
I have a lot of music to learn. I have a lot of music to learn this summer. I have a couple
actually, the very next step is I have a couple of video collaborations. I work with a couple

(01:07:24):
wonderful piano centers, one in Manhattan, one in New Jersey. So I'm just producing video
content, which obviously helps my portfolio. So I'm always preparing for that. And it's
a little bit stressful recording for me. I definitely prefer live, but we're in the digital
age. So I've been practicing a lot.

(01:07:47):
Wonderful. Miriam, this has been a fun and inspiring conversation.
Likewise. Thank you for inviting me.
Well, thank you. It was very educational too. So, but before I let you go, we have one more
thing to do. It's called the piano pause rapid fire questions. And this is a part of the
show where I get to ask questions to each guest. Now here's a little warning. As silly

(01:08:10):
as these questions may sound, your answers may reveal who you truly are. So are you ready?
I think so.
All right. So please answer them with the shortest responses as possible. No, no explanation
is needed. Question number one, what is your comfort food?
Coffee.
Well, next one, how do you like your coffee?

(01:08:30):
Black.
Oh, wow. Cats or dogs?
Cats.
What is your word or words to live by?
Make the most of today. You might. Yeah, today is all you have. Let's go.
Now what is the most important quality you look for in other people?
Authenticity.
Name three people who you who inspire you living or dead.

(01:08:52):
My parents. That's two. My piano mentor.
Now name one piece in your current playlist.
Mendelssohn Mendelssohn Scherzo.
This is the last question. So fill in the blank. Music is blank.
Fabulous.
Thank you. So this concludes this episode, the season finale of the piano part. Thank

(01:09:13):
you, Miriam, for joining my show today and sharing your stories and insights and expertise.
You can learn more about Miriam through her website at maria piano dot com and her social
media at Maria Piano. You can also find her music on YouTube. The links are listed in
the show notes. Thank you to my wonderful audience and fans for tuning in. If you enjoyed

(01:09:34):
today's episode, please rate and review it on whatever podcasting platform you use. Remember
to hit the thumbs up button and subscribe to my YouTube channel if you are watching
this episode. Follow the piano part on social media to get the latest piano news via Facebook,
Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn. I hope to see you for the next well next season of the

(01:09:55):
piano pod. Bye everyone and thank you so much, Miriam. Thank you for having me. Pleasure
to speak. Thank you.

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