March 7, 2021 • 58 mins
Mike is a pilot flying for Scottish Airline, Loganair. His journey to land his dream job has been a long and frustrating one. We hear his story of changing careers from the oil and gas industry to aviation, and the 10 year struggle he had to realise his dream to get in the cockpit full time. Mike's passion for aviation is clear and he gives us some honest insights into the challenges faced by people trying to make their way as a pilot.
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Episode Transcript
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Ben Hall (00:06):
Hello, and welcome to the pilot based podcast. I'm Ben
and I've been a pilot for over adecade,
Dave Rogers (00:11):
and I'm categorically not
Ben Hall (00:13):
a pilot. Every Monday we'll be chatting to both pilots
and non pilots with amazingaviation stories from all around
the world. You can find allepisodes of the pilot based
podcast for free wherever youget your podcasts. If you like
what you're hearing, subscribeto our channel and leave us a
review.
Dave Rogers (00:28):
In this episode, we meet Mike Burgess now Mike was a
late comer to aviation. He had agreat job, a career working
offshore, a forces background, afamily, a pretty good normal
life. But he decided that hewanted to be a pilot. unlike so
many. His journey was a long andsometimes unrequited labour of
(00:50):
love. Fast forward and now heworks for loganair and the pride
and the wall with which he talksabout being a pilot is amazing.
Future pilots potentialaviators, listen to this and
follow the dream. Everyone elsesit back and enjoy. This is Mike
Burgess. Mike Burgess, welcometo pilot base. I say welcome to
(01:15):
pilot basis very much anethereal non entity at the
moment. Because Ben's in hishouse. I'm in my house and
you're in your house. So wherein the world are you?
Mike Burgess (01:24):
In Keith, which is in buncher. So if you can
envisage Aberdeen and Invernesson the map, and pretty much
halfway between the two of themoff the main trunk road,
Dave Rogers (01:35):
a beautiful part of the world. Actually, I spent
some time there. Although I amsurprised that you get enough
signal to join us on a zoomcall. It was pretty desperate.
Mike Burgess (01:45):
And I don't say toilets now. I've just started
getting eating them and as well.
Dave Rogers (01:51):
Are you well? How's life treating you at the moment?
Mike Burgess (01:53):
Yeah, not too bad at all. Thanks. But don't aim at
the minute not really doing muchwork. But generally, yeah,
helps. Good. I'm well fed as Iam most days but
Dave Rogers (02:06):
what about you, Ben? You're looking a bit slim.
Are you eating? Well,
Ben Hall (02:09):
I'm eating Very well, thank you, I think is the
medication I'm on just theoperation. So using that to slim
down, or I think it's actuallythe complete opposite was
happening.
Dave Rogers (02:19):
I was gonna say if I if I sat on my backside
because my knee operation Iwould use that as an excuse to
eat the chocolate oranges. trymy best not to. Um, so you two
know each other from from alittle while ago. Yes. How did
you guys meet.
Mike Burgess (02:35):
So for myself.
Eventually, I took the plunge todo the pilot training. The
school I selected to use hascome in Bristol aviation. And
just so happened to ban a do usethe same company. And it was for
me it was day one day two downin South Africa, a place called
port Alfred on the Eastern Cape.
(02:57):
And that's where we werecondemned to do a train and Ben
had already been there a fewweeks. And it was in there the
loans of Dublin block in the43rd air school are offered that
we met and April 2009. So threeyears ago,
Dave Rogers (03:13):
if those walls could talk a feels like a
Ben Hall (03:16):
distant memory now.
Dave Rogers (03:19):
So one of the reasons why I'm really keen to
get to know you today, Mike isbecause your your journey has
been well what word would youuse? unorthodox?
Mike Burgess (03:31):
Yeah. Long arduous. frustrating at times
that essentially in the end,right, well, the most exciting
you know, it's the latter partof it's been very exciting. But
obviously the first part thatwas Yeah, frustrating I think
would be the the best word touse.
Ben Hall (03:50):
I think from my point of view, knowing Dave Willis to
know Michael, this time, there'sbeen a lot of persistence to get
to the point you're you'recurrently at.
Dave Rogers (04:00):
I am finding the more pilots we speak to the more
persistence is perhaps the mostimportant trait that you will
need to get into this game. Andso let's go back to life before
piloting then because piratingabsolutely wasn't your first
career was it? What did you Whatdid you do to begin with to make
Mike Burgess (04:20):
and so for me, from from quite young age, I'd
always kind of enjoyed tinkeringor baking things and then random
by the age of 14, maybe we hadall the careers and the military
careers guys come into theschool. And I was sold on the on
the RF, the Air Force. Soessentially, the earliest you
could apply was 15 years, ninemonths. From that very day. I
(04:43):
was in their careers office inAberdeen got the paperwork and
had it signed, parents have tosign in to give them the go
ahead to apply. And that was meand did all their interviewing
test in medical and from twomonths after my 16th ourselves
down doing basic training. Sothat was airframe engineering.
(05:04):
So essentially did the basictraining. And from there you
were then pushed it to whereverit may be. For me, it was a
famous dambuster squad, whichwas quite a quite a journey that
was only there for 19 monthsbefore I went back to do further
training. But I was working ontornado fast jet aircraft. So
(05:25):
the sense of the mechanicalmaintenance repair service and
of those aircraft, and, andagain, did some more training
ended up back our Air Forcemouth again, just quick local to
where I was from. And yeah,seven years at the dance floor.
And as funny as it sounds,people sitting waiting your fly
(05:45):
when you're in there in the RF.
So there was always that beingon the line flight lane, you see
an aircraft or if you see atick, or if you see him coming
in line, there's always that piein the sky thing of No, you're
not going to be a pilot one day,but there's never really a
serious consideration. And thenI came over and RDF, and I got a
flying lesson just as like aflight experience for Christmas
(06:06):
one year. And the instructor atthe time said, you know, you
you've taped to this quite well,have you ever considered doing
it. And kind of from there, itwas like it was a bit more of a
seed had been planted. But fromthat point, I didn't go straight
to the flight train. And I wentoffshore worked in on gas
industry, which is quite apopular thing to do in this neck
(06:27):
of the woods as well. And I didthat for a few years, met my
wife who took me to NorthernIreland. And when I was over in
Northern Ireland, I was projectmonitoring over there in a
company for Caterpillar who dopower generation, I got in touch
with a friend I used to work inRDF with who was down in Dublin.
And he'd actually been goingthrough the, I suppose the
(06:49):
aptitude side of it. Andcompanies are always trying to
sell you places in training andthey would look at you, you
know, to elevate along to theseaptitude tests. And so are you,
you're great, you'd be reallygood at this, by the way do you
want to place it's going to costyou X amount. So I kind of went
down that route place in Dublin.
(07:13):
And it actually turned out cut along story short, in the end,
the place in Dublin where I wentto the very first part was a
sister company of Bristolaviation, I ended up with in the
end. So from leaving school at16, and join the Air Force. It
was, what 10 years later, nineyears later before it obviously
(07:35):
took off. First step of gettinginto the aircraft and doing that
very first lesson down in SouthAfrica.
Dave Rogers (07:42):
So with that, with that first lesson, when the when
the instructor said to you,you've taken to this quite
naturally, have you ever givenit a go? I mean, I know
hindsight is a wonderful thing.
But did any part of you thinkah, I wish I'd I wish I pursued
this more when I had thoseaircraft almost at my disposal
in the RF
Mike Burgess (08:02):
100%.
Ben Hall (08:05):
Mr. Robbins
Mike Burgess (08:08):
said, an annoying thing is as well, in the forces
in the military, you've gotthese basically learning credits
that the military or thatthey're paying you to go out and
do courses. And one of thethings I did what's going to
help me in my purse, you know,when I pursued the offshore
industry was I did a datarelease course, in mechatronics
(08:29):
and Hnc. And I was paid forabout 180 percent of that and it
was paid for by the RAF Moreimportantly, I got a day off
work every week. You know, and,and looking at that, even after
I came out there for us, I thinkI had up to 10 years to use
these credits of which couldhave been used towards flight
training. And I never knew untilit was too late. You know, there
(08:54):
could have been six grand ofpilot training there over the
space of two years, which,again, looking at hindsight, you
know, could have been done, butit would have been a journey
that's been turned. And I don'tknow if the satisfaction would
have been the same if ithappened. And it
Ben Hall (09:10):
sounds like from what you've said, it wasn't like an
immediate point where it's like,right want to be a pilot, it was
kind of a gradual build up,right, working in the RFP a
little bit and then having ataste of flight and
Mike Burgess (09:21):
yeah, yeah. Your plans, like the amount of people
we've met through Korea, eventhrough the flight train, and
it's like, oh, when I was three,I've told my dad I wanted to be
a pilot and the bug it's alwaysbeen there. And it certainly
wasn't like out with me. Youknow, it's an equally I've met
people who've been similar tomyself who've come to aviation a
(09:43):
little bit later through, maybenot essentially being interested
in at the start and something'sgonna put them on. And but yeah,
that, like you say it was beingin the Air Force. It was never a
real consideration that I couldThat would be at Baylor. And I
suppose part of that was down tothe stigma attached to it being,
(10:06):
you know, it's a rich boys clubthat, you know, it's something
that without the money withoutthe investment, there's wasn't
really that many Connect shipseither where you could
essentially get paid for you.
And again, now, like I said,growing up, it's one of those
things where you think, the paidloads of money, and when you get
(10:28):
paid loads of money, it'sbecause you, you know, you're
super smart or something. Anddon't get me wrong. I'm not, you
know, the, I wouldn't say I'mthe blonde, just the pencil
case, but you know, there needsto be that element of education
as well, you know,
Dave Rogers (10:50):
and also, that level of self belief, you, you
mentioned it there, like, likethe rich boys club, it does
seem, particularly in the UK tobe that echelon of people who
are like, Well, yeah, I canabsolutely be a pilot, or I can
absolutely be a Formula Onedriver, or I don't know,
professional golfer, or any ofthese things that just seem like
normal people can't achievethem. And I think it just takes
(11:13):
some people a little bit longerto realise they can and it took
you until your mid 20s. Whereasit might take somebody else
until their 30s, or somebodyelse, as you say, might just
mention it to their parents inpassing at six years of age, I
can be a pilot, but you youarrived at that journey in your
own title or the destination inyour own time. And and when you
(11:34):
got there, there was no doubtthat it was the right thing.
Mike Burgess (11:37):
100% from from taking that first step. And like
you say, in hindsight, I wishI'd done it earlier because the
satisfaction of say, going towork works maybe the right word,
but it's not a job. You know,there's not a single day gone to
play with my big shiny toy. Andthat I feel it's a job. It's
(12:00):
nice to be paid for doing it, ofcourse. And but yeah, yeah, it's
just that realisation thatagain, it's some people's dreams
and some people get their dreamsa little bit earlier on in life.
Mankin just that little bitlater on, you know,
Dave Rogers (12:15):
do you think because of the the work you've
done in the past in the forces,and then that offshore work,
which, you know, it's it's it'swell remunerated, but it is
difficult, you do spend a lot oftime away from friends and loved
ones, do you think having thoseprevious jobs has given you a
greater appreciation of what youget to do now?
Mike Burgess (12:36):
Definitely the offshore side of it. I started
in the North Sea. So it's beentwo weeks, three weeks, I came
home for two weeks, three weeks,two animals. And then a couple
of years after doing that, Iended up in a job in there in
the Middle East. And the moneywas good. And, you know, it was
it was, it gave us a kind ofnice lifestyle, you know, we
(13:00):
don't really need to go withoutanything. But it was anywhere up
to four or five and a half weeksaway at a time. And the same
you're getting out when you gethome. But what you find is when
you're away that long. And youknow, you're earning the money
here, you're not really spendingmoney when you're away, so you
can come back and you can enjoythat that lifestyle. But when
(13:20):
you're coming back, I haven'tbeen away for four or five
weeks, it's been taking a weekor two to kind of get into the
routine of waking kids, youknow, the certain things
especially, you know, we had ouryoungest child when I was
working offshore. So I wasfortunate that I was home for
the first few weeks, but evenjust that first two weeks away
and coming back, women youmissed, and then certain changes
(13:42):
in routine, they're they'reaffecting my wife would go into
place and having to kind of goon to that. It's not just a case
of getting five weeks of home,you know that five weeks home?
There's a lot of that time thattakes you to adopt, as well. So
getting home every night, no,very occasionally you've got the
organised stays. But you knowthat essentially, it's a job
(14:03):
when I'm home every night. Andyou know, you definitely
appreciate that. You know thatside of things
Dave Rogers (14:09):
with regards to having kids? And how difficult
was it? Well, did it ever comeinto your consideration that
having that time off work andhaving to retrain and all the
money that it takes to retrainwhilst you've got the family to
feed did that ever sort of leaveany doubts as to whether you
were doing the right thing whenyou were training to be a pilot?
Mike Burgess (14:30):
Yeah. So this started the training, the way
that the programme market wassupposed to be. It was around a
six month stint in South Africa.
And the way that they saw youknow, the way that the training
can be sold out to you said thatprobably wouldn't be a chance to
get home at that time. So whereare we are we already other our
eldest at the time she wasprobably five I think. So. It
(14:52):
was a really difficultconversation. You know, I was
given up work saw the car wifewas going to be at home with a
child and her own she was anurse. So it's not like she had
a and I fly in high income jobeither. So that that decision
was taken. And it was onlybecause of the support of my
(15:12):
wife that that the decision wasmade to go extreme short, any
kind of hesitation that shedidn't think it was a good idea
or that she didn't. And Iwouldn't say core because well,
Ben knows that she's a prettystrong lady. And she doesn't
make it to wouldn't need me tobe there if she didn't think
that. You know, but yeah,definitely it was it was
(15:35):
definitely a consideration. ButI'll tell you a lot of the
people that we met in SouthAfrica I can't even think of any
offhand of the any of any ofthose podcasts. A lot of them
are young, single men, guys,girls, wherever. And there was a
massive adventure for them. Andwhile it was also a massive
(15:55):
adventure, for me, there wasalways that worry about, you
know, is everything already athome, and we had regular
contact, it was difficult,especially down there, stocks,
the internet was awful. Sotrying to keep in touch on on a
daily basis trying to do theSkype call and or, and, you
know, it was quite hard going.
(16:17):
But yeah, there was definitelythat consideration there. Doing
the right thing or, and again,it was looking at the longer
picture. You know, it wasessentially six, nine months to
set up for, you know, what wasahead of us from now.
Ben Hall (16:33):
It's quite funny, actually. Because in South
Africa, the expats, so there's afew British and Irish guys that
are going down through thiscourse. And they tended to be I
mean, it was only probably fiveyears older, on average than the
South Africans. But that age gapmade such a difference. So vast
majority of the South Africanlocals have come straight out of
(16:53):
high school, so they were 1819years old. Whereas we were when
I was early 20s. Mike was how wemight 27 at the time.
Mike Burgess (17:05):
I'm 26. Yeah.
Yeah.
Ben Hall (17:07):
So I mean, we weren't old by any means. But just that
little age gap meant we had verydifferent mindsets about how we
got on down there.
Mike Burgess (17:18):
Yeah.
Dave Rogers (17:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
And so you got through flightschool. And surely then it's all
plain sailing, you get a job,you become a pilot. The rest is
history. Yep, that's exactly howit worked.
Mike Burgess (17:35):
For some, for some of us. For some, for some,
Dave Rogers (17:41):
I half knew the answer to that question. And so
expectation versus reality, thenyou passed with literally flying
colours. What then?
Mike Burgess (17:53):
Yeah. Expectation versus reality, chalk and
cheese. You know, the way Isuppose the industry was, I
think it was on its own by thenas well. So it wasn't like there
wasn't really recruitment goingon. And I was I've been in a
position where I've beensearching for jobs before but
I've never been in a positionwhere I've not had a job and
(18:14):
been searching you know, so whenI transitioned from the Air
Force, the offshore offshore wasbooming. I applied for jobs I
got I left a job went into jobthis was very different you
know, I was and I think thepressure was on you know, the
the desperation was there. But Iwas just I was just engulfed in
spending, you know, hours andhours trawling the internet
(18:36):
trolling different sites, andsending emails sending see these
and, and you get to that pointof frustration, where you don't
even get an acknowledgment. Ifyou get an acknowledgement you
don't get Thanks, but no thanks.
And then the first year, Isuppose the first year was my
bar. The year when I got thejob. Nine years later, the first
(18:57):
year was probably moresuccessful, because I got an
interview with Cathay Pacificand in London, which would have
been based in Hong Kong. Soagain, that was going to be our
epic offer, there was going tobe a very difficult
conversation, which obviouslywe'd already had, but without
the reality of maybe somethinghappening. And I also got
assessments and interview stagewith them. There was like a pre
(19:21):
interview and then an assessmentstage with Lufthansa and but it
was the Lufthansa Italia and saythe things and I don't know what
they're looking for. Andastronauts I think that their
their assessment and again,they're looking for the cream of
(19:42):
the crop so you can obviouslypass these tests but for me,
that was very much a case of youknow, they want a 1% or 2% of
the crop and for me that wasn'tyou know, wasn't the case. It
fly in They kind of opted to tofly in. I worked hard to, to, to
master it to pass and, you know,first series process, some
(20:07):
people get in a plane and it'sabsolutely natural to them,
they, you know, everything isdone exactly as it should be
when it should be. But thatwasn't the case for me. So
something somewhere likeLufthansa, although it was nice
to get the, you know, the, theassessment, there was an element
of realisation that, yeah, itwas, it was a good experience,
but the expectation of gettingsomething was probably not
(20:30):
there. And then it all goesquiet, you know, so your, your
Phantom CV to try and keep, youknow, you're looking at all
these websites, and one of themwas one called paper in, and
it's just full of so muchnegativity that you can have to
take yourself away from it. Butagain, it's also quite a good
port of knowledge for picking upon if jobs have come up that you
(20:52):
haven't seen or things likethat. One of the good things
that did come as well wascompany in Belfast, and best at
the old Grove and the Belfastinternational doing many
flights, many of our flights,and the aircraft that they use.
So without going into too muchdetail you've got you've got
aircraft that are authorised forsingle pilot operations.
(21:18):
However, because it was manymedevac flights to give the
patients and you know, people inthe back a little bit of kind of
reassurance and confidence, theywould use qualified pilots, but
not necessarily legally rated tofly those aircraft. And it's all
legal and aboveboard, and theycall them pilots assistants. So
(21:38):
I had like a multi engine pistonrating. And it was a multi
engine piston aircraft that Iwas a pilot's assistant in. And
so I was there. And if theproverbial I'd had the fun, I
would have been capable enoughof landing the aircraft. And
with about gains, however, youknow, on paper, it wasn't
illegal. That's not the rightword. But it wasn't. I couldn't
(22:02):
afford that aircraft on my ownbike, there's insistence on I
got that work with them. It wasand it was done paired it was on
our call basis. Sometimes I geta call seven, eight at night
saying can you come in at fivein the morning, we've got
flights Oxford. And so it wasreally good. Now the downside of
eyes, under their certain rulesof car at the time was I
couldn't log any of thoseflights. So what we was doing
(22:26):
was well above board, but Icouldn't put it down on paper
and as actual experience. Soalthough I can include on the
CV, how about experience as apilot's assistant. In the
logbook, you can actually putthose hours don't so it was good
experience. good fun. And butyou know, it didn't really lead
(22:47):
to anything. And I don't thinkthat it played a part in really,
because it was so long ago, Idon't think it played any part
in me getting the job loganairIn the end, but again, I put it
down to experience good fun. Youknow,
Ben Hall (23:04):
just a day's benefit with this. So you come out of
flying school, right? You've gotyour shiny new licence. But
everything's got validity dates.
So certain things run out in sixmonths, certain things around 12
months, some things run outafter five years. So you've
really got to be with the jobhunt, especially you come out,
you start searching for jobs.
And at the beginning, it's fine,because your licence is nice and
(23:26):
fresh. But then after a fewmonths, you start thinking,
right, I'm going to be in a bitof trouble here. Because if I
don't get a job in the next Xamount of time, then I'm gonna
have to stop paying myself tokeep everything current. And
Mike, I think you ended upeventually doing that for 10
years, didn't you?
Mike Burgess (23:45):
Yeah, well, nine years, qualified June, June
2010, was my officialqualification day, I got my
licence issued Three weeks laterthan in July. And then I started
logging out on the first of July2019. So it was essentially a
month shorter nine years, fromgetting the licence in my hand
(24:06):
to then start in a job where Iwas being paid to be a pilot.
Dave Rogers (24:09):
Wow. I mean, it would be remiss of us here, Ben.
Whilst we're talking aboutwebsites, not to mention pilot
base.com, but we'll just we'llvery good plug Dave, I thought
you weren't very good at thebusiness stuff. We'll just leave
that in the ether. And if peoplewho are listening decide to go
on to whatever browser they use,and type in pilot based.com then
(24:33):
I think that'd be that'd be agreat thing to do. Nine years is
a long time and we'll talk aboutwhat's happened since you've got
the loganair job shortly. But inthat nine years, what did you do
to sort of keep the lights on?
And did you ever think gosh, youknow what, the piloting it's
something that I dreamed of, butI'm just gonna have to put it in
(24:54):
a box and and think about adifferent career.
Mike Burgess (24:59):
Yeah. So just to start with a lot of point not
not happens several times, and,you know, you look at the, the,
there's a yearly cost againstkeeping legal, legal and current
has completely different legalas you got paper, that paper
that says you can, you canessentially fly an aircraft
current is flying as much as youcan to keep a hand eye
(25:22):
coordination. So, naturally Forme it was a case of under the
rules of like cost sharing, forexample, My plan was to, and I
did, I joined the local flyingclub in new Norge. And, you
know, you get a couple of monthsof well get a flight a month to
(25:45):
keep up with so a flying clubgot legal, you know, the rules
along with that insurance aswell. So you need to fly a
certain attain a certain amountof times per month or purse
extra days to keep theirinsurance and if you don't
you're then typify with aninstructor, and if you do is
more expensive. So you're alwaystrying to stop days to make sure
that you get an insider's toureach year, as Ben was saying,
(26:08):
you've got to then go back anddo a proficiency check. And the
way that works with your multiengine. So you've got like to
essentially get global airlinesneed a multi engine instrument
rain. And then some rain has tobe read on every year to the
first year, you can do it in thesimulator, the second year has
to be done the aircraft and thenyou can alternate from there. So
(26:28):
it does make a little bitcheaper that first year because
it's far cheaper to fly in asimulator than it is the actual
aircraft. So the first year Iwent back to Bristol. And
towards the end of the secondyear, and again, it was getting
to the point where you'restarting to lose about fears and
about hope. And there's a friendof mine who we've met through
(26:50):
Bristol aviation, he was using acompany in Spain. And it was
like, well, and then peoplesaid, Well, why do you go to
Spain? Why not do in the UK. Soit's all the same licence, it's
all the same regular, whoever,whether it's bit more guaranteed
to essentially go in there. Andcheaper. And you know, between
the cost of fuel the, theaircraft there. And, and yeah,
(27:12):
and it's also a waste notlisten, it's also a chance to
get away with a watch for theweekend
to somewhere, somewhere likeMadrid or Bristol. But even when
they even when they travel, youknow, it was cheaper going to
Madrid than it was somewherelike Bristol or so the first two
years, it was everything wasdone, you know, I'm on this I'm
(27:36):
going to do. And at the end ofthe second year, I think was
probably the first Teddy's overcall, you know, it's not
uncommon for me, I'm giving upyou know, and I'm willing to do
a good job marking off Sure. Andthen give money take thing you
know, so I let you know whybother type thing like you see,
(27:56):
you get to that point where youknow, it's not, it's not. It's
not It's not that. And then atsome point, you get that bug
again. And the the part of thelicence that let lunch was
purely just for the better, Ineed a tech to get commercial
flying job, I could still flythe Cessna, you know the single
(28:17):
engine for pleasure, becauseit's the validity of that
specific rating is two yearsinstead of one year. So the idea
was to still continue to not Ithought I'd then come to keep it
going as just an expensivehobby, rather not a long term
kind of career thing. So thatwas the kind of main set out
(28:39):
there. And then again, somethinghappened, you know, I had a
friend and Eastern airways whosaid Grable, Eastern areas is
recruiting they're an Aberdeen.
Give them a show. So I did, Igave you some areas to show.
Yeah, we'll get you in for aninterview. Can you come this
time? And I'm saying Well, I'moffshore, but I'm flexible that
(29:00):
states and it goes from that towell, we were almost squeezing
into a slot that been cancelledas a favour to this guy that I
knew. And it's just like,really, you know, it isn't
really that hard to get in anindustry that's on the pickup
Ben Hall (29:18):
by No You mean I I've been to loads of airline
interviews in my life and someof them you just get a better
feeling than others that youwould fit in with the company
ethos and the you know, just thejust the way everything feels
you can have the exact sameinterview but you just feel more
comfortable and more at home inone than the other.
Mike Burgess (29:36):
I definitely not be aware of Yeah, I'll
definitely be aware ofdescribing them. They're just
just general atmosphere youknow, you got you got easily
pleased we've got some images.
That's where I was. I was toldif we get sandwiches over sold,
you know, but again, Logan outhas got a lot of ex RAF guys as
(29:57):
well in the engineering side.
And, and actually over 30minutes we were chatting,
probably 1015 minutes of my 30minute say interview char was
talking about my time in the RAFand being offshore and the HR
director was, I think he saidthat they talked to Don de the
base of Dundee for organelles,they talked about being rfmd.
(30:20):
Because 90% of the, the theengineers for loganair were all
extra off guys. So they knowwhat they're getting, you know,
generally, military in general,are guys who understand and
respect authority, but they'vealso got that confidence to
speak up where things maybearen't correct, they've got the
(30:41):
discipline to turn into workevery day on time, their plan,
and their preparation is alwaysI say always, generally, most of
time. They know and again, so.
And I think, though and don't myrough experience, although it
wasn't flying. And just the factI'd been in the army have played
a big part, you know, there wasdefinitely not definitely give a
(31:03):
positive spin. And to therecruiters and getting, you
know, and taking them out daily,
Dave Rogers (31:10):
the way you've spoken about loganair. It sounds
like you've got a greataffection for them. With all the
the sort of places you'vevisited in the near misses
you've had in the mistakesyou've made. Does it feel like
loganair is a great fit, andprobably even the best fit for
you as a pilot as aprofessional. Yeah.
Mike Burgess (31:34):
without going into too much detail recently,
there's been certain things thatmaybe could have done better.
But that's that's justcircumstance of what's going on
and what we end the day, whenthese times and nobody could
have planned. There's no manualon how to deal with it. So that
that's kind of things that canbe forgiven, depending on how
(31:57):
things go forward. 100% from theday I joined the company. And
first of July last year, we werein Glasgow, there are certain
things that we did before westarted our actual tape course.
And we were in the office. So Ithink we're getting remember it
well, we were still getting ahigh vis vest for Knox. And to
(32:18):
do fire and smoke training andAberdeen and the the MD Jonathan
henckels walked through theoffice, what passes and stopped
and turned around and it must bethe new intake of Embraer guys,
any any Stickney supporters, andhe introduced himself, you asked
who we were, what experience wehad. And he says, and as it
(32:38):
happens, he says, then there's ameeting room next door, I'm just
going on with them, their crewmanager to speak about our kind
of forward plans, he says,You're more than welcome to come
in second, and listen to whatthe company is planning the
future. And for me to come froma big multi national service
company and gas industry wheremy own country manager didn't
(33:00):
even know my name. you'd walkpast me in the office and didn't
acknowledge me to have like theMD of the company to spend that
time and not only introducehimself, but ask about OHS
invite us into a meeting. It wasjust a way off. And from that
day, it felt like everything wasjust the way it should have
been. The Nine years, the CathayPacific they are Lingus that
(33:25):
Ryanair was always like thathappen, because this was common.
And that's all prepared. Itsounds so cliche saying that
ever happens for a reason. Butfor me that really was there.
perfect plan, you know, we werehosting Keith, that we didn't
need to move from. There was nobrainer the family and it was
really their dream job wascommon. It was starting on a jet
(33:47):
as well, which is the dream ofWell, I think most pilots would
say it's like a guest star onany kind of jet. It's, it's the
United States dream of a firstjob. So yeah, it's very much an
affection I've got with acompany. It's Scotland's
airline. And I love wearing atie and tie every day. And
(34:07):
there's, there's there's some ofthe ones and some of the English
ones especially reluctantly werethey tight and tight because
they have to do some of thatperhaps they love it as much as
they think it's part of theirrecognition of walking through
and we don't go into bigairports. it's it's it's not
(34:28):
such a big thing but goingthrough like sobre de and you've
got you've got Ryanair, you'vegot Lufthansa, you've got
EasyJet you've got BritishAirways, but you instantly
recognise the loganair brand.
You've got the tire and tie butthe tire and tail on the
aircraft. And it does it it kindof it makes me a bit fuzzy
knowing that I'm you know,flying for them and hopefully
will be for you know, for yearsto come. Yeah, but yeah, it was
(34:49):
definitely an infection there.
Yeah,
Dave Rogers (34:54):
I love it and just hearing you talk about all of
the other things that kind ofled to this point. with anything
that you do, whether it'sweather, whether it's being a
pilot, or, or anything, you justwant to be able to seize that
one opportunity, you just wantto be in a position to take it
when it presents itself. Andmaybe if you hadn't have had all
(35:15):
those other experiences and allof those other near misses, then
you wouldn't have been able tograb them, grab this for
Medicaid. Oh, yeah,
Mike Burgess (35:23):
100%, we'll just go back to the lenders thing,
one of the guys, I did theassessment with the young guy,
he'd been fresh out of training.
And he eventually it was quite afew months down the lane. So it
was fair planning from makingthe decision. But he'd got start
with another airline, andanother regional airline, and
Aer Lingus came and says, Hey,you know, we want you while you
(35:44):
start with us. So, if I've beenin the same position as him, and
accepted our Lingus, if I'dgone, he he was three weeks and
as take Britain, and then hehasn't flown since February, in
a certain way, and he's stillemployed and 15% salary in a big
airline, but he doesn't know ifhe's getting taken back on or if
(36:06):
he's laid off, you know, so. Andagain, it's one of those things
that everything happens for areason, although the flying has
been vastly reduced. for evenlonger now, we've kept going and
throw the whole, you know,seven, eight months of the, you
know, the crisis pandemic,whichever overly used word at
(36:27):
the minute, if you want to usebut yes, we've, we've managed to
keep going. And, as I said, acompany I've done, I believe,
especially in the early parts ofit. And I've done very well to
kind of keep everybody as muchas they could in jobs and
current flying as much as hecan. You know, so
Dave Rogers (36:51):
I'm very aware that we've been speaking for a long
time here. So I reallyappreciate your time, and I
won't keep you for too muchlonger. But because of the
affection that you've you'vetalked about both the company
that you work for and flyingitself, not necessarily the
process, but just try and giveme a description of the of the
feelings of the emotions you geton a day where you're going to
(37:14):
fly. So from arriving at theairport, walking through in your
tartan tie sitting on the tarmacin the cockpit and actually
taking off and, and the processof flying itself. How do you
feel on a work day on a flightday,
Mike Burgess (37:29):
it's a mix of excitement and nerves. And I
think the nerves at the minuteis is primarily because you're
not flying so often. So I'mstill very, very early in my
flying career in terms of notonly time in months, but time as
in hours flying. And, you know,for me, I had measured even with
(37:50):
logon hours on a train and Itook two attempts to do what
they call best trim. And just Icouldn't quite muster the London
technique, which apparently isquite important. And then
Dave Rogers (38:08):
I just think if for anybody for anybody who flies
loganair when you're when you'relistening to this if and if a
voice comes over the Tannoysystem and it's like a your
pilot today is Mike Burgess,just strap in ready.
Mike Burgess (38:24):
If you've got it, you've got to stick it under
yourself to soften the blow. Butit just shows you and again,
just going off topic and it justshows, you know, the reason I've
got that affection for loggingout because they never made a
point of saying you're underpressure to pass What are you
going to do in your ear. Inother words, we will work with
you I got a bit of extra time inAssam. And you know so. So going
(38:48):
through that. And so that'swhere the nerves come from is
that and making sure you know Ijust want to be I want to get
away from that there was a bitof a kind of stigma for myself
think that people are gonnathink I'm two times maybe
because two times in my basetrain I took a second attempt in
my lane check as a minor issuethe very end of the at the end
(39:09):
of the flight. But again, thesecond time I did it, everything
was on point where it shouldhave been since then the
progression and the same checksof a two cent checks or a two
lane checks and they've all beensigned off as being at least
company standard or better. Eventhe last one being in the very
good range for me. And I can seethat progression, but the
(39:31):
element of nose because of thelack of fly and I still want to
make sure that everything is asit should be in perfect. The
excitement air you know, everyday I'm going to work is really
exciting, you know, previousjobs I would have I would have
given it my best. But if Istarted working six I'd have
(39:54):
been there at five to six when Iwas no it's like on a you You
have to kind of weigh in thelegalities of time, you know,
duty time, so you can't arrivetoo early. But for me, it's, I'm
going to be in there, and mypaperwork is going to be done so
that everything I can focus ongetting settled correctly, you
know, we can do our briefingbefore we go to the aircraft.
(40:15):
And I've got enough time thatI'm not rushing, so everything's
done as it should be. But eventhough the only reports that we
had we had reports were to be,um, right on the cusp of our
report time of 60 minutes. Andso on an earlier report, I
believe in the house at half,four in the morning, began up a
quarter to four. And the alarmgoes off, and welcome in the
(40:37):
shower and think, well, I'mgoing to fly a plane, you know,
and it's that statement everyday that I go to work. So, you
go work, you printed yourpaperwork, you can have a look.
And, and there's always anelement of your hope the
weather's nice, but sometimesthat you get that hope of hope
there's a little bit of kind ofchoppiness today, because it's
(40:58):
going to, you know, it kind ofalmost puts in the
Dave Rogers (41:03):
ads a bit spicier, I guess the challenge remains
that you've got the skills
Mike Burgess (41:09):
Yeah, because loganair really do encourage a
lot more manual hand flying, youknow, that you're actually going
to get feel the aircraft and andyou know, the the excitement of
actually flying an aircraft asopposed to these kind of big
fancy jumbo jets where you justpress buttons all the way.
Dave Rogers (41:28):
Yeah, like these, like these a 380s. He's lazy.
Guys don't play Yeah.
Ben Hall (41:35):
We all know the aircraft can fly better than
weekend.
Mike Burgess (41:39):
But, yeah, so the thing, I find the money and, and
I still, even even as recent asmy last flight, when you're
sitting on the end of therunway, that's the first time
you really get to control thecaptain, and does all the
taoxian. You know, I started theengines, I think, I don't know
if that's a common thing for allairlines, but it's their first
(42:01):
officer who starts the engines.
And then the captain, you doyour checks, he talks to the end
of the runway. And if it's myflying sector, the words you
have control, it just gives youthat kind of boost from feeling
you know, the hairs in the backof that neck stand on end. And
it's when you've got the thrustflavours in your hand and you
(42:24):
advance and forward, you canfeel it spooling up. And then
again, I don't know if Ben feelsthis because it's so big, it's
like a, it's like a slow, slowcrawl to start with. In the in
the smaller aircraft, we've gottwo variants, we've got the 135,
which is a 37 seater. So it'sgood but shorter than the one
four or five, but it's got thesame engines. So when you have
only one free fight, especiallyat the minute with the loads
(42:47):
that we are getting, you know,you you're getting less than
half aircraft, so you can feelthat that power binding and
you've got that thrust banger,and like a rocket ship, isn't it
when it's hot? It is Yeah, youcan, you can be claiming it's
six, six and a half 1000 feetper minute. And in the 135, and
it's empty. And that's doing itwithout any kind of struggle,
(43:07):
you know, you're maintaining allyour parameters that you need to
be and you're just not, youknow, it's not exciting. It's
still exciting for me. And Iknow, as I said, I'm still very,
very early in my flying career,and you fly with the odd Captain
who's been fine 1015 years andthen well, you know, I can't
wait to retire. And I reallyought I never get to that point.
(43:30):
Because for me, regardless ofwhere you are in your career,
you know, you're flying anaircraft you're getting paid to
do what most people would onlyever dream of doing without
being paid for it, you know, soit's it's a, it's just, I still
get that kind of, and I get Iget excited when I'm talking
(43:50):
about as well you know, I don'tknow, when you're when you're
kind of talking to people andthis is so cool. And you know,
it's same it's the same as beingvegan, you know, there's a pilot
in the room because he's gonnatell you and I have I have
absolutely no qualms about that.
You know, I'm so proud of thethings you asked about the fact
(44:13):
that I'm a payer and andsometimes that can talk about I
think, I hope I'm not comingacross as bullish in Oregon
because it's not I don't see itas being I never looked down on
other people's in positions orwhat they do. But I'm very proud
of the fact that you know, I'm apilot the journey it's taken me
to get here.
Ben Hall (44:33):
Stop wearing a uniform to different parties. I
Mike Burgess (44:39):
stopped wearing them at school, and I'm sure
you're wearing the you know,they're often a gentleman
turning up in order.
Ben Hall (44:50):
Is the hat really necessary? Good news.
Mike Burgess (44:54):
But it is sometimes not especially the
minute I'm not flying. I've beendoing and project going on. And
I'm in my uniform, and I don'thate it. You know, I'm in Norway
now. Probably more so nowbecause it's cold. Yes, I've got
the jacket over the top, but Ido. I do draw shorts wearing the
(45:15):
blazer, you know, I don't knowthe full blazer. I wear the kind
of shirt and tie and theaccolades, but a lot, especially
over the corner here. So we havea jacket over the top, but and
yeah, it was in the summermonths. It was like, No, I'm
proud of this. I'm going toschool gets with the show. Good
man.
Ben Hall (45:34):
Do you have time to talk about project? Man briefly?
Mike Burgess (45:36):
Yeah, yeah, of course. You know, there's
there's no, there's no rush.
Yeah.
Ben Hall (45:41):
So just just for Dave's benefit project, would
Dave Rogers (45:44):
you say just for Dave's benefit, I'd like to hope
that there are some peoplelistening to this podcast who
also don't have a Scooby whatproject wingman is?
Ben Hall (45:54):
project wingman is an excellent initiative set up at
the beginning of Corona viruspandemic, by some airline
pilots. Right. Is that right?
Mike?
Mike Burgess (46:06):
I don't know if you if you've ever seen the
EasyJet programme. I can'tremember what it was called. But
basically covered the I think itcovered the kind of transition
of some of the cadet pilotsthrough their base chain and
interline training and beyond.
And there was a particularCaptain Captain Mr. Henderson,
and who was one of the maincharacters, but obviously, you
(46:30):
know, there are COVID and whatshe was doing as a job. And
between her and another Captainfrom VA, when the pandemic cat
in the scene, there's all thesecabin crew pilots who got
furloughed, even laid offcertainly, as you know, back in
the early stages, and who, andthe way that she puts it, it's a
(46:54):
specific skill of dealing withthe public, you know, the
empathy, the professionalism.
And what they be initially setout to do was just set up a
couple of lounges, and a coupleof the most busiest London
hospitals because she was basedin Gatwick and I assume other
(47:14):
companies based in Heathrow. Andit started off as we wanted to
sell a couple of these loungeswhere they would serve all the
NHS staff on our breaks, tea andcoffee, a few snacks that they
would hope to be donated. And,and yet, it essentially just
give the staff somewhere to goand kind of, you know, just
(47:37):
relax and wind down a little bitbetween their breaks and even
just to talk about somethingother than the hardest I've ever
seen and not in the hospitalswith these guys. And you know,
with all these patients andpeople coming in who has been
over dying, and so on. And fromtheir word got around. So there
(47:58):
was parts of the the trust todaywith MSA and well we've got
hospital here. Would you like tocome here? Where do they come
here? Of course, other trustsfind out Would you like to come
here? and Emma is actually livesin comox, which is where the
flying club is. And her husbandis? I think he's ex Air Force
but back working as a civilianin the in the base
Ben Hall (48:20):
that don't tell us too much about
Mike Burgess (48:23):
Oh, okay, so Emma will tell you all about herself
on other episodes. She has doneso they also project itself and
where I get involved is it bestto explore to threaten the UK.
So there's from start, no,there's been over 80 of closures
(48:44):
have opened, some of them haveno shot because things come down
and certain hospitals neededeither spare spark or didn't
feel it was a necessity anymore.
And so originally, and becauseof where I live, I'm pretty much
slap bang in the middle ofAberdeen and Vanessa and I put
on the website that I wasinterested in, I'd be happy to
(49:04):
travel to Aberdeen on anoccasion to volunteer in there.
And so unexpectedly when whenDr. Grace came up, which is an
elegant it's only 20 minutesalong the road. Obviously I you
know, I got straight and theyyou know, I was furloughed from
basically the 23rd of March Ithink I flew my last flight up
(49:25):
until and then they started mada few flights in May but not
very many. So even though I wasback, doing a lot of our flying
I still felt there was plenty oftime to go and volunteer a few
days a week. And Elgon and itwas that the reception of it was
just it was amazing. You knowthat the staff would come in and
say you know, we don't feel wedeserve this. And especially in
(49:47):
Oregon, where it was a designatewhat they were saying I think
they use the term designatedclean. So if they got somebody
that was already positivecomments Elgon, they would
basically push the motel but inInverness, because we're trying
to maintain Elgon as a as a kindof more local hospital for
emergencies to maintain thatservice. So some of the stuff in
(50:11):
there was really quiet, we don'tdeserve this, you know, we're
coming in here. And it was greatbecause they, they would come
in, and they would ask aboutyour work and what you did, and
they were interested in findingout more about you. And for me
personally, and I got myself ina bit of a rut, you know, I was
(50:31):
I had no purpose, I had nothingagainst foreign Warren. And that
seems quite extreme, because,you know, Becky, and the kids,
it was hard homeschooling. Andit was really quite a change for
me, because I would go home andeven shower, you know, setting
(50:52):
the school phone, get the kidssorted with schoolwork, and then
it almost be left up to the toour eldest daughters and attain
the youngest one. And I will besitting glued to the TV,
obsessed with numbers. And I'llget a death rate today. And you
know, watching their updates inthe news and on the phone, and
I'm quite bad my phone anyway.
(51:14):
But I'm just just constantlyglued to my phone. And my wife's
a nurse. So because of the kindof line of work she was in, she
was getting into occupationalhealth work and all that was
removed. So she continued withsome of the agencies that she
was on. And she was workingnight shift. So at night, I'll
be sitting watching TV, on thephone, looking at all the
(51:39):
numbers and facts and figuresand all the conspiracy theories
and, and, of course, a god bed.
Wherever attained midnight,half, one, whatever time I can
either walk off from doors andon the sofa, I decided that I
don't enough of walking inorder. And then kind of wake up
when the wave came in, in themorning. And we'd see each other
for maybe an hour associate,obviously, and spend time with
(52:02):
kids and go to bed. And just belike, I'm just going home every
day. So So when project wingmangot going, you know, I flew
myself until I was in two orthree days a week for shifts.
And it was an element of beingselfish here. Because obviously,
Vicky was working, she wasworking a lot on night shift.
(52:24):
And she was driving long hours.
And then I was essentially, oureldest said, Well, she just
turned 16. So we knew that wecould kind of leave them in the
house themselves, what Vickiwould be upset if sleeping, but
we knew that there was anelement of they could kind of
entertain themselves. But again,it's been a lot of
responsibility on the shouldersof her eldest daughter, which,
(52:46):
you know, she did to be fair,she took like a champ, you know,
she was really good. And helpedeach other out and so on. So,
yeah, so in one respect, Ireally did feel the benefit of
it. And as it went on, I canreduce the days a little bit.
And I tried to kind of coincideand saw that I wasn't taking
time away from the kids. Soyeah, it's been a massive thing.
(53:11):
And I've continued on, and we'vereduced days a little bit
because ofas the hospital gets back to a
little bit of normality there,there's less people coming in,
because they're busier, doingthe kind of normal day job and
thing and donations fromcompanies that I wouldn't say
they've dried up, because we'vestill got enough to get to keep
(53:32):
us going. And but again, as ourpeople get back to work as on,
some of volunteers are back towork, some of them have lost
jobs, gain jobs in othersectors, you know, so they can't
volunteer anymore. But, and butit's still going and
independent. Obviously, I'm sureEmma's going to cover this as
well. But just to kind of getout there as well, what what
wingman is doing name is theself wingman wheels foundation.
(53:56):
And what are is basicallythey're the initiative to find a
double decker bus, it's beingmade out inside. And then I'm a
big canopy that opens up on theside with fencing that goes
around and what we're going todo is we're going to drive the
length and breadth of the UK andthe planners at the minute
(54:18):
they've got a year. And they'reaiming to raise enough money to
keep them going for at least afull year, which includes the
initial purchase and for thisbus. And what they'll do is each
area, they're going to call upontheir volunteers from our area
to see if they can cover a kindof two or three day period and
(54:38):
do what I call these pop uplunges. You know so so from
starting off as our and athought process of and again, I
am going to more detail but Ihave a few loans in London, it's
gone from that to over five anda half 1000 volunteers that
they've got available on theirdatabase scattered soon. All of
you And including direct mail.
(55:01):
And you know, there's a loansbeing sent out there this week
as we speak. And Estonia hasbeen set up, you know, so it's,
it's very much a response toCOVID, but in the hope that it
will be a long term thing. Andto, to, you know, to, to kind of
show the appreciation to the NHSwhat they do all year, and not
(55:24):
just not just through COVID. Andobviously, it's been in response
to COVID. But they're, I thinkthey're very much the long term
plan as to how it will be anongoing thing.
Dave Rogers (55:34):
People helping people, it's a beautiful thing.
Mike Burgess (55:37):
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what it is. Yeah.
Dave Rogers (55:42):
It's, you know, I feel as though if we were if we
were going to continue thisconversation, I wonder if this
kind of side of you where you'verealised that you've got help
from it, but also had a greatamount from helping people. I
wonder why that's one of thereasons why you want to be an
airline pilot, because that isthat the sort of helping people
get to where they need to be andall of that, but that is a deep
(56:04):
psychological dive. So I'm goingto put a pin in that right now.
Mike Burgess (56:08):
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
It's definitely Yeah, it is adefinite kind of connecting
people with other people. Ithink the main aspect of it has,
and I think the biggest loss ifthe the way that things go, you
know, if it was to endprematurely, and I think the who
would feel the biggest losses asrecommend weights, because I
(56:32):
don't have that uniform to wearanymore.
Dave Rogers (56:39):
Oh, my goodness me.
Right. I think that is a greatplace to end this episode of the
pilot based podcast. Mike, thankyou so much for that. It's been
great to well not just find outabout your story, but sort of
get exactly how much you lovebeing a pilot and how much it
(57:02):
means to you. It's it's great tohear and I really hope that
comes across to the listenerswhen they listen to it because
it's a hell of a story, mate.
Thank you for sharing it withus.
Mike Burgess (57:12):
Now, thanks very much. It's been it's been a
pleasure. I enjoy talking aboutit. And then when I talk about
it, so hopefully, that's comeacross as well. Good, man. Thank
you. pleasure
Ben Hall (57:22):
as always. Thanks for listening to the pilot eyes
podcast. We'll be back next weekwith another great guest from
the aviation industry. Don'tforget to check out our new
career platform at pilot a.comand all the socials at pilot
base HQ. If you enjoyed thispodcast Don't forget to
subscribe and rice review
Hello, and welcome to the pilot based podcast. I'm Ben
and I've been a pilot for over adecade,
Dave Rogers (00:11):
and I'm categorically not
Ben Hall (00:13):
a pilot. Every Monday we'll be chatting to both pilots
and non pilots with amazingaviation stories from all around
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Dave Rogers (00:28):
In this episode, we meet Mike Burgess now Mike was a
late comer to aviation. He had agreat job, a career working
offshore, a forces background, afamily, a pretty good normal
life. But he decided that hewanted to be a pilot. unlike so
many. His journey was a long andsometimes unrequited labour of
(00:50):
love. Fast forward and now heworks for loganair and the pride
and the wall with which he talksabout being a pilot is amazing.
Future pilots potentialaviators, listen to this and
follow the dream. Everyone elsesit back and enjoy. This is Mike
Burgess. Mike Burgess, welcometo pilot base. I say welcome to
(01:15):
pilot basis very much anethereal non entity at the
moment. Because Ben's in hishouse. I'm in my house and
you're in your house. So wherein the world are you?
Mike Burgess (01:24):
In Keith, which is in buncher. So if you can
envisage Aberdeen and Invernesson the map, and pretty much
halfway between the two of themoff the main trunk road,
Dave Rogers (01:35):
a beautiful part of the world. Actually, I spent
some time there. Although I amsurprised that you get enough
signal to join us on a zoomcall. It was pretty desperate.
Mike Burgess (01:45):
And I don't say toilets now. I've just started
getting eating them and as well.
Dave Rogers (01:51):
Are you well? How's life treating you at the moment?
Mike Burgess (01:53):
Yeah, not too bad at all. Thanks. But don't aim at
the minute not really doing muchwork. But generally, yeah,
helps. Good. I'm well fed as Iam most days but
Dave Rogers (02:06):
what about you, Ben? You're looking a bit slim.
Are you eating? Well,
Ben Hall (02:09):
I'm eating Very well, thank you, I think is the
medication I'm on just theoperation. So using that to slim
down, or I think it's actuallythe complete opposite was
happening.
Dave Rogers (02:19):
I was gonna say if I if I sat on my backside
because my knee operation Iwould use that as an excuse to
eat the chocolate oranges. trymy best not to. Um, so you two
know each other from from alittle while ago. Yes. How did
you guys meet.
Mike Burgess (02:35):
So for myself.
Eventually, I took the plunge todo the pilot training. The
school I selected to use hascome in Bristol aviation. And
just so happened to ban a do usethe same company. And it was for
me it was day one day two downin South Africa, a place called
port Alfred on the Eastern Cape.
(02:57):
And that's where we werecondemned to do a train and Ben
had already been there a fewweeks. And it was in there the
loans of Dublin block in the43rd air school are offered that
we met and April 2009. So threeyears ago,
Dave Rogers (03:13):
if those walls could talk a feels like a
Ben Hall (03:16):
distant memory now.
Dave Rogers (03:19):
So one of the reasons why I'm really keen to
get to know you today, Mike isbecause your your journey has
been well what word would youuse? unorthodox?
Mike Burgess (03:31):
Yeah. Long arduous. frustrating at times
that essentially in the end,right, well, the most exciting
you know, it's the latter partof it's been very exciting. But
obviously the first part thatwas Yeah, frustrating I think
would be the the best word touse.
Ben Hall (03:50):
I think from my point of view, knowing Dave Willis to
know Michael, this time, there'sbeen a lot of persistence to get
to the point you're you'recurrently at.
Dave Rogers (04:00):
I am finding the more pilots we speak to the more
persistence is perhaps the mostimportant trait that you will
need to get into this game. Andso let's go back to life before
piloting then because piratingabsolutely wasn't your first
career was it? What did you Whatdid you do to begin with to make
Mike Burgess (04:20):
and so for me, from from quite young age, I'd
always kind of enjoyed tinkeringor baking things and then random
by the age of 14, maybe we hadall the careers and the military
careers guys come into theschool. And I was sold on the on
the RF, the Air Force. Soessentially, the earliest you
could apply was 15 years, ninemonths. From that very day. I
(04:43):
was in their careers office inAberdeen got the paperwork and
had it signed, parents have tosign in to give them the go
ahead to apply. And that was meand did all their interviewing
test in medical and from twomonths after my 16th ourselves
down doing basic training. Sothat was airframe engineering.
(05:04):
So essentially did the basictraining. And from there you
were then pushed it to whereverit may be. For me, it was a
famous dambuster squad, whichwas quite a quite a journey that
was only there for 19 monthsbefore I went back to do further
training. But I was working ontornado fast jet aircraft. So
(05:25):
the sense of the mechanicalmaintenance repair service and
of those aircraft, and, andagain, did some more training
ended up back our Air Forcemouth again, just quick local to
where I was from. And yeah,seven years at the dance floor.
And as funny as it sounds,people sitting waiting your fly
(05:45):
when you're in there in the RF.
So there was always that beingon the line flight lane, you see
an aircraft or if you see atick, or if you see him coming
in line, there's always that piein the sky thing of No, you're
not going to be a pilot one day,but there's never really a
serious consideration. And thenI came over and RDF, and I got a
flying lesson just as like aflight experience for Christmas
(06:06):
one year. And the instructor atthe time said, you know, you
you've taped to this quite well,have you ever considered doing
it. And kind of from there, itwas like it was a bit more of a
seed had been planted. But fromthat point, I didn't go straight
to the flight train. And I wentoffshore worked in on gas
industry, which is quite apopular thing to do in this neck
(06:27):
of the woods as well. And I didthat for a few years, met my
wife who took me to NorthernIreland. And when I was over in
Northern Ireland, I was projectmonitoring over there in a
company for Caterpillar who dopower generation, I got in touch
with a friend I used to work inRDF with who was down in Dublin.
And he'd actually been goingthrough the, I suppose the
(06:49):
aptitude side of it. Andcompanies are always trying to
sell you places in training andthey would look at you, you
know, to elevate along to theseaptitude tests. And so are you,
you're great, you'd be reallygood at this, by the way do you
want to place it's going to costyou X amount. So I kind of went
down that route place in Dublin.
(07:13):
And it actually turned out cut along story short, in the end,
the place in Dublin where I wentto the very first part was a
sister company of Bristolaviation, I ended up with in the
end. So from leaving school at16, and join the Air Force. It
was, what 10 years later, nineyears later before it obviously
(07:35):
took off. First step of gettinginto the aircraft and doing that
very first lesson down in SouthAfrica.
Dave Rogers (07:42):
So with that, with that first lesson, when the when
the instructor said to you,you've taken to this quite
naturally, have you ever givenit a go? I mean, I know
hindsight is a wonderful thing.
But did any part of you thinkah, I wish I'd I wish I pursued
this more when I had thoseaircraft almost at my disposal
in the RF
Mike Burgess (08:02):
100%.
Ben Hall (08:05):
Mr. Robbins
Mike Burgess (08:08):
said, an annoying thing is as well, in the forces
in the military, you've gotthese basically learning credits
that the military or thatthey're paying you to go out and
do courses. And one of thethings I did what's going to
help me in my purse, you know,when I pursued the offshore
industry was I did a datarelease course, in mechatronics
(08:29):
and Hnc. And I was paid forabout 180 percent of that and it
was paid for by the RAF Moreimportantly, I got a day off
work every week. You know, and,and looking at that, even after
I came out there for us, I thinkI had up to 10 years to use
these credits of which couldhave been used towards flight
training. And I never knew untilit was too late. You know, there
(08:54):
could have been six grand ofpilot training there over the
space of two years, which,again, looking at hindsight, you
know, could have been done, butit would have been a journey
that's been turned. And I don'tknow if the satisfaction would
have been the same if ithappened. And it
Ben Hall (09:10):
sounds like from what you've said, it wasn't like an
immediate point where it's like,right want to be a pilot, it was
kind of a gradual build up,right, working in the RFP a
little bit and then having ataste of flight and
Mike Burgess (09:21):
yeah, yeah. Your plans, like the amount of people
we've met through Korea, eventhrough the flight train, and
it's like, oh, when I was three,I've told my dad I wanted to be
a pilot and the bug it's alwaysbeen there. And it certainly
wasn't like out with me. Youknow, it's an equally I've met
people who've been similar tomyself who've come to aviation a
(09:43):
little bit later through, maybenot essentially being interested
in at the start and something'sgonna put them on. And but yeah,
that, like you say it was beingin the Air Force. It was never a
real consideration that I couldThat would be at Baylor. And I
suppose part of that was down tothe stigma attached to it being,
(10:06):
you know, it's a rich boys clubthat, you know, it's something
that without the money withoutthe investment, there's wasn't
really that many Connect shipseither where you could
essentially get paid for you.
And again, now, like I said,growing up, it's one of those
things where you think, the paidloads of money, and when you get
(10:28):
paid loads of money, it'sbecause you, you know, you're
super smart or something. Anddon't get me wrong. I'm not, you
know, the, I wouldn't say I'mthe blonde, just the pencil
case, but you know, there needsto be that element of education
as well, you know,
Dave Rogers (10:50):
and also, that level of self belief, you, you
mentioned it there, like, likethe rich boys club, it does
seem, particularly in the UK tobe that echelon of people who
are like, Well, yeah, I canabsolutely be a pilot, or I can
absolutely be a Formula Onedriver, or I don't know,
professional golfer, or any ofthese things that just seem like
normal people can't achievethem. And I think it just takes
(11:13):
some people a little bit longerto realise they can and it took
you until your mid 20s. Whereasit might take somebody else
until their 30s, or somebodyelse, as you say, might just
mention it to their parents inpassing at six years of age, I
can be a pilot, but you youarrived at that journey in your
own title or the destination inyour own time. And and when you
(11:34):
got there, there was no doubtthat it was the right thing.
Mike Burgess (11:37):
100% from from taking that first step. And like
you say, in hindsight, I wishI'd done it earlier because the
satisfaction of say, going towork works maybe the right word,
but it's not a job. You know,there's not a single day gone to
play with my big shiny toy. Andthat I feel it's a job. It's
(12:00):
nice to be paid for doing it, ofcourse. And but yeah, yeah, it's
just that realisation thatagain, it's some people's dreams
and some people get their dreamsa little bit earlier on in life.
Mankin just that little bitlater on, you know,
Dave Rogers (12:15):
do you think because of the the work you've
done in the past in the forces,and then that offshore work,
which, you know, it's it's it'swell remunerated, but it is
difficult, you do spend a lot oftime away from friends and loved
ones, do you think having thoseprevious jobs has given you a
greater appreciation of what youget to do now?
Mike Burgess (12:36):
Definitely the offshore side of it. I started
in the North Sea. So it's beentwo weeks, three weeks, I came
home for two weeks, three weeks,two animals. And then a couple
of years after doing that, Iended up in a job in there in
the Middle East. And the moneywas good. And, you know, it was
it was, it gave us a kind ofnice lifestyle, you know, we
(13:00):
don't really need to go withoutanything. But it was anywhere up
to four or five and a half weeksaway at a time. And the same
you're getting out when you gethome. But what you find is when
you're away that long. And youknow, you're earning the money
here, you're not really spendingmoney when you're away, so you
can come back and you can enjoythat that lifestyle. But when
(13:20):
you're coming back, I haven'tbeen away for four or five
weeks, it's been taking a weekor two to kind of get into the
routine of waking kids, youknow, the certain things
especially, you know, we had ouryoungest child when I was
working offshore. So I wasfortunate that I was home for
the first few weeks, but evenjust that first two weeks away
and coming back, women youmissed, and then certain changes
(13:42):
in routine, they're they'reaffecting my wife would go into
place and having to kind of goon to that. It's not just a case
of getting five weeks of home,you know that five weeks home?
There's a lot of that time thattakes you to adopt, as well. So
getting home every night, no,very occasionally you've got the
organised stays. But you knowthat essentially, it's a job
(14:03):
when I'm home every night. Andyou know, you definitely
appreciate that. You know thatside of things
Dave Rogers (14:09):
with regards to having kids? And how difficult
was it? Well, did it ever comeinto your consideration that
having that time off work andhaving to retrain and all the
money that it takes to retrainwhilst you've got the family to
feed did that ever sort of leaveany doubts as to whether you
were doing the right thing whenyou were training to be a pilot?
Mike Burgess (14:30):
Yeah. So this started the training, the way
that the programme market wassupposed to be. It was around a
six month stint in South Africa.
And the way that they saw youknow, the way that the training
can be sold out to you said thatprobably wouldn't be a chance to
get home at that time. So whereare we are we already other our
eldest at the time she wasprobably five I think. So. It
(14:52):
was a really difficultconversation. You know, I was
given up work saw the car wifewas going to be at home with a
child and her own she was anurse. So it's not like she had
a and I fly in high income jobeither. So that that decision
was taken. And it was onlybecause of the support of my
(15:12):
wife that that the decision wasmade to go extreme short, any
kind of hesitation that shedidn't think it was a good idea
or that she didn't. And Iwouldn't say core because well,
Ben knows that she's a prettystrong lady. And she doesn't
make it to wouldn't need me tobe there if she didn't think
that. You know, but yeah,definitely it was it was
(15:35):
definitely a consideration. ButI'll tell you a lot of the
people that we met in SouthAfrica I can't even think of any
offhand of the any of any ofthose podcasts. A lot of them
are young, single men, guys,girls, wherever. And there was a
massive adventure for them. Andwhile it was also a massive
(15:55):
adventure, for me, there wasalways that worry about, you
know, is everything already athome, and we had regular
contact, it was difficult,especially down there, stocks,
the internet was awful. Sotrying to keep in touch on on a
daily basis trying to do theSkype call and or, and, you
know, it was quite hard going.
(16:17):
But yeah, there was definitelythat consideration there. Doing
the right thing or, and again,it was looking at the longer
picture. You know, it wasessentially six, nine months to
set up for, you know, what wasahead of us from now.
Ben Hall (16:33):
It's quite funny, actually. Because in South
Africa, the expats, so there's afew British and Irish guys that
are going down through thiscourse. And they tended to be I
mean, it was only probably fiveyears older, on average than the
South Africans. But that age gapmade such a difference. So vast
majority of the South Africanlocals have come straight out of
(16:53):
high school, so they were 1819years old. Whereas we were when
I was early 20s. Mike was how wemight 27 at the time.
Mike Burgess (17:05):
I'm 26. Yeah.
Yeah.
Ben Hall (17:07):
So I mean, we weren't old by any means. But just that
little age gap meant we had verydifferent mindsets about how we
got on down there.
Mike Burgess (17:18):
Yeah.
Dave Rogers (17:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
And so you got through flightschool. And surely then it's all
plain sailing, you get a job,you become a pilot. The rest is
history. Yep, that's exactly howit worked.
Mike Burgess (17:35):
For some, for some of us. For some, for some,
Dave Rogers (17:41):
I half knew the answer to that question. And so
expectation versus reality, thenyou passed with literally flying
colours. What then?
Mike Burgess (17:53):
Yeah. Expectation versus reality, chalk and
cheese. You know, the way Isuppose the industry was, I
think it was on its own by thenas well. So it wasn't like there
wasn't really recruitment goingon. And I was I've been in a
position where I've beensearching for jobs before but
I've never been in a positionwhere I've not had a job and
(18:14):
been searching you know, so whenI transitioned from the Air
Force, the offshore offshore wasbooming. I applied for jobs I
got I left a job went into jobthis was very different you
know, I was and I think thepressure was on you know, the
the desperation was there. But Iwas just I was just engulfed in
spending, you know, hours andhours trawling the internet
(18:36):
trolling different sites, andsending emails sending see these
and, and you get to that pointof frustration, where you don't
even get an acknowledgment. Ifyou get an acknowledgement you
don't get Thanks, but no thanks.
And then the first year, Isuppose the first year was my
bar. The year when I got thejob. Nine years later, the first
(18:57):
year was probably moresuccessful, because I got an
interview with Cathay Pacificand in London, which would have
been based in Hong Kong. Soagain, that was going to be our
epic offer, there was going tobe a very difficult
conversation, which obviouslywe'd already had, but without
the reality of maybe somethinghappening. And I also got
assessments and interview stagewith them. There was like a pre
(19:21):
interview and then an assessmentstage with Lufthansa and but it
was the Lufthansa Italia and saythe things and I don't know what
they're looking for. Andastronauts I think that their
their assessment and again,they're looking for the cream of
(19:42):
the crop so you can obviouslypass these tests but for me,
that was very much a case of youknow, they want a 1% or 2% of
the crop and for me that wasn'tyou know, wasn't the case. It
fly in They kind of opted to tofly in. I worked hard to, to, to
master it to pass and, you know,first series process, some
(20:07):
people get in a plane and it'sabsolutely natural to them,
they, you know, everything isdone exactly as it should be
when it should be. But thatwasn't the case for me. So
something somewhere likeLufthansa, although it was nice
to get the, you know, the, theassessment, there was an element
of realisation that, yeah, itwas, it was a good experience,
but the expectation of gettingsomething was probably not
(20:30):
there. And then it all goesquiet, you know, so your, your
Phantom CV to try and keep, youknow, you're looking at all
these websites, and one of themwas one called paper in, and
it's just full of so muchnegativity that you can have to
take yourself away from it. Butagain, it's also quite a good
port of knowledge for picking upon if jobs have come up that you
(20:52):
haven't seen or things likethat. One of the good things
that did come as well wascompany in Belfast, and best at
the old Grove and the Belfastinternational doing many
flights, many of our flights,and the aircraft that they use.
So without going into too muchdetail you've got you've got
aircraft that are authorised forsingle pilot operations.
(21:18):
However, because it was manymedevac flights to give the
patients and you know, people inthe back a little bit of kind of
reassurance and confidence, theywould use qualified pilots, but
not necessarily legally rated tofly those aircraft. And it's all
legal and aboveboard, and theycall them pilots assistants. So
(21:38):
I had like a multi engine pistonrating. And it was a multi
engine piston aircraft that Iwas a pilot's assistant in. And
so I was there. And if theproverbial I'd had the fun, I
would have been capable enoughof landing the aircraft. And
with about gains, however, youknow, on paper, it wasn't
illegal. That's not the rightword. But it wasn't. I couldn't
(22:02):
afford that aircraft on my ownbike, there's insistence on I
got that work with them. It wasand it was done paired it was on
our call basis. Sometimes I geta call seven, eight at night
saying can you come in at fivein the morning, we've got
flights Oxford. And so it wasreally good. Now the downside of
eyes, under their certain rulesof car at the time was I
couldn't log any of thoseflights. So what we was doing
(22:26):
was well above board, but Icouldn't put it down on paper
and as actual experience. Soalthough I can include on the
CV, how about experience as apilot's assistant. In the
logbook, you can actually putthose hours don't so it was good
experience. good fun. And butyou know, it didn't really lead
(22:47):
to anything. And I don't thinkthat it played a part in really,
because it was so long ago, Idon't think it played any part
in me getting the job loganairIn the end, but again, I put it
down to experience good fun. Youknow,
Ben Hall (23:04):
just a day's benefit with this. So you come out of
flying school, right? You've gotyour shiny new licence. But
everything's got validity dates.
So certain things run out in sixmonths, certain things around 12
months, some things run outafter five years. So you've
really got to be with the jobhunt, especially you come out,
you start searching for jobs.
And at the beginning, it's fine,because your licence is nice and
(23:26):
fresh. But then after a fewmonths, you start thinking,
right, I'm going to be in a bitof trouble here. Because if I
don't get a job in the next Xamount of time, then I'm gonna
have to stop paying myself tokeep everything current. And
Mike, I think you ended upeventually doing that for 10
years, didn't you?
Mike Burgess (23:45):
Yeah, well, nine years, qualified June, June
2010, was my officialqualification day, I got my
licence issued Three weeks laterthan in July. And then I started
logging out on the first of July2019. So it was essentially a
month shorter nine years, fromgetting the licence in my hand
(24:06):
to then start in a job where Iwas being paid to be a pilot.
Dave Rogers (24:09):
Wow. I mean, it would be remiss of us here, Ben.
Whilst we're talking aboutwebsites, not to mention pilot
base.com, but we'll just we'llvery good plug Dave, I thought
you weren't very good at thebusiness stuff. We'll just leave
that in the ether. And if peoplewho are listening decide to go
on to whatever browser they use,and type in pilot based.com then
(24:33):
I think that'd be that'd be agreat thing to do. Nine years is
a long time and we'll talk aboutwhat's happened since you've got
the loganair job shortly. But inthat nine years, what did you do
to sort of keep the lights on?
And did you ever think gosh, youknow what, the piloting it's
something that I dreamed of, butI'm just gonna have to put it in
(24:54):
a box and and think about adifferent career.
Mike Burgess (24:59):
Yeah. So just to start with a lot of point not
not happens several times, and,you know, you look at the, the,
there's a yearly cost againstkeeping legal, legal and current
has completely different legalas you got paper, that paper
that says you can, you canessentially fly an aircraft
current is flying as much as youcan to keep a hand eye
(25:22):
coordination. So, naturally Forme it was a case of under the
rules of like cost sharing, forexample, My plan was to, and I
did, I joined the local flyingclub in new Norge. And, you
know, you get a couple of monthsof well get a flight a month to
(25:45):
keep up with so a flying clubgot legal, you know, the rules
along with that insurance aswell. So you need to fly a
certain attain a certain amountof times per month or purse
extra days to keep theirinsurance and if you don't
you're then typify with aninstructor, and if you do is
more expensive. So you're alwaystrying to stop days to make sure
that you get an insider's toureach year, as Ben was saying,
(26:08):
you've got to then go back anddo a proficiency check. And the
way that works with your multiengine. So you've got like to
essentially get global airlinesneed a multi engine instrument
rain. And then some rain has tobe read on every year to the
first year, you can do it in thesimulator, the second year has
to be done the aircraft and thenyou can alternate from there. So
(26:28):
it does make a little bitcheaper that first year because
it's far cheaper to fly in asimulator than it is the actual
aircraft. So the first year Iwent back to Bristol. And
towards the end of the secondyear, and again, it was getting
to the point where you'restarting to lose about fears and
about hope. And there's a friendof mine who we've met through
(26:50):
Bristol aviation, he was using acompany in Spain. And it was
like, well, and then peoplesaid, Well, why do you go to
Spain? Why not do in the UK. Soit's all the same licence, it's
all the same regular, whoever,whether it's bit more guaranteed
to essentially go in there. Andcheaper. And you know, between
the cost of fuel the, theaircraft there. And, and yeah,
(27:12):
and it's also a waste notlisten, it's also a chance to
get away with a watch for theweekend
to somewhere, somewhere likeMadrid or Bristol. But even when
they even when they travel, youknow, it was cheaper going to
Madrid than it was somewherelike Bristol or so the first two
years, it was everything wasdone, you know, I'm on this I'm
(27:36):
going to do. And at the end ofthe second year, I think was
probably the first Teddy's overcall, you know, it's not
uncommon for me, I'm giving upyou know, and I'm willing to do
a good job marking off Sure. Andthen give money take thing you
know, so I let you know whybother type thing like you see,
(27:56):
you get to that point where youknow, it's not, it's not. It's
not It's not that. And then atsome point, you get that bug
again. And the the part of thelicence that let lunch was
purely just for the better, Ineed a tech to get commercial
flying job, I could still flythe Cessna, you know the single
(28:17):
engine for pleasure, becauseit's the validity of that
specific rating is two yearsinstead of one year. So the idea
was to still continue to not Ithought I'd then come to keep it
going as just an expensivehobby, rather not a long term
kind of career thing. So thatwas the kind of main set out
(28:39):
there. And then again, somethinghappened, you know, I had a
friend and Eastern airways whosaid Grable, Eastern areas is
recruiting they're an Aberdeen.
Give them a show. So I did, Igave you some areas to show.
Yeah, we'll get you in for aninterview. Can you come this
time? And I'm saying Well, I'moffshore, but I'm flexible that
(29:00):
states and it goes from that towell, we were almost squeezing
into a slot that been cancelledas a favour to this guy that I
knew. And it's just like,really, you know, it isn't
really that hard to get in anindustry that's on the pickup
Ben Hall (29:18):
by No You mean I I've been to loads of airline
interviews in my life and someof them you just get a better
feeling than others that youwould fit in with the company
ethos and the you know, just thejust the way everything feels
you can have the exact sameinterview but you just feel more
comfortable and more at home inone than the other.
Mike Burgess (29:36):
I definitely not be aware of Yeah, I'll
definitely be aware ofdescribing them. They're just
just general atmosphere youknow, you got you got easily
pleased we've got some images.
That's where I was. I was toldif we get sandwiches over sold,
you know, but again, Logan outhas got a lot of ex RAF guys as
(29:57):
well in the engineering side.
And, and actually over 30minutes we were chatting,
probably 1015 minutes of my 30minute say interview char was
talking about my time in the RAFand being offshore and the HR
director was, I think he saidthat they talked to Don de the
base of Dundee for organelles,they talked about being rfmd.
(30:20):
Because 90% of the, the theengineers for loganair were all
extra off guys. So they knowwhat they're getting, you know,
generally, military in general,are guys who understand and
respect authority, but they'vealso got that confidence to
speak up where things maybearen't correct, they've got the
(30:41):
discipline to turn into workevery day on time, their plan,
and their preparation is alwaysI say always, generally, most of
time. They know and again, so.
And I think, though and don't myrough experience, although it
wasn't flying. And just the factI'd been in the army have played
a big part, you know, there wasdefinitely not definitely give a
(31:03):
positive spin. And to therecruiters and getting, you
know, and taking them out daily,
Dave Rogers (31:10):
the way you've spoken about loganair. It sounds
like you've got a greataffection for them. With all the
the sort of places you'vevisited in the near misses
you've had in the mistakesyou've made. Does it feel like
loganair is a great fit, andprobably even the best fit for
you as a pilot as aprofessional. Yeah.
Mike Burgess (31:34):
without going into too much detail recently,
there's been certain things thatmaybe could have done better.
But that's that's justcircumstance of what's going on
and what we end the day, whenthese times and nobody could
have planned. There's no manualon how to deal with it. So that
that's kind of things that canbe forgiven, depending on how
(31:57):
things go forward. 100% from theday I joined the company. And
first of July last year, we werein Glasgow, there are certain
things that we did before westarted our actual tape course.
And we were in the office. So Ithink we're getting remember it
well, we were still getting ahigh vis vest for Knox. And to
(32:18):
do fire and smoke training andAberdeen and the the MD Jonathan
henckels walked through theoffice, what passes and stopped
and turned around and it must bethe new intake of Embraer guys,
any any Stickney supporters, andhe introduced himself, you asked
who we were, what experience wehad. And he says, and as it
(32:38):
happens, he says, then there's ameeting room next door, I'm just
going on with them, their crewmanager to speak about our kind
of forward plans, he says,You're more than welcome to come
in second, and listen to whatthe company is planning the
future. And for me to come froma big multi national service
company and gas industry wheremy own country manager didn't
(33:00):
even know my name. you'd walkpast me in the office and didn't
acknowledge me to have like theMD of the company to spend that
time and not only introducehimself, but ask about OHS
invite us into a meeting. It wasjust a way off. And from that
day, it felt like everything wasjust the way it should have
been. The Nine years, the CathayPacific they are Lingus that
(33:25):
Ryanair was always like thathappen, because this was common.
And that's all prepared. Itsounds so cliche saying that
ever happens for a reason. Butfor me that really was there.
perfect plan, you know, we werehosting Keith, that we didn't
need to move from. There was nobrainer the family and it was
really their dream job wascommon. It was starting on a jet
(33:47):
as well, which is the dream ofWell, I think most pilots would
say it's like a guest star onany kind of jet. It's, it's the
United States dream of a firstjob. So yeah, it's very much an
affection I've got with acompany. It's Scotland's
airline. And I love wearing atie and tie every day. And
(34:07):
there's, there's there's some ofthe ones and some of the English
ones especially reluctantly werethey tight and tight because
they have to do some of thatperhaps they love it as much as
they think it's part of theirrecognition of walking through
and we don't go into bigairports. it's it's it's not
(34:28):
such a big thing but goingthrough like sobre de and you've
got you've got Ryanair, you'vegot Lufthansa, you've got
EasyJet you've got BritishAirways, but you instantly
recognise the loganair brand.
You've got the tire and tie butthe tire and tail on the
aircraft. And it does it it kindof it makes me a bit fuzzy
knowing that I'm you know,flying for them and hopefully
will be for you know, for yearsto come. Yeah, but yeah, it was
(34:49):
definitely an infection there.
Yeah,
Dave Rogers (34:54):
I love it and just hearing you talk about all of
the other things that kind ofled to this point. with anything
that you do, whether it'sweather, whether it's being a
pilot, or, or anything, you justwant to be able to seize that
one opportunity, you just wantto be in a position to take it
when it presents itself. Andmaybe if you hadn't have had all
(35:15):
those other experiences and allof those other near misses, then
you wouldn't have been able tograb them, grab this for
Medicaid. Oh, yeah,
Mike Burgess (35:23):
100%, we'll just go back to the lenders thing,
one of the guys, I did theassessment with the young guy,
he'd been fresh out of training.
And he eventually it was quite afew months down the lane. So it
was fair planning from makingthe decision. But he'd got start
with another airline, andanother regional airline, and
Aer Lingus came and says, Hey,you know, we want you while you
(35:44):
start with us. So, if I've beenin the same position as him, and
accepted our Lingus, if I'dgone, he he was three weeks and
as take Britain, and then hehasn't flown since February, in
a certain way, and he's stillemployed and 15% salary in a big
airline, but he doesn't know ifhe's getting taken back on or if
(36:06):
he's laid off, you know, so. Andagain, it's one of those things
that everything happens for areason, although the flying has
been vastly reduced. for evenlonger now, we've kept going and
throw the whole, you know,seven, eight months of the, you
know, the crisis pandemic,whichever overly used word at
(36:27):
the minute, if you want to usebut yes, we've, we've managed to
keep going. And, as I said, acompany I've done, I believe,
especially in the early parts ofit. And I've done very well to
kind of keep everybody as muchas they could in jobs and
current flying as much as hecan. You know, so
Dave Rogers (36:51):
I'm very aware that we've been speaking for a long
time here. So I reallyappreciate your time, and I
won't keep you for too muchlonger. But because of the
affection that you've you'vetalked about both the company
that you work for and flyingitself, not necessarily the
process, but just try and giveme a description of the of the
feelings of the emotions you geton a day where you're going to
(37:14):
fly. So from arriving at theairport, walking through in your
tartan tie sitting on the tarmacin the cockpit and actually
taking off and, and the processof flying itself. How do you
feel on a work day on a flightday,
Mike Burgess (37:29):
it's a mix of excitement and nerves. And I
think the nerves at the minuteis is primarily because you're
not flying so often. So I'mstill very, very early in my
flying career in terms of notonly time in months, but time as
in hours flying. And, you know,for me, I had measured even with
(37:50):
logon hours on a train and Itook two attempts to do what
they call best trim. And just Icouldn't quite muster the London
technique, which apparently isquite important. And then
Dave Rogers (38:08):
I just think if for anybody for anybody who flies
loganair when you're when you'relistening to this if and if a
voice comes over the Tannoysystem and it's like a your
pilot today is Mike Burgess,just strap in ready.
Mike Burgess (38:24):
If you've got it, you've got to stick it under
yourself to soften the blow. Butit just shows you and again,
just going off topic and it justshows, you know, the reason I've
got that affection for loggingout because they never made a
point of saying you're underpressure to pass What are you
going to do in your ear. Inother words, we will work with
you I got a bit of extra time inAssam. And you know so. So going
(38:48):
through that. And so that'swhere the nerves come from is
that and making sure you know Ijust want to be I want to get
away from that there was a bitof a kind of stigma for myself
think that people are gonnathink I'm two times maybe
because two times in my basetrain I took a second attempt in
my lane check as a minor issuethe very end of the at the end
(39:09):
of the flight. But again, thesecond time I did it, everything
was on point where it shouldhave been since then the
progression and the same checksof a two cent checks or a two
lane checks and they've all beensigned off as being at least
company standard or better. Eventhe last one being in the very
good range for me. And I can seethat progression, but the
(39:31):
element of nose because of thelack of fly and I still want to
make sure that everything is asit should be in perfect. The
excitement air you know, everyday I'm going to work is really
exciting, you know, previousjobs I would have I would have
given it my best. But if Istarted working six I'd have
(39:54):
been there at five to six when Iwas no it's like on a you You
have to kind of weigh in thelegalities of time, you know,
duty time, so you can't arrivetoo early. But for me, it's, I'm
going to be in there, and mypaperwork is going to be done so
that everything I can focus ongetting settled correctly, you
know, we can do our briefingbefore we go to the aircraft.
(40:15):
And I've got enough time thatI'm not rushing, so everything's
done as it should be. But eventhough the only reports that we
had we had reports were to be,um, right on the cusp of our
report time of 60 minutes. Andso on an earlier report, I
believe in the house at half,four in the morning, began up a
quarter to four. And the alarmgoes off, and welcome in the
(40:37):
shower and think, well, I'mgoing to fly a plane, you know,
and it's that statement everyday that I go to work. So, you
go work, you printed yourpaperwork, you can have a look.
And, and there's always anelement of your hope the
weather's nice, but sometimesthat you get that hope of hope
there's a little bit of kind ofchoppiness today, because it's
(40:58):
going to, you know, it kind ofalmost puts in the
Dave Rogers (41:03):
ads a bit spicier, I guess the challenge remains
that you've got the skills
Mike Burgess (41:09):
Yeah, because loganair really do encourage a
lot more manual hand flying, youknow, that you're actually going
to get feel the aircraft and andyou know, the the excitement of
actually flying an aircraft asopposed to these kind of big
fancy jumbo jets where you justpress buttons all the way.
Dave Rogers (41:28):
Yeah, like these, like these a 380s. He's lazy.
Guys don't play Yeah.
Ben Hall (41:35):
We all know the aircraft can fly better than
weekend.
Mike Burgess (41:39):
But, yeah, so the thing, I find the money and, and
I still, even even as recent asmy last flight, when you're
sitting on the end of therunway, that's the first time
you really get to control thecaptain, and does all the
taoxian. You know, I started theengines, I think, I don't know
if that's a common thing for allairlines, but it's their first
(42:01):
officer who starts the engines.
And then the captain, you doyour checks, he talks to the end
of the runway. And if it's myflying sector, the words you
have control, it just gives youthat kind of boost from feeling
you know, the hairs in the backof that neck stand on end. And
it's when you've got the thrustflavours in your hand and you
(42:24):
advance and forward, you canfeel it spooling up. And then
again, I don't know if Ben feelsthis because it's so big, it's
like a, it's like a slow, slowcrawl to start with. In the in
the smaller aircraft, we've gottwo variants, we've got the 135,
which is a 37 seater. So it'sgood but shorter than the one
four or five, but it's got thesame engines. So when you have
only one free fight, especiallyat the minute with the loads
(42:47):
that we are getting, you know,you you're getting less than
half aircraft, so you can feelthat that power binding and
you've got that thrust banger,and like a rocket ship, isn't it
when it's hot? It is Yeah, youcan, you can be claiming it's
six, six and a half 1000 feetper minute. And in the 135, and
it's empty. And that's doing itwithout any kind of struggle,
(43:07):
you know, you're maintaining allyour parameters that you need to
be and you're just not, youknow, it's not exciting. It's
still exciting for me. And Iknow, as I said, I'm still very,
very early in my flying career,and you fly with the odd Captain
who's been fine 1015 years andthen well, you know, I can't
wait to retire. And I reallyought I never get to that point.
(43:30):
Because for me, regardless ofwhere you are in your career,
you know, you're flying anaircraft you're getting paid to
do what most people would onlyever dream of doing without
being paid for it, you know, soit's it's a, it's just, I still
get that kind of, and I get Iget excited when I'm talking
(43:50):
about as well you know, I don'tknow, when you're when you're
kind of talking to people andthis is so cool. And you know,
it's same it's the same as beingvegan, you know, there's a pilot
in the room because he's gonnatell you and I have I have
absolutely no qualms about that.
You know, I'm so proud of thethings you asked about the fact
(44:13):
that I'm a payer and andsometimes that can talk about I
think, I hope I'm not comingacross as bullish in Oregon
because it's not I don't see itas being I never looked down on
other people's in positions orwhat they do. But I'm very proud
of the fact that you know, I'm apilot the journey it's taken me
to get here.
Ben Hall (44:33):
Stop wearing a uniform to different parties. I
Mike Burgess (44:39):
stopped wearing them at school, and I'm sure
you're wearing the you know,they're often a gentleman
turning up in order.
Ben Hall (44:50):
Is the hat really necessary? Good news.
Mike Burgess (44:54):
But it is sometimes not especially the
minute I'm not flying. I've beendoing and project going on. And
I'm in my uniform, and I don'thate it. You know, I'm in Norway
now. Probably more so nowbecause it's cold. Yes, I've got
the jacket over the top, but Ido. I do draw shorts wearing the
(45:15):
blazer, you know, I don't knowthe full blazer. I wear the kind
of shirt and tie and theaccolades, but a lot, especially
over the corner here. So we havea jacket over the top, but and
yeah, it was in the summermonths. It was like, No, I'm
proud of this. I'm going toschool gets with the show. Good
man.
Ben Hall (45:34):
Do you have time to talk about project? Man briefly?
Mike Burgess (45:36):
Yeah, yeah, of course. You know, there's
there's no, there's no rush.
Yeah.
Ben Hall (45:41):
So just just for Dave's benefit project, would
Dave Rogers (45:44):
you say just for Dave's benefit, I'd like to hope
that there are some peoplelistening to this podcast who
also don't have a Scooby whatproject wingman is?
Ben Hall (45:54):
project wingman is an excellent initiative set up at
the beginning of Corona viruspandemic, by some airline
pilots. Right. Is that right?
Mike?
Mike Burgess (46:06):
I don't know if you if you've ever seen the
EasyJet programme. I can'tremember what it was called. But
basically covered the I think itcovered the kind of transition
of some of the cadet pilotsthrough their base chain and
interline training and beyond.
And there was a particularCaptain Captain Mr. Henderson,
and who was one of the maincharacters, but obviously, you
(46:30):
know, there are COVID and whatshe was doing as a job. And
between her and another Captainfrom VA, when the pandemic cat
in the scene, there's all thesecabin crew pilots who got
furloughed, even laid offcertainly, as you know, back in
the early stages, and who, andthe way that she puts it, it's a
(46:54):
specific skill of dealing withthe public, you know, the
empathy, the professionalism.
And what they be initially setout to do was just set up a
couple of lounges, and a coupleof the most busiest London
hospitals because she was basedin Gatwick and I assume other
(47:14):
companies based in Heathrow. Andit started off as we wanted to
sell a couple of these loungeswhere they would serve all the
NHS staff on our breaks, tea andcoffee, a few snacks that they
would hope to be donated. And,and yet, it essentially just
give the staff somewhere to goand kind of, you know, just
(47:37):
relax and wind down a little bitbetween their breaks and even
just to talk about somethingother than the hardest I've ever
seen and not in the hospitalswith these guys. And you know,
with all these patients andpeople coming in who has been
over dying, and so on. And fromtheir word got around. So there
(47:58):
was parts of the the trust todaywith MSA and well we've got
hospital here. Would you like tocome here? Where do they come
here? Of course, other trustsfind out Would you like to come
here? and Emma is actually livesin comox, which is where the
flying club is. And her husbandis? I think he's ex Air Force
but back working as a civilianin the in the base
Ben Hall (48:20):
that don't tell us too much about
Mike Burgess (48:23):
Oh, okay, so Emma will tell you all about herself
on other episodes. She has doneso they also project itself and
where I get involved is it bestto explore to threaten the UK.
So there's from start, no,there's been over 80 of closures
(48:44):
have opened, some of them haveno shot because things come down
and certain hospitals neededeither spare spark or didn't
feel it was a necessity anymore.
And so originally, and becauseof where I live, I'm pretty much
slap bang in the middle ofAberdeen and Vanessa and I put
on the website that I wasinterested in, I'd be happy to
(49:04):
travel to Aberdeen on anoccasion to volunteer in there.
And so unexpectedly when whenDr. Grace came up, which is an
elegant it's only 20 minutesalong the road. Obviously I you
know, I got straight and theyyou know, I was furloughed from
basically the 23rd of March Ithink I flew my last flight up
(49:25):
until and then they started mada few flights in May but not
very many. So even though I wasback, doing a lot of our flying
I still felt there was plenty oftime to go and volunteer a few
days a week. And Elgon and itwas that the reception of it was
just it was amazing. You knowthat the staff would come in and
say you know, we don't feel wedeserve this. And especially in
(49:47):
Oregon, where it was a designatewhat they were saying I think
they use the term designatedclean. So if they got somebody
that was already positivecomments Elgon, they would
basically push the motel but inInverness, because we're trying
to maintain Elgon as a as a kindof more local hospital for
emergencies to maintain thatservice. So some of the stuff in
(50:11):
there was really quiet, we don'tdeserve this, you know, we're
coming in here. And it was greatbecause they, they would come
in, and they would ask aboutyour work and what you did, and
they were interested in findingout more about you. And for me
personally, and I got myself ina bit of a rut, you know, I was
(50:31):
I had no purpose, I had nothingagainst foreign Warren. And that
seems quite extreme, because,you know, Becky, and the kids,
it was hard homeschooling. Andit was really quite a change for
me, because I would go home andeven shower, you know, setting
(50:52):
the school phone, get the kidssorted with schoolwork, and then
it almost be left up to the toour eldest daughters and attain
the youngest one. And I will besitting glued to the TV,
obsessed with numbers. And I'llget a death rate today. And you
know, watching their updates inthe news and on the phone, and
I'm quite bad my phone anyway.
(51:14):
But I'm just just constantlyglued to my phone. And my wife's
a nurse. So because of the kindof line of work she was in, she
was getting into occupationalhealth work and all that was
removed. So she continued withsome of the agencies that she
was on. And she was workingnight shift. So at night, I'll
be sitting watching TV, on thephone, looking at all the
(51:39):
numbers and facts and figuresand all the conspiracy theories
and, and, of course, a god bed.
Wherever attained midnight,half, one, whatever time I can
either walk off from doors andon the sofa, I decided that I
don't enough of walking inorder. And then kind of wake up
when the wave came in, in themorning. And we'd see each other
for maybe an hour associate,obviously, and spend time with
(52:02):
kids and go to bed. And just belike, I'm just going home every
day. So So when project wingmangot going, you know, I flew
myself until I was in two orthree days a week for shifts.
And it was an element of beingselfish here. Because obviously,
Vicky was working, she wasworking a lot on night shift.
(52:24):
And she was driving long hours.
And then I was essentially, oureldest said, Well, she just
turned 16. So we knew that wecould kind of leave them in the
house themselves, what Vickiwould be upset if sleeping, but
we knew that there was anelement of they could kind of
entertain themselves. But again,it's been a lot of
responsibility on the shouldersof her eldest daughter, which,
(52:46):
you know, she did to be fair,she took like a champ, you know,
she was really good. And helpedeach other out and so on. So,
yeah, so in one respect, Ireally did feel the benefit of
it. And as it went on, I canreduce the days a little bit.
And I tried to kind of coincideand saw that I wasn't taking
time away from the kids. Soyeah, it's been a massive thing.
(53:11):
And I've continued on, and we'vereduced days a little bit
because ofas the hospital gets back to a
little bit of normality there,there's less people coming in,
because they're busier, doingthe kind of normal day job and
thing and donations fromcompanies that I wouldn't say
they've dried up, because we'vestill got enough to get to keep
(53:32):
us going. And but again, as ourpeople get back to work as on,
some of volunteers are back towork, some of them have lost
jobs, gain jobs in othersectors, you know, so they can't
volunteer anymore. But, and butit's still going and
independent. Obviously, I'm sureEmma's going to cover this as
well. But just to kind of getout there as well, what what
wingman is doing name is theself wingman wheels foundation.
(53:56):
And what are is basicallythey're the initiative to find a
double decker bus, it's beingmade out inside. And then I'm a
big canopy that opens up on theside with fencing that goes
around and what we're going todo is we're going to drive the
length and breadth of the UK andthe planners at the minute
(54:18):
they've got a year. And they'reaiming to raise enough money to
keep them going for at least afull year, which includes the
initial purchase and for thisbus. And what they'll do is each
area, they're going to call upontheir volunteers from our area
to see if they can cover a kindof two or three day period and
(54:38):
do what I call these pop uplunges. You know so so from
starting off as our and athought process of and again, I
am going to more detail but Ihave a few loans in London, it's
gone from that to over five anda half 1000 volunteers that
they've got available on theirdatabase scattered soon. All of
you And including direct mail.
(55:01):
And you know, there's a loansbeing sent out there this week
as we speak. And Estonia hasbeen set up, you know, so it's,
it's very much a response toCOVID, but in the hope that it
will be a long term thing. Andto, to, you know, to, to kind of
show the appreciation to the NHSwhat they do all year, and not
(55:24):
just not just through COVID. Andobviously, it's been in response
to COVID. But they're, I thinkthey're very much the long term
plan as to how it will be anongoing thing.
Dave Rogers (55:34):
People helping people, it's a beautiful thing.
Mike Burgess (55:37):
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what it is. Yeah.
Dave Rogers (55:42):
It's, you know, I feel as though if we were if we
were going to continue thisconversation, I wonder if this
kind of side of you where you'verealised that you've got help
from it, but also had a greatamount from helping people. I
wonder why that's one of thereasons why you want to be an
airline pilot, because that isthat the sort of helping people
get to where they need to be andall of that, but that is a deep
(56:04):
psychological dive. So I'm goingto put a pin in that right now.
Mike Burgess (56:08):
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
It's definitely Yeah, it is adefinite kind of connecting
people with other people. Ithink the main aspect of it has,
and I think the biggest loss ifthe the way that things go, you
know, if it was to endprematurely, and I think the who
would feel the biggest losses asrecommend weights, because I
(56:32):
don't have that uniform to wearanymore.
Dave Rogers (56:39):
Oh, my goodness me.
Right. I think that is a greatplace to end this episode of the
pilot based podcast. Mike, thankyou so much for that. It's been
great to well not just find outabout your story, but sort of
get exactly how much you lovebeing a pilot and how much it
(57:02):
means to you. It's it's great tohear and I really hope that
comes across to the listenerswhen they listen to it because
it's a hell of a story, mate.
Thank you for sharing it withus.
Mike Burgess (57:12):
Now, thanks very much. It's been it's been a
pleasure. I enjoy talking aboutit. And then when I talk about
it, so hopefully, that's comeacross as well. Good, man. Thank
you. pleasure
Ben Hall (57:22):
as always. Thanks for listening to the pilot eyes
podcast. We'll be back next weekwith another great guest from
the aviation industry. Don'tforget to check out our new
career platform at pilot a.comand all the socials at pilot
base HQ. If you enjoyed thispodcast Don't forget to
subscribe and rice review
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