January 31, 2021 • 46 mins
Former British Airways Flight Attendant, Suzie McKee talks to us about how she made the transition from cabin to cockpit. Suzie has just completed her flying training and is entering a turbulent post-virus aviation industry. Suzie tells us how she got to this point in her career and where she plans to go in the future.
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Ben Hall (00:06):
Hello, and welcome to the pilot based podcast. I'm Ben
and I've been a pilot for over adecade.
Dave Rogers (00:11):
And I'm Dave categorically not a pilot.
Ben Hall (00:14):
Every Monday we'll be chatting to both pilots and non
pilots with amazing aviationstories from all around the
world. You can find all episodesof the pilot based podcast for
free wherever you get yourpodcasts. If you like what
you're hearing, subscribe to ourchannel and leave us a review.
Dave Rogers (00:28):
In Episode Two We meet Susie McKee, from cabin
crew to cockpit Suzy is a newlyqualified commercial pilot
entering the industry in a postCOVID world. Now pilots, you are
Boeing or an Airbus kind ofperson non pilots, pick a side I
firmly on the fence bens on oneside, Suzie's on the other. And
(00:51):
here she has to tell us why.
Suzie, Hello, thank you verymuch for joining us. How are
you? Where are you?
Suzie McKee (01:00):
Good. Thank you.
I'm in Portsmouth south ofEngland at the moment. So a bit
of a grey day but England foryou.
Dave Rogers (01:07):
You want to get yourself up to North London at
the sun is cracking the flagshere. Just not true. It's
absolutely freezing. Ben, howare you?
Ben Hall (01:15):
I'm very well. Thanks, Dave. How are you? Your side?
Dave Rogers (01:18):
Yeah, really good.
Look, really looking forward tothis to this conversation?
Actually, I'm so down inPortsmouth at the moment. Susie,
how much flying? You're doing?
Suzie McKee (01:27):
absolutely zero.
Ben Hall (01:29):
Just like the rest of the aviation world.
Suzie McKee (01:32):
I mean, I graduated school only three weeks ago now.
So haven't had quite anopportunity to job properly just
yet.
Dave Rogers (01:40):
How did you celebrate graduating?
Suzie McKee (01:43):
I came back into lockdown, actually. So I had
some champagne around the fireof the family. But it's as good
as it gets at the moment, isn'tit?
Dave Rogers (01:54):
I'll be honest with you. That actually sounds
amazing. Yeah, I mean, myclosest thing to that is having
a cup of coffee with the centralheating on so you'll definitely
live in the highlife down therein Portsmouth. So where shall we
shall we start with it? I tellyou what, let's start right at
the very beginning. So there'sso much to talk about today. How
(02:15):
much did aviation or being apilot or just being in the sky
in general feature for you as ayoungster? Like what are your
first memories of falling inlove with it? If you're like,
Suzie McKee (02:27):
I think I was quite young when I started travelling.
My family's half American. Sowe've always been to and from
the States. And I think it gotto a point when I was about
seven or eight where I used tobe way more excited to even get
on the plane than to get to thestates. So that's probably my
earliest memory of aviation. Ithink my mom said, I've been on
(02:48):
a plane since I was nine weeksold. I've had a bit to do with
planes, but I don't come from aparticularly aviation orientated
family. So it was something Idiscovered on my own really.
Ben Hall (03:00):
That is one thing with pilots. There's a lot of
aviation families. So the vastmajority of the pilots, I know
they've at least got an uncle orsomebody in aviation to kind of
show them the path.
Dave Rogers (03:12):
So you you haven't you're not from an aviation
family or you know, oh, this isgreat. I've got to you on one
call. So at what point did youthink well, I can make a career
out of this?
Suzie McKee (03:27):
I think it was sort of during my a level time. Even
though you do the generic likewhere do you want to be when
you're 25 quiz, and my back as aleisure centre owner. But that's
not for me. Yeah, I was veryconfused, started looking at
other options. And then I wastorn between midwifery and
(03:49):
aviation, which again hasnothing to do with each other.
And so kept my options very opensort of through school through
uni. And it was after uni whereI was like, I can pursue this
now.
Dave Rogers (04:00):
To be fair Leisure Centre owner like is that an
independent? I was just thoughtit was the council. Yeah, well,
he
Suzie McKee (04:07):
Nika staff is like
Dave Rogers (04:10):
a it's a it's a long career. Anything's
possible. So you you went youwent to uni then what did you
study?
Suzie McKee (04:16):
Spanish and Italian again? Nothing. Steve aviation
Dave Rogers (04:20):
credibly handy though. That
Ben Hall (04:22):
will come in very useful.
Dave Rogers (04:25):
When you when you do your addresses to us a slight
in cattle class in the back. Doyou ever do them in Spanish in
Italian?
Suzie McKee (04:34):
I actually did do one on a I hadn't got to Madrid
there and back on a triple sevenwhen I was working as cabin
crew. And I asked me to do thePA and I was terrified. Looking
at me, she say
Dave Rogers (04:50):
she's did cuz I'm one of the I'm one of the worst
fliers and I'm sure I get hauledover the coals for this but when
the addresses are happening fromcabin crew When the safety
announcements at the beginning,I've usually got my my
headphones snuck in and my hoodup so I can't get hold off and I
don't pay a lot of attention.
I'm so sorry. But do you still?
(05:10):
Well, you don't obviously nowbecause you're a pilot, but the
cabin crew still use thetelephone.
Suzie McKee (05:16):
Oh, yeah.
Ben Hall (05:18):
Pilots do as well.
Dave.
Dave Rogers (05:21):
Stop it.
Ben Hall (05:22):
Yeah. So I had an incident once so you can do it
over the headset. But you've gotit right. You can have a bit of
finger trouble because you'vegot to like, hold certain
buttons down. And once I gave awhole cabin announcement to
Baghdad control
Suzie McKee (05:37):
last month worst Yeah.
Dave Rogers (05:43):
How long until they brought it in and said, Well, he
Ben Hall (05:46):
kept it on VHF because it's like a one way directional
thing. I finished this likethree minute thing. And it was
like my fifth flight orsomething. So I'd written it all
down. I was reading it verbatim.
And then I like release thething. And Baghdad controller
just like, thanks for thatswitch tower.
Dave Rogers (06:10):
Just spend the rest of the flight sweating with
embarrassment. Yeah, exactly. So
Ben Hall (06:13):
the safest thing to do in the cockpit is we have a
little phone as well. So justpick that up, pay on a phone.
Dave Rogers (06:20):
Amazing. I love that that literally the height
of technology that can transporthundreds of people safely from
one country to the next 10 milesin the sky. And you've got a
hard wired landline. Amazingstuff. Right? So anyway, I want
to sort of rush through this bitso we can get into the nitty
(06:40):
gritty. through university youfinish you get your languages
degree incredible. Was cabincrew, your your first job out of
uni that?
Suzie McKee (06:51):
Yeah, well, actually, I found myself working
in mot garriage for six months,which I've had a rocky part
Ben Hall (07:01):
about the Italian and Spanish was useful for that as
well.
Suzie McKee (07:04):
I mean, there's lots of Spanish in, in the
Portsmouth area. No, it was a itwas a good gap between finishing
like academically and then likestarting my job as cap increase
bonus, it was just stay at homefor a bit, recuperate from the
exam stress at university, getmyself together and then move up
to London.
Dave Rogers (07:25):
Was it always cabin crew that you wanted to do? Or
did you think straightaway, Iwant to be a pilot, I can be a
pilot, it was
Suzie McKee (07:32):
my step into pilot school. For me. I like I said,
where I don't have the sort ofaviation influence within my
family, I needed to force my wayin. So I use my time as cabin
crew as like my stepping stoneto get me in a position where I
had something to sort of presentin an interview with potential
(07:53):
sponsors and pilot school. Isthat a traditionally trodden
path, then, I think it'sactually quite a done thing. Now
a lot of crew I know socially,girls, especially become pilots
or going into pilot school overthe last year. And I do think
it's like an easy way to get inif you if you don't have that
exposure to begin with. And alsoyou sort of fall in love with
(08:15):
it. A lot of cabin crew willstart and they think I'm having
a lovely time. But there'ssomething that other side of
that door. And that's where thatthat sort of the interest grows
from.
Dave Rogers (08:25):
I've asked this question earlier than I thought
I was going to, but I thinkyou're both gonna have different
answers to this. I'll start withyou, Susie. Should all pilots as
part of their basic traininghave to do a period as cabin
crew?
Unknown (08:42):
Yes. Then
Ben Hall (08:48):
I wouldn't do the cabin. I'm six
Dave Rogers (08:50):
foot five. Your silence. Your silence is
deafening on this bed.
Suzie McKee (08:54):
Well, I know he.
Ben Hall (08:56):
Actually Dave No, I do. So I will say yes. Okay, and
the reason for that is just toget a better appreciation of
what's going on and back becauseas pilots, you're applying all
sorts of stuff like that, butalso you manage the cabin. And a
(09:17):
lot of people have absolutely noidea realistically what's going
on, Kevin. I mean, you send thefirst officer back to make a
coffee. And he's back in thecabin for about half an hour
dodging buttons, wastingeverything in the galley until
all cabin crew comes over andcleans everything up. Get
someone to call.
Dave Rogers (09:39):
No, I just so I know that some some companies
when they put when they hiregraduates, they make them do
every job pretty much in the inthe company before they give
them the whatever managementrole they're qualifying for. I
just think to give you a to giveyou a rounded view of what
actually goes on on the flight.
I think doing a little period incabin crew would do you good.
Ben Hall (10:04):
I agree.
Suzie McKee (10:05):
I think that's great. Yeah,
Dave Rogers (10:08):
I thought you know, you know what, Ben? I don't know
whether it's the pressure ofhaving a former member of cabin
crew who's now a pilot on thecourt. I, I thought you were
gonna say no, I thought you weregonna flat out refuse.
Ben Hall (10:19):
I think I'd be a terrible asset and be not enjoy
it. But I think it probablywould be beneficial.
Dave Rogers (10:28):
If you always enjoy it, Susie,
Suzie McKee (10:31):
it was definitely a job of highs and lows.
Dave Rogers (10:36):
Good bits, then.
Well,
Suzie McKee (10:38):
it's sold as a very glamorous job. If you look
online, you go back in, like allthrough history. And it was a
very sort of high end elegantrole. But no one tells you that
you're going to be sat in thejump seat for it. And with a cup
of tea, hating every second.
(11:00):
Yeah, I mean, the best thingswere literally I could go for
breakfast in one country lunch,another in dinner and another in
a couple of days, which was itthat side of it is glamorous.
But it is the early mornings,the clearing up the mess of the
cabin, and people poking youshouting. You can't get paid
enough for that.
Dave Rogers (11:19):
No. And the latest, the latest one is, I was on a
short haul flight to Italy acouple of months ago. And one
there was one member of cabincrew with a piece of paper and a
pen. Because you can't queue forthe for the loo now so they were
making a list of people's namesand seat numbers and forming the
queue for the toilet and thengoing and letting people know
(11:42):
when it was their turn to go.
Ben Hall (11:44):
That's that's probably not in the job description
Suzie McKee (11:47):
right now.
Dave Rogers (11:50):
No, not at all. So you became cabin crew with a
wish or a dream or a vision thatyou were going to be doing that
for a finite amount of time. Andthen you were going to become a
pilot.
Suzie McKee (12:04):
I gave myself a year originally. Okay. And then
I sort of didn't quite realisehow long the process takes to
get the right flight school toget the right programme for you.
So I use another year so thattwo years in the end, but every
minute was perfect exposure tohelp me get to where I wanted to
be so
Dave Rogers (12:26):
so how long were you cabin crew before you
actually embarked on the pilottraining? Or? actually did were
you doing any flying by you werestill cabin crew.
Suzie McKee (12:38):
I've never flown before I went to flight school.
risky. Okay.
Ben Hall (12:51):
I just went through.
Suzie McKee (12:53):
Yeah, I mean, a lot of people, especially when we
started getting into the smalleraircrafts or single engine
training, we were warned aboutthe potential of not enjoying
it. Because if you haven't hadthe chance to experience flight
in a small aircraft, you justmight hate it. That's why I've
come this far now. I can't hateit surely.
Dave Rogers (13:13):
And I know that you and I have talked about this
band, you almost the moneybecomes a byproduct. You know,
it's gonna cost a lot of moneyto train to be a pilot and it's
it's a dream job for so manypeople. But just to get that
far, I'd imagine you've put afair amount of money down
already. Imagine you've paid allthat money. It's been your dream
for however long, then the firsttime you take it off, you're
(13:34):
like, Nah, not for me, lads.
don't fancy it
Suzie McKee (13:38):
happens. I've heard it.
Ben Hall (13:40):
Yeah, I know. Some people have started with Flying
Training. They got air sick.
They didn't really like the sortof pressures involved in it. And
they just gave up after sort offive hours of flying.
Dave Rogers (13:56):
Did you love it straightaway? Susie?
Suzie McKee (13:59):
Yeah, definitely.
It was something I hadn't everfelt before. And especially when
you start to fly on your own.
Like the powers. Is there equal?
Dave Rogers (14:10):
power at the point?
Yeah, yeah, it is. It is power,isn't it? Yeah.
Ben Hall (14:14):
It's a real like sense of freedom at first solo flight
you do? You kind of take off andyou look beside you and nobody's
sitting there and you're justlike, Okay.
Dave Rogers (14:26):
How did you choose your training school?
Suzie McKee (14:29):
So I sort of had it in my head that I was in a quite
a contra position in my cabincrew role. And I knew that I was
a hard worker, I could probablyat least try to get on some sort
of a sponsor programme. And, andand sponsor programmes aren't
that easy to come by. But onceyou've done one of the
interviews, one of theassessment days, you get a grasp
(14:52):
of what the next one is going tobe like. So I knew that I'd had
a like, at least a small chanceof getting one so I think My
flight school through thesponsor programme ends up
getting on which was the fly B.
Dave Rogers (15:05):
And what does a sponsor programme mean?
Suzie McKee (15:09):
In the olden days, sorry, for your time that you'd
get actual financialsponsorship. So some courses
were fully sponsored, some mightbe part sponsored. My
sponsorship just meant that onceI'd finish the training
required, I should get the jobwith the airline that sponsored
(15:32):
me.
Dave Rogers (15:33):
And that didn't go according to plan.
Suzie McKee (15:36):
Yeah, rest in peace to fly v. Know, I mean, I'm
still very lucky because thatsponsor programme, although it
didn't end up how I wanted it toit got me to be at the school,
which I really enjoyed on acourse which is hopefully going
to get me on to the jets in thenear future. So all the journey.
Ben Hall (15:57):
Potential with flybys, you know, it's possibly getting
resurrected. Is there anypotential of getting back picked
up by them? Or is that completeright off now, do you know,
Suzie McKee (16:08):
we've had the chat with the head of training and
someone in terms I think theywere like, I actually can't
remember who it was someone infly B or the old fly B that had
sort of a pic of pilots at thetime. And where they said they
had like a list of our names. Soit's potential that we could get
picked up by them. But where wefind ourselves now there was six
(16:29):
of us that this affected, wewere on an MPL originally. And
so the MPL meant that we wereobviously tied to fly B to
finish or to get the atpl after1500 hours. And once fly B went
under the school support ustransferring to an atpl. So
we've got, I don't know, likesix to 10 courses who were
(16:51):
already pilots that fly B, who'sstill on the MPL because they
haven't achieved their 1500hours. So obviously, in my head,
at least, they're going to getthe call up before someone like
us
Ben Hall (17:01):
just described to Dave because Dave has zero knowledge
of what an MPL is, versus atpl.
Suzie McKee (17:09):
Yeah. So the MPL, in the nutshell, is very much
like airline orientated. So anairline chooses you to go onto
an MPL and you have to finishthat NPR licence of the airline.
So my NPL in my flight schoolwas not very many flying hours
(17:31):
in terms of single engineplanes, a couple on the twin
engine planes, but most of yourhours are done in 737 simulator,
so they're gearing you up to getstraight on the line straight
away flying those those planesfor the airline. And your MPL
becomes an atpl after 1500 hoursof an airline, whereas now I
(17:52):
have a frozen atpl which means Ican take my licence to any
airline I want to go to I canfly with them and once I get my
1500 hours as I would have MPLmy atpl becomes unfrozen if that
makes any sense till
Dave Rogers (18:08):
the one chooses the wizard, Mr. Potter so how many
hours
Suzie McKee (18:15):
Am I on now?
Dave Rogers (18:16):
Yeah.
Suzie McKee (18:18):
Like, I've got enough my first meet up, I don't
remember. I think I've got 150actual flying hours. And my
seminar has taken over. I think
Ben Hall (18:27):
it's 200 and today, we're going into civil aviation
licencing requirements. Now thatis a wormhole.
Dave Rogers (18:32):
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, it's we are very much
making ourselves a niche podcastif we go if we go into that, how
to talk to me about simulatorsthat and because in previous
episodes, we've sort of brushedon them and the fact that
simulators themselves haveinstructors, how close are they
(18:53):
to the real thing? Obviously,the Jeopardy is is a great deal.
Oh, but do you get a good feelfor flying from the simulator
experience?
Suzie McKee (19:03):
I mean, in terms of the jet, so I can't really
comment I've never flown but itdoes feel very real in all the
scenarios you're you're facedwith although you wouldn't
expect have a decompressionpilot incapacitation, you know,
one engine out landing, once westarted sort of getting those
done, it does feel like yourstress levels are rising when
(19:24):
you know you're getting certainemergencies like you probably
would experience in a in a realplane. But if we go back to like
the smaller Sims, they don'teven move, you just sit in a
seat, it gets dry, you know.
Dave Rogers (19:43):
All of those things sound absolutely terrifying by
the way.
Suzie McKee (19:47):
It gets trained, God knows all about
Ben Hall (19:50):
that the smallest things when you like doing your
initial training, they'redesigned for more sort of quite
basic procedural aspects. Soliterally like following line
towards a radio beacon and stufflike that. Whereas once you get
in the simulator that is arealistic, it's like a really
immersive computer game. Andbecause actually, when you're
(20:13):
dealing with a lot ofemergencies, you don't you don't
look outside that much. Now thegraphics and the simulators are
very, very good. But you're notstaring out the window, a lot of
the stuff you're doing isinternal to the cockpit. And
that cockpit is a carbon copy ofwhat you'd have in real life.
Dave Rogers (20:32):
Okay, so very important then, but well, quite
simply because you're not gonna,you're not going to send a, I
don't know, 777 after costs,however many hundreds of
millions of dollars and say, oh,by the way, we're going to turn
this engine off now to give thisto give this young pilot the
experience of landing it Thatdoes sound like a very expensive
(20:53):
way of doing things. Good. Sowhat about what about the
transition between cabin crewand and pilot that I know,
you've, you've still got alittle way to go before you get
that that dream job that I hopeis just around the corner for
you? Do you think you're goingto come up against any
(21:13):
obstacles? Kind of people'sattitudes towards you?
Suzie McKee (21:17):
Yeah, I do think it's, it could be a bit of a
stigma. And I have experiencedit throughout previous
interviews as well. And you sortof turn up and they like have
been cabin crew has been sobeneficial to me, I literally
loved it. It was a fantasticjob. And it was perfect to be my
stepping stone. But sometimesit's hard for people to see past
(21:40):
the fact that you are havingcrew and saying that I received
the same training that everyoneelse has, like we're all on a
completely equal playing fieldnow. So it's up to me how I
portray myself in futureinterviews, I suppose. And if I
can do that, then I should beable to do anything.
Dave Rogers (21:59):
I'm trying to think of comparable things, obviously
the this such there's so fewindustries that are comparable
with aviation, but I rememberbeing a teenager and working on
a building site and then I don'tknow like the buildings
inspector would would turn upand they'd always have a suit on
with their hives over theirsuits and a brand new car. And
all the lads on the site wouldbe like, Oh, look at him. He's
(22:20):
never done a hard day's work inhis life. But I was just
wondering, what's therelationship like, between cabin
crew and pilots? Essentially,what to cabin crew think of
pilots, that's what I want toknow Ben blockier is?
Suzie McKee (22:36):
No, I was always a bit of like, I was called a
flight deck floozy. It was onlybecause I needed it as a
learning curve. So I wouldalways be wanting to sort of
like volunteer to do the walkaround. So before flight, the
pilot light walks around. So I'dgo and do that with the first
(22:58):
officer and the captain. I tryand get into the flight deck for
as many like takeoffs andlandings as I could. So I always
tried to have a goodrelationship with the pilots
because it was something that Ineeded to have. But there
definitely is like a cabin crewpilots stigma. I think,
(23:18):
especially if you're goingtowards some of the more archaic
airlines and archaic pilots,there's sometimes a bit of Lost
in Translation chat that goeson, we have crew buses, so we
take the crew bus from theterminal to the plane or from
the airport to where we'resaying when we're in a different
(23:39):
city. And you can definitelytell that the pilots will sit at
the very front, you know,headphones on on the iPads and
the crew organising drinks at6pm.
Dave Rogers (23:49):
And do you think with with regards to flight deck
floozy and obviously you wereincredibly keen to learn, do you
think those intentions may havebeen misinterpreted
Suzie McKee (24:03):
amongst the crew everything I did in the flight
deck was like only everprofessional, I've literally
learned so much from evenspending 10 minutes taking a cup
of tea in the middle of thenight, for example. So it was it
was definitely a tool that I useto help me get where I am now.
Dave Rogers (24:21):
And Ben, what two pilots think of cabin crew. I
think you know what pilots isprobably
Ben Hall (24:32):
it really depends on the mindset of the of the
pilots. The whole feeling forthe flight starts within the
first like 10 seconds. When thecaptain kind of says hello to
the crew. You can really get thesense of right this is gonna be
a good flight or a bad flight.
And if that report is not therestraight away, hardly anyone
(24:52):
will come visit you. You canhave like a 12 hour flight and
Because Kevin crew in mostairlines have to check up on the
pilots every half an hour justto make sure there's no medical
issues and they're awake and youknow, everything's fine. But
they can do that by physicallycoming into the cockpit or by
(25:13):
giving you a call on a landline,if there's a bad start to the
flight, that's all you get. It'sa everything right? Yeah,
cheers. Butare you really so it's a
nightmare when you when you'vegot a captain, who gives it like
(25:33):
a really bad first impression.
You're just like this, it kindof taints you with the same
brush. Because nobody wants tocome visit. And everyone kind of
thinks that they speak to you,then they're going to have to
speak to the captain, so I'mgoing to risk it.
Dave Rogers (25:54):
But is that something Ben that as you
develop to become a captain? Isthat something that you're going
to be very aware of?
Ben Hall (26:01):
And I think, honestly, it's got a lot lot better. It
tends to be just the real tailend of the the old cohort, where
it's kind of the captain is theboss and nobody can say anything
against them. I mean, 99% ofpilots now are very good in my
opinion. Yeah, but the cabincrew thinks funny because I
(26:24):
spoke to a cabin crew memberwho's been flying for like 35
years never visited the cockpitin a while actually just was not
interested. She's more thanhappy to sit down the back
having a chat. And I just couldnot fathom that but each their
(26:46):
own right.
Dave Rogers (26:48):
Well, I think that just shows the different reasons
that people get into the job,isn't it? Yeah. But you You must
have met some incrediblecharacters as a as a member of
cabin crew.
Suzie McKee (27:01):
I think crew themselves they say it takes a
certain type of person to becabin crew. And that you do meet
some of them best people aresome of the worst people. So it
is very much it's a mess. Youget a couple that will refuse to
conform. You get a couple thatwant to talk all night get a
couple that fall asleep all theway. It is definitely a
(27:24):
character character game andcabin crew.
Dave Rogers (27:26):
You need a work ethic. They don't yeah.
Suzie McKee (27:29):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. You need the work ethic and the body
clock for it. There is a twomajor things.
Dave Rogers (27:37):
Yeah, just just the amount of time you spend on your
feet.
Suzie McKee (27:42):
I think my I think my absolute most I ever did was
I think I did 20 420 404,000sorry. Yeah, in one flight. I
think it was a Bangkok orsomething where you're
constantly giving out a bit.
Dave Rogers (28:00):
I think that's about 12. k,
Suzie McKee (28:02):
up and down constantly, but startling.
Dave Rogers (28:07):
That's astonishing.
Unknown (28:09):
Yeah.
Dave Rogers (28:11):
Well, so Well, that's the thing. I mean, now
you're a pilot. You just gonnabe sat on your ass the whole
time.
Suzie McKee (28:17):
I can't wait.
Dave Rogers (28:21):
Ah, Susie?
Suzie McKee (28:23):
Yes.
Dave Rogers (28:24):
What's the dream?
Suzie McKee (28:26):
A 787. Long Haul from London. Okay. Yeah, I think
people say you're either anAirbus or Boeing person. And
there's a lot of rivalry betweenthe two. I mean, we've got our
very own Airbus man there aswell. But I feel I'm going to be
(28:48):
a Boeing go.
Dave Rogers (28:50):
Why Boeing?
Suzie McKee (28:53):
Well, this is where the Airbus people try and stay
out, sell the fact that they geta drop down table. That
realistically, it's not allabout furniture. I just think I
really like the feeling of theBoeing and I've been mostly on
Boeing that only Airbus is I'vealready done that the smaller
(29:13):
ones as in flown as crew. And Iwant to fly the big jets. And I
think the 787 has a very nicefeel to it.
Dave Rogers (29:21):
Ben, why Airbus?
Ben Hall (29:24):
It's the future, Dave.
The future it looks off to youand it's nice and comfortable.
And we do have a table fordinner. We're not heathens, we
don't eat dinner on our laps.
Right? The difference is thatthey're both essentially the
(29:44):
same. Boeing has got like acontrol yoke, right. So it's got
like a steering wheel. And it'sconsidered a bit more of a
pilot's plane because you can,it's like a bit more
conventional so you can feel theflying whereas an Airbus has a
little sense. joystick and callit a side stick. It's got no
mechanical connectionswhatsoever. It's just a computer
(30:05):
signal sent backwards. And it'sgot some like artificial
feedback. So you can kind offeel a bit of pressure. But it's
all it's a lot more about justknowing what you're doing rather
than feeling the flight.
Suzie McKee (30:21):
So Ben's over there playing Mario Kart.
Dave Rogers (30:27):
I love this Boeing VFS banter is gonna be perhaps
my favourite feature of thispodcast series.
Unknown (30:40):
Feeling as well.
Dave Rogers (30:43):
So think things aren't as you as anyone wants
them to be in the aviationindustry in the moment, whether
it's pilots, whether it's cabincrew, whether it's people like
me, who are just frequenttravellers who are desperate to,
to get back to work in othercountries, how patient Are you
willing to be Susy with regardsto getting in the cockpit and,
(31:04):
and actually becoming the pilotthat you want to be?
Suzie McKee (31:08):
Well, personally, I am impatient, very impatient. I
mean, I've worked what I feelhas been for years to get to
this point now. And I'm where Idid originally have that job
offer. When I started mytraining, it's all been a bit of
an anticlimax, finishing and notsure where to go from here. So
(31:30):
I'm giving myself a year to twoyears. And Pilot School is an
absolute slog, the best 20months, but it is so difficult,
so difficult. So really havingthis time for us by now is
actually quite important, Ithink. And yeah, we'll start the
job hunt, probably towards theend of 2021.
Ben Hall (31:53):
Do you plan on doing any sort of, like aircraft
flying or anything to keep yourhand in? Or do you just gonna
put on pause for the time being,
Suzie McKee (32:00):
I mean, I'm down in South Coast, I'm quite close to
certain airports, there's acouple of small flight schools
pop over to Bournemouth way,like there's definitely options
around and I got a single enginerating as well. And when I was
doing my, my programme of flightschool, so I do have the ability
to go and fly the smaller planesif I want to, I definitely will
(32:22):
try and do at least an hour amonth. I think that so
expensive. Like I think that'dbe all I can really do for now.
And I've considered getting aflight instructor certification
as well. So a couple of options,
Dave Rogers (32:35):
staying busy, just going back to having that
suppose guaranteed job, and thenit being taken away? What kind
of psychological impact did thathave?
Suzie McKee (32:47):
You think, more than anything, it was just a
very stressful situation, I heldout longer than I hoped to get
that first like flying schoolrole. Because it was first once
a programme with with a sort ofguarantee of that job at the
end. So it was extremelydisheartening. But
realistically, I've now come outwith a licence that's a lot more
(33:11):
applicable for, for the sort ofindustry now. And I've come out
with a commercial pilot'slicence instrument rating and a
single and multi engine rating,none of which I would have come
out if I'd done the otherlicence. So I'm definitely
better placed than I would havebeen. But I don't have the job.
Dave Rogers (33:33):
Plenty of time for that. It's really interesting
hearing you talk about thingslike that, because it's just not
something I'd consider the factthat you are both qualified
pilots is, is just so far beyondanything that my, my tiny little
brain could could evencomprehend. But then when you
break it down, you make it soundso functional. It's like, right,
(33:55):
I've got this licence and thisrating and got these stamps on
my card and stuff like that.
There are there are so many ofthese boxes that need to be
ticked, so many of these teststhat that need to be passed. I
mean, it is an incredibly cooljob. But there are a lot of well
boxes that you need to take itas it is quite functional in
terms of its format, isn't it?
Suzie McKee (34:16):
Yeah, definitely. I think, obviously, aviation, the
first role is safety. So havingto go through all of these
tests, although it's stressful,and it was super testing, it's
all for the main reason. Soyou're happy to do so.
Ben Hall (34:32):
And it's just constantly I mean, with most
jobs, you kind of do thetraining at the beginning, and
then you like do the role thatyou've been trained for. Whereas
obviously, you do that inpiloting. But I mean, the
absolute minimum you have to doas an airline pilot is a test
every six months. And that's twodays of four hour blocks in the
sim with engines blowing up anddecompressions and gas masks on
(34:57):
and all sorts of stuff. Andthat's about the Easiest, you're
going to get to concentrating
Dave Rogers (35:06):
with regards to your path to Z. And if you could
rewind, however, a number ofyears to when you finished
university, would you take thesame path to becoming a
qualified pilot now,
Suzie McKee (35:19):
I think if I'd have had a bigger interest in
aviation before that if I'd seenit as an actual feasible career
path, but rather than theleisure centre manager, I
probably would have tried tohave gotten into, say, the Air
Squadron at university. Idefinitely attended air shows
before. I've been aroundairfields. And I've been to a
(35:43):
lot of flight school open days.
But if I'd have done all that,let's say the two years earlier,
without my cabin crew stint, Iwouldn't have the knowledge that
I do from being the other sideof the door. But I would
probably potentially be sort ofa couple of 100 hours down now
in a job. So timing hasn't beenmy friend. But I do think that
(36:05):
the path I did take was the bestfor me at the time.
Dave Rogers (36:11):
And would you would you recommend cabin crew as a
job for anybody?
Suzie McKee (36:16):
Yeah, definitely. I recommend it all the time.
There's so many people that aresort of stuck in retail, you
know, stuck in the in the dayjob that isn't quite giving them
what they want. And the mainrole of cabin crew, apart from
safety, is having the confidenceto be in front of people, you
have to have that outgoingnature. And you have to be able
(36:38):
to deal with a lot of issues youdon't want to deal with. But you
do that and retail, things likethat anyway. And if you want to
do all that, alongsidetravelling the world for free,
and I don't understand whypeople don't go for it more
often.
Dave Rogers (36:55):
Is it competitive?
though? I can't imagine it'sthat easy to just get a cabin
crew job.
Suzie McKee (37:00):
I think there's a couple of like, difficulties. To
get into the role, you have tobe a certain height for
starters. And same for pilot,you have to be between two
height ranges. And there's adifferent set for boys and girls
as well, which is always a bitodd. Yeah, so a lot of people
I've heard, who want to be cabincrew failed the first hurdle
(37:21):
because they've lied about theirheight. Yeah, they test your
reach, which is basically so ifyou were to be holding on to one
of the handles of the doors, andyou had to pull the manual
inflation handle of a slide, youhave to be able to reach it. So
that's tested
Dave Rogers (37:40):
for different heights for men and women that
that that winds me up. To befair, Ben, you must be right on
the cusp, because you'remassive. Yeah, I
Ben Hall (37:47):
think nobody's has checked to be honest.
Dave Rogers (37:52):
But the different heights for men and women. I
mean, we were at risk oftravelling down a massive
wormhole here, but I don't knowif either of you have read
invisible women. But the factthat when they test airbags with
crash test dummies, they do itbased on the average weight of a
man not a woman. So if you're ina car crash, then a woman is
more likely to die than a man.
Suzie McKee (38:14):
That's really good news. Thank you. Well,
Dave Rogers (38:16):
you know, it's a it's a Tuesday morning. I just
thought I'd send you into theweek with a smile on your face.
But yeah, it is. I'm sure thereis I'm sure there are decisions
made by people far above mypaygrade that have that have
decided the reasons behind that.
But it does seem a strange one.
So but you You are right, youwere tall enough or short
enough. I vaguely remember yearsago reading that. There. There
(38:41):
was a brief but ill fated airWales that flew out of Cardiff
Wales airport. And don't ask meto tell you what planes they
were but they were very smalland quite rickety old boats. And
the cabin crew had to be smallerthan normal cabin crew because
otherwise they'd just beendragging their heads against the
(39:02):
ceiling the entire time. So theyjust think they just went
searching the hills and thevalleys for the for the shortest
women they could find andoffered them. I wonder where
whales even flew to? I've neverheard about it. Well, it was it
was early 2000s it was an I'donly heard of it because I was a
(39:22):
big rugby supporter and theysponsored the sprays.
Ben Hall (39:26):
Cardiff to Holyhead lovely
Dave Rogers (39:28):
cards are the big one over the water over the
water tier right you've gotoffers dike Do you and Ben to
you, when you're giving the sortof Route plan out the route plan
what am I the a website when youwhen you're when you're telling
(39:53):
the the passengers where we'regoing to go and it's like our so
we'll be we'll be coming overthe channel and then we'll be
going over Swindon and followingthe M four corridor up, do you
give those kinds ofinstructions?
Ben Hall (40:04):
Do I give them?
Dave Rogers (40:06):
Yeah, well, so I quite like it. I quite like it
when the pilot does that whenthey essentially tell you that
really depends how
Ben Hall (40:13):
much time you've got at the beginning of the flight,
and how lazy you're being. Sowe've got a couple of like a few
elements that we have to includein a PA, which are mainly safety
based. And then everything elseis kind of at your discretion.
So if you're, if you're in a bitof a rush, and you know things
going a little bit wrong, thenprobably just scrap
Dave Rogers (40:35):
it. But why don't you tell us the cruising speed
and the altitude because wethink people are interested in
it. Okay, so it is quite, Imean, I generally am but that
is, it's literally because ofpast. Yeah, there's
Ben Hall (40:48):
a lot of people that really are interested. I mean,
we have sort of, yeah, planespotters, and just enthusiasts
come into the cockpit after theflight and a lot of them nerds.
I've had people come in, andthey've got little logbooks of
every flight they've ever taken.
And they want to know the roots.
(41:09):
They want to know the cruisingspeed. They want to know the
altitude, they want to know.
Your tail number everything.
Dave Rogers (41:15):
I love it. I absolutely love it. You probably
don't
Suzie McKee (41:21):
let them wear your hat.
Ben Hall (41:22):
Well, it makes me feel a bit bad because they're more
interested in it than I am.
Dave Rogers (41:27):
That's a great question. Actually. Susie, I
don't know if you heard that,then would you ever let them
wear your hat?
Ben Hall (41:33):
Yeah, so I've let a lot of kids wear my hat.
Dave Rogers (41:38):
What's the cutoff like 14? How we
Ben Hall (41:41):
probably push it to sort of 15. But above that, it
just starts getting a bit weird.
Dave Rogers (41:48):
Yeah. Yeah. Have you got your hat Susie?
Suzie McKee (41:53):
I don't have a hat.
I used to have my cabin crewhat. I sat on it. Yeah, I use
the hat box as well. And I usedto use that to like, transport
either easter eggs or bananas.
In a cheesecake factorycheesecake books.
Dave Rogers (42:19):
Susie, I suppose the final question is, have you
got any advice? For people whoare who are thinking about
becoming a pilot, I think it'sincredible that both you and Ben
have mentioned that you're notfrom aviation families. So this
is something that you've doneoff your own bat, you find your
own route in. And I really,really hope that in the not too
(42:39):
distant future, everything comesto fruition, and you get the job
that you want and the job thatyou deserve. But have you got
any advice for those people whoWell, I suppose want to be a
pilot, but have those doubts, itjust seems like something that's
so far away from?
Suzie McKee (42:55):
Yeah, it definitely at the moment, especially is
like very much a distance or fora lot of people. Um, but I would
just say the most exposure youcan get, like the better. So
make sure you do go to thoseopen days at all the schools
that you want to consider makesure you're going to sort of
flight demonstrations. Whenmaybe even take a sort of a
(43:18):
practice flight with aninstructor, you can get them
really cheap experience dayswise. So yeah, just try and be
as exposed to aviation, as youcan maybe even get a job in
aviation, even if it's washing aplane. And having all of these
tiny parts of like showinginterest come across really well
in an interview. And then Apartfrom that, it would just be make
(43:40):
sure that your choice isfinancially protected,
especially at the moment, it'snot the best time perhaps or
argued by some anyway to enterinto some sort of flight
training. So having your backcovered is really important at
the moment, but I hope it'sgonna be a good career. I mean,
Ben's definitely having a lovelytime. So it'll be positive in
(44:00):
the end. I'm sure.
Dave Rogers (44:01):
Ben, when was the last time you washed a plane? I
didn't hear you might but Ithink your silence is 2009 it
was 2000 not good goodness meover a decade ago. See? That's
it once you once you put thelegwork in sushi, it's easy
Street, just sit there and getserved. And all you've got to do
(44:22):
is take off and land.
Suzie McKee (44:25):
I mean, isn't it?
Dave Rogers (44:28):
Well, good luck.
Good luck, Suzy. And thank youso much for your time. This has
been a lovely, lovelyconversation. And will you make
me a promise, please? Hmm. Whenyou do get the pilot's job, and
when it does start to turn outreally well for you. You'll come
back on the podcast and tell usabout it.
Suzie McKee (44:49):
I loved it. I've had a lovely time.
Dave Rogers (44:53):
Thank you very much Susie. Look after yourself.
Ben Hall (44:58):
Thanks for listening to the pilot based podcast.
We'll be back next week withanother great guest from the
aviation industry. Don't forgetto check out our new career
platform at pilot base.com andall the socials at pilot base
HQ. If you enjoyed this podcast,don't forget to subscribe and
review
Hello, and welcome to the pilot based podcast. I'm Ben
and I've been a pilot for over adecade.
Dave Rogers (00:11):
And I'm Dave categorically not a pilot.
Ben Hall (00:14):
Every Monday we'll be chatting to both pilots and non
pilots with amazing aviationstories from all around the
world. You can find all episodesof the pilot based podcast for
free wherever you get yourpodcasts. If you like what
you're hearing, subscribe to ourchannel and leave us a review.
Dave Rogers (00:28):
In Episode Two We meet Susie McKee, from cabin
crew to cockpit Suzy is a newlyqualified commercial pilot
entering the industry in a postCOVID world. Now pilots, you are
Boeing or an Airbus kind ofperson non pilots, pick a side I
firmly on the fence bens on oneside, Suzie's on the other. And
(00:51):
here she has to tell us why.
Suzie, Hello, thank you verymuch for joining us. How are
you? Where are you?
Suzie McKee (01:00):
Good. Thank you.
I'm in Portsmouth south ofEngland at the moment. So a bit
of a grey day but England foryou.
Dave Rogers (01:07):
You want to get yourself up to North London at
the sun is cracking the flagshere. Just not true. It's
absolutely freezing. Ben, howare you?
Ben Hall (01:15):
I'm very well. Thanks, Dave. How are you? Your side?
Dave Rogers (01:18):
Yeah, really good.
Look, really looking forward tothis to this conversation?
Actually, I'm so down inPortsmouth at the moment. Susie,
how much flying? You're doing?
Suzie McKee (01:27):
absolutely zero.
Ben Hall (01:29):
Just like the rest of the aviation world.
Suzie McKee (01:32):
I mean, I graduated school only three weeks ago now.
So haven't had quite anopportunity to job properly just
yet.
Dave Rogers (01:40):
How did you celebrate graduating?
Suzie McKee (01:43):
I came back into lockdown, actually. So I had
some champagne around the fireof the family. But it's as good
as it gets at the moment, isn'tit?
Dave Rogers (01:54):
I'll be honest with you. That actually sounds
amazing. Yeah, I mean, myclosest thing to that is having
a cup of coffee with the centralheating on so you'll definitely
live in the highlife down therein Portsmouth. So where shall we
shall we start with it? I tellyou what, let's start right at
the very beginning. So there'sso much to talk about today. How
(02:15):
much did aviation or being apilot or just being in the sky
in general feature for you as ayoungster? Like what are your
first memories of falling inlove with it? If you're like,
Suzie McKee (02:27):
I think I was quite young when I started travelling.
My family's half American. Sowe've always been to and from
the States. And I think it gotto a point when I was about
seven or eight where I used tobe way more excited to even get
on the plane than to get to thestates. So that's probably my
earliest memory of aviation. Ithink my mom said, I've been on
(02:48):
a plane since I was nine weeksold. I've had a bit to do with
planes, but I don't come from aparticularly aviation orientated
family. So it was something Idiscovered on my own really.
Ben Hall (03:00):
That is one thing with pilots. There's a lot of
aviation families. So the vastmajority of the pilots, I know
they've at least got an uncle orsomebody in aviation to kind of
show them the path.
Dave Rogers (03:12):
So you you haven't you're not from an aviation
family or you know, oh, this isgreat. I've got to you on one
call. So at what point did youthink well, I can make a career
out of this?
Suzie McKee (03:27):
I think it was sort of during my a level time. Even
though you do the generic likewhere do you want to be when
you're 25 quiz, and my back as aleisure centre owner. But that's
not for me. Yeah, I was veryconfused, started looking at
other options. And then I wastorn between midwifery and
(03:49):
aviation, which again hasnothing to do with each other.
And so kept my options very opensort of through school through
uni. And it was after uni whereI was like, I can pursue this
now.
Dave Rogers (04:00):
To be fair Leisure Centre owner like is that an
independent? I was just thoughtit was the council. Yeah, well,
he
Suzie McKee (04:07):
Nika staff is like
Dave Rogers (04:10):
a it's a it's a long career. Anything's
possible. So you you went youwent to uni then what did you
study?
Suzie McKee (04:16):
Spanish and Italian again? Nothing. Steve aviation
Dave Rogers (04:20):
credibly handy though. That
Ben Hall (04:22):
will come in very useful.
Dave Rogers (04:25):
When you when you do your addresses to us a slight
in cattle class in the back. Doyou ever do them in Spanish in
Italian?
Suzie McKee (04:34):
I actually did do one on a I hadn't got to Madrid
there and back on a triple sevenwhen I was working as cabin
crew. And I asked me to do thePA and I was terrified. Looking
at me, she say
Dave Rogers (04:50):
she's did cuz I'm one of the I'm one of the worst
fliers and I'm sure I get hauledover the coals for this but when
the addresses are happening fromcabin crew When the safety
announcements at the beginning,I've usually got my my
headphones snuck in and my hoodup so I can't get hold off and I
don't pay a lot of attention.
I'm so sorry. But do you still?
(05:10):
Well, you don't obviously nowbecause you're a pilot, but the
cabin crew still use thetelephone.
Suzie McKee (05:16):
Oh, yeah.
Ben Hall (05:18):
Pilots do as well.
Dave.
Dave Rogers (05:21):
Stop it.
Ben Hall (05:22):
Yeah. So I had an incident once so you can do it
over the headset. But you've gotit right. You can have a bit of
finger trouble because you'vegot to like, hold certain
buttons down. And once I gave awhole cabin announcement to
Baghdad control
Suzie McKee (05:37):
last month worst Yeah.
Dave Rogers (05:43):
How long until they brought it in and said, Well, he
Ben Hall (05:46):
kept it on VHF because it's like a one way directional
thing. I finished this likethree minute thing. And it was
like my fifth flight orsomething. So I'd written it all
down. I was reading it verbatim.
And then I like release thething. And Baghdad controller
just like, thanks for thatswitch tower.
Dave Rogers (06:10):
Just spend the rest of the flight sweating with
embarrassment. Yeah, exactly. So
Ben Hall (06:13):
the safest thing to do in the cockpit is we have a
little phone as well. So justpick that up, pay on a phone.
Dave Rogers (06:20):
Amazing. I love that that literally the height
of technology that can transporthundreds of people safely from
one country to the next 10 milesin the sky. And you've got a
hard wired landline. Amazingstuff. Right? So anyway, I want
to sort of rush through this bitso we can get into the nitty
(06:40):
gritty. through university youfinish you get your languages
degree incredible. Was cabincrew, your your first job out of
uni that?
Suzie McKee (06:51):
Yeah, well, actually, I found myself working
in mot garriage for six months,which I've had a rocky part
Ben Hall (07:01):
about the Italian and Spanish was useful for that as
well.
Suzie McKee (07:04):
I mean, there's lots of Spanish in, in the
Portsmouth area. No, it was a itwas a good gap between finishing
like academically and then likestarting my job as cap increase
bonus, it was just stay at homefor a bit, recuperate from the
exam stress at university, getmyself together and then move up
to London.
Dave Rogers (07:25):
Was it always cabin crew that you wanted to do? Or
did you think straightaway, Iwant to be a pilot, I can be a
pilot, it was
Suzie McKee (07:32):
my step into pilot school. For me. I like I said,
where I don't have the sort ofaviation influence within my
family, I needed to force my wayin. So I use my time as cabin
crew as like my stepping stoneto get me in a position where I
had something to sort of presentin an interview with potential
(07:53):
sponsors and pilot school. Isthat a traditionally trodden
path, then, I think it'sactually quite a done thing. Now
a lot of crew I know socially,girls, especially become pilots
or going into pilot school overthe last year. And I do think
it's like an easy way to get inif you if you don't have that
exposure to begin with. And alsoyou sort of fall in love with
(08:15):
it. A lot of cabin crew willstart and they think I'm having
a lovely time. But there'ssomething that other side of
that door. And that's where thatthat sort of the interest grows
from.
Dave Rogers (08:25):
I've asked this question earlier than I thought
I was going to, but I thinkyou're both gonna have different
answers to this. I'll start withyou, Susie. Should all pilots as
part of their basic traininghave to do a period as cabin
crew?
Unknown (08:42):
Yes. Then
Ben Hall (08:48):
I wouldn't do the cabin. I'm six
Dave Rogers (08:50):
foot five. Your silence. Your silence is
deafening on this bed.
Suzie McKee (08:54):
Well, I know he.
Ben Hall (08:56):
Actually Dave No, I do. So I will say yes. Okay, and
the reason for that is just toget a better appreciation of
what's going on and back becauseas pilots, you're applying all
sorts of stuff like that, butalso you manage the cabin. And a
(09:17):
lot of people have absolutely noidea realistically what's going
on, Kevin. I mean, you send thefirst officer back to make a
coffee. And he's back in thecabin for about half an hour
dodging buttons, wastingeverything in the galley until
all cabin crew comes over andcleans everything up. Get
someone to call.
Dave Rogers (09:39):
No, I just so I know that some some companies
when they put when they hiregraduates, they make them do
every job pretty much in the inthe company before they give
them the whatever managementrole they're qualifying for. I
just think to give you a to giveyou a rounded view of what
actually goes on on the flight.
I think doing a little period incabin crew would do you good.
Ben Hall (10:04):
I agree.
Suzie McKee (10:05):
I think that's great. Yeah,
Dave Rogers (10:08):
I thought you know, you know what, Ben? I don't know
whether it's the pressure ofhaving a former member of cabin
crew who's now a pilot on thecourt. I, I thought you were
gonna say no, I thought you weregonna flat out refuse.
Ben Hall (10:19):
I think I'd be a terrible asset and be not enjoy
it. But I think it probablywould be beneficial.
Dave Rogers (10:28):
If you always enjoy it, Susie,
Suzie McKee (10:31):
it was definitely a job of highs and lows.
Dave Rogers (10:36):
Good bits, then.
Well,
Suzie McKee (10:38):
it's sold as a very glamorous job. If you look
online, you go back in, like allthrough history. And it was a
very sort of high end elegantrole. But no one tells you that
you're going to be sat in thejump seat for it. And with a cup
of tea, hating every second.
(11:00):
Yeah, I mean, the best thingswere literally I could go for
breakfast in one country lunch,another in dinner and another in
a couple of days, which was itthat side of it is glamorous.
But it is the early mornings,the clearing up the mess of the
cabin, and people poking youshouting. You can't get paid
enough for that.
Dave Rogers (11:19):
No. And the latest, the latest one is, I was on a
short haul flight to Italy acouple of months ago. And one
there was one member of cabincrew with a piece of paper and a
pen. Because you can't queue forthe for the loo now so they were
making a list of people's namesand seat numbers and forming the
queue for the toilet and thengoing and letting people know
(11:42):
when it was their turn to go.
Ben Hall (11:44):
That's that's probably not in the job description
Suzie McKee (11:47):
right now.
Dave Rogers (11:50):
No, not at all. So you became cabin crew with a
wish or a dream or a vision thatyou were going to be doing that
for a finite amount of time. Andthen you were going to become a
pilot.
Suzie McKee (12:04):
I gave myself a year originally. Okay. And then
I sort of didn't quite realisehow long the process takes to
get the right flight school toget the right programme for you.
So I use another year so thattwo years in the end, but every
minute was perfect exposure tohelp me get to where I wanted to
be so
Dave Rogers (12:26):
so how long were you cabin crew before you
actually embarked on the pilottraining? Or? actually did were
you doing any flying by you werestill cabin crew.
Suzie McKee (12:38):
I've never flown before I went to flight school.
risky. Okay.
Ben Hall (12:51):
I just went through.
Suzie McKee (12:53):
Yeah, I mean, a lot of people, especially when we
started getting into the smalleraircrafts or single engine
training, we were warned aboutthe potential of not enjoying
it. Because if you haven't hadthe chance to experience flight
in a small aircraft, you justmight hate it. That's why I've
come this far now. I can't hateit surely.
Dave Rogers (13:13):
And I know that you and I have talked about this
band, you almost the moneybecomes a byproduct. You know,
it's gonna cost a lot of moneyto train to be a pilot and it's
it's a dream job for so manypeople. But just to get that
far, I'd imagine you've put afair amount of money down
already. Imagine you've paid allthat money. It's been your dream
for however long, then the firsttime you take it off, you're
(13:34):
like, Nah, not for me, lads.
don't fancy it
Suzie McKee (13:38):
happens. I've heard it.
Ben Hall (13:40):
Yeah, I know. Some people have started with Flying
Training. They got air sick.
They didn't really like the sortof pressures involved in it. And
they just gave up after sort offive hours of flying.
Dave Rogers (13:56):
Did you love it straightaway? Susie?
Suzie McKee (13:59):
Yeah, definitely.
It was something I hadn't everfelt before. And especially when
you start to fly on your own.
Like the powers. Is there equal?
Dave Rogers (14:10):
power at the point?
Yeah, yeah, it is. It is power,isn't it? Yeah.
Ben Hall (14:14):
It's a real like sense of freedom at first solo flight
you do? You kind of take off andyou look beside you and nobody's
sitting there and you're justlike, Okay.
Dave Rogers (14:26):
How did you choose your training school?
Suzie McKee (14:29):
So I sort of had it in my head that I was in a quite
a contra position in my cabincrew role. And I knew that I was
a hard worker, I could probablyat least try to get on some sort
of a sponsor programme. And, andand sponsor programmes aren't
that easy to come by. But onceyou've done one of the
interviews, one of theassessment days, you get a grasp
(14:52):
of what the next one is going tobe like. So I knew that I'd had
a like, at least a small chanceof getting one so I think My
flight school through thesponsor programme ends up
getting on which was the fly B.
Dave Rogers (15:05):
And what does a sponsor programme mean?
Suzie McKee (15:09):
In the olden days, sorry, for your time that you'd
get actual financialsponsorship. So some courses
were fully sponsored, some mightbe part sponsored. My
sponsorship just meant that onceI'd finish the training
required, I should get the jobwith the airline that sponsored
(15:32):
me.
Dave Rogers (15:33):
And that didn't go according to plan.
Suzie McKee (15:36):
Yeah, rest in peace to fly v. Know, I mean, I'm
still very lucky because thatsponsor programme, although it
didn't end up how I wanted it toit got me to be at the school,
which I really enjoyed on acourse which is hopefully going
to get me on to the jets in thenear future. So all the journey.
Ben Hall (15:57):
Potential with flybys, you know, it's possibly getting
resurrected. Is there anypotential of getting back picked
up by them? Or is that completeright off now, do you know,
Suzie McKee (16:08):
we've had the chat with the head of training and
someone in terms I think theywere like, I actually can't
remember who it was someone infly B or the old fly B that had
sort of a pic of pilots at thetime. And where they said they
had like a list of our names. Soit's potential that we could get
picked up by them. But where wefind ourselves now there was six
(16:29):
of us that this affected, wewere on an MPL originally. And
so the MPL meant that we wereobviously tied to fly B to
finish or to get the atpl after1500 hours. And once fly B went
under the school support ustransferring to an atpl. So
we've got, I don't know, likesix to 10 courses who were
(16:51):
already pilots that fly B, who'sstill on the MPL because they
haven't achieved their 1500hours. So obviously, in my head,
at least, they're going to getthe call up before someone like
us
Ben Hall (17:01):
just described to Dave because Dave has zero knowledge
of what an MPL is, versus atpl.
Suzie McKee (17:09):
Yeah. So the MPL, in the nutshell, is very much
like airline orientated. So anairline chooses you to go onto
an MPL and you have to finishthat NPR licence of the airline.
So my NPL in my flight schoolwas not very many flying hours
(17:31):
in terms of single engineplanes, a couple on the twin
engine planes, but most of yourhours are done in 737 simulator,
so they're gearing you up to getstraight on the line straight
away flying those those planesfor the airline. And your MPL
becomes an atpl after 1500 hoursof an airline, whereas now I
(17:52):
have a frozen atpl which means Ican take my licence to any
airline I want to go to I canfly with them and once I get my
1500 hours as I would have MPLmy atpl becomes unfrozen if that
makes any sense till
Dave Rogers (18:08):
the one chooses the wizard, Mr. Potter so how many
hours
Suzie McKee (18:15):
Am I on now?
Dave Rogers (18:16):
Yeah.
Suzie McKee (18:18):
Like, I've got enough my first meet up, I don't
remember. I think I've got 150actual flying hours. And my
seminar has taken over. I think
Ben Hall (18:27):
it's 200 and today, we're going into civil aviation
licencing requirements. Now thatis a wormhole.
Dave Rogers (18:32):
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, it's we are very much
making ourselves a niche podcastif we go if we go into that, how
to talk to me about simulatorsthat and because in previous
episodes, we've sort of brushedon them and the fact that
simulators themselves haveinstructors, how close are they
(18:53):
to the real thing? Obviously,the Jeopardy is is a great deal.
Oh, but do you get a good feelfor flying from the simulator
experience?
Suzie McKee (19:03):
I mean, in terms of the jet, so I can't really
comment I've never flown but itdoes feel very real in all the
scenarios you're you're facedwith although you wouldn't
expect have a decompressionpilot incapacitation, you know,
one engine out landing, once westarted sort of getting those
done, it does feel like yourstress levels are rising when
(19:24):
you know you're getting certainemergencies like you probably
would experience in a in a realplane. But if we go back to like
the smaller Sims, they don'teven move, you just sit in a
seat, it gets dry, you know.
Dave Rogers (19:43):
All of those things sound absolutely terrifying by
the way.
Suzie McKee (19:47):
It gets trained, God knows all about
Ben Hall (19:50):
that the smallest things when you like doing your
initial training, they'redesigned for more sort of quite
basic procedural aspects. Soliterally like following line
towards a radio beacon and stufflike that. Whereas once you get
in the simulator that is arealistic, it's like a really
immersive computer game. Andbecause actually, when you're
(20:13):
dealing with a lot ofemergencies, you don't you don't
look outside that much. Now thegraphics and the simulators are
very, very good. But you're notstaring out the window, a lot of
the stuff you're doing isinternal to the cockpit. And
that cockpit is a carbon copy ofwhat you'd have in real life.
Dave Rogers (20:32):
Okay, so very important then, but well, quite
simply because you're not gonna,you're not going to send a, I
don't know, 777 after costs,however many hundreds of
millions of dollars and say, oh,by the way, we're going to turn
this engine off now to give thisto give this young pilot the
experience of landing it Thatdoes sound like a very expensive
(20:53):
way of doing things. Good. Sowhat about what about the
transition between cabin crewand and pilot that I know,
you've, you've still got alittle way to go before you get
that that dream job that I hopeis just around the corner for
you? Do you think you're goingto come up against any
(21:13):
obstacles? Kind of people'sattitudes towards you?
Suzie McKee (21:17):
Yeah, I do think it's, it could be a bit of a
stigma. And I have experiencedit throughout previous
interviews as well. And you sortof turn up and they like have
been cabin crew has been sobeneficial to me, I literally
loved it. It was a fantasticjob. And it was perfect to be my
stepping stone. But sometimesit's hard for people to see past
(21:40):
the fact that you are havingcrew and saying that I received
the same training that everyoneelse has, like we're all on a
completely equal playing fieldnow. So it's up to me how I
portray myself in futureinterviews, I suppose. And if I
can do that, then I should beable to do anything.
Dave Rogers (21:59):
I'm trying to think of comparable things, obviously
the this such there's so fewindustries that are comparable
with aviation, but I rememberbeing a teenager and working on
a building site and then I don'tknow like the buildings
inspector would would turn upand they'd always have a suit on
with their hives over theirsuits and a brand new car. And
all the lads on the site wouldbe like, Oh, look at him. He's
(22:20):
never done a hard day's work inhis life. But I was just
wondering, what's therelationship like, between cabin
crew and pilots? Essentially,what to cabin crew think of
pilots, that's what I want toknow Ben blockier is?
Suzie McKee (22:36):
No, I was always a bit of like, I was called a
flight deck floozy. It was onlybecause I needed it as a
learning curve. So I wouldalways be wanting to sort of
like volunteer to do the walkaround. So before flight, the
pilot light walks around. So I'dgo and do that with the first
(22:58):
officer and the captain. I tryand get into the flight deck for
as many like takeoffs andlandings as I could. So I always
tried to have a goodrelationship with the pilots
because it was something that Ineeded to have. But there
definitely is like a cabin crewpilots stigma. I think,
(23:18):
especially if you're goingtowards some of the more archaic
airlines and archaic pilots,there's sometimes a bit of Lost
in Translation chat that goeson, we have crew buses, so we
take the crew bus from theterminal to the plane or from
the airport to where we'resaying when we're in a different
(23:39):
city. And you can definitelytell that the pilots will sit at
the very front, you know,headphones on on the iPads and
the crew organising drinks at6pm.
Dave Rogers (23:49):
And do you think with with regards to flight deck
floozy and obviously you wereincredibly keen to learn, do you
think those intentions may havebeen misinterpreted
Suzie McKee (24:03):
amongst the crew everything I did in the flight
deck was like only everprofessional, I've literally
learned so much from evenspending 10 minutes taking a cup
of tea in the middle of thenight, for example. So it was it
was definitely a tool that I useto help me get where I am now.
Dave Rogers (24:21):
And Ben, what two pilots think of cabin crew. I
think you know what pilots isprobably
Ben Hall (24:32):
it really depends on the mindset of the of the
pilots. The whole feeling forthe flight starts within the
first like 10 seconds. When thecaptain kind of says hello to
the crew. You can really get thesense of right this is gonna be
a good flight or a bad flight.
And if that report is not therestraight away, hardly anyone
(24:52):
will come visit you. You canhave like a 12 hour flight and
Because Kevin crew in mostairlines have to check up on the
pilots every half an hour justto make sure there's no medical
issues and they're awake and youknow, everything's fine. But
they can do that by physicallycoming into the cockpit or by
(25:13):
giving you a call on a landline,if there's a bad start to the
flight, that's all you get. It'sa everything right? Yeah,
cheers. Butare you really so it's a
nightmare when you when you'vegot a captain, who gives it like
(25:33):
a really bad first impression.
You're just like this, it kindof taints you with the same
brush. Because nobody wants tocome visit. And everyone kind of
thinks that they speak to you,then they're going to have to
speak to the captain, so I'mgoing to risk it.
Dave Rogers (25:54):
But is that something Ben that as you
develop to become a captain? Isthat something that you're going
to be very aware of?
Ben Hall (26:01):
And I think, honestly, it's got a lot lot better. It
tends to be just the real tailend of the the old cohort, where
it's kind of the captain is theboss and nobody can say anything
against them. I mean, 99% ofpilots now are very good in my
opinion. Yeah, but the cabincrew thinks funny because I
(26:24):
spoke to a cabin crew memberwho's been flying for like 35
years never visited the cockpitin a while actually just was not
interested. She's more thanhappy to sit down the back
having a chat. And I just couldnot fathom that but each their
(26:46):
own right.
Dave Rogers (26:48):
Well, I think that just shows the different reasons
that people get into the job,isn't it? Yeah. But you You must
have met some incrediblecharacters as a as a member of
cabin crew.
Suzie McKee (27:01):
I think crew themselves they say it takes a
certain type of person to becabin crew. And that you do meet
some of them best people aresome of the worst people. So it
is very much it's a mess. Youget a couple that will refuse to
conform. You get a couple thatwant to talk all night get a
couple that fall asleep all theway. It is definitely a
(27:24):
character character game andcabin crew.
Dave Rogers (27:26):
You need a work ethic. They don't yeah.
Suzie McKee (27:29):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. You need the work ethic and the body
clock for it. There is a twomajor things.
Dave Rogers (27:37):
Yeah, just just the amount of time you spend on your
feet.
Suzie McKee (27:42):
I think my I think my absolute most I ever did was
I think I did 20 420 404,000sorry. Yeah, in one flight. I
think it was a Bangkok orsomething where you're
constantly giving out a bit.
Dave Rogers (28:00):
I think that's about 12. k,
Suzie McKee (28:02):
up and down constantly, but startling.
Dave Rogers (28:07):
That's astonishing.
Unknown (28:09):
Yeah.
Dave Rogers (28:11):
Well, so Well, that's the thing. I mean, now
you're a pilot. You just gonnabe sat on your ass the whole
time.
Suzie McKee (28:17):
I can't wait.
Dave Rogers (28:21):
Ah, Susie?
Suzie McKee (28:23):
Yes.
Dave Rogers (28:24):
What's the dream?
Suzie McKee (28:26):
A 787. Long Haul from London. Okay. Yeah, I think
people say you're either anAirbus or Boeing person. And
there's a lot of rivalry betweenthe two. I mean, we've got our
very own Airbus man there aswell. But I feel I'm going to be
(28:48):
a Boeing go.
Dave Rogers (28:50):
Why Boeing?
Suzie McKee (28:53):
Well, this is where the Airbus people try and stay
out, sell the fact that they geta drop down table. That
realistically, it's not allabout furniture. I just think I
really like the feeling of theBoeing and I've been mostly on
Boeing that only Airbus is I'vealready done that the smaller
(29:13):
ones as in flown as crew. And Iwant to fly the big jets. And I
think the 787 has a very nicefeel to it.
Dave Rogers (29:21):
Ben, why Airbus?
Ben Hall (29:24):
It's the future, Dave.
The future it looks off to youand it's nice and comfortable.
And we do have a table fordinner. We're not heathens, we
don't eat dinner on our laps.
Right? The difference is thatthey're both essentially the
(29:44):
same. Boeing has got like acontrol yoke, right. So it's got
like a steering wheel. And it'sconsidered a bit more of a
pilot's plane because you can,it's like a bit more
conventional so you can feel theflying whereas an Airbus has a
little sense. joystick and callit a side stick. It's got no
mechanical connectionswhatsoever. It's just a computer
(30:05):
signal sent backwards. And it'sgot some like artificial
feedback. So you can kind offeel a bit of pressure. But it's
all it's a lot more about justknowing what you're doing rather
than feeling the flight.
Suzie McKee (30:21):
So Ben's over there playing Mario Kart.
Dave Rogers (30:27):
I love this Boeing VFS banter is gonna be perhaps
my favourite feature of thispodcast series.
Unknown (30:40):
Feeling as well.
Dave Rogers (30:43):
So think things aren't as you as anyone wants
them to be in the aviationindustry in the moment, whether
it's pilots, whether it's cabincrew, whether it's people like
me, who are just frequenttravellers who are desperate to,
to get back to work in othercountries, how patient Are you
willing to be Susy with regardsto getting in the cockpit and,
(31:04):
and actually becoming the pilotthat you want to be?
Suzie McKee (31:08):
Well, personally, I am impatient, very impatient. I
mean, I've worked what I feelhas been for years to get to
this point now. And I'm where Idid originally have that job
offer. When I started mytraining, it's all been a bit of
an anticlimax, finishing and notsure where to go from here. So
(31:30):
I'm giving myself a year to twoyears. And Pilot School is an
absolute slog, the best 20months, but it is so difficult,
so difficult. So really havingthis time for us by now is
actually quite important, Ithink. And yeah, we'll start the
job hunt, probably towards theend of 2021.
Ben Hall (31:53):
Do you plan on doing any sort of, like aircraft
flying or anything to keep yourhand in? Or do you just gonna
put on pause for the time being,
Suzie McKee (32:00):
I mean, I'm down in South Coast, I'm quite close to
certain airports, there's acouple of small flight schools
pop over to Bournemouth way,like there's definitely options
around and I got a single enginerating as well. And when I was
doing my, my programme of flightschool, so I do have the ability
to go and fly the smaller planesif I want to, I definitely will
(32:22):
try and do at least an hour amonth. I think that so
expensive. Like I think that'dbe all I can really do for now.
And I've considered getting aflight instructor certification
as well. So a couple of options,
Dave Rogers (32:35):
staying busy, just going back to having that
suppose guaranteed job, and thenit being taken away? What kind
of psychological impact did thathave?
Suzie McKee (32:47):
You think, more than anything, it was just a
very stressful situation, I heldout longer than I hoped to get
that first like flying schoolrole. Because it was first once
a programme with with a sort ofguarantee of that job at the
end. So it was extremelydisheartening. But
realistically, I've now come outwith a licence that's a lot more
(33:11):
applicable for, for the sort ofindustry now. And I've come out
with a commercial pilot'slicence instrument rating and a
single and multi engine rating,none of which I would have come
out if I'd done the otherlicence. So I'm definitely
better placed than I would havebeen. But I don't have the job.
Dave Rogers (33:33):
Plenty of time for that. It's really interesting
hearing you talk about thingslike that, because it's just not
something I'd consider the factthat you are both qualified
pilots is, is just so far beyondanything that my, my tiny little
brain could could evencomprehend. But then when you
break it down, you make it soundso functional. It's like, right,
(33:55):
I've got this licence and thisrating and got these stamps on
my card and stuff like that.
There are there are so many ofthese boxes that need to be
ticked, so many of these teststhat that need to be passed. I
mean, it is an incredibly cooljob. But there are a lot of well
boxes that you need to take itas it is quite functional in
terms of its format, isn't it?
Suzie McKee (34:16):
Yeah, definitely. I think, obviously, aviation, the
first role is safety. So havingto go through all of these
tests, although it's stressful,and it was super testing, it's
all for the main reason. Soyou're happy to do so.
Ben Hall (34:32):
And it's just constantly I mean, with most
jobs, you kind of do thetraining at the beginning, and
then you like do the role thatyou've been trained for. Whereas
obviously, you do that inpiloting. But I mean, the
absolute minimum you have to doas an airline pilot is a test
every six months. And that's twodays of four hour blocks in the
sim with engines blowing up anddecompressions and gas masks on
(34:57):
and all sorts of stuff. Andthat's about the Easiest, you're
going to get to concentrating
Dave Rogers (35:06):
with regards to your path to Z. And if you could
rewind, however, a number ofyears to when you finished
university, would you take thesame path to becoming a
qualified pilot now,
Suzie McKee (35:19):
I think if I'd have had a bigger interest in
aviation before that if I'd seenit as an actual feasible career
path, but rather than theleisure centre manager, I
probably would have tried tohave gotten into, say, the Air
Squadron at university. Idefinitely attended air shows
before. I've been aroundairfields. And I've been to a
(35:43):
lot of flight school open days.
But if I'd have done all that,let's say the two years earlier,
without my cabin crew stint, Iwouldn't have the knowledge that
I do from being the other sideof the door. But I would
probably potentially be sort ofa couple of 100 hours down now
in a job. So timing hasn't beenmy friend. But I do think that
(36:05):
the path I did take was the bestfor me at the time.
Dave Rogers (36:11):
And would you would you recommend cabin crew as a
job for anybody?
Suzie McKee (36:16):
Yeah, definitely. I recommend it all the time.
There's so many people that aresort of stuck in retail, you
know, stuck in the in the dayjob that isn't quite giving them
what they want. And the mainrole of cabin crew, apart from
safety, is having the confidenceto be in front of people, you
have to have that outgoingnature. And you have to be able
(36:38):
to deal with a lot of issues youdon't want to deal with. But you
do that and retail, things likethat anyway. And if you want to
do all that, alongsidetravelling the world for free,
and I don't understand whypeople don't go for it more
often.
Dave Rogers (36:55):
Is it competitive?
though? I can't imagine it'sthat easy to just get a cabin
crew job.
Suzie McKee (37:00):
I think there's a couple of like, difficulties. To
get into the role, you have tobe a certain height for
starters. And same for pilot,you have to be between two
height ranges. And there's adifferent set for boys and girls
as well, which is always a bitodd. Yeah, so a lot of people
I've heard, who want to be cabincrew failed the first hurdle
(37:21):
because they've lied about theirheight. Yeah, they test your
reach, which is basically so ifyou were to be holding on to one
of the handles of the doors, andyou had to pull the manual
inflation handle of a slide, youhave to be able to reach it. So
that's tested
Dave Rogers (37:40):
for different heights for men and women that
that that winds me up. To befair, Ben, you must be right on
the cusp, because you'remassive. Yeah, I
Ben Hall (37:47):
think nobody's has checked to be honest.
Dave Rogers (37:52):
But the different heights for men and women. I
mean, we were at risk oftravelling down a massive
wormhole here, but I don't knowif either of you have read
invisible women. But the factthat when they test airbags with
crash test dummies, they do itbased on the average weight of a
man not a woman. So if you're ina car crash, then a woman is
more likely to die than a man.
Suzie McKee (38:14):
That's really good news. Thank you. Well,
Dave Rogers (38:16):
you know, it's a it's a Tuesday morning. I just
thought I'd send you into theweek with a smile on your face.
But yeah, it is. I'm sure thereis I'm sure there are decisions
made by people far above mypaygrade that have that have
decided the reasons behind that.
But it does seem a strange one.
So but you You are right, youwere tall enough or short
enough. I vaguely remember yearsago reading that. There. There
(38:41):
was a brief but ill fated airWales that flew out of Cardiff
Wales airport. And don't ask meto tell you what planes they
were but they were very smalland quite rickety old boats. And
the cabin crew had to be smallerthan normal cabin crew because
otherwise they'd just beendragging their heads against the
(39:02):
ceiling the entire time. So theyjust think they just went
searching the hills and thevalleys for the for the shortest
women they could find andoffered them. I wonder where
whales even flew to? I've neverheard about it. Well, it was it
was early 2000s it was an I'donly heard of it because I was a
(39:22):
big rugby supporter and theysponsored the sprays.
Ben Hall (39:26):
Cardiff to Holyhead lovely
Dave Rogers (39:28):
cards are the big one over the water over the
water tier right you've gotoffers dike Do you and Ben to
you, when you're giving the sortof Route plan out the route plan
what am I the a website when youwhen you're when you're telling
(39:53):
the the passengers where we'regoing to go and it's like our so
we'll be we'll be coming overthe channel and then we'll be
going over Swindon and followingthe M four corridor up, do you
give those kinds ofinstructions?
Ben Hall (40:04):
Do I give them?
Dave Rogers (40:06):
Yeah, well, so I quite like it. I quite like it
when the pilot does that whenthey essentially tell you that
really depends how
Ben Hall (40:13):
much time you've got at the beginning of the flight,
and how lazy you're being. Sowe've got a couple of like a few
elements that we have to includein a PA, which are mainly safety
based. And then everything elseis kind of at your discretion.
So if you're, if you're in a bitof a rush, and you know things
going a little bit wrong, thenprobably just scrap
Dave Rogers (40:35):
it. But why don't you tell us the cruising speed
and the altitude because wethink people are interested in
it. Okay, so it is quite, Imean, I generally am but that
is, it's literally because ofpast. Yeah, there's
Ben Hall (40:48):
a lot of people that really are interested. I mean,
we have sort of, yeah, planespotters, and just enthusiasts
come into the cockpit after theflight and a lot of them nerds.
I've had people come in, andthey've got little logbooks of
every flight they've ever taken.
And they want to know the roots.
(41:09):
They want to know the cruisingspeed. They want to know the
altitude, they want to know.
Your tail number everything.
Dave Rogers (41:15):
I love it. I absolutely love it. You probably
don't
Suzie McKee (41:21):
let them wear your hat.
Ben Hall (41:22):
Well, it makes me feel a bit bad because they're more
interested in it than I am.
Dave Rogers (41:27):
That's a great question. Actually. Susie, I
don't know if you heard that,then would you ever let them
wear your hat?
Ben Hall (41:33):
Yeah, so I've let a lot of kids wear my hat.
Dave Rogers (41:38):
What's the cutoff like 14? How we
Ben Hall (41:41):
probably push it to sort of 15. But above that, it
just starts getting a bit weird.
Dave Rogers (41:48):
Yeah. Yeah. Have you got your hat Susie?
Suzie McKee (41:53):
I don't have a hat.
I used to have my cabin crewhat. I sat on it. Yeah, I use
the hat box as well. And I usedto use that to like, transport
either easter eggs or bananas.
In a cheesecake factorycheesecake books.
Dave Rogers (42:19):
Susie, I suppose the final question is, have you
got any advice? For people whoare who are thinking about
becoming a pilot, I think it'sincredible that both you and Ben
have mentioned that you're notfrom aviation families. So this
is something that you've doneoff your own bat, you find your
own route in. And I really,really hope that in the not too
(42:39):
distant future, everything comesto fruition, and you get the job
that you want and the job thatyou deserve. But have you got
any advice for those people whoWell, I suppose want to be a
pilot, but have those doubts, itjust seems like something that's
so far away from?
Suzie McKee (42:55):
Yeah, it definitely at the moment, especially is
like very much a distance or fora lot of people. Um, but I would
just say the most exposure youcan get, like the better. So
make sure you do go to thoseopen days at all the schools
that you want to consider makesure you're going to sort of
flight demonstrations. Whenmaybe even take a sort of a
(43:18):
practice flight with aninstructor, you can get them
really cheap experience dayswise. So yeah, just try and be
as exposed to aviation, as youcan maybe even get a job in
aviation, even if it's washing aplane. And having all of these
tiny parts of like showinginterest come across really well
in an interview. And then Apartfrom that, it would just be make
(43:40):
sure that your choice isfinancially protected,
especially at the moment, it'snot the best time perhaps or
argued by some anyway to enterinto some sort of flight
training. So having your backcovered is really important at
the moment, but I hope it'sgonna be a good career. I mean,
Ben's definitely having a lovelytime. So it'll be positive in
(44:00):
the end. I'm sure.
Dave Rogers (44:01):
Ben, when was the last time you washed a plane? I
didn't hear you might but Ithink your silence is 2009 it
was 2000 not good goodness meover a decade ago. See? That's
it once you once you put thelegwork in sushi, it's easy
Street, just sit there and getserved. And all you've got to do
(44:22):
is take off and land.
Suzie McKee (44:25):
I mean, isn't it?
Dave Rogers (44:28):
Well, good luck.
Good luck, Suzy. And thank youso much for your time. This has
been a lovely, lovelyconversation. And will you make
me a promise, please? Hmm. Whenyou do get the pilot's job, and
when it does start to turn outreally well for you. You'll come
back on the podcast and tell usabout it.
Suzie McKee (44:49):
I loved it. I've had a lovely time.
Dave Rogers (44:53):
Thank you very much Susie. Look after yourself.
Ben Hall (44:58):
Thanks for listening to the pilot based podcast.
We'll be back next week withanother great guest from the
aviation industry. Don't forgetto check out our new career
platform at pilot base.com andall the socials at pilot base
HQ. If you enjoyed this podcast,don't forget to subscribe and
review
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