What was it like to deploy to Los Angeles and fight the infamous fires of the winter of 2025? What does it take to hit the fires with precision every time? How difficult is it to scoop from a heavy sea state on the ocean, or from tight quarters in a California reservoir? In this episode we sit down with aerial firefighter Pascal Duclos. Pascal has been fighting fires across Canada and the United States for many years, but this year he encountered conditions he had never previously seen. Tune in today to hear about what it takes to be an aerial firefighter, as well as fighting the fires of LA County!
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Bryan (00:58):
Alright. We're ready for departure here at the pilot
project podcast, the best sourcefor stories and advice from RCAF
and Mission Aviation Pilotsbrought to you by Skies
Magazine. I'm your host, BrianMorrison. With me today is
Pascal Duclaud, an aerialfirefighting pilot with Servies
Aerienne Gubermantel du Quebec.Pascal, welcome to the show.
I've got a feeling this is goingto be a super interesting
(01:18):
conversation, so let's diveright in. So today, we will be
talking about Pascal's careerand flight training, and we will
be especially focusing on histime conducting firefighting
operations in the recent firesin the Los Angeles area. But
before we jump into any of that,let's go through Pascal's bio.
Passionate about aviation anddriven by the desire to fight
wildfires in Quebec, Pascalbegan his aviation career in
(01:41):
1998. To gain the necessaryexperience, he worked for
several Bush aviation companiesacross Canada honing his skills
and developing valuableexpertise in the field.
In 02/2006, he completed hisinstrument flight training at
the Centre de Formationaeronautique du Quebec. This
certification allowed him toenter the charter flight sector
where he operated flights acrossCanada and The United States.
(02:05):
His ultimate goal became areality in 02/2010 when he
joined the government airservice. For eight seasons, he
served as a tanker pilot playinga crucial role in protecting
Quebec's forests from wildfires.His dedication and experience
then led him to join thetraining team.
And by the end of 02/2022, hewas promoted to chief pilot of
the air tanker fleet. His careerhas given him the opportunity to
(02:26):
experience significant moments,including the twenty twenty
three wildfire season, '1 of themost intense in Quebec's
history, as well as the historicfires that ravaged Los Angeles
County last winter. These eventshighlight the immense challenges
faced by the aviation sector inwildfire suppression. With this
extensive experience, hecontinues his mission with
passion and commitmentcontributing to the training of
(02:47):
new generations of pilots andthe protection of our forests.
So, Pascal, what started youdown the path of chasing
aviation as a career?
Where did it all start for you?
Pascal (02:56):
Yeah. I was, interested in the high school to, become a
pilot. And, they told me I willnot be able to be a pilot
because I wasn't speakingenglish at this time so, I tried
to do something else. So Ijoined the reserve, army for a
few years and I jumped to theregular army for, about six
(03:19):
months or so. And when I decidedto quit, I was driving down on
the highway and listening to theradio, I heard, like, become a
pilot and do a flight, just aone hour flight, something like
that, just to overview of apilot.
And, that's where I started my,career after that flight.
Bryan (03:40):
Really? So how did you go about learning English then to
make sure you could be a pilot?
Pascal (03:46):
Yeah. That's, that become, after, I start the the
training as a, like, privatepilot and everything in the
private school. So that was inin process of my career because
in Quebec, you don't really needto speak English to be a pilot.
So but I since I have nobody inmy family who was a pilot, I
didn't have any expertise onthat, so, I didn't know they
(04:10):
have a private school where youcan be a pilot. So, that that
that was my, my process to to bea pilot anyway.
Bryan (04:17):
Okay. So what inspired you to make aerial firefighting
your ultimate goal?
Pascal (04:23):
When I started my private license in the Airport
Of Quebec, every time I wastaxiing to the, Runway 24, I was
passing in front of the, C L415. That's where the service
area in Grand Martel is, theparking is. And so every time I
was passing in front of thoseplanes, was watching the plane
and said, oh, one day I'm gonnafly those planes. And my
(04:44):
instructor was laughing at thattime but I guess that was normal
because lots of people thinkingabout or dreaming about flying
those planes.
Bryan (04:54):
Does your instructor know that you do it now?
Pascal (04:57):
Yeah.
Bryan (05:00):
So we're used to discussing the military flight
training system on this show.Can you tell us briefly about
the training you underwent fromgetting your PPL or private
pilot license to being qualifiedto fight fires? What ratings are
required to be a firefightingpilot?
Pascal (05:14):
Yeah. I have done my, private pretty fast in the, when
I just started in the winter, soaround 1998, and after that I
just done all of my hours to getto the commercial flight test in
the school and do the writingexam as well, but for the rest
(05:34):
of the hour, instead of doing mytwin rating, I went to the
company to do my float planerating. So I was about to do
around fifty hours, maybe fortyfive-fifty hours of flying on
floats before getting mycommercial license, which is two
hundred hours. And after that Ijust get a job, I hang around in
(05:56):
the company helping pilot thereand I'm loading and unloading
the plane and when the owner hada chance, he just offered me a
job. And around in July, thatwas my start of a commercial
flying.
I was on the EVA for floatcharter tourist sightseeing,
something like that. And Istayed there for a few years,
(06:16):
maybe three years, two years,and they had a crash. So they
shut down the company for ayear. So I moved on the
Manitoba. So that's that's comethe answer to your question of
why I why I learned my English.
I got a call from one of myfriend. Guys was looking for a
pilot in Manitoba. They arehiring me, and I was talking
(06:36):
about the with them and say, Idon't have the English level to
to work with you. And they said,no. No problem.
Everybody speak French, andthey're gonna teach you and
everything. But when I getthere, nobody was speaking
French. So I I had to learnEnglish the hard way. And after
that summer, I came back andthen the same company, they
(06:59):
restarted the operation. So I Iwith a little bit more
experience, ventilation,everything.
So they they offered me a beaverdrop, DHC two.
Bryan (07:07):
Sorry. That was on the De Havilland Beaver?
Pascal (07:09):
Yeah. De Havilland Beaver. Yeah.
Bryan (07:11):
Oh, that's a classic bush plane.
Pascal (07:12):
Yeah. Yeah. Pretty classic. Yeah. So I spent
another I worked around sevenyears, six seven, eight years on
the this company.
I was in Lechuk in Quebec. Soand after that, I get my IFR,
twin IFR rating, get up prettyfast in the same company and I
(07:32):
found the formation of Analyticsin Quebec. So after that I get
my IFR twin rating and I jump onthe charter company, different
small twin fixed wing planeflying around Northern Quebec
and East United States, Ontario,Manitoba, charter, like King Air
(07:53):
and Navarro or something likethat. And after that, I got the
interview and service and GrandMartell and I got a job in
02/2010. So that was theultimate goal.
Bryan (08:05):
Well, let me see if I can remember all that. You needed to
get your commercial, your multiengine, your IFR rating. And did
you need a float rating as wellto get that job?
Pascal (08:14):
Of course. Of course. We need the float rating to get a
Yeah. C l four fifteen. Yeah.
Because it's amphibiousairplane.
Bryan (08:20):
So Yes. Okay. Well, that's a lot of ratings to have
to collect on your own outthere.
Pascal (08:26):
Yeah. To me, it took, like, ten years. At this time,
the we have to had, fifteenhours on float before, have, I
think, the possibility to, justapply on the, CL four fifteen
pilot job. Today, we cut downthat requirement to 500. So
that's make people can applymuch sooner than it was before.
Bryan (08:49):
It was fifteen hundred and now it's just down to five
hundred?
Pascal (08:52):
Yeah. Yeah.
Bryan (08:54):
Okay. Interesting. Can I ask why that is?
Pascal (08:57):
Because we are in a shortage of pilot, of course,
the all all around the world. Sowith the, lack of people
experience on float, we had tofind a solution to find people,
and, so we we had more trainingon the new pilot. So we were
able to get lower on theexperience.
Bryan (09:19):
Okay.
Pascal (09:20):
That's the way we try to find people because we still
have 25% less people than whatwe need.
Bryan (09:27):
Oh wow. Yeah. I mean that's pretty much the story in
every aviation company, right? Imean, same with the air force. I
imagine it's pretty commonacross the whole spectrum of
aviation right now.
Pascal (09:37):
It is. It is the same same story on every company for
sure.
Bryan (09:42):
So when you arrived at the government air service, did
you feel prepared by yourprevious experience in training?
Pascal (09:47):
I would say yes and no because I was prepared to fly
the plane, let's say, normalcondition because what you're
doing is charter, right? If yougo to the bush cabin dropping
people and taking people outstuff like plywood and
everything, canoe, fourwheelers, know, ATV, something
like that, you're prepared to docharter and everything, so land,
(10:09):
drop, take something, and goback to the base. So same thing
on the twin IR charter company.But when you arrive on the
aerial firefighting, it's alittle bit different. So the
condition is different, you domultiple takeoff and landing in
the same day, that can go over100 in a day, so it's really
(10:31):
hard on the physical and mentalto stay efficient on takeoff and
landing you know and everythingso when you start it's pretty
hard and my first mission aftermy initial training was on the
Saint Lawrence River so we hadlittle bit swell and so the
(10:51):
captain started all the scoopand everything, the drop and
everything, which is normal, andwhen they gave me the control to
scoop was really terrible.
When I finished this thismission, I was I was thinking I
will not be able to scopeanymore. Yeah. So it was really
(11:13):
difficult for me. Anyway, afterafter that mission, we we had
another mission the day after,and we spent eight hours on the
other mission. It was more thanjust one or two scoop.
So I had time to acclimate and,you know, get the feeling of the
plane because when you jump on amission, you have lots of
simulator hours. But on a realplane, there was, I would say,
(11:38):
five or between five and tenhours flying maximum.
Bryan (11:41):
Okay.
Pascal (11:42):
So when you jump on a scoop and a swell and everything
was was not you don't have anytraining on the swell before you
get in because in Quebec, it'snot really often you go on the
swell. Yep. So it was reallydifficult. Yeah. So, anyway,
after after the second day, weget back to the base, and I was,
oh, that was a good day.
That was that was I was right onthe spot and I was excited about
(12:02):
the mission. So that's why yousaid yes and no. So it depends
on what you're doing and youcannot be prepared to do, I
don't know, 75 drop in the fourhour mission on the smoke of
your own and you have amountainous region. You never
know what was going to be yourfirst mission so it's going to
be hard. We have some people whohad their first mission in the
(12:25):
Los Angeles contract, theydidn't have any fire in the
summer here, they just havetraining all the summer long so
it can be really different.
You can do your first mission onthe Mentobo which is pretty
flat, there's no really mountainover there but the lake are
pretty shallow, You can have thefirst fire in the British
(12:46):
Columbia, which is really amountainous region, so it would
be pretty rough for for thefirst fire mission.
Bryan (12:54):
Yeah. It's interesting. I knew you guys were doing
operations in California andQuebec. I didn't realize that it
was Canada wide essentially thatyou're operating in.
Pascal (13:03):
Yeah. Yeah. We are operating all Canada wide from
Goose Bay to Vancouver. Justjust just depend on demand.
Bryan (13:12):
Okay. And I guess just quickly for the audience, when
you say scooping, we'll get intothis a little more when we talk
about the aircraft, but that'sbasically their scoops in the
bottom of the aircraft to scoopup water as you as you go along
the water. Right?
Pascal (13:26):
Yeah. Of course. Yeah. We on the FCL four fifteen, you
have two scoop or fill twotanks. The two tanks are split
in in two.
So you have one tank splittingwith baffle in in in middle. So
the four fifteen come withbasically four tanks, but it's
two tanks with baffle in themiddle of the transverse tank.
(13:47):
And you have two scoop, maybe 10centimeters by 15 square. So we
cannot have any fish and theyhave baffled in there as well,
cannot scoop fish, cannot scoopa diver or something like that,
(14:07):
just like legend for some puppytoll somewhere. So yeah, we just
put the scoop down.
So that's where it come from.The name of scooping, scooping
water. Okay.
Bryan (14:18):
And just out of curiosity, are those tanks
divided so that you can drop inlike quarter, like do a, you can
do four separate drops if youneed to?
Pascal (14:27):
Yeah. We can do four separate drop. We have timer on
the computer, we can set up atimer, we can do two at a time.
So there's multiple way to useit. But mainly we use it at four
in the same time.
Sometimes you can do a smalldelay in each lane with the auto
four, that's the way we call it,auto four, so automatic four
(14:48):
doors with a small timer inbetween each door. This more
mainly for the crash fires,something like that. Sometimes
you have to do a longer line. Soit's gonna be more straight line
than a less wide so you can cando a longer line.
Bryan (15:05):
Okay. What specific training did you receive as a
new pilot joining the aerialfirefighting team?
Pascal (15:12):
It start with the in class training. So in beginning,
you you start to learn all the,like, every other planes, you
start to learn all of thelimitation of the plane, the
system, and everything on theclass. And after that, you jump
on all the normal training classyou have to do for every other
(15:32):
company, like high altitude, theoxygen, and everything. You have
to do all the same training. Andafter that, we jump on the
training, so that's where itstarts to split from, let's say,
the airline training.
Of course, they do training onsimulator but they mainly do IFR
training and emergency. We doIFR training, emergency, and we
(15:54):
do also scooping and firemission training in the
simulator. And we, for the newpilot, took around twenty,
twenty five hours on thesimulator instead of five or six
hour, I think, if I rememberwell on the airline for initial.
So let's say the double offlight simulator training in the
(16:18):
scooper. We're gonna go throughall the emergency and the QRH,
so it took time but after thatthe candidate is really ready to
go on the plane.
So because we finished thetraining on the plane. Just like
I said, we don't have the fullflight simulators, so we have to
do a training flight. So afterthat, we do two, three flights
(16:41):
with the guys, the candidate,and we do the PPC.
Bryan (16:44):
What's a PPC?
Pascal (16:46):
It's a pilot proficiency check.
Bryan (16:48):
Okay.
Pascal (16:49):
So it's a check check ride, basically check ride, to
comply with the Transport Canadaregulation. And after that, we
do our line check. That's whatthey call in the airline, the
line check. It's a FAR missionwith one of our check pilots,
our trainer pilot. So we do aFAR mission that can be
(17:09):
simulated or a real one.
We try to do real one becauseit's gonna have small
environmental and other traffic,everything so when we go on a
far, small airport is gonna bein place. Have guys on top of
us, we have a helco top of usmanaging the traffic and
(17:30):
everything. So just to make surethe guys understand all the the
movement and the situationawareness around that so before
putting the new guys with a acaptain on the line. Right. We
try to do our best too.
So and after that fire, the guysis if he understands all the
thing, we release the guys onthe on the line, and that's
(17:53):
that's the whole process for thenew guy.
Bryan (17:55):
Yeah. Wow.
Pascal (17:56):
It took around between one and two months, depending of
the Okay. The season and theavailability availability and
the the weather around.
Bryan (18:05):
So that's a lot to do in one to two months. So that must
be, like, a pretty intensecouple months.
Pascal (18:10):
It is. It is. Actually.
Bryan (18:13):
Just quickly, you mentioned HELCO. That's a
helicopter controller. Right?
Pascal (18:17):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It it stands for helicopter
controller. Yeah.
Bryan (18:20):
Okay. And we'll talk more about that in a bit. What is the
upgrade process with the Quebecgovernment air service?
Pascal (18:27):
It mainly goes by seniority in Quebec since it's
governmental. It took aroundseven years before you can be
upgraded. That Minimum is fivehundred hours in the company,
that's the requirement for thecompany, and it goes by
simulator with our instructorhere, and you're gonna go more
(18:51):
deeper in each exercise so justto be prepared to be a captain
and not first officer anymore,just to take decision and
everything. So it's not reallyonly on the way you do the
procedure, read and do, it'smore like go deeper in decision
making and everything. Becauseyou cannot go in aerial
(19:14):
firefighting.
Since we're scoping out of thelake, we didn't know it's not
operating on the runway andeverything, so it's gonna change
every time you go, and sometimesit changes on the same mission.
You go in the same lake andduring the four hours the wind
change, the smoke change, youhave to change the line,
(19:36):
sometimes you change from 180degrees to be on the lake
because you cannot scoop on theother side anymore because the
fire is too big, it's just gonnacreate this zone, the water
system, let's say.
Bryan (19:48):
Oh, wow.
Pascal (19:48):
So that's why we we go a little bit deeper. After the
simulator it's not that long,maybe eight hours, nine hours of
simulator outside. And afterthat, we're gonna go on plane
because our simulator is not alevel d like for motion, it's
just a basic flight simulator.So after that we go on the
(20:10):
plane, we do the training itneeds to be captain and after
that is kind of a we're gonna dothe PPC on the left seat to be
captain and we're gonna beforethe release, that's the biggest
part, before the release, we flysome of the instructor or me as
chief pilot, we fly with thecandidate and make sure he can
(20:34):
manage the plane on almost everysituation, let's say, because of
course we cannot do allsituations with him, but we're
gonna try to do a few hours withhim, five hours or five
missions, something like that,depend of the candidate and
everything. Just to make surehe's he's good enough to manage
everything because you neverknow.
(20:54):
He can can be posted on a on amission with the brand new guys,
So I'm gonna have to manage thenew guys so that the the the can
make it. So we have to be sureit's accurate. You know?
Bryan (21:08):
Yeah. It actually sounds a lot like the upgrade process
within most fleets in themilitary. Just like you said, a
a bigger focus on decisionmaking, a bigger focus on
monitoring junior pilots. As yousaid, there's a lot more to it
than just conducting themission.
Pascal (21:24):
Yes. Yes.
Bryan (21:27):
So let's get into a bit of a general operations in
aerial firefighting. Mostlisteners likely aren't aware of
what aerial firefighting lookslike in North America. Can you
share with us what a career inaerial firefighting entails? Now
we've talked a little bit abouthow it differs by province, but
is it contracted by season orare the pilots employed year
round?
Pascal (21:46):
Yeah. Just like we said, province by province, it's it's
gonna be different forfirefighting with all the
terrain and everything, ocean,and and we have a contract as
well in The United States. For,the employee of Service
Encryment Capital, we are paidyear round. So we're doing
basically, we're doing three ona recurrent training. It's a
three weeks, five days on, twodays off, just like a normal
(22:09):
schedule.
And after that, it jumps on thefifteen days on, three days off
until almost the September. Sothat's gonna be almost the end
of the season, fire season inQuebec, but we still have fire
until November now. We're gonnahave thirty days to do in a row
(22:32):
after the schedule of it,fifteen days on and three days
off. So that's gonna make us allthe hours per year as a, like,
governmental employee.
Bryan (22:43):
Okay.
Pascal (22:44):
And that that thirty days is mainly used to do the
contract outside of Quebec. Butsome some of our guys are not
checked to go outside, sothey're gonna do the thirty days
in Quebec. So that's gonnacomplete all the the season. The
season begin on the April 1 forthe fire response until the
(23:04):
November 15 in Quebec.
Bryan (23:06):
Okay. And then after that, you've got your season in
California.
Pascal (23:11):
Yeah. In California, the season start over there on
September 1, and the initialagreement is a ninety day.
Bryan (23:19):
Okay. What do aerial firefighters do outside of
wildfire season?
Pascal (23:24):
Some have other job, during the winter. They kept the
older job they have just in parttime during the winter.
Bryan (23:32):
Okay.
Pascal (23:33):
But most of the people just enjoying the, winter, let's
say, off or holiday, passingtime with the family and just
try to catch up the time youmiss with them in the summer.
Bryan (23:46):
Yeah. I imagine this job has you away from home a lot.
Pascal (23:50):
Yeah. Yeah. We spend around, I don't know, maybe
hundred and ten, hundred andtwenty days out of a home Wow.
With the contract in LosAngeles.
Bryan (24:01):
That's tough.
Pascal (24:02):
Yeah. Yeah. It is tough. Yeah. But it's not just some job
are tougher than others, youknow.
If you're talking about the armyor something like that, somebody
leave for six months in a row,so we're leaving for the biggest
stretch we're doing. It's,twenty eight days, thirty days
(24:22):
in the, in Los Angelescontracts.
Bryan (24:26):
So the c l four fifteen is a twin engine fixed wing
amphibious aircraft used forwater bombing. Apart from
yourself, who else is on boardthe c l four fifteen when you're
conducting firefightingoperations?
Pascal (24:36):
On the firefighting operation, we are only captain
and copilot on board.
Bryan (24:40):
Okay.
Pascal (24:41):
We are not allowed to put any people on the jump seat
for water bombing operationsince they we are on a
restricted certificate.
Bryan (24:50):
Okay. So just a crew of two?
Pascal (24:53):
Yep.
Bryan (24:54):
For people who are unfamiliar with the four
fifteen, can you give us a senseof how big it is, how much water
it can carry, and any otherfacts and figures that would
help put that in perspective?
Pascal (25:03):
Yeah. The, CL four fifteen is around 100 feet wide
and can carry up 1,600 US gallonof water or if you prefer, 6,137
liter of water, the lift offweight is 47,000 pounds when we
get out of the scoop, out of thelake. So it's pretty big
(25:25):
airplane, but it's not reallyfast airplane. It's fast, but
it's not as fast as a jetairplane for sure. Mhmm.
So it's it's reallymaneuverable, so we can do a
tight turn. You can do prettyslow flight. When we go to the
drop, we slow the flight at a 10knots. Oh, wow. It's pretty
(25:46):
slow.
Bryan (25:47):
Yeah. And then just for listeners who are not super
familiar with how that wouldwork, basically, the slower you
go, the tighter you can turn. SoI imagine that would be really
helpful in the terrain you guyswere flying in in California,
for example, where there's a lotof, hills and valleys and and
things like that.
Pascal (26:05):
Yeah. We can turn turn pretty tight, Flat 15 and slow
down the airplane. You can turnpretty tight.
Bryan (26:11):
Awesome. Does the c l four fifteen ever carry fire
retardant or just water? And canyou explain the difference in
strategy and execution betweendropping water and fire
retardant?
Pascal (26:22):
We are about to have kind of a fire retardant. We we
call that foam. It's basicallysoap. You're gonna mix with
water. We have a pump insidewith the control in the cockpit.
So we can add that to the water.That's the same way to think
when you use foam on the water,it's gonna cut the air to the
(26:46):
fire and keep the moisture inthe vegetation. When we bottle a
if you drop foam or you dropretardant, you don't want to
drop water over that so you haveto drop in between let's say the
fire retardant and the fire ordirectly on the FAR. The CL415
(27:08):
is, to my knowledge, the onlycapable machine who go right
into the smoke with it's mainlydesigned to go the majority in
the smoke so we can pass throughthe fire and, drop right in the,
the flames. On the otherairplane, you have the risk of a
compressor stall and everything,so because of the difference of
(27:30):
temperature and everything.
So
Bryan (27:31):
Oh, wow. So the CL four fifteen is engineered so that
they don't run into those kindsof issues?
Pascal (27:37):
Yeah. Yeah. We have they're called HBB and the blink
valve. So that's gonna preventfrom the surge of the
compressor.
Bryan (27:44):
Okay. Well, that's really interesting. I never even
thought about that being anissue but that's really cool.
Pascal (27:51):
Yeah. I hate this school.
Bryan (27:53):
And just so I understand, when it comes to fire retardant
versus water, water I believeyou're dropping on the fire and
retardant you're dropping aheadof the fire. Ahead of the fire.
Is that roughly correct?
Pascal (28:04):
Yeah. Yeah. It's a good way to see it. With foam, you
sometimes we put it directly onthe fire, but, when you have a
big open flame, it's not reallyefficient to put the foam
directly on the big open flame.The foam is lighter with when
it's mixed, so it can pop upwith the updraft and everything
of the heat, you
Bryan (28:24):
know? Okay.
Pascal (28:24):
So you prefer to put water. And if you have just a
small open flame all over theplace, you can put foam without
any problem. So that's gonna cutthe air and everything.
Bryan (28:35):
Okay.
Pascal (28:35):
So that's a baseline.
Bryan (28:37):
Okay. How do you assess the winds for a drop and how
does this factor influence yourapproach?
Pascal (28:43):
In Quebec, we try to do mainly headwind drop. So if you
go headwind, the drop will stopwith the wind and drop right.
It's easier from, from myperspective to drop in the right
place. But sometimes you are notable to do it because of the
mountain or power line oranything you have in the
(29:05):
undermantle of the forest orsometimes you have to to go
crosswind, downwind or so thedrop will drift, so you have to
adjust your drop. And everythinggoes by, let's say, fading
experience, so you have tomanage the wind drift and the
(29:26):
wind force, so you have tomanage that.
Since we're flying two in theformation, the first one drop,
the second one can adjust thedrop with what he saw in in
front of him. So I can adjust,let's say, one wing to the left
or one wing to the right or alittle bit later or sooner,
(29:46):
depending on what is on front.
Bryan (29:48):
Okay.
Pascal (29:49):
So it's always easier to be second instead of the first
one.
Bryan (29:54):
Yeah. And I was gonna ask that the CL415s fly in a
formation of two whilefirefighting. Is that the
biggest reason behind it thatyou have that chance then to
adjust based on the drop infront of you?
Pascal (30:04):
So one of the reasons for sure, but it's not the only
reason. It's just more efficientto have two planes at the same
time. So the goal to achieve thesuppression of fire, it's put
more water by the hour on thefire. So if you have a small
(30:25):
fire, it took really a lot ofwater to put it out. So if we
are too, we're gonna work halfof the hour we have to fly
before come down the fire.
I say I say put it off, butmainly we do not put it off the
fire, it's the ground crew, whojust come come the fire so the
(30:48):
crew can go and shut up the, thefire, you know.
Bryan (30:52):
So you guys are more controlling the fire until the
ground firefighters can put itout?
Pascal (30:56):
Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's the, that's the way it
goes.
Bryan (31:01):
Okay.
Pascal (31:02):
Sometime on a small fire, you can put it out, but
mainly on the big fire, it's, itgo too deeper in the in the
ground. So the water you'regonna drop from this from the
sky will not go as deep as theyneed it.
Bryan (31:14):
Okay. Can you take us through how you do a drop from
start to finish?
Pascal (31:19):
Yeah. We'll try it. So first, I would say from Quebec
or Canada, we took off from theairport heading to the far
mission coordinate we have. Andwe found a lake the closest by
the far as possible to be moreefficient. And by the time we
find the lake, sometime we'llhave one well, the lead plane
(31:39):
gonna go over the far, have aview of the far and everything
to look at the way we're gonnadrop if the situation is
possible.
Otherwise, we're gonna bothscoop the water and go over the
fire and have a look of thesituation awareness, mountain,
power line, entry, exit. And ifit if it's not complicated,
(32:04):
we're gonna do the drop, so dothe pattern just like you do in
the airport and just drop andreload and come back until the
guys on top of us, the ghostsaid we have enough so we can go
back home. If it's morecomplicated, we can do a dry run
or, let's say, if we havefirefighters on the ground,
(32:25):
sometimes we have no contactwith them. So by doing a dry
run, they're gonna see us andthey're gonna put the water hose
throwing water out of the of thetrees, so we're gonna see them.
So that's gonna tell us theythey have to see us and they're
gonna get out of the way becauseyou don't wanna drop water and,
(32:47):
let's say broke a tree and thetree would fall on the
firefighter.
That's that's not the way youwanna do it. It's can be
dangerous if if somebody is onthe ground. Yeah. Depending on
the visitation you have, youknow. So that's basically the
the way we do it.
Bryan (33:02):
Okay. What is the typical time frame from receiving a call
to launching an aerialfirefighting mission?
Pascal (33:09):
When we are on alert, we have three degrees of alert. We
have one. It's called green.It's a one hour response before
taking off. We have yellow,which is thirty minutes, and we
have red, which is, fifteenminutes.
Oh, wow. I will say it'sbasically the same of a, army.
You know, you have degree ofalert, and you have to be ready
(33:31):
to taking off. When we are allin Quebec, nobody is requesting.
We have two hours before takingoff.
So that's the baseline. Back inthe years in Los Angeles, we had
around five minutes beforetaking off. Yeah, were in the
tanker base, the plane is ready,check, fuel, just jumping and
(33:53):
taking off. The way we aresituated in the Van Nuys
Airport. We are just across ofthe Van Nuys, so it's pretty
fast to taking off.
And we have a prior priorityjust like Midevac. Right. So
when we are in a formation, it'sit's pretty quick at the end of
year.
Bryan (34:11):
Okay. So let's talk a little bit about the contract in
California, the rotations thatpersonnel do, and some of the
challenges you've had lately.Let's set the stage a little
here. The c l four fifteen hasbeen involved in firefighting in
California for decades. Can youtell us about when you folks are
normally in California and whatthe start or end of the fire
(34:31):
season looks like?
Pascal (34:33):
Yeah. Just like I said before, we start the agreement
to be ready for firefighting inLos Angeles, September First,
and it's for ninety days. So itlead to basically December 1,
and we are two sail four fifteenover there with two crew, so
that make us able to do a firemission between the sunrise and
(34:54):
sunset.
Bryan (34:54):
Okay.
Pascal (34:55):
So in the in the September, the day is longer so
we need to have two crew perplane and even in December when
the day is shorter from October,they have what they call over
there a Santa Ana wind, that thewind comes from the desert, it
goes pretty just like we saw inJanuary, it goes pretty strong
(35:17):
and it came with the low levelof humidity and heating. So it's
really challenging, it's reallyrough on the pilot or the crew.
So, after two missions, whatwe're doing is we do a crew
change. So even if the pilotstill have the ability of
flying, we're gonna do a crewchange just to make sure we have
(35:39):
a fresh crew in the airplane. Sothat's the basic condition that
what we have over there.
And of course, we have ourtechnician with us. So we have
four technician with us at alltime in Los Angeles. So that's
make us really able to do,mission and, maintenance during
the fire season over there.
Bryan (36:01):
And we talked a little bit about this in our pre
interview call. What are theconditions required for you guys
to head back to Quebec?
Pascal (36:09):
Normally, there's lots of condition, but, the baseline
is, when you get two inches ofrain, you're gonna be released
and heading back to Quebec, butthere's something hiding on
that. The availability of theairplane from the Los Angeles
County, The crew, if they have,let's say they have it, just
(36:32):
like us, probably the lack of,hiring pilots over there
firefighting on the ground, sothe resources is another
condition before releasing us.And of course the weather, just
like I said, two inches of rain,but let's say we have two inches
of rain, but they have a SantaAna prediction just like last
winter, with a really strongSanta Ana wind coming in a week,
(36:55):
they can say we're gonna keepyou for another week or
something like that because theyanticipate maybe a problem with
the fire suppression.
Bryan (37:05):
Okay. So basically, you can go home when there's two
inches of rain in the forecast,no Santa Ana winds, and enough
crews and aircraft to manage thefires. Exactly. Okay. That makes
sense.
What does a normal rotation looklike for a pilot coming to
California?
Pascal (37:23):
Normally, the pilot, doing twenty eight days rotation
in California. So, yeah, we dotwenty eight days, came back
home. And when we have enoughcrew, it's gonna be it for for
them for for the year. But sincewe are missing some crew, we're
doing, like, multiple rotationor even can go all the way to,
(37:45):
the maximum of the regulation,which is forty two day.
Bryan (37:49):
And forty two days, can you tell us about when you
arrived in California and howlong you ended up being there?
Pascal (37:55):
Yeah. My last petition start on the December 25, and I
stayed there for almost fortytwo days. I took two planes on
the way back to home and we getstuck for mechanical issues. So
I hit my forty two days, so Ihad to jump on the airline to
come back.
Bryan (38:13):
Oh, yeah. Why did you end up in California for that long?
Pascal (38:18):
Just to make the contract going on and the
because of the lack of people,you know, just like I said
before, everybody is back home,is off, and we have the desire
to, comply with the agreement wehad with the Los Angeles County
Fire Department so we didn'twant to say we're going back
(38:39):
home because we don't have anypilots so I forced some pilot to
go and I forced myself to go aswell So, it makes more sense to
me and, so that's why I makeforty two days, over there on
the Christmas time.
Bryan (38:54):
Okay. So let's talk a little bit about when the fires
began. From January 2025, aseries of 14 destructive
wildfires affected the LosAngeles Metropolitan Area and
San Diego County in California,United States. The fires were
exacerbated by droughtconditions, low humidity, a
buildup of vegetation from theprevious winter, and hurricane
(39:17):
force Santa Ana winds, which insome places reached 100 miles
per hour or 160 kilometers perhour. As of 01/31/2025, the
wildfires have killed at least29 people, forced more than
200,000 people to evacuate, anddestroyed more than 18,000 homes
and structures.
The wildfires have burned over57,000 acres of land in total.
(39:37):
Most of the damage was from thetwo largest fires, the Eaton
fire in Altadena and thePalisades Fire in Pacific
Palisades, both of which werefully contained on 01/31/2025.
So let's start with the day yougot the call. Can you describe
the events of January 8 when youreceived the call for the
Palisade Fire, including thewind conditions and your
decision making process?
Pascal (39:57):
Yeah. That morning was really windy. And when we got a
call, my wingman, Vashem, waslooking at the computer because
we have a small computer in thetanker base, which is basically
a fire station with camera onthe station they call 69Bravo,
and they have a wind indicationover there. And you look at the
(40:19):
computer, and it told me it is63 knots over the hill at the 69
Bravo. What we're gonna do withthe call?
Let's say we're going and we'regonna see if it's doable, if we
can do something even if we'rethinking about turbulence or
even the efficiency of the dropbecause sometimes you drop and
the water goes sideways andcannot hit the ground. For this
(40:43):
situation, we were able to toworking. So we took off and we
heading to the palace so far.This moment was around 10:45, I
think, something like that inthe morning.
Bryan (40:54):
And I think you said you had had, like, an interesting
discussion with the Chinook crewas well that morning?
Pascal (40:59):
Yeah. Just before we get a call, the guys of the Chinook,
take the Chinook and put it inthe anger, and they told us it
was too windy for for them tostart the engine. I'm not really
good with the their limitation,but they have a limitation to
start the engine of the wind,the wind direction, and the, the
wind force. So, they decided toput the Chinook inside of the
(41:19):
anchor because, they don't wannabreak it, and we get a call. And
since we don't have thelimitation for engine start or
takeoff, if we are headwind,there's no limitation for taking
off.
So there was no no problem forus to go in afar. Wow. And c l
four fifteen is a it's kind of atank of a, airplane. It's
(41:41):
really, really strong.
Bryan (41:42):
Wow. So it's so windy that a Chinook can't even start
and you guys are going out tofight a fire?
Pascal (41:48):
Yeah. Yeah. At this location, the Chinook was not
able to start. But when we getin the fire, was a there was
Chinook over there because theycame from outside of region,
know? Yep.
Maybe something like that, sothey came farther. And Chinook
from Van Nuys, they're takingoff around forty five, fifty
(42:08):
minutes after that.
Bryan (42:09):
Okay.
Pascal (42:09):
So I guess the wind kept down and they get out of the
Inger and they can join us tobattle that huge harp.
Bryan (42:17):
Wow. As we said, you decided to press and go and fly
your mission. Can you explainthe process of a flight from
start to finish?
Pascal (42:25):
Yeah. It was like a kind of a regular mission for us in
beginning. So we just starttaxiing back to the, Runway 34.
Alabama is thinking of headingto the Palisade Fire. We have a
brochure there to do to go onthe initial point to get contact
with the alco.
We get clear in, we get it in,and we do our first drop, look
(42:48):
at the ocean to try to find aspot to scoop since we were
really windy. It was, I wouldsay, around three to four feet
of wave over the ocean, which ispretty big. So we found a spot.
We try our first scoop, and wehead into the fire, and and we
get able to do 23, scoop anddrop over that fire.
Bryan (43:11):
In one flight?
Pascal (43:12):
In one flight, in that two hour and a half flight.
Bryan (43:14):
Wow. That's so busy. If you think about how many
evolutions that is and you saidtwo and a half hours? Yeah.
That's crazy.
That's that's a lot.
Pascal (43:25):
Yeah. It is. Yeah. If you get times two, it's 46 drop
for both airplane. So that'squite a bit of blood and water.
And I remember once heading toone of the drop under the smoke
column, they have a spot firejust in front of the head of the
fire and there was down thevalley heading to the drop, and
(43:45):
when I look at the house overthe valley there were people on
top of the garage terrace andthey were running out, they
didn't see the fire I guess inthe bottom and there was
something to see all the peoplearound and you know, the car jam
in the traffic. They cannot getout of the, pedestrian. So, it
(44:06):
was really it's the first time Isaw that.
Bryan (44:09):
It was the first time you saw, like, so many people at a
fire?
Pascal (44:12):
Yeah. So many people stuck trying, you know, leaving
the car there and walking toescape the the far region or,
like, the area. So that wasreally a tense of course,
everybody do their best to calmthe fire to put it out, but it
(44:33):
was really, really windy in thistime. It was really bumpy as
well. Wow.
So it was pretty it was prettyhard on the even on the plane
and on the crew, you know, wasas bumpy as, you know, if you
don't have your seat belt tightenough, you're gonna hit your
head on the roof of the plane.So
Bryan (44:51):
Wow. So would you say what? Like, moderate or severe
turbulence?
Pascal (44:56):
I would say severe for sure.
Bryan (44:58):
Wow. Yeah. Which is really intense. Like, severe
turbulence for listeners isbasically, you're not able to
control the aircraft through it.Like, not that it'll throw your
aircraft, you know, into intothe ground or something, but
you're not able to maintain yourflight path.
Pascal (45:15):
Yeah. Yep. That was exactly like that.
Bryan (45:18):
Wow.
Pascal (45:19):
But that was just briefly. That was just
momentary, you know, when youcross a ridge or, you know Yeah.
When you have, like, adowndraft, you know, you can
drop maybe under 200 feet Yeah.Pretty quick, like, 3,000 feet
per minute down and come back tonormal. So it's pretty it's
pretty rough.
Bryan (45:38):
Yeah. And doing that over and over again is exhausting.
Pascal (45:41):
Yeah. Yeah. When you just pass through, it's not that
bad. But when you walk in thatarea for two hour or three
hours, it's it's reallychallenging for the the pilot.
Bryan (45:53):
Yeah. I believe it. When you saw the fires for the first
time from the pilot's seat, whatwent through your mind?
Pascal (45:59):
Oh my god. That was that was when we just jumped over the
ridge. The fire was already big.It was growing pretty fast. It
was jumping as well since thevegetation was really dry.
So every time in between thescoop and the drop, the fire
(46:23):
situation was changing. So wereally tried to do our best to
save some people in the house. Ithink it works. Yeah. But, know,
we never we never know.
You know? It's because we we arenot in the ground just like the
firefighters. So we help forsure, but we never know if it if
it was a goal. Yeah. The goalwas achieved on that.
Bryan (46:42):
So that must be tough sometimes to not know the
outcome of your work.
Pascal (46:46):
Yeah. Yeah. It's sometimes you thinking about
that, you know, after after theaction and you say, oh, that I
should drop and that the otherfire spot that would be maybe
more effective or, you knownormally, the echo manage the
drop. They they ask where theythey want us to drop, but that
and that fire was really toobusy for everybody. So we try
(47:08):
our best to to drop on thefireworks close to the people or
house to slow down theprogression and that the people,
give time to people to exit thearea.
Bryan (47:22):
As you settled into a rhythm, what was a typical shift
like for you as a pilot? Whattime of day did you start and
how many hours a day were youflying?
Pascal (47:30):
In California, the start time is eight for normal, flying
hours, like, where where we arenot on red flag. Red flag is a
fire behavior, weather warning.So on a normal day, we start at
eight and we finish by thesunset. But on the red flag
warning, we're starting at sevenin the morning till the sunset.
(47:54):
So that's the basic day whatwe're gonna do.
For the flying hours, it dependson the everyday, every
situation. We can go up to eighthours of firefighting on the
same day, but just like I said,since we are two crew in the Los
Angeles, we're not gonna go thatfar. We're gonna do two missions
and change a crew. Even if wehave only one mission left and
(48:17):
it get into the eight hours,we're gonna do a crew change
Yeah. Just to make sure to havefresh people on-site.
Bryan (48:25):
And were you flying every day?
Pascal (48:27):
No. No. No. Depends, you know, the Los Angeles County,
they manage all the tools theyhave for the best reaction they
need to. Let's say CL415 is thebest, in my mind is the best
tool to do an initial attack.
So on the fire start, let's sayafter one or two days, all the
(48:49):
firefighter is set up, you havethe retarded line done, you have
lots of chopper, so it may benot the best tool to use. In my
mind, it's still the moreefficient tool, but, you know,
everybody's gonna see that forlike, a proper pilot gonna see
that and we're gonna see that,but when you think about it,
(49:09):
1,600 gallon times two on theinitial attack, that's the best
tool you can have on quickresponses. Even if I said it's
not fast, it's faster than achopper and we carry much more
water than a chopper as well andwe have really quick turnaround,
(49:31):
we can do just like I said 100drop in a day. So it's really
efficient on the initial attackor to protect a retardant line
but when it's too crowded on theFAR, you have to manage the
resources, you have to the bestway you need it, and even if
they have a big parasite FAR andall the other around, they still
(49:54):
have a new start, so they needto have tool to go on a new
start as well.
Bryan (49:59):
Okay.
Pascal (49:59):
So they manage that the best way then you have the crew
rest as well. It's it's reallycomplicated to manage so, that's
why we didn't fly there everyday.
Bryan (50:09):
And I imagine the days you're off, you're just resting?
Pascal (50:12):
Yeah. Because we are two crew, so we have one day zone
and one day standby. So when ona day standby, yeah, you're
just, staying around and restingand be prepared to, for the next
day or even in the afternoon orif somebody gets sick, you know,
as an example.
Bryan (50:29):
Yep. Yep. I think I've kind of figured this out from
what you've said talking aboutsunrise sunset, but do you fly
exclusively during the day or doyou make nighttime drops in the
04:15?
Pascal (50:40):
We're not able to do nighttime drops since we don't
have any night vision, goggle,or everything like that. And
even with that, we were not ableto do a scoop out of the lake
because we're you're gonna notbe able to see like a wood log
on the lake or, you know, thewind direction, the wave. It's
it's gonna be complicated with anight.
Bryan (51:02):
It'd be super dangerous.
Pascal (51:03):
Yeah. With the night vision, but I know the chopper
can do, like, night flying. Wecan do night flying for, point a
to point b on the ferry flightor, like, a positioning flight,
but we were not able to dofirefighting during the night.
Bryan (51:18):
Okay. Did you feel as though you were making a
meaningful difference when youwere making these drops or did
it ever feel hopeless with thesize of the fires?
Pascal (51:27):
I was thinking we made difference on the on the fire
for sure. Just like I saidbefore, we we're trying our best
to give people time to escapethe area. So it was really
efficient especially inCalifornia since it's more like
a brush fire so when you drop1,600 gallons of water it's
(51:48):
really efficient to count thefire or even knock it off on a
small part but with the dropthey have, it was really rapid
to relight after that. So evenif it was really efficient, it
was kind of with that force ofwind on mostly regain category
(52:10):
one, win forces that was growingreally rapidly.
Bryan (52:15):
Yeah. So it sounds like like you said, it's almost more
about giving people time to getout than at that point actually
stopping the fire. It was almosta containment thing to let
people escape.
Pascal (52:28):
In beginning was just like that, you know, to me was
when we saw people, we were justheading there and trying to,
just like I said, give them timeto escape, go somewhere. When
you see the flames going justlike everybody I've seen on the
news, see tison rolling on thestreet and everything. So was
(52:50):
something from the air but Icannot imagine from the ground
was how how hard was that to toleave that.
Bryan (52:57):
Oh yeah. I can't imagine being on the ground in that kind
of a situation.
Pascal (53:01):
Me either.
Bryan (53:03):
Can you describe what it looked like after each drop?
Could you physically see theflames go out?
Pascal (53:08):
Yeah. So when you are like, number one, it's hard to
see if the flames are going out.But on your turn, on that
particular fire, when we'returning back to the ocean, we
were able to see the spot of thedrop. The number two can easily
see the flames going out and itcan just tag and extend or roll
(53:31):
up to the first drop. So thatmakes the dropping more
efficient.
But on a turn, you can see theeven a white smoke or just like
the black area without any anysmokes, depending on the
intensity of the area you dropit.
Bryan (53:47):
Okay. So you guys could actually see it going out.
That's awesome. So obviously,was a multifaceted effort with
lots of different aircraft andfirefighting agencies involved.
But Canada and the c l fourfifteen got a lot of attention
in the media.
How did the California communityor the community of firefighters
receive you? Did they have astrong sense that they valued
your contributions to fightingthe fire?
Pascal (54:08):
I will say yes. They're already happy to see us. Just
like I said before, it's anothertool in the box of the, Hennepin
County Fire department. Justlike every entity, somebody like
us, somebody don't like us, evenon the people who can see that
in news. But mainly, I think thetool is valuable for what they
(54:31):
need to do and for the fireseason as well.
Just like I said before,sometimes the chopper cannot
take off and we can so that cancan be safe for the population
over there and everything. Soand I think the authority El
County Fire Department are awareof that. So, it's really
valuable valuable too. In mymind, of course, it's the the
(54:54):
best tool we can have to fightfor because it was engineering
for for that. Mhmm.
You know, just, chopper was notengineering to do that. It can
be really efficient as well, butwas not designed for that.
Bryan (55:06):
That's right. If you look at all the videos of all the
various firefighting aircraftthat were involved in LA, I
think the only purpose builtfirefighting aircraft there is
the c l four fifteen.
Pascal (55:16):
It is. It is. There's lots of the, whole the military
airplane was modified to doretardant drop, like Hercules
they're doing like a water dropbut it's not the same. They have
not the same impact of what wecan have since we can go right
directly in the fire. Just onthe pedestal fire, we were
(55:36):
heading to a spot fire, justtalking before, and the echo
was, after a teardrop, he said,okay guys, you cannot go there
anymore.
I think you know, the people whoare not understanding what we
are capable to with those planesbecause it's really
maneuverable, know, it's reallypowerful, so we can do a lot of
(55:59):
job with this airplane. I willnot say we can do the same job
of the chopper because thechopper can stop, can slow, it's
different but we almost can dothe same job of the chopper with
the airplane, upslope,downslope, crosswind and
everything. So we are right inmiddle of the chopper and
retardant plane. So it's kind ofreally multi purpose airplane,
(56:22):
which makes really efficient.
Bryan (56:25):
And it was kind of nice that given all the friction
between Canada and The UnitedStates that was happening at
that time, it was kind of nicethat we could send help still
and be good neighbors and putthe politics aside and and show
up for our friends.
Pascal (56:41):
Yeah. Canada and United States, my mind, was always
partner in in that. So, sincewe're going there for thirty one
years in, Los Angeles, it'scertainly a long partnership,
and I don't think anybody wantsthat ending soon No. On both
sides. So
Bryan (57:01):
So what kind of toll does it take on you emotionally
knowing the fire is out ofcontrol? People are losing their
homes and in some cases losingtheir lives. Did you have an
emotional response in thatmoment or did it maybe hit you
weeks or months after the fact?
Pascal (57:15):
Yeah. The first response was just like a normal mission,
a little bit bumpy, windy, andwhen we pass over the far after
the first drop heading to theocean, that's when I see all the
traffic jam to the PCH wasreally long line of car jam on
(57:38):
even on PCH on the all theCanyon Road. That's where I
realized there was, like, liveinvolved. So it was pretty
emotional for sure, and it washard to to see that. We are used
to see some house burning, youknow, one, two house, something
(57:58):
happened in Los Angeles.
That's the life over there. Butto see all the neighborhood like
that burning, you know, at thattime I was thinking if we can be
like all ten, four fifteen hereon the same time, can be really
big difference. But it was justlike a thinking, you know, we
(58:19):
cannot send 10 aircraft and sendthem over there, but that's what
we need for sure. And it was atthe time of the year was hard to
get even people in an airplane.So when you see after each drop
the situation going, like,pretty fast, changing pretty
(58:42):
fast and burning house, burning,like, school and everything.
It was certainly emotional tosee that, you know, we'd done
we'd done the first two hour anda half refuel and came back, and
it was changing. Was not thesame fire when we came back.
Mhmm. It was, like, bigger,closer to the shore, to the
(59:05):
ocean, and we're just trying ourbest to prevent the fire going
to the Santa Monica side. Therewas a small canyon over there,
so we're just trying to do ourbest to stop control of our so
yeah, it was the first time forme to see a live trip like that
(59:27):
and the building trip like that,like as many building as that,
you know, was full neighborhoodthat was not just just like a
one is a little house orsomething that was was was
really, really hard.
Bryan (59:40):
Yeah. Yeah. I can only imagine that must have been
really challenging and probablytough to sort of put that aside
and focus and stay sharp on themission.
Pascal (59:50):
It's hard to put on the side, but of course, you don't
have time to think really aboutthat. When you just pass over
heading to the ocean, have themind going on, but as soon as
you turn on a final to scoop onthe ocean with three feet of
wave or four feet of wave withmaybe, I don't know, it was like
(01:00:13):
maybe 40 knots on the ocean ofwind, so it was really windy. So
you didn't have time to thinkabout anything else of just
flying your plane because you'renot gonna be able to scoop on
that kind of ocean. When you'reload heading to the drop, you're
(01:00:35):
just thinking about the wayyou're gonna do it, way you're
gonna enter, exit the drop zone.So you don't think about that
either.
So there's just a small periodof time. And, of course, when
you get back home after afterthe day, you're back thinking
about of that and everything. Sothat was pretty hard.
Bryan (01:00:56):
Yeah. I can only imagine. Yeah. Okay, Pascal. That's gonna
wrap up part one of ourdiscussion on firefighting
operations in LA on the CL fourfifteen.
Thanks so much for doing whatyou do and for taking the time
to share your story with ustoday.
Pascal (01:01:10):
My pleasure.
Bryan (01:01:10):
Okay. We'll talk to you on the next one. Okay. Alright.
That wraps up part one of ourchat with Pascal Duclois about
fighting the wildfires in LA.
For our next episode, we'll talkabout some of the challenges he
and his crew faced, how thefires were finally brought under
control, as well as some of thedifferences between firefighting
in Quebec and California. Do youhave any questions or comments
(01:01:32):
about anything you've heard inthis show? Would you or someone
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show? You can reach out to us atthe
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Bryan (00:58):
Alright. We're ready for departure here at the pilot
project podcast, the best sourcefor stories and advice from RCAF
and Mission Aviation Pilotsbrought to you by Skies
Magazine. I'm your host, BrianMorrison. With me today is
Pascal Duclaud, an aerialfirefighting pilot with Servies
Aerienne Gubermantel du Quebec.Pascal, welcome to the show.
I've got a feeling this is goingto be a super interesting
(01:18):
conversation, so let's diveright in. So today, we will be
talking about Pascal's careerand flight training, and we will
be especially focusing on histime conducting firefighting
operations in the recent firesin the Los Angeles area. But
before we jump into any of that,let's go through Pascal's bio.
Passionate about aviation anddriven by the desire to fight
wildfires in Quebec, Pascalbegan his aviation career in
(01:41):
1998. To gain the necessaryexperience, he worked for
several Bush aviation companiesacross Canada honing his skills
and developing valuableexpertise in the field.
In 02/2006, he completed hisinstrument flight training at
the Centre de Formationaeronautique du Quebec. This
certification allowed him toenter the charter flight sector
where he operated flights acrossCanada and The United States.
(02:05):
His ultimate goal became areality in 02/2010 when he
joined the government airservice. For eight seasons, he
served as a tanker pilot playinga crucial role in protecting
Quebec's forests from wildfires.His dedication and experience
then led him to join thetraining team.
And by the end of 02/2022, hewas promoted to chief pilot of
the air tanker fleet. His careerhas given him the opportunity to
(02:26):
experience significant moments,including the twenty twenty
three wildfire season, '1 of themost intense in Quebec's
history, as well as the historicfires that ravaged Los Angeles
County last winter. These eventshighlight the immense challenges
faced by the aviation sector inwildfire suppression. With this
extensive experience, hecontinues his mission with
passion and commitmentcontributing to the training of
(02:47):
new generations of pilots andthe protection of our forests.
So, Pascal, what started youdown the path of chasing
aviation as a career?
Where did it all start for you?
Pascal (02:56):
Yeah. I was, interested in the high school to, become a
pilot. And, they told me I willnot be able to be a pilot
because I wasn't speakingenglish at this time so, I tried
to do something else. So Ijoined the reserve, army for a
few years and I jumped to theregular army for, about six
(03:19):
months or so. And when I decidedto quit, I was driving down on
the highway and listening to theradio, I heard, like, become a
pilot and do a flight, just aone hour flight, something like
that, just to overview of apilot.
And, that's where I started my,career after that flight.
Bryan (03:40):
Really? So how did you go about learning English then to
make sure you could be a pilot?
Pascal (03:46):
Yeah. That's, that become, after, I start the the
training as a, like, privatepilot and everything in the
private school. So that was inin process of my career because
in Quebec, you don't really needto speak English to be a pilot.
So but I since I have nobody inmy family who was a pilot, I
didn't have any expertise onthat, so, I didn't know they
(04:10):
have a private school where youcan be a pilot. So, that that
that was my, my process to to bea pilot anyway.
Bryan (04:17):
Okay. So what inspired you to make aerial firefighting
your ultimate goal?
Pascal (04:23):
When I started my private license in the Airport
Of Quebec, every time I wastaxiing to the, Runway 24, I was
passing in front of the, C L415. That's where the service
area in Grand Martel is, theparking is. And so every time I
was passing in front of thoseplanes, was watching the plane
and said, oh, one day I'm gonnafly those planes. And my
(04:44):
instructor was laughing at thattime but I guess that was normal
because lots of people thinkingabout or dreaming about flying
those planes.
Bryan (04:54):
Does your instructor know that you do it now?
Pascal (04:57):
Yeah.
Bryan (05:00):
So we're used to discussing the military flight
training system on this show.Can you tell us briefly about
the training you underwent fromgetting your PPL or private
pilot license to being qualifiedto fight fires? What ratings are
required to be a firefightingpilot?
Pascal (05:14):
Yeah. I have done my, private pretty fast in the, when
I just started in the winter, soaround 1998, and after that I
just done all of my hours to getto the commercial flight test in
the school and do the writingexam as well, but for the rest
(05:34):
of the hour, instead of doing mytwin rating, I went to the
company to do my float planerating. So I was about to do
around fifty hours, maybe fortyfive-fifty hours of flying on
floats before getting mycommercial license, which is two
hundred hours. And after that Ijust get a job, I hang around in
(05:56):
the company helping pilot thereand I'm loading and unloading
the plane and when the owner hada chance, he just offered me a
job. And around in July, thatwas my start of a commercial
flying.
I was on the EVA for floatcharter tourist sightseeing,
something like that. And Istayed there for a few years,
(06:16):
maybe three years, two years,and they had a crash. So they
shut down the company for ayear. So I moved on the
Manitoba. So that's that's comethe answer to your question of
why I why I learned my English.
I got a call from one of myfriend. Guys was looking for a
pilot in Manitoba. They arehiring me, and I was talking
(06:36):
about the with them and say, Idon't have the English level to
to work with you. And they said,no. No problem.
Everybody speak French, andthey're gonna teach you and
everything. But when I getthere, nobody was speaking
French. So I I had to learnEnglish the hard way. And after
that summer, I came back andthen the same company, they
(06:59):
restarted the operation. So I Iwith a little bit more
experience, ventilation,everything.
So they they offered me a beaverdrop, DHC two.
Bryan (07:07):
Sorry. That was on the De Havilland Beaver?
Pascal (07:09):
Yeah. De Havilland Beaver. Yeah.
Bryan (07:11):
Oh, that's a classic bush plane.
Pascal (07:12):
Yeah. Yeah. Pretty classic. Yeah. So I spent
another I worked around sevenyears, six seven, eight years on
the this company.
I was in Lechuk in Quebec. Soand after that, I get my IFR,
twin IFR rating, get up prettyfast in the same company and I
(07:32):
found the formation of Analyticsin Quebec. So after that I get
my IFR twin rating and I jump onthe charter company, different
small twin fixed wing planeflying around Northern Quebec
and East United States, Ontario,Manitoba, charter, like King Air
(07:53):
and Navarro or something likethat. And after that, I got the
interview and service and GrandMartell and I got a job in
02/2010. So that was theultimate goal.
Bryan (08:05):
Well, let me see if I can remember all that. You needed to
get your commercial, your multiengine, your IFR rating. And did
you need a float rating as wellto get that job?
Pascal (08:14):
Of course. Of course. We need the float rating to get a
Yeah. C l four fifteen. Yeah.
Because it's amphibiousairplane.
Bryan (08:20):
So Yes. Okay. Well, that's a lot of ratings to have
to collect on your own outthere.
Pascal (08:26):
Yeah. To me, it took, like, ten years. At this time,
the we have to had, fifteenhours on float before, have, I
think, the possibility to, justapply on the, CL four fifteen
pilot job. Today, we cut downthat requirement to 500. So
that's make people can applymuch sooner than it was before.
Bryan (08:49):
It was fifteen hundred and now it's just down to five
hundred?
Pascal (08:52):
Yeah. Yeah.
Bryan (08:54):
Okay. Interesting. Can I ask why that is?
Pascal (08:57):
Because we are in a shortage of pilot, of course,
the all all around the world. Sowith the, lack of people
experience on float, we had tofind a solution to find people,
and, so we we had more trainingon the new pilot. So we were
able to get lower on theexperience.
Bryan (09:19):
Okay.
Pascal (09:20):
That's the way we try to find people because we still
have 25% less people than whatwe need.
Bryan (09:27):
Oh wow. Yeah. I mean that's pretty much the story in
every aviation company, right? Imean, same with the air force. I
imagine it's pretty commonacross the whole spectrum of
aviation right now.
Pascal (09:37):
It is. It is the same same story on every company for
sure.
Bryan (09:42):
So when you arrived at the government air service, did
you feel prepared by yourprevious experience in training?
Pascal (09:47):
I would say yes and no because I was prepared to fly
the plane, let's say, normalcondition because what you're
doing is charter, right? If yougo to the bush cabin dropping
people and taking people outstuff like plywood and
everything, canoe, fourwheelers, know, ATV, something
like that, you're prepared to docharter and everything, so land,
(10:09):
drop, take something, and goback to the base. So same thing
on the twin IR charter company.But when you arrive on the
aerial firefighting, it's alittle bit different. So the
condition is different, you domultiple takeoff and landing in
the same day, that can go over100 in a day, so it's really
(10:31):
hard on the physical and mentalto stay efficient on takeoff and
landing you know and everythingso when you start it's pretty
hard and my first mission aftermy initial training was on the
Saint Lawrence River so we hadlittle bit swell and so the
(10:51):
captain started all the scoopand everything, the drop and
everything, which is normal, andwhen they gave me the control to
scoop was really terrible.
When I finished this thismission, I was I was thinking I
will not be able to scopeanymore. Yeah. So it was really
(11:13):
difficult for me. Anyway, afterafter that mission, we we had
another mission the day after,and we spent eight hours on the
other mission. It was more thanjust one or two scoop.
So I had time to acclimate and,you know, get the feeling of the
plane because when you jump on amission, you have lots of
simulator hours. But on a realplane, there was, I would say,
(11:38):
five or between five and tenhours flying maximum.
Bryan (11:41):
Okay.
Pascal (11:42):
So when you jump on a scoop and a swell and everything
was was not you don't have anytraining on the swell before you
get in because in Quebec, it'snot really often you go on the
swell. Yep. So it was reallydifficult. Yeah. So, anyway,
after after the second day, weget back to the base, and I was,
oh, that was a good day.
That was that was I was right onthe spot and I was excited about
(12:02):
the mission. So that's why yousaid yes and no. So it depends
on what you're doing and youcannot be prepared to do, I
don't know, 75 drop in the fourhour mission on the smoke of
your own and you have amountainous region. You never
know what was going to be yourfirst mission so it's going to
be hard. We have some people whohad their first mission in the
(12:25):
Los Angeles contract, theydidn't have any fire in the
summer here, they just havetraining all the summer long so
it can be really different.
You can do your first mission onthe Mentobo which is pretty
flat, there's no really mountainover there but the lake are
pretty shallow, You can have thefirst fire in the British
(12:46):
Columbia, which is really amountainous region, so it would
be pretty rough for for thefirst fire mission.
Bryan (12:54):
Yeah. It's interesting. I knew you guys were doing
operations in California andQuebec. I didn't realize that it
was Canada wide essentially thatyou're operating in.
Pascal (13:03):
Yeah. Yeah. We are operating all Canada wide from
Goose Bay to Vancouver. Justjust just depend on demand.
Bryan (13:12):
Okay. And I guess just quickly for the audience, when
you say scooping, we'll get intothis a little more when we talk
about the aircraft, but that'sbasically their scoops in the
bottom of the aircraft to scoopup water as you as you go along
the water. Right?
Pascal (13:26):
Yeah. Of course. Yeah. We on the FCL four fifteen, you
have two scoop or fill twotanks. The two tanks are split
in in two.
So you have one tank splittingwith baffle in in in middle. So
the four fifteen come withbasically four tanks, but it's
two tanks with baffle in themiddle of the transverse tank.
(13:47):
And you have two scoop, maybe 10centimeters by 15 square. So we
cannot have any fish and theyhave baffled in there as well,
cannot scoop fish, cannot scoopa diver or something like that,
(14:07):
just like legend for some puppytoll somewhere. So yeah, we just
put the scoop down.
So that's where it come from.The name of scooping, scooping
water. Okay.
Bryan (14:18):
And just out of curiosity, are those tanks
divided so that you can drop inlike quarter, like do a, you can
do four separate drops if youneed to?
Pascal (14:27):
Yeah. We can do four separate drop. We have timer on
the computer, we can set up atimer, we can do two at a time.
So there's multiple way to useit. But mainly we use it at four
in the same time.
Sometimes you can do a smalldelay in each lane with the auto
four, that's the way we call it,auto four, so automatic four
(14:48):
doors with a small timer inbetween each door. This more
mainly for the crash fires,something like that. Sometimes
you have to do a longer line. Soit's gonna be more straight line
than a less wide so you can cando a longer line.
Bryan (15:05):
Okay. What specific training did you receive as a
new pilot joining the aerialfirefighting team?
Pascal (15:12):
It start with the in class training. So in beginning,
you you start to learn all the,like, every other planes, you
start to learn all of thelimitation of the plane, the
system, and everything on theclass. And after that, you jump
on all the normal training classyou have to do for every other
(15:32):
company, like high altitude, theoxygen, and everything. You have
to do all the same training. Andafter that, we jump on the
training, so that's where itstarts to split from, let's say,
the airline training.
Of course, they do training onsimulator but they mainly do IFR
training and emergency. We doIFR training, emergency, and we
(15:54):
do also scooping and firemission training in the
simulator. And we, for the newpilot, took around twenty,
twenty five hours on thesimulator instead of five or six
hour, I think, if I rememberwell on the airline for initial.
So let's say the double offlight simulator training in the
(16:18):
scooper. We're gonna go throughall the emergency and the QRH,
so it took time but after thatthe candidate is really ready to
go on the plane.
So because we finished thetraining on the plane. Just like
I said, we don't have the fullflight simulators, so we have to
do a training flight. So afterthat, we do two, three flights
(16:41):
with the guys, the candidate,and we do the PPC.
Bryan (16:44):
What's a PPC?
Pascal (16:46):
It's a pilot proficiency check.
Bryan (16:48):
Okay.
Pascal (16:49):
So it's a check check ride, basically check ride, to
comply with the Transport Canadaregulation. And after that, we
do our line check. That's whatthey call in the airline, the
line check. It's a FAR missionwith one of our check pilots,
our trainer pilot. So we do aFAR mission that can be
(17:09):
simulated or a real one.
We try to do real one becauseit's gonna have small
environmental and other traffic,everything so when we go on a
far, small airport is gonna bein place. Have guys on top of
us, we have a helco top of usmanaging the traffic and
(17:30):
everything. So just to make surethe guys understand all the the
movement and the situationawareness around that so before
putting the new guys with a acaptain on the line. Right. We
try to do our best too.
So and after that fire, the guysis if he understands all the
thing, we release the guys onthe on the line, and that's
(17:53):
that's the whole process for thenew guy.
Bryan (17:55):
Yeah. Wow.
Pascal (17:56):
It took around between one and two months, depending of
the Okay. The season and theavailability availability and
the the weather around.
Bryan (18:05):
So that's a lot to do in one to two months. So that must
be, like, a pretty intensecouple months.
Pascal (18:10):
It is. It is. Actually.
Bryan (18:13):
Just quickly, you mentioned HELCO. That's a
helicopter controller. Right?
Pascal (18:17):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It it stands for helicopter
controller. Yeah.
Bryan (18:20):
Okay. And we'll talk more about that in a bit. What is the
upgrade process with the Quebecgovernment air service?
Pascal (18:27):
It mainly goes by seniority in Quebec since it's
governmental. It took aroundseven years before you can be
upgraded. That Minimum is fivehundred hours in the company,
that's the requirement for thecompany, and it goes by
simulator with our instructorhere, and you're gonna go more
(18:51):
deeper in each exercise so justto be prepared to be a captain
and not first officer anymore,just to take decision and
everything. So it's not reallyonly on the way you do the
procedure, read and do, it'smore like go deeper in decision
making and everything. Becauseyou cannot go in aerial
(19:14):
firefighting.
Since we're scoping out of thelake, we didn't know it's not
operating on the runway andeverything, so it's gonna change
every time you go, and sometimesit changes on the same mission.
You go in the same lake andduring the four hours the wind
change, the smoke change, youhave to change the line,
(19:36):
sometimes you change from 180degrees to be on the lake
because you cannot scoop on theother side anymore because the
fire is too big, it's just gonnacreate this zone, the water
system, let's say.
Bryan (19:48):
Oh, wow.
Pascal (19:48):
So that's why we we go a little bit deeper. After the
simulator it's not that long,maybe eight hours, nine hours of
simulator outside. And afterthat, we're gonna go on plane
because our simulator is not alevel d like for motion, it's
just a basic flight simulator.So after that we go on the
(20:10):
plane, we do the training itneeds to be captain and after
that is kind of a we're gonna dothe PPC on the left seat to be
captain and we're gonna beforethe release, that's the biggest
part, before the release, we flysome of the instructor or me as
chief pilot, we fly with thecandidate and make sure he can
(20:34):
manage the plane on almost everysituation, let's say, because of
course we cannot do allsituations with him, but we're
gonna try to do a few hours withhim, five hours or five
missions, something like that,depend of the candidate and
everything. Just to make surehe's he's good enough to manage
everything because you neverknow.
(20:54):
He can can be posted on a on amission with the brand new guys,
So I'm gonna have to manage thenew guys so that the the the can
make it. So we have to be sureit's accurate. You know?
Bryan (21:08):
Yeah. It actually sounds a lot like the upgrade process
within most fleets in themilitary. Just like you said, a
a bigger focus on decisionmaking, a bigger focus on
monitoring junior pilots. As yousaid, there's a lot more to it
than just conducting themission.
Pascal (21:24):
Yes. Yes.
Bryan (21:27):
So let's get into a bit of a general operations in
aerial firefighting. Mostlisteners likely aren't aware of
what aerial firefighting lookslike in North America. Can you
share with us what a career inaerial firefighting entails? Now
we've talked a little bit abouthow it differs by province, but
is it contracted by season orare the pilots employed year
round?
Pascal (21:46):
Yeah. Just like we said, province by province, it's it's
gonna be different forfirefighting with all the
terrain and everything, ocean,and and we have a contract as
well in The United States. For,the employee of Service
Encryment Capital, we are paidyear round. So we're doing
basically, we're doing three ona recurrent training. It's a
three weeks, five days on, twodays off, just like a normal
(22:09):
schedule.
And after that, it jumps on thefifteen days on, three days off
until almost the September. Sothat's gonna be almost the end
of the season, fire season inQuebec, but we still have fire
until November now. We're gonnahave thirty days to do in a row
(22:32):
after the schedule of it,fifteen days on and three days
off. So that's gonna make us allthe hours per year as a, like,
governmental employee.
Bryan (22:43):
Okay.
Pascal (22:44):
And that that thirty days is mainly used to do the
contract outside of Quebec. Butsome some of our guys are not
checked to go outside, sothey're gonna do the thirty days
in Quebec. So that's gonnacomplete all the the season. The
season begin on the April 1 forthe fire response until the
(23:04):
November 15 in Quebec.
Bryan (23:06):
Okay. And then after that, you've got your season in
California.
Pascal (23:11):
Yeah. In California, the season start over there on
September 1, and the initialagreement is a ninety day.
Bryan (23:19):
Okay. What do aerial firefighters do outside of
wildfire season?
Pascal (23:24):
Some have other job, during the winter. They kept the
older job they have just in parttime during the winter.
Bryan (23:32):
Okay.
Pascal (23:33):
But most of the people just enjoying the, winter, let's
say, off or holiday, passingtime with the family and just
try to catch up the time youmiss with them in the summer.
Bryan (23:46):
Yeah. I imagine this job has you away from home a lot.
Pascal (23:50):
Yeah. Yeah. We spend around, I don't know, maybe
hundred and ten, hundred andtwenty days out of a home Wow.
With the contract in LosAngeles.
Bryan (24:01):
That's tough.
Pascal (24:02):
Yeah. Yeah. It is tough. Yeah. But it's not just some job
are tougher than others, youknow.
If you're talking about the armyor something like that, somebody
leave for six months in a row,so we're leaving for the biggest
stretch we're doing. It's,twenty eight days, thirty days
(24:22):
in the, in Los Angelescontracts.
Bryan (24:26):
So the c l four fifteen is a twin engine fixed wing
amphibious aircraft used forwater bombing. Apart from
yourself, who else is on boardthe c l four fifteen when you're
conducting firefightingoperations?
Pascal (24:36):
On the firefighting operation, we are only captain
and copilot on board.
Bryan (24:40):
Okay.
Pascal (24:41):
We are not allowed to put any people on the jump seat
for water bombing operationsince they we are on a
restricted certificate.
Bryan (24:50):
Okay. So just a crew of two?
Pascal (24:53):
Yep.
Bryan (24:54):
For people who are unfamiliar with the four
fifteen, can you give us a senseof how big it is, how much water
it can carry, and any otherfacts and figures that would
help put that in perspective?
Pascal (25:03):
Yeah. The, CL four fifteen is around 100 feet wide
and can carry up 1,600 US gallonof water or if you prefer, 6,137
liter of water, the lift offweight is 47,000 pounds when we
get out of the scoop, out of thelake. So it's pretty big
(25:25):
airplane, but it's not reallyfast airplane. It's fast, but
it's not as fast as a jetairplane for sure. Mhmm.
So it's it's reallymaneuverable, so we can do a
tight turn. You can do prettyslow flight. When we go to the
drop, we slow the flight at a 10knots. Oh, wow. It's pretty
(25:46):
slow.
Bryan (25:47):
Yeah. And then just for listeners who are not super
familiar with how that wouldwork, basically, the slower you
go, the tighter you can turn. SoI imagine that would be really
helpful in the terrain you guyswere flying in in California,
for example, where there's a lotof, hills and valleys and and
things like that.
Pascal (26:05):
Yeah. We can turn turn pretty tight, Flat 15 and slow
down the airplane. You can turnpretty tight.
Bryan (26:11):
Awesome. Does the c l four fifteen ever carry fire
retardant or just water? And canyou explain the difference in
strategy and execution betweendropping water and fire
retardant?
Pascal (26:22):
We are about to have kind of a fire retardant. We we
call that foam. It's basicallysoap. You're gonna mix with
water. We have a pump insidewith the control in the cockpit.
So we can add that to the water.That's the same way to think
when you use foam on the water,it's gonna cut the air to the
(26:46):
fire and keep the moisture inthe vegetation. When we bottle a
if you drop foam or you dropretardant, you don't want to
drop water over that so you haveto drop in between let's say the
fire retardant and the fire ordirectly on the FAR. The CL415
(27:08):
is, to my knowledge, the onlycapable machine who go right
into the smoke with it's mainlydesigned to go the majority in
the smoke so we can pass throughthe fire and, drop right in the,
the flames. On the otherairplane, you have the risk of a
compressor stall and everything,so because of the difference of
(27:30):
temperature and everything.
So
Bryan (27:31):
Oh, wow. So the CL four fifteen is engineered so that
they don't run into those kindsof issues?
Pascal (27:37):
Yeah. Yeah. We have they're called HBB and the blink
valve. So that's gonna preventfrom the surge of the
compressor.
Bryan (27:44):
Okay. Well, that's really interesting. I never even
thought about that being anissue but that's really cool.
Pascal (27:51):
Yeah. I hate this school.
Bryan (27:53):
And just so I understand, when it comes to fire retardant
versus water, water I believeyou're dropping on the fire and
retardant you're dropping aheadof the fire. Ahead of the fire.
Is that roughly correct?
Pascal (28:04):
Yeah. Yeah. It's a good way to see it. With foam, you
sometimes we put it directly onthe fire, but, when you have a
big open flame, it's not reallyefficient to put the foam
directly on the big open flame.The foam is lighter with when
it's mixed, so it can pop upwith the updraft and everything
of the heat, you
Bryan (28:24):
know? Okay.
Pascal (28:24):
So you prefer to put water. And if you have just a
small open flame all over theplace, you can put foam without
any problem. So that's gonna cutthe air and everything.
Bryan (28:35):
Okay.
Pascal (28:35):
So that's a baseline.
Bryan (28:37):
Okay. How do you assess the winds for a drop and how
does this factor influence yourapproach?
Pascal (28:43):
In Quebec, we try to do mainly headwind drop. So if you
go headwind, the drop will stopwith the wind and drop right.
It's easier from, from myperspective to drop in the right
place. But sometimes you are notable to do it because of the
mountain or power line oranything you have in the
(29:05):
undermantle of the forest orsometimes you have to to go
crosswind, downwind or so thedrop will drift, so you have to
adjust your drop. And everythinggoes by, let's say, fading
experience, so you have tomanage the wind drift and the
(29:26):
wind force, so you have tomanage that.
Since we're flying two in theformation, the first one drop,
the second one can adjust thedrop with what he saw in in
front of him. So I can adjust,let's say, one wing to the left
or one wing to the right or alittle bit later or sooner,
(29:46):
depending on what is on front.
Bryan (29:48):
Okay.
Pascal (29:49):
So it's always easier to be second instead of the first
one.
Bryan (29:54):
Yeah. And I was gonna ask that the CL415s fly in a
formation of two whilefirefighting. Is that the
biggest reason behind it thatyou have that chance then to
adjust based on the drop infront of you?
Pascal (30:04):
So one of the reasons for sure, but it's not the only
reason. It's just more efficientto have two planes at the same
time. So the goal to achieve thesuppression of fire, it's put
more water by the hour on thefire. So if you have a small
(30:25):
fire, it took really a lot ofwater to put it out. So if we
are too, we're gonna work halfof the hour we have to fly
before come down the fire.
I say I say put it off, butmainly we do not put it off the
fire, it's the ground crew, whojust come come the fire so the
(30:48):
crew can go and shut up the, thefire, you know.
Bryan (30:52):
So you guys are more controlling the fire until the
ground firefighters can put itout?
Pascal (30:56):
Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's the, that's the way it
goes.
Bryan (31:01):
Okay.
Pascal (31:02):
Sometime on a small fire, you can put it out, but
mainly on the big fire, it's, itgo too deeper in the in the
ground. So the water you'regonna drop from this from the
sky will not go as deep as theyneed it.
Bryan (31:14):
Okay. Can you take us through how you do a drop from
start to finish?
Pascal (31:19):
Yeah. We'll try it. So first, I would say from Quebec
or Canada, we took off from theairport heading to the far
mission coordinate we have. Andwe found a lake the closest by
the far as possible to be moreefficient. And by the time we
find the lake, sometime we'llhave one well, the lead plane
(31:39):
gonna go over the far, have aview of the far and everything
to look at the way we're gonnadrop if the situation is
possible.
Otherwise, we're gonna bothscoop the water and go over the
fire and have a look of thesituation awareness, mountain,
power line, entry, exit. And ifit if it's not complicated,
(32:04):
we're gonna do the drop, so dothe pattern just like you do in
the airport and just drop andreload and come back until the
guys on top of us, the ghostsaid we have enough so we can go
back home. If it's morecomplicated, we can do a dry run
or, let's say, if we havefirefighters on the ground,
(32:25):
sometimes we have no contactwith them. So by doing a dry
run, they're gonna see us andthey're gonna put the water hose
throwing water out of the of thetrees, so we're gonna see them.
So that's gonna tell us theythey have to see us and they're
gonna get out of the way becauseyou don't wanna drop water and,
(32:47):
let's say broke a tree and thetree would fall on the
firefighter.
That's that's not the way youwanna do it. It's can be
dangerous if if somebody is onthe ground. Yeah. Depending on
the visitation you have, youknow. So that's basically the
the way we do it.
Bryan (33:02):
Okay. What is the typical time frame from receiving a call
to launching an aerialfirefighting mission?
Pascal (33:09):
When we are on alert, we have three degrees of alert. We
have one. It's called green.It's a one hour response before
taking off. We have yellow,which is thirty minutes, and we
have red, which is, fifteenminutes.
Oh, wow. I will say it'sbasically the same of a, army.
You know, you have degree ofalert, and you have to be ready
(33:31):
to taking off. When we are allin Quebec, nobody is requesting.
We have two hours before takingoff.
So that's the baseline. Back inthe years in Los Angeles, we had
around five minutes beforetaking off. Yeah, were in the
tanker base, the plane is ready,check, fuel, just jumping and
(33:53):
taking off. The way we aresituated in the Van Nuys
Airport. We are just across ofthe Van Nuys, so it's pretty
fast to taking off.
And we have a prior priorityjust like Midevac. Right. So
when we are in a formation, it'sit's pretty quick at the end of
year.
Bryan (34:11):
Okay. So let's talk a little bit about the contract in
California, the rotations thatpersonnel do, and some of the
challenges you've had lately.Let's set the stage a little
here. The c l four fifteen hasbeen involved in firefighting in
California for decades. Can youtell us about when you folks are
normally in California and whatthe start or end of the fire
(34:31):
season looks like?
Pascal (34:33):
Yeah. Just like I said before, we start the agreement
to be ready for firefighting inLos Angeles, September First,
and it's for ninety days. So itlead to basically December 1,
and we are two sail four fifteenover there with two crew, so
that make us able to do a firemission between the sunrise and
(34:54):
sunset.
Bryan (34:54):
Okay.
Pascal (34:55):
So in the in the September, the day is longer so
we need to have two crew perplane and even in December when
the day is shorter from October,they have what they call over
there a Santa Ana wind, that thewind comes from the desert, it
goes pretty just like we saw inJanuary, it goes pretty strong
(35:17):
and it came with the low levelof humidity and heating. So it's
really challenging, it's reallyrough on the pilot or the crew.
So, after two missions, whatwe're doing is we do a crew
change. So even if the pilotstill have the ability of
flying, we're gonna do a crewchange just to make sure we have
(35:39):
a fresh crew in the airplane. Sothat's the basic condition that
what we have over there.
And of course, we have ourtechnician with us. So we have
four technician with us at alltime in Los Angeles. So that's
make us really able to do,mission and, maintenance during
the fire season over there.
Bryan (36:01):
And we talked a little bit about this in our pre
interview call. What are theconditions required for you guys
to head back to Quebec?
Pascal (36:09):
Normally, there's lots of condition, but, the baseline
is, when you get two inches ofrain, you're gonna be released
and heading back to Quebec, butthere's something hiding on
that. The availability of theairplane from the Los Angeles
County, The crew, if they have,let's say they have it, just
(36:32):
like us, probably the lack of,hiring pilots over there
firefighting on the ground, sothe resources is another
condition before releasing us.And of course the weather, just
like I said, two inches of rain,but let's say we have two inches
of rain, but they have a SantaAna prediction just like last
winter, with a really strongSanta Ana wind coming in a week,
(36:55):
they can say we're gonna keepyou for another week or
something like that because theyanticipate maybe a problem with
the fire suppression.
Bryan (37:05):
Okay. So basically, you can go home when there's two
inches of rain in the forecast,no Santa Ana winds, and enough
crews and aircraft to manage thefires. Exactly. Okay. That makes
sense.
What does a normal rotation looklike for a pilot coming to
California?
Pascal (37:23):
Normally, the pilot, doing twenty eight days rotation
in California. So, yeah, we dotwenty eight days, came back
home. And when we have enoughcrew, it's gonna be it for for
them for for the year. But sincewe are missing some crew, we're
doing, like, multiple rotationor even can go all the way to,
(37:45):
the maximum of the regulation,which is forty two day.
Bryan (37:49):
And forty two days, can you tell us about when you
arrived in California and howlong you ended up being there?
Pascal (37:55):
Yeah. My last petition start on the December 25, and I
stayed there for almost fortytwo days. I took two planes on
the way back to home and we getstuck for mechanical issues. So
I hit my forty two days, so Ihad to jump on the airline to
come back.
Bryan (38:13):
Oh, yeah. Why did you end up in California for that long?
Pascal (38:18):
Just to make the contract going on and the
because of the lack of people,you know, just like I said
before, everybody is back home,is off, and we have the desire
to, comply with the agreement wehad with the Los Angeles County
Fire Department so we didn'twant to say we're going back
(38:39):
home because we don't have anypilots so I forced some pilot to
go and I forced myself to go aswell So, it makes more sense to
me and, so that's why I makeforty two days, over there on
the Christmas time.
Bryan (38:54):
Okay. So let's talk a little bit about when the fires
began. From January 2025, aseries of 14 destructive
wildfires affected the LosAngeles Metropolitan Area and
San Diego County in California,United States. The fires were
exacerbated by droughtconditions, low humidity, a
buildup of vegetation from theprevious winter, and hurricane
(39:17):
force Santa Ana winds, which insome places reached 100 miles
per hour or 160 kilometers perhour. As of 01/31/2025, the
wildfires have killed at least29 people, forced more than
200,000 people to evacuate, anddestroyed more than 18,000 homes
and structures.
The wildfires have burned over57,000 acres of land in total.
(39:37):
Most of the damage was from thetwo largest fires, the Eaton
fire in Altadena and thePalisades Fire in Pacific
Palisades, both of which werefully contained on 01/31/2025.
So let's start with the day yougot the call. Can you describe
the events of January 8 when youreceived the call for the
Palisade Fire, including thewind conditions and your
decision making process?
Pascal (39:57):
Yeah. That morning was really windy. And when we got a
call, my wingman, Vashem, waslooking at the computer because
we have a small computer in thetanker base, which is basically
a fire station with camera onthe station they call 69Bravo,
and they have a wind indicationover there. And you look at the
(40:19):
computer, and it told me it is63 knots over the hill at the 69
Bravo. What we're gonna do withthe call?
Let's say we're going and we'regonna see if it's doable, if we
can do something even if we'rethinking about turbulence or
even the efficiency of the dropbecause sometimes you drop and
the water goes sideways andcannot hit the ground. For this
(40:43):
situation, we were able to toworking. So we took off and we
heading to the palace so far.This moment was around 10:45, I
think, something like that inthe morning.
Bryan (40:54):
And I think you said you had had, like, an interesting
discussion with the Chinook crewas well that morning?
Pascal (40:59):
Yeah. Just before we get a call, the guys of the Chinook,
take the Chinook and put it inthe anger, and they told us it
was too windy for for them tostart the engine. I'm not really
good with the their limitation,but they have a limitation to
start the engine of the wind,the wind direction, and the, the
wind force. So, they decided toput the Chinook inside of the
(41:19):
anchor because, they don't wannabreak it, and we get a call. And
since we don't have thelimitation for engine start or
takeoff, if we are headwind,there's no limitation for taking
off.
So there was no no problem forus to go in afar. Wow. And c l
four fifteen is a it's kind of atank of a, airplane. It's
(41:41):
really, really strong.
Bryan (41:42):
Wow. So it's so windy that a Chinook can't even start
and you guys are going out tofight a fire?
Pascal (41:48):
Yeah. Yeah. At this location, the Chinook was not
able to start. But when we getin the fire, was a there was
Chinook over there because theycame from outside of region,
know? Yep.
Maybe something like that, sothey came farther. And Chinook
from Van Nuys, they're takingoff around forty five, fifty
(42:08):
minutes after that.
Bryan (42:09):
Okay.
Pascal (42:09):
So I guess the wind kept down and they get out of the
Inger and they can join us tobattle that huge harp.
Bryan (42:17):
Wow. As we said, you decided to press and go and fly
your mission. Can you explainthe process of a flight from
start to finish?
Pascal (42:25):
Yeah. It was like a kind of a regular mission for us in
beginning. So we just starttaxiing back to the, Runway 34.
Alabama is thinking of headingto the Palisade Fire. We have a
brochure there to do to go onthe initial point to get contact
with the alco.
We get clear in, we get it in,and we do our first drop, look
(42:48):
at the ocean to try to find aspot to scoop since we were
really windy. It was, I wouldsay, around three to four feet
of wave over the ocean, which ispretty big. So we found a spot.
We try our first scoop, and wehead into the fire, and and we
get able to do 23, scoop anddrop over that fire.
Bryan (43:11):
In one flight?
Pascal (43:12):
In one flight, in that two hour and a half flight.
Bryan (43:14):
Wow. That's so busy. If you think about how many
evolutions that is and you saidtwo and a half hours? Yeah.
That's crazy.
That's that's a lot.
Pascal (43:25):
Yeah. It is. Yeah. If you get times two, it's 46 drop
for both airplane. So that'squite a bit of blood and water.
And I remember once heading toone of the drop under the smoke
column, they have a spot firejust in front of the head of the
fire and there was down thevalley heading to the drop, and
(43:45):
when I look at the house overthe valley there were people on
top of the garage terrace andthey were running out, they
didn't see the fire I guess inthe bottom and there was
something to see all the peoplearound and you know, the car jam
in the traffic. They cannot getout of the, pedestrian. So, it
(44:06):
was really it's the first time Isaw that.
Bryan (44:09):
It was the first time you saw, like, so many people at a
fire?
Pascal (44:12):
Yeah. So many people stuck trying, you know, leaving
the car there and walking toescape the the far region or,
like, the area. So that wasreally a tense of course,
everybody do their best to calmthe fire to put it out, but it
(44:33):
was really, really windy in thistime. It was really bumpy as
well. Wow.
So it was pretty it was prettyhard on the even on the plane
and on the crew, you know, wasas bumpy as, you know, if you
don't have your seat belt tightenough, you're gonna hit your
head on the roof of the plane.So
Bryan (44:51):
Wow. So would you say what? Like, moderate or severe
turbulence?
Pascal (44:56):
I would say severe for sure.
Bryan (44:58):
Wow. Yeah. Which is really intense. Like, severe
turbulence for listeners isbasically, you're not able to
control the aircraft through it.Like, not that it'll throw your
aircraft, you know, into intothe ground or something, but
you're not able to maintain yourflight path.
Pascal (45:15):
Yeah. Yep. That was exactly like that.
Bryan (45:18):
Wow.
Pascal (45:19):
But that was just briefly. That was just
momentary, you know, when youcross a ridge or, you know Yeah.
When you have, like, adowndraft, you know, you can
drop maybe under 200 feet Yeah.Pretty quick, like, 3,000 feet
per minute down and come back tonormal. So it's pretty it's
pretty rough.
Bryan (45:38):
Yeah. And doing that over and over again is exhausting.
Pascal (45:41):
Yeah. Yeah. When you just pass through, it's not that
bad. But when you walk in thatarea for two hour or three
hours, it's it's reallychallenging for the the pilot.
Bryan (45:53):
Yeah. I believe it. When you saw the fires for the first
time from the pilot's seat, whatwent through your mind?
Pascal (45:59):
Oh my god. That was that was when we just jumped over the
ridge. The fire was already big.It was growing pretty fast. It
was jumping as well since thevegetation was really dry.
So every time in between thescoop and the drop, the fire
(46:23):
situation was changing. So wereally tried to do our best to
save some people in the house. Ithink it works. Yeah. But, know,
we never we never know.
You know? It's because we we arenot in the ground just like the
firefighters. So we help forsure, but we never know if it if
it was a goal. Yeah. The goalwas achieved on that.
Bryan (46:42):
So that must be tough sometimes to not know the
outcome of your work.
Pascal (46:46):
Yeah. Yeah. It's sometimes you thinking about
that, you know, after after theaction and you say, oh, that I
should drop and that the otherfire spot that would be maybe
more effective or, you knownormally, the echo manage the
drop. They they ask where theythey want us to drop, but that
and that fire was really toobusy for everybody. So we try
(47:08):
our best to to drop on thefireworks close to the people or
house to slow down theprogression and that the people,
give time to people to exit thearea.
Bryan (47:22):
As you settled into a rhythm, what was a typical shift
like for you as a pilot? Whattime of day did you start and
how many hours a day were youflying?
Pascal (47:30):
In California, the start time is eight for normal, flying
hours, like, where where we arenot on red flag. Red flag is a
fire behavior, weather warning.So on a normal day, we start at
eight and we finish by thesunset. But on the red flag
warning, we're starting at sevenin the morning till the sunset.
(47:54):
So that's the basic day whatwe're gonna do.
For the flying hours, it dependson the everyday, every
situation. We can go up to eighthours of firefighting on the
same day, but just like I said,since we are two crew in the Los
Angeles, we're not gonna go thatfar. We're gonna do two missions
and change a crew. Even if wehave only one mission left and
(48:17):
it get into the eight hours,we're gonna do a crew change
Yeah. Just to make sure to havefresh people on-site.
Bryan (48:25):
And were you flying every day?
Pascal (48:27):
No. No. No. Depends, you know, the Los Angeles County,
they manage all the tools theyhave for the best reaction they
need to. Let's say CL415 is thebest, in my mind is the best
tool to do an initial attack.
So on the fire start, let's sayafter one or two days, all the
(48:49):
firefighter is set up, you havethe retarded line done, you have
lots of chopper, so it may benot the best tool to use. In my
mind, it's still the moreefficient tool, but, you know,
everybody's gonna see that forlike, a proper pilot gonna see
that and we're gonna see that,but when you think about it,
(49:09):
1,600 gallon times two on theinitial attack, that's the best
tool you can have on quickresponses. Even if I said it's
not fast, it's faster than achopper and we carry much more
water than a chopper as well andwe have really quick turnaround,
(49:31):
we can do just like I said 100drop in a day. So it's really
efficient on the initial attackor to protect a retardant line
but when it's too crowded on theFAR, you have to manage the
resources, you have to the bestway you need it, and even if
they have a big parasite FAR andall the other around, they still
(49:54):
have a new start, so they needto have tool to go on a new
start as well.
Bryan (49:59):
Okay.
Pascal (49:59):
So they manage that the best way then you have the crew
rest as well. It's it's reallycomplicated to manage so, that's
why we didn't fly there everyday.
Bryan (50:09):
And I imagine the days you're off, you're just resting?
Pascal (50:12):
Yeah. Because we are two crew, so we have one day zone
and one day standby. So when ona day standby, yeah, you're
just, staying around and restingand be prepared to, for the next
day or even in the afternoon orif somebody gets sick, you know,
as an example.
Bryan (50:29):
Yep. Yep. I think I've kind of figured this out from
what you've said talking aboutsunrise sunset, but do you fly
exclusively during the day or doyou make nighttime drops in the
04:15?
Pascal (50:40):
We're not able to do nighttime drops since we don't
have any night vision, goggle,or everything like that. And
even with that, we were not ableto do a scoop out of the lake
because we're you're gonna notbe able to see like a wood log
on the lake or, you know, thewind direction, the wave. It's
it's gonna be complicated with anight.
Bryan (51:02):
It'd be super dangerous.
Pascal (51:03):
Yeah. With the night vision, but I know the chopper
can do, like, night flying. Wecan do night flying for, point a
to point b on the ferry flightor, like, a positioning flight,
but we were not able to dofirefighting during the night.
Bryan (51:18):
Okay. Did you feel as though you were making a
meaningful difference when youwere making these drops or did
it ever feel hopeless with thesize of the fires?
Pascal (51:27):
I was thinking we made difference on the on the fire
for sure. Just like I saidbefore, we we're trying our best
to give people time to escapethe area. So it was really
efficient especially inCalifornia since it's more like
a brush fire so when you drop1,600 gallons of water it's
(51:48):
really efficient to count thefire or even knock it off on a
small part but with the dropthey have, it was really rapid
to relight after that. So evenif it was really efficient, it
was kind of with that force ofwind on mostly regain category
(52:10):
one, win forces that was growingreally rapidly.
Bryan (52:15):
Yeah. So it sounds like like you said, it's almost more
about giving people time to getout than at that point actually
stopping the fire. It was almosta containment thing to let
people escape.
Pascal (52:28):
In beginning was just like that, you know, to me was
when we saw people, we were justheading there and trying to,
just like I said, give them timeto escape, go somewhere. When
you see the flames going justlike everybody I've seen on the
news, see tison rolling on thestreet and everything. So was
(52:50):
something from the air but Icannot imagine from the ground
was how how hard was that to toleave that.
Bryan (52:57):
Oh yeah. I can't imagine being on the ground in that kind
of a situation.
Pascal (53:01):
Me either.
Bryan (53:03):
Can you describe what it looked like after each drop?
Could you physically see theflames go out?
Pascal (53:08):
Yeah. So when you are like, number one, it's hard to
see if the flames are going out.But on your turn, on that
particular fire, when we'returning back to the ocean, we
were able to see the spot of thedrop. The number two can easily
see the flames going out and itcan just tag and extend or roll
(53:31):
up to the first drop. So thatmakes the dropping more
efficient.
But on a turn, you can see theeven a white smoke or just like
the black area without any anysmokes, depending on the
intensity of the area you dropit.
Bryan (53:47):
Okay. So you guys could actually see it going out.
That's awesome. So obviously,was a multifaceted effort with
lots of different aircraft andfirefighting agencies involved.
But Canada and the c l fourfifteen got a lot of attention
in the media.
How did the California communityor the community of firefighters
receive you? Did they have astrong sense that they valued
your contributions to fightingthe fire?
Pascal (54:08):
I will say yes. They're already happy to see us. Just
like I said before, it's anothertool in the box of the, Hennepin
County Fire department. Justlike every entity, somebody like
us, somebody don't like us, evenon the people who can see that
in news. But mainly, I think thetool is valuable for what they
(54:31):
need to do and for the fireseason as well.
Just like I said before,sometimes the chopper cannot
take off and we can so that cancan be safe for the population
over there and everything. Soand I think the authority El
County Fire Department are awareof that. So, it's really
valuable valuable too. In mymind, of course, it's the the
(54:54):
best tool we can have to fightfor because it was engineering
for for that. Mhmm.
You know, just, chopper was notengineering to do that. It can
be really efficient as well, butwas not designed for that.
Bryan (55:06):
That's right. If you look at all the videos of all the
various firefighting aircraftthat were involved in LA, I
think the only purpose builtfirefighting aircraft there is
the c l four fifteen.
Pascal (55:16):
It is. It is. There's lots of the, whole the military
airplane was modified to doretardant drop, like Hercules
they're doing like a water dropbut it's not the same. They have
not the same impact of what wecan have since we can go right
directly in the fire. Just onthe pedestal fire, we were
(55:36):
heading to a spot fire, justtalking before, and the echo
was, after a teardrop, he said,okay guys, you cannot go there
anymore.
I think you know, the people whoare not understanding what we
are capable to with those planesbecause it's really
maneuverable, know, it's reallypowerful, so we can do a lot of
(55:59):
job with this airplane. I willnot say we can do the same job
of the chopper because thechopper can stop, can slow, it's
different but we almost can dothe same job of the chopper with
the airplane, upslope,downslope, crosswind and
everything. So we are right inmiddle of the chopper and
retardant plane. So it's kind ofreally multi purpose airplane,
(56:22):
which makes really efficient.
Bryan (56:25):
And it was kind of nice that given all the friction
between Canada and The UnitedStates that was happening at
that time, it was kind of nicethat we could send help still
and be good neighbors and putthe politics aside and and show
up for our friends.
Pascal (56:41):
Yeah. Canada and United States, my mind, was always
partner in in that. So, sincewe're going there for thirty one
years in, Los Angeles, it'scertainly a long partnership,
and I don't think anybody wantsthat ending soon No. On both
sides. So
Bryan (57:01):
So what kind of toll does it take on you emotionally
knowing the fire is out ofcontrol? People are losing their
homes and in some cases losingtheir lives. Did you have an
emotional response in thatmoment or did it maybe hit you
weeks or months after the fact?
Pascal (57:15):
Yeah. The first response was just like a normal mission,
a little bit bumpy, windy, andwhen we pass over the far after
the first drop heading to theocean, that's when I see all the
traffic jam to the PCH wasreally long line of car jam on
(57:38):
even on PCH on the all theCanyon Road. That's where I
realized there was, like, liveinvolved. So it was pretty
emotional for sure, and it washard to to see that. We are used
to see some house burning, youknow, one, two house, something
(57:58):
happened in Los Angeles.
That's the life over there. Butto see all the neighborhood like
that burning, you know, at thattime I was thinking if we can be
like all ten, four fifteen hereon the same time, can be really
big difference. But it was justlike a thinking, you know, we
(58:19):
cannot send 10 aircraft and sendthem over there, but that's what
we need for sure. And it was atthe time of the year was hard to
get even people in an airplane.So when you see after each drop
the situation going, like,pretty fast, changing pretty
(58:42):
fast and burning house, burning,like, school and everything.
It was certainly emotional tosee that, you know, we'd done
we'd done the first two hour anda half refuel and came back, and
it was changing. Was not thesame fire when we came back.
Mhmm. It was, like, bigger,closer to the shore, to the
(59:05):
ocean, and we're just trying ourbest to prevent the fire going
to the Santa Monica side. Therewas a small canyon over there,
so we're just trying to do ourbest to stop control of our so
yeah, it was the first time forme to see a live trip like that
(59:27):
and the building trip like that,like as many building as that,
you know, was full neighborhoodthat was not just just like a
one is a little house orsomething that was was was
really, really hard.
Bryan (59:40):
Yeah. Yeah. I can only imagine that must have been
really challenging and probablytough to sort of put that aside
and focus and stay sharp on themission.
Pascal (59:50):
It's hard to put on the side, but of course, you don't
have time to think really aboutthat. When you just pass over
heading to the ocean, have themind going on, but as soon as
you turn on a final to scoop onthe ocean with three feet of
wave or four feet of wave withmaybe, I don't know, it was like
(01:00:13):
maybe 40 knots on the ocean ofwind, so it was really windy. So
you didn't have time to thinkabout anything else of just
flying your plane because you'renot gonna be able to scoop on
that kind of ocean. When you'reload heading to the drop, you're
(01:00:35):
just thinking about the wayyou're gonna do it, way you're
gonna enter, exit the drop zone.So you don't think about that
either.
So there's just a small periodof time. And, of course, when
you get back home after afterthe day, you're back thinking
about of that and everything. Sothat was pretty hard.
Bryan (01:00:56):
Yeah. I can only imagine. Yeah. Okay, Pascal. That's gonna
wrap up part one of ourdiscussion on firefighting
operations in LA on the CL fourfifteen.
Thanks so much for doing whatyou do and for taking the time
to share your story with ustoday.
Pascal (01:01:10):
My pleasure.
Bryan (01:01:10):
Okay. We'll talk to you on the next one. Okay. Alright.
That wraps up part one of ourchat with Pascal Duclois about
fighting the wildfires in LA.
For our next episode, we'll talkabout some of the challenges he
and his crew faced, how thefires were finally brought under
control, as well as some of thedifferences between firefighting
in Quebec and California. Do youhave any questions or comments
(01:01:32):
about anything you've heard inthis show? Would you or someone
you know make a great guest, ordo you have a great idea for a
show? You can reach out to us atthe
pilotprojectpodcast@Gmail.com oron all social media at at pod
pilot project. And be sure tocheck out that social media for
lots of great videos of our RCAFaircraft.
As always, we'd like to thankyou for tuning in and ask for
your help with the big three.That's like and follow us on
(01:01:54):
social media, share with yourfriends, and follow and rate us
five stars wherever you get yourpodcasts. That's all for now.
Thanks for listening. Keep theblue side up.
See you.
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