Episode 52: The Commander: Commanding the RCAF and flying the CF-188 Hornet Part 2 - Eric Kenny

What is it like to command the RCAF? What is the RCAF good at, and what needs fixing? Who are our potential main adversaries and why? What challenges will we face as we pursue modernization? Have US politics (as of recording mid-March) affected our strategies with the F35 and other acquisitions? What does the future hold for the RCAF? We will talk about all of this and much more, plus questions from the audience in this interview with Lieutenant-General Eric Kenny, Commander of the RCAF. Tune in today!

Episode Transcript

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Bryan (00:28):
Hey, everybody. It's your host, Brian Morrison here with
our standard RCAF senior officerpre episode commentary. We live
in a twenty four hour news cycleand comments can be very quickly
overtaken by events. So to putthings in perspective, this
interview was recorded in midMarch. Fuel and ignition
switches.

(01:14):
We're ready for departure hereat the pilot project podcast,
the best source for stories andadvice from RCAF and Mission
Aviation Pilots brought to youby Sky's Magazine. I'm your
host, Brian Morrison. With metoday is a special guest, the
commander of the RCAF,lieutenant general Eric Kenny.
Eric, welcome back to the show,and it's great to talk to you
again.

Eric (01:30):
It's great to be back.

Bryan (01:32):
Listeners can tune in to part one of our chat to hear
about Eric's early career anddeployments. Today for part two
of our chat with Eric, we'regoing to talk about his current
role as commander of the RCAF aswell as the current state and
future of the RCAF. Finally,we'll take a couple questions
from the audience. So let's talkabout your current role. You
took command of the RCAF on08/12/2022.
What were your immediatepriorities upon assuming this

(01:54):
role?

Eric (01:56):
I had a lot of priorities, but the biggest one was to set
the strategy that we wanted tofollow as an air and space force
going over the next ten years.We had in the lead up to my time
as commander, I'd worked withLieutenant General Al
Meinzinger, who was a previouscommander, who I worked for
directly for four years inadvance. And we talked about the

(02:18):
development of an Air Force, Airand Space Force strategy. It
wasn't quite complete when heleft. And I was able to take
that and work with our entireteam to put out a strategy.
And to me, that was reallyimportant, because it clarified
what our mission is. It definedwhat our vision is. And it told
us the objectives that we'retrying to achieve in the

(02:38):
timeframe we're trying toachieve it. That then allows, I
believe myself and Chief OfficerHansen as the commanding chief
officer to go out and clearlyarticulate to our aviators, to
the other services, to othergovernment departments into the
Canadian public, what is therole of the Air and Space Force?
And where are we going?

(02:59):
And that has allowed us, Ithink, be relatively consistent
in where we want to go.

Bryan (03:06):
Okay. What have you found has been the most rewarding part
of your current position?

Eric (03:13):
For sure, it would be the RCF Centennial, which is based
on today's taping, we're notquite at the end of our one
hundredth year, which willfinish on the 03/31/2025. But,
you know, when I came into thejob, we were talking a lot about
the one hundredth anniversary ofthe Royal Canadian Air Force,
the ability to recognize thosewho served in the past, as well

(03:37):
as our current serving aviators,and inspire the future
generation to join the RoyalCanadian Air Force, or at least
to recognize what we are. And weuse the hashtag your air force.
We wanted to get out there andmake sure because our polling
was not good when we askedpeople what is Rondell and what
do you know about your force?Polling was surveys were not
good.
And so we really the team led byColonel Maggie Jackalet put

(04:02):
together this really ambitiousprogram, which I didn't know how
it was going to go up. Becauseas you know, we don't have
enough people. And we don't haveenough resources to do
everything we want to do. So itfelt like a burden at the time
to try to ask people to reallycontribute. Then it just
exploded.
I felt like it exploded. Youknow, it went from here's an

(04:23):
idea to my goodness, I thinkmost Canadians would say that we
had our one hundredthanniversary last year, which
continues till the next twoweeks, but in a way that I never
envisioned would occur. And tobe able to go to wings and
events, within Canada, outsideof Canada, to talk about our

(04:46):
history and our future, reallyinspired me in a way that I
never imagined. And I saw ouraviators go way beyond in terms
of level of effort that I everimagined at the beginning. And
it was so inspiring.
And so I would have to say, thehighlight is the centennial, not

(05:09):
because of our my participationin it, but because we were able
to speak to Canadians. And Ithink they recognized finally
what the Air Force has been andwhere it's going. Yeah. And
they're proud of it.

Bryan (05:22):
Yeah. I agree. Let's talk a little bit about the RCAF now.
What are we currently very goodat in the RCAF and what do we
need to improve?

Eric (05:31):
We have a very professional force. We have an
ability through agility to pivotquickly to provide either
domestic or internationalresponses in niche ways with the
capabilities that we have. Andwe do that, usually we're trying
to hold back in terms of what,you know, what our aviators want

(05:53):
to do. Sometimes we have to say,okay, if we do that, then we
won't be able to do this after.

Bryan (05:56):
I

Eric (05:57):
appreciate that you're offering to do that. So we're
really, really good atcontributing quickly to
providing effects. We need toimprove our capabilities to be
relevant for today's threat. Andwe need to increase the number
of people that we have that aretrained to maximize those

(06:18):
capabilities.

Bryan (06:18):
Okay. What do you see as the main challenges the RCAF is
currently facing?

Eric (06:24):
The biggest one, of course, is the people side. So
we're about 2,000 regular forcemembers short of our
establishment, about 500 reserveforce people short of our
establishment. And on the publicservice side, we're we've been
pretty much equal, even goingover the last couple years. So
my focus is primarily on theregular force and reserve force.

(06:46):
So we, lost a lot of people.
And when I say lost, we had alot of retirements that occurred
over the pandemic period. Whenwe stopped recruiting
effectively in training. Yep.And so then we saw a significant
decrease. So our biggestchallenge right now is our
ability to grow rapidly.
So that we have the people. It'snot technology. Technology is
we've always had technology inour hundred years. It's the

(07:09):
people that's actually whatgives us the capability.

Bryan (07:12):
So how can we overcome that challenge?

Eric (07:15):
Right now, two parts of that I would say. First off, I
do need to provide thetechnology. So we'll talk about
some of the modernizationefforts, I'm sure For sure. As
we move forward. But on thepeople side, the two biggest
ones and biggest ones areseveral others just to be clear,
is the recruitment of peopleinto the military more than we
have releasing, and then theretention of the experienced

(07:37):
personnel that we have.
We have, since the pandemicstarted in 2020, we over the
first three years of that, sofiscal year twenty twenty one to
fiscal year twenty twentytwo-twenty three, those three
years, we decreased by athousand regular force members.
And the way that happened, justto be very clear, is in the

(07:59):
first fiscal year twenty twentyone, we only brought in just
over 400 people. Every year, wehave about 800 to 900 releases.

Bryan (08:10):
Okay.

Eric (08:11):
So when you bring in 400 people, and you have 800 to 900
that will release over multipleyears, you're going see a
decrease in your trainingeffective strength. The next
fiscal year was better. Webrought in more people. Fiscal
year at the last fiscal yeartwenty three, twenty four, which
finished at the March, as wekicked off on our Centennial,
was the first year that webrought in more people than we

(08:35):
had released.

Bryan (08:35):
Okay.

Eric (08:36):
First year. And instantly, we had our first increase last
year. This year were severalhundred over our releases,
because we're bringing in awhole bunch more people this
year than we did last year. Infact, we're gonna go 10% above
what we asked for.

Bryan (08:52):
Okay.

Eric (08:53):
Not in all trades, but in most trades. And so this year,
I'll wait for the stats, I'llget it probably in early May,
but I'm expecting that ourgrowth will be just under a
hundred.

Bryan (09:05):
Okay. So we're gaining some momentum. Huge momentum.

Eric (09:08):
If you plot this out, it's an exponential growth. I suspect
this upcoming fiscal year thatwe're gonna grow by, at least
300 people.

Bryan (09:16):
Okay. That's awesome. Who do you see as our potential main
adversaries currently and why?

Eric (09:24):
Always talk about the the top five, Russia, China, North
Korea, Iran, and violentextremist organizations.
Sometimes we'll talk aboutclimate change, just because
it'll affect water scarcity,food scarcity, lead to conflict,
domestic responses, etcetera.But by far, the one that's most

(09:45):
pressing is Russia. Becauseright now they have an ability,
if they so chose to strike NorthAmerica, either through
submarine launch cruise missilesor air launch cruise missile.
Assuming they don't get into anintercontinental ballistic
missile type approach withnuclear, so below the nuclear
threshold, they could do thatright now.

(10:06):
Right. And their illegalinvasion of Ukraine has shown
that they don't respectinternational rules based order,
and they don't respect borders.And Putin is very clear in his
ambitions, which go beyondUkraine. Let's be very let's not
be naive in thinking that that'shis only ambition.

Bryan (10:28):
Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

Eric (10:30):
Next to that is China and their rapid growth of their
military. Their partnership nowwith Russia where it's of
convenience, joint patrols, asan example off Alaska with their
bombers and Russian bombers,most recently last fall. Their
science activities, as they callit up in the Arctic that have

(10:52):
been occurring and to thelargest amount this last year.
And their ambitions to continueto increase their space
capabilities, actually alldomains in a joint way to not
only make sure that they areable to protect themselves, but
in a way that they can projectit in other areas to include it
within North America.

Bryan (11:13):
Okay.

Eric (11:13):
North Korea is a rogue actor, continuing to build the
intercontinental ballisticmissile, which holds us at risk
right now and will continue tohold us at risk as they develop
more capabilities that are andlonger range. And then Iran, is
feeding Hezbollah, Houthis,militias backed by Iran, trying
to create instability. And allthose four countries are working

(11:36):
together in areas that theyshare technology that allows
them to expand capabilities. Andviolent extremist organizations,
have not gone away. And are, youknow, becoming quite concerning
in Africa and have been for awhile.
A place that we're not spendinga lot of our time on.

Bryan (11:51):
Yeah.

Eric (11:51):
So those are our main focus areas right now. And now
today, it's Russia. Quicklycoming is China. Yep. And then
there's these other broke onesthat I talked about.

Bryan (12:00):
Okay. Let's talk a little about modernization and how
we're gonna get there. Recently,we spoke with major general
Chris McKenna, the commander ofone CAD, about many of our
modernization efforts, thebiggest since World War two, in
fact. Why is modernization sucha big concern right now and what
capability gaps do you hope tosee this fill?

Eric (12:19):
We're replacing 80% of our fleets are bringing in new
capabilities here in the nextfew years. We've signed six
major contracts to deliver twozero nine new aircraft,
$69,000,000,000 worth ofcontracts. And that does not
include fixed wing insertionrescue or Griffin limited life
extension, were approved beforethat. So why do we need to do

(12:42):
it? Because our currentcapabilities do not allow us to
provide a deterrent effectagainst Russia and China.
Provides a deterrent effectsomewhat for counter insurgency,
counter VEO, but it does notprovide what we have right now
does not provide us a deterrenteffect against a peer adversary.

(13:03):
So, in part one, I mentionedthat we focus a lot on
counterinsurgency operations,and assumed that we would
operate the same way for decadesto come. And now we're back on
state against state type, pureadversary capabilities. We're
back to the Cold War. Except theCold War was against one

(13:24):
adversary.
Now it's multiple adversaries,all of whom are very capable
against us. So we need torapidly pivot from our current
capabilities or first off,increase the lethality of our
current capabilities where wecan, either through tactics,
techniques, procedures,upgrades, weapons, etc. But then
as soon as possible, transitionto fifth generation Air Force,

(13:47):
air and space force, so that wecan have the right capabilities
that provide that deterrenteffect while providing the
training to our aviators tomaximize lethality.

Bryan (14:00):
Okay. Our Hornet fleet is currently going through the
Hornet extension program phasetwo or HEP two. However, this
will only serve to make ourHornets competition to our
adversaries, not overmatch. Whyis that?

Eric (14:14):
So, you know, our history on the fighter file has been
interesting. We initiallyannounced I think it was
02/2010, but I could be off by ayear that we're gonna buy the f
35, 60 five of them. And then acouple years later, it was
canceled. Then we said thatwe're gonna not buy that 35.
Then we said we're gonna buy theSuper Hornet.

(14:35):
Then we said we're gonna run acompetition. And then we bought
that 35. And over that period oftime, we've seen a lot of people
get out because they were nothappy with some of those
decisions that were made,unfortunately. But in
particular, we had to extend f18 while we waited for the final
decision to be made. We made theright decision to be very clear.

(14:55):
The F-thirty five is by far thebest aircraft. So we made the
decision that we need to keepF-eighteen until 02/1932. We
wanted to do what was requiredto make it relevant to 02/1932,
while at the same time not usingall of our money on the f 18 so
that we can use it for othercapabilities.

Bryan (15:14):
Right.

Eric (15:14):
So we made the conscious decision that we'll upgrade the
radar. And it's already beendelivered, not all of them, but
several of our Hornets alreadyhave the new radar. It's called
the active electronicallyscanned array radar, EASE radar,
APG 79. So we have that radar inthere. We have just acquired the
AIM nine x.
And we're getting a new Amram aswell, which will be started to
deliver this year. So when youput that together, with the new

(15:39):
helmet system as well, and someother things that we've done
with it, mode five as anexample, And new Satcom. Now it
has a capability to see and dosomething about cruise missiles.
What we didn't do is do anythingon the self protection side.
Okay.
Because the technology wasn'tthere. Our partner, the US

(16:01):
Marine Corps weren't necessarilyfocused on that. So we made the
conscious decision that wewouldn't technology was a
limitation, but at the sametime, we weren't gonna spend
money on that, which means thatit's limited in where it can
operate. In other words, itwould operate in more semi
permissive permissiveenvironments. So homeland
defense.

Bryan (16:18):
Right. Which is the biggest ultimately, is maybe not
the biggest, but certainly avery large priority for the the
fighter fleet as we get throughto having the f 35.

Eric (16:28):
Yeah. Now for the Department of Defense,
everybody's very focused oncontinental defense, something
we've been talking about forsixty seven years with NORAD.
Now, it's the only thing peopleare talking about.

Bryan (16:38):
Yeah. So one of the biggest concerns throughout this
large effort of modernization isthe people problem as we've
discussed a little. How are weplanning to weather this period
of transition and retain theexperienced personnel such as
air crew, maintainers, andsupport trades that will be
needed to bring thesecapabilities online?

Eric (16:55):
We're doing a future structure review, which will
look at what skill sets we needof the Air Force by 02/1935. And
then I've approved the study ofa couple of new occupations. As
an example, a security force,RCF owned and managed occupation
that is a security force. So weget away from doing wing

(17:17):
auxiliary security forces as asecondary duty for technicians
and supporters in many cases.

Bryan (17:23):
I'm sure that will be greeted with cheers by many.

Eric (17:26):
It will work to start in Coal Lake and Baggeville
initially, and then look to growthat. So we're hoping to have
that occupation studied andhopefully approved by next year.
And then we'll start to recruitpeople into it. We're even
looking at a new trade calledair operation specialists, which
as we look at the flightengineer, and load masters, and

(17:47):
some of the roles that we'regoing to be doing in the future,
we believe that a new tradecalled the flight operation
specialist is required that willtake some of those skill sets,
and then be used for differentfleets with specialties within
them. Okay.
So that's another thing thatwe're introducing. So all I'd
say is that our currentstructure is not necessarily fit
for purpose for the future. Sowhat are the skill sets we need?
Let's work backwards from there.Let's create occupations and

(18:08):
then the training systems,enrollment system to get them
in.
So that's one step. The otherstep is to is making the
difficult decisions on what youprioritize. We're doing less
operations than we would like,because we're privileging where
we can the modernizationefforts. Because if they are
delayed, then we're not gonnahave the deterrence effect that

(18:30):
I spoke about earlier. We won'thave that lethal fighting force
that we need to prevent aconflict from occurring in the
first place or if required tofight and win.
So prioritizing capabilities,with the lens of homeland
defense is our number onemission. So by 2028, being able
to do in a relevant way,continental defense, what are

(18:50):
the capabilities that allow youto do that by 2028? Those are
resourced at a higher priority,people and money. Doesn't mean
that the things at thebottomless are not important. It
just means that you may not getas much money or as many people.
Nobody likes to be maybe sittingat the bottom. Doesn't just to

(19:11):
be clear, it's not becauseyou're not important. It's just
we have to make decisions. Wedon't have enough resources to
do everything.

Bryan (19:16):
Of course.

Eric (19:17):
Certain things are more important than others. So that's
that's how we're getting afterit.

Bryan (19:20):
Okay. So we've talked a little bit about 02/1935, Air
Force '2 thousand '30 '5. Solet's dive into that. Nearly two
years ago, the RCAF releasedRCAF strategy agile, integrated,
inclusive, which was a roadmapof sorts intended to guide the
RCAF to 02/1935. Why is 02/1935such a significant year?

Eric (19:40):
We selected 02/1935 because at the time that we
wrote the strategy, most of theprojects that we had in strong
secure engaged or defense policyfrom 2017, and Narai
modernization announced in 2022,we're going to be at full
operational capability by02/1935. It is not the timeframe

(20:01):
I wanted, just to be clear, Iwould have rather said it was
02/1930. Sure. But just based ondelivery schedule and how
projects work, we would have themost lethal force we could have
by 02/1935. And then we set amiddle point of 2028, as I just
described, of continentaldefense in a relevant way.

(20:21):
So 02/1935 was more based onproject delivery timelines.
Okay. What's changed is that ourassessment currently is that we
need to be ready for majorcombat operations within the
next five years. Right.Therefore, our 2028 goal is
still very much aligned withthat.

(20:43):
But we need to think about whatelse we can pull left to deliver
and have it in a capable way byby 02/1930. That includes making
sure that all our currentvacancies are filled no later
than one April of twenty twentynine. And we field as many of
the capabilities that we'vesigned contracts for or that

(21:04):
we're about to sign contractsfor by that time, prioritizing
certain ones over others whereit makes sense for continental
defense.

Bryan (21:11):
Okay. As part of the launch for the RCAF strategy,
you stated that the RCAF commandchief warrant officer, chief
warrant officer Hall, and Irecognize that our aviators and
families display exceptionaldedication and unwavering
support, and we owe them thesame. What efforts have been
launched to show these familiesthe dedication and support they
deserve?

Eric (21:32):
I don't know about our our viewership, but I my family's
effectively joined with me inthe military and has been with
me on this ride. Not for thefull thirty six years that I've
been in now, but for the vastmajority of that for my spouse.
And so this is a familyendeavor, and it's only as

(21:54):
strong as the family is in termsof our ability to support it. So
we want to do everything we canto support families. We're the
only service that has stood up afamily advocate.
We have a colonel who's assignedas a family advocate to kind of
provide advice or guidance onwhat we can do to support
families. We're the onestypically that are talking about

(22:17):
how we need more daycare spaces,how we need to be able to share
licenses between provinces,something that was being worked
on with a project calledseamless Canada over the last
eight years, not a lot ofsuccess. Now changing because of
the political dynamics wherebythe provinces are opening up
trade barriers. So now all ofsudden things that we've been

(22:38):
talking about for eight yearswhere we wanted to take a
professional license, say anurse or a teacher from one
province, spouse potentiallymove to another province and
they have to start over. Soundslike those barriers might get
knocked down just because ofwhat's going on with the US
administration, which isfantastic news for our members.
Yeah. But just to be very clear,fully understood how our regular

(23:01):
force reserve force, publicservice, NPF employees, our
contractors, and our familiescome together to actually make
their force as great as it is.

Bryan (23:12):
Yeah. Like you said, our families are basically in it
with us. They don't get achoice. They're along for the
ride. So I applaud any effortsthat we can that we can have to
make life better for them.

Eric (23:21):
Absolutely.

Bryan (23:23):
So the mission is defined as to generate relevant,
responsive, and effective airand space power at home and
abroad. What is our current toppriority between these two
theaters and are they connected?

Eric (23:34):
Top priority is at home, but there's always has to be a
broad, component to that. Soright now, our tactical aviation
detachments in Latvia with afour pack of Griffins. We have
three Herks in Prestwick. Wehave a maritime helicopter
embarked on on a frigate. Wehave our CP one forties
operating around the world andour mobility fleet, of course,

(23:55):
operating around the world.
While at home, we're doingsearch and rescue, we're doing
an rad mission. But very clearlystated in our defense policy,
North Stronger Free released ayear ago, was that our number
one job, and we said this forforever, but now really
emphasize is continentaldefense. And with a renewed

(24:18):
focus on the Arctic. So for theAir Force, nothing new. For
everybody else, this is somewhatnew.
You know, talking to the armycommander, he's like, okay, I
got to figure out how our focusnow is not on providing troops
to Europe. But it's how did howdoes the army do continental
defense? What's the Navy's rolewithin that? And what special
forces roles within that? So athome is the priority.

(24:44):
We at the same time have madecommitments to NATO in the Indo
Pacific region, with NorthKorea's security, UN Security
Council resolutions againstNorth Korea and things such as
that. So it's we're gonna doeverything towards continental
defense, plus those commitmentsthat we have made, or the
government has made, we'llsustain those. And there's a

(25:07):
renewed emphasis on sovereigntynow as well. So how do we do
that more robustly andresiliently by Canada alone?

Bryan (25:14):
As part of this plan, we have four strategic objectives,
value our people and invest intheir future, be ready to
conduct operations, modernizefor tomorrow and engage in
partner for success. Could youbriefly outline these objectives
and give an example of how we'replanning to accomplish them?

Eric (25:28):
So I simplify them as people, readiness, modernization
and partnerships. Okay. Underthe people piece, this is about
creating an environmentatmosphere where everybody
brings their authentic self, andthey are able to contribute. If
we can't have an environmentwhere everyone is recognized for
who they are and the strengthsthat they bring, we're not going

(25:49):
to make the best decisions. Sothat's really important.
In there is an ability to do thetraining and education required
so that they can operateindependently, but with mission
command, understanding of how toget the mission done, and just
do good things. Because let's beclear, we're gonna be operating
in degraded environments wherecommunications won't always be

(26:10):
assured.

Bryan (26:11):
Under

Eric (26:13):
readiness, it's making sure that we're committing to
the operations that we cansustain or for the periods of
times that we say we can do itin a way that's credible. But at
the same time, advocating forwhich and we're getting that
funding to increase the partsthat we have available to
increase the amount ofammunition that we have

(26:34):
available to increaseinfrastructure, so that we can
fight from our wings, becausethat's what we do. People don't
always think of it that way.Especially in a continental
defense way. For modernization,it's about onboarding of all
these new capabilities.
We have $155,000,000,000 worthof projects in all the defense
policies, 75 projects total.Actually, quite a bit of that is

(26:57):
infrastructure as well. So wehave a lot of money coming at us
for a lot of projects, some ofwhich we've never had, like the
c q nine bravo, we're gonna callit the c q nine. And instead of
calling it the Sky Guardian,we're calling it the Guardian.
Okay.
So the CQ nine Bravo Guardian,the remotely piloted aircraft
system, is a brand newcapability. The airborne early

(27:18):
warning capability that gotapproved and funded, which I
hope to see delivered inoperations by 02/1935, will be a
brand new capability. We've beendoing it down in Tinker Air
Force Base, Oprah in Alaska, orNATO. Now we're going to have
our own aircraft and we're goingto operate them. There's some
brand new things that are comingalong with that.
And then finally, thepartnerships. What I've always

(27:41):
said in my career is that youneed to reach across and form
partnerships and relationshipswith folks that you don't
typically talk to. Because youdon't want to do it in time of
crisis or in time of war. Thefirst phone call you make to
somebody shouldn't be how you'reintroducing yourself, it should
be, hey, I need this from you,or how can I help you? And
you've already formed thatrelationship.
Right. So big focus on,obviously, with allies, Five

(28:04):
Eyes, NATO, and others, but alsoacross services, Army, Navy, Air
Force, Special Forces, and thenacross government departments
within the department,academics, and industry.

Bryan (28:17):
Okay. Let's move on and talk about Ukraine and global
events. The illegal Russianinvasion of Ukraine has
highlighted the importance ofair superiority and integrated
air and missile defense. How hasthis conflict influenced your
perspective on readiness andfuture investment in the RCAF?

Eric (28:34):
We're really proud of the fact that we've been helping
with, in the lead up to thetwenty twenty two invasion,
which was the second invasion,as you know, 2014 being the
first one. We did, you know,from 2015, Canadians train
Ukrainians until the 2022conflict. And then since then,
we've been supporting eitherthrough reassurance or policing
our press detachment deliveringaid from different countries

(28:57):
into Poland or other places toget to Ukraine. But what is
highlighted is that airsuperiority is not assured. So
going back to our discussion ofcounterinsurgency where we
always had it.
Now, neither Ukraine nor Russiais able to operate with air
superiority. So what'shappening? We're flying at low

(29:19):
altitudes. They're, having touse new, not new tactics that we
used to use during the cold war.Mhmm.
And increased technology atrange that allows them to do
strike missions. But nobody hasoverall superiority, which is
just leading to a war ofattrition on the ground. Yeah.
But if you actually were able toget that superiority, it would

(29:41):
be a much different war as youknow. So that means you need to
have a combination of low tech,low cost systems and high-tech,
high cost systems.
And you need to have industrialcapacity to sustain it, whether
it's ammunition, parts, etc. Areone of the things announced in

(30:02):
our policy last year was thatCanada will invest in integrated
air missile defense. It wasn'tfunded, was said we're going
look at it and come back forfunding. So the Air Force has
taken the lead on that. We havea lot of the factors that you
would need, whether it be P8s,F35s, RPAS, etcetera, that was
coming.
What we don't have is all thedomain awareness that you need.

(30:23):
Some of which is coming butslowly. And then one of the
critical components is the c twosystem and domain command and
control system that stitches allthose things together. So you
get the right decisions,information to decision makers,
and then the ground based airdefense is a key part that we
don't have. So we're reallyadvocating for that.
So you need an effective groundbased air defense, you need the

(30:45):
ammo to sustain it, need thetraining, you know, all these
things need to come together.That and one way attack drones,
things such as that arewatching, but what we're seeing
in that is that, you know, oneperson, one country makes one
version, and then the nextcountry figures out a way to
counter it. And it's just it's aconstant evolution. So ability,

(31:05):
digitally and things such asthat to rapidly change that
technology to always have thenext level of capability will be
true in any state on stateconflict.

Bryan (31:17):
Okay. So we've already talked about the importance of
state on state deterrence. We'vetalked about who our adversaries
or potential adversaries are.You've been quoted as saying we
don't currently have capabilityto conduct state on state
deterrence. When do you see thatas being something we will
achieve and what milestones needto happen to get there?

Eric (31:34):
I think the I think many experts would agree to this
statement, which is that younever really the only real
deterrent out there is nucleardeterrence. At least it has been
today. And, and so notadvocating that Kanish needs to
get nuclear deterrence. Butbeyond that, it's obviously in
the adversaries calculus of mineas to whether or you're going to

(31:57):
deter them. And we often assumethat if we're if we be deterred,
then we assume that they wouldbe deterred.
We need to fully understand howthe adversary thinks and their
ambitions to fully understandhow we can best deter them. But,
you know, right now, we havehuge domain awareness gaps in
Canada. We have hugecommunication gaps within

(32:18):
Canada. We are onboarding newweapons for the f 18. We have a
new cloud based command andcontrol system at our Canadian
air defense sector in North BayYep.
Which is using AI machinelearning, which is which is
fantastic, and we're movingahead in that. But our ability
to stitch it all together in away that actually is a deterrent

(32:40):
to Russia, to China, is, someways away. So I try to be very
realistic that and recognizethat we made decisions based on
our counterinsurgency typeapproach. Now I've stayed on
state. We're behind the curve,but quickly catching up to speak
clear so that we can have a realdeterrent effect.

Bryan (33:01):
So it's no secret that there has been significant
political friction with one ofour greatest historical allies,
The United States. Is it timefor Canada to pursue an
independent strategic deterrenceto be managed by the RCAF on
behalf of Canada, or do we needto continue to focus on working
as partners? And just for thelisteners to be clear, we're
recording this in mid March.This is not coming out until

(33:21):
April or May. So of course, thissituation is constantly
evolving.

Eric (33:25):
Yeah. When it when it does come out, I'm gonna have to
listen to what I said becausethe the situation will be much
different by the time this comesout. So I'll start off with at
this stage, our partnership withthe US military is very strong.
No changes occurring. We haveCanadians that are embedded in
many US organizations to includeNORAD, just like we have
American military embedded inCanadian units, and operating

(33:49):
with them around the world.
That relationship remains verystrong.

Bryan (33:53):
Okay.

Eric (33:56):
But it is making us think and realize as Canadians, that
there is a role, a bigger rolethat the Canadians and the
government needs to take interms of making sure we can
protect and defend our ownsovereignty. And that if

(34:17):
required, you're assured anability to do so without allies
and partners.

Bryan (34:22):
Okay.

Eric (34:22):
It doesn't mean that there's a change in our military
relationship. So what does thatmean? That means, as an example,
there's an increasedunderstanding that we have not
invested in our Canadianindustrial base to produce
aircraft that are militarygrade, or maybe ammo or other

(34:47):
things, whereby if the borderswere closed and COVID this
happened, and we realized whenit came to flu shot or the shot
immunizations, That if you don'thave your own domestic capacity,
then you're relying on others.And when those borders get
closed, then what do you do? Sowe're seeing a desire to invest

(35:14):
more in Canadian companies.
Even if it means that theproduct that we get will take
longer to get it.

Bryan (35:21):
Okay.

Eric (35:21):
Because now we build our own industrial base, which makes
us stronger as we move forward.That's a change. And then their
change is a recognition, veryclear recognition that we need
to do something about integratedmissile air missile defense that
goes beyond just f 35 or f 18.And so Okay, I'm asked almost

(35:43):
every day how I can acceleratethings and fill things quicker.
I then remind them there's thisreally complicated process for
how we do that.
And we don't have all the peoplewe need. And so that's why we're
trying to bring in as many andretain as many people as we can.
Okay.

Bryan (35:57):
So with increases in tariffs and heating rhetoric, is
there any concern over the manyprocurement plans for new
platforms that we have comingfrom The United States in terms
of costs or even in terms ofcancellations?

Eric (36:09):
Definitely no cancellations at this stage.
Everything that we have oncontract is going I won't say
completely the plan becausethere is some delays in some of
the projects. But F35, as anexample, is on track at this
stage. We'll get our first onesnext year, late next year. We're
posting people down in TheStates already to start with a
reprogramming lab.

(36:29):
And and the air crews that willbe flying F35, the first ones
will be posted down to TheStates next summer. So the ones
that we're seeing potentialdelays in or waiting to hear
more is the p eight might be alittle bit delayed for expecting
in the summer twenty six. Sowe're just waiting to see if
that's actually gonna be thecase or not.

Bryan (36:45):
Okay.

Eric (36:46):
But so no change to any of the contracts at this stage.
And, you know, if you look atthe f 35, there's 36 Canadian
companies that contribute partsto f 35. For every f 35 that's
produced, there's $2,000,000worth of Canadian produced parts
on that f 35. Wow. We're sointegrated, because we're a

(37:07):
partner nation in f 35.
That's just the way it works.We're so integrated in
everything that we do. That,which I think is very special
that, know, delinking the stagefrom a procurement perspective
would be extremely challenging.So we're we have people posted
down in The States that arestarting their training on the p
eight. And I'm quite excitedabout some of the capabilities

(37:29):
we're getting.
But at the same time, we'relooking at where there's other
options available, then, youknow, maybe diversifying a
little bit is probably a goodidea too.

Bryan (37:36):
Okay. So good news though, in terms of our current,
current projects.

Eric (37:39):
Yep.

Bryan (37:41):
Has there been any consideration to try to get full
or partial software independenceon any of these new platforms to
insulate us from any futurevolatility from The United
States?

Eric (37:50):
Where we can. Some contracts so the f 35 because we
are a partner nation, we werepart of the original MOU for the
the development of it. We'vealways we sit at the table, and
we have a vote on what goes intof 35. And we have been since we
joined that program. But thenthere's some other things that
we buy, the p eight would be anexample where it's a foreign

(38:12):
military sale.
So we buy the platform, thesoftware that comes with it. But
then we create a sustainmentprogram that will allow us to
get IP rates, softwaredevelopment updates, and things
such as that. Each contract isdifferent. And I'm not saying
that PH specifically will allowus to do our own software,
because it's not always the bestidea to have your own software.

(38:33):
Sometimes it's good to go withwhat's created for everybody.
Sure.

Bryan (38:36):
It takes a lot of A lot of effort. Yeah. And a lot of
people to make that happen towork out the bugs to develop it.
It's a lot of work.

Eric (38:44):
Yeah. So for f 35, what makes f 35 the most lethal
platform is the mission datafile that goes within it. And
that is could be produced atAustralia, Canada, UK
Reprogramming Lab, which islocated down in Florida. So The
UK and Australia have been doingit since they've had f 35 for
years, almost a decade. We justjoined that program.

(39:09):
And so we have got someCanadians down there, we're
sending some more Canadians downthere. Our very first f 35 will
fly with a Canadian made missiondata load, working with
Australia and UK. And so that'simportant that we have that that
sovereignty and understandingover data. So things such as
that are definitely being lookedat where we can.

Bryan (39:27):
Okay. Let's talk a little about the future of the RCAF.
July of twenty twenty two, threeCanadian Space Division was
stood up. Do you see it asplaying an increasingly
important role in the defense ofCanada and why?

Eric (39:39):
Space is the ultimate high ground. You know, when I go and
talk to general Whiting, he isThe US Space Commander, command
commander, which is a combatantcommand down in Colorado
Springs, or General Saltzman,who's the chief of space
operations, effectively theircommander of their space force
down in Pentagon. They remindme, that their AOR is 100

(40:00):
kilometers and above. It's thebiggest area of responsibility
out of any of the combatantcommands. And it goes now to
assist lunar.
So what we have recognized isthat we're fully reliant. We've
known this, but it's become moreacute now that there's anti
space capabilities, whetherthey're from the ground or space
that threaten the peaceful useof space. And there's no

(40:23):
responsible space behaviors thatall countries have signed up to,
to speak Yeah. Space is where weget our ISR, where we get our
SATCOM, it's where we get ourweather without and our missile
warning and tracking. So withoutspace, then you have a huge
vulnerability.
You can't talk to each otherbecause the SATCOM is an

(40:43):
example. You don't see what'shappening in another area
because you don't have the ISR,space based ISR. So we need to
make sure that we defend andprotect our space assets, which
is one of our missions for threeCanadian Space Division, while
working with our partners andallies. Canada, we're setting up
a new one star position inVandenberg, California this

(41:06):
summer. The new position is aDeputy Joint Force Base
Component Commander for US SpaceCommand.
And it was designed to be alliedand Canada will be the first
country to be that in thatposition. Brigadier general Kyle
Paul is gonna go into thatposition.

Bryan (41:23):
Okay.

Eric (41:23):
And he'll work for an American three star. The other
two nations that will go intothat position are Australia and
The UK.

Bryan (41:30):
Okay.

Eric (41:31):
New Zealand may as well. I I volunteered us to go in first,
got the chief of defense staffapproval, and we're gonna be
well integrated. Because Canadawas the first third country to
launch something in space. Likewe have a huge space history.
Mhmm.
And in particular with NORAD aswell. So if we don't defend and
protect space, then all asudden, everything we have built

(41:54):
will not be able to, beeffective. So our ability to,
sustain that is reallyimportant.

Bryan (42:01):
Okay. So looking beyond 2035, what are some of the
emerging technologies andcapabilities that will shape the
future of the RCAF?

Eric (42:11):
So there's a lot of discussion about sixth gen. I'm
just focused on getting us tofifth gen in the shorter term
right now. But one of the thebig things and we we've touched
on some of it already isintegrated missile defense. So
how do we how do we what isthat? And how do we better
define it and actually put itinto place so we can do
continental defense effectivelyand with a deterrence?

(42:36):
The things that we're nowlooking at are air launched
effects, one way attack drones,or small UASs, and then human
machine teaming, collaborativecombat aircraft. There's a
counter UAS. There's a wholebunch of things that mainly
driving from the Ukraineconflict. I have to admit that

(43:00):
because of the many things thathave been approved in policy,
strong, secure, engaged, noradmod, and then our North Stronger
Free most recently, We'regetting pretty much everything
that we've asked for. There's acouple things that we're not.
And that is on the next list.

Bryan (43:19):
Okay.

Eric (43:20):
Which is a list related to 2% and you know, how quickly do
we get to two percent ininvestments? And then what if
NATO goes much higher than that,which is anticipated, upwards of
three or three and a halfpercent.

Bryan (43:33):
Okay.

Eric (43:33):
And if Canada if Canada agrees to that. So we have given
everything that we can think ofright now. And to the point
where, because we're onboardingso many things, we have to make
decisions about where people areprioritized. We're taking some
of the people that are at theaerospace warfare center who
typically be looking at what'sour future requirements and

(43:56):
bring them on delivery of thesecapabilities because we're
getting pretty much everythingwe ever imagined we need.

Bryan (44:01):
Right.

Eric (44:01):
We just now don't need to bring it in.

Bryan (44:03):
That makes sense. Basically, the current focus is
on onboarding all this new techthat's gonna bring us to 2035.

Eric (44:10):
Yeah. And then, you know, quantum computing. How do we
maximize the use of AI butrecognize that it we do it in a
responsible way?

Bryan (44:18):
Mhmm.

Eric (44:18):
And then it's the command and control and the
interconnection. How do we makesure that all these sensors,
because that's what theyprimarily are, are able to get
the information in a timelyfashion to the decision makers.

Bryan (44:33):
Mhmm. And I'm gonna ask some questions in a moment about
some of that managing that thatnew sensor data. So with that,
let's move on to some questionsfrom the audience. Can you tell
us about a policy change theRCAF has undertaken that was
spurred on by member feedback orsuggestions? Essentially, what
are we doing to take in thefeedback suggestions and ideas
from members and action them?

Eric (44:55):
Maybe I'll give you two.

Bryan (44:56):
Okay.

Eric (44:57):
One was a desire to serve beyond 60. And I don't know how
many so I approve all reserveforce requests to serve beyond
60 up to 65. I've signedhundreds in the last couple of
years, hundreds. I get usually acouple every week that I sign
off on. We have a strong desireto serve beyond 60.

(45:20):
And so that's a policy change.Where 60, you're out, doesn't
matter if you're fit, doesn'tmatter if you're contributing.
Now, there's flexibility. I'llgive you maybe one that
resonated quite a bit wasthrough what we call vector
check. One of the proposalsstaffed up was, hey, we'd like
to get an RCF ball cap like theNavy has.

(45:43):
And it took not that long to getthat approved. It took a while
to get it produced anddistributed. And I think that
was viewed in a very positivemanner by many aviators.

Bryan (45:57):
Definitely.

Eric (45:58):
That that's one that came from the bottom up that was
ultimately released.

Bryan (46:03):
Yeah. I know that one was popular for sure. Obviously, I
can't comment as much on theserving beyond 60 because that's
just not where me and my peerswere at yet. But I know for sure
that the ball caps were werehighly appreciated. I mean, we
typically outside of anycommunity that's wearing a
helmet, you wear one while youfly.
It's nice to be able to wear itonce you leave the aircraft as

(46:24):
well. So yeah. To what extentdoes the Canadian Armed Forces
prioritize recruitment effortsrelative to retention
strategies? There seems to besome feeling that recruitment is
a higher priority.

Eric (46:36):
My whole career most of my career, we've always been in
this dilemma of only being ableto train enough people that we
can absorb. And so my backgroundis, know, as fighters, what I
saw happen over many years is wewere having, say 16 fighter

(46:58):
pilots released per year. And wewere training 12. Right. And so
every time we said, well, weneed to train at least 16.
The answer was, well, we can'tabsorb that. So the answer was,
we're going to continue todecrease in our numbers. Right.
Year over year. Yet, we did itfor ten years in a row.
And now we have way too fewpeople that are fighting pilots.

(47:21):
So the other approach could be amobilization approach, like we
did during the Second World War,Very small, broken air force,
couple thousand to be the fourthlargest air force in the world
six years later. Right. So it ispossible to rapidly onboard
people. It means you're takingyou're doing things differently.

(47:45):
It doesn't mean you're changingstandards, but you have to do
things differently. You have torecognize the skill sets of the
people that you're bringing onboard. If you don't do that, you
just won't grow. Now, of course,you have to retain the
experience that you have. Sothere's a balance that has to be
played.
But over our history, ourrelease rate is typically around

(48:05):
five or 6%, which is a veryhealthy attrition rate. That's,
you know, any organization thathad attrition rate of that would
be very happy. And you're alwaysgonna have attrition, you're
always gonna have like, that'sjust, it's natural, actually,
you do need to have that in yourorganization. But what you want
to do is have because it takesso long to get the skill sets

(48:26):
that we need to get theexperience we need, as compared
to other services. There is aperiod of time that we need
those experienced personnel tostay on.
And for those that stay on forthirty five, forty, forty five
years, and I know several trulyappreciate what they do, but
every person contributes. So howdo you establish a retention

(48:47):
model that suits each individualrecognizing that their family
has a vote in that? But at theend of the day, if you don't
rapidly increase our recruitmentand onboard them, we will just
not grow. Right. And if we don'tgrow, we're not going to deter.

(49:08):
If we don't deter, we're notgonna be ready for a potential
major combat operation in thenext five years. Okay. So so
it's that kind of mindset ofmobilization, while retaining.
And I I do believe that if you'dI think there's a sharper focus
on what we're doing and whywe're doing it, that will help

(49:28):
inner retention.

Bryan (49:30):
As we come more operations focused essentially?

Eric (49:33):
Yeah. Like I'm approaching retirement shortly. And I gotta
tell you, I feel super guiltyabout it. Especially in this
time of geopoliticalinstability. That's last thing I
want to do is get out right now.
When I say get out, retire, Imean. Because I feel like I can
do so much more. But we all haveto make a decision at some

(49:54):
point. And there's others thatwill continue to hold that
mantle and move it forward. Soyou would hear recruitment is
the priority.
That's absolutely true. Becauseif you don't onboard homeless
people, but at the same time,retention has to be there. And
what everything we can do. Soit's it is a balance. The harder
thing with retention is many ofthe policy aspects that go along

(50:19):
with retention, whether it'scompensation and benefits or
just policies, Air Force doesnot own.
Yeah. And so it's a lot ofadvocacy. And it's in many
cases, the Department of Defensedoesn't own it. So we have to go
to Treasury Board or others. Soit's not that we don't think
it's important.
It's just our mechanisms to dothat. If you understand what
your mission is, and you have achain of command who supports

(50:40):
you, and treats you like anindividual for who you are,
allows you to come and andactually contribute to the
mission with the family supportthat we can best enable, then
now it's a career and there is awillingness hopefully to
continue to serve.

Bryan (50:57):
Okay. On the topic of retention, what is being done in
the next year to improve thelives of members of the RCAF?

Eric (51:05):
So there's I'll go to what he said. There's some things
that are gonna take a little bitlonger than others. I believe
we're doing a better job ofhaving a discussion with our
aviators with their chain ofcommand to understand their
unique family situation andtheir aspirations. We talk about
it all the time, but it's, Iknow it's not the reality on the
ground everywhere, just beclear. We are, because of

(51:31):
funding we received last year,we're starting to build
residential housing units, someof our bases and wings that are
gonna start breaking ground thisyear, something that housing is
a big issue, as you know, thatare one that's often talked
about is childcare.
And we just received a lot offunding towards childcare. So
we're gonna, we have to workwith not for profit
organizations to providechildcare services, increased

(51:51):
childcare services across manyof our wings. Those are those
are things that are starting tohappen as early as this summer.
Okay. Not at all locations, justto be clear.
Because there still needs to bea lot more investment that comes
in to that. And then in ourdiscussions on 2%, how quickly
we go there. The first thingthat's in there is people. Our

(52:12):
North Strong and Free policythat was released a year ago,
talked a lot about it. There'sno funding that was actually
allocated to people.
So we now have calculated whatthe funding component is. I'm
not just saying pay or benefits.I'm also talking about all those
other tangible things thatactually allow a family to feel

(52:33):
supported, are now part of thatto include expanded housing,
expanded childcare, andadditional support services. We
have a virtual telemedicinecapability that's provided, that
was initially put together inthe pandemic that it remains
enduring, we continue to pay forthat. So if you move to a new
province, you can't get healthcare, because it's so hard to
get family doctors, then you cango into the virtual health care

(52:56):
and be prescribed something.
It's not what we want, but atleast it's available to you.

Bryan (53:00):
Okay.

Eric (53:00):
To our families. So these are some of the things. And now
with the provinces agreeing toremove some of the provincial
jurisdictions with respect tolicensing, of the things that
we've been trying to get afterfor a while, For professionals,
spouses in particular. I thinkthat's gonna, really if that
goes through, and we'll see bythe time the podcast comes out,

(53:20):
then we can really, I thinkwe'll see some really big
difference for our families whenthey move in there seeking

Bryan (53:26):
for

Eric (53:26):
spouses employment.

Bryan (53:28):
Now all we need is those nationwide driver's licenses and
health cards that people havebeen wanting.

Eric (53:34):
I'm not gonna say we're gonna get that anytime soon.

Bryan (53:36):
No. I know. That's probably a bridge too far. So we
talked a little about managingdata from all our new sensor
platforms. Many of our newplatforms such as the P8A
Poseidon and the CQ9B Guardianare sensor platforms that are
going to produce a ton of data.
What are we doing to invest insupport programs to ensure we
have the people and software toanalyze make use of the data

(53:58):
these platforms are bringing in?Are we going to run things the
exact same way we use ourAurora? Are we going to be able
to benefit from the enhancedcapabilities of these platforms?

Eric (54:08):
Of course, the goal is to enhance and not do the things
things exactly the same way. Oneof the things that we are going
to establish as part of ourstructure review isn't what we
call an ISR squadron. We thinkit's about 300 people. And this
would be new. It'd be a newsquadron that does intelligence
surveillance and reconnaissance.

(54:29):
And so they would take the feedfrom the p eight and they would
be the ones that would work it.

Bryan (54:33):
Okay.

Eric (54:34):
We need to work with CF intelligence command. So CF
intelligence command hasrecognized that they're only
gonna have so much capacity andthat the services need to have
their own organic capacity. ThatISR squadron right now is not
envisioned to support that 35,just to be clear. So that's a
kind of a separate thing. Butthat would be what would take
the CQ nine that would wouldtake the p eight and make it

(54:59):
into a true capability.
Not yet fully developed andwon't be because we're going to
grow it, develop for some time.But that's so those are some of
the things and then it's alsothe pipes that feed all this,
whether it's through satcom orthrough land based or five gs or

(55:20):
whatever, we're working veryclosely with digital services.
Of course, the way our projectsare designed, it doesn't include
all these things. Right. Sothey're all individual projects.
And we've now done a really goodjob, think, mapping all these
and the interdependencies andwhere some things are happening
later than they need to betrying to shift them.

Bryan (55:38):
Okay. So I'm very interested to hear your insight
on this as a graduate of thefighter weapons instructor
course. The old air warfare gameused to be about being an expert
tactician and solid instructorin your platform, which things
like Topgundo and fighterweapons instructor course did.
There's another layer though,which is being able to integrate

(55:58):
all aspects of aerospace andcyber power to lead in planning,
execution, tactics, development,and so on. Courses like the
USAP's weapons school, the RAF'squalified weapons instructor,
and RAAF's air warfareinstructor course do this.
Will we be standing up a courseto help us take in full
advantage of fifth gencapabilities?

Eric (56:17):
We're not there yet. I I think the best example would be
the vast Tactics WeaponInstructor course at WIC that
were we just ran a serialthrough in the fall last year.
Okay. It's kind of a derivativeof TWIC, the tactical electronic
warfare instructor course. Andfire weapons instructor course

(56:42):
kind of merged a little bit, butit's still under development.
One of the challenges that weran into that course was having
the people with the rightsecurity clearances at the
highest levels to be able to dothe full course. So we started
the course with a larger numberthat not everybody can complete
the course because they couldn'tget their highest level security
clearance in time, which by theway is being addressed because

(57:03):
we've hired 60 people now. Okay.So start doing security
clearances recently.

Bryan (57:07):
Well, that's good news.

Eric (57:10):
So that's that right now, that's kind of the main model.
But our aerospace warfare centeris connected with The UK,
Australian and US. And so we, wedo leverage a lot of the work
that they're doing as well. Andwhere we can put people on
courses such as that, we canonly do so much at a time. So
that's, know, I'd like to give abit a better answer, but that's
I think Atwick would be the bestexample.

Bryan (57:31):
Okay. And hopefully with further development in the
future.

Eric (57:34):
Yep. Okay.

Bryan (57:37):
So this has been, an issue for a while. It's a well
known issue that there are many,many pilot trainees stuck in the
backlog taking years to getqualified. What is the RCAF
doing to streamline training toreduce the backlog and time
wasted waiting? And has therebeen any thought to expansion in
Moose Jaw for greater trainingcapacity?

Eric (57:54):
So if I was to go back to 2020, the one decision I would
have made different is not toshut down flying training during
COVID.

Bryan (58:03):
Yeah.

Eric (58:04):
Just because it's so hard to shut it. Well, it wasn't hard
to shut it down. It was so hardto turn it back on. Right. Which
is what's created our backlog,as you know, so.
So if you're starting pilottraining shortly, or you're
gonna be on phase one right now,you've come in at the perfect
time. We're actually canceling aphase one course because we have

(58:26):
nobody to load on it. Oh. Thewait time for phase one I think
is two months, and phase two isthree months if you're starting.
But we have this group thatstarted during the pandemic
that's still not necessarilyfinished phase three, who are
waiting, I think it was sixhundred days from phase two to
phase three.

Bryan (58:46):
Oh, that hurts.

Eric (58:47):
Right? So that bubble is almost at phase three or through
phase three. The way we tried toaddress that bubble was a couple
of things. One, we reduced thenumber of pilots we were
enrolling. And you got to thinkof those that are going to go
through university, people weenrolled today will graduate in
now 2029.

(59:10):
So you got to think that farout. But we had already made
decisions. So we had a wholebunch of people graduating out
of universities. And nothing washappening from a training
perspective. That's what createdthat huge bubble.
Right. And our training capacityis fixed at a certain amount. So
that bubble was addressed bygetting slots down at NGEP, your

(59:32):
own NATO jet training program,where we got a whole bunch of T
six slots. And so we're able todo a lot of phase two training
down there that other nationsweren't using because there's
problems with their T 38. Iforget the exact number of
people we ended up getting downthere, but I want to say it's
over 30.

Bryan (59:46):
Okay.

Eric (59:47):
So that that was a way to actually address some of the
phase two bubble that we had,which pushed to the phase three,
which is what we're seeing now.The projections right now is
that in the next year to yearand a half, that bubble should
be through. And I I've it painsme to no end that people have
had to wait that long just to beclear. It's not something I
wanted to ever have. But thosewho are graduating in the summer

(01:00:11):
from university should be ableto transition on the phase one
by then in the summer.
And then projections are about Ithink it's about three months to
phase two and then about sixmonths to phase three.

Bryan (01:00:23):
Okay.

Eric (01:00:24):
So it'll be a much quicker process. Give me about another
year to year and a half and thatshould all play out. To the
point where we almost didn'tallow any pilots to be enrolled
last year. Right. Going touniversity because they would
graduate in 2028, or they willgraduate in 2028, which is when

(01:00:45):
we're going to shut down NATOflying training in Canada and
contract flying training systemin Portage and transition to
future crew training.
And the future crew training notmay not be fully up. So what we
were what we didn't want to dois have people graduate just as
everything shut down.

Bryan (01:00:59):
Basically run into another giant bubble.

Eric (01:01:01):
In our bubble. Or the other thing we want we're trying
to prevent is people grad kindof halfway through say phase two
on NFTC and now fact starts upand there's they're not the same
thing and how do you go fromphase two NFTC to phase three
fact. So that's what we'retrying to prevent. But at the
same time, there's always gonnabe other opportunities. So I

(01:01:22):
didn't we didn't shut it down.
But we really reduced thenumbers. And right now, it's all
looking like we should have allthose that we've enrolled to be
pilots graduate and be able toget through course on time.

Bryan (01:01:33):
Okay. You never know this is this could be where your
experience with creative flighttraining solutions could come in
handy where you did a totallynon standard phase one.

Eric (01:01:42):
Yeah. Exactly. It's it's very possible. We've done it
throughout our history. Andwe've and I've I've talked to
our allies and many have steppedup and given us thoughts.

Bryan (01:01:51):
That's awesome. We've talked a lot about the c q nine
Guardian coming online. And onething we haven't discussed is
who will be crewing it. Ibelieve it's going to be still
flown by pilots. Why are westill using fully trained pilots
to fly our pass systems whensome of our peer nations are
not?

Eric (01:02:08):
So the c q nine bravo Guardian will be a fully
certified platform able to flyin all air spaces. There will be
a requirement to have, from acivilian equivalency
perspective, civil aircrew orpilot certification, which is
what drove us along the path ofselecting it to be a pilot. It's

(01:02:31):
different than m q nine alpha,just to be clear. So it's not
like the predator. It's not likethe reaper either.
Because this has, TCAS.

Bryan (01:02:39):
TCAS is traffic alert and collision avoidance system.

Eric (01:02:43):
It has an ability to fly in all air spaces, segregated,
unsegregated, which is not howtheir platforms are used
currently. Australia sorry, TheUK is getting SkyGuardian as
well. And I think they call itthe protector. Their person
flying it will be a pilot.

Bryan (01:03:01):
Okay.

Eric (01:03:02):
In fact, The US went down a path where they weren't using
pilots. And then they've goneback to a path where they're
using pilots. So the Koreancomposition right now, I just
approved this the other day, aslight change. So it'll be a
pilot who will fly it, an Aesopwho will be the sensor operator.
And the third position in whichinitially going to be an
intelligence operator, int op.

(01:03:24):
What we recognize is that persondoesn't actually have a role to
do intelligence processing,that'll be the ISR squadron in
the feed that'll go back. And soI disapproved that it'll be Axel
or combat system operator, thatwill fill the third position as
the tactical coordinator. Okay.If you think about the roar of
your background, it'seffectively that role. Yep.
Coordination. And so those threepeople will be one crew and

(01:03:51):
they'll work as a team todeliver the facts with the
Guardian.

Bryan (01:03:55):
What level of training will the pilot receive? Is it
gonna be fully, phase one, phasetwo, phase three? Or what's the
plan there?

Eric (01:04:02):
Wing standard. Whether it is jet or multi engine or
helicopter, I haven't, I don'thave a good answer on that one
yet. Okay. But it's it's a wingstandard pilot.

Bryan (01:04:12):
Okay. Very interesting. Thank you for for answering that
one. So our last question fromthe audience. CAF procurement
has been notoriously slow andthe RCAF is no exception.
For example, thirty two years toreplace a helicopter. What if
anything are the RCAF, the CAFand the government of Canada
doing to mitigate these issuesin order to procure equipment,

(01:04:33):
resources, and capabilities inthe future?

Eric (01:04:35):
In December of this past year, '20 '20 '4, the government
made a change to contracting,regulations, which allows us
when we do a national securityexemption to go sole source. Not
widely talked about. We prettymuch do national security
exemptions for everything webuy. So our ability to go sole
source much easier now. Okay.

(01:04:57):
Two, we're doing a lot morepartnerships with industry. As
an example, fighter lead intraining, the future fighter
lead in training as we call it,to replace the Hawks that were
retired last year. That projectright now, if we had done the
normal procurement approachwould likely deliver in the
02/2036 timeline. Ten, twelveyears from when we retired the

(01:05:19):
Hawk. But we have partnered withCAE who does NFTC, who did our
fire lead in training for usbefore.
They have been selected by usand the government of Canada to
be our strategic partner.They're gonna help us define the
requirements and form thecontract. And with that, we

(01:05:39):
estimate that we'll be initialcapable flying in 02/1931.

Bryan (01:05:44):
Okay. That's great news.

Eric (01:05:46):
So we we did something else with L3Harris. We're about
to do something else withanother, organization that we
might hear about soon.

Bryan (01:05:52):
Okay.

Eric (01:05:53):
So we're we're doing things much differently and
there's the sense of urgency inOttawa and within the government
right now is primarily becauseof what's going on in the world
situation, but as well withwhat's happening on the US
administration side is there. II've never seen so much
willingness to move things alongquickly.

Bryan (01:06:13):
Well, that's good news for us. Yeah. That does it for
our questions from the audience.Final question for you. What
message would you like to sharewith the men and women of the
RCAF as they work to meet thechallenges of today and prepare
for the future?

Eric (01:06:27):
So I fully recognize that there's uncertainty, concern, as
Canadians about everythingthat's going on here in Canada,
around the world with the USadministration. I ask that we
remain focused on our enduringadversaries and understand what
our mission set is that we areseeking to accomplish, which is

(01:06:51):
to achieve operationaladvantages and agile,
integrated, inclusive air andspace force. We will do that
with the people that we have andthe people that we will soon
enroll in both the air and spaceside. But we have to be very
clear that we don't have a lotof time. So there's an urgency
and a pace component to this, toprepare ourselves for potential

(01:07:14):
major combat operations with aready, resilient, relevant, and
lethal force that can deter theadversaries from doing
something, but if required tofight and win.
So I just want to thank all ouraviators, all our regular force,
reserve force, public service,NPF, contractors and families

(01:07:35):
who support that mission.Because without the entire team,
we will not be successful. And Icould not think of a more noble
thing to do. Having served forthirty six years now, I joined,
I wanted to travel around theworld. I wanted to do something
for Canada.
I've had that opportunity.Situation is completely

(01:07:55):
different now, thirty six yearslater. And, and I'm hopeful that
we as a team can move forwardto, to protect Canadians and
give the government options.Okay. As well, I got to thank
you, Brian, like thank you foreverything that you do and for
your advocacy.
Because without podcasts such asthis, we're not able to speak to

(01:08:20):
all of our audiences. And so Icommend you for everything
you're doing as well.

Bryan (01:08:23):
It's my pleasure. I love doing the show. And I love
having guests like you on it.So, with that being said, this
wraps up our chat today on yourposition as commander of RCAF
and the current state and futureof the RCAF as well as some
audience questions. It's been ahuge honor to have you on the
show today, and I really wannathank you for giving me some of
your time.
Thank you so much.

Eric (01:08:42):
Thank you.

Bryan (01:08:43):
Okay. That wraps up our two part series with lieutenant
general Eric Kenny on his careerand the Royal Canadian Air
Force. For our next episode,we're gonna be starting a two
part series that is superexciting. We'll be sitting down
with retired fighter pilot, DanMcWilliams. Dan was a Cold War
fighter pilot.
He was one of the first cadreson the CF eighteen Hornet, and
he's also flown several otherclassic Cold War fighter jets.

(01:09:07):
It's going to be a greatinterview. You don't wanna miss
this one. Do you have anyquestions or comments about
anything you've heard in thisshow? Would you or someone you
know make a great guest, or doyou have a great idea for a
show?
You can reach out to us at [e-mail] or
on all social media at at podpilot project. And be sure to
check out that social media forlots of great videos of our RCAF

(01:09:28):
aircraft. As always, we'd liketo thank you for tuning in and
ask for your help with the bigthree. That's like and follow us
on social media, share with yourfriends, and follow and rate us
five stars wherever you get yourpodcasts. That's all for now.
Thanks for listening. Keep theblue side up. See you. Engineer,
shut down all four. Shuttingdown all four engines.