What was it like to deploy to Afghanistan as the Deputy Commanding Officer of Canadian Helicopter Forces in Afghanistan (CHFA)? What was the Tactical Helicopter role in Afghanistan at the time and how violent was it in 2009? Today we sit down with Major-General Jeannot Boucher, Chief of Staff Chief Professional Conduct and Culture (COS CPCC). Jeannot has over 3000 flying hours, and has definitely been there and done that. Tune in today for part 1 of our 3 part discussion on his career and culture change in the Canadian Armed Forces.
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Bryan (00:28):
Hey, everybody. It's your host, Brian Morrison here with
our standard RCAF senior officerpre episode commentary. We live
in a twenty four hour newscycle, and comments can be very
quickly overtaken by events. Soto put things in perspective,
this interview was recorded inearly January.
Intro/Outro (00:46):
Fuel and ignition switches on RPM switches. Set TV
switches. Normal doors andhatches.
Jeannot (00:52):
Closed lay
Intro/Outro (00:53):
down. Strobe light On. Research check-in. Complete
clear left. Engineer.
Start number two. Turning two.Wing three one zero ten. Pilot
project broadcast. Cleartakeoff.
Runway three one left.
Bryan (01:14):
Alright. We're ready for departure here at the pilot
project podcast, the best sourcefor stories and advice from RCAF
and Mission Aviation Pilotsbrought to you by Sky's
Magazine. I'm your host, BrianMorrison. With me today is the
current chief of staff, chiefprofessional conduct and
culture, major general, GenoBoucher. Geno, welcome to the
show and thanks so much forbeing here.
Jeannot (01:34):
Thanks, Brian. I look forward to this.
Bryan (01:36):
Yeah. I've been looking forward to it as well. So before
we start, let's go over Geno'sbio. Major general Geno Boucher
joined the Canadian Armed Forcesin 1992. He was at College
Military Royal de Saint Jeanfrom 1992 to '95.
When it was closed, he moved tothe Royal Military College of
Canada, RMC Kingston, where hegraduated in 1997 and obtained
(01:58):
his pilot wings one year later.His postings include four three
nine combat support squadron inBagotville, Four Zero Three
Helicopter Operational TrainingSquadron in Gaketown, Analyst
within the vice chief of defensestaff organization, four thirty
tactical helicopter squadronwhere he deployed as operations
officer and deputy commandingofficer for Canadian helicopter
force Afghanistan or CHFA inAfghanistan in 02/2009, faculty
(02:23):
at the USAF Air Command andStaff College, executive
assistant to the commander ofthe RCAF, chief of staff of
first Canadian division, anddirector general within the
chief of force development andchief professional conduct and
culture. His commandappointments include commander
of four three zero tacticalhelicopter squadron in 02/2015,
(02:43):
commander of one wing, twothousand sixteen to eighteen,
interim commander of firstCanadian division, two thousand
eighteen to two thousand twenty,and commander of task force
Jerusalem for Op Proteus, twothousand twenty to 02/2021. In
January 2023, he was promoted tohis current rank. He is
currently the chief of staff,chief professional conduct and
culture.
Major general Boucher hasaccumulated over 3,000 flying
(03:06):
hours in his career. He has abachelor's degree in politics
and economics and a master's inwarfare studies from RMC
Kingston, a master's inoperational art and science from
United States Air Force AirUniversity, and is a graduate of
the Air War College distancelearning program. He enjoys all
sports, has been happily marriedfor over twenty years, and is
the proud father of two amazingchildren. So, Juno, let's talk a
(03:29):
bit about your sportsbackground. You mentioned you
enjoy all sports, especiallyhockey.
Can you tell us more about yourhockey career in CMR and RMC and
how these experiences shapedyou?
Jeannot (03:38):
I wouldn't call it a hockey career, but yeah, did
have the privilege of playing acollege hockey in CMR and
university college in RMC. Iwould say the experience
basically forged my character. Ilearned so much about teamwork,
about the importance of having asystem that's tailored, I guess,
to the strength and weakness ofeach of the members of the team
(04:01):
and understanding your rolewithin that system and within
that team and making sure you'redisciplined and accountable in
executing that role. I also hadthe privilege of having an
exceptional coach at RMC JacquesTremblay which was the
university coach of the year in1996 I believe and he used to
call the dressing room theschool of life. So not only did
(04:23):
we play hockey but we alsolearned a lot of life skills
throughout that time.
I learned a lot by playingagainst people that were a lot
better than me. So RMC being avery small school playing in the
highly competitive universityassociation, you're always
playing with better people. So Icame to understand that the best
(04:44):
we can do is just use all theskills we have, work as hard as
we can and just be the best teamwe can. I also learned the
importance of using all yourplayers. You have four lines if
you're going to get through aseason and be competitive the
whole time.
You need everyone's contributionand everybody needs to be a
(05:05):
leader within that team.
Bryan (05:07):
For sure. Did you find that a lot of this translated
over to your military life aswell?
Jeannot (05:12):
Yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, basically all of it to
me, I see life through hockey.So, so, so discipline,
discipline, and basicallycompeting for something greater
than yourself. Like I just lovethe fact of being part of the
team. Then when you're in theCanadian Armed Forces as a pilot
or whatever trade you're in,know, one of the, you're there
(05:34):
to serve your country.
So therefore your purpose everyday is to serve something that's
a lot bigger than yourself.
Bryan (05:39):
For sure. So we've talked
about your love for sports. What inspired your love
for aviation?
Jeannot (05:44):
That's a funny story. I was 16 years old in high school
and quite honestly, we couldhave a day off of school if we
went to visit CMR St. Jean. Ibasically went to visit the
school that day and my parentswere not very rich at the time.
There were four children andthroughout the day I realized I
could study for free and when Ivisited the hockey rink, I
(06:07):
realized I could play hockey forfree.
I could have my gear and play ata very competitive level. My mom
always laughed and said, when Icame back that evening, I just
said, that's where I'm going.And that's how I decided to, to
join the military and aviation.So I'd actually never flown in
my life and and really didn'tknow that much about aviation.
Bryan (06:27):
That's too funny. Actually, you're not the first
pilot I've spoken to before, noton this show, but friends of
mine who joined the military.Like, a big motivator was, wow.
I could play sports like a lotof the time here and get paid to
do it.
Jeannot (06:42):
Yeah. I mean, that was the main one. And and during
that visit, like I met peopleand maybe unconsciously I
realized like, wow, liketeamwork is a huge part of this
institution. Leadership is ahuge part of this institution.
And, you know, identity wise,like I could identify with the
people that were there.
And as I said earlier, like Ifelt I would be part of
(07:03):
something that's bigger thanmyself. I think deep down, I've
always wanted to serve. I likebefore that visit, I wanted to
be a teacher and I'm stillpassionate about teaching, which
to me has translated intocoaching. So I think without
knowing it was a prettyimportant day in my life.
Bryan (07:23):
And it's interesting that you enjoy teaching as well
because that ends up being a bigpart of what you do as a pilot.
Jeannot (07:29):
Well, exactly. I mean, as a pilot, I think every day
you're learning, but you're alsoteaching like you're, you know,
I, in my pilot career, I wasobviously quite a bit, but I was
an instructor, I was astandards, I was an instrument
check pilot. I think in allthose roles, I realized I loved
and I wanted to do was have thechance to pass on some of that
(07:50):
knowledge and and learn fromjust the amazing people and
experienced people we haveacross our institution.
Bryan (07:56):
For sure. So you mentioned that you didn't really
know anything about aviation.What actually led you to choose
pilot as your trade?
Jeannot (08:03):
I went to the recruiting center and and and
sat down with whoever was thereat the time and thought that
flying airplanes seemed coolhonestly. And then my second
choice, funny enough, wasarmored. Driving tanks seemed
cool and then being an aerospaceengineer was my third choice. So
it was really attracted, Iguess, by what I thought the
(08:23):
experience would be of of offlying and being in the air.
Bryan (08:26):
So really like right place, right time that they
needed pilots at that time andthat that was just something you
thought, hey, I'll try that.
Jeannot (08:32):
Yeah. And and to be quite honest, I think I would
have joined regardless. I haveso many friends in the military
that joined to be pilots orother trades and things
sometimes don't work out andthey switch trades and they're
still in thirty years later.They're super leaders. They're
leading whether logisticinfantry.
I mean, yeah, exceptional peoplejoin, I think you just need to
(08:54):
be open minded and and and takeevery opportunity that's in
front of you.
Bryan (08:59):
%. There's a lot of really cool trades in the in the
RCAF and within the CanadianArmed Forces as a whole. So
let's talk a bit about yourflight training. You did phase
one on the CT one elevenSlingsby Firefly. Were you
intimidated or excited to startyour RCAF flight training?
Jeannot (09:14):
I think I was both intimidated and excited quite
honestly. As I said, my parentsactually paid a hundred $99 plus
tax. I think it was $115 to getme flying one hour because I'd
never flown in my life before Iwent there. When I got there,
was just an amazing summer. Ilearned so much and I was
reflecting, preparing for this.
(09:35):
And I still remember e fateauengine failure after takeoff and
zoom idle air start and then howyou can like pick a landing spot
and try to land if you lost yourengine. So it was a great
experience.
Bryan (09:48):
Yeah. I didn't do phase one, but honestly, sometimes I
wish I did. I hear so manypeople who had such a great time
on that course. Like, I know itcan be stressful. I know
especially in your time that itwas a selection course very much
so to see who can make it andwho can't.
But I hear so many people saylike that was one of the best
summers of their life.
Jeannot (10:06):
Yeah. And it's I think throughout pilot training, it's
amazing. It's exciting, but it'salso it's also humbling and hard
in the sense you're tested everyday. You need to learn at a
pretty fast pace and deliver. Soagain, I think the experience
was exceptional for everybodybut as you said, unfortunately,
think the failure rate was alittle bit higher.
(10:28):
For some people, probably theexperience wasn't as good.
Bryan (10:31):
But those of you folks who made it through went on to
phase two on the CT one fourteentutor. By that time, the tutor
was nearing replacement. Whatwas it like flying the tutor as
it neared the end of its life asa trainer?
Jeannot (10:42):
Simply amazing. But but to me as a young I think I was
probably 21. Like, as a young 21year old there, all I could
think is I'm flying the sameaircraft as the Snowbird. So
every day I'd get in there andI'd be so excited. I'm flying
the same plane as the Snowbirds.
There's probably a lot ofmaintenance issues and all that
going on. But to me at thattime, that was very transparent
to me. Like I get in theaircraft when it was available
(11:04):
and go flying. So it wasawesome.
Bryan (11:06):
Yeah. The Tutor is such a legendary aircraft. I really
think that like, I loved flyingthe Harvard two. It's such a
sweet plane, but the chance tofly the tutor to fly a little
jet is such a cool opportunity.
Jeannot (11:20):
Yeah. Like, I that was my experience, but, yeah, like,
I I feel pretty lucky I had thechance to do that.
Bryan (11:25):
What would you say was the most challenging part of
phase two?
Jeannot (11:28):
You know, I thought about that. There's a lot of
challenging parts. To me, Ithink was my I think it was my
solo flight after ten hours,about ten hours or six or seven
flights. But all I all Iremember is my girlfriend flying
down and with my instructorgoing on my pre solo and
landing. And in the debriefingroom, he's sitting with me and
he's like, you're just giving metwo options.
(11:49):
I either pass you. He says, Ieither fail you and I ruin your
weekend because it was on aFriday or I pass you and I'm
sitting nervously as you're inthe air for the next hour or so.
Then obviously he passed me andI went flying and it was
amazing. All that to say that,as I said, flying training is
(12:09):
demanding and you're learning.And even if the instructor tells
you you're ready at times, Ithink you don't feel you're
ready, but you are so.
Bryan (12:17):
Well, that first solo is pretty nerve wracking. It
doesn't like, I've had a fewfirst solos. Like, I did my
first solo on a glider back inair cadets and then I did my
solo on a powered aircraft. Butyour first solo in a military
aircraft that's high performanceand more complex, there's a lot
to that. It's prettyintimidating to go up by
yourself and and go do that.
Jeannot (12:38):
Yeah. And I think it, you know, there's such a
difference between being acopilot and bearing an aircraft
commander, as you said, goingsolo and being yourself, right?
Like when you're with aninstructor or with an aircraft
commander, trust them and if youmake a mistake, they're gonna be
there to help you recover you.When you're on your own, you're
on your own. I think it'snecessary.
(12:59):
Such a very important step forpersonal growth and confidence
but also obviously to kind ofdevelop your skills and realize
how serious it is. I mean,mistakes can have catastrophic
consequences if you're if youdon't if you're not cautious.
Bryan (13:12):
Yeah. A %. So you went back to RMC and graduated and
something that's pretty cool isyou got your wings just one year
after graduating from RMC andthat was on the Bell two zero
six. So was that typical at thetime? And do you think we'll
ever see timelines like thatagain in the RCAF?
Jeannot (13:29):
Yeah. We were quite privileged. I graduated in May.
I was in in Boozhaw right afterand I think it was May to about
March, so about eight or ninemonths. Then I got about a week
and a half and I was in Portageon the Bell two zero six and got
my wings in July.
So it took about fourteen monthsto get my wings. I went to my
unit after and in September Iwas doing my operational
(13:52):
training unit and was qualifiedby December. So yeah, obviously
that was amazing. I know it'sdifferent today. I'm not sure
we're going to get to thosetimelines.
I think we're trying to make itfaster but I would just tell
people take advantage of thetime in between. You know, when
everything is close, it seemsawesome. You wish you had time
between your courses. When youhave too much time, obviously
(14:16):
that's not better but there's alot of things you can do and
gain other types of experience,I guess, as you have some
periods of time between yourcourses.
Bryan (14:26):
Yeah, for sure. I guess there's pros and cons to when
it's very fast, like you canfeel rushed and you don't get a
break. If it's too slow,obviously, you feel like you're
waiting forever, and that's notideal either. And I guess you
said I had thought you went backto RMC, but you actually did
that all in one shot after RMC.
Jeannot (14:42):
Yeah. Well, I did the Slingsby. So that 's I think
that was summer ninety five. Wekinda did phase one, but then
phase two, three, and the OTUwas all after graduation in May.
Bryan (14:52):
Wow. And at that time, you got your wings on the Bell
two zero six. Is that correct?
Jeannot (14:57):
Yeah. I got my wing on the my wings on the bell two
zero six at the three CFFTS inPortage in July 1998.
Bryan (15:04):
What was your favorite part of phase three?
Jeannot (15:06):
Phase three was amazing to me. Like, I think I've, you
know, I I come from a small townand for whatever reason to me,
like, I was excited to to flylow to the ground, be able to
land anywhere. The two zero sixinstructors would tell you all
you need to do is keep the skidsclear from the ground. So we'd
fly so low. Think with some ofthe experienced pilots, I'd put
my legs in the air at times.
(15:28):
We were so close to the ground.And I'd also say for me, like
hands and feet wise, flying asmall helicopter, doing very
tight confined areas. It wasjust, it was great. I felt I
had, you know, I had selected orI had the opportunity to fly
what I wanted, which washelicopters.
Bryan (15:45):
Yeah. So helicopters were your first choice?
Jeannot (15:48):
Yeah. They were my first choice the whole time.
Obviously, in Moose Jaw, a lotof people have those
conversations. Are you goinghalos? Are you going fixed wing?
Are you going jets? And we allhave different personalities. I
think it's important to kind ofunderstand who we are, be true
to who we are and then go forwhat we want to do. We're all
different. Yeah,
Bryan (16:08):
I totally agree. There's different types of people for
each different platform anddifferent people have different
temperaments that are suited tovarious aircraft and usually
hopefully it works out that theyget on kind of where they belong
and that the instructors get toknow them and get to have an
idea of like where they shouldend up.
Jeannot (16:24):
Yeah. But some people change over their careers. Like
I I stayed in tech aviation mywhole career, but I have friends
that started in tech aviationand moved on to fixed wing or to
instructor and jets. But I alsoknow fixed wing are, know, Herc
pilots or C-seventeen pilotsthat came back to helicopters
after seeking people that cameto attack aviation. Again, like
(16:45):
diversity of perspectives ofexperience just makes us richer.
So I think, you know, onceagain, like it's a privilege to
fly to start with. So whateveryou get, like go with an open
mind and make the boast of it.But then at one point, if you
feel you want to be challengeddifferently, obviously go for it
and you'll be able to do it.
Bryan (17:04):
Yeah. For sure. In the Aurora community, it was, like,
it was pretty rare that we wouldhave an outsider to make their
way into the Aurora community.But when we did, it was always
interesting to hear theirdifferent perspectives just on
how they did businessdifferently, whether that was
tactically within the aircraftor just in general
organizationally. So I do agreethat it's good for the air force
to have people kind of crosspollinate in different
(17:24):
communities.
Jeannot (17:25):
I think we underestimate the importance and
the and the, you know, the powerof perspective, diversity of
experience. And in a worldthat's increasingly complex,
multifaceted, we need that. Weneed this culture where we're
able to see things from multipleperspectives. We tend to fear
the unknown or be cautious withthe unknown as well. So as you
(17:46):
said, every time somebody comesfrom a different community, we
kind of we have more questions.
But as you said, once we get toknow them, we're like, wow, they
bring a lot of value to the teambecause they're bringing in a
way of looking at things that wedidn't have.
Bryan (17:59):
For sure. And there can be a little bit of hesitancy at
first when you're like, well,that's not how we do things. But
sometimes the way they they'resuggesting can be even better.
Jeannot (18:07):
Absolutely.
Bryan (18:09):
So looking back on this early flight training, did you
have any especially momentsduring that time?
Jeannot (18:15):
Of course, I did. I think we all do. I mean, flight
training or a lot of thetraining is difficult. To me, I
think it was more I was prettygood on clear hood. I was good
on night flying.
So I was I was good on thosethings but I was more challenged
myself on formation andnavigation. If I think at phase
two on the tutor, the formationphase, even if I thought I was
pretty good, I think myinstructors proved to me I
(18:36):
wasn't as good as I thought onthat. And on helicopters while I
passed, but for the remainder ofmy career, navigation was
something that, you know, I Iwould admit some people were
much better at than I am. So weall have our strengths and
weaknesses, and I think it'simportant to be, yeah, be aware
of those.
Bryan (18:53):
Well, those are two super challenging super fun, but super
challenging phases of flighttraining too. Like, I really
enjoyed form and I reallyenjoyed low level nav, but
they're very difficult. It takessome some time to master those.
Jeannot (19:07):
I've always enjoyed those. And even in helicopters
that, like, we you can flypretty tight at night on on on
on Griffin helicopters. Butagain, like, if I'm if I'm
honest with myself, there's someof my peers were a lot better at
me than I was on that.
Bryan (19:22):
Yeah. That's fair. So your first posting after you got
your wings was to four threenine combat support squadron in
Bagotville, Quebec. Was thisyour first choice?
Jeannot (19:31):
No. It wasn't, actually. I was I wanted to go
search and rescue the wholetime, and I can't even really
tell you why but I wanted to gosearch and rescue. I wanted to
go to Trenton. I knew there wasa spot there.
I actually had a retest on mylast flight of the whole course.
So I finished second on thecourse so my options became
Gander for primary SAR inBaggettville which was combat
(19:52):
support. After being away for ayear and a half, being a couple
of years in Kingston and awayfor a year and a half, I decided
to be a bit closer to family andwent to Baggettville in Quebec
and kind of accepted thecompromise I'll say of being in
a unit that does secondarysearch and rescue.
Bryan (20:11):
Yeah. That's that's kind of nice though. Sometimes you
can make that compromise betweenlike professional and personal
goals because you can't alwaysonly favor just the career
aspect of things or you won'thave balance in your life.
Right?
Jeannot (20:24):
Well, to me, yeah, I think you're touching on it.
Like there there's pros and consto every option. And and and
again, you need to think thosethrough and then kind of be true
to yourself and and and have anopen mind. And to me, every
experience along the way was wasamazing because of that.
Bryan (20:40):
What would you say was your biggest challenge when you
arrived at four thirty nine? Anddid you feel prepared for the
new job?
Jeannot (20:46):
Well, to me, I think you fall in love with your first
unit. So that that there waschallenges, but I see them more
in terms of opportunities. Itwas a small unit, 50 or 60
people. There was eight pilots.I think the challenge was I was
the only lieutenant that showedup there.
So they were waiting for me. Soall the secondary duties you can
imagine were thrown at me. Butwhen I look back, I say that was
(21:08):
kind of an opportunity because Ilearned so many different
things. And being the only youngone with seven other experienced
pilots was such that I wasexposed to like different
styles, different leadership,and also had tons of
opportunities because, you know,those people had families. So
whether it was nights, weekendsor certain flights they wouldn't
(21:29):
want to do, I would jump oneverything.
So I think in the end, it wasactually a huge opportunity.
Bryan (21:34):
Yeah. That sounds like a pretty good go for, like, a
young new pilot. Can you tell usa little more about what the
squadron's role at the time was?
Jeannot (21:41):
The squadron's role, like, it was called combat
support squadron but basicallywe were doing search and rescue
missions was the main thing wedid. We actually operated with,
I forget the name, I think it'stwo thousand nine hundred and
five but we actually operated asper the primary search and
rescue manual. So that's what wedid most of the time and that's
what we trained for.
Bryan (22:03):
So you mentioned that four three nine works as combat
support but also performs a roleas secondary search and rescue
and in fact that most of whatyou did was search and rescue.
Can you tell us about anyinteresting SAR missions you
conducted?
Jeannot (22:15):
Yeah. Well, one comes to mind, which is a a, you know,
a pilot, I guess, an older anolder pilot that ended up in a
whiteout about 200 miles northon a Friday. And we only got the
call from his wife on theMonday. So Oh, wow. We did the
search and we found the airplaneon a small lake on the Monday.
And when we landed on that lake,we found that a grandfather in
(22:37):
his sixties had been sittingthere for three days beside the
plane with broken legs.
Bryan (22:42):
Oh my gosh.
Jeannot (22:43):
Yeah. And we brought him back and he said how his
grandchildren are the ones thatkept him basically alive for
those three days. So that's oneexample, but yeah, hugely
rewarding. I would also like,you know, quick highlights, but
major search and rescue,remember flying fifty hours over
seven days or one mission upnorth of flying 12.4 in my
(23:08):
logbook and an eighteen hourcrew day to fly to get Sartex
and fly all the way up toGujarat. Finally, night flying
in the North Of Quebec is justamazing.
And night boat work when you'reinserting search and rescue
technicians on hoists on shipsat night, I don't think there's
anything more challenging. Soyeah, some amazing some amazing
(23:31):
work in in the search and rescueworld that that that our that
our people do.
Bryan (23:35):
That is some crazy flight time in short periods that you
mentioned there. I just alwayslike to highlight this for
listeners that, you know, likein in my world, the Aurora
world, okay, fifth fifty hoursin a week is like is doable.
It's busy, but it's doable. On ahelicopter, that's crazy. That's
a lot of flying time.
Jeannot (23:54):
Yeah. We were searching for somebody around, I think in
New Brunswick that had crashedin the winter. So we would get
to the aircraft, it was stilldark. We would get everything
ready and take off when the sunwould rise because it was
January and it was really cold.And then we would basically do
two full tanks of fuel so about3.7, three point eight each and
(24:15):
then we would land as the sunwould come down and then we
would start over again.
At first when they wanted tosend me back after a week, said,
No, no, I want to stay for twoweeks. But after a week at that
pace, I kind of took a bit of abreak and and understood why.
Bryan (24:28):
Yeah. I would think that'd be exhausting. Yeah. So
in 02/2002, you were posted asan instructor to four zero three
helicopter operational trainingsquadron in Gaugetown, New
Brunswick. At that time, youwere hoping to go SAR.
How did you feel about thischange in direction, and what
strategies did you use to makethe best of it?
Jeannot (24:46):
Yeah. Well, that that's a funny story because at that
time, I really didn't wanna gothere. And I was I was actually
leaving Quebec as well, and Ieven I even pondered the idea of
releasing and flying for theQuebec police. But I ended up
going to 403 telling my wifewe're going to try it out. When
I arrived, there was a MajorGary Fleming.
And I remember him telling me,Hey, Jano, are you happy you're
(25:08):
here? And I told him, No, Idon't want to work with the
army. I'll do one year here andI want to go search and rescue.
And funny enough, think as we gothrough this interview, I ended
up spending the rest of mycareer very close to the army.
So the lesson I learned there isreally go in with an open mind
because I actually fell in lovewith tech aviation and with
working closely to the army.
Bryan (25:28):
Yeah. And that's something we say here all the
time that you have to keep anopen mind because eventually
what's gonna make the differencebetween a great posting or a
posting that you can't stand isgonna be your attitude and how
you go into it.
Jeannot (25:41):
Absolutely. I went in there with an open mind and and
I think challenges becomeopportunities. And I also
learned at four zero three, likethe power of leadership. My
commanding officer at the timewas Lieutenant Colonel Alain
Parin that became LieutenantGeneral Alain Parin. He took me
aside at one point and kind oftold me he felt I had potential.
Basically, made me feel like Iwas bringing value to the unit.
(26:03):
He gave me purpose And, yeah,that was a pretty determining
moment, I think, in my career.So I also learned that, you
know, the power of the positiveeffect a good leader can have.
Bryan (26:14):
Yeah. And that mentorship that you get from some people is
just so key. The mentors thatcome into your life through your
time in the air force, I thinkespecially as a pilot where we
have less formalized leadershiptraining, I think the mentorship
that we receive is absolutelythe the defining factor in kind
of what type of leader youbecome.
Jeannot (26:33):
Yes. And and and for, you know, and and mentors and
leaders, like, there's no rankand trade to that. Because to
me, you know, I could name somementors and leaders that were
higher ranking, but there's somany mentors and leaders that
were, were NCOs, technicians,logisticians, maintainers.
Absolutely. People I work withthat I learned a tremendous
(26:55):
amount from.
And I would put a pitch in herefor senior NCOs because again,
as officers, as young officersin your career, I don't know if
I can put in words theimportance and the appreciation
I have for our senior NCOs asmentors, as advisors, in the
(27:15):
exceptional role they play to toto make us better leaders and
better pilots.
Bryan (27:20):
I couldn't agree more with that statement. I can think
back to so many NCOs thatmentored me, whether it was in
technical aspects of theaircraft in on the Aurora,
whether it was tactics and whywe do what we do. And a lot of
it was also in leadership. Wehad a lot of guys who were
(27:42):
either just great leaders or hadbeen ex combat arms and had
learned a ton about leadershipthere because leadership is
something that our combat armsdo so well. I completely agree
with that.
Jeannot (27:52):
They teach us certain aspects again of discipline of
doing the job. Like for us intech aviation, you show up at a
unit and you will have peopleagain that were combat arms
before that become air forcetechnicians. They know how it
works in the field. They'llteach you how to build your rock
sack. They'll teach you the keythings you need, the key skills
you need to survive when you'redeployed because some of them
(28:13):
will have multiple deployments.
Again, like you get to knowpeople, everybody has a story
and kind of take off the ranks,take off the positions, get to
know people, get to appreciatethem and respect them for their
knowledge and who they are.
Bryan (28:27):
Oh, for sure. It's funny you say that. Definitely, our ex
combat arms guys were the oneswho made it so that all of us
pilots had, like, a frag vestand tack vest and all that stuff
that was actually well puttogether and ready to go in case
actually needed them. Like, ifit hadn't have been for those
guys, we would have been a mess.
Jeannot (28:45):
Absolutely. My son's a young lieutenant right now,
armored lieutenant, and that'swhat I told him. I said, you you
find the smart, the good, theexperienced NCOs around the
around you and you build arelationship with them. You
respect them, you listen, andyou learn. Right?
Bryan (29:00):
For sure. So what would
you say was the most fun part of instructing at four zero
three Squadron?
Jeannot (29:05):
To me, it's quite simple. It was just becoming a
better pilot. You know, when youfly in unit and I did some
operational missions and badweather in four thirty nine, you
think you're a good pilot, butwhen you have to become an
instructor and teach it toothers, I think you solidify
your foundations. Through thoseyears, got, like I said, to be
an instructor pilot, a standardspilot, instrument check pilot,
(29:27):
advanced NVG. When I left thatunit, I really felt I was a
competent pilot.
Bryan (29:33):
So just that ability to kind of hone your skills and
really hone your craft andbecome, I'll say I'll say a
master almost of of gettingthese things nailed to, like, a
really tight precision.
Jeannot (29:45):
Yeah. Yes. And basically understanding why
you're doing all all thesethings. Right? Because when I
showed up at four thirty nine,people are very experienced
pilots are just doing things.
But sometimes when you become aninstructor, you have to go back
and you have to read how theaircraft works, how all the
systems work. I was also amaintenance test pilot. So
there's so much aspects to learnworking in the simulator on
(30:08):
emergencies. So there's so manyfacets to flying that even, you
know, I kept learning my wholecareer, but I would say after a
few years at a school like that,you feel more confident, in your
knowledge and then the solidityof your, your foundation.
Bryan (30:22):
And you had a pretty good opportunity to solidify that
because you have over 3,000flying hours, which is pretty
respectable for someone whoclimbed the ranks as well as for
someone who flew helicopters.That's a lot of flying. You also
kept qualified all the way up toand including your time as a
wing commander. Why did you feelit was important to stay
qualified as a pilot?
Jeannot (30:43):
Well, first of all, following previous leaders, I
mean, I get back to GeneralParag that had done the same
thing. But to me, was aboutleading by example, first of
all. Second of all is connectingwith the people I lead. You have
to kind of put yourself in theirshoes and kind of build that
connection to show them you'rethe wing commander but you're
(31:04):
also a pilot. Finally, I wouldsay understand their reality and
the evolution, right?
Because by the time you're awing commander, you're probably
fifteen or twenty years fromwhen you started flying.
Technology evolves, theenvironment evolves, people
evolve. So I think it's reallyimportant so you can actually
(31:24):
understand their reality andthen make your decisions are
informed. And maybe finally,it's just to have fun too.
Because I mean, as a wingcommander, every time I was in
the air was probably myquietest, calmest and and and
just best time ever.
Bryan (31:38):
A time to kind of get away and just focus back on the
basics.
Jeannot (31:41):
I'd have to do it. I'd often visit units and I'd fly at
night or I'd fly early in themorning because I, you know, my
day was still filled but stillit was just the it just felt
relaxing and fulfilling, Iguess, to be in the air and and
yeah, doing the job you you youlove so much.
Bryan (31:56):
I believe that for sure. What is the biggest lesson
you've learned from spending somuch time in the air?
Jeannot (32:03):
There's quite a few, but the first one, I'll just say
the the power of psychologicalsafety and trust because for me
helicopters it's a crewenvironment and everybody there
whether it's your co pilot, yourflight engineer, your door
gunner, yeah you have so much tolearn from them. Second part, I
(32:23):
call them the five P's but I'llsay proper preparation prevents
poor performance. As a pilot,you really learn that you need
to be prepared because everytime you kind of cut corners or
you try to do things quick, youwill scare yourself and again
the consequences can be quitedire so the importance of being
well prepared and I would saythe importance of trusting and
(32:43):
enabling young people. As apilot I learned that because as
you get older you tend to wannamake sure they're good enough.
But no, like, kind of reinforcedto me trust young people because
our young people are amazing.
And when you trust them, like,they take their job very
seriously and they'll doexceptionally well.
Bryan (33:00):
Yeah. I think when you do that, you empower people and you
encourage them to perform attheir best.
Jeannot (33:05):
Yep.
Bryan (33:07):
So during all this flying, you met your wife. How
did you meet?
Jeannot (33:11):
My wife was my high school sweetheart. So I think I
met my wife and she was in gradesix. I think I was probably in
second grade 10 so we went out alittle bit together at that time
and then eventually I joined themilitary college and we always
stayed in touch. When I ended upin Baggerville in 1998 she
called me up one night andbasically said she had moved
(33:31):
back to her parents and wassingle. So we started dating at
that time and we've kinda beentogether ever since.
Bryan (33:38):
Oh, that's awesome. How did you manage to maintain a
successful marriage with such anactive flying career and
eventually many commandpositions?
Jeannot (33:46):
I mean, I I just I don't know. I I I feel lucky,
but I think that the trick isreally, like, figuring out what
works for us, figuring out ourown system. Me and my wife
throughout this, you know, wemoved probably over 10 times and
we kind of agreed. She decidedto probably put aside the idea
(34:08):
of working to kind of follow andfocus on the family. Kind of
figuring out what worked for uswas probably the key.
Obviously, compromise andcommunicate. You have to do
that. And I would say probablyquality over quantity. Quality
of time with family overquantity because the quantity
won't be there at times. You gotto focus on the quality and
(34:31):
probably never take it forgranted.
Actions speak more than words sopromising to your spouse a bunch
of things is mildly entertainingbut your actions are key to make
sure that you keep the familyfirst and you go through some of
the challenges you're going facein that career.
Bryan (34:48):
For sure. And with your spouse and with your kids too,
it's so easy to say like, Oh,you know, I'm busy now but we'll
do that later. And then it feelslike, okay, I've pushed that
down the road a bit and I'll getto it. And then it's really easy
to keep doing that. So like yousaid, actions speak louder than
words and when you say you'regonna do something, you do it.
Jeannot (35:07):
Exactly. Life is about priorities, right? So at one
point have to decide what yourpriorities are, but you have to
act according to those or elseagain or else is just words.
Bryan (35:20):
For sure. So I mentioned kids. When were your kids born
during all this?
Jeannot (35:24):
Yeah. So my my son was born in in February in
Bagotville while I was at fourthree nine Squadron. And then
when we moved to to Gaugetown,my daughter was born there in
02/2003. So Bagotville andGaugetown.
Bryan (35:37):
Okay. And did you take parental leave?
Jeannot (35:39):
Yeah. I did. I did on both occasions. I took, I think
six to eight weeks, but I thinkit's about six weeks. But to me,
in both instances, basically, Ispoke to the chain of command.
When I was four or three, mydaughter was born in September
and I wanted to take leave atthe time and remember talking to
the CEO that told me, Why don'tyou take it next summer? Because
I planning to be course directorand he says, It'll be a lot
(36:03):
better if you take it in thesummer than in the fall.
Basically, that's what I did. Soagain, spoke with my wife, in
the fall, was course directorfor a course until the spring.
And then the following summer,managed to take six weeks.
And funny, funny anecdote, wewent on a camping trip in a pop
up trailer fourteen days movedseven times with an eight month
(36:25):
old and a two and a half
Bryan (36:26):
year old and had my
Jeannot (36:28):
dad and brother-in-law betting I wouldn't make it but I
but I did.
Bryan (36:31):
And how did that go moving that many times with the
young kids?
Jeannot (36:35):
Well again, when you're young, you think you're quite
ambitious with your plans. So somaybe if I do it again, I
probably limit it to three orfour moves in in fourteen days.
But For sure. Still greatmemories nonetheless.
Bryan (36:49):
So how did having kids change your career?
Jeannot (36:51):
You spoke to it earlier, right? That that
tension between professional andpersonal. So I think it just
makes that surface more right.Like, you know, your your
profession, your job isimportant, but obviously your
family is incredibly importantas well. So I think to me was
define what success means foryou.
To me, was obviously being closeto my family and then deciding
(37:16):
what I'm going to give theinstitution in terms of
commitment and then kind of letyou let that take you wherever
it takes you.
Bryan (37:26):
So basically, setting up your priorities and sticking to
them and then sort of striking abalance with that as a
guideline?
Jeannot (37:33):
Yeah. Well, that's that's what worked for me
because I said in the end, Idon't wanna be chasing something
because if I do that, I thinkI'll be prioritizing the wrong
things. And to me, if I lookback at my career again, we
moved we moved over 10 times. Myson was at his seventh school by
by grade 10. Right?
Bryan (37:52):
That's tough.
Jeannot (37:53):
But we tried to make an opportunity every time we moved
somewhere, we made a consciouseffort to do something fun,
know, to make it fun for thekids and say, hey, this is a new
place. There's a lot of coolthings to do. And again, that's
how we got through it. But it'schallenging. Moving is
challenging especially as thekids get into high school.
(38:13):
It can be quite tough. Iobviously deployed to
Afghanistan and then I was inthirteen months deployed as well
on Op Proteus. COVID, only cameback for two weeks. Like, you
know, there's challengingperiods in there for sure.
Bryan (38:26):
For sure. So we've kind
of talked about your method for maintaining a balance
between your career and familylife. Do you think it's possible
for both of those things to bean important priority in life at
the same time?
Jeannot (38:37):
Yes, I do. I absolutely do. As I said, I think you need
to instead of being focused onthe goal, I think I would focus
on setting the conditions orunderstanding what you're
willing to give. And to meagain, evolved from being a
(38:58):
young captain but to workingnine hours a day to ten to maybe
more now and deciding what I'mgoing to give on weekends or
when I'm going to do my mastersand those kinds of things and
kind of giving what you'rewilling to give, protecting the
family and just letting thatbring you wherever that brings
you. I think if you startchasing the carrots too much,
(39:19):
you run the risk, guess ofhaving some unintended
consequences.
Bryan (39:23):
Yeah, for sure. You have to kind of set your goals, set
your limits and then hopefullyyou can stick to those.
Jeannot (39:29):
Absolutely.
Bryan (39:30):
Okay. So we've talked a little bit about your early
flying life. We've talked a bitabout your family life. I'd like
to move on now and talk aboutyour time in Afghanistan. You
deployed as the operationsofficer and deputy commanding
officer for the Canadianhelicopter forces in Afghanistan
or CHFA in 02/2009.
What were the conditions like atthe time in Afghanistan?
Jeannot (39:52):
Well, I deployed from April to November 2009. So it
was the fighting season. I thinkit was quite a hard period where
we lost quite a few Canadiansand allies. I mean, the
conditions working at CHFA forme as the ops and DCO, I would
say we're probably workingeighteen hours a day, seven days
a week for the whole time,probably down to twelve to
(40:15):
fourteen the last couple monthsbecause you get more efficient
your job. But there were alsoquite a few periods of forty two
hours in a row because you comein the morning, you work your
day, there's a night aerosol soyou're up all night and then you
have to work the whole next dayand then finally you get some
sleep.
So Wow. But yeah, probably very,very, very challenging, very
(40:40):
challenging and and verychallenging summer.
Bryan (40:43):
That sounds exhausting. And correct me if I'm wrong,
02/2009 was really, I think thepeak of some of the fighting
that happened in Afghanistan. AmI right with that?
Jeannot (40:53):
Well, yeah, I think I think it was. I think every
every deployment is unique andbrings its own challenges. But
yeah, definitely that summer Ithink was one of the high marks
in terms of fighting. So we'reextremely busy with a lot of
quite complex night operations,night aerosols to try to clear
some pretty some pretty strongareas.
Bryan (41:14):
So what exactly was CHFA's role in Afghanistan?
Jeannot (41:18):
So when we arrived there, there's quite a few
roles, but one of them wasconvoy overwatch. So as convoys
were getting hit on the roadsquite a bit, so we would
basically do overwatch. So flyover the convoys and make sure
we're clearing all around them.That was, while not the most
popular job, quite importantbecause when helicopters were
over convoys, they would not gethit. Moving people around with
(41:40):
the Chinooks, we moved likethousands and thousands of
people around.
So keeping Canadians and alliesoff the roads, responded to a
lot of emergency air missionrequests. So last minute
requests were small, we're agileas Canadians. So we did that
exceptionally well. And as Italked about aerosols and I can
expand on those because I thinkthose were probably some of the
(42:00):
most challenging, but alsoprofessionally rewarding
operations I personally wasinvolved in in my career.
Bryan (42:08):
Yeah, for sure. Tell us about what an aerosol is and how
that goes.
Jeannot (42:12):
So major aerosols were normally we would insert upwards
of 300 or 400 people at night togo clear a village over a four
or five day period. So normallywe would have UAVs doing a soak,
we called it. So looking at thepattern of life for about three
or four days prior, we wouldinsert recce the night before to
(42:32):
have eyes on and the night ofwe'd often be working with
American Kiowa warriors that dothe picketing of the landing
zone. And then we would come innormally for Chinooks and for
Griffins, sometimes allCanadian, often a mix of
Canadian and UK in threedifferent waves in the middle of
the night inserting our troopsthere. Then for the following
(42:54):
four or five days, we wouldresupply them every day and then
extract them at the end.
Throughout those operations, hadforward armed refueling points.
We'd obviously to refuel atnight with all those aircraft.
So just exceptionallychallenging but rewarding
operations.
Bryan (43:12):
Yeah, it sounds like something that would be hugely
complex to manage.
Jeannot (43:16):
Yes, hugely complex but again, we train exceptional
pilots and aviators andsoldiers. Right? So a lot of
planning went into it. Some verydetailed briefs and an extremely
high level of professionalism.
Bryan (43:33):
Would that be the kind of thing that would be covered
during pre deployment training?Would you folks do practice runs
of these like back in Canadabefore you left?
Jeannot (43:42):
You know, it's quite a few years back, but I remember
arriving at four thirty Squadronas the new operations officer
there and going through 11different exercises in four
months getting ready. And atfirst, I thought it was too
much, but I think it wasnecessary. When we arrived
there, while it wasintimidating, we were ready. So
(44:03):
our training system isexceptionally good and when
people and when we get in thoseenvironments, we are ready.
Don't get me wrong.
Like the, you know, you'renervous the few first few weeks
and you have to learn quicklyand adapt but we are ready.
Bryan (44:16):
Yeah. Did you do any flying while you were there?
Jeannot (44:19):
Yeah. It was I got to fly, I think, a hundred and
fifty hours in the seven months.So as the operations officer,
not as much as others, but yes,I got to fly and participate in
a mix of all the all thedifferent all the different
operations.
Bryan (44:33):
I bet that helped too as far as, like, if you were only
ever in headquarters kind ofremoved from everything, you
wouldn't have the sameperspective as if you were out
on a few missions and kind ofseeing what it's like on the
ground.
Jeannot (44:46):
Oh, absolutely. The conditions there were so
challenging, especially atnight. So flying there is really
important to get a sense of whatpeople are living every day. And
I always laugh because I alwaysthink of the example when you're
working in ops we're asking allthe pilots to call wheels up,
wheels down because we need toknow where they're at. They
forget and they always complainbecause they think it's a waste
(45:06):
of time.
Then normally you bring them towork in ops for a week and when
they see their peers not makingthe calls and they can't answer
the questions and you send themback flying and they become
really good at it. So we allbenefit from working in ops,
also obviously flying and makingsure we all understand what each
other do within a unit.
Bryan (45:26):
Yeah. That kind of goes back to what we were saying
before about that crosspollination of experience and
and just getting differentperspectives and mixing those in
so you have a stronger overallpicture. What would you say was
the most significant challengesand rewards of this deployment?
Jeannot (45:41):
To me, kind of the most tough toughest flying conditions
of my career with the sand andat night, like, the darkest
environment I've ever flown in.Leadership challenges and not in
a negative fashion. Mean, you'reon seven days a week pretty
well, like sixteen hours a day,we'll say, but it's almost
(46:01):
twenty fourseven. And rewardingto me supporting Canadian and
allied brothers and sisters inarms. We really wanted to be
there, share the risk, share thehardship and reduce their risk
by taking on a little bitourselves.
I think that's when I talk aboutmobility, convoy, escort or air
(46:22):
assaults, that was our way, Ithink, to share some of that
risk and really feel that we'rewe're really helping helping
them out.
Bryan (46:29):
Mhmm. And like you said, it's huge to keep Canadians and
our allies off the roads as muchas possible in Afghanistan
because I I believe most of ourcasualties were roadside bombs.
Jeannot (46:39):
Most of them were, but I would say for us, when I was
there on nine on sixth July twothousand and nine, we had a we
had a crash and we lost I I losttwo of my colleagues there,
Martin Joannette and Pat Odez.Learn some real lessons there
again about the seriousness ofwhat we do. So when I talk about
the five P's and being preparedand being disciplined and taking
(47:02):
your job, your craft seriously,it comes to reality because
things can happen very quick.And in that case, obviously, two
crew members survived but twopassed away. So that really
brought to life the concept ofunlimited liability.
And the other aspect thatsummer, had ramp ceremonies. I
(47:22):
think people are familiar at theend of the day when we lost some
of our members. I think we wereprobably at ramp ceremonies
four, five, six days a week fora period of time there.
Canadians, Americans, Britishallies. So, it kind of brought
the human cost of combat to lifein a real manner for me.
Bryan (47:44):
Did you find that going to those ramp ceremonies, losing
colleagues, did you find thattook a toll?
Jeannot (47:50):
Yeah, it absolutely takes a toll. But one of my
American colleagues followingthat deployment said, it's crazy
what becomes normal. So thefirst two weeks you're there,
you're nervous. And then I thinkit becomes normal and you become
numb to it or youcompartmentalize it because you
(48:10):
need to deliver on the mission.And then I think when you get to
the end and there's only twoweeks left, then you start
thinking about it again becauseyou're like, I only have two
weeks to go when I, you know, Ilike I wanna finish strong and
and and be able to go home.
Bryan (48:25):
Yeah. For sure. What were
the key lessons you learned from your deployment to
Afghanistan and how did thoselessons influence your later
roles and responsibilities?
Jeannot (48:36):
Well, to me, I mean, it brought teamwork and and I say
psychological safety, but makingsure there's trust within a team
and cohesion to a whole newwhole new level. To me, and this
drove my philosophy, I guess foryears to come, you have to
master the fundamentals, whetheryou're a pilot, a maintainer,
whatever trade, you have tomaster the fundamentals. Have to
(48:57):
do that for yourself and to makethe people around you on your
left and on your right safe. Youhave to learn through experience
like PowerPoint and discussionswill only take you so far.
Whenever you train, you got tofind a way to learn through
experience.
And then the importance ofdiscipline and cohesion, All
facets of discipline and to meobviously cohesion because the
(49:19):
difference between a good and agreat team is cohesion in my
world. And while good enough,good is good enough in
bureaucracy when you're incombat, good is sometimes not
good enough and the price youpay for that is quite high. The
last one is French to me butit's faire sans douziam and to
me, you know, I spend time withthe coach of Universite Laval
(49:41):
Rougeteau football and for them,there's 12 players on the field.
And in simple terms, it meansthe 12 have a clear role and
have to be accountable to themfor the team to succeed. And
those are probably some of thekey lessons I learned there.
And I have to get back to seniorNCOs because I learned that
earlier in my career, but thatbecame so true there. My ops
(50:04):
weren't there. Again, I justcan't say enough about the
incredible importance of of ofNCOs in making sure we have the
aircraft on the line, the opscenter is running, just every
facet of it.
Bryan (50:17):
Well, I think that's something that is true if you
read through any kind ofmilitary history that especially
Western militaries rely on astrong core of seasoned,
experienced NCOs, and they'rekind of the people who train the
junior NCMs. They're the peoplewho, like we talked about, give
us junior officers, you know,help us point us in the right
(50:39):
direction and keep us out oftrouble. They're the ones who
keep the military going almost.
Jeannot (50:44):
I've said it many times in my career for people that
know me, have the best. We havethe best non commissioned
officers. We have the best NCMsin the world. We do in Canada,
and we should be proud of that.And we should continue
developing them and evolving,you know, evolving because the
world evolves.
But we have the best in theworld, and and we should be
proud of that.
Bryan (51:04):
Yeah, for sure. So we've talked a lot about your family.
How did your family deal withyou deploying to Afghanistan?
Jeannot (51:11):
I think they were stoic about it but nervous but I I was
privileged. I think I hadtremendous support from my
parents. At the time my daughterwas six, my son was nine. So
when I left, my son realizedwhat was going on and when I
called, he didn't want to talkto me, it was too hard. That was
hard on me.
My daughter didn't realize whatwas going on when I left but
then when I came for HLTA andleft again, then she understood
(51:33):
what was going on. That was abit of the family dynamic and I
would say the last one comingback was an adjustment after
being high adrenaline, high pacefor seven months, coming back
and adjusting to a young familywhere you say we're going leave
at nine and they're not ready togo. I had to work on myself to
(51:56):
kind of get back to normal.
Bryan (51:57):
Did you find when you came back that your family had
kind of adjusted to beingwithout you and now there had to
be an adjustment period whereyou had to ease back into their
routine?
Jeannot (52:08):
Yes, there was for sure. But I think again, feel so
privileged. Like, I mean, mywife was so amazing and the
kids. So there was that period,but yeah, it was clearly on me
not to invade their space, butit was more me that was I went
out of I was out of balance.Right.
I was like too focused.Everything had to click again.
Was a bit of a I was a bit of atime freak. Everything needed to
(52:29):
happen Mhmm. When I thought itshould happen.
Everything was planned out andthen so I needed to kind of step
back from that.
Bryan (52:35):
But that makes sense. Right? Like, you had just spent
seven months in Afghanistanwhere that kind of stuff was
life and death. Like, it's notlike this was coming out of
nowhere and you were just highstrung. Like, this was stuff
that for you for the last sevenmonths, the penalty for not
getting this stuff right couldbe somebody getting killed.
So it makes sense that it takessome time to adjust.
Jeannot (52:54):
Yeah. And the other piece is that people can't and
should not be able to understandwhat you live there. When you
come back again, if you talk toyour military peers, you can
understand but if you're tryinglike you know family is curious,
friends are curious, they wantto know but you realize, you
know, you you talk to them, butyou realize that they don't
truly understand and they can't.And watching the news will give
(53:16):
you, you know, some pieces ofthe story, but it's not always a
% accurate.
Bryan (53:21):
That's a privilege, though, that Canadians by and
large can't understand what it'slike to be in a combat zone or
can't understand what it meansthat, oh, if you make a mistake,
somebody could die. Like, that'sa good thing that most people
can't understand what that'slike.
Jeannot (53:37):
We live in the best country in the world. I mean,
we're we're yeah. We're safe. Wehave resources. We have great
people.
We're educated. So when yes. Weneed to protect that. And that's
what our military is there for.
Bryan (53:51):
Yeah. For sure. I agree completely. So we talked a bit
about how your family handledyour deployment. What supports
were available at that timecompared to now for people who
deployed?
Jeannot (54:03):
Well, I mean, we had the family resource center,
guess is what I have in mindwhen I say that but obviously I
was in Valkyatsee, the base Ithink was good. The family
resource center was good. Theunit at the time, obviously we
were deployed quite a bit duringthat period so members of the
unit would always be availablefor the family. There were
phones in Afghanistan so I couldcall home probably ten or
(54:23):
fifteen minutes in the evening.It wasn't always perfect.
There was no FaceTime. You canreally see each other. So I
think we have more support todaythan we've ever had and we
should. It's necessary. It'simportant.
But I think there's a lot moresupport today. We've learned a
lot from those years and I'dlike to think we're a lot better
at making sure our families aresupported because those are
(54:43):
challenging periods, verychallenging periods for
families.
Bryan (54:46):
You mentioned phones. How much access did you have in
terms of being able to callhome?
Jeannot (54:51):
It was a trailer with, I don't know, eight or 10 phones
in there, but because of myworking hours, I never had a
problem. I think I'd get back tomy room at ten or eleven at
night. So, you know, it was midafternoon back home. So I'd call
for ten or fifteen minutes andgo. But but I think we were
good.
Like we had access. We couldcall home. That wasn't an issue.
Bryan (55:09):
Not too bad. So not one of those situations where like
30 people are sharing one satphone or something like that?
Jeannot (55:14):
No. I think that was a few years before me, but no. I
think we were by that time, Iwas mainly in Kandahar. But I
you know, I'm sure I havecolleagues when when the army
was in platoon houses or forwardoperating bases, I'm sure they
didn't have the same luxury wehad on Kandahar.
Bryan (55:29):
Yeah. For sure. I know that was something that really
surprised us when we went toKuwait for OpImpact. We didn't
know what to expect in terms ofbeing able to call home, but we
had access to Wi Fi. There wasfree phones to use.
It was really good. Like, wewere surprised by how easy it
was to stay in touch with ourour loved ones at home.
Jeannot (55:47):
Yeah. It's evolved. I mean, when I when I deployed on
Op Produce for thirteen months,then with FaceTime, at least it
makes a huge difference when youcan see the person. Back when
you come back, like afterAfghanistan coming back on HLTA
was weird. Like you haven't seeneach other physically in three
or four months or even longer.
But now because of the thetechnology we have, I think it
(56:07):
makes it better.
Bryan (56:08):
Yeah, for sure. Okay, Janelle, that's gonna wrap up
part one of our chat on yourcareer. I wanna thank you so
much for your time today and I'mreally looking forward to
getting together with you again.Thanks so much for your time
today and we'll talk to you forthe next one.
Jeannot (56:21):
Thanks, Brian. Thanks for listening.
Bryan (56:23):
Alright. That wraps up part one of our chat with
lieutenant general, GeneralBoucher, chief of staff, chief
professional conduct and cultureon his early career, including
his time in Afghanistan. For ournext episode, we will talk about
his early command roles, histime as commander of task force
Jerusalem in support of opProteus in the West Bank, as
well as his work developing ourNorth strong and free. Do you
(56:45):
have any questions or commentsabout anything you've heard in
this show? Would you or someoneyou know make a great guest, or
do you have a great idea for ashow?
You can reach out to us at thepilotprojectpodcast@Gmail.com or
on all social media at at podpilot project. And be sure to
check out that social media forlots of great videos of our RCAF
aircraft. As always, we'd liketo thank you for tuning in and
(57:06):
ask for your help with the bigthree. That's like and follow us
on social media, share with yourfriends, and follow and rate us
five stars wherever you get yourpodcasts. That's all for now.
Thanks for listening. Keep theblue side up. See you.
Intro/Outro (57:20):
Engineer, shut down all four. Shutting down all four
engines.
This podcast is presented by Skies Magazine. If
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Bryan (00:28):
Hey, everybody. It's your host, Brian Morrison here with
our standard RCAF senior officerpre episode commentary. We live
in a twenty four hour newscycle, and comments can be very
quickly overtaken by events. Soto put things in perspective,
this interview was recorded inearly January.
Intro/Outro (00:46):
Fuel and ignition switches on RPM switches. Set TV
switches. Normal doors andhatches.
Jeannot (00:52):
Closed lay
Intro/Outro (00:53):
down. Strobe light On. Research check-in. Complete
clear left. Engineer.
Start number two. Turning two.Wing three one zero ten. Pilot
project broadcast. Cleartakeoff.
Runway three one left.
Bryan (01:14):
Alright. We're ready for departure here at the pilot
project podcast, the best sourcefor stories and advice from RCAF
and Mission Aviation Pilotsbrought to you by Sky's
Magazine. I'm your host, BrianMorrison. With me today is the
current chief of staff, chiefprofessional conduct and
culture, major general, GenoBoucher. Geno, welcome to the
show and thanks so much forbeing here.
Jeannot (01:34):
Thanks, Brian. I look forward to this.
Bryan (01:36):
Yeah. I've been looking forward to it as well. So before
we start, let's go over Geno'sbio. Major general Geno Boucher
joined the Canadian Armed Forcesin 1992. He was at College
Military Royal de Saint Jeanfrom 1992 to '95.
When it was closed, he moved tothe Royal Military College of
Canada, RMC Kingston, where hegraduated in 1997 and obtained
(01:58):
his pilot wings one year later.His postings include four three
nine combat support squadron inBagotville, Four Zero Three
Helicopter Operational TrainingSquadron in Gaketown, Analyst
within the vice chief of defensestaff organization, four thirty
tactical helicopter squadronwhere he deployed as operations
officer and deputy commandingofficer for Canadian helicopter
force Afghanistan or CHFA inAfghanistan in 02/2009, faculty
(02:23):
at the USAF Air Command andStaff College, executive
assistant to the commander ofthe RCAF, chief of staff of
first Canadian division, anddirector general within the
chief of force development andchief professional conduct and
culture. His commandappointments include commander
of four three zero tacticalhelicopter squadron in 02/2015,
(02:43):
commander of one wing, twothousand sixteen to eighteen,
interim commander of firstCanadian division, two thousand
eighteen to two thousand twenty,and commander of task force
Jerusalem for Op Proteus, twothousand twenty to 02/2021. In
January 2023, he was promoted tohis current rank. He is
currently the chief of staff,chief professional conduct and
culture.
Major general Boucher hasaccumulated over 3,000 flying
(03:06):
hours in his career. He has abachelor's degree in politics
and economics and a master's inwarfare studies from RMC
Kingston, a master's inoperational art and science from
United States Air Force AirUniversity, and is a graduate of
the Air War College distancelearning program. He enjoys all
sports, has been happily marriedfor over twenty years, and is
the proud father of two amazingchildren. So, Juno, let's talk a
(03:29):
bit about your sportsbackground. You mentioned you
enjoy all sports, especiallyhockey.
Can you tell us more about yourhockey career in CMR and RMC and
how these experiences shapedyou?
Jeannot (03:38):
I wouldn't call it a hockey career, but yeah, did
have the privilege of playing acollege hockey in CMR and
university college in RMC. Iwould say the experience
basically forged my character. Ilearned so much about teamwork,
about the importance of having asystem that's tailored, I guess,
to the strength and weakness ofeach of the members of the team
(04:01):
and understanding your rolewithin that system and within
that team and making sure you'redisciplined and accountable in
executing that role. I also hadthe privilege of having an
exceptional coach at RMC JacquesTremblay which was the
university coach of the year in1996 I believe and he used to
call the dressing room theschool of life. So not only did
(04:23):
we play hockey but we alsolearned a lot of life skills
throughout that time.
I learned a lot by playingagainst people that were a lot
better than me. So RMC being avery small school playing in the
highly competitive universityassociation, you're always
playing with better people. So Icame to understand that the best
(04:44):
we can do is just use all theskills we have, work as hard as
we can and just be the best teamwe can. I also learned the
importance of using all yourplayers. You have four lines if
you're going to get through aseason and be competitive the
whole time.
You need everyone's contributionand everybody needs to be a
(05:05):
leader within that team.
Bryan (05:07):
For sure. Did you find that a lot of this translated
over to your military life aswell?
Jeannot (05:12):
Yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, basically all of it to
me, I see life through hockey.So, so, so discipline,
discipline, and basicallycompeting for something greater
than yourself. Like I just lovethe fact of being part of the
team. Then when you're in theCanadian Armed Forces as a pilot
or whatever trade you're in,know, one of the, you're there
(05:34):
to serve your country.
So therefore your purpose everyday is to serve something that's
a lot bigger than yourself.
Bryan (05:39):
For sure. So we've talked
about your love for sports. What inspired your love
for aviation?
Jeannot (05:44):
That's a funny story. I was 16 years old in high school
and quite honestly, we couldhave a day off of school if we
went to visit CMR St. Jean. Ibasically went to visit the
school that day and my parentswere not very rich at the time.
There were four children andthroughout the day I realized I
could study for free and when Ivisited the hockey rink, I
(06:07):
realized I could play hockey forfree.
I could have my gear and play ata very competitive level. My mom
always laughed and said, when Icame back that evening, I just
said, that's where I'm going.And that's how I decided to, to
join the military and aviation.So I'd actually never flown in
my life and and really didn'tknow that much about aviation.
Bryan (06:27):
That's too funny. Actually, you're not the first
pilot I've spoken to before, noton this show, but friends of
mine who joined the military.Like, a big motivator was, wow.
I could play sports like a lotof the time here and get paid to
do it.
Jeannot (06:42):
Yeah. I mean, that was the main one. And and during
that visit, like I met peopleand maybe unconsciously I
realized like, wow, liketeamwork is a huge part of this
institution. Leadership is ahuge part of this institution.
And, you know, identity wise,like I could identify with the
people that were there.
And as I said earlier, like Ifelt I would be part of
(07:03):
something that's bigger thanmyself. I think deep down, I've
always wanted to serve. I likebefore that visit, I wanted to
be a teacher and I'm stillpassionate about teaching, which
to me has translated intocoaching. So I think without
knowing it was a prettyimportant day in my life.
Bryan (07:23):
And it's interesting that you enjoy teaching as well
because that ends up being a bigpart of what you do as a pilot.
Jeannot (07:29):
Well, exactly. I mean, as a pilot, I think every day
you're learning, but you're alsoteaching like you're, you know,
I, in my pilot career, I wasobviously quite a bit, but I was
an instructor, I was astandards, I was an instrument
check pilot. I think in allthose roles, I realized I loved
and I wanted to do was have thechance to pass on some of that
(07:50):
knowledge and and learn fromjust the amazing people and
experienced people we haveacross our institution.
Bryan (07:56):
For sure. So you mentioned that you didn't really
know anything about aviation.What actually led you to choose
pilot as your trade?
Jeannot (08:03):
I went to the recruiting center and and and
sat down with whoever was thereat the time and thought that
flying airplanes seemed coolhonestly. And then my second
choice, funny enough, wasarmored. Driving tanks seemed
cool and then being an aerospaceengineer was my third choice. So
it was really attracted, Iguess, by what I thought the
(08:23):
experience would be of of offlying and being in the air.
Bryan (08:26):
So really like right place, right time that they
needed pilots at that time andthat that was just something you
thought, hey, I'll try that.
Jeannot (08:32):
Yeah. And and to be quite honest, I think I would
have joined regardless. I haveso many friends in the military
that joined to be pilots orother trades and things
sometimes don't work out andthey switch trades and they're
still in thirty years later.They're super leaders. They're
leading whether logisticinfantry.
I mean, yeah, exceptional peoplejoin, I think you just need to
(08:54):
be open minded and and and takeevery opportunity that's in
front of you.
Bryan (08:59):
%. There's a lot of really cool trades in the in the
RCAF and within the CanadianArmed Forces as a whole. So
let's talk a bit about yourflight training. You did phase
one on the CT one elevenSlingsby Firefly. Were you
intimidated or excited to startyour RCAF flight training?
Jeannot (09:14):
I think I was both intimidated and excited quite
honestly. As I said, my parentsactually paid a hundred $99 plus
tax. I think it was $115 to getme flying one hour because I'd
never flown in my life before Iwent there. When I got there,
was just an amazing summer. Ilearned so much and I was
reflecting, preparing for this.
(09:35):
And I still remember e fateauengine failure after takeoff and
zoom idle air start and then howyou can like pick a landing spot
and try to land if you lost yourengine. So it was a great
experience.
Bryan (09:48):
Yeah. I didn't do phase one, but honestly, sometimes I
wish I did. I hear so manypeople who had such a great time
on that course. Like, I know itcan be stressful. I know
especially in your time that itwas a selection course very much
so to see who can make it andwho can't.
But I hear so many people saylike that was one of the best
summers of their life.
Jeannot (10:06):
Yeah. And it's I think throughout pilot training, it's
amazing. It's exciting, but it'salso it's also humbling and hard
in the sense you're tested everyday. You need to learn at a
pretty fast pace and deliver. Soagain, I think the experience
was exceptional for everybodybut as you said, unfortunately,
think the failure rate was alittle bit higher.
(10:28):
For some people, probably theexperience wasn't as good.
Bryan (10:31):
But those of you folks who made it through went on to
phase two on the CT one fourteentutor. By that time, the tutor
was nearing replacement. Whatwas it like flying the tutor as
it neared the end of its life asa trainer?
Jeannot (10:42):
Simply amazing. But but to me as a young I think I was
probably 21. Like, as a young 21year old there, all I could
think is I'm flying the sameaircraft as the Snowbird. So
every day I'd get in there andI'd be so excited. I'm flying
the same plane as the Snowbirds.
There's probably a lot ofmaintenance issues and all that
going on. But to me at thattime, that was very transparent
to me. Like I get in theaircraft when it was available
(11:04):
and go flying. So it wasawesome.
Bryan (11:06):
Yeah. The Tutor is such a legendary aircraft. I really
think that like, I loved flyingthe Harvard two. It's such a
sweet plane, but the chance tofly the tutor to fly a little
jet is such a cool opportunity.
Jeannot (11:20):
Yeah. Like, I that was my experience, but, yeah, like,
I I feel pretty lucky I had thechance to do that.
Bryan (11:25):
What would you say was the most challenging part of
phase two?
Jeannot (11:28):
You know, I thought about that. There's a lot of
challenging parts. To me, Ithink was my I think it was my
solo flight after ten hours,about ten hours or six or seven
flights. But all I all Iremember is my girlfriend flying
down and with my instructorgoing on my pre solo and
landing. And in the debriefingroom, he's sitting with me and
he's like, you're just giving metwo options.
(11:49):
I either pass you. He says, Ieither fail you and I ruin your
weekend because it was on aFriday or I pass you and I'm
sitting nervously as you're inthe air for the next hour or so.
Then obviously he passed me andI went flying and it was
amazing. All that to say that,as I said, flying training is
(12:09):
demanding and you're learning.And even if the instructor tells
you you're ready at times, Ithink you don't feel you're
ready, but you are so.
Bryan (12:17):
Well, that first solo is pretty nerve wracking. It
doesn't like, I've had a fewfirst solos. Like, I did my
first solo on a glider back inair cadets and then I did my
solo on a powered aircraft. Butyour first solo in a military
aircraft that's high performanceand more complex, there's a lot
to that. It's prettyintimidating to go up by
yourself and and go do that.
Jeannot (12:38):
Yeah. And I think it, you know, there's such a
difference between being acopilot and bearing an aircraft
commander, as you said, goingsolo and being yourself, right?
Like when you're with aninstructor or with an aircraft
commander, trust them and if youmake a mistake, they're gonna be
there to help you recover you.When you're on your own, you're
on your own. I think it'snecessary.
(12:59):
Such a very important step forpersonal growth and confidence
but also obviously to kind ofdevelop your skills and realize
how serious it is. I mean,mistakes can have catastrophic
consequences if you're if youdon't if you're not cautious.
Bryan (13:12):
Yeah. A %. So you went back to RMC and graduated and
something that's pretty cool isyou got your wings just one year
after graduating from RMC andthat was on the Bell two zero
six. So was that typical at thetime? And do you think we'll
ever see timelines like thatagain in the RCAF?
Jeannot (13:29):
Yeah. We were quite privileged. I graduated in May.
I was in in Boozhaw right afterand I think it was May to about
March, so about eight or ninemonths. Then I got about a week
and a half and I was in Portageon the Bell two zero six and got
my wings in July.
So it took about fourteen monthsto get my wings. I went to my
unit after and in September Iwas doing my operational
(13:52):
training unit and was qualifiedby December. So yeah, obviously
that was amazing. I know it'sdifferent today. I'm not sure
we're going to get to thosetimelines.
I think we're trying to make itfaster but I would just tell
people take advantage of thetime in between. You know, when
everything is close, it seemsawesome. You wish you had time
between your courses. When youhave too much time, obviously
(14:16):
that's not better but there's alot of things you can do and
gain other types of experience,I guess, as you have some
periods of time between yourcourses.
Bryan (14:26):
Yeah, for sure. I guess there's pros and cons to when
it's very fast, like you canfeel rushed and you don't get a
break. If it's too slow,obviously, you feel like you're
waiting forever, and that's notideal either. And I guess you
said I had thought you went backto RMC, but you actually did
that all in one shot after RMC.
Jeannot (14:42):
Yeah. Well, I did the Slingsby. So that 's I think
that was summer ninety five. Wekinda did phase one, but then
phase two, three, and the OTUwas all after graduation in May.
Bryan (14:52):
Wow. And at that time, you got your wings on the Bell
two zero six. Is that correct?
Jeannot (14:57):
Yeah. I got my wing on the my wings on the bell two
zero six at the three CFFTS inPortage in July 1998.
Bryan (15:04):
What was your favorite part of phase three?
Jeannot (15:06):
Phase three was amazing to me. Like, I think I've, you
know, I I come from a small townand for whatever reason to me,
like, I was excited to to flylow to the ground, be able to
land anywhere. The two zero sixinstructors would tell you all
you need to do is keep the skidsclear from the ground. So we'd
fly so low. Think with some ofthe experienced pilots, I'd put
my legs in the air at times.
(15:28):
We were so close to the ground.And I'd also say for me, like
hands and feet wise, flying asmall helicopter, doing very
tight confined areas. It wasjust, it was great. I felt I
had, you know, I had selected orI had the opportunity to fly
what I wanted, which washelicopters.
Bryan (15:45):
Yeah. So helicopters were your first choice?
Jeannot (15:48):
Yeah. They were my first choice the whole time.
Obviously, in Moose Jaw, a lotof people have those
conversations. Are you goinghalos? Are you going fixed wing?
Are you going jets? And we allhave different personalities. I
think it's important to kind ofunderstand who we are, be true
to who we are and then go forwhat we want to do. We're all
different. Yeah,
Bryan (16:08):
I totally agree. There's different types of people for
each different platform anddifferent people have different
temperaments that are suited tovarious aircraft and usually
hopefully it works out that theyget on kind of where they belong
and that the instructors get toknow them and get to have an
idea of like where they shouldend up.
Jeannot (16:24):
Yeah. But some people change over their careers. Like
I I stayed in tech aviation mywhole career, but I have friends
that started in tech aviationand moved on to fixed wing or to
instructor and jets. But I alsoknow fixed wing are, know, Herc
pilots or C-seventeen pilotsthat came back to helicopters
after seeking people that cameto attack aviation. Again, like
(16:45):
diversity of perspectives ofexperience just makes us richer.
So I think, you know, onceagain, like it's a privilege to
fly to start with. So whateveryou get, like go with an open
mind and make the boast of it.But then at one point, if you
feel you want to be challengeddifferently, obviously go for it
and you'll be able to do it.
Bryan (17:04):
Yeah. For sure. In the Aurora community, it was, like,
it was pretty rare that we wouldhave an outsider to make their
way into the Aurora community.But when we did, it was always
interesting to hear theirdifferent perspectives just on
how they did businessdifferently, whether that was
tactically within the aircraftor just in general
organizationally. So I do agreethat it's good for the air force
to have people kind of crosspollinate in different
(17:24):
communities.
Jeannot (17:25):
I think we underestimate the importance and
the and the, you know, the powerof perspective, diversity of
experience. And in a worldthat's increasingly complex,
multifaceted, we need that. Weneed this culture where we're
able to see things from multipleperspectives. We tend to fear
the unknown or be cautious withthe unknown as well. So as you
(17:46):
said, every time somebody comesfrom a different community, we
kind of we have more questions.
But as you said, once we get toknow them, we're like, wow, they
bring a lot of value to the teambecause they're bringing in a
way of looking at things that wedidn't have.
Bryan (17:59):
For sure. And there can be a little bit of hesitancy at
first when you're like, well,that's not how we do things. But
sometimes the way they they'resuggesting can be even better.
Jeannot (18:07):
Absolutely.
Bryan (18:09):
So looking back on this early flight training, did you
have any especially momentsduring that time?
Jeannot (18:15):
Of course, I did. I think we all do. I mean, flight
training or a lot of thetraining is difficult. To me, I
think it was more I was prettygood on clear hood. I was good
on night flying.
So I was I was good on thosethings but I was more challenged
myself on formation andnavigation. If I think at phase
two on the tutor, the formationphase, even if I thought I was
pretty good, I think myinstructors proved to me I
(18:36):
wasn't as good as I thought onthat. And on helicopters while I
passed, but for the remainder ofmy career, navigation was
something that, you know, I Iwould admit some people were
much better at than I am. So weall have our strengths and
weaknesses, and I think it'simportant to be, yeah, be aware
of those.
Bryan (18:53):
Well, those are two super challenging super fun, but super
challenging phases of flighttraining too. Like, I really
enjoyed form and I reallyenjoyed low level nav, but
they're very difficult. It takessome some time to master those.
Jeannot (19:07):
I've always enjoyed those. And even in helicopters
that, like, we you can flypretty tight at night on on on
on Griffin helicopters. Butagain, like, if I'm if I'm
honest with myself, there's someof my peers were a lot better at
me than I was on that.
Bryan (19:22):
Yeah. That's fair. So your first posting after you got
your wings was to four threenine combat support squadron in
Bagotville, Quebec. Was thisyour first choice?
Jeannot (19:31):
No. It wasn't, actually. I was I wanted to go
search and rescue the wholetime, and I can't even really
tell you why but I wanted to gosearch and rescue. I wanted to
go to Trenton. I knew there wasa spot there.
I actually had a retest on mylast flight of the whole course.
So I finished second on thecourse so my options became
Gander for primary SAR inBaggettville which was combat
(19:52):
support. After being away for ayear and a half, being a couple
of years in Kingston and awayfor a year and a half, I decided
to be a bit closer to family andwent to Baggettville in Quebec
and kind of accepted thecompromise I'll say of being in
a unit that does secondarysearch and rescue.
Bryan (20:11):
Yeah. That's that's kind of nice though. Sometimes you
can make that compromise betweenlike professional and personal
goals because you can't alwaysonly favor just the career
aspect of things or you won'thave balance in your life.
Right?
Jeannot (20:24):
Well, to me, yeah, I think you're touching on it.
Like there there's pros and consto every option. And and and
again, you need to think thosethrough and then kind of be true
to yourself and and and have anopen mind. And to me, every
experience along the way was wasamazing because of that.
Bryan (20:40):
What would you say was your biggest challenge when you
arrived at four thirty nine? Anddid you feel prepared for the
new job?
Jeannot (20:46):
Well, to me, I think you fall in love with your first
unit. So that that there waschallenges, but I see them more
in terms of opportunities. Itwas a small unit, 50 or 60
people. There was eight pilots.I think the challenge was I was
the only lieutenant that showedup there.
So they were waiting for me. Soall the secondary duties you can
imagine were thrown at me. Butwhen I look back, I say that was
(21:08):
kind of an opportunity because Ilearned so many different
things. And being the only youngone with seven other experienced
pilots was such that I wasexposed to like different
styles, different leadership,and also had tons of
opportunities because, you know,those people had families. So
whether it was nights, weekendsor certain flights they wouldn't
(21:29):
want to do, I would jump oneverything.
So I think in the end, it wasactually a huge opportunity.
Bryan (21:34):
Yeah. That sounds like a pretty good go for, like, a
young new pilot. Can you tell usa little more about what the
squadron's role at the time was?
Jeannot (21:41):
The squadron's role, like, it was called combat
support squadron but basicallywe were doing search and rescue
missions was the main thing wedid. We actually operated with,
I forget the name, I think it'stwo thousand nine hundred and
five but we actually operated asper the primary search and
rescue manual. So that's what wedid most of the time and that's
what we trained for.
Bryan (22:03):
So you mentioned that four three nine works as combat
support but also performs a roleas secondary search and rescue
and in fact that most of whatyou did was search and rescue.
Can you tell us about anyinteresting SAR missions you
conducted?
Jeannot (22:15):
Yeah. Well, one comes to mind, which is a a, you know,
a pilot, I guess, an older anolder pilot that ended up in a
whiteout about 200 miles northon a Friday. And we only got the
call from his wife on theMonday. So Oh, wow. We did the
search and we found the airplaneon a small lake on the Monday.
And when we landed on that lake,we found that a grandfather in
(22:37):
his sixties had been sittingthere for three days beside the
plane with broken legs.
Bryan (22:42):
Oh my gosh.
Jeannot (22:43):
Yeah. And we brought him back and he said how his
grandchildren are the ones thatkept him basically alive for
those three days. So that's oneexample, but yeah, hugely
rewarding. I would also like,you know, quick highlights, but
major search and rescue,remember flying fifty hours over
seven days or one mission upnorth of flying 12.4 in my
(23:08):
logbook and an eighteen hourcrew day to fly to get Sartex
and fly all the way up toGujarat. Finally, night flying
in the North Of Quebec is justamazing.
And night boat work when you'reinserting search and rescue
technicians on hoists on shipsat night, I don't think there's
anything more challenging. Soyeah, some amazing some amazing
(23:31):
work in in the search and rescueworld that that that our that
our people do.
Bryan (23:35):
That is some crazy flight time in short periods that you
mentioned there. I just alwayslike to highlight this for
listeners that, you know, likein in my world, the Aurora
world, okay, fifth fifty hoursin a week is like is doable.
It's busy, but it's doable. On ahelicopter, that's crazy. That's
a lot of flying time.
Jeannot (23:54):
Yeah. We were searching for somebody around, I think in
New Brunswick that had crashedin the winter. So we would get
to the aircraft, it was stilldark. We would get everything
ready and take off when the sunwould rise because it was
January and it was really cold.And then we would basically do
two full tanks of fuel so about3.7, three point eight each and
(24:15):
then we would land as the sunwould come down and then we
would start over again.
At first when they wanted tosend me back after a week, said,
No, no, I want to stay for twoweeks. But after a week at that
pace, I kind of took a bit of abreak and and understood why.
Bryan (24:28):
Yeah. I would think that'd be exhausting. Yeah. So
in 02/2002, you were posted asan instructor to four zero three
helicopter operational trainingsquadron in Gaugetown, New
Brunswick. At that time, youwere hoping to go SAR.
How did you feel about thischange in direction, and what
strategies did you use to makethe best of it?
Jeannot (24:46):
Yeah. Well, that that's a funny story because at that
time, I really didn't wanna gothere. And I was I was actually
leaving Quebec as well, and Ieven I even pondered the idea of
releasing and flying for theQuebec police. But I ended up
going to 403 telling my wifewe're going to try it out. When
I arrived, there was a MajorGary Fleming.
And I remember him telling me,Hey, Jano, are you happy you're
(25:08):
here? And I told him, No, Idon't want to work with the
army. I'll do one year here andI want to go search and rescue.
And funny enough, think as we gothrough this interview, I ended
up spending the rest of mycareer very close to the army.
So the lesson I learned there isreally go in with an open mind
because I actually fell in lovewith tech aviation and with
working closely to the army.
Bryan (25:28):
Yeah. And that's something we say here all the
time that you have to keep anopen mind because eventually
what's gonna make the differencebetween a great posting or a
posting that you can't stand isgonna be your attitude and how
you go into it.
Jeannot (25:41):
Absolutely. I went in there with an open mind and and
I think challenges becomeopportunities. And I also
learned at four zero three, likethe power of leadership. My
commanding officer at the timewas Lieutenant Colonel Alain
Parin that became LieutenantGeneral Alain Parin. He took me
aside at one point and kind oftold me he felt I had potential.
Basically, made me feel like Iwas bringing value to the unit.
(26:03):
He gave me purpose And, yeah,that was a pretty determining
moment, I think, in my career.So I also learned that, you
know, the power of the positiveeffect a good leader can have.
Bryan (26:14):
Yeah. And that mentorship that you get from some people is
just so key. The mentors thatcome into your life through your
time in the air force, I thinkespecially as a pilot where we
have less formalized leadershiptraining, I think the mentorship
that we receive is absolutelythe the defining factor in kind
of what type of leader youbecome.
Jeannot (26:33):
Yes. And and and for, you know, and and mentors and
leaders, like, there's no rankand trade to that. Because to
me, you know, I could name somementors and leaders that were
higher ranking, but there's somany mentors and leaders that
were, were NCOs, technicians,logisticians, maintainers.
Absolutely. People I work withthat I learned a tremendous
(26:55):
amount from.
And I would put a pitch in herefor senior NCOs because again,
as officers, as young officersin your career, I don't know if
I can put in words theimportance and the appreciation
I have for our senior NCOs asmentors, as advisors, in the
(27:15):
exceptional role they play to toto make us better leaders and
better pilots.
Bryan (27:20):
I couldn't agree more with that statement. I can think
back to so many NCOs thatmentored me, whether it was in
technical aspects of theaircraft in on the Aurora,
whether it was tactics and whywe do what we do. And a lot of
it was also in leadership. Wehad a lot of guys who were
(27:42):
either just great leaders or hadbeen ex combat arms and had
learned a ton about leadershipthere because leadership is
something that our combat armsdo so well. I completely agree
with that.
Jeannot (27:52):
They teach us certain aspects again of discipline of
doing the job. Like for us intech aviation, you show up at a
unit and you will have peopleagain that were combat arms
before that become air forcetechnicians. They know how it
works in the field. They'llteach you how to build your rock
sack. They'll teach you the keythings you need, the key skills
you need to survive when you'redeployed because some of them
(28:13):
will have multiple deployments.
Again, like you get to knowpeople, everybody has a story
and kind of take off the ranks,take off the positions, get to
know people, get to appreciatethem and respect them for their
knowledge and who they are.
Bryan (28:27):
Oh, for sure. It's funny you say that. Definitely, our ex
combat arms guys were the oneswho made it so that all of us
pilots had, like, a frag vestand tack vest and all that stuff
that was actually well puttogether and ready to go in case
actually needed them. Like, ifit hadn't have been for those
guys, we would have been a mess.
Jeannot (28:45):
Absolutely. My son's a young lieutenant right now,
armored lieutenant, and that'swhat I told him. I said, you you
find the smart, the good, theexperienced NCOs around the
around you and you build arelationship with them. You
respect them, you listen, andyou learn. Right?
Bryan (29:00):
For sure. So what would
you say was the most fun part of instructing at four zero
three Squadron?
Jeannot (29:05):
To me, it's quite simple. It was just becoming a
better pilot. You know, when youfly in unit and I did some
operational missions and badweather in four thirty nine, you
think you're a good pilot, butwhen you have to become an
instructor and teach it toothers, I think you solidify
your foundations. Through thoseyears, got, like I said, to be
an instructor pilot, a standardspilot, instrument check pilot,
(29:27):
advanced NVG. When I left thatunit, I really felt I was a
competent pilot.
Bryan (29:33):
So just that ability to kind of hone your skills and
really hone your craft andbecome, I'll say I'll say a
master almost of of gettingthese things nailed to, like, a
really tight precision.
Jeannot (29:45):
Yeah. Yes. And basically understanding why
you're doing all all thesethings. Right? Because when I
showed up at four thirty nine,people are very experienced
pilots are just doing things.
But sometimes when you become aninstructor, you have to go back
and you have to read how theaircraft works, how all the
systems work. I was also amaintenance test pilot. So
there's so much aspects to learnworking in the simulator on
(30:08):
emergencies. So there's so manyfacets to flying that even, you
know, I kept learning my wholecareer, but I would say after a
few years at a school like that,you feel more confident, in your
knowledge and then the solidityof your, your foundation.
Bryan (30:22):
And you had a pretty good opportunity to solidify that
because you have over 3,000flying hours, which is pretty
respectable for someone whoclimbed the ranks as well as for
someone who flew helicopters.That's a lot of flying. You also
kept qualified all the way up toand including your time as a
wing commander. Why did you feelit was important to stay
qualified as a pilot?
Jeannot (30:43):
Well, first of all, following previous leaders, I
mean, I get back to GeneralParag that had done the same
thing. But to me, was aboutleading by example, first of
all. Second of all is connectingwith the people I lead. You have
to kind of put yourself in theirshoes and kind of build that
connection to show them you'rethe wing commander but you're
(31:04):
also a pilot. Finally, I wouldsay understand their reality and
the evolution, right?
Because by the time you're awing commander, you're probably
fifteen or twenty years fromwhen you started flying.
Technology evolves, theenvironment evolves, people
evolve. So I think it's reallyimportant so you can actually
(31:24):
understand their reality andthen make your decisions are
informed. And maybe finally,it's just to have fun too.
Because I mean, as a wingcommander, every time I was in
the air was probably myquietest, calmest and and and
just best time ever.
Bryan (31:38):
A time to kind of get away and just focus back on the
basics.
Jeannot (31:41):
I'd have to do it. I'd often visit units and I'd fly at
night or I'd fly early in themorning because I, you know, my
day was still filled but stillit was just the it just felt
relaxing and fulfilling, Iguess, to be in the air and and
yeah, doing the job you you youlove so much.
Bryan (31:56):
I believe that for sure. What is the biggest lesson
you've learned from spending somuch time in the air?
Jeannot (32:03):
There's quite a few, but the first one, I'll just say
the the power of psychologicalsafety and trust because for me
helicopters it's a crewenvironment and everybody there
whether it's your co pilot, yourflight engineer, your door
gunner, yeah you have so much tolearn from them. Second part, I
(32:23):
call them the five P's but I'llsay proper preparation prevents
poor performance. As a pilot,you really learn that you need
to be prepared because everytime you kind of cut corners or
you try to do things quick, youwill scare yourself and again
the consequences can be quitedire so the importance of being
well prepared and I would saythe importance of trusting and
(32:43):
enabling young people. As apilot I learned that because as
you get older you tend to wannamake sure they're good enough.
But no, like, kind of reinforcedto me trust young people because
our young people are amazing.
And when you trust them, like,they take their job very
seriously and they'll doexceptionally well.
Bryan (33:00):
Yeah. I think when you do that, you empower people and you
encourage them to perform attheir best.
Jeannot (33:05):
Yep.
Bryan (33:07):
So during all this flying, you met your wife. How
did you meet?
Jeannot (33:11):
My wife was my high school sweetheart. So I think I
met my wife and she was in gradesix. I think I was probably in
second grade 10 so we went out alittle bit together at that time
and then eventually I joined themilitary college and we always
stayed in touch. When I ended upin Baggerville in 1998 she
called me up one night andbasically said she had moved
(33:31):
back to her parents and wassingle. So we started dating at
that time and we've kinda beentogether ever since.
Bryan (33:38):
Oh, that's awesome. How did you manage to maintain a
successful marriage with such anactive flying career and
eventually many commandpositions?
Jeannot (33:46):
I mean, I I just I don't know. I I I feel lucky,
but I think that the trick isreally, like, figuring out what
works for us, figuring out ourown system. Me and my wife
throughout this, you know, wemoved probably over 10 times and
we kind of agreed. She decidedto probably put aside the idea
(34:08):
of working to kind of follow andfocus on the family. Kind of
figuring out what worked for uswas probably the key.
Obviously, compromise andcommunicate. You have to do
that. And I would say probablyquality over quantity. Quality
of time with family overquantity because the quantity
won't be there at times. You gotto focus on the quality and
(34:31):
probably never take it forgranted.
Actions speak more than words sopromising to your spouse a bunch
of things is mildly entertainingbut your actions are key to make
sure that you keep the familyfirst and you go through some of
the challenges you're going facein that career.
Bryan (34:48):
For sure. And with your spouse and with your kids too,
it's so easy to say like, Oh,you know, I'm busy now but we'll
do that later. And then it feelslike, okay, I've pushed that
down the road a bit and I'll getto it. And then it's really easy
to keep doing that. So like yousaid, actions speak louder than
words and when you say you'regonna do something, you do it.
Jeannot (35:07):
Exactly. Life is about priorities, right? So at one
point have to decide what yourpriorities are, but you have to
act according to those or elseagain or else is just words.
Bryan (35:20):
For sure. So I mentioned kids. When were your kids born
during all this?
Jeannot (35:24):
Yeah. So my my son was born in in February in
Bagotville while I was at fourthree nine Squadron. And then
when we moved to to Gaugetown,my daughter was born there in
02/2003. So Bagotville andGaugetown.
Bryan (35:37):
Okay. And did you take parental leave?
Jeannot (35:39):
Yeah. I did. I did on both occasions. I took, I think
six to eight weeks, but I thinkit's about six weeks. But to me,
in both instances, basically, Ispoke to the chain of command.
When I was four or three, mydaughter was born in September
and I wanted to take leave atthe time and remember talking to
the CEO that told me, Why don'tyou take it next summer? Because
I planning to be course directorand he says, It'll be a lot
(36:03):
better if you take it in thesummer than in the fall.
Basically, that's what I did. Soagain, spoke with my wife, in
the fall, was course directorfor a course until the spring.
And then the following summer,managed to take six weeks.
And funny, funny anecdote, wewent on a camping trip in a pop
up trailer fourteen days movedseven times with an eight month
(36:25):
old and a two and a half
Bryan (36:26):
year old and had my
Jeannot (36:28):
dad and brother-in-law betting I wouldn't make it but I
but I did.
Bryan (36:31):
And how did that go moving that many times with the
young kids?
Jeannot (36:35):
Well again, when you're young, you think you're quite
ambitious with your plans. So somaybe if I do it again, I
probably limit it to three orfour moves in in fourteen days.
But For sure. Still greatmemories nonetheless.
Bryan (36:49):
So how did having kids change your career?
Jeannot (36:51):
You spoke to it earlier, right? That that
tension between professional andpersonal. So I think it just
makes that surface more right.Like, you know, your your
profession, your job isimportant, but obviously your
family is incredibly importantas well. So I think to me was
define what success means foryou.
To me, was obviously being closeto my family and then deciding
(37:16):
what I'm going to give theinstitution in terms of
commitment and then kind of letyou let that take you wherever
it takes you.
Bryan (37:26):
So basically, setting up your priorities and sticking to
them and then sort of striking abalance with that as a
guideline?
Jeannot (37:33):
Yeah. Well, that's that's what worked for me
because I said in the end, Idon't wanna be chasing something
because if I do that, I thinkI'll be prioritizing the wrong
things. And to me, if I lookback at my career again, we
moved we moved over 10 times. Myson was at his seventh school by
by grade 10. Right?
Bryan (37:52):
That's tough.
Jeannot (37:53):
But we tried to make an opportunity every time we moved
somewhere, we made a consciouseffort to do something fun,
know, to make it fun for thekids and say, hey, this is a new
place. There's a lot of coolthings to do. And again, that's
how we got through it. But it'schallenging. Moving is
challenging especially as thekids get into high school.
(38:13):
It can be quite tough. Iobviously deployed to
Afghanistan and then I was inthirteen months deployed as well
on Op Proteus. COVID, only cameback for two weeks. Like, you
know, there's challengingperiods in there for sure.
Bryan (38:26):
For sure. So we've kind
of talked about your method for maintaining a balance
between your career and familylife. Do you think it's possible
for both of those things to bean important priority in life at
the same time?
Jeannot (38:37):
Yes, I do. I absolutely do. As I said, I think you need
to instead of being focused onthe goal, I think I would focus
on setting the conditions orunderstanding what you're
willing to give. And to meagain, evolved from being a
(38:58):
young captain but to workingnine hours a day to ten to maybe
more now and deciding what I'mgoing to give on weekends or
when I'm going to do my mastersand those kinds of things and
kind of giving what you'rewilling to give, protecting the
family and just letting thatbring you wherever that brings
you. I think if you startchasing the carrots too much,
(39:19):
you run the risk, guess ofhaving some unintended
consequences.
Bryan (39:23):
Yeah, for sure. You have to kind of set your goals, set
your limits and then hopefullyyou can stick to those.
Jeannot (39:29):
Absolutely.
Bryan (39:30):
Okay. So we've talked a little bit about your early
flying life. We've talked a bitabout your family life. I'd like
to move on now and talk aboutyour time in Afghanistan. You
deployed as the operationsofficer and deputy commanding
officer for the Canadianhelicopter forces in Afghanistan
or CHFA in 02/2009.
What were the conditions like atthe time in Afghanistan?
Jeannot (39:52):
Well, I deployed from April to November 2009. So it
was the fighting season. I thinkit was quite a hard period where
we lost quite a few Canadiansand allies. I mean, the
conditions working at CHFA forme as the ops and DCO, I would
say we're probably workingeighteen hours a day, seven days
a week for the whole time,probably down to twelve to
(40:15):
fourteen the last couple monthsbecause you get more efficient
your job. But there were alsoquite a few periods of forty two
hours in a row because you comein the morning, you work your
day, there's a night aerosol soyou're up all night and then you
have to work the whole next dayand then finally you get some
sleep.
So Wow. But yeah, probably very,very, very challenging, very
(40:40):
challenging and and verychallenging summer.
Bryan (40:43):
That sounds exhausting. And correct me if I'm wrong,
02/2009 was really, I think thepeak of some of the fighting
that happened in Afghanistan. AmI right with that?
Jeannot (40:53):
Well, yeah, I think I think it was. I think every
every deployment is unique andbrings its own challenges. But
yeah, definitely that summer Ithink was one of the high marks
in terms of fighting. So we'reextremely busy with a lot of
quite complex night operations,night aerosols to try to clear
some pretty some pretty strongareas.
Bryan (41:14):
So what exactly was CHFA's role in Afghanistan?
Jeannot (41:18):
So when we arrived there, there's quite a few
roles, but one of them wasconvoy overwatch. So as convoys
were getting hit on the roadsquite a bit, so we would
basically do overwatch. So flyover the convoys and make sure
we're clearing all around them.That was, while not the most
popular job, quite importantbecause when helicopters were
over convoys, they would not gethit. Moving people around with
(41:40):
the Chinooks, we moved likethousands and thousands of
people around.
So keeping Canadians and alliesoff the roads, responded to a
lot of emergency air missionrequests. So last minute
requests were small, we're agileas Canadians. So we did that
exceptionally well. And as Italked about aerosols and I can
expand on those because I thinkthose were probably some of the
(42:00):
most challenging, but alsoprofessionally rewarding
operations I personally wasinvolved in in my career.
Bryan (42:08):
Yeah, for sure. Tell us about what an aerosol is and how
that goes.
Jeannot (42:12):
So major aerosols were normally we would insert upwards
of 300 or 400 people at night togo clear a village over a four
or five day period. So normallywe would have UAVs doing a soak,
we called it. So looking at thepattern of life for about three
or four days prior, we wouldinsert recce the night before to
(42:32):
have eyes on and the night ofwe'd often be working with
American Kiowa warriors that dothe picketing of the landing
zone. And then we would come innormally for Chinooks and for
Griffins, sometimes allCanadian, often a mix of
Canadian and UK in threedifferent waves in the middle of
the night inserting our troopsthere. Then for the following
(42:54):
four or five days, we wouldresupply them every day and then
extract them at the end.
Throughout those operations, hadforward armed refueling points.
We'd obviously to refuel atnight with all those aircraft.
So just exceptionallychallenging but rewarding
operations.
Bryan (43:12):
Yeah, it sounds like something that would be hugely
complex to manage.
Jeannot (43:16):
Yes, hugely complex but again, we train exceptional
pilots and aviators andsoldiers. Right? So a lot of
planning went into it. Some verydetailed briefs and an extremely
high level of professionalism.
Bryan (43:33):
Would that be the kind of thing that would be covered
during pre deployment training?Would you folks do practice runs
of these like back in Canadabefore you left?
Jeannot (43:42):
You know, it's quite a few years back, but I remember
arriving at four thirty Squadronas the new operations officer
there and going through 11different exercises in four
months getting ready. And atfirst, I thought it was too
much, but I think it wasnecessary. When we arrived
there, while it wasintimidating, we were ready. So
(44:03):
our training system isexceptionally good and when
people and when we get in thoseenvironments, we are ready.
Don't get me wrong.
Like the, you know, you'renervous the few first few weeks
and you have to learn quicklyand adapt but we are ready.
Bryan (44:16):
Yeah. Did you do any flying while you were there?
Jeannot (44:19):
Yeah. It was I got to fly, I think, a hundred and
fifty hours in the seven months.So as the operations officer,
not as much as others, but yes,I got to fly and participate in
a mix of all the all thedifferent all the different
operations.
Bryan (44:33):
I bet that helped too as far as, like, if you were only
ever in headquarters kind ofremoved from everything, you
wouldn't have the sameperspective as if you were out
on a few missions and kind ofseeing what it's like on the
ground.
Jeannot (44:46):
Oh, absolutely. The conditions there were so
challenging, especially atnight. So flying there is really
important to get a sense of whatpeople are living every day. And
I always laugh because I alwaysthink of the example when you're
working in ops we're asking allthe pilots to call wheels up,
wheels down because we need toknow where they're at. They
forget and they always complainbecause they think it's a waste
(45:06):
of time.
Then normally you bring them towork in ops for a week and when
they see their peers not makingthe calls and they can't answer
the questions and you send themback flying and they become
really good at it. So we allbenefit from working in ops,
also obviously flying and makingsure we all understand what each
other do within a unit.
Bryan (45:26):
Yeah. That kind of goes back to what we were saying
before about that crosspollination of experience and
and just getting differentperspectives and mixing those in
so you have a stronger overallpicture. What would you say was
the most significant challengesand rewards of this deployment?
Jeannot (45:41):
To me, kind of the most tough toughest flying conditions
of my career with the sand andat night, like, the darkest
environment I've ever flown in.Leadership challenges and not in
a negative fashion. Mean, you'reon seven days a week pretty
well, like sixteen hours a day,we'll say, but it's almost
(46:01):
twenty fourseven. And rewardingto me supporting Canadian and
allied brothers and sisters inarms. We really wanted to be
there, share the risk, share thehardship and reduce their risk
by taking on a little bitourselves.
I think that's when I talk aboutmobility, convoy, escort or air
(46:22):
assaults, that was our way, Ithink, to share some of that
risk and really feel that we'rewe're really helping helping
them out.
Bryan (46:29):
Mhmm. And like you said, it's huge to keep Canadians and
our allies off the roads as muchas possible in Afghanistan
because I I believe most of ourcasualties were roadside bombs.
Jeannot (46:39):
Most of them were, but I would say for us, when I was
there on nine on sixth July twothousand and nine, we had a we
had a crash and we lost I I losttwo of my colleagues there,
Martin Joannette and Pat Odez.Learn some real lessons there
again about the seriousness ofwhat we do. So when I talk about
the five P's and being preparedand being disciplined and taking
(47:02):
your job, your craft seriously,it comes to reality because
things can happen very quick.And in that case, obviously, two
crew members survived but twopassed away. So that really
brought to life the concept ofunlimited liability.
And the other aspect thatsummer, had ramp ceremonies. I
(47:22):
think people are familiar at theend of the day when we lost some
of our members. I think we wereprobably at ramp ceremonies
four, five, six days a week fora period of time there.
Canadians, Americans, Britishallies. So, it kind of brought
the human cost of combat to lifein a real manner for me.
Bryan (47:44):
Did you find that going to those ramp ceremonies, losing
colleagues, did you find thattook a toll?
Jeannot (47:50):
Yeah, it absolutely takes a toll. But one of my
American colleagues followingthat deployment said, it's crazy
what becomes normal. So thefirst two weeks you're there,
you're nervous. And then I thinkit becomes normal and you become
numb to it or youcompartmentalize it because you
(48:10):
need to deliver on the mission.And then I think when you get to
the end and there's only twoweeks left, then you start
thinking about it again becauseyou're like, I only have two
weeks to go when I, you know, Ilike I wanna finish strong and
and and be able to go home.
Bryan (48:25):
Yeah. For sure. What were
the key lessons you learned from your deployment to
Afghanistan and how did thoselessons influence your later
roles and responsibilities?
Jeannot (48:36):
Well, to me, I mean, it brought teamwork and and I say
psychological safety, but makingsure there's trust within a team
and cohesion to a whole newwhole new level. To me, and this
drove my philosophy, I guess foryears to come, you have to
master the fundamentals, whetheryou're a pilot, a maintainer,
whatever trade, you have tomaster the fundamentals. Have to
(48:57):
do that for yourself and to makethe people around you on your
left and on your right safe. Youhave to learn through experience
like PowerPoint and discussionswill only take you so far.
Whenever you train, you got tofind a way to learn through
experience.
And then the importance ofdiscipline and cohesion, All
facets of discipline and to meobviously cohesion because the
(49:19):
difference between a good and agreat team is cohesion in my
world. And while good enough,good is good enough in
bureaucracy when you're incombat, good is sometimes not
good enough and the price youpay for that is quite high. The
last one is French to me butit's faire sans douziam and to
me, you know, I spend time withthe coach of Universite Laval
(49:41):
Rougeteau football and for them,there's 12 players on the field.
And in simple terms, it meansthe 12 have a clear role and
have to be accountable to themfor the team to succeed. And
those are probably some of thekey lessons I learned there.
And I have to get back to seniorNCOs because I learned that
earlier in my career, but thatbecame so true there. My ops
(50:04):
weren't there. Again, I justcan't say enough about the
incredible importance of of ofNCOs in making sure we have the
aircraft on the line, the opscenter is running, just every
facet of it.
Bryan (50:17):
Well, I think that's something that is true if you
read through any kind ofmilitary history that especially
Western militaries rely on astrong core of seasoned,
experienced NCOs, and they'rekind of the people who train the
junior NCMs. They're the peoplewho, like we talked about, give
us junior officers, you know,help us point us in the right
(50:39):
direction and keep us out oftrouble. They're the ones who
keep the military going almost.
Jeannot (50:44):
I've said it many times in my career for people that
know me, have the best. We havethe best non commissioned
officers. We have the best NCMsin the world. We do in Canada,
and we should be proud of that.And we should continue
developing them and evolving,you know, evolving because the
world evolves.
But we have the best in theworld, and and we should be
proud of that.
Bryan (51:04):
Yeah, for sure. So we've talked a lot about your family.
How did your family deal withyou deploying to Afghanistan?
Jeannot (51:11):
I think they were stoic about it but nervous but I I was
privileged. I think I hadtremendous support from my
parents. At the time my daughterwas six, my son was nine. So
when I left, my son realizedwhat was going on and when I
called, he didn't want to talkto me, it was too hard. That was
hard on me.
My daughter didn't realize whatwas going on when I left but
then when I came for HLTA andleft again, then she understood
(51:33):
what was going on. That was abit of the family dynamic and I
would say the last one comingback was an adjustment after
being high adrenaline, high pacefor seven months, coming back
and adjusting to a young familywhere you say we're going leave
at nine and they're not ready togo. I had to work on myself to
(51:56):
kind of get back to normal.
Bryan (51:57):
Did you find when you came back that your family had
kind of adjusted to beingwithout you and now there had to
be an adjustment period whereyou had to ease back into their
routine?
Jeannot (52:08):
Yes, there was for sure. But I think again, feel so
privileged. Like, I mean, mywife was so amazing and the
kids. So there was that period,but yeah, it was clearly on me
not to invade their space, butit was more me that was I went
out of I was out of balance.Right.
I was like too focused.Everything had to click again.
Was a bit of a I was a bit of atime freak. Everything needed to
(52:29):
happen Mhmm. When I thought itshould happen.
Everything was planned out andthen so I needed to kind of step
back from that.
Bryan (52:35):
But that makes sense. Right? Like, you had just spent
seven months in Afghanistanwhere that kind of stuff was
life and death. Like, it's notlike this was coming out of
nowhere and you were just highstrung. Like, this was stuff
that for you for the last sevenmonths, the penalty for not
getting this stuff right couldbe somebody getting killed.
So it makes sense that it takessome time to adjust.
Jeannot (52:54):
Yeah. And the other piece is that people can't and
should not be able to understandwhat you live there. When you
come back again, if you talk toyour military peers, you can
understand but if you're tryinglike you know family is curious,
friends are curious, they wantto know but you realize, you
know, you you talk to them, butyou realize that they don't
truly understand and they can't.And watching the news will give
(53:16):
you, you know, some pieces ofthe story, but it's not always a
% accurate.
Bryan (53:21):
That's a privilege, though, that Canadians by and
large can't understand what it'slike to be in a combat zone or
can't understand what it meansthat, oh, if you make a mistake,
somebody could die. Like, that'sa good thing that most people
can't understand what that'slike.
Jeannot (53:37):
We live in the best country in the world. I mean,
we're we're yeah. We're safe. Wehave resources. We have great
people.
We're educated. So when yes. Weneed to protect that. And that's
what our military is there for.
Bryan (53:51):
Yeah. For sure. I agree completely. So we talked a bit
about how your family handledyour deployment. What supports
were available at that timecompared to now for people who
deployed?
Jeannot (54:03):
Well, I mean, we had the family resource center,
guess is what I have in mindwhen I say that but obviously I
was in Valkyatsee, the base Ithink was good. The family
resource center was good. Theunit at the time, obviously we
were deployed quite a bit duringthat period so members of the
unit would always be availablefor the family. There were
phones in Afghanistan so I couldcall home probably ten or
(54:23):
fifteen minutes in the evening.It wasn't always perfect.
There was no FaceTime. You canreally see each other. So I
think we have more support todaythan we've ever had and we
should. It's necessary. It'simportant.
But I think there's a lot moresupport today. We've learned a
lot from those years and I'dlike to think we're a lot better
at making sure our families aresupported because those are
(54:43):
challenging periods, verychallenging periods for
families.
Bryan (54:46):
You mentioned phones. How much access did you have in
terms of being able to callhome?
Jeannot (54:51):
It was a trailer with, I don't know, eight or 10 phones
in there, but because of myworking hours, I never had a
problem. I think I'd get back tomy room at ten or eleven at
night. So, you know, it was midafternoon back home. So I'd call
for ten or fifteen minutes andgo. But but I think we were
good.
Like we had access. We couldcall home. That wasn't an issue.
Bryan (55:09):
Not too bad. So not one of those situations where like
30 people are sharing one satphone or something like that?
Jeannot (55:14):
No. I think that was a few years before me, but no. I
think we were by that time, Iwas mainly in Kandahar. But I
you know, I'm sure I havecolleagues when when the army
was in platoon houses or forwardoperating bases, I'm sure they
didn't have the same luxury wehad on Kandahar.
Bryan (55:29):
Yeah. For sure. I know that was something that really
surprised us when we went toKuwait for OpImpact. We didn't
know what to expect in terms ofbeing able to call home, but we
had access to Wi Fi. There wasfree phones to use.
It was really good. Like, wewere surprised by how easy it
was to stay in touch with ourour loved ones at home.
Jeannot (55:47):
Yeah. It's evolved. I mean, when I when I deployed on
Op Produce for thirteen months,then with FaceTime, at least it
makes a huge difference when youcan see the person. Back when
you come back, like afterAfghanistan coming back on HLTA
was weird. Like you haven't seeneach other physically in three
or four months or even longer.
But now because of the thetechnology we have, I think it
(56:07):
makes it better.
Bryan (56:08):
Yeah, for sure. Okay, Janelle, that's gonna wrap up
part one of our chat on yourcareer. I wanna thank you so
much for your time today and I'mreally looking forward to
getting together with you again.Thanks so much for your time
today and we'll talk to you forthe next one.
Jeannot (56:21):
Thanks, Brian. Thanks for listening.
Bryan (56:23):
Alright. That wraps up part one of our chat with
lieutenant general, GeneralBoucher, chief of staff, chief
professional conduct and cultureon his early career, including
his time in Afghanistan. For ournext episode, we will talk about
his early command roles, histime as commander of task force
Jerusalem in support of opProteus in the West Bank, as
well as his work developing ourNorth strong and free. Do you
(56:45):
have any questions or commentsabout anything you've heard in
this show? Would you or someoneyou know make a great guest, or
do you have a great idea for ashow?
You can reach out to us at thepilotprojectpodcast@Gmail.com or
on all social media at at podpilot project. And be sure to
check out that social media forlots of great videos of our RCAF
aircraft. As always, we'd liketo thank you for tuning in and
(57:06):
ask for your help with the bigthree. That's like and follow us
on social media, share with yourfriends, and follow and rate us
five stars wherever you get yourpodcasts. That's all for now.
Thanks for listening. Keep theblue side up. See you.
Intro/Outro (57:20):
Engineer, shut down all four. Shutting down all four
engines.
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