What is it like to attend RMC and go through flight training in the RCAF? Why was the CC-115 Buffalo in Comox a desirable posting even with the airplane entering its sunset years? Major Dan Conway is the current Deputy Commanding Officer (DCO) of 413 Transport and Rescue Squadron in Greenwood NS, and soon to be the DCO of 3CFFTS in Portage la Prairie, MB. He has over 4000 flying hours including lots of fixed-wing SAR on the CC-115 Buffalo and the CC-130H Hercules. Today we sit down with Dan to talk about his early days in RMC and going through RCAF flight training, up to the time he was selected to fly the CC-115 Buffalo.
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Intro/outro (00:30):
Fuel and ignition switches. On. RPM switches. Set.
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Normal. Doors and hatches.Closed. Lay down. Stroblade.
On. Research check-in. Completewith your left. Engineer. Start
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Bryan (00:58):
Alright. We're ready for departure here at the pilot
project podcast, the best sourcefor stories and advice from RCAF
and mission aviation pilotsbrought to you by Sky's
Magazine. I'm your host, BrianMorrison. With me today is my
good friend, major Dan Conway, aSAR pilot and deputy commanding
officer four thirteen transportand rescue squadron in
Greenwood, Nova Scotia.Listeners may remember Dan from
(01:18):
way back in episode five on thephase three multiengine course.
Dan, welcome back to the show.It's great to talk to you again.
Dan (01:24):
Yeah. Thanks for having me, Brian.
Bryan (01:26):
Today, will be talking about Dan's career in the RCAF
and his experience flying fixedwing search and rescue or SAR,
as well as talking a little bitabout the future of SAR and the
C295 Kingfisher. But before wejump into any of that, let's go
through Dan's bio. Dan joinedthe RCAF in 2005 under the
Regular Officer TrainingProgram, or ROTP, and attended
the Royal Military College from2005 to 02/2009. In 02/2009, Dan
(01:49):
was posted to the RescueCoordination Centre in Trenton,
Ontario as an assistant aircontroller working on SAR cases.
In In 2011, Dan began hismilitary pilot training
attending phase two on the CTone hundred fifty six Harvard in
Moose Jaw followed by phasethree multi engine training on
the c ninety b King Air inPortage La Prairie earning his
pilot wings in May of twentytwelve.
Dan was posted to Comox BC forhis first operational flying
(02:11):
tour on the CC 115 Buffalo andflew search and rescue there for
four years. He was then postedto be a phase three multi engine
instructor in Portage LaPrairie, Manitoba in 2016 where
he taught for more than fiveyears helping put wings on
almost 150 graduates. In 2021,he was posted to one Canadian
Air Division in Winnipeg as aninstrument check pilot for one
year, still flying the King Airbut also conducting check rides
(02:34):
on almost every fleet in theRCAF on behalf of Air Force
standards. In 2022, Dan waspromoted to major and posted to
four thirteen Transport andRescue Squadron in Greenwood
where he flew the CC-one 138Hercules in SAR and is still an
operational instructor pilot anddeputy commanding officer.
Throughout his career, Dan hasflown more than four thousand
hours, acted as a SAR AC on twoplatforms, an instrument check
(02:56):
pilot on many platforms, andearned the highest category for
a qualified flight instructorand instrument pilot at multiple
units.
Dan is married to the love ofhis life, Kaylee, and father to
three wonderful kids. So let'sstart with your early career.
We've covered some of thisground before, but it's been a
couple of years, so let'srehash. Where did aviation start
for you?
Dan (03:16):
Yeah. I went through cadets as a young kid and basically
from before I was 12, knew thatI wanted to be a pilot. It's
what I've always kind of beenworking towards and it's been
pretty awesome just living mydream.
Bryan (03:33):
Do you have any memory of what started you down that path
in terms of aviation and being apilot or is just something that
was always there?
Dan (03:39):
Yeah. I think I told this story before on the last
episode, but I wanted to be an fsixteen pilot and it took a long
time
Bryan (03:48):
Yes.
Dan (03:49):
For before someone had the heart to let me know that we
didn't have f sixteens. But inthat in that journey, I had
heard about cadets and and thatI could get a pilot's license
through there. And I joined andI really really loved it. So The
the goal switched from being anf sixteen pilot to being a a big
(04:11):
plane pilot probably when I was14 or so.
Bryan (04:15):
Okay. Yeah. What do you think your coolest memory is
from those early days of flighttraining with cadets and beyond?
Dan (04:20):
Yeah. That's a good question. Probably my first solo
cross country when you're doingyour private pilot's license and
I think you're 17 and they giveyou a plane and and tell you to
go do a, you know, four hourcross country across Southern
Ontario and that's pretty cool.
Bryan (04:35):
Where were you flying out of for that one?
Dan (04:36):
Waterloo, Wellington. Yep. Yeah. Out of yeah. Waterloo,
Wellington Flight Centre.
Bryan (04:41):
Yep. Yeah. I was flying out of it was called Empire
Aviation at the time in Londonon
Dan (04:47):
the In London?
Bryan (04:48):
Yeah. But you were on a what? A one fifty?
Dan (04:50):
One seventy two for that.
Bryan (04:51):
Oh, nice. Yeah. Okay.
Dan (04:52):
Yeah.
Bryan (04:53):
That's good. That's a little a little more beefy of a
plane than a one fifty.
Dan (04:58):
Yeah. And they were the new ones. So they had they had two
old ones with carb heat and thenthey had two with the fuel
injectors. And I remember likehow fancy it felt. Not not
having to worry about carb heatand stuff.
Bryan (05:10):
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. So what motivated you to follow
this interest in aviation byserving in the CAF?
Dan (05:17):
Well, when we joined, it was a bit of a dip economically
and there weren't a lot of jobsavailable in the civy sector
without quite a few years oftrying to build hours. And the
the military always appealed tome, especially with with cadets.
And then going to RMC, you know,seemed like a a really logical
(05:40):
choice.
Bryan (05:40):
Yeah. Yeah. So you said you attended RMC under the ROTP
program. What studies did youdecide to pursue?
Dan (05:48):
Initially mechanical engineering. And then after a
year of that, I got a historydegree, which was great. Yeah. I
kinda When I signed up forengineering, that's just what I
was doing and I hadn't reallyput any critical thought into
it. Then when I was there, myfavorite courses were the arts
courses.
Bryan (06:08):
Okay.
Dan (06:09):
And it was quite challenging, the mechanical
engineering program. It freed upa lot more time to pursue all my
other things that I wasinterested in the university.
Bryan (06:21):
Yeah. Well, plus RMC is you're doing university on hard
mode, right? Like you have somany other obligations and
inspections and PT and all thevarious things, especially in
your first year. So I can onlyimagine that doing an
engineering degree on top ofthat must be pretty crazy.
Dan (06:37):
Yeah. It's I mean, a lot of people do it and it's pretty
impressive. Yeah. It wasn't Thatwasn't for me.
Bryan (06:42):
Yeah. That's fair. So I know some people who loved being
at RMC and some who found itvery difficult. How did you like
attending RMC?
Dan (06:51):
I actually really liked it. I thought was a great time. I
think some people struggle withthe all of the different
pressures. So there are a lot ofpeople who have no French
background and getting a Frenchprofile is requirement. And that
can be really stressful orpeople who struggle with the
(07:12):
physical fitness aspect.
But I had a pretty good base inin all of the aspects. So I
really just kind of got to enjoyit. And it was like it's like
full immersion into militarylife Mhmm. Which is if you're
into that, a lot of fun.
Bryan (07:28):
Well, it certainly has its pros. I remember when I was
on my first OJTE posting afteruniversity and having gone to a
civilian university, and I wasposted with some people who had
been to RMC. The differencebetween us in terms of what we
knew about the military wasmassive because I had just done
my two basic training coursesand that was it. And they knew
they knew basically how to be inthe military and I did not.
Dan (07:52):
Yeah. That's fair. But I mean, at this point in your
career, there's essentially nodifference. Right? Like it's
everything kind of evens out asyou go through and and become
operationally qualified.
Yeah. It doesn't really matterwhat path you're taking. The the
training throughout will willget you to that endpoint.
Bryan (08:11):
Yeah. For sure. It was just during those early days
that the I think for them, theculture shock had already
happened, whereas I wasexperiencing it for the first
time as a university graduate.What would you say was the best
and worst parts of going to RMC?
Dan (08:26):
The best part of RMC was probably the program, the
academic program. I did militarystrategic studies, which is a
mixture of history and politicsand also that military nerd
thing that I really enjoy. So Ithought the program was really
(08:47):
fascinating, but also applicableto my career and becomes more
applicable the longer I'm in, Ifind. And it was hard hard to
see people struggle and hard toget really close to people and
then have them, release inbetween years or not be
successful on their occupationaltraining and then end up
(09:11):
releasing.
Bryan (09:11):
So
Dan (09:11):
that happened, I think probably twenty, twenty five
percent of our class ended upnot graduating.
Bryan (09:18):
Oh, really? Yeah. That would be really challenging
because you get a little tasteof that on basic training as you
like make friends and they dropout. But I imagine that's much
harder when you're in universityand forming deeper friendships
and then that's that'shappening.
Dan (09:34):
It's very rare that people aren't trying. Every Everyone
there is kind of trying and andgiving everything that they
have, but there's there's a lotto accomplish in in a short
amount of
Bryan (09:44):
time. Mhmm. You mentioned using your degree more as time
goes on. Like how are youfinding that it is more useful?
Dan (09:52):
So you're familiar with CAF JODs and the and the
developmental program for airforce officers?
Bryan (10:00):
Yeah. For listeners Well, why don't you explain for the
listeners what that is?
Dan (10:03):
So the CAF JADS are the basic military law, military
history, primers on GenevaConvention, that kind of stuff.
Things that every officer in themilitary should understand. And
then the AFODs are air forceofficer development and they
bring you through how the airforce actually functions, what
(10:25):
its position in the governmentis, what its purpose is, and
where all of the differentauthorities lie. As you go
through that, the capstone tothat is called the air and space
power operations course. There'sa heavy component of military
history and military strategy inthat.
The operational planning processis obviously military strategy
(10:47):
at the operational level, vicethe strategic level. And I find
that the academic portion of allof those courses give me that
same taste of military historyand and that I that I got in
university.
Bryan (11:04):
Okay.
Dan (11:05):
So I, you know, I really enjoy reading military journals
and stuff like that. I find itreally fascinating.
Bryan (11:13):
Okay. I've heard the first year orientation period or
FIOP can be really tough. Howdid you find it?
Dan (11:21):
Well, I was really young and I was really fit. So that's
my context. So I actually didn'tmind it because I just put my
head down and did the thing. Butit was intense. But some of your
best memories come from goingthrough like a crucible with a
group of people.
Bryan (11:41):
For
Dan (11:41):
sure. So I still remember every person that I did FIOP
with and that you it culminatesin an obstacle course at the end
and you kind of go through itand it's a big exciting rite of
passage at the time. And you doget a true sense of
accomplishment. Even though itwas just like a year long or a
month long extra basic trainingbasically, it does give you this
(12:07):
real sense of accomplishment andthen inclusion into the school
once it's done.
Bryan (12:11):
For sure. I mean and I think that's the whole point of
it, right? Is it's essentiallyindoctrination in a good way
Yes. To to help you and youryour cohort meld into a unit and
and bond.
Dan (12:22):
Yeah. And I think in the past before I was there, there
was a lot of, you know, hazingand and a little bit of a darker
history to that, which has kindof been captured. Mhmm. But
there was none of that. Like,there was nothing inappropriate
or malicious or hazing when wewere there.
It was just work and fitness.Yeah. A big point of FIOP is to
(12:45):
get people on the right trackfor physical fitness. Yeah.
Bryan (12:50):
What's something you learned as an officer at RMC
that still shapes how youconduct yourself today?
Dan (12:57):
At RMC, like I said before, there were a lot of people that
were struggling and you got tosee a lot of good examples and
bad examples for that how thatwas handled by the leadership.
So there were some really goodexamples where the members were
supported with empatheticleadership. They were given
opportunities to improve. Andthen in my opinion, there were
(13:20):
some bad examples where it feltlike those members were
ostracized because they weren'table to meet the standard and
eventually those people wouldrelease, but it was not a
supportive and kind process forthem. So it's it's always kind
of stuck with me that therethere is a standard that needs
(13:44):
to be met, but there aredifferent ways that you can
support your subordinates andencourage and motivate them
without making them feelisolated and ostracized.
Mhmm. And I think that'sapplicable to basically
everything that we do. If youlead with empathy, people are
(14:06):
more able to meet the standardin the end. Because everyone has
a life, everyone has family, andeveryone is balancing all of
that and they're trying to makethe air force work for their
life. But if you're tipping thescales and the balance doesn't
work for them, they're alwaysgoing to choose family over the
military.
So you really do need to leadwith empathy.
Bryan (14:27):
Mhmm. Yeah. That makes sense. So let's talk about your
phase one flight training. Youattended phase one on the GROBE
in 02/2007.
How did you feel as you arrivedfor your first flight training
course in the RCAF?
Dan (14:39):
I was pretty excited. I had a bit of flying under my belt
and I had also flown the fixedgear version of the Globe before
I went there. So I didn'tanticipate any struggles and it
was It kind of felt like beingon my air cadet power course
again and I had a lot of fun.
Bryan (14:59):
Yeah. What was your first impression of flight training in
the RCAF?
Dan (15:04):
So phase one training is done by civilian contractors
that work for KF Aero.
Intro/outro (15:08):
Mhmm.
Dan (15:09):
And I thought that they were really professional and
they were working towards astandard. I I found that the
instruction was really good. Andthe plane at that point in my
career felt like a hot rod. Itwas really cool. Yeah.
Bryan (15:22):
Yeah. Yeah. Which is funny, like the the baby plane
basically of the Air Force. Butwhen you're coming from the
private pilot world and you'reused to Cessnas or a Katana or,
you know, these really smallpiston engine aircraft. Of
course, the Globe is still apiston engine.
Dan (15:39):
Yeah.
Bryan (15:40):
It's a it's a far more high performance aircraft than
what you're used to.
Dan (15:43):
Yeah. It was it's definitely like a a Ferrari
compared to a Cessna one fiftytwo or something like that.
Bryan (15:50):
Can you briefly describe the course as well as the
overall goals of phase one?
Dan (15:55):
So phase one is a selection course. They're not actually
trying to teach you how to fly.They're trying to give you the
tools to learn in a militarysetting and then assess whether
or not you can learn in amilitary setting. So there are
goals. They do want you to beable to perform the landings and
(16:17):
the take offs and the maneuversto a certain standard.
But the goal is actually tolearn at a specific rate that's
dictated. And then if you can't,you are gonna struggle on follow
on training because we can't leta student get unlimited hours to
the standard. So that's kind ofthe point is to make sure you
have the aptitude to learn on acurve, which I'm sure is
(16:42):
something you've you've heardbefore. But they do give you all
the tools that you need to besuccessful. And with aircrew
selection before that, mostpeople that make it to PFT do
have the aptitude to learn on acurve.
Bryan (16:59):
Well, that's the whole idea behind aircrew selection,
right, is
Dan (17:02):
Yeah.
Bryan (17:02):
To move that failure would that be upstream or
downstream?
Dan (17:07):
Downstream. Yeah. Yes.
Bryan (17:08):
To move to move that failure downstream to avoid the
the lost training costs and thelost time for instructors and
students and all that. Right?
Dan (17:16):
And it's about that cost and time for the member as well.
Right? Cause it takes years toget to PFT. Whereas if that
member would be would have amore fruitful career as an
armored officer as or as ATC oras a navigator, that time is
better spent working towardsthat. But yeah, it's basically a
selection course.
Bryan (17:35):
Mhmm. And do you think that that still runs true for
today?
Dan (17:41):
I don't have like, I don't have any interaction with that
course.
Bryan (17:45):
Yeah. This is just dance a couple years.
Dan (17:46):
But yeah, I think so. There's no nothing that you can
teach in a summer long course isgoing to give like valuable
hands and feet skills to apilot, it's still a selection
course. Now there is they doteach the basic power attitude
(18:07):
trim, attitude power trim, thethings that you're gonna work on
your entire career and I stilldebrief professional pilots with
thousands of hours on like,okay, you were slow. What should
you have done first? Is it pitchdown or is it add power?
So those things still come upthroughout your career all the
time, But it's still a selectioncourse.
Bryan (18:29):
Yeah. Do you remember how many of your course made it
through or rather how manydidn't? It's probably an easier
number.
Dan (18:35):
Yeah. So ours was an anomaly. We had 22 on course and
11 were CT. Oh, wow. So we likethe bloody course.
But what had happened there, Iwas one of the first courses on
the grobe. So they had beenchanging their syllabus and
changing their criteria. And sothey were interpreting the extra
(18:59):
dual time that they were givingdifferently. So they were only
giving you how much 10% of thetime you'd actually flown to
that point in the course.
Bryan (19:07):
Oh, instead of the course total.
Dan (19:09):
Exactly. So for some members, if they failed a flight
four flights in, they were onlyentitled to half an hour of
extra flight time. And then ifthey couldn't make it, they were
they were sent home. So all ofthe people who failed on my
course were given another shot.
Bryan (19:29):
I was gonna ask if they had Did they have to
Dan (19:31):
agree for No. I think they rectified the problem and they
went back and offered toeverybody. I know of one
specifically that had alreadymoved on in another career and
didn't accept. But I know ofseveral of my peers now that are
really successful pilots withseveral thousand hours who did
(19:53):
fail off course.
Bryan (19:54):
Yeah.
Intro/outro (19:55):
Which is pretty crazy. It is, but it's
Dan (19:57):
not the end. Right? If you're really if you're really
driven, you can you can pursue acareer in aviation Mhmm.
Regardless of, you know, onefailure.
Bryan (20:05):
For sure. And it also sort of shows you the razor's
edge that you're on sometimes inmilitary flight training. Like
the idea that you may not makeit through a course doesn't
necessarily have to be the nailin the coffin for your aviation
career. It may mean that youcan't pursue it in the military,
but it doesn't necessarily meanlike, oh, you didn't make it
(20:25):
through phase one or phase two,you know, hang hang up your
dreams of flying and and go dosomething else.
Dan (20:31):
No. And it it really goes back to what I was saying about
the learning on a curve thingMhmm. That that never stops.
Basically, until you're doneyour first operational tour and
you've made it to AC or crewcommander, whatever the
equivalent is for your fleet,you're always expected to
accomplish those upgrades on atimeline. So just because you're
(20:53):
unsuccessful with that doesn'tmean you don't have the aptitude
to fly, it means that you're notmeeting the timelines that we
require.
And part of that is drivenbecause of the posting process
and how long we actually retainmembers. But, yeah, lots of
There's lots of opportunities tomake a living in aviation.
Bryan (21:14):
Mhmm. And it's also You talk about the posting cycle and
those kinds of things. It's alsojust the fact that we're always
in need of more trained peopleas soon as possible. Right?
Yeah.
Like, we don't have the theluxury of taking our time. We we
just can't do it in thisorganization. Like, we need
people always. Yeah. There's anattrition rate that has to be
(21:35):
overcome.
There's operational pressuresthat have to be met, and we just
can't take our time.
Dan (21:42):
And and sadly the the highest attrition, and this is
just based on my observation notbased on statistics, but it
seems to be the members with themost qualifications that are
usually getting out rightbecause
Bryan (21:54):
Well, that makes sense.
Dan (21:55):
Yeah. They're hitting me twenty or twenty five years or
just a good jump off point forthem in their lives. And so we
have to replace, you know, thestandards, the training
personnel, the aircraftcommanders. And that that takes
a lot of training to get there.
Bryan (22:10):
Yeah. Yeah. And that, like you said, that's anecdotal,
that's an observation, but itdoes make logical sense because
they are, as you said, maybethey're reaching the point in
time where they're pensionable.It may just be that they have
all the qualifications they needand they feel like it's time to
make a change. They can easilybe hired by an airline.
Yep. And that's what fits theirlife better now.
Dan (22:32):
Or it's just the end of their restricted release and
it's on to another thing. Right?Find that the newer generation,
there's nothing wrong with doinga ten year career and then
moving on to another thing. Sowe we need to incorporate that
with how we operate.
Bryan (22:50):
Yeah. And I'd love to see obviously, it's nice to see when
people wanna make it a full,I'll call it a lifelong career
or do the full twenty five yearsor whatever. But I think we have
to I look at when I would meetAmericans and so many of them
are like, yeah, I'm just doingmy five and then I'm gonna, you
know, go back to school or andthen I'm gonna fly with the
(23:12):
airlines or depending onwhatever their trade was. And I
think normalizing that is not abad thing. Like for people to do
a stint in the military, whetherit's, you know, a ten year ten
years as a pilot or twenty five,like either way they're serving
their country and it's a it's anet gain for the air force.
Dan (23:28):
Yeah, exactly.
Bryan (23:31):
On phase one, did you find your prior flight
experience gave you much of anadvantage over your course
mates?
Dan (23:36):
Yes, absolutely.
Bryan (23:37):
Did you find that that was something like for the
entirety of the course that youwere still pretty much ahead of
them? Do you think they caughtup to you?
Dan (23:43):
Yeah. Because for me, I wasn't really tested to having
to learn on a curve until I hitMoose Jaw. Yeah. Because I was
already, you know, I got there,I could land, I could fly the
Grove. I had done aerobatics.
Yeah. So for me, it was just afun summer of flying. It didn't
really accomplish its purpose.
Bryan (24:02):
Well, it did but Yeah. You were just you were above
where you needed to be.
Dan (24:07):
Yeah. Exactly. Whereas when I when I hit Moose Jaw and we
started doing things likeformation flying or low level
nav, like the IF stuff, I stillhad I still was pretty advanced
with that stuff. But the the lowlevel NAV and formation flying,
they were pretty humbling for meYeah. Personally.
Bryan (24:24):
Yeah. And we'll get to that in a bit. I'd like to talk
a bit about your time at theRescue Coordination Center. You
graduated from RMC and like mostof us, you had to wait for Moose
Jaw. Got your first postingwhich was at the Rescue
Coordination Centre in Trenton,Ontario as an assistant air
controller working on SAR cases.
Can you tell us what this jobinvolved?
Dan (24:43):
Yeah. So the way that SAR works in Canada is that the
military is responsible foraeronautical SAR response. And
then we cover marine SARresponse with a partnership with
the coast guard. So we stilltask military assets on on that.
And then humanitarian caseswhich are like missing persons
(25:05):
or a hiker or a snowmobiler, westill will employ military
resources for that, but it goesthrough basically a request
channel from RCMP.
All of that is employed throughCJOC, which is the Joint
Operational Command, which isour, you know, our
(25:27):
expeditionary, our operationalcommand in Canada and abroad.
And it goes down through theKayak and then down to the RCCs
through the SRR commanders,which are all basically either
two star generals or two staradmirals.
Bryan (25:44):
What's what's an SRR? Search And Rescue Region.
Dan (25:47):
Okay. Then they're given to the search mission coordinators.
So search and rescue missionmission coordinators, the SMCs,
which are either coast guardmarine officers or captain
pilots or navs or now air opsofficers who have some sort of
(26:08):
operational experience. And theyhandle and persecute the case by
tasking military assets, butalso by phoning civilian
agencies. They work within theemergency management offices in
the provinces that they're in,they they basically cast a web
to solve a problem.
They're like investigators orproblem solvers. The assistant
(26:31):
that they have is there to dothose phone calls or receive
phone calls and log everythingbecause everything is logged.
Actually talk to the air crew toget their debriefs for searches
that they've done, put itplotted on the map to figure out
where they're gonna task next.Whereas the the strategy and
(26:52):
coordination comes through thatthat captain position who's
actually the air controller orthe marine controller. So the
assistant's job is to assist theair controller in managing a
mission from when they receivethe call and there's some sign
of distress or urgency to eitherfinding it or reducing the case
(27:18):
because of there's no chance ofsurvivability or it's a
humanitarian case and RCMP hadjust asked us to do a
preliminary search or somethinglike that.
Bryan (27:29):
Okay. Really interesting. Good rundown of SAR system.
Dan (27:33):
Yeah. There's there's a lot there. It's it's actually a
really complex system because ithas to work with every level of
civilian agencies that react toemergencies. But it's outside of
the request for civil requestfor aid from military power from
civil authorities. So if there'san ice storm, the province will
(27:56):
declare a state of emergency andwe'll ask for the military to
help and we'll go in droves andwe'll help.
But this is a daily occurrencethat's not reading reaching that
level Right. Where the militarycan actually directly liaise and
work with civilianorganizations. So we'll talk
more about that on on theHirkers or stuff, I'm sure. But
if you think about a medevac, amedevac case, when your case
(28:20):
when you're tasked on that,there's like six different
agencies, military and civilian,that are involved in that. But
the end product is that, youknow, a person gets picked up by
the ambulance either from thehospital or from the that
person's house, brought to amilitary aircraft, and then
flown to a higher level ofservice
Intro/outro (28:41):
Right.
Dan (28:41):
While maintaining their current level of care the whole
way. And that's it's pretty coolthat we can do that.
Bryan (28:46):
Yeah. A 100%. As a young officer, how did you handle the
stress of knowing that liveswere on the line while you were
working?
Dan (28:53):
So to be honest, I didn't really think about that too
much. I was especially in myfirst tour, I was really hyper
focused on trying to become thebest pilot I could be, mastering
the actual tactics and theflying of search and rescue and
understanding what what happenedbehind the scenes.
Bryan (29:11):
But what about in terms of your role while you were at
the rescue coordination center?
Dan (29:17):
Honestly, it wasn't too stressful because we had
processes in place. So I justlearned and followed the
processes and I was neverworking autonomously. So I
always had that missioncontroller who was there. And if
something was out of theordinary or was too delicate,
(29:40):
they normally take that. So Inever felt unsupported or
unprepared to handle the task.
And at the end of the day, whatthey teach you is that it's your
job to give the best servicethat you possibly can, but
you're not responsible for whathappened to that Canadian. So
(30:03):
you didn't get that Canadianlost or you didn't sink that
Canadian's boat, you'reresponsible to give him the best
search and rescue service thatyou possibly can. But even that
is not always going to besuccessful. So you just try to
be a professional the whole timeand do exactly what you're
supposed to do and that givesthem the highest statistical
(30:24):
chance of success.
Bryan (30:25):
Okay. Did working at the RCC inspire you to fly SAR
aircraft? And if so, why?
Dan (30:31):
Yeah. It it definitely did. Before that, I hadn't thought of
search and rescue. And I I hadleaned towards flying the bigger
newer planes like c 17 and jmodel Herx at that time, which
were just entering service. Butit definitely intrigued me
because it's a mission thateveryone can understand and be
(30:55):
motivated to do.
Even someone who is notnecessarily pro military, if you
tell them that you are involvedin search and rescue, they're
gonna say thank you. They're notgonna be political about it. The
goal is just to help Canadiansget home safely to their
families, end stop. So I didthink that that was really cool.
(31:17):
I really enjoyed my time thereand it definitely made me want
to explore that.
Bryan (31:22):
Okay. What key lessons about SAR did you learn at the
RCC that you still use to thisday?
Dan (31:29):
The tactics have not actually changed that much. So
back then it was called theNational Search and Rescue
Manual and now it's called theCanadian Search and Rescue
Manual, the CAMSAR. That'salmost the same as it used to
be. They're they're redoing somestuff now, but stuff that I
studied back in 2009 is stillthings that I was taught on the
(31:51):
HERCO to you or taught on theBuffalo to you many years later.
So a lot of the tactics werevery relevant and it also every
day as an operator, I talk tothose mission coordinators that
work at RCC.
And so I understand what isgoing on on the other side.
Mhmm. So it's really nice tounderstand. It'd be like a
(32:14):
police officer, you know,understanding what's going on in
the dispatcher's role and andwhat they're actually looking
at. It's it's the same kind ofthing.
Bryan (32:22):
For sure.
Dan (32:22):
You can see behind the curtain.
Bryan (32:24):
You have a bit of a more well rounded perspective.
Dan (32:27):
Yeah. You you understand what information they're working
with and kind of what processesthey're going through.
Bryan (32:32):
Yeah. And maybe even some of what they need from you as
well. Yeah. So back to flighttraining, you completed your
phase one flight training andyou've proven that you've got
some potential, but now it'stime to move to a different
world entirely and fly the CTone fifty six Harvard two on
phase two in Moose Jaw. Can yougive us an outline of what this
course consists of?
Dan (32:51):
Yeah. So this is the meat and potatoes course. This is
where they teach you all of theskills that are required and
transferable to every fleet thatyou're gonna fly, whether it's
jets, fixed wing, or rotary. Andyou also have to still do it on
a curve. So they're gonna coverall the basic maneuvers, all the
(33:15):
instrument flight maneuvers,emergency procedure handling,
and the philosophy that we usein the military for handling
emergency procedures, which isthe same on every aircraft that
you ever fly, the whole aviatenavigate communicate concept.
And, you know, they'll they testyou. So you actually have to
(33:37):
work under pressure and you, youknow, you have to be able to
show on a specific day thatyou've mastered what they're
teaching you to the level thatthey need you to teach it or you
need to have learned it to. Andthat's also a very military
concept where it's like, I'mgonna come in today and I'm
gonna expect you to do task x yand zed to this level of
(33:58):
proficiency. And if you can't doit on that specific day, well,
you failed the test and you'vegot to go work on So it was
definitely an eye opener for mebecause it was challenging, but
it was also a blast. It was alot of fun and the Harvard was
and is still a really coolairplane.
Bryan (34:19):
How did you find flying the Harvard?
Dan (34:22):
After I got over the initial like nausea because and
I'm not someone that's ever beenairsick but even for me just the
angle you're sitting on and theengine, it just made me nauseous
for the first couple flights.
Bryan (34:36):
It's super common on the Harvard specifically. I also
felt sick on my first one or twoflights and I'm also not prone
to air sickness at all.
Dan (34:46):
Yeah. I've actually never been air sick in an in an
aircraft, but that's the closestI've ever I've ever been. But
yeah, it's a it's a hot rod. Ifif the globe is a Ferrari, like
this thing is a Rolls Royce withan extra engine and it's pretty
cool. I'd never moved at thosespeeds before and you're going
(35:10):
really fast.
And the 60 and twos that you doin the circuit, that's their
standard way of moving the planearound.
Bryan (35:18):
Right. And that being a 60 degree turn
Intro/outro (35:20):
at two gs. That's right.
Dan (35:21):
Yeah. That's not something I'd ever actually done before.
So it it was definitely eyeopening, but your only job when
you're on that course is tolearn to fly. There's nothing
else required of you. So it wasfull immersion for six months,
study, fly, hang out withfriends, work on studying and
(35:45):
flying and rinse repeat for sixmonths.
Bryan (35:47):
So
Dan (35:47):
I thought it was really awesome.
Bryan (35:49):
It's a fun course. It's a stressful course, but it can be
really fun.
Dan (35:52):
Very stressful. And it's easy to forget this much later
in my career, but I still thinkback to while I was on course, I
would have all of thesecontingency plans. Like, okay,
well, if I fail this test and Idon't make it and I get CT'd
which is c's trained, I'll askto go back and I'll finish my
(36:13):
masters and then maybe I'll getout and I'll I'll be a history
professor. And it's just weirdto be a relatively high
performer. I'd never reallystruggled to pass anything, but
still be thinking of thesebackup plans as like a real
possible.
Bryan (36:29):
Yeah. Well, that's that's moose jaw. Right? Like, even if
you're doing really well, you'reonly ever a couple flights away
from being out, like a couplebad flights away. Yeah.
And you do think about thosethings. You think about like,
what else can I do? What's mybackup plan? Even if even if
you've never struggled before.
Dan (36:47):
Yeah. It was definitely an interesting place but it was
really rewarding and fun. Yeah.
Bryan (36:54):
Now we hinted at this earlier but did you have any
particular challenges whilemaking your way through phase
two?
Dan (37:00):
I do not like formation flying. I did not like it and I
was not very good at it. But Ididn't know that going in. But
then when I actually got in theplane and I got where I thought
was correct and my instructorwas like, no no, you gotta go a
lot closer, closer, closer,closer. I was super
uncomfortable.
So I kept on getting downgradedbecause where I would settle was
(37:22):
like one and a half times wherethey wanted you. And I could
only hold the position wherethey wanted me to for a short
time and then I would slide out.So I barely made the grade and
form.
Bryan (37:32):
Okay.
Dan (37:33):
And it wasn't really due to hands and feet. It was due to
personal limits, would say. AndI just did not like being close
to other aircraft. So that theturning rejoin, which is like a
thing and some people love it,that was like my nightmare. I
hated it.
Bryan (37:48):
So It's pretty hairy the first time you do it. Like a
turning rejoin, how I describethis on an audio format?
Basically, the plane you'rejoining on is in the distance
and you fly an intercept angleon it and it's in a slight turn.
And at the last second as youget the feeling like holy crap,
we're gonna hit, you bank yourplane even more to stop yourself
(38:11):
and then you're on their wing.
Dan (38:13):
Yeah. It'd be like in a single lane roundabout. If you
were trying to acceleratequickly, go faster than another
car that was already in theroundabout, and then end up
beside it in parallel with it.Even though there's not a lane
there and you're not supposed todo that. That's what it felt
like to me the whole time.
It's like, I'm not supposed tobe doing this. Your entire
(38:36):
flying career, you're taughtlook for other aircraft, avoid
other aircraft. If an aircraftis not moving in your
windscreen, it's a problembecause it means you're on a
collision course. Where it's inform, if the aircraft is not
moving in your windscreen,that's great. And it's growing
in your windscreen?
Even better. That's what you'resupposed to be doing. Yeah, I
(38:58):
didn't love form.
Bryan (38:59):
How did you overcome that challenge?
Dan (39:02):
Well, you have to pass in order to pass the course. I
wanted to pass the course. So Iactually had an instructor. I'm
not sure if he's in or not, buthis last name was Power. And he
called himself a form hater aswell, but he was a good
instructor and obviouslyproficient at it.
And he was like, just gotta suckit up for two more flights, just
(39:26):
get your level four and thenmove on so that you never have
to do form in your life again.And if they ask you to be a
fighter pilot, don't do it. Soyeah. So we got through it.
Bryan (39:36):
Okay. What is the biggest lesson you learned from phase
two that continues to influenceyou as a pilot today?
Dan (39:45):
Stress management, resiliency, and sleep
sanitization are just socritical. And by that, mean, I
struggled I struggled with sleepa lot in Moose Jaw
Intro/outro (39:58):
for me the
Dan (39:59):
first time in my life. And we actually they had resources
there, but the biggest changewas just don't work in your
bedroom. Don't study in yourbedroom. Don't use your computer
there so that your bedroom isjust for sleep. And those are
those are skills that I learnedbecause I'd never been in that
much stress before that I Istill employ and teach and teach
(40:24):
my kids to this day.
Bryan (40:28):
Yeah. I can relate to that. I also had a lot of sleep
issues in Moose Jaw for thefirst time in my life And it was
a struggle to be honest. Ididn't really get past it until
I would say phase threeconsistently. And actually even
to this day from time to time,it will still get me.
So that's a tough one for sure.
Dan (40:49):
Yeah. It requires a lot of discipline to realize that the
distress you're under is okayand that you will be able to get
through it. My mantra is like,if something is stressing me out
for tomorrow or there'ssomething that I don't want to
do that I know I have to do, Ijust think to myself, well, do
(41:10):
your best job and in six hours,it's gonna be over. And we can't
stop time so there's no way tostop that. It's like public
speaking.
I don't love public speaking. Itmakes me nervous, but there are
times where you have to stand infront of the unit and deliver
the message, have theconversation, and you just do
(41:32):
it. Then it's done.
Bryan (41:33):
Yeah. When you finished your course, were selected to go
multi engine. Was that what youwanted at the time?
Dan (41:40):
Yes. Especially after it had been pointed out to me that
I was not fit for fighters. Andthe the lifestyle of the
helicopter pilot is notsomething that I that I sought.
Yeah. So, yeah, I I definitelyreally wanted Balty.
Bryan (41:54):
Okay. When you arrived at phase three multi engine
training relaxed than phase two?
Dan (42:01):
Yeah. It was a lot different. No one there was
really concerned about whetheror not they were gonna make it.
It was a when they were gonnapass, and it was about absorbing
as much knowledge while you werethere that you could.
Bryan (42:17):
Yeah. I found the same. I found that phase two is like a
prove yourself type environment,and phase three was more like a
we're gonna prepare you now tobe a professional type course.
Dan (42:30):
Exactly. Yeah.
Bryan (42:32):
How did you like learning to fly the c 90 b king air?
Dan (42:35):
I thought it was really cool. Yeah. I loved autopilot.
That was awesome. I also lovedthe sim because the the Harvard
had a had a simulator but itdidn't move.
Right? And so the the fullmotion sim on on the King Air
was was really neat. Mhmm. And Ifelt a lot better prepared for
emergencies and stuff like that.But just being in an aircraft
(42:59):
that had enough range to be ableto travel across the continent
was really cool.
Bryan (43:08):
Yeah. The King Air is a big step up in a lot of ways,
which is kind of funny becauseit's not like that much bigger.
I mean, is, but it's not huge.It's still in in terms of a
multi engine aircraft, a fairlysmall aircraft.
Dan (43:21):
Yeah.
Bryan (43:22):
But it's just such a big step up. It's the first time
you're dealing with a crewenvironment. I really enjoyed
the King Air. I like you said,the autopilot is nice to have,
especially after all the handflying on the previous courses.
Yeah.
I even like the switches andstuff on the King Air. Like it's
got classic airplane toggleswitches and stuff and
Dan (43:42):
Yep. Absolutely.
Bryan (43:43):
Yeah. Like, the fuel panel is very satisfying. It is.
And, like you said, the sim, isa huge step up. Like, that sim
is is world class and we can docalls and stuff in that sim.
Right?
Dan (43:57):
Yep. Yeah. Absolutely.
Bryan (43:58):
Yeah. So that's you know how good the fidelity is if
you're able to do your yearlyqualifications in a simulator
versus in the real aircraft.
Dan (44:09):
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It's I think it's a really good
platform to transition you tothe operational fleets.
Obviously, as you said, it's nota Herc, it's not an Aurora.
It is a lot smaller, But it'sbig enough that you can employ a
crew concept and you can teachall of the basics that are gonna
(44:30):
transition you really well intothe operational communities. So
I'm sure there's still a biglearning curve for the turbofan
fleets. You know, the the new athree thirty or the c 17, like
that's still a differentaircraft. Mhmm. But any
turboprop, which is most of thecockpits for for multi engine, a
(44:52):
turbo prop is a turbo prop.
Yeah. And it's they're they'refairly similar.
Bryan (44:57):
Yeah. There's depending on the age of them, like, as you
know on on the Herc and I and weknew as with basically the same
engine and prop on the Aurora.There's a difference in the age
of what age of technology it wasdeveloped in for in terms of the
mechanisms of how it works. Butessentially, they they all run
by the same principles.
Dan (45:17):
And I've seen all errors. Like, the the Buffalo was early
sixties technology. The Herc iseighties technology. And the c
90 b is February. Yeah.
'9 nineteen nineties really.
Bryan (45:31):
Yeah. But a lot changed.
Dan (45:32):
Yeah. A p a p t six is a magical
Bryan (45:34):
It's yes. PT six is the engine on, on the King Air, but
it's also the engine in theHarvard on a Pilatus PC 12. It's
one of the most reliable andcommon turboprop engines out
there. Yeah. Yeah.
What did you find was the mostchallenging part of phase three?
(45:56):
Or did you find there weren'tthat many challenges on phase
three?
Dan (45:59):
Yeah. I I didn't find phase three challenging. I found it
really rewarding. Mhmm. It'slike when you get to take an
elective course in universitythat that just piques your
interest and is totally up youralley.
That's what phase three was forme. So it was all really cool,
(46:20):
all super applicable, and Ienjoyed pretty much every aspect
of phase three. Did you
Bryan (46:28):
have any strategies that you employed to kind of keep
yourself ahead so that it didn'tbecome a big challenging
experience?
Dan (46:36):
I chair flew a lot and I still do in my career. So
emergencies and and all of theSOPs when it was, you know, this
happens and then you need to dothis five step process. And if
you don't if you skip a step,you're gonna fail or do it
wrong. And there's there's areason for that. It's it's
safety related.
(46:57):
But for those, would sit in mysit in my room and close my eyes
and visualize and just chair flyall of those procedures. Yeah.
And just go in with a blankslate and try to learn
everything that they wereteaching me.
Bryan (47:10):
Yeah. I'm a huge fan of chair flying. Melissa is
probably going to roll her eyeswhen she edits this to hear me
say this again. But chair flyingis just absolutely critical,
especially within militaryflight training when you're
getting as we've talked about,it's a very efficient process
and you only get so many kicksat the can. So giving yourself
extra essentially extra trainingon your own is crucial.
Dan (47:32):
Well, and it's still it doesn't lose its usefulness once
you're qualified. I'll just saythat because I have a fair
amount of experience and I'vebeen pretty successful. I still
chair fly my emergencies everySunday. I go through them. It
doesn't take long, it only takesten minutes.
But when you have the contextand you understand where all the
(47:53):
switches are and why you'redoing each movement that you're
doing, All you're doing isbuilding the right muscle memory
so that in the in the time youryour bucket is bigger and you
can handle more stress and stilldo the right things.
Bryan (48:04):
Oh, yeah. Running emergencies was something that I
did. I did it daily until I feltreally comfortable with it. And
then, like you said, maybe maybedo it twice a week or once a
week once you're at a stage inin life on the aircraft where
you feel very comfortable. ButYeah.
Something you should never stopdoing.
Dan (48:22):
Yeah. A 100%. Yeah.
Bryan (48:25):
So a big part of phase three is flying through the
mountains on a cross country.You've spent a considerable
amount of time flying in themountains in your career. What
was the biggest lesson youlearned about mountain flying on
phase three?
Dan (48:37):
Yeah. That's a great one actually. And I still remember
the approach into Cranbrook. Andthat's that you need to think
ahead and you need to beproactive. You have to be a
thinking pilot.
You can't be a reactive handsand feet pilot because that's
not enough. So the mountains arebig and they're unforgiving. And
(49:00):
obviously those those lessonsapply to all flying. But when
you're literally 10,000 feethigh on an approach because you
haven't thought things throughand you opted not to do the
shuttle descent that's depicted,you feel pretty foolish.
Bryan (49:15):
Yeah. Yeah. Mountain flying is humbling. It can be
for sure. I'll just say, like,when I came back to begin FIC,
flight instructor course here inPortage, and we did our first
trip into the mountains, I washumbled by the the importance.
Like, you're always doingperformance calculations and
those are always important, butobviously they become absolutely
(49:37):
critical once you're in themountains, like that's what's
going to save your life. There'sjust a lot more planning to be
done. There's a lot morethinking ahead like you said.
And there's a lot of, there's acomfort level that has to be
built. There's a certain levelof trust that the procedures are
gonna keep you safe.
And it's one thing on abeautiful day to fly the
procedures where you can see themountains and it's actually
(49:58):
really a neat experience andyou're getting these incredible
views if you have a moment tolook up. But it's another thing
entirely to maybe see the peakof a mountain poking through the
clouds and then to descend intothose clouds and just trust that
these procedures are going tokeep you from hitting a rock
wall.
Dan (50:15):
Yep. Exactly. And so you better understand the procedures
that you're flying and be aheadof the planes that you don't
deviate.
Bryan (50:23):
Yep. What did it feel like to march up on parade and
get your wings?
Dan (50:28):
Yeah. That was awesome. It was like a a dream come true.
And, you know, it's it was verynostalgic for me as well. Like,
doing cadets, you do a similarMhmm.
Ceremony when you get yourglider swings and when you get
your private pilot's licensewings. Yeah. It felt like the
successful culmination of yearsand years and years of work.
Bryan (50:51):
Yeah. Which it was.
Dan (50:52):
And then they tell you on parade, this is just the
beginning of your journey. Thework starts here. And on parade,
that doesn't really sink in, butit does sink in a few years
later when you're once againstressed and under the gun and
trying to make another upgradeand make it happen.
Bryan (51:10):
Flight training in the military is very cyclical. Every
time you make it, whether that'sgetting your wings or next is
qualifying on your operationalaircraft, and then the next
thing is upgrading to aircraftcommander, and then the next
could be becoming standards oran instructor pilot or whatever.
There's always another iterationof, oh, I made it. Oh, guess
(51:34):
what? There's another level andyou don't know anything yet and
you need to keep your nose tothe grindstone and stay humble
and keep working.
Dan (51:42):
I will say that that process is one of the most
rewarding things that you canhave if you're like me. It's
like a real life RPG. There's noroom to stagnate in your life.
Yeah. You're constantly workingtowards the next upgrade, the
next qualification, the nextthing.
And then in my career, you getto the end, you operate there
(52:04):
for a little bit, then they postyou to a new fleet. And you
start again. And it's faster andit's easier, but you go through
all the process and then theypost you to a new fleet and you
start again and then you get tothe end and it's kind of cool
because I have never in my wasthis twenty years now in the
military? I've never felt like Iwas stagnating. I've always had
(52:27):
a near and long term goal thatI'm working towards.
Mhmm. It's yeah. It's like areal life RPG.
Bryan (52:33):
Yeah. And I think it's it's rare that a career will
provide you with a constantchallenge. And I mean,
obviously, there are careers outthere that will. But Yeah. To
have those goals, to always havesomething that you're working
towards, like, it's a veryfortunate thing to have.
Dan (52:49):
Now now some people hate that. And it's not for
everybody. And so there is roomto slow that down and not be
under the gun and not sufferthat stress your whole career if
you don't want to.
Bryan (53:06):
Well, there's people who stay line pilots on a Yeah.
Squadron or within a fleet theirentire career.
Dan (53:11):
Yeah. Exactly. But there's there is opportunities to switch
things up and challenge yourselfas well. Mhmm.
Bryan (53:19):
So as we've already mentioned, you passed phase
three and were selected to flythe CC one fifteen Buffalo with
four four two transport andrescue squadron in Comox BC. Was
that what you wanted? And if so,why the buff over the c one
thirty Hercules?
Dan (53:33):
Nope. That wasn't what I wanted. My first reaction was
what is the buffalo? Like,didn't really know. I didn't
expect it and but they had aslot and they needed it filled.
And one of the instructors on myphase three was an ex Buffalo
(53:53):
pilot, and then he pulled measide and he's like, hey,
listen. Trust me, you want this.You're gonna be good out there.
Because I had asked for all ofthe Herc fleets and then I had
also asked for c seventeens andI had also asked for Jays. So
Buffalo wasn't even on my topfive.
Yeah. And that's a that's atrend throughout my career. I
(54:15):
have never ever been postedwhere I thought I was gonna be
posted or where I was initiallyasking to get posted and I've
always had just incrediblepostings. And every posting
seems to get better and moreenjoyable. But I think it's with
the energy that you put in iswhat you're gonna receive back
multiplied by a factor.
Bryan (54:35):
A 100%.
Dan (54:36):
So I was grateful to that instructor for pulling me aside.
Basically telling me like, hey,don't be a spoiled brat. You're
gonna like it, enjoy it. And Iwent out there with a good
attitude and it and it was itwas incredible.
Bryan (54:52):
Did you learn during your time as a student on phase three
that influenced how youconducted yourself as an
instructor later in life?
Dan (55:01):
It's that enthusiasm that really matters. So as a student
or even as an officer, thenegative influences or the
people that are kind of ho orwhatever, you generally just
forget about those. You tunethem out and they're just noise
and you do your job and you moveon. But there are a few people
in your career who were reallyenthusiastic or really
(55:25):
passionate, but in the right waythat you will always remember
and and you can take some ofthat motivation and incorporate
it into your own drive. Mhmm.
And I I got to see that on onphase three. There were a couple
instructors that were verypassionate and positive about
what they were doing, And I'vetried to take that and make that
(55:45):
a part of how I interact withsubordinates, how I teach
flying, and just how I am. And Ithink if you're enthusiastic
about something, other peoplewill get excited about it. Even
if that's a week long trip toWinnipeg to fly nights every
single night, if you'reenthusiastic about the
(56:07):
opportunity that you're getting,everyone else on your detachment
is gonna be enthusiastic.
Bryan (56:13):
Absolutely. Yeah. It's up to you to set the tone. Yeah. I
had a standards pilot tell methat when I was upgrading to a
crew commander on the Aurora.
And it's true, like you can showup in the middle of the night
for a flight and say, hey guys,like I know this kind of sucks,
we're all really tired, but youknow, let's push through. Or you
(56:33):
can show up and be like, okayguys, you know, I know we're a
little tired, but tonight's agreat opportunity. We've got a
chance to play with a real subtonight and that's, you know,
and you go from there. Right?
Dan (56:44):
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Always I always joke when we night fly
on the Herc, it's always theactive Sarcrew that's training,
right? And when we land andwe're done, I'm like, okay guys,
I'll see you at three in themorning for a Sarcrow.
Everybody's like, come on. Butif that happens, I've never
(57:04):
really had a sarco thatafterwards I was like, Oh man, I
wish I hadn't done that. It'salways a very rewarding
experience.
Bryan (57:13):
We're down to our last question for this section of our
chat. If you could give astudent who is starting their
flight training today a piece ofadvice, what would that be?
Dan (57:22):
Persevere and stay positive. There's a large body
of work to be accomplished andit's a marathon, it's not a
sprint. So one bad day or onebad week or getting sick and
missing flights or bad weatheror whatever, that's not going to
derail your career. Having agreat attitude and a good work
(57:45):
ethic are going to get you wayfarther than raw talent and
natural skill. So just stickwith it and be resilient.
Resiliency doesn't mean that youdon't get bogged down and you
don't get upset and break down.It means that every time
something beats you down, youget back up. And that's what's
important.
Bryan (58:04):
Yeah. Okay, Dan. That's gonna wrap up part one of our
chat for today. It was great tohear about your time in flight
training and I'm really lookingforward to hearing about your
time in the operational SARworld as well as the future of
SAR and the c two nine fiveKingfisher when we return for
part two. Thanks for being heretoday.
Dan (58:21):
You're welcome.
Bryan (58:23):
Alright. That wraps up part one of our chat with my
good friend, Major Dan Conway,deputy commanding officer of
four thirteen Transport andRescue Squadron and RCAF pilot.
For our next episode, we'llcheck back in with Dan to hear
all about his operationalcareer, including his time on
the Buffalo and the Hercules, aswell as the future of Tsar in
the CC two nine five Kingfisher.Do you have any questions or
(58:45):
comments about anything you'veheard in this show? Would you or
someone you know make a greatguest, or do you have a great
idea for a show?
You can reach out to us at thepilotprojectpodcast@Gmail.com or
on all social media at at podpilot project. And be sure to
check out that social media forlots of great videos of our RCAF
aircraft. As always, we'd liketo thank you for tuning in and
ask for your help with the bigthree. That's like and follow us
(59:08):
on social media, share with yourfriends, and follow and rate us
five stars wherever you get yourpodcasts. That's all for now.
Thanks for listening. Keep theblue side up. See you.
Intro/outro (59:19):
Engineer, shut down all four. Shutting down all four
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Intro/outro (00:30):
Fuel and ignition switches. On. RPM switches. Set.
PD switches.
Normal. Doors and hatches.Closed. Lay down. Stroblade.
On. Research check-in. Completewith your left. Engineer. Start
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Starting to. Wing three one zeroten, pilot project podcast,
(00:50):
clear takeoff runway three oneleft.
Bryan (00:58):
Alright. We're ready for departure here at the pilot
project podcast, the best sourcefor stories and advice from RCAF
and mission aviation pilotsbrought to you by Sky's
Magazine. I'm your host, BrianMorrison. With me today is my
good friend, major Dan Conway, aSAR pilot and deputy commanding
officer four thirteen transportand rescue squadron in
Greenwood, Nova Scotia.Listeners may remember Dan from
(01:18):
way back in episode five on thephase three multiengine course.
Dan, welcome back to the show.It's great to talk to you again.
Dan (01:24):
Yeah. Thanks for having me, Brian.
Bryan (01:26):
Today, will be talking about Dan's career in the RCAF
and his experience flying fixedwing search and rescue or SAR,
as well as talking a little bitabout the future of SAR and the
C295 Kingfisher. But before wejump into any of that, let's go
through Dan's bio. Dan joinedthe RCAF in 2005 under the
Regular Officer TrainingProgram, or ROTP, and attended
the Royal Military College from2005 to 02/2009. In 02/2009, Dan
(01:49):
was posted to the RescueCoordination Centre in Trenton,
Ontario as an assistant aircontroller working on SAR cases.
In In 2011, Dan began hismilitary pilot training
attending phase two on the CTone hundred fifty six Harvard in
Moose Jaw followed by phasethree multi engine training on
the c ninety b King Air inPortage La Prairie earning his
pilot wings in May of twentytwelve.
Dan was posted to Comox BC forhis first operational flying
(02:11):
tour on the CC 115 Buffalo andflew search and rescue there for
four years. He was then postedto be a phase three multi engine
instructor in Portage LaPrairie, Manitoba in 2016 where
he taught for more than fiveyears helping put wings on
almost 150 graduates. In 2021,he was posted to one Canadian
Air Division in Winnipeg as aninstrument check pilot for one
year, still flying the King Airbut also conducting check rides
(02:34):
on almost every fleet in theRCAF on behalf of Air Force
standards. In 2022, Dan waspromoted to major and posted to
four thirteen Transport andRescue Squadron in Greenwood
where he flew the CC-one 138Hercules in SAR and is still an
operational instructor pilot anddeputy commanding officer.
Throughout his career, Dan hasflown more than four thousand
hours, acted as a SAR AC on twoplatforms, an instrument check
(02:56):
pilot on many platforms, andearned the highest category for
a qualified flight instructorand instrument pilot at multiple
units.
Dan is married to the love ofhis life, Kaylee, and father to
three wonderful kids. So let'sstart with your early career.
We've covered some of thisground before, but it's been a
couple of years, so let'srehash. Where did aviation start
for you?
Dan (03:16):
Yeah. I went through cadets as a young kid and basically
from before I was 12, knew thatI wanted to be a pilot. It's
what I've always kind of beenworking towards and it's been
pretty awesome just living mydream.
Bryan (03:33):
Do you have any memory of what started you down that path
in terms of aviation and being apilot or is just something that
was always there?
Dan (03:39):
Yeah. I think I told this story before on the last
episode, but I wanted to be an fsixteen pilot and it took a long
time
Bryan (03:48):
Yes.
Dan (03:49):
For before someone had the heart to let me know that we
didn't have f sixteens. But inthat in that journey, I had
heard about cadets and and thatI could get a pilot's license
through there. And I joined andI really really loved it. So The
the goal switched from being anf sixteen pilot to being a a big
(04:11):
plane pilot probably when I was14 or so.
Bryan (04:15):
Okay. Yeah. What do you think your coolest memory is
from those early days of flighttraining with cadets and beyond?
Dan (04:20):
Yeah. That's a good question. Probably my first solo
cross country when you're doingyour private pilot's license and
I think you're 17 and they giveyou a plane and and tell you to
go do a, you know, four hourcross country across Southern
Ontario and that's pretty cool.
Bryan (04:35):
Where were you flying out of for that one?
Dan (04:36):
Waterloo, Wellington. Yep. Yeah. Out of yeah. Waterloo,
Wellington Flight Centre.
Bryan (04:41):
Yep. Yeah. I was flying out of it was called Empire
Aviation at the time in Londonon
Dan (04:47):
the In London?
Bryan (04:48):
Yeah. But you were on a what? A one fifty?
Dan (04:50):
One seventy two for that.
Bryan (04:51):
Oh, nice. Yeah. Okay.
Dan (04:52):
Yeah.
Bryan (04:53):
That's good. That's a little a little more beefy of a
plane than a one fifty.
Dan (04:58):
Yeah. And they were the new ones. So they had they had two
old ones with carb heat and thenthey had two with the fuel
injectors. And I remember likehow fancy it felt. Not not
having to worry about carb heatand stuff.
Bryan (05:10):
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. So what motivated you to follow
this interest in aviation byserving in the CAF?
Dan (05:17):
Well, when we joined, it was a bit of a dip economically
and there weren't a lot of jobsavailable in the civy sector
without quite a few years oftrying to build hours. And the
the military always appealed tome, especially with with cadets.
And then going to RMC, you know,seemed like a a really logical
(05:40):
choice.
Bryan (05:40):
Yeah. Yeah. So you said you attended RMC under the ROTP
program. What studies did youdecide to pursue?
Dan (05:48):
Initially mechanical engineering. And then after a
year of that, I got a historydegree, which was great. Yeah. I
kinda When I signed up forengineering, that's just what I
was doing and I hadn't reallyput any critical thought into
it. Then when I was there, myfavorite courses were the arts
courses.
Bryan (06:08):
Okay.
Dan (06:09):
And it was quite challenging, the mechanical
engineering program. It freed upa lot more time to pursue all my
other things that I wasinterested in the university.
Bryan (06:21):
Yeah. Well, plus RMC is you're doing university on hard
mode, right? Like you have somany other obligations and
inspections and PT and all thevarious things, especially in
your first year. So I can onlyimagine that doing an
engineering degree on top ofthat must be pretty crazy.
Dan (06:37):
Yeah. It's I mean, a lot of people do it and it's pretty
impressive. Yeah. It wasn't Thatwasn't for me.
Bryan (06:42):
Yeah. That's fair. So I know some people who loved being
at RMC and some who found itvery difficult. How did you like
attending RMC?
Dan (06:51):
I actually really liked it. I thought was a great time. I
think some people struggle withthe all of the different
pressures. So there are a lot ofpeople who have no French
background and getting a Frenchprofile is requirement. And that
can be really stressful orpeople who struggle with the
(07:12):
physical fitness aspect.
But I had a pretty good base inin all of the aspects. So I
really just kind of got to enjoyit. And it was like it's like
full immersion into militarylife Mhmm. Which is if you're
into that, a lot of fun.
Bryan (07:28):
Well, it certainly has its pros. I remember when I was
on my first OJTE posting afteruniversity and having gone to a
civilian university, and I wasposted with some people who had
been to RMC. The differencebetween us in terms of what we
knew about the military wasmassive because I had just done
my two basic training coursesand that was it. And they knew
they knew basically how to be inthe military and I did not.
Dan (07:52):
Yeah. That's fair. But I mean, at this point in your
career, there's essentially nodifference. Right? Like it's
everything kind of evens out asyou go through and and become
operationally qualified.
Yeah. It doesn't really matterwhat path you're taking. The the
training throughout will willget you to that endpoint.
Bryan (08:11):
Yeah. For sure. It was just during those early days
that the I think for them, theculture shock had already
happened, whereas I wasexperiencing it for the first
time as a university graduate.What would you say was the best
and worst parts of going to RMC?
Dan (08:26):
The best part of RMC was probably the program, the
academic program. I did militarystrategic studies, which is a
mixture of history and politicsand also that military nerd
thing that I really enjoy. So Ithought the program was really
(08:47):
fascinating, but also applicableto my career and becomes more
applicable the longer I'm in, Ifind. And it was hard hard to
see people struggle and hard toget really close to people and
then have them, release inbetween years or not be
successful on their occupationaltraining and then end up
(09:11):
releasing.
Bryan (09:11):
So
Dan (09:11):
that happened, I think probably twenty, twenty five
percent of our class ended upnot graduating.
Bryan (09:18):
Oh, really? Yeah. That would be really challenging
because you get a little tasteof that on basic training as you
like make friends and they dropout. But I imagine that's much
harder when you're in universityand forming deeper friendships
and then that's that'shappening.
Dan (09:34):
It's very rare that people aren't trying. Every Everyone
there is kind of trying and andgiving everything that they
have, but there's there's a lotto accomplish in in a short
amount of
Bryan (09:44):
time. Mhmm. You mentioned using your degree more as time
goes on. Like how are youfinding that it is more useful?
Dan (09:52):
So you're familiar with CAF JODs and the and the
developmental program for airforce officers?
Bryan (10:00):
Yeah. For listeners Well, why don't you explain for the
listeners what that is?
Dan (10:03):
So the CAF JADS are the basic military law, military
history, primers on GenevaConvention, that kind of stuff.
Things that every officer in themilitary should understand. And
then the AFODs are air forceofficer development and they
bring you through how the airforce actually functions, what
(10:25):
its position in the governmentis, what its purpose is, and
where all of the differentauthorities lie. As you go
through that, the capstone tothat is called the air and space
power operations course. There'sa heavy component of military
history and military strategy inthat.
The operational planning processis obviously military strategy
(10:47):
at the operational level, vicethe strategic level. And I find
that the academic portion of allof those courses give me that
same taste of military historyand and that I that I got in
university.
Bryan (11:04):
Okay.
Dan (11:05):
So I, you know, I really enjoy reading military journals
and stuff like that. I find itreally fascinating.
Bryan (11:13):
Okay. I've heard the first year orientation period or
FIOP can be really tough. Howdid you find it?
Dan (11:21):
Well, I was really young and I was really fit. So that's
my context. So I actually didn'tmind it because I just put my
head down and did the thing. Butit was intense. But some of your
best memories come from goingthrough like a crucible with a
group of people.
Bryan (11:41):
For
Dan (11:41):
sure. So I still remember every person that I did FIOP
with and that you it culminatesin an obstacle course at the end
and you kind of go through itand it's a big exciting rite of
passage at the time. And you doget a true sense of
accomplishment. Even though itwas just like a year long or a
month long extra basic trainingbasically, it does give you this
(12:07):
real sense of accomplishment andthen inclusion into the school
once it's done.
Bryan (12:11):
For sure. I mean and I think that's the whole point of
it, right? Is it's essentiallyindoctrination in a good way
Yes. To to help you and youryour cohort meld into a unit and
and bond.
Dan (12:22):
Yeah. And I think in the past before I was there, there
was a lot of, you know, hazingand and a little bit of a darker
history to that, which has kindof been captured. Mhmm. But
there was none of that. Like,there was nothing inappropriate
or malicious or hazing when wewere there.
It was just work and fitness.Yeah. A big point of FIOP is to
(12:45):
get people on the right trackfor physical fitness. Yeah.
Bryan (12:50):
What's something you learned as an officer at RMC
that still shapes how youconduct yourself today?
Dan (12:57):
At RMC, like I said before, there were a lot of people that
were struggling and you got tosee a lot of good examples and
bad examples for that how thatwas handled by the leadership.
So there were some really goodexamples where the members were
supported with empatheticleadership. They were given
opportunities to improve. Andthen in my opinion, there were
(13:20):
some bad examples where it feltlike those members were
ostracized because they weren'table to meet the standard and
eventually those people wouldrelease, but it was not a
supportive and kind process forthem. So it's it's always kind
of stuck with me that therethere is a standard that needs
(13:44):
to be met, but there aredifferent ways that you can
support your subordinates andencourage and motivate them
without making them feelisolated and ostracized.
Mhmm. And I think that'sapplicable to basically
everything that we do. If youlead with empathy, people are
(14:06):
more able to meet the standardin the end. Because everyone has
a life, everyone has family, andeveryone is balancing all of
that and they're trying to makethe air force work for their
life. But if you're tipping thescales and the balance doesn't
work for them, they're alwaysgoing to choose family over the
military.
So you really do need to leadwith empathy.
Bryan (14:27):
Mhmm. Yeah. That makes sense. So let's talk about your
phase one flight training. Youattended phase one on the GROBE
in 02/2007.
How did you feel as you arrivedfor your first flight training
course in the RCAF?
Dan (14:39):
I was pretty excited. I had a bit of flying under my belt
and I had also flown the fixedgear version of the Globe before
I went there. So I didn'tanticipate any struggles and it
was It kind of felt like beingon my air cadet power course
again and I had a lot of fun.
Bryan (14:59):
Yeah. What was your first impression of flight training in
the RCAF?
Dan (15:04):
So phase one training is done by civilian contractors
that work for KF Aero.
Intro/outro (15:08):
Mhmm.
Dan (15:09):
And I thought that they were really professional and
they were working towards astandard. I I found that the
instruction was really good. Andthe plane at that point in my
career felt like a hot rod. Itwas really cool. Yeah.
Bryan (15:22):
Yeah. Yeah. Which is funny, like the the baby plane
basically of the Air Force. Butwhen you're coming from the
private pilot world and you'reused to Cessnas or a Katana or,
you know, these really smallpiston engine aircraft. Of
course, the Globe is still apiston engine.
Dan (15:39):
Yeah.
Bryan (15:40):
It's a it's a far more high performance aircraft than
what you're used to.
Dan (15:43):
Yeah. It was it's definitely like a a Ferrari
compared to a Cessna one fiftytwo or something like that.
Bryan (15:50):
Can you briefly describe the course as well as the
overall goals of phase one?
Dan (15:55):
So phase one is a selection course. They're not actually
trying to teach you how to fly.They're trying to give you the
tools to learn in a militarysetting and then assess whether
or not you can learn in amilitary setting. So there are
goals. They do want you to beable to perform the landings and
(16:17):
the take offs and the maneuversto a certain standard.
But the goal is actually tolearn at a specific rate that's
dictated. And then if you can't,you are gonna struggle on follow
on training because we can't leta student get unlimited hours to
the standard. So that's kind ofthe point is to make sure you
have the aptitude to learn on acurve, which I'm sure is
(16:42):
something you've you've heardbefore. But they do give you all
the tools that you need to besuccessful. And with aircrew
selection before that, mostpeople that make it to PFT do
have the aptitude to learn on acurve.
Bryan (16:59):
Well, that's the whole idea behind aircrew selection,
right, is
Dan (17:02):
Yeah.
Bryan (17:02):
To move that failure would that be upstream or
downstream?
Dan (17:07):
Downstream. Yeah. Yes.
Bryan (17:08):
To move to move that failure downstream to avoid the
the lost training costs and thelost time for instructors and
students and all that. Right?
Dan (17:16):
And it's about that cost and time for the member as well.
Right? Cause it takes years toget to PFT. Whereas if that
member would be would have amore fruitful career as an
armored officer as or as ATC oras a navigator, that time is
better spent working towardsthat. But yeah, it's basically a
selection course.
Bryan (17:35):
Mhmm. And do you think that that still runs true for
today?
Dan (17:41):
I don't have like, I don't have any interaction with that
course.
Bryan (17:45):
Yeah. This is just dance a couple years.
Dan (17:46):
But yeah, I think so. There's no nothing that you can
teach in a summer long course isgoing to give like valuable
hands and feet skills to apilot, it's still a selection
course. Now there is they doteach the basic power attitude
(18:07):
trim, attitude power trim, thethings that you're gonna work on
your entire career and I stilldebrief professional pilots with
thousands of hours on like,okay, you were slow. What should
you have done first? Is it pitchdown or is it add power?
So those things still come upthroughout your career all the
time, But it's still a selectioncourse.
Bryan (18:29):
Yeah. Do you remember how many of your course made it
through or rather how manydidn't? It's probably an easier
number.
Dan (18:35):
Yeah. So ours was an anomaly. We had 22 on course and
11 were CT. Oh, wow. So we likethe bloody course.
But what had happened there, Iwas one of the first courses on
the grobe. So they had beenchanging their syllabus and
changing their criteria. And sothey were interpreting the extra
(18:59):
dual time that they were givingdifferently. So they were only
giving you how much 10% of thetime you'd actually flown to
that point in the course.
Bryan (19:07):
Oh, instead of the course total.
Dan (19:09):
Exactly. So for some members, if they failed a flight
four flights in, they were onlyentitled to half an hour of
extra flight time. And then ifthey couldn't make it, they were
they were sent home. So all ofthe people who failed on my
course were given another shot.
Bryan (19:29):
I was gonna ask if they had Did they have to
Dan (19:31):
agree for No. I think they rectified the problem and they
went back and offered toeverybody. I know of one
specifically that had alreadymoved on in another career and
didn't accept. But I know ofseveral of my peers now that are
really successful pilots withseveral thousand hours who did
(19:53):
fail off course.
Bryan (19:54):
Yeah.
Intro/outro (19:55):
Which is pretty crazy. It is, but it's
Dan (19:57):
not the end. Right? If you're really if you're really
driven, you can you can pursue acareer in aviation Mhmm.
Regardless of, you know, onefailure.
Bryan (20:05):
For sure. And it also sort of shows you the razor's
edge that you're on sometimes inmilitary flight training. Like
the idea that you may not makeit through a course doesn't
necessarily have to be the nailin the coffin for your aviation
career. It may mean that youcan't pursue it in the military,
but it doesn't necessarily meanlike, oh, you didn't make it
(20:25):
through phase one or phase two,you know, hang hang up your
dreams of flying and and go dosomething else.
Dan (20:31):
No. And it it really goes back to what I was saying about
the learning on a curve thingMhmm. That that never stops.
Basically, until you're doneyour first operational tour and
you've made it to AC or crewcommander, whatever the
equivalent is for your fleet,you're always expected to
accomplish those upgrades on atimeline. So just because you're
(20:53):
unsuccessful with that doesn'tmean you don't have the aptitude
to fly, it means that you're notmeeting the timelines that we
require.
And part of that is drivenbecause of the posting process
and how long we actually retainmembers. But, yeah, lots of
There's lots of opportunities tomake a living in aviation.
Bryan (21:14):
Mhmm. And it's also You talk about the posting cycle and
those kinds of things. It's alsojust the fact that we're always
in need of more trained peopleas soon as possible. Right?
Yeah.
Like, we don't have the theluxury of taking our time. We we
just can't do it in thisorganization. Like, we need
people always. Yeah. There's anattrition rate that has to be
(21:35):
overcome.
There's operational pressuresthat have to be met, and we just
can't take our time.
Dan (21:42):
And and sadly the the highest attrition, and this is
just based on my observation notbased on statistics, but it
seems to be the members with themost qualifications that are
usually getting out rightbecause
Bryan (21:54):
Well, that makes sense.
Dan (21:55):
Yeah. They're hitting me twenty or twenty five years or
just a good jump off point forthem in their lives. And so we
have to replace, you know, thestandards, the training
personnel, the aircraftcommanders. And that that takes
a lot of training to get there.
Bryan (22:10):
Yeah. Yeah. And that, like you said, that's anecdotal,
that's an observation, but itdoes make logical sense because
they are, as you said, maybethey're reaching the point in
time where they're pensionable.It may just be that they have
all the qualifications they needand they feel like it's time to
make a change. They can easilybe hired by an airline.
Yep. And that's what fits theirlife better now.
Dan (22:32):
Or it's just the end of their restricted release and
it's on to another thing. Right?Find that the newer generation,
there's nothing wrong with doinga ten year career and then
moving on to another thing. Sowe we need to incorporate that
with how we operate.
Bryan (22:50):
Yeah. And I'd love to see obviously, it's nice to see when
people wanna make it a full,I'll call it a lifelong career
or do the full twenty five yearsor whatever. But I think we have
to I look at when I would meetAmericans and so many of them
are like, yeah, I'm just doingmy five and then I'm gonna, you
know, go back to school or andthen I'm gonna fly with the
(23:12):
airlines or depending onwhatever their trade was. And I
think normalizing that is not abad thing. Like for people to do
a stint in the military, whetherit's, you know, a ten year ten
years as a pilot or twenty five,like either way they're serving
their country and it's a it's anet gain for the air force.
Dan (23:28):
Yeah, exactly.
Bryan (23:31):
On phase one, did you find your prior flight
experience gave you much of anadvantage over your course
mates?
Dan (23:36):
Yes, absolutely.
Bryan (23:37):
Did you find that that was something like for the
entirety of the course that youwere still pretty much ahead of
them? Do you think they caughtup to you?
Dan (23:43):
Yeah. Because for me, I wasn't really tested to having
to learn on a curve until I hitMoose Jaw. Yeah. Because I was
already, you know, I got there,I could land, I could fly the
Grove. I had done aerobatics.
Yeah. So for me, it was just afun summer of flying. It didn't
really accomplish its purpose.
Bryan (24:02):
Well, it did but Yeah. You were just you were above
where you needed to be.
Dan (24:07):
Yeah. Exactly. Whereas when I when I hit Moose Jaw and we
started doing things likeformation flying or low level
nav, like the IF stuff, I stillhad I still was pretty advanced
with that stuff. But the the lowlevel NAV and formation flying,
they were pretty humbling for meYeah. Personally.
Bryan (24:24):
Yeah. And we'll get to that in a bit. I'd like to talk
a bit about your time at theRescue Coordination Center. You
graduated from RMC and like mostof us, you had to wait for Moose
Jaw. Got your first postingwhich was at the Rescue
Coordination Centre in Trenton,Ontario as an assistant air
controller working on SAR cases.
Can you tell us what this jobinvolved?
Dan (24:43):
Yeah. So the way that SAR works in Canada is that the
military is responsible foraeronautical SAR response. And
then we cover marine SARresponse with a partnership with
the coast guard. So we stilltask military assets on on that.
And then humanitarian caseswhich are like missing persons
(25:05):
or a hiker or a snowmobiler, westill will employ military
resources for that, but it goesthrough basically a request
channel from RCMP.
All of that is employed throughCJOC, which is the Joint
Operational Command, which isour, you know, our
(25:27):
expeditionary, our operationalcommand in Canada and abroad.
And it goes down through theKayak and then down to the RCCs
through the SRR commanders,which are all basically either
two star generals or two staradmirals.
Bryan (25:44):
What's what's an SRR? Search And Rescue Region.
Dan (25:47):
Okay. Then they're given to the search mission coordinators.
So search and rescue missionmission coordinators, the SMCs,
which are either coast guardmarine officers or captain
pilots or navs or now air opsofficers who have some sort of
(26:08):
operational experience. And theyhandle and persecute the case by
tasking military assets, butalso by phoning civilian
agencies. They work within theemergency management offices in
the provinces that they're in,they they basically cast a web
to solve a problem.
They're like investigators orproblem solvers. The assistant
(26:31):
that they have is there to dothose phone calls or receive
phone calls and log everythingbecause everything is logged.
Actually talk to the air crew toget their debriefs for searches
that they've done, put itplotted on the map to figure out
where they're gonna task next.Whereas the the strategy and
(26:52):
coordination comes through thatthat captain position who's
actually the air controller orthe marine controller. So the
assistant's job is to assist theair controller in managing a
mission from when they receivethe call and there's some sign
of distress or urgency to eitherfinding it or reducing the case
(27:18):
because of there's no chance ofsurvivability or it's a
humanitarian case and RCMP hadjust asked us to do a
preliminary search or somethinglike that.
Bryan (27:29):
Okay. Really interesting. Good rundown of SAR system.
Dan (27:33):
Yeah. There's there's a lot there. It's it's actually a
really complex system because ithas to work with every level of
civilian agencies that react toemergencies. But it's outside of
the request for civil requestfor aid from military power from
civil authorities. So if there'san ice storm, the province will
(27:56):
declare a state of emergency andwe'll ask for the military to
help and we'll go in droves andwe'll help.
But this is a daily occurrencethat's not reading reaching that
level Right. Where the militarycan actually directly liaise and
work with civilianorganizations. So we'll talk
more about that on on theHirkers or stuff, I'm sure. But
if you think about a medevac, amedevac case, when your case
(28:20):
when you're tasked on that,there's like six different
agencies, military and civilian,that are involved in that. But
the end product is that, youknow, a person gets picked up by
the ambulance either from thehospital or from the that
person's house, brought to amilitary aircraft, and then
flown to a higher level ofservice
Intro/outro (28:41):
Right.
Dan (28:41):
While maintaining their current level of care the whole
way. And that's it's pretty coolthat we can do that.
Bryan (28:46):
Yeah. A 100%. As a young officer, how did you handle the
stress of knowing that liveswere on the line while you were
working?
Dan (28:53):
So to be honest, I didn't really think about that too
much. I was especially in myfirst tour, I was really hyper
focused on trying to become thebest pilot I could be, mastering
the actual tactics and theflying of search and rescue and
understanding what what happenedbehind the scenes.
Bryan (29:11):
But what about in terms of your role while you were at
the rescue coordination center?
Dan (29:17):
Honestly, it wasn't too stressful because we had
processes in place. So I justlearned and followed the
processes and I was neverworking autonomously. So I
always had that missioncontroller who was there. And if
something was out of theordinary or was too delicate,
(29:40):
they normally take that. So Inever felt unsupported or
unprepared to handle the task.
And at the end of the day, whatthey teach you is that it's your
job to give the best servicethat you possibly can, but
you're not responsible for whathappened to that Canadian. So
(30:03):
you didn't get that Canadianlost or you didn't sink that
Canadian's boat, you'reresponsible to give him the best
search and rescue service thatyou possibly can. But even that
is not always going to besuccessful. So you just try to
be a professional the whole timeand do exactly what you're
supposed to do and that givesthem the highest statistical
(30:24):
chance of success.
Bryan (30:25):
Okay. Did working at the RCC inspire you to fly SAR
aircraft? And if so, why?
Dan (30:31):
Yeah. It it definitely did. Before that, I hadn't thought of
search and rescue. And I I hadleaned towards flying the bigger
newer planes like c 17 and jmodel Herx at that time, which
were just entering service. Butit definitely intrigued me
because it's a mission thateveryone can understand and be
(30:55):
motivated to do.
Even someone who is notnecessarily pro military, if you
tell them that you are involvedin search and rescue, they're
gonna say thank you. They're notgonna be political about it. The
goal is just to help Canadiansget home safely to their
families, end stop. So I didthink that that was really cool.
(31:17):
I really enjoyed my time thereand it definitely made me want
to explore that.
Bryan (31:22):
Okay. What key lessons about SAR did you learn at the
RCC that you still use to thisday?
Dan (31:29):
The tactics have not actually changed that much. So
back then it was called theNational Search and Rescue
Manual and now it's called theCanadian Search and Rescue
Manual, the CAMSAR. That'salmost the same as it used to
be. They're they're redoing somestuff now, but stuff that I
studied back in 2009 is stillthings that I was taught on the
(31:51):
HERCO to you or taught on theBuffalo to you many years later.
So a lot of the tactics werevery relevant and it also every
day as an operator, I talk tothose mission coordinators that
work at RCC.
And so I understand what isgoing on on the other side.
Mhmm. So it's really nice tounderstand. It'd be like a
(32:14):
police officer, you know,understanding what's going on in
the dispatcher's role and andwhat they're actually looking
at. It's it's the same kind ofthing.
Bryan (32:22):
For sure.
Dan (32:22):
You can see behind the curtain.
Bryan (32:24):
You have a bit of a more well rounded perspective.
Dan (32:27):
Yeah. You you understand what information they're working
with and kind of what processesthey're going through.
Bryan (32:32):
Yeah. And maybe even some of what they need from you as
well. Yeah. So back to flighttraining, you completed your
phase one flight training andyou've proven that you've got
some potential, but now it'stime to move to a different
world entirely and fly the CTone fifty six Harvard two on
phase two in Moose Jaw. Can yougive us an outline of what this
course consists of?
Dan (32:51):
Yeah. So this is the meat and potatoes course. This is
where they teach you all of theskills that are required and
transferable to every fleet thatyou're gonna fly, whether it's
jets, fixed wing, or rotary. Andyou also have to still do it on
a curve. So they're gonna coverall the basic maneuvers, all the
(33:15):
instrument flight maneuvers,emergency procedure handling,
and the philosophy that we usein the military for handling
emergency procedures, which isthe same on every aircraft that
you ever fly, the whole aviatenavigate communicate concept.
And, you know, they'll they testyou. So you actually have to
(33:37):
work under pressure and you, youknow, you have to be able to
show on a specific day thatyou've mastered what they're
teaching you to the level thatthey need you to teach it or you
need to have learned it to. Andthat's also a very military
concept where it's like, I'mgonna come in today and I'm
gonna expect you to do task x yand zed to this level of
(33:58):
proficiency. And if you can't doit on that specific day, well,
you failed the test and you'vegot to go work on So it was
definitely an eye opener for mebecause it was challenging, but
it was also a blast. It was alot of fun and the Harvard was
and is still a really coolairplane.
Bryan (34:19):
How did you find flying the Harvard?
Dan (34:22):
After I got over the initial like nausea because and
I'm not someone that's ever beenairsick but even for me just the
angle you're sitting on and theengine, it just made me nauseous
for the first couple flights.
Bryan (34:36):
It's super common on the Harvard specifically. I also
felt sick on my first one or twoflights and I'm also not prone
to air sickness at all.
Dan (34:46):
Yeah. I've actually never been air sick in an in an
aircraft, but that's the closestI've ever I've ever been. But
yeah, it's a it's a hot rod. Ifif the globe is a Ferrari, like
this thing is a Rolls Royce withan extra engine and it's pretty
cool. I'd never moved at thosespeeds before and you're going
(35:10):
really fast.
And the 60 and twos that you doin the circuit, that's their
standard way of moving the planearound.
Bryan (35:18):
Right. And that being a 60 degree turn
Intro/outro (35:20):
at two gs. That's right.
Dan (35:21):
Yeah. That's not something I'd ever actually done before.
So it it was definitely eyeopening, but your only job when
you're on that course is tolearn to fly. There's nothing
else required of you. So it wasfull immersion for six months,
study, fly, hang out withfriends, work on studying and
(35:45):
flying and rinse repeat for sixmonths.
Bryan (35:47):
So
Dan (35:47):
I thought it was really awesome.
Bryan (35:49):
It's a fun course. It's a stressful course, but it can be
really fun.
Dan (35:52):
Very stressful. And it's easy to forget this much later
in my career, but I still thinkback to while I was on course, I
would have all of thesecontingency plans. Like, okay,
well, if I fail this test and Idon't make it and I get CT'd
which is c's trained, I'll askto go back and I'll finish my
(36:13):
masters and then maybe I'll getout and I'll I'll be a history
professor. And it's just weirdto be a relatively high
performer. I'd never reallystruggled to pass anything, but
still be thinking of thesebackup plans as like a real
possible.
Bryan (36:29):
Yeah. Well, that's that's moose jaw. Right? Like, even if
you're doing really well, you'reonly ever a couple flights away
from being out, like a couplebad flights away. Yeah.
And you do think about thosethings. You think about like,
what else can I do? What's mybackup plan? Even if even if
you've never struggled before.
Dan (36:47):
Yeah. It was definitely an interesting place but it was
really rewarding and fun. Yeah.
Bryan (36:54):
Now we hinted at this earlier but did you have any
particular challenges whilemaking your way through phase
two?
Dan (37:00):
I do not like formation flying. I did not like it and I
was not very good at it. But Ididn't know that going in. But
then when I actually got in theplane and I got where I thought
was correct and my instructorwas like, no no, you gotta go a
lot closer, closer, closer,closer. I was super
uncomfortable.
So I kept on getting downgradedbecause where I would settle was
(37:22):
like one and a half times wherethey wanted you. And I could
only hold the position wherethey wanted me to for a short
time and then I would slide out.So I barely made the grade and
form.
Bryan (37:32):
Okay.
Dan (37:33):
And it wasn't really due to hands and feet. It was due to
personal limits, would say. AndI just did not like being close
to other aircraft. So that theturning rejoin, which is like a
thing and some people love it,that was like my nightmare. I
hated it.
Bryan (37:48):
So It's pretty hairy the first time you do it. Like a
turning rejoin, how I describethis on an audio format?
Basically, the plane you'rejoining on is in the distance
and you fly an intercept angleon it and it's in a slight turn.
And at the last second as youget the feeling like holy crap,
we're gonna hit, you bank yourplane even more to stop yourself
(38:11):
and then you're on their wing.
Dan (38:13):
Yeah. It'd be like in a single lane roundabout. If you
were trying to acceleratequickly, go faster than another
car that was already in theroundabout, and then end up
beside it in parallel with it.Even though there's not a lane
there and you're not supposed todo that. That's what it felt
like to me the whole time.
It's like, I'm not supposed tobe doing this. Your entire
(38:36):
flying career, you're taughtlook for other aircraft, avoid
other aircraft. If an aircraftis not moving in your
windscreen, it's a problembecause it means you're on a
collision course. Where it's inform, if the aircraft is not
moving in your windscreen,that's great. And it's growing
in your windscreen?
Even better. That's what you'resupposed to be doing. Yeah, I
(38:58):
didn't love form.
Bryan (38:59):
How did you overcome that challenge?
Dan (39:02):
Well, you have to pass in order to pass the course. I
wanted to pass the course. So Iactually had an instructor. I'm
not sure if he's in or not, buthis last name was Power. And he
called himself a form hater aswell, but he was a good
instructor and obviouslyproficient at it.
And he was like, just gotta suckit up for two more flights, just
(39:26):
get your level four and thenmove on so that you never have
to do form in your life again.And if they ask you to be a
fighter pilot, don't do it. Soyeah. So we got through it.
Bryan (39:36):
Okay. What is the biggest lesson you learned from phase
two that continues to influenceyou as a pilot today?
Dan (39:45):
Stress management, resiliency, and sleep
sanitization are just socritical. And by that, mean, I
struggled I struggled with sleepa lot in Moose Jaw
Intro/outro (39:58):
for me the
Dan (39:59):
first time in my life. And we actually they had resources
there, but the biggest changewas just don't work in your
bedroom. Don't study in yourbedroom. Don't use your computer
there so that your bedroom isjust for sleep. And those are
those are skills that I learnedbecause I'd never been in that
much stress before that I Istill employ and teach and teach
(40:24):
my kids to this day.
Bryan (40:28):
Yeah. I can relate to that. I also had a lot of sleep
issues in Moose Jaw for thefirst time in my life And it was
a struggle to be honest. Ididn't really get past it until
I would say phase threeconsistently. And actually even
to this day from time to time,it will still get me.
So that's a tough one for sure.
Dan (40:49):
Yeah. It requires a lot of discipline to realize that the
distress you're under is okayand that you will be able to get
through it. My mantra is like,if something is stressing me out
for tomorrow or there'ssomething that I don't want to
do that I know I have to do, Ijust think to myself, well, do
(41:10):
your best job and in six hours,it's gonna be over. And we can't
stop time so there's no way tostop that. It's like public
speaking.
I don't love public speaking. Itmakes me nervous, but there are
times where you have to stand infront of the unit and deliver
the message, have theconversation, and you just do
(41:32):
it. Then it's done.
Bryan (41:33):
Yeah. When you finished your course, were selected to go
multi engine. Was that what youwanted at the time?
Dan (41:40):
Yes. Especially after it had been pointed out to me that
I was not fit for fighters. Andthe the lifestyle of the
helicopter pilot is notsomething that I that I sought.
Yeah. So, yeah, I I definitelyreally wanted Balty.
Bryan (41:54):
Okay. When you arrived at phase three multi engine
training relaxed than phase two?
Dan (42:01):
Yeah. It was a lot different. No one there was
really concerned about whetheror not they were gonna make it.
It was a when they were gonnapass, and it was about absorbing
as much knowledge while you werethere that you could.
Bryan (42:17):
Yeah. I found the same. I found that phase two is like a
prove yourself type environment,and phase three was more like a
we're gonna prepare you now tobe a professional type course.
Dan (42:30):
Exactly. Yeah.
Bryan (42:32):
How did you like learning to fly the c 90 b king air?
Dan (42:35):
I thought it was really cool. Yeah. I loved autopilot.
That was awesome. I also lovedthe sim because the the Harvard
had a had a simulator but itdidn't move.
Right? And so the the fullmotion sim on on the King Air
was was really neat. Mhmm. And Ifelt a lot better prepared for
emergencies and stuff like that.But just being in an aircraft
(42:59):
that had enough range to be ableto travel across the continent
was really cool.
Bryan (43:08):
Yeah. The King Air is a big step up in a lot of ways,
which is kind of funny becauseit's not like that much bigger.
I mean, is, but it's not huge.It's still in in terms of a
multi engine aircraft, a fairlysmall aircraft.
Dan (43:21):
Yeah.
Bryan (43:22):
But it's just such a big step up. It's the first time
you're dealing with a crewenvironment. I really enjoyed
the King Air. I like you said,the autopilot is nice to have,
especially after all the handflying on the previous courses.
Yeah.
I even like the switches andstuff on the King Air. Like it's
got classic airplane toggleswitches and stuff and
Dan (43:42):
Yep. Absolutely.
Bryan (43:43):
Yeah. Like, the fuel panel is very satisfying. It is.
And, like you said, the sim, isa huge step up. Like, that sim
is is world class and we can docalls and stuff in that sim.
Right?
Dan (43:57):
Yep. Yeah. Absolutely.
Bryan (43:58):
Yeah. So that's you know how good the fidelity is if
you're able to do your yearlyqualifications in a simulator
versus in the real aircraft.
Dan (44:09):
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It's I think it's a really good
platform to transition you tothe operational fleets.
Obviously, as you said, it's nota Herc, it's not an Aurora.
It is a lot smaller, But it'sbig enough that you can employ a
crew concept and you can teachall of the basics that are gonna
(44:30):
transition you really well intothe operational communities. So
I'm sure there's still a biglearning curve for the turbofan
fleets. You know, the the new athree thirty or the c 17, like
that's still a differentaircraft. Mhmm. But any
turboprop, which is most of thecockpits for for multi engine, a
(44:52):
turbo prop is a turbo prop.
Yeah. And it's they're they'refairly similar.
Bryan (44:57):
Yeah. There's depending on the age of them, like, as you
know on on the Herc and I and weknew as with basically the same
engine and prop on the Aurora.There's a difference in the age
of what age of technology it wasdeveloped in for in terms of the
mechanisms of how it works. Butessentially, they they all run
by the same principles.
Dan (45:17):
And I've seen all errors. Like, the the Buffalo was early
sixties technology. The Herc iseighties technology. And the c
90 b is February. Yeah.
'9 nineteen nineties really.
Bryan (45:31):
Yeah. But a lot changed.
Dan (45:32):
Yeah. A p a p t six is a magical
Bryan (45:34):
It's yes. PT six is the engine on, on the King Air, but
it's also the engine in theHarvard on a Pilatus PC 12. It's
one of the most reliable andcommon turboprop engines out
there. Yeah. Yeah.
What did you find was the mostchallenging part of phase three?
(45:56):
Or did you find there weren'tthat many challenges on phase
three?
Dan (45:59):
Yeah. I I didn't find phase three challenging. I found it
really rewarding. Mhmm. It'slike when you get to take an
elective course in universitythat that just piques your
interest and is totally up youralley.
That's what phase three was forme. So it was all really cool,
(46:20):
all super applicable, and Ienjoyed pretty much every aspect
of phase three. Did you
Bryan (46:28):
have any strategies that you employed to kind of keep
yourself ahead so that it didn'tbecome a big challenging
experience?
Dan (46:36):
I chair flew a lot and I still do in my career. So
emergencies and and all of theSOPs when it was, you know, this
happens and then you need to dothis five step process. And if
you don't if you skip a step,you're gonna fail or do it
wrong. And there's there's areason for that. It's it's
safety related.
(46:57):
But for those, would sit in mysit in my room and close my eyes
and visualize and just chair flyall of those procedures. Yeah.
And just go in with a blankslate and try to learn
everything that they wereteaching me.
Bryan (47:10):
Yeah. I'm a huge fan of chair flying. Melissa is
probably going to roll her eyeswhen she edits this to hear me
say this again. But chair flyingis just absolutely critical,
especially within militaryflight training when you're
getting as we've talked about,it's a very efficient process
and you only get so many kicksat the can. So giving yourself
extra essentially extra trainingon your own is crucial.
Dan (47:32):
Well, and it's still it doesn't lose its usefulness once
you're qualified. I'll just saythat because I have a fair
amount of experience and I'vebeen pretty successful. I still
chair fly my emergencies everySunday. I go through them. It
doesn't take long, it only takesten minutes.
But when you have the contextand you understand where all the
(47:53):
switches are and why you'redoing each movement that you're
doing, All you're doing isbuilding the right muscle memory
so that in the in the time youryour bucket is bigger and you
can handle more stress and stilldo the right things.
Bryan (48:04):
Oh, yeah. Running emergencies was something that I
did. I did it daily until I feltreally comfortable with it. And
then, like you said, maybe maybedo it twice a week or once a
week once you're at a stage inin life on the aircraft where
you feel very comfortable. ButYeah.
Something you should never stopdoing.
Dan (48:22):
Yeah. A 100%. Yeah.
Bryan (48:25):
So a big part of phase three is flying through the
mountains on a cross country.You've spent a considerable
amount of time flying in themountains in your career. What
was the biggest lesson youlearned about mountain flying on
phase three?
Dan (48:37):
Yeah. That's a great one actually. And I still remember
the approach into Cranbrook. Andthat's that you need to think
ahead and you need to beproactive. You have to be a
thinking pilot.
You can't be a reactive handsand feet pilot because that's
not enough. So the mountains arebig and they're unforgiving. And
(49:00):
obviously those those lessonsapply to all flying. But when
you're literally 10,000 feethigh on an approach because you
haven't thought things throughand you opted not to do the
shuttle descent that's depicted,you feel pretty foolish.
Bryan (49:15):
Yeah. Yeah. Mountain flying is humbling. It can be
for sure. I'll just say, like,when I came back to begin FIC,
flight instructor course here inPortage, and we did our first
trip into the mountains, I washumbled by the the importance.
Like, you're always doingperformance calculations and
those are always important, butobviously they become absolutely
(49:37):
critical once you're in themountains, like that's what's
going to save your life. There'sjust a lot more planning to be
done. There's a lot morethinking ahead like you said.
And there's a lot of, there's acomfort level that has to be
built. There's a certain levelof trust that the procedures are
gonna keep you safe.
And it's one thing on abeautiful day to fly the
procedures where you can see themountains and it's actually
(49:58):
really a neat experience andyou're getting these incredible
views if you have a moment tolook up. But it's another thing
entirely to maybe see the peakof a mountain poking through the
clouds and then to descend intothose clouds and just trust that
these procedures are going tokeep you from hitting a rock
wall.
Dan (50:15):
Yep. Exactly. And so you better understand the procedures
that you're flying and be aheadof the planes that you don't
deviate.
Bryan (50:23):
Yep. What did it feel like to march up on parade and
get your wings?
Dan (50:28):
Yeah. That was awesome. It was like a a dream come true.
And, you know, it's it was verynostalgic for me as well. Like,
doing cadets, you do a similarMhmm.
Ceremony when you get yourglider swings and when you get
your private pilot's licensewings. Yeah. It felt like the
successful culmination of yearsand years and years of work.
Bryan (50:51):
Yeah. Which it was.
Dan (50:52):
And then they tell you on parade, this is just the
beginning of your journey. Thework starts here. And on parade,
that doesn't really sink in, butit does sink in a few years
later when you're once againstressed and under the gun and
trying to make another upgradeand make it happen.
Bryan (51:10):
Flight training in the military is very cyclical. Every
time you make it, whether that'sgetting your wings or next is
qualifying on your operationalaircraft, and then the next
thing is upgrading to aircraftcommander, and then the next
could be becoming standards oran instructor pilot or whatever.
There's always another iterationof, oh, I made it. Oh, guess
(51:34):
what? There's another level andyou don't know anything yet and
you need to keep your nose tothe grindstone and stay humble
and keep working.
Dan (51:42):
I will say that that process is one of the most
rewarding things that you canhave if you're like me. It's
like a real life RPG. There's noroom to stagnate in your life.
Yeah. You're constantly workingtowards the next upgrade, the
next qualification, the nextthing.
And then in my career, you getto the end, you operate there
(52:04):
for a little bit, then they postyou to a new fleet. And you
start again. And it's faster andit's easier, but you go through
all the process and then theypost you to a new fleet and you
start again and then you get tothe end and it's kind of cool
because I have never in my wasthis twenty years now in the
military? I've never felt like Iwas stagnating. I've always had
(52:27):
a near and long term goal thatI'm working towards.
Mhmm. It's yeah. It's like areal life RPG.
Bryan (52:33):
Yeah. And I think it's it's rare that a career will
provide you with a constantchallenge. And I mean,
obviously, there are careers outthere that will. But Yeah. To
have those goals, to always havesomething that you're working
towards, like, it's a veryfortunate thing to have.
Dan (52:49):
Now now some people hate that. And it's not for
everybody. And so there is roomto slow that down and not be
under the gun and not sufferthat stress your whole career if
you don't want to.
Bryan (53:06):
Well, there's people who stay line pilots on a Yeah.
Squadron or within a fleet theirentire career.
Dan (53:11):
Yeah. Exactly. But there's there is opportunities to switch
things up and challenge yourselfas well. Mhmm.
Bryan (53:19):
So as we've already mentioned, you passed phase
three and were selected to flythe CC one fifteen Buffalo with
four four two transport andrescue squadron in Comox BC. Was
that what you wanted? And if so,why the buff over the c one
thirty Hercules?
Dan (53:33):
Nope. That wasn't what I wanted. My first reaction was
what is the buffalo? Like,didn't really know. I didn't
expect it and but they had aslot and they needed it filled.
And one of the instructors on myphase three was an ex Buffalo
(53:53):
pilot, and then he pulled measide and he's like, hey,
listen. Trust me, you want this.You're gonna be good out there.
Because I had asked for all ofthe Herc fleets and then I had
also asked for c seventeens andI had also asked for Jays. So
Buffalo wasn't even on my topfive.
Yeah. And that's a that's atrend throughout my career. I
(54:15):
have never ever been postedwhere I thought I was gonna be
posted or where I was initiallyasking to get posted and I've
always had just incrediblepostings. And every posting
seems to get better and moreenjoyable. But I think it's with
the energy that you put in iswhat you're gonna receive back
multiplied by a factor.
Bryan (54:35):
A 100%.
Dan (54:36):
So I was grateful to that instructor for pulling me aside.
Basically telling me like, hey,don't be a spoiled brat. You're
gonna like it, enjoy it. And Iwent out there with a good
attitude and it and it was itwas incredible.
Bryan (54:52):
Did you learn during your time as a student on phase three
that influenced how youconducted yourself as an
instructor later in life?
Dan (55:01):
It's that enthusiasm that really matters. So as a student
or even as an officer, thenegative influences or the
people that are kind of ho orwhatever, you generally just
forget about those. You tunethem out and they're just noise
and you do your job and you moveon. But there are a few people
in your career who were reallyenthusiastic or really
(55:25):
passionate, but in the right waythat you will always remember
and and you can take some ofthat motivation and incorporate
it into your own drive. Mhmm.
And I I got to see that on onphase three. There were a couple
instructors that were verypassionate and positive about
what they were doing, And I'vetried to take that and make that
(55:45):
a part of how I interact withsubordinates, how I teach
flying, and just how I am. And Ithink if you're enthusiastic
about something, other peoplewill get excited about it. Even
if that's a week long trip toWinnipeg to fly nights every
single night, if you'reenthusiastic about the
(56:07):
opportunity that you're getting,everyone else on your detachment
is gonna be enthusiastic.
Bryan (56:13):
Absolutely. Yeah. It's up to you to set the tone. Yeah. I
had a standards pilot tell methat when I was upgrading to a
crew commander on the Aurora.
And it's true, like you can showup in the middle of the night
for a flight and say, hey guys,like I know this kind of sucks,
we're all really tired, but youknow, let's push through. Or you
(56:33):
can show up and be like, okayguys, you know, I know we're a
little tired, but tonight's agreat opportunity. We've got a
chance to play with a real subtonight and that's, you know,
and you go from there. Right?
Dan (56:44):
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Always I always joke when we night fly
on the Herc, it's always theactive Sarcrew that's training,
right? And when we land andwe're done, I'm like, okay guys,
I'll see you at three in themorning for a Sarcrow.
Everybody's like, come on. Butif that happens, I've never
(57:04):
really had a sarco thatafterwards I was like, Oh man, I
wish I hadn't done that. It'salways a very rewarding
experience.
Bryan (57:13):
We're down to our last question for this section of our
chat. If you could give astudent who is starting their
flight training today a piece ofadvice, what would that be?
Dan (57:22):
Persevere and stay positive. There's a large body
of work to be accomplished andit's a marathon, it's not a
sprint. So one bad day or onebad week or getting sick and
missing flights or bad weatheror whatever, that's not going to
derail your career. Having agreat attitude and a good work
(57:45):
ethic are going to get you wayfarther than raw talent and
natural skill. So just stickwith it and be resilient.
Resiliency doesn't mean that youdon't get bogged down and you
don't get upset and break down.It means that every time
something beats you down, youget back up. And that's what's
important.
Bryan (58:04):
Yeah. Okay, Dan. That's gonna wrap up part one of our
chat for today. It was great tohear about your time in flight
training and I'm really lookingforward to hearing about your
time in the operational SARworld as well as the future of
SAR and the c two nine fiveKingfisher when we return for
part two. Thanks for being heretoday.
Dan (58:21):
You're welcome.
Bryan (58:23):
Alright. That wraps up part one of our chat with my
good friend, Major Dan Conway,deputy commanding officer of
four thirteen Transport andRescue Squadron and RCAF pilot.
For our next episode, we'llcheck back in with Dan to hear
all about his operationalcareer, including his time on
the Buffalo and the Hercules, aswell as the future of Tsar in
the CC two nine five Kingfisher.Do you have any questions or
(58:45):
comments about anything you'veheard in this show? Would you or
someone you know make a greatguest, or do you have a great
idea for a show?
You can reach out to us at thepilotprojectpodcast@Gmail.com or
on all social media at at podpilot project. And be sure to
check out that social media forlots of great videos of our RCAF
aircraft. As always, we'd liketo thank you for tuning in and
ask for your help with the bigthree. That's like and follow us
(59:08):
on social media, share with yourfriends, and follow and rate us
five stars wherever you get yourpodcasts. That's all for now.
Thanks for listening. Keep theblue side up. See you.
Intro/outro (59:19):
Engineer, shut down all four. Shutting down all four
engines.
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