How does a MARS Officer and Ship’s Team Diver become a Special Operations helicopter pilot? What does it take to get through the intense rigours of Phase III helicopter training — and then make the leap to 427 Special Operations Aviation Squadron?
In this episode, we sit down with Captain Erin Edwards, a SOF Aircraft Commander, recipient of the prestigious Elsie MacGill Award, and currently serving as a CAPCOM at NASA in Houston.
We explore her remarkable journey through the Canadian Armed Forces — from her early days at sea to commanding aircraft with Special Operations Forces. Erin shares personal stories of perseverance, leadership, and what it truly means to earn your place among the best.
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Intro/Outro (00:30):
Fuel and ignition switches. On. RPM switches. Set.
PD switches.
Normal. Doors and hatches.Closed. Lay down. Stroblade.
On. Research check-in. Completewith your left. Engineer. Start
number two.
Starting to. Wing three one zeroten, pilot project podcast.
(00:50):
Clear takeoff, Runway 31 left.
Bryan (00:58):
Alright. We're ready for departure here at the pilot
project podcast, the best sourcefor stories and advice from RCAF
and mission aviation pilotsbrought to you by Skies
Magazine. I'm your host, BrianMorrison. With me today is
captain Aaron Edwards, aCanadian capsule communicator or
CAPCOM currently working withNASA and winner of the 2024 LC
McGill award. Erin, welcome tothe show, and thanks so much for
(01:18):
being here.
Erin (01:20):
It's a pleasure. Thank you so much.
Bryan (01:22):
So today for part one of our chat with Erin, we're going
to talk about her journeyworking in the naval reserve and
flying with four two sevenspecial operations aviation
squadron. We'll also beexamining the theme that has
been present throughout Erin'scareer that is that anything is
possible. But before we jumpinto any of that, let's go
through Erin's bio. Erin Edwardswas born in Port Moody, British
Columbia. She enrolled in thenaval reserves in 2010 as a
(01:45):
maritime surface or Mars officeras a member of HMCS Discovery in
Vancouver, British Columbia.
She completed her ship's teamdiving officer qualification in
2012 and Mars four training in02/2013. During her naval
service, she was awarded theGrouse Memorial Award for
professionalism at sea and theWelland Shield for leadership.
Erin transferred to the RoyalCanadian Air Force as a pilot in
(02:06):
late two thousand thirteen.Having held a private pilot's
license since 02/2002, Erinearned her military wings in
2016 and was awarded the PortageLa Prairie award for
professionalism in hergraduating class. She was then
posted to four two seven specialoperations aviation squadron in
Petawawa, Ontario to fly the CHone forty six Griffin
helicopter.
She completed special operationstactical aviation course
(02:28):
selection in 02/2019. During herposting, Erin participated in
operational deployments as apilot and flight safety officer.
She deployed to Iraq in 2020 and2021 flying the CH one forty six
Griffin amassing over 300 combathours and earning the general
campaign star expedition medalwith bar for her overseas
service. She also served as fourtwo seven squadron's flight
(02:49):
safety officer, standards andtraining flight operations
officer, and created the spaceliaison officer position while
completing a master's in spacescience. In 02/2023, Erin was
posted to the Johnson SpaceCenter in three Canadian space
divisions billet as the firstever Canadian astronaut
coordination officer.
She was quickly appointed asNASA's deputy branch chief for
crew operations, the first timea non astronaut has held this
(03:12):
position. She and her smallstaff are responsible for
roughly 50 NASA andinternational astronauts
currently not assigned to aspecific mission while providing
direct support to the CanadianCorps of Astronauts in Houston.
Erin is also qualified as a NASAcapsule commander, the critical
voice link between theastronauts aboard the
International Space Station andthe technical control team on
the ground. Her qualificationmarks the first time a non
(03:34):
astronaut Canadian has held thisvital position in mission
control. For her efforts andtremendously impactful work well
beyond the original scope ofthis new position, Erin was
awarded the Northern Lights AeroFoundation's LC McGill award in
2024 in the government category.
In what little spare time shehas, Erin reminds herself that
she is human by playing rugby,cycling, struggling with space
(03:54):
related Lego, or reading a goodbook with a coffee. Alright. So
let's jump into it and talkabout your career. So you lived
a couple lives before youmanaged to get into the RCAF as
a pilot, but what sparked yourlove of aviation?
Erin (04:08):
You know, I think you'd probably have to go back and
like ask my mom maybe, becauseapparently it's always been
since I was a kid. Mygrandfather was a Spitfire pilot
in the second world war, butapparently I've just always had
an interest in planes androckets and that kind of thing.
Might be my brother's fault too.He was kind of into that stuff,
but I ended up joining the AirCadets at age 12 and that kind
(04:31):
of just spurred my interest evenmore. So I think it started when
I was pretty young.
Bryan (04:36):
Yeah. That's awesome. It's kind of in your blood
almost with that familyheritage.
Erin (04:40):
Yeah. I'm pretty lucky that way.
Bryan (04:42):
So as part of your time in cadets, you got your pilot's
license in 02/2002. How did thatearly achievement influence your
career aspirations?
Erin (04:49):
Yeah. Good question. It wasn't a given. I had to work
really hard in the Air Cadetprogram because they really
emphasized academics. I as muchas I tried, I wasn't a stellar
student all the time.
So I tried to make sure thateverything else I was doing in
cadets was making up for some ofthose little deficiencies here
and there. I didn't get myglider scholarship when I first
(05:10):
applied. So I had one year leftbefore I had to age out and I'd
put however many years intotrying to get that scholarship.
But when I finally got it andwas able to get my private
pilot's license, I think itreminded me or showed me that
even though there are somethings that are going to be
difficult for me, namely math,that if you put your mind to it,
you can actually achieve thosethings. So it gave me a tiny bit
(05:33):
of confidence.
I've never been a particularlyconfident person, but that was
like the first step that allowedme to sort of think that, hey,
like if I work hard enough, Icould probably actually make
this happen for myself. So itwas important that way.
Bryan (05:46):
That's pretty transformative to have that
experience. And I think that'ssomething that a lot of people
who join cadets can relate to.Like, that organization really
gives you a sense of confidenceand a sense of, hey, I can take
on challenges. I can do hardthings. If I put my mind to
this, I can accomplish it.
Erin (06:03):
Yeah. I totally agree. It was a fantastic program. And I
think what was helpful too is itfelt like if you put in a 100%,
you'd get that same amount back.And I wasn't quite seeing that
with school and academics.
I saw it with sports a littlebit, but the program would meet
you exactly where you were andwould reward you for effort and
putting in extra time. So Ithought it was a good way to
(06:25):
kind of set my foundation, Ithink, growing up.
Bryan (06:27):
Yeah. I had a very similar experience going through
the flying scholarship programin Air Cadets. And the first
year I did it, I was a littleyoung. I think I was 15 maybe.
And it was challenging.
A lot of the academics were kindof over my head, but I said,
okay. I obviously, I didn't getselected that year. I said,
okay, I'm going to work hard andcome back to the next year. And
then I was able to put in thatwork and it paid off. So I
(06:50):
totally agree.
Can you tell us about yourcareer before you joined the
military?
Erin (06:55):
Yeah. It's definitely random. I think if anyone
actually looked at my resume,they'd be like, this isn't the
same person. But my firstapplication to the air force
didn't I wasn't successful. So Idecided, well, I still had this
kind of super far off aspirationof being an astronaut.
That'd been a thing I'd wantedto do since I was quite young.
(07:16):
So I'm like, well, not allastronauts are pilots. There are
some astronauts maybe that aregeologists. So I decided maybe
going into a geology relatedtrade would be an interesting
job. I also liked physicalsciences and it was a little bit
easier than trying to become amedical doctor or something like
that.
So I ended up working in themining industry for a few years,
(07:37):
mostly on the environmentalreclamation side, but I did a
fair bit of time away in reallysmall camps, picking up samples
and doing sample lines andorganizing all that kind of
stuff as a technical manager forsome of these companies. And it
was really interesting workbeing up in the middle of
nowhere sometimes with somereally hilarious geologists. So
I did that for a little bit. Andthen I had this idea to, I
(08:01):
guess, exercise the other sideof my brain. I actually ended up
opening and owning a smallclothing store and an art
gallery in Downtown Vancouver atthe same time.
Bryan (08:10):
No way.
Erin (08:11):
Yeah, apparently I always like to be busy. So it was a
good way I'm realizing now asmuch as carrying a little bit of
debt from a store during arecession when I had to close it
wasn't the greatest idea, andalso then losing my job and
mining because of that wholething. But what I realized is
that through deciding to open abusiness, having a vision, and
(08:31):
then creating that physically inyour environment and making it
happen is another skillset thatactually comes in handy. It's
not always directly relatable.I'm never going to own a store
again.
But taking your vision andmaking that happen is a skill
set that I don't think I wouldhave exercised otherwise. So my
life was a little strange, Iguess you might say, before I
joined the military, hanging outin Downtown Vancouver, involved
(08:52):
in the arts community a fair bitwhile also working in geology.
But all of those experienceshave a way of coming back. And
then I figured maybe it was timeto look for something else and
ended up joining the NavalReserve in 2010.
Bryan (09:07):
Yeah. That's so interesting. So I didn't know
that about the store, which iscrazy. And I guess there's a
theme there, like you said, thatyou do like to be busy because I
imagine you were already fairlybusy with the geology gig. And
you also mentioned that that waskind of you were trying to think
of, like, career paths that maylead to being in the space
field.
So I guess even back then, thatwas already a goal.
Erin (09:28):
Yeah. It was. And obviously, open opening an art
gallery wasn't really on thepath to entering space. But I
think during the recession, orjust before the recession in
02/2007, 02/2008, I was justtrying to find things to do to
occupy me that I foundchallenging. So working in
geology certainly was one path,but with the recession, I didn't
(09:50):
really feel like that was a paththat I'd be able to continue on.
So I kind of reevaluated where Iwas at that time in my 20s and
the Naval Reserve seemed like aninteresting option. I had
applied again to pilot, but Iwent to aircrew selection, but
didn't hear back. So I decidedto, you know what, give the Navy
a try. They do some interestingstuff too. So it was an
(10:12):
interesting way to get into themilitary, all these sort of
twists and turns, but I learneda lot in the Naval Reserve and I
am actually fairly thankful Istarted there, I think.
I think some of the skills Ilearned becoming a Mars officer
and going through that wholetraining process in 2010 through
2012 or so put me in good steadto be successful when I was
(10:35):
stressed out trying to do flighttraining later on.
Bryan (10:38):
Yeah, I can believe that for sure. Before we jump into
your time in the Navy, would yousay there was any lessons you
carried forward from this partof your career with owning a
shop, working in geology, andthat you carried forward into
your military life?
Erin (10:51):
Yeah. Time management, probably. Time management. And
to be honest, anyone who's everworked in geology or in that
field before knows that thereare all kinds of characters that
are attracted to working ingeology. And you find yourself
in a camp with 12 people in themiddle of nowhere, below the
Arctic Circle.
And you learn how to get alongwith pretty much anyone in very
(11:12):
interesting circumstance. Soworking on a boat with people or
working in an aircraft kind ofoverseas in camp kind of
environment, I think thoseskills to be honest are probably
some of the most applicable. Andthen obviously time management
from when I was working fulltime and also owning a store,
trying to keep everythingtogether. So yeah.
Bryan (11:32):
Oh, man. That must have just been crazy.
Erin (11:34):
Might be why I have so much gray hair now. I'm not
sure.
Bryan (11:39):
So as you mentioned, you started life in the military in
the naval reserve in 02/2010.Why did you join the navy, and
what trade did you join us?
Erin (11:47):
Yeah. So the navy was not something I'd ever considered
before because I was always allabout the air force and planes
and really jets, which isinteresting. We can talk about
that later since I ended upflying helicopters and they're
way better. Yeah, the NavalReserve was actually presented
to me as an option at therecruiting center and I didn't
know much about it, but thefellow that was helping me with
(12:10):
my application said, You knowwhat, being a Mars officer is
just like being a pilot, but ona boat. I'm like, All right,
that sounds kind of interesting.
So I ended up joining HMCSDiscovery in Vancouver. And the
Mars officer trade sounded kindinteresting to me because you're
responsible essentially for allthe operational aspects of a
ship at sea. So whether it'snavigating or officer of watch,
managing the flex on theschedule, whether you're doing a
(12:32):
special evolution or somethinglike that, it seemed like a
really interesting job that wasvery varied And the training
seemed kind of cool too. Soyou're working a lot with, I
think they call it Eckpins, itmight be the same thing, but the
navigational system and tryingto fight a ship and all of the
other things you're supposed tolearn as a Mars officer seemed
pretty cool. And I didn'tdislike boats.
I mean, I am from Vancouver. Igrew up on the coast. So it
(12:54):
seemed like a really neat way tospend a few weeks out of the
year as a reservist. And I endedup getting a lot out of that
training. HMC at Discoverytreated me really well and I
made some really cool friendsand met some really amazing
mentors on ship as well.
So it ended up being a reallyuseful experience.
Bryan (13:11):
It's interesting. So I've heard this before and you
mentioned that the recruitersaid this, that being a Mars
officer is like being a pilot ofthe ship. Once you actually
experienced it, do you thinkthat that was accurate?
Erin (13:22):
Not quite. It was effective though at getting me
to sign on the dotted line, butyou are definitely a manager of
several systems and you'reworking with a crew. So there
are some similarities. I don'tactually drive it, that's the
helms person's job, but you'remanaging where you're going, if
you're going to be there on timeand making sure we're going at
the right speed and managing allthe systems as well through the
(13:44):
various people that areresponsible for motor room and
that kind of thing. Anddefinitely the aspect of working
as a member of a crew issimilar, but not quite like
flying a helicopter.
Bryan (13:56):
Yeah, that's fair. But there are skills that overlap to
an extent.
Erin (14:00):
A 100%. I think, like I said, I'm not sure I would have
been successful in flighttraining if I hadn't learned how
to how to work as a member of ateam when you're super tired in
the middle of the night in on aship.
Bryan (14:12):
Yeah. So at this point, that was two unsuccessful
attempts to join the RCAF. Whatdid you learn from this
experience?
Erin (14:20):
That honestly, you can categorize those as failures and
just never try again, or you cantake that information, learn
from it and try a differentpath. And I think that's also
been a bit of a common themethroughout my life is my first
attempt at something might notbe successful. Kind of like I
didn't get the power scholarshipthe first time I applied for it
in cadets. It took me threetries to get into the air force
(14:42):
over eight years, but that'sokay. We got there eventually,
but some of the doors thatopened because I didn't get that
thing the first time were superbeneficial.
So I like to sort of nowcategorize failures as
opportunities, definitely,because there's some things that
you learn if you actually sitdown and take a look at what's
(15:04):
going on around you that theremight be other opportunities if
you allow yourself to see thatand just kind of work past a
little bit of that ego hit. Soyeah, not great that it took
forever, but at the same time, Idon't think I would have changed
the path that I took to get towhere I am today. I think I've
learned too much in thesedifferent paths that I had to
get here. So they've all beenbeneficial.
Bryan (15:23):
Well, it's such an interesting story too. And you
have such varied experiencesbecause of it. You know, it's a
recurring theme on this showthat I just hear this over and
over again from guests thatthese unexpected turns in your
career are often some of thebest things that could have
happened to you. And it soundslike that's true for you as
well.
Erin (15:40):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Bryan (15:42):
So during your time with HMCS Discovery in Vancouver,
British Columbia, you completedyour ship's team diving officer
qualification. What did thattraining involve and how are
ship's divers employed?
Erin (15:53):
Yeah. So that was an option that came up that we
could try and attempt the ship'steam diving course. I thought it
sounded pretty cool. Divers, atleast the ship's team divers are
responsible for a little bit ofport security and then whatever
maintenance that might berequired, a lot of hull cleaning
as well. And on occasion, ifsomeone drops something
(16:13):
overboard that we have toretrieve, you go do that as
well.
But you also do some very, verybasic, at least we used to learn
how to remove certain types ofmines from the hulls of ships as
well. So the whole processseemed interesting. But I think
what I was most interested in asmuch as I love diving was the
aspect that the course wasphysically quite demanding as
well. And I've always enjoyedsports and I've liked to push
(16:36):
myself. And so it felt like thiswould be a good opportunity to
kind of get two things.
One, learn something cool aboutdiving and two, challenge myself
as a relatively small individualhauling around a couple dive
tanks and all your weights andstuff. So it was, I think it's
five or six weeks. I don'trecall. It's a long time ago
now. And I remember a lot ofrunning, a lot of yelling, a lot
(17:00):
of cheese and Oreos as BMS.
Bryan (17:02):
And for the audience, BMS is just between meal supplement.
Erin (17:06):
And a lot of swimming, but the course was pretty awesome.
We had some sweet staff and thefolks on the course were really
cool too, but they put youthrough your paces for sure to
make sure, especially as anofficer, ship's team diving
officer, that you are aware ofthe fact that you're responsible
for the safety of your divers insome pretty tricky situations.
(17:27):
It's not without risk havingdivers below the water working
under a vessel. And that was agood way too that I realized
sort of afterwards and like,Hey, I never really had
leadership skills that I wasaware of before, but you kind of
start to learn these on the wayon courses like that, where it's
put into focus for you that,Hey, these young divers are your
(17:48):
responsibility and make sure youare dotting your Is and crossing
your Ts. I will say though, I'mstill not a very good swimmer.
I wasn't a very good swimmer onthe course. I was a good runner,
so I'd always go back and helppeople during the run. But there
was a couple folks that wouldalways come back and help me on
the swim so I wasn't by myselfas the last person coming in all
the time. But you definitelylearn how to work as a team. All
(18:11):
suffered together and each of ushad our own sort of skills and
weaknesses.
And my weakness for whateverreason is still surface
swimming, but I passed a swimtest here at NASA. So I'm
allowed to dive in the bigresearch pool that they have
here, but it was still astruggle. So just something
about my body type. We're justnot built for swimming.
Bryan (18:33):
That sounds very intense. Like, there's a lot more to that
than I would have thought, to behonest. I didn't realize there
was such a process to becomequalified as a diver. Like, I
knew there would be the thediving training, but I didn't
realize there would be so muchof the physical training, and it
it sounds like essentially aselection.
Erin (18:49):
I mean, to a certain extent, I think they wanted you
to understand that diving is isnot an easy trade. Like
clearance divers, importinspection divers are on a whole
another level, but ship steamdiving is still quite difficult
and the conditions can bechallenging too. I remember
doing an ice dive in Kingstonactually in a dry suit. And even
though I had as much fleece as Icould fit under the dry suit, it
(19:11):
was still super And I rememberthinking, I don't know how I'm
supposed to complete this task.I can't remember what it was we
were doing, but my hands weregetting super cold.
So they just want to make surethat you're physically set and
ready to do your job. So it wascool. But yeah, it definitely
pushed me to a differentphysicality than I was expecting
(19:32):
out of a course. And I reallyenjoyed that aspect of it too. I
will say the morning swims andsome of, I can't repeat them
here, but some of the things thePOs would say to encourage you
to swim faster are things Istill chuckle about today.
And I'm still in contact with acouple of those divers. Yes, I
remember one of them sayingsomething about not needing a
(19:52):
stopwatch. I was so slow in thewater, they needed a sundial and
there's a bunch of expletivesaround that. But learning to
push yourself in difficultcircumstances when you're really
tired, like it's just anotherskill set that you have. I ended
up diving a little bit after Iwas qualified, but I transferred
shortly after that, but it'sstill something I'm pretty proud
of because I didn't think Iwasn't always sure I'd be able
(20:15):
to pass it.
It was I just found it achallenging course.
Bryan (20:18):
So you mentioned diving for things that people drop off,
like drop overboard. Are wetalking about, like, hey. I
dropped my car keys, or are wetalking about, like, hey. I
dropped a really expensive pieceof equipment overboard.
Erin (20:31):
The only time I was involved in that was, hey. I
dropped the ceremonial sportoverboard. But Then there's a
surprising number of golf ballsin Harbor. I had no idea. I
don't know what people are doingin Esquimalt there, but, there's
tons of interesting things inthe bottom of Esquimalt Harbor.
That's for sure.
Bryan (20:50):
Yeah. I bet. So during your naval service, you were
awarded the Grouse MemorialAward for professionalism at sea
and the Welland Shield forleadership. Can you tell us what
each of those are and why youwere awarded them?
Erin (21:02):
Yeah. Good question. That's a while ago now, but the
most professional at sea, Isuppose, was something that
keeps coming up as I tend to bea bit of a team mom, I guess,
whenever I'm away with a course,just trying to make sure
everyone has what they need,everyone's squared away,
everyone has their taskscomplete in a day. And if they
(21:23):
need help, I'd always offer tohelp out as much as I could. And
I think that maybe was justrecognized by the folks that,
you know, I'm always aroundasking if people need help and
making sure the team is takencare of.
That seems to be a bit of athing that I'm always doing. I'd
still do it now. And the otheraward for leadership, I think
(21:44):
was the same thing. They were indifferent years, different parts
of my training, but kind ofsimilar in that the division
that I was in, I always tried tomake sure that people had help
and had everything done thatthey needed to have done. And if
we were getting behind to helpthem out as much as I could.
So honestly, I think it justcame down to what I do
naturally, which is to make surethe people around me have what
they need to get their theirstuff done. And if they need
(22:06):
assistance, I'm always around ifI can make myself available.
Bryan (22:09):
Yeah. That's interesting. It sort of reminds me recently I
was doing an interview withcolonel Dan Coutts, the wing
commander of fifteen Wing MooseJaw. He was talking about this
concept of servant leadershipwhere you're really looking
after the needs of yourfollowers. And it sounds sort of
very similar.
Erin (22:24):
It sounds like the commander's a lot more eloquent
than I am about that. But, yes,I think it's the same concept.
You want your team to perform atits best. And the best way you
can do that is to make sureeveryone has everything that
they need to do that, whetherit's time or equipment or
training or assistance, whateverit happens to be. I think I take
that responsibility prettyseriously as a leader.
Bryan (22:45):
Yeah. I think that's that's huge. So around that same
time, you finished your Marsfour training. Can you explain
to us what exactly that meansand why you consider it to be a
milestone in your career?
Erin (22:56):
Yeah. Absolutely. So the training scheme for Mars
officers, which are now calledNaval Warfare Officers, think
it's NWO is what they go by now,it was a pretty challenging
course. I think I'd mentioned alittle bit before that
academically, I'd always had towork really hard in high school
and in college. And it was nodifferent with Mars training
either.
There was a lot of academicslearning the laws of the sea and
(23:19):
passing arrangements betweendifferent vessels. You had to
know pretty much the entire AOIsof the ship as well. So kind of
like you memorize your red andyellow pages and that kind of
thing for an aircraft, you haveto memorize pretty much how most
of your ship works as well andbe able to explain it during
your interviews and your boardinterviews. But essentially that
job prepared us through variousphases to be able to take the
(23:43):
watch and safely navigate avessel in piloted waters. So
meaning not out in the openocean, but sort of in the
complicated waters aroundCoastal BC here, where there's a
lot of islands, there's a lot ofshipping lanes and all that kind
stuff.
And it's fairly complicatedbecause we're not talking about
being able just to evade andmaneuver away from a larger ship
or any ship really, like you'retalking about a ship that's a
(24:04):
few 100 tons and a couple 100feet long, right? So learning to
safely do that, and there's awhole whole long list of things
you have to know was super hard.And there's also a lot of
emergency training you do aswell. You have to learn how to
manage, both manage and put outfires on ship, which are never a
pleasant experience. There's awhole thing called damage
(24:26):
control school that you gothrough where you actually fight
a propane fire inside a metalcage kind of thing and learn how
to do all that kind of stuff.
But by the end of Mars four,you're considered competent to
have the watch and represent thecaptain on the bridge. And it's
a big responsibility and I foundit challenging because of how
academically heavy it was. Therewas a lot of tests, there was a
(24:49):
lot of doing mental math inpublic on the bridge, trying to
figure out how you're going tomaintain your track when you're
being blown around or travelingat whatever speed. So that was
always fun. So I was proud ofthat because it wasn't a given
that it was always gonna passeach of those testing scenarios.
They were very challenging. Andagain, this concept of sort of
(25:10):
learning to be a little bit moreconfident when you're managing
multiple emergencies on a bridgeand you're being assessed as a
person who's kind of runningthat, you have to sort of step
into yourself and realize that,okay, I have the training, I
have the skills, now's the timefor me to show the rest of the
crew that I have the confidenceto lead them through this as
well. So there was a lot of meworking outside of areas where
(25:31):
I'm comfortable. I don't likedoing mental math in public and
I am not super confident, butslowly over time you learn those
skills and you kind of grow intoyourself. So the Mars training
that I did, I feel like in a lotof ways prepared me well to move
into different aspects of theCanadian Armed Forces.
So as much as I wasn't planningon joining the Navy, it turned
(25:53):
out to be a very beneficialexperience for me in lots of
different ways.
Bryan (25:57):
It sounds like a huge responsibility. I I just wanna
clarify. When you say itqualifies you to take the watch,
that basically is you being theofficer in charge of the ship in
that time? Like, I obviously notin command of the ship, but in
terms of, like, at that time,the buck stops with you.
Erin (26:13):
So at the time so because I I left before I could do my
bridge watch keeper certificate,there were some aspects that I
couldn't control. So thecommanding officer would kinda
leave you with parameters orarcs that you were allowed to
move in.
Bryan (26:27):
Okay.
Erin (26:27):
So I think I had, like I could have 10 knots of speed
change, and I think it was up to10 degrees either side for
heading changes to avoid othervessels. And if I couldn't
manage some kind of conflictwith another vessel because
slowly we're approaching eachother and there's rules you're
supposed to follow to make sureyou don't smash into each other,
you'd come up with a plan andthen call down to the captain.
(26:48):
It could be in the middle of thenight. They're probably sleeping
and say, this is my plan. Yougive them a block report and
they'd either say yay or nay ortell you why on earth would you
tell me to do that terribleplan, come up with another one.
But yeah, that's kind of yourjob is the buck stops with the
captain, but you're representingthat person on the bridge when
you have to watch. And so it's abig responsibility. There's
(27:11):
always someone there to back youup. The captain is on the ship
or the XO or a senior Marsofficer. But when you're
learning, it's a bigresponsibility.
It's not your ship, it'sCanadian ship and it's a minor
war vessel. I was on theminesweepers, the Kingston
class. So I thought it was a bigresponsibility and I took that
pretty seriously.
Bryan (27:31):
Yeah, for sure.
Erin (27:31):
Especially at night.
Bryan (27:33):
Yeah, no kidding. Yeah. How would you say your time
learning to work as a teamonboard Canadian Navy ships has
contributed to your success?
Erin (27:41):
Similar to all of the interesting characters and cats
that I work with in geology.Whenever you're on a ship, you
encounter a lot of interestingpersonalities as well. And I'd
say on a Minesweeper, there'sonly about 30 to 40 people at
any one time, they're smallerships, but there's always
personalities you don'tnecessarily get along with, but
(28:01):
you respect each other and thatyou're both sailors and you're
both trying to do a job. So Ithink one of the best skills
that I learned was learning towork with people that were very
different to me without gettingfrustrated. Like maybe we didn't
see eye to eye on everything,but at the end of the day, we're
still serving the same country.
We're still trying to do thesame job and you find a way to
(28:22):
work through that. And so Ithink the team aspect, the crew
aspect of working with the Navywas really, really important for
me. Because prior to that,hadn't, I mean, aside from
playing on some sports teams andbeing in cadets, I had no real
concept of what that was likeworking in a team like that in
the military. So I think theNavy was definitely really good
(28:46):
for building that skillset.
Bryan (28:49):
So around this time you applied to the RCAF again, what
prompted you to apply once againafter your Mars four training
and what was that experiencelike?
Erin (28:57):
Yeah. I applied just before the my Mars four
training, so that last sale. Andwhat I had essentially told
myself is I'm gonna give myselfone more shot at this whole
pilot thing. So I've alwayswanted to do that. If it doesn't
work out, that's fine.
I'm really enjoying what I'mdoing with the Navy. Maybe I'll
consider doing this full time.Maybe I'll get turbo jacked and
become like a clearance diver ortry and do that. So I was
(29:19):
looking at making the Navy afull time career, but I also
felt like I would regret it if Ididn't try one more time.
Bryan (29:27):
Yeah.
Erin (29:28):
And so I applied and then it turns out that they had
offered me a contract, but forsome reason I just never got the
call or the email or something.
Bryan (29:37):
Are you serious?
Erin (29:38):
Yeah. So I had done aircrew selection, I never heard
back and I had passed, butthat's when I ended up joining
the Navy instead. So my trainingofficer at the time, I think
he's a Lieutenant Commander,might be a commander now on the
East Coast. At the time he was atraining officer and he just
kind of like dug into it alittle bit and it turns out
there was some kind of clericalerror and my name and service
(29:59):
number and contact informationwas with a different Aaron
Edwards or something like that.So he found the message that was
cut and said, You're within atimeframe that's allotted if you
wanna do a transfer right now,we can do that.
And I'm like, Seriously? So I'mlike, Well, okay, that's rad. I
knew I had been selected, but Ididn't hear back. So I figured
that they didn't want me. Andhe's like, No, that was a
(30:21):
clerical error.
And you are more than welcome totake your transfer now if you
want. And then that's whathappened. I decided to take my
transfer, thanked HMCS Discoveryvery much and made my way to
Seneca College.
Bryan (30:36):
That's crazy. So you were still within like the time chunk
that that that offer was stillgood?
Erin (30:41):
I didn't have to redo aircrew selection. Yeah. So I
just I just applied for for atransfer at that time from the
reserves to the reg force. So Igot lucky.
Bryan (30:50):
That's awesome.
Erin (30:51):
And, like, no offense to the yeah. No offense to the
recruiting section at that time.They were moving buildings from,
like, Downtown Vancouver toanother town. So I would imagine
that would have been a totalnightmare for them. It's just
one of those things thathappens.
Bryan (31:03):
Oh, for sure. And, I mean, the recruiting centers are
handling an immense amount offiles at all times. Like, I
imagine they're under quite abit of pressure.
Erin (31:11):
Yep. If I were more confident, I probably would have
just called back and not notwaited a year or two years, but
that's okay.
Bryan (31:18):
That's a that's a wild story. So as we've said, you
were successful in your bid tojoin the RCAF. Did you do phase
one training or did you bypass?
Erin (31:28):
Nope. I didn't bypass. I think at the time I maybe had a
hundred and eighty hours as aprivate pilot, I was put on an
accelerated version of phaseone. I don't know if they do
that anymore. I think theyassume like, Hey, you probably
know which way the wheels aresupposed to face when you're
(31:49):
flying.
So you probably don't need theextra three hours or something
like that. But I did phase one,but even though I was a private
pilot, I didn't think it wasgoing to be super easy because
I'd never flown something withretractable gear and flying an
ancient 172 means that I'd neverflown something as fast as a
GROBE 120 Alpha either.
Bryan (32:05):
For sure.
Erin (32:06):
And the military flying environment in the RCF was
definitely new and it may havebeen self imposed stress, but I
found it a little stressful. SoI didn't take anything for
granted and made sure I was ontop of my studying and pretty
much if I had to relearnsomething to not worry that it
(32:26):
was different than about what Imaybe learned as a PPL out in
like Courtenay, BritishColumbia. But the solo was
definitely pretty cool. I'mlike, this is a neat plane. I
should remember to put the geardown, though.
Bryan (32:38):
Yeah. And I think what you've said, though, is great
advice for anyone who arrives inRCAF flight training with some
previous flight experience.Like, basically, be humble about
the experience you have. Beready to learn to do it the air
force's way, and you're gonnabasically give yourself as
little self imposed grief aspossible.
Erin (32:55):
Oh, 100%. I think you're very correct in saying that.
What what was great about havingflown before was that I was a
little bit better maybe at thevery beginning in terms of
building an air picture and I'dflown a pattern and that kind of
stuff. But I'd never doneaerobatics before. I don't
remember really doing practiceforce landings the way the Air
Force does things.
(33:15):
The parameters for your PPL werea little bit looser than the
parameters you had to maintainon phase one because they were
starting to push you towardsthat concept of maintaining very
tight parameters. So I'm like,okay. I have like you said, be
humble. I have a lot to learn.It's a privilege to be here.
Let's just let's just make surewe land this thing correctly.
Bryan (33:36):
Did you do phase two on the Harvard two or the Grove?
Erin (33:39):
I got fortunate because I was part of the Seneca program.
It was a very, very fast pacedand kind of a fixed syllabus for
us to have to go back and forthbetween phase training and
school. So in order for us tomake it back to school on time,
we were put over onto theHarvard in Moose Jaw and very
(34:00):
quickly pushed through thatcourse in order to meet our next
timing. So it was a lot to takein, but I enjoyed the Harvard.
But again, it was a superhumbling machine when you've
come from a 120 Alpha and acouple hundred hours on the
Cessna, and now you're flyingsome insane turboprop on an
ejection seat.
(34:21):
So I was fortunate that I got toexperience Woose Jaw in all its
glory in the winter and also getto fly the Harvard two.
Bryan (34:30):
The Harvard two is such a joy to fly. It's just such a
powerful, sleek machine. AndI've always said that I think
it's kind of like the closestyou can get to flying almost a
World War two Warbird in modernday. Like, it's just such a cool
plane.
Erin (34:44):
Yeah. It was my I still remember my first flight on the
Harbour. I can't remember who Iwas with, but I remember feeling
g as he accelerated for thefirst time down the runway. I'm
like, this is somethingdifferent. This is gonna be rad.
I didn't really enjoy doing IFin that machine, but I really
(35:04):
enjoyed the navigation phase andthe, the aerobatic phase for
sure. Yeah. IFR is a little bitless fun for me.
Bryan (35:13):
Right. Yeah. And I IFR being instrument flight rules.
Erin (35:16):
Correct.
Intro/Outro (35:16):
Yeah.
Bryan (35:17):
I'm curious. Did you get queasy at all in your early
flights? I know I did a littlebit on the Harvard.
Erin (35:21):
I think the first flight, there is something to do with
the the flicker and sun the sunat a certain angle. So maybe the
very first flight, but, I mean,thankfully, I never got seasick
either. So maybe I'd becomeaccustomed to that. But
Bryan (35:35):
Lucky.
Erin (35:36):
I don't like. Yeah, negative G is still kind of an
awkward thing for me for sure,but not too bad.
Bryan (35:43):
Yeah. I do get questions every now and then from
listeners about air sickness andstuff. And I know back at least
when I went through, they had anair sickness course they'd send
people on. Luckily, I only hadbasically on my first flight
felt a little bit queasy, butthey do have a course they send
people on, I believe. Was thatstill on when you were there?
Erin (36:00):
Yeah. They couple folks that I ended up working with at
four twenty seven had gonethrough the Harvard and a couple
of them had ended up on the airsickness course. And they said
it was the worst torture they'veever experienced, but at least
they got to fly after and they'dnever been sick after that. So
it's definitely something thatyou can inoculate yourself to.
(36:20):
It's not pleasant, but they werecertainly dedicated to wanting
to get that phase finished.
So they went and sufferedthrough it.
Bryan (36:27):
Yeah. I've heard that too. It's kind of like
Buckley's, like it's terrible,but it works.
Erin (36:32):
Exactly.
Bryan (36:34):
Did you have any particular challenges on phase
two?
Erin (36:37):
So many challenges. Phase two is a difficult course.
Bryan (36:40):
It is.
Erin (36:40):
It's a it's a long course. It's a complicated aircraft, and
it's the bulk of your militaryflight training as well. So
phase one was difficult becauseyou're trying to maintain
yourself on that learning curve.But in phase two, they're
literally teaching you how to bea military pilot. It's the bulk
of your basic flight trainingthat you do.
So not only is the aircraftcomplicated, you don't have a
(37:05):
lot of chances for redos ifsomething happens. So I, again,
had to work very, very hard forthe academic phase. That was
pretty challenging for me. I'msomeone who really likes to
study the manuals and learn allthat stuff. And I felt like I
(37:25):
didn't I always just didn't havequite enough time to get the
level of understanding that Ifelt like I wanted to give me
good context for how this wassupposed to work in the
aircraft.
I always felt like there was alittle bit of a discrepancy
between what I was able to do inthe aircraft and my
understanding of what was goingon until later in the And so the
IF phase was difficult for me,but I found that the navigation
(37:50):
phase felt a little bit morecomfortable. I was getting
fairly comfortable withnavigating, obviously from the
Navy and some other things I haddone in my life, but aerobatics
was super awesome. But IF was athorn in my side. And it almost
cost me the course actually, Ihad a tough time with that. But
the course ended up being onhard mode because of that, but
no more EDs, just make itthrough extra duals as they call
(38:13):
them.
So phase two was challenging fora lot of reasons, not the least
of which were personal. I wasgetting divorced at the time as
well. So not a fun thing to dowhile you're on phase two, but
the staff were supportive andthe course was really tight as
well. So we all just kind ofmade sure everyone had what they
needed. And I just spent a lotof extra time in the simulator
(38:34):
after hours when we had accessto it to make sure I could at
least get to a point where I wascomfortable with the IF stuff.
Bryan (38:43):
Yeah. I was gonna ask how you overcame that, but that's
really a great way to do it isjust get those reps in during
what little spare time you have.Get those extra simulator
sessions booked if you feel youneed them. Like, definitely, you
can't sit back and be kind ofcomplacent if you feel like you
have shortcomings on thatcourse.
Erin (38:58):
Absolutely not. And you can also ask your staff. I think
a lot of people think that thestaff are there only to assess
you. And what I found was, youknow, I put my hand up sort of
probably later than I shouldhave and said, I I need help
with this. I'm obviously notunderstanding it.
Here's what I think Iunderstand. And then went to the
staff and they're like, You knowwhat? There's just one small
(39:20):
thing that's not clear. Whydon't I explain it in this way?
And so utilize the staff aswell.
Like do your own preparation andtry your best. Use your team
first, but the staff are thereto teach you as well. So I was
very fortunate that I had somefolks like Kevin Domon Grenier
and Sarah Delaire. They wereboth snowbirds at one point
later on. They were fantasticinstructors and actually
(39:41):
everyone that was at Moose Jawwas super helpful.
And they took time if you askedso long as they knew you were
also doing your own preparation.But I cannot overstate how
important it is to ask for helpearly and identify early too if
you have weaknesses that you'reaware of, is to get help with
those you know, quickly so youdon't get behind. And that's I
(40:01):
think that's the thing thathurts people on that course is
they wait too long and then thatgap is just too big to try and
close.
Bryan (40:08):
Yeah. People I think are a little afraid almost to show I
don't wanna I don't know if it'sweakness exactly, but they don't
wanna highlight theirshortcomings because I think
like you said, they feel likethey're always being assessed.
But if there's one thing I'velearned from getting to know
instructors either through thispodcast or just friends of mine
here at Portage who areinstructing, they really care
about the students succeeding.And like across the board, if I
(40:31):
ask them, like, what's the mostsatisfying part of your job?
It's watching your students growand learn and succeed.
So absolutely, if you're outthere, you're listening, you're
a student right now, you're aprospective student in the RCF
flight training system, don't beafraid of your instructors.
They're they are a resource andthey wanna help you.
Erin (40:48):
100%. And I think this carries on into your operational
flying as well. I would alwaysmuch rather work and fly with a
person in an operationalcapacity that understands their
limitations is willing to askfor help than someone who's
like, I'll just do it and maybeI'll figure it out. I don't want
the I will maybe in certainoperational contexts. I want to
know if you know where yourweaknesses are so we can work
(41:11):
together to address them andvice versa.
It's up to us to be vulnerableabout that to make sure that
we're good to go operationally.So start that work early, I
guess, a piece of advice I have.
Bryan (41:21):
Yeah. I I 100% agree with that. There's nothing more
uncomfortable than that feelingof like winging it
operationally. That's not aplace you want to put yourself,
and that's not a place you wantto see other crew members
putting themselves either. Sothat's a that's a good piece of
advice for sure.
So you had mentioned an interestin jets. You were selected helos
(41:45):
at that time. Was that what youwanted?
Erin (41:48):
So I think given that it was so much work just to get
through the course that I Ihonestly was just happy that I
had passed phase two at thispoint. And I had been toying
with the idea of like, hey.Like, I was in the navy and I'm
from the West Coast. Maybe itwould be sweet to actually work
in maritime Hilo because Ididn't know that was really an
option until I was in the navy.
Bryan (42:09):
Okay.
Erin (42:09):
There was so much about the CAF that I had I had
blinders on too because I thinkjust given the air the nature of
the air cadet program, theyreally at least where I was,
like, everyone was reallyinterested in jets and that kind
of stuff. And my own interest inin space was obviously very
heavily skewed towards jetpilots and that kind of stuff.
Abbotsford Air Show didn't helpeither. But as my phase training
(42:33):
progressed on phase two, one ofmy flight commanders is actually
a former four twenty seven pilothimself. And he said, Listen, I
don't know why I know this, butI feel like you have the right
brain for four twenty seven.
You should think about that. I'mlike, I don't know what that
means, but helicopters arestarting to seem kind of cool.
And they had a couple folks fromdifferent communities come by.
(42:53):
And I mean communities as inmaritime helo search and rescue
and attack hell. And four twoseven came by and a couple of
the four two seven people, Iwish I remember who they were,
but they were talking about whatthey did with the Bell four
twelve.
And I'm like, that isimpossible. There's no way that
you guys do that. That's crazy.I didn't know you could do that
with a helicopter. And so Ithink those interactions with
(43:15):
people in the variouscommunities is honestly more or
less what started to switch myinterest.
Fighters are great. I think it'sa fantastic platform. They have
a very specific mandate. That'sawesome. But I think I was
starting to become lured to thedark side of helos given the
descriptions of what some ofthose folks were able to do with
(43:37):
the machines and they seemedkind of cool.
So I figured, you know what? I'mhappy to Honestly, I'll be happy
with anything I'm selected for.I don't really have a heavy
preference at this point. I'mjust happy to be offered a job
in the Canadian Armed Forces asa pilot. So I had an interest
more or less in helicopters atthat point, but when it came to
selection, I think I had justdecided, you know what?
(43:58):
Everything's gonna be anadventure. If they decide
they're gonna put me on multiengine or whatever, it's because
that's the best match for myskill, and we'll go with that.
But it turned out I was selectedfor helicopters, and that's
where I went.
Bryan (44:11):
That's such a great attitude to have. I have seen
kind of both sides of that coin.I've seen people who get
selected something differentthan what they were hoping and
they absolutely melted down. AndI think even in some cases
released. Yeah.
I've also seen people like youwho are basically like, hey, I
have certain preferences, but atthe end of the day, I'm grateful
to have a great job that isgonna be exciting. And I I
(44:34):
personally think there's no badflight deck in the Canadian
Armed Forces. I think that theyall have their their interesting
facets. And I don't think youcan really get a bad posting in
terms of flying in the RCAF.
Erin (44:48):
No. And I I understand that some people have some
pretty significant familyconsiderations. I didn't at the
time. Mhmm. So I was happy withanything.
But I think I think there areopportunities with with every
potential posting you get in theCAF as a pilot. So I was gonna
be happy with anything eitherway.
Bryan (45:05):
For sure. So you got through phase three Hilo in
Portage La Prairie, and ongraduation, you received the
Portage La Prairie award forprofessionalism. What do you
think set you apart to receivethis award?
Erin (45:16):
I don't know. I think it was a I think it was a canteen
setup that I had. There was alot of snacks available to
people when I was a cantino. Butno, same thing as before, we had
a relatively small class, but alot of us were on tight
timelines to get to other thingslike back to college. So it was
a stressful course, but the samekind of thing applied that I'd
(45:38):
learned in the Navy.
You try and help your friends.They would help me because I
still don't like IF. So I hadfriends in the simulator help me
out with that and vice versa. Ifsomeone needed help with
planning, just make yourselfavailable to people to help out.
And I guess maybe that's justsomething I do a little bit more
noticeably.
I don't know if it's noticeableor what, but I'm not sure. I
(46:01):
didn't nominate myself, otherfolks did, but I think it's just
me being me. It just happened tobe something that was beneficial
to the whole course.
Bryan (46:08):
It sounds like this is I mean, this is kind of a
recurring theme. Right? Like, ifwe look back at your naval
service and the awards youreceived there, it sounds like
sort of like you said, it's youbeing you. This is a kind of a
part of your personality thattends to shine through and get
noticed.
Erin (46:22):
Right.
Bryan (46:24):
Now we've talked about you getting selected to fly
Tackhill to fly VCH one fortysix Griffin, and that
specifically you were selectedto go to four two seven Special
Operations Aviation Squadron,which is part of Canadian
Special Operations ForcesCommand or CANSOFCOM. When did
that start to be a goal for you?
Erin (46:42):
So after phase two and we went over to start phase three,
I'd been thinking a little bitabout some of the mandates that
these various communities have,because as much as the flying is
fun, I wanted the mandate forthe community to kind of match
what I wanted to do. And it wasreally important for me to get
(47:02):
as much operational kind ofoverseas experience as quickly
as possible. Not because I wasolder than most of the
applicants, but I was about tento twelve years older than some
of these folks at the time. ButI felt that was going to be the
best way for me to put all ofthis stuff I'd finally kind of
got together and learned. And Iwas eager to go test it out and
(47:22):
kind of consolidate those skillsoverseas.
And so tac health started tobecome very interesting to me
because of the potential todeploy very quickly. And April
mandate specifically in terms ofresponding to things on very
short notice sounded veryinteresting to me. It sounded
like it was just the right kindof challenge they wanted. And
(47:45):
they were looking for peoplethat were sort of nontraditional
thinkers or could think kind ofabstractly and had done a bunch
of different stuff in their lifeand like, Hey, I owned a
clothing store and an artgallery. I was in the Navy.
I've done a bunch of randomweird stuff. Maybe this will be
a good fit. And I was able toget a little bit of help
contacting some folks that hadflown there and talked to them
(48:05):
about what it was they weredoing and how they liked it. And
I felt like, hey, this mightactually be a really good fit
for my super weird personalitythat likes to do all kinds of
weird stuff at the same time andbe really busy. So I put my
notice of intent in, whichessentially starts the
application process.
They kind of do a deep dive intoyour military background and
(48:28):
will offer you a selection spot.At the time we had a flying
selection as well, which I wasworried about because with the
way my training had kind ofgone, we went back and forth
between face training and thenschool at Seneca College in
Toronto. So when I put my NOIin, I actually hadn't flown in
(48:50):
three semesters, however longthat ends up being. And when you
graduate phase three, you don'thave too many hours. I'm like,
okay.
Well, I'll apply. Chances areI'm not gonna get this because I
haven't flown for very long andalso I only have eighty hours or
whatever on this machine. Butthey invited me out for an
interview, a year psychevaluation, and then a flight
(49:10):
test or a flight evaluation. AndI honestly just showed up
already thinking, I'm not goingto get selected. The other
person that was there with mehad a lot more experience that
was doing the selection at thesame time.
So I'd sort of decided I'm goingto get as much information and
sort of enjoy myself as much aspossible and ask a bunch of
questions. This is a super neatexperience to have in Petawawa,
(49:30):
I'll never do this again. And itprobably remains to this day,
probably because I decided thatthere was no pressure, I wasn't
gonna get selected anyway, thatit was my best flight. I had
never flown that well in myentire life. And I was flying
with a fellow who's very wellknown in the community for being
(49:51):
one of our best pilots.
They're all fantastic, but thisperson has helped us build a lot
of our tactics. So I felt likeit was a super cool experience.
I'd never flown with a flightengineer in the back conning me
onto a tower before. So I'mlike, that's a really fun
experience. I appreciate youguys taking the time out of your
day and all that of stuff.
And then I'll just go back toschool and I'll figure out where
(50:11):
I get posted after that. Andthen I got a call a couple weeks
later and then a postingmessage. I was super surprised,
but I think it was just goinginto it, not overconfident, but
more or less like this is alearning opportunity as much as
it is anything else. And I don'tknow. I guess it worked out.
Bryan (50:30):
Well, it kinda like you said helps like, you sort of
removed a lot of the selfimposed pressure that a lot of
people go into those situationswith?
Erin (50:38):
Yep. So I removed the self imposed pressure by presupposing
the outcome. That doesn't mean Iwasn't prepared. I I there was I
didn't really know how toprepare for an interview and a
flight test that I didn't knowanything about. So I probably
went overboard by trying to getahold of a checklist because I'd
never actually flown a CH-one146.
(50:58):
I'd flown the the four twelve CFin training. So I learned the
red pages and the white pagesbecause a friend gave me a
checklist and then went over theprocedures for PET that I could
find and did a deep dive intofour twenty seven and Ken
Softcom's background. At least Iwas as prepared as I could be.
Typical Aaron Edwards,
Intro/Outro (51:16):
This is
Erin (51:16):
what I do all the time. It's a little bit much. So I
wanted to make sure that if Iwasn't selected, which probably
wasn't gonna happen, that atleast I'd done everything in my
power to be ready and I hadnothing to regret at that point.
So that's kind of how Iapproached it.
Bryan (51:31):
I think that's a good approach to a lot of different
flight training opportunities. Iremember at Moose Jaw, a turning
point for me was when Irealized, like, I'm just gonna
do my best and leave it all onthe table and real and then that
way, if this doesn't work out,at least I can walk away and
say, I tried my hardest. It justwasn't meant to be.
Erin (51:50):
Yeah. Absolutely. And I don't my biggest fear in life is
getting to my deathbed andhaving regrets. And those
regrets being, I just didn't tryhard enough. Yeah.
That's not what I want. So youmight as well just put it all
out there, see if it happens.And if it doesn't, at least then
you know where to start from torecover from that. Right?
Bryan (52:09):
For sure. Okay, Erin, that's gonna wrap up part one of
our chat for today. I reallyenjoyed learning about your
career and I'm excited to hearmore about what you are doing
down in Houston when we continueon part two. So thank you for
being here today.
Erin (52:21):
Thank you.
Bryan (52:23):
Okay. That wraps up part one of our chat with captain
Erin Edwards, a Royal CanadianAir Force captain who is
currently working with theCanadian Space Agency and NASA
down in Houston. For our nextepisode, we'll be reconnecting
with Erin to talk all about herexperiences in the operational
world with four two sevenspecial operations aviation
squadron, as well as thebeginning of the discussion of
her time in Houston. Do you haveany questions or comments about
(52:45):
anything you've heard in thisshow? Would you or someone you
know make a great guest, or doyou have a great idea for a
show?
You can reach out to us at thepilotprojectpodcast@Gmail.com or
on all social media at at podpilot project. And be sure to
check out that social media forlots of great videos of our RCAF
aircraft. As always, we'd liketo thank you for tuning in and
ask for your help with the bigthree. That's like and follow us
(53:07):
on social media, share with yourfriends, and follow and rate us
five stars wherever you get yourpodcasts. That's all for now.
Thanks for listening. Keep theblue side up.
Intro/Outro (53:16):
See you. Engineer, shut down all four. Shutting
down all four engines.
This podcast is presented by Skies Magazine. If
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Skies is your go to multimediaresource for the latest news,
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Intro/Outro (00:30):
Fuel and ignition switches. On. RPM switches. Set.
PD switches.
Normal. Doors and hatches.Closed. Lay down. Stroblade.
On. Research check-in. Completewith your left. Engineer. Start
number two.
Starting to. Wing three one zeroten, pilot project podcast.
(00:50):
Clear takeoff, Runway 31 left.
Bryan (00:58):
Alright. We're ready for departure here at the pilot
project podcast, the best sourcefor stories and advice from RCAF
and mission aviation pilotsbrought to you by Skies
Magazine. I'm your host, BrianMorrison. With me today is
captain Aaron Edwards, aCanadian capsule communicator or
CAPCOM currently working withNASA and winner of the 2024 LC
McGill award. Erin, welcome tothe show, and thanks so much for
(01:18):
being here.
Erin (01:20):
It's a pleasure. Thank you so much.
Bryan (01:22):
So today for part one of our chat with Erin, we're going
to talk about her journeyworking in the naval reserve and
flying with four two sevenspecial operations aviation
squadron. We'll also beexamining the theme that has
been present throughout Erin'scareer that is that anything is
possible. But before we jumpinto any of that, let's go
through Erin's bio. Erin Edwardswas born in Port Moody, British
Columbia. She enrolled in thenaval reserves in 2010 as a
(01:45):
maritime surface or Mars officeras a member of HMCS Discovery in
Vancouver, British Columbia.
She completed her ship's teamdiving officer qualification in
2012 and Mars four training in02/2013. During her naval
service, she was awarded theGrouse Memorial Award for
professionalism at sea and theWelland Shield for leadership.
Erin transferred to the RoyalCanadian Air Force as a pilot in
(02:06):
late two thousand thirteen.Having held a private pilot's
license since 02/2002, Erinearned her military wings in
2016 and was awarded the PortageLa Prairie award for
professionalism in hergraduating class. She was then
posted to four two seven specialoperations aviation squadron in
Petawawa, Ontario to fly the CHone forty six Griffin
helicopter.
She completed special operationstactical aviation course
(02:28):
selection in 02/2019. During herposting, Erin participated in
operational deployments as apilot and flight safety officer.
She deployed to Iraq in 2020 and2021 flying the CH one forty six
Griffin amassing over 300 combathours and earning the general
campaign star expedition medalwith bar for her overseas
service. She also served as fourtwo seven squadron's flight
(02:49):
safety officer, standards andtraining flight operations
officer, and created the spaceliaison officer position while
completing a master's in spacescience. In 02/2023, Erin was
posted to the Johnson SpaceCenter in three Canadian space
divisions billet as the firstever Canadian astronaut
coordination officer.
She was quickly appointed asNASA's deputy branch chief for
crew operations, the first timea non astronaut has held this
(03:12):
position. She and her smallstaff are responsible for
roughly 50 NASA andinternational astronauts
currently not assigned to aspecific mission while providing
direct support to the CanadianCorps of Astronauts in Houston.
Erin is also qualified as a NASAcapsule commander, the critical
voice link between theastronauts aboard the
International Space Station andthe technical control team on
the ground. Her qualificationmarks the first time a non
(03:34):
astronaut Canadian has held thisvital position in mission
control. For her efforts andtremendously impactful work well
beyond the original scope ofthis new position, Erin was
awarded the Northern Lights AeroFoundation's LC McGill award in
2024 in the government category.
In what little spare time shehas, Erin reminds herself that
she is human by playing rugby,cycling, struggling with space
(03:54):
related Lego, or reading a goodbook with a coffee. Alright. So
let's jump into it and talkabout your career. So you lived
a couple lives before youmanaged to get into the RCAF as
a pilot, but what sparked yourlove of aviation?
Erin (04:08):
You know, I think you'd probably have to go back and
like ask my mom maybe, becauseapparently it's always been
since I was a kid. Mygrandfather was a Spitfire pilot
in the second world war, butapparently I've just always had
an interest in planes androckets and that kind of thing.
Might be my brother's fault too.He was kind of into that stuff,
but I ended up joining the AirCadets at age 12 and that kind
(04:31):
of just spurred my interest evenmore. So I think it started when
I was pretty young.
Bryan (04:36):
Yeah. That's awesome. It's kind of in your blood
almost with that familyheritage.
Erin (04:40):
Yeah. I'm pretty lucky that way.
Bryan (04:42):
So as part of your time in cadets, you got your pilot's
license in 02/2002. How did thatearly achievement influence your
career aspirations?
Erin (04:49):
Yeah. Good question. It wasn't a given. I had to work
really hard in the Air Cadetprogram because they really
emphasized academics. I as muchas I tried, I wasn't a stellar
student all the time.
So I tried to make sure thateverything else I was doing in
cadets was making up for some ofthose little deficiencies here
and there. I didn't get myglider scholarship when I first
(05:10):
applied. So I had one year leftbefore I had to age out and I'd
put however many years intotrying to get that scholarship.
But when I finally got it andwas able to get my private
pilot's license, I think itreminded me or showed me that
even though there are somethings that are going to be
difficult for me, namely math,that if you put your mind to it,
you can actually achieve thosethings. So it gave me a tiny bit
(05:33):
of confidence.
I've never been a particularlyconfident person, but that was
like the first step that allowedme to sort of think that, hey,
like if I work hard enough, Icould probably actually make
this happen for myself. So itwas important that way.
Bryan (05:46):
That's pretty transformative to have that
experience. And I think that'ssomething that a lot of people
who join cadets can relate to.Like, that organization really
gives you a sense of confidenceand a sense of, hey, I can take
on challenges. I can do hardthings. If I put my mind to
this, I can accomplish it.
Erin (06:03):
Yeah. I totally agree. It was a fantastic program. And I
think what was helpful too is itfelt like if you put in a 100%,
you'd get that same amount back.And I wasn't quite seeing that
with school and academics.
I saw it with sports a littlebit, but the program would meet
you exactly where you were andwould reward you for effort and
putting in extra time. So Ithought it was a good way to
(06:25):
kind of set my foundation, Ithink, growing up.
Bryan (06:27):
Yeah. I had a very similar experience going through
the flying scholarship programin Air Cadets. And the first
year I did it, I was a littleyoung. I think I was 15 maybe.
And it was challenging.
A lot of the academics were kindof over my head, but I said,
okay. I obviously, I didn't getselected that year. I said,
okay, I'm going to work hard andcome back to the next year. And
then I was able to put in thatwork and it paid off. So I
(06:50):
totally agree.
Can you tell us about yourcareer before you joined the
military?
Erin (06:55):
Yeah. It's definitely random. I think if anyone
actually looked at my resume,they'd be like, this isn't the
same person. But my firstapplication to the air force
didn't I wasn't successful. So Idecided, well, I still had this
kind of super far off aspirationof being an astronaut.
That'd been a thing I'd wantedto do since I was quite young.
(07:16):
So I'm like, well, not allastronauts are pilots. There are
some astronauts maybe that aregeologists. So I decided maybe
going into a geology relatedtrade would be an interesting
job. I also liked physicalsciences and it was a little bit
easier than trying to become amedical doctor or something like
that.
So I ended up working in themining industry for a few years,
(07:37):
mostly on the environmentalreclamation side, but I did a
fair bit of time away in reallysmall camps, picking up samples
and doing sample lines andorganizing all that kind of
stuff as a technical manager forsome of these companies. And it
was really interesting workbeing up in the middle of
nowhere sometimes with somereally hilarious geologists. So
I did that for a little bit. Andthen I had this idea to, I
(08:01):
guess, exercise the other sideof my brain. I actually ended up
opening and owning a smallclothing store and an art
gallery in Downtown Vancouver atthe same time.
Bryan (08:10):
No way.
Erin (08:11):
Yeah, apparently I always like to be busy. So it was a
good way I'm realizing now asmuch as carrying a little bit of
debt from a store during arecession when I had to close it
wasn't the greatest idea, andalso then losing my job and
mining because of that wholething. But what I realized is
that through deciding to open abusiness, having a vision, and
(08:31):
then creating that physically inyour environment and making it
happen is another skillset thatactually comes in handy. It's
not always directly relatable.I'm never going to own a store
again.
But taking your vision andmaking that happen is a skill
set that I don't think I wouldhave exercised otherwise. So my
life was a little strange, Iguess you might say, before I
joined the military, hanging outin Downtown Vancouver, involved
(08:52):
in the arts community a fair bitwhile also working in geology.
But all of those experienceshave a way of coming back. And
then I figured maybe it was timeto look for something else and
ended up joining the NavalReserve in 2010.
Bryan (09:07):
Yeah. That's so interesting. So I didn't know
that about the store, which iscrazy. And I guess there's a
theme there, like you said, thatyou do like to be busy because I
imagine you were already fairlybusy with the geology gig. And
you also mentioned that that waskind of you were trying to think
of, like, career paths that maylead to being in the space
field.
So I guess even back then, thatwas already a goal.
Erin (09:28):
Yeah. It was. And obviously, open opening an art
gallery wasn't really on thepath to entering space. But I
think during the recession, orjust before the recession in
02/2007, 02/2008, I was justtrying to find things to do to
occupy me that I foundchallenging. So working in
geology certainly was one path,but with the recession, I didn't
(09:50):
really feel like that was a paththat I'd be able to continue on.
So I kind of reevaluated where Iwas at that time in my 20s and
the Naval Reserve seemed like aninteresting option. I had
applied again to pilot, but Iwent to aircrew selection, but
didn't hear back. So I decidedto, you know what, give the Navy
a try. They do some interestingstuff too. So it was an
(10:12):
interesting way to get into themilitary, all these sort of
twists and turns, but I learneda lot in the Naval Reserve and I
am actually fairly thankful Istarted there, I think.
I think some of the skills Ilearned becoming a Mars officer
and going through that wholetraining process in 2010 through
2012 or so put me in good steadto be successful when I was
(10:35):
stressed out trying to do flighttraining later on.
Bryan (10:38):
Yeah, I can believe that for sure. Before we jump into
your time in the Navy, would yousay there was any lessons you
carried forward from this partof your career with owning a
shop, working in geology, andthat you carried forward into
your military life?
Erin (10:51):
Yeah. Time management, probably. Time management. And
to be honest, anyone who's everworked in geology or in that
field before knows that thereare all kinds of characters that
are attracted to working ingeology. And you find yourself
in a camp with 12 people in themiddle of nowhere, below the
Arctic Circle.
And you learn how to get alongwith pretty much anyone in very
(11:12):
interesting circumstance. Soworking on a boat with people or
working in an aircraft kind ofoverseas in camp kind of
environment, I think thoseskills to be honest are probably
some of the most applicable. Andthen obviously time management
from when I was working fulltime and also owning a store,
trying to keep everythingtogether. So yeah.
Bryan (11:32):
Oh, man. That must have just been crazy.
Erin (11:34):
Might be why I have so much gray hair now. I'm not
sure.
Bryan (11:39):
So as you mentioned, you started life in the military in
the naval reserve in 02/2010.Why did you join the navy, and
what trade did you join us?
Erin (11:47):
Yeah. So the navy was not something I'd ever considered
before because I was always allabout the air force and planes
and really jets, which isinteresting. We can talk about
that later since I ended upflying helicopters and they're
way better. Yeah, the NavalReserve was actually presented
to me as an option at therecruiting center and I didn't
know much about it, but thefellow that was helping me with
(12:10):
my application said, You knowwhat, being a Mars officer is
just like being a pilot, but ona boat. I'm like, All right,
that sounds kind of interesting.
So I ended up joining HMCSDiscovery in Vancouver. And the
Mars officer trade sounded kindinteresting to me because you're
responsible essentially for allthe operational aspects of a
ship at sea. So whether it'snavigating or officer of watch,
managing the flex on theschedule, whether you're doing a
(12:32):
special evolution or somethinglike that, it seemed like a
really interesting job that wasvery varied And the training
seemed kind of cool too. Soyou're working a lot with, I
think they call it Eckpins, itmight be the same thing, but the
navigational system and tryingto fight a ship and all of the
other things you're supposed tolearn as a Mars officer seemed
pretty cool. And I didn'tdislike boats.
I mean, I am from Vancouver. Igrew up on the coast. So it
(12:54):
seemed like a really neat way tospend a few weeks out of the
year as a reservist. And I endedup getting a lot out of that
training. HMC at Discoverytreated me really well and I
made some really cool friendsand met some really amazing
mentors on ship as well.
So it ended up being a reallyuseful experience.
Bryan (13:11):
It's interesting. So I've heard this before and you
mentioned that the recruitersaid this, that being a Mars
officer is like being a pilot ofthe ship. Once you actually
experienced it, do you thinkthat that was accurate?
Erin (13:22):
Not quite. It was effective though at getting me
to sign on the dotted line, butyou are definitely a manager of
several systems and you'reworking with a crew. So there
are some similarities. I don'tactually drive it, that's the
helms person's job, but you'remanaging where you're going, if
you're going to be there on timeand making sure we're going at
the right speed and managing allthe systems as well through the
(13:44):
various people that areresponsible for motor room and
that kind of thing. Anddefinitely the aspect of working
as a member of a crew issimilar, but not quite like
flying a helicopter.
Bryan (13:56):
Yeah, that's fair. But there are skills that overlap to
an extent.
Erin (14:00):
A 100%. I think, like I said, I'm not sure I would have
been successful in flighttraining if I hadn't learned how
to how to work as a member of ateam when you're super tired in
the middle of the night in on aship.
Bryan (14:12):
Yeah. So at this point, that was two unsuccessful
attempts to join the RCAF. Whatdid you learn from this
experience?
Erin (14:20):
That honestly, you can categorize those as failures and
just never try again, or you cantake that information, learn
from it and try a differentpath. And I think that's also
been a bit of a common themethroughout my life is my first
attempt at something might notbe successful. Kind of like I
didn't get the power scholarshipthe first time I applied for it
in cadets. It took me threetries to get into the air force
(14:42):
over eight years, but that'sokay. We got there eventually,
but some of the doors thatopened because I didn't get that
thing the first time were superbeneficial.
So I like to sort of nowcategorize failures as
opportunities, definitely,because there's some things that
you learn if you actually sitdown and take a look at what's
(15:04):
going on around you that theremight be other opportunities if
you allow yourself to see thatand just kind of work past a
little bit of that ego hit. Soyeah, not great that it took
forever, but at the same time, Idon't think I would have changed
the path that I took to get towhere I am today. I think I've
learned too much in thesedifferent paths that I had to
get here. So they've all beenbeneficial.
Bryan (15:23):
Well, it's such an interesting story too. And you
have such varied experiencesbecause of it. You know, it's a
recurring theme on this showthat I just hear this over and
over again from guests thatthese unexpected turns in your
career are often some of thebest things that could have
happened to you. And it soundslike that's true for you as
well.
Erin (15:40):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Bryan (15:42):
So during your time with HMCS Discovery in Vancouver,
British Columbia, you completedyour ship's team diving officer
qualification. What did thattraining involve and how are
ship's divers employed?
Erin (15:53):
Yeah. So that was an option that came up that we
could try and attempt the ship'steam diving course. I thought it
sounded pretty cool. Divers, atleast the ship's team divers are
responsible for a little bit ofport security and then whatever
maintenance that might berequired, a lot of hull cleaning
as well. And on occasion, ifsomeone drops something
(16:13):
overboard that we have toretrieve, you go do that as
well.
But you also do some very, verybasic, at least we used to learn
how to remove certain types ofmines from the hulls of ships as
well. So the whole processseemed interesting. But I think
what I was most interested in asmuch as I love diving was the
aspect that the course wasphysically quite demanding as
well. And I've always enjoyedsports and I've liked to push
(16:36):
myself. And so it felt like thiswould be a good opportunity to
kind of get two things.
One, learn something cool aboutdiving and two, challenge myself
as a relatively small individualhauling around a couple dive
tanks and all your weights andstuff. So it was, I think it's
five or six weeks. I don'trecall. It's a long time ago
now. And I remember a lot ofrunning, a lot of yelling, a lot
(17:00):
of cheese and Oreos as BMS.
Bryan (17:02):
And for the audience, BMS is just between meal supplement.
Erin (17:06):
And a lot of swimming, but the course was pretty awesome.
We had some sweet staff and thefolks on the course were really
cool too, but they put youthrough your paces for sure to
make sure, especially as anofficer, ship's team diving
officer, that you are aware ofthe fact that you're responsible
for the safety of your divers insome pretty tricky situations.
(17:27):
It's not without risk havingdivers below the water working
under a vessel. And that was agood way too that I realized
sort of afterwards and like,Hey, I never really had
leadership skills that I wasaware of before, but you kind of
start to learn these on the wayon courses like that, where it's
put into focus for you that,Hey, these young divers are your
(17:48):
responsibility and make sure youare dotting your Is and crossing
your Ts. I will say though, I'mstill not a very good swimmer.
I wasn't a very good swimmer onthe course. I was a good runner,
so I'd always go back and helppeople during the run. But there
was a couple folks that wouldalways come back and help me on
the swim so I wasn't by myselfas the last person coming in all
the time. But you definitelylearn how to work as a team. All
(18:11):
suffered together and each of ushad our own sort of skills and
weaknesses.
And my weakness for whateverreason is still surface
swimming, but I passed a swimtest here at NASA. So I'm
allowed to dive in the bigresearch pool that they have
here, but it was still astruggle. So just something
about my body type. We're justnot built for swimming.
Bryan (18:33):
That sounds very intense. Like, there's a lot more to that
than I would have thought, to behonest. I didn't realize there
was such a process to becomequalified as a diver. Like, I
knew there would be the thediving training, but I didn't
realize there would be so muchof the physical training, and it
it sounds like essentially aselection.
Erin (18:49):
I mean, to a certain extent, I think they wanted you
to understand that diving is isnot an easy trade. Like
clearance divers, importinspection divers are on a whole
another level, but ship steamdiving is still quite difficult
and the conditions can bechallenging too. I remember
doing an ice dive in Kingstonactually in a dry suit. And even
though I had as much fleece as Icould fit under the dry suit, it
(19:11):
was still super And I rememberthinking, I don't know how I'm
supposed to complete this task.I can't remember what it was we
were doing, but my hands weregetting super cold.
So they just want to make surethat you're physically set and
ready to do your job. So it wascool. But yeah, it definitely
pushed me to a differentphysicality than I was expecting
(19:32):
out of a course. And I reallyenjoyed that aspect of it too. I
will say the morning swims andsome of, I can't repeat them
here, but some of the things thePOs would say to encourage you
to swim faster are things Istill chuckle about today.
And I'm still in contact with acouple of those divers. Yes, I
remember one of them sayingsomething about not needing a
(19:52):
stopwatch. I was so slow in thewater, they needed a sundial and
there's a bunch of expletivesaround that. But learning to
push yourself in difficultcircumstances when you're really
tired, like it's just anotherskill set that you have. I ended
up diving a little bit after Iwas qualified, but I transferred
shortly after that, but it'sstill something I'm pretty proud
of because I didn't think Iwasn't always sure I'd be able
(20:15):
to pass it.
It was I just found it achallenging course.
Bryan (20:18):
So you mentioned diving for things that people drop off,
like drop overboard. Are wetalking about, like, hey. I
dropped my car keys, or are wetalking about, like, hey. I
dropped a really expensive pieceof equipment overboard.
Erin (20:31):
The only time I was involved in that was, hey. I
dropped the ceremonial sportoverboard. But Then there's a
surprising number of golf ballsin Harbor. I had no idea. I
don't know what people are doingin Esquimalt there, but, there's
tons of interesting things inthe bottom of Esquimalt Harbor.
That's for sure.
Bryan (20:50):
Yeah. I bet. So during your naval service, you were
awarded the Grouse MemorialAward for professionalism at sea
and the Welland Shield forleadership. Can you tell us what
each of those are and why youwere awarded them?
Erin (21:02):
Yeah. Good question. That's a while ago now, but the
most professional at sea, Isuppose, was something that
keeps coming up as I tend to bea bit of a team mom, I guess,
whenever I'm away with a course,just trying to make sure
everyone has what they need,everyone's squared away,
everyone has their taskscomplete in a day. And if they
(21:23):
need help, I'd always offer tohelp out as much as I could. And
I think that maybe was justrecognized by the folks that,
you know, I'm always aroundasking if people need help and
making sure the team is takencare of.
That seems to be a bit of athing that I'm always doing. I'd
still do it now. And the otheraward for leadership, I think
(21:44):
was the same thing. They were indifferent years, different parts
of my training, but kind ofsimilar in that the division
that I was in, I always tried tomake sure that people had help
and had everything done thatthey needed to have done. And if
we were getting behind to helpthem out as much as I could.
So honestly, I think it justcame down to what I do
naturally, which is to make surethe people around me have what
they need to get their theirstuff done. And if they need
(22:06):
assistance, I'm always around ifI can make myself available.
Bryan (22:09):
Yeah. That's interesting. It sort of reminds me recently I
was doing an interview withcolonel Dan Coutts, the wing
commander of fifteen Wing MooseJaw. He was talking about this
concept of servant leadershipwhere you're really looking
after the needs of yourfollowers. And it sounds sort of
very similar.
Erin (22:24):
It sounds like the commander's a lot more eloquent
than I am about that. But, yes,I think it's the same concept.
You want your team to perform atits best. And the best way you
can do that is to make sureeveryone has everything that
they need to do that, whetherit's time or equipment or
training or assistance, whateverit happens to be. I think I take
that responsibility prettyseriously as a leader.
Bryan (22:45):
Yeah. I think that's that's huge. So around that same
time, you finished your Marsfour training. Can you explain
to us what exactly that meansand why you consider it to be a
milestone in your career?
Erin (22:56):
Yeah. Absolutely. So the training scheme for Mars
officers, which are now calledNaval Warfare Officers, think
it's NWO is what they go by now,it was a pretty challenging
course. I think I'd mentioned alittle bit before that
academically, I'd always had towork really hard in high school
and in college. And it was nodifferent with Mars training
either.
There was a lot of academicslearning the laws of the sea and
(23:19):
passing arrangements betweendifferent vessels. You had to
know pretty much the entire AOIsof the ship as well. So kind of
like you memorize your red andyellow pages and that kind of
thing for an aircraft, you haveto memorize pretty much how most
of your ship works as well andbe able to explain it during
your interviews and your boardinterviews. But essentially that
job prepared us through variousphases to be able to take the
(23:43):
watch and safely navigate avessel in piloted waters. So
meaning not out in the openocean, but sort of in the
complicated waters aroundCoastal BC here, where there's a
lot of islands, there's a lot ofshipping lanes and all that kind
stuff.
And it's fairly complicatedbecause we're not talking about
being able just to evade andmaneuver away from a larger ship
or any ship really, like you'retalking about a ship that's a
(24:04):
few 100 tons and a couple 100feet long, right? So learning to
safely do that, and there's awhole whole long list of things
you have to know was super hard.And there's also a lot of
emergency training you do aswell. You have to learn how to
manage, both manage and put outfires on ship, which are never a
pleasant experience. There's awhole thing called damage
(24:26):
control school that you gothrough where you actually fight
a propane fire inside a metalcage kind of thing and learn how
to do all that kind of stuff.
But by the end of Mars four,you're considered competent to
have the watch and represent thecaptain on the bridge. And it's
a big responsibility and I foundit challenging because of how
academically heavy it was. Therewas a lot of tests, there was a
(24:49):
lot of doing mental math inpublic on the bridge, trying to
figure out how you're going tomaintain your track when you're
being blown around or travelingat whatever speed. So that was
always fun. So I was proud ofthat because it wasn't a given
that it was always gonna passeach of those testing scenarios.
They were very challenging. Andagain, this concept of sort of
(25:10):
learning to be a little bit moreconfident when you're managing
multiple emergencies on a bridgeand you're being assessed as a
person who's kind of runningthat, you have to sort of step
into yourself and realize that,okay, I have the training, I
have the skills, now's the timefor me to show the rest of the
crew that I have the confidenceto lead them through this as
well. So there was a lot of meworking outside of areas where
(25:31):
I'm comfortable. I don't likedoing mental math in public and
I am not super confident, butslowly over time you learn those
skills and you kind of grow intoyourself. So the Mars training
that I did, I feel like in a lotof ways prepared me well to move
into different aspects of theCanadian Armed Forces.
So as much as I wasn't planningon joining the Navy, it turned
(25:53):
out to be a very beneficialexperience for me in lots of
different ways.
Bryan (25:57):
It sounds like a huge responsibility. I I just wanna
clarify. When you say itqualifies you to take the watch,
that basically is you being theofficer in charge of the ship in
that time? Like, I obviously notin command of the ship, but in
terms of, like, at that time,the buck stops with you.
Erin (26:13):
So at the time so because I I left before I could do my
bridge watch keeper certificate,there were some aspects that I
couldn't control. So thecommanding officer would kinda
leave you with parameters orarcs that you were allowed to
move in.
Bryan (26:27):
Okay.
Erin (26:27):
So I think I had, like I could have 10 knots of speed
change, and I think it was up to10 degrees either side for
heading changes to avoid othervessels. And if I couldn't
manage some kind of conflictwith another vessel because
slowly we're approaching eachother and there's rules you're
supposed to follow to make sureyou don't smash into each other,
you'd come up with a plan andthen call down to the captain.
(26:48):
It could be in the middle of thenight. They're probably sleeping
and say, this is my plan. Yougive them a block report and
they'd either say yay or nay ortell you why on earth would you
tell me to do that terribleplan, come up with another one.
But yeah, that's kind of yourjob is the buck stops with the
captain, but you're representingthat person on the bridge when
you have to watch. And so it's abig responsibility. There's
(27:11):
always someone there to back youup. The captain is on the ship
or the XO or a senior Marsofficer. But when you're
learning, it's a bigresponsibility.
It's not your ship, it'sCanadian ship and it's a minor
war vessel. I was on theminesweepers, the Kingston
class. So I thought it was a bigresponsibility and I took that
pretty seriously.
Bryan (27:31):
Yeah, for sure.
Erin (27:31):
Especially at night.
Bryan (27:33):
Yeah, no kidding. Yeah. How would you say your time
learning to work as a teamonboard Canadian Navy ships has
contributed to your success?
Erin (27:41):
Similar to all of the interesting characters and cats
that I work with in geology.Whenever you're on a ship, you
encounter a lot of interestingpersonalities as well. And I'd
say on a Minesweeper, there'sonly about 30 to 40 people at
any one time, they're smallerships, but there's always
personalities you don'tnecessarily get along with, but
(28:01):
you respect each other and thatyou're both sailors and you're
both trying to do a job. So Ithink one of the best skills
that I learned was learning towork with people that were very
different to me without gettingfrustrated. Like maybe we didn't
see eye to eye on everything,but at the end of the day, we're
still serving the same country.
We're still trying to do thesame job and you find a way to
(28:22):
work through that. And so Ithink the team aspect, the crew
aspect of working with the Navywas really, really important for
me. Because prior to that,hadn't, I mean, aside from
playing on some sports teams andbeing in cadets, I had no real
concept of what that was likeworking in a team like that in
the military. So I think theNavy was definitely really good
(28:46):
for building that skillset.
Bryan (28:49):
So around this time you applied to the RCAF again, what
prompted you to apply once againafter your Mars four training
and what was that experiencelike?
Erin (28:57):
Yeah. I applied just before the my Mars four
training, so that last sale. Andwhat I had essentially told
myself is I'm gonna give myselfone more shot at this whole
pilot thing. So I've alwayswanted to do that. If it doesn't
work out, that's fine.
I'm really enjoying what I'mdoing with the Navy. Maybe I'll
consider doing this full time.Maybe I'll get turbo jacked and
become like a clearance diver ortry and do that. So I was
(29:19):
looking at making the Navy afull time career, but I also
felt like I would regret it if Ididn't try one more time.
Bryan (29:27):
Yeah.
Erin (29:28):
And so I applied and then it turns out that they had
offered me a contract, but forsome reason I just never got the
call or the email or something.
Bryan (29:37):
Are you serious?
Erin (29:38):
Yeah. So I had done aircrew selection, I never heard
back and I had passed, butthat's when I ended up joining
the Navy instead. So my trainingofficer at the time, I think
he's a Lieutenant Commander,might be a commander now on the
East Coast. At the time he was atraining officer and he just
kind of like dug into it alittle bit and it turns out
there was some kind of clericalerror and my name and service
(29:59):
number and contact informationwas with a different Aaron
Edwards or something like that.So he found the message that was
cut and said, You're within atimeframe that's allotted if you
wanna do a transfer right now,we can do that.
And I'm like, Seriously? So I'mlike, Well, okay, that's rad. I
knew I had been selected, but Ididn't hear back. So I figured
that they didn't want me. Andhe's like, No, that was a
(30:21):
clerical error.
And you are more than welcome totake your transfer now if you
want. And then that's whathappened. I decided to take my
transfer, thanked HMCS Discoveryvery much and made my way to
Seneca College.
Bryan (30:36):
That's crazy. So you were still within like the time chunk
that that that offer was stillgood?
Erin (30:41):
I didn't have to redo aircrew selection. Yeah. So I
just I just applied for for atransfer at that time from the
reserves to the reg force. So Igot lucky.
Bryan (30:50):
That's awesome.
Erin (30:51):
And, like, no offense to the yeah. No offense to the
recruiting section at that time.They were moving buildings from,
like, Downtown Vancouver toanother town. So I would imagine
that would have been a totalnightmare for them. It's just
one of those things thathappens.
Bryan (31:03):
Oh, for sure. And, I mean, the recruiting centers are
handling an immense amount offiles at all times. Like, I
imagine they're under quite abit of pressure.
Erin (31:11):
Yep. If I were more confident, I probably would have
just called back and not notwaited a year or two years, but
that's okay.
Bryan (31:18):
That's a that's a wild story. So as we've said, you
were successful in your bid tojoin the RCAF. Did you do phase
one training or did you bypass?
Erin (31:28):
Nope. I didn't bypass. I think at the time I maybe had a
hundred and eighty hours as aprivate pilot, I was put on an
accelerated version of phaseone. I don't know if they do
that anymore. I think theyassume like, Hey, you probably
know which way the wheels aresupposed to face when you're
(31:49):
flying.
So you probably don't need theextra three hours or something
like that. But I did phase one,but even though I was a private
pilot, I didn't think it wasgoing to be super easy because
I'd never flown something withretractable gear and flying an
ancient 172 means that I'd neverflown something as fast as a
GROBE 120 Alpha either.
Bryan (32:05):
For sure.
Erin (32:06):
And the military flying environment in the RCF was
definitely new and it may havebeen self imposed stress, but I
found it a little stressful. SoI didn't take anything for
granted and made sure I was ontop of my studying and pretty
much if I had to relearnsomething to not worry that it
(32:26):
was different than about what Imaybe learned as a PPL out in
like Courtenay, BritishColumbia. But the solo was
definitely pretty cool. I'mlike, this is a neat plane. I
should remember to put the geardown, though.
Bryan (32:38):
Yeah. And I think what you've said, though, is great
advice for anyone who arrives inRCAF flight training with some
previous flight experience.Like, basically, be humble about
the experience you have. Beready to learn to do it the air
force's way, and you're gonnabasically give yourself as
little self imposed grief aspossible.
Erin (32:55):
Oh, 100%. I think you're very correct in saying that.
What what was great about havingflown before was that I was a
little bit better maybe at thevery beginning in terms of
building an air picture and I'dflown a pattern and that kind of
stuff. But I'd never doneaerobatics before. I don't
remember really doing practiceforce landings the way the Air
Force does things.
(33:15):
The parameters for your PPL werea little bit looser than the
parameters you had to maintainon phase one because they were
starting to push you towardsthat concept of maintaining very
tight parameters. So I'm like,okay. I have like you said, be
humble. I have a lot to learn.It's a privilege to be here.
Let's just let's just make surewe land this thing correctly.
Bryan (33:36):
Did you do phase two on the Harvard two or the Grove?
Erin (33:39):
I got fortunate because I was part of the Seneca program.
It was a very, very fast pacedand kind of a fixed syllabus for
us to have to go back and forthbetween phase training and
school. So in order for us tomake it back to school on time,
we were put over onto theHarvard in Moose Jaw and very
(34:00):
quickly pushed through thatcourse in order to meet our next
timing. So it was a lot to takein, but I enjoyed the Harvard.
But again, it was a superhumbling machine when you've
come from a 120 Alpha and acouple hundred hours on the
Cessna, and now you're flyingsome insane turboprop on an
ejection seat.
(34:21):
So I was fortunate that I got toexperience Woose Jaw in all its
glory in the winter and also getto fly the Harvard two.
Bryan (34:30):
The Harvard two is such a joy to fly. It's just such a
powerful, sleek machine. AndI've always said that I think
it's kind of like the closestyou can get to flying almost a
World War two Warbird in modernday. Like, it's just such a cool
plane.
Erin (34:44):
Yeah. It was my I still remember my first flight on the
Harbour. I can't remember who Iwas with, but I remember feeling
g as he accelerated for thefirst time down the runway. I'm
like, this is somethingdifferent. This is gonna be rad.
I didn't really enjoy doing IFin that machine, but I really
(35:04):
enjoyed the navigation phase andthe, the aerobatic phase for
sure. Yeah. IFR is a little bitless fun for me.
Bryan (35:13):
Right. Yeah. And I IFR being instrument flight rules.
Erin (35:16):
Correct.
Intro/Outro (35:16):
Yeah.
Bryan (35:17):
I'm curious. Did you get queasy at all in your early
flights? I know I did a littlebit on the Harvard.
Erin (35:21):
I think the first flight, there is something to do with
the the flicker and sun the sunat a certain angle. So maybe the
very first flight, but, I mean,thankfully, I never got seasick
either. So maybe I'd becomeaccustomed to that. But
Bryan (35:35):
Lucky.
Erin (35:36):
I don't like. Yeah, negative G is still kind of an
awkward thing for me for sure,but not too bad.
Bryan (35:43):
Yeah. I do get questions every now and then from
listeners about air sickness andstuff. And I know back at least
when I went through, they had anair sickness course they'd send
people on. Luckily, I only hadbasically on my first flight
felt a little bit queasy, butthey do have a course they send
people on, I believe. Was thatstill on when you were there?
Erin (36:00):
Yeah. They couple folks that I ended up working with at
four twenty seven had gonethrough the Harvard and a couple
of them had ended up on the airsickness course. And they said
it was the worst torture they'veever experienced, but at least
they got to fly after and they'dnever been sick after that. So
it's definitely something thatyou can inoculate yourself to.
(36:20):
It's not pleasant, but they werecertainly dedicated to wanting
to get that phase finished.
So they went and sufferedthrough it.
Bryan (36:27):
Yeah. I've heard that too. It's kind of like
Buckley's, like it's terrible,but it works.
Erin (36:32):
Exactly.
Bryan (36:34):
Did you have any particular challenges on phase
two?
Erin (36:37):
So many challenges. Phase two is a difficult course.
Bryan (36:40):
It is.
Erin (36:40):
It's a it's a long course. It's a complicated aircraft, and
it's the bulk of your militaryflight training as well. So
phase one was difficult becauseyou're trying to maintain
yourself on that learning curve.But in phase two, they're
literally teaching you how to bea military pilot. It's the bulk
of your basic flight trainingthat you do.
So not only is the aircraftcomplicated, you don't have a
(37:05):
lot of chances for redos ifsomething happens. So I, again,
had to work very, very hard forthe academic phase. That was
pretty challenging for me. I'msomeone who really likes to
study the manuals and learn allthat stuff. And I felt like I
(37:25):
didn't I always just didn't havequite enough time to get the
level of understanding that Ifelt like I wanted to give me
good context for how this wassupposed to work in the
aircraft.
I always felt like there was alittle bit of a discrepancy
between what I was able to do inthe aircraft and my
understanding of what was goingon until later in the And so the
IF phase was difficult for me,but I found that the navigation
(37:50):
phase felt a little bit morecomfortable. I was getting
fairly comfortable withnavigating, obviously from the
Navy and some other things I haddone in my life, but aerobatics
was super awesome. But IF was athorn in my side. And it almost
cost me the course actually, Ihad a tough time with that. But
the course ended up being onhard mode because of that, but
no more EDs, just make itthrough extra duals as they call
(38:13):
them.
So phase two was challenging fora lot of reasons, not the least
of which were personal. I wasgetting divorced at the time as
well. So not a fun thing to dowhile you're on phase two, but
the staff were supportive andthe course was really tight as
well. So we all just kind ofmade sure everyone had what they
needed. And I just spent a lotof extra time in the simulator
(38:34):
after hours when we had accessto it to make sure I could at
least get to a point where I wascomfortable with the IF stuff.
Bryan (38:43):
Yeah. I was gonna ask how you overcame that, but that's
really a great way to do it isjust get those reps in during
what little spare time you have.Get those extra simulator
sessions booked if you feel youneed them. Like, definitely, you
can't sit back and be kind ofcomplacent if you feel like you
have shortcomings on thatcourse.
Erin (38:58):
Absolutely not. And you can also ask your staff. I think
a lot of people think that thestaff are there only to assess
you. And what I found was, youknow, I put my hand up sort of
probably later than I shouldhave and said, I I need help
with this. I'm obviously notunderstanding it.
Here's what I think Iunderstand. And then went to the
staff and they're like, You knowwhat? There's just one small
(39:20):
thing that's not clear. Whydon't I explain it in this way?
And so utilize the staff aswell.
Like do your own preparation andtry your best. Use your team
first, but the staff are thereto teach you as well. So I was
very fortunate that I had somefolks like Kevin Domon Grenier
and Sarah Delaire. They wereboth snowbirds at one point
later on. They were fantasticinstructors and actually
(39:41):
everyone that was at Moose Jawwas super helpful.
And they took time if you askedso long as they knew you were
also doing your own preparation.But I cannot overstate how
important it is to ask for helpearly and identify early too if
you have weaknesses that you'reaware of, is to get help with
those you know, quickly so youdon't get behind. And that's I
(40:01):
think that's the thing thathurts people on that course is
they wait too long and then thatgap is just too big to try and
close.
Bryan (40:08):
Yeah. People I think are a little afraid almost to show I
don't wanna I don't know if it'sweakness exactly, but they don't
wanna highlight theirshortcomings because I think
like you said, they feel likethey're always being assessed.
But if there's one thing I'velearned from getting to know
instructors either through thispodcast or just friends of mine
here at Portage who areinstructing, they really care
about the students succeeding.And like across the board, if I
(40:31):
ask them, like, what's the mostsatisfying part of your job?
It's watching your students growand learn and succeed.
So absolutely, if you're outthere, you're listening, you're
a student right now, you're aprospective student in the RCF
flight training system, don't beafraid of your instructors.
They're they are a resource andthey wanna help you.
Erin (40:48):
100%. And I think this carries on into your operational
flying as well. I would alwaysmuch rather work and fly with a
person in an operationalcapacity that understands their
limitations is willing to askfor help than someone who's
like, I'll just do it and maybeI'll figure it out. I don't want
the I will maybe in certainoperational contexts. I want to
know if you know where yourweaknesses are so we can work
(41:11):
together to address them andvice versa.
It's up to us to be vulnerableabout that to make sure that
we're good to go operationally.So start that work early, I
guess, a piece of advice I have.
Bryan (41:21):
Yeah. I I 100% agree with that. There's nothing more
uncomfortable than that feelingof like winging it
operationally. That's not aplace you want to put yourself,
and that's not a place you wantto see other crew members
putting themselves either. Sothat's a that's a good piece of
advice for sure.
So you had mentioned an interestin jets. You were selected helos
(41:45):
at that time. Was that what youwanted?
Erin (41:48):
So I think given that it was so much work just to get
through the course that I Ihonestly was just happy that I
had passed phase two at thispoint. And I had been toying
with the idea of like, hey.Like, I was in the navy and I'm
from the West Coast. Maybe itwould be sweet to actually work
in maritime Hilo because Ididn't know that was really an
option until I was in the navy.
Bryan (42:09):
Okay.
Erin (42:09):
There was so much about the CAF that I had I had
blinders on too because I thinkjust given the air the nature of
the air cadet program, theyreally at least where I was,
like, everyone was reallyinterested in jets and that kind
of stuff. And my own interest inin space was obviously very
heavily skewed towards jetpilots and that kind of stuff.
Abbotsford Air Show didn't helpeither. But as my phase training
(42:33):
progressed on phase two, one ofmy flight commanders is actually
a former four twenty seven pilothimself. And he said, Listen, I
don't know why I know this, butI feel like you have the right
brain for four twenty seven.
You should think about that. I'mlike, I don't know what that
means, but helicopters arestarting to seem kind of cool.
And they had a couple folks fromdifferent communities come by.
(42:53):
And I mean communities as inmaritime helo search and rescue
and attack hell. And four twoseven came by and a couple of
the four two seven people, Iwish I remember who they were,
but they were talking about whatthey did with the Bell four
twelve.
And I'm like, that isimpossible. There's no way that
you guys do that. That's crazy.I didn't know you could do that
with a helicopter. And so Ithink those interactions with
(43:15):
people in the variouscommunities is honestly more or
less what started to switch myinterest.
Fighters are great. I think it'sa fantastic platform. They have
a very specific mandate. That'sawesome. But I think I was
starting to become lured to thedark side of helos given the
descriptions of what some ofthose folks were able to do with
(43:37):
the machines and they seemedkind of cool.
So I figured, you know what? I'mhappy to Honestly, I'll be happy
with anything I'm selected for.I don't really have a heavy
preference at this point. I'mjust happy to be offered a job
in the Canadian Armed Forces asa pilot. So I had an interest
more or less in helicopters atthat point, but when it came to
selection, I think I had justdecided, you know what?
(43:58):
Everything's gonna be anadventure. If they decide
they're gonna put me on multiengine or whatever, it's because
that's the best match for myskill, and we'll go with that.
But it turned out I was selectedfor helicopters, and that's
where I went.
Bryan (44:11):
That's such a great attitude to have. I have seen
kind of both sides of that coin.I've seen people who get
selected something differentthan what they were hoping and
they absolutely melted down. AndI think even in some cases
released. Yeah.
I've also seen people like youwho are basically like, hey, I
have certain preferences, but atthe end of the day, I'm grateful
to have a great job that isgonna be exciting. And I I
(44:34):
personally think there's no badflight deck in the Canadian
Armed Forces. I think that theyall have their their interesting
facets. And I don't think youcan really get a bad posting in
terms of flying in the RCAF.
Erin (44:48):
No. And I I understand that some people have some
pretty significant familyconsiderations. I didn't at the
time. Mhmm. So I was happy withanything.
But I think I think there areopportunities with with every
potential posting you get in theCAF as a pilot. So I was gonna
be happy with anything eitherway.
Bryan (45:05):
For sure. So you got through phase three Hilo in
Portage La Prairie, and ongraduation, you received the
Portage La Prairie award forprofessionalism. What do you
think set you apart to receivethis award?
Erin (45:16):
I don't know. I think it was a I think it was a canteen
setup that I had. There was alot of snacks available to
people when I was a cantino. Butno, same thing as before, we had
a relatively small class, but alot of us were on tight
timelines to get to other thingslike back to college. So it was
a stressful course, but the samekind of thing applied that I'd
(45:38):
learned in the Navy.
You try and help your friends.They would help me because I
still don't like IF. So I hadfriends in the simulator help me
out with that and vice versa. Ifsomeone needed help with
planning, just make yourselfavailable to people to help out.
And I guess maybe that's justsomething I do a little bit more
noticeably.
I don't know if it's noticeableor what, but I'm not sure. I
(46:01):
didn't nominate myself, otherfolks did, but I think it's just
me being me. It just happened tobe something that was beneficial
to the whole course.
Bryan (46:08):
It sounds like this is I mean, this is kind of a
recurring theme. Right? Like, ifwe look back at your naval
service and the awards youreceived there, it sounds like
sort of like you said, it's youbeing you. This is a kind of a
part of your personality thattends to shine through and get
noticed.
Erin (46:22):
Right.
Bryan (46:24):
Now we've talked about you getting selected to fly
Tackhill to fly VCH one fortysix Griffin, and that
specifically you were selectedto go to four two seven Special
Operations Aviation Squadron,which is part of Canadian
Special Operations ForcesCommand or CANSOFCOM. When did
that start to be a goal for you?
Erin (46:42):
So after phase two and we went over to start phase three,
I'd been thinking a little bitabout some of the mandates that
these various communities have,because as much as the flying is
fun, I wanted the mandate forthe community to kind of match
what I wanted to do. And it wasreally important for me to get
(47:02):
as much operational kind ofoverseas experience as quickly
as possible. Not because I wasolder than most of the
applicants, but I was about tento twelve years older than some
of these folks at the time. ButI felt that was going to be the
best way for me to put all ofthis stuff I'd finally kind of
got together and learned. And Iwas eager to go test it out and
(47:22):
kind of consolidate those skillsoverseas.
And so tac health started tobecome very interesting to me
because of the potential todeploy very quickly. And April
mandate specifically in terms ofresponding to things on very
short notice sounded veryinteresting to me. It sounded
like it was just the right kindof challenge they wanted. And
(47:45):
they were looking for peoplethat were sort of nontraditional
thinkers or could think kind ofabstractly and had done a bunch
of different stuff in their lifeand like, Hey, I owned a
clothing store and an artgallery. I was in the Navy.
I've done a bunch of randomweird stuff. Maybe this will be
a good fit. And I was able toget a little bit of help
contacting some folks that hadflown there and talked to them
(48:05):
about what it was they weredoing and how they liked it. And
I felt like, hey, this mightactually be a really good fit
for my super weird personalitythat likes to do all kinds of
weird stuff at the same time andbe really busy. So I put my
notice of intent in, whichessentially starts the
application process.
They kind of do a deep dive intoyour military background and
(48:28):
will offer you a selection spot.At the time we had a flying
selection as well, which I wasworried about because with the
way my training had kind ofgone, we went back and forth
between face training and thenschool at Seneca College in
Toronto. So when I put my NOIin, I actually hadn't flown in
(48:50):
three semesters, however longthat ends up being. And when you
graduate phase three, you don'thave too many hours. I'm like,
okay.
Well, I'll apply. Chances areI'm not gonna get this because I
haven't flown for very long andalso I only have eighty hours or
whatever on this machine. Butthey invited me out for an
interview, a year psychevaluation, and then a flight
(49:10):
test or a flight evaluation. AndI honestly just showed up
already thinking, I'm not goingto get selected. The other
person that was there with mehad a lot more experience that
was doing the selection at thesame time.
So I'd sort of decided I'm goingto get as much information and
sort of enjoy myself as much aspossible and ask a bunch of
questions. This is a super neatexperience to have in Petawawa,
(49:30):
I'll never do this again. And itprobably remains to this day,
probably because I decided thatthere was no pressure, I wasn't
gonna get selected anyway, thatit was my best flight. I had
never flown that well in myentire life. And I was flying
with a fellow who's very wellknown in the community for being
(49:51):
one of our best pilots.
They're all fantastic, but thisperson has helped us build a lot
of our tactics. So I felt likeit was a super cool experience.
I'd never flown with a flightengineer in the back conning me
onto a tower before. So I'mlike, that's a really fun
experience. I appreciate youguys taking the time out of your
day and all that of stuff.
And then I'll just go back toschool and I'll figure out where
(50:11):
I get posted after that. Andthen I got a call a couple weeks
later and then a postingmessage. I was super surprised,
but I think it was just goinginto it, not overconfident, but
more or less like this is alearning opportunity as much as
it is anything else. And I don'tknow. I guess it worked out.
Bryan (50:30):
Well, it kinda like you said helps like, you sort of
removed a lot of the selfimposed pressure that a lot of
people go into those situationswith?
Erin (50:38):
Yep. So I removed the self imposed pressure by presupposing
the outcome. That doesn't mean Iwasn't prepared. I I there was I
didn't really know how toprepare for an interview and a
flight test that I didn't knowanything about. So I probably
went overboard by trying to getahold of a checklist because I'd
never actually flown a CH-one146.
(50:58):
I'd flown the the four twelve CFin training. So I learned the
red pages and the white pagesbecause a friend gave me a
checklist and then went over theprocedures for PET that I could
find and did a deep dive intofour twenty seven and Ken
Softcom's background. At least Iwas as prepared as I could be.
Typical Aaron Edwards,
Intro/Outro (51:16):
This is
Erin (51:16):
what I do all the time. It's a little bit much. So I
wanted to make sure that if Iwasn't selected, which probably
wasn't gonna happen, that atleast I'd done everything in my
power to be ready and I hadnothing to regret at that point.
So that's kind of how Iapproached it.
Bryan (51:31):
I think that's a good approach to a lot of different
flight training opportunities. Iremember at Moose Jaw, a turning
point for me was when Irealized, like, I'm just gonna
do my best and leave it all onthe table and real and then that
way, if this doesn't work out,at least I can walk away and
say, I tried my hardest. It justwasn't meant to be.
Erin (51:50):
Yeah. Absolutely. And I don't my biggest fear in life is
getting to my deathbed andhaving regrets. And those
regrets being, I just didn't tryhard enough. Yeah.
That's not what I want. So youmight as well just put it all
out there, see if it happens.And if it doesn't, at least then
you know where to start from torecover from that. Right?
Bryan (52:09):
For sure. Okay, Erin, that's gonna wrap up part one of
our chat for today. I reallyenjoyed learning about your
career and I'm excited to hearmore about what you are doing
down in Houston when we continueon part two. So thank you for
being here today.
Erin (52:21):
Thank you.
Bryan (52:23):
Okay. That wraps up part one of our chat with captain
Erin Edwards, a Royal CanadianAir Force captain who is
currently working with theCanadian Space Agency and NASA
down in Houston. For our nextepisode, we'll be reconnecting
with Erin to talk all about herexperiences in the operational
world with four two sevenspecial operations aviation
squadron, as well as thebeginning of the discussion of
her time in Houston. Do you haveany questions or comments about
(52:45):
anything you've heard in thisshow? Would you or someone you
know make a great guest, or doyou have a great idea for a
show?
You can reach out to us at thepilotprojectpodcast@Gmail.com or
on all social media at at podpilot project. And be sure to
check out that social media forlots of great videos of our RCAF
aircraft. As always, we'd liketo thank you for tuning in and
ask for your help with the bigthree. That's like and follow us
(53:07):
on social media, share with yourfriends, and follow and rate us
five stars wherever you get yourpodcasts. That's all for now.
Thanks for listening. Keep theblue side up.
Intro/Outro (53:16):
See you. Engineer, shut down all four. Shutting
down all four engines.
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