Episode 63: The Kingfisher: Developing, acquiring and flying the CC-295 Kingfisher Part 1 - Luc Coates, Francois Fasquelle, Dan Faux

What drives someone to choose the demanding — and often dangerous — career of Search and Rescue pilot? What early experiences shaped their paths, and what does it really take to fly missions where lives hang in the balance?

In this episode, we sit down with three remarkable guests:

• Lieutenant-Colonel Luc Coates, Commanding Officer of 418 Search and Rescue Operational Training Squadron
• Lieutenant-Colonel Francois Fasquelle, Commanding Officer of 442 Transport and Rescue Squadron
• Major Dan Faux, a subject matter expert on the CC-295 Kingfisher

Together, they share stories from their diverse beginnings, the lessons they’ve carried forward, and what ultimately led them to the unique world of SAR and Canada’s newest fixed-wing SAR aircraft, the Kingfisher.

Episode Transcript

Advertisement (00:00):
This podcast is presented by Skies Magazine. If
you're interested in theCanadian aviation industry,
Skies is your go to multimediaresource for the latest news,
in-depth features, stunningphotography, and insightful
video coverage. Whether you'rean aviation professional or
enthusiast, Sky's is dedicatedto keeping you informed and
bringing your passion foraviation to life. Visit

(00:21):
skysmag.com to learn more andsubscribe to stay updated on all
things Canadian aviation.

Bryan (00:28):
Hey, everybody. This is your host, Brian Morrison, with
a graphic content warning. Thisepisode contains the vivid
description of the death of achild. While we considered
removing this portion of theshow, we wanted to convey the
realities of what search andrescue crews regularly deal
with. It is a life and deathbusiness, and we wanted to stay
true to that.

(00:49):
However, if you would rather nothear it, this occurs following
the discussion on thedifficulties of remaining
emotionally detached from themission. This happens from
minute thirty to minute thirtyand eight seconds. With that
being said, please enjoy theshow. Fuel ignition switches, on
RPM switches. Set PD switches.

(01:10):
Normal doors and hatches. Closedlay down. Strobe light on.
Research check-in the fleetclear left. Engineer, start
number two.
Starting two. Wing three ten,pilot project broadcast. Clear
takeoff runway Alright. We'reready for departure here at the

(01:35):
Pilot Project Podcast, the bestsource for stories and advice
from RCAF and Mission AviationPilots brought to you by Sky's
Magazine. I'm your host, BrianMorrison, and today we are doing
a very special on locationinterview in 19 Wing Comox, BC
with Lieutenant Colonel FrancoisPasquel, CO of four forty two
Transport and Rescue Squadron,Lieutenant Colonel Luke Coates,
CO of four eighteen Search andRescue Operational Training

(01:57):
Squadron, and Major Dan Fox, aqualified Kingfisher pilot who
is a subject matter expert onthe c two ninety five.
Gentlemen, welcome to the show,and thank you for having me here
in nineteen Wing.

Luc (02:07):
Thanks for having us.

Bryan (02:09):
Today, we will be talking about our three guests early
careers and flight trainingexperience, and then we'll be
diving into an in-depthconversation about the c two
ninety five Kingfisher.Something I always like to
establish is what started youdown the road of pursuing
aviation as a career. So wheredid that start for you all?

Dan (02:25):
Aviation as a career. I would say when I was very young,
it's a funny one, I had a realkeen obsession with machines.
Everything I saw in my housegrowing up, chainsaws,
eventually begging formotorbikes, bikes and heavy
equipment and driving the carsaround the driveway when I was

(02:46):
12 and four by fours and one ofthose machines was in the
basement, I got to look up inthe rafters and see all these
kind of old remote controlairplanes. My dad and his
brother had a real fascinationwith planes and basically, truly
the start of it was I asked himto drag a plane out of the attic

(03:08):
or sorry, the rafters and couldwe please put it together as
remote control, start flying it.It became one of those projects
and he did and we did and gottogether and started building
and crashing planes for the nextseveral years and learning and
trying to make my own and that'swhat got going there.

(03:29):
Plus, like I said, my dad andhis brother, they got into a
couple old private aircraft.Super exciting for me to tag
along. We pulled a almost mosscovered plane out of the field
at Victoria Airport at Blanca,Cruise Air Senior. They got to
fly in a short period of timeand I remember riding in the
back seat of it being scared andexcited at the same time that

(03:51):
they had got it going and it wasflying and it went from there.
It just, yeah, love of machines,flying got built into that and
it built into eventually signingup to be a pilot.

Bryan (04:05):
Really? That's awesome. That's like a very unique
answer. I haven't heard one yetwhere it started with, like,
remote control aircraft and justa love of machines and stuff. So
that's really cool.
What about you, Francois?

Francois (04:18):
Yeah. I didn't know anything about aviation. I I
jumped into a recruiting centerone day completely randomly. I
had I was really good in scienceback in high school, so I went
to the recruiting center. Isaid, hey.
I'm interested in a job. Theysaid, well, you're good in
science. Do you wanna become anengineer? I became an engineer
in the military, an aerospaceengineer. And a few years after,

(04:40):
with some some background hereas an engineer, I swapped to
pilot.
There's a bit of a story there,actually. So I was I was working
back in Ottawa, and I I had abit of a a dream, like a
daydream, where I was flying ahelicopter and doing SAR in that
daydream, and I came back to theoffice a few days after, and I
said, wanna swap to to searchand rescue. So I went search and

(05:02):
rescue, and I've been flyingever since.

Bryan (05:04):
That's awesome. How about you, Luke?

Luc (05:08):
When I was a a kid, I remember my grandfather telling
me stories of, of him flying theLancaster in World War two as a
pilot officer. And when he wouldtell me these stories, his eyes
would light up with joy andpassion. He had a very good a
great experience, a highlight ofhis life, and that really
inspired me, got me curiousabout flying. Just like Dan, I

(05:31):
also love everything remotecontrol and cars and operating,
any equipment. A combination ofboth led me to to wanna be a
pilot in the RCF.

Bryan (05:41):
Wow. So it was kind of in your blood a little. Perhaps.
Yeah. For Dan and Francois, whatbrought each of you to the CAF
to pursue that career inaviation?

Dan (05:50):
You know, I didn't have the idea in my mind growing up at
all to be in the military. Iwill say that my grandfather, my
mother's father served in WorldWar II. He was an absolutely
amazing person. So he was amosquito mechanic. I'd say that
was an inspiration that probablysolidified the idea anyway, but

(06:13):
I would say it was prettyrandom.
Was preparing to go to UVic.What I wanted to do was
engineering there. I also lovebusiness and stocks went on as
well, but I was heading thereand I heard a commercial on the
radio that kind of outlined youcould do the same thing, but
paid for and have no debts comeout of the other end. And that
pretty much listening to thatlittle radio, I think I was

(06:35):
going to clean a pool. I waslike a pool boy for work.
And I was like, man, that's nota bad plan. I called them up and
it was all in a very short orderperiod late. Called them up,
they're like, you are late. In aweek, we're putting people on to
go or something. They're like,we'll check, come in tomorrow.
And then the whole thing wassort of flash to bang in days.

(06:56):
And they're like, it's working,you're going, oh, wow. So no
time to think, basically.

Bryan (07:02):
That's crazy. I remember the person

Dan (07:03):
saying, like, yes or no on the literal phone call. Like,
are you you gotta be kidding.Like, okay. I gotta call you
back in the morning. And since Iguess that's their tactic or
something.
And I was like anyway, the nextmorning, said, yes. And then I
told my folks, I think, kind ofat that point

Luc (07:17):
Mhmm.

Bryan (07:18):
My parents are like, what? Did they know you'd
applied?

Dan (07:21):
They knew I applied, but I think, you know, my mom, she's
amazing, and she's probablylike, you know, we're a tight
family. Oh my gosh, he's leavingis probably the primary thought,
right? He's going. For sure.That was sad.
But they've been very happy forme, I'd say. It was that simple.

Bryan (07:38):
It's crazy that it worked out that well because like,
right place, right time. So manypeople who want to join the
pilot trade end up waiting yearssometimes. Right? Like I got in
really easily, same thing, rightplace, right time. My buddy
applied a few months later.
I think it was like three yearsbefore he got in.

Dan (07:54):
I'll say for the future prospects that, you know, for
the audience, they said, soundsgood, but guess what? You could
probably be a pilot in thefuture. For now, you're in the
armor. And so actually, theysent me to be in the armor,
know, get ready to have some funwith tanks and I said, okay,
well, pilot's what I'm lookingfor and they said that's not a

(08:15):
problem, just go there and tellthem you want to be a pilot once
you get there. There's obviouslya story behind that but by about
a year later through hook andcrook and a little bit of poking
and pushing, they did switch meover.

Bryan (08:26):
That's crazy. Yeah. One for

Dan (08:28):
one swap actually was somebody who read like a John
Grisham book about commandingtanks, decided they didn't wanna
be a pilot. And I was like, Iwould like to be a pilot. So we
did a one for one swap.

Francois (08:39):
I've I've known Dan for fifteen years and already in
five minutes, I know more of

Bryan (08:43):
you.

Dan (08:43):
Yeah. Yeah. Good fortune. You know, luck is a part of it.
Work is a part of it.

Bryan (08:49):
And, what about you, Francois?

Francois (08:51):
Yeah. Well, I was like the CAF itself it's the CAF in
military aviation is kinda twodifferent answers there. The the
CAF, I just wanted to step intosomething that was meaningful.
So as an engineer, I justdeployed to Bosnia. I was the
flight commander there.
And when I came back, I switchedto pilots really because of the
operational sense of purpose. Ihad the choice at some point in

(09:14):
my career to switch to civilianpilot. I also looked at even
becoming a professional rockclimber, is unrelated to to CAF.
Really? Yeah.
And we can get into the detailslater on, but eventually I I I
went to the the pilot side ofthings just for that operational
purpose, and and the team aspectof of working together with

(09:36):
professionals.

Bryan (09:37):
Okay. When each of you look back on your early days of
flight training, what is thebiggest lesson that each of you
learned that you carried forwardwith you as pilots? Do wanna
start, Francois? Sure. Yeah.

Francois (09:47):
I think, like, two things stick out. First, respect
your limits and respect thelimits of the aircraft. That's
something that I learned onlike, learned very early on in
my career. And b, if you're nothaving fun, you're doing it
wrong. So those are the twothings that stick out from early
aviation career.

Bryan (10:03):
Yeah. That having fun lesson is so important because
it's so easy to get reallystressed out or, you know,
you're often you're workingextremely hard in the pilot
world and you can really startto feel worn down and forget,
like, this is an amazing job.

Francois (10:18):
Absolutely. 100%. Yeah.

Bryan (10:20):
How about you, Luke?

Luc (10:22):
I'd say the time prepping for flights ahead of time, being
ready, studying pays dividend.

Bryan (10:31):
Mhmm.

Luc (10:32):
That's the biggest biggest lessons that I still carry to
this day when I go fly. I wannamake sure I'm ready. And then
you feel much better, youperform better, you have more
fun, because I also agree.You're not having fun, you're
not doing it right. Bigproponent of that.
But, you still have to put thework into it.

Bryan (10:47):
100%. Yeah. Walking into a flight unprepared is a super
uncomfortable feeling. And it'snot you won't make it very far
if that's how

Luc (10:55):
you're Definitely

Bryan (10:56):
things. Like, some people, maybe early in their
training, can get by on rawtalent, but that only takes you
so far, especially once you'reoperational.

Luc (11:03):
And it's unfair to your other crew members of

Dan (11:06):
100%.

Luc (11:06):
Right? They expect you to to deliver your you know, to
bring a lot of effort and toperform to the max of your
abilities. And if you're notdoing that, it's it's unfair to
them.

Bryan (11:16):
Yep. I agree. How about you, Dan?

Dan (11:19):
I agree with everything they said. And maybe the one
thing I'll add in, and I thinkit took me through, I had to get
a little bit older to figure itout, but there's a feedback
mechanism. When you're going tolearn accepting fault with the
people you're working with andbeing positive and engaged with
the people teaching you andaround you, like showing respect

(11:40):
to your peers and instructorsand listening to them and doing
your best to sort of put yourego aside because it's very
personal in pilot training.They're like, we went out today.
These are the things that youneed to do to improve.
And it took me time to meditatemy way to the point where I'm
listening properly, I'm there,I'm taking in what they're
saying, and you know what, theywere in a good position to

(12:02):
watch, and now I'll go attackthe problem. As opposed to
working in my own mind to saylike, well, I don't know if it
was quite like that. And that'show I entered training. And I
think I exited with this totalrelief in realizing that if I
just accept it, but then workhard and start attacking what
their issues were and what theywant me to do, it was this

(12:24):
incredible feedback mechanismbecause I'd walk in the
instructor the next day and belike, I can see that you
listened. I can see that youstudied and this is amazing.
Let's go try it again. And sureenough, their advice often
worked and we'd go and they feltgood. I felt good. It's a funny
thing, right? It works inuniversity.
It was the same. You engage theteacher and they're like, wow,

(12:44):
you're interested. And thenthey're interested in you. And I
try to teach that, you know, tomy family and my kids. I mean,
that loop is incredible.

Bryan (12:52):
Mhmm.

Dan (12:53):
It's a snippet. I totally agree with what those guys said.
But for me, learning to learnhas been a big deal too.

Bryan (13:00):
Yeah. And going back to what you're saying about like
when you receive that criticism,it's really challenging at
first, but like the best thingyou can say when your instructor
tells you what you did wrong islike, yes, sir. Yes, ma'am. And
go and work on that. Like, don'ttry to convince yourself why it
really wasn't that big a deal orhere's what I was thinking and
that's why it's okay.
Because it's really tempting to,like, make excuses. Yep. But you

(13:22):
just have to accept, this istheir way. We're gonna do it
their way. And and that's whatyou have to do.

Dan (13:27):
Yeah. Maybe clarify in a positive way. Like Sure. You
don't have to just pander to it,but reiterate, is this what you
mean? You know?
And get more from them maybe.But, yeah, roll with them and do
it for them.

Luc (13:41):
Yeah. I would say even when you're at the top of your game,
flying lots, higher rank, youknow, standards for the whole
fleet, I would still go and askthe most junior person on the
crew if there's anything I coulddo to improve on or any anything
that they they might have seen.And they often have great
points, and you you do alwaysyou can always get much better,

(14:03):
more effective, safer. I thinkit becomes dangerous if you you
wanna create you wanna createthat environment where people
feel comfortable mentioning, youknow, things that could have
been done better. Even if it's amuch higher rank or much more
senior person, it's veryimportant to to have that
culture.
And, if you think you're donelearning or know everything,
it's probably time for you tohang up the the flying gloves.

Bryan (14:25):
Yeah. Absolutely. It's critical.

Luc (14:26):
It's it's good to try and embrace that culture of always
self improving and listening toeveryone.

Bryan (14:32):
Yep. That's why we debrief after every flight.
Right?

Luc (14:34):
Exactly.

Bryan (14:36):
So now we're gonna dive into more of each of your
careers, starting with Francois.Lieutenant colonel Francois
Pascal graduated from the RoyalMilitary College in February.
After completing aerospaceengineering officer training, he
was posted to four thirtytactical helicopter squadron
becoming the deputy squadron airmaintenance engineering officer.
He deployed to Bosnia in 2001 asthe maintenance flight commander

(14:58):
of the NATO Griffin detachmentand was responsible for
humanitarian projects inNorthern Bosnia. Upon completing
a postgraduate degree from LavalUniversity in 02/2006, Francois
was posted to Ottawa and chargedwith the management of several
research and developmentprojects.
In 02/2008, he was nominated asexecutive assistant to the
director general of aerospaceengineering program management

(15:19):
and continued in this role fornearly two years. In 02/2009, he
was selected for an occupationtransfer to pilot. Upon flight
training graduation, Francoiswas posted to four four two
search and rescue squadron inComox BC to fly the CH one forty
nine Cormorant helicopter.Throughout a five year period,
he held the positions of unitflight safety officer and pilot
lead and completed numerouschallenging search and rescue

(15:41):
missions on Canada's mountainousWest Coast. In 02/2016, Francois
was posted to Gander,Newfoundland, appointed as
deputy commanding officer of onezero three SAR Squadron and
followed on to assume command ofthe squadron in 02/2018.
Over the course of three years,he continued to perform as
aircraft commander on the CAtwenty forty nine Cormorant and
was responsible to lead the SARSquadron in the demanding

(16:02):
operational environment of theEast Coast and Arctic. In
02/2019, Francois was posted tothe directorate of air
requirements assigned as deputyproject director of the
Cormorant Midlife Upgrade aswell as project director of
several minor capitalacquisition projects. He was
assigned in 2022 to the CanadianJoint Operations Command as j
three SAR, where he extensivelycoordinated with all SAR CAF

(16:25):
entities, other governmentdepartments, and international
partners, ensuring that the SARmandate remained at the
forefront of Canadian operationsand policies. He is currently
the commanding officer of fourfour two SAR and transport
squadron and amongst otherchallenges led the
implementation andoperationalization of the new c
two ninety five Kingfisher fixedwing SAR aircraft in the

(16:45):
Victoria Search And RescueRegion, standing up the first
main operating base acrossCanada. Francois is a graduate
of the joint command and staffprogram.
He holds a bachelor's degree inspace sciences, a master in
electro optical engineering, anda master in defense studies. He
has completed 140 operationalSAR missions and is a licensed
commercial airplane pilot andairline transport helicopter

(17:07):
pilot. Francois is extremelyprivileged to have the support
of his wonderful spouse, MarieYves, and two awesome children,
Delaya and Antoine. So,Francois, you deployed to Bosnia
in 2001 as the maintenanceflight commander of the NATO
Griffin detachment. What wasthat experience like for you?

Francois (17:24):
It was very unique. I was extremely young, right out
of university. The thecontingent was deployed the day
nine eleven happened. I Ivividly remember that. So the
morning of 09:11, we were inTrenton an hour before embarking
in the Airbus, the militaryAirbus to go to Bosnia.
Nine eleven had just happened,and we looked at each other

(17:47):
like, okay, either we're notgoing or we're going in a hurry
and into a war zone. We ended upso as you know, all the airways
were blocked off in the world.The day after, the airways
opened up only for militaryflight, so we got into Bosnia
the day after, so twenty fourhours after. And then, yeah, it
was a very immersive experience.I was a lieutenant, a young

(18:08):
lieutenant.
I relied on I learnedleadership. So I was a flight
commander. We I was I wasleading techs. I had aircraft to
manage and so on. I learned frommy CO there.
I learned from my master warrantofficer. I remember him, an old,
crusty master warrant officerSlater. I remember his name,
Tony Slater. For me, he wasprobably, like, 75 years old,
but in reality, he was probably58

Bryan (18:29):
or something.

Francois (18:29):
Yeah. I learned immensely from him. He he taught
me the basic of leadership. Iloved it. I also was involved in
humanitarian aid in NorthernBosnia, so that gave me a very
perspective, a differentperspective.
It allowed me to understand thatCanada here we are privileged.
We are one of the most beautifuland peaceful country on earth.

(18:50):
Bosnia and Kosovo had just beendestroyed by war. We were
rebuilding it and we were takingcare of the country so it was an
eye opening. But I learnedleadership.
I learned teamwork. An anecdotefrom that is, so I was deployed
for seven months, and duringlonger deployments you have an
LTA where you can leave for twoweeks, relax somewhere, and I
went on to Australia for twoweeks, and out there, you need

(19:13):
to think this is like 02/2001,so this is before like the
beards and the long hair, sothis was a very and we were on
an infantry camp in Bosnia. Iwent to Australia with two
buddies, and I bleached my hairorange, like bright orange, like
Ronald McDonald orange. I cameback on the camp after that LTA,
and the colonel who was aVendoux, an infantryman, saw me,

(19:36):
and with a jag, they wanted toRTB me to Canada. They were
like, no.
That that aviator, that younglieutenant, we do not want that
person on the camp. He isrebellious and so on. So my CO
stepped up and said, look, I'mgonna take care of this young
lieutenant Pascal. He has orangehair right now. We'll shave him
completely off.

(19:57):
We still need him in Bosnia. Wewill not return him to Canada.
So that evening, I shaved myhair to, like, zero, like,
completely completely bald. Butin a sign of teamwork, all the
other air crew of the helicopterdetachment shaved their hair as
well. So we were a bunch of,like, 15 people completely

(20:18):
shaved hair.
We stepped into the cafeteriathe next morning, and, and
things went on fire at thatpoint, because now, now the
camp, the infantry peoplethought that we were being
rebellious against the, the, theinfantry officers, so again, the
CO stepped in, protected hispeople, and and things went on,
but it was it was an interestingway of learning, learning

(20:41):
military life, let's put it thatway, and I learned from the
leadership of that CO back backthen.

Bryan (20:46):
I was gonna say it sounds like you had some really, really
good, mentors.

Francois (20:50):
Yeah. Fantastic. They took care of their people, and
that's what I I try to strive tonow as a CO.

Bryan (20:57):
Yeah. That's awesome. Now we've talked about the fact that
you switched from an aerospaceengineer to a pilot. Did you
find it challenging to switchfrom a support to an operator
mindset?

Francois (21:07):
No. I actually had zero problems, honestly. My my
nature is very decisive driven.I'm a rock climber. Like, on my
personal life, I'm a rockclimber, so I deal with risk
management, with decisions, withtime factors and so on.
So actually being an engineerwas a bit of a challenge to me.

(21:29):
I had talent, I was good inschool, but I felt that as an
engineer things wouldn't improveor wouldn't go forward as fast
as I'd like to, so doing theswitch to an operational pilot
in the military was actually, itwas like a little little fish in
a in in a bowl. I was I washappy. I was able now to manage
risk, to lead crews, bothtactically and operationally, so

(21:53):
no no issues there at all.

Bryan (21:54):
Yeah. It gave you a chance for more of like a hands
on decisive experience.

Francois (21:58):
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And the engineering
background helped me make thosedecisions as an operational
tactical aviator.

Bryan (22:05):
How how would you say that was? Like, in what ways did
it help you?

Francois (22:08):
Well, I I now understood the processes behind
the engineering decisions, thedesigns of an aircraft, the the
procedures, the policies, theregulations, the just an
example, like, why why does anMEL exist?

Bryan (22:22):
For the listeners, an MEL is a minimum equipment list and
is basically a list of theminimum equipment that you must
have functional to go flying.

Francois (22:30):
And why those items are listed and in what order and
so on. So all all thatbackground information that
stems from an engineeringsupport, I was able to
understand and explain to mycrew and make decisions,
highlighted decisions based onthe background of that
engineering.

Bryan (22:48):
Yeah. So it kind of gave you, like, a broader breadth of
experience and ability to kindof understand the reasons, you
know, what's going on behind thecurtain and why those decisions
are made.

Francois (22:57):
Yeah. Understand the aircraft, the policies, and, you
know, there's the MELS. So inSAR, we we're obviously bound to
all the the aviationregulations, but but we are able
to temporarily deviate from acertain rule if it's in if it's
to save a life. Yeah. But thatdecision cannot be taken
lightly, and it needs to bejustified if we need to deviate

(23:20):
it deviate from a rule to save alife.
So I think that engineeringbackground allowed me to make
some decisions in my career,that were justifiable to save a
life.

Luc (23:31):
Okay. When Francois and I were young captains together on
squadron, sometimes we wouldhave, engineering engineers tell
us that limitations wouldchange, or we would have
whatever changes came down for xy reasons, and Francois was able
to explain to us why this washappening and the reasoning
behind it, and it just helped usaccept and understand the

(23:53):
reasons and would have more buyin. So it was nice to have
someone to bridge the the gapbetween engineers and operators.

Bryan (23:58):
It kinda gives you that warm fuzzy when they're telling
you something, and then you canyou can kind of buy into it when
you actually understand why andwhat's Why going

Luc (24:06):
why are we why are they all of a sudden give putting this
limitation on us? Yeah. Which isfrustrating as an operator. You
don't want it. And then Hasoreally takes time to explain it
to an operator and like, oh.

Bryan (24:17):
Or even the opposite of that when it's like, why are why
are they suddenly willing toaccept this risk? Like, why is
this okay?

Luc (24:23):
Absolutely. Yeah. Bang on.

Bryan (24:25):
Your first operational posting was here in Comox at
four four two Transport andRescue Squadron flying the CH
one forty nine Kormorant. Whatwere those early days like for
you as a pilot?

Francois (24:35):
Learning to become an aircraft commander, really was
the highlight of it, obviously.But learning to fly the the
machine in the mountains. Youknow, I was brought into the
mountains. This is the onlything I knew, so I understood.
Tried to learn to become onewith the machine, with the asset
in the mountains, and to managerisk as well.

(24:56):
So flying in the mountains likeyou did last night or yesterday
afternoon at a sunset is a safeenvironment, but now to
prosecute a SAR mission at nightin steep valleys on night vision
goggles in less than idealweather conditions on bingo
fuel, and so on and so on. Sothat that that was my first

(25:16):
experience of understanding thelimitations of my my personal
limits, the limitations of mycrew, the limitations and the
capabilities of the asset, andand just learning to to lead
tactically and to to tap intothe subject matter experts of
the aircrew and to prosecute amission safely and effectively.

Bryan (25:36):
Yeah. So yesterday, for the listeners, I was able to I
was lucky enough to go for aflight on the two ninety five.
And having a chance to see theterrain and see the places you
guys operate, I was blown away.Because it's beautiful. Like you
said, it was an evening flight.
The weather was good. The airwas calm. And it was it was
almost like sightseeing. But Ican only imagine in rough

(25:59):
conditions at night going andoperating in those environments.
It must be really intimidating,especially at first.

Francois (26:06):
Yeah. And it speaks to training. We we train our crews,
immensely. So we don't I'm not Ididn't jump in to the tightest
of the valleys early on in mycareer, but with experience,
with training, with respect,with step by step processes,
you're able to push thecapability with always keeping
it out, and that's what Ilearned early on in my career is

(26:29):
becoming one, and I know it'skind of cliche, but becoming one
with the machine and the crew,and understanding the power of
teamwork, and trusting your teamleader, your team member, the co
pilot, the flight engineer, andprosecuting a mission safely,
and being able to turn down amission if it's going to be

(26:50):
unsafe. Right.
So and that is, I think, thebiggest learning point that I
learned early on is sometimesyou you have to say no to a
mission. It's not often that weturn down a mission, but
sometimes you have to say nobecause the danger is just too
elevated.

Bryan (27:04):
That must be a really tough call to make. It's super
tough.

Francois (27:07):
It's it's one of the toughest. Yeah.

Luc (27:09):
Yeah. The first time is very hard. I found for myself
the first time turning down amission, it goes against
everything in you, but it doesget easier as as your career
goes on. And keeping your crewsafe and bringing folks back
home safe is is priority numberone.

Bryan (27:26):
And I would imagine that you become more comfortable with
weighing risk. And you as yougain experience, you kind of
know, oh, this is one of thosemissions where we just can't do
this.

Francois (27:38):
Yeah. Exactly. You see many missions throughout a
career. So eventually,intuitively, you know Mhmm. If
you can do that mission or not.
And you don't need to reallyexplain it to anyone. You you
just you know that that missioncan be prosecuted safely or
right away, you know, like, no.This this is not gonna happen
tonight because because of x xfactors.

Luc (28:00):
Yeah. Yeah.

Francois (28:01):
And so maybe back to that original question, what did
I learn? I also learned to copewith emotions.

Bryan (28:08):
Mhmm.

Francois (28:09):
You know, we people look at SAR as these platforms,
whether it's the helicopter orthe fixed wing where we save
people, but it's not,unfortunately always the case,
and you know I'm looking at Lukehere, and maybe Luke doesn't
really remember this one, butone of my first missions as a co
pilot Luke was the aircraftcommander. We we went on to do a
mission, and the father of avery young girl had drowned. So

(28:33):
I at the time, I had young kidsat home, and I kind of put
myself in the shoes of themother that saw the father drown
and so on and so on. Iemotionally, that drained me
that night. Mhmm.
So I I learned to cope with somesituations that are not always
favorable.

Bryan (28:52):
Do you remember that one?

Luc (28:53):
Is that the one in the straits not far from here? Yeah.
Yeah. I I do remember it well.But for sure having kids now I
have three kids of my own, andthat was before I had kids.
And missions do affect youdifferently after you have
children of your own.

Bryan (29:10):
Yeah. I've I've heard that from quite a few people in
the star world that the hardestthing is when there's kids
involved in some way, whetherthey're the person you're
looking for or, you know, it'stheir mom or dad or or what have
you that especially if you havekids, that that is extremely
difficult. From what Iunderstand, like people do learn
to try to separate themselvesfrom the emotional side of

(29:32):
missions, and maybe you guys canspeak to that. But, it sounds
like there are certainsituations where it's it's
really difficult to do that.

Francois (29:38):
Yeah. I think in in, like, in real time during the
STAR mission, during the thetasking itself, most people I'll
I'll speak for myself, I guess.Most people are able to to focus
on prosecute the mission. It'safter the fact. Once you've
landed, once you've debriefed, Ithink of one mission again,

(29:59):
like, this was a 14 year oldgirl back in in Newfoundland
that had fallen off a cliff.
She opened up her skull and wasdeceased. So we brought the body
back, but I I always rememberthat image of this 14 year old
girl in a white dress at thebase of a cliff in a bit of a
water pool. That was really hardfor me after the mission because

(30:22):
my daughter was 12 years oldback home. So so there was that
emotional link, but it it onlybecame apparent to me after the
mission was finished when I wentback home. How did you process
that?
And now that I think about it,it's pretty tough. Yeah. Yeah.
Just talking about it, you know,hugging my kids.

Dan (30:42):
Compartmentalizing. Yeah.

Bryan (30:44):
That's hard.

Francois (30:45):
Yeah. So and my my wife's super supportive too,
supportive as well. So, yeah,it's it's talking about it and
and actually having buddies likelike Dan and Luke. And we we all
go through the same career. Weall we all try to save lives to
the best of our capabilities,but sometimes it just doesn't
happen Mhmm.

(31:05):
That way. So sharing sharingstories, I think, is probably
the best way of of of copingwith that emotion.

Bryan (31:12):
Helping to process the grief and

Dan (31:13):
yeah. Therapy. That's to me, that's how I think of it.
Speaking out loud generally istherapeutic for me to the right
people. Yeah.
Just soundboarding it off ofsomebody.

Bryan (31:23):
Yeah. When it's like a a safe place with people you trust
and who who can understand.

Dan (31:28):
Mhmm.

Bryan (31:28):
Yeah. Your second tour on the Cormorant was to one zero
three Search and Rescue Squadronin Gander, Newfoundland as the
deputy commanding officer in02/2016. You assumed command of
the squadron for your nextposting in 02/2018. Now isn't it
pretty rare for someone to godirectly from DCO to CO in the
same unit?

Francois (31:46):
So actually, in 01/2003, it's a bit of a it's a
bit of a trend. Okay. In thelast ten years, I'd say, the DCO
has normally or historically,been DCO for either one or two
years and become the CO. So it'salmost more of, like, succession
planning. Yeah.
Succession planning. One zerothree Squadron in Gander,
Newfoundland is a very uniquearea to, to work in. Challenging

(32:11):
weather conditions. The theNorth Atlantic is is unreal.
Like, I I had never imaginedsomething as as ferocious as the
Northern Atlantic.
So it comes, and and one zerothree Squadron is an operation
it's a smaller operational base.Missions are very frequent as
well. So all that to say the DCOhas historically become the CO

Dan (32:34):
Okay.

Francois (32:34):
Based on the experience built as the DCO.
Okay. So it's not somethingunique. Very humbling for me. I
came from the mountainousbackground where I became very
proficient in mountains.
I was able to do SAR in somecomplex terrain, topography, and
weather, And the morning Istepped foot at 01:03 in Gander,

(32:57):
extremely humbling. And I'llalways remember my first
operational mission in theAtlantic, and it was nothing
complicated. It was, like, dayVFR, just normal quote unquote
weather, but this fishing boatwas just being rocked like I had
never imagined. And I arrived tothe stern of it in the rest, so

(33:17):
helicopter kind of coming to ahover position just off of the
vessel, and this this vessel wasgoing up and down maybe maybe
ten, fifteen feet smallerfishing vessel, and you have two
crew members on the deck holdingto one portion of the the the
vessel being rocked. And and Ilooked at the vessel.
I was wondering, how am I goingto put a Sartech on that boat?

(33:40):
It's for me, was impossible. Itwas so humbling, but step by
step, working with a flightengineer and understanding how
those boats, work, how theydance with with the seas, became
a reality. And after a year ortwo, I became very comfortable
in that in that environment.

Bryan (33:59):
Okay. The Atlantic is crazy. Like, I don't I flew the
Aurora in Greenwood, so I Ididn't see it from a SAR
perspective. But it was thepower of of that water is
amazing. Like, we would doflights sometimes and we'd be at
1,500 feet and we'd come backcovered in salt spray and need
to take the Aurora through thebirdbath.

(34:20):
Like, it's it is crazy. Yourlast posting before being back
here as CO of four forty twoSquadron was j three SAR officer
at Canadian Joint OperationsCommand or CJOC. Can you
translate j three SAR into plainspeak for us and tell us about
that job?

Francois (34:35):
Yeah. For sure. So CJOC, the operational command,
is the force employment entityentity of of the the Canadian
Armed Forces. They employeverything that has to do with
domestic employment andexpeditionary. So J3 SAR is so
search and rescue falls underthe force employment of that
command.
So the the role of the j c threeSAR is to well, first to look at

(34:57):
all the policies, regulations,make sure that SAR is still up
to the standard of internationalpolicies. The search and rescue
regions fall under the control,the operational control of the
the commander of CGOC as well.So all that is taken care of. We
also accumulate statistics,historical statistics to make
sure that SAR is still relevant,to see if new equipment is

(35:18):
required, if the SAR postureneeds to be modified. We write
the search and rescue directivefor Canada.
So things like that. We workwith Canadian Coast Guard
partners. SAR is a systems ofsystems in Canada, so it's not
only the CAF. Actually, CAF isjust a small portion of SAR, but
SAR is federal, provincial,municipal, regional, private,

(35:40):
and so on and so on. So we keepall of those stakeholders
together, and we make sure thatwe network, that all SAR
partners are in lockstep to makesure that SAR in Canada is as
efficient as it is, and I canspeak from my my witness
perspective as J three SAR,Canada is of the highest

(36:01):
standard in the world.
Like, many, many countries lookat Canada as the goal to be in
SAR. Really? Yeah. Wow.

Bryan (36:10):
As J three SAR, how did coordinating all SAR CAF
entities, other governmentdepartments, and international
partners prepare you to be theCEO of a search and rescue
squadron?

Francois (36:19):
It prepared me very well immensely. Honestly,
knowing the protocols, knowingthe policies, understanding why
SAR exists, how it exists, thefive w's essentially of SAR,
gave me that perspective that asa CO four forty two, I can
explain to the crews at fourforty two why we do SAR, why we
have a posture, why it's atwenty four seven posture. So

(36:43):
all all the reasoning behindSAR, how it was implemented
since the nineteen forties, allstems to how how I could
explain, lead, and take care ofthe personnel, and and and
decisions are still being madein real time from the CGOC
perspective, so I'm able totranslate that to the tactical
air crew and the technicians andexplain why we've changed the

(37:06):
posture or why the governmenthas decided to to to modify a
SAR aspect of things.

Bryan (37:12):
Okay. So almost similar to when you had your background
from being an Aerie and thenbecoming a pilot.

Francois (37:17):
Like, it

Bryan (37:17):
sort of gave you that breadth of knowledge.

Francois (37:19):
Absolutely. 100%. Yeah. Exactly.

Bryan (37:22):
So circling around to kind of the big reason we're
here today, which is to talkabout the two ninety five. As a
helicopter pilot, how are youensuring you are well informed
with the world of fixed wingoperations when it comes to
operating the C295? I do

Francois (37:35):
it by osmosis. I I'm like, personally, I'm very
interested to self educatemyself. The Kingfisher has been
in a transition up until thefirst May twenty twenty five, so
I've learned a lot about theKingfisher. Before making a
decision, I wanna make sure thatthat decision is justified and
it's educated, so I will rely onmy subject matter experts, if

(37:57):
needed, before making adecision, making sure that
people are taken care of. So soreally self educating, being
back in CGOC, and having the Iwas always I was also posted at
the directorate of airrequirements back a few years
before CGOC.
So that gave me the PMO aspectof things, the the project

(38:18):
officer aspect of things. Andwith the CGOC aspect as well,
all integrating that informationallows me to make decisions
focused on the fixed wing SAR.

Bryan (38:29):
Okay. So thanks for all that, Francois. That was
awesome. We're gonna move onand, talk to Luke. Lieutenant
colonel Luke Coates was born inRocky Mountain House, Alberta
and moved to Gatineau, Quebec atthe age of five, where he stayed
until he finished high school.
Inspired by his grandfather, apilot officer during World War
two, he joined the CanadianArmed Forces at the age of 17.

(38:51):
He graduated from the RoyalMilitary College in 2006 with a
bachelor's degree in computerscience. After completing pilot
training, Luke was posted tofour four two transport and
rescue squadron in 02/2009,where he eventually became an
aircraft commander on the CH oneforty nine cormorant. In
02/2013, he was posted to onezero three search and rescue
squadron in Gander,Newfoundland, serving as the

(39:11):
operations officer and chiefcheck pilot. In 02/2017, he was
promoted to the rank of majorand posted back to Comox where
he joined the SAR standards andevaluation team as the national
standard evaluator for the CHone forty nine Cormorant fleet.
In 02/2020, he had the privilegeof becoming the commandant of
the Canadian Forces School ofSearch and Rescue or CIFSAR and
accumulated 100 parachute jumps.Luke is nearing 4,000 flying

(39:36):
hours and has completed over a150 SAR missions. Promoted to
his current rank in 02/2023, hespent the last year earning a
master of defense studies fromRMC. An avid outdoor enthusiast,
he enjoys mountain biking,snowboarding, camping, and
floating down the PuntledgeRiver. Luke's favorite pastime
is spending time with hisfamily, his wife, Megan, and
their three daughters, Lennon,Meili, and Lumi.

(39:58):
Luke, you have over thirty fivehundred hours on the CH one
forty nine Kormoran and havecompleted over 150 SAR missions.
That's a ton of experience. Whatis the biggest lesson you've
learned about conducting SARoperations?

Luc (40:09):
It's funny. As you ask me that question, there are two
individuals that come to mind.One is, sergeant Dan Corkery, a
very experienced flight engineerthat Francois and I both had the
pleasure to serve and work within Gander, Newfoundland at one
zero three squadron. Very,experienced flight engineer. You

(40:33):
know, he remained at the rank ofsergeant.
He mentored, I would say, everyofficer that went through there.
There's him, and then there'ssergeant Steph Clavette, a
senior Sartech currently at theat CSAR Canadian Forces School
of Search and Rescue. And theyboth taught me the same lesson,

(40:53):
which and Steph would say this,slow smooth and smooth is fast.
Mhmm. That's the biggest lessonwhere, you know, you're pretty
motivated to get there and getin there quickly, get the job
done as fast as you can, get theperson to the hospital.
However, when you rush and aretrying to conduct the mission

(41:14):
quicker, it ends up being slowerand riskier and things don't go
as planned. Mhmm. So the biggestlesson in that, I can see being
debriefed by Dan. Even though Iwas aircraft commander, he said
it politely, but that we rushedinto it perhaps a bit more.
Maybe I was comfortable with thespeed that I was going at, but
perhaps some other crew memberswere not.

(41:34):
Another great lesson.

Bryan (41:35):
Mhmm.

Luc (41:36):
Same thing with with staff. So just to to go in one step at
a time, ensuring comms are superclear with everybody, you end up
being a lot more effective and alot faster.

Bryan (41:48):
For sure. And I think for listeners, especially those who
are in the pilot world, thatsaying slow is smooth and smooth
is fast is a favorite of minefor a long time now. It's just
so true. Like you will makeextra mistakes when you rush.
Absolutely, you will.
Like everyone wants to be timelywhen it comes to time sensitive
tasking, but there's adifference between working

(42:12):
quickly and efficiently andactually rushing. And then you
skip steps or you make mistakesand it takes you much longer
than it would have if you justwent at a reasonable pace.

Luc (42:21):
Yeah. Absolutely. But I mean, intuitively, you wanna go
quick.

Bryan (42:24):
Mhmm.

Luc (42:24):
So you have to force yourself to slow down. But
better results occur once youslow down.

Bryan (42:30):
Yeah. Totally. What's the biggest difference between
conducting your first rescuemissions versus now with so many
missions under your belt?

Luc (42:38):
So I felt so grateful to be accepted and become a first
officer, as a CH one forty nineCoromant pilot. And I remember I
will kinda age myself here. Wehad pagers then. I remember my
pager going off for the firsttime, and I was so pumped. Like,
I raised my arm.
I was by myself in my house,raised my hands in the air. I

(43:00):
was like, felt like I won theStanley Cup or won the lottery.
Was like, yeah. I was so pumped.And then going in, and I
remember the mission very welland the aircraft commander at
the time.
I had to do a medevac inNorthern Community, North
Northern BC. But just being sopumped. Now the and also at that

(43:23):
time, the the worse the weatherwas, the more challenging the
weather was, the, you know, themost offshore is what I wanted
and what excited me the most. AsI become older, have, you know,
three children of my own, scaredmyself a few times, got humbled
many times. Mhmm.

(43:43):
I'm still as pumped to getmissions. However, if it happens
to be on a nicer day or maybe alittle bit simpler, I I prefer
those.

Dan (43:52):
You see the beauty in it?

Luc (43:53):
Yeah. Or the very hairy, sketchy, sketchy ones. Yeah.
Let's say perhaps I just gotwiser over time. That's a big
difference.
But Yeah. Still as pumped. Yep.But just evolved over time.

Bryan (44:09):
Yeah. I think that's think that's pretty natural. I
think if you spoke with most,especially I think most people
who have kids, but all of uslike think we're immortal when
we're you're in your twenties orearly thirties. Right? Like and
then you sort of like you said,you scare yourself a couple
times.
You have a few growthexperiences, and you realize,
like, k. You know, there's onlyso much risk that I really wanna

(44:30):
take.

Luc (44:31):
Yeah. Absolutely. It's funny how you mentioned that.
When I I had my first child inGander, Newfoundland. And,
before that, you know, missionswhere you said it it affected
you emotionally.
Before, they really did notaffect me. After having kids, I
all of a sudden realized that,oh, man. I I I am not immortal.
Like, I can pass away. And if Ithat happens, it has, like,

(44:53):
serious consequences.
And that actually played my headfor a little bit between that
and scaring herself a bit more.And even at one point, I even
have to go talk to someone for

Bryan (45:03):
a little

Luc (45:03):
bit, which I wish I'd done before. Because I can like, I
thought as soon as you talk tosomeone, if you're having some
issues with it, you you theystopped you from flying, which
is not the case at all. And Itry and educate a lot of junior
crew members, you know, what howdo you deal with it? Sometimes
it's, it's good to talk aboutwith friends, but also maybe
it's good to talk with aprofessional. Yep.
And we do have lots of, we'relucky now in the calf. Right?

(45:25):
The narrative on this haschanged. There's lots of options
for us to talk, with a lot ofprofessionals. And, it didn't
take very much.
A few sessions, it really helpedme out. I wish I would've I
would've done it sooner, though.

Bryan (45:37):
Yeah. I'm a huge proponent of therapy and talking
to somebody. It can be such ahuge weight off your shoulders,
and, SIF MAP is a great program.You've got so many options.
Like, if you need to talk,you've got your friends.
You've got SIF MAP, which is theCanadian Forces Members
Assistance Program, which isfree. For those listeners who

(45:58):
are serving members, theirfamilies, you can access CifMap
by Googling CFMAP or by calling+1 802687708. You can call that
number twenty four hours a day,three sixty five days a year,
and it is a free service that isconfidential. You've got the
mental health resources on base.And like you said, I think a big

(46:21):
misconception people have islike, oh, if I have any
problems, if I need to talk tosomebody, like, I'm screwed.
My life's over.

Luc (46:27):
No. They're gonna ground me.

Bryan (46:28):
I'll be grounded.

Luc (46:29):
Not the case.

Bryan (46:30):
No. The they don't nobody wants you grounded. Like, the
forces needs its pilots, andthey put a lot of money and time
into you, and it's nobody's goalto ground you.

Luc (46:38):
Yeah. Exactly.

Bryan (46:40):
You served as the commandant of the Canadian
Forces School of Search andRescue or CIFSAR. What did you
learn there that prepared you tobe in a leadership role in the
development of SAR aircrew?

Luc (46:51):
CIVSAR was a great place to work. I had the pleasure of
working side professionals forthree years there. I believe I
got a lot of mentoring done.There are a lot of great leaders
at CIFSAR. It's a well oiledmachine.
The school runs on its own.Mhmm. I had some very strong

(47:12):
master warrant officers at MWOBitterman, who's a chief now,
and MWO Chris Lammoth, whoalmost did more mentoring well,
no. They, for sure, mentored meway more than what I gave to
them. I remember even talking toboth of them.
Like, man, they it was like theywere contributing to my learning
a lot more than I was to them. Igot to see how school is

(47:35):
properly ran. So I learned a loton leadership, you know, dealing
also with a lot of type apersonalities, but just
motivated folks that wanna getthe job done. They helped me
become a much better leader, abit more comfortable with
myself. Some sometimes I'm gonnasay no

Dan (47:50):
Mhmm.

Luc (47:50):
To folks who are very have strong personalities, very
driven. You gain a bit more as aleader. And that transferred
well as my role here at fourteenSquadron. This is a newer
school. It's a new platform.
Things aren't running assmoothly, but I I know what a
well run school is. So it itdoes help me strive to to that

(48:12):
to so that we achieve thatstandard as well. Right.

Bryan (48:16):
And you say things aren't running as smoothly, but you
mean, like, as a naturalconsequence of a new platform
and

Luc (48:20):
Yes. Exactly. CIFSAR has been running the same cookie
cutter courses for I mean, it'sbeen going since '44 was our
course number one. Okay. And, sothey have time to evolve and

Bryan (48:33):
Mhmm.

Luc (48:33):
And get good here. Yes. It's because we are it's a brand
new capability. We're stilllearning the aircraft. We are
producing high level aviatorsand maintainers, but we can get
more efficient.
Right. Yeah. Yeah. And we canalways better ourselves.

Bryan (48:47):
So Yeah. For sure. You have earned two RCAF
commendations, one of which wasfor a challenging rescue of an
injured sailor a 150 miles Westof Port Hardy. Can you take us
through that story?

Luc (48:59):
Yeah. Absolutely. Your task, an injured sailor off a
vessel at night. Weather wassolid IFR. We took off from
Colomox.
We were instantly right aftertakeoff into the Goo. Couldn't
see anything. Unfortunately,there was no serviceable fixed
wing

Bryan (49:19):
Okay.

Luc (49:19):
Assets to to provide us top cover.

Bryan (49:23):
Was this during the time of the buff, or was it

Luc (49:25):
It was buff. Yeah. Buff time. So buff couldn't come.
Aurora, as you check with them,they couldn't make it on time.
We would have had to wait tillthe next day, so it didn't make
sense. We opted to go rightaway. And on the way there, we
had some, generator electricalissues where we lost a lot of
our autopilots radar

Bryan (49:43):
Oh, wow. A bunch

Luc (49:44):
of equipment. And this is funny because I remember going
down to our minimum equipmentlist and having discussions with
Francois and on what you needand don't need, and we were just
okay. We had just the minimumamount of equipment to legally
do this in a mission. And, like,in training, we would never push
that far. For sure.
And then we it was a challenginghoist at night. No illumination.

(50:08):
The hardest thing on a for aCromat pilot is, at night and in
bad is it in bad weathers, youhave no horizon. So, you have
this big ship that's moving upand down by, like, thirty
thirty, 40 feet banking left andright. And then all of a sudden,
you're like, am I the one who'smoving up or down, or is it the
vessel?

(50:28):
It's super easy to get yourgyros mixed up, especially when
you don't have all theautopilots working for you. So
that was quite challenging. Youreally have to I, you know, I
really have to fight to rely onmy attitude indicator and and
other equipment that I had left,but we did get the job done
safely. We got the injuredsailor to Victoria. And then he

(50:54):
yeah.
We got the job done, went home,and lived to fly another day.

Bryan (50:59):
Was that, like how scared were you? Was that a scary one?
Or were you just focused ongetting it done?

Luc (51:07):
It was maybe a little bit scary, but it wasn't I've had
some other much scary

Bryan (51:11):
moments. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Luc (51:14):
It was challenging. Yeah. It was very it was more
challenging than scary.

Bryan (51:18):
Yeah. You'll I guess, like, you were really stripped
down in capability.

Luc (51:21):
Stripped down capability. I remember being a bit nervous
lowering the Sartecs onto thevessel because my I didn't have
all the autopilot, so I wasn'tas stable.

Bryan (51:28):
Right. And I've heard I've heard winching is, like, a
100% about being a stable plant.

Luc (51:32):
Yes. When you're not as stable and you have a Sartech a
130 feet beneath you, if youstart moving around, it will
have it will exponentially moveto you know, it's like a
pendulum at the bottom. Right?It will start moving him a lot
more and, but it end up workingout.

Bryan (51:49):
Awesome. So you qualified on the Kingfisher to better
understand crew experiences.Still, traditionally, you're a
cormorant pilot. So how are youensuring we are training to
employ these aircraft in thebest manner possible?

Luc (52:02):
As we talked about earlier, at the beginning there of the
podcast, I am an operator atheart. I love to fly. And, I'm a
big believer in in leading fromthe front. So the best way for
me to understand this aircraftto fight for what need if no

(52:23):
changes that need to to occurand to gain a bit more
credibility amongst engineersand operators was to learn it
myself and to go through thetraining program that we have
New England grads go through. SoI went through the program
myself, learned a lot.
I was at at that point, becauseI've been through the training
system so much, I was able tofind efficiencies. So the course

(52:47):
is running a bit a bit smoother.Also, when we're trying to
liaise with engineers on issuesthat operators are experiencing,
I have my voice I have a lotmore weight because I'm like,
I've experienced this my myself.Yeah. You've gained credibility.
You gained credibility, like,when we were talking about the,
the buses coming coming offline.Now I can explain a bit more

(53:08):
because I'm like, I've seen it.It's not not good. So you just
have more credibility when youspeak, and so it makes you a bit
more efficient at at affectingchange. As well as the CEO,
being a light colonel, I findthat when I go around and try
and talk to the troops, it's abit hard to get a finger on the
pulse, really, because that'sthe first time I noticed now

(53:29):
that, you the conversation'schanged.
And there's a good reason forthat. However, when you're in
the aircraft, as a crew member,you really get a good feel for
how how things are going in thesquadron

Bryan (53:38):
For sure.

Luc (53:39):
How morale is, any issues coming up here, you know, you
become almost like a spy. You'rejust embedded with the group,
and that's it.

Bryan (53:47):
Well, because there's like, flying is kind of the
great equalizer. Right? Like A

Luc (53:50):
100%.

Bryan (53:50):
Rank is is for the most part left at the door.

Luc (53:53):
It is a 100%.

Bryan (53:54):
Everybody's part of the crew now. And like you talked
earlier about how, you know, youwould have like the the least
ranked member of the crew wouldstill should still be debriefing
you on on things. So there's amore even exchange of
information.

Luc (54:07):
Absolutely. And now I'm, like, the the newest, less
proficient person on the cruise.It's very humbling, but it's
great. I love it. And it's greatto see some young crew members
rise and mentor me and teach me.
It's awesome. And above all, youknow, keeping it fun. I'm having
a blast doing it. I feel verylucky that I got to learn the

(54:27):
Kingfisher at this point. Like,you're very blessed, loving
every minute of it.

Bryan (54:30):
Yeah. It is like speaking from experience yesterday, like,
getting a chance to check outthe Sims, go for a flight, it's
an amazing aircraft. So, yeah,you guys are fortunate.

Luc (54:40):
Yeah. The CAF has a lot of great opportunities. Like, I've,
I've had tremendous luck, butmany p many know. If you're
interested in joining, there'slots of great avenues, a lot of
lot of you can have a lot of funin this career.

Bryan (54:53):
If I'll I'll say this. If if I was still in, I would be
wishing for a slot on theKingfisher. Like, that that plan
is really, really impressive.You're sold. Yep.
Absolutely. Okay. We're runninga little short on time, so we
are going to ask Dan hisquestions in the next episode
and move straight into the finalquestions for this episode. What

(55:14):
is the most important thing eachof you does to stay ready to do
your job?

Luc (55:19):
I often tell members here at fourteen Squadron that if
things are not good for you,home, in your personal life, how
am I going to expect you toperform well at work? So it's
keeping that balance, makingsure you, get proper, you know,

(55:40):
sleep hygiene. I don't it soundsvery it's like a lot of common
sense. But sleep hygiene,working out, being in the
moment, spending time with yourfamily and friends, not making
work all of your life, havingother other hobbies, being well
rounded, and focusing on, youknow, realizing your own new

(56:03):
limits as well. Sometimes youneed to take a little step back
or slow down.
If and if you can remain wellrounded, I believe it keeps you
well prepared.

Bryan (56:13):
Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Francois (56:17):
How about you, Francois? I think communication
is key, so I try to keep, commschannels open as much as
possible. That that reallyhelps. Trust your team, empower
your team. That's that'ssomething that I I always focus
on.
And for me, keep flying. I I flyquite a bit as a commanding
officer. That allows me to stayproficient, to stay credible, to

(56:40):
understand who I'm working with,because like we said already,
flying brings everythingeveryone to the common
denominator. You can actuallysee the essence of the the human
nature when you're in a SARrole, and continue to mentor
junior members essentially.

Bryan (56:57):
Okay. How about you, Dan?

Dan (57:00):
Me, on a personal level, I'm gonna just almost combine
their answers and say thatdefinitely, first and foremost
is be ready, as in happy andsorted out on your own time. So
if you have something in thebackground that's getting at
you, this is me I'm talkingabout, it needs to be solved.
But I'm pretty good at takingaction, if I have to change in

(57:24):
my life, I've made big changes.Mhmm. Do what you have to do,
but don't let it linger.
Solve that problem. And thensecondly is is just too simple.
It's fly. You have to beproficient. Like, there's
nothing worse than the stress ofgetting into a situation where
you start to realize I'm onlyjust keeping up because I need
to be like quite a bit aheadright now, not be focused at all

(57:46):
on flying.
And I I have hit that point inthe past and I'll say it's not
great and it's important to beproficient.

Bryan (57:54):
I agree with that. And I I think everybody's been there
at some point. Like, I found Iused to get that sometimes if it
had been a while since I ranemergencies in the sim. And
like, I'd go I'd go to my nextsim and I'd be like, kind of
have almost like an anxietybuilt up, but then you go and
tackle it and you feel great.Because like now you have that
confidence that you'reproficient and like if anything
happens, you know how to handleit.
Absolutely. You and your creware tight. And I think that's

(58:17):
really important. Yep. What doyou guys think makes a great SAR
pilot, whether that be fixedwing or rotary?

Dan (58:26):
I think I mean, put simply, I just think open mindedness
from the crew. And that goes toeverybody from the AC down, but
that you are flying with yourcrew, listening to their input
because, you know, you gottacatch sometimes the smallest
inputs amount to somethingimportant. So I think it's
really important that people arehumble and listen to what people

(58:49):
are saying. You have to, in theend, make a decision. Like, from
an aircraft man or role,somebody has to make a decision.
So at the end, you have to dothat. But I just think that the
entire crew is open to thesituation and logical, take a
step forward and make adecision.

Francois (59:05):
Okay. Francois? What makes a great SAR pilot?
Definitely not Luke's mustacheearlier this year. That was
terrible.
Now I think flexibility andfluidity. So no, let's start off
with training. Training,calmness, experience makes a
good SAR pilot, and stayingflexible and fluid. SAR is

(59:27):
anything but scripted, so youneed to stay, to take Dan's
words, open minded. Overplanning sometimes can actually
backfire, and I've seen it inSAR.
If you over plan, you're nowpainting yourself in a corner.
So almost procrastination bydesign, when you get a SAR
tasking, actually will help youto to to open up to the the

(59:51):
fluidity and the flexibility ofthat SAR tasking.

Bryan (59:53):
Are you saying, like, just so I understand, basically,
like, if you cover too manycontingencies ahead of time,
like, I do if this happens, I'lldo this. If this happen, then it
stops you from remaining openminded to

Francois (01:00:04):
kind how you need to react. Yeah. Yeah. You summarize
it really well.

Luc (01:00:08):
Yeah. Yeah. I would say in the siren environment, nothing
ever goes to plan, or in myexperience in anyways. So if you
just preplan everything, itwon't it's almost for nothing
because it won't happen thatway, and then you'll as far as
to start painting yourself to gothis route, which may not be
necessarily the route you shouldtake so.

Francois (01:00:25):
Yeah. And I've seen aircrew that come either from a
different background or theirnature is different, and the
they they're comfortable inplanning, but then they cannot
deviate from that plan based onthe SARS situation, and and
they're just unable to adapt.And that's a very big problem.

(01:00:45):
So you need to build a verybasic framework for a SARS
situation, but no more than thatand evolve as the plan unfolds.

Bryan (01:00:53):
Okay. Do you have more to add?

Luc (01:00:57):
No. Just be mentally resilient, always striving to
better yourself, open minded.Those are the three three key
points.

Bryan (01:01:06):
Awesome. What advice would you give to a listener who
is in training and wants to be aSTAR pilot? Just the same thing
that would you

Francois (01:01:15):
we just said, stay open minded, have fun. I I I
can't focus enough on that. Havefun. Have fun. And be prepared
for anything.
SAR is there there's no prepredescribed situation. It can
be anything from day, night,boats, mountains, Arctic,
domestic airspace. So just stayopen minded.

Bryan (01:01:35):
Okay.

Luc (01:01:36):
I would say it would help you if you perform very well
during your pilot phasetraining, as in normally the top
students get the top picks. I'mI'm not sure if that still still
works that way.

Bryan (01:01:48):
Last time I heard, yeah.

Luc (01:01:50):
Yeah. So if you finish first or second on your course
and there's some SAAR spotsavailable, you will definitely
increase your chances onbecoming a SAAR pilot, which I
think it's the best place to be.So

Bryan (01:02:03):
light a fire in your belly. If you're coming up to
your phase one or phase twocourse

Luc (01:02:07):
Phase two.

Bryan (01:02:08):
Yeah. Take it seriously. Work hard.

Luc (01:02:10):
Exactly. Use it as motivation to perform better.

Bryan (01:02:12):
Yeah.

Francois (01:02:15):
I have

Dan (01:02:15):
a lot of friends that fly other platforms and I think a
lot of them from there, youknow, where they sit, they're
standing is that their platformis amazing and I'm sure it is.
But if you're planning to be aSAR pilot, I think you will have
zero regrets. It's it's just afabulous job, amazing community,

(01:02:36):
very rewarding. You just kindacan't go wrong. I think it's
great to even all the way downto your family.
We'll we'll say good work toyou. Awesome.

Luc (01:02:47):
Yeah. Yeah. We are lucky if you talk to, I'd say, you know,
most SAR operators andmaintainers, like, the level of
work satisfaction is very high.Like, I don't know very I don't
know it's hard for me to thinkof someone who who made it
through SAR in whatevercapacity. I'd say everyone

(01:03:09):
pretty much enjoys it.
So we're we're very lucky. It'sa very rewarding and fun and
meaningful job.

Bryan (01:03:15):
Yeah. I don't think I've met anyone working in SAR who
didn't love it.

Luc (01:03:22):
I'm biased, so I didn't wanna say it that way, but I
agree.

Bryan (01:03:26):
So just to wrap this up, what is something the public
should know about what SAR crewsdo that maybe doesn't make the
headlines?

Dan (01:03:33):
I would say that SAR crews are out training a lot. We spend
so much time training. And ifanybody is coming into a
situation where SAR is going tobe required, say it quick. Say
it before, it's a huge problem.Because our assets and all the
teams all the way from the RCAFto marine to GSAR are all

(01:03:55):
standing by and excited andready and prepped to do it.
So if anybody ever has the ideathat they don't want to make
that call, if this is, you know,for the public, I would say make
it while, you know, whilesomething's not too big of a
problem. Yeah. Yeah.

Bryan (01:04:13):
Okay, guys. That's gonna wrap up part one of our chat for
today. I really wanna thank youfor having me here. I really
enjoyed hearing about yourflight training and getting some
of your insights of the SARworld, and I'm really looking
forward to talking all thingstwo nine five for the next one.
So thank you guys very much.
Alright. That wraps up part oneof our chat with Luc, Francois,

(01:04:33):
and Dan. Tune in to our nextepisode to hear all about Dan's
involvement in the search andrescue world and the path that
led him to the two ninety five,as well as some in-depth
questions on the two ninety fiveKingfisher. Do you have any
questions or comments aboutanything you've heard in this
show? Would you or someone youknow make a great guest, or do
you have a great idea for ashow?
You can reach out to us at [e-mail] or

(01:04:56):
on all social media at at podpilotproject. And be sure to
check out that social media forlots of great videos of our RCAF
and mission aviation aircraft.As always, we'd like to thank
you for tuning in and ask foryour help with the big three.
That's like and follow us onsocial media, share with your
friends, and follow and rate usfive stars wherever you get your
podcasts. That's all for now.

(01:05:17):
Thanks for listening. Keep theblue side up. See you. Engineer,
shut down all four. Shuttingdown all four engines.