Episode 65: The Kingfisher: Developing, acquiring and flying the CC-295 Kingfisher Part 3 - Luc Coates, Francois Fasquelle, Dan Faux

In this episode, we continue our conversation with:

• Lieutenant-Colonel Luc Coates, Commanding Officer of 418 Search and Rescue Operational Training Squadron
• Lieutenant-Colonel Francois Fasquelle, Commanding Officer of 442 Transport and Rescue Squadron
• Major Dan Faux, subject matter expert on the CC-295 Kingfisher

We dive deeper into the Kingfisher, exploring how simulation and training are shaping new SAR pilots, and how the aircraft has been performing in real-world operations so far. And perhaps most intriguing for our listeners: we take on every rumour and criticism we could find about the Kingfisher — separating fact from fiction and busting the biggest myths.

Episode Transcript

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Bryan (00:58):
Alright. We're ready for departure here at the pilot
project podcast, the best sourcefor stories and advice from RCAF
and mission aviation pilotsbrought to you by Sky's
Magazine. I'm your host, BrianMorrison, and today we're doing
a very special on locationinterview in Comox, BC with
lieutenant colonel FrancoisPasquale, COO of four four two
Transport and Rescue Squadron,lieutenant colonel Luke Coates,

(01:18):
COO of four eighteen Search andRescue Operational Training
Squadron, and major Dan Fox, aqualified Kingfisher pilot who
is a subject matter expert onthe c two ninety five. Gents,
welcome back to the show, andthank you once again for having
me here in Comox. Listeners cancheck out part two to hear about
Dan's career and experiences inthe search and rescue world and
what brought him to the twoninety five as well as some

(01:40):
in-depth questions on theKingfisher.
For today, we'll be finishingthose in-depth questions as well
as going through every rumor Icould find about problems that
the c two ninety five hassupposedly had. Without further
ado, let's get back into talkingto Luke about training crews.
Given your operationalbackground, what lessons from
your star missions directlyinfluence how you train

(02:01):
Kingfisher crews?

Luc (02:03):
Do you remember earlier how I said and we both agreed on the
same slow, smooth, smooth discfast? Well, we've been working
very hard at 14, pushingeveryone's on the same, has the
same mission mission focus toget crews qualified. For
example, we got May 1 was a bigpush. We have Greenwood right

(02:24):
now coming up in January 26.Everyone's pushing so hard.
However, I've noticed that it'sit was starting to even go a
little bit too much. Mhmm. Andit's sort of that experience
from my being an AC where Irealized, hey. We actually have
to, like, slow down a little bitand recage and make sure we're
all going on the same direction.So that's that's kind some

(02:45):
transferable lessons from my youknow, that I learned to go to
that slower is actually quicker,and, it's the same thing, you
know, leading a squadron or,where where those those skills
are trans transferred into alead more like a leadership
decision.

Bryan (03:02):
Mhmm. And we sort of we we touched on that topic
yesterday when we were sort ofchatting and meeting each other.
And, for the listeners, like, Iwould like to say that it is
refreshing to hear a leader,especially somebody in a CO bill
it, being willing to recognize,like, people are being pushed
hard right now and maybe almosttoo hard or maybe not to say
that things were going too hard,but we're starting to reach

(03:24):
limits because not all leadershave that ability to recognize
that. I think there's a neverbeen in that position, but I
would imagine there's a certainamount of pressure to produce.
You have two years in thatposition.
And you have a lot of peoplestanding on your shoulder
saying, like, we need this now.We need this by this date, and
that has to happen. So it's it'snice to hear to hear a leader in

(03:46):
that position who's willing tosay, like, hey. We have to be
careful here.

Luc (03:50):
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, just like when you're an
aircraft commander, your job'sto bring back your your crew
safely home. Right? Mhmm.
It's the same thing as acommanding officer. You want to
keep your everyone in yoursquadron, squadron members
healthy, and it's important notto have a, you know, one year

(04:10):
end goal. I want folks to stayhealthy and remain in the calf
for the next five, ten, twentyyears. You've got to keep a long
term goal and make decisionsbased on what's best for them
for the long term, not just theshort term targets.

Bryan (04:26):
Yeah. I respect that. We've mentioned this, but pilots
can be trained purely on the simand be fully qualified to
operate the Kingfisher. In fact,from what we saw yesterday,
there is a high level ofsophisticated simulation used
for both maintainers andaircrew. Is that going to be the
norm, or will there be a blendof time in the sim and the
aircraft?

Luc (04:45):
As I mentioned earlier, we try and conduct as much training
as we can in simulators. It isjust more reliable, more
efficient. You can run it alltimes of the day. I mean, our
sims are going from six in themorning to sometimes all the way
midnight nonstop. However, it'sstill good to get a bit of
realism.
And where right now we'relacking a little bit is even

(05:07):
though we prep all of ourtraining in the simulator, it's
still good to throw a pump to avessel to an actual vessel. It's
still good to real life. In reallife. It's great to see Sartex
parachuting for real out to avessel. So there's simulation is
great, but it's good to get thatconfirmation check and
confidence that you've done itfor real in a training

(05:29):
environment then before you godo it on a mission for the first
time.

Bryan (05:32):
Yeah. That makes sense. How have you shaped the training
pipeline for new Kingfishercrews?

Luc (05:40):
Yeah. So right now, we run our air crew, and it's a
combination of pilots, Axos,and, ASOPs. So, like, sensor
operators, air combat systemofficers, and pilots. There's
essentially, it's four crews.Sartics are trained separately
because it's a bit quicker forthem.
Mhmm. And they they progressthrough the course together.

(06:04):
They train together. So it'skinda nice because they operate
in the and from day right offthe beginning, they start
operating as a crew as you wouldin real life. So not sometimes
you're in silo, but you're oftenjoint together.
For training. For training.Yeah. Which which, I mean,
you're training like you fightYeah. Right off the get go,
which is which is nice.
The courses are about fivemonths long. I'm hoping to

(06:26):
shorten it and, you know,hopefully get around to the four
month mark as we get better anda bit more efficient. And three
quarters of it is all in thesim. For pilots, there's four
flights at the end of it. Andright now for axles and sensor
operators, there's about 10flights, but we're looking to
improve our simulating lessonsand reduce it to maybe, like, a

(06:48):
seven seven flights, hopefully.

Bryan (06:49):
Okay. What is different about training crews for this
aircraft compared to theHercules or the Buffalo?

Luc (06:56):
Dan, I'll let you answer that one.

Dan (06:58):
Yeah. I mean, I'll go with the obvious point that I think
that central sensor station ischanging our tactics. We're
having to add in effectively anew trade. So we have our
airborne electronic sensoroperator. Like our ASOPs come
from Cyclone, from maritimehelicopters, and maritime patrol

(07:19):
fixed wing.
And we're trying to blend in thecapability that they bring. So
as we learn more and more andour our tactics in the
background are developing, Ithink we're just focusing more
and more on how we're dealingwith that. So instead of the old
plane, which was like anavigator and two pilots and

(07:41):
then the back end, now we havethree groups. We have the front
that works well and autonomouslywith all that new that fancy kit
we have. Gives them a fair bitof time where they can handle
the flying part.
Now we have this middle groupthat we're bringing into all of
our crew tactics and how wefight the aircraft. So that is
the difference. How we trainversus the old one, that also

(08:02):
has its own unique simulator,its own unique very broad course
to bring

Luc (08:07):
the

Dan (08:08):
sensor operators and the tacos, tactical coordinators up
to speed. So that's the focus.That's what is new and fancy on
the street here. And I wouldsay, you know, what we've been
wrapping our heads around forthe last few years, we could fly
fixed wing SAR with the oldplanes, but, we're burying the
sensors and the tactics rightnow. Yeah.
We're blending them in.

Luc (08:28):
I can tell you one thing that has not changed, and we
have to drive it into our aircrew even more, is that aviate,
navigate, communicate. It is sotempting in this aircraft
because there are so many shinybuttons all over the place, and
you just wanna push them,especially, like, operators.
Right? That it's easy to bothget two heads down at the same
time or to get tunnel visioninto a certain camera or

(08:53):
whatever system you want youwanna operate or or utilize, but
it's crucial to to aviate,navigate, communicate remains
true even in this complexaircraft, and that that's
something we we must strive toto continue.

Bryan (09:07):
Yeah. I can see yesterday, I was given the
opportunity to actually sit inthe seat and fly the two ninety
five, which was incredible. Andone of the things that I noticed
was because there is so muchinformation being presented to
you and it is, like, afascinating thing, it would be
really easy to become scopelocked. And like I was saying, I
was turning, for example. AndI'm looking into the HUD and

(09:27):
making sure everything is kindof where it needs to be.
But then it's easy to forgetlike, oh, yeah, I'm turning.
Like, I should be looking aheadof the airplane. Like, is there
traffic in that direction?Right? Because that's the base
that's aviate and aviatenavigate communicate.
So I I totally see what you'resaying.

Dan (09:42):
Yeah. That's a great point that, and from a pilot
perspective, the training, yeah,the automation and use of all
that technology has definitelybecome an important part of how
we communicate it to the otherpilot so we all understand what
the plane is doing.

Francois (09:58):
Because you

Dan (09:58):
can, in a second, have the plane operating more or less on
its own as you saw yesterday.You can quickly set the plane
up. It gives you enoughindication. It'll actually tell
you how far to set the powerlever to exactly hold the speed
you're on. Remember that's the

Bryan (10:12):
Or a bar.

Dan (10:12):
There's a bar. So we have so much info that you can kind
of set it and start to forget itin a sense. We are definitely
learning to stay on top of theautomation and regiment into our
standard operating procedures.Exactly. Yep.

Luc (10:26):
Yep. Yeah. We wanna avoid you police, yeah, each other and
let crews police us too to avoidtwo heads down at the same time.

Bryan (10:34):
Yes. Coming from a sensor platform, that's huge. It's
really, really easy to get superfocused on the mission and
everyone's excited and there's awhole bunch of like new toys
almost that you have to manage.And yeah, you have to like we
used to basically say, okay, I'mheads down. Like we would just
do a call out straight upbecause it was a way that the

(10:54):
other two people on the flightdecks, we had a flight engineer,
are aware of that.
And then the other guy's notgoing to know, without thinking,
just start, oh, I'm also headsdown. Like it's a it's an
important thing for sure. Goingback to your back enders, your
sensor operators, one thing Iwill say is they seem to
absolutely love their jobs. Wehad, I believe it was Ben and

(11:14):
Jeff yesterday. Mhmm.
And, you know, Ben was having ahaving a great time there on the
camera and doing his thing, andhe had a huge grin on his face
the whole time. Jeff was tellingme about how the Aesop's really
enjoy that there's an addeddepth to the trade on the
Kingfisher because they there isno flight engineer. So they're
taking on some of themaintenance roles. They're able
to fuel. They're able to dochecks.

(11:35):
And he said it's kind of addedsome depth to the trade. Like,
he was a I believe he said hewas an acoustician before on the
Aurora. And so, you know, youhave one job. Right? Like, it's
very stovepiped on the Aurora.
Everyone has their job. We workas a team, but everyone has
their kind of thing that they'redoing. And he was saying he was
really enjoying the added depththat this aircraft adds.

Dan (11:53):
Yeah.

Luc (11:53):
So not just the maintenance task. They're also the safety
person for who the Sartexdeploy. They have to drop
bundles of survival gear, pumpsfor a vessel that's sinking,
life rafts, or whatever else theSartex may require. So they they
play an intricate role that, ismuch more than operating
sensors.

Bryan (12:14):
Yeah. They're kind of a sensor operator. Some of the
tasks of a flight engineer, someof the tasks of a loadmaster,
it's very interesting.

Luc (12:21):
Yep.

Bryan (12:23):
Dan, something that blew me away when we flew the
Kingfisher yesterday was theamount of information available
to the pilot. You got a heads updisplay or HUD with a display
that is absolutely full ofinformation yet still incredibly
user friendly. You've even got acouple forms of synthetic vision
that we've discussed through theHUD. Can you tell us how hard it
was to learn to embrace thesenew technologies as someone

(12:43):
who's come from like a morebasic technological aircraft?

Dan (12:47):
Yep. I think I can speak to that a little bit. And I think
it's a great journey and onethat lots of people in the
future are going be able to,associate with as they get onto
the plane. I'll just say this.So we get into the simulator, is
the most just an absolutelyperfect environment to do this
because it's so forgiving as youlearn.

(13:07):
And so for me, someone who waslike at best on an HSI and an
EADI more or less, Twin Otterdid a little better than that.
Twin Otter had somewhat of a arepeated head up display, so it
almost looked like a a HUD in anice small glass instrument, but

Bryan (13:22):
And sorry. Just for the listeners, the EHSI, EADI, those
are flight instruments to helpyou fly in bad weather.

Dan (13:28):
Yeah. There's like an electronic compass card Yep. And
then another one is anelectronic artificial horizon.
Yep. And you get to combine thetwo basically to navigate your
aircraft and control it.
So coming from a fairly basicplatform, going on to this one,
I'll say that for the futurefolks, expect that Collin's

(13:48):
system that they've built islike a language. That's the best
way I can put it. So when I getin there, like a lot of things,
when you're thrown into a newsubject and you're like, you
know, Dan, you will learnMicrosoft Project. You go in and
the first day you get in there,it's a little daunting and, and
you just realize this is goingto be difficult and it's kind of
you get that stress that comeswith all these type of things

(14:11):
that tells you, okay, starthitting the books and like going
at it because you know nothingright now.

Bryan (14:16):
You're getting the fire hose.

Dan (14:18):
The fire hose. I'd just say the way the curved work for me
was that it took, I honestlythink, close to a hundred hours
where I'm thinking, I think I'mdoing well, you know, fifty
hours and you're like, oh man,this flight's going great. And
then the plane just doessomething you did not expect and
then I got to go back to thedrawing board. Holy cow. I
obviously don't understand thelogic in the system there.

(14:40):
But you hit a point where all ofa sudden as your mind knows the
language, it's wild. For me on apersonal level, all of a sudden
you go out one day and you justthink, oh my gosh, the workload
is so low here. This plane isgoing so fast and perfectly
articulating the information Ineed to know back to me. Like

(15:00):
the chevron that demonstratesessentially, you know, depending
on the state of the aircraft,but how much power you could set
to exactly hold that speed inthe attitude you're in now or
angle of attack indicatortelling you exactly what the
status of your wing is includingyour configuration. Oh my gosh,
once these things are part ofthe language and your brain

(15:20):
knows it, it is phenomenallyeasier to fly.
That's the end result to mystory is, wow, you think it's so
difficult to absorb it and thenone day you walk and you think,
man, the Buffalo and every otherplane was so much more
difficult. And that even goes towe have an electronic flight bag
that helps me with flightplanning. We have an electronic

(15:41):
performance calculator. Takesone hour of work, puts it into
five minutes. Like, the toolsare incredible.
They will you'll just go to bedsmiling and fall asleep and
dream about them. It's prettycool. Like, really is if you are
a pilot, you can nerd out allday long on the stuff, in the
aircraft and just you'llappreciate it for years and

(16:03):
years.

Bryan (16:04):
It's That's awesome. So we spoke about SAREX twenty
twenty four earlier. During theexercise, you folks tested the
maintenance pack up kit or puck.Can you tell us about that?

Francois (16:13):
Yeah, sure. So this was an informal test. It was an
opportunity basis during SAREXtwenty twenty four where we we
demonstrated the capability todeploy the Kingfisher and its
maintenance capabilityelsewhere. We did it locally, so
we we took our team, ourtechnician teams with the tools
and the support elements about500 meters on the other side of

(16:36):
the hangar, and we supported forthat those few days, the
Kingfisher, but remotely. So wedid not tap in to the four forty
two and the normal maintenancefrom the main operating base.
We demonstrated that we wereable to support it in a
deployable manner.

Bryan (16:52):
Which is a pretty huge capability. Like, that's
significant to be able to,without help from home base, go
on the road, have your ownsystems, have your own parts,
whatever it is that you need tobring, your tools and all that,
and actually support theaircraft.

Francois (17:06):
Yeah. Well, it speaks to probably major search
prolonged searches. If you'regonna deploy a Kingfisher for
two, three, four, five days, twoweeks in Kamloops, for instance,
well, now we've demonstrated thecapability that we can deploy
that asset independently,autonomously, and completely
live on our own in a deployedenvironment.

Bryan (17:26):
Mhmm. That's awesome. So, Francois, now that there has
been a chance to use the variousaircraft types together in
exercises and operations, canyou tell us how the rotary
assets and the Kingfisher willcoordinate and work together?

Francois (17:38):
Yeah. The I think the how doesn't change much. The
concept of ops in SAR remains,the framework remains the same,
where you have a top coverasset, a search asset, which is
the fixed wing SAR, platform,and the rotary wing asset, which
is essentially the rescueplatform. What changes, and
we've mentioned this alreadymany times, is the

(17:59):
modernization, the the accuracyof information, the ability to
investigate a target, a victim,and to have that fixed wing SAR
asset with all their modernsensors pinpoint within a few
square meters, the location of avictim and to hone in for the
the rescue of that victim. Itwill become a, an elevated top

(18:23):
cover platform as well.
So for whether it's mountainousor maritime search and rescue,
this aircraft, the theKingfisher, is now some sort of
a mini AWACS, but for SAR. It'sgonna be able to be the on scene
commander. It'll be able toassess winds, weather, a
communication platform, andthat's above and beyond the

(18:44):
detection capability that itbrings to the game. Okay. So a
very complementary taskassociated system.

Bryan (18:52):
Okay. Awesome. So let's shift gears and talk about real
world missions and performanceof the Kingfisher. This one's
for all of you. The Kingfisherbegan taking on operational
missions on May 1.
Did that feel like a significantmilestone after all the work
that has been put into thistransition?

Dan (19:08):
I got to do a couple before May 1. I was lucky I was on
those ones we spoke aboutearlier. But bottom line is it
has been a fairly long road toget there and I think May 1
meant a lot to everybody. Ithink it meant something to
people all the way up to retiredgenerals to see it because a lot
of people have touched theproject and cared a lot about
it, you know, succeeding andgetting to the end line. So

(19:30):
yeah, from maintainers throughthe contractors, we have had
contractors with us since thestart too.
Like Mhmm. I mean, I think ofall the faces, you know, in 2017
writing these courses. I wasthere when we were doing it,
like, yeah, it means a lot to alot of people and it's been a
part of people's careers at thispoint.

Bryan (19:49):
Yeah. I mean, you're talking about eight years now.
Right?

Dan (19:51):
Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

Francois (19:53):
I I've seen and I think I was mentioning this to
you maybe offline here, but I'veseen a wind of change the moment
that the 05/01/2025 wasannounced and the RCF was
focused on that that timelinelast year, so about a year
before May 1 timeline, everyonecame together, contractors, RCF,
technicians, the project, tomake May 1 a reality. So it was

(20:18):
everyone became motivated,everyone had that sense of
purpose, everyone knew that thetarget date was a real thing now
and not just an imaginary or afiction emblem, and and we
actually over delivered in thesense that like Dan is saying we
were ready before the May 1because everyone was in
lockstep, the entire institutionwas motivated to bring the

(20:40):
Kingfisher to an operationalstatus, and we've launched the
Kingfisher twice before the May1 on SAR missions and several
times since the May 1. So a hugerelief. Everyone is extremely
proud. We, as an institution, Ithink we took our time, a
deliberate time to make surethat we build the foundation
blocks.
So think we did it right. Like,if you look at it, yes, there

(21:01):
were delays. Yes, there werechallenges. But those were
surmountable challenges, andwe've took we've we we took
measured steps to make sure thatnothing was missed and that
everything was safe so that theMay 1 was a full success story
in terms of the SAAR.

Bryan (21:18):
Awesome. So Francois, has any SAAR mission stood out since
the Kingfisher began flyingoperational missions on May 1?

Francois (21:27):
Yeah. I think we can come back to that, that mission,
a couple of weeks after the May1 where an aircraft with one
solo pilot crashed, about 80nautical miles Northeast of
Prince George. That was based onmy career in SAR, pretty much a
textbook SAR mission. All so sowe've talked about SAR as a

(21:48):
systems of systems in Canada.It's not only about the RCF, but
provincial assets, federalassets, so on are involved.
This one was exactly that. Sothat aircraft had crashed. ATC,
the air traffic controller, hadnoticed that the aircraft had
disappeared under the radarsignature. An ELT had been
detected. An emergency locatortransmitter had been detected.

(22:09):
The local RCMP helicopter hadbeen flown on scene. Weather
severe weather was rolling in,so the the Kingfisher and the
Cormorant was tasked. TheKingfisher arrived on scene with
severe weather rolling in. Theywere unable to parachute the
Sartex on scene directly, butdue to the severity of the
injured pilot, they they decidedto parachute the Sartex about 10

(22:34):
kilometers off scene with theability of the RCMP helicopter
to transport that that victim toto the parachuted site. So
extremely positive outcome.
First, for a survivor out of aplane crash, that is it's it's
an anomaly, essentially. Like,I've done in my career many
plane crashes or helicoptercrashes rescue, and

(22:56):
unfortunately, nine out of 10times its body parts that we
recover and not and not walkinghuman beings. So that was very
beneficial for the kingfisher toable to parachute Saartex into
the close vicinity, and this wasjust minutes before the storm
was actually rolling in, wherewe had now the cormorant rescue

(23:17):
capability to come in aboutthirty to forty five minutes
after and rescue extract thesearch and rescue technicians
and the victim, bring them backto Saint George. So textbook
mission, very positive outcome.

Luc (23:30):
The the scientist said as soon as he landed, like, minute
after, started to hail.

Bryan (23:33):
Oh, wow. That's crazy. Would they have been able to
jump if it was hailing actively?

Francois (23:38):
Probably not in that location, because hail I mean,
the the hail itself is onething, but just the the
thunderstorm activity, all thatconvective activity would have
prevented a safe parachuteinsertion. Wow.

Bryan (23:50):
So the timing just worked out?

Luc (23:52):
The timing was good, and and the teamwork with all those
entities worked out extremelywell. And after the Sartex
jumped the outs, because Ialways wanna keep a note when
you're flying, was starting toclose, they had to leave and fly
out towards their out. And theycouldn't necessarily see the
Sartex. Like, they had to savethemselves. Wow.

(24:12):
Make sure they entered a saferegime of flight. And then after
confirming, the Sartex weregood, but they couldn't just
remain on scene to ensure thatthey landed safely because the
weather was closing in. Badweather was yeah. It was bad
weather closing in. They had toleave.

Bryan (24:25):
That's crazy. That was the the, two ninety five that
happened?

Dan (24:29):
Yeah. Yeah.

Bryan (24:30):
Wow. That's wild. You guys do some crazy stuff.

Francois (24:33):
Yeah. So we well, we train for these things. Right?
We we train on, on, on, and on,and on, until we actually get
tasked on these complexmissions. And this mission
unfolded like a trainingscenario would have been, would
have been brought to life.

Bryan (24:50):
You've said that everyone who steps on it becomes a
believer. We've I've went onabout, the the back enders from
yesterday's flight and how muchthey were enjoying it.

Luc (24:57):
Did you become a believer after your flight yesterday? Oh,
yeah.

Bryan (25:00):
A 100%. Good. Yeah. And I will say, you never know. You
never know if there's aperceived pressure for people
like, you know, this project hasto happen.
So is there is there like anelement of like, well, it has to
happen and I guess it works andso, yeah, let's let's make this
work. Not what I that was notwhat I saw happening. Like, it

(25:23):
was obviously an extremelycapable aircraft that people are
truly buying into. So

Francois (25:28):
Yeah. And I think that narrative would have been
different if we had if we hadhad the pressure of implementing
it a year ago or two years ago.But we we actually So we took
our time? We took our time anddeliberately took step by step
to make sure that everything wassafe and effective for that
operationalization date.Speaking

Bryan (25:46):
of that, there were a number of challenges. So let's
dive into some of the hurdlesthat had to be jumped over and
kind of which would be some ofthe ways we took our time,
right, to make sure that thingswere were right and that we had
if there were issues that thosethings were cleared up. Every
new platform has hurdles. Whathave been some of the biggest
challenges with the Kingfisher?

Dan (26:05):
I think one of the biggest challenges with the Kingfisher,
speaking from an air crew, youknow what, probably speaking
from everybody's perspectivethat's been involved and in
every level whether it's the airforce or the contractors that we
have had to wait longer thanexpected. So people were
jettisoned in, you know, hadthese expectations on how long

(26:28):
it would take and the fact thatit delayed was something that
had to happen. You know, we madedesign changes, a lot of
engineering had to happen thenif people got to see in the back
room it cascades down so it goesfrom engineering and it's
finally approved and certifiedand then it's turned into say a
service bulletin and then theyactually do it to the aircraft

(26:50):
and then the publications haveto be changed and then the
training needs to be updated. Ifpeople can see that cascade,
they'd sort of see why thisthing delayed. But bottom line,
you know, I think the biggesthurdle for everybody was to
wait, It's you hard to staymotivated, especially if you see
work repeating itself.
So like say if the plane gotmodified or things become

(27:12):
modified enough that you have toredo or we've passed a couple of
years by and they're like, let'slook at all the courseware again
because in two years, we've kindof modified it in the background
and it's improved or whatever.But the same group is challenged
sometimes with things that feelrepetitious and, you know, it's
hard to stay super motivated andlaser focused on what you
wanted, which is to turn thewrench or to get in the plane

(27:36):
and start it and fly it. Sohonestly, I I think I'll not
maybe not everybody, but a lotof people would agree that, just
being there and waiting, I thinkas it was said a second ago by
left hand girl Francois, we tookthe right steps. I think we had
to crawl and then, walk and run,you know, as we've gotten going

(27:56):
and that to stay safe, we hadchallenges. All that engineering
had to be overcome.
We've got to the point now, butit was hard

Francois (28:03):
Okay.

Dan (28:04):
To, be there and wait. And a lot of people were there
quickly and have been waiting along time.

Bryan (28:10):
Okay.

Dan (28:10):
So it's great for them now, but it was tough in that period.

Francois (28:14):
I think also one of the biggest challenges, if I
look back and I step back, iscommunication challenges. There
have been so many bodies,entities, agencies involved in
this project, whether it's thePMO, the OEM, the RCF staff, the
contractors, the subcontractors.So making sure that we had a

(28:35):
clean mechanism to communicatebetween all those entities was
the initial challenge. And I cansay with confidence now that
that communication challenge isa thing of the past. It's
cleaner.
We have mechanisms to deal withthe OEM. We can talk to the

(28:56):
folks in Spain. We can talk tothe PMO. The RCF has direct
links to to such and such, so itis much cleaner. Everyone is in
lockstep.
And this wasn't a lack ofwillingness to collaborate
collaborate. Not at all. It wasit was just a lack of proper
lines of communication, which wehave now established.

Bryan (29:14):
Yeah. So just some I would assume that's kind of
normal growing pains almost witha new project and a new
aircraft. Yeah. Exactly.Contracts with, you know I don't
think we've ever bought anaircraft from Spain before.
So, you know, there's gonna belearning there with developing
those lines of communication.

Francois (29:29):
Yeah. And here in Comox, we've cleaned up those
lines of communications. We'veworked all through the
challenges. And I can, again,speak with confidence that the
stand up of Greenwood, Winnipeg,and Trenton are going to be
smoother because we've learnedfrom our our lessons. We've
established SOPs.
We we have procedures in place.And those will be useful for the

(29:49):
stand up of the following basesin Canada. Great. So now we're
going to

Bryan (29:56):
discuss some specific rumors, issues, problems that
may or may not have occurred. Ireally want people who are
listening to this show to perkup and pay attention because Dan
and I have talked about thisyesterday that there was just so
much so much discussion, so manypeople involved, so many various

(30:17):
rumors that I think you said atone point that pretty much any
time you mentioned what you did,someone would say, Oh, I heard
this. And it would be some wildthing that may have had some
basis in fact or may not have.

Dan (30:28):
Yep. I could sit down at any base and say what I did and
I would have people like tucktheir chairs in at the table and
start asking me questions.

Bryan (30:35):
Yeah. Yep. So so let's talk about some of these. There
were some concerns with theperformance of the Kingfisher in
cold weather and particularlyicing. So how has the Kingfisher
performed in the Arctic in coldweather environments?

Dan (30:47):
So what I can say to that is we work through one of the
engineering challenges with theaircraft that speaks to probably
the root. Rumors probably havesomething behind them a lot of
the time and the truth was asthis plane is coming to us and
we're looking through therequirements it has to meet and
we're looking at the performancedata, we saw that there was a

(31:09):
gap in the data. You know, it'sprobably the way we do it in
Canada, the way we looked at it,needed to see a certain amount
of performance data in ice tounderstand if it can complete a
flight plan. So what is the rateof climb when it has ice
accreted or it's in icingconditions so we can calculate
the climb and obstacle clearancein our fuel? Well, we identified

(31:31):
a gap where we said we needcharting for that.
And at the end of the day, youknow, there's a lot of
collaboration and explanationbecause we're two different
places and Airbus, you know,they're looking at it the way
their perspective is. They don'tnecessarily agree but we came to
an agreement in the end and theyproduced a lot more performance
data. And that goes for icingconditions, drift downs, they

(31:54):
provided updated data to that,certified data which is that
takes a long time to get itthrough that process, and then
performance data beyond icingconditions too, so we can see
what the single engineperformance is to high altitudes
because we said, you know, we'regoing be in the SAR environment
where I need, I have obstaclesthat don't end at, you know,

(32:17):
whatever, a low altitude, I needto know all the way up to 8,000
feet how the plane is performingto get out. So, you know, that's
probably largely the backgroundthat people were hearing. Then
of course, when you pass thatthrough 10 different persons,
the story gets into alldifferent places.
But that was the key point is wedidn't have it or at least as I

(32:40):
remember it, and they didprovide updated performance
information. So now we can dothose things. It's part of our
electronic performancecalculator. As far as how it
performs in the Arctic, I'll saythat we have limited experience
and I don't think it'd beworthwhile to really give an

(33:01):
opinion at this point. We'vedone testing requirements as far
as how it does, but we're juststarting.
Now is like the start pointwhere we get to go out with the
aircraft and we're pushing itaway from the base further and
further and we are for suregoing to operate it up into the
Arctic this year. I know there'sanother operational test planned

(33:21):
and our developmental test teamhas already done their work
there, so and the plane has beeninto the cold climactic lab. I
was

Bryan (33:30):
going say it has been cold weather tested. Twice.

Dan (33:32):
More than twice. I mean, thing has been tested a lot. So
we're at this wonderful timewhere essentially all of our
test organizations have given usthe thumbs up. It is, you know,
can it be operated safely? Yes.
Now we're in the point of eventhe operational test said, yes,
we can operate it safely usingour tactics and now the
operators get build experience.That's where we made it. Those

(33:54):
challenges did happen. It'salmost too bad we couldn't have
fast forwarded as the coalphase, the people that received
just fast forwarded it throughall that phase and just learned
about it when someone puts theirthumbs up at the test
organizations and says, You'regreen, go, like use it now.
That's where we're at.
So anyway, that's the best wayto put it is we did receive a

(34:16):
considerable amount ofperformance data and made some
considerable discussions thattook quite some time. We have it
now and we're ready to go outand use the plane. Awesome.
Build experience.

Bryan (34:28):
Another big concern people had when the Kingfisher
was announced was range. Itdefinitely won't have the range
that an H model Herc had, whichmakes sense. The H model Herc is
a long range transport aircraftand it is not a SAR aircraft and
this is not a long rangetransport aircraft. It is a SAR
aircraft. How will this affecthow we do SAR and how will we

(34:48):
overcome this challenge?

Luc (34:50):
I would like to start by answering, you know, just so
that we make sure everyoneunderstands the range of this
aircraft. It is possible for usto take off out of Comox and fly
straight all the way to Gander,Newfoundland in one hop.

Bryan (35:05):
Yeah. Which is impressive. That's good legs.

Luc (35:06):
Which is so Especially for

Bryan (35:08):
a twin.

Luc (35:08):
It's not a hurt. Yeah. It still covers one one side of
Canada to the other. Yeah. Sojust something when we talk
yeah.
It does have less range, but forcontext, it still goes quite
far.

Dan (35:19):
Yeah. I think I I best answer it somewhat anecdotally
too to say that there were anumber of modifications made to
the plane that improved itsrange performance, but at the
end of the day, it's quite a lotmore range than a Buffalo, it's
less range than a Herc. And thenanecdotally, would say probably

(35:39):
the best conversation I had wasnot too long ago, was talking
about with Major Dan Conway, whoI know you know and interviewed
there.

Bryan (35:47):
Yeah, actually on today as we record anyway, his second
episode aired.

Dan (35:52):
Oh, cool. Yeah. So I'm chatting with him with the
question, hey, buddy, how do Iget gas in the Azores? That's
the real question. And then hisquestion back, oh, wonderful.
Wow, you're going to the Azoresand the 295. What's that going
to be like? You know, becauseDan's saying, can it fly from,
you know, Saint John? How isthat for fuel? And I say to Dan,

(36:14):
yeah, I'm running my calculatorright now.
I can actually jump tomorrow,whatever it was, from Greenwood
all the way to Seville tomorrow.

Bryan (36:21):
In Spain?

Dan (36:22):
Yeah. Based on the weather. And the answer back is like,
woah, really? No kidding. Likeamazement from, you know,
another operator who's not inthe fleet yet, not familiar with
it.
And that's pretty much what Iget back on the plane. It's
like, yeah, that's pretty good.Wow. I did not expect that.

Luc (36:42):
Sorry, Dan. I'll jump in I've I mean, I've really only
been involved for the past year,but, you know, we talk about
misinformation. Even within ourown organization and other SAR
folks operating the the Herc,when we tell them the the real
operational limits, you know,the range, the the size of the

(37:02):
runways we need, they're like,oh, I thought it was much worse
than that. I thought you alwaysneeded 5,000 foot runways to
take off, but we just landed itand took off from, Allure Bay,
which is, like, 2,700, 28. Verysmall.
Yeah. You you couldn't do that.The hurry was often too narrow.
So you do gain some capability,in some aspects, but it is yeah.

(37:22):
Even within our ownorganization, there is some this
this project was a little,tainted.
And, when you do share the realinformation out there, it the
narrative changes.

Dan (37:33):
It's tough because there's mixture of the contract and a
lot of people ended upunderstanding the contract might
say it has to be able to operatefrom minimum 5,000 feet, but
then that translate out into thetranslates out into the rumor
mill as this aircraft takes5,000 feet to take off. Yeah.
You know, those type ofcommunications, you know, a

(37:54):
little bit of static gets missedin and, you know, and it can
become miscommunicated. Yeah, Imean, it gonna take? We'll have
fuel stops more than a Hercwould.
That's a fact. But can weexecute and prosecute the SAR
test we have in Canada? I mean

Luc (38:10):
Our fuel stops will be twice as fast though.

Dan (38:13):
Yeah. That's another I mean, it's a cool part about
this plane is it's very fast.

Luc (38:16):
Takes way less fuel.

Bryan (38:17):
Yeah.

Luc (38:17):
So like turnaround's way quicker.

Dan (38:19):
Yeah. It has advantages. It has disadvantages. But
realistically, it's fast. It hasa long range.
And if I said, I think it'llcover 98% of our cases, you'd
have to say the same thing aboutour older platforms. You know,
there are always going to betimes and circumstances where,
as we talked about before, thebetter decision is don't. But, I

(38:40):
think this plane is going to dowhat we need it to do and cover.

Francois (38:45):
Bottom line range, it the search and rescue region in
Canada from the Pacific to theAtlantic, and you were talking
about the Azores, Dan, that thatentire region can be covered by
the kingfisher. The kingfishermay not have as much time on
scene over a target in thoseextreme corners of the search

(39:07):
and rescue region, whethermainly the the Atlantic side in
the Arctic, but we have therange to prosecute a mission.

Bryan (39:14):
It also, at least from our exercises so far, seems to
require much less time toactually do the job, to find
whatever you're looking for.

Luc (39:22):
Absolutely.

Bryan (39:23):
Right? Like, finding things in ten minutes that take
other aircraft forty fiveminutes or or they don't find at
all. So, you know, maybe that'sgonna be less of a less of a
concern.

Francois (39:34):
Yeah. Yeah. Range is just one factor amongst many
when you look at the the SARtasking.

Luc (39:40):
But it's easy it's easy to get tunnel vision on this one
aspect. But then you forget, youknow, paint the full picture of
every other aspect there or someother aspects that are this
aircraft's much better.

Dan (39:51):
Mhmm.

Bryan (39:53):
There were also rumors about headroom being an issue
for Sartex. That's a big onethat you hear. It is not
obviously not as tall as a Herc.It is a bit of a somewhat I can
walk upright, but I'm just undersix feet. Issues with space
limitations and the SARconfigurations.
Can you comment on that as well?

Dan (40:12):
Yep. I think I can say, again, it's a bit of a boring
answer, but it lands between thetwo. At the end of the day, our
kit that we carry on board issomewhere between the two
aircraft. We carry a lot morepyro than the buff carried. We
carry quite a bit less than thehut carried, but ample.
The hut could just had no limitsessentially. So kid is there. As

(40:34):
far as working space, there arewe carry a lot of gear and our
space needs to be managed. Thatwas true of the buff too. Again,
when you have a Hercules, whichis like you can park a fire
truck in it, it's tough tocompare, but we have the kit we
need, the crew's on there.
We have a little galley in thekitchen. A full working
bathroom, which is worthwhilesaying, is an amazing thing to
have on a plane. Yes, it is. Soas far as space goes, we're

(40:59):
using it. It works well for thetasks that we have.
We're actually carrying all thetime right now eight people on
the aircraft instead of ourregular crew of six because
we're training so much. We'remanaging it just fine. So as far
as space, we have enough space.And then specifically to your
headroom comment, I think youjust answered it, is you're just
under six feet, you're walkingaround. I think if you hit about

(41:21):
six one, you are at the ceiling.
I am six three. Cockpit, great.No problem for the the pilots.
As far as the back at six three,you're gonna manage your you're
walking under the ceiling.

Bryan (41:34):
You're gonna have to crouch a little.

Francois (41:35):
Yep. Just the reality.

Bryan (41:36):
Are you guys getting any feedback on that from Sartex and
stuff? Because that's the bigthing. Everyone's saying, what
about the Sartex? What aboutthem with their helmets on and
their gear and

Dan (41:44):
No, I've had zero. So far I've had zero comments on the
headroom.

Bryan (41:48):
Okay.

Dan (41:48):
People are busy in this plane. You're like, you're in
your seats, you're strapped in,you're taking off. And then the
moment they're not and we'regetting into an exercise,
they're busy. They're just

Bryan (41:58):
They're not focusing on if

Dan (41:59):
they have headroom? So no, honestly, have not heard the
comment once.

Luc (42:04):
Yeah. Same with me. I've heard it from before, but now
that we're operating, it doesn'tseem to be an issue that we hear
at all.

Bryan (42:09):
Okay. That's great.

Luc (42:11):
Speaking of weight, one I mean, it it does have less room,
but one advantage it did is, andFrancois can talk a little bit
more, is it forced the RCF topurchase all brand new twenty
first century survival gear. Sonow, like, instead of nineteen
sixties huge green parkas thatI'm sure you had, we have these
really nice warm puffy jacketsget down to minus 60 or

(42:34):
something that that, you know,become smaller than a soccer
ball or, like, you know, getcompressed. So I have this big
Coleman stove. They're numb it'snice, small, little jet boils.
Yeah.
You know, our our toboggan. DidI say it right? Tuboggan?
Tuboggan. Tuboggan?
French I French it up there. Itgot much lighter, smaller,

(42:55):
easier to pull when, you know,for someone operating on the
ground. So it did force us to wehave a smaller space, but our
gear is actually much better.

Francois (43:04):
Okay.

Bryan (43:05):
Awesome. We were just talking about weight. Weight and
balance through the trip as theaircraft burns fuel was rumored
to be a problem. Was that everan issue? And if so, how have we
gotten around that?

Dan (43:16):
We discussed weight and balance considerably. I would
say that weight and balance isan interesting one. So this
aircraft has fits, the sensorstation, the bathroom, the
galley in the front and thenit's like an open in cargo
aircraft behind it. However, wethen fill it with these rigid
SAR containers on both sides ofthe aircraft and fill them with

(43:38):
kit. So while we initiallylooked at the aircraft and we
said it is on the nose side ofCFG, nose heavy side because of
those mods, In the end, for alot of discussion, like this
went around and became a verystrong point, in the end the
answer was simple, which seemedto happen a lot.
In the end we just said, let'sjust load it appropriately, put

(44:00):
the equipment where it should beto make sure that the weight and
balance is inside of ouroperating envelope that they
provided to us with a certifiedaircraft and that's it.
Actually, it's so simple. It'scrazy. In the end, we just
loaded it. We do watch though.
I would say that this aircraft,as an aircraft commander, I want

(44:21):
to know what the weight andbalance is in the morning if
we're going to load it in anyabnormal way. So if we're going
to have a ton of extra kitsomewhere or if we're all the
way up to max packs, I want toknow. And generally speaking,
they'll just say, nope, it's noissue. Even if the Sartex jump
out and we drop a thousandkilograms of gear, we're still
going to be inside. But theymight say, we're gonna load it

(44:42):
in a particular way.
Like, we're gonna put those onthe ramp today and we're gonna,
time down there because that'llbalance us. Okay.

Bryan (44:49):
That's good to hear.

Dan (44:50):
Yeah.

Bryan (44:50):
I I had heard I had heard some pretty, like I don't know
if it was sensational or ifthere was ever discussions
around this, but I had heardthings like there's going to be
sandbags that had to be movedfrom place to place. I had heard
there was going to be a pointwhere you couldn't use the
bathroom if so so much fuel wasburned.

Dan (45:06):
Yeah. No, I mean, so I'm going to go ahead and just tell
you, yeah, all those things weresaid. Were they justified or
said, know, were they weresupposed to be listened to and
provided as rumors? No. Youknow, a lot of discussion went
well.
How sensitive is it? And aswe're reading, you've got to
remember, we're reading andlearning the weight and balance
manual. And as an example, itsays you should provide a weight

(45:28):
and balance safety for peoplemoving around in the aircraft.
So that pretty much explainswhere what you just said going
to the bathroom thing. But inthe end, like I said, all it
came down to was we're not in aHerc, this aircraft needs to
have its weight and balance doneevery day and manage it.
It's just it's normal now. We dothe weight and balance. It's

(45:50):
loaded correctly, so Like likemany aircraft have

Bryan (45:53):
to do.

Dan (45:54):
Yeah. It's just we weren't used to it. I think it comes
down to a lot of things as soonas we saw it. The Buffalo
happened to be a crazy weightand balance envelope. Like, you
could do anything and it would

Luc (46:03):
be in balance. It really seems like a non issue. I mean,
before we we flight plan in themorning and with all our iPads
and all the software we have, weknow in the event that we are
bingo fuel, we deploy all theSartex through all the kid on
board, and we get in this verysituation that's hard to get.
Like, well, before we land, wemay have to shift some stuff in
the back. Then you shift a fewcouple 100 pounds to the ramp,

(46:26):
and it's done.
But we already briefed it, weknow it, it just kind

Dan (46:29):
of happens. I'd say it's an issue just like flight planning
that you have to do it. You haveto do your weight and balance,
you have to flight plan andprove that you have a you're
meeting your IFR requirements,you have to have the fuel for
the trip. It's part of ourplanning that we do to fly.

Luc (46:45):
Yeah. It's not limiting our, any operations.

Dan (46:48):
Okay.

Luc (46:48):
Well, it just creates sometimes you have to shift some
stuff around, but it it happensseamlessly.

Bryan (46:53):
Okay. Another problem that has been spoken about in
pilot circles is the singleengine climb performance in
icing. How has this beenovercome in mountainous regions
in Canada?

Dan (47:03):
This aircraft was provided with penalties that we basically
came with that big performancepackage. So it's not about any
icing, it's about the fact thatwhen you turn it on, the nose is
down, it flies with a higherspeed so it's not climbing as
well. So that's one thing. Andthen it's about when they tested
the performance of this aircraftat low speed, they said, well,

(47:24):
we need to penalize thisaircraft a lot because at low
speed, it gathers ice in a bitof a away. So bottom line,
that's all the test part thatnobody probably should have
heard about.
The reality is, yes, we havepenalties for the air craft
applied when we're climbing inicing conditions and they're
pretty significant. That's theanswer. I'm not gonna give you
like a performance, the actualpercentage that you apply to

(47:48):
your climb gradient, but that'swhat it is.

Bryan (47:51):
So how are we overcoming that challenge?

Dan (47:52):
Well, it's not that you overcome it, it's that you
change your fuel load. So thatis the same as every aircraft.
It's funny when we got as deepas we could into this
conversation, I was I wastelling you, I finally looked up
the Buffalo because I'm like, inthe good old days, our aircraft
didn't have to do anyway, Ilooked in the buff and I was
like, oh my gosh, all the samepenalties more or less are in

(48:13):
this AFM for the Buffalo.

Bryan (48:15):
And for the listeners, an AFM is an aircraft flight
manual. It's a document producedby the aircraft manufacturer
containing detailed informationon the operation of the
aircraft.

Dan (48:25):
We just became so proficient and had so much
experience in the Buffalo, wekind of distilled its
information and fed what thecrews needed to know down to
them. Where now, this is a brandnew plane, certified to the
highest standard. It's right inour performance calculator. So
we're applying everything as weshould. And it has penalties
that will cause you to reduce,your fuel load if you're like,

(48:49):
I'm gonna climb today throughice.

Luc (48:51):
Yeah. Like, if you're in Cranbrook and you're super heavy
and then the system comes in andthere's tons of icing.

Dan (48:58):
It'll lower your takeoff weight.

Luc (48:59):
Maybe you need to defuel the aircraft or wait an hour
till, like, some of the stuffgoes. But

Bryan (49:05):
But this is normal like, I

Dan (49:07):
guess to give this context for listeners, this is normal
airplane stuff. It is so normal.It's just like weight and
balance is so normal. The trickhas always been that the
Hercules was just like thiscrazy powerful four engine
massive machine. They're like,what do we do in ice?
Because I remember asking them,they're like, we just fly

(49:28):
through it. Like, it'sindestructible and we have, you
know, they have a little bit ofthey add something like some
extra thousands of pounds perhour it's flying. But basically
they're just like, we're good togo. Yeah. Whereas this is a
twin.
This is more like the buff. Youtake it into consideration. If
you lose one, you're down toone.

Bryan (49:47):
Yeah.

Dan (49:47):
It's not the same. So yeah, it's normal. It's just that it's
new. And now it's funny becausenow we look at it all. Our
performance calculation includeseverything.
Like I said, in the Buffalo, I'mgonna go on a limb and say that
that we had figured out a fastway to plan and you had some
rules of thumb type thing Yeah.Compared to this plane where

(50:08):
you're like, it's diving all theway to the bottom of the AFM and
pulling all of it back up to thesurface in your plans.

Bryan (50:15):
Well, I think a lot of those older aircraft, like
coming from the Aurora worldwhere you have you have like
decades of experience on thefleet, I think you do develop
those rules of thumb. And andalso the performance charts are
sometimes they're not that easyto use, like the legacy
performance charts. And they canbe challenging. They can be hard
to be accurate with. So you kindof get all this experience and

(50:38):
you say, well, actually, youknow, we're going to turn an
engine on any ice.
So what's the fuel penalty forthat? And there is a chart for
that. But we know fromexperience, from decades of
experience, that it's so many100 an hour. Right? So you apply
that.
And same with climb penaltiesand and whatever else. So that
that makes sense that that wouldhave been what was going on in
the buff world as well.

Dan (50:55):
Took the heart to to you.

Bryan (50:56):
Yeah. The last rumor mill issue that I'd like to address
is that there was issues withSartex parachuting safely from
the aircraft. Is that true? Andif so, how has it been overcome?

Francois (51:07):
Yeah. I can take that one maybe, initially anyways. So
so para procedures have beentested on multiple occasions on
the Kingfisher. We'll start offwith that. Recently, it was
noted that the the so for staticjumps, for static deployment,
the deployment bag wasn't alwaysconsistently maintained in the
airflow behind the aircraftafter a parachute exit.

(51:30):
We have two examples in the lastyear and a bit of two of those
deployment bags that were notconsistently maintained where
they came back in. Soimmediately what we've decided
to do for training and to keepcrew safe because that could
potentially come as safetyhazard. We've limited the

(51:54):
kingfisher for free fall.Obviously, that has no limit.
And for static jumps, only onestatic jump, and the static jump
needs to be the last exit of aparachute sequence.
For operational, taskings, thereare no limits at this point. So
it will be the decision of theteam leader and the aircraft

(52:15):
commander whether they wannadeploy free fall or static, and
and what comes with that.

Bryan (52:21):
Okay. So you're saying during training, just one person
can do a static jump?

Francois (52:25):
Yeah. And multiple free fall, but only one person
can do a static jump unless weretrieve the the deployment bag
Okay. Which we have been doing.So only one static jump at a
time, is permitted in intraining.

Luc (52:38):
Right. Pretty much every thirty seconds, you can drop.
Someone can parachute out. Youjust need to retrieve part of
the it's called a d bag.

Bryan (52:47):
Yeah.

Luc (52:47):
For static for static jumps is as soon as you leave the
aircraft, your parachute deploysautomatically. That's a static
jump. And then there's a littlepart of the parachute that
remains with the aircraft, andthat's where you gotta pull in

Bryan (52:59):
Okay.

Luc (52:59):
Just at this time. Yep. But I'm confident we'll get it
resolved.

Dan (53:03):
Okay.

Bryan (53:03):
Awesome. There will always be naysayers. If you
could say one thing to thosepeople who don't believe in the
Kingfisher, what would it be?

Luc (53:12):
I would like to I often get asked as a CEO of fourteen
Squatch what my thoughts are onthe on the Kingfisher as a lot
of people are probably expectingme to say, oh, you know, perhaps
poor things about it. But as aas a father of three young kids
and now as a qualified pilot onthe Kingfisher, if my family is

(53:33):
lost at sea or in the wildernessor in a drifting boat or sinking
boat, I want the Kingfisher togo over any other aircraft. That
includes model j's, the good oldBuffalo, the the the
Kingfisher's far superior, andeven better than anything the US
Coast Guard has. So that is howI like to answer that question.

Bryan (53:54):
Okay. I think that's a really resounding endorsement of
that aircraft. Like, that's thewhole that's kind of the gold
standard. Right? Like, we usedto say if somebody was being
going through, like, a test or alike, proficiency check or
something, like, would you wannaput your wife and kids on the
plane?

Luc (54:10):
Yes. It's the same analogy. Yeah.

Bryan (54:13):
Yeah. That's huge.

Francois (54:14):
Yeah. I've I that is perfectly summarized by Luke.

Luc (54:18):
Okay.

Dan (54:18):
I mean, I I'd just say if I was speaking directly to the air
crew out there, I would say it'strue that we're, I think,
honestly, losing those goldenaspects of the old Herc and the
old buff. But as far as beingSar Air Crew and what we can
bring that I don't think any AirCrew will step into this plane
and not be like, oh, wow. Okay.This is the way forward and be

(54:40):
ready to leave those amazingplatforms they were on before
and just go all in. It's I thinkit blows the mind of everybody
that gets in and uses it.
At the end

Luc (54:51):
of the day, we are providing Canadians with a
better search and rescueservice.

Bryan (54:56):
I think, like, it has to be emphasized that, like you
said, this is losing somecapabilities that a Herc has.
But that is because a Herc isnot a search and rescue
aircraft. It is a cargoaircraft. So of course it has
certain advantages that comefrom being a cargo aircraft, but
it doesn't have the sensors andthe special like the all the

(55:19):
specialties that make this aspecialized from what we're
we're talking about today, I'mbecoming convinced it's probably
the best search and rescueaircraft fixed wing that exists
right now. And it has thosebecause it's very specialized.
But because of that, there is noevery aircraft is a compromise.
Right? Every aircraft can bespecialized towards one thing or
a few things, but nothing can doit all. And I think that the

(55:43):
things that have been sacrificedin terms of we'll say we'll say
range or airlift capability havebeen more than made up for by
the improved capability ofdetecting something very
somebody very quickly and thenaffecting a rescue.

Francois (55:59):
Yeah. I I totally agree. And I think these
naysayers, I can guarantee thatthe moment they would step on
that aircraft or witness thecapability of the Kingfisher
would completely change theirmind a 180 degrees. Luke,

Bryan (56:14):
when we were chatting yesterday, you mentioned that
the SAR force here in Comox as awhole is really coming together
to make sure you'reaccomplishing both the SAR
mission as well as trainingthese new cadres of Kingfisher
crews and maintainers. Can youtell us a bit about that effort?

Luc (56:26):
Absolutely. I'll take this opportunity to give a shout out
to 14 squadron members. They aredoing a tremendous job right
now. Not only are we trainingComox crews to hold operations
here in Comox, we have a fullclass of Greenwood four thirteen
Squadron members, operators, andground crew in house. We are

(56:50):
also trying to make our coursesmore efficient and we're also
augmenting four forty twosquadron to provide aircrew so
that they can actually hold theSAR standby posture.
So we have a lot in place rightnow, we're working hard. Folks,
however, are motivated, to getit done and, are grateful, you
know, that the project's movingforward and happy to be part of

(57:12):
it. But, big shout out to allthe work and dedication they're
they're they're giving the SAARenterprise.

Bryan (57:19):
Awesome. So looking forward, what does the future
look like for the Kingfisher,and how will it be rolled out
across Canada?

Francois (57:27):
Well, very simply put, next base to be operationalized
is Greenwood in Nova Scotia. Sowe're posting crew members, air
crew, and technicians thissummer. We're standing standing
up the the structure and thesupport capacity of Greenwood.
In the fall, there's going to bea transition. And in January

(57:47):
2026, the operationalization ofthe Kingfisher will be formal in
Greenwood, followed by that willbe Winnipeg, and the fourth and
last base will be Trenton.
So that that's essentially it.

Dan (57:59):
I think from a public perspective, it's gonna feel
fast. Yeah. Like, it'll be,like, the next time you
check-in, there'll be anotherbase and then another base and
another base.

Bryan (58:09):
Gents, that does it for our talk today on the two ninety
five. I just wanna thank you somuch for bringing me through
your squadron spaces, showing useverything that you guys do and
giving us a chance to go for aflight on the 295. It's just
been amazing to see the work youdo and see kind of all the
changes that are going on here.It's been really, really cool.
So thank you for that.
Thank you for your time todayand giving up your well, what's

(58:32):
been now several hours of timeto make this show happen. I
really, really appreciate it.And, yeah, thank you.

Francois (58:38):
Awesome. Yeah. You're welcome. It was great having you
here at, at 19 Wing 442 And 418.

Dan (58:44):
Yep. Thanks, Brian. It's been a blast.

Luc (58:47):
It's our pleasure, Brian. It's good to see that you're,
you're now also a believer.

Bryan (58:51):
Yeah. I am a convert for sure. Great. Alright. Okay.
That wraps up our three partseries with Luke, Francois, and
Dan on all things c two ninetyfive Kingfisher. Thank you once
again, gentlemen, for having meon location in Comox. For next
week, we will once again behaving a break as we will be on

(59:12):
vacation. For the weekfollowing, we will start a
series on search and rescue aswell as counter drug
interdiction in The Caribbeanwith PAL Aerospace and two
retired RCAF members. Do youhave any questions or comments
about anything you've heard inthis show?
Would you or someone you knowmake a great guest, or do you
have a great idea for a show?You can reach out to us at the

(59:32):
[e-mail] oron all social media at at pod
pilot project. And be sure tocheck out that social media for
lots of great videos of our RCAFand mission aviation aircraft.
As always, we'd like to thankyou for tuning in and ask for
your help with the big three.That's like and follow us on
social media, share with yourfriends, and follow and rate us

(59:52):
five stars wherever you get yourpodcasts.
That's all for now. Thanks forlistening. Keep the blue side
up. See you. Engineer, shut downall four.
Shutting down all four engines.