Episode 66: The Counter-Drug Ops: Flying SAR and counter-narcotics missions in the Caribbean and flying the De Havilland Dash 8 for PAL Part 1 - Pat Lalande, Trevor Juby

From RCAF Patrol Missions to Counter-Drug and SAR Operations in the Caribbean

What kinds of missions do a long-range patrol sensor operator and crew commander face in the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF)? What challenges and close calls have they experienced, and how did those skills carry over into high-stakes counter-narcotics and Search and Rescue (SAR) missions in the Caribbean?

In this episode, retired RCAF Lieutenant-Colonel Trevor Juby, now Chief Pilot with Provincial Airlines / PAL Aerospace in Curaçao, and retired RCAF Master Warrant Officer Pat Lalande, now a tactical coordinator and mission commander with PAL Aerospace, share their journey from Canadian military aviation to today’s critical counter-drug and SAR operations.

Listeners will hear about their careers in the RCAF, the transition to international aviation operations, and the realities of flying missions in one of the most complex and dynamic regions of the world.

Episode Transcript

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Bryan (00:58):
Alright. We're ready for departure here at the pilot
project podcast, the best sourcefor stories and advice from RCAF
and Mission Aviation Pilotsbrought to you by Sky's
Magazine. I am your host, BrianMorrison. With me today is
Trevor Juby, a retired RCAFlieutenant colonel and current
base chief pilot with ProvincialAirlines or Powell Aerospace in
Curacao, and Pat Lalonde, aretired RCAF master warrant

(01:20):
officer and current tacticalcoordinator and mission
commander with Powell Aerospacein Curacao. Guys, welcome to the
show.
I'm so glad we could put thistogether.

Trevor (01:28):
Thanks for having us, Brian.

Pat (01:30):
Yeah. Thanks very much. This is gonna be great.

Bryan (01:32):
So before we start, let's get to know each of our guests.
Master warrant officer retiredPatrick Lalonde joined the
Canadian forces in 1993 as athen field engineer. At that
time, the CF were downsizing andthe air force career he always
wanted was not available. Aftera decade in the army that
included multiple operationalunits, two overseas deployments
to Croatia and Kosovo and aninstructor posting, an

(01:55):
opportunity to transfer to theair force air crew occupation
presented itself. Jumping onthis chance, he became an
airborne electronic sensoroperator or ASOP in 2004 and
headed to the then CanadianForces Air Navigation School for
the six month basic ASOP course.
Upon graduation, he was postedto four fifteen maritime patrol
squadron at 14 Wing Greenwood.Immediately on arrival, he began

(02:17):
the maritime operational aircrew training or MOAT course at
four zero four maritime patroland training squadron. Only a
few weeks into the course,personnel challenges within the
fleet meant that Patrick'sassignment was suddenly changed
to four zero seven maritimepatrol squadron in Colmox BC.
Following completion of Mote, hebegan his operational career
with four zero seven squadronparticipating in training
exercises in such places asCalifornia, Hawaii, Alaska,

(02:40):
Japan, and Italy. Also duringthat first squadron tour, he
deployed multiple times on OPCarib as well as OP Mobile.
In 02/2011, Patrick was postedto Ottawa serving as the
technical electronicintelligence or tech ELINT
analysis at the Canadian ForcesElectronic Warfare Center. Once
again, RCAF personnel challengesresulted in a short assignment

(03:01):
sending Patrick back to fourzero seven squadron a year
later. During this secondsquadron tour, he served as ASOP
training officer, ASOP standardsofficer, and senior ASOP
reaching the rank of masterwarrant officer. Multiple
deployments to OP Karib, Japanfor OP DriftNet, and nine months
to OP Impact flying 31 missionswhile holding a full time ground
job were the highlights of thisperiod. 2016 brought a new

(03:25):
posting, this time a supersuperintendent of the combat
operations division at the oneCAD CANAR combined aerospace
operations center or CAOC.
This ground assignment was alsorather brief with Patrick
deciding to release from the CAFin March 2017. After two years
as a civilian, he accepted anoffer to reenroll in the RCAF in
the ASOP occupation and wentback to Ottawa as the sensor

(03:47):
subject matter expert for thefixed wing SAR project. As is
tradition now, this postingwould be a short one. In late
two thousand nineteen, he wassurprised with an overseas
flying job offer. In February2020, he joined the Powell
Aerospace team in Curacao as atactical coordinator and mission
commander, flying maritimepatrol dash eights for the Dutch
Caribbean coast guard where heis to this day.

(04:08):
Patrick lives just outside ofWillemstad with his wife. His
spare time is devoted toaviation photography, a hobby
that has fast become a sidehustle into magazine work with
publications such as SkiesMagazine and Air Forces Monthly.
So Pat, what initially led youto join the CF?

Pat (04:26):
Well, I grew up in a military family. My dad was in a
did twenty two years in themilitary. So I dreamt of a few
other things, know, I dreamt ofbeing a Formula One driver and a
rock star of course. But therewas never any doubt, in my mind
that I would join the militaryand I did so as soon as I could,

(04:47):
sort of a family affair.

Bryan (04:49):
Yeah, it's kind of one of those things every now and then
I get a guess where it's sort ofin their blood and it sounds
like that's the case for you aswell.

Pat (04:56):
Absolutely, I would say exactly that.

Bryan (04:59):
Yeah, you joined the CF as a field engineer. Can you
tell us what that trade's allabout?

Pat (05:05):
Yeah, well, the time I joined, there was budget cuts,
post cold war sort of drawdown.And when I walked in the
recruiting center, they offeredme a field engineer, artillery
or armored. So after hearing thedescription field engineer
sounded good because you got toplay with explosives, blow
things up. You got to shootguns, you got to build things

(05:28):
that sounded like an allarounder and that I could really
learn some cool skills and likeclearing landmines, doing
explosive ordinance disposal. Asa 17 year old, that sounded
absolutely perfect.
So that's what the trade wasabout. Got to build bridges, got

(05:50):
to blow up the same bridge afterit was built. Was all really
fun.

Bryan (05:55):
It live up to your expectations?

Pat (05:57):
In the end, it was a lot different than I expected, but
it was all a lot of fun. Itdelivered on everything that was
on the brochure, so to speak. Igot to play with a lot of
explosives, blow a lot of thingsup. It's just maybe as a naive
16, 17 year old, it was a lotmore physically demanding, than

(06:18):
I expected. So the physicaltraining aspects of the training
was a lot more demanding.
There was a lot more push ups,there was a lot more pull ups,
there was a lot more of runningthan I expected. I thought it
was gonna be like constructionand demolition work. Even though

(06:39):
we got to shoot guns, I wasn'texpecting to be that combat
oriented, which I naively didn'treally relate it to a combat
arms trade, which is what itturned out to be. So it was all
a lot of fun, but it was a lotmore work than I thought it was
when I started.

Bryan (06:57):
So it kind of had like almost more infantry type, there
was more infantry in the mixthan you expected maybe.

Pat (07:04):
Oh, absolutely. A big part of the training was the same as
the basic infantry course. Atthe beginning, we had to learn
all the same tactics before wecould move on to doing our
primary job as engineers. And Ihadn't quite expected that. I
thought I was going to learn toshoot rifles, fire machine guns.
I didn't expect to be, anti tankweapons and, section attacks,

(07:28):
that kind of thing. Yeah. Thatwas somewhat of a surprise to
me, but it was all part of thejob. So it made it, demanding
and interesting.

Bryan (07:37):
Yeah. So a little more variety almost than you
expected.

Pat (07:40):
Absolutely. It was like learning two entire trades, for
the Canadian forces.

Bryan (07:44):
Yeah. You did two tours in Croatia and Kosovo. What was
your time in Croatia like andwhat was the mission there?

Pat (07:52):
That was a UN peacekeeping tour in the Former Yugoslavia.
That was really my firstexposure to operational things.
So it was all right from thebeginning was all big and scary.
I was in the country I'd reallynever heard of before. And we
landed at the airport in Zagreband the buses came to pick us up

(08:13):
and there was bullet holes inthe glass.
So that was my, I'm 18 years oldgoing, where the hell did I just
landed kind of a moment. But itwas my first opportunity to
really do my job for real. Soclearing real landmines that had

(08:34):
been in place during the civilwar. Up until that point, it was
only training with fake ones.Now it's like, this is for real.
People were shooting realbullets and it was real armies
that we were dealing with. So as18, 19 years old, it was 1994,
that was all sort of surreal atthe beginning. And we just did

(08:59):
all the work to support thebattalion. So we constructed
observation posts for theinfantry platoons that were out
on the zone of separation. Wecleared landmines on roads, we
built roads, we did all theentire spectrum of field
engineer work in a six monthperiod.

(09:19):
It was a great professionalexperience because you got to do
everything that you trained todo in the year or so prior to
deploying. It was really goodfor that because you got to do
it for real.

Bryan (09:32):
What's it like the first time you clear a real landmine?
That's gotta be pretty crazy.

Pat (09:38):
Absolutely. It's sort of like, I remember the first mine
that we encountered, it was justthat hyper focus of attention.
It's like, okay, this is how wedeal with this. This is the
precautions we have to take. Andit's like, it came back from
training, but it was like theheart racing and just I I can't

(10:04):
describe the level of focus thatthat it required just to get
over the the the holy hellmoment of of finding one of
these things.
And now it's like, okay, wecan't screw this up.

Bryan (10:17):
Did it become like did you guys deal with those
landmines a fair bit to thepoint that this just became part
of the job or was it alwayspretty intense when you had to
deal with one?

Pat (10:27):
No. It was always pretty intense. Think if it wasn't
always pretty intense, it wouldbe dangerous for yourself and
others to lackadaisicalattitudes. So it was always that
hyper focus, but it becamenormal to see them for real. By

(10:48):
the time I rotated home, it wasjust another part of the job.
That was a great six monthsspent in Croatia where I learned
a lot and even did some thingsthat I never expected to do
because it was new. We gottasked as infantry in a couple

(11:08):
of situations. So the trainingthat we had taken back when I
went through the engineer schoolin Chilliwack, it was like,
okay, this is why we learnedthat because this is part of our
job.

Bryan (11:20):
Yeah. Was there still active shooting war going on in
Croatia at that time or was itmore like cleaning up from the
war?

Pat (11:29):
Yeah. The the ceasefire between the the the parties had
been well established by then,but just like just like we see
in ceasefires and other places,there was always little flare
ups here and there. So it wasalways the typical UN thing is
that we would note what washappening and reported higher

(11:49):
headquarters for the politicalside to deal with things. But
there was often where we had tointervene between groups from
either party Croatia and keepthem separated and put out the
fire so to speak. But as far asgeneral shooting or the

(12:12):
ceasefire itself had beenimplemented well before my
rotation arrived, my rotationwas rotation five.
So it was well settled by then.

Bryan (12:22):
Okay, that must have been pretty intense though to
sometimes have to put yourselfbetween the different parties.

Pat (12:27):
I'm sure you can imagine, as an 18 or 19 year old, I
didn't have a whole lot of lifeexperience so it was pretty
intense to be trying to keep twogroups of people that are quite
angry at each other and armed ofcourse to keep the situation
from flaring into somethingworse and the tense moments like
that. So I was just a kid at thetime still. So it was the most

(12:52):
intense intense things that I'vehad ever experienced up to that
point.

Bryan (12:56):
Yeah. It's kind of the wild thing about, I guess, I I
guess combat in general and anyof these any of these more
intense missions is like it'seasy to forget that a lot of the
people who are there conductingthem are, like, 17 to 25 or so.

Pat (13:13):
We were all we were all still pretty young at the time.
So even the guys that were inleadership positions were still
pretty comparatively young. Andfor somebody who had just come
out of high school, I didn'tknow how to deal with a lot of
things. So we learned on thespecial for me, it was a lot of
learning on the fly, so tospeak. Yeah.

(13:35):
How to deal with people,especially in languages that, I
don't speak or, you know, Frenchand English didn't come in handy
when everybody spoke Serbo,Corat or German.

Bryan (13:45):
Yeah. I was gonna say, did did you guys have
translators with you or how didthat work?

Pat (13:49):
Yeah. We frequently had, local personnel to to translate,
but there's always an element ofyou gotta wonder who you can and
can't trust when translators areinvolved.

Bryan (14:01):
For sure.

Pat (14:02):
So we had some good ones. We had some that weren't quite
necessarily the best, but therewas a lot of good people that we
got to work with in what'sessentially a pretty bad
situation. There were still somegood people around. So that was
really good.

Bryan (14:17):
Yeah, right on. So let's talk a little about Kosovo. I
know Kosovo was an activeshooting war, at least I've been
told that about the air war.What was it like on the ground
and what was your mission inKosovo?

Pat (14:31):
So we deployed ahead of an actual ceasefire. So it was all
very last minute that was postedin Edmonton at the time. And we
sort of rushed out the door toget to Macedonia. And
essentially as soon as theceasefire The bombings were
still going on. But as soon as aceasefire agreement was hammered

(14:53):
out, sort of The bomb stoppedraining down and we rolled
across the border into Kosovoand sort of a quasi relief in
place of the Serbian army there.
So every time we move forward,we could watch them leave back
to Serbia and sort of secure thecountryside so that the

(15:14):
ceasefire agreement that hadbeen implemented would work out,
keeping the Serbs separated fromthe local Albanian population.
So we sort of caught the tailend of the shooting war. And as
we were driving North, you couldsee the impact because you could
see the destroyed militaryequipment, damaged bridges. It

(15:37):
was really interesting to sortof follow the end of the
shooting aspects of the war, theair war, and to see the impact
of it as we drove North and seepeople come out and tell us
about what had happened, wherethe Serbian army was, where it
all happened very, very quickly.So it was all like for me, I

(15:59):
sort of, even though it was mysecond deployment, it's in
itself was a new experience.
So I learned a lot and it wasall very dynamic. And then, our
first encounters with theRussian army for me were quite
tense because didn't know whatto expect from that. Having
joined on the tail end of thecold war where the Soviet Army

(16:22):
was sort of the main focus, as ahostile force to my first
encounter with Russians wasreally, like, another surreal
experience.

Bryan (16:32):
The Russians were there as part of the peacekeeping
force? Or

Pat (16:36):
they were sort of on their own. They just appeared out of
nowhere one day, having takencontrol of the airport in
Pristina. So we startedencountering them with road
checkpoints when it was near theairport. And there's all sorts
of things that we heard aboutthem taking equipment from

(16:57):
bunkers back to Russia,locations where the Serbian army
had been. But I never actuallysaw those things, so I can't
confirm that.
But we did spend a lot of timegoing through roadblocks that
were manned by Russian soldiers.And it was a again, you know, I
was a little older, but stillnot knowing what to expect

(17:19):
encountering them.

Bryan (17:20):
Yeah. That must have been pretty tense, I would think.

Pat (17:24):
Yeah. It's it's an experience I won't I won't
forget.

Bryan (17:27):
Yeah. No doubt. These conflicts in the Balkans were
pretty notorious for puttingpeacekeepers in tough
situations. Did you everencounter anything like that?

Pat (17:39):
No. Like, if by that you mean, like, the the the very
famous hostage situations, I'venever been involved in that. My
first tour in Croatia, oursection was caught in between
Serbians and Croatians shootingat each other, and we became a

(18:01):
convenient target in the middleon one incident.

Bryan (18:03):
Oh, wow.

Pat (18:04):
But never anything really that traumatic or that was sort
of newsworthy. Just my firsttour in Croatia, one of the
vehicles from the anti armorplatoon hit a landmine. So I was
on the quick reaction sectionfor the engineers that responded
to a landmine strike to go getthe guys out of the situation

(18:26):
they were in. And shortly afterwe arrived on the scene, the
shooting between the partiesbegan and we were in the middle.
So they were shooting at eachother, they were both shooting
at us and that's that's about asdangerously exciting between the
two parties that it got on mytour.

Bryan (18:44):
That's crazy. Did did it get to a point where you guys
had to return fire or what didyou guys do when when you found
you were being shot at by bothsides?

Pat (18:51):
No, we just made sure everybody was safe, got into a
position to return fire if weneeded to. But of course it's
not the UN's business to startshooting at either party if it's
not necessary. So we justfollowed procedures for dealing
with an area that we know havelandmines and extracted
ourselves and the guys from theanti armor platoon out of that

(19:13):
situation and returned to base.

Bryan (19:15):
That is intense, that's crazy. So let's talk about
joining the air force and yourtraining as an Aesop. What
inspired you to make the switchover to the aviation side of the
CAF? And what skills do youthink the army gave you that
served you well as you made yourswitch to the air force?

Pat (19:34):
So I was on my last posting that I had in the army, I was
instructing at the engineerschool and the field engineer
slash combat engineer trade,because it had been renamed for
the first time since I hadjoined, healthy enough to allow
some people, a limited number ofpeople to do an occupational

(19:57):
transfer to something else. AndI had always intended to join
the Air Force, but that was notavailable, when I joined. So I
saw an opportunity, to make aswitch to what I always wanted
to do. And I applied forairborne electronic sensor
operator, which was always openfor occupational transfer. So I

(20:21):
did all the testing and all thepaperwork and was finally
accepted to the trade a yearlater.
So the inspiration was I alwayswanted to fly. I didn't have the
eyesight, to be a pilot. Ididn't have the education to be

(20:43):
an officer, at the time either.So that seemed like, oh, it's an
air crew trade. I get to flysomething.
That's what I wanted to do sinceI was five. Okay, let's go.

Bryan (20:54):
Right on.

Pat (20:56):
And, you know, I was at the time, I discounted the
experience that I had in thearmy, to okay, I'm going to the
air force. It's not gonna berelevant. But I couldn't have
been farther from the truth. Thearmy puts you, in leadership
situations as early as possible,and that came in really handy

(21:20):
because I found that in the airforce, but in the trade that I
was in, leadership roles werealmost immediate upon finishing
the training. And it taught me alot of self discipline because
it was necessary as a sensoroperator that it was very
academic and it required a lotof studying and preparation.

(21:41):
And I think my army experiencereally set the tone for that,
that I was ready for thechallenges of the new trade
because of my time in the army.

Bryan (21:51):
That's awesome. I think that there's a lot more
relevance between the trades andbetween the various elements, I
think, than people realize.Like, everyone I speak to who
comes from the army and joinsthe air force, they bring a ton
of valuable skills with them.And I think the strongest skill
that people from the army tendto bring, and you see this in a
lot of Aesop's who are formercombat arms or former trades in

(22:13):
the army, is leadership, likeyou said. One thing we don't do,
at least I can speak for thepilot world, we don't do formal
leadership training.
You do basic training, that'syou get a little leadership
training there. And thenbasically after that it's up to
mentorship to hopefully you havegood mentors. They teach you to
be a good leader. I always foundit very impressive that people

(22:34):
who come from the army and thecombat arms specifically, the
very strong foundation andleadership that they have.

Pat (22:43):
Yeah. I would agree with that. And I've seen it in a lot
of guys that came, to to theAesop trade after I did. And you
could you could really tellwhere they were from and and and
how they approached situations.And just their general bearing,
really showed that, oh, you youcame from the army.
I can tell.

Bryan (23:03):
Well, yeah. It would even be as simple as like troops eat
first, like little things likethat. Right?

Pat (23:08):
Yeah. Exactly.

Bryan (23:10):
So what was life like at the Canadian Forces Air
Navigation School in 02/2004?Can you tell us a little bit
about the training courses therefor ASOS?

Pat (23:19):
Yeah, so that was like the introduction to the air force
for me. It was very different. Ishowed up at the school in
Winnipeg and it was just on thetail end of winter. So it was
still cold there and you getyour room and it's like
instructions show up tomorrowmorning. Nobody's yelling at you

(23:40):
on day one with, you know, andit's like, oh, what am I missing
here?
Am I supposed to be somewhere? Iremember getting the keys to my
room in the barracks. I walkedinto my room, looked around. I'm
like, no, no, this is somebodyelse's room. And going back to
accommodations because this mustbe for someone else.

(24:01):
I've got my own bathroom.There's a coffee machine.
There's a microwave. This can'tbe mine. There should be 12 bunk
beds in a room.

Bryan (24:08):
Yeah. Like, this must be for a major or something.

Pat (24:10):
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And they of course, the the staff at
accommodations knew understoodmy reaction exactly because
they're they laughed out loud alittle bit and said, no, no,
it's the I had gone down andranked a corporal again and
they're like, no, no, this isyour room. This is where you're
gonna be for the next six toeight months.

(24:30):
I'm like, oh, okay. So rightaway there was a bit of a
somewhat of a culture shock. Butthe next day at the school, it
was your typical schoolenvironment. We had
introductions with the schoolstaff. The routine was
explained.
It was familiar. It wasn't analien thing. It was just

(24:53):
presented a little bitdifferently, but they wasted no
time. The course was scheduledfor ninety three or ninety four
training days. So there wasabsolutely no time to waste.
So we rolled into classesimmediately and, you know, the
first class of course, at thetime in the curriculum was math.

(25:15):
And we wrote the math exambecause in the lead up to the
course we had to do this mathpackage and I'm the least
mathematically inclined guyyou'll ever meet. So I wrote the
math exam, not do so well. Andthat was my introduction. Okay,

(25:38):
this is going to be hard andI've got to figure this out and
refocus.
And it was hard and the rest ofthe course was no easier either.
But I'm like, okay, I'm in for achallenge on this one, but this
is what I want to do.

Bryan (25:55):
Can you tell us a little bit more about kind of what the
course consisted of beyond thatfirst test?

Pat (26:00):
Yeah, so of course, entry level training as aircrew. So
some people are less familiarthan others. So it was a very
much like the airplane 101. Sothis is an airplane, this is how
it flies kind of thing. The ABCsof airplane, we covered a lot of

(26:22):
weather, we covered a lot ofbasic sensor theory, like how
does radar work, how doesinfrared work?
A lot of electronic warfarestuff. We talked a lot about
navigation. The course veryfocused on air navigation. So
how to figure out where you are,how to navigate an airplane from

(26:46):
one point to the next, how tocalculate your drift, how to
calculate winds aloft. It was alot in a short amount of time,
very challenging.
Some people struggled throughcertain parts. And in the end,
what started as a course witheight students, we graduated

(27:08):
four. So 50% success rate.

Bryan (27:11):
Wow. That's a pretty high attrition rate.

Pat (27:15):
Yeah. I I definitely thought so. I nothing in my army
experience had prepared me for50% acceptable losses kind of
thing.

Bryan (27:23):
Yeah. No kidding. Following training, you were
initially posted to four fifteenMaritime Patrol Squadron in
Greenwood, Nova Scotia on theAurora. Were you excited to get
Aurora's or did you want SeaKings?

Pat (27:35):
Yes to both. I was excited to go with the Aurora and yes, I
wanted Sea Kings. Situation atthe end of the course was very
dynamic. We had the latetraining failure. So I was
talked into going Sea Kings bysome of the instructors that had
talked it up and it was the bestplace to go, the best
experience.
I'm like, okay, I wanna go toSeakings. So I was asking for

(28:00):
four twenty three MaritimeHelicopter Squadron in
Shearwater. And it looked likethat's where I was gonna go. And
then I flew my checkride andcame back, successful checkride.
And my chief instructor pulledme aside saying, Hey, I know you
got your heart set on fourtwenty three, but we are going

(28:22):
to have to replace the other guythat just failed.
And he was going to fourfifteen. Four fifteen really
needs somebody and that's goingto be you. So I said, Oh, okay,
I'm going to Aurora's. And inretrospect after that, I'm like,
yeah, yeah, Aurora sounds prettygood. I had sat in an Aurora
when I was seven years old.

(28:43):
So it kind of a memory tied tothat. I'm like, okay, right.
Aurora is it is. I'm happy withthis. In retrospect, I never
really enjoyed boats.
So it was probably good that Inever went to the Navy.

Bryan (28:56):
Yeah. I always thought that the maritime helicopter
world sounded really cool, butlike the idea of being on a ship
for six months had zero appealto me. So

Pat (29:07):
Yeah. In the end, that's how I looked at it. I mean, I
don't think I could be on on afrigate or a destroyer for six
to seven months only seeingwater. I'm glad that I was moved
to Aurora's and looking back onit twenty years later, that
really worked out for me. So Iwas really excited once it was

(29:30):
all settled.

Bryan (29:31):
For sure. So it's kind of funny that you got switched last
minute from Sea Kings to Aurorasbecause that kind of became a
trend in your career. While youwere mid course on the Aurora,
you were changed from East toWest Coast and posted to four
zero seven Maritime PatrolSquadron in Comox BC. Was that
stressful or were you excited tohead out to BC?

Pat (29:52):
I was absolutely excited to to go to BC. Drove into, so I
was posted to Greenwood that wasin Gagetown at the time. So I
went to Gagetown, picked up mythings after graduating from
Winnipeg. And I drove intoGreenwood on a Sunday, looked
around, everything was closedand you know exactly how

(30:13):
Greenwood can be. I lookedaround, I'm like, where am I?
You know, just wondering andthen started renting a fun, an
apartment to rent, moved in andjust got busy with the course. I
kind of got over my initialshock of coming to the Annapolis
Valley. And I don't want to slagit too much, but I was already

(30:38):
getting the feel that it wasn'treally for me. And one day the
senior ASAP at four zero fourSquadron came into the classroom
and he said, there's been achange on the posting plot. We
need somebody from this group togo to.
As soon as he said the word to,he hadn't even said the location
yet. I had my hand up as I'llgo, I'll take it. And he said,

(30:59):
it's Comox, you sure? I'm like,absolutely. And then within two
weeks, I had a posting message.
So I went to the move office,Brookfield. I walked in and
said, I'm here to close my claimfor the move here to Greenwood.
They signed some papers and Ididn't leave the counter. The

(31:19):
lady said, is there somethingelse we can do for you? Yep.
I'm posted to Comox. I'm here toopen the file.

Bryan (31:26):
The good old days where you had someone to help you
through it all.

Pat (31:30):
Yeah. Before it was all online and you struggled to to
to talk to somebody maybe, butyeah, she was so surprised and
and all the work that they didand it's like, I'm I'm moving
again. They turned me theyturned me around and it was
simply because manpowershortages and four fifteen
Squadron was being closed. Soeverybody was moving to 405. It

(31:51):
was just a unusual timing.
But like you said, the shortposting set the tone for me.

Bryan (31:57):
How was the MOAT course, which is the Maritime
Operational Air Crew Trainingcourse. How was that course for
you on the Aurora?

Pat (32:05):
It was long. It was a long course. Scheduled for six to
eight months. It was very long,but I felt at home doing that
course and then the training.There are some times during the
basic sensor operator course inWinnipeg where things were
foreign.
I had never worked with radarbefore. So there was a bit of a

(32:26):
hump of practical experience toget over and knowledge. But once
I showed up on Mote, it was veryfocused on mission wise. So now
I'm like, okay, I understand andI always enjoyed dealing with
multi crew environments. So itwas great.

(32:47):
The different trades did thecourse together for the most
part. It was challenging, butnot everything was new. It was
just new procedures and newequipment. But that's where
career wise as a sensoroperator, it started feeling
like home. I really, reallyenjoyed the training.

Bryan (33:09):
Yeah. Mode is a long course and it can be fairly
intense sometimes. Like, there'sso much to learn. The Aurora is
a complicated aircraft and themission is complex. There's so
many tactics and procedures tolearn, but it is fun.
It is nice to get be gettingoperationally trained and like
you're gonna finally be doingthe job that you've been

(33:30):
training for for years.

Pat (33:32):
Yeah. It was great because it was no longer abstract like
it was during the basic sensoroperator course. It was like the
first ASW OMS session. It wasgreat because there was that
satisfaction. Okay, I know this,I've studied for that.
Yeah, okay. Finding a submarinelooks exactly the way that they

(33:55):
told us it would and we weresuccessful. We followed the
procedures and it worked. It waslike, okay, you know, like we
always said, the joke was pushbutton, get banana. It really
worked.
So it was like, okay, let's dothis again because now we can do
it better. And I just got tostudy a little bit more, correct

(34:16):
these things. Boom, it worked.It was very much step by step
approach that really led tosuccess. And it was so enjoyable
to work with, you know, a 10 mancrew.
It was a lot of fun. Would domost all over again.

Bryan (34:31):
Yeah. And you mentioned the OMS, that's the operational
mission simulator. And Iremember, it's funny, you talk
about your first sim theremaking so much sense. I remember
as a pilot, my first ride in theOMS and just being totally, you
know, first of all, that was theolder OMS. So there was just a
couple dials for the pilots tofly the plane.
Like, there was no cockpitsetup. But I remember just

(34:53):
feeling like totally in the deepend because we receive I I think
you guys had already beentrained in some of that kind of
stuff. Like for us, it was ourreally our first exposure to
ASW. And for the listeners, ASWis anti submarine warfare. And
we I definitely felt like we'vebeen thrown in the deep end, but
the OMS is such a great tool foreveryone obviously.

(35:15):
But I think pilots kind of tendto groan when they find out
they're in the OMS that day, butit's like the best tool for you
to learn tactics and for you tofinally start to understand ASW.

Pat (35:26):
Yeah, I spent a lot of time at the pilot station in the
legacy OMS simply because pilotswere not available for the
sessions and it was definitelyartificial with an altitude knob
and a turn knob and just a basicscreen. It wasn't really flying
plus you were physically removedbecause you're outside the box.

(35:48):
You're physically removed forthe crew. So for the pilots, it
was definitely less than ideal.I think in subsequent OMS
evolutions, was kind of a littlebetter in that regard.
But just listening to the commsand the standard calls between
the crews and SMM calls, as wecall them, was good for

(36:14):
everyone. And it was such aOther than it didn't move, it
was a really, really goodsimulation of what we would do
on the Aurora when we wereflying.

Bryan (36:24):
For sure. Well, thanks for that Pat. We're gonna shift
gears here and talk to Trevorabout some of his early days and
then we will start talking aboutall your guys worked down in
Curacao. So let's go overTrevor's bio. Lieutenant colonel
retired, Trevor Jube joined theCanadian forces in 1996 under

(36:44):
the regular officer trainingplan.
From 1996 to February, heattended the Royal Military
College in Kingston, Ontario andgraduated with a bachelor's
degree in political science andeconomics. Trevor started pilot
training in Moose Jaw inFebruary 2002 and graduated from
multi engine training in PortageLa Prairie in December 2002.
From 2003 to 02/2008, he wasposted to four zero seven long

(37:06):
range patrol squadron in Comox,British Columbia flying the CP
140 Aurora. During his fiveyears at four zero seven, he
upgraded to maritime patrol crewcommander, unit instrument check
pilot and the pilot standardsand training officer or PSTO. He
deployed to Hawaii and San Diegonumerous times as well as
detachments to Whitehorse,Yellowknife, Kinloss, Shemya and

(37:26):
Curacao.
From 2008 to 2012, he was toGeilichirchen, Germany on the
NATO AWACS E3A Boeing seven zeroseven. He spent two years on the
operational three squadron and afurther two years on the
training squadron reachingaircraft captain as well as a
qualified instructor andevaluator. During his time in
Europe, was also promoted to therank of major. Highlights

(37:47):
include multiple deploymentsaround Europe to NATO's forward
operating bases and threedeployments to the Libyan
conflict. From 2012 to 2014,having enjoyed too many years in
the cockpit, he was posted to aground job in Winnipeg at one
Canadian air division a threespecial events.
There he worked in the specialevents division and as CF
eighteen demo team safety pilot.He spent two years traveling

(38:08):
Canada and The US perfecting hisairshow voice, including a
career highlight of an air showin Medellin, Colombia deploying
as the detachment commander oftwo Hornets and an Airbus. In
2014 to 2015, he was posted incharge of the Advanced
Performance Center in Winnipeg,Manitoba becoming the chief
instructor of instrument checkpilot school and school for

(38:29):
human performance in militaryaviation. In 2015, he was
selected for staff college atthe Canadian Forces College in
Toronto, Ontario and spent ayear enjoying Toronto studying
and completing a master's indefense management. During his
time at Canadian Forces College,he was promoted to lieutenant
colonel.
From 2016 to 02/2018, Trevorreturned to Winnipeg, Manitoba
for his command tour as thecommanding officer of operation

(38:51):
support squadron seventeen wing.This was the first year when
they had combined wing ops, wingtests, wing readiness, military
police, Hornet FOL support andsecurity, the commissionaires
and gate security, wingauxiliary security force,
explosives ordinance disposal,and general wing overall problem
solver. In 2018, a uniqueopportunity arose to leave the

(39:13):
Canadian forces and take aposition in The Caribbean with
PAL Aerospace as their chiefpilot Curacao base. He has been
working in Curacao since then asthe chief pilot Curacao base
operations team representativeand head scheduler for the Dutch
Caribbean coast guard. Trevorhas over seven thousand hours in
maritime patrol and ISR aircraftincluding multiple combat
sorties over Libya.

(39:35):
In summer two thousand twentyfive, Trevor will be returning
to Canada to take the positionas chief pilot for the future
aircrew training or FACT multisensor aircrew trainer or MSAT
that will eventually be based inWinnipeg, Manitoba taking over
training duties of the futureAxo and Aesop's on the new Q400
Citadel. During his days off,Trevor and his family spend

(39:56):
their time traveling andexploring South America, scuba
diving, lionfish hunting,mountain biking and enjoying
Caribbean life. He is married toone of the most adventurous and
resilient women he's ever metand they have identical twin 15
year old boys. So Trevor, wheredid aviation begin for you?

Trevor (40:13):
Aviation for me, Brian, having listened to your show
quite a lot, I have a verysimilar, I guess, trajectory
than a lot of your previousguests. I first started growing
up in Ottawa, till I was about14. Really liked aircraft, you
know, going to air shows,especially in Ontario and that

(40:34):
area of, of Canada. There'salways air shows during the
summer. Had, both mygrandfathers and my grandmother
had served in World War II, sothere was it was quite a,
military heritage in my family.
I was interested, you know, inthe military, interested in
military aviation specifically.And I'm sure people will make

(40:56):
fun of me for telling you this,but, I spent my summers growing
up down in The US in Marylandwith my mother's side of the
family. And Top Gun came out in'86, and it was huge in The
United States. So I went and sawthe movie in theater. You

(41:18):
remember there was a hugeincrease in, navy recruiting
back then.

Bryan (41:22):
No doubt.

Trevor (41:23):
And it stuck with me. You know, I was I was, 10 at the
time. I remember thinking, wow,this is this is amazing that
someone would be able to dothis. So, I was in Ottawa, age
of 12. You know, I asked myparents if I could enroll in
French immersion in grade sevenso I could be ready for an
application in the militarybecause I knew you needed to
have French.

(41:43):
We lived on a horse farm on theoutskirts of Ottawa. So at the
time air cadets wasn't on theradar, but it would be shortly.
My dad was, RCMP. And, in, whenI was around 14, he was posted
to Whitehorse UK and they had anair cadet squadron there. So I

(42:04):
joined five fifty one squadronand, started going through, you
know, being a junior cadet.
My dad was a inspector there atthe at the detachment, the RCMP
detachment, became good friendswith the, the two RCMP pilots
that flew there in Whitehorse.They fly twin otters and they

(42:26):
actually fly single pilot twinotters if you can believe it.

Bryan (42:29):
Really?

Trevor (42:31):
The commanding officer of the detachment there, he had
a, single engine Satabria, fullyaerobatic. The head mechanic had
an old chipmunk. There wasanother, guy on the, field that
had a chipmunk. So on theweekends, I was given the chance
to go fly with these guys out ofWhitehorse. And at the same

(42:52):
time, of course, with cadets, Irealized that I could get my
license as I was doing this.
So, you know, it really startedto solidify what I wanted to do
with my life. I ended up goingto Kochililak to do my glider.
My power was done inYellowknife. And then I came
back the next summer for powerstaff in Yellowknife before I

(43:16):
aged out at cadets. But betweenair cadets and flying to the
north, you know, that's I knewthat's what I wanted to do.

Bryan (43:23):
That's awesome. It's pretty rare for somebody to have
those kinds of opportunities tofly. What was it like to have so
many opportunities to flydiverse set of aircraft in such
a remote area at such a youngage?

Trevor (43:36):
Yeah. You know, at the time, after I got my, my private
license there, you know, I wasin high school. And instead of
hiding out with the friends on aweekend, I went flying with my
dad's coworkers. And I look backnow and I think, I owe those
guys a, a debt. I am I am sograteful that I decided to give

(43:59):
this young teenager, you know,the guidance that they did in
aviation.
And I began to realize I beganto realize that there's there's
so many options out there tofly. And as I mentioned, there
was another pilot there at theWhite Horse Airport that had a
had a chipmunk. And he was acafe, aircraft captain. And that

(44:19):
was the first time I'd metanyone making that type of
money. You know, if any of thecafe pilots that are listening,
he was on the old A class withthe famous million dollar
pension scheme.

Bryan (44:30):
Oh, nice.

Trevor (44:32):
So I realized, you know, you could fly special missions
for the RCMP, you could fly foran airline, Or if your career
wasn't really aviation centric,like the CO, the detachment up
there, you could could buy yourown plane and you can fly on the
weekends.

Bryan (44:47):
Yeah.

Trevor (44:47):
So it made me realize that people who love aviation
will find a way.

Bryan (44:54):
So let's talk about when you joined the military and went
to RMC. When you first appliedfor pilot, the trade was closed,
but you were offered Marsofficer or infantry. What did
you decide to do and why?

Trevor (45:05):
Yeah. This this is a good story. This could have gone
a different different way, Iguess. So, yeah, graduated from
high school in the Yukon in '94and had applied for pilot. But
that was right around the timethat many of the listeners will
remember the FRP, the forcereduction plan, and, pilot was
closed.
They weren't accepting pilotsthat year. So, you know, you you

(45:30):
hear the the classic joke, hey.Do you like camping? I love the
infantry. Oh, Infantry and Marswere open.
And I was, you know, Iconsidered it, but I, I really
was really wanted to fly,especially with this background
in, in the North. So I I starteda diploma of science at Yukon

(45:53):
College, started flying at thelocal, at the Whitehorse Flying
Club and, waited for pilot toopen. So in '95, you know, I
reapplied and pilot was stillclosed, if you can believe it.
And the same offer was on thetable, infantry and Mars. I had
actually also kind of started toconsider joining the RCMP and

(46:17):
their air detachment, butlearned at the time that's
before the air constableprogram.
So you had to serve as a memberin the force for up to seven to
nine years

Bryan (46:29):
Oh, wow.

Trevor (46:30):
Before they'd look at you. And you need to have your
own ratings, which as we know,you know, as someone starting
out is expensive.

Bryan (46:39):
For sure.

Trevor (46:39):
So, yeah, so I decided to, to finish my, diploma of
science there. I had started tofocus on criminology and
policing, and, I tried one moretime for the military after I
graduated. And if it was stillclosed, then, you know, I'd
consider those other militarytrades or even potentially the

(47:01):
RCMP.

Bryan (47:02):
Okay.

Trevor (47:03):
And then ninety six came up and pilot was open and I was
accepted.

Bryan (47:09):
Which must have been a huge relief after all that
waiting.

Trevor (47:13):
Yeah, it's, it it was. I was excited that it was open. I
mean, of course, nervous,because as you know, that's just
that's just the first step.

Bryan (47:24):
Yeah.

Trevor (47:24):
Now you, you've you've been accepted into RMC as a
pilot, but now you still have topass aircrew selection and the
medical and all those things. Soluckily, yeah, I did I did, make
it through and started it in RMCthat year.

Bryan (47:44):
It it's definitely the first hurdle, like you said. Now
I think your experience ispretty timely right now because
many hopeful pilots arecurrently facing the same
scenario, which is a closedtrade and disappointment. What
advice would you give to thosepeople?

Trevor (48:00):
Yeah. That's a great question, Brian. Well, first
thing is the military is anamazing career to have. And I've
had so many friends that startedin aviation and then changed
trades as they progressedthrough their time in the CAF or
the other way around, as youknow, Pat's a perfect example.

(48:21):
It being faced with a closedtrade is, is not the end state,
you know, you just need to, inmy opinion, consider what is
important.
You know, if your goal is to flyairplanes, be it in the military
or elsewhere, then, as I've I'vejust spoken about, there's
options out there. But if yourgoal is to serve our country and

(48:42):
to be part of something biggerthan yourself, then then push
forward with with where you arealready. Keep keep moving
forward with that goal in mind.You know? If if they've gotten
to the point where they'vedetermined been determined
suitable for the CAF and yourpreferred trade is closed,
you're offered something else,then you've already surpassed
the majority of your peers inshowing you're motivated to to

(49:04):
be part of the military.
And I know that a lot of ourlisteners are young and, you
know, I have young boys, don'tnecessarily know what they wanna
do when they grow up. They justknow they want an adventure. And
I'd say that, our military isdefinitely full of adventures.

Bryan (49:24):
Mhmm.

Trevor (49:25):
And choose adventure.

Bryan (49:29):
Yeah. I think that's great advice. So eventually you
did manage to join, like yousaid, and you attended RMC.
Between your second and thirdyear, you did phase one in the
Slingsby Firefly, which youfinished in July 1998. How did
you find your first flighttraining experience in the CAF?

Trevor (49:45):
Yeah. Okay. So it was challenging, for sure. The the
Slingsby Firefly course wasstill a selection as as you
know, and as many listenersknow. It's kind of changed now.
But having been in cadets andobtained my, you know, my
private license during that timeand then my time flying in the

(50:06):
North with a local club, thatwas instrumental to my success
on the Slingsby. Not an easycourse. And, guys I remember
guys were so afraid to makeerrors, and the stress on guys
that had never flown before wasvery high.

Bryan (50:23):
Mhmm.

Trevor (50:25):
As well, you know, during my time at RMC, before I
went to my, before second or theSlingsby during the second and
third year there, I had a chanceto fly at the Kingston, flying
club, build experience. I wasgrabbing anyone that knew more
than me, for flying, how to howto do spins, spiral dives,
whatever I thought would make memore prepared for portage. So

(50:49):
bottom line, my first flighttraining at the chaff was, okay,
so this is the fire hose thatI've heard about.

Bryan (50:56):
Yeah. And, man, we there's a reason you hear that
expression so often in flighttraining in the military. They
just throw so much at you sofast. I think that's one of the
biggest skills you can haveoutside of, you know, initially
anyways, the hands and feet,which can come with time as
well, is just the ability toabsorb that information and to

(51:19):
maintain your composure almostwhen you're presented with this
large amount of stuff to learnand sort of not hit the panic
button.

Trevor (51:27):
Completely agree. It's a I mean, they do a very good job
at, drilling that intocandidates early that, you need
to learn how to prioritize. Findout what's important and what's
not. Learn the important stufffirst and get better at the non
important stuff as you go.

Bryan (51:47):
For sure. At that time, there was a program called the
continuation flying trainingprogram where you were able to
fly at the Kingston Flying Clubduring your last two years at
RMC. Do you think there was muchvalue for money in that for the
CAF, and should they reinstate asimilar program?

Trevor (52:04):
Yeah. That was an excellent program. It gave guys
the ability to keep their handin aviation and stay connected
to that world. Four years atRMC, as you know, is a long
time. It's a long time betweenwhen you start first year as a
recruit and join as a pilot.
Then before you really aregetting to touch an aircraft

(52:26):
again. Now OJT in there is greatand, it serves its purpose for
you to get exposure to differentairframes. But I think from a
morale perspective alone,program should be reinstated.
And in fact, what I saw was noteveryone was using the hours
allocated, you know, becauseespecially at RFC, people get

(52:48):
busy. People have lives that getin the way.

Bryan (52:51):
For sure.

Trevor (52:51):
And and the costs that they had budgeted for this
training for, you know, allpilots that had basically
finished portage and werewaiting for Moose Jaw was a
fraction of what actually wasused. So some of us were very
much enjoyed the opportunity theprogram presented, and and it

(53:12):
allowed us to prepare more forfor Moose Jaw.

Bryan (53:14):
Yeah. And, you know, you talk we talked we sort of
mentioned there, should it bereinstated? Probably a great
time for, I would say, I don'tknow if it'd be the purview of
commander two CAD, but forwhoever it is who would push
this idea with the governmentcurrently looking at ways to
increase our spending to that,well, now 5% GDP eventually on

(53:39):
defense spending, not a bad timeto to propose this this program
come back.

Trevor (53:45):
Yeah. Agree. Any way any way you can keep pilots from
their skills perishing whilethey're waiting for courses is a
good program.

Bryan (53:53):
Yeah. And like you said, I think the big thing, honestly,
like from a practicalstandpoint, you can do some
refresher training after a gapand you'll be okay. I think like
you said, the biggest effect ithas and and you don't want to
understate how important thisis, is morale. Like when you
work so hard, you go on yourphase one and you've worked your

(54:14):
butt off and it was stressfuland you made it through. And
then let's say something happensand there's a big weight for
moose jaw.
That's a pretty big letdown andit can be hard to stay motivated
during that. So I think you hada really important point there
where you mentioned how good itwas for morale.

Trevor (54:34):
Yep, totally agree.

Bryan (54:36):
So after some short delays in starting a master's
degree, you were able to go toMoose Jaw. However, shortly into
the course, there was what musthave felt like a very
disappointing development. Canyou tell us about this?

Trevor (54:47):
Yeah. So this is this is somewhat of a interesting story
and and, you know, how howthings work out in the end. So
after graduation, you know, wewere told Moose Jaw is gonna be
about a year or more. So I droveout to Cold Lake OJT. I did most
of my OJT in Cold Lake on theHornet, four ten and four four

(55:09):
one when the squadron was there.
And then during that summer,decided I've got a whole year
off, might as well go back anddo my MBA, master's of business.
So rented a house in Kingstonwith, three of my good friends,
which was a good and bad,decision at the time, I'm not
sure. But after the firstsemester of completing the MBA

(55:33):
there, I got a call that could Ibe a Moose Jaw for January 1?
And, I decided, yeah, let'spause the masters and I'll I'll
start Moose Jaw in January 1. SoI got got into the ground school
phase, got right up to the IFOground school phase, and then
there was this announcementacross the base that all pilots

(55:55):
are to meet in the baseauditorium.
And this was back if youremember, many, many people will
remember the bubble years asthey call them when, there was
students backed up in Moose Jawdue to the engine issues with
Harvard. So they they called usall in, and I remember the
commandant basically saying, youknow, if you're on this course

(56:17):
number forward, stay seated. Ifyour course number was not
called, leave this room andreport to the Oyler. You're
leaving Moose Jaw forapproximately one year at least.
And, he he basically was like,you can go anywhere you want as
long as it has a base or you cando OGT and the plan makes sense

(56:38):
to the Oyler room.
So, so get out of here. Yeah. Itwas a shock, you know, it was
like, okay, where, where am Igoing to go? And at the time,
you know, I'd done all theHornet OGT, as I said, but I
wanted to try Tackle. I hadfriends in Edmonton.
It was close to Whitehorse andmy parents at the time. So I
said, hey, I'd like to go tofour zero eight Squadron. I also

(57:03):
realized, you know, on mypreview of what I'd seen in
Moose Jaw during the IFR groundschool, that my private pilot's
license was not gonna cut it forthe level of knowledge required.
And there was a couple guys inthis course or our Moose Jaw
course at the start of it that,had their multi IFRS that seemed
to be so far advanced in theirknowledge, you know, on day one

(57:24):
when we started IFR groundschool. So, you know, I knew
Moose Jaw was still a selectionphase.
I wanted to do as well as Icould. So I, I started my multi
IFR in Edmonton at the flyingclub and then, based out of 408
Flying Tachal doing OJT. I had agreat boss, you know, you hear

(57:44):
them in the military, if youdon't have anything to do, don't
do it here type thing.

Bryan (57:48):
Yeah.

Trevor (57:49):
So I I, I did a lot of flying at the Edmonton Flying
Club. Got exposure on theGriffin, which was which was
awesome. I very much enjoyed mytime with, Taco. Nine eleven
happened when I was there, and,it would only solidify what I
was doing with my life. This iswhat I wanna do.

(58:09):
My two weeks of in NorthernAlberta deployed in tents did
though make me realize that, Iwanted multi engine.

Bryan (58:20):
Yeah. That's fair. I I also did OGT with a TacHell
squadron, and I thoroughlyenjoyed getting to know that
community and getting to go forflights on the Griffin with the
doors pinned back and all thatkind of stuff was really cool.
But it also, I had this sort ofthe same realization that, you
know, this is fun. I did basicland survival during that time

(58:42):
as well.
And I was like, you know, Ialways thought I really enjoyed,
you know, camping, things likethat, time outside. I did not
love basic land survival andsort of my time in tackle made
me realize like maybe multiengine's a little more my speed.

Trevor (59:01):
Yeah. I I've always said that I think tachel is some of
the coolest flying that you cando in our air force.

Bryan (59:09):
100%.

Trevor (59:10):
It just I realized it wasn't for me. Yeah. And I was
fortunate that I figured thatout early enough, you know, and
I realized that although I lovedHornets and fast jets, that, I
think multi engine was gonna bemore my speed as you say. So I,
you know, I went to Moose Jawready for what I needed to do.

Bryan (59:30):
So as you said, you went back to Moose Jaw and restarted
phase two. How was your secondkick at the can?

Trevor (59:37):
Yeah. So went back, Feb two, so it was a little bit
over, you know, it was thirteenmonths. So the common op was
pretty close to his assessment.And I was motivated now. I knew
what I wanted to do.
I had the background behind me,multi IFR.

Bryan (59:54):
And for the listeners, IFR is instrument flight rules
versus VFR, which is visualflight rules.

Trevor (01:00:01):
And the moose shot is a hard course.

Bryan (01:00:03):
Yeah.

Trevor (01:00:03):
I mean, it's you can't underscore the difficulty and
the amount of information that'spushed at you at that course.
But I very much enjoyed theHarbor two. That aircraft is
just so fun to fly. I'd sayprobably my favorite phases were
the IFR phase, and the formphase at the end. Had some

(01:00:23):
excellent pilots on my course.
You know, I remember landingfrom flights and checking with
guys how they'd done. And, thetwo lead pilots of Apache and
Bandit, Apache lead is actuallySnowbird lead right now, Brent
Handy.

Bryan (01:00:40):
Okay.

Trevor (01:00:40):
And then the head of Bandit was Ian DeCarlo who flies
for top bases in Cold Lake rightnow. Right. Those guys would
land and they were, like,inhuman. You know? They always
had snakes, as you remember,superior assessments on their
flights.
So that only increased my desireto do better, and it became, you
know, a competition between thethree of us in the Apache bandit

(01:01:03):
Cobra flights. And then I endedup, they topped their respective
flights. I topped Cobra. Ifinished July 2 and we were two
zero one was our course number.And a funny fact is that, our
course patch was a casino themewith a dice in the center

(01:01:24):
roulette wheel.
And all the patches were paidfor with money, one from the
Moose Jaw Casino.

Bryan (01:01:31):
The Moose Jaw Casino.

Trevor (01:01:33):
This was before the new casino with the spa. You know,
this is the guys will rememberthe the shipping container
casino in the parking lot, theGrumble parking lot.

Bryan (01:01:42):
Okay. That I must have been at the new one then. That's
funny.

Trevor (01:01:45):
Yep.

Bryan (01:01:48):
So as you said, you topped your course. You
requested multi engine, whichyou were selected for. How did
you find the phase three coursediffered from previous selection
courses?

Trevor (01:01:58):
Phase three, to get there and that you could
immediately tell on the firstday of the mood shift that this
was a training course instead ofa selection course. You know,
the instructors, many of whom Istill keep track of today or or
chat with, they were they werethere to train and guide and
mentor and put wings on yourchest, which was a different

(01:02:22):
mind shift, you know. Very muchenjoyed the course. Even if we
still were flying ADP approachesin the mountains, which I, I do
shake my head at now thinkingback, you know. But, yeah, just
that the the course ofdeploying, going on cross
country's two crew environments.

(01:02:44):
Yeah. Loved it.

Bryan (01:02:46):
Yeah. It's a fun course. And we've kind of said this a
few times on the show, but theythey finally start treating you
like adults. Not that you'retreated poorly in previous
courses, but on this course,they're like, okay. You're
you're about to become a aprofessional pilot.
We're gonna mentor you and shapeyou into that professional
pilot. So like you said, it'sjust a little different from the
previous courses.

Trevor (01:03:08):
Yeah. Totally agree.

Bryan (01:03:10):
Yeah. So you were selected Auroras on the West
Coast. Was this what you wantedand why?

Trevor (01:03:17):
So on the course, we had, one Herc slot, one West
Coast Aurora, and the rest wereEast Coast Aurora slots. And I
had selected Auroras on the WestCoast. I was excited to get
Comox. I mean, you know, havingcome from the West Coast, having
lived in the mountains, I waslooking forward to to getting
back and and doing that again.Little did I know, though, the

(01:03:42):
moat was so backed up that I'dspent spent a whole year pretty
much waiting in Comox to get onthe moat.
Yeah. Meanwhile, my buddy whowent on Herx was loaded almost
immediately and was done as o toyou before I was even before I
was even, flying. But, you know,I did a lot of I did a lot of

(01:04:03):
gravity sports as I call them.Flew a lot on the Aurora,
sitting on the the radar rackthere, watching guys. Actually,
it was funny.
It was only it was after onlyabout a year that an old FE took
a paper clip and showed me howyou could put it on the radar
rack and it would float midair

Bryan (01:04:20):
when

Trevor (01:04:20):
the radar was on. Yeah. I wish I had known that before I
sat there before I sat there fora whole year. Went back to
Portage actually in December, todo my ticket because, of course,
my ticket was gonna expire. I'vebeen sitting for so long and
then, started Mote in March '4.

Bryan (01:04:39):
And how how was Mote for you? I know we were trained by
some of the same people such asthe legendary Paul Terpy and Al
Eau Claire. I imagine youprobably knew Mary Cameron Kelly
as well who has recently had afair bit of press.

Trevor (01:04:54):
Yeah. What an amazing person.

Bryan (01:04:56):
Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Trevor (01:04:57):
She's great. Yeah. I never actually personally flew
with her. She might actuallybeen on her exchange when I was
through there.

Bryan (01:05:03):
On the Nimrod?

Trevor (01:05:05):
Yeah. Yeah.

Bryan (01:05:06):
Yeah. I think she was like was a short lived exchange,
I believe, though, because Ithink they they canceled their
Nimrod program as she was there,if I recall.

Trevor (01:05:15):
Yeah. Paul Turfie, one of the most patient men you'll
ever meet.

Bryan (01:05:20):
Oh, yeah.

Trevor (01:05:21):
Of course, Al Eau Claire is bigger than life.

Bryan (01:05:24):
Yep. Yeah. He's still a sim instructor. Well, he was
when I left anyway, still a siminstructor.

Trevor (01:05:29):
Yeah. What an amazing aircraft. They I mean, you flew
it actually, I could stillrecognize those engines anywhere
I go even I see the aircraft.Yeah. You know, sometimes we get
them down here in Curacao.
And the start of your podcast,the Aurora start sequence is
awesome, by the way.

Bryan (01:05:46):
Yeah. I that's kind of a little nod to my flying
heritage. So for listeners, thisis kind of a little Easter egg,
but the checklist you hear atthe beginning of the of every
episode is the Aurora startsequence, and that is an Aurora
starting up. And the flyby nowthe flyby is technically a Herc,
but the Herc has the sameengines as the Aurora, and that

(01:06:08):
was the only sound effect Icould get. But that was kind of
that was kind of the littleEaster egg that we put in there.
And the second Easter egg issince I created the show while
we're here in Portage Prairie,the runway that that gets
cleared for takeoff is therunway that you train on in
multi in Portage La Prairie.

Trevor (01:06:25):
Oh, that's cool. Now, well, we always say that the
Hurt guys have the enginesmounted the wrong way anyway.

Bryan (01:06:30):
That's right. There's our upside down.

Trevor (01:06:33):
Yeah. The moke course, it it was a challenging course.
It was long as Pat hadmentioned. I actually remember a
conversation, in Moose Jawbefore I went with, Jeremy
Hansen, our astronaut who was ona course ahead of me at Moose
Jaw. We're sitting there in themess on a Friday with a beard,
discussing OTUs and difficultylevels, you know.

(01:06:55):
I remember talking about how theHornet OTU was so difficult. And
I still remember him saying thatthe Aurora Mo was not too far
behind.

Bryan (01:07:06):
Yeah. I've heard that as well.

Trevor (01:07:08):
Yeah. That stuck in my head. So when I went to
Greenwood, I studied, studiedvery hard. Of course, coming
from Comox, I was living in thebarracks. So I had a very good
friend of mine, Paul, GilbertPeig.
Oh, yeah. Who was, of course youknow Paul, probably. Yep. He

(01:07:29):
was, of course, made of mine,and and he was living in
Greenwood with his family. Soluckily, I could carpool to work
with him.
And and that, that was a hugemorale boost to have him to be
able to go downtown. You know?Yeah. So we I finished moat in
July '4, and then, you know, thespeed that things happen by by

(01:07:52):
the July 29. So seven dayslater, was in Comox doing my
unit checkout with the c o fourzero seven.
It's crazy.

Bryan (01:07:59):
Yeah. Yeah. It's wild how fast things go sometimes. Okay
guys, that is going to wrap uppart one of our chat. Thank you
so much for sharing some ofthose stories of your early
days.
I'm really looking forward toour next chat when we get into
the work you're doing now. Sothank you both for being here
today and I'm looking forward tothe next one.

Trevor (01:08:17):
Thanks for having us, Brian. Yeah. Thanks very much.

Bryan (01:08:21):
Okay. That wraps up part one of our chat with Pat and
Trevor. For our next episode,tune in next week as we continue
our chat with some of theoperational experiences they
had, and then we'll get intowhat they're doing now with
Powell Aerospace and the DutchCaribbean coast guard for search
and rescue and counternarcotics. Do you have any
questions or comments aboutanything you've heard in this
show? Would you or someone youknow make a great guest, or do

(01:08:43):
you have a great idea for ashow?
You can reach out to us at [e-mail] or
on all social media at at podpilot project. And be sure to
check out that social media forlots of great videos of our RCAF
and mission aviation aircraft.As always, we'd like to thank
you for tuning in and ask foryour help with the big three.
That's like and follow us onsocial media, share with your

(01:09:04):
friends, and follow and rate usfive stars wherever you get your
podcasts. That's all for now.
Thanks for listening. Keep theblue side up. See you.

Pat (01:09:14):
Engineer, shut down all four. Shutting down all four
engines.