Counter-Drug and Search and Rescue Aviation in the Caribbean with PAL Aerospace
What is it like to fly counter-drug interdiction and Search and Rescue missions in the Caribbean? What does it take to qualify for this demanding aviation work, and how do crews prepare to execute missions as part of Joint Interagency Task Force South (JIATF-South)?
In this episode, retired RCAF Lieutenant-Colonel Trevor Juby, now Chief Pilot with Provincial Airlines / PAL Aerospace in Curaçao, and retired RCAF Master Warrant Officer Pat Lalande, now a tactical coordinator and mission commander with PAL Aerospace, discuss their transition from the Royal Canadian Air Force to international operations in the Caribbean.
They provide insight into the training, teamwork, and operational challenges of counter-drug and SAR missions, while highlighting the crucial role PAL Aerospace plays in supporting multinational efforts to disrupt trafficking and save lives.
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Bryan (00:58):
Alright. We're ready for departure here at the pilot
project podcast, the best sourcefor stories and advice from RCAF
and mission aviation pilotsbrought to you by Sky's
Magazine. I'm your host, BrianMorrison. With me today is
Trevor Juby, a retired RCAFlieutenant colonel and current
base chief pilot with PowellAerospace in Curacao, and Pat
Lalonde, a retired RCAF masterwarrant officer and current
(01:20):
tactical coordinator and missioncommander with Powell Aerospace
in Curacao. Guys, welcome backto the show.
I've been looking forward tothis.
Trevor (01:27):
Thanks, Brian.
Pat (01:29):
Thanks, Brian. Happy to be here.
Bryan (01:31):
Listeners can check out part one for some stories about
the early days of Pat and Trevorin the RCAF and the CAF in
general. They can check out parttwo to hear about their
operational experiences and whatled them to PAL as well as some
of the general descriptions ofthe mission with PAL and
Curacao. Now for today, in partthree, we'll be diving deep into
what their mission is, what itconsists of, and how they
(01:53):
prosecute it. So let's talk abit about you've mentioned that
your primary role is SAR. Let'stalk about SAR in The Caribbean.
So as in any maritime setting,SAR calls happen. Trevor, you've
mentioned that SAR is actuallyofficially your primary mandate.
Can you tell us a little bitabout, how that works on the
Dash eight?
Trevor (02:12):
Yeah. For sure, Brian. So we have two Dash eights down
here, and then our sistercompany, Bristow, has two rotary
wing assets. And we have onecrew that is always on call,
ready one as we call it, readyto respond to an operation, and
(02:33):
with SAR being obviously theprimary. So the the SAR rescue
chain goes something like this.
You know? So we get alerted thatthere is a missing fishing boat,
for example. The dash will belaunched for the SAR. We'll head
to the last known locationthrough coordination with, the
(02:54):
taco in the back, like Pat.He'll be talking back and forth
with the rescue coordinationcenter about, you know, what's
the what's the size of the boat?
What does it look like? Wherewas it last seen? Last port of
call, next port of call. Allthose standard things you'd
expect with maritime SAR. Andthen we start trying to build a
picture as we are arriving onscene.
(03:15):
So we're using non visualsensors to try and pick this
target up either by radar orother sensors. And let's say we
have a successful SARS, welocate the target. We'll get on
scene. We'll get visual withthem with our camera systems,
probably descend low level toassess if they need assistance.
(03:39):
The dash sheets down here havean ability to drop their search
and rescue rafts that willinflate.
We have smoke markers that canbe dropped. We have drift
markers as well as satellitedrift markers that can be
dropped. So we are able to get,you know, long distances fast to
(04:00):
a to a scene, establish on scenecommander, establish what the
need is. And then if there is nosurface vessels in the general
vicinity, we will call thehelicopter who will then come in
as lowboy. We will climb tounseen commander at a higher
altitude.
They'll wedge their, survivorson board, and then we'll fly
(04:24):
back. And, usually, as you'veheard the term duck butting,
which basically escorting thehelo back to base to successful
end of a SAR, where theambulances or further rescue
coordination people will arriveat the Haddock Air Base. We
actually have a, we have areally cool wooden, board
(04:44):
outside of the base. And I'llget I'll get a picture for you
so you can put I know that youkinda do some social media
stuff. But every year, we keeptrack of the lives that are
saved either through us orthrough Bristow and and their
their crews.
And every year, it's in the 30to 40 range of people that are
(05:07):
saved.
Bryan (05:07):
Wow.
Trevor (05:08):
So we are very busy. Wow.
Bryan (05:13):
You mentioned that you bring in the helicopter if
there's not another surfacevessel in the area. What do you
think is more common to have tocall in a helicopter or is it is
it are you often able to workwith another surface vessel to
affect a rescue?
Trevor (05:26):
Yeah. I mean, Pat, feel free to chime in. But I mean, a
lot of times, you'll see thelarger tankers, moving, you
know, east to west, west toeast. And, you know, if we call
them while the sea is is thatthey shall respond to a search
and rescue and help us. Andwe'll try to use vessels like
(05:46):
that, especially if it's outsideof the range of the helicopter.
But a lot of times, if,especially, for example, a
drifting fishing boat where theymay have been drifting for a
certain amount of time, we needspecialists to to winch down and
get them on board immediately sothey could be treated.
Bryan (06:07):
Oh, yeah.
Trevor (06:08):
And we have some amazing rescue swimmers, winchmen and
winch operators that work atBristow. You know, some of them
coming from British, very veryclose to our Sartex that we have
in Canada.
Bryan (06:20):
Oh, Are there any do you know if there's any ex Sartax
there or
Trevor (06:25):
We don't have any Canadian Sartax down here only
because I think that they wehaven't recruited them yet. But
now that they hear this show,they might be giving us a call.
Pat (06:35):
Yeah. Probably just did some recruiting for Bristol
there.
Bryan (06:38):
There you go.
Pat (06:40):
No, there is a large amount of commercial, vessel traffic
throughout The Caribbean. So ina lot of cases, it's only
drifting a or disabled sailingvessel or fishing vessel or any
of those things. It's alwayswhen it's pretty far as where's
my nearest, I can see it in theback of the airplane on AIS or
(07:05):
using our radar. And it's neverbeen an issue. It's a call them
up on the radio on the emergencyfrequencies, tell them what I
need.
And I've never had an issue toMariners know what it's like.
And they know that maybesometimes it could be them.
Their reaction is always, wheredo I need to go? What's the
(07:27):
situation? And they ask what weneed from them.
And they're usually getting tothe scene as best that they can.
It's always up to the on scenecommander to sort out, but I've
never had an issue askingcommercial vessels to come in
and render assistance.
Bryan (07:46):
I feel like that's very similar to aviators in that we
all know, like if there's a,let's say an ELT going off,
which for the listeners isemergency locator transmitter,
You know, we all we all knowlike, hey, that that could be us
one day who needs help. And andso you'll find that aircraft are
quite eager to help locate or toto contribute in any way they
(08:10):
can when when that kind ofsituation arises. So I imagine
it's very, very similar when itcomes to mariners.
Trevor (08:16):
Yeah. You totally agree.
Pat (08:18):
Yeah. It's the exact same thing.
Bryan (08:20):
Trevor, can you share a memorable SAR mission with us?
Trevor (08:24):
Yeah, definitely. So this one this one is one that
I'll remember for my lifetime.So coming back from the S S S,
remember that's the SaintMartin's Seychaseva patrol to
the north. That's takes ususually about two hours, two and
a half hours to get to SaintMartin. We'll do a patrol up
(08:46):
there, and then we'll come back.
The mission profile was that wewere going to swing south of the
islands for a final sweep withthe radar and then come in for
land. So we've got very littlegas left, and, we pick up a
contact behind us, probablyabout 15 miles or so behind us,
(09:11):
that we had descended over topand no one had seen, but the
radar saw it as it could lookbehind. So had a very
experienced taco on board who'ssince retired, but he was he was
mister Sar. And he, and myselfagreed, let's turn around and
have a look, see what that is.And so we came in on this
(09:33):
position.
I had to send it down to aboutfive hundred feet, and, we come
upon a sand a fishing vessel,and there's six guys standing on
top of this vessel waving theirhands, waving flags. They are
they are desperate, to get ourattention.
Bryan (09:51):
Oh, wow.
Trevor (09:52):
So we fly by and, and then of course quickly calculate
how much gas we can stay for.And we've got about fifteen,
twenty minutes that we can staythere for. So came in a couple
of more low passes to make surethat they saw us. We dropped
smoke markers to mark theirposition. And then it just
happened that, our navy ship,the West India guard ship was in
(10:15):
the area.
So they we vectored them over,and, they towed them to the
closest island, which wasBonaire. And what's funny is
that by fluke, we had adeployment to Bonaire the next
day, and I was going there withthe taco that I was flying this
mission on. So we had a chanceto go down to the to the dock
(10:36):
where they had moored thisfishing boat with these six guys
and meet these guys. Obviously,they all spoke, Spanish. You
know, it was a Venezuelanfishing bark, and they'd been
drifting for fourteen days.
Bryan (10:48):
Oh my gosh.
Trevor (10:49):
And they had they had given up. So they were they were
very happy to shake our handsand the captain said, you saved
their life.
Bryan (10:58):
Wow. That must have been quite a feeling.
Trevor (11:01):
Yeah. It was a great feeling. It's good. Good news
story.
Bryan (11:04):
Yeah.
Trevor (11:04):
Those are the type of stories, you know, that you that
stick with you. And I thinkeveryone here, on our operation
down here has a story like thator probably has more stories
than they could tell. And it'sit's amazing to see when you
have a SAAR spin off happening,guys are guys are ready to go.
It's mission first.
Bryan (11:25):
Yeah. Having just I was telling you guys this offline,
but just yesterday, I got homefrom doing a interview in Comox
with four forty two Squadron,search and rescue squadron. And
the star world is amazing. Likeeverybody is so mission focused
and ready to go all the time.And it's just like such a
(11:48):
mission you can get behind andbelieve in.
So I imagine that's quiterewarding.
Trevor (11:52):
Yeah, totally.
Bryan (11:56):
So Pat, same question. I understand you have a story
involving a sailor fromMontreal.
Pat (12:01):
Yeah, that's a good one for a couple of reasons because one,
it really highlights the factthat you plan your missions with
what you know and theneverything can change the moment
the wheels are off the runway.At any moment, you'll be doing
another mission that wasn't partof your day. And it's also
(12:24):
happened fairly recently, so itreally sticks out in my mind. So
we were tasked to the S S S areafor a patrol up there. So we
took off, started to climb, wehad decided to go high level
that day.
And at about 14,000 feet on VHFchannel 16, the emergency
(12:44):
channel, I suddenly hear Mayday,Mayday, Mayday. And then the guy
says the name of his vessel andstops there. No further
transmissions, no position,nothing. Just Mayday and the
name of his boat. And soimmediately switched to SAR
(13:08):
mode, the patrol in the S S S isover.
We've got a Mayday call torespond to, but I have no idea
where this guy is And I'm at14,000 feet. So my radio
reception range, the area ofprobability is massive. And so I
call on the radio, I call on theradio for this guy and no
(13:30):
response, no response, noresponse. Well we got to find
it. This is the search part ofsearch and rescue.
So we talked to the crew, weinvestigated a couple of
possibilities that didn't turnout to be him. So what do we do?
Worked it out as a crew, came upwith, well let's go based on
(13:51):
what we know and we'll go searchover here and if not we'll go to
over here sort of a plan withthe absolute limited information
that we had. So it was astandard patrol that instantly
became a completely differenttasking. We were lucky that some
(14:13):
of the assumptions that we madeturned out to be true and we
found this catamaran thatmatched the name, within thirty
minutes of starting.
Found him, yep, that's the guy.Buzzed him at low altitude to
get his attention and he came upon the radio and I said, hey,
(14:35):
this is Dutch Guru and CoastGuard patrol aircraft. My name
is Patrick. What's going on onyour boat? And he's telling me,
you know, he's taken on water.
He doesn't have propulsion. Theseas are rough. So set up. Okay,
are you hurt? You know, assessthe situation.
Called a cargo ship that was thenearest one was still a few
(15:00):
hours away. They said, okay,we'll head that way. They're on
their way. I contacted therescue coordination center to
try to get a plan going,apprised them of the location,
the situation and talked to thegentleman on the boat who was by
himself. He was ascertained thathe's a guy from Montreal, French
(15:23):
speaker, so I started, he wasexcitable.
I started talking to him Frenchbecause that's my first language
in French and then I coordinateda plan. We've got a cargo ship
coming. I talked to the rescuecoordination center. We figured
out that it was in range of thehelicopter. So I talked to him,
said, what do you wanna do?
(15:43):
We can if the helicopter comesout, you'll have to abandon your
vessel. And he's like, yes. Iwant off of the boat. So we kept
an eye on, kept an eye on him tomake sure because he said he was
taken on water. So we wanna beready for anything.
As Trevor said, you know, candrop life rafts. So if this
(16:04):
catamaran starts really sinking,this may turn into a raft drop
situation. So get the crewready, talk about review the
procedures and stand ready forthat. The helicopter came out.
We had good communications withthe helicopter.
They knew exactly where to go.And it's one of those textbooks.
(16:25):
Then I called the guy on theradio again and I explained to
him, this is what the helicopteris going to going to do when it
arrives. Somebody's going towinch down to you. Do the
following things and get readyfor them and make sure that he
understood what that process wasgoing to be.
And it went flawlessly. Thehelicopter showed up. They said
(16:49):
they asked me what the situationwas. I briefed them, told them
that I briefed the guy on theboat about how it's gonna go.
And then we made sure that westayed ready while the winching
happened and we watched this guyget winched off and then
escorted the helicopter all theway back to Curacao.
(17:14):
It's one of my most recentrescue events, but it really
sticks out in my mind because assoon as we took off, our entire
mission changed. And that's whatI love about flying here, that
you plan a mission,
Bryan (17:26):
you
Pat (17:26):
brief a mission, you take off and you go into something
completely different.
Bryan (17:31):
Yeah. Which is very similar to the Aurora world. I'd
like, you I mean, not not asmuch, like, because it's we
weren't primary SAR as you guysare down there, But it's kind of
one of those things where youjust never know what you're
gonna get in an eight hourpatrol.
Pat (17:45):
Yeah. And it it's always like that. Every single flight
will bring something will bringsomething new. Some days you're
flying just north of the islandand you get retasked and you
have to go all the way byTrinidad. Some days you go
north, you're working nearDominican Republic or you're a
standard patrol.
(18:06):
It's the standard six hours,you're completely bored out of
your mind and all of a sudden acall comes and it's absolute
chaos, and you have to worryabout helicopters, warships, and
you start making a plan becauseyou're you're gonna be out of
fuel. You need another crew toto come out. It's the the
dynamic nature is is what keepsme at it.
Bryan (18:28):
Awesome. Let's get into some of the counter drug
operations. Pat, as the tacticalcoordinator and mission
commander, what is PAL and theDutch Coast Guard's overall
mission during counter drugoperations?
Pat (18:41):
For us, it's mostly detection and tracking and then
helping to coordinate what wecall the end game. So the
interceptions, that's the longand short of it.
Bryan (18:58):
Okay. How does it feel to go from being a sensor operator
to conducting the mission as thecommander?
Pat (19:05):
For me it was sort of the next logical career progression.
I had been a brand new sensoroperator, sensor operator
supervisor, readiness andstandards evaluator and deputy
flight commander. So it was sortof the next flying career
leadership, career progression.If I had stayed in the Air
(19:31):
Force, I think that would havebeen the next logical step. So
that's essentially what I did,but as a civilian as opposed to
a service member.
Bryan (19:40):
Okay. How do you feel your previous experience helps
you to do this well?
Pat (19:45):
Well, everything I did in the Aurora led to to this moment
because it's very much a creweffort. Here we have a crew of
four. In the Aurora, had a crewof 10 or more. So I was already
used to working and leveraging afair number of crew members even
(20:06):
when I was a lead sensoroperator on the Aurora. So
everything that I did and allthose hours, I had four thousand
five hundred hours on the Aurorabefore I stopped flying.
I made it possible to do thisjob here and do it fairly well.
Bryan (20:24):
Yeah. That's a lot of hours, by the way. Congrats on
that. Thanks. Trevor, you arethe base chief pilot for
Curacao.
How do you feel your previousRCAF experience has helped
prepare you for this role?
Trevor (20:37):
Well, to be honest, when I when I left the RCAF and came
down here, I felt like I'd leftone military for another. And I
was just on an outcan exchange.Many of our SOPs are actually
based on the Aurora, includingthe SAR drop pattern
Bryan (20:51):
Okay.
Trevor (20:52):
Which made my transition down here pretty easy. It's
funny when we when I was beingdemoed the the drop pattern for
our survival rafts, I quicklyrealized I'm like, this is this
is the SCAD pattern. Somebodysomebody stole this from the
Aurora guys, didn't they? Andthat, you know, it made my
(21:14):
transition happen quite quickly.And then, of course, working
with different countries, flyingwith NATO.
I mean, we lived in, Germanyright on the border with The
Netherlands. We were in Hollandall the time. I understood the
culture. I understood the theoperation. And and it was, you
know, coming from the Aurora,coming from the, from the AWACS
(21:36):
operational into an operationalunit, it it just seemed like the
an easy transition.
And we are fully operationaldown here, which makes things
exciting and interesting as Pathas mentioned.
Bryan (21:49):
So what would you say is similar and what's different
from those experiences?
Trevor (21:52):
Yeah. While there's many similarities actually between
the flying for this operationdown here and my time in the
military. Our operationultimately here is a business,
right?
Bryan (22:02):
Right.
Trevor (22:03):
So ensuring we're providing a service to the
client while moving forward, youknow, with an operational
mindset. It reminds me of when Iwas flying MPATs and Comox at
407. And one of the patrols weused to do was called the inner
patrol. Pat will remember these,you know, was the shipping and
fishing areas in and aroundVancouver Island. And when you
(22:26):
were tasked with an innerpatrol, you knew that there was
literally hundreds of contactsthat you're going to be tasked
to identify.
And this was before we had theMX 20. So you had, you know,
sensor operator sitting over thefirst officer's shoulder, taking
pictures, and we take picturesof every single contact to
identify them. And then PowellAerospace, was flying their King
(22:48):
Airs out there. They started tobe tasked with the inner patrol
area, and we'd be sent to theouter patrol area where the
Aurora really would show off itsdistance. Right?
But I remember Powell had an AISreceiver onboard their aircraft,
and they could complete thisinner patrol area with a King
Air in a fraction of the time itcost compared to the Aurora.
Bryan (23:09):
Yeah. I just wanna explain to the audience that an
AIS is essentially like atransponder for ships.
Trevor (23:15):
So I remember thinking, even back then that this company
is working smarter, you know,and not harder. Yeah. And now we
are down here, flash forward nowto we got these two highly
modified dash eights withcutting edge ISR capability,
with agility and flexibilitythat is not possible for the
changes that we can do in theRCAF. So it's it's interesting
(23:38):
to see the differences, but theparallels are there.
Bryan (23:41):
Yeah. How would you say your role as a pilot on the Dash
eight compares to your role as acrew commander on the Aurora?
Trevor (23:48):
It's actually very similar. I'd say it aligns more
with the maritime patrolcaptain, and the tackle fills
the role of the the MPCC, thecrew commander. But our aircraft
captains here are very muchlike, aircraft captains in the
military, where they're, they'rewe're self dispatching. They do
all their own flight planning,weather no TAMs. And then
(24:10):
they're they're fully into thetactical picture, eating the
taco, to employ the aircraftwhile ensuring the crew is is
safe.
You know? We we trust theaircraft captains very much
where we can deploy them prettymuch anywhere in The Caribbean,
North America, and know thatthey'll adapt to the changing
conditions. And that's that'ssomething that we trust all of
(24:31):
our aircraft captains in themilitary to do, and I think
it's, it's really cool that wecan do that.
Bryan (24:36):
Yeah. Can you briefly describe Joint Interagency Task
Force South or Jayad of South tous please?
Trevor (24:45):
Yeah, for sure. I'll keep this as unclass. Yeah. So
JAVS South as we, everyone callsit a joint inter agency task
force. It's located in, KeyWest, Florida, Naval Air Station
Key West.
And their job is to detect andmonitor D and M operations
(25:07):
throughout the joint operatingarea down here. So through this
joint operating area, and theyfacilitate interdiction of of
counter drug. It's both insupport of their national
security as well as partnernational security. And countries
that are included, Argentina,Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia,
(25:33):
Costa Rica, the DOMREC orDominican Republic, Ecuador, El
Salvador, France, Guatemala,Honduras, Jamaica, Mexico, The
Netherlands, Panama, Peru,Spain, Trinidad, Tobago, and
United Kingdom.
Bryan (25:48):
Wow.
Trevor (25:50):
So that's a that level of, effort needs a coordination
cell that is as robust and aslarge as the people involved.
Bryan (26:01):
Shows you the importance of the mission that that many
countries are taking part andcooperating together.
Trevor (26:06):
Exactly.
Bryan (26:07):
Yeah. Pat, can you give us a brief overview of the role
of PAL within JF South?
Pat (26:14):
Yeah. Sure. So for us, it's, it's about what the, the
client requires. From a PALperspective, the client sets the
mission. If they say today,you're tasked to support Jide of
South.
A company and as companyemployees, that's what we do.
(26:35):
Me, as a mission commander, itjust changes who I talk to on
the other end of the radio.Frequently we'll be previously
planned tasking to Jahad ofself, but sometimes they're re
tasking. We just get that fromthe client and we respond
accordingly.
Bryan (26:58):
Pat, can you tell us how a PAL Dash eight is crewed for
these missions?
Pat (27:01):
Yeah. So we are operating on a crew of four. So two
pilots, a sensor operator and atactical coordinator, a mission
commander. In the past we usedto run crews of up to six, with
visual observers, but thatstopped well before I came here.
So right now it's three on mostflights, three of the crew are
(27:28):
PAL employees, the pilots andthe sensor operators.
And other than myself, thetactical coordinator mission
commanders are actually, fromthe clients, which are all, from
the Royal Netherlands Navy.
Bryan (27:43):
Okay. Trevor, Giant of South manages to seize about 10%
of the annual flow of cocainethrough the area. Is that a
target they aim to meet, and arethey hoping to increase it?
Trevor (27:55):
Yeah. So that's that's a sensitive topic for sure. So
while there's still varioustrafficking routes to Europe
that still exist, transshipmentthrough The Caribbean, including
through the Europeanterritories, here down down here
in this area, is a region ofgrowing concern for sure. And
(28:17):
as, you know, as we know, The UShas been pretty much the de
facto market for cocaine,originated from South America,
from our southern neighbors, youknow, since it became really
popular in the sixties, but adecline in US cocaine
consumption in the past decade,you know, as long as we bring in
these synthetic drugs likefentanyl and etcetera. It's kind
(28:39):
of left an opening in the globalnarcotics market, you know, with
high levels of supply.
So Europe is one of those, moreprofitable new markets. It's
pretty much the best I can saythere, Brian.
Bryan (28:52):
Yeah. No problem. So Pat, recognized maritime picture or
RMP is an essential concept toknowing what is out there on the
ocean and finding vessels. Canyou explain what this is and how
it is used?
Pat (29:05):
Okay. So building the RMP is, of course, job number one
where when we go out in thepatrol, it's all about
identifying who is there, whateverybody is doing and comparing
if it's legitimate activity orif it's not legitimate or
anything that warrantsattention. So that's why we're
(29:29):
out there patrolling andidentifying everything,
comparing the information thatwe get from various sources and
comparing what we get from ouronboard sensors and being able
to deliver to the client, here'swhat's happening, during the
last six hours in the patrolarea that that you selected.
Bryan (29:49):
So it basically provides an overview of the vessel
activity within the area you'vebeen patrolling.
Pat (29:54):
Exactly. That's exactly what we do.
Bryan (29:58):
Trevor, what is important for you as the search area is
approached? What are you doingduring this time?
Trevor (30:05):
Okay. So approaching a search area for a known target
of interests, and this could be,you know, this could be search
and rescue. You're looking for amissing fishing boat. This could
be a missing diver in the water.This could be a a target of
interests that we've beenrelayed by some of our partners.
You change the way you obviouslyapproach the search area, but if
(30:26):
this is something that I don'tknow what it is, and there's
times where we'll get contactsthat we don't know what they
are, initially. So we'll alwaysapproach with covert status with
stealth, and we'll use our longdistance sensors as we've spoken
about how we how we use this,ISR sensor fusion, you know,
(30:47):
when we're conductingsurveillance. So we try to stay
beyond the visual range until weestablish what it is, and then
we can close, gain more detailsas required.
Bryan (30:59):
One thing I remember from, the Aurora is that as we
kind of approach into the searcharea, one of the first things
you do as a pilot is evaluatethe primary swell, the wind
direction, that kind of stuff.Like, are you still doing those
basics when you arrive in thearea?
Trevor (31:15):
Yes. For sure. That's something that I still do still
do to this day when we take off.Because in Curacao, the, the
runway is pretty much on theNorth Coast. So as soon as you
turn left bank, out, you're outover the water, you know, and as
you remember, the higher analtitude you get, the better you
can see the primary swell or thesecondary swell, which is
(31:38):
predominantly coming from eastto west because our trade winds
here in The Caribbean move fromeast to west.
But it does change. And forsure, we wanna know what is our
best, ditch heading and wherewould a survivor in the water be
drifting? Where would a boatwithout an engine be drifting?
Exactly.
Bryan (31:56):
Yeah. Now on the Aurora, we were always thinking about
our prudent limit of enduranceor PLE, basically how long we
can stick around before we gohome. How important is fuel
management during these missionsand who's keeping track of it?
Trevor (32:11):
So fuel management is done, by the pilots, but I mean,
GoodTacos, also have an ideawhen they make their flight
plans and push them to us in thefront of how long roughly that
flight plan will go for. Yeah.Memory time patrol flying by its
nature is is usually far awayfrom anything. And pilots are
(32:35):
constantly watching fuel,adjusting fuel mirror
calculations, you know,determining if we can save fuel
at different altitudes dependingthe type of mission we're doing.
If we're orbiting a target, forexample, then we can drop a
little bit of flap.
We can burn bring those burnrates right back. This Dash
eight one hundred is an amazingaircraft for for sipping gas
(32:58):
when you need it to. So, yeah,it's pilots doing it majority of
the time Okay. In support withthe crew.
Bryan (33:06):
Yeah. And basically, like, the taco would have an
awareness of how much playtimeis left.
Trevor (33:14):
Exactly. And a lot of times, depending where we are in
the Caribbean area ofoperations, maybe your refuel
location is not your home base.
Bryan (33:22):
Okay.
Trevor (33:23):
Maybe, maybe it makes more sense to, to go and land
somewhere else and get gas andthen go back out or to return or
to launch our Ready one aircraftbecause we've something that's
really cool that I hadn't donesince the military with the
Aurora was, was hot handovers,you know, and, passing off, say
(33:45):
a search and rescue contactbecause you're out of gas, but
you've got relief from yoursecond aircraft And he can come
in, he can he can give a hothand over to him. Yeah.
Bryan (33:55):
Yeah. Like if you're in a SARS situation and the ship
that's coming to aid is gonnatake a while to get there, that
kind of thing.
Trevor (34:03):
Exactly.
Bryan (34:04):
Yep. What kind of special challenges do you run into with
weather in The Caribbean?
Trevor (34:11):
So the majority of the time, the the weather is quite
nice. You get spoiled somewhat,you know, not having to worry
about icing and going to deicein the Deice Bay, things like
that. But we do get, the rainyseason, that comes through, and
we do get thunderstorms that candevelop quite quickly down here,
(34:32):
as you can imagine, with thedaytime heating and the, you
know, huge amount of moisture inthe area. One interesting, thing
that is really handy for ourlocation here is that we're
south of the hurricane normaltracks. So when you see the
hurricane start to form over theAtlantic and they start that
(34:54):
that spin clockwise spin, theyusually will swing up into, you
know, the East Coast Of The USand Canada and any of those
Caribbean islands, which is whyour location down here is is
important because we can sithere and be ready to help, in a
disaster relief.
But let me tell you, it startsto get pretty hot in, Patil.
(35:17):
Patil agreed to this, August,you know, September time frame
when those hurricanes start toform, they rob the trade winds
from down here. And, I knowpeople are gonna roll their eyes
when I say it gets too hot. Whenyou're pushing into the the high
thirties wearing full gear andflying, flying the aircraft, it
it gets warm down here for sure.
Bryan (35:39):
Oh, yeah. I, it's no fun. It's no fun when the humidity is
high and the heat's high andyou're in a full on flight suit
trying to do your job,especially when you're doing
ground checks and stuff. It itgets hot for sure. Yeah.
So how much coordination ishappening between the pilots in
the front and the folksoperating the mission in the
back? Are the pilots veryinvolved in the mission,
(36:01):
tactically speaking?
Trevor (36:03):
Yeah, very much so actually. We have a lot of
experienced, guys down here inCuracao and working in a format
team to ensure mission success.It just it only makes sense that
you're all working together. Andbecause we're not all military
background, the input from allthe members is essential because
sometimes you'll get good ideasfrom guys that don't have
(36:26):
military background that otherpeople hadn't thought about. And
so, yeah, very much so, thewhole crew is is working as a
team to to satisfy the mission,whatever that may be.
Pat (36:37):
Yeah. We we we've got high levels of experience positions
from the captains to the first,even the first officers when
they come here from differentbackgrounds. All our sensor
operators have been doing thisfor many years themselves, like
over a decade for most of them.
Trevor (36:55):
So
Pat (36:55):
there's nobody that has a monopoly on good ideas, which is
absolutely great. And that's howwe get through the missions.
Everybody has so muchbackground, to to complement
each other, that, thesecoordination amongst the crew
(37:16):
happens almost naturally becausewe've all been through it in in
one capacity or another.
Bryan (37:22):
That's awesome.
Trevor (37:24):
Yeah. And the kit on board, of course, makes it
easier too, right? Like we wehave the ability similar to the
Aurora, to relay the, what theradar picture is to the cockpit,
what he's seeing on the MX, whatthe taco wants us to see. It's
the fusion of the sensorsbetween the front and the back
(37:46):
is excellent. So it increasesyour situational awareness.
Bryan (37:51):
Which is huge.
Trevor (37:52):
Yeah.
Bryan (37:54):
So Trevor, Powell has a 99.8% reliability record. What
does that mean exactly? And whatdo you credit that record to?
Trevor (38:03):
So when I left when I left the air force, I saw those
numbers and I was like, wow,that's those are those are crazy
numbers. So dispatchreliability, mission
reliability. So dispatchreliability means that 99.8% of
the time, the the mission was ittook off on time.
Bryan (38:24):
That's crazy.
Trevor (38:26):
Yeah. This is mind blowing. Right? And in 99.8% of
the time, mission reliability,you satisfied your mission for
the length that you're scheduledto do and you landed on time,
which which is, which isimpressive in itself. Yeah.
And I mean, I've I found that tobe such a big difference coming
from the military. And I spokebefore about, you know,
(38:47):
ultimately being a businesscompany. Hal's very, very
motivated to deliver a service,to the clients. And so we have
set mission timings where wehave set points throughout the
pre brief, where we need to behere at this point. We need to
be briefing at this point.
Our goal is to be in theaircraft, you know, checklist
(39:10):
complete, starting engines atthis point and, and doing it
safely yet efficiently, which issomewhat of a I'm not saying the
military is not efficient, butthey're also not
Bryan (39:22):
But that's not a primary goal necessarily.
Trevor (39:24):
It's not a primary goal, exactly.
Bryan (39:28):
Safe and effective is our goal.
Trevor (39:29):
Safe and effective, exactly. But if you can be safe
and effective, both at the sametime, then you can move towards
these numbers that Pal's beenable to achieve. It's also a
testament to our our mission andmaintenance support, you know,
like, some of these dash eightmaintenance personnel down here
I've met in Curacao are the bestI've ever seen anywhere, like,
(39:51):
both military and civilian.Like, they have relationships
with the aircraft. Right?
They they know them like oldfriends. So they, our our chief
engineer down here, he he talksto the planes. I'm sure he does.
He's he's a good he's a goodfriend of ours, but they they're
very, very good. So, I mean,that obviously helps in keeping
those type of numbers when youhave good support behind you.
(40:13):
Right?
Bryan (40:14):
Yeah. For both of you, as we come to a close on this
discussion, what is somethingthat everyone should know about
the work PAL is doing down inThe Caribbean?
Trevor (40:24):
You wanna go first, Pat?
Pat (40:25):
Yeah. Okay. For me, it's like everyone should know is
that it's incredibly dynamic,and it absolutely makes a
difference. Trevor alluded tothe number of rescues that we
put on the board at the entranceto the station. And the success
of every single mission issomething that we all sort of
(40:48):
internalise personally.
And the dynamic nature of it andhow rewarding these missions are
is something that I don't thinka lot of people realize that we
do every day down here.
Trevor (41:05):
Yeah. And it's it's great, Brian, that you're
bringing a little bit ofexposure to us down here. Just
like Pat said, what we're doing,and I think this is what
everybody wants to do whenthey're when they're doing
missions is to make adifference. Right?
Bryan (41:20):
Yeah.
Trevor (41:21):
And the coast guard motto down here actually that we
have on the side of our aircraftis Samen Stirk, which translates
to together strong. So I find itreally rewarding, you know, to
be working hand in hand with theDutch Caribbean coast guard,
bringing the latest tech toensure we basically effectively
(41:42):
employ air power where and whenthey need it. And then, you
know, we're doing it together asa team and we're making a
difference.
Bryan (41:50):
Yeah. That's great. So we're getting down to our
closing questions that we alwaysask. Can you each share
something you do that you wouldsay is essential to be ready to
do your job?
Trevor (42:03):
Go ahead, Pat.
Pat (42:04):
The answer to that is it's a mindset thing. So when I show
up for work is just you can'thave the blinders on. Today the
mission is this. You just haveto go in with the mindset that
anything can and will happenduring your flight and just be
prepared. The the old cliche,you know, expect the unexpected.
(42:28):
If you go with that mindset onevery flight, you're you're
prepared for what we do downhere.
Bryan (42:34):
It's so interesting that you say that, Pat, because I had
an almost identical answer fromthe SAR cruise in Comox. And you
guys are primarily in SAR, soit's very, very interesting that
you say that.
Pat (42:46):
I've been on missions where we've done the full gambit of
everything that we do in thespan of an eight hour flight.
We've gone from a regular patrolto rescue, to a go fast and then
back again. You just go in withthe mindset that I'm flying for
eight hours today, I don't knowwhat I'll be doing. And that way
(43:07):
you're a 100% prepared forwhat's coming your way.
Bryan (43:10):
Right on. How about you Trevor?
Trevor (43:14):
I'd say, one thing I do before I go flying is I kinda, I
guess I'm more glass half empty.I run a mental checklist of
things that can go wrong. Ispecifically look at what I call
the centers of gravity andemission, you know, so things
like an engine start, thingslike taxiing on a congested
ramp, takeoff. Like what's theworst thing that could happen?
(43:37):
You starting an engine, youcould say engine fire, or what's
the worst emergency I could haveon a takeoff today based on the
weather conditions.
So I'll run that emergencythrough my mind. I'll assure I'm
comfortable with my initialactions. And then if anything
does happen, then you kind ofhave a framework for how you'll
(43:57):
handle it already.
Bryan (43:59):
Yeah. So basically just kinda covering your worst case
contingencies. Yes. Exactly.Yeah.
Trevor (44:05):
And I've I've found it's served me well.
Bryan (44:07):
Yeah. That's fair. Trevor, what would you say makes
a great long range patrol pilot?
Trevor (44:14):
Yeah. So long range patrol pilots and crew are
definitely a little different.Right? Spending long hours over
the water with little to nodiverts that are at least close
to you. And knowing, knowing ifa serious emergency happens,
then you and your crew are theones that'll handle it alone
with, with no help from outsideagencies.
(44:36):
And, and it could very well meanthat, you'll have to dish that
aircraft in the ocean. I had agood a good friend of mine, he's
retired at Comox now. He was myvery first crew commander when I
got to 04/2007, one of thelegends of the mag world. I'm
sure you know him, Brian, JoeSussex. Joe Joe's a great guy.
Joe told me once, if you get anemergency, enjoy it. Enjoy your
(45:01):
emergency. You don't get themall the time, so so take your
time, think, and then act. And,I think that's advice that's
great to remember for any of ourlong range patrol pilots out
there. And really it's it'sadvice that any of our air crew
could think of.
Enjoy your emergency, take yourtime, think and then act.
Bryan (45:22):
Right on.
Trevor (45:23):
The quality or what makes great long range patrol
pilot, I think is someone thatcan think, think on their feet
and solve problems in dynamicsituations.
Bryan (45:33):
Yeah, I would agree with that.
Trevor (45:35):
Similar to what Pat has said is that, you know, you can,
you can take off and yourmission can change. Your mission
can change several times. I'vehad, I've had flights where I've
had the mission changed threetimes on me from, from something
like an anti narcotics thatswitched to a search and rescue,
and then switched back to a,another patrol. So it's it's
(45:59):
thinking on your feet and thenbeing able to think of those
dynamic situations I think makesa good long range patrol pilot
for sure.
Bryan (46:05):
Yeah. Pat, what makes an excellent mission commander
either in your current settingor within the RCAF?
Pat (46:12):
I think it would be the same for for both the RCAF and
the type of work that I do now.You know, I think back of the
people that were tacticalcoordinators and the people that
were crew commanders back in myAurora days, and they all had
(46:32):
the same similar traits that Isee now that are needed in this
job. And we've alluded toearlier, it's just that ability
to think on your feet andconstantly reevaluate what
you're doing and war game inyour own head. What if this
(46:53):
happens and what if thathappens? And also just not be
afraid to not know what to doand reach out to your crew.
Nobody gets through this alone.And the people that do well are
the people that are engaged withthe experienced crew members
(47:16):
that you have and come up with aplan as a team. It doesn't
happen without a team. So it'sjust that ability to admit to
yourself that you need otherpeople and think on your feet is
absolutely the number one skillsomebody in this job needs to
have.
Bryan (47:35):
Yeah. I totally agree that the team relying on your
team and using that as aresource is is massive. Like I
always used to say that my jobwhen I was a I I didn't get a
ton of experience as a crewcommander, but I did upgrade to
crew commander. And I alwaysused to my philosophy was that
my job was not to knoweverything. My job was to get
all the information I neededfrom all my experts and then
(47:58):
make a decision.
Pat (47:59):
Yeah, exactly. You don't have to know everything, you got
to know the people that know thestuff you don't.
Bryan (48:04):
That's right, yeah. Yeah. If each of you could give a
newbie in your trade a piece ofadvice, what would it be?
Trevor (48:13):
Yeah. I would say I would say study study hard.
Learn your aircraft. Understandhow she works and why she won't
sometimes. Because when thingsgo wrong, which they will, take
a breath, think and act.
(48:33):
Enjoy your emergency.
Bryan (48:37):
How about you, Pat?
Pat (48:38):
Well, what I would say to a new guy coming the trade is
treat every opportunity thatcomes your way as something that
will benefit you in your careerlater on, whether you know it or
not. So don't be in a rush tosay, no, I don't want to do
that. Just somebody says you'regoing go on this course or
you're going to go on thisdeployment or this exercise.
(49:01):
Just start at yes. And becauseyou never know how that will
benefit you five years down theroad, ten years down the road or
twenty years down the road whenyou find yourself in a different
role or in a different jobsomewhere else, is treat
everything as an opportunity andjust do it.
(49:24):
That's how you're gonna bebetter at your job and open up
even more doors for you down theroad.
Bryan (49:32):
Yeah, that's a great piece of advice for sure. Okay,
guys, that is going to wrap upour chat on your work with PAL
and the Dutch Coast Guard doingSAR and counter drug work in The
Caribbean. I wanna thank you forthe important work you guys are
doing and thank you so much fortaking the time to make this
show happen. Thank you guys.
Pat (49:51):
Thanks for having me, Brian. This has been a lot of
fun.
Trevor (49:55):
And thanks Brian. Very much appreciate the exposure
you're getting to the aviationcommunity and industry. This is
a great podcast. I'll keeplistening.
Bryan (50:04):
Thanks. Oh, and fly safe, guys.
Pat (50:06):
Always. Always.
Bryan (50:08):
Alright. That wraps up our chat with Trevor and Pat
about search and rescue andcounter drug operations in The
Caribbean with the DutchCaribbean Coast Guard and PAL
Aerospace. For our next episode,we'll be sitting down with a
Sartech and an aircraftcommander from a Tsar Hercules
who took part in a dramaticrescue of an Air Tindi flight in
the Northwest Territories. Youdon't wanna miss this one. Do
(50:30):
you have any questions orcomments about anything you've
heard in this show?
Would you or someone you knowmake a great guest, or do you
have a great idea for a show?You can reach out to us at the
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pilot project. And be sure tocheck out that social media for
lots of great videos of our RCAFand mission aviation aircraft.
As always, we'd like to thankyou for tuning in and ask for
(50:53):
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That's all for now. Thanks forlistening. Keep the blue side
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This podcast is presented by Skies Magazine. If
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Bryan (00:58):
Alright. We're ready for departure here at the pilot
project podcast, the best sourcefor stories and advice from RCAF
and mission aviation pilotsbrought to you by Sky's
Magazine. I'm your host, BrianMorrison. With me today is
Trevor Juby, a retired RCAFlieutenant colonel and current
base chief pilot with PowellAerospace in Curacao, and Pat
Lalonde, a retired RCAF masterwarrant officer and current
(01:20):
tactical coordinator and missioncommander with Powell Aerospace
in Curacao. Guys, welcome backto the show.
I've been looking forward tothis.
Trevor (01:27):
Thanks, Brian.
Pat (01:29):
Thanks, Brian. Happy to be here.
Bryan (01:31):
Listeners can check out part one for some stories about
the early days of Pat and Trevorin the RCAF and the CAF in
general. They can check out parttwo to hear about their
operational experiences and whatled them to PAL as well as some
of the general descriptions ofthe mission with PAL and
Curacao. Now for today, in partthree, we'll be diving deep into
what their mission is, what itconsists of, and how they
(01:53):
prosecute it. So let's talk abit about you've mentioned that
your primary role is SAR. Let'stalk about SAR in The Caribbean.
So as in any maritime setting,SAR calls happen. Trevor, you've
mentioned that SAR is actuallyofficially your primary mandate.
Can you tell us a little bitabout, how that works on the
Dash eight?
Trevor (02:12):
Yeah. For sure, Brian. So we have two Dash eights down
here, and then our sistercompany, Bristow, has two rotary
wing assets. And we have onecrew that is always on call,
ready one as we call it, readyto respond to an operation, and
(02:33):
with SAR being obviously theprimary. So the the SAR rescue
chain goes something like this.
You know? So we get alerted thatthere is a missing fishing boat,
for example. The dash will belaunched for the SAR. We'll head
to the last known locationthrough coordination with, the
(02:54):
taco in the back, like Pat.He'll be talking back and forth
with the rescue coordinationcenter about, you know, what's
the what's the size of the boat?
What does it look like? Wherewas it last seen? Last port of
call, next port of call. Allthose standard things you'd
expect with maritime SAR. Andthen we start trying to build a
picture as we are arriving onscene.
(03:15):
So we're using non visualsensors to try and pick this
target up either by radar orother sensors. And let's say we
have a successful SARS, welocate the target. We'll get on
scene. We'll get visual withthem with our camera systems,
probably descend low level toassess if they need assistance.
(03:39):
The dash sheets down here havean ability to drop their search
and rescue rafts that willinflate.
We have smoke markers that canbe dropped. We have drift
markers as well as satellitedrift markers that can be
dropped. So we are able to get,you know, long distances fast to
(04:00):
a to a scene, establish on scenecommander, establish what the
need is. And then if there is nosurface vessels in the general
vicinity, we will call thehelicopter who will then come in
as lowboy. We will climb tounseen commander at a higher
altitude.
They'll wedge their, survivorson board, and then we'll fly
(04:24):
back. And, usually, as you'veheard the term duck butting,
which basically escorting thehelo back to base to successful
end of a SAR, where theambulances or further rescue
coordination people will arriveat the Haddock Air Base. We
actually have a, we have areally cool wooden, board
(04:44):
outside of the base. And I'llget I'll get a picture for you
so you can put I know that youkinda do some social media
stuff. But every year, we keeptrack of the lives that are
saved either through us orthrough Bristow and and their
their crews.
And every year, it's in the 30to 40 range of people that are
(05:07):
saved.
Bryan (05:07):
Wow.
Trevor (05:08):
So we are very busy. Wow.
Bryan (05:13):
You mentioned that you bring in the helicopter if
there's not another surfacevessel in the area. What do you
think is more common to have tocall in a helicopter or is it is
it are you often able to workwith another surface vessel to
affect a rescue?
Trevor (05:26):
Yeah. I mean, Pat, feel free to chime in. But I mean, a
lot of times, you'll see thelarger tankers, moving, you
know, east to west, west toeast. And, you know, if we call
them while the sea is is thatthey shall respond to a search
and rescue and help us. Andwe'll try to use vessels like
(05:46):
that, especially if it's outsideof the range of the helicopter.
But a lot of times, if,especially, for example, a
drifting fishing boat where theymay have been drifting for a
certain amount of time, we needspecialists to to winch down and
get them on board immediately sothey could be treated.
Bryan (06:07):
Oh, yeah.
Trevor (06:08):
And we have some amazing rescue swimmers, winchmen and
winch operators that work atBristow. You know, some of them
coming from British, very veryclose to our Sartex that we have
in Canada.
Bryan (06:20):
Oh, Are there any do you know if there's any ex Sartax
there or
Trevor (06:25):
We don't have any Canadian Sartax down here only
because I think that they wehaven't recruited them yet. But
now that they hear this show,they might be giving us a call.
Pat (06:35):
Yeah. Probably just did some recruiting for Bristol
there.
Bryan (06:38):
There you go.
Pat (06:40):
No, there is a large amount of commercial, vessel traffic
throughout The Caribbean. So ina lot of cases, it's only
drifting a or disabled sailingvessel or fishing vessel or any
of those things. It's alwayswhen it's pretty far as where's
my nearest, I can see it in theback of the airplane on AIS or
(07:05):
using our radar. And it's neverbeen an issue. It's a call them
up on the radio on the emergencyfrequencies, tell them what I
need.
And I've never had an issue toMariners know what it's like.
And they know that maybesometimes it could be them.
Their reaction is always, wheredo I need to go? What's the
(07:27):
situation? And they ask what weneed from them.
And they're usually getting tothe scene as best that they can.
It's always up to the on scenecommander to sort out, but I've
never had an issue askingcommercial vessels to come in
and render assistance.
Bryan (07:46):
I feel like that's very similar to aviators in that we
all know, like if there's a,let's say an ELT going off,
which for the listeners isemergency locator transmitter,
You know, we all we all knowlike, hey, that that could be us
one day who needs help. And andso you'll find that aircraft are
quite eager to help locate or toto contribute in any way they
(08:10):
can when when that kind ofsituation arises. So I imagine
it's very, very similar when itcomes to mariners.
Trevor (08:16):
Yeah. You totally agree.
Pat (08:18):
Yeah. It's the exact same thing.
Bryan (08:20):
Trevor, can you share a memorable SAR mission with us?
Trevor (08:24):
Yeah, definitely. So this one this one is one that
I'll remember for my lifetime.So coming back from the S S S,
remember that's the SaintMartin's Seychaseva patrol to
the north. That's takes ususually about two hours, two and
a half hours to get to SaintMartin. We'll do a patrol up
(08:46):
there, and then we'll come back.
The mission profile was that wewere going to swing south of the
islands for a final sweep withthe radar and then come in for
land. So we've got very littlegas left, and, we pick up a
contact behind us, probablyabout 15 miles or so behind us,
(09:11):
that we had descended over topand no one had seen, but the
radar saw it as it could lookbehind. So had a very
experienced taco on board who'ssince retired, but he was he was
mister Sar. And he, and myselfagreed, let's turn around and
have a look, see what that is.And so we came in on this
(09:33):
position.
I had to send it down to aboutfive hundred feet, and, we come
upon a sand a fishing vessel,and there's six guys standing on
top of this vessel waving theirhands, waving flags. They are
they are desperate, to get ourattention.
Bryan (09:51):
Oh, wow.
Trevor (09:52):
So we fly by and, and then of course quickly calculate
how much gas we can stay for.And we've got about fifteen,
twenty minutes that we can staythere for. So came in a couple
of more low passes to make surethat they saw us. We dropped
smoke markers to mark theirposition. And then it just
happened that, our navy ship,the West India guard ship was in
(10:15):
the area.
So they we vectored them over,and, they towed them to the
closest island, which wasBonaire. And what's funny is
that by fluke, we had adeployment to Bonaire the next
day, and I was going there withthe taco that I was flying this
mission on. So we had a chanceto go down to the to the dock
(10:36):
where they had moored thisfishing boat with these six guys
and meet these guys. Obviously,they all spoke, Spanish. You
know, it was a Venezuelanfishing bark, and they'd been
drifting for fourteen days.
Bryan (10:48):
Oh my gosh.
Trevor (10:49):
And they had they had given up. So they were they were
very happy to shake our handsand the captain said, you saved
their life.
Bryan (10:58):
Wow. That must have been quite a feeling.
Trevor (11:01):
Yeah. It was a great feeling. It's good. Good news
story.
Bryan (11:04):
Yeah.
Trevor (11:04):
Those are the type of stories, you know, that you that
stick with you. And I thinkeveryone here, on our operation
down here has a story like thator probably has more stories
than they could tell. And it'sit's amazing to see when you
have a SAAR spin off happening,guys are guys are ready to go.
It's mission first.
Bryan (11:25):
Yeah. Having just I was telling you guys this offline,
but just yesterday, I got homefrom doing a interview in Comox
with four forty two Squadron,search and rescue squadron. And
the star world is amazing. Likeeverybody is so mission focused
and ready to go all the time.And it's just like such a
(11:48):
mission you can get behind andbelieve in.
So I imagine that's quiterewarding.
Trevor (11:52):
Yeah, totally.
Bryan (11:56):
So Pat, same question. I understand you have a story
involving a sailor fromMontreal.
Pat (12:01):
Yeah, that's a good one for a couple of reasons because one,
it really highlights the factthat you plan your missions with
what you know and theneverything can change the moment
the wheels are off the runway.At any moment, you'll be doing
another mission that wasn't partof your day. And it's also
(12:24):
happened fairly recently, so itreally sticks out in my mind. So
we were tasked to the S S S areafor a patrol up there. So we
took off, started to climb, wehad decided to go high level
that day.
And at about 14,000 feet on VHFchannel 16, the emergency
(12:44):
channel, I suddenly hear Mayday,Mayday, Mayday. And then the guy
says the name of his vessel andstops there. No further
transmissions, no position,nothing. Just Mayday and the
name of his boat. And soimmediately switched to SAR
(13:08):
mode, the patrol in the S S S isover.
We've got a Mayday call torespond to, but I have no idea
where this guy is And I'm at14,000 feet. So my radio
reception range, the area ofprobability is massive. And so I
call on the radio, I call on theradio for this guy and no
(13:30):
response, no response, noresponse. Well we got to find
it. This is the search part ofsearch and rescue.
So we talked to the crew, weinvestigated a couple of
possibilities that didn't turnout to be him. So what do we do?
Worked it out as a crew, came upwith, well let's go based on
(13:51):
what we know and we'll go searchover here and if not we'll go to
over here sort of a plan withthe absolute limited information
that we had. So it was astandard patrol that instantly
became a completely differenttasking. We were lucky that some
(14:13):
of the assumptions that we madeturned out to be true and we
found this catamaran thatmatched the name, within thirty
minutes of starting.
Found him, yep, that's the guy.Buzzed him at low altitude to
get his attention and he came upon the radio and I said, hey,
(14:35):
this is Dutch Guru and CoastGuard patrol aircraft. My name
is Patrick. What's going on onyour boat? And he's telling me,
you know, he's taken on water.
He doesn't have propulsion. Theseas are rough. So set up. Okay,
are you hurt? You know, assessthe situation.
Called a cargo ship that was thenearest one was still a few
(15:00):
hours away. They said, okay,we'll head that way. They're on
their way. I contacted therescue coordination center to
try to get a plan going,apprised them of the location,
the situation and talked to thegentleman on the boat who was by
himself. He was ascertained thathe's a guy from Montreal, French
(15:23):
speaker, so I started, he wasexcitable.
I started talking to him Frenchbecause that's my first language
in French and then I coordinateda plan. We've got a cargo ship
coming. I talked to the rescuecoordination center. We figured
out that it was in range of thehelicopter. So I talked to him,
said, what do you wanna do?
(15:43):
We can if the helicopter comesout, you'll have to abandon your
vessel. And he's like, yes. Iwant off of the boat. So we kept
an eye on, kept an eye on him tomake sure because he said he was
taken on water. So we wanna beready for anything.
As Trevor said, you know, candrop life rafts. So if this
(16:04):
catamaran starts really sinking,this may turn into a raft drop
situation. So get the crewready, talk about review the
procedures and stand ready forthat. The helicopter came out.
We had good communications withthe helicopter.
They knew exactly where to go.And it's one of those textbooks.
(16:25):
Then I called the guy on theradio again and I explained to
him, this is what the helicopteris going to going to do when it
arrives. Somebody's going towinch down to you. Do the
following things and get readyfor them and make sure that he
understood what that process wasgoing to be.
And it went flawlessly. Thehelicopter showed up. They said
(16:49):
they asked me what the situationwas. I briefed them, told them
that I briefed the guy on theboat about how it's gonna go.
And then we made sure that westayed ready while the winching
happened and we watched this guyget winched off and then
escorted the helicopter all theway back to Curacao.
(17:14):
It's one of my most recentrescue events, but it really
sticks out in my mind because assoon as we took off, our entire
mission changed. And that's whatI love about flying here, that
you plan a mission,
Bryan (17:26):
you
Pat (17:26):
brief a mission, you take off and you go into something
completely different.
Bryan (17:31):
Yeah. Which is very similar to the Aurora world. I'd
like, you I mean, not not asmuch, like, because it's we
weren't primary SAR as you guysare down there, But it's kind of
one of those things where youjust never know what you're
gonna get in an eight hourpatrol.
Pat (17:45):
Yeah. And it it's always like that. Every single flight
will bring something will bringsomething new. Some days you're
flying just north of the islandand you get retasked and you
have to go all the way byTrinidad. Some days you go
north, you're working nearDominican Republic or you're a
standard patrol.
(18:06):
It's the standard six hours,you're completely bored out of
your mind and all of a sudden acall comes and it's absolute
chaos, and you have to worryabout helicopters, warships, and
you start making a plan becauseyou're you're gonna be out of
fuel. You need another crew toto come out. It's the the
dynamic nature is is what keepsme at it.
Bryan (18:28):
Awesome. Let's get into some of the counter drug
operations. Pat, as the tacticalcoordinator and mission
commander, what is PAL and theDutch Coast Guard's overall
mission during counter drugoperations?
Pat (18:41):
For us, it's mostly detection and tracking and then
helping to coordinate what wecall the end game. So the
interceptions, that's the longand short of it.
Bryan (18:58):
Okay. How does it feel to go from being a sensor operator
to conducting the mission as thecommander?
Pat (19:05):
For me it was sort of the next logical career progression.
I had been a brand new sensoroperator, sensor operator
supervisor, readiness andstandards evaluator and deputy
flight commander. So it was sortof the next flying career
leadership, career progression.If I had stayed in the Air
(19:31):
Force, I think that would havebeen the next logical step. So
that's essentially what I did,but as a civilian as opposed to
a service member.
Bryan (19:40):
Okay. How do you feel your previous experience helps
you to do this well?
Pat (19:45):
Well, everything I did in the Aurora led to to this moment
because it's very much a creweffort. Here we have a crew of
four. In the Aurora, had a crewof 10 or more. So I was already
used to working and leveraging afair number of crew members even
(20:06):
when I was a lead sensoroperator on the Aurora. So
everything that I did and allthose hours, I had four thousand
five hundred hours on the Aurorabefore I stopped flying.
I made it possible to do thisjob here and do it fairly well.
Bryan (20:24):
Yeah. That's a lot of hours, by the way. Congrats on
that. Thanks. Trevor, you arethe base chief pilot for
Curacao.
How do you feel your previousRCAF experience has helped
prepare you for this role?
Trevor (20:37):
Well, to be honest, when I when I left the RCAF and came
down here, I felt like I'd leftone military for another. And I
was just on an outcan exchange.Many of our SOPs are actually
based on the Aurora, includingthe SAR drop pattern
Bryan (20:51):
Okay.
Trevor (20:52):
Which made my transition down here pretty easy. It's
funny when we when I was beingdemoed the the drop pattern for
our survival rafts, I quicklyrealized I'm like, this is this
is the SCAD pattern. Somebodysomebody stole this from the
Aurora guys, didn't they? Andthat, you know, it made my
(21:14):
transition happen quite quickly.And then, of course, working
with different countries, flyingwith NATO.
I mean, we lived in, Germanyright on the border with The
Netherlands. We were in Hollandall the time. I understood the
culture. I understood the theoperation. And and it was, you
know, coming from the Aurora,coming from the, from the AWACS
(21:36):
operational into an operationalunit, it it just seemed like the
an easy transition.
And we are fully operationaldown here, which makes things
exciting and interesting as Pathas mentioned.
Bryan (21:49):
So what would you say is similar and what's different
from those experiences?
Trevor (21:52):
Yeah. While there's many similarities actually between
the flying for this operationdown here and my time in the
military. Our operationultimately here is a business,
right?
Bryan (22:02):
Right.
Trevor (22:03):
So ensuring we're providing a service to the
client while moving forward, youknow, with an operational
mindset. It reminds me of when Iwas flying MPATs and Comox at
407. And one of the patrols weused to do was called the inner
patrol. Pat will remember these,you know, was the shipping and
fishing areas in and aroundVancouver Island. And when you
(22:26):
were tasked with an innerpatrol, you knew that there was
literally hundreds of contactsthat you're going to be tasked
to identify.
And this was before we had theMX 20. So you had, you know,
sensor operator sitting over thefirst officer's shoulder, taking
pictures, and we take picturesof every single contact to
identify them. And then PowellAerospace, was flying their King
(22:48):
Airs out there. They started tobe tasked with the inner patrol
area, and we'd be sent to theouter patrol area where the
Aurora really would show off itsdistance. Right?
But I remember Powell had an AISreceiver onboard their aircraft,
and they could complete thisinner patrol area with a King
Air in a fraction of the time itcost compared to the Aurora.
Bryan (23:09):
Yeah. I just wanna explain to the audience that an
AIS is essentially like atransponder for ships.
Trevor (23:15):
So I remember thinking, even back then that this company
is working smarter, you know,and not harder. Yeah. And now we
are down here, flash forward nowto we got these two highly
modified dash eights withcutting edge ISR capability,
with agility and flexibilitythat is not possible for the
changes that we can do in theRCAF. So it's it's interesting
(23:38):
to see the differences, but theparallels are there.
Bryan (23:41):
Yeah. How would you say your role as a pilot on the Dash
eight compares to your role as acrew commander on the Aurora?
Trevor (23:48):
It's actually very similar. I'd say it aligns more
with the maritime patrolcaptain, and the tackle fills
the role of the the MPCC, thecrew commander. But our aircraft
captains here are very muchlike, aircraft captains in the
military, where they're, they'rewe're self dispatching. They do
all their own flight planning,weather no TAMs. And then
(24:10):
they're they're fully into thetactical picture, eating the
taco, to employ the aircraftwhile ensuring the crew is is
safe.
You know? We we trust theaircraft captains very much
where we can deploy them prettymuch anywhere in The Caribbean,
North America, and know thatthey'll adapt to the changing
conditions. And that's that'ssomething that we trust all of
(24:31):
our aircraft captains in themilitary to do, and I think
it's, it's really cool that wecan do that.
Bryan (24:36):
Yeah. Can you briefly describe Joint Interagency Task
Force South or Jayad of South tous please?
Trevor (24:45):
Yeah, for sure. I'll keep this as unclass. Yeah. So
JAVS South as we, everyone callsit a joint inter agency task
force. It's located in, KeyWest, Florida, Naval Air Station
Key West.
And their job is to detect andmonitor D and M operations
(25:07):
throughout the joint operatingarea down here. So through this
joint operating area, and theyfacilitate interdiction of of
counter drug. It's both insupport of their national
security as well as partnernational security. And countries
that are included, Argentina,Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia,
(25:33):
Costa Rica, the DOMREC orDominican Republic, Ecuador, El
Salvador, France, Guatemala,Honduras, Jamaica, Mexico, The
Netherlands, Panama, Peru,Spain, Trinidad, Tobago, and
United Kingdom.
Bryan (25:48):
Wow.
Trevor (25:50):
So that's a that level of, effort needs a coordination
cell that is as robust and aslarge as the people involved.
Bryan (26:01):
Shows you the importance of the mission that that many
countries are taking part andcooperating together.
Trevor (26:06):
Exactly.
Bryan (26:07):
Yeah. Pat, can you give us a brief overview of the role
of PAL within JF South?
Pat (26:14):
Yeah. Sure. So for us, it's, it's about what the, the
client requires. From a PALperspective, the client sets the
mission. If they say today,you're tasked to support Jide of
South.
A company and as companyemployees, that's what we do.
(26:35):
Me, as a mission commander, itjust changes who I talk to on
the other end of the radio.Frequently we'll be previously
planned tasking to Jahad ofself, but sometimes they're re
tasking. We just get that fromthe client and we respond
accordingly.
Bryan (26:58):
Pat, can you tell us how a PAL Dash eight is crewed for
these missions?
Pat (27:01):
Yeah. So we are operating on a crew of four. So two
pilots, a sensor operator and atactical coordinator, a mission
commander. In the past we usedto run crews of up to six, with
visual observers, but thatstopped well before I came here.
So right now it's three on mostflights, three of the crew are
(27:28):
PAL employees, the pilots andthe sensor operators.
And other than myself, thetactical coordinator mission
commanders are actually, fromthe clients, which are all, from
the Royal Netherlands Navy.
Bryan (27:43):
Okay. Trevor, Giant of South manages to seize about 10%
of the annual flow of cocainethrough the area. Is that a
target they aim to meet, and arethey hoping to increase it?
Trevor (27:55):
Yeah. So that's that's a sensitive topic for sure. So
while there's still varioustrafficking routes to Europe
that still exist, transshipmentthrough The Caribbean, including
through the Europeanterritories, here down down here
in this area, is a region ofgrowing concern for sure. And
(28:17):
as, you know, as we know, The UShas been pretty much the de
facto market for cocaine,originated from South America,
from our southern neighbors, youknow, since it became really
popular in the sixties, but adecline in US cocaine
consumption in the past decade,you know, as long as we bring in
these synthetic drugs likefentanyl and etcetera. It's kind
(28:39):
of left an opening in the globalnarcotics market, you know, with
high levels of supply.
So Europe is one of those, moreprofitable new markets. It's
pretty much the best I can saythere, Brian.
Bryan (28:52):
Yeah. No problem. So Pat, recognized maritime picture or
RMP is an essential concept toknowing what is out there on the
ocean and finding vessels. Canyou explain what this is and how
it is used?
Pat (29:05):
Okay. So building the RMP is, of course, job number one
where when we go out in thepatrol, it's all about
identifying who is there, whateverybody is doing and comparing
if it's legitimate activity orif it's not legitimate or
anything that warrantsattention. So that's why we're
(29:29):
out there patrolling andidentifying everything,
comparing the information thatwe get from various sources and
comparing what we get from ouronboard sensors and being able
to deliver to the client, here'swhat's happening, during the
last six hours in the patrolarea that that you selected.
Bryan (29:49):
So it basically provides an overview of the vessel
activity within the area you'vebeen patrolling.
Pat (29:54):
Exactly. That's exactly what we do.
Bryan (29:58):
Trevor, what is important for you as the search area is
approached? What are you doingduring this time?
Trevor (30:05):
Okay. So approaching a search area for a known target
of interests, and this could be,you know, this could be search
and rescue. You're looking for amissing fishing boat. This could
be a missing diver in the water.This could be a a target of
interests that we've beenrelayed by some of our partners.
You change the way you obviouslyapproach the search area, but if
(30:26):
this is something that I don'tknow what it is, and there's
times where we'll get contactsthat we don't know what they
are, initially. So we'll alwaysapproach with covert status with
stealth, and we'll use our longdistance sensors as we've spoken
about how we how we use this,ISR sensor fusion, you know,
(30:47):
when we're conductingsurveillance. So we try to stay
beyond the visual range until weestablish what it is, and then
we can close, gain more detailsas required.
Bryan (30:59):
One thing I remember from, the Aurora is that as we
kind of approach into the searcharea, one of the first things
you do as a pilot is evaluatethe primary swell, the wind
direction, that kind of stuff.Like, are you still doing those
basics when you arrive in thearea?
Trevor (31:15):
Yes. For sure. That's something that I still do still
do to this day when we take off.Because in Curacao, the, the
runway is pretty much on theNorth Coast. So as soon as you
turn left bank, out, you're outover the water, you know, and as
you remember, the higher analtitude you get, the better you
can see the primary swell or thesecondary swell, which is
(31:38):
predominantly coming from eastto west because our trade winds
here in The Caribbean move fromeast to west.
But it does change. And forsure, we wanna know what is our
best, ditch heading and wherewould a survivor in the water be
drifting? Where would a boatwithout an engine be drifting?
Exactly.
Bryan (31:56):
Yeah. Now on the Aurora, we were always thinking about
our prudent limit of enduranceor PLE, basically how long we
can stick around before we gohome. How important is fuel
management during these missionsand who's keeping track of it?
Trevor (32:11):
So fuel management is done, by the pilots, but I mean,
GoodTacos, also have an ideawhen they make their flight
plans and push them to us in thefront of how long roughly that
flight plan will go for. Yeah.Memory time patrol flying by its
nature is is usually far awayfrom anything. And pilots are
(32:35):
constantly watching fuel,adjusting fuel mirror
calculations, you know,determining if we can save fuel
at different altitudes dependingthe type of mission we're doing.
If we're orbiting a target, forexample, then we can drop a
little bit of flap.
We can burn bring those burnrates right back. This Dash
eight one hundred is an amazingaircraft for for sipping gas
(32:58):
when you need it to. So, yeah,it's pilots doing it majority of
the time Okay. In support withthe crew.
Bryan (33:06):
Yeah. And basically, like, the taco would have an
awareness of how much playtimeis left.
Trevor (33:14):
Exactly. And a lot of times, depending where we are in
the Caribbean area ofoperations, maybe your refuel
location is not your home base.
Bryan (33:22):
Okay.
Trevor (33:23):
Maybe, maybe it makes more sense to, to go and land
somewhere else and get gas andthen go back out or to return or
to launch our Ready one aircraftbecause we've something that's
really cool that I hadn't donesince the military with the
Aurora was, was hot handovers,you know, and, passing off, say
(33:45):
a search and rescue contactbecause you're out of gas, but
you've got relief from yoursecond aircraft And he can come
in, he can he can give a hothand over to him. Yeah.
Bryan (33:55):
Yeah. Like if you're in a SARS situation and the ship
that's coming to aid is gonnatake a while to get there, that
kind of thing.
Trevor (34:03):
Exactly.
Bryan (34:04):
Yep. What kind of special challenges do you run into with
weather in The Caribbean?
Trevor (34:11):
So the majority of the time, the the weather is quite
nice. You get spoiled somewhat,you know, not having to worry
about icing and going to deicein the Deice Bay, things like
that. But we do get, the rainyseason, that comes through, and
we do get thunderstorms that candevelop quite quickly down here,
(34:32):
as you can imagine, with thedaytime heating and the, you
know, huge amount of moisture inthe area. One interesting, thing
that is really handy for ourlocation here is that we're
south of the hurricane normaltracks. So when you see the
hurricane start to form over theAtlantic and they start that
(34:54):
that spin clockwise spin, theyusually will swing up into, you
know, the East Coast Of The USand Canada and any of those
Caribbean islands, which is whyour location down here is is
important because we can sithere and be ready to help, in a
disaster relief.
But let me tell you, it startsto get pretty hot in, Patil.
(35:17):
Patil agreed to this, August,you know, September time frame
when those hurricanes start toform, they rob the trade winds
from down here. And, I knowpeople are gonna roll their eyes
when I say it gets too hot. Whenyou're pushing into the the high
thirties wearing full gear andflying, flying the aircraft, it
it gets warm down here for sure.
Bryan (35:39):
Oh, yeah. I, it's no fun. It's no fun when the humidity is
high and the heat's high andyou're in a full on flight suit
trying to do your job,especially when you're doing
ground checks and stuff. It itgets hot for sure. Yeah.
So how much coordination ishappening between the pilots in
the front and the folksoperating the mission in the
back? Are the pilots veryinvolved in the mission,
(36:01):
tactically speaking?
Trevor (36:03):
Yeah, very much so actually. We have a lot of
experienced, guys down here inCuracao and working in a format
team to ensure mission success.It just it only makes sense that
you're all working together. Andbecause we're not all military
background, the input from allthe members is essential because
sometimes you'll get good ideasfrom guys that don't have
(36:26):
military background that otherpeople hadn't thought about. And
so, yeah, very much so, thewhole crew is is working as a
team to to satisfy the mission,whatever that may be.
Pat (36:37):
Yeah. We we we've got high levels of experience positions
from the captains to the first,even the first officers when
they come here from differentbackgrounds. All our sensor
operators have been doing thisfor many years themselves, like
over a decade for most of them.
Trevor (36:55):
So
Pat (36:55):
there's nobody that has a monopoly on good ideas, which is
absolutely great. And that's howwe get through the missions.
Everybody has so muchbackground, to to complement
each other, that, thesecoordination amongst the crew
(37:16):
happens almost naturally becausewe've all been through it in in
one capacity or another.
Bryan (37:22):
That's awesome.
Trevor (37:24):
Yeah. And the kit on board, of course, makes it
easier too, right? Like we wehave the ability similar to the
Aurora, to relay the, what theradar picture is to the cockpit,
what he's seeing on the MX, whatthe taco wants us to see. It's
the fusion of the sensorsbetween the front and the back
(37:46):
is excellent. So it increasesyour situational awareness.
Bryan (37:51):
Which is huge.
Trevor (37:52):
Yeah.
Bryan (37:54):
So Trevor, Powell has a 99.8% reliability record. What
does that mean exactly? And whatdo you credit that record to?
Trevor (38:03):
So when I left when I left the air force, I saw those
numbers and I was like, wow,that's those are those are crazy
numbers. So dispatchreliability, mission
reliability. So dispatchreliability means that 99.8% of
the time, the the mission was ittook off on time.
Bryan (38:24):
That's crazy.
Trevor (38:26):
Yeah. This is mind blowing. Right? And in 99.8% of
the time, mission reliability,you satisfied your mission for
the length that you're scheduledto do and you landed on time,
which which is, which isimpressive in itself. Yeah.
And I mean, I've I found that tobe such a big difference coming
from the military. And I spokebefore about, you know,
(38:47):
ultimately being a businesscompany. Hal's very, very
motivated to deliver a service,to the clients. And so we have
set mission timings where wehave set points throughout the
pre brief, where we need to behere at this point. We need to
be briefing at this point.
Our goal is to be in theaircraft, you know, checklist
(39:10):
complete, starting engines atthis point and, and doing it
safely yet efficiently, which issomewhat of a I'm not saying the
military is not efficient, butthey're also not
Bryan (39:22):
But that's not a primary goal necessarily.
Trevor (39:24):
It's not a primary goal, exactly.
Bryan (39:28):
Safe and effective is our goal.
Trevor (39:29):
Safe and effective, exactly. But if you can be safe
and effective, both at the sametime, then you can move towards
these numbers that Pal's beenable to achieve. It's also a
testament to our our mission andmaintenance support, you know,
like, some of these dash eightmaintenance personnel down here
I've met in Curacao are the bestI've ever seen anywhere, like,
(39:51):
both military and civilian.Like, they have relationships
with the aircraft. Right?
They they know them like oldfriends. So they, our our chief
engineer down here, he he talksto the planes. I'm sure he does.
He's he's a good he's a goodfriend of ours, but they they're
very, very good. So, I mean,that obviously helps in keeping
those type of numbers when youhave good support behind you.
(40:13):
Right?
Bryan (40:14):
Yeah. For both of you, as we come to a close on this
discussion, what is somethingthat everyone should know about
the work PAL is doing down inThe Caribbean?
Trevor (40:24):
You wanna go first, Pat?
Pat (40:25):
Yeah. Okay. For me, it's like everyone should know is
that it's incredibly dynamic,and it absolutely makes a
difference. Trevor alluded tothe number of rescues that we
put on the board at the entranceto the station. And the success
of every single mission issomething that we all sort of
(40:48):
internalise personally.
And the dynamic nature of it andhow rewarding these missions are
is something that I don't thinka lot of people realize that we
do every day down here.
Trevor (41:05):
Yeah. And it's it's great, Brian, that you're
bringing a little bit ofexposure to us down here. Just
like Pat said, what we're doing,and I think this is what
everybody wants to do whenthey're when they're doing
missions is to make adifference. Right?
Bryan (41:20):
Yeah.
Trevor (41:21):
And the coast guard motto down here actually that we
have on the side of our aircraftis Samen Stirk, which translates
to together strong. So I find itreally rewarding, you know, to
be working hand in hand with theDutch Caribbean coast guard,
bringing the latest tech toensure we basically effectively
(41:42):
employ air power where and whenthey need it. And then, you
know, we're doing it together asa team and we're making a
difference.
Bryan (41:50):
Yeah. That's great. So we're getting down to our
closing questions that we alwaysask. Can you each share
something you do that you wouldsay is essential to be ready to
do your job?
Trevor (42:03):
Go ahead, Pat.
Pat (42:04):
The answer to that is it's a mindset thing. So when I show
up for work is just you can'thave the blinders on. Today the
mission is this. You just haveto go in with the mindset that
anything can and will happenduring your flight and just be
prepared. The the old cliche,you know, expect the unexpected.
(42:28):
If you go with that mindset onevery flight, you're you're
prepared for what we do downhere.
Bryan (42:34):
It's so interesting that you say that, Pat, because I had
an almost identical answer fromthe SAR cruise in Comox. And you
guys are primarily in SAR, soit's very, very interesting that
you say that.
Pat (42:46):
I've been on missions where we've done the full gambit of
everything that we do in thespan of an eight hour flight.
We've gone from a regular patrolto rescue, to a go fast and then
back again. You just go in withthe mindset that I'm flying for
eight hours today, I don't knowwhat I'll be doing. And that way
(43:07):
you're a 100% prepared forwhat's coming your way.
Bryan (43:10):
Right on. How about you Trevor?
Trevor (43:14):
I'd say, one thing I do before I go flying is I kinda, I
guess I'm more glass half empty.I run a mental checklist of
things that can go wrong. Ispecifically look at what I call
the centers of gravity andemission, you know, so things
like an engine start, thingslike taxiing on a congested
ramp, takeoff. Like what's theworst thing that could happen?
(43:37):
You starting an engine, youcould say engine fire, or what's
the worst emergency I could haveon a takeoff today based on the
weather conditions.
So I'll run that emergencythrough my mind. I'll assure I'm
comfortable with my initialactions. And then if anything
does happen, then you kind ofhave a framework for how you'll
(43:57):
handle it already.
Bryan (43:59):
Yeah. So basically just kinda covering your worst case
contingencies. Yes. Exactly.Yeah.
Trevor (44:05):
And I've I've found it's served me well.
Bryan (44:07):
Yeah. That's fair. Trevor, what would you say makes
a great long range patrol pilot?
Trevor (44:14):
Yeah. So long range patrol pilots and crew are
definitely a little different.Right? Spending long hours over
the water with little to nodiverts that are at least close
to you. And knowing, knowing ifa serious emergency happens,
then you and your crew are theones that'll handle it alone
with, with no help from outsideagencies.
(44:36):
And, and it could very well meanthat, you'll have to dish that
aircraft in the ocean. I had agood a good friend of mine, he's
retired at Comox now. He was myvery first crew commander when I
got to 04/2007, one of thelegends of the mag world. I'm
sure you know him, Brian, JoeSussex. Joe Joe's a great guy.
Joe told me once, if you get anemergency, enjoy it. Enjoy your
(45:01):
emergency. You don't get themall the time, so so take your
time, think, and then act. And,I think that's advice that's
great to remember for any of ourlong range patrol pilots out
there. And really it's it'sadvice that any of our air crew
could think of.
Enjoy your emergency, take yourtime, think and then act.
Bryan (45:22):
Right on.
Trevor (45:23):
The quality or what makes great long range patrol
pilot, I think is someone thatcan think, think on their feet
and solve problems in dynamicsituations.
Bryan (45:33):
Yeah, I would agree with that.
Trevor (45:35):
Similar to what Pat has said is that, you know, you can,
you can take off and yourmission can change. Your mission
can change several times. I'vehad, I've had flights where I've
had the mission changed threetimes on me from, from something
like an anti narcotics thatswitched to a search and rescue,
and then switched back to a,another patrol. So it's it's
(45:59):
thinking on your feet and thenbeing able to think of those
dynamic situations I think makesa good long range patrol pilot
for sure.
Bryan (46:05):
Yeah. Pat, what makes an excellent mission commander
either in your current settingor within the RCAF?
Pat (46:12):
I think it would be the same for for both the RCAF and
the type of work that I do now.You know, I think back of the
people that were tacticalcoordinators and the people that
were crew commanders back in myAurora days, and they all had
(46:32):
the same similar traits that Isee now that are needed in this
job. And we've alluded toearlier, it's just that ability
to think on your feet andconstantly reevaluate what
you're doing and war game inyour own head. What if this
(46:53):
happens and what if thathappens? And also just not be
afraid to not know what to doand reach out to your crew.
Nobody gets through this alone.And the people that do well are
the people that are engaged withthe experienced crew members
(47:16):
that you have and come up with aplan as a team. It doesn't
happen without a team. So it'sjust that ability to admit to
yourself that you need otherpeople and think on your feet is
absolutely the number one skillsomebody in this job needs to
have.
Bryan (47:35):
Yeah. I totally agree that the team relying on your
team and using that as aresource is is massive. Like I
always used to say that my jobwhen I was a I I didn't get a
ton of experience as a crewcommander, but I did upgrade to
crew commander. And I alwaysused to my philosophy was that
my job was not to knoweverything. My job was to get
all the information I neededfrom all my experts and then
(47:58):
make a decision.
Pat (47:59):
Yeah, exactly. You don't have to know everything, you got
to know the people that know thestuff you don't.
Bryan (48:04):
That's right, yeah. Yeah. If each of you could give a
newbie in your trade a piece ofadvice, what would it be?
Trevor (48:13):
Yeah. I would say I would say study study hard.
Learn your aircraft. Understandhow she works and why she won't
sometimes. Because when thingsgo wrong, which they will, take
a breath, think and act.
(48:33):
Enjoy your emergency.
Bryan (48:37):
How about you, Pat?
Pat (48:38):
Well, what I would say to a new guy coming the trade is
treat every opportunity thatcomes your way as something that
will benefit you in your careerlater on, whether you know it or
not. So don't be in a rush tosay, no, I don't want to do
that. Just somebody says you'regoing go on this course or
you're going to go on thisdeployment or this exercise.
(49:01):
Just start at yes. And becauseyou never know how that will
benefit you five years down theroad, ten years down the road or
twenty years down the road whenyou find yourself in a different
role or in a different jobsomewhere else, is treat
everything as an opportunity andjust do it.
(49:24):
That's how you're gonna bebetter at your job and open up
even more doors for you down theroad.
Bryan (49:32):
Yeah, that's a great piece of advice for sure. Okay,
guys, that is going to wrap upour chat on your work with PAL
and the Dutch Coast Guard doingSAR and counter drug work in The
Caribbean. I wanna thank you forthe important work you guys are
doing and thank you so much fortaking the time to make this
show happen. Thank you guys.
Pat (49:51):
Thanks for having me, Brian. This has been a lot of
fun.
Trevor (49:55):
And thanks Brian. Very much appreciate the exposure
you're getting to the aviationcommunity and industry. This is
a great podcast. I'll keeplistening.
Bryan (50:04):
Thanks. Oh, and fly safe, guys.
Pat (50:06):
Always. Always.
Bryan (50:08):
Alright. That wraps up our chat with Trevor and Pat
about search and rescue andcounter drug operations in The
Caribbean with the DutchCaribbean Coast Guard and PAL
Aerospace. For our next episode,we'll be sitting down with a
Sartech and an aircraftcommander from a Tsar Hercules
who took part in a dramaticrescue of an Air Tindi flight in
the Northwest Territories. Youdon't wanna miss this one. Do
(50:30):
you have any questions orcomments about anything you've
heard in this show?
Would you or someone you knowmake a great guest, or do you
have a great idea for a show?You can reach out to us at the
pilotprojectpodcast@Gmail.com oron all social media at at pod
pilot project. And be sure tocheck out that social media for
lots of great videos of our RCAFand mission aviation aircraft.
As always, we'd like to thankyou for tuning in and ask for
(50:53):
your help with the big three.That's like and follow us on
social media, share with yourfriends, and follow and rate us
five stars wherever you get yourpodcasts.
That's all for now. Thanks forlistening. Keep the blue side
up. See you. Engineer, shut downall four.
Shutting down all four engines.
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