Episode 69: The Rescue: Air Tindi crash survivors in the NWT – Conducting a CC-130H Hercules rescue, Part 1 – Jason Shaw & Vincent C-Benoit

In this first installment of The Rescue, Captain Jason Shaw and Sergeant Vincent C-Benoit of 435 Transport and Rescue Squadron take us inside the world of Canadian search and rescue operations. From their early days in the Canadian Army and Air Force - including deployments to Afghanistan and Bosnia - to the rigorous training pipeline for pilots and SAR Techs, Jason and Vince share how they became leaders in one of the most demanding trades in the RCAF.

They walk us through the skills, mindset, and teamwork required to fly the CC-130H Hercules into some of the harshest environments in Canada. Along the way, they recount intense training experiences, mountain rescues, operational jumps, and life-or-death missions that prepared them for one of the most dramatic rescues of recent years: the Air Tindi crash in the Northwest Territories.

This episode is Part 1 of their story, focusing on careers, training, and earlier rescues that set the stage for the high-stakes mission at the heart of this two-part series.

Episode Transcript

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Bryan (00:58):
Alright. We're ready for departure here at the pilot
project podcast, the best sourcefor stories and advice from RCAF
and mission aviation pilotsbrought to you by Sky's
Magazine. I'm your host, BrianMorrison. With me today are two
special guests, captain JasonShaw and sergeant Vince C.
Benoit, both of four three fiveTransport and Rescue Squadron in
Winnipeg, Manitoba.
Jason is a pilot on the CC onethirty eight Hercules, and Vince

(01:19):
is a search and rescuetechnician or Sartech. Guys,
welcome to the show, and thanksso much for being here.

Vincent (01:25):
Thanks for having us.

Jason (01:26):
Yep. Thanks for having us.

Bryan (01:27):
So today, we're going to talk about their careers and the
training they've been through.And then in the second half of
the interview, we'll be talkingabout a rescue the two of them
and crew took part in just overa year ago in December 2023 when
an Air Tindi flight crashed inthe Northwest Territories. But
before we jump into any of that,let's go through their bios.
Jason joined the military in2002 as a land communication and

(01:49):
information systems technicianor LCIS tech, which was an army
NCM trade. He was posted toPetawawa until 2010, and during
that time, he deployed to Bosniaand Afghanistan.
In 02/2010, he was accepted inthe university training plan for
noncommissioned members or UTPNCM as a pilot, and he went to
the Royal Military College inKingston to get his degree.

(02:10):
Towards the end of that program,he was accepted on a scholarship
program and obtained hismaster's degree in physics. In
2016, he was posted to Moose Jawand completed phase two on the
CT 156 Harvard. The followingyear, he began phase three on
the C-90B King Air in Portage LaPrairie and ultimately received
his wings in 2018. That sameyear, he was posted to four
thirty five Transport and RescueSquadron in Winnipeg to fly the

(02:32):
CC-130H Hercules.
In 02/2019, he completed hiscourse at the CC one thirty
eight operational training unitor OTU in Trenton to become an
operational SAR first officer.He upgraded to SAR aircraft
commander in 2022 and since thenhas worked in a variety of
training and standards roles atfour thirty five Squadron. Vince
joined the infantry reserve at2006 at the age of 16, driven by

(02:55):
a desire to serve in Afghanistanduring the height of the global
war on terrorism. In the 2007,he was posted to second Vanduz
regimen in Balcarce, and hedeployed to Kandahar in 2009 as
an infantryman. While overseas,one of his key responsibilities
was tactical combat casualtycare or TCCC, which provided him
with his first exposure topatient care in a combat

(03:16):
environment.
Following his deployment, hepursued a role in sniper platoon
where he served for six yearsand completed multiple advanced
qualifications includingreconnaissance sniper, advanced
mountain instructor, helicopterinsertion instructor, and
airborne round and squareparachute qualifications. In
2015, while instructing on theadvanced mountain operator or

(03:37):
AMO course, he executed a highlytechnical mountain rescue of a
fellow instructor. This eventwas a pivotal moment in his
career inspiring him totransition to search and rescue.
He was selected for SAR trainingin the 2016 and attended SAR
Tech course 50 graduating in02/2017. He was subsequently
posted to four two four squadronin Trenton where he progressed

(03:57):
to team leader and standardspositions.
During his time there, heparticipated in numerous
missions utilizing the CH oneforty six Griffin and the CC one
thirty eight Hercules. In July2021, he was posted to four
thirty five squadron initiallyserving as currently holding the
position of deputy Sartechleader or DSTL. The year 2023

(04:18):
was particularly significant inhis career as he led multiple
high impact missions includingthree operational jumps, two in
response to plane crashes, and anight water jump for a
critically injured patient. So,guys, thank you both for your
service in Afghanistan. I have aton of respect for anyone who
served in Afghanistan,especially you guys on the
ground.
That must have been a crazyexperience, so thank you both.

(04:41):
So, Jason, you joined the CAF asan LCIS tech. What inspired you
to join the military?
And just before we answer that, for the listeners, LCIS
tech is land communications andinformation systems tech. It's
one of the older signals tradesin the army that were eventually
amalgamated under a trade.

Jason (04:57):
Yeah. I think I kind of got interested in the military
towards the tail end of highschool. Wasn't quite sure what
trade I wanted to do. Even wentin to talk to a recruiter a
little bit and still wasn'treally sure. So I ended up going
to college after high school.
I took a electronics engineeringdiploma in college. And even
during that time, towards thetail end of that program, as my

(05:19):
friends in the program were,they were starting to look for
jobs in the industry. I just Thedesire to go in the military
stuck with me. At the same timetoo, nineeleven happened during
my third year in college. So Idefinitely changed just the
whole kind of culture that wasgoing on at the time.
So yeah, decided right then tomake a career out of it.

Bryan (05:37):
And how do you feel your experience as an LCIS tech
influences your perspectives asa pilot?

Jason (05:42):
I wouldn't say it was my experience as an actual My
actual trade, but I think beingan NCM before I was an officer
helped me out a little bit.Especially as I got further
along and we upgraded, Justenabled me to kind of see it
from both perspectives, relateto the different crew members,
NCMs and officers. Probablyhelped me out a little bit that
way.

Bryan (06:02):
Yeah, for sure. I think a lot of times I hear that people
who are started as an NCM makesome of the best officers just
because they have thatperspective and they've had that
experience of what it's like tobe an NCM and kind of see the
the good sides and the bad sidesof different leaders.

Jason (06:18):
Yeah. Pilots in particular through the training
system, don't really see NCMsvery much like it's Mhmm. You're
on a course with a bunch ofother pilots and you get all the
way through the OTU andeventually at your operational
squadron, which that's kind ofthe first time you're actually
going to be working on a dailybasis with NCM. Yeah. Yeah.
I know just for me having thatexperience prior to that
probably made it a little biteasier to relate to everyone in

(06:39):
the squadron.

Bryan (06:40):
Yeah. For sure. The techs and the other members of the
crew and

Jason (06:42):
all that. Yeah. Sure.

Bryan (06:43):
Yeah. Vince, you joined as infantry in the years
following nine eleven. What wasit like to be in the combat arms
in those days?

Vincent (06:50):
It was a different time for sure. Back then, everybody
was focused on on a mission.Everybody at that point wanted
to deploy and that was kindaeverybody was driven by it. I
joined at 16. That's what Iwanted to do.
And that kind of carried overuntil we we got out of there at
2011, I believe Canadians gotout there. I'm not quite sure

(07:12):
what the date. It was nicebecause everybody had a common
goal at that time. Yeah.

Bryan (07:18):
How did your experience in the infantry shape how you
conduct yourself as a Sartech?

Vincent (07:22):
Yeah. I gained a lot through the infantry, especially
leadership wise, and that'shelping me now as as a a Sartech
leader, as a team lead in theplane. Also being able, we'll
talk about later, talk aboutmore sniper stuff, but working
in small teams and be highlyrelied upon by the chain of

(07:44):
command and being able to takedecision on the fly and stay
calm in chaotic situation, thathelped me as a sarcophagus for
sure.

Bryan (07:53):
Yeah. That makes sense. And in my experience, like the
guys and girls I worked with whowere army first, like the
leadership piece is such astrong there's such strong
emphasis on leadership withinthe army. I always found that
they made, like, really, reallystrong leaders and had had very
like how can I put this? Like inthe air crew world, you don't

(08:14):
get a ton of leadershiptraining.
Right? So hopefully you're agood leader. Hopefully you've
had good mentorship. But peoplewho come from the army, like
they know leadership. They knowthe principles of leadership and
they know exactly how to be agood leader.

Vincent (08:26):
Yeah. I agree with that. And I wanted to add that
to what Jay mentioned. I thinkhe's too humble to say it, but I
think his background helped himas an aircraft commander because
he's got as a star pilot, he'sgotta manage not only the plane,
but he's gotta manage all thecrew and the decision making. So
for I I think that definitelyhelped him, become a better

(08:48):
leader in the planet and have adirect impact on the mission.

Bryan (08:52):
So Jason, during your time in the army, you deployed
to Bosnia and Afghanistan. Whatwere those experiences like?

Jason (08:58):
Yeah. Were both quite a bit different from each other.
Like Bosnia was the In 02/2004,it was the tail end of kind of
large scale Canadian involvementin Bosnia. I think I was in the
last full rotation to I was inVelika, Kladucha at the time,
which was kind of the northernarea of Bosnia. Not a lot going

(09:19):
at the time.
I was in a support role as well.But I got a chance to see a part
of the world that I never wouldhave went to on my own and work
with a really good group ofpeople as well. I went to
Afghanistan in 02/2006 and itwould have been prior to when
Vince went. It was during atransitional time. We were
moving from the Northern part ofAfghanistan up in Kabul.

(09:39):
So that was the first few monthsI was there. And we're basically
taking the entire Canadianfootprint and moving it down to
Kandahar where RC South wouldeventually The rotation
following ours is what mostCanadians would kind of remember
as the large scale Canadiancombat operations in
Afghanistan. So the last coupleof months was It was really just
about building up the camp andthe infrastructure for follow on

(10:01):
battle group from one PPCLI thatcame in after us. But both
experiences were really good.Enjoyed them both.

Bryan (10:08):
What were those early days in Afghanistan like? Was
there like a ton of fighting yetor how did that look?

Jason (10:15):
Well, for us, no. It was the rotation after mine in the
2006 that that stuff reallykicked off. But it was kind of
strange and we were in Kaf,which is Kandar Airfield. Was
the largest basin in Afghanistanat the time. And when the
Canadian Canadians went downthere, we just had this large
area of the camp which wasgravel.
But at the same time, differentareas of the camp. There was

(10:36):
like Pizza Hut and Burger Kingand that kind of thing. So it
was kind of a weird experiencebeing there when we didn't
really have anything but otherareas of the camp did. Yeah. We
we really focused on the lastcouple of months.
We were there just doingeverything we could to set the
next rotation up for success.

Bryan (10:51):
Yeah. Did you have any intense experiences in either
place?

Jason (10:56):
Not really a lot. No. Bosnia, like I said, it was the
tail end of what was going onthere. Yep. In Afghanistan, a
lot of the focus was setting upfor the following rotations.
Yeah. Which would Like I said,that was the large scale combat
operations that probably mostCanadians are familiar with for
Afghanistan.

Bryan (11:14):
What was your role exactly as an LCIS tech?

Jason (11:16):
So an LCIS tech, it's a technician. The trades even
changed now, as a technicianwith the army, within the army
signals.

Vincent (11:24):
Okay.

Jason (11:24):
So for the most part, I've fixed and repaired army
tactical communications gear. Soall the stuff that you would see
in army vehicles, all the radiosand the kind of equipment they
had in there, we would work on.We'd fix the stuff that the
infantry guys would be carryingas comms gear. We would be
fixing that kind of stuff too.Okay.
That's mostly what I did. Thetrade did a lot more than that

(11:45):
as far as networks and beyondline of sight communication
stuff. But I mostly focus onlike tactical communications.

Bryan (11:53):
Okay. So almost kind of like the army's version of like
an avionics tech?

Jason (11:57):
Yeah. That's That'd the closest comparison. Yep. For
sure.

Bryan (12:01):
Vince, in Afghanistan, one of your responsibilities was
tactical combat casualty care.Has caring for the wounded and
injured always been somethingyou were interested in or was
this just assigned to you?

Vincent (12:11):
To be honest, it was initially just assigned to me. I
just raised my hand forsomething else that I I didn't
really know what I was gettinginto. Turns out, let's say,
after my first experienceoverseas, I was hooked.

Bryan (12:28):
Yeah. What was your first mass casualty event in
Afghanistan like? And did youfeel prepared by your training?

Vincent (12:35):
I was really prepared. And and that's that's what I
wanna I wanna talk about thatfor for a little bit is it
really that day really drove mytraining vision. For now, it's
been close to eighteen yearsthat I've been serving. That
specific moment really, reallyset my vision for training. And

(12:57):
so what happened is we were twodays or three days into tour.
I did not have all my my gearyet. My gear did not arrive from
Canada yet. And we left for thatthat operation. We would go and
take a village that's calledMooshan there in Kantar. It was

(13:18):
a big operation.
Anyways, conduct the operationand then we came back. And then
one of the, leopard tank got wasstepped on an IED and three
Canadian members were in it. Andthen we did exactly what we were
supposed to, treated them. But Iremember having that clear

(13:39):
thought. And I still remember tothis day and still drives me.
I was 19 years old overseas, andI remember looking at that
person that I was treating. Hewas a fellow Canadian. I
remember thinking, wow, this isexactly as it was trained for.
That person right now is, ofcourse, suffering. But I detach

(14:01):
myself from that because I waspre exposed to that stress and
that person acted.
That person wasn't acting, buthe was exactly the same as
actors on the courses Ireceived. So I was pretty
exposed to that stress already,and we'll talk about it later
into into training stuff forSara. But I still remember that

(14:26):
clearly like it was yesterday.And then we took those that's
kind of the first layer of thisstory. And then we took those
wounded and brought them toWheatfield.
I still remember like it wasyesterday. It was a Wheatfield.
I was on my knees. I rememberhaving wheat up to my chest and
those two US Blackhawk came. Onewas orbiting and shooting, the

(14:50):
other one came came hot andlanded in the wheat in front of
us, and there's two pjs thatstep out

Bryan (14:56):
of it. And the pj is a a para jumper. Right?

Vincent (14:59):
That's correct. That's kind of the tactical version of
a Sartech, but for for US Forcombat. Yeah. And I remember
looking at those guys in awe.Like, okay, those guys are
freaking heroes.
Mhmm. I wanna be that person.And I I still have a picture.
I'll send it to you of thatexact moment that's engraved
into my brain. And that's whatkind of drove me towards SAR

(15:21):
because there's the closestthing we can we can do in Canada
from from PJ.
So anyway, it was a goodexperience. Had many more
casualties and mascots acrossduring that tour that we can
talk can do an entire podcast onthat. But that first exposure to

(15:42):
it, it was a positive experiencefor me and I'm carrying that
right now.

Bryan (15:46):
Oh, that's amazing. That sounds like such a crazy intense
experience to go through. And,yeah, the PJs, they're they're
wild. When I was in Kuwait, wedid a tour of their facility,
the whole rescue facility. Wesaw the Hercs they had ready to
go with all their gear.
All the PJs are like eight feettall and made of muscle. And

(16:08):
like you said, they're they looklike heroes. It's it's pretty
comforting to know they'rearound when you're out flying
your missions and stuff.

Vincent (16:14):
Yeah. For sure.

Bryan (16:17):
So, Jason, you decided to make the move from the Army to
the RCAF. What started yourpassion for aviation and what
made you try to pursue thatwithin the RCAF?

Jason (16:27):
Well, it started when I was a young kid. Maybe not the
typical story, but I remember,you know, being 10, 11 years old
playing flight simulator on myparents' computer. It was back
in the days when you had justlike a computer room. And yeah.
That's that's really all I hadaccess to though.
Like, didn't there wasn't theopportunity to actually pursue

(16:51):
flying like in in aircraft whereI was where I was from. So I
just kind of had that interestand it just it just stayed with
me. Didn't have the opportunitywhen I first got in the military
to be a pilot. So I just kind ofkind of kept it alive and, you
know, few years later, thatopportunity would come up again
and I took advantage of it.

Bryan (17:10):
How did that opportunity come up? What's the story there?

Jason (17:13):
Well, that's through the UTP NCM program. So it's an in
service selection program forNCMs to become officers. In that
particular program, I think it'sstill it's open to all officer
MOCs. So I waited, you know, toa point in my career where I
thought I'd be like a decentcandidate for that program. I'd
done a couple deployments bythat time with some courses and

(17:34):
stuff and did aircrew selectionas part of the application for
that program and ultimately gotaccepted to be a pilot through
UTPNCM.

Bryan (17:43):
Okay. Just out of curiosity, the aircrew selection
that you did, was that still theone where you went and sat in
the simulator or was it thenewer one?

Jason (17:51):
Yeah. Think I was so when I did it was that was called
CAPS and it was the littlesimulators. There's one on the
museum in Trenton. But at thesame time, that was a part of
the course that counted for ourselection. If I remember, it was
maybe three sessions in thosesimulators and then like the
test day.
But at the same time, we weredoing the the tests that I think
they do now. And if I remember,they were just kind of trying to

(18:14):
evaluate both at the same time.

Bryan (18:15):
Okay. So you were kind of like a hybrid course?

Jason (18:17):
Yeah. Maybe it was the CAPS stuff that actually counted
for us. But we were at the sametime doing the it was like
computer based testing if Iremember.

Bryan (18:25):
Okay. You decided to pursue further education and get
a master's degree at RMC. Whatmade you want to do that instead
of pursuing flight training asquickly as possible?

Jason (18:35):
Yeah. So at the time, as part of UTPNCM, I was doing my
bachelor's degree at RMC. Andduring my third year, think I
found out about a program. Itwas called Postgraduate on
Scholarship. And the program,I'm not sure if it's changed.
It was open to any DO or ROTPcadets that were still doing

(18:56):
their undergraduate degree andthen you could apply and you
basically just continue on rightinto doing your master's. So I
had done well enoughacademically during my
undergraduate degree that Ithought I'd be, again, like a
decent enough candidate toapply. So it was really about
opportunity. I was already inlike academic mindset. It's kind
of hard to go get out of thatand go back into it, especially

(19:18):
to start a master's.
I was in Kingston. I was goingto continue on in Kingston.
Yeah. Yeah. So I applied in mythird year and got selected from
one of the spots.
So it just ended up being a sixyear block of university for me
instead of four.

Bryan (19:31):
Yeah. And I think you're totally right. Especially as air
crew, you get out of thatacademic mode, you get into the
operational world. It's really,really tough to find the time
and space. There are people whodo it obviously.
I don't know how they manage todo it. Some people do it
concurrently like while stillflying. I can definitely see the
value in doing it first and thenjust moving on with your flight

(19:52):
training.

Jason (19:52):
Yeah. And I remember when I I started my masters, a couple
of guys from the Air Force cameback and who had been flying for
a few years and it was justdifficult for them to get back
into it. They had to take even acouple maybe preparatory courses
to get the math skills back up.So I was really Just to be able
to continue right on in thatsame mode, probably a lot
easier.

Bryan (20:11):
Yeah, for sure. How do you feel that further education
and experience has helped you asa pilot?

Jason (20:17):
I wouldn't say I've taken anything from, you know, a
direct one for one transfer thatI did during any, university
course. Just, I had spent thatlong learning how to become a
good learner, I would say. Howto manage my time, study habits.
So study like learning whenyou're doing flying training,

(20:39):
it's quite a bit different thanpost secondary courses. But the
same some of the same stuffapplies like managing your time,
just getting in study habits.
That's really what I was able totake to it.

Bryan (20:50):
Yeah, for sure. All right. So what we're going to do
here is we're going to talk alittle bit about Jason's
training and then we're going toswing around and talk with Vince
about some of his training as aSartech. So Jason, how did phase
one flight training go for youon the G120A Grobe?

Jason (21:06):
Yeah. Did phase one on the Grobe after my fourth year
and before I started mymaster's. So I think the buildup
to phase one at the time, I wasreally looking forward to it but
also really nervous about it.Yeah. Because spent four years
kind of watching other guys goand you hear it's this course,
you have to pass it if you'regoing be a pilot.
So kind of spent almost fouryears getting really nervous

(21:28):
about it. Every summer guyswould come back and we'd hear
who passed and who failed andhow hard the course was. But
when you get there, it's just aflying course. It's on I think
it's whatever it was at thetime, twenty some hours. I
started in May, I was done bylate July.
No real hiccups or anything. Ihad previously went and got

(21:50):
maybe eight or nine hours juston a Cessna at the Kingston
Flying Club to help me prepare.Probably didn't even matter. So
really that course was my firsttime really flying under like a
proper Like a structured course.

Bryan (22:03):
Yeah.

Jason (22:04):
Ultimately successful in that one and then went back for
two more years to finish offuniversity stuff.

Bryan (22:11):
Yeah. It's funny. I'm sure So I bypassed phase one.
I'm sure though I would havebeen quite nervous for it if I
had gone for it because I alwayshad the same kind of thoughts in
mind. Like, oh, this is aselection course.
It's make or break. But more andmore, the more I talk to
especially as I've done thispodcast and talked to
instructors and stuff, it's moreand more like it's not as much

(22:31):
anymore about weeding people outbecause we trust that our
aircrew selection is largelydoing that. It's really about
trying to get as many people whoare capable of passing of to
pass.

Jason (22:39):
Yeah. I've heard that too that I don't know if that's
their official stance. Like,it's a transition from a
selection thing to what yousaid. But, yeah, I was
definitely nervous about it.When you look back on phase one
after you're an operationalpilot, it's just like a like a
blip almost.
You don't even Yeah. Reallyremember it that much.

Bryan (22:55):
Yeah. For sure. For phase two, you got to fly on the CT
one fifty six Harvard two. Howwas that experience for you and
did you have any big challenges?

Jason (23:03):
Yep. Phase two was good. It's as everyone knows, it's
really that core course forpilots that most of the skills
you learn in phase two I stilluse today and you just apply
further on. I started the flyingphase in phase two in January.
So there's just there were somechallenges there with the
weather.
Yeah. For the most part, made itthrough a couple hiccups with

(23:25):
some tests and stuff. I think itactually benefited me in the
end. I learned to manage stressa little bit better and to
really not make things biggerthan they actually were. So I
finished phase two later on in2017 And then spent a couple
months there working as ascheduler before going to phase
three.

Bryan (23:45):
Okay. So like time for a short break before you went on
phase three but not too long?

Jason (23:50):
Yeah. A couple months. Couple months working as a
scheduler. Guess it's aninteresting story. It was at the
end of phase two, selected to bea rotary pilot to be a
helicopter pilot.

Bryan (24:00):
Okay.

Jason (24:01):
So I was like thinking, okay. Like, that's what I was
going do. When I when I firstapplied to be a pilot, I made
the decision I was going to behappy with whatever I got.
That's where I was coming frommy former trade. So I was just
embraced that.
And then something came up witha multi course. I think they
were like four candidates shortor something like that. They

(24:22):
ended up putting on a courselater that year. And it was
really a matter of right place,right time. Was working as a
scheduler in Bandit Flight andMoose Jaw and got asked if I
wanted to do If I could leave ina week to do multi instead of of
helo.
So I did that. So it's it's kindof one of those forks in your
life that you never know howit's going to work out.

Bryan (24:42):
So was that when they offered you the chance to do
multi, did you take that becauseyou wanted multi or because
yeah?

Jason (24:48):
Yeah. Like I said, would be happy with anything, I wanted
multi. I started flying trainingwanting multi right from the
time I was in in phase one.

Bryan (24:56):
Okay. That's that's really cool that that happens.

Jason (24:58):
Yeah. Worked out. Yeah.

Bryan (24:59):
So you found out you're going multi, you go to phase
three. And by that point, mostpeople are usually in a groove
when it comes to flighttraining. Did you find there any
new big challenges on phasethree?

Jason (25:10):
Yeah. I generally agree with that. It's it's it's kind
of for for pilots the firstexposure to the crude
environment. Just you andanother pilot basically at that
point. I really enjoyed that andit started to feel probably like
multi was was a really goodchoice because I did enjoy the
the crude environment.
And it's also the first timeaway from the portage of the

(25:30):
moose Jaw bubble. I really likedWe had cross country. So it was
before COVID. So we were reallyable to go out and I think the
Canadian one we went to as farout as Tofino, Columbus and
Calgary, we managed to get allthe way out there. And then the
US One down to Minneapolis andDenver.
So yeah, I left phase three likefeeling confident like I got

(25:51):
everything out of the coursethat I wanted to.

Bryan (25:54):
Yeah. Phase three is a fun course. If you can shrug off
the stress and just enjoy it forwhat it is, like you're going to
some cool places, you're flyinga pretty fun little plane, like
it's a good course. So youfinished phase three and were
selected to fly the CC onethirty eight Hercules for search
and rescue. Was that what youwanted and how did you feel?

Jason (26:12):
So when I finished phase three at the time, I don't know
if it's still the same when youleft, you got to fill out your
list of I think you give yourlist of three aircraft that you
wanted to fly and then your listof three locations you wanted.
And they would try to kind ofmesh those together and get you
something you wanted. SoWinnipeg and the H model Herc
was not on either of those listsfor You know, but I've heard

(26:33):
people say, well, you don'treally know what you want. And
it was actually true for me. SoI put all the new air mobility
stuff in Trenton.
That's what I thought I wantedto do. Probably the best thing
that ever happened is I ended upin Winnipeg flying the H model.
It worked out really well. Ilove what I'm doing now. So
that's what I'd say to anyonekind of listening if you don't

(26:55):
feel too heartbroken if youdon't get exactly what you think
you want because it might workout in the end.

Bryan (27:00):
Yeah. I've heard that so many times from various guests
who have unexpected twists andturns in their career. Nine
times out of 10, it seems to methat it ends up being even
better than what they hadplanned.

Jason (27:11):
Yeah. Most guys like their first squadron no matter
what it is. Yeah. It's just yourfirst exposure being operational
and you're just gonna embraceit.

Bryan (27:18):
Yeah. It's exciting and it's like a special time in a
pilot's life and in any aircrew's life to get to that first
squadron and be part of theunit. What are the big skills a
SAR pilot needs to learn toprepare for conducting rescues
when they're on the operationaltraining unit or OTU?

Jason (27:34):
The OTU I'd say the majority of the focus on the OTU
is learning to fly the Herx. Sobuilding a base level of
proficiency and a base level ofknowledge about the aircraft and
all the procedures. Towards theend of it, it's almost more of
an exposure to the Herc in theSAR role. It really starts we

(27:54):
really start building like apilot up to be an aircraft
commander once they start at theat the actual squadron. So,
yeah, the OT is just those corecore flying skills with the HERC
and exposure to beyond that.

Bryan (28:07):
So most of the focus is basically teaching you to be a
safe and effective first officerto fly the plane well and to be
a safe pilot with the aircraftand then more of the tactics of
SAR come on the unit?

Jason (28:21):
Well, towards the end of the OTU, there's a SAR phase and
there's kind of a strat phasetoo. So there's a bit of a SAR
deploy. But again, looking backon that from when you actually
started the squadron, reallydoes seem like almost like you
get maybe a couple flights ofeach type of, SAR mission we
would do. Mhmm. And you reallystart building up that

(28:42):
experience once you reallystarted the squadron.

Bryan (28:45):
You said like the types of SAR flights you would do. Can
you give me an example of those?

Jason (28:49):
Yeah. Just to summarize, day, land, like marine and
night. That's If you could kindof take all that we do, you
could almost group them intothose three three kind of areas.

Bryan (29:00):
Okay. You have now upgraded to star aircraft
commander. How does theresponsibility change moving
into the commander role?

Jason (29:09):
Yeah. I I kind of walk you through it from the time you
get to the squadron. So I'vetold a couple of the pilots in
my job now that everything youdo is kind of getting due to
your first day at the squadronand that's the first day you're
actually really employed as apilot. And so it takes about two
two to three years to upgrade aSAR first officer to an AC. The

(29:32):
focus at first is, again,building up more proficiency
with the aircraft and expandingall that knowledge that they
need.
The second part is kind ofexpanding out into the different
positions, what the Sartecs aredoing, what the flight engineer
is doing, what the rest of yourcrew is doing. In the third
phase, we move into what we callacting AC. So the last six
months, maybe a little bitlonger, the FOB in the aircraft

(29:57):
commander role under theguidance of an instructor pilot
learning to do the job as an AC.And I remember for myself, like
after I finished that andupgraded, it's really good
training. Like you really feelready kind of compared to maybe
your first solo in the Harvardor something like that.
It's a lot different though. Iremember feeling like signing up

(30:18):
the plane for my first time andgoing on my first mission or
whatever like or even my firsttraining day. There's a lot more
responsibility but it was builtup over the course of a few
years and I actually felt ready.You look back and like, Oh yeah,
there's no IP there at thistime. But for the most part,
you've built up enoughexperience to kind of baseline
of being a safe and effective ACwhen you finish the training.

Bryan (30:42):
So you felt well prepared by the time you got there?

Jason (30:45):
I did. I remember my first few few nights being on
Slash, kind of looking at myphone and maybe hoping it
wouldn't ring.

Bryan (30:53):
Can you say what Slash is?

Jason (30:54):
Okay. Yeah. Slash is basically just our night shift.
Okay. Yeah.
We can know a couple of yourquestions later talk about the
our posture we have. But Iremember early on like that
phone rings and you never knowwhat's going to be on the other
end. And somewhere inside you'relike, you feel confident you can
probably deal with everything,but you don't necessarily know
right?

Bryan (31:13):
Because

Jason (31:13):
you haven't had to do it by yourself. So it was that
experience builds and youstarted learning as an AC, a lot
more comfortable. But I rememberthat first few months just being
like, I'm pretty sure I can doanything that's going to be
tasked to me, but you know, youdon't 100% know yet either.

Bryan (31:30):
Yeah. I guess in the SAAR world, like, you really never
know what's going be on theother end of that phone call.

Jason (31:36):
Well, the other end of phone call for us is, you know,
well now it's the Far West CoastOf BC, the North Pole, and the
Great Lakes. Yeah. So it couldbe anything in that whole area,
anytime of day you're on suit.To answer the phone and like you
instantly have to be able tokind of put your brain where

(31:58):
where that tasking is and adapt.You're used to it

Bryan (32:02):
though. Yeah. Which is like a massive range of like
types of terrain and

Jason (32:06):
Yep.

Bryan (32:07):
Even like the dangers of like mountainous terrain or
various things.

Jason (32:13):
You know, all in one, like in the summer or let's say
it's the fall, it could bewinter somewhere where you're
going, summer somewhere else,mountains, water Yep. Day,
night.

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Bryan (33:15):
So, Vince, we mentioned this in your bio, but when and
why did you decide you would tryto become a Sartech?

Vincent (33:20):
That's another story for an entire podcast too. I'll
try to make it short. So I was amountain operation instructor in
the army. So what that entailsis you you're an instructor for
well, back then there's threedifferent courses we were
teaching, basic mountain ops atthe unit level and then complex

(33:43):
terrain instructor course andadvanced mountain operator
course. Some of them were taughtAlt West.
So I was I think I believe itwas in twenty fourteen, twenty
fifteen. I was teaching out westin in the Rockies, an advanced
mountain operator course. And tokeep it short, what we're
teaching on those courses areclimbing skills and all the

(34:07):
rescue system and all to movetroops through complex terrain
at the army level. You'reteaching students all week
climbing in complex skills andon the weekend you go out, you
you pair up pair up with aninstructor and you go rick your
routes that you're gonna bringthe the student next the week

(34:29):
after. So it was a weekend.
Good friend of mine, and andfellow instructor, we'll call
him Ben. Actually, It's his lastname is Benoit like me. People
think we're cousin. I got alongwith him very well. So we are
out doing a recce on a CascadeMountain.
It's just outside of Banff. Ifyou're on Main Street Of Banff

(34:50):
and you're looking out at themountains, that the big big one
right there.

Bryan (34:53):
Oh, wow.

Vincent (34:55):
So we're we're climbing. It's on the Sunday.
We're five pitch up. So fivepitch a pitch would be on that
specific mountain would be a 30meter length of rope. And you
alternate pitch as you climb,you put removable protection.
We're about five pitch up and weskip a pitch. I just don't wanna

(35:18):
bring it too technical. But theshort story is he was a stronger
climber than than me. And one ofhis one of the the rock he was
holding ripped off the wall. Andhe tumbled down about 70 feet.
And the removable protection I'mtalking about, they just ripped

(35:40):
off the rock. So I never reallyarrested his fall with my rope
because we're always connectedwith a rope. So anyways, pretty
complex rescue scenario at thatpoint. I had to do exactly what
I was teaching the students theweek prior and I did the rescue.

(36:01):
When I showed up to him, he's agood friend of mine.
He's semi conscious, helmet'scracked, he's got broken leg,
his clothing looked like he wasattacked by a tiger. That's how
much the rock ripped everythinghe was wearing. So we're in a
pretty We're five feet pitshops. We were halfway up the

(36:22):
mountain, we can't climb up. SoI had to do a rescue system to
take him, to bring him down onmy own all the way to the
parking lot.
Reflected a lot after thatincident. I reflected a lot
about the way I reacted, the wayI conducted medical part in the

(36:45):
system. And I just wanted to bebetter at it. Did it. Everybody
was happy.
You would talk to Ben. He'sstill very happy with the
outcome of this, but I wanted tobe the best at it starting at
that point. Again, that's how Iconduct myself now and the
vision I have for training andthe way I train, my fellow

(37:07):
Sartex. There's there's pointlike that in my career that
kinda that that still drives meto this day. That was a big
turning point.
And because of that, I I decidedto go Sartre.

Bryan (37:20):
So this is like a big pivotal moment for you, the same
as that mass casualty event inAfghanistan was?

Vincent (37:27):
Yeah. I would say so. Very much so.

Bryan (37:29):
So before you were a Sartech, you trained as a
sniper. As part of that, yougained many qualifications
including reconnaissance sniper,airborne mountain instructor,
helicopter insertion instructor,and airborne round and square
parachute qualifications. Whatis similar and what is different
between that world and being aSartech, and what qualities do
you think helped you succeed inboth?

Vincent (37:50):
Well, the major difference is now I train to
save people. Mhmm. It was theopposite before.

Bryan (37:55):
Of course.

Vincent (37:56):
So different mindset, but a lot of skills that are
related. If I dissect a sniper,we're working teams of two and
four. So I'm used to work insmall team environment. I was a
corporal back then, and I wouldhave a direct line with the CEO
briefing him on on his attack,on his battalion size attack

(38:17):
with plus support. I would acorporal would brief him.
Picture three companies plusaltar re support plus tank
support plus CAS.

Bryan (38:28):
Okay. Well

Vincent (38:29):
So there's a lot relying on a corporal that's
telling him what's on the groundbecause the corporal has been
looking at that target for fourdays. So that was that was good.
To go back to your question,what skills? Well, as a sniper,
you're you're very advanced innavigation and survival because

(38:50):
you're in pretty difficultenvironment all the time because
you get inserted on your owndays in advance and you just
freeze. You freeze.
There's nothing there's nothingsexy about it. It's it's very
tough, very difficult. So, yougain a lot of resilience.

Bryan (39:12):
I was going to say it sounds like something where a
lot of mental resilience wouldbe essential.

Vincent (39:17):
For sure. And we'll go back. We're here to talk about
that mission, of course. Sowe'll talk about it. But yeah,
small team, resilience, and Iwould say, being relied upon was
major thing I learned as as asniper.
And then, of course, mountaininstructor stuff. I'm I'm

(39:38):
program that the army run isawesome. It makes me a better
product as a SAR tech right nowbecause I can teach all the SAR
techs about complex rigging andrope. That's easy for me.
Helicopter insertion while I wasat many hours on the Griffin
before even transitioning toSARA.
So doing rappel fast roll, helocast, I was very comfortable

(40:00):
with that already. So that wasthat was a plus for me. When it
comes to the airborne stuff, Iwas never posted to airborne
companies, so I can't speak forthat. I was I just did the
courses to give me more to addmore to my curriculum as a
sniper. But it was a goodexposure for for sure before
before going to SAR.

(40:20):
I knew I could do it. Mhmm.

Bryan (40:22):
So there's a fair bit of overlap in the the skills and
like the hard skills and the endpurpose is opposite, but a lot
of the skills overlap.

Vincent (40:31):
Yeah. For

Bryan (40:31):
sure. Yeah. What's the significance of the round and
square parachute qualifications?

Vincent (40:37):
That's a tough one to answer. Like I said, I was never
in a a airborne company, so Inever really employed it, at the
tactical level, which is it'skind of a rite of passage on on
the army side. That that coursehas been run. If you if you go
back to World War two, I wouldsay that course is pretty
similar than the way they run itback then. It's significant

(40:59):
because people are proud of ofdoing it.
It's it's a tough course, andpeople are proud of going
through it.

Bryan (41:04):
But what is the difference between a round and a
square parachute qualification?

Vincent (41:09):
Okay. You're asking about the difference. Yeah.
Okay. So a round parachute, it'sa 35 feet round parachute and
you go straight down.
You can't really control it.They tell you that you can, but
let's be honest, you don'tcontrol it much.

Bryan (41:22):
The

Vincent (41:24):
Square enables you the way Army or Soft would use it.
You can insert the free fall orstatic line. Free fall will be
you deploy on your own. Staticline would be it deploys as you
get out of the plane. You canuse it at very high altitude

(41:46):
and, and fly it to where to yourinsertion point, or you can
insert a very low level likeSardew and then, get to your
target.

Bryan (41:56):
Okay. Can you tell us about your experience at
selection, and how did itcompare to your previous sniper
training experience?

Vincent (42:03):
That's another turning point in my career selection.
Yeah. What I told you about themindset of saving people versus
doing the opposite. My mindsetreally switched one AD on
selection. I went there with abit of an army mentality and the

(42:24):
staff just really changed it forme.
I'll give you an example. Youyou do an army, course or
selection for a course. Italmost feel like they're badge
protecting or they're there tohurt people. I know that's not
their goal, but it's tough andit was a hard mentality. Now

(42:45):
going to SAR selection, thestaff would care for us.
They would tell us, just behonest with us. We'll fix you up
so you can continue. So thestaff would come at night and
look at our feet and fix us. Andthat really changed it for me. I
was like, oh, do you really wantus here?

(43:06):
So that was a turning point inmentality going from Army to Air
Force. And then what did theselection look like? It's
changed every year. Butbasically, your selection is
about two weeks Start inEdmonton, where you do a bunch
of physical tests. And there'sclasses where the they teach you

(43:29):
stuff.
And then the second part, gointo Jarvis Lake, which is this
Saratec camp and where you runsimilar to aircrew land survival
course. So it is a course now Idon't want to speak into
specific. I don't exactly knowI'm not at the school. I've
never been in the school. But ifI keep it broad, they teach you

(43:53):
something and they expect you todo it.
And I really had a hard timewith that. I kind of second
guess like, why am I here rightnow? They teach me to split
wood. While I was raised on thefarm, I split a lot of wood. You
don't need to teach me that.
But they want this teach you tosplit wood. They want you to do

(44:15):
exactly as they taught you.Well, later on the course, they
teach you how to pack aparachute once and that's the
first parachute you jump.

Bryan (44:25):
Wow.

Vincent (44:26):
So it's very well run and it also brings the level
equal for everybody. So you havea Navy personnel that come in,
never wear snowshoes on. Well,they teach you how to wear
snowshoes, and they expect youto do it the same way as they

(44:46):
taught you. So selection was agood experience for me. I
learned and I liked it.
Coming from an army backgroundgives us an advantage for sure
in regards to carrying heavyload in navigation and, and
survival. But like I said, theyteach you everything during
selection.

Bryan (45:07):
Can you tell us what happens after you make it
through selection as a startech? What training is required
before you're qualified?

Vincent (45:13):
After selection, you go through Air Crew Medical, and
then you get you go on course ifyou pass the Air Crew Medical.

Bryan (45:22):
On the Sartech course?

Vincent (45:23):
On the Sartech course, and that's running Comox. The
course is a year long. You startwith medicine at start because
we're all PCP paramedics,primary care paramedic. That was
the hardest part for me comingfrom an army background to now
doing a paramedic course. Onceyou complete this, you go into

(45:47):
every phases.
So diving, the dive is taught bythe Navy down in Victoria. You
go into your sea survival,Arctic survival, Ruiit, that's
the overturning helicopter inthe water, followed by
paraphase, mountain phase,that's summer and winter, and

(46:10):
then final ups, where everythingkind of comes together medicine
into complex jump mountainscenario. You complete that, you
go on grad and you get posted tounit.

Bryan (46:24):
Man, it sounds like a crazy and very difficult
experience.

Vincent (46:30):
I would say there's some people that There's not a
single candidate that's strongacross the board. Everybody's
got a phase that they strugglewith. But you're with such a
tight team that everybody helpseach other to go through it.
I'll give you an example. I hada hard time with medicine

(46:53):
initially, then there was amedic on the course that just
helped me go through it.
Especially with coming in with abig language barrier, as you can
see, it was it was harder forme, but I got through it. And
and the staff are there to helpyou to succeed.

Bryan (47:10):
Awesome. So on top of the training to get ready to be a SR
tech, you folks have a ton ofannual training to maintain. Can
you tell us about some of that?

Vincent (47:19):
Yeah. That's same as the pilot. We were chasing
currencies. Mhmm. We just haddifferent stuff on top.
So there's the day to day flyingcurrency. So we need to do
static line jump a free falljump every quarter. We also need
to do night jump and a waterjump and confine area. That's

(47:41):
kind of the flying day to day.And on the rotary wing, we have
to do clearance calling as well.
Clearance calling is to call ita helicopter into, to land into
a very tight confine area. Andon top of that, we need to do
our diving currencies. There'ssix dive at a minimum, six dive
every six months, which is quitechallenging here in Winnipeg

(48:06):
when it's minus 30. So we godown south in the winter for
that. We also need to do aMountain X every year to stay
proficient mountain and aParasat every year to stay
proficient with parachuting.
What's Parasat? It's a parachutesaturation training. Normally,
you do a minimum of 15, Ibelieve. But we normally do two

(48:35):
dozen jump over like a week.Okay.
Just to get saturated becausemanaging all those currency I
mentioned plus the flying, it'shard to get, We can't ask for
six jump in a day when you'reworking because all the other
air crew in the plane, need tochange the currency. So we don't

(48:58):
prioritize jumping on the day today. If we can get one or two,
it's nice. You don't picture itas takeoff and landing. If you
do multiple in a day, you'll getbetter and you can correct your
mistake.
And that's why we go out tonormally civilian drop zone and
conduct those type of trainingso we can get, more proficient.

Bryan (49:19):
Okay. Of all those requirements, what's your
favorite and what's your leastfavorite and why?

Vincent (49:25):
I would say I like them all.

Bryan (49:26):
Oh, yeah? Yeah. It's not one that you're like, just oh, I
gotta do that today.

Vincent (49:30):
Well, you know, initially I said I struggle with
medicine. Right? Yeah. Soinitially, I I didn't like doing
medicine. But as I kinda pushmyself to go outside my comfort
zone, I actually really enjoyit.
Another example of that is acurrency I didn't mention was we
need to do four hospital shiftsevery year. So here in Winnipeg,

(49:50):
we're fortunate we do it at HSCdowntown. So we go work with the
nurses, we see trauma patientand we're part of the team
downtown at HSC. Not a lot ofpeople can do that. So I really
enjoy that.
Of course, I enjoy being in themountain. I enjoy diving down
Key West. I enjoy parachuting inHilo, Arizona. Love all of it.

Bryan (50:15):
Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. I mean and and I guess I
should have expected thatbecause I don't think I ever met
a star tech who didn't lovetheir job. So

Vincent (50:24):
Yeah. And another thing, on that is, you know, I
just mentioned, oh, we're to KeyWest. We're going to, in the
mountains in Banff. A lot ofpeople thinks where it's it's
like a it's it's a Guccitraining. But I tell you when
I'm there with with with my myboys and girls, it's sunrise to

(50:46):
sunset training.
Mhmm. Because we're saturatingand it's it's we're not there to
party. We're there to train artand And that's a new generation
right now. People that arethere, they just want to be the
best at it. And again, that'sthe vision I had since two days

(51:06):
into Afghanistan is let's preexpose them to hard training.
So when big mission happen,they're already exposed to that
stress.

Bryan (51:17):
How does a Sartech find out where their first posting
will be? For pilots, I knowthat's a big deal. Is that like
an exciting time for Sartex?

Vincent (51:25):
Yeah. It's pretty exciting. Normally your own
course, and the course NCO givesyou gives the course senior
numbers. There's two guys forTrenton, two members in
Greenwood, and so on. Andnormally, the course find a
solution because the course inCEO says, if you don't find a

(51:46):
solution, we'll find one foryou.
I rarely heard of conflictshappening where it didn't work.
Winnipeg, for some reason, is ahard posting to fill. I don't
know. Well, I guess I know why Ididn't want to come here because
there's no helicopters. But Ilove I love my posting here.

(52:07):
I'm about to go in Trenton inthe spring, but I've been here
for four years soon and I lovedit. I love Winnipeg. It's a good
shot.

Bryan (52:18):
Yeah. Winnipeg in general is a nice nice spot. It's I
think it's a lot nicer thanpeople give it credit for.

Vincent (52:24):
I think I think people are afraid of the city and the
bad reputation the city brings,but Manitoba, like, around
around Winnipeg is is awesome,and people are are are very nice
and friendly around here.

Bryan (52:33):
I agree.

Vincent (52:34):
We loved it here.

Bryan (52:35):
What's it like to go from training to the operational
world? Did you feel prepared?

Vincent (52:39):
It's that was a bit of a shock because, like I said,
you're you're you just finishedyour year long course. Now you
got your very bright orangesuit. You're very proud of it.
You show up to the unit ready todo the job. And someone like me
will tell you, okay, pump thebrake.

(53:00):
You're still at the schooltraining for at least six
months. And they're like, what?Now you need same as a pilot.
You need to learn the airframe.And for some unit, there's two
airframe to learn.
So that can take up to a year toget finally on the schedule on

(53:21):
your own as a team member. Andthen when you think you got it
figured out, you're a teammember, you got to go up to team
lead and you're not qualifieduntil you're team leads. Same as
a pilot, pilot is not fullyqualified until reach AC. It's
the same training establishment.It takes four to five years to

(53:42):
become a team lead.
So you're constantly learning.And once you're a team lead,
you're still learning.

Bryan (53:48):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's that's the same in in the
aviation world in general.Right? Like, never stop
learning.
You're never you're neversuddenly an expert and now I
know it all and and I can stoplearning. Like, I'm sure Jason
can agree with that from thepilot side.

Jason (54:04):
Yeah. I've always found like really for the pilots, like
their first flight at thesquadron, it's taken them years
to get there. You know, aircrewselection phase one, two, three.
But like that's your actualfirst day of the job. And then
you're not even qualified toreally do the job as an AC for
like years later.
And then even your first day asan AC, you're just qualified to

(54:27):
like take a sign off the planeto take you on a mission.

Bryan (54:30):
Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of funny. Like you go through all
this work, you've been trainingfor years, you get your trade
qualification and you're like,yes. Like, I did it.
I know what I'm doing. Like, I'mI'm qualified. And then you get
to the unit and and you're like,oh, I'm just a baby. Like,
there's so much more to learnstill.

Vincent (54:46):
There's there's something we do here at the unit
and I I wanna keep it a bit of asecret. But basically, when the
newer team members show up, wegive them a good reality check
where he's doing somethingmedical, for example. Of course

(55:07):
it will be tough because youhaven't touched medical in a
while, got posted and then he'sdoing medical with me as a team
lead. But I reassure them and Itell them, you know what? That's
the worst you're going to everbe.
It's right now. It's todaybecause we'll bring you up to
become the best team lead. WhenRTMs, restricted team members,

(55:27):
show up to the unit aftercourse, we right away start to
teach them to become team leads.We don't teach them to become
team members.

Jason (55:37):
And it's the same thing for the pilots. First officer,
it's a it's a temporaryposition. Yep. We don't have
first officers as a it's likethroughout the air force, right?
Like there's no career firstofficer.
It's it's the start of thecourse from the first flight out
of the squadron.

Bryan (55:53):
So you've kind of talked us through the upgrade process
just now. How would you sayresponsibility changes as you
move into the role of team lead?

Vincent (56:03):
Yeah. In the plane, it makes a big difference. To
start, I'll start on the planeand then on the ground. On the
plane, the team members got lessresponsibility because he's less
involved in mission planning.Although we always talk to them
and ask their advice andeverybody in the plane,

(56:24):
loadmaster, flight engineer, thenavigator.
When Jay and I are flyingtogether, it's not our plan,
it's not Jay's plan, it's as agroup and everybody's got their
say. So, they have a bigresponsibility, but the team
lead is very involved in missionplanning with the AC, is very

(56:45):
involved into the decisionmaking of how we're gonna
conduct the mission. Of course,it's always the aircraft
commander who's got the last sayof go go, no go. I kind of have
to sell my plan to Jay before weget into it. So a bit more
mission planning and alsoteammates got a lot of weight on

(57:05):
the shoulder when it comes torisk assessment.
We'll touch on that on themission. Sure. A lot more weight
because at the end of the day, Ihave my team members to take
care of. And then once we're onthe ground, the team members got

(57:26):
also a lot of medicalresponsibilities because the
team lead will be very busy withmission planning, talking to the
aircraft, talking to GRCC, whichis the Joint Rescue Coordination
Center. We call them directly.
We talk to physician directly ormedical director here at OneCAD

(57:47):
if we need help on the ground.So it's as a team leader, you're
more involved into the biggerpicture.

Bryan (57:54):
You're saying, like, when you're on the ground during a
rescue?

Vincent (57:57):
That's correct.

Bryan (57:57):
Yeah.

Vincent (57:57):
Yeah. And the team member will be more involved
into hands on medical skill. Wealways see the team members
there to make the team lead lookgood in the plane or outside the
plane.

Bryan (58:10):
So, Jason, you've been involved in several successful
rescues other than the one we'regoing to discuss later on. Can
you tell us a bit about those?

Jason (58:18):
Yeah, sure. I think the one I'll talk about is the
Kishkatina Lake one. And Vincewas on it as well.

Bryan (58:24):
So

Jason (58:25):
about three months before the Air Tindi rescue, an area
south of Kenora, a fly in onlyfishing camp was it? Yeah. Yeah.
A fly in only fishing camp. Soit was in September.
I got the call at 1AM. That'show they usually task us. We can
talk about that more too. Likethey call it AC and then give me
the details. So tasking waspretty simple.

(58:45):
There was a patient medicaldistress. They didn't have a
evac form until the nextmorning. So they wanted us to go
there, deploy our Sartex andthey would take care of them
until the evacuation the nextmorning. So I had a lot of the
same kind of It was kind of likea building block mission that we
used for the Air Tindi rescue.So flew there at night, quick

(59:06):
short forty minute flight, whichwas a lot different than the Air
Tindi mission.
Just quick. We use a lot of thesame techniques that we use to
get the Sartex on the ground atnight. So use the same type of
jumps under flare. In this case,they actually landed in the
water close to the camp. Oncethey were out, we were dropping

(59:26):
them bundles as well, which wassimilar to the Airtandy mission.
And then they ultimately stayedwith the patient all night. We
orbited overhead until a planecould come in the next morning,
I think from Kenora and bringthem back up to Kenora. The
biggest thing was like the crewthough too. Like myself and
Vince were on that mission. Itwas the same load master and the
same flight engineer that was onthe Air Tindi mission.

Bryan (59:48):
Okay.

Jason (59:48):
Just just by circumstance, just by
scheduling. Mhmm. So it reallyfelt like having worked with him
on a mission like that, that wasalmost something we kind of
could build on for a morecomplex, more dynamic mission
that would come a few monthslater.

Bryan (01:00:04):
Yeah. Was going to ask like what did you learn from
conducting this mission thathelped you moving forward with
the Air Tindi mission? But itsounds like partly you guys
almost had like a rehearsal

Jason (01:00:13):
A little bit.

Bryan (01:00:13):
Yeah. Under sounds like slightly easier circumstances.

Jason (01:00:16):
From the pilot's side, I mean, they had additional
complications with the waterpart of it. Mhmm. But from us,
yeah, everything was justweather was better, it was
closer. I think the winds were alittle more complicated as far
as flying some of the patterns.But yeah, it was definitely
Calling it like a dressrehearsal building block kind of
thing was It's a good way to putit.

Bryan (01:00:37):
How was that for you guys once you got on the ground or I
guess into the water?

Vincent (01:00:40):
That specific mission, was challenging on the medical
side, that one. And I'm notgonna talk about specific
details for that. For sure.Well, guess for this one was as
soon as we leave the plane, wedon't know how we're going to
get back. That's the thing withWinnipeg.

(01:01:02):
So we don't have yellow tosupport us. So you get out, you
don't know how long and youdon't know what you're going to
get into. This one was specialin my mind because we had flow
plane extraction. Oh. So it'salways a different way to get
out of those missions.
Like the three missions that'sthe three jumps that summer was

(01:01:24):
different extraction platform,to load a critical patient into
the back of a Cessna one seventytwo when you're getting promise
a beaver. Yeah. Kinda brings abit of a challenge.

Bryan (01:01:37):
Yeah. A bit of a different size.

Vincent (01:01:38):
When you gotta fold the seat and kinda shove that person
in the back, not ideal, but youhave to get people out. Yep.
Yep. So you can't You need toimprovise. That was a big lesson
learned for me is you you gottaimprovise and and then make
decision on the fly.

Bryan (01:01:54):
Okay. So, Vince, you've also rescued people from crashed
aircraft before the Air Tindicrash. Can you tell us a story
about one of those experiences?

Vincent (01:02:02):
Yeah. Plane crash are are unfortunately, it's not
always positive outcome. Butthere are some that people
survive incredible crash and youjust don't understand how they
walk out of it. Same summertwenty twenty three, had a
floorplane crash just north ofjust east of Lake Winnipeg in

(01:02:22):
the bush. That was my first opsjump as a team leader with a
brand new guy.
No, that was a second op jump,but still it was not super
experienced. And then it was atwenty minute flight from
Winnipeg. It was very short.Everything was really on the

(01:02:43):
ground. We did we did that intwo pass.
First pass, we dropped a smoke.Second pass, we did a confined
jump at 2,000 feet because weknow that we had confirmation
that the plane just there was asurvivor. So we got it there
quick. And then stars came andpick us up after we, stabilized

(01:03:04):
the patient. We were, back inWinnipeg for dinner.
Yeah, that doesn't happen oftenhere in Winnipeg. That's a good
outcome. Still talk to thatpilot, that survivor. You'll see
later. I just tend to leave themmy number if they want to reach
back.
Because it's a bit of atraumatic experience for both,

(01:03:26):
for the survivor and for us.Don't have patients like that
every day. That's a story wealways remember. Yes, still talk
to him to this day. Great guy.

Bryan (01:03:36):
That's awesome.

Vincent (01:03:37):
Just unfortunate. Yeah. Well, fortunate. He survived.

Bryan (01:03:41):
Unfortunate that he had to crash.

Vincent (01:03:43):
That he crashed.

Jason (01:03:44):
Yeah. I remember I wasn't I wasn't flying that day, but I
was just at the hangar at workand pretty sure we saw the
helicopter come back with ourSartex before our own our own
Herc even got back.

Bryan (01:03:54):
Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Like you said, that must be
rare.

Vincent (01:03:57):
That's, yeah. That's that's another long story for
another podcast. But basicallywhat happened is that plane
crashed. He had all the bellsand whistles. He he built his
own flow plane with glasscockpit four zero six.
Which is a rescue beacon. That'sright. He had he had he's flying
with the helicopter helmet on.He was flying with the survival

(01:04:19):
vest and he had a radio on plusa spot beacon. And he was going
from The States all the way upto Fort Smith.
And then mechanical problemhappened and then he had to
force land into rock, basicallybush and rock. What's it called?
Canadian Shield. And then hebroadcast May Day a floor plan

(01:04:42):
in the area, which end up it'sPaul. He's an old military pilot
flying Sea Kings now for stars,now flying for a flying school
near Winnipeg.
So anyway, he heard the May Dayand then he he was circling the
plane as we came in. And he washe called RCC directly to get us

(01:05:06):
there. We executed the missionjump. And then stars, of course,
didn't have any any room intheir small helicopter to pick
us up. Well, Paul landed hisfloat plane, grab a civilian
helicopter, and came back topick us up.
Stars took off, and Paul landed.We jump jumped in, and he landed

(01:05:29):
us right on the ramp in front ofthe Angry Door and came for a
coffee

Bryan (01:05:32):
with us.

Vincent (01:05:32):
That's amazing. That guy's amazing.

Bryan (01:05:34):
Wow. What did you learn from that mission that helps you
with the Air Tindi crash?

Vincent (01:05:39):
Again, scene management comes. This one was very
dynamic. It was quick. Also riskassessment to pick up the
landing area for us. We did itvery quick.
Hindsight, I wish I had askedfor a second pass. I told you I
was very proud to do it in twopass. Hindsight may be taking

(01:06:02):
more time, which we use thatduring the Air Tindi. And, yeah,
communication.

Bryan (01:06:13):
Okay. So as we wrap up, we're going to ask you a few
questions that we always ask ourguests. What is the biggest
thing each of you do to stayready to do your job?

Jason (01:06:22):
I think it's just preparation. A lot of the basic
stuff we learn throughout flyingtraining, trying to make sure
I'm physically, mentally readyto fly whenever I'm on any type
of posture. Anytime we can beexpect to put in like an
eighteen hour crew day. Sowhether that starts at two in
the morning or nine in themorning. So you have to be in
some kind of space where you'reable to able to do that.

(01:06:45):
And other than that, it'sroutine. From when I first
started flying training untilnow, I look at the weather the
same way. I kind of am able togo through all the weather and
the NOTAMs and stuff for ourentire AOR and get a good
picture of what's going on. Justgets you ahead. So when you get
tasked and they say, oh, there'sa plane crash or wherever.

(01:07:07):
You know, I might not know theexact ceilings in that location,
but I've looked at the weatherin the last few hours and like,
yeah, that's where it's badweather up there. I know what's
going be a concern again. Ialready feel like I'm ahead of
the tasking. So that routine.Like even if I'm on standby in
the weekend or something, it'snot like I'm sitting there for
hours and hours looking at theweather.
But get up in the morning, havemy coffee, go through my We have

(01:07:30):
our iPads we use for flight.I'll take ten minutes, get all
the packages I need on my iPadand go through the entire AOR
and make sure I'm just preparedfor whatever comes. It's
probably the daily routine. Dothe same thing every day the
same way every day and justbecomes second nature.

Bryan (01:07:47):
What about you, Vince?

Vincent (01:07:48):
Well, couple of things. First, all of us stay very fit
physically. That helps with whatyou need to do on the ground but
also for fatigue. The otherthing is, again, the way I train
people around me and myself. Iwant to make sure I'm ready for

(01:08:08):
every single scenario.
And the last thing I would say,it sounds a bit cheesy, but I
visualize a lot of things. I tryto forecast as many scenario as
possible and take them through,especially before I'm about to
jump into something like that.

Jason (01:08:27):
Yeah. I would actually add to that. That was my The
Airtendi mission was my firstplane crash in the Arctic. But
it wasn't the first time I'dthought about that. And a lot of
times you just kind of look atalmost an area on the map and be
like, how would I handle that?
How would we get there? Whatkind of fuel do we take? What's

(01:08:49):
around there for airports? AndI'm sure you kind of do the same
thing maybe. How would youhandle that situation on the
ground weather?
So a lot of the places we go,although it's the first time
that specific scenario we gotinto, we've either talked about
it or on our own, we've justkind of walked through how we
would handle that.

Vincent (01:09:06):
That's good training you can do without burning any
fuel.

Jason (01:09:09):
Yeah. Yep. On a ground train, they will get a couple
pilots, Sartex, pick a point ona map and just plane crash
there. What do we do? And wejust walk through everything
from from our end, how much fuelwe want, Sartex, what kind of
gear they'd want.
You just can talk through awhole mission. Takes a couple
hours if you really go throughit. Yeah.

Bryan (01:09:27):
Yeah. We used to do sort of similar stuff with the
Aurora, called a tabletop Yeah.Tabletop exercise. And you just
walk your way through and for usin any submarine scenario or
what have you. And it is it'svery valuable.
So I don't think it's cheesy atall. The visualization or
walking through rehearsal, thatkind of stuff, those are all
keys to success that you'll hearfrom special forces people,

(01:09:48):
advanced pilots. And I think Ithink a lot of successful people
in dynamic trades use thatstuff.

Jason (01:09:54):
And you throw a you throw a problem in, you know. Okay. We
got our whole plan. What if thathappened right there?

Bryan (01:10:00):
Contingency planning. Yep. Yep. So, Jason, what do you
think makes a great SAR pilot?

Jason (01:10:07):
Yes. A SAR pilot in particular. It starts from that
base level proficiency withaircraft, procedural knowledge,
aircraft knowledge, all all thatstuff. That's gonna be common
for any type of pilot, I'd say.Something particular for SAR
pilots.
I mean, add like flexibility.Vince and I were talking about
this little runway here. Almostevery mission or even training

(01:10:29):
day we do, like somethinghappens that changes. Like
nothing ever goes to plan. A lotof the times we'll have a good
plan, we're going to go dosomething.
Then some small detail changes.Maybe the weather's different.
Maybe there's some other assetout there that we didn't know
about. Maybe it's something withour own aircraft. And it makes
it so that whole plan you justspent like half an hour working

(01:10:52):
through, it's just completelyinvalid now.
You got to pivot a whole newwhole new thing you're going do.
And then maybe something changesagain and you have to pivot
back. So it's just not being arigid thinker and just being
flexible, being able to adapt tomany changes during the course
of admission. Think that's key.

Bryan (01:11:10):
Okay. Vince, what do you think makes a great Sartech?

Vincent (01:11:16):
I would say someone that can stay calm under
pressure. Picture yourself atthe as the aircraft commander,
and you have a team lead in theback seat that you don't see
what's going on back there. Andhe's trying to tell you that it
is safe to jump with two newguys at night in an arctic
blizzard. You need a guy that'spretty calm and collected to

(01:11:38):
sell you that plan for you tosign off on it. So that goes in
the plane and on the ground, Iwould say, yeah, being calm in
chaos.

Bryan (01:11:46):
Was that for a good STAR pilot or a good STAR tech?

Vincent (01:11:49):
Both. Both. Imagine, as the aircraft commander, if you
start freaking out because youdon't like it, people in the
back seat will not like it. Iassure you that. So I know when
Jay and I are flying together,it's always a calm conversation,
but it's not our only ideas.
We kind of think out loud, asthe crew around us because a lot

(01:12:11):
of people have experience andhave good ideas. And then for me
on the ground or in the back,especially for Jake, being able
to make a decision and live with

Jason (01:12:24):
it. Because

Vincent (01:12:25):
we look at all the facets of the mission. Okay,
this is what we're going to do.Let's execute now after we
discuss it. Yeah. Sometimes agood

Jason (01:12:35):
thing on missions is usually it's the AC and the team
lead for the most part that arecoming up with the bulk of the
plan. But everyone contributes.And sometimes what I'll do is I
think we got a pretty good planand how how we want to attack
something. I'll just if you justthrow the question out there,
hey, does anyone have any otherideas? And you just leave it
open like that.
You'd be surprised it could besomeone on the crew that you

(01:12:55):
wouldn't even think they'll comeup with something that's really,
really good. So just create thatenvironment. It works really
well.

Bryan (01:13:02):
Yeah. And you never know. You mentioned people have
different backgrounds. Like younever know, like, oh, this guy
might have a degree or diplomaor something and something that
you don't even know about that'ssomehow adjacent to the task
you're doing or they may havesome training in something that
you didn't know they had orwhatever. And before you know
it, like, they've come up with agreat idea.

Jason (01:13:21):
Yeah. We did a mission up north in our a couple last last
fall. It was the same kind ofthing. Like our Turns out our
flight engineer was like fromthat area. Yeah.
And he never He didn't reallysay much. Then next thing you
know, he's just throwing up thislocal knowledge about that area
and it's like, Wow, it's reallygood.

Bryan (01:13:39):
Yeah, it's useful. What advice would each of you give to
a new member of your trade inthe SAR community?

Vincent (01:13:46):
Sometimes it's better not say a thing and keep your
ears open. Keep your mouth shutand listen.

Bryan (01:13:57):
What about you, Jay?

Jason (01:14:00):
Yeah. I would say just for upgrading, it's really the
product of probably hundreds ofdaily efforts. You got to be
doing something every day justto get a little bit better. You
can't let weeks get away fromyou where you didn't accomplish
something in either gettingbetter flying, You got to be

(01:14:24):
putting those daily efforts in.It all adds up if you do that.

Bryan (01:14:29):
Yeah, absolutely. I had someone tell me once like, even
if you put in like two hours aday

Jason (01:14:34):
Yep. Just get better at something.

Bryan (01:14:36):
Be eight hours a day destroying yourself in the
books. But you put in a couplesolid hours a day of learning
and you're gonna be by the timeit's time to upgrade, you're
gonna be ready.

Jason (01:14:46):
Yeah. Like, some of our guys who show up to work, if
you're not on the schedule thatday and you're not busy, you
know, why not grab someone elseand go down to the plane? Why
not go just find a random startech and see if they can talk to
you about some gear? There'salways something you can do to
just get a little bit better.

Bryan (01:15:00):
Yeah. Absolutely. Okay, guys. That's going do it for
part one of this chat. I'mreally looking forward to the
next one where we'll talk aboutthe Air Tindi rescue.
Jason and Vince, thanks forbeing here today and I'm looking
forward to the next one.
Okay. That wraps up our chat with Jason and Vince about
their time in the trainingsystem as well as some of their
operational experiences. For ournext episode, tune in as we

(01:15:23):
discuss the Air Tindi crash andrescue on 12/27/2023. Do you
have any questions or commentsabout anything you've heard in
this show? Would you or someoneyou know make a great guest, or
do you have a great idea for ashow?
You can reach out to us at [e-mail] or
on all social media at at podpilot project. And be sure to

(01:15:43):
check out that social media forlots of great videos of our RCAF
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Thanks for listening. Keep theblue side up. See you. Engineer,

(01:16:07):
shut down all four. Shuttingdown all four engines.