Episode 73: The LIFT: Lead-In Fighter Training in Italy and flying the CF-18 Hornet and the T-346 Master Part 3 - Eli

In Part 3 of our LIFT series, new RCAF pilot Eli shares his path from RMC to flying the T-346 Master in Italy’s International Flight Training School.

He talks about early training on the Grob and Harvard II, a unique posting to CFS Alert, and the challenge of fast-jet training in Sardinia. From dogfighting, radar intercepts, and close air support to the physical and mental demands of becoming a fighter pilot, Eli gives us a rare student’s perspective on preparing for the CF-18 Hornet.

If you’ve ever wondered what it takes to earn your wings and fly fighters for Canada, this is the episode for you.

Episode Transcript

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Bryan (00:58):
Alright. We're ready for departure here at the pilot
project podcast, the best sourcefor stories and advice from RCAF
and mission aviation pilotsbrought to you by Sky's
Magazine. I'm your host, BrianMorrison. With me today is Eli,
a captain and pilot in the RCAFand recent graduate of lead in
fighter training or LIFT inItaly. Eli, you might be my
first listener to become aguest, so welcome to the show.

Eli (01:19):
Hi, Brian. Really happy to be here.

Bryan (01:22):
So today, we'll be talking about Eli's career so
far in the RCAF and hisexperiences flying the lead in
fighter training course inItaly. But before we jump into
any of that, let's go throughEli's bio. Eli was born in
Prince George BC, but spent hisformative years in Kelowna. He
grew up loving to travel and wasfascinated by airplanes, so he
thought being a pilot would be aneat way to see the world. The

(01:42):
interior of BC has very littlemilitary presence, it wasn't
until a trip to Europe to visitthe Canadian battlefields of
World War one and World War twothat he developed a strong
desire to serve and so becominga pilot via the military became
his new goal.
Eli joined the RCAF in 2015under the regular training plan
and studied physics and spacescience at RMC. Following his

(02:03):
second year, he had theopportunity to travel to Ireland
for the summer to OJT at theInternational Space University's
space studies program. Afterthird year, he completed phase
one training on the Globe inPortage La Prairie. In 02/2019,
he graduated from RMC and wasposted to four two nine
transport squadron for OJT whileawaiting phase two. While his

(02:23):
weight was supposed to berelatively short, it quickly
ballooned to over two years dueto COVID and so in the
intervening time period, he hadthe opportunity to work in CFS
Alert for over four months andcomplete a graduate certificate
in human factors.
He was posted to two CFFTS inMoose Jaw in July 2021, but due
to some residual delays from thepandemic, Eli did not finish

(02:44):
phase two until April 2023before being selected to proceed
onto phase three Harvardtraining. Eli graduated with his
wings in December 2023 followinga very intense month of training
in the inaugural Jaw Southdetachment in San Angelo, Texas.
Following phase two, Eli wasinitially streamed to be a first
assignment instructor pilot onthe Harvard, but thanks to a

(03:05):
fortunate combination of timing,luck, and hard work was provided
the opportunity to attend leadin fighter training in
Decimomano, Italy on the t threeforty six. After ten demanding
yet very enjoyable months insunny Sardinia, he graduated in
April 2025 and is awaitingfollow on training on the CF 18
Hornet. Now just a note forlisteners, we're calling this

(03:25):
part three of our three partseries on the LIFT program.
You can listen to parts one andtwo to hear major Brian Humza
Kilroy, a CF eighteen fighterpilot and instructor in Italy,
talk about his experiences bothin his career and all about the
lift program. For this episode,we'll be getting these students'
perspective. So let's talk aboutyour early days. We touched on

(03:47):
this in your bio, but whatsparked your interest in
aviation as a career?

Eli (03:52):
Yeah, Brian. Like you mentioned, I did some travel
when I was younger, mostly justaround BC. But every time we
would go flying, I just thoughtgetting to hop on a seven thirty
seven was the coolest thingever. Right? And so being a
pilot, doing that full timeseemed pretty neat.
Not to mention getting to travelas part of your job. It seemed

(04:13):
really interesting and just agreat opportunity. And then as
well, when I was 15, a localPilots Association in Kelowna
put on an event for kids wherethey took us up for discovery
flights. So, I got to go for aride in the Cessna. I was the
oldest guy there by probablynine years.
It was me and seven year oldsflying around. But it was really

(04:35):
cool. It kind of showed me whatit takes to get an airplane
airborne. And so, it really Ithink, excited me a little bit
more than just sitting in theback, seeing it from the
passenger side.

Bryan (04:49):
Yeah. It kind of takes it from like a magical experience,
like, that you're kind ofdisconnected from. Like, the
plane plane goes up and you'reoff on your journey to actually
seeing the skills that make itall happen.

Eli (05:02):
Yeah. Absolutely. You know, seeing him go through his
checklist, you know, getting tofly a little bit, you know,
point plane left, point planeright. It was really cool. Yeah,
really interesting.

Bryan (05:15):
So you traveled to Europe and it left you feeling inspired
to serve your country. Can youtell us about that and why you
didn't join the military rightaway at that point?

Eli (05:23):
Yeah. Touring the battlefields is a really
emotional experience. You'restanding on the hollowed
grounds, where so many youngyoung men fought, and died, you
know, standing, for what Canadarepresents as a nation. Really
brought in perspective how luckyI am and we all are for the
rights we have as Canadians. Ispecifically remember standing
on the grave of this 14 year oldkid who died in France.

(05:48):
And it made me question, as a 16year old, who am I? Why
shouldn't I do my part to serveCanada? And I of knew I wanted
to be a pilot, and thisinterested me in military
aviation. I was considering thecivilian side, but we couldn't
afford it. It's an expensiveendeavor to do on your own.

(06:11):
But I knew the military wouldpay for it if could get in. The
thing was, when it came time toapply, I was 17, and the
contract you had to sign wasthirteen years. It was too much
for me to sign that contract atthe time. So I kind of figured,
you know what? I'm going to goto a civilian university.

(06:32):
I'll go get a degree inengineering. And if I change my
mind, I still have a job. Let mybrain mature a little bit, and
see if this is something thatI'm really ready, to commit to.
Because it's it's a big, it's abig decision for sure.

Bryan (06:47):
It is. And I think that shows some maturity that you
actually kind of realized thatat age 17. I will say I was 20
when I signed up. And I thinkfor me, I had a twelve year
contract. And I was like, I wasquite intimidated at 20 to to do
that.
It is an intimidating thing whenyou sign on the dotted line for

(07:09):
over a decade of service for ashot at a career that you're not
sure if you're even gonna makeit through the training. So I
could definitely see where youwere coming from at that point.
So initially, you pursuedcivilian education, but you felt
unfulfilled by this path anddecided to join the CAF and
attend RMC. Can you tell us whatended up bringing you back to

(07:30):
that military path?

Eli (07:33):
Yeah. Funny. Turns out engineering is really, really
hard. And I didn't really havethe self discipline to fully
engage with those studies. So Iwasn't very successful.
It was a pretty big shock comingfrom high school. I had fairly
good grades back then, but itrequired a whole new level of
work that I just was not readyfor. And so that was pretty

(07:54):
demotivating, especially since Istill felt that tug, that call
to service. I didn't feel likewhat I was doing was really
getting me any closer to my whatwas becoming more clearly my
goals. Ultimately, I knew acouple of folks who had gone to
RMC or either there orgraduated.
And so I chatted with them abit, and their experiences
really excited me. It seemedlike it was much more aligned

(08:17):
with my personal motivations.Not to mention I figured a
little bit of externalmotivation and discipline would
probably help me in succeedingin post secondary education. So
I dropped out of school, took ayear off, and devoted myself to
the application process andreally just tried my best to to

(08:39):
have a shot at pursuing this asa career.

Bryan (08:41):
Yeah. First question on that, were you worried at all
that dropping out of universitywould hurt your chances at
getting in?

Eli (08:49):
Absolutely. Yeah. That was a a big because I always hear
how competitive the the pilottrade is. And I was acutely
aware that it might not work,and I might not I might not get
accepted. So I was pursuing someother avenues on the side.
But at the time, they let youwrite a essay about why you

(09:12):
think you'd be a good fit. Andso I poured my heart into that
thing. I had 10 different peopleedit it. And I had a fairly good
record aside from my time atCivilian University. So I think
the combination of those thingskinda worked in my favor.

Bryan (09:27):
The other thing that you said that I like is you talked
about external motivators.Basically, it sounded like
you're kind of saying thediscipline of the military would
help keep you on the rails. Ithink the military is full of
people who really thrive in thatenvironment where a little bit
of structure is really good forus. I know I was one of those
people.

Eli (09:47):
Absolutely. Yeah. When I showed up for, you know, BMO Q,
basic, it was quite the cultureshock as I'm sure it is for
everyone. But every day, I waslike, this is this is where I'm
supposed to be. This is the typeof environment I think, I should
be in.
And so I think it was it was agood decision to join for me
personally.

Bryan (10:07):
That's awesome. What studies did you decide to pursue
at RMC and why?

Eli (10:14):
Yeah. So after figuring out the hard way that engineering
wasn't for me, I decided tostudy physics and space science.
It's a unique program, one ofits kind in Canada, essentially
focused on teaching thefundamentals of space
applications in low Earth orbit.So you take courses in things
like orbital mechanics,satellite design, space weather,

(10:37):
remote sensing, which isessentially using satellites to
look at the earth, and get dataabout things like crop yield,
ice melt, that kind of thing.I've always found space super
fascinating.
I think it's one of humanity'sgreatest endeavors, both from a
perspective of the value ofexploration for exploration's
sake, any incredible scientificand economic value it provides,

(11:01):
to us back on Earth that I'm notsure everyone's fully aware of.

Bryan (11:04):
Yeah. Space, it's fascinating what a large topic
it is and how much it affectsour everyday lives. By the time
this interview airs, we'll haverecently aired a three part
series with Erin Edwards who isa Capcom. She's a Canadian
Forces pilot, but she's a Capcomdown in Houston with NASA. And

(11:25):
talking to her for a few hourswas, like, eye opening.
Like, it's it's an amazing it'samazing work they do down there
and it's crazy how much itaffects everyday life.

Eli (11:36):
That is that is so cool. I've heard a little bit about
her and her job seemsincredible. I'm really excited
to listen to that podcast.

Bryan (11:43):
Yeah. She, she's an amazing person. She is so
interesting to talk to and tolisten to and very, very
passionate about, what she does.But, back to you. RMC can be
pretty polarizing.
What was your experience likethere?

Eli (11:58):
Yeah. RMC, it's certainly a place that can cause some pretty
extreme emotions, I'll say.Yeah. It was probably the
hardest thing I'd done in mylife up until that point. It
challenged me a lot as a person.
As you can imagine, you know, ifyou're fully engaged in school,
you've got a midterm first thingin the morning. Calculus, it's

(12:20):
pretty hard. But surprise,you've got a big inspection the
next morning for no particularreason. So it's 11:00 at night
and you're polishing your beltbuckle and ironing your socks
and stuff. So there hard days.
That being said, was reallyrewarding. I had some really
incredible opportunities while Iwas there. I got to climb

(12:42):
mountains with the exhibitionclub. I got to go to Ireland at
OJT, which I think we're goingto discuss a bit later. I got a
pretty unique degree that I'mreally passionate about.
I made lifelong friends. So Ihave absolutely no regrets for
going there. I will say RMC asan institution is evolving a lot
right now. So my experiences arenot going to be similar to the

(13:03):
ones that people are having now.That being said, I don't if
people ask me if they should ifthey should go, I don't
recommend it to everyone.
It's for certain people. And soI try and have a good discussion
with them about why they wannago.

Bryan (13:19):
Mhmm. What kind of people do you think? You say it's for
certain people. Like, what kindof people do you think?

Eli (13:24):
That's a tough question. I think for people that just wanna
go and have a universityexperience, it's certainly not
for them. It's for people thatwant, like me, a little bit of
military discipline to kindahelp them through and people
that are really interested in inservice, would say. Because a

(13:44):
lot of the times, the thingsyou're doing, there isn't a
whole lot of rhyme or reasonoutside of I'm doing this to
serve, you know?

Bryan (13:53):
Yeah. So you hinted at this already. After second year,
you had a really uniqueopportunity and went to Ireland
for the summer for OJT. You wentto the International Space
University's space studiesprogram. Can you tell us about
that experience?

Eli (14:09):
Yeah. So the International Space University, it's an
institution based in France. Itputs on a number of programs.
The one I attended is called thespace studies program. They put
it on every year.
It's nine weeks long, and it'sin a different location around
the world, every year. Itfocuses on the interdiscipline
interdisciplinary nature ofspace and covers topics, space

(14:34):
engineering, space law andbusiness, human performance in
space, you know, astronautstuff. I'm not sure if it's the
exchange still exists, but whenI was a student, they would send
two cadets out there everysummer to work as IT techs. So
you're basically, you know,running cables, setting up

(14:54):
PowerPoints, managing emails,that kind of stuff. It's pretty
good.
It was a pretty good valueproposition for both
institutions because themilitary, you know, they paid
our salary, flew us out there,and we got a really great
experience that led us toperform better in school. And

(15:14):
ISU got two really motivatedworkers and all they had to
provide was food and board. Itwas, just an incredible
opportunity. I got to meet somany cool people, dozen
astronauts, including thelegendary, Canadian doctor Bob
Thursk. I got to sit in onlectures from leaders from NASA

(15:36):
and ESA because the whole thewhole thing is that if you're
not busy, if you're not activelydoing work, you can go sit on
any lecture, participate in anyactivity, in this program that
is usually quite selective toattend.

Bryan (15:51):
Wow. What an opportunity.

Eli (15:53):
Yeah. It was it was awesome. It's also kind of a a
funny first example of me beingin the wrong place at the right
time because that year, therewas three OJT spots for students
in the space science program.One was working with the USF
doing satellite kind of designand management at the Air Force
Academy. And they wanted theperson with the best grades, the

(16:17):
smartest guy because it seemedlike it was gonna be pretty
intense.
And then, the two other guys gotto go to Ireland. I fortunately
wasn't, wasn't the smartest, youknow, cookie in the pile. I
don't know if that's a saying.But, so I got the, the worst
deal and got to go to Ireland,which I'm still pretty happy
about. As far as I'm aware, theair force or the military still

(16:39):
sends one person engaged inthree Canadian space division
out to do the program every yearbecause the the military sees so
much value in it.

Bryan (16:48):
Yeah. Space is such a domain of growing importance,
and you can see our militarytaking it more and more
seriously every year. Let's talka bit about your early flight
training. You attended phase oneflight training on The Grove
after a third year in 02/2018.How did you feel as you arrived
for your first flight trainingcourse in the RCAF?

Eli (17:09):
Yeah. So much, anticipation. After aircrew
selection, it's really yourfirst shot at seeing if you can
actually do the job. Right? Andthat weighed on me a lot, flying
out there for sure.

Bryan (17:21):
Yeah. Did you find that you had a lot of like self
induced pressure, as a result ofthat or

Eli (17:27):
Yeah, absolutely. You know, it was at that point I'd
dedicated three years of my lifeto having this opportunity and
to I'd always heard how hard itwas and the risk of failure is
is real. And so, you know, itwas kind of like, do I get to
keep doing this job or do I haveto pivot and do something else?

Bryan (17:43):
Yeah. Yeah, that's tough. Like that's one thing that is
really challenging about yourearly flight training in the
forces is that backgroundknowledge and awareness that
this is my career and if Idon't, you know, if I fail two
flights in a row, that could beit. Right?

Eli (17:59):
Yeah. Absolutely.

Bryan (18:01):
So you're always kinda it's sort of this weird
dichotomy that you you need tostay aware of that and take it
seriously, but at the same time,like you can't fixate on it.

Eli (18:11):
Yeah. Absolutely. I I do appreciate though that, you
know, your success is almostentirely in your hands. Mhmm. So
while it's a lot of pressure andstress, you have a lot of
agency, which is nice.

Bryan (18:23):
Yeah. I I agree with that for sure. What was your first
impression of flight training inthe RCAF?

Eli (18:30):
Very demanding. It's very fast paced, but it's also
delivered by, you know, trueprofessionals who really care
about your success. I didn'tknow anything about flying.
Like, I had to stop a lecturemidway through because they were
talking about the the trafficpattern, and I didn't know what
a downwind leg was. And soyou're starting from from first

(18:52):
principles.
But they really structure it toget you from knowing absolutely
nothing to soloing in a fewweeks, which I thought was
really impressive.

Bryan (19:03):
It is pretty amazing to think that because like a lot of
the time I I hear from guestslike, oh, yeah. I was in air
cadets or I my parents set me upwith a few lessons or whatever.
But the the program is designedfor and does regularly take
people who have absolutely noflying experience and turn them
into pilots within a matter ofweeks. Like, that's pretty

(19:25):
amazing. If you talk to I thinkif, like, the average person
walked in off the street andtalked to a student, a phase one
student who was, like, a monthin, they'd be pretty impressed
with the amount of knowledgethey've soaked up in that month.

Eli (19:38):
Yeah. Absolutely. I certainly leaned on my, air
cadet and private pilot licensecolleagues during the course,
just getting that, you know,corporate knowledge that wasn't
directly taught. But I thinkthat's present throughout flight
training. You know?

Bryan (19:54):
100%. Yeah. That's a community flight training is a
community based style oflearning or it should be when
you're doing it in its bestform. Different people pick up
on different things. Differentpeople learn different things
and make different mistakes whenthey're flying.
And you just learn from that.Right?

Eli (20:13):
Yeah. We don't we don't have all the time to make all
the mistakes and learn all thelessons on our own.

Bryan (20:19):
That's right. How did phase one go for you overall?

Eli (20:24):
You know, good enough, I'll say. It was a real challenge. I
was working harder than Ithought was possible at the
time. It's just such a massivechange and a real culture shock
to go from the post secondaryschool type learning, all theory
to flight training where it'stheory, theory, and then you got
to go do it. Right?

Bryan (20:43):
It is a big change. It's for a lot of people, it's the
first, like, very practicalprofessional course they put
their hands on. So it is a hugechange from all the theory of
school. And then finally, youknow, there's still a theory to
learn, but you're gonna put yourhands on and actually do it.

Eli (21:01):
Yeah. When I first showed up, they kinda described it as
it's like being there inmidterms in university, but then
also being in, like, hockeyplayoffs at the same time
because you just have to there'sso much pressure, and you have
to physically perform at alltimes. Yeah. Because it just
like you said on phase one, youknow, you're two bad flights
away from doing something else.

Bryan (21:22):
So you graduated from RMC with honors, and you were posted
to four two nine TransportSquadron in Trenton, Ontario.
Initially, you were expecting ashort wait, but the world had
other plans. Can you tell usabout that?

Eli (21:33):
Yeah. So when I graduated, it was supposed to be six to
nine months of waiting, which ispretty standard at the time. But
as we all know, COVID happened.And so that ballooned and ended
up being, two years on OJTthere. It was actually a pretty
cool opportunity, super bigbummer at the time.
But just being able to work atfour two nine, which has such a

(21:54):
cool mission, really opened myeyes to just the complexities of
flying a multi engine aircraftaround the world. And while I
was always very driven to flyjets, it certainly made me a
little bit more open to the ideaof flying something else.
Everyone in the Air Force, everypilot that I've spoken to thinks

(22:15):
their job's the best. And a lotof the a lot of the folks in
Trenton really convinced me ofthat.

Bryan (22:22):
Yeah. I think that that is a really important truth that
man, we've said this so manytimes, but there is no bad
cockpit in the air force to endup in. Like, they're all the
like you said, everybody thinksthey have the best job and how
can that be how can that beunless they're all great jobs?

Eli (22:41):
Absolutely. Talking to my friends that are out flying
operationally now, it's likethey all they all, you know,
they razz me, I razz them. Yeah.Of course. Because, you know, we
all have the best job.

Bryan (22:52):
Yep. Yep. So this delay actually led to another amazing
opportunity for you working atCFS Alert, the northernmost
continuously inhabited place inthe world. What were your
experiences up there like?

Eli (23:06):
CFS Alert is an incredible, incredible place. When I was
waiting for phase two, an emailcame out asking for someone to
volunteer and work up work upthere. I didn't really know a
whole lot about it at the time,but, one of the things about
that seemed cool to me aboutjoining the military was that
you could get to go do theseneat things that no one else

(23:28):
could. So I applied, wasfortunately selected, and it was
a really great, greatexperience. I was a projects
officer up there, whichbasically meant I worked on
procurement.
You're also one of only roughlythree commissioned officers up
there. So you get some other,assorted officer type tasks
that, my eight month old secondlieutenant Stripe was certainly

(23:51):
not prepared for. But, itdefinitely showed me that you
can fill the shoes that areissued to you. You know what I
mean?

Bryan (24:00):
Yeah.

Eli (24:03):
But I showed up in February. It was completely
dark, and I got to watch thesunrise for the first time in
months. And Alert holds a partyevery time the sun rises and
every time the sun sets for anextended period of time, which
was pretty cool. I got to seepolar bears. Got to see Arctic

(24:23):
wolves.
Yeah. It's just a lot of thingsthat you never get to experience
living in the the relative Southof Canada. But, you know, I went
up there in February 2020. So inMarch, COVID really happened.
World grinded to a halt, whichfor us was actually pretty
benign at the start because theyessentially just halted all,

(24:48):
flights to alert, which is howwe get new people.
So we're able to keep the gymopen. We didn't have to self,
social distance. We had to gotto keep the bar open, which was,
I'm pretty sure, unique tounique in Canada. And that was
that was pretty nice. But theside effect of that was that we

(25:10):
couldn't get new people up.
So while the military is able toorder people to stay past their
end of tour date, the civiliancontractors up there, were not
required. And the civiliancontractors are responsible for
essentially all theinfrastructure up there. They're
absolutely essential to theoperation of the station. So
most of them stayed, and they'refantastic, fantastic people, but

(25:35):
some had to go home. So it endedup that all the military folks
just kinda ended up wearingfour, five, six, seven hats,
which was interesting kindaseeing the team come together in
this this adverse adversesituation.
So COVID was really terrible ina lot of ways and as everyone
knows. And I didn't really wannawait two years for training, but

(25:59):
I ended up getting to spend fourand a half months in alert, and
it's something I wouldn't tradefor the world.

Bryan (26:04):
How long were you supposed to be up there?

Eli (26:06):
Only three months.

Bryan (26:07):
Okay. So you got an extra month and a half?

Eli (26:09):
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Bryan (26:11):
Yeah. That must have been starting to get, pretty tiring
by the end of your time therewith, all the jobs everyone was
doing.

Eli (26:19):
Yeah. You were working really, really long days. And
it's hard up there becausethere's limited external
communications. So you havelimited, phone time. You get
like one thirty minute phonecall a day.
So maintaining relationshipswith, you know, family back home
was challenging for sure.

Bryan (26:38):
Yeah. That sounds I mean, that's like that's actually more
isolated than it was for me whenI went to The Middle East. Like,
I had unlimited phone calls andand video chat. And that was
provided, like, there was abunch of laptops and phones and
stuff you could use to callhome. And then eventually we had
WiFi and you could literallyjust FaceTime.

Eli (26:58):
Wow. That's awesome.

Bryan (26:59):
Yeah. Yeah. We've come a long way. It's it's crazy to
think that it's it was easier inin The Middle East than it was
in in in Alert.

Eli (27:09):
Yeah. Well, Alert is extremely isolated. The nearest
settlement is, like, 850kilometers away.

Bryan (27:16):
Wow.

Eli (27:16):
And it's, like, two hundred two hundred Inuit folks, I
think. Yeah. You're closer toMoscow than you are to Ottawa
when you're up there.

Bryan (27:24):
Wow. That's wild. Back to flight training. Finally, it was
time for you to attend phase twoflight training. How did you
find flying the Harvard two?

Eli (27:34):
The Harvard is a it's an awesome, awesome plane to fly.
It's really challenging, if youwanna do it well. But early on,
it's it's pretty forgiving andlets you learn the basics

Bryan (27:44):
Mhmm.

Eli (27:45):
Of how to be a pilot. But it's neat because as you as you
advance and start doing moremore difficult phases, it really
will challenge you to fly itwell.

Bryan (27:57):
Yeah. I agree with that. The Harvard is a super fun plane
to fly. It's very highperformance. In terms of, like,
the learning curve, I feel likeinitially, like you said, you
can improve pretty quickly andget a good grasp on how to fly
it.
But the finer points of reallyfinessing it are challenging for
sure. Like when you get intoform or low level navigation or

(28:20):
any of those things where youneed a lot more finesse and and
fine control, it it'schallenging for sure.

Eli (28:27):
Yeah. Even the instructor pilots that fly it full time
have to go up every month and,get, what they call mutual time
just so they can go and and getsome time on the stick and and
make sure their proficiency ishigh because it it fades so
quickly in that plane.

Bryan (28:43):
Yeah. Exactly. Did you have any particular challenges
while making your way throughphase two?

Eli (28:50):
Yeah. I, I failed my ICHT, the initial clear hood test, I
think is what it stands for. Itwas my second test, and I was
really beginning to realizegoing into that that I had
pretty significant test anxiety.It was really affecting my
performance. And this onlycompounded when it came to to

(29:11):
reflying the test Because aswe've discussed already, if you
failed two tests in a row,you've technically met course
failure criteria.
And so that can mean going onand doing something else. So it
was a very, very challengingperiod in my life. Mhmm. But

(29:31):
passing that retest was up thereon all time feelings of relief.

Bryan (29:35):
Yeah. No doubt. Anxiety and performance anxiety, test
anxiety is such a difficultthing when it comes to flying
because once it's once it's inthere, like, really have to you
can't just ignore it.Eventually, you have to find
some way of conquering it. Andit's such a very challenging

(29:56):
thing because once it's there,it's there.
Like, if it happens to you on aon a flight, you're probably
gonna experience that again. Soyou have to figure it out. So
how did you overcome that?

Eli (30:08):
Yeah. The experience really forced me to focus on
developing, the mental aspect ofmy my flying game, if you will.
Luckily, the air force hasrealized that this performance
and test anxiety is a verycommon experience in flight
training and being a pilot ingeneral. Right? Yeah.
So they've hired mentalperformance coaches in Moose Jaw

(30:29):
and in Portage La Prairie. Andso I began engaging with them a
lot more regularly. I alsostarted reading books on mental
performance, listening topodcasts, etcetera, because it
made me realize that, you know,mental fortitude and the ability
to handle these stressfulsituations is pretty similar to
physical fitness. And it needsto be regularly trained and

(30:50):
exercise. Right?
So I developed my own methods,helped me focus, be in the
moment, and believe that I couldovercome these these challenges.
I came up with a simple mantra.I always I still always say when
I step to a jet, it's calm,confident, ready. And the thing

(31:11):
is you can't just say thosethings. You know?
You have to have studied to beready. And if I had, if I felt
ready, then I go into the nextstep. I be, am I confident? Have
I chair flown this enough tofeel confident? And if I am
ready and I'm confident, then Ican be calm and believe that all

(31:34):
my preparation has set me up forsuccess on this.
And I think if you can sit downin a plane and strap it on and
feel some calm, you're justyou're gonna perform so much
better because that experiencetaking an airplane airborne in
the military anyways, it takesall of your focus.

Bryan (31:53):
Mhmm. Yeah, man. I have experienced both types of flying
in the military for sure. I havehad days where I was anxious or
nervous. And those are the dayswhere you overthink everything
and you see a light come on fora second.

(32:15):
You're like, does that alwayshappen? Like, you know, you
start to overthink everything. Ihad a I had a instrument check
one time in the King Air and Iwas almost at the runway and I
realized I hadn't put on myshoulder straps. You know, like
those are those days. And thenyou have days where you are
calm, confident, ready andeverything is just smooth as

(32:36):
smooth as butter, you know.
You could you couldn't make amistake if you tried. You're
thinking 10 steps ahead Andthose are the days that you want
to strive to obviously have havemore of.

Eli (32:51):
Yeah. Those are the days that make that make being a
pilot a real joy.

Bryan (32:56):
Absolutely. When you when everything is just coming
together and you are justcrushing it, it's such a amazing
feeling.

Eli (33:03):
Absolutely.

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us.

Bryan (33:55):
So you also learned a lot about physical preparedness on
this course, which may soundcounterintuitive to some because
the Harvard two is not toophysically demanding to fly. Can
you tell us about this?

Eli (34:05):
Yeah. So early on in phase two, we were made to participate
in a physical fitness program.It was designed and focused on
pilots, included some corestrength, compound body
movements, and neckstrengthening. It was Air Force
sponsored and included a studyassociated with it. And

(34:26):
initially, seemed prettyexcessive because the hardware
can pull, I think, six and ahalf, seven g's, but it bleeds
energy fairly quickly.
So, you know, the flights can bepretty draining, but it wasn't,
physically exhausting. And Ididn't see why we had to do this
whole physical, you know,training regimen, to go fly it.

(34:48):
But then step to, the Italianjet, the t three four six, which
can pull eight g's with ease. Itcan sustain four to five all day
long. And Wow.
By the way, while you're doingthat, you also are gonna be
expected to be looking behindyou because somebody is on your
tail trying to get you. So thoseflights, were where I wish I'd

(35:14):
taken the program a little bitmore seriously because the jet
certainly had more fight in it.It had more bite, but I had to
let off the gas, because, youknow, g lock, g induced loss of
consciousness is a real risk.And that really drove home the
importance of just beingphysically ready to do this job.

Bryan (35:33):
Yeah. You know, it's funny to I always admire fast
jet guys for the physical sideof the job that they're doing.
And because I remember I I had aI grayed out one time on the
Harvard because I just wasn'tready for a bit of g that came
on. It doesn't take much ifyou're not if you're not
straining. It doesn't take muchfor the blood to drain out of

(35:55):
your of your brain.
And and that kind of g strainingall the time and pulling, like
you said, you know, eight g zfour, five g sustain. That must
be exhausting.

Eli (36:07):
Yeah. Fortunately, it's kind of like a like everything
in the air force, it's a step bystep process. So I know you fly
the Grove, it pulls three g's.Then you fly the Harvard, it
pulls six. And then they sendyou away for, the g course where
you learn how to properly gstrain.
You're exposed to higher gloads. And then we had to do
another one to go to Italy,where you had to get exposed to

(36:30):
eight g's. And so it's a step bystep process and you just kinda
adapt to it. Right?

Bryan (36:34):
Yeah. That's crazy. If when you get exposed to eight
g's, is that those kind of thosevideos that you see online of
the people you're in, like, thatspinning machine basically and
they just whip you around untilyou're at eight g and you're
straining kind of thing? Or howdoes that work?

Eli (36:48):
Yeah. It's pretty uncomfortable. They they spin
you at eight g's for fifteenseconds. Wow. And you have to,
last or else you don't pass.

Bryan (36:57):
Do you have, like, g pants on or anything? Or is that
all with your own?

Eli (37:02):
Yeah. You wear g pants. Yeah. You wear g pants.

Bryan (37:05):
I'm I'm obviously kind of ignorant about what's possible
with and without that stuff. But

Eli (37:11):
I mean, I'm sure there's, fellas a little bit, more g
tolerant than I who could maybehack it, but I need the g pants.

Bryan (37:18):
Yeah. Yeah. That's fair. So you obviously made it through
phase two, and in the end, youwere selected jets. How did it
feel to make it that one stepcloser to your goals?

Eli (37:30):
Yeah, Brian. As I'm sure you can, relate, selection is is
such a big event. Right? It'sgot so much aura around it, and
I'm pretty sure every pilot cantell you something about their
selection day. So to finally getthere, it was a huge relief
because while I always wanted tofly jets, I had matured enough,
in my training to realize thatI'd be super happy to fly pretty

(37:51):
much anything in the Air Force.
And I was excited just to have apath forward. Yeah. What am I
gonna do with my career? Youknow? But that being said, being
told I was gonna get to continueto fly the Harvard was awesome.
The funny thing is that me andmy friends always talk about
this, is that, when you getselected to do phase three
Harvard, which both, FAPES forassignment instructor pilots and

(38:14):
jet pilots will do, it's just animmediate joy. But pretty
quickly afterwards, you realizelike, woah. Dang. I actually
have to go do phase threebecause Yeah. It only ever gets
harder with every course youcomplete.
And that was true with gettingselected to go to Italy. I was
like so stoked. And then it'slike, okay. Now I need to go

(38:35):
learn how to fly a jet. I needto learn how to go employ it
tactically.
And same with going on to flythe Hornet. It's awesome, but I
know it's gonna be harder thananything I've ever done.

Bryan (38:46):
For sure. Yeah. That's kind of the whole story of
military flight training. Right?Like and and I imagine that's
true to quite an extent in thecivilian world as well.
Like, you're always moving on tobigger and better things, and
that's super exciting. But atthe same time, the reality, you
know, comes home and and it'stime to to hit the books and and
really get to work.

Eli (39:05):
Yeah. Absolutely. There's no resting on your laurels in
our

Bryan (39:08):
business. No. So I don't know a lot about phase three
Harvard training. Can youbriefly outline the course for
us?

Eli (39:17):
Yeah. Absolutely. It's very similar to phase two, but they
just step up all the phases alittle bit and put a lot of
focus on airmanship and decisionmaking. The intent is to create
an instrument rated aircraftcaptain in a single pilot
environment. If you imaginephase two is like learning to
drive your mom's car.

(39:37):
You know, the basics, how toparallel park, drive on the
highway. Phase three is kind oflike ripping the doors off,
taking to the track and seeingif you can squeeze every ounce
of juice out of it. So what thatlooks like is, for example, in
Clear Hood, you do basicaerobatics, some straightforward
pattern work. On phase three,you'll max perform the aircraft
and do more complex pattern workthat's much more focused on

(40:00):
energy management. Forinstrument flying, on phase two,
you stay local.
You go to current Regina. Onphase three, you'll take it to
Harvard, to San Francisco,Vancouver. Formation flying, you
go from learning basics of,flying, on the wing of another

(40:21):
guy to flying, tactically, andhow to maneuver the aircraft
dynamically in relation toanother aircraft. And then that
ties into navigation, whichinstead of you doing it 500 feet
alone, you'll do with a partner.So you'll be a mile apart at 500
feet, navigate low leveltogether.
And then that all comestogether, in what they call a

(40:41):
composite phase where you'llcombine multiple different types
of missions into one, and you'reresponsible for executing any
top maneuver procedure safelyand legally. So you can take
off, go do a bit of a low levelnavigation route, then you have
to negotiate your way into theairspace, do some clear head
handling exercises, then you gomeet up with your friend, go fly

(41:05):
some formation, and then youmight come back for an
instrument approach. And thewhole thing is you have to,
yeah, do that without breakingany rules and also get back on
time.

Bryan (41:14):
That sounds really challenging.

Eli (41:18):
It is certainly a big challenge, but, you know, the
instruction we get is isexcellent, and they certainly
get you there. And the missionsare structured to to ensure your
success as well.

Bryan (41:30):
Yeah. Did you find that phase three was fairly
challenging or did it feel morelike a continuation of phase
two?

Eli (41:37):
It was definitely harder. The expectations are much
higher. And I was working longerand more focused hours than I
ever did on phase two. Yeah. Butthat being said, as we
discussed, I was reallyprioritizing my mental
performance and I had somereally awesome flying
continuity.
So I enjoyed phase three a lotmore than phase two.

Bryan (41:55):
Yeah.

Eli (41:56):
I was doing really hard things, but I felt ready to do
them. And so it was really fun.

Bryan (42:00):
Yeah. You kind of turn that corner mentally.

Eli (42:02):
Mhmm.

Bryan (42:03):
I know when you get to phase three in the multi world,
it feels like they treat youmore like an adult. Did you find
that was true in phase threeHarvard as well?

Eli (42:12):
Certainly. Yeah. It's you're almost completely
responsible for missionpreparation planning, and you
make almost all the decisionsairborne. When I first got,
started on phase three, myinstructor sat me down. He wrote
on the whiteboard.
He said, phase two is a plus bequals c. And underneath, he
wrote phase three is a plusquestion mark equals make it

(42:34):
happen. And so the expectationis just that you're going to
behave like an aircraft captainand execute a mission. Mhmm. So
during the trips, they will youknow, they'll teach you,
specific maneuvers.
They'll instruct you on on thatkind of stuff. But they'll let
you make a ton of terribledecisions and paint yourself
into a corner. Mhmm. And they'renot gonna say anything unless
you're gonna do something,unsafe or you're gonna break a

(42:55):
rule. And then you go learn inthe debrief.
Right?

Bryan (42:58):
Yeah. Those are the best mentors, the ones who know
exactly how much rope to giveyou where you can make your
mistakes and, like you said,paint yourself into a corner,
but nothing it doesn't get to apoint where it's unsafe.

Eli (43:09):
Yeah. Absolutely.

Bryan (43:12):
You got to earn your wings down in San Angelo, Texas
for the first Jaw Southdetachment. Moose Jaw students
are so used to flying in theexact same place all the time.
What was it like to flysomewhere else?

Eli (43:23):
Very overwhelming at first. The airport is a commercial
airport. Also, it's a civilianflying school. So there's a ton
of traffic and they're not usingthe standard radio calls you're
used to in Moose Jaw. You don'thave all the same references.
So developing situationalawareness of what's going on was
really challenging. But thereality of the job is that

(43:46):
you're going to have to flyplaces new. You have to adapt to
complex environments. So it wasreally cool to have the chance
to, you know, grow my bucket alittle bit in a relatively
controlled environment.

Bryan (43:59):
Yeah. It's nice that you got to do that pre wings as well
kind of before you're expectedto be the adult in the room.
Like, you had one last chance togo and like get this grow have
this growth experience. I know Iremember when I was in Moose
Jaw. Now this was phase twoobviously, so you're not you
guys obviously on the phasethree course, like you've said,
you're treated more like adultsand you make a lot more

(44:20):
decisions and stuff and you'vegot more experience.
But I remember on phase two,people would freak out if the
runway changed and it was like,oh, I've only flown on that
runway twice. And then now youfind yourself off in Texas, in a
totally different environment.So like, it's it must have been
quite something.

Eli (44:38):
Absolutely. I mean, I remember being like that on
phase two where you're

Bryan (44:41):
For sure.

Eli (44:42):
You study so hard for these exact parameters and then they
change on you, but being able toadapt so important. Right?

Bryan (44:48):
Oh, yeah. That's the the bread and butter of being a
pilot. So you were initiallystreamed to go FABES or first
assignment instructor pilot onthe Harvard, but it sounds like
there is a pretty good storybehind you ending up attending
lead in fighter training or liftin Italy. Can you tell us about
that?

Eli (45:04):
Yeah. I wish it was a better story, but it's just kind
of a combination of a bit ofhard work. Good luck in being in
the right place at the righttime. My grades coming out of
phase two were not the best. Sowhile I made the cut to continue
on the Harvard leadership,figured I could use some time as
a a FAPE, to develop a bit morebefore making a decision to go

(45:24):
on, to fly the CF 18.
I've only heard good thingsabout being a FAPE, but all my
friends that have done it havereally enjoyed their time. So
actually let me relax a lot onphase three because I didn't
feel like I had to fight my waythrough another selection. But
fortunately, you know, like wediscussed with the mental
performance and kind of thatrelaxed state, It allowed me to

(45:48):
perform quite a bit better onphase three than I did on phase
two, which opened the door forthat would allow me to continue
directly to flying fighters.That wouldn't have mattered
though if the Air Force hadn'tsecured two spots in Italy that
weren't forecast in the 2024.And I was lucky enough to just

(46:09):
be in the right place at theright time.
So it just kind of goes to showyou that this job is a lot of
it's a lot of hard work, butit's a lot of good timing and a
bucket of good luck.

Bryan (46:21):
Yeah. So many of my guests have talked about times
where just chance led them to anew opportunity. And sometimes
it's something that, you know,in this case, which is, like,
obviously exciting, like goingto a different country to do
fighter lead in fightertraining. Sometimes it's
something like, oh, crap. Inever wanted to go to this
place, and then it ends up beingan amazing experience.
So you really never know. Also,know that we are right now, as

(46:46):
as we don't have our own lead infighter training in Canada,
they're they're working veryhard to find as many slots and
solutions as possible. So it'sgreat that they they scrounged
up a couple extra slots thatyear.

Eli (46:57):
Yeah. I'm certainly, certainly very happy about it.

Bryan (47:00):
Yeah. So let's talk about Italy. Can you briefly describe
the training setup in Italy forus?

Eli (47:08):
Yeah. Absolutely. So the course occurs at what's called
the International FlightTraining School, IFTS, in
Decimomante, Sardinia. That's anisland off the West Coast Of
Italy. It's run by the ItalianAir Force called two twelve
Squadron, but supported bycivilian contracted maintenance

(47:28):
and instructors similar to howMoose Jaw operates.
They have a mix of military andcivilian instructors that'll
take you through sims and allthe flights as well. Basically,
the course, starts with 11flights to convert to the
aircraft type, and then you'llwrap and then you'll directly
transition to the tactical phaseof the course. So you'll do,

(47:52):
BFM, which is basic fightermaneuvers, one versus one. And
then you move on to air combatmaneuvering, which is two good
guys against one bad guy, whichleads into radar intercepts
where you, use your radar to gofind another aircraft in a small
piece of sky. Then you continueusing your radar, and learn how
to, do beyond visual rangeengagements, which means, just

(48:15):
shooting missiles withoutseeing, them.
There's also an air to groundportion, so you'll do low level
navigation similar to how youwould in Moose Jaw with some
simulated attacks on targets.You do close air support with
real JTAGs, joint terminalattract attack controllers. So
they'll talk you onto a target,and you have to work with them

(48:35):
to deliver a simulated, munitiononto onto the target. Wow. Yeah.
It was a pretty, pretty neat,experience. You also get to fly
a live range. So you'll go dropreal inert training bombs, and
they get scored, which is apretty pretty neat experience.

Bryan (48:54):
That's probably a fun day.

Eli (48:56):
Yeah. It's, it's like probably one of the best weeks
of the course for sure. Yeah.And it all kind of culminates in
you having to execute thesebasic strike missions where you
have to go in with somesimulated bombs on your jet, and
then you'll go fight some badguys and try to make delivery on

(49:16):
time, on the correct target. Youalso will do some flying at
night.
So you get to fly night visiongoggles, do a couple of those
missions with those on. Sooverall, pretty pretty thorough
course, I would say.

Bryan (49:29):
Yeah. That sounds like how long is the course in in
time?

Eli (49:33):
It's ten months long, roughly a 150 missions.

Bryan (49:37):
Oh, wow. So that's quite a bit of quite a bit of
experience. That's awesome. Whogets to attend this course, and
how is it decided whichCanadians go there?

Eli (49:48):
So everyone who attends Lyft will be graduates of phase
three in the Harvard or FAPEswho have completed their first
instructional tour. That's alsotrue for those attending NGEP on
the T 38 down at Texas or orother or other Lyft option,
basically, to get guys onto theHornet. The fighter force
decides who attends Lyft andNGEP. I don't really know
exactly what goes into theselection process. So I don't

(50:10):
really speculate beyond sayingthat good grades and a good
attitude are helpful for gettingstream fighters.
That's fair. Who goes to Italyversus Texas beyond my pay
grade. But in my case, it was itwas timing, spots in Italy
before Texas.

Bryan (50:25):
Okay. Right on. So what is the experience like to go
from a fairly simple aircraftlike the Harvard two to the t
three four six?

Eli (50:33):
It's a lot. Yeah. Even something as simple as gaining
an understanding of all the newsymptom systems on a twin engine
jet, and then also how toincorporate all the new
information it's spitting out atyou and your cross check is
pretty challenging. I completelyforgot about the HUD for the
first couple of flights. I wasjust flying off this the
displays down below.

(50:56):
So adapting to all that's prettychallenging. You also have to be
really aware of the the jet'scapabilities. It accelerates
really easily. It's really hardto slow down. It'll give you
eight Gs.
No problem. It also rolls on ait's like it's sitting on top of
a pen. Yeah. And so a reallycommon experience is you'll take
off for your first flight. Yougo to turn out to the area and

(51:16):
you just apply the standardamount of left roll that you
think you would need, and youjust roll about a 120 degrees

Bryan (51:22):
Oh, wow.

Eli (51:22):
Upside down because it, it rolls so quickly. But, yeah. I'd
say the Harvard prepares youwell, but it's certainly a big
step up.

Bryan (51:31):
How difficult is the t three four six to fly overall?

Eli (51:35):
I'll be honest. It flies like a dream.

Bryan (51:38):
Yeah.

Eli (51:38):
It's, it's designed to be really easy to fly because
tactical phases, you just don'thave the brain bites to devote
to flying it, as you as much asyou would if you weren't doing a
tactical mission.

Bryan (51:51):
For sure.

Eli (51:52):
So it has things that help you with that. It's fly by wire,
and they have this thing calledcarefree handling, which
basically means you can put anycontrol input at any airspeed,
any attitude, and it will notdepart, and it will not
overstress the aircraft.

Bryan (52:08):
Okay.

Eli (52:09):
It also has auto trim in the pitch axis, which means that
if I put the nose on thehorizon, it won't climb and it
won't descend. So you can justkinda put it there and leave it,
and it'll do its own thing. Andit also has an autopilot, which
is awesome. You do need to learnhow to fly the autopilot as
almost as much as you need tolearn how to fly the jet. Mhmm.
But overall, it's a yeah. A verystraightforward aircraft to fly.

Bryan (52:32):
Yeah. And that's pretty standard, in terms of the
autopilot stuff. Likeautomation, is obviously a huge
workload reducer. But it isbecause they are so
sophisticated, they also can befairly complex and having like a
a very, very good understandingof them is is critical.

Eli (52:52):
Yeah. Absolutely.

Bryan (52:54):
Yeah. From a student perspective, how demanding is
the course in Italy?

Eli (53:00):
Yeah. It's it's pretty demanding. It's a very high pace
of learning throughout. Like Isaid, you only get 11 flights to
transition to the aircraft. Soit's couple solo, like sorry,
single ship flights.
You do, like, six formationflights. And then after that,
they stamp you, you know, sealof approval. You can go fly this

(53:22):
thing safely domestically. Soafter that, they just start
piling it on because you'veproven that you can do this at a
basic level. So for example,night flying, you will do one
single ship night flight.
And then the next flight, you'regonna be flying in formation off
another jet. And it's possiblethat's your second night flight

(53:43):
ever. You can also have it whereyou'll finish your your
transition phase on the jet, andthen you'll do two BFM flights.
And then after that, you'retaking it solo. And so to go so
quickly from, you know, a propto a twin engine jet, So now I'm

(54:05):
taking this jet solo.
I'm gonna go fight anotheraircraft. It's it's a really
steep learning curve and reallychallenging. But over there,
they they really leveragesimulation a lot, which is
really helpful because becauseit's so easy to fly, you don't
need so much of the hands andfeet, seat of the pants kind of
sensations. Right. And it's alot of systems management and

(54:26):
that type of thing.

Bryan (54:27):
Mhmm. A little while ago, I did a series with with Dan
McWilliams. He was a Cold War feighteen pilot, one of the first
cadres on the f 18. And that wassomething he said about learning
to fly the f 18 was it's abeautiful aircraft. It's easy to
fly.
The the real challenge is allthe system management. And I
think that's probably gonna betrue on any modern fighter. Like

(54:50):
more and more aircraft,especially military aircraft,
are are a weapons platform or asystems platform to to
accomplish some mission. So thesystems management is really
where most of the work goes in.

Eli (55:05):
Yeah. It's definitely where you make your money. On the
later flights, it's like 90% ofdealing with what's happening on
the screens. And then you haveto bring your head up. Okay.
I'm still flying around, stillflying an airplane. And then you
go back to like the systemsmanagement.

Bryan (55:19):
Yep. Yep. That sounds familiar. So how did the course
go for you?

Eli (55:27):
It went well. There's a lot of hard moments, you know, in
days where I was pushed to thelimits of my, you know, limited
experience. But that's kind ofthe point. Right? Me and my
wingman, we're luckily able tomake it through without any
major hiccups, but that'slargely thanks to the awesome
instruction and the support wegot from over there.

Bryan (55:46):
That's great. And how did you enjoy Italy itself?

Eli (55:50):
It was awesome as you as you can imagine. The food was
great. Great pasta, good pizza.Because it's an island, you're
only ever about thirty minutesaway from really world class
beaches, which was a nice way todecompress and unwind, pretty
close to Europe so you can takesome trips on long weekends.
Yep.
And most of all, just thepeople. It's an international

(56:13):
school. So you're gettinginstruction from, you know,
Greek pilots, Belgian pilots,British pilots, and really
making lifelong friends. Like, Ihave connections all over the
world now, thanks to that time Igot to spend over there.

Bryan (56:26):
That's pretty amazing. I used to enjoy that about Moose
Jaw. I don't know how many isthere still a fairly
international presence or orfairly large international
presence in in Moose Jaw?

Eli (56:37):
No. The last Hungarian the Hungary was the last country to
still be flying as part of NFTC,and they pulled out a year or
two ago.

Bryan (56:46):
Okay. Yeah. I used to really enjoy that about Moose
Jaw though. The meeting ofpeople from Italy, from Hungary.
There was a few other countriesthere at the time as well.
It's a it's a cool experiencegetting that that multicultural
flavor in your flight in yourflight training and and getting
to meet people from all over theworld.

Eli (57:06):
Yeah. Absolutely.

Bryan (57:10):
So you're now waiting to start training on the CF 18
Hornet. Are you excited to getout there and get on an
operational jet?

Eli (57:17):
Yeah. Yeah. I can't wait. As I've mentioned before, it's,
you know, a bit of a doubleedged sword because I'm I've got
a lot of excitement, but there'salso a lot of anticipation
because I know it's just gonnachallenge me more than any
flying course I've done yet.

Bryan (57:31):
Yeah. But at least at this point, you've developed a
lot more of the tools to dealwith that. Right?

Eli (57:38):
Yeah. I do feel like going through flight training has
given me a good set of toolsthat I'll need to to get me
through the course.

Bryan (57:48):
Yeah. And and speaking of that, do you think you've been
well prepared by Lyft?

Eli (57:52):
I hope so. Talking to Hamza, who I think you're to,
he's the senior instructorsenior Canadian instructor over
there. He was also an instructoron the CF eighteen's OTU, the
training course for the Hornet,as well as the two fellows who
did the course before me and arenow flying the Hornet. It sounds

(58:12):
like the syllabus they present,in Lyft, it's a pretty solid job
of, providing a baseline forcontinuing onto the Hornet. Lots
of work to do, but, I'm gonnachoose to believe them.

Bryan (58:24):
Yeah. Well, I mean, the course you did sounds very
challenging and it sounds verythorough. So I would imagine
it's gonna be a pretty good prepfor the, CF 18 course.

Eli (58:35):
Yeah. From what my understanding is that the the
syllabus you do in Italy is ispretty similar to the syllabus
you'll do on the fighter pilotcourse. So hopefully, it'll you
know, I won't have doneeverything to the to the level
that they're obviously gonnateach me to do it, but I'll have
like have done an introduction,you know?

Bryan (58:53):
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. What are you most excited for in
the operational jet world?

Eli (58:59):
I've been training in some form or another for the last ten
years. It's been a really longroad. So I'm really excited to
do the real thing. I will sayten years is not the standard
anymore. It's gotten a lotbetter Mhmm.
Since COVID and stuff. Right?Yeah. The reality of flying
fighters though is the trainnever stops. I'm looking forward
to that, But, I think it'll bereally cool to hold the queue,

(59:24):
serve Canadians, and give back,a little bit for all the air
forces, even me in the last tenyears.

Bryan (59:30):
Yeah. A 100%. And and when you say hold the queue,
you're talking about the quickreaction force. Right?

Eli (59:34):
Yeah. Absolutely. The the folks that are sitting around
twenty four seven monitoring anddefending our airspace.

Bryan (59:40):
Yeah. And you're totally right. Like, the work the work
never ends. Right? No matterwhat you end up flying in,
you're you're always training.
You're always working at it. ButI totally get what you're saying
that after all this time,there's gonna be a certain
satisfaction of finally gettingon your operational aircraft.

Eli (59:56):
Yeah. Absolutely. There will be a day at some point in
the future where I am notgetting actively evaluated
during a flight, and that isexciting.

Bryan (01:00:05):
Yes. And that is a nice feeling too to just be able to
fly, let me tell you. So let'sclose out with our, final three
questions. What would you say isone thing that you consider
essential to do to stay ready todo your job?

Eli (01:00:19):
I'm really big on sleep. Getting a good night's rest has
always been really important tome, to excel while flying. I was
doing post secondary education.Yeah. So I I kinda main try to
maintain that in in my, youknow, cross check, so to speak.
When I was on phase two, myflight commander sat us all down
for a briefing on crew rest. Hespelled it out pretty clearly,

(01:00:43):
and he said, well, we have atwelve hour crew duty day limit
before we go home. Our dutydidn't really cease then because
in general, air crew are, youknow, broadly entitled to twelve
hours of rest between dutyperiods. And his point was that
after our crew duty day ends, itis now our new duty to go and
make sure we use that time toget appropriately rested for our

(01:01:04):
missions the next day. You know?
And so that really, yeah,brought it home for me. I've
never really been the guy topull an all nighter or cram, and
I realized that operationally,the opportunities for rest may
be a bit more irregular, but Ireally intend on focusing on it
moving forward.

Bryan (01:01:24):
Yeah. I couldn't agree more. Sleep is essential. You've
just earned your wings and haveseen people succeed in fail out
of flight training. What do youthink makes a great jet pilot?

Eli (01:01:36):
Yeah. I don't I'd say I'm probably underqualified to
define what makes a great jetpilot, But I'll highlight some
attributes of the folks that Ilooked up to during training.

Bryan (01:01:47):
Sure.

Eli (01:01:48):
One, were all extremely hard workers. They studied
harder. They prepped more. Theycheerfully more thoroughly than
anyone else. But to go withthat, they were also extremely
humble.
Despite doing better than anyoneelse, they realized the job is
really all about learning. Andso when they come back from a
trip, you'd ask them how itwent. They're not gonna stand

(01:02:09):
there and, you know, tell talesof how awesome they were.
They're just gonna get straightinto the stuff that they did
poorly and brainstorm a littlebit about how to do better and
just try and pass that learningon to everyone else.

Bryan (01:02:21):
Right on.

Eli (01:02:22):
Yeah. And then just the final thing is they're all just
really, really good people andteam players, you know, because
the fast track community can getthis has this kind of
stereotype. It's just a bunch ofindividuals flying around doing
their thing. But the reality isthat despite being alone in your
own cockpit, every missionessentially is flown as a pair
at a minimum. And you work as ateam much the same way as a

(01:02:43):
aircraft commander and a firstofficer would.
Right? So having a good attitudeand having someone that you
trust is super important. Andthey just all demonstrated that
day to day through their actionsand words, you know.

Bryan (01:02:58):
Yeah. That's awesome. If you ran into a student pilot
that really wanted to attendLyft, what advice would you give
them?

Eli (01:03:07):
Yeah. It's a very long very long road, and it's challenging.
And it doesn't get any easierthe further along you get. That
being said, the long days ofstudying and the years of
training it takes are superrewarding. I'm really thankful
for the opportunities I've had.
I don't regret any of them for aminute. And nothing beats going

(01:03:27):
up solo in a jet on a Fridayafternoon for a dogfight.

Bryan (01:03:30):
Yeah. I believe it. Okay, Eli. That's gonna wrap up our
chat for today. Man, this hasbeen so cool to have you go from
reaching out to the show toending up as a guest on the
show.
I'm really thankful that you'vegiven us some of your time today
and put yourself out there. Sothank you very much and, we'll,
we'll talk to you soon.

Eli (01:03:50):
Awesome. It's been a pleasure. Thanks, Brian.

Bryan (01:03:52):
Yep. Fly safe.

Eli (01:03:53):
Thanks.

Bryan (01:03:55):
Okay. That wraps up our three part series on the lead in
fighter training or lift programin Italy. For our next series,
we will be sitting down withmajor Ian Wookie to talk about
his experiences flying the CHone forty seven f Chinook. Do
you have any questions orcomments about anything you've
heard in this show? Would you orsomebody you know make a great
guest, or do you have a greatidea for a show?

(01:04:17):
You can reach out to us at [e-mail] or
on all social media at at podpilot project. And be sure to
check out that social media forlots of great videos of our RCAF
and mission aviation aircraft.As always, we'd like to thank
you for tuning in and ask foryour help with the big three.
That's like and follow us onsocial media, share with your
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(01:04:39):
podcasts. That's all for now.
Thanks for listening. Keep theblue side up. See Engineer, shut
down all four. Shutting down allfour engines.