Episode 79: The Gunner: Life of a USAF Aerial Gunner and flying on the AC130H Spectre Gunship and the HH-60G PAVEHAWK Part 2 - Anthony Dyer - The Pilot Project Podcast

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Bryan (00:58):
Alright. We're ready for departure here at the pilot
project podcast, the best sourcefor stories and advice from RCAF
and mission aviation pilotsbrought to you by Skies
Magazine. I'm your host, BrianMorrison, and today we're once
again doing something differentfor our show and featuring our
first American guest. With metoday is author of the book
Moonchild and United States AirForce veteran tech surgeon
Anthony Dyer, a retired aerialgunner on the AC one thirty h

(01:20):
Spectre gunship and the HH 60 gPave Hawk helicopter. Anthony,
I'm pumped to continue our chatand learn more about you and
your book today, so thank youagain for being here.

Anthony (01:29):
Thanks for that, man.

Bryan (01:29):
Glad to be here, man. Appreciate it. Listeners can
check out part one to hear aboutAnthony's early days in
Appalachians as well as joiningthe USAF and his first baptism
of fire on the AC one thirtyeight Spectre gunship. Today,
we'll be talking about hisoperational life as well as his
post release life and some ofthe things he went through in
that journey. So as we saidbefore, you started deploying to

(01:52):
Afghanistan.
Can you tell us about what yourmission there was? Maybe a
little review on kind of themissions you guys were doing
there as well as describe thedeployments in general?

Anthony (02:01):
Yeah. So we basically, there's there's two types of
gunship missions that that wouldhappen. And what I mean by that
is there's the planned oneswhere, like, you you study this
operation for at least a week,you know, and, there there's
products and there you knowexactly who the guys on the
ground are going after. It'svery planned, very detailed. You
know where other air players aregonna be above you, below you,

(02:21):
etcetera.
Then then, back then we hadpagers, believe it or not. And
like, basically for a troops incontact situation, basically
what that means is like the guysare getting lit up and they need
your close air support like now.And and, you would get certain
numbers on a pager that wouldalert launch you. Like, you
would read, okay. We gotta go totalk and then get our whatever
we have and then go.
And, you know, the the agreementsort of was like, you know,

(02:42):
thirty minutes off the groundto, going to the op at least.
And, know, you so it's eitherone of those two things. And
and, you know, sort of mentionedearlier, 2011, it started to
slow down a little bit, but notentirely. And, but, basically,
yeah, there was a lot of, youknow, raids and, like, if
there's any type of directaction stuff, like, guys are
kicking down doors. Like, we wewere there often as the
insurance, you know.
So you wouldn't always shoot,but, you know, once a week or

(03:05):
something like that would belike a not an unrealistic number
to shoot, something like that.But, know, there was nights
where we would take off and,like, it was a kinetic type
engagement where, like, they getyou know, this guy, they're
gonna do they want him dead.Right? And, we would shoot one
one zero five round andproximity type round and just,
you know, come back, you know.Then there was nights where, you
know, we were getting at itearlier where you're just doing
a lot of droning and keepingyour eyes on certain stuff and

(03:27):
painting that picture for thethe ground guys.

Bryan (03:29):
So there were nights where you guys had, like, a
specific person that you wereafter?

Anthony (03:35):
Yeah. Yeah. There there'd be nights where, like,
the guys on the ground would youknow, like, let's say the steals
are going after this guy or thatguy, you know, and, you know,
you would brief so much, youknow, like, before that that
operation. Like, you would knoweverything's gonna happen. You
know, you studied it that much.
And then, basically, they theygo in and, you know, they bag
and tag this guy, you know, getinformation, you know, stuff

(03:55):
like that. Right? And, you know,there's SSC at the end where
you're getting all thisdifferent what that means is
getting computers, cell phones,all the different equipment and
see what other intel you canget. So it sort of builds on
each other.

Bryan (04:06):
Okay.

Anthony (04:07):
But, yeah, you know, there there was all that going
on. And then there's the, youknow, the other side of what I
was talking about with thebeepers. Like, you get paged
and, like, you know, before youeven overhead, the the guy on
the ground is clearing you inthe gauge with a 40 mil and a
one zero five to to shoot. Youknow? And that's that was
honestly, some of my favoriteones were, like, basically, that
you would have nothing but a,you know, a location and a call

(04:27):
sign and a and, you know, and aradio frequency.
And and we would go on thatinformation and go to where they
were at. And, you know, it's ait's a thing, like I said, you
never get used to. You know,you're you're so many miles out
and, know, and the sensoroperators are picking them up
and stuff like that. And theyjust start running because
you're, you know, you're you'renoise propping. You know, at
that point, they know and youknow it's over and, you know,
it's usually a a quicker nightafter that, would say.

Bryan (04:50):
So Yeah. So we got a couple terms there I wanna just
quickly go over. You said talk,which I believe is tactical
operations center. That'scorrect. Yeah.
We talked about troops incontact, which is also referred
to as a tick. And that's apretty common term, I think, in
most Western militaries. Anotherkinda important part of the
process is that your crew wouldget tasked via a five line

(05:11):
message by radio from a jointterminal air controller or JTAC.
Can you explain what a five lineand a JTAC are and how this
process goes?

Anthony (05:19):
Yeah. Yeah. So JTAC stands for joint terminal air
controller. You know, usually,it's a it's either like a combat
controller that it's acertification is what it is.
Basically, they're they'requalified just like we're
qualified to fly an aircraft, doour certain jobs in aircraft.
They get qualified on calling inclose air support. So, you know
and those guys, you know, eventhe combat controller pipeline,

(05:40):
those guys, like, I couldn'timagine doing what those guys do
just to get through that. Youknow?

Bryan (05:44):
Their job is crazy.

Anthony (05:46):
Yeah. Yeah. It's wild. You know? You know, Superman
school for a reason.
Mhmm. I definitely did not dothat. You know? But, yeah. But
they, they're usually the guyscalling us in.
You know, there is different,you know, different nations have
different J Techs withdifferent, you know, units or
whatnot. But basically they'rethe guys that call you in for
the, the close air support. Youknow, I got an example of how

(06:07):
one would sound, you know,calling in the gunship
specifically. And it's usuallylike a, a five line, like,
special operations, like gunchip control type, you know,
calls for fire, if you will.

Bryan (06:17):
You say you have an example?

Anthony (06:18):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I got one. I just sort of this is
it would sound something likethis if you want me to go ahead
with it.

Bryan (06:24):
Yeah. Go for it.

Anthony (06:25):
Yeah. It would say this, for example, like, know,
Spectre 61, this is Reaper 45,fire mission over. Then we would
respond Reaper45, Spectre61,send it. You know, line one
would be like, you know, myposition, you know, TRP two
marked by IR strobe. And then,you know, line two would be,
like, target location withbearing two seven zero range 500

(06:48):
meters.
And then line three would beyour target description, what
they're giving you. Like, yougot three enemy fighters out in
the open, and line four is whatthey're gonna clear to shoot
with would be like the one zerofive high explosive, for
example. And then line five is areally important one where
they're like, you know, you'reclear to engage. And if it's a,
a danger close shoot, whichmeans we're shooting really
close to the to the bad guys,that there's some risk that has

(07:10):
to be bought, and you ask forthe ground force commander's
initials to basically give youthat permission.

Bryan (07:14):
Okay. Awesome.

Anthony (07:15):
Yeah. Yeah. And it's one of those things like the the
danger close shoots, you know,they they're rare, but they do
happen. You know? And that'sbasically, you know, there's a
decision that has to be madebetween the front of the
aircraft and the back, and wetalk about it.
And, you know, we have a sayingwhere the the guys on the ground
on the rounds, right, becausethey're calling us and giving us
that permission. But we on theswitches where like, hey, if we
do this, like, there could bethe worst case scenario, which

(07:36):
would be fratricide. That'ssomething you definitely won't
ever you definitely won't everwanna have to do one

Bryan (07:40):
of those because it it gets hairy. You know? How many
did you were danger close shootscommon?

Anthony (07:48):
Not too common, but they happened, you know, I I
would say probably the wholetime I did it, probably, like,
three times, you know, in inAfghanistan, all for those. But

Bryan (07:56):
I hate to ask, but did any of them result in friendly
fire?

Anthony (08:01):
No. No. Oh, thank god for that. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I I couldn't I mean, Icouldn't I probably would have
never been able to continue ifif that would have happened or
something like that. You know?

Bryan (08:09):
That would be that's the worst. There's not there's
there's basically nothing worsein in warfare.

Anthony (08:14):
Oh, yeah. A 100%.

Bryan (08:17):
So you touched on this a little in the last episode. You
mentioned in the book thatpeople ask if being on the
gunship was like the game zombiegunship, which probably most
people have seen advertised ontheir phones. Or I'd imagine
people have played Call of Dutyand wondered if they were
similar. What's it really liketo crew a gunship, and what do
those fictional examples getwrong?

Anthony (08:35):
Yeah. I would say that, particularly those those
examples get wrong, like therate of fire for the one zero
five. Like like, you look at eeven movies like where the
transformer scene where Tyresecalls it in on the the Septicon,
I believe it was. And then Ibelieve the covenant has a, you
know, a portrayal of that aswell. But basically the rate of
fire, you know, and they theylook like saber rounds or
something coming out, but, know,you're getting very slower rate

(08:55):
of fire, you know, four to 10rounds per minute on the one
zero five and, you know, justbasically that.
And yet the fact that there'sactually another, you know,
human, you know, human life atthe other end of that you're
taking. Mhmm. You know, so it'sa very, you know, personal thing
with that too. Know? So I neverpeople ask me if I played, like,
Modern Warfare, all that stuff.
You know? I'm like, no, man.Because got the shirt, man.
Right? Like, you know, I lovedoing it, you know, but, like,

(09:16):
at the end of the day, don'twanna play a game with it or
something like that.
You know?

Bryan (09:19):
That's fair. You know, I never thought about the biggest
difference there, which, as yousaid, is that there's a human
life on the other end of thatround. And those games obviously
can't make that real. So whetherit's, you know, zombies or a
transformer getting hit orsomething that's not even human
or in even a game like ModernWarfare where it is a a person,
it's not a real person where youyou've done that with real

(09:41):
people. So you can't you can'tsimulate that.

Anthony (09:45):
A 100%. Yeah. And that that's why even like going
through training, was getting atearlier, like, you know, there's
certain things that they can'ttrain, you know, that the
experiences you have in combatand what whatever that is, that
that very terrible situationthat they can't simulate. So
that's why they're sort of, youknow, they they lean on you a
lot. You know?

Bryan (10:01):
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Now this is kind of an interesting
topic, and it's something that Ithink Canadian military tends to
shy away from a little bit. Butyou talk about killing in the
book as being your job, whichgiven what a gunship is and what
it's for makes sense.
Can you describe what it's liketo engage the enemy and keep
those special operations forcesor soft folks safe?

Anthony (10:24):
Yeah. So I think seeing the the big picture, like, the
the why behind it all is is tomake sure, as mentioned earlier,
those those guys get home, youknow, and, you know, there there
is you see some carnage,obviously, with that, you know,
in the, you know, the especiallyin the debrief and you're going
over all this stuff and you'reseeing the, you know, the you
know, basically replay. Right?And, you know but, yeah, you you
realize that there's a biggerpicture to it and, like, you

(10:45):
know, that you that we do it forthem, you know, and to save
lives, you know, so and at theend of the day, man, they're,
you know, they're usuallyterrorists that you're killing.
Right?
So it's it's part of it. Youknow? Yeah.

Bryan (10:56):
Yeah. And I guess, you know, they're gonna be there one
way or the other. Right? Yep.Those Americans have a job to
do, and they're gonna be there.
So they might as well have thebest support possible to bring
them home.

Anthony (11:12):
A 100%. Yeah. And like I said, it's all about them.
And, you know, it's like, Inever regretted, like, a round
that went out to take care of aof a high value tar or, like, a
bad guy. Right?
Yeah. Like, you know, like, itwas all about, you know,
delighting the situation andgetting those guys home. And,
you know, it's like, that neverbothered me, you know, but, you
know, some guys, it it may Idon't know, on different

(11:32):
airframes, stuff like that. Butdefinitely the gunship remember
we even signed a letter like,hey. Like, in this job, there's
a high ops tempo and there'sgonna be lives taken.
You know? You had to sign thatletter. So Mhmm.

Bryan (11:43):
How how did it feel, as you say in the book, to stack
bodies in large numbers and seethat kind of carnage? Did you
find that it affected you oryour peers?

Anthony (11:51):
So I I had one friend that it affected, really, you
know, really bad, but he endedup getting help and, and he's a
lot better man for that, youknow, and got out and
everything. He's a super reallygood gunner, really good
aviator, and it's a really goodperson, you know.

Bryan (12:04):
And Mhmm.

Anthony (12:05):
You know, we went into the ISIS conflict, and it it was
just it was pretty wild at firstbecause there was really no guys
on the ground. And it was like,basically, like a person sitting
in a a tactical operationscenter with, a general right.

Bryan (12:16):
Like Yep.

Anthony (12:17):
You know, hey. You know, that's hostile. Clear
doing gay, you know, stuff likethat. But, it was a lot a lot of
numbers in that one. And, youknow, some people it did affect,
some people it didn't.

Bryan (12:26):
Yeah. And it's kind of you just don't know. You don't
know who it's gonna affect. It'sit's I'm sure there's a science
behind it. I'm sure that as theykeep studying post traumatic
stress disorder and variouscombat traumas that they're
going to learn more about who itaffects and why.

(12:47):
But you just don't you know, onthe surface of it, you don't
know who it's gonna affect. Somepeople walk away from it and
they're okay, and other peoplewalk away from it deeply
affected for the rest of theirlives.

Anthony (12:56):
Yeah. Yeah. And I and I and I think the important part
was all this. Like, my my mainmessage in all this and getting
this story out is, like, we'revery normal men and women doing
very, very uncommon, unordinarythings. Right?
And no matter what side of thethis coin we're on was America,
can you know, Canada, Britain,like, we're all in this
together, you know, and, like,there's gonna get to a point

(13:16):
where, like, you know, it's okaynot to be okay and you have to
realize that fact. And Mhmm. Youknow, if you get help, you know,
I feel like I'm a better manbecause of that, because I made
that conscious decision tochoose better over bitter, you
know?

Bryan (13:27):
Me too. Absolutely. I'm, you know, I'm still a work in
progress, but I'm so much betterthan I was years ago. And I'm so
glad that I went and got help.It was a turning point in my
life for sure.

Anthony (13:40):
I'm pulling for you, Brian. You got it,

Bryan (13:42):
man. Thank you, man. Hey. Just out of curiosity, do you
ever support Canadian troops inAfghanistan? Anything like that
ever happened?

Anthony (13:50):
Yeah. There was a a couple of Canadians off, you
know, I can't remember exactlywhat they were doing, but I
remember, you know, pretty muchspecial operators across the the
globe and, like, our our fourour, our partner nations. Right?
You know, we supported it, man.The Aussies, the Brits, you
know, the Polish at

Bryan (14:06):
one point. I remember that. Just stuff like that.
Right on. That's awesome.
What is the craziest thing youwitnessed as a gunner on the
Spectre gunship in Afghanistan?

Anthony (14:17):
I think that's a very good question. The craziest
thing. Yeah. I would say the,the moment where long story
short, we were at Bagram and,and there was this guy that
worked at the chow hall and hewas, a third country national is
what it was called. Andbasically he had, he had base
access, you know, what it waswas we ended up getting in a
pretty heavy shoot inAfghanistan one night.

(14:38):
I didn't think anything of it,you know, and, like, they're
anywhere from, like, 20 it's proapproximately 20 dudes, I think,
something like that. We'reshooting RPGs again at, you
know, our guys. Right? And weended up getting into it with
them and, we get back andusually we would always land.
Daylight would be coming up,we'd get breakfast, there was
waffles and omelets.
And like, man, we're like,where's the where's this waffle
man at? Right? Like, where'sthis guy at? Know? Like, he made

(14:59):
good waffles, you know?
And and, you know, basicallylike two, we realized like, man,
that guy, man, he made, youknow, good waffles and they
replaced him. We're like, man, Iwonder what happened to that
guy. Like two weeks later, likethe, one of the, you know, the
green break teams come up like,hey, know, just so you guys
know, you guys smoked a waffle,man, the other night. No. The
other night, you know?
Yeah. I mean, stuff like that,you can't make up, man.

Bryan (15:19):
It just it's crazy stuff like that. Like, how he had So
he was Taliban?

Anthony (15:22):
Yes. Supporting Taliban. Yeah. And, you know, we
ended up getting in a shootingnear base. You know?
I remember it. And Yeah. And,you know, mopping the floor with
him. But, yeah, he it is what itis. You know?
And I it's but the scary partwas that guy was on base. You
know? Like, man

Bryan (15:34):
Yeah. Yeah.

Anthony (15:35):
How does that happen? You know?

Bryan (15:36):
Yeah. That is crazy. That's wild. So now we're going
to get into a war that I alsotook part in as an ally as well.
In late two thousand fourteen,the emerging threat was ISIS.
You deployed to Kuwait as seniordirector of operations or SDO.
The ISIS mission was fullyramped up. What did your job
involve as SDO?

Anthony (15:56):
Yeah. Yeah. So it was it was a lot of, like, I
believe, actually, at this pointbecause we we were in
Afghanistan, and then the othercrew got alerted to wake up to
go to Kuwait. Okay. That thatwas 2014.
And Yeah. And 2015 is when whenI actually went. Know, You by
the time those guys they wereover there so long, by the time
they got back, we we were goingout and we went out there. But,
yeah, it was, basically to to,you know, take care of the the

(16:18):
the men and women that that fly,you know, the the guys and, you
know, that you're monitoringflight hours, you know, and
there's there's rules just like,you know, like, just for
example, like, to an aviatordeployment, like like, ninety
days, you have 330 flight hours,and it is a really hard thing to
do to to get a waiver abovethat. Yep.
And that's for for rest reasonsand, you know, your mental
clarity, stuff like that. Andbut, yeah, I was managing that,

(16:39):
you know, make sure everybody's,you know, air conditioner was
working, a lot of stuff likethat. And, you know, we were
really new to still to coat tothat air base. And, you know, I
remember different agencies, youknow, that you're gonna need the
support guys, you know, and Iremember we would give static
displays, like, to sort of painta picture of, hey. This is
what's going on.
This is who you're supporting.Right? To the to the HVAC guys,
the air conditioning guys wasKuwait, man. It's hot. Right?

(17:00):
Oh, yeah. You know, I rememberone guy asked me

Bryan (17:03):
It's crazy hot.

Anthony (17:03):
Leaflets out. Yeah. Yeah. One guy asked me if we
asked, like, if we drop leafletsoff the gunship, I'm like, no,
man. We don't do that.
You know? So I just just dealingwith stuff like that and, you
know, but and it was a it was avery weird thing because you're
you're eating in this beautifulchow hall, you're getting ice
cream, you're getting this bestfood in the world, right, and at
a deployed location anyway. And,you know, two hours later,

(17:24):
you're flying over Baghdad, man.

Bryan (17:25):
Like, you

Anthony (17:26):
know, that's like, wow. You know, like, just that that
switch I had to turn on or theyhad to turn on every time they
would do that. It's a hard thingto put in words, really.

Bryan (17:33):
Yeah. I what time what what months were you there in
2015?

Anthony (17:38):
So it was I got there before May. So it was oh, it was
March, April for, like, sixmonths at

Bryan (17:46):
that point. So we were actually there at the exact same
time. Were you flying out ofAliyah Slim?

Anthony (17:51):
Yep. Yep. We're the same base. Yeah. Were there at
that point.

Bryan (17:54):
Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. Same base, same time.
Yeah. I was flying in the P 3.We call it the the CP one forty
Aurora, but doing ISR collectingdata on targets and things. I'm
pretty

Anthony (18:06):
sure we gave you guys a a a few stack displays and vice
versa. Yeah. Yeah. If I rememberright. Yeah.

Bryan (18:10):
Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. That's pretty cool that
that we were we were there atthe same time at the same place.
And I totally agree.
It it was totally weird too. Wehad a tempo of like basically
day on day off and we had twocrews. So the Aurora was flying
every day, but each crew wasflying every other. And it was
weird to go, like go to the theDFAC, the dining facility, get

(18:32):
this like amazing food. Youknow, I love like you said, the
waffles on on Sundays and thecurry on Fridays.
Like you get used to all thedays and stuff. And then like
flip the switch and now you'reover Iraq. And you're watching a
firefight happen and rockets areflying and tracer fires going
everywhere and Yeah. Yeah. It'sAnd it was pretty crazy days
during 2015.

(18:53):
Like, the fighting wasespecially around like Beiji,
North Of Baghdad and

Anthony (18:57):
Oh, yeah.

Bryan (18:57):
It was pretty crazy.

Anthony (18:59):
Yeah. And it's it's a hard thing to put in words, that
switch. Right? Like, that thatmental moment to where you're
like, okay. Like, you know, Ineed to I need to do this.
I need to get my head clear so Icould we can go do this mission.
Right? Yeah. And, you know, youknow, there's a pool one day and
there's crab legs and Yeah.Lobster on Friday.
The next thing you know, you're,you know, thousands of feet in
the air and, you know.

Bryan (19:18):
Yeah. And and I found what was tough for us was what I
found what I found scarypersonally was that we were
always, like, way behind, like,the friendly the the enemy
lines. Right? Like, you'reeither over Mosul, the capital
of ISIS, or you're way over in,like, you know, West Of Iraq or
all these crazy places where,like, anything goes wrong,

(19:40):
you're not getting home. Oh,yeah.
Yeah.

Anthony (19:42):
And that and that was always a very real, like like,
sort of I don't know. Always inthe back of my head. Like, you
know, that's when you rememberyou're serious to all that
stuff. You know? Like becauseyou're like, man, like, the
stuff that was going on thatISIS was doing, man, you know,
that that was terrible.
You know? Evil stuff, you know.And like you said, if I couldn't
imagine going down out there,man, like, you know.

Bryan (20:00):
Yeah. That's basically the root of the issues I still
deal with today is the fear fromthat time. It was it was pretty
it was pretty crazy.

Anthony (20:09):
Yeah. And they and they were like they started out
really dumb. I'll say that, youknow, and then and then they got
smart, you know, and and, youknow, there was stuff they had
that could, you know, get us.Right? Stuff like that.
But, yeah, it's it's a way to besmart on our end too, you know?

Bryan (20:22):
Yep. Yeah. Absolutely. How was the mission against ISIS
in Iraq different from themission against the Taliban in
Afghanistan?

Anthony (20:31):
Yeah. So there was a lot of, like, type three control
with the so what I mean by thatis I sort of talked about
earlier, but like, a guy sittingin a basically this big room
with all these screens and,like, probably like a colonel or
general Mhmm. You know,declaring what's hostile and all
this different stuff that goesinto that. A lot of those type
of shoots at that point, anyway.You know, there there was a
couple, you know, boots on theground stuff there.

(20:55):
But, yeah, it was very rare. Itwas probably two or three of
those total.

Bryan (20:58):
And and how did that compare to Afghanistan? You said
Afghanistan was more boots onthe ground?

Anthony (21:04):
Yeah. Yeah. I would say Afghanistan definitely. You
know, you got, you know, doorkickers, guys going in and stuff
like that, you know, and, youknow, Iraq, man. You know, stuff
like the the Peshmerga, youknow, you'd see them do things
and

Bryan (21:15):
Yeah. Way in the North. Yeah. Yeah. There was different
players and stuff for sure.
Like, I think Iraq was more,typically, it was more either
Peshmerga, which is Kurdishmilitia in the North, or the
Iraqi military themselves, andthen, like, some soft. Right?
But to a limited extent.

Anthony (21:33):
Yeah. Yeah. It was very rare for for soft boots on the
ground in in those days anyway.Yeah.

Bryan (21:38):
Was the fighting more or less intense in Iraq than
Afghanistan at that time, and inwhat ways?

Anthony (21:45):
I would say that there was definitely we shot more, I
would say, in in Iraq. When ISISfirst kicked off than than I
did, you know, as I Afghanistanwas winding down, you know Mhmm.
It'd be nothing, you know, atthat point, to go get an
engagement. You know? Mhmm.
And that, you know, with that,you know, there would be, like,
you know, surface to air fire,stuff like that and, you know,
self defense rules of engagementwhere, like, yeah, they just

(22:07):
shot at us. You know, at thatpoint, like, you do, like, a
sparkle talk on and they knowit's over. They're dead at that
point. Yeah. You know?
So it's stuff like that. Can you

Bryan (22:15):
explain explain what a sparkle talk on is?

Anthony (22:17):
Yeah. Yeah. So a sparkle talk on would be like,
if you if you have MEGs on it,imagine this IR, like, this
laser pointer that, like, comesdown from our aircraft to where,
like, okay, I'm gonna get I'mgonna sit in the back looking at
a window. I'm gonna move thisthing around to where I can get,
you know, the sensor operatorsor the Sizzo or Wizzos, like,
screens on that to look at itreal time, to one shot at us.

Bryan (22:38):
Right? And for the listeners, a Sizzo is a combat
systems officer and a Wizzo is aweapon systems officer.

Anthony (22:44):
And then once that's seen, right, well, okay, this is
it. Like, they showed us withthis caliber, this, this, and
this. You know, at that point,rules of engagement, you know,
gotta defend ourselves. Andafter we got away from that
threat, we would, you know, takecare of that threat.

Bryan (22:56):
It must have been nice to be able to reach back out
against someone who's shootingat you. Like, we didn't have we
didn't even have self defensesuites on the Auroras in those
days. They added them later, butwe didn't have chaff and flare
or any of that kind of stuff. Wejust are we didn't have a
defense. Our only defense was tofly higher.

Anthony (23:13):
Yeah. Yeah. It was I I just never knew why they they
kept doing it. You know? Like,okay.
Well, we're gonna shoot at theseguys at 06:00, and the next
thing you know, we blow them outthe street. You know? I never
understood that. They just keptdoing it. You know?
But I guess in the end, like,you're fighting somebody that
probably wants to die anyway alot of times. You know? And it's
I think it's bad.

Bryan (23:30):
I think a lot of them grew up in they're they're
uneducated like, in the truemeaning of the word, they're
uneducated villagers who don'tknow better, and they're
recruited into this thing thatthey're kind of brainwashed into
joining. And I just think theydon't know.

Anthony (23:46):
Yeah. Yeah. You could be exactly right, man. Yeah.
That's never know the why, but,you know, at the end of the day,
it's like, when that happens,you definitely gotta react fast
and, you know, and defendyourself.
100%. Absolutely.

Bryan (23:59):
So let's switch gears here a little bit and talk about
your personal life. During allthis fighting and war, you
managed to meet your wife,Sherry. Can you tell us about
her and how you met?

Anthony (24:10):
Yeah. So I was I just came back from a deployment. So
this was actually actually, Ithink it was that deployment I'm
telling you about. And, youknow, the '16. And I got back
and a friend a mutual friendinvited us.
She was going to college at,Eastern New Mexico University,
to be a teacher. And then I myfriend's like, hey. Let's go to
this party. These girls aregonna be there, but first, let's

(24:31):
play basketball. And we went tobasically Eastern New Mexico
University, played basketballthere, and there's this this
bridge that comes over toconnect basically across the
road to the dorms and stuff likethat.
And, you know, so we playedbasketball. And I remember she
was really good at basketball,man. She had this this attitude,
you know, I I grew up aroundnative Americans, right, and all
that culture. Right? And ifyou've seen Reservation Dogs,

(24:53):
actually, you know, Willie Jack,Pauline Alexis is from up there
where you guys are, I think.
But but she had that sort oflike a the attitude that I
remember sort of growing up, youknow, the things they would say,
like, go then or as in let's gothen or studios, let's do this.
She would say things like that.And I you know, at that moment,
I asked her, well, hey. Are areyou, you know, native American
by any chance? Does she rode onthis bridge right after

(25:13):
basketball.
And, you know, she smiled andsaid, yeah. And just that
moment, man, realized I lovedher, man. And, like, just an
instant connection. Like, theysay, you know when you know. It
was definitely one of thosemoments.
Right? Like, that God gives usfew of and

Bryan (25:26):
Yeah.

Anthony (25:26):
You know, I'm glad that happened. And yeah, the so we,
got engaged, right before I wentto the helicopter training when
I switched airframes to the PaveHawk and end up, while I was
going through initialqualification for that training,
I end up, we end up gettingpregnant and, you know, we need
TRICARE and things like that andhad the baby right when I got to
Moody Air Force Base, you know,nine months later.

Bryan (25:49):
Which must have been tough.

Anthony (25:50):
Yeah. It was a it was a it was a beast. You know, we get
in this new area and it'sprobably the most humid I've
ever been in my life, and it'spretty much the Florida Georgia
line and, you know, alligatorsmust get as big as, you know,
quarters doing you're doing yourpreflight, stuff like that.

Bryan (26:03):
Must have been also tough though to have just had a a
baby. Now did your family comewith you?

Anthony (26:09):
Yeah. So my my wife, she was still, you know, had a
bun in the oven, as they say,and, you know, I think I'd been
there maybe so October yeah.October. She was born November.
Yeah.
So I got there October. She wasborn November 21. And so month
and a half, two months if that,you know, we had a baby. And I'd
already had some flights sothat, you know, you get
basically initial qualification.That's the basic stuff.

(26:31):
And then you get to your base inthe, at least the helicopter
world, you get the missionqualification where you're
you're shooting a minigun, the50 cal pop up targets, all that
cool stuff, you know? But, yeah,I had to put a pause on that for
the, I guess, paternity leave iswhat they call that. Mhmm.

Bryan (26:46):
Yeah. That's well, which is important though. Right? You
gotta take that time.

Anthony (26:48):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. 100%.

Bryan (26:50):
Now did you find it difficult to turn off the
warfighter in you and just be anormal person to date and love
someone?

Anthony (26:58):
I did. Yeah. It's you know, the I so what would bother
me was, like, when I wasputting, like, towards the end,
you know, and, yeah, I think Iput her and my daughter through
three three or four deployments.I can't remember exactly. But,
you know, just, you know, youyou miss them, man.
Like, I hate to say it. Like,there's no like, when you're not
married and all that, you don'teven think about it. Right? You
don't like, man, I just go backand do whatever. Right?

(27:19):
But, you know, buy stuff onAmazon while I'm here. It'll be
there when I get back. But,know, now it's like, man, I got
a family to get back to. And,you see that side of things.
And, like, you know, my biggestfear were, like, know, guys
would come home and, like, theirkid wouldn't recognize them.
Like, I I had that huge phobiaof that. And Mhmm. You know,
thank thank God that neverhappened. But, you you think
about the bigger picture and andwhat's important in your life at

(27:41):
that point. You know?

Bryan (27:41):
Yeah. It definitely it changes things for sure. Like, I
was fortunate enough well,fortunate and unfortunate. When
I went on that tour my firsttour in Kuwait flying over Iraq
was in 2014 and Melissa and Ihad been married for a month and
that was tough for sure. Youknow, adults We've can handle
been together for a year and ahalf before that.

(28:03):
You we were able to call homeand all that stuff. So it was
tough, but like you get throughit. I can't imagine doing that
with a with a kid though. Wasthe fortunate part for me was
that I never had kids anytime Ideployed, and I can't imagine
doing that.

Anthony (28:16):
Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah. Couldn't put in words like how
just how much I miss my daughterand just Yeah. You know, that
moment when you get home.
Like, you know, people postthese videos of kids running up
to their dad, like like, that isa that is a moment you'll never
forget. You know, never recordedor nothing like that, man. But,
you know, just a beautifulmoment that they they recognize
and they miss their dad. Right?

Bryan (28:32):
Yeah. No. Those videos, crush me, man. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
So you have a quote in the bookby James R Ward, Office of
Strategic Services, and I'mgoing to quote it partially
here. Men, special operations isa mistress. Your wives will envy
her because she will have yourhearts. Your wives will be
jealous of her because of thepower to pull you away. Did you

(28:54):
find this was true with Sherryand your relationship with
special ops as a couple?

Anthony (28:58):
Yeah. Because, you know, you you lived that life
for for that long and, you know,you're basically this special
operations squadron where, youknow, your whole Yeah. The cool
guy stuff. Right? The whole thezeal that comes with those
moments.
And, you know, like, at the end,you're like, man, like, I'm
going away from my wife all thetime. The 3AM phone calls all
the time. The the TDYs half theyear all the time training. You

(29:19):
know, it'll definitely pull youyou away from your your wife.
And, like, it's very like, it'sa very hard command to be in and
and have a good marriage.
I'll say that, you know? Mhmm.You see a lot of divorces,
unfortunately. But I will sayit's getting a lot better since
some of these programs they'vecame out with and the counseling
and all that. But, it's it's ajob that that when I say when I
signed up or when we signed up,they signed up for that too in

(29:41):
that life, you know, and Yeah.
Just the ops tempo, all that.Like, they're they're a big part
of that. And, you know, she's myrock, my crush, you know,
without my wife and daughter,like, I don't know where I'd be.
I'd probably be in a ditchsomewhere, honestly.

Bryan (29:50):
I thought that myself many times.

Anthony (29:53):
I can really tell you.

Bryan (29:56):
So we've talked a little bit about coming home from
deployments, you know, your fearthat your daughter wouldn't
recognize you, things like that.Another thing that you mentioned
in the book is trying to jumpback into normal routine that
she'd been managing without youfor months. It's a super common
point of friction amongreturning troops after a
deployment. Can you tell usabout this and how you navigated
it?

Anthony (30:15):
Yeah. So, like, little things when you get back, like
the you're like, hey. I'm gonnamow the yard. Last night, I'm
gonna do it. I got it.
Or, like, laundry or, like,whatever. We sort of help each
other out in these our couples.Right? And, you know, I had to
sort of say, okay. She's beendoing this for, you know, four,
six, whatever the case is.
And, like, I'm gonna take a stepback and and ask her where I
could be helpful versus like mejust, you know, doing this and

(30:38):
that, especially with the kidgetting warm back warmed up to
your family is what it is isthere's a honeymoon phase where
everything's all great the firstfew days when you're back, and
then there's a realization ofthat. You know? At least in my
in my experience,

Bryan (30:48):
it was like that. No. I think that's extremely common.
And I think it's important forpeople to hear that because it's
hard because you come home andyou think like, finally, I'm
home. Everything's good again.
Everything is gonna be okay. Andthen, like, there's this
friction because there's allthese adjustments to be made and
they've gotten used to you notbeing home. And like the truth
is that's a good thing becausewhat are they supposed to do?

(31:09):
The whole time you're home,they're supposed to just like
lay around and cry? No.
They have to adjust and theyhave to figure out a way to make
life work without you. But thenyou come home and now it's like
time to reintegrate and it isreally challenging. And I think
it's a good thing for people tohear that and know like if they
go through that, that that'snormal.

Anthony (31:24):
A 100%, yeah.

Bryan (31:25):
Yeah. So we talked about this a little bit, but around
the time that you had yourdaughter, you switched to the h
h h 60 g Pave Hawk helicopter.For listeners, this is a heavily
modified Black Hawk helicopter.Can you tell us about what makes
it different and what itsintended use is?

Anthony (31:41):
Yeah. So the the Paypoc helicopter is I was in the the
forty first Jolly Green or fortyfirst Rescue Squad in the Jolly
Greens. And sort of a littlelittle history, you know, the
Jolly Greens, they got that namefrom the Vietnam rescues where
they would land these twohelicopters in grass pettit
fields. And long story short, itwould look like two green
footprint were there when theyleft, and they had already got
the guy and rescued him. Right?

(32:02):
So a lot of history there, a lotof, you know, like I said, this
history and just a awesomecommunity. And so I was on the
Pave Hawk HH 60, which is like aBlack Hawk helicopter, but
there's all kinds of different,you know, defensive systems,
radars, refueling probes, youknow, hoist, all all this
different, you know, stuff, twodifferent weapon systems. And
basically, you're there for,like, personal recovery.

(32:23):
However, the the times I did it,what we would always usually
train to CASSAVAC, which is morecommon.

Bryan (32:28):
You know? Can you explain what a CASSAVAC is? Yeah. Yeah.

Anthony (32:32):
So a CASSAVAC is like, okay. There's a, let's say
there's a mass casualty, like anIED blast or something like
that. Right? And, you know, theythey call you in to rescue these
guys, basically when there'swhen there there's a hot landing
zone, stuff like that. And Yeah.
You pull these guys out of thesesituations and get them back
within the golden hour, which iswhat that means is, like,
there's an hour to get them backto the operating table usually

(32:53):
because there's a higherprobability of them living. Yep.
And, and, you know, in a fewwords, I can put that in. But,
yeah, it's basically onsomebody's worst day, you're
you're the guy to to get themout of the situation and bring
it back again, you know, sort ofcommon theme here. Like, you
know, you don't ever have to dothis job, but if somebody's
number caught, you wanna be theguy to go get them, you know,
and Yeah.
You know, so they could go seetheir family, you know, and it's
a huge responsibility, you know,being trusted with someone, best

(33:14):
friend's life. Right? And, youknow, that was those guys in
that squadron and gals, man,they were they were truly the
best of me, man. And, like, verynoble, very humble, very
professional, like, probably thebest people I ever met

Bryan (33:24):
in my life. What made you decide to switch to the rescue
aviation community?

Anthony (33:29):
I always had this another common theme with me
was, like, I always felt likeI'd never done enough, man.
Like, I you know, e even ongunships as, you know, as much
in the fight as you are in thatthat aircraft, like, you know,
to me, there was really nothingmore noble than, like, the you
know, pulling someone out savingtheir life, you know. You know,
I I I get it now, especially,like, you don't have to do that

(33:50):
job, but it happens and youwanna be the guy to to rescue
them, man. And, like, to me,there's no more of a noble
cause. Right?
Like the, you know, John 15thirst you know, John fifteen
thirteen in the Bible, you know,I think Jesus says, greater love
hath no man than this, and a manlay down his life for his
friends.

Bryan (34:05):
And Mhmm.

Anthony (34:05):
That's sort of a big motto, you know, that others may
live is is the motto in thatcommunity. And Mhmm. You know,
the pararescueman, you you havethe privilege in order to fly
within the back of yourhelicopters is one of their very
best in the world of what theydo, you know.

Bryan (34:18):
Yeah. Absolutely. I I've worked a little bit with we we
call them SAR techs here, searchand rescue technicians. And ours
are not it's not a combat SARcapability. We don't have that
in Canada, but they do all thesearch and rescue work within
Canada domestically.
And they're incredible people.They're just Oh, yeah. Amazing.
That was actually my goal wasbefore I was diagnosed was to go

(34:39):
and fly search and rescue next.And it's just such an amazing
noble job.
So I can see why you were drawnto it.

Anthony (34:46):
Oh, yeah. And those guys, man, they're the most like
if you ever, like, meet thoseguys, they're the most humble,
like, down to earth. Like, youyou wouldn't know, man, that
they're like, you know, somesuper ninja that's a paramedic.
You know? You're like, man,like, guys are I mean, really
are, you know, in my opinion,our nation's best.
And, like, it was an honor to toto fly and work with those guys.

Bryan (35:03):
You know? Yeah. We we had a tour with the PJs in Ali Al
Salim in Kuwait. A little chanceto sort of see who would come
and get us if something wentwrong. Yeah.
They were amazing. It it waslike

Anthony (35:14):
Oh, yeah.

Bryan (35:14):
I felt so much better afterwards just seeing, like,
how well equipped they were, howwell trained they were. They
were all, like, super fit,amazing, impressive people, and,
like, super humble. It wasreally cool.

Anthony (35:26):
Yeah. And and that whole, like, the, you know, the
special tactics squad, all thoseguys community, like, you know,
they're all like that, man.Mhmm. If you look at those guys,
they have the most pristineuniform when they're not, you
know, when they're not on a, youknow, you know, in combat type
situations. But, yeah, justhumble dudes, man, all that, you
know.
Mhmm.

Bryan (35:42):
And I and I said PJ's there for the listeners. That's,
para jumpers. They're the therescue jumpers who go into
combat zones. Correct. Yeah.

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Bryan (36:20):
So how did your training go in the rescue aviation
community? Yeah.

Anthony (36:24):
It was, it was started off terrible. I you know, coming
from a fixed wing aircraft, it'srare a guy, especially an
enlisted guy, goes from agunship to a, you know, a rescue
helicopter. Right? Like, a fixedwing rotor wing. And if you look
at a helicopter, like, if you'venever been on one, you're like,
you know, besides that one time,like, how does this thing fly?
You know, the little thingslike, you know, the tail rotor,

(36:45):
right? Like, how does that giveme two and a half percent of my
lift, stuff like that? And, youknow, and at this point in time,
you know, the air force hadcreated a, I call it a Swiss
army knife in the sky. And whatI mean by that special missions
aviators now a title. And it'slike, you combined your arrow
gunner with your load master andyour flight engineer on these
different airframes, thegunship, the CV 22, the PAV.

(37:06):
And yeah, so you're doing allthese different tasks and it was
just so much knowledge. And Ithought about it, I was like,
man, I'd had to like studyanything this hard, like I would
be a doctor by now, you know?Like, it was just that level and
depth of like little thingslike, hey, we're a drop of fuel.
Like, get us all the way tocombustion. You'd have to draw
this system out.
You know? Yep. All all all it'sjust that level of knowledge,
you know? And then there's thegunnery, which is realistically

(37:27):
probably 10 to 20% of that job,I'd say. And then then you have
your, you know, alternateinsert, extraction type, you
know, divide like your, yourrope ladder, your hoist, things
like that.
Right. Fast ropes. And you learnall this different stuff at
once, but it, it was a beast,man. I, had a funny moment
during my recommendation ridebefore my check ride. Long story

(37:48):
short, we were in a mini gunpattern.
I'd sit right on the whole timeduring my training, man. And
like, this guy actually I'm,I'm, they were talking about
this. He emailed me the otherday, but I was sitting on the
left side for the first time andI think I had like a burrito or
something just didn't eat right.And, you know, and basically
they teach you to like, youknow, keep your skin up even
with a gun malfunction. And I'mon the mini gun and like the

(38:09):
rounds had, you know, I had somany in the road with the rounds
that went down in the chute.
So I'm hanging out in thehelicopter, you know, with my
mask on, you know, not gettingmy eyes on the train and stuff
like that. And I'm gettingnauseated, like super nauseated,
long story short. Then I justbasically just like, my man, I
gotta puke, bro. And like, youknow, I'm outside. I'm okay.
I'm outside the helicopter. Hehad his door open in the back,
you know, the cabin door. And Iwas like, bro, like that. It,

(38:31):
like, goes back in. It, like,frags him out.
Like, he didn't even sayanything. He sort of leaves me.
Goes, like, you know, one ofthose numbers. And I, you know,
I knew I'd, you know, hookedthat ride, but, felt it. Yeah.
We we joke about it now, but,yeah, you know, and basically,
even that, he was like, man, youhad done this one step right
during your Darming checklist,like, you know, you would have
passed. But basically, he he gotme better, man. He even with all

(38:52):
that, man, he got me you know,worked with me and my my check
ride went really well. You itwas, like I said, the best day
of my life is when I got theDollar Green patch and the
Spectre patch, man. That's a

Bryan (39:02):
pretty huge accomplishment. Those are two
really elite units, really eliteorganizations to be part of.

Anthony (39:10):
Yeah. And I and I, you know, and I basically, I I
wanted both of those. You know?And and then you asked sort of
why I went to helicoptersbecause to me, like, when you
think traditional door gunner,right, where the term the whole
nine yards comes from, like,like, Vietnam. Right?
Like, I wanted to be a door likethat gunner, you know, like that
that person. You know, that itwas about four or five years of
my career approximately, and I Iwas so awesome to be

Bryan (39:31):
in that unit, man. You said the whole nine yards.
What's the connection there withdoor gunning?

Anthony (39:36):
Yeah. I actually had a chief ask me this once. He was
like, Darius, like, what'swhere's the term the whole nine
yards come from? And I had,like, Google near me, you know,
the talk computer. Andbasically, it's like in Vietnam
when they had nine yards ofammunition left Oh.
They're about to run out ofammunition. Yeah. So that's
where the term the whole nineyards comes from, from the
machine gunners.

Bryan (39:53):
Yeah. Oh, wow. I never I I thought it was like a football
term or something.

Anthony (39:57):
That no. Yeah. I I didn't know that till he asked
me. I had to look it up. Youknow, he's about to take my
gunner car, but yeah.

Bryan (40:01):
Oh, wow.

Anthony (40:02):
It was a cool moment. Yeah.

Bryan (40:03):
Yeah. So we're gonna get into a tough story. We're gonna
talk about a Kazavak you tookpart in in East Africa. Yep.
We're gonna talk about06/08/2018.
Al Shabaab militants attacked 40US soft personnel and 800
partner nation forces with heavymachine gun fire and mortars.
Your radio suddenly crackles tolife with scramble, scramble,

(40:26):
scramble. First of all, what wasthis day like for you up to this
point? Where were you at thetime?

Anthony (40:32):
So so we'll just say East Africa. No. That's what I'm
gonna say about that.

Bryan (40:36):
But Oh, yeah. Sure.

Anthony (40:37):
We were holding down yeah. We we were holding down
seven days of a standby twentyfour seven cast of act alert.
Like, basically, we could getalerted anytime to go pick these
guys up and get them out of abad situation. So we, you know,
day seven, you know, I'm at thetalk, and I remember like, man,
I'm exhausted. You know?
Like, I'm gonna go sleep. Sleepwhen you can sleep. Eat when you

(40:57):
can eat. And, you know, we endup taking off, man, right after
the scramble. You know, thatthat moment right when I laid
down, you know, scramble,scramble, scramble, run to the
aircraft.
And we take off more like aright hand bank. And there's a I
could see round impacts, likethe dirt 15 feet above the air.
What it was was we were on theright hand bank and the left
gunner had a runaway gun. Oh.And so, like, yeah, the steer

(41:20):
notch on the 50 cal was, like,worn or something like that.
And, you know, so I could seehis impacts and then
simultaneously I pulled theflare pins, which flares is what
protects us from, you know, IRsurface to air threats, you
know, heat seeking threats.Right? And then, so that was
going on. All this went in thesame minute, and then I'm
hearing broken communicationswith the j you know, the JTAC,
which I can piece togetherwhat's a five line. You know?

(41:43):
So we have a runaway gun. Wehave all of our flares
jettisoned. I could literallyfeel the heat from them.
Surprised I have my eyebrowsleft. And then, you know,
there's this broken five line,you know, from the JTAC and the
the guys on the ground.
And so it's about a fifteenminute flight, man. There's
there's literally a point whereeverything was so chaotic. I'm
like, what the f is going on?Like, I literally said that over
comms. Right?
And, you know, so I take asecond. I'm like, okay. Like,

(42:06):
this is gonna happen. You know?Like, we're gonna get these
guys.
You know, we we get overhead andthe JTAC, what it was was there
was 12 bad guys in the treeline, Auschwab. And, we
basically had to do about fourgun patterns, you know, a
racetrack type pattern, youknow, all four guns on the
target and that he had marked.Basically, we got eight out of
12 of them, you know, enough tosuppress to that point to where

(42:27):
we could land. So we were lead,we land first, and, you know, we
land on this narrow dirt road. Iremember that little bit of a
brownout condition where thedust comes up and all that.
You know, they had put one oneAmerican, you know, near the aux
tanks, and they started givinghim a trick yacht. I mean, then
another green beret beside me,then a a partner nation guy who
had you know, he got shot in theguts what happened to him. And,

(42:49):
you know, we pitched pool,which, you know, we lifted off
right and go right in back tothe gun pattern. And, you know,
Terrell's on the ground pickingup their three cat alphas or two
cat alphas at that point. And,basically, cat alpha means that,
you know, you have to get theseguys back for the golden hour I
was talking about earlier.
And Yeah. You know, so we do, Ithink, a few gun patterns there,
and we get to the point where,okay, we gotta get this guy
back. And we egress the area. Weleave the area, then, you know,

(43:12):
thank God, right when we leftthat, you know, they came behind
us and then, you know, we werein a trail formation on the way
back. And we land, you know, Iget more more bullets from my 50
cal, get more gas, what we callhot gas, which the rotors are
turning and I'm, you know,putting gas back in the
helicopter.
And then we take back off andthen they had one more guy to
pick up. And then basically,they they picked him up, and we

(43:34):
did about multiple gun patternson the same tree line. And I
guess I heard about half half ormore of my rounds at that point.
You know? Basically, I keepthose guys' heads down, man.
And, you know, we egress, getback, and then the experienced
gunner was like, hey, Dyer, youknow, check the, really cool
dude. That dude, awesome guy,man. He, said, hey. Check the
aircraft for bullet holes, know,and I'm looking underneath the

(43:55):
the belly, the tail, all thatstuff. And I come around to the
front and, you know, my aircraftcommander, the pilot, you know,
I could see on his faceeverything that happened and
what happened when the Americangot back.
The the one that was getting thetrach out of me, he got on the
operation table and he ended up,passing away, unfortunately. And
yeah. You know? So I tellpeople, man, like, didn't know
what sacrifice was to that day.You know, you're talking about
someone's brother, someone'sson, someone's friend.

(44:16):
So yeah. Yeah. You know, thatdefinitely 100% sticks with me.
And, you know, it man, it itdoes hurt, man. You know?
But at the same time, like, youknow, that that was our nation's
very best, you know, and and Iwas just proud to even, you
know, be with those guys

Bryan (44:29):
in that moment. It sounds like a really, really difficult
day.

Anthony (44:34):
Oh, I understand. Well, it was to this day, man, I think
about it, it's just, you know,everything that goes wrong and,
you know, went wrong in thefirst minute and then, you know,
that, you know, and it's, youknow, but at the end the day,
like, you know, that that's ournation's best, that guy, you
know? Mhmm. You know, the with,you know, with my children on it
top of men, you know, he's afifth special forces group. But
those are our best, man.

(44:54):
And not like I said, I didn'tknow what sacrifice was or
service before self and towitness that, you know, it's
forever edged in my heart.

Bryan (45:01):
Yeah. I can believe that. It must be really challenging to
be in the back of thathelicopter to have those wounded
comrades in the back there withyou and to see all those sights
and sounds and smells? Like,what's that like?

Anthony (45:15):
Yeah. It's a it's a smell. And, you know, if you
ever smell blood and, you know,some the stuff that comes with
that and the the gunpowder, youyou you never forget it. You
know, I'll say that. And youknow, when the dust settles and
you get back and, you know, andI remember like, you know, they
basically had to wash the cabinand stuff after something like
that.
And, you know, just that moment,man, it's just it hit me like a
ton of bricks, you know? Andthis, you know, the mind is a

(45:38):
very tricky thing too, to whereyou're like, if I'd have been
there, like, you know, oneminute earlier, five minute
earlier, ten minute, like, youask yourself that question.
Like, would I would I would Ihave lived right? Like, you
know, come to find out, like,you know, I'm at peace with it
now and that he got hit directwith a mortar. So, like,
basically, he said, right whenhe got on the operating table,
like, he would have passedanyway, you know, so Mhmm.
It was a yeah, sad day. Butagain, man, it's the best side

(46:00):
of combat search and rescue thanthe worst side.

Bryan (46:02):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the the upside is, like, you guys
had so much going wrong thatday, and you still went and
prosecuted the mission. And,like, who knows how bad it could
have been if you weren't thereOh, yeah. To like, how you guys
said right away you took outeight eight out of 12 or so of
the militants.
Like?

Anthony (46:17):
Yeah. Yeah. It was it was eight out of eight out of 12
guys. They get them and theygave us total there and, you
know, in the end. And it waseight out of 12 on that tree
line.
And, you know, and there wasbasically, you could see our
guys shooting with our, like,you know, even our partner
nation discos, you know, theirlevel of, like, a 50 cal type
thing. Yep. You know, we'reshooting with our 50 cal's, and
it was just, you know, justgiving that tree line hell, you

(46:37):
know, just to just to be able toland to, like, to get those
guys. You know? So it wasdefinitely a a moment that I
never thought I would I neverthought I'd be doing close air
support with a rescue helicopterwith a 50 cal, which is Yeah.
Very, very rare, you know. Butit happened naturally on my
first cast of back ever. So

Bryan (46:52):
Yeah. We've mentioned that the motto of rescue is
these things we do that othersmay live. You guys are coming
into a a hot LZ, a hot landingzone. You say there's tracer
fire all around the helicopter.You know, what's that like?
How does that motto embodied byyour crew's actions?

Anthony (47:12):
Yeah. Yeah. So I remember, like, the the moment
that it sort of hit me, like,we're we're on short final,
basically, you're getting readyto land on this narrow road.
Right? And I could still see,like, our guys shooting the disc
of fire in the tree line and anda couple back and forth.
Right? And, like, man, I waslike, like, this could be it.
You know, this, like, this iswhat I signed up for. This is
that moment, you know, that thatwhole model, these things we do

(47:33):
that others may live, you know,it's it definitely is sunny at
75 when you land in these hotLZs and get those guys, man.
It's it's, you know, it's Irealized what what I realized in
those moments is the days whereeverything's going against you,
man, your comms, your EPs, youknow, that's the day where
everybody that depends on youneeds you to be the very best
you could be, the very bestaviator you could be.
Mhmm. You know? Because if if ifif it was sunny in '75 and it

(47:55):
was easy, then everybody do itright.

Bryan (47:56):
And That's right.

Anthony (47:57):
That's where, like, you wanna be a part of that unit,
and that's what I signed up for,and and it happened. How did you

Bryan (48:04):
keep your composure? You've got wounded allies,
wounded Americans on board. Howdo you keep focused and do your
job during that time? Do youthink it's just your training
takes over? Or

Anthony (48:17):
Yeah. Yeah. And that you're sort of like you've been
there so many times of trainingto where, like, the next thing
you know, man, you're just reactwhat's that saying? Reaction
versus response? Like, you'reyou're you're doing everything
you've trained a million timesto do, and you realize there's a
a moment where, like, this isn'tforeign to me.
Like, I've been here before.I've heard these comms before.
You know? Like, this is this thereal deal, you know? So you sort

(48:38):
of turn that switch on andsuppress the adrenaline as much
as you can or something likethat.
And then, you know, you you dothe best you can with with what
you have, you know?

Bryan (48:47):
Yeah. So as we said, when the dust settled, you learned
that an American patient had notsurvived. And I think you said
that was the the guy who had thetracheotomy. It was. You state
in your book that you were neverthe same after that moment.
Can you tell us about how thisaffected you and what was going
through your head?

Anthony (49:05):
Yeah. So I constantly thought about it, you know, and
I remember there was things,man, like, that I can't even put
in words really. Like, when youhear someone say, hey. Like, you
know, in the camp that we wereat, like, Hey, we need some OSB
board to, to build a casket, youknow? And, and there, and
there's a moment to where likehis brothers, you know, took him
on the, the ramp of the onethirty to get him to, to like
further up in Africa than to,to, know, back to America, the

(49:27):
deceased body.
Right. But yeah, you see thisflag draped over this casket and
these these green beretscarrying this guy. I mean, that
I'll never forget that image,you know, like, like truly our
nation's best, you know, likethe one in the 100 Heraclitus
talks about, right? Like thatguy, you know, and it it came at
a cost, you know.

Bryan (49:44):
Yeah. Yeah. It's I I know a lot of people who were at a
lot of ramps ceremonies inAfghanistan, and that stuff
stays with you. It's like themost clear moment of
understanding what sacrificereally means. And I remember

(50:04):
even one time in Canada when afallen soldier comes home, they
land in Trenton, Ontario, andthen they take this main highway
down to Toronto to the coroner'soffice with the body and the
family is in a limousine.
The the hearse comes through andthere's a there's a convoy with
police escort and the familiesin a limousine and stuff. And

(50:26):
during Afghanistan, what theywould do is the overpasses of
the highway, people would linethem with flags and signs and
stuff to try to support thefamily and to show respect for
the soldier coming through. Iremember one time when I was
like 22, 23, I was drivingthrough that area and I noticed
all these people in theoverpasses and I I was like,
what is going on here today? Andall of a sudden I realized what

(50:48):
it was and I just got so chokedup. I was with a friend of mine,
we pulled over.
We went on to the overpass andwaited too. And when the family
came through, just like tearsstarted coming. Oh, It's such a
real thing to see somebody who'smade that sacrifice beyond that
journey.

Anthony (51:06):
Yeah. Yeah. A 100%. You know? And, you know, the service
before self is one of the airforce core values, and every
branch has core values.
And and I'll be honest, I Inever knew what that word meant
till that day, man. And thatthat guy serviced before
himself. Right? That sacrificethat very tip of the spear that
freedom is is, the price forthat.

Bryan (51:24):
Yep. So this mission earned the USAV's Jolly Green
Rescue Mission of the Year awardfor 2018. What did that mean to
you and your crew?

Anthony (51:35):
So so that's a air force level award. Basically,
the the most, notable rescue,you know, of the year of rescue
mission. Basically, you get itfrom, you know, the the sec av.
I got to see the sec. And allthat, but it it was basically,
it was like, I still thoughtabout the fact, okay.
You know, we saw the best sideof that job, you know, and that

(51:56):
others may live. We got to dothat. And, you know, there is
guys that get to go home and seetheir family, you know, because
of that mission and and, youknow, not just, you know, not my
action, but our teammates, ourteam's actions. Right. And the
team concept behind that.
And it takes everybody, man,from being the bullet, you know,
to get those guys home and thento always have that that somber

(52:16):
reminder, you know, that, like,man, like, the price of freedom
is definitely not free. And thenone eagle, one American when he
got back had passed away. SoMhmm. It was a very, very dull
double edged sword, you know,and it hurts sometimes.

Bryan (52:27):
Yeah. I believe that. I I can imagine that receiving an
award for a mission where theoutcome was not what you wanted
must have been difficult.

Anthony (52:39):
A 100%. Yeah. It was a hard thing to do, you know, and
then but I look at it now andI'm like, man, like, this is all
part of that journey. You know,our scars is what, you know,
defines us, you know. Like, Iused to ignore my scars, you
know, and now I'm a embrace themand say that's a part of my
aviation life.
It's a part of who I am. Mhmm.You know, and I I that's another
reason why I maybe wrote thisstory. I don't know what to to

(53:00):
paint a picture to the rest ofthe world, like, you know,
whether it's America or Canada,like, this is what goes on while
people are sleeping. Right?
Like, this Yeah. You know, thisthis calls for freedom.

Bryan (53:08):
Yep. So eventually, you returned to gunships. After a
slow tour in Iraq, you decidedto retire. Can you tell us about
what led to that decision?

Anthony (53:17):
Yeah. So we did my last trip. Actually, it was on my
twentieth anniversary,07/18/2020. And, you know, I
basically, we get done with thisthree or four month trip and
there's this so slow and thewhole sense of purpose, man, it
was just gone, man. It was justhardly anything.
I only think we shot maybe once,but like, I get back and I'm
just, I hit the retirementbutton. And when I did that,

(53:40):
like, I realized my whole senseof identity, my sense of
purpose, my whole reason forbeing, you know, especially on a
gunship, make sure those guysget home is gone. Mhmm. I dealt
with that hard, man. Like, Ifeel hard.
Like, what started as a, youknow, I know don't if I
mentioned it earlier, but aweekend drinking habit turned
into a pint, you know, of hardliquor at night, at least just
to go to sleep. And, you know,my wife gave me that ultimatum

(54:01):
of, like, you know, me or thekid or the alcohol, and I I
chose my family and, you know,which in turn, I got help with
the, the ESOCOM, you know,psychiatrist there with a
program and, you know, got helpin prolonged exposure treatment.
And, you know, I could say I'm abetter man for that, making that
decision. And, you know, shetold me a 100 times to tell the
story at least, you know, and Isaid no. And right.

(54:21):
And when my last out processingappointment, you get your
realization, you know, like Isaid earlier, you walk out that
door and you realize there's noteven a door handle on the way in
to get back in. Mhmm. You know,symbolic to this machine keeps
going on. And, know, I had toput it all behind me at that
point and, like, realize thismachine goes on, get over myself
Yeah. Quit feeling sorry formyself.
And, like, I talked to apreacher and he was like, you

(54:42):
know, these things happen. Like,you know, I'd lost a lung at
this point, which is not afactor in there with all this.
But, like, he's like, you know,life circumstances can make you
better or bitter. You know? AndI chose better.
And that that's where I am.

Bryan (54:53):
Yeah. Yeah. It is that loss of identity. Can speak from
personal experience is really,really challenging. I think
everyone is gonna go throughthat who spends a sizable even
even maybe if they even do afive year tour.
But

Anthony (55:04):
Oh, yeah.

Bryan (55:05):
Anyone who spends a good chunk of their life in the
military is leaves a hole whenyou leave. There you don't even
realize how much of youridentity is wrapped up around it
until it's not there anymore.And all of a sudden, it's a big
psychological blow to deal withlosing that. And and suddenly
you think, well, who am I now?Like, if I'm not that guy, who
am I?
You know? And you have to findwhere where else do you have

(55:26):
identity in your life.

Anthony (55:28):
Yeah. And it's it's there's little things too that,
you know, like, go walking outof the building and reaching for
my hat. Right? Like, just it wasso so different for me because
all I had known, like, we spent,like, half our adult life in
this thing. Right?
Like, it's

Bryan (55:41):
Mhmm.

Anthony (55:41):
It's crazy, you know? And then all of a sudden, it's
just like a switch that gotturned back off to like, man, I
gotta be a civilian again. Igotta be a normal Joe, Average
Joe. There's nothing wrong withthat. What I will say when I was
getting help, one of the thingsthat the lady said to me, don't
know if it is like, she's like,you know, what what what's your
legacy now?
She's like, okay, all thatstuff's cool. You know? You
know, filing a gunship andarrest you helicopter. That's

(56:03):
cool. Know?
And that was your legacy then,but what's your legacy now? You
know? Mhmm. And the point shewas making, I get it now. Like,
you know, what's important,what's relevant now is is being
the best husband I could be.
That's my mission now, being thebest father I could be. And like
I said, I got caught a lot ofdifferent call sides, man, but
my daughter called me dad. Thatwas the best one, man. I mean
that. You know?
She's she's my pride and joy, sothat's my mission now.

Bryan (56:24):
Yeah. And and I'll be perfectly honest with you,
that's where I found my identityagain as well. It was in in
being a a husband and a fatherand

Anthony (56:31):
Oh, yeah.

Bryan (56:32):
You know, just trying to be a good man and live up to
that, what that means. So Oh,yeah. I'm glad you had that too.

Anthony (56:39):
Thanks, brother.

Bryan (56:42):
Now another mantra you have for yourself that relates
to this time in your life is,how did I make humanity better
today? Can you tell us aboutthat?

Anthony (56:50):
Yeah. So when I, you know, I was drinking real bad
and when I decided to get help,when I was, know, I'm getting
help later, you know, I I lookin that mirror every day, like,
it is a question that's eithergonna be yes or no. Like, did I
make humanity better today? Andit's either yes. Like, I did
something for fellow mans,fellow service members, fellow
Americans, fellow fellowCanadians, whatever the case may
be.

(57:10):
And, you know, or or did I justsit on the sideline and and and
not do anything, just thinkabout myself, you know? And I
realized with that, you know,comes a question, okay, did I
did I break my promise aboutdrinking, you know, today? So
that accountability is it's areal thing. It's a surreal
thing. If you ever if you'reever in that moment, the most,
you know, honest conversation isthe one I have with myself that,
you know, that night.

(57:30):
I'm glad I did it. So

Bryan (57:32):
Yeah. Yeah. I'd like to read a couple powerful quotes
from the book and then ask you aquestion. The first is, it's
hard to hold on to hope andpurity when good people endure
unimaginable pain. And thesecond is, I drank to fall
asleep, drank to be social,drank to escape, and sometimes I
drank because I felt like Iwanted to die.

(57:52):
What do you think led to youbeing in this state?

Anthony (57:56):
I would say that, like, the feeling sorry for myself did
not help at all. You know? Thatthat was dumb on my part. And
then also, like, the identity, II felt irrelevant, man. Like, I
felt like everything that I haddone, as soon as I walked out
that door, and there's nodoorknob, it's forgotten.
Right? It's it's dust in thewind. And, you know, I realized,
you know, I didn't I can't can Iremember my great, great, great

(58:17):
grandfather's name? Probablynot. I can't.
You know? And I just wondered,you know, one day, like, will my
great, great, great grandson orgranddaughter remember my name?
You know? And, basically, Ilearned to live in the moment at
that moment.

Bryan (58:30):
You know what

Anthony (58:30):
I mean? What's important is now, man. What what
can I change at this moment, youknow, to be better?

Bryan (58:34):
Yeah. So we've kind of talked about drinking and
finding your sobriety, butmentally speaking, how are you
doing at this point?

Anthony (58:43):
I'm doing doing really well. You know, I'd, I know I
didn't do the meds thing when Iwas in, and I'll be honest, I I
do meds once I I get out and usethe the veterans affairs and all
that. But I still got, you know,a psychologist there I could at
a moment's notice. And I didcontinue help with a
psychologist when I got out.And, you know, I'm a I feel good
about that.
I'm a better man for that. Andit's just really, like, every

(59:03):
now and then, it's just like amuscle. You gotta work it out,
man. You gotta you gotta bleedthe words on the page, you know?
And I am a I will say take thismoment to say this, that, you
know, every veteran has a story,no matter how big or smart you
think it may be.
Like, I feel better personallyon this platform writing it and
getting it out there. And justlike your your your podcast is
an awesome platform for stufflike this. And, you know, if you

(59:24):
have words in your heart, justjust bleed them on a page and
and tell the world, man. Becausewithout these things, like,
these stories die in the sand.And and I I refuse to let that
happen.
You know? Mhmm.

Bryan (59:34):
Yeah. And it's funny you mentioned meds. I don't know
why, but there's it's likeanother step that's hard. Like,
the first step asking for helpis really hard. Saying, I think
I need to talk to somebody isreally hard.
And then admitting like, hey, Imight need meds too. Like,
that's really hard too for somereason. I was the same way. I
was like, okay, therapy sure,I'm not touching meds. And I am

(59:55):
I'm also medicated and I'm I'mglad I am.
I needed that and that's okay.And maybe one day I won't need
it anymore, but I don't know whythere seems to be like a self
imposed stigma on on going forthat. But you know, it's not
like I think we grew up withthis image of like any kind of
antidepressants turning you intokind of a zombie or Exactly. I

(01:00:16):
was gonna say that. You know,like you're not gonna be
yourself anymore.
I didn't I didn't have that atall. I I just felt better.

Anthony (01:00:23):
Yeah. I I I would say definitely. It took about two
weeks, but they when they kickedin, definitely feel level and,
like, you know, more clarity,more more Yeah. More desire to
get up and do something in themorning, not hit the snooze
button five times. All all theall those meds would help with
that, you know, and I'm I'm gladI take them just like you said
that, you know, like Mhmm.
I couldn't imagine if if Ididn't at this point, you know?

Bryan (01:00:42):
Yeah. Yeah. Another thing you said in the book that I
really liked, that I reallyrelated to rather, was like
things like a car wash beingdaunting. Like, honestly, there
was a point where I felt likemowing the lawn was this giant
task. Doing the laundry feltlike this huge thing that I
can't do.
And it sounds so silly, I think,from the outside looking in, but

(01:01:04):
if you've been there, you getit. You know?

Anthony (01:01:06):
Yeah. It was it was things like that. Like, Walmart
would freak me out pretty bad.You know? Like, I don't know
what it was.
All the different people, allthese different things. Like, it
would just being sort ofenclosed in that car wash, like,
stuff like that. Like, itdefinitely messed with me, you
know? Like, I didn't wanna dothose. Mhmm.
You know, now now I face them.You know? That's the difference
now.

Bryan (01:01:24):
Yeah. I can relate to the it's only this year with the
help of occupational therapiststhat I started doing small
grocery runs again because Idon't know what it is. Like you
said, I don't know if it's allthe people. I think it's partly
like I get overwhelmed if Ican't find something, but it's
just stuff that you, you knowOh, yeah. Triggers that stress

(01:01:44):
response.
Right? And you just gotta find away to work through it, though.
You can't let it control youforever.

Anthony (01:01:50):
100%. It it was so bad to me to a point where, like,
for whatever reason, I I can'treally tell you why I would do
this, but I would time myself toget to work. Yeah. You know?
Like, how how dumb is it?
Like, with a stopwatch. Right?Like and I'm just like, why am I
doing this? Like, these littlethings like that, I just knew I
wasn't me, you know, like Mhmm.You know, whether it was me
putting a constraint on myselffor all the timeline sort of
things we dealt with all theseyears, you know?

Bryan (01:02:11):
Yeah. Yeah. And again, I just think these are important
things to like you and I arealmost just chatting now, but
what was it like for you? Whatwas it like for me? I think it's
important because for anyway,for listeners who are wondering
like, why are they having thisconversation right now?
It's it's really for the peopleout there who might be feeling
the same way. This might notthis part of this episode might

(01:02:32):
not be for you. It might be forthat person who is like getting
really stressed out when they goto the grocery store and they
can't figure out why or gettingoverwhelmed by simple tasks.
Like, you know, if that's youagain, same as the first
episode, we'll put a link in forthe Canadian Forces member
assistance program. And youshould think about why that's
happening.

(01:02:53):
Okay. So we're going to talkquickly about SIFMAP or the
Canadian Forces memberassistance program. This program
is for regular force members,reserves who are on duty during
an incident, and parents andsiblings of CAF regular and
reserve force members who areinjured or who die while in
service. The program providesdirect access to telephone
counseling services twenty fourhours a day, seven days a week.

(01:03:15):
From my own personal experience,you can call or use their online
chat feature to make anappointment.
They then set you up with aprofessional and I believe you
get 10 free mental healthsessions. For more details, I
highly encourage you to GoogleCFMAP, that's C F M A P, and
click on the canada.ca link. Thebeauty of this program is it's
free and confidential, so no onein the CAF will know you used

(01:03:36):
it, not your supervisor or chainof command, and not your doctor.
I don't say that to encouragepeople hiding their conditions
from their doctor. I personallythink it's important to be open
with your doctor about whatyou're going through, but if
you're afraid to ask for help,it's a great way to dip your
toes in the waterconfidentially.
So how do you contact them?Listen closely everyone, take
out your phone and save thisnumber because you or someone

(01:03:56):
you love may need it one day.The number is 60708. Again,
that's 60708. And now on withthe show.
So you say something that wasalmost a breakthrough for me
when it comes to big questionsyou chase in therapy, which is
that seeking answers doesn'tcome with clear resolutions,

(01:04:18):
only moments of clarity. Can youexplain this?

Anthony (01:04:22):
Yeah. So, you know, I asked the question, you know,
why does God let, you know, badthings happen to good people? I
still struggle struggle withthat question, to be honest with
you.

Bryan (01:04:30):
I Of course.

Anthony (01:04:31):
You know, if if somebody knows, please tell me.
And I'm I'm still looking forthat answer, you know. But at
the same time, I realized thatthere is the argument where,
like, God gives some of thosebattles to to his his toughest
people. Right? And the ones thatcould handle it.
And and basically what Irealized is there is a silver
lining, man. If you can getthrough this adversity and, you
know, the whole title ofMoonchild, like, you know, the

(01:04:53):
to me, like, would be no lightwithout some darkness. Right?
There's a 100% illuminites and,you know, that's when the the
moon burns the brightest, in myopinion, on those darkest
nights, man. And that's that'sthe clarity right there.
You know? Mhmm.

Bryan (01:05:06):
Would you say that today you found peace?

Anthony (01:05:10):
Yeah. I I would say I found peace, and I'm, you know,
I'm just just like my biggestfear in the world, right, is,
like, talking about this stuffwith people. And here I am, you
know, on the on this podcastwriting this, you know, talking
to you and the audience, and Ifeel like I face it now and and
I'm content with it. And I feelbetter after telling it, to be
honest with you.

Bryan (01:05:27):
Yeah. Like, writing this book and the topics that you
covered and talking aboutstruggling, talking about
drinking, like, are things thatoften can make someone feel
pretty ashamed. It took a reallevel of vulnerability to write
that. How did you getcomfortable with that? Was that
just that repetition of writingand things like that?
Or

Anthony (01:05:43):
Yeah. So what I would do, man, is every time I wanna
pick up a bottle, man, it'scliche to say, I picked up a
pen, you know, and, like, it itcould be something as simple as
a a, you know, a notepad near mynightstand. Right? And I would
think about something, write itdown, and then in the morning,
wake up, and try to make senseout of all of this, you know,
and then get it to a flow of,like, a a story. You

Bryan (01:06:01):
know? Yeah. So we're coming to the end of the
interview here. Before we closethe show, can you remind our
audience once again how tocontact you for speaking
engagements, collaborations, orthe best way to buy your book?

Anthony (01:06:15):
Yeah. So, the best way to contact me, directly for
speaking engagements would beAnthonyp.Dyer@Gmail.com. And
then as far as the the findingthe book, you can find it on
Amazon, Barnes and Noble,anywhere they sell, books and
and a trademarker media. If youjust look that up with my name,
you'll see a link to the book.And the roots and wings of

Bryan (01:06:34):
a US air force combat special missions aviator. That's
great. And what we'll do as wellis send me the links and we'll
put them in the show notes aswell for our listeners to check
out there on the website aswell. Will do, bro. I appreciate
that.
Alright. So Anthony, that wrapsup our two part chat for today.
Honestly, man, this has beensuch a pleasure and an honor to

(01:06:56):
connect with you to help shareyour story, and just to kind of
I feel like we've formed somecamaraderie here from some
shared experiences, and I reallyenjoyed that. So thank you so
much for being here today, andthank you for sharing your
experiences with us.

Anthony (01:07:08):
Thanks, brother. It's been it's been real, man. I
wanted to to do this for awhile, man. I'm glad we got to
get up, Brian, and thanks for,you know, letting me use your
platform to to get these wordsout. I truly appreciate it.

Bryan (01:07:17):
It was a pleasure. Alright. That wraps up our two
part chat with Anthony Dyer,retired United States Air Force
aerial gunner and author of thebook Moonchild. Now this past
summer, something really coolhappened. Captain John
Livingston was making his wayacross the country with his
family to move from Comox, BC toGreenwood, Nova Scotia.

(01:07:40):
About halfway through thatjourney, as they passed through
Manitoba, John decided to stopby my house to record in our
studio to share his experiencesin flight training as well as
operationally flying the CH oneforty nine Cormorant in the
challenging environment of theRocky Mountains. So tune in next
week to hear that. You don'twanna miss it. Do you have any
questions or comments aboutanything you've heard in this
show? Would you or someone youknow make a great guest, or do

(01:08:03):
you have a great idea for ashow?
You can reach out to us at thepilotprojectpodcast@Gmail.com or
on all social media at at podpilot project. And be sure to
check out that social media forlots of great videos of our RCAF
and mission aviation aircraft.As always, we'd like to thank
you for tuning in and ask foryour help with the big three.
That's like and follow us onsocial media, share with your

(01:08:24):
friends, and follow and rate usfive stars wherever you get your
podcasts. That's all for now.
Thanks for listening. Keep theblue side up. See

Intro (01:08:34):
Engineer, shut down all four. Shutting down all four
engines.

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Episode 79: The Gunner: Life of a USAF Aerial Gunner and flying on the AC130H Spectre Gunship and the HH-60G PAVEHAWK Part 2 - Anthony Dyer

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 79: The Gunner: Life of a USAF Aerial Gunner and flying on the AC130H Spectre Gunship and the HH-60G PAVEHAWK Part 2 - Anthony Dyer