In Part 1 of this two-episode feature, host Bryan Morrison sits down with Capt John Livingston, a CH-149 Cormorant Search and Rescue pilot whose journey to the RCAF was anything but straightforward. Born in Comox and inspired by a family legacy of military flying, John shares how varsity hockey, studies at UPEI, and the demanding environment of RMC’s mechanical engineering program shaped his path toward pilot training.
John walks listeners through Phase 1 and Phase 2 flight training, overcoming intense test anxiety, discovering a passion for formation flying, and learning from instructors who pushed him to become a better aviator. He also reflects on his OJT at 442 Squadron, where exposure to SAR operations cemented his desire to fly the Cormorant.
From the challenges of Phase 3 rotary-wing training to earning his wings virtually during the early days of COVID, this episode explores the skills, mindset, and resilience required to earn a place in Canada’s SAR community.
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Bryan (00:30):
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for departure here at the pilotproject podcast, the best source
for stories and advice from RCAFand mission aviation pilots
brought to you by Sky'sMagazine. I'm your host, Brian
Morrison, and with me here todaystopping in while they drive
across Canada for a posting iscaptain John Livingston.
John is a SAR pilot on theCormorant, previously a four
four two transport and rescuesquadron in Comox BC, and now
(01:20):
heading to four thirteenTransport and Rescue Squadron in
Greenwood, Nova Scotia. John,welcome to my home. Welcome to
the show, and thank you so muchfor taking the time to stop by
today for a chat.
John (01:30):
Thanks so much for having me, Brian. Really excited to be
here.
Bryan (01:33):
So today, we will be talking about John's time flying
in the RCAF and particularlyabout his time flying Tsar on
the Kormorant. But before wejump into any of that, let's go
through John's bio. Captain JohnLivingston was born in Comox BC
while his father was posted tofour zero seven squadron flying
the Aurora. His father, havingserved twenty two years in the
military flying multipleairframes and then continuing
(01:54):
his piloting career incommercial and corporate
aviation, inspired John to lookto the skies. After completing
high school in Southern Ontario,he considered applying to the
military to be a pilot butdecided to pursue a degree at
UPEI initially.
While at UPEI in 2013, Johnapplied and was accepted into
the regular officer trainingplan at RMC to be a pilot. After
(02:15):
completing a degree inmechanical engineering and
playing varsity hockey, pilottraining began. Between phases
of flight training, John woulddo his OJT and Comox at four
four two squadron. Followingphase two in Moose Jaw, John was
married to his wife, Candice,and selected for phase three
rotary. A week after thewedding, John was back in the
cockpit flying the Bell two zerosix and four twelve helicopters
(02:35):
and becoming a winged RCAFpilot.
He was then posted back to fourfour two squadron to fly the CH
one forty nine cormorant. Priorto starting the Cormorant
operational training unit, Johnhad his first child, a daughter,
in 2020, then the OTU in July2021, and operational flying
began in November. Life wasbusy, but life was good. Flying
(02:55):
on the West Coast Of Canada isan adventure every day.
Operational taskings of rescuemissions were slow to come
initially, but then would seemmore frequent and would come in
bunches.
John's second child was born inJuly 2022, following which John
continued to build experience inmaritime extractions as he
prepared for his aircraftcommander or AC upgrade. John
upgraded to AC in the 2023 andled his first operational SAR
(03:18):
mission in January 2024.Highlights of his career since
have included being the deputyair operations officer for the
Comox Air Show in 2024, beingthe CH one forty nine demo pilot
at the Abbotsford Air Show in2024, taking part in SAR X two
thousand twenty four, as well asnumerous rescues. During the
last four years, John has beeninvolved in 83 rescue missions
(03:39):
throughout BC. He has recentlybeen posted at Greenwood where
he will continue to fly theCormorant at four thirteen
squadron.
So let's talk about your earlydays. This is a question we
always like to ask, and webriefly passed over this in your
bio. But where did aviationstart for you?
John (03:54):
The seed for aviation was really planted for me, for my
father. He was a pilot in themilitary for twenty two years,
and he definitely got meinterested in aviation. Also,
got to think of my grandfather,who was a pilot during the World
War II time frame. So both ofthose were Both of those people
were large inspirations for meand definitely got me always
(04:15):
looking to the skies.
Bryan (04:16):
Yeah. Were you in cadets or anything like that?
John (04:19):
No. I really didn't have much flying experience. Tons of
Flight Simulator X time and somevideo games. But, I think I did
maybe two or three hours of,like, one seventy two flying,
Cessna one seventy two flyingbefore joining the military.
Otherwise, fresh.
Bryan (04:35):
Really? It's always interesting to talk to somebody
who had, like, zero experiencebecause at its core, that's what
our flight training system isdesigned to serve as somebody
with no experience off thestreet. So it's cool to see the
system works.
John (04:49):
Yeah, absolutely. When my dad had joined, I think it was
slightly less demand for pilotsat that time, and they were
looking for people that hadquite a bit of flying experience
in order to get in. So he was alittle skeptical at first with
my application that I wouldactually be accepted, but
otherwise, he's been completelysupportive.
Bryan (05:06):
That's awesome. So inspired by your father, you
wanted to pursue a career inaviation and perhaps in the CAF.
Why did you initially pursue acareer at UPEI instead of
joining the military?
John (05:16):
Before deciding to go down the the military avenue, my life
was really dedicated to hockeyat the time. I was playing a lot
of hockey in Southern Ontario,but I I had a girlfriend in
Prince Edward Island, and Iwanted to be closer to her. I
decided to start my studies atUPEI while still playing junior
hockey on the East Coast. Butduring that year and just kind
(05:37):
of seeing where things wereleading, I decided I really
wanted to focus more on mycareer and the part of my life
after hockey. And at that time,I made the decision in
consultation with Candace thatthat I would apply to
Bryan (05:51):
the military and pursue that. Okay. So the girlfriend in
UPEI is now your wife?
John (05:56):
That's right. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's
awesome.
Bryan (05:59):
And so basically, you saw like, okay, I'm not gonna make
it to the NHL, so like I need tofocus on what's next kind of
thing?
John (06:08):
Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't say that I ever really
completely let go of the dream,but I saw that it was definitely
time to start planning for for arealistic future
Bryan (06:16):
Yeah.
John (06:16):
Pursuing education and something that I was really
interested in doing, whichaviation was definitely that.
Bryan (06:22):
So what prompted you to apply for ROTP at RMC?
John (06:26):
So when I initially started talking to the
recruiting center, I was moreinterested in trying to attend a
CVU just for the the pace andhow much time I would have to
dedicate RMC to the wholemilitary education aspect all
rolled up in one in in Kingston.But after talking to the
recruiters at the recruitingcenter and because I wanted to
(06:47):
pursue a degree in mechanicalengineering, they felt that my
application would be morecompetitive if I had indicated
RMC is somewhere that I'd beinterested in attending. Okay.
And I just decided that I wouldwant to go with the most
competitive application I could.And so I would consider going to
RMC and then that's what I wasaccepted for and I was happy to
accept that.
Bryan (07:06):
So like did they get you pumped to go there kind of thing
or
John (07:10):
I wouldn't kind say they oversold it in any way.
Basically they just alluded thatbecause the degree was offered
at RMC that my application wouldbe more competitive if I had
also be interested in attending.
Bryan (07:24):
And you just wanted the best chance possible basically.
John (07:26):
Yeah, essentially. I didn't feel like my education
grades were extraordinary or ormy application for any other
reason was specifically robust.So I just wanted to give myself
every chance.
Bryan (07:36):
Okay. Right on. So let's talk a little about your time at
RMC. You attended Royal MilitaryCollege or RMC under the ROTP
program. What studies did youdecide to pursue and why?
John (07:46):
So like I said, I decided to just go with mechanical
engineering. I've always been aguy interested in taking things
apart and putting them backtogether again and and more of a
numbers guy. So I definitelythought if I was gonna get a
university degree, had a waybetter chance actually pursuing
mechanical engineering orsomething in that domain rather
than an arts degree or somethinglike that.
Bryan (08:06):
Yeah. Did you find that that degree paid off? Like, do
you find that any skills oranything like that kind of still
ended up being useful throughyour career?
John (08:16):
Yeah, absolutely. Being a helicopter pilot, we're we're
working very closely with, youknow, a very complex mechanical
system. So having thatbackground knowledge about the
theories, the fundamentals ofhow different mechanisms are
operating helps me understandthem in my day to day work.
Bryan (08:33):
Okay. Right on. So as always, RMC is a pretty
polarizing subject. How did youfind your time there?
John (08:41):
You know, I think that it definitely can be polarizing for
people and some people don'thave a great experience there.
I'm fortunate that I think I didhave a really, really good
experience. I took advantage ofsome of the opportunities that
RMC has to offer. So I I playeda varsity sport, which is huge,
and tried to get out there andparticipate in some of the
(09:03):
opportunities that RMC has tooffer. I saw some of the cadets
at the college participatingmuch less.
And I think that going down thatroad, it's much more of a
struggle. Yeah. You know, it'sobviously a new adventure for
people going to university,period. Yeah. And then adding in
the whole military component ofit.
If you don't have good outlets,good friend group, and doing
(09:26):
other things that you'regenuinely interested in, I think
it can be a very challengingplace.
Bryan (09:30):
Yeah. I believe that. I went to CVU
John (09:33):
Okay.
Bryan (09:33):
And I was definitely like, nope. I I don't need to
add the stress of the militaryto my time in university.
John (09:41):
Yeah.
Bryan (09:42):
There are definitely times where I thought it would
have been pretty cool to gothere. Like, I think the sense
of camaraderie and the kind oflike what's the word? I don't
know. You're part of a you'repart of a bigger group of
people, right, who've graduatedfrom somewhere special and I
think that that's really cool.How did you find FIOP or first
year orientation period?
John (10:00):
Well, with all the athletics, I was reasonably fit
going into it. So I think thathelps. I think, you know, the
better shape you are in gettingthere, obviously, it's very
physical for that that firstyear orientation period. Every
morning you're getting up quiteearly to do PT, physical
training outside, working onobstacle courses, teamwork. So
(10:21):
having spent so much time in ateam environment, it was pretty
natural for me.
It was definitely an adjustment,the early mornings, late nights,
and the whole military mindset.But overall, I don't think it
was too bad. What do you
Bryan (10:33):
think was the hardest part of those days?
John (10:36):
RMC in general or first year orientation?
Bryan (10:38):
Let's say RMC in general.
John (10:40):
At times, balancing hockey and my studies and everything
else going on was challenging.
Bryan (10:48):
Yeah. So like time management?
John (10:49):
Yeah. Time management and also having the opportunity to,
you know, go out and blow offsome steam with my friends.
Yeah. Managing all of that wasdefinitely challenging at times.
Bryan (10:58):
Yeah. For sure. What did you take from your time at RMC
that helped you later in thecockpit?
John (11:04):
Something that I took away, and I think that it does
apply in the cockpit, but justgenerally also in life, is that
you really get out of thingswhat you put into them. And at
RMC, I saw, you know, for thegraduation parades and and some
of the more significant momentsat the school, that took a lot
of effort from everybody to makethose ceremonies feel special.
(11:24):
Yeah. And so I tried to rememberthat throughout that if you
really want something to feelspecial for somebody or you want
something to be significant,then you have to put that effort
in.
Bryan (11:34):
Yeah, for sure. And I mean, if you think about
graduation parades, wingsparades, mess dinners, all those
things, like, I think whenyou're a student and you go
through them, you're like, it isa special thing, right? And
you're like, wowed. But you'reright, like taking time to
appreciate what people are doingfor you because those
instructors go to a mess dinnerlike every couple weeks, right?
(11:57):
And there's a grad every couplemonths.
And the RMC instructors, like,they they go to grads every
year, but they try to make yoursspecial. Right? Like
John (12:07):
Yeah. Absolutely. So the specific occasion I'm thinking
of is the graduation parade atthe Royal Military College.
Every year, once classes andexams are all finished,
everybody at the school spendsweeks prepping for the
graduation ceremony and thegraduation parade. And when
you're a student, you're not theone graduating, it feels like it
sucks.
(12:27):
You're on the parade square allsummer and it's super hot and
you don't want to be there. Butthen when you're on the other
end of it and you're thegraduate everyone's there lined
up for you that you've beengoing to school with for the
last four years, it's a supersignificant milestone to mark
Yeah. That feels super special.So it's it really sort of shows
what I said about gettinggetting out of what you put into
(12:48):
something. Yeah.
Bryan (12:51):
So let's move on to talking about some of your
flight training, specificallyphase one. How did you feel as
you arrived for phase one flighttraining, especially as somebody
with no experience?
John (13:01):
Yeah. I felt I definitely felt some anxiety, little bit
nervous, super excited. Thepeople and this is a theme
throughout my pilot training andmy whole military career. The
people around me were alwaysfantastic. So having such a good
group of people there reallyhelped to to quell that anxiety.
We had a lot of fun together andyou you spend the first few
(13:22):
weeks, you know, in groundschool learning how am I gonna
do You know, you're almostalready comparing yourself
against these people, but thenalso making friendships. And so
seeing that I was able to besuccessful in the exams for the
ground school portion, thingswere going okay, it gave me hope
that I was gonna be able to dothis once we actually got in the
cockpit. And and then started toto ease a little bit. And then I
(13:44):
I just did my best to kind ofenjoy it and and do my best. And
I felt like if I did my best,whatever outcome, you know, was
was the outcome at the end, Iwould be okay with.
Bryan (13:54):
So it's funny you say that because I was, like, super
stressed during phase two. I Iskipped phase one Okay. Because
I had a commercial multi IFRfrom school. Nice. So I went and
went into phase two withoutcertain amounts of experience.
Like, I had no idea aboutanything to do with military
flying, never done aerobatics,like a lot of that kind of
stuff. But the biggest thingthat was like a watershed moment
(14:18):
for me was when I realized thatall I can do is my best. And if
I can walk away, even if itdoesn't work, if you can walk
away with your head held highand say, I did my absolute best,
like I didn't leave anythingbehind. There's no like the last
thing you want is like for itnot to work out and you're like,
man, I really could have workedharder.
John (14:38):
Yeah. So, on phase one, I was so ignorant in a way that I
was just doing my best and happyto be there. Yeah. Whereas once
I had sort of proved myself forphase two, I think that that
made me even more anxious onphase Yeah. Two a little
Bryan (14:49):
Okay. I got a question about that in a bit and I'm
interested to hear more aboutthat. Do you remember what your
first impressions were of RCAFflight training?
John (14:58):
I remember my first my my primary instructor first flights
with Liam Marcoux on the Globehaving just a great time, such a
fantastic instructor. Just lovedloved being airborne. At times,
it was almost difficult to focuson what the lesson was because I
was just having so much funbeing up in the air. Yeah. But
but yeah, was a greatopportunity.
(15:19):
I had a lot of fun and justwanted to keep keep flying. Just
wanted to be up in the sky asmuch as possible.
Bryan (15:25):
Yeah. And it's so great to hear, you know, it's really
easy not to have fun as crazy asthat sounds when you have flight
training, especially in the airforce when the pressure's on.
Like a lot of people, you you'veprobably seen those students,
right? Like they're super superstressed out. They're walking
around with their shouldersslumped.
Yeah. Like they're reallyworried about failing out or
(15:48):
their next flight or their nexttest or whatever it is. It's so
easy to forget to have fun. Andmeanwhile, you're flying these
airplanes that like I guaranteethat 90% of our listeners would
kill just to go for a ride in.
John (16:00):
A 100%. Yeah. I felt so lucky, so fortunate to be there
the whole time. And and I'lltalk about it more when we get
to some of the later phases.There were times where I
definitely felt stressed out.
Yeah. But fortunately, on onphase one, I think a large part
of that comes from the tone myinstructors said in the cockpit.
It was an awesome learningenvironment. I really enjoyed
it.
Bryan (16:17):
What do you think was like your biggest challenge on
phase one?
John (16:20):
On phase one, I think I wanted to be, you know, like a
high performance pilotimmediately and just kind of,
you know, taking it easy,walking, crawling, walking
before I ran was important. Notthat I was ready to run right
out of the bats, but I think Iwanted to anyways.
Bryan (16:35):
For sure.
John (16:36):
So just slowing things down and really focusing on the
fundamentals and and kind oflike taking the time to to
become a competent pilot beforetrying to get into more advanced
stuff.
Bryan (16:46):
Yeah, that makes sense. It is it is tough, like if
you're a high achiever overperformer, like most pilots tend
to be, especially in themilitary. It is tough to
realize, like, gotta be humbleand start with the basics and
like, I remember gettingfrustrated one time when a sim
instructor in Moose Jaw waslike, I was flying an ILS and I
(17:09):
was having a little bit oftrouble with the vertical
guidance. And ILS for thelisteners is instrument landing
system. It's just a thing thatguides you to the runway in bad
weather.
And he he was like pausing thesim and like, okay, you need to
we need to nail this down. Andlike, I remember at first
feeling really frustrated, like,but I have I had a like, not to
sound cocky. I probably was alittle cocky at the time. But I
(17:30):
was thinking to myself, like, Ihave a civilian instrument
ticket. I know how to fly anILS.
But he did make me way better atflying the ILS, and I should
have been probably more humbleat that moment and accepted
like, hey, the basic buildingblocks are what you work on
first and like you can worryabout your advanced stuff when
you get to it. But during the Iduring like the instrument
(17:51):
flight phase, you need to befocusing on instrument flight
and perfecting that phase you'reon.
John (17:55):
For sure. I've always been really appreciative of those
instructors that are like veryparticular and force you to be a
better pilot
Bryan (18:01):
For sure.
John (18:01):
And really be detail oriented. That's something that
I've always tried to take away.
Bryan (18:04):
Yeah. Yeah. How did phase one go for you overall? I don't
remember in fact where
John (18:11):
I kind of ended up in the rankings of the course or
anything like that. I rememberdoing well. I don't think I was
the top of the course oranything like that. I just
remember being happy, yeah, thatI got through it Yeah. And that
I was successful and that I wasmoving on to phase two.
Bryan (18:27):
Yeah. And realistically, phase one, all that matters is
if you pass. Like Yeah. Toppingyour course is nice, but it
doesn't get you any Mhmm.Anything like bonus points or
John (18:36):
Absolutely.
Bryan (18:36):
It doesn't help you get selected on a certain aircraft
or any of that. That all comeslater.
John (18:40):
So Yep.
Bryan (18:41):
So in between flight training courses, you did your
OJT in Comox, BC at four fourtwo Transport and Rescue
Squadron. Can you tell us aboutyour OJT experience there?
John (18:50):
Yeah. I was lucky while being unlucky. So at the Royal
Military College, often betweenthird and fourth year, you'll
get to do your phase one, yourprimary flight training. There
were so many pilots in my year,there weren't enough slots for
everybody to actually dotraining. And they said, hey,
John, unfortunately, we don'thave a spot for you this summer
to do phase one training.
(19:10):
So we're gonna send you on onthe job training. You can pick
whichever base you wanna go to.I was born in Comox, but I
hadn't been back since thenineties. I've always heard it's
a beautiful place, superinterested. I said, I want to go
to four forty two Squadron.
Bryan (19:24):
So is this before phase one?
John (19:26):
Yeah. I actually spent a summer there before phase one
Bryan (19:28):
initially.
John (19:29):
And then I went back after phase one between phase one and
phase two, and kept going back.
Bryan (19:33):
Both times at 04:42?
John (19:35):
That's right. Yeah. The four forty two is actually the
only squadron I've ever been to.That's crazy. That's so far.
Soon to make four thirteen inthe second. But it was it was an
awesome opportunity. Definitelygot me interested in the star
mentality, seeing howoperational the squadron was,
but then also, you know, putsuch a premium on the training,
(19:56):
making sure everybody wasoperating at the highest
performance they could. And justthe camaraderie and the pride at
that squadron definitely gothooked. Yeah.
What was your job there? Sogenerally F-four 42 OJTs come in
and they'll work at the opsdesk. So that's kind of the hub
of the squadron. You really getyour finger on the pulse of
(20:16):
everything that's going on. Alot of communications that come
into the squadron, whether it'sjust people calling into the
squadron, know, you're directingthe call or you're you're
forwarding emails.
But in that, you kind of youknow, you get little pieces of
information about what's goingon all over the place. So it
really gives you a good sense ofhow the squadron runs Mhmm. And
really gets you introduced to tokey people around the squadron.
(20:38):
It's a it's an awesomeopportunity for somebody that's
just getting into the militaryto really kind of see how the
whole organization runs.
Bryan (20:44):
For sure. Did you get a chance to do much flying there?
Like, did they take you up much?
John (20:48):
They were awesome to offer. Whenever there was, you
know, an extra person or two atthe desk, they would be more
than happy to say, hey, when doyou guys want to come flying
today?
Bryan (20:55):
It was still the buff. Right?
John (20:56):
Yeah. Got to take a couple of flights on the buff, which is
amazing seeing that that oldbeautiful aircraft. Did it get
you
Bryan (21:01):
in the seat?
John (21:02):
I remember flying briefly one time while we were on an IFR
clearance. So I didn't reallyget to turn or do anything.
Still you flew But I was upthere.
Bryan (21:11):
That's pretty cool.
John (21:11):
Touch the controls. Yeah, it was an incredible machine.
Super cool. I'm super happy tohave been able to do that. And
then also I got to fly in theKorm a bunch.
I can't remember getting hoistedvery much as an OJT, but I do
remember often being a casualty,simulated casualty for the
search and rescue technicians
Bryan (21:28):
Oh, yeah?
John (21:29):
To come and they were poking me with IVs. Like for
real? Oh, yeah. They would givegive you your like Saline or
whatever. Yeah, exactly.
Just some saline. They reallyappreciated being able to
actually practice that for real.And then simulated broken limbs
or whatever, chest pain, stufflike that. So yeah, that was
really fun.
Bryan (21:46):
Man, that sounds like a lot of fun.
John (21:48):
I think my first day there at the squadron, I had an IV
going in each arm. Two Sartecswanted to race. We could get one
get one started faster.
Bryan (21:56):
That's hilarious. Did working at four forty two
inspire you to fly SAR aircraft?
John (22:01):
Definitely. Being there, seeing how the people operated,
seeing how the level ofcommitment, how operationally
minded everybody was, gave me aton of interest in being at a
place like that. I definitelywanted to be somewhere where
there was such team cohesion,where everybody was pursuing the
(22:23):
same objectives. I wasdefinitely very interested in
coming back to four four two.
Bryan (22:27):
Yeah. And as you know, I just spent the last week in
Comox with four four two,spending a couple days with four
four two squadron. And I got alittle taste of that, and I have
to say, like, probably the SARworld doesn't need any help
recruiting, but my gosh, like,if if I could go back, I would
want to be part of SAR. In fact,that was gonna be my next
(22:48):
posting
John (22:49):
Oh, yeah.
Bryan (22:49):
In Trenton. But I I think the SAAR world is amazing.
Everyone I met was so positive,so mission focused, so
motivated. Like, it was justreally, really impressive. Like,
I haven't seen such a bunch ofhardworking yet very happy
people in a squadron maybe ever.
John (23:10):
Yeah. Everybody definitely wants to be there and is very
driven and happy to be there. Soit's a really enjoyable place to
work.
Bryan (23:15):
Yeah. And it and it helps that you're in Comox, has which
got to be one of the mostbeautiful places I've ever been.
John (23:19):
It doesn't hurt. One of the biggest challenges is always
picking which hobby you want todo that day. Yeah.
Bryan (23:26):
What's a key lesson about SARA that you learned at four
forty two Squadron that youstill use to this day?
John (23:32):
I think I might use this as like a bit of a public
service announcement, becausesomething that I've really taken
away from SAR flying is is howmuch preparation can be
important when you are doingadventurous activities in the
wild kind of a way in remoteareas. Just leaving somebody
with a plan of what you're gonnabe doing, where you are, taking
(23:55):
some extra seconds to have agood plan and then a plan if
things don't go to plan. Havemaybe a personal locator beacon
or like a Garmin inReach. Peopleknow where you're gonna be and
have check-in times. Things likethat can really really make a
big difference if things don'tgo as planned.
And with that also, somethingthat's really become obvious to
(24:18):
me is searching for people inwater is super challenging. I
did the sailing course alsowhile I was in Comox. And this
is something that Every time Iwas going on the water, I would
think about. And I would try tomake sure I would dress in
bright colors and then likeflotation, having my PFD close
by was always important to me oror wearing it while sailing
because searching for somebodyin the water that is difficult
(24:42):
to find because their clothingis not brightly colored or they
don't have a life jacket. It itliterally makes the difference
between life and death.
Yeah. So I I would highlyrecommend to to make those
considerations before whateveryou're doing. Go out there and
have fun, but but have a goodplan.
Bryan (24:57):
Yeah. Having practiced a little bit of searching, on the
Aurora, totally agree. Like weused to every now and then drop
a sonoboy down and then at thetop of a sonoboy is like a
triangular float
John (25:10):
Okay.
Bryan (25:10):
Bright orange at at the surface. And I think they call
it a witch's hat. And we wouldsometimes use that to simulate a
person. And even though it was abright orange thing in the in
the water, it's very hard tofind. Like, the aircraft is
moving.
The ocean is vast. Mhmm.Something that is pretty big in
(25:31):
real life from even a 100 feetlooks pretty small in the water.
So I totally agree with that.
John (25:39):
Yeah. Yeah. It can it can be super challenging and more
than anything in that situation,we just want to find what we're
looking for. Yeah. So
Bryan (25:45):
And usually And that's in like, you know, that was not
even in crazy conditions. Right?Like, once the sea state comes
up, it's crazy.
John (25:54):
Yeah. If if the weather turns or if the water is moving
at all, it makes it a completelydifferent game. Yeah. Way more
challenging, absolutely.
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Bryan (26:32):
So let's, jump back into talking about your flight
training. We'll talk about phasetwo. So now that you've gone
through phase one, you need tomake it through phase two flight
training. You're one step closerto achieving those dreams. So
did you find that having afather who was an air force
pilot added pressure?
John (26:48):
Honestly, I didn't really find any extra pressure because
of that. I think all of thepressure that I that I did feel
throughout the course was selfimposed for the most part. My,
my dad was very supportivealways and always happy and
wanted to chat about what I wasup to and hear about my flights
and get the debrief. So that wassuper fun. And he would give me
his little tidbits of knowledgeinstruction that I would maybe
(27:11):
or maybe not listen to.
But that was super fun and Inever really Can't really say
that I ever felt extra pressurebecause of it.
Bryan (27:17):
Yeah. That's good because I had peers who's like Like I
had a good friend of mine comesto mind, I won't name him, but
and he did succeed in the end.But he wanted to be a fighter
pilot so bad and his dad hadbeen a fighter pilot and you
would see him get towards tests,like very nervous. And he was a
great pilot, But he just gotsuper like, I I swear I can
(27:40):
remember him looking like paleand like shaken basically.
John (27:44):
Mhmm.
Bryan (27:45):
And it I don't know how he got over it because he did
become a fighter pilot andAwesome. And did quite well. But
I've seen that that when youhave like heritage in the
military, I've seen that addpressure to people before.
John (27:59):
Yeah. Understandably. I feel fortunate that I didn't put
that pressure on myself. Not tosay that I Like I said, I did
have a lot of pressure anddefinitely had lots of test
anxiety. Yeah.
But I I just didn't perceive itcoming from there.
Bryan (28:12):
Do you want to talk about that now? Like, how was that for
you? You said you had a lot ofself induced pressure.
John (28:17):
Yeah. I wanted to do well. I definitely had test anxiety
throughout my pilot training.But on phase two, I really
enjoyed the idea of formationflying and I really wanted to be
a really good formation pilot.So I put a lot of pressure on
myself for that phase of it.
It's also the last phasecompleted. So it was at the end,
(28:41):
you know what I mean? It was thelast hurdle to get past and I
wanted to do well with it. Sowith that, I think I really
loaded up the pressure onmyself. And for formation
flying, I'm sure anybody that'sdone it will know that it's
something you need to be reallysmooth for and you wanna be
smooth on the controls.
And I was punchy on thethrottle.
Bryan (29:01):
So
John (29:02):
it made it challenging, I was able to hang in there. But
it's something I wish I couldhave done more of actually. It's
super fast on phase two. I thinkyou do six hours, something
Bryan (29:11):
Something like like that, six or seven or something.
John (29:13):
Type formation flying. And I would have loved to have an
opportunity to do ten, fifteenhours of it. Yeah. Because it
was something that I was onlybeginning to feel comfortable
with, if I can say that at theend.
Bryan (29:23):
Yeah. I agree. I would have loved to do more too. I
think that was maybe Like, lowlevel nav was really cool. Yeah.
Absolutely. Formation flying isjust like such a unique thing,
like, flying that close to anaircraft, the precision that it
takes and the Yeah. The skill.And like like you said, you have
to be really smooth. It's fun.
(29:43):
And it's like a it's like awhole different skill from all
the rest of flying. Like Yeah.Absolutely. And it's something
that you really have to work onto get decent at. And like you
only kind of start to be decent.
Like like they don't even takeyou into any of the advanced
maneuvers. Right? Like 60 degreeturn, I think is the most you do
on that.
John (30:01):
Yeah. Very basic. Just just maneuvering around, just
just holding, maintainingformation basically and some
rejoins, very simple rejoins.But but just the basics.
Bryan (30:09):
Yeah. It was cool. How did you find flying the Harvard
two overall?
John (30:14):
I love that machine. I remember the first time taking
off, climbing away from MooseJaw. I said, I think the
instructor probably even heardit. I was like, I need to get
one of these. That machine'samazing and it's so cool to have
the opportunity to fly anaircraft with World War II war
fighter performance, tandemseating, bubble cockpits, super
(30:34):
high performance.
It was a blast to fly. Really,really enjoyed it. I remember
initially, because of the torquefrom the prop getting back from
those like one point zero onehour flights, one and a half
hour flights and feelingexhausted
Bryan (30:47):
Yeah.
John (30:47):
Took its toll. But you get used to it after a while and,
yeah, it was an amazingexperience.
Bryan (30:52):
Yeah. Lot of people get very fatigued or airsick Yeah.
At Harvard. I totally agree withyou. I've said it many times.
The Harvard is like as close asyou can get to flying a World
War two fighter on a modern airaircraft, I think. And it's just
awesome.
John (31:07):
So much fun.
Bryan (31:08):
It's a great plane.
John (31:08):
Just think about where you want to go and it'll go there.
Yeah.
Bryan (31:11):
Yeah. Other than that self induced pressure, did you
have any particular challengeson phase two?
John (31:18):
I think that, the pace of the course itself, I We would
Coming on the end of it, doubleturn, so two different sorties
in a single day. Often it wouldbe one The first sortie would be
an IFR trip, and then the secondwould be a low level nav. And so
finding the time to prep for thenav route and make sure that I
can deliver an appropriatebriefing for that was
(31:40):
challenging balancing the paceof the course coming on the end
of it. And then also thepressures that I mentioned, I
definitely would get quite a bitof anxiety coming up to test. At
this point, you're thinkingabout your selection, what
airframe you might be flyingafterwards.
So definitely started to putsome pressure on myself with all
of that. And then like I said,the formation flying coming on
(32:00):
the end. I would have liked tohave had more time and and, you
know, been a bit more proficientwith it.
Bryan (32:05):
Yeah. Yeah. It's a tough course and that that pace of the
course, like you said, is can bevery challenging, especially if
you're doing like, you're doingdecent, they'll really push you.
And I mean, even if it's even ifbasically as long as you're
passing, like they might bedouble turning you because like
there's a there's a schedule tobe maintained and you need to
graduate on x day and Yeah. Youknow, it's pretty amazing how
(32:27):
they manage to, across theschools, keep very tightly to
those graduation dates.
John (32:35):
Yeah. Absolutely. And there's a few bit more than a
100 students that graduatethrough Moose Jaw annually.
Exactly. So they get them getall those students through
there.
And I don't wanna say you'rejust a number because there are
those personal interactions, butit's a bit bigger of a machine
than the phase one training, Iwould Yeah.
Bryan (32:56):
For sure. What is the biggest lesson you learned from
phase two that continues toinfluence you as a pilot today?
John (33:02):
Something that I really took away from phase two was
prepping for things, taking theappropriate amount of time to be
prepped for check rides or justday to day flying and putting in
that sort of effort. And oneother thing that I really,
thought about a lot was the factthat there were certain
instructors day to day becauseon phase two you fly with a
(33:22):
number of different instructorpilots. And one day you'd fly
with a pilot and you'd feel likea rock star, one of the best
pilots, the best flying you'vedone. And then the next day you
have a different pilot and forwhatever reason, you know the
vibes in the cockpit aren't thesame and it stresses you out and
you feel like you can't performeven close to that the pilot you
were yesterday. And that's sortof something I've taken away and
(33:44):
thought about, especially as I'mmoving into instructing pilots
on the corner now.
But being a pilot that promotesthe other pilot being the best
they can be. What kind ofattitude can I have to make sure
the guy sitting beside me isflying at his best?
Bryan (33:59):
That's a really interesting concept. I haven't I
don't think I've encountered toomany people like a lot I've
encountered lots of amazingpeople doing this show who, you
know, obviously want to helpeveryone around them be the
best, but I think that'sinteresting to like very
consciously in that while you'reflying, just kind of say like,
how can I best enable thisperson to be the best pilot they
(34:21):
can be? That's awesome.
John (34:22):
Yeah. It's definitely Like like I said, it's something I
really took away. It wouldalmost frustrate me that there
was people I like them. I gotalong well with them. They're
awesome instructors.
I I don't know if it was apressure I put on myself, but
but definitely there were peoplethat I felt I performed better
with and I try to take away, youknow, what enabled that.
Bryan (34:38):
Yeah. For sure. It's pretty common, like, some people
get nervous with certaininstructors. Some instructors
have a reputation as being toughor
John (34:46):
Absolutely.
Bryan (34:46):
You know, people will say like, oh, what is that
instructor? Like, what what aretheir gotchas? Like, what are
they gonna try to get you on andstuff? I know for me on phase
two, I just tried to pretendthat every instructor was the
same and just really tried totake that out of the equation
for like mental performance forme. And I think I was able to do
that pretty well, but it's noteasy.
Especially if you know you'reflying with someone who like,
(35:08):
you know, failed someoneyesterday or something like
that.
John (35:10):
Yeah. Absolutely. People will start to get those
notorious reputations Yeah. Evenif they're not always deserved.
Bryan (35:15):
Yeah. For sure. When you finished your course, you were
selected to fly helicopters. Wasthat what you wanted?
John (35:22):
You know, it I was very uncertain at that time about
what direction to go in.Helicopters wasn't my first
choice for selection after phasetwo. And I was very lured by the
high performance flying and, youknow, potentially flying jets
one day. Kind of a flip side tothat story would be that I I
(35:45):
really did wanna fly the Qormranand fly helicopters, but there's
so few people selected to flythe Qormran annually that I felt
like it was a bit of a roll ofthe dice. So it I felt like
maybe flying the Harvard againand pursuing potentially, you
know, fast jet stream would be agood fit.
And if it didn't work out, I Iwas actually interested in
(36:08):
potentially being sort of apipeline instructor as well.
That Okay. Wasn't something thatI was overly, dissuaded from
doing. So that kind of directedmy selection. But, when I was
selected helicopters, I wassuper excited about that.
Bryan (36:22):
Yeah. It's tough. I had a guy on my course, a really good
friend of mine who I stillremember we were sitting at the
Humpty's in Moose Jaw. Iremember the day he decided that
he was gonna go. He was like,the only helicopter I want is
cormorants.
And I But I'm But I know there'sonly like one slot for them, but
I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna gofor it. And he did get
cormorants.
John (36:42):
Yeah. In hindsight, that's the direction I would definitely
push people to take. Yeah. Ithink just always pursue what
interests you the most.
Bryan (36:50):
Yeah. Don't You don't have to go the safe route.
John (36:52):
Yeah. I I mean, I did feel like maybe if I did an
instructional tour at that I'dhave a chance to switch over to
Qorman, you know, something ofthat nature. But, if there's
something that, know, you'vebeen working so long to do, I
would definitely try andpersuade everybody to follow
that dream.
Bryan (37:07):
Yeah. I like to ask questions about this when I get
a chance, especially if somebodykind of puts more personal info
in their bio. After phase two inMoose Jaw, you got married to
your wife, Candice. Now phasethree is a long and challenging
course for helicopter students.So how did you balance your
personal and professional lifeat that time?
John (37:25):
So my wife has been super supportive of me. Kind of when I
decided to join the military, Iwouldn't say it was a decision I
made, it was kind of a decisionthat we made that she would
support me through the trainingand becoming a pilot in the
military. So it was kind ofunderstood going into it that it
was gonna be a challengingprocess that I'd have to
dedicate a lot of time to. So oncompleting phase two, we had
(37:47):
obviously been planning for awhile to get married and it
turned out it was quite tighttimeframe between phase two and
phase three. So we made the mostmade the most of that.
And then getting back on course,Candice has just always been so
supportive of of my career anddoing everything she can to make
sure that I'm successful throughthat. Yeah, we've been a team
(38:08):
throughout it all. So I'm reallyproud of that.
Bryan (38:10):
Yeah. And I would say like, especially when I talk to,
let's say like a general orsomething sometimes and they
still are with their spouse. Theones who are who make it are the
ones who approach this as a teamand like they're not just out
making decisions by themselvesand, you know, the wife and kids
can deal with it and likethey'll, oh, they'll be fine.
Like it's team decisions. It'syou discuss like the next you
(38:32):
discuss the next bound whetherthat's a posting or a new
position you wanna pursue orwhatever it might be.
So, yeah, it's good that youguys kinda started that way from
the get go even when, like yousaid, when it came to like, are
you gonna join the military?
John (38:46):
Yeah. It is a huge commitment to join military.
Bryan (38:48):
For both people?
John (38:49):
Exactly. And I can totally see why, you know, when when one
partner in the relationshipdoesn't feel like they were
considered in that decision,that could put a lot of stress
on a on a relationship. So thefact that, you know, we
knowingly went down this roadtogether, I think helped. And
then we just have like afortunately super strong
relationship and I'm super happywith how she's been able to to
(39:10):
step up all the time when I needher to.
Bryan (39:11):
Yeah. That's awesome. So a week after you were married,
you were back in the cockpit forphase three rotary wing
training. Did you find it toughto shift back into work mode so
soon after your wedding?
John (39:22):
We had about a month off between phase two and phase
three and I got married rightnear the end of that just before
going back on to phase three.And it happened so quickly that
I I got married and then we hada couple of days and then I was
driving back across the countryto Portage to start phase three.
I don't even know at that timethat the whole fact that I had
just been married really evenhad a chance to sink in.
Bryan (39:43):
Yeah.
John (39:44):
And then because I had that drive, I kind of got
refocused back into that pilottraining mindset. And then in
Portage, I was removed from thatwhole environment once again.
Yeah. And so I was reallyfocused at that time on my pilot
training again. And because Iwas flying helicopters and
wanted to get into thecormorant, which is a
challenging cockpit to get into,I really wanted to throw myself
(40:07):
into that course and just try tocompletely focus on that.
Fortunately, we had an amazingsummer of weather in Portage. I
guess that would have been in2019. And we were able to get
through the two zero six phaserelatively quickly about a three
to four week gap betweenfinishing the two zero six and
getting on the four twelve.
Bryan (40:27):
That's awesome.
John (40:28):
So I was able to take some leave and Candice and I actually
went on our honeymoon at thattime. Oh, where'd you go? We
went to Aruba. Nice. Had a greattrip.
It was super fun. So so I gotto, you know, break up the
course a little bit and spendsome time with her and and that
was awesome.
Bryan (40:40):
Yeah. So you guys were IR at that time or Which is for
listeners is imposedrestrictions. So that's when
you're you're posted away fromyour spouse.
John (40:49):
Yeah. I drove She met me in Toronto where my parents live
now. So I drove from Portage toToronto. She We met there and
then we traveled down to Aruba.
Bryan (40:57):
Okay. Right on.
John (40:59):
So how did you like learning to fly helicopters?
Flying a helicopter initially isscary and challenging. The
instructors like John Groton,Jeff Barth, those guys a lot of
courage in day to day getting inthe helicopter with brand new
(41:20):
helicopter pilots. It's superunstable initially. Even just
sitting in ops watching peoplelift off for the first time for
some of their first fewhelicopter flights, it's
terrifying just to watch itbecause it seems so unstable.
Yeah. Slowly but surely, youstart to figure out how all the
controls are linked together andthe inputs you need to make to
(41:42):
maintain a stable platform. Andbefore you know it, after I
think it's ten hours orsomething, you know you're going
solo. And and that's crazy. Thefirst time you go solo, you're
almost thinking, are you are yousure?
Like, are are you sure I'm readyfor this? Just to take this
machine. But, yeah, it wasamazing. Such a good group of
people at the school. MikeBottoms and Michael Cain,
(42:06):
teaching us to fly helicoptersinitially.
It was a great experience.
Bryan (42:10):
Yeah. Those are a really great group of people that
you've mentioned. And the schoolis is really chock full of great
instructors who really careabout their students and really
want them to succeed. So it'sgood to hear that you had that
same experience.
John (42:24):
Yeah. I think that I tried to get back to my phase one
mindset a little bit on phasethree about just doing my best
and be happy with the resultsand tried to to, you know, wash
away a little bit of thatpressure and anxiety. Mhmm.
Definitely still felt it, but,just wanted to do my best and
there was such a group greatgroup of people around me, all
my course mates that that Ireally enjoyed the course.
Bryan (42:44):
Yeah. What did you find was the most challenging part of
phase three?
John (42:48):
So in phase three, I definitely experienced a lot of
test anxiety getting ready for,the selection to what airframe
we'd be flying. I put a lot ofpressure on myself for that. I
was very excited to be there andto be moving forward. Coming up
to those tests, I would really,really get quite a bit of
nerves. So that was difficult.
Bryan (43:10):
How did you overcome that?
John (43:12):
I think that just having the opportunity to be around and
study with my course mates, PatMcPherson, Michael Pearson, a
lot of really good guys, MartinDamianoff, Ian Robertson, they
were all so good to worktogether and study together and
make sure that everybody wasgonna be successful in the
course. It is competitive in away. Everybody's fighting for
(43:32):
slots on airframes, but at theend of the day, everybody still
wanted to help each other besuccessful. So having them there
and then just having a routine,trying to like kind of get into
the the routine of getting up inthe morning, getting a workout,
going to study, get my flightdone, prep for the next flight.
Yeah.
Just kind of breaking it up inthat way really helped me sort
(43:53):
of just just get into a rhythm.
Bryan (43:55):
Yeah. When you can kind of make it Groundhog Day and
every day is fairly predictableand similar and you have your
little comfort routine, like yousaid, get that workout in and do
all the things you need to do,It makes life a lot more
predictable and kind of lowstress.
John (44:09):
Yep, definitely helped for me.
Bryan (44:12):
What was the most exciting experience you had on
phase three?
John (44:16):
Well, think that everybody has an exciting experience while
they're doing their first soloson the 206. Whether or not they
mean to or not, that's anexciting time. Getting to fly
around an area north, just onthe North part of Southport in a
little two zero six. I feel likeit's the dirt bike of the sky in
a way. And it's such a simplemachine in a lot of ways
compared to some of the otherhelicopters that I've flown now.
(44:37):
But it's a real pleasure to justrip around in and you're just
kind of getting acquainted withflying a helicopter, and having
that freedom to go and, oh, Iwanna go land over there. And
you know what I mean? There's somuch freedom in a helicopter.
That that was a really awesometime. Yeah.
It sounds like a
Bryan (44:53):
lot of fun. I think I'm a multi guy, but I think
helicopters are super cool.
John (44:58):
I appreciate that.
Bryan (44:59):
They're they're way I think they're very versatile and
the flying flying is like prettyamazing, especially some of the
low level flying that they cando is pretty spectacular.
John (45:11):
Yeah. Absolutely. It's it's a cool way to see the
world.
Bryan (45:15):
What did it feel like to march up on parade and get your
wings?
John (45:18):
I graduated in early twenty twenty. Oh, no. So, yeah,
I had a really interestingexperience actually for my my
graduation from phase three ofmy wings. At that time, we were
all dispersed. So Candice wasliving in Comox.
I finished course a little bitearly. I finished in December
2019. And I asked if I couldleave for a few weeks to spend
(45:39):
some time with her before mygrad because I was done flying.
And so that got approved. Andjust after I left is when the
pandemic kind of hit the world.
Bryan (45:48):
Yeah. When they told us all to like stay in your house
basically. Yeah, exactly.Military was like It was
essentially like an order to notleave your place of residence.
John (45:57):
Exactly. So I was there in Comox at that time and they
said, hey, just stay there fornow. There was so much up in the
air. They didn't know what washappening with the whole
pandemic. Just stay where youare.
So I ended up staying there. Andthen a couple of weeks, let it
into a couple of months. And Iended up doing my grad
virtually.
Bryan (46:15):
Really?
John (46:15):
So it was kind of weird. It was unfortunate we didn't get
to have our grad dinner. Thatwas something I really wish I
had been able to take part in.And we did a virtual wing
ceremony. So that was, you know,not not the ideal ceremonious
occasion.
Bryan (46:31):
How do they do that? Like like how do you get wings?
John (46:34):
Gerald Walker was there and I remember I think I didn't
fully realize that I wasexpected to be there for the
virtual ceremony. So I kindamaybe got woken out of bed even
Bryan (46:46):
Oh, really? For my
John (46:47):
own wing ceremony. I can't remember completely. But they
kinda they they presented us ourwings. And then afterwards, a
few months later in August, Ihad my dad actually come out to
Comox. So he actually pinned mywings on me.
Oh, that's awesome. That wasYeah. That was a really cool
experience.
Bryan (47:06):
That's cool. Did he get like a picture and stuff?
John (47:08):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. The the squadron CEO
at the time, you know, broughtas many people on the ramp as
they could. And I don't thinkit's something that happens
super often because generallyeverybody gets winged in
Portage.
Yeah. So it was pretty neat tobe able to get winged in Comox
in front of the Coromaran withmy dad.
Bryan (47:21):
That's awesome. In some ways, that's kind of it's very
unique. I I won't say it's morespecial than getting a wings
grad parade because, like, as wetalked about earlier, those are
very special moments.
John (47:31):
Yeah. Exactly.
Bryan (47:32):
That's a pretty close second, if not a tie.
John (47:34):
Yeah. Definitely a silver lining to
Bryan (47:35):
it. Yeah. So as we've already mentioned, you passed
phase three and were selected tofly the CH one forty nine
Kormorant with four forty twoTransport and Rescue Squadron in
Comox BC. I think we've kind ofknow this, but was that what you
wanted?
John (47:48):
Yeah. Absolutely. From the time I found out that I was
gonna be flying helicopters, itwas my sole goal to try and get
to Comox and fly the Cormorant.
Bryan (47:55):
Yeah. So you got the location, you got the aircraft.
John (47:58):
I would have been happy, you know, anywhere flying the
Cormorant especially. Yeah. Butto get into Comox, flying the
Cormorant,
Bryan (48:05):
like was That really the grand slam.
John (48:07):
Dream come true. I had to pinch myself a few times.
Bryan (48:10):
What did you learn during your time as a student on phase
three that influenced how youconduct yourself as a star pilot
later in life?
John (48:17):
I really, really, really took away the value of, the
camaraderie and being close knitwith the other guys that are
around you. Even at times whenyou feel competitive with each
other, helping each other,working together. And and on
phase three in the helicoptersis the first time we're really
exposed to crew, like a crewconcept in the cockpit. And so
(48:39):
taking that to heart andembodying that style of flying
in it with a crewed environmentdefinitely was huge for working
at four forty two in the sireenvironment. So just being a
team player always and I thinkmy communication skills,
probably have to ask my wife,but I think that they probably
improved vastly being in thecockpit with somebody else and
(49:01):
explaining that to them what I'mdoing.
Bryan (49:03):
Yeah. During my time with four forty two, I could really
clearly see how much teamworkwas valued there and, it's great
that that's something youcarried forward from your time
at phase three.
John (49:14):
Yeah. Yeah. It's one of my favorite parts of working in the
siren environment at four fourtwo and I'm sure it'll be like
that at four thirteen as well.Yep. Is just how tight knit
everybody is in that squadronand and amongst the the crews
when we're out operating, youknow, we all work together to
achieve the mission.
It's definitely a teamenvironment and every person on
the team is a key player.
Bryan (49:32):
Yeah. For sure. So we're going to close with some advice.
What advice would you give to
John (49:36):
a student just starting out their flight training today?
Flight training can be extremelystressful and can go by before
you know it. So I woulddefinitely advise everybody
involved in pilot training totake a moment. Try to do it at
least once a flight if you can,but just take a deep breath and
look out and see where you are.It's an amazing thing to be able
to fly, to be up in the cloudsand, seeing the sights that we
(50:00):
get to see.
So just really try and and putthat back in perspective once in
a while and take a moment toyourself if you can.
Bryan (50:06):
Awesome. Okay, John. That is going to wrap up part one of
our chat for today. Thanks somuch for sharing your memories
of early flight training in theRCAF, and I'm really looking
forward to hearing your SARstories when we return for part
two. So thanks again for beinghere.
John (50:20):
Thanks so much for having me. Excited for it.
Bryan (50:23):
Okay. That wraps up part one of our chat with John. Tune
in next week as we dive into hisoperational time on the CH one
forty nine Cormorant, includingsome very challenging missions
he took part in and the road tobecoming an aircraft commander.
Do you have any questions orcomments about anything you've
heard in this show? Would you orsomeone you know make a great
guest, or do you have a greatidea for a show?
You can reach out to us at thepilotprojectpodcast@Gmail.com or
(50:47):
on all social media at at podpilot project. And be sure to
check out that social media forlots of great videos of our RCAF
and mission aviation aircraft.As always, we'd like to thank
you for tuning in and ask foryour help with the big three.
That's like and follow us onsocial media, share with your
friends, and follow and rate usfive stars wherever you get your
podcasts. That's all for now.
(51:08):
Thanks for listening. Keep theblue sign up. See you. Engineer,
shut down all four. Shuttingdown all four engines.
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Bryan (00:30):
Fuel and ignition switches. On. RPM switches. Set.
PD switches.
Normal. Doors and hatches.Closed. Lie down. Strobe lights.
On. Research check-in fleet withyour left. Alright. We're ready
(00:59):
for departure here at the pilotproject podcast, the best source
for stories and advice from RCAFand mission aviation pilots
brought to you by Sky'sMagazine. I'm your host, Brian
Morrison, and with me here todaystopping in while they drive
across Canada for a posting iscaptain John Livingston.
John is a SAR pilot on theCormorant, previously a four
four two transport and rescuesquadron in Comox BC, and now
(01:20):
heading to four thirteenTransport and Rescue Squadron in
Greenwood, Nova Scotia. John,welcome to my home. Welcome to
the show, and thank you so muchfor taking the time to stop by
today for a chat.
John (01:30):
Thanks so much for having me, Brian. Really excited to be
here.
Bryan (01:33):
So today, we will be talking about John's time flying
in the RCAF and particularlyabout his time flying Tsar on
the Kormorant. But before wejump into any of that, let's go
through John's bio. Captain JohnLivingston was born in Comox BC
while his father was posted tofour zero seven squadron flying
the Aurora. His father, havingserved twenty two years in the
military flying multipleairframes and then continuing
(01:54):
his piloting career incommercial and corporate
aviation, inspired John to lookto the skies. After completing
high school in Southern Ontario,he considered applying to the
military to be a pilot butdecided to pursue a degree at
UPEI initially.
While at UPEI in 2013, Johnapplied and was accepted into
the regular officer trainingplan at RMC to be a pilot. After
(02:15):
completing a degree inmechanical engineering and
playing varsity hockey, pilottraining began. Between phases
of flight training, John woulddo his OJT and Comox at four
four two squadron. Followingphase two in Moose Jaw, John was
married to his wife, Candice,and selected for phase three
rotary. A week after thewedding, John was back in the
cockpit flying the Bell two zerosix and four twelve helicopters
(02:35):
and becoming a winged RCAFpilot.
He was then posted back to fourfour two squadron to fly the CH
one forty nine cormorant. Priorto starting the Cormorant
operational training unit, Johnhad his first child, a daughter,
in 2020, then the OTU in July2021, and operational flying
began in November. Life wasbusy, but life was good. Flying
(02:55):
on the West Coast Of Canada isan adventure every day.
Operational taskings of rescuemissions were slow to come
initially, but then would seemmore frequent and would come in
bunches.
John's second child was born inJuly 2022, following which John
continued to build experience inmaritime extractions as he
prepared for his aircraftcommander or AC upgrade. John
upgraded to AC in the 2023 andled his first operational SAR
(03:18):
mission in January 2024.Highlights of his career since
have included being the deputyair operations officer for the
Comox Air Show in 2024, beingthe CH one forty nine demo pilot
at the Abbotsford Air Show in2024, taking part in SAR X two
thousand twenty four, as well asnumerous rescues. During the
last four years, John has beeninvolved in 83 rescue missions
(03:39):
throughout BC. He has recentlybeen posted at Greenwood where
he will continue to fly theCormorant at four thirteen
squadron.
So let's talk about your earlydays. This is a question we
always like to ask, and webriefly passed over this in your
bio. But where did aviationstart for you?
John (03:54):
The seed for aviation was really planted for me, for my
father. He was a pilot in themilitary for twenty two years,
and he definitely got meinterested in aviation. Also,
got to think of my grandfather,who was a pilot during the World
War II time frame. So both ofthose were Both of those people
were large inspirations for meand definitely got me always
(04:15):
looking to the skies.
Bryan (04:16):
Yeah. Were you in cadets or anything like that?
John (04:19):
No. I really didn't have much flying experience. Tons of
Flight Simulator X time and somevideo games. But, I think I did
maybe two or three hours of,like, one seventy two flying,
Cessna one seventy two flyingbefore joining the military.
Otherwise, fresh.
Bryan (04:35):
Really? It's always interesting to talk to somebody
who had, like, zero experiencebecause at its core, that's what
our flight training system isdesigned to serve as somebody
with no experience off thestreet. So it's cool to see the
system works.
John (04:49):
Yeah, absolutely. When my dad had joined, I think it was
slightly less demand for pilotsat that time, and they were
looking for people that hadquite a bit of flying experience
in order to get in. So he was alittle skeptical at first with
my application that I wouldactually be accepted, but
otherwise, he's been completelysupportive.
Bryan (05:06):
That's awesome. So inspired by your father, you
wanted to pursue a career inaviation and perhaps in the CAF.
Why did you initially pursue acareer at UPEI instead of
joining the military?
John (05:16):
Before deciding to go down the the military avenue, my life
was really dedicated to hockeyat the time. I was playing a lot
of hockey in Southern Ontario,but I I had a girlfriend in
Prince Edward Island, and Iwanted to be closer to her. I
decided to start my studies atUPEI while still playing junior
hockey on the East Coast. Butduring that year and just kind
(05:37):
of seeing where things wereleading, I decided I really
wanted to focus more on mycareer and the part of my life
after hockey. And at that time,I made the decision in
consultation with Candace thatthat I would apply to
Bryan (05:51):
the military and pursue that. Okay. So the girlfriend in
UPEI is now your wife?
John (05:56):
That's right. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's
awesome.
Bryan (05:59):
And so basically, you saw like, okay, I'm not gonna make
it to the NHL, so like I need tofocus on what's next kind of
thing?
John (06:08):
Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't say that I ever really
completely let go of the dream,but I saw that it was definitely
time to start planning for for arealistic future
Bryan (06:16):
Yeah.
John (06:16):
Pursuing education and something that I was really
interested in doing, whichaviation was definitely that.
Bryan (06:22):
So what prompted you to apply for ROTP at RMC?
John (06:26):
So when I initially started talking to the
recruiting center, I was moreinterested in trying to attend a
CVU just for the the pace andhow much time I would have to
dedicate RMC to the wholemilitary education aspect all
rolled up in one in in Kingston.But after talking to the
recruiters at the recruitingcenter and because I wanted to
(06:47):
pursue a degree in mechanicalengineering, they felt that my
application would be morecompetitive if I had indicated
RMC is somewhere that I'd beinterested in attending. Okay.
And I just decided that I wouldwant to go with the most
competitive application I could.And so I would consider going to
RMC and then that's what I wasaccepted for and I was happy to
accept that.
Bryan (07:06):
So like did they get you pumped to go there kind of thing
or
John (07:10):
I wouldn't kind say they oversold it in any way.
Basically they just alluded thatbecause the degree was offered
at RMC that my application wouldbe more competitive if I had
also be interested in attending.
Bryan (07:24):
And you just wanted the best chance possible basically.
John (07:26):
Yeah, essentially. I didn't feel like my education
grades were extraordinary or ormy application for any other
reason was specifically robust.So I just wanted to give myself
every chance.
Bryan (07:36):
Okay. Right on. So let's talk a little about your time at
RMC. You attended Royal MilitaryCollege or RMC under the ROTP
program. What studies did youdecide to pursue and why?
John (07:46):
So like I said, I decided to just go with mechanical
engineering. I've always been aguy interested in taking things
apart and putting them backtogether again and and more of a
numbers guy. So I definitelythought if I was gonna get a
university degree, had a waybetter chance actually pursuing
mechanical engineering orsomething in that domain rather
than an arts degree or somethinglike that.
Bryan (08:06):
Yeah. Did you find that that degree paid off? Like, do
you find that any skills oranything like that kind of still
ended up being useful throughyour career?
John (08:16):
Yeah, absolutely. Being a helicopter pilot, we're we're
working very closely with, youknow, a very complex mechanical
system. So having thatbackground knowledge about the
theories, the fundamentals ofhow different mechanisms are
operating helps me understandthem in my day to day work.
Bryan (08:33):
Okay. Right on. So as always, RMC is a pretty
polarizing subject. How did youfind your time there?
John (08:41):
You know, I think that it definitely can be polarizing for
people and some people don'thave a great experience there.
I'm fortunate that I think I didhave a really, really good
experience. I took advantage ofsome of the opportunities that
RMC has to offer. So I I playeda varsity sport, which is huge,
and tried to get out there andparticipate in some of the
(09:03):
opportunities that RMC has tooffer. I saw some of the cadets
at the college participatingmuch less.
And I think that going down thatroad, it's much more of a
struggle. Yeah. You know, it'sobviously a new adventure for
people going to university,period. Yeah. And then adding in
the whole military component ofit.
If you don't have good outlets,good friend group, and doing
(09:26):
other things that you'regenuinely interested in, I think
it can be a very challengingplace.
Bryan (09:30):
Yeah. I believe that. I went to CVU
John (09:33):
Okay.
Bryan (09:33):
And I was definitely like, nope. I I don't need to
add the stress of the militaryto my time in university.
John (09:41):
Yeah.
Bryan (09:42):
There are definitely times where I thought it would
have been pretty cool to gothere. Like, I think the sense
of camaraderie and the kind oflike what's the word? I don't
know. You're part of a you'repart of a bigger group of
people, right, who've graduatedfrom somewhere special and I
think that that's really cool.How did you find FIOP or first
year orientation period?
John (10:00):
Well, with all the athletics, I was reasonably fit
going into it. So I think thathelps. I think, you know, the
better shape you are in gettingthere, obviously, it's very
physical for that that firstyear orientation period. Every
morning you're getting up quiteearly to do PT, physical
training outside, working onobstacle courses, teamwork. So
(10:21):
having spent so much time in ateam environment, it was pretty
natural for me.
It was definitely an adjustment,the early mornings, late nights,
and the whole military mindset.But overall, I don't think it
was too bad. What do you
Bryan (10:33):
think was the hardest part of those days?
John (10:36):
RMC in general or first year orientation?
Bryan (10:38):
Let's say RMC in general.
John (10:40):
At times, balancing hockey and my studies and everything
else going on was challenging.
Bryan (10:48):
Yeah. So like time management?
John (10:49):
Yeah. Time management and also having the opportunity to,
you know, go out and blow offsome steam with my friends.
Yeah. Managing all of that wasdefinitely challenging at times.
Bryan (10:58):
Yeah. For sure. What did you take from your time at RMC
that helped you later in thecockpit?
John (11:04):
Something that I took away, and I think that it does
apply in the cockpit, but justgenerally also in life, is that
you really get out of thingswhat you put into them. And at
RMC, I saw, you know, for thegraduation parades and and some
of the more significant momentsat the school, that took a lot
of effort from everybody to makethose ceremonies feel special.
(11:24):
Yeah. And so I tried to rememberthat throughout that if you
really want something to feelspecial for somebody or you want
something to be significant,then you have to put that effort
in.
Bryan (11:34):
Yeah, for sure. And I mean, if you think about
graduation parades, wingsparades, mess dinners, all those
things, like, I think whenyou're a student and you go
through them, you're like, it isa special thing, right? And
you're like, wowed. But you'reright, like taking time to
appreciate what people are doingfor you because those
instructors go to a mess dinnerlike every couple weeks, right?
(11:57):
And there's a grad every couplemonths.
And the RMC instructors, like,they they go to grads every
year, but they try to make yoursspecial. Right? Like
John (12:07):
Yeah. Absolutely. So the specific occasion I'm thinking
of is the graduation parade atthe Royal Military College.
Every year, once classes andexams are all finished,
everybody at the school spendsweeks prepping for the
graduation ceremony and thegraduation parade. And when
you're a student, you're not theone graduating, it feels like it
sucks.
(12:27):
You're on the parade square allsummer and it's super hot and
you don't want to be there. Butthen when you're on the other
end of it and you're thegraduate everyone's there lined
up for you that you've beengoing to school with for the
last four years, it's a supersignificant milestone to mark
Yeah. That feels super special.So it's it really sort of shows
what I said about gettinggetting out of what you put into
(12:48):
something. Yeah.
Bryan (12:51):
So let's move on to talking about some of your
flight training, specificallyphase one. How did you feel as
you arrived for phase one flighttraining, especially as somebody
with no experience?
John (13:01):
Yeah. I felt I definitely felt some anxiety, little bit
nervous, super excited. Thepeople and this is a theme
throughout my pilot training andmy whole military career. The
people around me were alwaysfantastic. So having such a good
group of people there reallyhelped to to quell that anxiety.
We had a lot of fun together andyou you spend the first few
(13:22):
weeks, you know, in groundschool learning how am I gonna
do You know, you're almostalready comparing yourself
against these people, but thenalso making friendships. And so
seeing that I was able to besuccessful in the exams for the
ground school portion, thingswere going okay, it gave me hope
that I was gonna be able to dothis once we actually got in the
cockpit. And and then started toto ease a little bit. And then I
(13:44):
I just did my best to kind ofenjoy it and and do my best. And
I felt like if I did my best,whatever outcome, you know, was
was the outcome at the end, Iwould be okay with.
Bryan (13:54):
So it's funny you say that because I was, like, super
stressed during phase two. I Iskipped phase one Okay. Because
I had a commercial multi IFRfrom school. Nice. So I went and
went into phase two withoutcertain amounts of experience.
Like, I had no idea aboutanything to do with military
flying, never done aerobatics,like a lot of that kind of
stuff. But the biggest thingthat was like a watershed moment
(14:18):
for me was when I realized thatall I can do is my best. And if
I can walk away, even if itdoesn't work, if you can walk
away with your head held highand say, I did my absolute best,
like I didn't leave anythingbehind. There's no like the last
thing you want is like for itnot to work out and you're like,
man, I really could have workedharder.
John (14:38):
Yeah. So, on phase one, I was so ignorant in a way that I
was just doing my best and happyto be there. Yeah. Whereas once
I had sort of proved myself forphase two, I think that that
made me even more anxious onphase Yeah. Two a little
Bryan (14:49):
Okay. I got a question about that in a bit and I'm
interested to hear more aboutthat. Do you remember what your
first impressions were of RCAFflight training?
John (14:58):
I remember my first my my primary instructor first flights
with Liam Marcoux on the Globehaving just a great time, such a
fantastic instructor. Just lovedloved being airborne. At times,
it was almost difficult to focuson what the lesson was because I
was just having so much funbeing up in the air. Yeah. But
but yeah, was a greatopportunity.
(15:19):
I had a lot of fun and justwanted to keep keep flying. Just
wanted to be up in the sky asmuch as possible.
Bryan (15:25):
Yeah. And it's so great to hear, you know, it's really
easy not to have fun as crazy asthat sounds when you have flight
training, especially in the airforce when the pressure's on.
Like a lot of people, you you'veprobably seen those students,
right? Like they're super superstressed out. They're walking
around with their shouldersslumped.
Yeah. Like they're reallyworried about failing out or
(15:48):
their next flight or their nexttest or whatever it is. It's so
easy to forget to have fun. Andmeanwhile, you're flying these
airplanes that like I guaranteethat 90% of our listeners would
kill just to go for a ride in.
John (16:00):
A 100%. Yeah. I felt so lucky, so fortunate to be there
the whole time. And and I'lltalk about it more when we get
to some of the later phases.There were times where I
definitely felt stressed out.
Yeah. But fortunately, on onphase one, I think a large part
of that comes from the tone myinstructors said in the cockpit.
It was an awesome learningenvironment. I really enjoyed
it.
Bryan (16:17):
What do you think was like your biggest challenge on
phase one?
John (16:20):
On phase one, I think I wanted to be, you know, like a
high performance pilotimmediately and just kind of,
you know, taking it easy,walking, crawling, walking
before I ran was important. Notthat I was ready to run right
out of the bats, but I think Iwanted to anyways.
Bryan (16:35):
For sure.
John (16:36):
So just slowing things down and really focusing on the
fundamentals and and kind oflike taking the time to to
become a competent pilot beforetrying to get into more advanced
stuff.
Bryan (16:46):
Yeah, that makes sense. It is it is tough, like if
you're a high achiever overperformer, like most pilots tend
to be, especially in themilitary. It is tough to
realize, like, gotta be humbleand start with the basics and
like, I remember gettingfrustrated one time when a sim
instructor in Moose Jaw waslike, I was flying an ILS and I
(17:09):
was having a little bit oftrouble with the vertical
guidance. And ILS for thelisteners is instrument landing
system. It's just a thing thatguides you to the runway in bad
weather.
And he he was like pausing thesim and like, okay, you need to
we need to nail this down. Andlike, I remember at first
feeling really frustrated, like,but I have I had a like, not to
sound cocky. I probably was alittle cocky at the time. But I
(17:30):
was thinking to myself, like, Ihave a civilian instrument
ticket. I know how to fly anILS.
But he did make me way better atflying the ILS, and I should
have been probably more humbleat that moment and accepted
like, hey, the basic buildingblocks are what you work on
first and like you can worryabout your advanced stuff when
you get to it. But during the Iduring like the instrument
(17:51):
flight phase, you need to befocusing on instrument flight
and perfecting that phase you'reon.
John (17:55):
For sure. I've always been really appreciative of those
instructors that are like veryparticular and force you to be a
better pilot
Bryan (18:01):
For sure.
John (18:01):
And really be detail oriented. That's something that
I've always tried to take away.
Bryan (18:04):
Yeah. Yeah. How did phase one go for you overall? I don't
remember in fact where
John (18:11):
I kind of ended up in the rankings of the course or
anything like that. I rememberdoing well. I don't think I was
the top of the course oranything like that. I just
remember being happy, yeah, thatI got through it Yeah. And that
I was successful and that I wasmoving on to phase two.
Bryan (18:27):
Yeah. And realistically, phase one, all that matters is
if you pass. Like Yeah. Toppingyour course is nice, but it
doesn't get you any Mhmm.Anything like bonus points or
John (18:36):
Absolutely.
Bryan (18:36):
It doesn't help you get selected on a certain aircraft
or any of that. That all comeslater.
John (18:40):
So Yep.
Bryan (18:41):
So in between flight training courses, you did your
OJT in Comox, BC at four fourtwo Transport and Rescue
Squadron. Can you tell us aboutyour OJT experience there?
John (18:50):
Yeah. I was lucky while being unlucky. So at the Royal
Military College, often betweenthird and fourth year, you'll
get to do your phase one, yourprimary flight training. There
were so many pilots in my year,there weren't enough slots for
everybody to actually dotraining. And they said, hey,
John, unfortunately, we don'thave a spot for you this summer
to do phase one training.
(19:10):
So we're gonna send you on onthe job training. You can pick
whichever base you wanna go to.I was born in Comox, but I
hadn't been back since thenineties. I've always heard it's
a beautiful place, superinterested. I said, I want to go
to four forty two Squadron.
Bryan (19:24):
So is this before phase one?
John (19:26):
Yeah. I actually spent a summer there before phase one
Bryan (19:28):
initially.
John (19:29):
And then I went back after phase one between phase one and
phase two, and kept going back.
Bryan (19:33):
Both times at 04:42?
John (19:35):
That's right. Yeah. The four forty two is actually the
only squadron I've ever been to.That's crazy. That's so far.
Soon to make four thirteen inthe second. But it was it was an
awesome opportunity. Definitelygot me interested in the star
mentality, seeing howoperational the squadron was,
but then also, you know, putsuch a premium on the training,
(19:56):
making sure everybody wasoperating at the highest
performance they could. And justthe camaraderie and the pride at
that squadron definitely gothooked. Yeah.
What was your job there? Sogenerally F-four 42 OJTs come in
and they'll work at the opsdesk. So that's kind of the hub
of the squadron. You really getyour finger on the pulse of
(20:16):
everything that's going on. Alot of communications that come
into the squadron, whether it'sjust people calling into the
squadron, know, you're directingthe call or you're you're
forwarding emails.
But in that, you kind of youknow, you get little pieces of
information about what's goingon all over the place. So it
really gives you a good sense ofhow the squadron runs Mhmm. And
really gets you introduced to tokey people around the squadron.
(20:38):
It's a it's an awesomeopportunity for somebody that's
just getting into the militaryto really kind of see how the
whole organization runs.
Bryan (20:44):
For sure. Did you get a chance to do much flying there?
Like, did they take you up much?
John (20:48):
They were awesome to offer. Whenever there was, you
know, an extra person or two atthe desk, they would be more
than happy to say, hey, when doyou guys want to come flying
today?
Bryan (20:55):
It was still the buff. Right?
John (20:56):
Yeah. Got to take a couple of flights on the buff, which is
amazing seeing that that oldbeautiful aircraft. Did it get
you
Bryan (21:01):
in the seat?
John (21:02):
I remember flying briefly one time while we were on an IFR
clearance. So I didn't reallyget to turn or do anything.
Still you flew But I was upthere.
Bryan (21:11):
That's pretty cool.
John (21:11):
Touch the controls. Yeah, it was an incredible machine.
Super cool. I'm super happy tohave been able to do that. And
then also I got to fly in theKorm a bunch.
I can't remember getting hoistedvery much as an OJT, but I do
remember often being a casualty,simulated casualty for the
search and rescue technicians
Bryan (21:28):
Oh, yeah?
John (21:29):
To come and they were poking me with IVs. Like for
real? Oh, yeah. They would givegive you your like Saline or
whatever. Yeah, exactly.
Just some saline. They reallyappreciated being able to
actually practice that for real.And then simulated broken limbs
or whatever, chest pain, stufflike that. So yeah, that was
really fun.
Bryan (21:46):
Man, that sounds like a lot of fun.
John (21:48):
I think my first day there at the squadron, I had an IV
going in each arm. Two Sartecswanted to race. We could get one
get one started faster.
Bryan (21:56):
That's hilarious. Did working at four forty two
inspire you to fly SAR aircraft?
John (22:01):
Definitely. Being there, seeing how the people operated,
seeing how the level ofcommitment, how operationally
minded everybody was, gave me aton of interest in being at a
place like that. I definitelywanted to be somewhere where
there was such team cohesion,where everybody was pursuing the
(22:23):
same objectives. I wasdefinitely very interested in
coming back to four four two.
Bryan (22:27):
Yeah. And as you know, I just spent the last week in
Comox with four four two,spending a couple days with four
four two squadron. And I got alittle taste of that, and I have
to say, like, probably the SARworld doesn't need any help
recruiting, but my gosh, like,if if I could go back, I would
want to be part of SAR. In fact,that was gonna be my next
(22:48):
posting
John (22:49):
Oh, yeah.
Bryan (22:49):
In Trenton. But I I think the SAAR world is amazing.
Everyone I met was so positive,so mission focused, so
motivated. Like, it was justreally, really impressive. Like,
I haven't seen such a bunch ofhardworking yet very happy
people in a squadron maybe ever.
John (23:10):
Yeah. Everybody definitely wants to be there and is very
driven and happy to be there. Soit's a really enjoyable place to
work.
Bryan (23:15):
Yeah. And it and it helps that you're in Comox, has which
got to be one of the mostbeautiful places I've ever been.
John (23:19):
It doesn't hurt. One of the biggest challenges is always
picking which hobby you want todo that day. Yeah.
Bryan (23:26):
What's a key lesson about SARA that you learned at four
forty two Squadron that youstill use to this day?
John (23:32):
I think I might use this as like a bit of a public
service announcement, becausesomething that I've really taken
away from SAR flying is is howmuch preparation can be
important when you are doingadventurous activities in the
wild kind of a way in remoteareas. Just leaving somebody
with a plan of what you're gonnabe doing, where you are, taking
(23:55):
some extra seconds to have agood plan and then a plan if
things don't go to plan. Havemaybe a personal locator beacon
or like a Garmin inReach. Peopleknow where you're gonna be and
have check-in times. Things likethat can really really make a
big difference if things don'tgo as planned.
And with that also, somethingthat's really become obvious to
(24:18):
me is searching for people inwater is super challenging. I
did the sailing course alsowhile I was in Comox. And this
is something that Every time Iwas going on the water, I would
think about. And I would try tomake sure I would dress in
bright colors and then likeflotation, having my PFD close
by was always important to me oror wearing it while sailing
because searching for somebodyin the water that is difficult
(24:42):
to find because their clothingis not brightly colored or they
don't have a life jacket. It itliterally makes the difference
between life and death.
Yeah. So I I would highlyrecommend to to make those
considerations before whateveryou're doing. Go out there and
have fun, but but have a goodplan.
Bryan (24:57):
Yeah. Having practiced a little bit of searching, on the
Aurora, totally agree. Like weused to every now and then drop
a sonoboy down and then at thetop of a sonoboy is like a
triangular float
John (25:10):
Okay.
Bryan (25:10):
Bright orange at at the surface. And I think they call
it a witch's hat. And we wouldsometimes use that to simulate a
person. And even though it was abright orange thing in the in
the water, it's very hard tofind. Like, the aircraft is
moving.
The ocean is vast. Mhmm.Something that is pretty big in
(25:31):
real life from even a 100 feetlooks pretty small in the water.
So I totally agree with that.
John (25:39):
Yeah. Yeah. It can it can be super challenging and more
than anything in that situation,we just want to find what we're
looking for. Yeah. So
Bryan (25:45):
And usually And that's in like, you know, that was not
even in crazy conditions. Right?Like, once the sea state comes
up, it's crazy.
John (25:54):
Yeah. If if the weather turns or if the water is moving
at all, it makes it a completelydifferent game. Yeah. Way more
challenging, absolutely.
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Bryan (26:32):
So let's, jump back into talking about your flight
training. We'll talk about phasetwo. So now that you've gone
through phase one, you need tomake it through phase two flight
training. You're one step closerto achieving those dreams. So
did you find that having afather who was an air force
pilot added pressure?
John (26:48):
Honestly, I didn't really find any extra pressure because
of that. I think all of thepressure that I that I did feel
throughout the course was selfimposed for the most part. My,
my dad was very supportivealways and always happy and
wanted to chat about what I wasup to and hear about my flights
and get the debrief. So that wassuper fun. And he would give me
his little tidbits of knowledgeinstruction that I would maybe
(27:11):
or maybe not listen to.
But that was super fun and Inever really Can't really say
that I ever felt extra pressurebecause of it.
Bryan (27:17):
Yeah. That's good because I had peers who's like Like I
had a good friend of mine comesto mind, I won't name him, but
and he did succeed in the end.But he wanted to be a fighter
pilot so bad and his dad hadbeen a fighter pilot and you
would see him get towards tests,like very nervous. And he was a
great pilot, But he just gotsuper like, I I swear I can
(27:40):
remember him looking like paleand like shaken basically.
John (27:44):
Mhmm.
Bryan (27:45):
And it I don't know how he got over it because he did
become a fighter pilot andAwesome. And did quite well. But
I've seen that that when youhave like heritage in the
military, I've seen that addpressure to people before.
John (27:59):
Yeah. Understandably. I feel fortunate that I didn't put
that pressure on myself. Not tosay that I Like I said, I did
have a lot of pressure anddefinitely had lots of test
anxiety. Yeah.
But I I just didn't perceive itcoming from there.
Bryan (28:12):
Do you want to talk about that now? Like, how was that for
you? You said you had a lot ofself induced pressure.
John (28:17):
Yeah. I wanted to do well. I definitely had test anxiety
throughout my pilot training.But on phase two, I really
enjoyed the idea of formationflying and I really wanted to be
a really good formation pilot.So I put a lot of pressure on
myself for that phase of it.
It's also the last phasecompleted. So it was at the end,
(28:41):
you know what I mean? It was thelast hurdle to get past and I
wanted to do well with it. Sowith that, I think I really
loaded up the pressure onmyself. And for formation
flying, I'm sure anybody that'sdone it will know that it's
something you need to be reallysmooth for and you wanna be
smooth on the controls.
And I was punchy on thethrottle.
Bryan (29:01):
So
John (29:02):
it made it challenging, I was able to hang in there. But
it's something I wish I couldhave done more of actually. It's
super fast on phase two. I thinkyou do six hours, something
Bryan (29:11):
Something like like that, six or seven or something.
John (29:13):
Type formation flying. And I would have loved to have an
opportunity to do ten, fifteenhours of it. Yeah. Because it
was something that I was onlybeginning to feel comfortable
with, if I can say that at theend.
Bryan (29:23):
Yeah. I agree. I would have loved to do more too. I
think that was maybe Like, lowlevel nav was really cool. Yeah.
Absolutely. Formation flying isjust like such a unique thing,
like, flying that close to anaircraft, the precision that it
takes and the Yeah. The skill.And like like you said, you have
to be really smooth. It's fun.
(29:43):
And it's like a it's like awhole different skill from all
the rest of flying. Like Yeah.Absolutely. And it's something
that you really have to work onto get decent at. And like you
only kind of start to be decent.
Like like they don't even takeyou into any of the advanced
maneuvers. Right? Like 60 degreeturn, I think is the most you do
on that.
John (30:01):
Yeah. Very basic. Just just maneuvering around, just
just holding, maintainingformation basically and some
rejoins, very simple rejoins.But but just the basics.
Bryan (30:09):
Yeah. It was cool. How did you find flying the Harvard
two overall?
John (30:14):
I love that machine. I remember the first time taking
off, climbing away from MooseJaw. I said, I think the
instructor probably even heardit. I was like, I need to get
one of these. That machine'samazing and it's so cool to have
the opportunity to fly anaircraft with World War II war
fighter performance, tandemseating, bubble cockpits, super
(30:34):
high performance.
It was a blast to fly. Really,really enjoyed it. I remember
initially, because of the torquefrom the prop getting back from
those like one point zero onehour flights, one and a half
hour flights and feelingexhausted
Bryan (30:47):
Yeah.
John (30:47):
Took its toll. But you get used to it after a while and,
yeah, it was an amazingexperience.
Bryan (30:52):
Yeah. Lot of people get very fatigued or airsick Yeah.
At Harvard. I totally agree withyou. I've said it many times.
The Harvard is like as close asyou can get to flying a World
War two fighter on a modern airaircraft, I think. And it's just
awesome.
John (31:07):
So much fun.
Bryan (31:08):
It's a great plane.
John (31:08):
Just think about where you want to go and it'll go there.
Yeah.
Bryan (31:11):
Yeah. Other than that self induced pressure, did you
have any particular challengeson phase two?
John (31:18):
I think that, the pace of the course itself, I We would
Coming on the end of it, doubleturn, so two different sorties
in a single day. Often it wouldbe one The first sortie would be
an IFR trip, and then the secondwould be a low level nav. And so
finding the time to prep for thenav route and make sure that I
can deliver an appropriatebriefing for that was
(31:40):
challenging balancing the paceof the course coming on the end
of it. And then also thepressures that I mentioned, I
definitely would get quite a bitof anxiety coming up to test. At
this point, you're thinkingabout your selection, what
airframe you might be flyingafterwards.
So definitely started to putsome pressure on myself with all
of that. And then like I said,the formation flying coming on
(32:00):
the end. I would have liked tohave had more time and and, you
know, been a bit more proficientwith it.
Bryan (32:05):
Yeah. Yeah. It's a tough course and that that pace of the
course, like you said, is can bevery challenging, especially if
you're doing like, you're doingdecent, they'll really push you.
And I mean, even if it's even ifbasically as long as you're
passing, like they might bedouble turning you because like
there's a there's a schedule tobe maintained and you need to
graduate on x day and Yeah. Youknow, it's pretty amazing how
(32:27):
they manage to, across theschools, keep very tightly to
those graduation dates.
John (32:35):
Yeah. Absolutely. And there's a few bit more than a
100 students that graduatethrough Moose Jaw annually.
Exactly. So they get them getall those students through
there.
And I don't wanna say you'rejust a number because there are
those personal interactions, butit's a bit bigger of a machine
than the phase one training, Iwould Yeah.
Bryan (32:56):
For sure. What is the biggest lesson you learned from
phase two that continues toinfluence you as a pilot today?
John (33:02):
Something that I really took away from phase two was
prepping for things, taking theappropriate amount of time to be
prepped for check rides or justday to day flying and putting in
that sort of effort. And oneother thing that I really,
thought about a lot was the factthat there were certain
instructors day to day becauseon phase two you fly with a
(33:22):
number of different instructorpilots. And one day you'd fly
with a pilot and you'd feel likea rock star, one of the best
pilots, the best flying you'vedone. And then the next day you
have a different pilot and forwhatever reason, you know the
vibes in the cockpit aren't thesame and it stresses you out and
you feel like you can't performeven close to that the pilot you
were yesterday. And that's sortof something I've taken away and
(33:44):
thought about, especially as I'mmoving into instructing pilots
on the corner now.
But being a pilot that promotesthe other pilot being the best
they can be. What kind ofattitude can I have to make sure
the guy sitting beside me isflying at his best?
Bryan (33:59):
That's a really interesting concept. I haven't I
don't think I've encountered toomany people like a lot I've
encountered lots of amazingpeople doing this show who, you
know, obviously want to helpeveryone around them be the
best, but I think that'sinteresting to like very
consciously in that while you'reflying, just kind of say like,
how can I best enable thisperson to be the best pilot they
(34:21):
can be? That's awesome.
John (34:22):
Yeah. It's definitely Like like I said, it's something I
really took away. It wouldalmost frustrate me that there
was people I like them. I gotalong well with them. They're
awesome instructors.
I I don't know if it was apressure I put on myself, but
but definitely there were peoplethat I felt I performed better
with and I try to take away, youknow, what enabled that.
Bryan (34:38):
Yeah. For sure. It's pretty common, like, some people
get nervous with certaininstructors. Some instructors
have a reputation as being toughor
John (34:46):
Absolutely.
Bryan (34:46):
You know, people will say like, oh, what is that
instructor? Like, what what aretheir gotchas? Like, what are
they gonna try to get you on andstuff? I know for me on phase
two, I just tried to pretendthat every instructor was the
same and just really tried totake that out of the equation
for like mental performance forme. And I think I was able to do
that pretty well, but it's noteasy.
Especially if you know you'reflying with someone who like,
(35:08):
you know, failed someoneyesterday or something like
that.
John (35:10):
Yeah. Absolutely. People will start to get those
notorious reputations Yeah. Evenif they're not always deserved.
Bryan (35:15):
Yeah. For sure. When you finished your course, you were
selected to fly helicopters. Wasthat what you wanted?
John (35:22):
You know, it I was very uncertain at that time about
what direction to go in.Helicopters wasn't my first
choice for selection after phasetwo. And I was very lured by the
high performance flying and, youknow, potentially flying jets
one day. Kind of a flip side tothat story would be that I I
(35:45):
really did wanna fly the Qormranand fly helicopters, but there's
so few people selected to flythe Qormran annually that I felt
like it was a bit of a roll ofthe dice. So it I felt like
maybe flying the Harvard againand pursuing potentially, you
know, fast jet stream would be agood fit.
And if it didn't work out, I Iwas actually interested in
(36:08):
potentially being sort of apipeline instructor as well.
That Okay. Wasn't something thatI was overly, dissuaded from
doing. So that kind of directedmy selection. But, when I was
selected helicopters, I wassuper excited about that.
Bryan (36:22):
Yeah. It's tough. I had a guy on my course, a really good
friend of mine who I stillremember we were sitting at the
Humpty's in Moose Jaw. Iremember the day he decided that
he was gonna go. He was like,the only helicopter I want is
cormorants.
And I But I'm But I know there'sonly like one slot for them, but
I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna gofor it. And he did get
cormorants.
John (36:42):
Yeah. In hindsight, that's the direction I would definitely
push people to take. Yeah. Ithink just always pursue what
interests you the most.
Bryan (36:50):
Yeah. Don't You don't have to go the safe route.
John (36:52):
Yeah. I I mean, I did feel like maybe if I did an
instructional tour at that I'dhave a chance to switch over to
Qorman, you know, something ofthat nature. But, if there's
something that, know, you'vebeen working so long to do, I
would definitely try andpersuade everybody to follow
that dream.
Bryan (37:07):
Yeah. I like to ask questions about this when I get
a chance, especially if somebodykind of puts more personal info
in their bio. After phase two inMoose Jaw, you got married to
your wife, Candice. Now phasethree is a long and challenging
course for helicopter students.So how did you balance your
personal and professional lifeat that time?
John (37:25):
So my wife has been super supportive of me. Kind of when I
decided to join the military, Iwouldn't say it was a decision I
made, it was kind of a decisionthat we made that she would
support me through the trainingand becoming a pilot in the
military. So it was kind ofunderstood going into it that it
was gonna be a challengingprocess that I'd have to
dedicate a lot of time to. So oncompleting phase two, we had
(37:47):
obviously been planning for awhile to get married and it
turned out it was quite tighttimeframe between phase two and
phase three. So we made the mostmade the most of that.
And then getting back on course,Candice has just always been so
supportive of of my career anddoing everything she can to make
sure that I'm successful throughthat. Yeah, we've been a team
(38:08):
throughout it all. So I'm reallyproud of that.
Bryan (38:10):
Yeah. And I would say like, especially when I talk to,
let's say like a general orsomething sometimes and they
still are with their spouse. Theones who are who make it are the
ones who approach this as a teamand like they're not just out
making decisions by themselvesand, you know, the wife and kids
can deal with it and likethey'll, oh, they'll be fine.
Like it's team decisions. It'syou discuss like the next you
(38:32):
discuss the next bound whetherthat's a posting or a new
position you wanna pursue orwhatever it might be.
So, yeah, it's good that youguys kinda started that way from
the get go even when, like yousaid, when it came to like, are
you gonna join the military?
John (38:46):
Yeah. It is a huge commitment to join military.
Bryan (38:48):
For both people?
John (38:49):
Exactly. And I can totally see why, you know, when when one
partner in the relationshipdoesn't feel like they were
considered in that decision,that could put a lot of stress
on a on a relationship. So thefact that, you know, we
knowingly went down this roadtogether, I think helped. And
then we just have like afortunately super strong
relationship and I'm super happywith how she's been able to to
(39:10):
step up all the time when I needher to.
Bryan (39:11):
Yeah. That's awesome. So a week after you were married,
you were back in the cockpit forphase three rotary wing
training. Did you find it toughto shift back into work mode so
soon after your wedding?
John (39:22):
We had about a month off between phase two and phase
three and I got married rightnear the end of that just before
going back on to phase three.And it happened so quickly that
I I got married and then we hada couple of days and then I was
driving back across the countryto Portage to start phase three.
I don't even know at that timethat the whole fact that I had
just been married really evenhad a chance to sink in.
Bryan (39:43):
Yeah.
John (39:44):
And then because I had that drive, I kind of got
refocused back into that pilottraining mindset. And then in
Portage, I was removed from thatwhole environment once again.
Yeah. And so I was reallyfocused at that time on my pilot
training again. And because Iwas flying helicopters and
wanted to get into thecormorant, which is a
challenging cockpit to get into,I really wanted to throw myself
(40:07):
into that course and just try tocompletely focus on that.
Fortunately, we had an amazingsummer of weather in Portage. I
guess that would have been in2019. And we were able to get
through the two zero six phaserelatively quickly about a three
to four week gap betweenfinishing the two zero six and
getting on the four twelve.
Bryan (40:27):
That's awesome.
John (40:28):
So I was able to take some leave and Candice and I actually
went on our honeymoon at thattime. Oh, where'd you go? We
went to Aruba. Nice. Had a greattrip.
It was super fun. So so I gotto, you know, break up the
course a little bit and spendsome time with her and and that
was awesome.
Bryan (40:40):
Yeah. So you guys were IR at that time or Which is for
listeners is imposedrestrictions. So that's when
you're you're posted away fromyour spouse.
John (40:49):
Yeah. I drove She met me in Toronto where my parents live
now. So I drove from Portage toToronto. She We met there and
then we traveled down to Aruba.
Bryan (40:57):
Okay. Right on.
John (40:59):
So how did you like learning to fly helicopters?
Flying a helicopter initially isscary and challenging. The
instructors like John Groton,Jeff Barth, those guys a lot of
courage in day to day getting inthe helicopter with brand new
(41:20):
helicopter pilots. It's superunstable initially. Even just
sitting in ops watching peoplelift off for the first time for
some of their first fewhelicopter flights, it's
terrifying just to watch itbecause it seems so unstable.
Yeah. Slowly but surely, youstart to figure out how all the
controls are linked together andthe inputs you need to make to
(41:42):
maintain a stable platform. Andbefore you know it, after I
think it's ten hours orsomething, you know you're going
solo. And and that's crazy. Thefirst time you go solo, you're
almost thinking, are you are yousure?
Like, are are you sure I'm readyfor this? Just to take this
machine. But, yeah, it wasamazing. Such a good group of
people at the school. MikeBottoms and Michael Cain,
(42:06):
teaching us to fly helicoptersinitially.
It was a great experience.
Bryan (42:10):
Yeah. Those are a really great group of people that
you've mentioned. And the schoolis is really chock full of great
instructors who really careabout their students and really
want them to succeed. So it'sgood to hear that you had that
same experience.
John (42:24):
Yeah. I think that I tried to get back to my phase one
mindset a little bit on phasethree about just doing my best
and be happy with the resultsand tried to to, you know, wash
away a little bit of thatpressure and anxiety. Mhmm.
Definitely still felt it, but,just wanted to do my best and
there was such a group greatgroup of people around me, all
my course mates that that Ireally enjoyed the course.
Bryan (42:44):
Yeah. What did you find was the most challenging part of
phase three?
John (42:48):
So in phase three, I definitely experienced a lot of
test anxiety getting ready for,the selection to what airframe
we'd be flying. I put a lot ofpressure on myself for that. I
was very excited to be there andto be moving forward. Coming up
to those tests, I would really,really get quite a bit of
nerves. So that was difficult.
Bryan (43:10):
How did you overcome that?
John (43:12):
I think that just having the opportunity to be around and
study with my course mates, PatMcPherson, Michael Pearson, a
lot of really good guys, MartinDamianoff, Ian Robertson, they
were all so good to worktogether and study together and
make sure that everybody wasgonna be successful in the
course. It is competitive in away. Everybody's fighting for
(43:32):
slots on airframes, but at theend of the day, everybody still
wanted to help each other besuccessful. So having them there
and then just having a routine,trying to like kind of get into
the the routine of getting up inthe morning, getting a workout,
going to study, get my flightdone, prep for the next flight.
Yeah.
Just kind of breaking it up inthat way really helped me sort
(43:53):
of just just get into a rhythm.
Bryan (43:55):
Yeah. When you can kind of make it Groundhog Day and
every day is fairly predictableand similar and you have your
little comfort routine, like yousaid, get that workout in and do
all the things you need to do,It makes life a lot more
predictable and kind of lowstress.
John (44:09):
Yep, definitely helped for me.
Bryan (44:12):
What was the most exciting experience you had on
phase three?
John (44:16):
Well, think that everybody has an exciting experience while
they're doing their first soloson the 206. Whether or not they
mean to or not, that's anexciting time. Getting to fly
around an area north, just onthe North part of Southport in a
little two zero six. I feel likeit's the dirt bike of the sky in
a way. And it's such a simplemachine in a lot of ways
compared to some of the otherhelicopters that I've flown now.
(44:37):
But it's a real pleasure to justrip around in and you're just
kind of getting acquainted withflying a helicopter, and having
that freedom to go and, oh, Iwanna go land over there. And
you know what I mean? There's somuch freedom in a helicopter.
That that was a really awesometime. Yeah.
It sounds like a
Bryan (44:53):
lot of fun. I think I'm a multi guy, but I think
helicopters are super cool.
John (44:58):
I appreciate that.
Bryan (44:59):
They're they're way I think they're very versatile and
the flying flying is like prettyamazing, especially some of the
low level flying that they cando is pretty spectacular.
John (45:11):
Yeah. Absolutely. It's it's a cool way to see the
world.
Bryan (45:15):
What did it feel like to march up on parade and get your
wings?
John (45:18):
I graduated in early twenty twenty. Oh, no. So, yeah,
I had a really interestingexperience actually for my my
graduation from phase three ofmy wings. At that time, we were
all dispersed. So Candice wasliving in Comox.
I finished course a little bitearly. I finished in December
2019. And I asked if I couldleave for a few weeks to spend
(45:39):
some time with her before mygrad because I was done flying.
And so that got approved. Andjust after I left is when the
pandemic kind of hit the world.
Bryan (45:48):
Yeah. When they told us all to like stay in your house
basically. Yeah, exactly.Military was like It was
essentially like an order to notleave your place of residence.
John (45:57):
Exactly. So I was there in Comox at that time and they
said, hey, just stay there fornow. There was so much up in the
air. They didn't know what washappening with the whole
pandemic. Just stay where youare.
So I ended up staying there. Andthen a couple of weeks, let it
into a couple of months. And Iended up doing my grad
virtually.
Bryan (46:15):
Really?
John (46:15):
So it was kind of weird. It was unfortunate we didn't get
to have our grad dinner. Thatwas something I really wish I
had been able to take part in.And we did a virtual wing
ceremony. So that was, you know,not not the ideal ceremonious
occasion.
Bryan (46:31):
How do they do that? Like like how do you get wings?
John (46:34):
Gerald Walker was there and I remember I think I didn't
fully realize that I wasexpected to be there for the
virtual ceremony. So I kindamaybe got woken out of bed even
Bryan (46:46):
Oh, really? For my
John (46:47):
own wing ceremony. I can't remember completely. But they
kinda they they presented us ourwings. And then afterwards, a
few months later in August, Ihad my dad actually come out to
Comox. So he actually pinned mywings on me.
Oh, that's awesome. That wasYeah. That was a really cool
experience.
Bryan (47:06):
That's cool. Did he get like a picture and stuff?
John (47:08):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. The the squadron CEO
at the time, you know, broughtas many people on the ramp as
they could. And I don't thinkit's something that happens
super often because generallyeverybody gets winged in
Portage.
Yeah. So it was pretty neat tobe able to get winged in Comox
in front of the Coromaran withmy dad.
Bryan (47:21):
That's awesome. In some ways, that's kind of it's very
unique. I I won't say it's morespecial than getting a wings
grad parade because, like, as wetalked about earlier, those are
very special moments.
John (47:31):
Yeah. Exactly.
Bryan (47:32):
That's a pretty close second, if not a tie.
John (47:34):
Yeah. Definitely a silver lining to
Bryan (47:35):
it. Yeah. So as we've already mentioned, you passed
phase three and were selected tofly the CH one forty nine
Kormorant with four forty twoTransport and Rescue Squadron in
Comox BC. I think we've kind ofknow this, but was that what you
wanted?
John (47:48):
Yeah. Absolutely. From the time I found out that I was
gonna be flying helicopters, itwas my sole goal to try and get
to Comox and fly the Cormorant.
Bryan (47:55):
Yeah. So you got the location, you got the aircraft.
John (47:58):
I would have been happy, you know, anywhere flying the
Cormorant especially. Yeah. Butto get into Comox, flying the
Cormorant,
Bryan (48:05):
like was That really the grand slam.
John (48:07):
Dream come true. I had to pinch myself a few times.
Bryan (48:10):
What did you learn during your time as a student on phase
three that influenced how youconduct yourself as a star pilot
later in life?
John (48:17):
I really, really, really took away the value of, the
camaraderie and being close knitwith the other guys that are
around you. Even at times whenyou feel competitive with each
other, helping each other,working together. And and on
phase three in the helicoptersis the first time we're really
exposed to crew, like a crewconcept in the cockpit. And so
(48:39):
taking that to heart andembodying that style of flying
in it with a crewed environmentdefinitely was huge for working
at four forty two in the sireenvironment. So just being a
team player always and I thinkmy communication skills,
probably have to ask my wife,but I think that they probably
improved vastly being in thecockpit with somebody else and
(49:01):
explaining that to them what I'mdoing.
Bryan (49:03):
Yeah. During my time with four forty two, I could really
clearly see how much teamworkwas valued there and, it's great
that that's something youcarried forward from your time
at phase three.
John (49:14):
Yeah. Yeah. It's one of my favorite parts of working in the
siren environment at four fourtwo and I'm sure it'll be like
that at four thirteen as well.Yep. Is just how tight knit
everybody is in that squadronand and amongst the the crews
when we're out operating, youknow, we all work together to
achieve the mission.
It's definitely a teamenvironment and every person on
the team is a key player.
Bryan (49:32):
Yeah. For sure. So we're going to close with some advice.
What advice would you give to
John (49:36):
a student just starting out their flight training today?
Flight training can be extremelystressful and can go by before
you know it. So I woulddefinitely advise everybody
involved in pilot training totake a moment. Try to do it at
least once a flight if you can,but just take a deep breath and
look out and see where you are.It's an amazing thing to be able
to fly, to be up in the cloudsand, seeing the sights that we
(50:00):
get to see.
So just really try and and putthat back in perspective once in
a while and take a moment toyourself if you can.
Bryan (50:06):
Awesome. Okay, John. That is going to wrap up part one of
our chat for today. Thanks somuch for sharing your memories
of early flight training in theRCAF, and I'm really looking
forward to hearing your SARstories when we return for part
two. So thanks again for beinghere.
John (50:20):
Thanks so much for having me. Excited for it.
Bryan (50:23):
Okay. That wraps up part one of our chat with John. Tune
in next week as we dive into hisoperational time on the CH one
forty nine Cormorant, includingsome very challenging missions
he took part in and the road tobecoming an aircraft commander.
Do you have any questions orcomments about anything you've
heard in this show? Would you orsomeone you know make a great
guest, or do you have a greatidea for a show?
You can reach out to us at thepilotprojectpodcast@Gmail.com or
(50:47):
on all social media at at podpilot project. And be sure to
check out that social media forlots of great videos of our RCAF
and mission aviation aircraft.As always, we'd like to thank
you for tuning in and ask foryour help with the big three.
That's like and follow us onsocial media, share with your
friends, and follow and rate usfive stars wherever you get your
podcasts. That's all for now.
(51:08):
Thanks for listening. Keep theblue sign up. See you. Engineer,
shut down all four. Shuttingdown all four engines.
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