April 27, 2025 • 49 mins
What happens when you blend Korean heritage with American upbringing and add a splash of Hawaiian influence? You get Soju, a restaurant that defies easy categorization while serving up some of Pittsburgh's most intriguing flavor combinations.
(00:37) Chef Simon Chough welcomes us into his Garfield restaurant for a candid conversation about cultural identity through food. "Soju is a direct reflection of myself and my experiences," he shares, explaining how dishes like kimchi nachos with wonton chips and nori-dusted French fries represent his personal journey rather than adherence to traditional Korean cuisine. Simon's culinary perspective was shaped by family meals prepared by his grandmother, who adapted Korean recipes using ingredients available at the local Giant Eagle.
(18:47) Simon recounts the restaurant's recent struggle with disaster. When pipes burst during a January cold spell, flooding the dining room while the restaurant was closed, the Pittsburgh community rallied with donations to support staff during the two-month closure. "Never underestimate the community around you," Simon reflects, noting how this challenging period actually renewed everyone's passion for the restaurant.
(30:11) Simon's path to restaurateur wasn't straightforward – from studying biochemistry in Hawaii to working unpaid in a prestigious kitchen, his story illustrates the winding journey many chefs experience. Now firmly established in Pittsburgh's culinary landscape, he pays it forward by offering pop-up opportunities to emerging chefs and promoting other local restaurants on his social media. Follow Simon's culinary adventures on Instagram and experience for yourself why his "Korean food is Japanese food's casual cousin" philosophy creates dishes that are impossible to resist.
(47:38) Later in the show we get a quick wine pick from Catherine Montest for pork barbecue and a day-off recipe from Third Space owner/baker Chloe Newman. Come hungry!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Doug (00:01):
Welcome to The Pittsburgh Dish.
I'm your host.
Doug Howman, how do you createa menu that blends Korean
heritage and authentic lifeexperience?
Simon Chough of Soju tells ushow, heading out for some pork
barbecue in these warmer months,we ask Catherine Montest what
bottle of wine she would grab togo along, and what food stuff
(00:26):
might a dedicated bread baker bemaking at home?
Chloe Newman shares her perfectgrilled cheese.
All that ahead.
Stay tuned.
Thank you so much for comingover and for being on the show.
Would you introduce yourself toour listeners and what you have
going on right now in the world?
Simon (00:46):
of food.
Sure, my name is Simon Chough.
I am the chef and owner of SojuRestaurant in Garfield.
Aside from the day-to-day atthe restaurant, I try to get
involved in interfacing with thecommunity a good bit.
So I do.
You know events.
I just did one with bad saunathat's right down the street
from us.
Yeah, and I have another comingup with this new.
(01:08):
O'Noir foundation pair us witha designer of clothing and we
make a dish based upon thatclothing.
So that should be fun.
Doug (01:17):
Yeah, I think uh o' noir.
They've done a couple uh bigthings over the years, and isn't
it like dark food and stuff tooright.
Simon (01:24):
It's like a black theme.
Yes, yes.
Doug (01:26):
Uh-huh, oh, that's exciting.
Simon (01:27):
Yeah, it is exciting.
I'm a, you know.
Yeah, I've never done anythinglike it, so yeah, it'll be
interesting.
Doug (01:33):
So you mentioned you're in the Garfield neighborhood.
There's so much going on overthere and you own that building
that Soju is in right.
Simon (01:39):
Yes, we are very fortunate to have bought that
building way back in what it waslike 2008,.
I believe.
Doug (01:48):
Oh, really we bought the building.
Simon (01:49):
yeah, it took us a very long time to open.
Doug (01:53):
And so when did Soju, the restaurant open?
Simon (01:56):
It opened in 2018.
Oh wow, About seven years ago.
We just celebrated our seventhanniversary on April 1st.
Doug (02:02):
Congratulations, thank you .
Seventh anniversary on April1st.
Congratulations, thank you Forsomeone that hasn't visited your
restaurant.
Let's just quickly define thecuisine and what they're going
to find when they visit Soju.
Simon (02:13):
Well, I always like to tell people that Soju is a
direct reflection of myself andmy experiences.
Rather than a I bill it as aKorean American restaurant.
I try to refrain fromtraditional Korean like
advertising myself as atraditional Korean restaurant,
because we are not.
Doug (02:32):
That you have nachos and French fries on the menu.
Simon (02:37):
So you know, it is really just a casual Korean American
eatery.
Based on my experiences, my dadwas born in Seoul and my mother
was born in EasternPennsylvania, in Wolfsburg, and
then I've been there's littleHawaiian influences there
(02:57):
because I spent about five yearsout there and it's just kind of
a culmination, it's anembodiment of myself really.
Doug (03:04):
I love that.
I love that you're bringingsomething so unique.
I mean some of the things thatI really like and we'll have to
get into the food, but thekimchi nachos which you make.
It's not with nachos, right,it's with the wontons.
Simon (03:14):
It's the wonton chips.
Doug (03:15):
That's right.
And what else is on the menuthat's sort of unique to your,
your experience.
Simon (03:23):
Yeah, definitely the kimchi nachos, I mean the killer
tofu is just something that islike I've always enjoyed eating
tofu that way.
That's something I've beendoing for, you know, forever now
.
So that kind of is a similarthing.
Nori French fries too, that'sright, you know, to sprinkle
that furikake on French fries isa thing that I've been doing
(03:46):
since I was a kid.
Doug (03:48):
I actually love that combination.
That sort of salty brininessmakes total sense.
Yeah, but who would think ofthat, right?
Yep, yep.
And then let's just go throughthe menu a little bit more.
There's a couple of rolls I'mprobably not going to say that
Gimbap, gimbap.
Simon (04:01):
So what you'll find too is uh with korean food.
The pronunciation and uhphonetic spelling is often
different yes, um, so in koreanit's just characters.
You know, it's another umlanguage, so in another alphabet
, excuse me.
So you'll notice gimbap spelledwith a k, with kimbap, yes, or
(04:22):
you'll notice it with a G gimbap.
Those are basically a KoreanJapanese fusion, you know,
because Korea was occupied byJapan for many years.
You know, and they brought youknow the Nori wrapper and just
the tradition of rolling things.
But like I like to say thatKorean food is Japanese foods
(04:46):
like more like casual cousin youknow like.
Japanese food is like veryrefined and like, uh, the
Japanese would never think toput all of that food inside of a
roll like that.
And Koreans like aren't afraidto just like make things like
universally delicious and veryconventional and you know, just
kind of break tradition there.
Doug (05:07):
I have to say though I'll interject here I think Korean
food to me is a little morezesty too.
I mean we're throwing kimchi inthere and, yeah, sure you might
have a little wasabi on theside for, uh, some Japanese dish
, but not, not the way.
I feel like you're bringingflavors, or even that cuisine
brings flavors, yeah.
Simon (05:22):
Yeah, korean food is all very big.
Yeah, you know, when Iintroduce new staff to it new
staff that comes into my kitchenI always use the three S's.
You know, all of Korean food isa little bit sweet, a little
bit salty and a little bit spicy.
You know so good yeah.
Doug (05:40):
I love all the jangs too.
I don't know how much thatfilters in.
I mean, we buy gochujang herefor at home.
I do a lot of stuff with that,but I know there's even others
and beyond me, right.
Simon (05:50):
They are all basically so .
Jangs are kind of also, youknow, come from like a Japanese
tradition of miso and thenKoreans, like, just like Koreans
do, they make it bolder and,you know, more flavorful, you
know, and just like a deeperkind of more funky fermentation.
Doug (06:10):
The jangs aren't subtle at all like their cousin, the miso
, that's right and I'll justdescribe for any listeners that
are like, what are we talkingabout right now?
So you know, miso paste is likea fermented and congee, it's a
fermented soybean, so, but yougo into like, say, a gochujang
and it's part of that, but thenit's all these chilies, yes, and
salty, and a little hot, butnot crazy and sweet.
(06:32):
Yes, so good, so good.
I'm probably not done talkingabout the food yet, but I did
want to shift around and talkabout the name soju and since,
doing some comparisons toJapanese cuisine.
Folks may have heard of sake,which I understand is more of
like a brewed, almost like wineor beer, but soju is a liquor
(06:52):
that's again from rice, but notbrewed.
Simon (06:55):
Distilled, not brewed.
Yes, distilled, very similar tovodka.
Doug (06:58):
Okay, yeah, and you have.
I think I was looking at themenu online.
There's all these differentflavors.
Simon (07:04):
You guys do.
Doug (07:04):
Can you talk to me a little bit about that?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Simon (07:08):
You know, the flavoring of soju just also speaks to that
same thing that you know, whenintroduced to a product like
that, like a rice liquor,Koreans are not afraid to
introduce, you know, bolderflavors and kind of be like a
little bit insophisticated aboutit.
I love it.
Yeah, you just get all thesewild flavors.
Chloe (07:28):
Yeah.
Simon (07:28):
Yeah, it really is.
It really is.
And the flavors are wonderful,like compared to like your
average, like fruit, you knowartificial fruit flavored
beverages.
Yes, the soju companies reallyhit the nail on the head with a
lot of them.
And uh, you know the the likethe green grape, I mean it
(07:52):
tastes like concord grapes, it's.
It's fantastic.
Is there one that's like aginger?
Yes, there's a ginger based one, and we also do a bunch of
house infusions that are uniqueto uh soju as well.
We uh do an espresso infusionand you know we'll make like
espresso martinis and stuffthat's so hot right now with
some folks, and so that one'sreally great.
We also do an in-house lavenderone, and we also do an in-house
(08:13):
honey infusion.
Doug (08:15):
All of these sound really good for, like, the springtime.
Now we're coming into warmermonths, let's have lavender soju
.
Simon (08:20):
I guess yeah, and that one goes in the purple rain and
when you hit, so it's lavenderand pea flower infused soju.
I guess yeah, yeah, and thatand that and that one goes in
the purple rain, and when youhit, uh, so it's lavender and
pea flower infused soju excuseme, beautiful, right, the pea
flower, yes, and it gives itthat like purplish pink color
and then when you add the citrusand the cocktail, it kind of
changes the color and it's likea really cool thing.
Doug (08:38):
Oh my goodness.
Uh, so we talked about therestaurant.
It's been open for just overseven years.
How did you come to say that'sgoing to be the name?
Simon (08:46):
Yeah, you know, at the inception, when we first bought
the building, I intended onmaybe calling it Simon.
It's S-A-I-M-I-N, it's thestate dish of Hawaii and it's
also my name.
So, like I remember, when Imoved there, people would be
like, oh, simon, like Simon, andI'm like, yeah, sure, simon
(09:09):
like Simon and uh and here Ifind out that it's this uh their
version of like ramen noodles,basically, I mean, they'll even
have it at uh McDonald's, youknow it's like an option at
McDonald's.
It's so widespread and just likevery common people food.
The story of Simon is that allthe sugar cane and when they
(09:29):
would work in the plantations ofHawaii the pineapple and sugar
cane plantations the workerswould all come together at the
end of a long shift and theKoreans would have a little
extra cabbage, the Japanesewould have a little extra fish
and you know it was kind of amelting pot meal and that really
defined my cooking style, likeit.
You know the way that dish wasderived, you know, and I was
(09:50):
like, oh, this is great.
You know I could call it.
But then when I was showing thatto a lot of people, the
phonetics of s-a-i-m-i-n they'relike semen or you know so like
the people like they weren'tfamiliar with the word and the
way it was spelled, so likepeople were getting the
pronunciation wrong and peoplearen't really familiar with that
dish, so it was just somethingthat like meant nothing and it
(10:12):
was hard for them to relate itback to my name.
So I really thought about itand I was like you know what,
maybe we won't call therestaurant that.
And I was thinking of you know,I wanted something that kind of
rolls off the tongue and evenif you don't know what it is,
that at least like it's easilypronounced and then maybe you
learn about it from there.
Doug (10:31):
Exactly my experience with soju.
I was like, is that just a name?
And then I, you know, visitedand dug in.
I'm like, oh, this is a drink.
Oh, it's like sake, but notlike sake you know all of the
(10:52):
things.
Simon (10:52):
So, yeah, it got me even more intrigued with your, with
your place.
Around the time of that namechange, I, um had took a trip to
LA and I hung out at thesefantastic soju bars.
There's one in particularthat's called Dwit Gol Mok and
in um English that translates tolike alley bar, and it's these
like famous little alley barsthat they have in Korea, these
like little spots where they'llhave like delicious food, but
it's these like famous littlealley bars that they have in
Korea.
These like little spots wherethey'll have like delicious food
, but it's kind of like our diveor like gastropub in England.
Doug (11:11):
Perfect, yeah, amazing.
Simon (11:13):
So that's where my wife and I were drinking soju and we
were just like you know whatSoju is, what we?
Doug (11:18):
got to do.
Yeah, sometimes that secondpivot is the perfect pivot.
Simon (11:22):
Yes, it really was.
I can't imagine any other nameat this point.
Doug (11:27):
I want to go back and just ask a couple more questions
about food.
You do have some moretraditional dishes.
Sure, I got to say it rightBibimbap, yes, bibimbap, okay,
and that's typically shareable.
Folks are getting it to share,yeah.
Simon (11:41):
I really enjoy when folks get it to share.
I serve it just like mygrandmother did.
Uh, instead of usually you'llsee it in a stone bowl.
Yes, um, my grandmother neverserved it in a stone bowl, you
know, when I was young, um, youknow that it would have just
been too much, I guess, to get abunch of stone bowls and heat
them all up, so I was never usedto having it in a stone bowl.
(12:03):
So, um, I just omitted that.
That was my experience, and thebibimbap we have is also very
particular to my grandmother.
I've never seen anotherbibimbap set like ours.
The addition of the cucumbersthe pickled cucumbers is
something that my grandmotherwould always do, that I don't
(12:24):
see.
A lot of other restaurants orother, you know bibimbap's
hosting that ingredient and thathas like a really nice rice
vinegar element to it.
So it really contrasts nicelywith the beef.
Doug (12:38):
I was thinking a couple of things that you were talking
about.
That it hits a yinzer picklething that we need yes yes,
since we couldn't say the firstname that you know, I went to
soju.
Simon (12:48):
You're, you're catering to our yinzer palate and and
sort of the readiness to adopt,I think yeah and I think, uh, I
mean, I would have to imaginethat's what my grandmother was
after in its inception.
You know, when she startedcooking that way, because you,
of course, all my grandmother'srecipes are altered from for one
availability of ingredient, youknow, of course, like here, you
(13:10):
don't, you're not going to havea lot of those vegetables that
are, you know, readily availablein korea.
So you know it's a little bitmore americanized vegetable set.
You know, if you have it at atraditional korean restaurant,
you'll notice like some burdockand all these like to to an
average American, unidentifiablevegetables, you know.
But yeah, so my grandmother,I'm sure, altered her recipes
(13:34):
for what was available at GiantEagle Right and also for my
grandfather's.
You know, who she was feedingwas my grandfather's colleagues
and her kids, who were becomingincreasingly, uh, yinzers.
Doug (13:48):
Yes, americanized.
Simon (13:50):
Yeah, and so, yeah, I think she really uh, you know,
because her recipes and you knowwhat I see as uh, what like
traditional Korean food to mewere uh, were already
Americanized and were alreadyaltered.
So by the time I started eatingthis food and getting these
recipes, it had already beenAmericanized.
Doug (14:10):
Yeah, I mean, that's just the experience we hear so much
with folks that come to thiscountry.
They can't find the thingsthey're used to and they just
figure it out.
They know how to adapt andyou've kept that adoption the
whole way through on the menuand I think that's what makes
soju so special.
You've kept that adoption thewhole way through in the menu
and I think that's what makessoju so special.
I do want to just touch on acouple more things.
You know, the bulgogi is sogood, the short ribs are so good
(14:30):
, and then folks may not knowthis, am I saying right Banchan,
the banchan, yes.
Okay.
When we went to Busan a coupleof years ago I think they
brought us like nine or 10little dishes and can we just
describe to listeners if theyhaven't visited and they don't
know what we're talking aboutlike what is the banchan?
Simon (14:49):
Banchan would I'm trying to think of like an English word
that?
Doug (14:52):
kind of condiments.
Simon (14:54):
Yes, but then it's also like pickles and sides, you know
.
So condiment, you know we tendto see condiments as mostly like
sauces, liquids, but you know,within that condiment, like I
mean, if you're going toconsider pickles, condiments,
relish, right, so it's that typeof thing.
Thanks to accent, your foodRight, and often you know, in
(15:14):
Korea, like banchan is the mealyou know it could be.
I mean for what I'veexperienced.
Doug (15:20):
Yeah.
Simon (15:20):
I mean when we traveled to Korea.
The only time I've ever been toKorea it was after my senior,
the summer of my senior year ofhigh school in 2005.
And my grandparents organizedthis big trip the whole extended
family and we all touredthrough the entire country.
We were there for almost amonth.
Yeah, it was amazing.
So we were on a budget.
You know, there was all thesepeople, I think my grandfather,
(15:43):
like, offered to foot a lot ofthe bill, so there wasn't a lot
of budget for eating and um,this meal that we would have day
after day was this bunch on?
You know they would.
There would just be a bowl ofrice in front of everybody and
then a ton of different.
You know, bunch on side dishesto add on little things to add
on, like I mean, I would have toimagine in their inception they
(16:05):
were just based on stretchingout your rice.
You know, they're all verysalty, they're all sometimes a
little bit sweet and somethey're all very strong you know
a lot of fermented things, sothere are things designed
specifically to eat with a bunchof rice.
Eat a small amount of panchonwith a big old bite of rice.
It just kicks up the flavor.
Doug (16:26):
Yes, If someone visits Soju, what are some of the items
they'll experience commonly?
Simon (16:31):
So our banchan set comes with a Korean barbecue and it is
radish kimchi which we makein-house, and also Napa cabbage
kimchi and a pickled cucumberand those are like our core
banchan because that's what Igrew up with.
You know, people are a littlethrown back.
A lot of people expect likethis and I'm thinking about, you
(16:53):
know, trying to incorporate.
I was trying to gauge people'sinterest on the internet with
these strange banchan.
You know, the anchovy one.
Doug (17:02):
You just put that.
I saw the anchovy one in thelast couple of days or something
.
Simon (17:05):
Yeah, I think you know I might try to introduce some of
that in some more extensivebanchan sets.
You know, to be honest, I don'tknow how ready the Pittsburgh
dining scene is for likeextensive banchan like that.
It is very acquired.
Doug (17:21):
It's an acquired taste.
Yeah it, it is very acquired.
It's an acquired taste, yeah.
Simon (17:23):
It's not something when presented to like a meat and
potatoes Pittsburgh person.
Yeah, it's going to be strange.
Doug (17:30):
I think the bigger trend, millennials and younger, are a
little bit more adventurous.
Yes, they are, if I brought myparents to your shop.
Simon (17:36):
Absolutely, Absolutely they are.
Yeah, you know, but I you knowwhat I find too about Korean
food in general and the strengthof the flavors and stuff and
just the traditional Koreandishes, is that people yinzers,
people that live in Pittsburgh,want these kind of things in
theory but they often do not inpractice.
Doug (17:58):
Right, you know when they come into the restaurant you
know, I've, I've.
Simon (18:01):
You know people like tell us, sundubu, is this silken
tofu stew?
It's in a very acquired texture, less than flavor.
You know it's a you know kindof a kimchi esque broth or
gochujang broth, but, um, it'snot as challenging in flavor as
much as it is texture, and I'llput that on the menu every now
and again.
And nobody, nobody has anysilken tofu stew.
People are like, yeah, you knowI'll take Korean barbecue.
Doug (18:22):
Give me a short rib first, yep, exactly, exactly.
Simon (18:26):
So I mean, while I would love, while it would really
satisfy me to explore some ofthose like more traditional and
funky things, unfortunately theyjust don't sell next to
bibimbap and bulgogi.
Doug (18:39):
Yeah.
Simon (18:40):
Oh, this is Simon Cho of Soju Restaurant in Garfield and
you are listening to thePittsburgh Dish.
Doug (18:47):
And beyond your doors, Garfield itself is just hopping
right.
There's a lot of synergy,there's some art nights, things
like that First Fridays.
Yeah, that's right, verysupportive community.
So can we talk about whathappened at the restaurant this
past January and where we arenow.
Simon (19:06):
Oh my, so we do not have tenants upstairs because I don't
want to be a landlord, okay,and the furnace broke upstairs,
cause I don't want to be alandlord, okay, and um, the
furnace broke upstairs, I didn'tknow, and then it got really
cold and the pipes burst, andthen, um, of course it had to
get a little warmer on the daywe were off, so we closed up
we're closed on Mondays and onMonday I got a little bit warmer
(19:28):
and then the pipe you know, theice uh unfroze off the pipe and
caused it looked like jumanjiin the dining room.
Doug (19:36):
It was crazy I saw a post on instagram, my heart sunk for
you, there were maybe some badwords said yeah, and it looked
like it was raining right oh mygosh horrifying, I I know even
in that same week when you'resaying it, I remember lola's
down in lawrenceville yes, andour friends thirdery, which is
also along Penn Avenue, hadfrozen pipes, but nobody had
(19:57):
something quite like.
Simon (19:58):
I know if it would have just happened on a day that we
were working, it would have beenfine.
It would have been like oh,there's a leak, let's go figure
it out.
And we would have turned off thewater and everything would have
been fine.
But of course that had tohappen on a day when nobody was
there.
Doug (20:17):
So you closed for two months for these renovations,
for two months for somerenovations.
Yeah, can we talk a little bitabout what you did to get
through that, especially withyour staff, and how the
community has supported youthroughout.
Simon (20:25):
So my biggest fear.
I mean, you know the building.
Of course I was horrified.
You know we own the building.
It was like scary for that, butI knew in the long run all of
that was going to be okay.
I'm like we have insurance.
We have you know.
But my immediate fear was formy staff.
You know being able.
I mean we have had the samestaff at Soju a lot of it since,
um, we opened you know, uh myum all those seven years.
(20:48):
Yeah, yeah, my core staff,especially in the front of the
house, has been with me since Iopened, and a lot of others have
been with me for quite sometime, and I really feared that I
would lose some of these people.
They're all very talented and Ireally value them.
So it was like, oh no, what amI going to do?
And I thought about it, thoughtabout it and I was like you
(21:09):
know what?
I'll ask the community todonate to a GoFundMe, and you
know, of course, they were ableto collect unemployment, but
also to supplement that becauseand the community really stepped
up and supportedyou know, we raised $13,000.
(21:40):
So, like my staff basically hadfull pay over that, over that
two months, so I mean, and theyall stayed and it really just
renewed everybody's interest init.
Of course, restaurant work isburnout stuff, I mean, and
they're in the same restaurantfor seven years, so two months
off at full pay was just likeone of those things that we
really needed.
Yeah, you know, everybody cameback, they were happy to work
and it wasn't like this, youknow, and they were just like
(22:02):
grateful for the place again and, you know, really renewed
everybody's interest in it, Ithink.
Doug (22:07):
You know.
So this is quite a traumaticexperience for a small business
to have to shutter.
It sounds like in some waysthere's this bright spot because
some of the staff had off andthey were all able to come back.
But if you were talking toother small business owners that
saw this situation, you knowwhat would you share?
That was a lesson or advicethrough any adversity like this.
Simon (22:28):
Yeah, it's the same thing that I would really share about
the restaurant business as awhole.
It's just like hang in there,you know, when things look bad
and catastrophic and you're notmaking the money you should or
you're not, you know thingsaren't happening, then you're
not picking up like you thoughtyou would just hang in there,
(22:48):
even in terms of just like howSoju developed.
I mean, we're, we're packed now, but when we first started, you
know nobody knew what we weredoing and people, you know, and
there was a, you know, a goodyear there that we didn't hardly
do very much business at all,you know.
But like you hang in there andyou be persistent and, uh, stick
it out and often you'll berewarded.
(23:10):
Yeah, and I think also a lessonwas like never underestimate
the community around you and theamount of support you are able
to receive from them.
Doug (23:21):
Yeah, you really have built a community, just the way
you've built this business.
You have recurring patrons andneighbors and people that want
to see you succeed.
I think that's the general vibeI always get and hear from
other folks on this showEverybody's in it for everybody.
Yeah, I'm not just in it formyself to win.
Simon (23:38):
Right, that is the one of the most beautiful things about
Pittsburgh's culinary scene.
You know it's a very tight knitgroup, very uh, I like to say
incestuous.
Doug (23:48):
Everyone's worked for everyone.
Simon (23:49):
Yeah, exactly you know there's this, like you know,
they talk about like the sevendegrees of separation in the
Pittsburgh culinary scene.
There's like three you know, youcould draw a line to any person
from you know two or threepeople.
I really appreciate how thePittsburgh culinary scene is
very cohesive and everybodysupporting one another and, you
(24:11):
know, uh, really looking out forone another.
Like I, it's something that Ido with my social media and
stuff that I don't see a lot ofother restaurants doing, um is
that I promote other restaurantson my social media you know,
like they're my own, because Igo there and I eat there and I
want them to succeed and I knowthat my patrons appreciate
(24:32):
businesses like mine.
So when I see some smallrestaurant tour out there that's
just starting out I like wantto go visit their shop and like
shout them out and make surethat my patrons know that hey,
here's another person that islike me that needs your support
just as much as I did back then.
Doug (24:49):
I love that.
You also do a lot of pop-upsyourself for folks that are
coming up and trying somethingnew, usually on Mondays, or
something when you're shockedyeah, either Sundays or Mondays
we're closed.
Simon (24:59):
So, yeah, we offer the space up to people doing pop-ups
.
Yeah, working so close withthese people that are just
starting out really reminds meof what it was like for starting
out and it renews the wholeexperience for me.
You know, seven years to workon something is a long time and
it could become mundane and ityou know so, to bring these
(25:20):
people in that are just new andI could remember how it was, you
know, when we were firststarting out.
It's a really beautiful thing.
Doug (25:27):
It's like the best mentorship ever.
Yeah, yeah, all right, simon,I'm going to shift gears a
little bit.
You talked earlier about yourfamily quite a bit, and so I'd
like to just ask where did yougrow up?
Simon (25:37):
I grew up in town, in Monroeville, you know, right in
the East suburbs.
I went to Gateway High Schooland then after high school I
went to do undergrad in Hawaiiat Hawaii Pacific University.
Doug (25:52):
And that's where some of the Hawaiian influences come to
the restaurant.
Simon (25:57):
And Hawaii is a really important part of my story
because, being half Korean andhalf American, I've struggled.
Because it seems that I'm notAmerican enough for the white
kids, but I'm not Korean enoughfor the Korean kids.
(26:17):
And it was that type of thingwhere I really just never found
a place.
You know, and it's ethnicallyfor that matter, but in Hawaii
everybody is mixed, something orother.
You know I like fit right inthere.
You know, I remember firstgoing there they would be like,
yeah, you pass for local ifuntil you open your mouth, oh,
(26:37):
how wonderful.
So, yeah, yeah, I grew up inMonroeville.
Uh, you know tight knit family,my, my dad has, uh, five
siblings, so you know big old,uh, big old, extended fit Korean
family and uh, we were all inMonroeville.
You grandfather came to thiscountry straight to Pittsburgh
to practice medicine and then, Ithink quickly after they
(27:00):
settled down in Pittsburgh, mygrandfather found Monroeville
and he built a house out there.
It's the house my parents stilllive in.
It's like the house I grew upin.
So you have generations here.
Yes, and it sounds like fromyour I grew up in so you have
generations here.
Doug (27:11):
Yes, yes, and it sounds like from your stories earlier,
your grandmother started toadopt what she could find at
giant eagle for her food yeah.
What was food life like thenfor you that led you to this
passion?
Did you start cooking at anearly age or well cooked for,
like how?
How was your experience?
Simon (27:29):
yeah, so cooked for, definitely, uh, that.
What I always looked forward tois dinner at grandma's house.
You know it was aunt mary andgrandma my aunt mary is my dad's
oldest sister, okay and thengrandma, who were like really
holding down the food.
So, like, aunt mary's house wasalways a treasure trove.
You know she would always feedus delicious korean food and so
(27:50):
would grandma.
So there was, and then it wasbig like gatherings for us.
Back then we, like once a week,everybody, the whole extended
family, would get together andgrandma would cook korean food
for everybody.
It was, uh, it was reallywonderful and that's like really
the uh atmosphere I'm trying tocapture with.
So that's amazing.
The traditional family dinner,yeah, yeah, of course you going
(28:12):
to have things there, like atour.
You know that aren'tnecessarily, um, a Korean.
You know there was always likeuncle.
Uncle Beanie wanted to bringover his wings or whatever.
Doug (28:24):
Yeah, oh, we didn't even talk about the Korean fried
chicken and the katsu and all ofthat.
So, yeah, I see all that in therestaurant too.
So where do you start cooking,or when?
Simon (28:35):
does that happen?
Oh, so I'd say I startedcooking.
I mean, both of my parents arealso physicians so they weren't
around a lot to cook for us.
They, they like there wasn't alot of.
I never really saw my parentscooking.
You know, every now and againmy mom would make like something
or other, you know like, uh, Ialways say, like the kimchi
nachos, for example, um, I put alittle bit of fish sauce in the
(28:59):
queso, um, and that, uh, thatcomes from a flavor of my youth.
It's like one of the things mymom would like pretty routinely
cook for us is, uh, boxed Macand cheese with peas and tuna
fish.
Oh, and that processed Americancheese flavor with a fish
flavor is.
I always was super fond of that.
And then when I went to go youknow formulate the queso recipe
(29:21):
for the nachos, I was like youknow what?
There are a little fish saucein that queso you know, and so
let's follow that journey.
So you are, you're more of anat-home kid because the parents
are working and then I would youknow, grandma would and aunt
mary would be cooking thesethings and we'd all get together
a little bit early so theywould still be cooking.
So I would have my eye onthings, you know, and there was
(29:41):
certain like production thingsthat the whole they would kind
of incorporate the family into.
You know, there was like kimbapnight or mandu night.
Mandu or the k Korean dumplingsor pot stickers kind of that
requires a lot of tedious, youknow, rolling and folding.
Doug (29:56):
Everybody's going to pinch a dumpling.
Simon (29:57):
Yes, exactly, Yep, Yep.
So you know and those were my alot of my first cooking
experiences.
You know, preparing some ofthis food, that was just very
tedious and grandma would belike, hey, you know, fold these
dumplings.
Doug (30:09):
Oh my gosh, OK, so help.
And grandma would be like, hey,you know, fold these dumplings.
Oh my gosh, oh, okay.
So help me follow this story.
All of this family food ishappening.
You're getting that exposure.
You're doing some cooking foryourself.
You do go off to college inHawaii and what did you study?
Simon (30:21):
Biochemistry.
Okay, yeah, I studiedbiochemistry in Hawaii and, uh,
it took, you know, four years ofdoing that for me to realize
that I want nothing to do withit.
You know, I got into some, somefield work, you know, some lab
work in that, in that field, andI, you know, it was just
absolutely miserable.
It was obviously not what Iwanted to do and I always, you
(30:44):
know, throughout my life, I'dalways worked in restaurants.
You know I washed dishes grownup in a Chinese restaurant.
I worked at McDonald's.
You know I washed dishesgrowing up in a Chinese
restaurant.
I worked at McDonald's, youknow, but I never really thought
about it seriously as a career.
And toward the end of school,what I actually found myself
doing was I lived in this house.
My friend Sam, he had a wealthyfamily who was able to buy him
(31:07):
a home over there, so he movedall of us in.
There was like 16 of us livingin this like real world style
house, you know, and, um, Iwould do a lot of cooking in
that home.
You know, dinner and itcaptured that feeling that I was
after with a family, dinners,yeah, and I would prepare these
meals.
You know everybody kicked moneyat the beginning of the week
and I would do a one takeoutmeal a day and one sit down meal
(31:31):
a day.
And you know, and it just becamelike I was the house chef at
some point and you know, and I,I was, and I really started
experimenting and really tryingto cut my teeth there, you know,
watching internet.
And that was the days of, likeearly YouTube.
And you know I remember thelike just to put it in context
like I had got my firstsmartphone like right around
(31:52):
that time, you know.
So these things were availableand you could have it there
while you were, uh, you know,cooking your dish.
So I, you know, did a lot ofexperimenting and you know I
would go out of my way to go tryto find different, you know
wild ingredients and cook newthings, and it was really just
feeding my interest.
Doug (32:11):
You, you know then this is the spark that starts the
journey to restaurateur.
Simon (32:15):
Yeah, yeah, it was a hobby, you know.
It was something that I justreally enjoyed doing and would
do for in my free time, you know, and um, and so I was like
maybe this is something for me.
I just had, you know, like I,you know, it was like maybe this
is something for me.
So what I did is I took myresume all around to all of what
(32:36):
I thought or what the internetsaid were the very best
restaurants in Hawaii, and thefirst one that I showed up at
was a place and it was the topof my list.
It was the very best restaurantin Hawaii at the time.
It was called Chef Mavro ChefMavro.
Chloe (32:51):
Okay.
Simon (32:52):
M-A-V-R-O and a chef was actually a Korean guy.
His name is Chef Kevin Chongand he was like, look, you know,
gives me a look over, kind ofstern look.
And he's like, yeah, we'll takeyou on as a old school commis.
I was like sure, whatever thatmeans.
What that meant is I was goingto work 60 hours a week unpaid.
(33:19):
So I was just, you know, veryeager and they invited me in and
from the moment I stepped footin there I knew I was in the
right place.
Oh yeah, and it was a smallgroup and they ran just such a
tight knit, awesome kitchen, youknow, family meal every day,
like it.
It was just, it was a realfamily over there and they, they
(33:41):
worked me super hard, theykicked my butt, you know, and
there was a lot of it, but itwas what I needed at the time.
I needed that type of just likehands-on.
Just.
I needed that type of just likehands-on, just like
militaristic you know this ishow our kitchen is run.
Doug (33:55):
You are going to learn that.
Yeah, you're going to learn allthese things here too.
Simon (33:58):
Yeah, I mean I really learned.
I remember, like I remember thefirst day I got there I was
trying to tie my apron behind myback and she shakes his head at
me as I literally had to showme how to put on the apron.
You know, I mean I learned somuch there.
You know more than I could everimagine.
To be honest, like just tocontinue the story, all of the
(34:19):
chefs there were graduates ofCIA Culinary.
Institute of America in HighPark, New York.
So they were like look well, ifyou want to do this thing right,
you're going to go there, youshould do that.
And then again, I was a littleapprehensive.
I was like I don't know moreschooling, whatever, and they're
like you know what, just try itout, go out there for a couple
of years and you know, chefKevin wrote this letter of
(34:40):
recommendation from other chefsand I was able to get like they
were able to give mescholarships and yeah, yeah, I'm
going to go to try anassociate's degree in culinary
arts now, and they were justlike what.
Doug (34:59):
Um, so you go to CIA.
Yes, yes so.
Simon (35:02):
I spend, uh, I spend a little less than a year at Mavro
, um, you know, just really cutmy teeth.
Eventually they hired me on andoffered me a little bit of
money and then, uh, yeah, ciaand Hyde park, new York.
I don't necessarily know if Iwould do the same as my chefs
did and recommend that tosomebody else that was trying to
take my path.
(35:22):
Um, I will say it was great forum, networking and meeting
other people, but, um, in termsof cooking, it seemed like a lot
of time, just like, uh, andespecially coming from such like
a high pace environment and alegit, like you know, triple a
five diamond James Beard awardwinning kitchen going there.
Doug (35:44):
It just seemed like a lesson to it seemed like you're
taking a step back in a lesson,right, like slow pace, like some
basics, yeah, yeah.
Simon (35:52):
If you don't know, it's good if you've never worked in
like a professional kitchenbefore and you're, you know.
But a lot of these, you know alot of these kids there they
were like had to learn how towork like physically and I was
just like oh man, You've beenthere already.
Yeah, it was a little bitfrustrating in that regard.
You know I was very seriousabout it.
I am not necessarily proud ofhow I acted there either.
(36:16):
I was, you know, I made a fewfriends, but I, you know, I was
very just like hard nose.
Doug (36:26):
And I was like, because you were so ready for something
else, you were ready for thenext step.
Right, and that's probably why.
Simon (36:32):
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what it was I yeah.
Doug (36:36):
Well, tell me this, then let's kind of move forward.
When do you get back toPittsburgh and start thinking
about opening Soju?
Simon (36:42):
So, yeah, yeah, I spent some time doing some stages,
like you know.
I realized quickly that NewYork city I wasn't going to be
able to hack it in New York cityeither.
That would I mean.
That city is amazing and it's,you know, the most amazing
restaurants probably in theworld there.
But, um, you know, that citywas going to eat me alive if I
(37:03):
stayed there.
So I uh was like you know whatI think, uh, pittsburgh's the
right place for me, yeah, youknow.
So I moved back to Pittsburgh.
Um, you know, just try to getjobs.
I spent some time, um, you know, managing the dingbats.
You know like uh just likenormal kitchen jobs you know, I
worked at 11 for a while.
Okay, um beer hive.
(37:23):
You know my parents helped meout with buying the building.
We were very fortunate to getin that neighborhood before
prices skyrocketed.
Doug (37:39):
Yes, you really got in at the right time.
Yeah, because it's really justexploded.
Simon (37:42):
It's true, and you know I mean I don't shy away from the
word gentrification, and youknow coming in and that, or
revitalization.
Doug (37:50):
Yeah, because what I would say about Garfield too is I
think it's still very mixed inthe best way right.
Simon (37:56):
And that was part of my business plan from the inception
.
Like, if we're going to buythis building here, you know,
and take advantage of the factthat a building is affordable
and we're able to buy a buildingbecause any other you know
we're going to get Regent Squareor wherever you know I wasn't
able to buy a building so comingin there, I was very cognizant
of that and that I haverestraints as far as, like, I
(38:19):
want this to be affordable forevery single person around.
Doug (38:22):
I agree a hundred percent.
I know that you can walk intoyour place and you can have a
nice meal for under a $20 ticket.
Yeah.
Simon (38:29):
Yeah, and a drink, a happy hour drink, that's right,
you know.
Doug (38:32):
Yeah, yeah, so it's still truly a neighborhood spot for
anybody.
Yes, all right, simon, let'sjump forward.
You guys have reopened now.
I know I just saw that you hada pop-up with Pickle Boy.
Yes, and so how about anythingcoming up in the near term or
even throughout the year?
Do you have any events we'regoing to host?
Simon (38:52):
Pickle Boy pretty often over the next.
You know, pickle Boy is MikeLambert.
He is longtime, uh, bartenderat soju.
Yes, he's a bar guy and he wasalways.
He's just really intosandwiches and like normal
sandwiches.
You know nothing, like nothingcrazy.
We like we're always talkingabout how pittsburgh just
(39:13):
doesn't have like a normal, like, like what?
Uh, what we experience in newyork is bodega.
Yeah, you know like we justwanted to have like bodega food,
you know.
And so soups, sandwichespickles, yeah, yeah, and Mike
kills it.
He's been.
He would always bring in thesepickled eggs, these curry
(39:33):
pickled eggs, and we would havethem for family meal and
everybody would be like we needmore of this type of thing you
know.
So he's going to be popping up.
He's going to be popping up,definitely.
I just am was actually talkinga lot over the last couple of
days with Jason.
We've done pop-ups with himbefore he's peed on my shawarma.
Oh yes, and what we'll do is wekind of do a collab, him and I,
(39:56):
where I stack Korean barbecuemeats on his shawarma spits and
we do like Korean shawarma youknow, and yeah, yeah, We'll add
a little bit of like gochujangto the uh, the eggplant, the
roasted eggplant, spread Likebaba baba ganoush, yeah, baba
ganoush.
Doug (40:10):
Yeah, yeah, and we'll just like Korean up baba ganoush
yeah.
Simon (40:13):
Yeah, so it's a, you know , it is a really cool thing.
So we're talking about doingthat.
I don't have too much lined upas far as pop-ups right now, so
if anybody is listening, yeah,yeah, I mean I I always open
them up to.
I've been trying to encouragemy sous chef, alexis, to do more
(40:34):
.
She was doing them for a while.
After, I'd say, six or eightmonths of working at Soju, I
start to.
You know, bring that up topeople.
Like you know, it is an option.
If you have an idea or have aconcept you want to see how
people would take to a certaintype of food or whatever you
cook, let's do it, and you couldhire me for less than I pay you
.
Doug (40:54):
Kind of an amazing opportunity for someone working
with you.
Simon (40:58):
I think so.
Usually I make the offers youknow like uh, even like I'll
just look for people who are,you know, in the you know like
uh maybe they're doing thebrewery thing or something like
that.
Yeah, exactly, exactly, or Ihave friends you know what I
mean Like, gary is another bigone.
I'm sure he'll show up at somepoint again.
We'll do some collabs.
Uh, gary and I.
Gary is GS Sando company.
Doug (41:17):
GS Sando.
That's right, I've seen GSSando around.
He just got a truck, so you'llsee him more at the brewery
scene.
Simon (41:24):
We were just able to get him into a truck.
So that's awesome, that's cool.
Doug (41:28):
And what about the neighborhood itself the first
Fridays?
Has that been going on, or isit that stuff in?
Simon (41:32):
the first Fridays.
No, first Fridays usually stopsduring the winters.
I mean, there's a little bit ofa pickup.
Every now and again somebodywill host.
You know Irma Freeman will bedoing some art or something, but
in the winter time they're notlike they are in the summertime,
right?
Doug (41:45):
So they're starting to happen again.
It's a block party, I mean itis just fantastic.
All right, simon, it has beenso great to talk to you and so,
hopefully, folks are anxious towant to visit Soju.
Maybe go visit a first Friday.
Why don't we give you a momentto plug your social handles or
your website?
Where can they find you?
Simon (42:04):
I mainly for social media .
I do Instagram, um.
We are soju PGH on Instagram atsoju PGH.
Um, and the website.
You're better off, uh, justlinking to the website from the
internet, because I did not payfor a website, for a domain name
.
So it's just like I use Wix, soit's like my name and then like
(42:26):
a bunch of numbers or somethinglike.
Doug (42:28):
I found you.
If you search Google, you'llfind the website.
Yes, if you just Google.
Simon (42:32):
Soju or Soju Pittsburgh, you will find the website.
That's right and uh.
Part of keeping the Soju at theprice point that it is is that
I try to cut extra costs out ina website domain name is one of
them.
Doug (42:48):
Yeah, yeah, you got to be lean.
Where you can I get it Allright.
Simon, I have one more questionfor you before I let you go
today.
Yes, the name of the show isthe Pittsburgh dish.
What's the best dish you'veeaten?
Simon (43:03):
this past week.
The best dish I've eaten thispast week it would have to be
yakitori.
My friend Jeremiah has I'vebeen calling him the yakitori
guy.
Lately he has become quiteobsessed with yakitori.
Quite obsessed with yakitori,and so he bought this grill and
(43:25):
he upkeeps his tare at leastonce a week.
So he'll cook a yakitori atleast once a week.
Doug (43:27):
Is this just a friend's house?
Yes, we're not.
We're not able to go there withyou.
Simon (43:31):
I wish you were, and it may be one day you know, but
yeah, the best meal I had thisweek was definitely a friend who
cooked me yakitori.
Doug (43:40):
So delicious.
So can you just describe, forlisteners that don't know what
you're talking about, what weresome of the things that were on
the grill?
Simon (43:48):
So yakitori, if you're looking for spots to enjoy
yakitori, I believe Tempanyaki,kyoto has yakitori and also
Umami has yakitori.
And these are skewers, usuallymeat, usually chicken, cooked on
a charcoal grill Charcoal grillyeah, so you get that flavor,
(44:08):
yes, and it's like a specialgrill where the skewer fits so
you could rotate it in almostlike rotisserie, these tiny
little skewers, and yeah, yeah,it is wonderful.
Doug (44:19):
Sounds delicious.
Yeah, it really is, SimonChough.
Thank you so much for being onthe Pittsburgh Dish.
Oh, thank you, Doug, it wasgreat.
Up next, as we get into thewarmer months of grilling and
barbecuing, I had anoff-the-cuff question to
challenge our resident wineexpert, Catherine Montest.
Have we talked about barbecueand wine before?
Catherine (44:44):
No, I think we've talked about tailgating and yeah
, no, not barbecue.
Doug (44:47):
If you were just grabbing a bottle and going to somebody
that was actually having a porkbarbecue, what's the bottle you
would grab?
Oh wow.
Catherine (44:54):
Pork barbecue.
I might go for a Grenache,because barbecues you're doing
those outside and a grenache isgoing to have enough acidity to
cut through some of thefattiness in the pork and it's
going to have some nice brightfruit flavors that will
compliment some of the thingsgoing on in that barbecue sauce.
Doug (45:13):
Yes.
Catherine (45:14):
So I would think a grenache would be a really good
choice for that.
Doug (45:16):
Oh, I love this.
As we get through to warmermonths, I swear every day is
cold and then hot and then sunny, but cold.
I'm looking forward to barbecue.
Barbecue is going to be a lotof fun this year.
Thanks so much, catherine.
Catherine (45:29):
My pleasure Doug Perfect.
Doug (45:30):
You can follow Catherine on Instagram at your fairy wine
mother.
That's, you are fairy winemother.
Just a few blocks down the roadfrom Soju is Third Space.
We get a day off.
Recipe from owner and bakerChloe Newman.
Hey everybody, we're joinedtoday with Chloe Newman of Third
Space Bakery.
(45:51):
Chloe, when we've talked before, you are baking a ton of great
bread and other pastries anddelectables at Third Space.
I always wonder when someone isnot in their food business and
maybe they have a day off, whatare you making for yourself at
home?
Do you have a recipe for us?
Chloe (46:10):
A lot of the cooking that I do at home is not
recipe-based.
It's often you know what's inthe fridge, what can I throw
together.
Maybe it's something left overfrom the bakery that I was lucky
enough to snag.
But you know, when I do havebread in the house, which is
almost every day now, one of myeasy weeknight meals is making a
grilled cheese and tomato soup.
(46:31):
And again, you know, not aparticular recipe in mind, but I
do have some helpful hints forfolks, especially if you're
using third space bread.
I've tried making grilledcheese with pretty much all of
our breads.
I do think the house loaf isyour, you know your classic
choice there Nice and crusty,soft on the inside.
Doug (46:52):
Great crumb, as we've talked about before, exactly.
Chloe (46:55):
Yep, yeah, you might get a little bit of those cheese
melting pockets, but it's notlike all over the place.
I do like to use mayonnaise onthe outside.
I know that there's some backand forth on whether to use
mayonnaise or butter.
I think mayonnaise is the wayto go.
Doug (47:08):
Personally, I've done this it browns so nicely and it adds
a little more flavor, a littletang sometimes.
I guess it probably depends onthe mayonnaise you use.
Chloe (47:17):
Yeah.
Yeah, I do like to use at leasttwo kinds of cheese on the
inside.
I think that provides a nicelittle flavor flavor balance.
Doug (47:25):
Do you have some like preference, like what's your
favorites?
Chloe (47:28):
I was doing a Colby Jack and Havarti, yeah, and that was
really.
That was a nice blend, and myother recommendation would be to
really go low and slow whenyou're cooking the grilled
cheese.
You know, just get it reallynice and melty and I do like to,
I mean, I personally like toalmost burn the bread but a
(47:51):
really nice dark brown for thebest flavor.
Doug (47:54):
Yeah, sounds delicious.
Any tricks to the tomato soupthat you pair it with?
Chloe (47:59):
You know, some days I will just go straight Campbell's
.
Doug (48:02):
Why not?
I think it is classic.
Chloe (48:05):
Yeah, but otherwise, uh, using fire roasted tomatoes is
really delicious.
Yeah.
Just for the soup base, um, youknow, a touch of half and half
or cream, um, any kind ofItalian seasonings that you have
in your, in your pantry, um,you know, love throwing some
hidden veggies in there.
If possible.
Saute up some onions, somecarrots even, and blend that in,
(48:26):
just, why not?
Whatever suits you.
Doug (48:30):
I love riffing a recipe like that with whatever's on
hand, and I'm open to a grilledcheese and tomato soup any day.
Chloe Newman, thank you so muchfor being on the Pittsburgh
Dish.
Chloe (48:41):
Thank you for having me.
Doug (48:43):
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thirdspacepgh.
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(49:04):
You can find links to thoseoptions at the bottom of our
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That's our show for this week.
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We'll be back again next weekwith another fresh episode.
(49:27):
Stay tuned.
Welcome to The Pittsburgh Dish.
I'm your host.
Doug Howman, how do you createa menu that blends Korean
heritage and authentic lifeexperience?
Simon Chough of Soju tells ushow, heading out for some pork
barbecue in these warmer months,we ask Catherine Montest what
bottle of wine she would grab togo along, and what food stuff
(00:26):
might a dedicated bread baker bemaking at home?
Chloe Newman shares her perfectgrilled cheese.
All that ahead.
Stay tuned.
Thank you so much for comingover and for being on the show.
Would you introduce yourself toour listeners and what you have
going on right now in the world?
Simon (00:46):
of food.
Sure, my name is Simon Chough.
I am the chef and owner of SojuRestaurant in Garfield.
Aside from the day-to-day atthe restaurant, I try to get
involved in interfacing with thecommunity a good bit.
So I do.
You know events.
I just did one with bad saunathat's right down the street
from us.
Yeah, and I have another comingup with this new.
(01:08):
O'Noir foundation pair us witha designer of clothing and we
make a dish based upon thatclothing.
So that should be fun.
Doug (01:17):
Yeah, I think uh o' noir.
They've done a couple uh bigthings over the years, and isn't
it like dark food and stuff tooright.
Simon (01:24):
It's like a black theme.
Yes, yes.
Doug (01:26):
Uh-huh, oh, that's exciting.
Simon (01:27):
Yeah, it is exciting.
I'm a, you know.
Yeah, I've never done anythinglike it, so yeah, it'll be
interesting.
Doug (01:33):
So you mentioned you're in the Garfield neighborhood.
There's so much going on overthere and you own that building
that Soju is in right.
Simon (01:39):
Yes, we are very fortunate to have bought that
building way back in what it waslike 2008,.
I believe.
Doug (01:48):
Oh, really we bought the building.
Simon (01:49):
yeah, it took us a very long time to open.
Doug (01:53):
And so when did Soju, the restaurant open?
Simon (01:56):
It opened in 2018.
Oh wow, About seven years ago.
We just celebrated our seventhanniversary on April 1st.
Doug (02:02):
Congratulations, thank you .
Seventh anniversary on April1st.
Congratulations, thank you Forsomeone that hasn't visited your
restaurant.
Let's just quickly define thecuisine and what they're going
to find when they visit Soju.
Simon (02:13):
Well, I always like to tell people that Soju is a
direct reflection of myself andmy experiences.
Rather than a I bill it as aKorean American restaurant.
I try to refrain fromtraditional Korean like
advertising myself as atraditional Korean restaurant,
because we are not.
Doug (02:32):
That you have nachos and French fries on the menu.
Simon (02:37):
So you know, it is really just a casual Korean American
eatery.
Based on my experiences, my dadwas born in Seoul and my mother
was born in EasternPennsylvania, in Wolfsburg, and
then I've been there's littleHawaiian influences there
(02:57):
because I spent about five yearsout there and it's just kind of
a culmination, it's anembodiment of myself really.
Doug (03:04):
I love that.
I love that you're bringingsomething so unique.
I mean some of the things thatI really like and we'll have to
get into the food, but thekimchi nachos which you make.
It's not with nachos, right,it's with the wontons.
Simon (03:14):
It's the wonton chips.
Doug (03:15):
That's right.
And what else is on the menuthat's sort of unique to your,
your experience.
Simon (03:23):
Yeah, definitely the kimchi nachos, I mean the killer
tofu is just something that islike I've always enjoyed eating
tofu that way.
That's something I've beendoing for, you know, forever now
.
So that kind of is a similarthing.
Nori French fries too, that'sright, you know, to sprinkle
that furikake on French fries isa thing that I've been doing
(03:46):
since I was a kid.
Doug (03:48):
I actually love that combination.
That sort of salty brininessmakes total sense.
Yeah, but who would think ofthat, right?
Yep, yep.
And then let's just go throughthe menu a little bit more.
There's a couple of rolls I'mprobably not going to say that
Gimbap, gimbap.
Simon (04:01):
So what you'll find too is uh with korean food.
The pronunciation and uhphonetic spelling is often
different yes, um, so in koreanit's just characters.
You know, it's another umlanguage, so in another alphabet
, excuse me.
So you'll notice gimbap spelledwith a k, with kimbap, yes, or
(04:22):
you'll notice it with a G gimbap.
Those are basically a KoreanJapanese fusion, you know,
because Korea was occupied byJapan for many years.
You know, and they brought youknow the Nori wrapper and just
the tradition of rolling things.
But like I like to say thatKorean food is Japanese foods
(04:46):
like more like casual cousin youknow like.
Japanese food is like veryrefined and like, uh, the
Japanese would never think toput all of that food inside of a
roll like that.
And Koreans like aren't afraidto just like make things like
universally delicious and veryconventional and you know, just
kind of break tradition there.
Doug (05:07):
I have to say though I'll interject here I think Korean
food to me is a little morezesty too.
I mean we're throwing kimchi inthere and, yeah, sure you might
have a little wasabi on theside for, uh, some Japanese dish
, but not, not the way.
I feel like you're bringingflavors, or even that cuisine
brings flavors, yeah.
Simon (05:22):
Yeah, korean food is all very big.
Yeah, you know, when Iintroduce new staff to it new
staff that comes into my kitchenI always use the three S's.
You know, all of Korean food isa little bit sweet, a little
bit salty and a little bit spicy.
You know so good yeah.
Doug (05:40):
I love all the jangs too.
I don't know how much thatfilters in.
I mean, we buy gochujang herefor at home.
I do a lot of stuff with that,but I know there's even others
and beyond me, right.
Simon (05:50):
They are all basically so .
Jangs are kind of also, youknow, come from like a Japanese
tradition of miso and thenKoreans, like, just like Koreans
do, they make it bolder and,you know, more flavorful, you
know, and just like a deeperkind of more funky fermentation.
Doug (06:10):
The jangs aren't subtle at all like their cousin, the miso
, that's right and I'll justdescribe for any listeners that
are like, what are we talkingabout right now?
So you know, miso paste is likea fermented and congee, it's a
fermented soybean, so, but yougo into like, say, a gochujang
and it's part of that, but thenit's all these chilies, yes, and
salty, and a little hot, butnot crazy and sweet.
(06:32):
Yes, so good, so good.
I'm probably not done talkingabout the food yet, but I did
want to shift around and talkabout the name soju and since,
doing some comparisons toJapanese cuisine.
Folks may have heard of sake,which I understand is more of
like a brewed, almost like wineor beer, but soju is a liquor
(06:52):
that's again from rice, but notbrewed.
Simon (06:55):
Distilled, not brewed.
Yes, distilled, very similar tovodka.
Doug (06:58):
Okay, yeah, and you have.
I think I was looking at themenu online.
There's all these differentflavors.
Simon (07:04):
You guys do.
Doug (07:04):
Can you talk to me a little bit about that?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Simon (07:08):
You know, the flavoring of soju just also speaks to that
same thing that you know, whenintroduced to a product like
that, like a rice liquor,Koreans are not afraid to
introduce, you know, bolderflavors and kind of be like a
little bit insophisticated aboutit.
I love it.
Yeah, you just get all thesewild flavors.
Chloe (07:28):
Yeah.
Simon (07:28):
Yeah, it really is.
It really is.
And the flavors are wonderful,like compared to like your
average, like fruit, you knowartificial fruit flavored
beverages.
Yes, the soju companies reallyhit the nail on the head with a
lot of them.
And uh, you know the the likethe green grape, I mean it
(07:52):
tastes like concord grapes, it's.
It's fantastic.
Is there one that's like aginger?
Yes, there's a ginger based one, and we also do a bunch of
house infusions that are uniqueto uh soju as well.
We uh do an espresso infusionand you know we'll make like
espresso martinis and stuffthat's so hot right now with
some folks, and so that one'sreally great.
We also do an in-house lavenderone, and we also do an in-house
(08:13):
honey infusion.
Doug (08:15):
All of these sound really good for, like, the springtime.
Now we're coming into warmermonths, let's have lavender soju
.
Simon (08:20):
I guess yeah, and that one goes in the purple rain and
when you hit, so it's lavenderand pea flower infused soju.
I guess yeah, yeah, and thatand that and that one goes in
the purple rain, and when youhit, uh, so it's lavender and
pea flower infused soju excuseme, beautiful, right, the pea
flower, yes, and it gives itthat like purplish pink color
and then when you add the citrusand the cocktail, it kind of
changes the color and it's likea really cool thing.
Doug (08:38):
Oh my goodness.
Uh, so we talked about therestaurant.
It's been open for just overseven years.
How did you come to say that'sgoing to be the name?
Simon (08:46):
Yeah, you know, at the inception, when we first bought
the building, I intended onmaybe calling it Simon.
It's S-A-I-M-I-N, it's thestate dish of Hawaii and it's
also my name.
So, like I remember, when Imoved there, people would be
like, oh, simon, like Simon, andI'm like, yeah, sure, simon
(09:09):
like Simon and uh and here Ifind out that it's this uh their
version of like ramen noodles,basically, I mean, they'll even
have it at uh McDonald's, youknow it's like an option at
McDonald's.
It's so widespread and just likevery common people food.
The story of Simon is that allthe sugar cane and when they
(09:29):
would work in the plantations ofHawaii the pineapple and sugar
cane plantations the workerswould all come together at the
end of a long shift and theKoreans would have a little
extra cabbage, the Japanesewould have a little extra fish
and you know it was kind of amelting pot meal and that really
defined my cooking style, likeit.
You know the way that dish wasderived, you know, and I was
(09:50):
like, oh, this is great.
You know I could call it.
But then when I was showing thatto a lot of people, the
phonetics of s-a-i-m-i-n they'relike semen or you know so like
the people like they weren'tfamiliar with the word and the
way it was spelled, so likepeople were getting the
pronunciation wrong and peoplearen't really familiar with that
dish, so it was just somethingthat like meant nothing and it
(10:12):
was hard for them to relate itback to my name.
So I really thought about itand I was like you know what,
maybe we won't call therestaurant that.
And I was thinking of you know,I wanted something that kind of
rolls off the tongue and evenif you don't know what it is,
that at least like it's easilypronounced and then maybe you
learn about it from there.
Doug (10:31):
Exactly my experience with soju.
I was like, is that just a name?
And then I, you know, visitedand dug in.
I'm like, oh, this is a drink.
Oh, it's like sake, but notlike sake you know all of the
(10:52):
things.
Simon (10:52):
So, yeah, it got me even more intrigued with your, with
your place.
Around the time of that namechange, I, um had took a trip to
LA and I hung out at thesefantastic soju bars.
There's one in particularthat's called Dwit Gol Mok and
in um English that translates tolike alley bar, and it's these
like famous little alley barsthat they have in Korea, these
like little spots where they'llhave like delicious food, but
it's these like famous littlealley bars that they have in
Korea.
These like little spots wherethey'll have like delicious food
, but it's kind of like our diveor like gastropub in England.
Doug (11:11):
Perfect, yeah, amazing.
Simon (11:13):
So that's where my wife and I were drinking soju and we
were just like you know whatSoju is, what we?
Doug (11:18):
got to do.
Yeah, sometimes that secondpivot is the perfect pivot.
Simon (11:22):
Yes, it really was.
I can't imagine any other nameat this point.
Doug (11:27):
I want to go back and just ask a couple more questions
about food.
You do have some moretraditional dishes.
Sure, I got to say it rightBibimbap, yes, bibimbap, okay,
and that's typically shareable.
Folks are getting it to share,yeah.
Simon (11:41):
I really enjoy when folks get it to share.
I serve it just like mygrandmother did.
Uh, instead of usually you'llsee it in a stone bowl.
Yes, um, my grandmother neverserved it in a stone bowl, you
know, when I was young, um, youknow that it would have just
been too much, I guess, to get abunch of stone bowls and heat
them all up, so I was never usedto having it in a stone bowl.
(12:03):
So, um, I just omitted that.
That was my experience, and thebibimbap we have is also very
particular to my grandmother.
I've never seen anotherbibimbap set like ours.
The addition of the cucumbersthe pickled cucumbers is
something that my grandmotherwould always do, that I don't
(12:24):
see.
A lot of other restaurants orother, you know bibimbap's
hosting that ingredient and thathas like a really nice rice
vinegar element to it.
So it really contrasts nicelywith the beef.
Doug (12:38):
I was thinking a couple of things that you were talking
about.
That it hits a yinzer picklething that we need yes yes,
since we couldn't say the firstname that you know, I went to
soju.
Simon (12:48):
You're, you're catering to our yinzer palate and and
sort of the readiness to adopt,I think yeah and I think, uh, I
mean, I would have to imaginethat's what my grandmother was
after in its inception.
You know, when she startedcooking that way, because you,
of course, all my grandmother'srecipes are altered from for one
availability of ingredient, youknow, of course, like here, you
(13:10):
don't, you're not going to havea lot of those vegetables that
are, you know, readily availablein korea.
So you know it's a little bitmore americanized vegetable set.
You know, if you have it at atraditional korean restaurant,
you'll notice like some burdockand all these like to to an
average American, unidentifiablevegetables, you know.
But yeah, so my grandmother,I'm sure, altered her recipes
(13:34):
for what was available at GiantEagle Right and also for my
grandfather's.
You know, who she was feedingwas my grandfather's colleagues
and her kids, who were becomingincreasingly, uh, yinzers.
Doug (13:48):
Yes, americanized.
Simon (13:50):
Yeah, and so, yeah, I think she really uh, you know,
because her recipes and you knowwhat I see as uh, what like
traditional Korean food to mewere uh, were already
Americanized and were alreadyaltered.
So by the time I started eatingthis food and getting these
recipes, it had already beenAmericanized.
Doug (14:10):
Yeah, I mean, that's just the experience we hear so much
with folks that come to thiscountry.
They can't find the thingsthey're used to and they just
figure it out.
They know how to adapt andyou've kept that adoption the
whole way through on the menuand I think that's what makes
soju so special.
You've kept that adoption thewhole way through in the menu
and I think that's what makessoju so special.
I do want to just touch on acouple more things.
You know, the bulgogi is sogood, the short ribs are so good
(14:30):
, and then folks may not knowthis, am I saying right Banchan,
the banchan, yes.
Okay.
When we went to Busan a coupleof years ago I think they
brought us like nine or 10little dishes and can we just
describe to listeners if theyhaven't visited and they don't
know what we're talking aboutlike what is the banchan?
Simon (14:49):
Banchan would I'm trying to think of like an English word
that?
Doug (14:52):
kind of condiments.
Simon (14:54):
Yes, but then it's also like pickles and sides, you know
.
So condiment, you know we tendto see condiments as mostly like
sauces, liquids, but you know,within that condiment, like I
mean, if you're going toconsider pickles, condiments,
relish, right, so it's that typeof thing.
Thanks to accent, your foodRight, and often you know, in
(15:14):
Korea, like banchan is the mealyou know it could be.
I mean for what I'veexperienced.
Doug (15:20):
Yeah.
Simon (15:20):
I mean when we traveled to Korea.
The only time I've ever been toKorea it was after my senior,
the summer of my senior year ofhigh school in 2005.
And my grandparents organizedthis big trip the whole extended
family and we all touredthrough the entire country.
We were there for almost amonth.
Yeah, it was amazing.
So we were on a budget.
You know, there was all thesepeople, I think my grandfather,
(15:43):
like, offered to foot a lot ofthe bill, so there wasn't a lot
of budget for eating and um,this meal that we would have day
after day was this bunch on?
You know they would.
There would just be a bowl ofrice in front of everybody and
then a ton of different.
You know, bunch on side dishesto add on little things to add
on, like I mean, I would have toimagine in their inception they
(16:05):
were just based on stretchingout your rice.
You know, they're all verysalty, they're all sometimes a
little bit sweet and somethey're all very strong you know
a lot of fermented things, sothere are things designed
specifically to eat with a bunchof rice.
Eat a small amount of panchonwith a big old bite of rice.
It just kicks up the flavor.
Doug (16:26):
Yes, If someone visits Soju, what are some of the items
they'll experience commonly?
Simon (16:31):
So our banchan set comes with a Korean barbecue and it is
radish kimchi which we makein-house, and also Napa cabbage
kimchi and a pickled cucumberand those are like our core
banchan because that's what Igrew up with.
You know, people are a littlethrown back.
A lot of people expect likethis and I'm thinking about, you
(16:53):
know, trying to incorporate.
I was trying to gauge people'sinterest on the internet with
these strange banchan.
You know, the anchovy one.
Doug (17:02):
You just put that.
I saw the anchovy one in thelast couple of days or something
.
Simon (17:05):
Yeah, I think you know I might try to introduce some of
that in some more extensivebanchan sets.
You know, to be honest, I don'tknow how ready the Pittsburgh
dining scene is for likeextensive banchan like that.
It is very acquired.
Doug (17:21):
It's an acquired taste.
Yeah it, it is very acquired.
It's an acquired taste, yeah.
Simon (17:23):
It's not something when presented to like a meat and
potatoes Pittsburgh person.
Yeah, it's going to be strange.
Doug (17:30):
I think the bigger trend, millennials and younger, are a
little bit more adventurous.
Yes, they are, if I brought myparents to your shop.
Simon (17:36):
Absolutely, Absolutely they are.
Yeah, you know, but I you knowwhat I find too about Korean
food in general and the strengthof the flavors and stuff and
just the traditional Koreandishes, is that people yinzers,
people that live in Pittsburgh,want these kind of things in
theory but they often do not inpractice.
Doug (17:58):
Right, you know when they come into the restaurant you
know, I've, I've.
Simon (18:01):
You know people like tell us, sundubu, is this silken
tofu stew?
It's in a very acquired texture, less than flavor.
You know it's a you know kindof a kimchi esque broth or
gochujang broth, but, um, it'snot as challenging in flavor as
much as it is texture, and I'llput that on the menu every now
and again.
And nobody, nobody has anysilken tofu stew.
People are like, yeah, you knowI'll take Korean barbecue.
Doug (18:22):
Give me a short rib first, yep, exactly, exactly.
Simon (18:26):
So I mean, while I would love, while it would really
satisfy me to explore some ofthose like more traditional and
funky things, unfortunately theyjust don't sell next to
bibimbap and bulgogi.
Doug (18:39):
Yeah.
Simon (18:40):
Oh, this is Simon Cho of Soju Restaurant in Garfield and
you are listening to thePittsburgh Dish.
Doug (18:47):
And beyond your doors, Garfield itself is just hopping
right.
There's a lot of synergy,there's some art nights, things
like that First Fridays.
Yeah, that's right, verysupportive community.
So can we talk about whathappened at the restaurant this
past January and where we arenow.
Simon (19:06):
Oh my, so we do not have tenants upstairs because I don't
want to be a landlord, okay,and the furnace broke upstairs,
cause I don't want to be alandlord, okay, and um, the
furnace broke upstairs, I didn'tknow, and then it got really
cold and the pipes burst, andthen, um, of course it had to
get a little warmer on the daywe were off, so we closed up
we're closed on Mondays and onMonday I got a little bit warmer
(19:28):
and then the pipe you know, theice uh unfroze off the pipe and
caused it looked like jumanjiin the dining room.
Doug (19:36):
It was crazy I saw a post on instagram, my heart sunk for
you, there were maybe some badwords said yeah, and it looked
like it was raining right oh mygosh horrifying, I I know even
in that same week when you'resaying it, I remember lola's
down in lawrenceville yes, andour friends thirdery, which is
also along Penn Avenue, hadfrozen pipes, but nobody had
(19:57):
something quite like.
Simon (19:58):
I know if it would have just happened on a day that we
were working, it would have beenfine.
It would have been like oh,there's a leak, let's go figure
it out.
And we would have turned off thewater and everything would have
been fine.
But of course that had tohappen on a day when nobody was
there.
Doug (20:17):
So you closed for two months for these renovations,
for two months for somerenovations.
Yeah, can we talk a little bitabout what you did to get
through that, especially withyour staff, and how the
community has supported youthroughout.
Simon (20:25):
So my biggest fear.
I mean, you know the building.
Of course I was horrified.
You know we own the building.
It was like scary for that, butI knew in the long run all of
that was going to be okay.
I'm like we have insurance.
We have you know.
But my immediate fear was formy staff.
You know being able.
I mean we have had the samestaff at Soju a lot of it since,
um, we opened you know, uh myum all those seven years.
(20:48):
Yeah, yeah, my core staff,especially in the front of the
house, has been with me since Iopened, and a lot of others have
been with me for quite sometime, and I really feared that I
would lose some of these people.
They're all very talented and Ireally value them.
So it was like, oh no, what amI going to do?
And I thought about it, thoughtabout it and I was like you
(21:09):
know what?
I'll ask the community todonate to a GoFundMe, and you
know, of course, they were ableto collect unemployment, but
also to supplement that becauseand the community really stepped
up and supportedyou know, we raised $13,000.
(21:40):
So, like my staff basically hadfull pay over that, over that
two months, so I mean, and theyall stayed and it really just
renewed everybody's interest init.
Of course, restaurant work isburnout stuff, I mean, and
they're in the same restaurantfor seven years, so two months
off at full pay was just likeone of those things that we
really needed.
Yeah, you know, everybody cameback, they were happy to work
and it wasn't like this, youknow, and they were just like
(22:02):
grateful for the place again and, you know, really renewed
everybody's interest in it, Ithink.
Doug (22:07):
You know.
So this is quite a traumaticexperience for a small business
to have to shutter.
It sounds like in some waysthere's this bright spot because
some of the staff had off andthey were all able to come back.
But if you were talking toother small business owners that
saw this situation, you knowwhat would you share?
That was a lesson or advicethrough any adversity like this.
Simon (22:28):
Yeah, it's the same thing that I would really share about
the restaurant business as awhole.
It's just like hang in there,you know, when things look bad
and catastrophic and you're notmaking the money you should or
you're not, you know thingsaren't happening, then you're
not picking up like you thoughtyou would just hang in there,
(22:48):
even in terms of just like howSoju developed.
I mean, we're, we're packed now, but when we first started, you
know nobody knew what we weredoing and people, you know, and
there was a, you know, a goodyear there that we didn't hardly
do very much business at all,you know.
But like you hang in there andyou be persistent and, uh, stick
it out and often you'll berewarded.
(23:10):
Yeah, and I think also a lessonwas like never underestimate
the community around you and theamount of support you are able
to receive from them.
Doug (23:21):
Yeah, you really have built a community, just the way
you've built this business.
You have recurring patrons andneighbors and people that want
to see you succeed.
I think that's the general vibeI always get and hear from
other folks on this showEverybody's in it for everybody.
Yeah, I'm not just in it formyself to win.
Simon (23:38):
Right, that is the one of the most beautiful things about
Pittsburgh's culinary scene.
You know it's a very tight knitgroup, very uh, I like to say
incestuous.
Doug (23:48):
Everyone's worked for everyone.
Simon (23:49):
Yeah, exactly you know there's this, like you know,
they talk about like the sevendegrees of separation in the
Pittsburgh culinary scene.
There's like three you know, youcould draw a line to any person
from you know two or threepeople.
I really appreciate how thePittsburgh culinary scene is
very cohesive and everybodysupporting one another and, you
(24:11):
know, uh, really looking out forone another.
Like I, it's something that Ido with my social media and
stuff that I don't see a lot ofother restaurants doing, um is
that I promote other restaurantson my social media you know,
like they're my own, because Igo there and I eat there and I
want them to succeed and I knowthat my patrons appreciate
(24:32):
businesses like mine.
So when I see some smallrestaurant tour out there that's
just starting out I like wantto go visit their shop and like
shout them out and make surethat my patrons know that hey,
here's another person that islike me that needs your support
just as much as I did back then.
Doug (24:49):
I love that.
You also do a lot of pop-upsyourself for folks that are
coming up and trying somethingnew, usually on Mondays, or
something when you're shockedyeah, either Sundays or Mondays
we're closed.
Simon (24:59):
So, yeah, we offer the space up to people doing pop-ups
.
Yeah, working so close withthese people that are just
starting out really reminds meof what it was like for starting
out and it renews the wholeexperience for me.
You know, seven years to workon something is a long time and
it could become mundane and ityou know so, to bring these
(25:20):
people in that are just new andI could remember how it was, you
know, when we were firststarting out.
It's a really beautiful thing.
Doug (25:27):
It's like the best mentorship ever.
Yeah, yeah, all right, simon,I'm going to shift gears a
little bit.
You talked earlier about yourfamily quite a bit, and so I'd
like to just ask where did yougrow up?
Simon (25:37):
I grew up in town, in Monroeville, you know, right in
the East suburbs.
I went to Gateway High Schooland then after high school I
went to do undergrad in Hawaiiat Hawaii Pacific University.
Doug (25:52):
And that's where some of the Hawaiian influences come to
the restaurant.
Simon (25:57):
And Hawaii is a really important part of my story
because, being half Korean andhalf American, I've struggled.
Because it seems that I'm notAmerican enough for the white
kids, but I'm not Korean enoughfor the Korean kids.
(26:17):
And it was that type of thingwhere I really just never found
a place.
You know, and it's ethnicallyfor that matter, but in Hawaii
everybody is mixed, something orother.
You know I like fit right inthere.
You know, I remember firstgoing there they would be like,
yeah, you pass for local ifuntil you open your mouth, oh,
(26:37):
how wonderful.
So, yeah, yeah, I grew up inMonroeville.
Uh, you know tight knit family,my, my dad has, uh, five
siblings, so you know big old,uh, big old, extended fit Korean
family and uh, we were all inMonroeville.
You grandfather came to thiscountry straight to Pittsburgh
to practice medicine and then, Ithink quickly after they
(27:00):
settled down in Pittsburgh, mygrandfather found Monroeville
and he built a house out there.
It's the house my parents stilllive in.
It's like the house I grew upin.
So you have generations here.
Yes, and it sounds like fromyour I grew up in so you have
generations here.
Doug (27:11):
Yes, yes, and it sounds like from your stories earlier,
your grandmother started toadopt what she could find at
giant eagle for her food yeah.
What was food life like thenfor you that led you to this
passion?
Did you start cooking at anearly age or well cooked for,
like how?
How was your experience?
Simon (27:29):
yeah, so cooked for, definitely, uh, that.
What I always looked forward tois dinner at grandma's house.
You know it was aunt mary andgrandma my aunt mary is my dad's
oldest sister, okay and thengrandma, who were like really
holding down the food.
So, like, aunt mary's house wasalways a treasure trove.
You know she would always feedus delicious korean food and so
(27:50):
would grandma.
So there was, and then it wasbig like gatherings for us.
Back then we, like once a week,everybody, the whole extended
family, would get together andgrandma would cook korean food
for everybody.
It was, uh, it was reallywonderful and that's like really
the uh atmosphere I'm trying tocapture with.
So that's amazing.
The traditional family dinner,yeah, yeah, of course you going
(28:12):
to have things there, like atour.
You know that aren'tnecessarily, um, a Korean.
You know there was always likeuncle.
Uncle Beanie wanted to bringover his wings or whatever.
Doug (28:24):
Yeah, oh, we didn't even talk about the Korean fried
chicken and the katsu and all ofthat.
So, yeah, I see all that in therestaurant too.
So where do you start cooking,or when?
Simon (28:35):
does that happen?
Oh, so I'd say I startedcooking.
I mean, both of my parents arealso physicians so they weren't
around a lot to cook for us.
They, they like there wasn't alot of.
I never really saw my parentscooking.
You know, every now and againmy mom would make like something
or other, you know like, uh, Ialways say, like the kimchi
nachos, for example, um, I put alittle bit of fish sauce in the
(28:59):
queso, um, and that, uh, thatcomes from a flavor of my youth.
It's like one of the things mymom would like pretty routinely
cook for us is, uh, boxed Macand cheese with peas and tuna
fish.
Oh, and that processed Americancheese flavor with a fish
flavor is.
I always was super fond of that.
And then when I went to go youknow formulate the queso recipe
(29:21):
for the nachos, I was like youknow what?
There are a little fish saucein that queso you know, and so
let's follow that journey.
So you are, you're more of anat-home kid because the parents
are working and then I would youknow, grandma would and aunt
mary would be cooking thesethings and we'd all get together
a little bit early so theywould still be cooking.
So I would have my eye onthings, you know, and there was
(29:41):
certain like production thingsthat the whole they would kind
of incorporate the family into.
You know, there was like kimbapnight or mandu night.
Mandu or the k Korean dumplingsor pot stickers kind of that
requires a lot of tedious, youknow, rolling and folding.
Doug (29:56):
Everybody's going to pinch a dumpling.
Simon (29:57):
Yes, exactly, Yep, Yep.
So you know and those were my alot of my first cooking
experiences.
You know, preparing some ofthis food, that was just very
tedious and grandma would belike, hey, you know, fold these
dumplings.
Doug (30:09):
Oh my gosh, OK, so help.
And grandma would be like, hey,you know, fold these dumplings.
Oh my gosh, oh, okay.
So help me follow this story.
All of this family food ishappening.
You're getting that exposure.
You're doing some cooking foryourself.
You do go off to college inHawaii and what did you study?
Simon (30:21):
Biochemistry.
Okay, yeah, I studiedbiochemistry in Hawaii and, uh,
it took, you know, four years ofdoing that for me to realize
that I want nothing to do withit.
You know, I got into some, somefield work, you know, some lab
work in that, in that field, andI, you know, it was just
absolutely miserable.
It was obviously not what Iwanted to do and I always, you
(30:44):
know, throughout my life, I'dalways worked in restaurants.
You know I washed dishes grownup in a Chinese restaurant.
I worked at McDonald's.
You know I washed dishesgrowing up in a Chinese
restaurant.
I worked at McDonald's, youknow, but I never really thought
about it seriously as a career.
And toward the end of school,what I actually found myself
doing was I lived in this house.
My friend Sam, he had a wealthyfamily who was able to buy him
(31:07):
a home over there, so he movedall of us in.
There was like 16 of us livingin this like real world style
house, you know, and, um, Iwould do a lot of cooking in
that home.
You know, dinner and itcaptured that feeling that I was
after with a family, dinners,yeah, and I would prepare these
meals.
You know everybody kicked moneyat the beginning of the week
and I would do a one takeoutmeal a day and one sit down meal
(31:31):
a day.
And you know, and it just becamelike I was the house chef at
some point and you know, and I,I was, and I really started
experimenting and really tryingto cut my teeth there, you know,
watching internet.
And that was the days of, likeearly YouTube.
And you know I remember thelike just to put it in context
like I had got my firstsmartphone like right around
(31:52):
that time, you know.
So these things were availableand you could have it there
while you were, uh, you know,cooking your dish.
So I, you know, did a lot ofexperimenting and you know I
would go out of my way to go tryto find different, you know
wild ingredients and cook newthings, and it was really just
feeding my interest.
Doug (32:11):
You, you know then this is the spark that starts the
journey to restaurateur.
Simon (32:15):
Yeah, yeah, it was a hobby, you know.
It was something that I justreally enjoyed doing and would
do for in my free time, you know, and um, and so I was like
maybe this is something for me.
I just had, you know, like I,you know, it was like maybe this
is something for me.
So what I did is I took myresume all around to all of what
(32:36):
I thought or what the internetsaid were the very best
restaurants in Hawaii, and thefirst one that I showed up at
was a place and it was the topof my list.
It was the very best restaurantin Hawaii at the time.
It was called Chef Mavro ChefMavro.
Chloe (32:51):
Okay.
Simon (32:52):
M-A-V-R-O and a chef was actually a Korean guy.
His name is Chef Kevin Chongand he was like, look, you know,
gives me a look over, kind ofstern look.
And he's like, yeah, we'll takeyou on as a old school commis.
I was like sure, whatever thatmeans.
What that meant is I was goingto work 60 hours a week unpaid.
(33:19):
So I was just, you know, veryeager and they invited me in and
from the moment I stepped footin there I knew I was in the
right place.
Oh yeah, and it was a smallgroup and they ran just such a
tight knit, awesome kitchen, youknow, family meal every day,
like it.
It was just, it was a realfamily over there and they, they
(33:41):
worked me super hard, theykicked my butt, you know, and
there was a lot of it, but itwas what I needed at the time.
I needed that type of just likehands-on.
Just.
I needed that type of just likehands-on, just like
militaristic you know this ishow our kitchen is run.
Doug (33:55):
You are going to learn that.
Yeah, you're going to learn allthese things here too.
Simon (33:58):
Yeah, I mean I really learned.
I remember, like I remember thefirst day I got there I was
trying to tie my apron behind myback and she shakes his head at
me as I literally had to showme how to put on the apron.
You know, I mean I learned somuch there.
You know more than I could everimagine.
To be honest, like just tocontinue the story, all of the
(34:19):
chefs there were graduates ofCIA Culinary.
Institute of America in HighPark, New York.
So they were like look well, ifyou want to do this thing right,
you're going to go there, youshould do that.
And then again, I was a littleapprehensive.
I was like I don't know moreschooling, whatever, and they're
like you know what, just try itout, go out there for a couple
of years and you know, chefKevin wrote this letter of
(34:40):
recommendation from other chefsand I was able to get like they
were able to give mescholarships and yeah, yeah, I'm
going to go to try anassociate's degree in culinary
arts now, and they were justlike what.
Doug (34:59):
Um, so you go to CIA.
Yes, yes so.
Simon (35:02):
I spend, uh, I spend a little less than a year at Mavro
, um, you know, just really cutmy teeth.
Eventually they hired me on andoffered me a little bit of
money and then, uh, yeah, ciaand Hyde park, new York.
I don't necessarily know if Iwould do the same as my chefs
did and recommend that tosomebody else that was trying to
take my path.
(35:22):
Um, I will say it was great forum, networking and meeting
other people, but, um, in termsof cooking, it seemed like a lot
of time, just like, uh, andespecially coming from such like
a high pace environment and alegit, like you know, triple a
five diamond James Beard awardwinning kitchen going there.
Doug (35:44):
It just seemed like a lesson to it seemed like you're
taking a step back in a lesson,right, like slow pace, like some
basics, yeah, yeah.
Simon (35:52):
If you don't know, it's good if you've never worked in
like a professional kitchenbefore and you're, you know.
But a lot of these, you know alot of these kids there they
were like had to learn how towork like physically and I was
just like oh man, You've beenthere already.
Yeah, it was a little bitfrustrating in that regard.
You know I was very seriousabout it.
I am not necessarily proud ofhow I acted there either.
(36:16):
I was, you know, I made a fewfriends, but I, you know, I was
very just like hard nose.
Doug (36:26):
And I was like, because you were so ready for something
else, you were ready for thenext step.
Right, and that's probably why.
Simon (36:32):
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what it was I yeah.
Doug (36:36):
Well, tell me this, then let's kind of move forward.
When do you get back toPittsburgh and start thinking
about opening Soju?
Simon (36:42):
So, yeah, yeah, I spent some time doing some stages,
like you know.
I realized quickly that NewYork city I wasn't going to be
able to hack it in New York cityeither.
That would I mean.
That city is amazing and it's,you know, the most amazing
restaurants probably in theworld there.
But, um, you know, that citywas going to eat me alive if I
(37:03):
stayed there.
So I uh was like you know whatI think, uh, pittsburgh's the
right place for me, yeah, youknow.
So I moved back to Pittsburgh.
Um, you know, just try to getjobs.
I spent some time, um, you know, managing the dingbats.
You know like uh just likenormal kitchen jobs you know, I
worked at 11 for a while.
Okay, um beer hive.
(37:23):
You know my parents helped meout with buying the building.
We were very fortunate to getin that neighborhood before
prices skyrocketed.
Doug (37:39):
Yes, you really got in at the right time.
Yeah, because it's really justexploded.
Simon (37:42):
It's true, and you know I mean I don't shy away from the
word gentrification, and youknow coming in and that, or
revitalization.
Doug (37:50):
Yeah, because what I would say about Garfield too is I
think it's still very mixed inthe best way right.
Simon (37:56):
And that was part of my business plan from the inception
.
Like, if we're going to buythis building here, you know,
and take advantage of the factthat a building is affordable
and we're able to buy a buildingbecause any other you know
we're going to get Regent Squareor wherever you know I wasn't
able to buy a building so comingin there, I was very cognizant
of that and that I haverestraints as far as, like, I
(38:19):
want this to be affordable forevery single person around.
Doug (38:22):
I agree a hundred percent.
I know that you can walk intoyour place and you can have a
nice meal for under a $20 ticket.
Yeah.
Simon (38:29):
Yeah, and a drink, a happy hour drink, that's right,
you know.
Doug (38:32):
Yeah, yeah, so it's still truly a neighborhood spot for
anybody.
Yes, all right, simon, let'sjump forward.
You guys have reopened now.
I know I just saw that you hada pop-up with Pickle Boy.
Yes, and so how about anythingcoming up in the near term or
even throughout the year?
Do you have any events we'regoing to host?
Simon (38:52):
Pickle Boy pretty often over the next.
You know, pickle Boy is MikeLambert.
He is longtime, uh, bartenderat soju.
Yes, he's a bar guy and he wasalways.
He's just really intosandwiches and like normal
sandwiches.
You know nothing, like nothingcrazy.
We like we're always talkingabout how pittsburgh just
(39:13):
doesn't have like a normal, like, like what?
Uh, what we experience in newyork is bodega.
Yeah, you know like we justwanted to have like bodega food,
you know.
And so soups, sandwichespickles, yeah, yeah, and Mike
kills it.
He's been.
He would always bring in thesepickled eggs, these curry
(39:33):
pickled eggs, and we would havethem for family meal and
everybody would be like we needmore of this type of thing you
know.
So he's going to be popping up.
He's going to be popping up,definitely.
I just am was actually talkinga lot over the last couple of
days with Jason.
We've done pop-ups with himbefore he's peed on my shawarma.
Oh yes, and what we'll do is wekind of do a collab, him and I,
(39:56):
where I stack Korean barbecuemeats on his shawarma spits and
we do like Korean shawarma youknow, and yeah, yeah, We'll add
a little bit of like gochujangto the uh, the eggplant, the
roasted eggplant, spread Likebaba baba ganoush, yeah, baba
ganoush.
Doug (40:10):
Yeah, yeah, and we'll just like Korean up baba ganoush
yeah.
Simon (40:13):
Yeah, so it's a, you know , it is a really cool thing.
So we're talking about doingthat.
I don't have too much lined upas far as pop-ups right now, so
if anybody is listening, yeah,yeah, I mean I I always open
them up to.
I've been trying to encouragemy sous chef, alexis, to do more
(40:34):
.
She was doing them for a while.
After, I'd say, six or eightmonths of working at Soju, I
start to.
You know, bring that up topeople.
Like you know, it is an option.
If you have an idea or have aconcept you want to see how
people would take to a certaintype of food or whatever you
cook, let's do it, and you couldhire me for less than I pay you
.
Doug (40:54):
Kind of an amazing opportunity for someone working
with you.
Simon (40:58):
I think so.
Usually I make the offers youknow like uh, even like I'll
just look for people who are,you know, in the you know like
uh maybe they're doing thebrewery thing or something like
that.
Yeah, exactly, exactly, or Ihave friends you know what I
mean Like, gary is another bigone.
I'm sure he'll show up at somepoint again.
We'll do some collabs.
Uh, gary and I.
Gary is GS Sando company.
Doug (41:17):
GS Sando.
That's right, I've seen GSSando around.
He just got a truck, so you'llsee him more at the brewery
scene.
Simon (41:24):
We were just able to get him into a truck.
So that's awesome, that's cool.
Doug (41:28):
And what about the neighborhood itself the first
Fridays?
Has that been going on, or isit that stuff in?
Simon (41:32):
the first Fridays.
No, first Fridays usually stopsduring the winters.
I mean, there's a little bit ofa pickup.
Every now and again somebodywill host.
You know Irma Freeman will bedoing some art or something, but
in the winter time they're notlike they are in the summertime,
right?
Doug (41:45):
So they're starting to happen again.
It's a block party, I mean itis just fantastic.
All right, simon, it has beenso great to talk to you and so,
hopefully, folks are anxious towant to visit Soju.
Maybe go visit a first Friday.
Why don't we give you a momentto plug your social handles or
your website?
Where can they find you?
Simon (42:04):
I mainly for social media .
I do Instagram, um.
We are soju PGH on Instagram atsoju PGH.
Um, and the website.
You're better off, uh, justlinking to the website from the
internet, because I did not payfor a website, for a domain name
.
So it's just like I use Wix, soit's like my name and then like
(42:26):
a bunch of numbers or somethinglike.
Doug (42:28):
I found you.
If you search Google, you'llfind the website.
Yes, if you just Google.
Simon (42:32):
Soju or Soju Pittsburgh, you will find the website.
That's right and uh.
Part of keeping the Soju at theprice point that it is is that
I try to cut extra costs out ina website domain name is one of
them.
Doug (42:48):
Yeah, yeah, you got to be lean.
Where you can I get it Allright.
Simon, I have one more questionfor you before I let you go
today.
Yes, the name of the show isthe Pittsburgh dish.
What's the best dish you'veeaten?
Simon (43:03):
this past week.
The best dish I've eaten thispast week it would have to be
yakitori.
My friend Jeremiah has I'vebeen calling him the yakitori
guy.
Lately he has become quiteobsessed with yakitori.
Quite obsessed with yakitori,and so he bought this grill and
(43:25):
he upkeeps his tare at leastonce a week.
So he'll cook a yakitori atleast once a week.
Doug (43:27):
Is this just a friend's house?
Yes, we're not.
We're not able to go there withyou.
Simon (43:31):
I wish you were, and it may be one day you know, but
yeah, the best meal I had thisweek was definitely a friend who
cooked me yakitori.
Doug (43:40):
So delicious.
So can you just describe, forlisteners that don't know what
you're talking about, what weresome of the things that were on
the grill?
Simon (43:48):
So yakitori, if you're looking for spots to enjoy
yakitori, I believe Tempanyaki,kyoto has yakitori and also
Umami has yakitori.
And these are skewers, usuallymeat, usually chicken, cooked on
a charcoal grill Charcoal grillyeah, so you get that flavor,
(44:08):
yes, and it's like a specialgrill where the skewer fits so
you could rotate it in almostlike rotisserie, these tiny
little skewers, and yeah, yeah,it is wonderful.
Doug (44:19):
Sounds delicious.
Yeah, it really is, SimonChough.
Thank you so much for being onthe Pittsburgh Dish.
Oh, thank you, Doug, it wasgreat.
Up next, as we get into thewarmer months of grilling and
barbecuing, I had anoff-the-cuff question to
challenge our resident wineexpert, Catherine Montest.
Have we talked about barbecueand wine before?
Catherine (44:44):
No, I think we've talked about tailgating and yeah
, no, not barbecue.
Doug (44:47):
If you were just grabbing a bottle and going to somebody
that was actually having a porkbarbecue, what's the bottle you
would grab?
Oh wow.
Catherine (44:54):
Pork barbecue.
I might go for a Grenache,because barbecues you're doing
those outside and a grenache isgoing to have enough acidity to
cut through some of thefattiness in the pork and it's
going to have some nice brightfruit flavors that will
compliment some of the thingsgoing on in that barbecue sauce.
Doug (45:13):
Yes.
Catherine (45:14):
So I would think a grenache would be a really good
choice for that.
Doug (45:16):
Oh, I love this.
As we get through to warmermonths, I swear every day is
cold and then hot and then sunny, but cold.
I'm looking forward to barbecue.
Barbecue is going to be a lotof fun this year.
Thanks so much, catherine.
Catherine (45:29):
My pleasure Doug Perfect.
Doug (45:30):
You can follow Catherine on Instagram at your fairy wine
mother.
That's, you are fairy winemother.
Just a few blocks down the roadfrom Soju is Third Space.
We get a day off.
Recipe from owner and bakerChloe Newman.
Hey everybody, we're joinedtoday with Chloe Newman of Third
Space Bakery.
(45:51):
Chloe, when we've talked before, you are baking a ton of great
bread and other pastries anddelectables at Third Space.
I always wonder when someone isnot in their food business and
maybe they have a day off, whatare you making for yourself at
home?
Do you have a recipe for us?
Chloe (46:10):
A lot of the cooking that I do at home is not
recipe-based.
It's often you know what's inthe fridge, what can I throw
together.
Maybe it's something left overfrom the bakery that I was lucky
enough to snag.
But you know, when I do havebread in the house, which is
almost every day now, one of myeasy weeknight meals is making a
grilled cheese and tomato soup.
(46:31):
And again, you know, not aparticular recipe in mind, but I
do have some helpful hints forfolks, especially if you're
using third space bread.
I've tried making grilledcheese with pretty much all of
our breads.
I do think the house loaf isyour, you know your classic
choice there Nice and crusty,soft on the inside.
Doug (46:52):
Great crumb, as we've talked about before, exactly.
Chloe (46:55):
Yep, yeah, you might get a little bit of those cheese
melting pockets, but it's notlike all over the place.
I do like to use mayonnaise onthe outside.
I know that there's some backand forth on whether to use
mayonnaise or butter.
I think mayonnaise is the wayto go.
Doug (47:08):
Personally, I've done this it browns so nicely and it adds
a little more flavor, a littletang sometimes.
I guess it probably depends onthe mayonnaise you use.
Chloe (47:17):
Yeah.
Yeah, I do like to use at leasttwo kinds of cheese on the
inside.
I think that provides a nicelittle flavor flavor balance.
Doug (47:25):
Do you have some like preference, like what's your
favorites?
Chloe (47:28):
I was doing a Colby Jack and Havarti, yeah, and that was
really.
That was a nice blend, and myother recommendation would be to
really go low and slow whenyou're cooking the grilled
cheese.
You know, just get it reallynice and melty and I do like to,
I mean, I personally like toalmost burn the bread but a
(47:51):
really nice dark brown for thebest flavor.
Doug (47:54):
Yeah, sounds delicious.
Any tricks to the tomato soupthat you pair it with?
Chloe (47:59):
You know, some days I will just go straight Campbell's
.
Doug (48:02):
Why not?
I think it is classic.
Chloe (48:05):
Yeah, but otherwise, uh, using fire roasted tomatoes is
really delicious.
Yeah.
Just for the soup base, um, youknow, a touch of half and half
or cream, um, any kind ofItalian seasonings that you have
in your, in your pantry, um,you know, love throwing some
hidden veggies in there.
If possible.
Saute up some onions, somecarrots even, and blend that in,
(48:26):
just, why not?
Whatever suits you.
Doug (48:30):
I love riffing a recipe like that with whatever's on
hand, and I'm open to a grilledcheese and tomato soup any day.
Chloe Newman, thank you so muchfor being on the Pittsburgh
Dish.
Chloe (48:41):
Thank you for having me.
Doug (48:43):
You can follow Third Space Bakery on Instagram at
thirdspacepgh.
Do you have a recipe?
Share it with us.
Just visit our website atwwwpittsburghdishcom and look
for our share a recipe form.
If you enjoyed the show,consider buying us a coffee for
this episode or supporting theshow monthly.
(49:04):
You can find links to thoseoptions at the bottom of our
show description, and if youwant to follow my own food
adventures, you can find me onsocial media at Doug Cooking.
That's our show for this week.
Thanks again to all of ourguests and contributors and to
Kevin Solecki of CarnegieAccordion Company for providing
the music to our show.
We'll be back again next weekwith another fresh episode.
(49:27):
Stay tuned.
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