May 4, 2025 • 40 mins
(01:02) What transforms our relationship with food? For Shelly Danko+Day, host of "With Bowl and Spoon" podcast, the answer lies in those pivotal moments that shape our "personal food evolution" - the turning points that fundamentally change how we approach eating, cooking, and sharing meals.
(06:52) Shelly's own journey embodies this evolution perfectly. From keeping chickens in Pittsburgh before it was legally sanctioned to working for nearly a decade in urban food policy, she eventually found her calling documenting others' transformative food experiences. "Everybody has a food story," she explains, whether they're award-winning chefs or everyday people who've experienced that perfect bite that changed everything.
(20:15) Our conversation reveals how deeply intertwined food is with our identities and histories. Shelly shares touching memories of her grandmother Morley's simple yet profound influence through home-canned tomatoes, which became the foundation for her ultimate comfort food. Her Polish grandmother Helen's homemade pizza business - started after becoming a widow - demonstrates how food becomes not just sustenance but survival and connection.
We all experience these food evolutions throughout our lives. Whether it's developing a taste for spicy cuisine (as Shelly did through her husband's influence) or rediscovering a childhood recipe, these moments connect us to culture, community, and our own histories in profound ways.
(33:30) Later in the show, Rick Sebak recommends Showcase Barbeque for that perfectly smoked feast, and Pam Luu shares a cheat-code recipe for her mom's Bánh Cuôn, beloved Vietamese rice rolls.
Listen to discover the foods that have shaped your own evolution and the stories behind the dishes that might change how you eat forever.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Doug (00:01):
Welcome to the Pittsburgh Dish.
I'm your host, Doug Heilman.
Have you ever experienced amoment of personal food
evolution, such as a taste or ameal that changed your
perspective?
We talk with local podcasterShelly Danko Day to learn more.
Are you on the hunt forperfectly smoked barbecue?
(00:22):
Rick Sebak recommends afavorite.
And what family recipe woulddraw you home, even if it's over
two hours away by car?
For Pam Luu, it's her mom'sbanh cuon.
We get a cheat code recipe onhow to make this beloved
Vietnamese dish at home.
All that ahead.
(00:42):
Stay tuned.
The Pittsburgh Dish issupported by Chef Alekka LLC.
Take an on-site cooking classwith her at the Mount Oliver
Hilltop Shared Kitchen or yourown home.
Learn more at her website,chefalekkacom.
Now on to the show.
Thank you so much for comingover and for being on the show.
(01:04):
Would you introduce yourself toour listeners and what you have
going on right now in the worldof food?
Shelly (01:12):
Hi, I'm Shelly Danko-Day .
I am the host and producer andeditor of With Bowl and Spoon
podcast.
Doug (01:20):
All the things.
Shelly (01:22):
All the things.
Yeah, wish I could afford tohave somebody else do some of
the stuff, but that's okay.
So my podcast is about people'spersonal food evolution.
So everyone has a past historyof food, whether it's from your
culture or your parents orsomething else, and then we have
little things that influence usthroughout our lives, that
(01:44):
change the way we think aboutfood and the way we changes our
relationship with food, yeah,and so that's what I'm calling
our personal food evolution.
Doug (01:54):
I love that and I also like the angle of where you go.
I appreciate that a lot oftimes you're finding folks that
are maybe at a farmer's marketor they have maybe a little shop
, so they're definitely goingthrough some kind of food
journey or food story.
Where did this idea of thepodcast get started?
(02:14):
I love the theme of the foodevolution, but how did it all
get going or where did this ideasort of spring from?
Shelly (02:22):
Well, I guess it was because I was tired of hearing
myself talk about food policyand laws and restrictions on
urban agriculture and stuffwithin the city, because I
worked for the city ofPittsburgh for almost 10 years.
Doug (02:40):
Did you do some of that stuff there or were you involved
in some of those things?
Yes, did you do some of thatstuff there or were you involved
in some of those things?
Shelly (02:44):
Yes, yes, I ran the Adopt-A-Lot program and I helped
to update the Urban Ag ZoningCode, which included rules about
how you can have chickens andbees and goats and you know
different.
So it was about raising and itwas about food sovereignty.
Yeah, I think it's fascinatingand so we made it so that it was
(03:04):
possible to raise your own foodand so um.
But people would have me comeand talk about that and some of
that was exciting and some ofthat was fun, but most of the
time people wanted to know, like, what are the rules?
And blah, blah, blah and what's?
What's the government doing?
And that's really not thatinteresting, I mean, unless
you're unless you're doing itfor a period of time.
(03:24):
As I was mentioning on mypodcast, I did it for almost 10
years and I saw a lot ofprojects through.
And that's when you realize whywe have the bureaucracy that we
do.
If you're there for any shorterperiod of time, you really
don't understand, like why.
That was the thing that I said.
All the time is like why can'twe?
Why can't we?
Because I didn't know why wehad things set up the way they
(03:44):
were.
Doug (03:49):
And I mean this might not be interesting.
This is what I talked about, Iknow, but what you're saying is
like things take so longsometimes, and we don't know why
.
Why do they take so long to getsomething through?
Shelly (03:56):
And this might be a part of the reason like just me
sharing this information withyou.
I found it fascinating, but itwas also like not as exciting as
other things that I couldpossibly talk about, but when
you get into the minutia ofgovernment work that people
wanted to hear about, like thatgot really boring, and so I was
(04:16):
boring myself talking and Ithought like why won't someone
ask me to speak about moreexciting things?
And then I was like I don'tneed anyone to ask me, I'm going
to, I'm going to do my own,it's perfect.
Yeah.
So I decided to do a podcastand the idea was that everybody
has a food story and because Iwas looking at food policy and I
(04:36):
was looking at ways that wecould improve people's health
and wellbeing and state by thefood choices they make, but not
like going in and saying likethis is what you should do, like
that doesn't, that doesn't goover anywhere and it actually is
detrimental in a lot ofsituations because we don't know
what we don't know.
(04:58):
So you go into a situation youdon't know what people are up
against.
So so I thought if there was away that we could sort of
collect those points ofinfluence that caused people to
change their habits, and thencollect all of those in one
place and sort of create aprogram around that.
And I was like, how do I dothat?
(05:19):
I have to talk to people.
I have to talk to people and Ihave to find out what was their
pivot point, what was their ahamoment, what was the turning
point in their food evolution?
And so that's where the ideafor the podcast was born, and
also because I wanted to talk topeople about food and anytime I
like.
When I first had the idea it wasprobably about 2017, 2018, I
(05:41):
had the idea for a podcast.
And I would say to people I'mgoing to do a podcast about
people's personal food evolution.
And people will be like oh,that's great, let me tell you
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And so we'd have this wholeconversation and I didn't have
it recorded.
I had nothing, and so, and Ididn't even know what sort of
recording device I was going touse, and so I think, like I
(06:04):
ended up using my phone and sortof doing the recordings in
places where I meet people, likecoffee shops or sometimes the
library or whatever, but I'mlike more on the go.
That's how our podcasts arevery different.
Doug (06:19):
Well, this is what I appreciate about yours You're
capturing that human story thatyou want to get the juicy stuff,
the stuff that is going to beinfluencing, and you're doing it
sort of on the street or in themoment.
So I've also heard you recordat the farmer's market.
I heard you, like, walk throughall the stalls with Rick Sebak
talking about these differentfoods and stuff.
So I do love that.
(06:39):
The style is different and it'sit's just very real.
You're just, you're just rightin there with the person.
You're getting a story that isgoing to cause that aha spark in
somebody else.
Yeah, I did have a sidequestion.
Okay, in your whole policything, did you?
You had chickens at some pointyourself, right?
Shelly (06:57):
Oh, I did.
Yeah, in 2007, I worked forGrow Pittsburgh, which was out
of Penn State, the extensionagency.
Rick (07:04):
And they had the little.
Shelly (07:06):
they would send the eggs into classrooms and then they'd
hatch them and then they'd givethem back, and then they'd have
literally a box of chicks, likea hundred peeps, right.
And so one weekend I had towatch them.
It was over Easter weekend andmy nieces and nephews were
around and I got to show themthese peeps and hang out with
these peeps before they tookthem to a farm, and then I ended
(07:27):
up bringing five of them home.
Oh my gosh.
Doug (07:29):
So you had these chickens yourself, raising them before or
during this whole food policyjourney, working for government.
Well, this was 2007.
So it was way before.
Shelly (07:39):
And that was a yeah, that was a thing.
That was before there was anylegislation.
Because I worked for GrowPittsburgh, my boss made me get
in writing from the mayor'soffice that I was allowed to
have chickens.
Okay, and they sent me theordinance for dogs and cats.
Doug (07:57):
So you were a trailblazer in some ways here, I guess I
guess I guess pioneer is what Icall it.
Shelly (08:04):
Yeah, but I was just sort of like figuring it out as
I went.
So it was in the early daysyeah, early days of chicken
ownership and also an influencefor other people, like Jodi
Noble Choder at Choderwood.
She's certifiably a crazychicken lady, I think we can say
, but she does give us eggsstill, which is great.
(08:24):
We haven't had chickens for afew years because we just
decided to take a little breakfrom having chickens, but it's
still.
It's a great idea and they'rereally great to have.
Doug (08:34):
And I mean now with the eggs Right now as we're
recording in 2025.
But I love this story too,because it connects dots for me,
that here you're doing thesesort of, as you say, pioneering
things in food and sovereigntyin your food, and then you have
policymaking which is not ahundred percent your heart song.
Shelly (08:55):
Oh, let me tell you, though, in 2007 and after that,
subsequent, when I became partof the chicken group because
there was an underground chickengroup in the city of Pittsburgh
.
I became part of the chickengroup because there was an
underground chicken group in thecity of Pittsburgh.
I became part of that, and thenthey proposed legislation, I
think in 2010, 2009, 10.
So they were legislatingchickens and, you know, you had
(09:16):
to get a permit and there wasall this stuff.
It was like $350.
And I was like I don't wantanything to do with this,
Nothing.
And in 2010, I went to ChathamUniversity for their food
studies master's program andthey had a policy track there
and I, nope, nope, avoided thatlike the plague, didn't want
(09:36):
anything to do with policybecause it was boring and dull,
and, yeah, avoided that.
And then what do I end up doing?
I end up working for the cityof Pittsburgh Food policy, doing
urban agriculture and foodpolicy.
Yeah, avoided that.
And then what do I end up doing?
I end up working for the cityof Pittsburgh Food policy, doing
urban agriculture, and foodpolicy.
Doug (09:50):
Yeah Well, let's jump back to the podcast now.
So you move forward throughthat policymaking, you figure
out what you love doing and whatyou don't love doing, and now
you're talking to people abouttheir love and their passions.
When you think about your showwith Bowl and Spoon, are there
any stories that are really sortof top of mind?
People you've met that havelike an incredible story that
(10:12):
you're like wow.
Shelly (10:13):
Well, that's really hard to say.
I have 78 episodes out so far.
Oh my gosh, I know, I was justlooking at it the other day
Cause I was like I have I thinklike 65 and I'm like whoa Okay.
Doug (10:27):
And they probably all feel special in their own way.
Shelly (10:29):
Well, they do, and that's the thing, like in 2023,
so season two yeah, season twoSorry so.
Doug (10:39):
I'm just doing the math here.
Are you officially on like yourfourth season?
Yeah, all right.
And let me ask you, as apodcaster, what do you consider?
A season, a year, one year, nota particular amount of episodes
.
Shelly (10:50):
I think everybody has their own sort of feel about
that, and so yeah.
So my group of podcasters.
I just do a year.
Rick (10:57):
I love it.
Shelly (10:58):
And then I can have the year in review in December and
start afresh.
Doug (11:09):
You started this podcast in 2021.
Shelly (11:10):
Yes, all right.
Well, like I was saying inseason two when I was I, I did
26 episodes in like three monthswow, that's a lot I, I, it was
a therapy for me, um, and I wastalking to people and I was just
, it was like it wasn'tnecessarily anyone who had a
business or a particularinterest in food.
I was just like, hey, be on mypodcast, let's talk about food
(11:32):
and everybody has a food story.
So it's really fascinating.
And that was kind of the proofin the pudding.
And then I started being like,oh, that's a person that I want
to know better, that's a personI want to know more information
about.
And so I started being like, oh, that's a person that I want to
know better, that's a person Iwant to know more information
about.
And so I think some of thestandouts are like I interviewed
T Lyle from Frankfurt Farms andjust to hear the history of his
(11:58):
business and of the organicmovement in southwestern
Pennsylvania, organic movementin Southwestern Pennsylvania,
and just you know to have thathistory and be like, wow, we
really owe a debt of gratitudeto T Lyle and his wife and his,
you know, friends and that wholegroup of people Like that was
that was a lot to go through anda lot to sort of dredge the
(12:21):
trail for all of the rest of us.
So thank you.
And also like Mick Luber that Iinterviewed episode one this
year and he was, just, you know,trailblazer.
Doug (12:32):
And remind our listeners who he is.
Shelly (12:34):
Mick Luber is the owner of Bluebird Farms in Ohio and he
has been growing organicsorganically and interested in
organics for interested inorganics since the 60s.
So he also was very pivotal inthe organic movement in Ohio and
bought a farm and yeah, it's areally interesting story.
(12:58):
But then you know, there'sfarmers that I talk to and their
stories are interesting.
How does one get into thefarming business?
How does one commit one's lifeto really kind of secluded life?
Rick (13:12):
Yeah.
Shelly (13:12):
Except for the farmer's market or except for when you go
to sell your product.
It's a beautiful life.
It's a wonderful life, but itis somehow more secluded or
sequestered to their owncommunities.
Yeah.
Doug (13:24):
Yeah, that's my family.
I mean we have a farm up inArmstrong County and I have to
say my family socializes mostwith family, because that's just
how it is.
Shelly (13:33):
Yeah, what does your family grow?
Doug (13:36):
Angus beef certified Angus beef.
Wow yeah, we've had a farm myentire life.
It's been a beef cattle farm,but it originally was a dairy.
My grandfather, Paul, named itMaple Grove Dairy Farm, and he
would actually deliver your milkdoor to door, and so whenever
(13:56):
sort of the generational passingof the torch happened.
Milking in the morning andmilking at night doesn't really
allow you to do much else inlife, and they wanted to do
other things, so they convertedto beef cattle.
Shelly (14:07):
That's a really different sort of mindset,
because with one you're caringfor the animals long-term and
the other you're not.
Doug (14:16):
Yeah, and even dependent on.
Are you keeping them in theherd to grow the herd?
Then you might have a differentfeeling for a certain
percentage of your animalsversus the others, which you
know are the product that aregoing to be harvested at some
point.
Shelly (14:30):
Yeah, so interesting yeah, oh, wow, okay.
Doug (14:36):
So are we having a food evolution right now?
Yeah Well, this is a friendevolution, we're learning about
each other, which is really fun.
I so appreciate what you'redoing too, because I don't think
I have necessarily thought thateveryone goes through these
events in life that changestheir food perspective, but they
really do, and I can thinkabout that even for myself going
(14:56):
into adulthood or cooking morefor myself at home or cooking
for myself the first time I wentto college and meeting other
people and how they cook, andthen just the simple act of
going with a new friend to try anew, different restaurant or
cuisine, that in itself couldjust be the beginning of a
completely new food evolution,right.
Shelly (15:16):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's always fun.
Discovering food together isalways a fun thing to do.
Doug (15:20):
It is.
I did want to ask.
I have noticed on some of yourepisodes you bring in your
husband Brett, so are you guysgoing on food adventures
together?
Shelly (15:28):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
I proposed to him and it was afood moment we were in a grocery
store I think it was probablylike July or August, it was hot
and we were going to buy someice cream and I said should we
get mint chocolate chip orchocolate peanut butter?
And he said, why don't we getboth?
I was like marry me and we kneweach other like five months at
(15:53):
the time.
Doug (15:54):
And how many years ago is that?
Shelly (15:56):
We just celebrated our 30th anniversary.
So, yeah, congratulations, oh,thanks.
And to your point, like he's onmy podcast, he's been like
we've been sort of entwined ineach other's lives, and not in a
negative way, like we do haveour own separate.
We still have separate checkingaccounts.
Doug (16:14):
Well, this is probably why things work.
This is why things work.
Shelly (16:18):
Yeah, but we hang out all the time we like to hang out
, like we hang out every night.
Doug (16:27):
What did you share with me ?
At one point too, was Brettsomebody that introduced you to
sort of a wider cuisine.
Shelly (16:30):
He did.
Yeah, we've had a really goodinfluence on each other.
But, yeah, when we first met, Ididn't like spicy food, and so
it was.
It took a long time to developthe palate because Brett's
English and he grew up eatingspicy food.
Contrary to popular belief,there is a lot of flavor in
(16:52):
English food and there's thespicy influence of the Indian
cuisine and so, yeah, that's howI learned.
How to eat.
Spicy food is by, you know,going to an Indian restaurant
and tasting for the flavors,because I think a lot of what I
had had in the past had beenlike just like hot sauce, which
was hot for hot sake, and thisis like so many other flavors
(17:16):
besides the hot spicy it was.
It just took time and buildingup a tolerance and I was willing
to go through the pain andsuffering of eating all that
spicy food and now I love spicyfood.
Doug (17:29):
I was going to say.
We just had lunch before thisand I saw you putting sriracha
on your dish today.
Shelly (17:34):
It was a little not hot enough.
Doug (17:36):
I'm saying, and there were jalapenos in the sauce too.
Shelly (17:39):
And that usually gives the kick.
But yeah Anyway.
Doug (17:42):
I think one of my favorite things about your podcast is
that you don't necessarily stickjust to the Pittsburgh area and
sometimes you and Brett hop inthe car and go somewhere and you
give us sort of theplay-by-play and especially
include the food adventure partof a trip that you go to Canada
or something like that.
Shelly (18:06):
Yeah, we try to do that.
It's kind of hard to record onthe.
I mean, I guess I've been alittle shy about like pulling
out my phone and starting torecord and then we're kind of,
at first you're talking to thephone and then you forget about
it and then you just have aconversation about it.
So it's tricky sometimes, so Idon't always do it, but when I
do, it's fun and we like to talkabout food and I think we have
interesting conversations and Ithink people would be interested
(18:27):
in hearing it.
So, yeah, that's a fun thing todo.
There's a lot that we havemissed out on presenting, so I
don't know.
Hopefully we'll go back and dosome of that.
Doug (18:37):
Try and capture it or you do sort of a highlight monologue
after the trip is over.
Shelly (18:42):
Missed out on a great opportunity when we went to
Mexico for two weeks.
Oh, I mean, sometimes the phonedoesn't need to come out though
, but I bet there was some greatfood there.
Oh so everything's so fresh.
Doug (18:54):
Yeah, what part of Mexico.
Shelly (18:55):
We went to a little town just outside of Puerto Vallarta
called Yalapa.
Doug (19:02):
Yalapa.
Shelly (19:03):
And you can only get there by water taxi by boat and
it's yeah, it's this littlevillage and it's.
They don't allow land to besold to developers Like it's.
The community has fullsovereignty over their land and
the development and so it's.
They take care of each otherthere and it's just a really
(19:25):
special community.
And so it was, and we mightwant to tell some of those
stories because there was someamazing stuff.
And then we did a taco tour inPuerto Vallarta which was really
really fun yeah.
Doug (19:37):
Yeah, so what people are going to hear on your podcast is
not just local folks or folksaround the region, but sometimes
truly a food adventure, thatthat takes you outside of your
normal neighborhood.
Shelly (19:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you know, sometimes it'snot necessarily well, it all has
some sort of angle on food, butit doesn't necessarily have to
be.
It's whatever has influenced orinspired somebody to change the
way they think about food.
And you know, sometimes that isfood directly and sometimes
it's not.
Hi, this is Shelly Danko Dayhost of With Bowl and Spoon
(20:11):
podcast, and you're listening toThe Pittsburgh Dish.
Doug (20:15):
You have me thinking too, about earlier life.
So you've had these foodevolutions, it sounds like in
adulthood.
But what was food like growingup?
Did you cook from a young age?
Did folks cook for you?
Shelly (20:30):
I guess folks cooked for me.
I don't remember actually.
Well, I guess I do rememberlike making a cake or making
brownies, and I remember mygrandma Morley, my mom's mom
would always grow her owntomatoes and she grew enough
that she could can them.
So she would put up a lot oftomatoes at the end of the year
(20:52):
and she just all she would do isskin the tomatoes, crush them
up, bring them to a boil and putthem in cans, put them in jars.
Rick (20:59):
Yeah.
Shelly (20:59):
And that it was just that simple.
And that's the same way I do ittoday, because then in the
middle of winter, when you wantthat flavor of summer, you just
can pull out a jar of tomatoesand you could it's.
You could do so much with a jarof tomatoes yeah absolutely,
but she used to make me one ofmy.
My favorite things was macaroniand tomatoes.
Oh just elbow macaroni, okay,and a jar of tomatoes.
Doug (21:21):
Her canned tomatoes.
Shelly (21:22):
Yeah, and she.
When I was little I didn't likethe seeds, so that must've been
like two that that I was eatingthat.
So she would do a batch withoutthe seeds just for me, just for
you, I was the first grandkids,so I guess you didn't realize
that kids didn't like thoseseeds, but anyway, I remember I
(21:42):
would put way too much salt andway too much butter.
So it's a four-ingredient mealand it's the best thing.
It's totally my comfort foodstill.
Doug (21:51):
I think I want to try this meal.
So just a curiosity have youever tried to recreate this
childhood dish in adulthood?
Shelly (21:57):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I make it all the time, Do you really?
Oh yeah, I make it all the time.
It's one of my comfort foods.
Doug (22:02):
Absolutely.
Just roll it through with me.
It's elbow macaroni gardencanned tomatoes without the
skins and a little salt andbutter.
Shelly (22:11):
That's it.
Well, little might be a copiousamount.
I mean it's, yeah, you put itinto taste, but yeah, and my
grandma, I think, used to put alittle sugar in her canned
tomatoes.
Doug (22:24):
Just a pinch in there.
Yeah, and I don't do that.
Shelly (22:27):
So, uh, I mean I've I've heard the theories about why
you should, or why people do ordon't, whatever, but it's just
the sweet secrets of grandmasthat they don't really tell you
the why.
And then, you know, tomatoes wasa big thing in in my family
because my other grandma so my,my grandma, morally was english,
maybe french, we're not reallysure.
(22:47):
She was adopted okay, but mygrandma, Danko, was Polish and
her husband was, uh, Slovak, soI had that whole part of my
heritage as well.
But she would always grow a biggarden as well, and when my
grandpa died he was a coal minerand she was a young, relatively
(23:13):
young widow and she had tofigure out how she was going to
pay the bills and so she startedmaking pizza at home Polish
pizza.
Doug (23:23):
Yep, yep.
Shelly (23:25):
And she had the whole setup in her kitchen.
Maybe it was, I want to say, itwas just on the weekends at
first, and so we would go overthere on a Saturday and be put
to work grating cheese and sheused I'm trying to remember the
recipe now.
She would get the dough from abakery already made into dough
okay so she would spread it outon the trays and then she would
like cook the shells but lots ofoil, so it was really crunchy
(23:50):
and, I think, herbs on there andthen the tomatoes.
We'd have to crush up thetomatoes like, yeah, if anybody
had pizza from Helen Danko backin the 70s, so many children's
hands were in that pizza.
Doug (24:05):
Shelly, where did you grow up and where was this pizza
place?
Shelly (24:07):
Oh, this was in a place called Pittston, Pennsylvania,
between Scranton andWilkes-Barre.
Doug (24:12):
Okay, is that where you grew up?
Uh-huh.
Shelly (24:14):
Until I was 10, that's where I grew up.
Doug (24:16):
And this is where the Polish pizza hails from.
Shelly (24:20):
Yeah, Helen Danko's Polish pizza.
Yeah, it was really popular.
I mean, it was out of her house.
She did have a pizza oven, butI don't think she was ever
really permitted by the healthdepartment or whatever.
But it was cooked.
It was cooked really well.
Doug (24:34):
I mean, if we even had those anything hazardous?
Yeah, these cottage industriesthat you know used to just do
their thing.
Shelly (24:40):
Yeah, yeah, that's amazing yep and my grandma
morley that I was talking aboutearlier.
Not only did she like influenceme with the tomatoes and the
gardening and the growing andyou know the she loved her birds
and it was just a really lovelynature kind of space over there
, but she also worked at theTops Bubble Gum Factory.
Doug (24:59):
Oh.
Shelly (25:00):
Back in the 70s and 80s yeah, oh, that's pretty crazy.
So we always got all kinds oflike what were those garbage
pail kids cards and all kinds ofbubble gum and she was allowed
they were allowed to bring somuch home and it smelled so
sugary in there.
It was wild.
That's a great story.
Doug (25:19):
What about today?
We talked earlier that you hadhad chickens at one point.
Do you keep a garden?
Do you do canning?
Shelly (25:31):
Do you do any preserving of that nature?
Oh yeah, I do all kinds offiddly stuff in the kitchen for
sure.
What's the one of the recentones?
We're getting out our seedsthat we had saved from last year
, but I've been doing a lot offermentation stuff.
I did olives.
I heard the olives episode yes,Thank you so much for listening
to my podcast.
Doug (25:46):
It's great, I listened to it.
Yes, you had to brine them fora really long time, and I think
what I heard is you could crushthem right away and get oil, but
you actually have to put themin this very salty brine before
you even, can you know, ingestthem in a good way, cause
they're super bitter, right.
Shelly (26:02):
I would say, you could ingest them if you wanted to.
Yeah, they're not pleasant.
Doug (26:07):
Not pleasurable?
No, and who was your friendthat knew how to do all this?
Shelly (26:11):
Marcel Newman.
She's the assistant director ofthe department of public works
at the city.
We met when I worked for thecity and, yeah, she's awesome.
She is a big foodie friend ofmine, for sure.
Yeah, I love good time.
Doug (26:27):
I love these kinds of food adventures that you just create
for yourself, didn't you guys?
Shelly (26:29):
order the olives from California or something.
Yeah, yeah.
Doug (26:31):
And you just had to do this thing.
Shelly (26:32):
Yeah.
Doug (26:33):
What other things do you have going on, you know, beyond
the cracking of olives right now?
Shelly (26:37):
Yeah, the olives.
That was kind of an experimentbecause I've done fermented
stuff a lot in the past.
One of the things we have inour yard is garlic chives.
Doug (26:47):
Oh yeah.
Shelly (26:48):
If you ever have any garlic chives and they can just
take over.
And so we started for somereason, I don't know where we
got the idea, but we're likelet's just dry it.
And so last year we werecutting a bunch of it because,
you know, trying to trim it backand keep it in control, and we
dried it and then we ground itin a little hand mill grinder
(27:08):
thing.
Doug (27:08):
It's like a powder.
Shelly (27:09):
Yeah, so it's a powder.
So now it's like, you know,garlic powder.
So we have this like garlicchive powder.
We've been using it like allwinter long and it's so good.
We we make croutons the otherday, which is why it came up,
but we put it on on potatoes andall kinds of roasted vegetables
and it's just really, reallygreat.
It's something that like can bean invasive thing in the garden
(27:32):
, but we're like, let's use itand it it takes the place.
Doug (27:43):
Well, use it and it it takes the place.
Well, it doesn't take the placeof garlic, but it can be used
as a flavor.
Uh-huh, shelly, no one else isdoing this.
You have created your owncottage industry.
If you and brett want to gosell garlic chive, powder.
Shelly (27:48):
No, start doing it.
Yeah, that's the thing when you, when you take something that's
a a fun little fun little asidething and then you try to make
a business come on, no better.
Um, let's see what.
What else do we have going on?
I'm mentally looking around mykitchen right now Sourdough I've
got one of those going yeah, no, we cook a lot at home and,
like I was telling you earlier,we will make up like a batch of
(28:10):
macaroni and cheese when I'mdown to just the little ends of
some of the cheeses.
Yes, and people are like, oh mygosh, I need the recipe.
I'm like go find a randomfridge with cheese ends and put
it all together.
Doug (28:23):
Well, this is the must go type of meals and you're
thinking for yourself.
You have sort of a what I liketo call a recipe framework.
We know what mac and cheese is,but we don't know what we have
in the fridge that needs to go.
But you have cheese that needsto go and it probably changes
every time.
Yeah, absolutely.
Shelly (28:38):
One thing I used this time was a smoked paprika, which
just it's good for you and it'sit adds that smoky flavor.
So that was really good.
And then I made a big batch oflike a I can't remember what
culture is, but a carrot saladyou know, with the raisins and
the nuts and then just have thatin there.
So then when you, when you'rehungry, you just go and you get
(28:59):
a little bit of this and alittle bit of that.
So it's really hard for us toget to a point where like, oh,
let's go out to eat, cause we'rejust like, well, we have that
in the fridge.
Doug (29:07):
You're always doing something.
All right, shelly, so I do wantto move us forward.
Okay, we've.
Are there any new things you'reup to or guests you're trying
to get, or any goals for thisyear?
Shelly (29:28):
Well, I am offering sponsorships for my podcast now.
I just decided that I will dothat.
So if anyone's interested insponsoring with Bowl and Spoon,
just give me a call.
Rick (29:39):
There you go yeah.
Shelly (29:40):
Reach out.
I want to get back to more ofI've.
I've taken a turn where I've Istarted interviewing more people
who do food businesses, sofarmers and restaurants and
caterers and that sort of thing,which is really interesting and
(30:00):
I love those folks so much.
But I think the heart of mypodcast was like talking to
every person.
Doug (30:08):
Yeah, yeah.
Shelly (30:11):
And so I want to get back to that and I'm not sure
exactly how to do that, andmaybe going out in public and
just being like gal on thestreet kind of interviews.
Doug (30:23):
That might be a thing that I can do, I think that would be
super fun, Weren't you tellingme you got a great story from a.
Was it a chiropractor orsomeone?
Oh, dermatologist.
Shelly (30:31):
Dermatologist yes, yeah.
Doug (30:32):
I mean, I think, someone that you don't necessarily think
is connected to food but yethas a cool story, and that she
was because the way she wasmaybe even diagnosing some
ailments you know had to do withfood, right.
Yep, I think that could be acool angle as well.
But I love all that.
Keep your on-the-street anglewith whoever, and if you see
Shelly, go talk to her.
Shelly (30:54):
Make sure my phone's turned on though.
Doug (30:55):
Oh, that's right.
All right, Shelly, if people dowant to find and follow you,
why don't we give the socialhandles or the plug?
Shelly (31:14):
Where can people find you and your podcast?
Oh, I'm on Facebook andInstagram at With Bowl and Spoon
, and I do have a website.
It's wwwwithbowlandspooncom.
Yes, now can people contact youon that website?
Honestly, I'm not sure how allof that works, okay.
Doug (31:26):
DM her on Instagram.
I don't know whatever the bestthing is.
Shelly (31:28):
You know what?
It's really funny because I'mso glad that we met, that I have
you as another fellow podcasterto be able to bounce ideas off
of and ask questions of, becauseI was just doing this on my own
and looking for meetups and notfinding any, and I had a friend
who was like yeah, let's dothis, and then they're like, nah
, so it's really good to knowyou and to have a place to
(31:52):
bounce ideas.
Have somebody to bounce ideasoff of.
And yeah, so let's do that more.
We should do some thingstogether.
We should do something together.
I mean, I love that we're both.
There are a lot of podcasts outthere, but there aren't a ton
of podcasts that are doingsomething with food.
So, locally, it was so nice tofind you as well.
Let's do that pop-up toast event.
Doug (32:12):
Okay, let's do it.
Shelly (32:14):
I love that.
Doug (32:17):
Okay, Shelly, I always have one final question for our
guests.
The name of the show is thePittsburgh Dish.
What's the best dish you'veeaten this past week?
Shelly (32:29):
Oh, I know what it was.
So Brett has gotten into alabneh kick.
Labneh which is like a Lebaneseyogurt-y kind of little thicker
than yogurt, thinner than creamcheese.
And so he's been making thesesandwiches with that and pita
bread, so he made some groundbeef with harissa spices.
Doug (32:52):
Oh.
Shelly (32:52):
And that was just in the fridge, and so he'd bring that
out and he'd warm that up alittle bit, put the labneh on
there, some of that, and thenall the cut up vegetables.
Doug (33:01):
Mm.
Shelly (33:02):
Yeah.
Doug (33:02):
Delicious.
Shelly (33:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that's something that we hadat home, which was just really
really good.
Doug (33:09):
That sounds like a best bite this week.
Shelly (33:11):
It was really good.
Doug (33:12):
Shelly Danko Day.
Thank you so much for being onThe Pittsburgh Dish.
Shelly (33:17):
No problem, Doug.
Thanks so much for inviting me.
Doug (33:20):
Up next.
Where does Rick Sebak go whenhe's craving the taste of smoky
barbecue?
It's so good.
You'll see it from the street.
Hey, everybody, we're joinedtoday with Rick Seback of WQED.
Rick, when we were here last,we talked about your career of
documenting great eateries andplaces across town.
We talked about a lot you'vebeen going to recently, but I
(33:42):
just wondered is there any newplace that's caught your eye or
any place that you wanted torecommend that you think
deserves a little love in thecity?
Rick (33:50):
Well, actually, you know, I was going to say maybe in I
don't know how many years ago Idid a show called Meat
Pittsburgh and at that time Ireally learned a lot about
Showcase Barbecue in Homewood,which is right on Frankstown
Road and it's run by a guy namedDrew Allen and they have these
smokers right there on thesidewalk, outside the restaurant
(34:13):
eatery.
It's really all takeout, yes,but they're right on the street.
They're right on the street.
I mean, there's a couple oftables outside, out front, but I
think most people just go inand get it to go and he makes
incredible great ribs, which hecalls bones, and also great
wings, all of them smokedoutside on the sidewalk and uh,
(34:33):
I think, uh, they're calledturkey backs, I think.
So if you, if you don't want tohave pork or chicken, you can
get turkey, uh, and you know hedoes all these things and it's
just, you know, know, awonderful thing.
And I love their sides too.
I always get greens and beansand rice, and so you know, it's
soul food from Homewood and it'sreally good.
(34:53):
And remind us the name againit's called Showcase Barbecue.
All right, Rick thanks so much.
Doug (34:59):
Thank you, be sure to give Showcase Barbecue a visit, and
look for Rick on WQED Pittsburghor at Rick Sebak on Instagram.
What's a favorite family dishthat will always bring you home?
For Pam Lu, it's her mom's bongcuon.
Let's learn a little bit more.
Hey everybody, we're joinedwith Pamela Lu of CKP, or that's
(35:23):
Community Kitchen Pittsburgh.
She does the social media andmore.
And, pam, last time we talked,you started telling me about
your family food, someVietnamese food, and we talked
about pork belly, which soundedso good.
I was wondering if you have anyother family-style recipes that
you could share with us today.
Pam (35:40):
Okay, so I can tell you about this one dish that would
basically lure me home anytime.
My mother would make it, evenif I was mad at her.
She's like I'm making this,like I'll be there in two and a
half hours.
So it's called bahn gun.
It's a Vietnam, basically aVietnamese crepe.
Oh, the batter's a littletricky to work with, so I found
(36:00):
a cheat version of it.
I love cheat so what you need issome rice paper.
Okay, okay, that is going to beyour little crepe part.
So for the inside it'sbasically ground pork with some
yellow onions, some garlicpowder, a little dash of fish
sauce.
So you cook that all up.
Oh, and mushrooms, like thedried mushrooms that you can
(36:24):
find at the Vietnamese store.
There's no real name, itusually just says dried fungus,
fungus, yes, dried fungus.
So make sure you rehydrate that,chop that up, throw that in
with the ground pork.
All right, so you have yourfilling.
And then you take your ricepaper.
You you're gonna have like alittle dish, like a shallow dish
, fill it with some warm waterand you're going to soak that
(36:45):
rice paper.
You just throw in.
I usually throw in six sheetsof the rice paper and you can
let that soak for like fiveminutes.
It's not going to fall apart.
No, it's not going to.
I know that's what you thinkit's going to do, but it's not
going to.
So while you're doing that,grab a big plate that will hold
the rice paper, take a pastrybrush or whatever and kind of
take some oil to cover it, tocoat it, because you don't want
(37:06):
it to stick to that plate,gotcha, and have your other
plate, your plating plate,covered with some oil too.
So you're going to grab yourrice paper out of the little
water thing and then spread iton the plate.
Take your filling, do about atablespoon of that ground meat
filling, ground pork filling,and then you're just going to
roll it.
I usually just take it and haveit kind of like a tiny little
(37:27):
you're doing a taco, but notyeah, but not.
And then you're gonna fold itagain and fold it again and just
transfer it over to the plateand then do they get cooked
again no, no, you just keepdoing that over and over.
So you have as many as you want.
Usually I have a big plate ohmy gosh, yes and then you may
want to just pop it in themicrowave for like 10, 20
seconds, just to kind of almostlike a steam it.
Doug (37:45):
If you've worked on all of those.
Pam (37:47):
Yeah, so that way, it's nice and warm and then, if you
want, I like to have a fishsauce, not like just the regular
bottle fish sauce, but thegarlic fish sauce, the nuoc mam.
Doug (37:55):
Oh yeah.
Pam (37:55):
I always have a jar of that already made.
That's like my dipping sauce,and then you can also have like
your fried shallots to sprinkleon top if you want.
Like they have them in the jarsalready made for you that you
can just go to the store andpick up and buy and just
sprinkle it on top.
But yeah, that's my cheatversion Sometimes you'll yeah,
Sometimes you just find meshoving it into my face hole
(38:18):
Cause it's literally probably no.
No, it is my favoriteVietnamese dish.
It's and it's very hard to find.
I don't think I have found aVietnamese restaurant in
Pittsburgh that makes it,because it is so time consuming
to make, because typically youhave the batter and there's the
steam and all this involved andI've never gotten it right.
So I just do the cheap version.
Doug (38:37):
I did have a question for folks out there that want to try
and make this Do you have afavorite store or market that
you go to to buy some of theseingredients?
Pam (38:46):
It has varied.
We like to go to the StripDistrict and wander around.
I need to check out the new.
Many More, I heard that newlocation is phenomenal Is that?
Doug (38:55):
the one in the North Hills .
Pam (38:56):
No down in the Strip.
Doug (38:58):
Oh, in the Strip, that's right.
Pam (38:59):
Yeah, because I think they just moved down a little ways or
whatever, so I want to check itout.
Sometimes we go to that placeon McKnight Road, I think that's
the one I'm thinking about.
Yes, yeah, and that's huge too.
It's just trying to find thethings that I want, so I haven't
found like my favorite Asianmarket yet.
Doug (39:18):
Okay, but if folks are adventurous, they're going to
find these things.
Oh yeah, definitely.
You just need to search themout.
Pam (39:23):
Definitely.
Definitely Like, it's justfunny with the dried mushrooms.
You just look for dried fungus.
Doug (39:30):
But I mean that's what it is.
I love it.
Pam Luu, thank you so much forbeing on the Pittsburgh Dish.
Pam (39:34):
Thank you.
Doug (39:36):
You can find Pam Luu working the social media events
and more at Community KitchenPittsburgh and they just
announced their newest guestchef event later in May with
Simon Chough from Soju, who youmight remember from episode 55.
Find more information on theirwebsite at ckpghorg.
Do you have a recipe?
(39:57):
Share it with us?
Just visit our website atwwwpittsburghdishcom and look
for our share a recipe form.
If you enjoyed the show,consider buying us a coffee for
this episode or supporting theshow monthly.
You can find links to thoseoptions at the bottom of our
show description and if you wantto follow my own food
(40:17):
adventures, you can find me onsocial media at Doug Cooking.
That's our show for this week.
Thanks again to all of ourguests and contributors and to
Kevin Solecki of CarnegieAccordion Company for providing
the music to our show.
We'll be back again next weekwith another fresh episode.
Stay tuned.
Welcome to the Pittsburgh Dish.
I'm your host, Doug Heilman.
Have you ever experienced amoment of personal food
evolution, such as a taste or ameal that changed your
perspective?
We talk with local podcasterShelly Danko Day to learn more.
Are you on the hunt forperfectly smoked barbecue?
(00:22):
Rick Sebak recommends afavorite.
And what family recipe woulddraw you home, even if it's over
two hours away by car?
For Pam Luu, it's her mom'sbanh cuon.
We get a cheat code recipe onhow to make this beloved
Vietnamese dish at home.
All that ahead.
(00:42):
Stay tuned.
The Pittsburgh Dish issupported by Chef Alekka LLC.
Take an on-site cooking classwith her at the Mount Oliver
Hilltop Shared Kitchen or yourown home.
Learn more at her website,chefalekkacom.
Now on to the show.
Thank you so much for comingover and for being on the show.
(01:04):
Would you introduce yourself toour listeners and what you have
going on right now in the worldof food?
Shelly (01:12):
Hi, I'm Shelly Danko-Day .
I am the host and producer andeditor of With Bowl and Spoon
podcast.
Doug (01:20):
All the things.
Shelly (01:22):
All the things.
Yeah, wish I could afford tohave somebody else do some of
the stuff, but that's okay.
So my podcast is about people'spersonal food evolution.
So everyone has a past historyof food, whether it's from your
culture or your parents orsomething else, and then we have
little things that influence usthroughout our lives, that
(01:44):
change the way we think aboutfood and the way we changes our
relationship with food, yeah,and so that's what I'm calling
our personal food evolution.
Doug (01:54):
I love that and I also like the angle of where you go.
I appreciate that a lot oftimes you're finding folks that
are maybe at a farmer's marketor they have maybe a little shop
, so they're definitely goingthrough some kind of food
journey or food story.
Where did this idea of thepodcast get started?
(02:14):
I love the theme of the foodevolution, but how did it all
get going or where did this ideasort of spring from?
Shelly (02:22):
Well, I guess it was because I was tired of hearing
myself talk about food policyand laws and restrictions on
urban agriculture and stuffwithin the city, because I
worked for the city ofPittsburgh for almost 10 years.
Doug (02:40):
Did you do some of that stuff there or were you involved
in some of those things?
Yes, did you do some of thatstuff there or were you involved
in some of those things?
Shelly (02:44):
Yes, yes, I ran the Adopt-A-Lot program and I helped
to update the Urban Ag ZoningCode, which included rules about
how you can have chickens andbees and goats and you know
different.
So it was about raising and itwas about food sovereignty.
Yeah, I think it's fascinatingand so we made it so that it was
(03:04):
possible to raise your own foodand so um.
But people would have me comeand talk about that and some of
that was exciting and some ofthat was fun, but most of the
time people wanted to know, like, what are the rules?
And blah, blah, blah and what's?
What's the government doing?
And that's really not thatinteresting, I mean, unless
you're unless you're doing itfor a period of time.
(03:24):
As I was mentioning on mypodcast, I did it for almost 10
years and I saw a lot ofprojects through.
And that's when you realize whywe have the bureaucracy that we
do.
If you're there for any shorterperiod of time, you really
don't understand, like why.
That was the thing that I said.
All the time is like why can'twe?
Why can't we?
Because I didn't know why wehad things set up the way they
(03:44):
were.
Doug (03:49):
And I mean this might not be interesting.
This is what I talked about, Iknow, but what you're saying is
like things take so longsometimes, and we don't know why
.
Why do they take so long to getsomething through?
Shelly (03:56):
And this might be a part of the reason like just me
sharing this information withyou.
I found it fascinating, but itwas also like not as exciting as
other things that I couldpossibly talk about, but when
you get into the minutia ofgovernment work that people
wanted to hear about, like thatgot really boring, and so I was
(04:16):
boring myself talking and Ithought like why won't someone
ask me to speak about moreexciting things?
And then I was like I don'tneed anyone to ask me, I'm going
to, I'm going to do my own,it's perfect.
Yeah.
So I decided to do a podcastand the idea was that everybody
has a food story and because Iwas looking at food policy and I
(04:36):
was looking at ways that wecould improve people's health
and wellbeing and state by thefood choices they make, but not
like going in and saying likethis is what you should do, like
that doesn't, that doesn't goover anywhere and it actually is
detrimental in a lot ofsituations because we don't know
what we don't know.
(04:58):
So you go into a situation youdon't know what people are up
against.
So so I thought if there was away that we could sort of
collect those points ofinfluence that caused people to
change their habits, and thencollect all of those in one
place and sort of create aprogram around that.
And I was like, how do I dothat?
(05:19):
I have to talk to people.
I have to talk to people and Ihave to find out what was their
pivot point, what was their ahamoment, what was the turning
point in their food evolution?
And so that's where the ideafor the podcast was born, and
also because I wanted to talk topeople about food and anytime I
like.
When I first had the idea it wasprobably about 2017, 2018, I
(05:41):
had the idea for a podcast.
And I would say to people I'mgoing to do a podcast about
people's personal food evolution.
And people will be like oh,that's great, let me tell you
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And so we'd have this wholeconversation and I didn't have
it recorded.
I had nothing, and so, and Ididn't even know what sort of
recording device I was going touse, and so I think, like I
(06:04):
ended up using my phone and sortof doing the recordings in
places where I meet people, likecoffee shops or sometimes the
library or whatever, but I'mlike more on the go.
That's how our podcasts arevery different.
Doug (06:19):
Well, this is what I appreciate about yours You're
capturing that human story thatyou want to get the juicy stuff,
the stuff that is going to beinfluencing, and you're doing it
sort of on the street or in themoment.
So I've also heard you recordat the farmer's market.
I heard you, like, walk throughall the stalls with Rick Sebak
talking about these differentfoods and stuff.
So I do love that.
(06:39):
The style is different and it'sit's just very real.
You're just, you're just rightin there with the person.
You're getting a story that isgoing to cause that aha spark in
somebody else.
Yeah, I did have a sidequestion.
Okay, in your whole policything, did you?
You had chickens at some pointyourself, right?
Shelly (06:57):
Oh, I did.
Yeah, in 2007, I worked forGrow Pittsburgh, which was out
of Penn State, the extensionagency.
Rick (07:04):
And they had the little.
Shelly (07:06):
they would send the eggs into classrooms and then they'd
hatch them and then they'd givethem back, and then they'd have
literally a box of chicks, likea hundred peeps, right.
And so one weekend I had towatch them.
It was over Easter weekend andmy nieces and nephews were
around and I got to show themthese peeps and hang out with
these peeps before they tookthem to a farm, and then I ended
(07:27):
up bringing five of them home.
Oh my gosh.
Doug (07:29):
So you had these chickens yourself, raising them before or
during this whole food policyjourney, working for government.
Well, this was 2007.
So it was way before.
Shelly (07:39):
And that was a yeah, that was a thing.
That was before there was anylegislation.
Because I worked for GrowPittsburgh, my boss made me get
in writing from the mayor'soffice that I was allowed to
have chickens.
Okay, and they sent me theordinance for dogs and cats.
Doug (07:57):
So you were a trailblazer in some ways here, I guess I
guess I guess pioneer is what Icall it.
Shelly (08:04):
Yeah, but I was just sort of like figuring it out as
I went.
So it was in the early daysyeah, early days of chicken
ownership and also an influencefor other people, like Jodi
Noble Choder at Choderwood.
She's certifiably a crazychicken lady, I think we can say
, but she does give us eggsstill, which is great.
(08:24):
We haven't had chickens for afew years because we just
decided to take a little breakfrom having chickens, but it's
still.
It's a great idea and they'rereally great to have.
Doug (08:34):
And I mean now with the eggs Right now as we're
recording in 2025.
But I love this story too,because it connects dots for me,
that here you're doing thesesort of, as you say, pioneering
things in food and sovereigntyin your food, and then you have
policymaking which is not ahundred percent your heart song.
Shelly (08:55):
Oh, let me tell you, though, in 2007 and after that,
subsequent, when I became partof the chicken group because
there was an underground chickengroup in the city of Pittsburgh
.
I became part of the chickengroup because there was an
underground chicken group in thecity of Pittsburgh.
I became part of that, and thenthey proposed legislation, I
think in 2010, 2009, 10.
So they were legislatingchickens and, you know, you had
(09:16):
to get a permit and there wasall this stuff.
It was like $350.
And I was like I don't wantanything to do with this,
Nothing.
And in 2010, I went to ChathamUniversity for their food
studies master's program andthey had a policy track there
and I, nope, nope, avoided thatlike the plague, didn't want
(09:36):
anything to do with policybecause it was boring and dull,
and, yeah, avoided that.
And then what do I end up doing?
I end up working for the cityof Pittsburgh Food policy, doing
urban agriculture and foodpolicy.
Yeah, avoided that.
And then what do I end up doing?
I end up working for the cityof Pittsburgh Food policy, doing
urban agriculture, and foodpolicy.
Doug (09:50):
Yeah Well, let's jump back to the podcast now.
So you move forward throughthat policymaking, you figure
out what you love doing and whatyou don't love doing, and now
you're talking to people abouttheir love and their passions.
When you think about your showwith Bowl and Spoon, are there
any stories that are really sortof top of mind?
People you've met that havelike an incredible story that
(10:12):
you're like wow.
Shelly (10:13):
Well, that's really hard to say.
I have 78 episodes out so far.
Oh my gosh, I know, I was justlooking at it the other day
Cause I was like I have I thinklike 65 and I'm like whoa Okay.
Doug (10:27):
And they probably all feel special in their own way.
Shelly (10:29):
Well, they do, and that's the thing, like in 2023,
so season two yeah, season twoSorry so.
Doug (10:39):
I'm just doing the math here.
Are you officially on like yourfourth season?
Yeah, all right.
And let me ask you, as apodcaster, what do you consider?
A season, a year, one year, nota particular amount of episodes
.
Shelly (10:50):
I think everybody has their own sort of feel about
that, and so yeah.
So my group of podcasters.
I just do a year.
Rick (10:57):
I love it.
Shelly (10:58):
And then I can have the year in review in December and
start afresh.
Doug (11:09):
You started this podcast in 2021.
Shelly (11:10):
Yes, all right.
Well, like I was saying inseason two when I was I, I did
26 episodes in like three monthswow, that's a lot I, I, it was
a therapy for me, um, and I wastalking to people and I was just
, it was like it wasn'tnecessarily anyone who had a
business or a particularinterest in food.
I was just like, hey, be on mypodcast, let's talk about food
(11:32):
and everybody has a food story.
So it's really fascinating.
And that was kind of the proofin the pudding.
And then I started being like,oh, that's a person that I want
to know better, that's a personI want to know more information
about.
And so I started being like, oh, that's a person that I want to
know better, that's a person Iwant to know more information
about.
And so I think some of thestandouts are like I interviewed
T Lyle from Frankfurt Farms andjust to hear the history of his
(11:58):
business and of the organicmovement in southwestern
Pennsylvania, organic movementin Southwestern Pennsylvania,
and just you know to have thathistory and be like, wow, we
really owe a debt of gratitudeto T Lyle and his wife and his,
you know, friends and that wholegroup of people Like that was
that was a lot to go through anda lot to sort of dredge the
(12:21):
trail for all of the rest of us.
So thank you.
And also like Mick Luber that Iinterviewed episode one this
year and he was, just, you know,trailblazer.
Doug (12:32):
And remind our listeners who he is.
Shelly (12:34):
Mick Luber is the owner of Bluebird Farms in Ohio and he
has been growing organicsorganically and interested in
organics for interested inorganics since the 60s.
So he also was very pivotal inthe organic movement in Ohio and
bought a farm and yeah, it's areally interesting story.
(12:58):
But then you know, there'sfarmers that I talk to and their
stories are interesting.
How does one get into thefarming business?
How does one commit one's lifeto really kind of secluded life?
Rick (13:12):
Yeah.
Shelly (13:12):
Except for the farmer's market or except for when you go
to sell your product.
It's a beautiful life.
It's a wonderful life, but itis somehow more secluded or
sequestered to their owncommunities.
Yeah.
Doug (13:24):
Yeah, that's my family.
I mean we have a farm up inArmstrong County and I have to
say my family socializes mostwith family, because that's just
how it is.
Shelly (13:33):
Yeah, what does your family grow?
Doug (13:36):
Angus beef certified Angus beef.
Wow yeah, we've had a farm myentire life.
It's been a beef cattle farm,but it originally was a dairy.
My grandfather, Paul, named itMaple Grove Dairy Farm, and he
would actually deliver your milkdoor to door, and so whenever
(13:56):
sort of the generational passingof the torch happened.
Milking in the morning andmilking at night doesn't really
allow you to do much else inlife, and they wanted to do
other things, so they convertedto beef cattle.
Shelly (14:07):
That's a really different sort of mindset,
because with one you're caringfor the animals long-term and
the other you're not.
Doug (14:16):
Yeah, and even dependent on.
Are you keeping them in theherd to grow the herd?
Then you might have a differentfeeling for a certain
percentage of your animalsversus the others, which you
know are the product that aregoing to be harvested at some
point.
Shelly (14:30):
Yeah, so interesting yeah, oh, wow, okay.
Doug (14:36):
So are we having a food evolution right now?
Yeah Well, this is a friendevolution, we're learning about
each other, which is really fun.
I so appreciate what you'redoing too, because I don't think
I have necessarily thought thateveryone goes through these
events in life that changestheir food perspective, but they
really do, and I can thinkabout that even for myself going
(14:56):
into adulthood or cooking morefor myself at home or cooking
for myself the first time I wentto college and meeting other
people and how they cook, andthen just the simple act of
going with a new friend to try anew, different restaurant or
cuisine, that in itself couldjust be the beginning of a
completely new food evolution,right.
Shelly (15:16):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's always fun.
Discovering food together isalways a fun thing to do.
Doug (15:20):
It is.
I did want to ask.
I have noticed on some of yourepisodes you bring in your
husband Brett, so are you guysgoing on food adventures
together?
Shelly (15:28):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
I proposed to him and it was afood moment we were in a grocery
store I think it was probablylike July or August, it was hot
and we were going to buy someice cream and I said should we
get mint chocolate chip orchocolate peanut butter?
And he said, why don't we getboth?
I was like marry me and we kneweach other like five months at
(15:53):
the time.
Doug (15:54):
And how many years ago is that?
Shelly (15:56):
We just celebrated our 30th anniversary.
So, yeah, congratulations, oh,thanks.
And to your point, like he's onmy podcast, he's been like
we've been sort of entwined ineach other's lives, and not in a
negative way, like we do haveour own separate.
We still have separate checkingaccounts.
Doug (16:14):
Well, this is probably why things work.
This is why things work.
Shelly (16:18):
Yeah, but we hang out all the time we like to hang out
, like we hang out every night.
Doug (16:27):
What did you share with me ?
At one point too, was Brettsomebody that introduced you to
sort of a wider cuisine.
Shelly (16:30):
He did.
Yeah, we've had a really goodinfluence on each other.
But, yeah, when we first met, Ididn't like spicy food, and so
it was.
It took a long time to developthe palate because Brett's
English and he grew up eatingspicy food.
Contrary to popular belief,there is a lot of flavor in
(16:52):
English food and there's thespicy influence of the Indian
cuisine and so, yeah, that's howI learned.
How to eat.
Spicy food is by, you know,going to an Indian restaurant
and tasting for the flavors,because I think a lot of what I
had had in the past had beenlike just like hot sauce, which
was hot for hot sake, and thisis like so many other flavors
(17:16):
besides the hot spicy it was.
It just took time and buildingup a tolerance and I was willing
to go through the pain andsuffering of eating all that
spicy food and now I love spicyfood.
Doug (17:29):
I was going to say.
We just had lunch before thisand I saw you putting sriracha
on your dish today.
Shelly (17:34):
It was a little not hot enough.
Doug (17:36):
I'm saying, and there were jalapenos in the sauce too.
Shelly (17:39):
And that usually gives the kick.
But yeah Anyway.
Doug (17:42):
I think one of my favorite things about your podcast is
that you don't necessarily stickjust to the Pittsburgh area and
sometimes you and Brett hop inthe car and go somewhere and you
give us sort of theplay-by-play and especially
include the food adventure partof a trip that you go to Canada
or something like that.
Shelly (18:06):
Yeah, we try to do that.
It's kind of hard to record onthe.
I mean, I guess I've been alittle shy about like pulling
out my phone and starting torecord and then we're kind of,
at first you're talking to thephone and then you forget about
it and then you just have aconversation about it.
So it's tricky sometimes, so Idon't always do it, but when I
do, it's fun and we like to talkabout food and I think we have
interesting conversations and Ithink people would be interested
(18:27):
in hearing it.
So, yeah, that's a fun thing todo.
There's a lot that we havemissed out on presenting, so I
don't know.
Hopefully we'll go back and dosome of that.
Doug (18:37):
Try and capture it or you do sort of a highlight monologue
after the trip is over.
Shelly (18:42):
Missed out on a great opportunity when we went to
Mexico for two weeks.
Oh, I mean, sometimes the phonedoesn't need to come out though
, but I bet there was some greatfood there.
Oh so everything's so fresh.
Doug (18:54):
Yeah, what part of Mexico.
Shelly (18:55):
We went to a little town just outside of Puerto Vallarta
called Yalapa.
Doug (19:02):
Yalapa.
Shelly (19:03):
And you can only get there by water taxi by boat and
it's yeah, it's this littlevillage and it's.
They don't allow land to besold to developers Like it's.
The community has fullsovereignty over their land and
the development and so it's.
They take care of each otherthere and it's just a really
(19:25):
special community.
And so it was, and we mightwant to tell some of those
stories because there was someamazing stuff.
And then we did a taco tour inPuerto Vallarta which was really
really fun yeah.
Doug (19:37):
Yeah, so what people are going to hear on your podcast is
not just local folks or folksaround the region, but sometimes
truly a food adventure, thatthat takes you outside of your
normal neighborhood.
Shelly (19:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you know, sometimes it'snot necessarily well, it all has
some sort of angle on food, butit doesn't necessarily have to
be.
It's whatever has influenced orinspired somebody to change the
way they think about food.
And you know, sometimes that isfood directly and sometimes
it's not.
Hi, this is Shelly Danko Dayhost of With Bowl and Spoon
(20:11):
podcast, and you're listening toThe Pittsburgh Dish.
Doug (20:15):
You have me thinking too, about earlier life.
So you've had these foodevolutions, it sounds like in
adulthood.
But what was food like growingup?
Did you cook from a young age?
Did folks cook for you?
Shelly (20:30):
I guess folks cooked for me.
I don't remember actually.
Well, I guess I do rememberlike making a cake or making
brownies, and I remember mygrandma Morley, my mom's mom
would always grow her owntomatoes and she grew enough
that she could can them.
So she would put up a lot oftomatoes at the end of the year
(20:52):
and she just all she would do isskin the tomatoes, crush them
up, bring them to a boil and putthem in cans, put them in jars.
Rick (20:59):
Yeah.
Shelly (20:59):
And that it was just that simple.
And that's the same way I do ittoday, because then in the
middle of winter, when you wantthat flavor of summer, you just
can pull out a jar of tomatoesand you could it's.
You could do so much with a jarof tomatoes yeah absolutely,
but she used to make me one ofmy.
My favorite things was macaroniand tomatoes.
Oh just elbow macaroni, okay,and a jar of tomatoes.
Doug (21:21):
Her canned tomatoes.
Shelly (21:22):
Yeah, and she.
When I was little I didn't likethe seeds, so that must've been
like two that that I was eatingthat.
So she would do a batch withoutthe seeds just for me, just for
you, I was the first grandkids,so I guess you didn't realize
that kids didn't like thoseseeds, but anyway, I remember I
(21:42):
would put way too much salt andway too much butter.
So it's a four-ingredient mealand it's the best thing.
It's totally my comfort foodstill.
Doug (21:51):
I think I want to try this meal.
So just a curiosity have youever tried to recreate this
childhood dish in adulthood?
Shelly (21:57):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I make it all the time, Do you really?
Oh yeah, I make it all the time.
It's one of my comfort foods.
Doug (22:02):
Absolutely.
Just roll it through with me.
It's elbow macaroni gardencanned tomatoes without the
skins and a little salt andbutter.
Shelly (22:11):
That's it.
Well, little might be a copiousamount.
I mean it's, yeah, you put itinto taste, but yeah, and my
grandma, I think, used to put alittle sugar in her canned
tomatoes.
Doug (22:24):
Just a pinch in there.
Yeah, and I don't do that.
Shelly (22:27):
So, uh, I mean I've I've heard the theories about why
you should, or why people do ordon't, whatever, but it's just
the sweet secrets of grandmasthat they don't really tell you
the why.
And then, you know, tomatoes wasa big thing in in my family
because my other grandma so my,my grandma, morally was english,
maybe french, we're not reallysure.
(22:47):
She was adopted okay, but mygrandma, Danko, was Polish and
her husband was, uh, Slovak, soI had that whole part of my
heritage as well.
But she would always grow a biggarden as well, and when my
grandpa died he was a coal minerand she was a young, relatively
(23:13):
young widow and she had tofigure out how she was going to
pay the bills and so she startedmaking pizza at home Polish
pizza.
Doug (23:23):
Yep, yep.
Shelly (23:25):
And she had the whole setup in her kitchen.
Maybe it was, I want to say, itwas just on the weekends at
first, and so we would go overthere on a Saturday and be put
to work grating cheese and sheused I'm trying to remember the
recipe now.
She would get the dough from abakery already made into dough
okay so she would spread it outon the trays and then she would
like cook the shells but lots ofoil, so it was really crunchy
(23:50):
and, I think, herbs on there andthen the tomatoes.
We'd have to crush up thetomatoes like, yeah, if anybody
had pizza from Helen Danko backin the 70s, so many children's
hands were in that pizza.
Doug (24:05):
Shelly, where did you grow up and where was this pizza
place?
Shelly (24:07):
Oh, this was in a place called Pittston, Pennsylvania,
between Scranton andWilkes-Barre.
Doug (24:12):
Okay, is that where you grew up?
Uh-huh.
Shelly (24:14):
Until I was 10, that's where I grew up.
Doug (24:16):
And this is where the Polish pizza hails from.
Shelly (24:20):
Yeah, Helen Danko's Polish pizza.
Yeah, it was really popular.
I mean, it was out of her house.
She did have a pizza oven, butI don't think she was ever
really permitted by the healthdepartment or whatever.
But it was cooked.
It was cooked really well.
Doug (24:34):
I mean, if we even had those anything hazardous?
Yeah, these cottage industriesthat you know used to just do
their thing.
Shelly (24:40):
Yeah, yeah, that's amazing yep and my grandma
morley that I was talking aboutearlier.
Not only did she like influenceme with the tomatoes and the
gardening and the growing andyou know the she loved her birds
and it was just a really lovelynature kind of space over there
, but she also worked at theTops Bubble Gum Factory.
Doug (24:59):
Oh.
Shelly (25:00):
Back in the 70s and 80s yeah, oh, that's pretty crazy.
So we always got all kinds oflike what were those garbage
pail kids cards and all kinds ofbubble gum and she was allowed
they were allowed to bring somuch home and it smelled so
sugary in there.
It was wild.
That's a great story.
Doug (25:19):
What about today?
We talked earlier that you hadhad chickens at one point.
Do you keep a garden?
Do you do canning?
Shelly (25:31):
Do you do any preserving of that nature?
Oh yeah, I do all kinds offiddly stuff in the kitchen for
sure.
What's the one of the recentones?
We're getting out our seedsthat we had saved from last year
, but I've been doing a lot offermentation stuff.
I did olives.
I heard the olives episode yes,Thank you so much for listening
to my podcast.
Doug (25:46):
It's great, I listened to it.
Yes, you had to brine them fora really long time, and I think
what I heard is you could crushthem right away and get oil, but
you actually have to put themin this very salty brine before
you even, can you know, ingestthem in a good way, cause
they're super bitter, right.
Shelly (26:02):
I would say, you could ingest them if you wanted to.
Yeah, they're not pleasant.
Doug (26:07):
Not pleasurable?
No, and who was your friendthat knew how to do all this?
Shelly (26:11):
Marcel Newman.
She's the assistant director ofthe department of public works
at the city.
We met when I worked for thecity and, yeah, she's awesome.
She is a big foodie friend ofmine, for sure.
Yeah, I love good time.
Doug (26:27):
I love these kinds of food adventures that you just create
for yourself, didn't you guys?
Shelly (26:29):
order the olives from California or something.
Yeah, yeah.
Doug (26:31):
And you just had to do this thing.
Shelly (26:32):
Yeah.
Doug (26:33):
What other things do you have going on, you know, beyond
the cracking of olives right now?
Shelly (26:37):
Yeah, the olives.
That was kind of an experimentbecause I've done fermented
stuff a lot in the past.
One of the things we have inour yard is garlic chives.
Doug (26:47):
Oh yeah.
Shelly (26:48):
If you ever have any garlic chives and they can just
take over.
And so we started for somereason, I don't know where we
got the idea, but we're likelet's just dry it.
And so last year we werecutting a bunch of it because,
you know, trying to trim it backand keep it in control, and we
dried it and then we ground itin a little hand mill grinder
(27:08):
thing.
Doug (27:08):
It's like a powder.
Shelly (27:09):
Yeah, so it's a powder.
So now it's like, you know,garlic powder.
So we have this like garlicchive powder.
We've been using it like allwinter long and it's so good.
We we make croutons the otherday, which is why it came up,
but we put it on on potatoes andall kinds of roasted vegetables
and it's just really, reallygreat.
It's something that like can bean invasive thing in the garden
(27:32):
, but we're like, let's use itand it it takes the place.
Doug (27:43):
Well, use it and it it takes the place.
Well, it doesn't take the placeof garlic, but it can be used
as a flavor.
Uh-huh, shelly, no one else isdoing this.
You have created your owncottage industry.
If you and brett want to gosell garlic chive, powder.
Shelly (27:48):
No, start doing it.
Yeah, that's the thing when you, when you take something that's
a a fun little fun little asidething and then you try to make
a business come on, no better.
Um, let's see what.
What else do we have going on?
I'm mentally looking around mykitchen right now Sourdough I've
got one of those going yeah, no, we cook a lot at home and,
like I was telling you earlier,we will make up like a batch of
(28:10):
macaroni and cheese when I'mdown to just the little ends of
some of the cheeses.
Yes, and people are like, oh mygosh, I need the recipe.
I'm like go find a randomfridge with cheese ends and put
it all together.
Doug (28:23):
Well, this is the must go type of meals and you're
thinking for yourself.
You have sort of a what I liketo call a recipe framework.
We know what mac and cheese is,but we don't know what we have
in the fridge that needs to go.
But you have cheese that needsto go and it probably changes
every time.
Yeah, absolutely.
Shelly (28:38):
One thing I used this time was a smoked paprika, which
just it's good for you and it'sit adds that smoky flavor.
So that was really good.
And then I made a big batch oflike a I can't remember what
culture is, but a carrot saladyou know, with the raisins and
the nuts and then just have thatin there.
So then when you, when you'rehungry, you just go and you get
(28:59):
a little bit of this and alittle bit of that.
So it's really hard for us toget to a point where like, oh,
let's go out to eat, cause we'rejust like, well, we have that
in the fridge.
Doug (29:07):
You're always doing something.
All right, shelly, so I do wantto move us forward.
Okay, we've.
Are there any new things you'reup to or guests you're trying
to get, or any goals for thisyear?
Shelly (29:28):
Well, I am offering sponsorships for my podcast now.
I just decided that I will dothat.
So if anyone's interested insponsoring with Bowl and Spoon,
just give me a call.
Rick (29:39):
There you go yeah.
Shelly (29:40):
Reach out.
I want to get back to more ofI've.
I've taken a turn where I've Istarted interviewing more people
who do food businesses, sofarmers and restaurants and
caterers and that sort of thing,which is really interesting and
(30:00):
I love those folks so much.
But I think the heart of mypodcast was like talking to
every person.
Doug (30:08):
Yeah, yeah.
Shelly (30:11):
And so I want to get back to that and I'm not sure
exactly how to do that, andmaybe going out in public and
just being like gal on thestreet kind of interviews.
Doug (30:23):
That might be a thing that I can do, I think that would be
super fun, Weren't you tellingme you got a great story from a.
Was it a chiropractor orsomeone?
Oh, dermatologist.
Shelly (30:31):
Dermatologist yes, yeah.
Doug (30:32):
I mean, I think, someone that you don't necessarily think
is connected to food but yethas a cool story, and that she
was because the way she wasmaybe even diagnosing some
ailments you know had to do withfood, right.
Yep, I think that could be acool angle as well.
But I love all that.
Keep your on-the-street anglewith whoever, and if you see
Shelly, go talk to her.
Shelly (30:54):
Make sure my phone's turned on though.
Doug (30:55):
Oh, that's right.
All right, Shelly, if people dowant to find and follow you,
why don't we give the socialhandles or the plug?
Shelly (31:14):
Where can people find you and your podcast?
Oh, I'm on Facebook andInstagram at With Bowl and Spoon
, and I do have a website.
It's wwwwithbowlandspooncom.
Yes, now can people contact youon that website?
Honestly, I'm not sure how allof that works, okay.
Doug (31:26):
DM her on Instagram.
I don't know whatever the bestthing is.
Shelly (31:28):
You know what?
It's really funny because I'mso glad that we met, that I have
you as another fellow podcasterto be able to bounce ideas off
of and ask questions of, becauseI was just doing this on my own
and looking for meetups and notfinding any, and I had a friend
who was like yeah, let's dothis, and then they're like, nah
, so it's really good to knowyou and to have a place to
(31:52):
bounce ideas.
Have somebody to bounce ideasoff of.
And yeah, so let's do that more.
We should do some thingstogether.
We should do something together.
I mean, I love that we're both.
There are a lot of podcasts outthere, but there aren't a ton
of podcasts that are doingsomething with food.
So, locally, it was so nice tofind you as well.
Let's do that pop-up toast event.
Doug (32:12):
Okay, let's do it.
Shelly (32:14):
I love that.
Doug (32:17):
Okay, Shelly, I always have one final question for our
guests.
The name of the show is thePittsburgh Dish.
What's the best dish you'veeaten this past week?
Shelly (32:29):
Oh, I know what it was.
So Brett has gotten into alabneh kick.
Labneh which is like a Lebaneseyogurt-y kind of little thicker
than yogurt, thinner than creamcheese.
And so he's been making thesesandwiches with that and pita
bread, so he made some groundbeef with harissa spices.
Doug (32:52):
Oh.
Shelly (32:52):
And that was just in the fridge, and so he'd bring that
out and he'd warm that up alittle bit, put the labneh on
there, some of that, and thenall the cut up vegetables.
Doug (33:01):
Mm.
Shelly (33:02):
Yeah.
Doug (33:02):
Delicious.
Shelly (33:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that's something that we hadat home, which was just really
really good.
Doug (33:09):
That sounds like a best bite this week.
Shelly (33:11):
It was really good.
Doug (33:12):
Shelly Danko Day.
Thank you so much for being onThe Pittsburgh Dish.
Shelly (33:17):
No problem, Doug.
Thanks so much for inviting me.
Doug (33:20):
Up next.
Where does Rick Sebak go whenhe's craving the taste of smoky
barbecue?
It's so good.
You'll see it from the street.
Hey, everybody, we're joinedtoday with Rick Seback of WQED.
Rick, when we were here last,we talked about your career of
documenting great eateries andplaces across town.
We talked about a lot you'vebeen going to recently, but I
(33:42):
just wondered is there any newplace that's caught your eye or
any place that you wanted torecommend that you think
deserves a little love in thecity?
Rick (33:50):
Well, actually, you know, I was going to say maybe in I
don't know how many years ago Idid a show called Meat
Pittsburgh and at that time Ireally learned a lot about
Showcase Barbecue in Homewood,which is right on Frankstown
Road and it's run by a guy namedDrew Allen and they have these
smokers right there on thesidewalk, outside the restaurant
(34:13):
eatery.
It's really all takeout, yes,but they're right on the street.
They're right on the street.
I mean, there's a couple oftables outside, out front, but I
think most people just go inand get it to go and he makes
incredible great ribs, which hecalls bones, and also great
wings, all of them smokedoutside on the sidewalk and uh,
(34:33):
I think, uh, they're calledturkey backs, I think.
So if you, if you don't want tohave pork or chicken, you can
get turkey, uh, and you know hedoes all these things and it's
just, you know, know, awonderful thing.
And I love their sides too.
I always get greens and beansand rice, and so you know, it's
soul food from Homewood and it'sreally good.
(34:53):
And remind us the name againit's called Showcase Barbecue.
All right, Rick thanks so much.
Doug (34:59):
Thank you, be sure to give Showcase Barbecue a visit, and
look for Rick on WQED Pittsburghor at Rick Sebak on Instagram.
What's a favorite family dishthat will always bring you home?
For Pam Lu, it's her mom's bongcuon.
Let's learn a little bit more.
Hey everybody, we're joinedwith Pamela Lu of CKP, or that's
(35:23):
Community Kitchen Pittsburgh.
She does the social media andmore.
And, pam, last time we talked,you started telling me about
your family food, someVietnamese food, and we talked
about pork belly, which soundedso good.
I was wondering if you have anyother family-style recipes that
you could share with us today.
Pam (35:40):
Okay, so I can tell you about this one dish that would
basically lure me home anytime.
My mother would make it, evenif I was mad at her.
She's like I'm making this,like I'll be there in two and a
half hours.
So it's called bahn gun.
It's a Vietnam, basically aVietnamese crepe.
Oh, the batter's a littletricky to work with, so I found
(36:00):
a cheat version of it.
I love cheat so what you need issome rice paper.
Okay, okay, that is going to beyour little crepe part.
So for the inside it'sbasically ground pork with some
yellow onions, some garlicpowder, a little dash of fish
sauce.
So you cook that all up.
Oh, and mushrooms, like thedried mushrooms that you can
(36:24):
find at the Vietnamese store.
There's no real name, itusually just says dried fungus,
fungus, yes, dried fungus.
So make sure you rehydrate that,chop that up, throw that in
with the ground pork.
All right, so you have yourfilling.
And then you take your ricepaper.
You you're gonna have like alittle dish, like a shallow dish
, fill it with some warm waterand you're going to soak that
(36:45):
rice paper.
You just throw in.
I usually throw in six sheetsof the rice paper and you can
let that soak for like fiveminutes.
It's not going to fall apart.
No, it's not going to.
I know that's what you thinkit's going to do, but it's not
going to.
So while you're doing that,grab a big plate that will hold
the rice paper, take a pastrybrush or whatever and kind of
take some oil to cover it, tocoat it, because you don't want
(37:06):
it to stick to that plate,gotcha, and have your other
plate, your plating plate,covered with some oil too.
So you're going to grab yourrice paper out of the little
water thing and then spread iton the plate.
Take your filling, do about atablespoon of that ground meat
filling, ground pork filling,and then you're just going to
roll it.
I usually just take it and haveit kind of like a tiny little
(37:27):
you're doing a taco, but notyeah, but not.
And then you're gonna fold itagain and fold it again and just
transfer it over to the plateand then do they get cooked
again no, no, you just keepdoing that over and over.
So you have as many as you want.
Usually I have a big plate ohmy gosh, yes and then you may
want to just pop it in themicrowave for like 10, 20
seconds, just to kind of almostlike a steam it.
Doug (37:45):
If you've worked on all of those.
Pam (37:47):
Yeah, so that way, it's nice and warm and then, if you
want, I like to have a fishsauce, not like just the regular
bottle fish sauce, but thegarlic fish sauce, the nuoc mam.
Doug (37:55):
Oh yeah.
Pam (37:55):
I always have a jar of that already made.
That's like my dipping sauce,and then you can also have like
your fried shallots to sprinkleon top if you want.
Like they have them in the jarsalready made for you that you
can just go to the store andpick up and buy and just
sprinkle it on top.
But yeah, that's my cheatversion Sometimes you'll yeah,
Sometimes you just find meshoving it into my face hole
(38:18):
Cause it's literally probably no.
No, it is my favoriteVietnamese dish.
It's and it's very hard to find.
I don't think I have found aVietnamese restaurant in
Pittsburgh that makes it,because it is so time consuming
to make, because typically youhave the batter and there's the
steam and all this involved andI've never gotten it right.
So I just do the cheap version.
Doug (38:37):
I did have a question for folks out there that want to try
and make this Do you have afavorite store or market that
you go to to buy some of theseingredients?
Pam (38:46):
It has varied.
We like to go to the StripDistrict and wander around.
I need to check out the new.
Many More, I heard that newlocation is phenomenal Is that?
Doug (38:55):
the one in the North Hills .
Pam (38:56):
No down in the Strip.
Doug (38:58):
Oh, in the Strip, that's right.
Pam (38:59):
Yeah, because I think they just moved down a little ways or
whatever, so I want to check itout.
Sometimes we go to that placeon McKnight Road, I think that's
the one I'm thinking about.
Yes, yeah, and that's huge too.
It's just trying to find thethings that I want, so I haven't
found like my favorite Asianmarket yet.
Doug (39:18):
Okay, but if folks are adventurous, they're going to
find these things.
Oh yeah, definitely.
You just need to search themout.
Pam (39:23):
Definitely.
Definitely Like, it's justfunny with the dried mushrooms.
You just look for dried fungus.
Doug (39:30):
But I mean that's what it is.
I love it.
Pam Luu, thank you so much forbeing on the Pittsburgh Dish.
Pam (39:34):
Thank you.
Doug (39:36):
You can find Pam Luu working the social media events
and more at Community KitchenPittsburgh and they just
announced their newest guestchef event later in May with
Simon Chough from Soju, who youmight remember from episode 55.
Find more information on theirwebsite at ckpghorg.
Do you have a recipe?
(39:57):
Share it with us?
Just visit our website atwwwpittsburghdishcom and look
for our share a recipe form.
If you enjoyed the show,consider buying us a coffee for
this episode or supporting theshow monthly.
You can find links to thoseoptions at the bottom of our
show description and if you wantto follow my own food
(40:17):
adventures, you can find me onsocial media at Doug Cooking.
That's our show for this week.
Thanks again to all of ourguests and contributors and to
Kevin Solecki of CarnegieAccordion Company for providing
the music to our show.
We'll be back again next weekwith another fresh episode.
Stay tuned.
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