058 Hal B. Klein, Trusted Guide to Local Eats

Ever dream of eating for a living? In this mouthwatering episode, we feast on conversations with two culinary personalities who stumbled into food careers through unexpected paths.

(00:48) First, we chat with B Dylan Hollis, the vintage recipe TikTok sensation whose theatrical taste tests of bizarre historical dishes like "pork cake" have captivated millions. Dylan shares how boredom and a collection of old cookbooks transformed this jazz pianist into a cookbook author with an obsession for America's forgotten flavors. His new book, "Baking Across America," explores regional specialties from across the nation, including Pittsburgh's beloved strawberry pretzel salad. Don't miss Dylan Hollis's Pittsburgh visit on May 27th at the First Unitarian Church in Shadyside! 

(12:16) Then, Hal B Klein, senior food writer and dining critic for the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, takes us behind the scenes of professional food journalism. From an acting career in early adulthood, Hal pivoted to a gastronomic calling, pursuing food studies at Chatham University, then eventually becoming one of Pittsburgh's most trusted culinary voices. He shares insights on hidden restaurant gems (like an authentic Uzbek kitchen disguised as "Vinny's Pizza"), Pittsburgh's collaborative chef community, and how a once-picky eater transformed into someone who eagerly explores every cuisine. Follow Hal B. Klein's adventures @HalBKlein on Instagram for your guide to Pittsburgh's most exciting eats.

Both Hal and Dylan exemplify how curiosity and openness can transform not just careers but relationships with food itself. Whether you're a dedicated foodie or simply someone who enjoys good eating, this episode offers a delicious exploration of culinary passion, cultural exchange through food, and Pittsburgh's evolving restaurant landscape.

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Episode Transcript

Doug (00:01):
Welcome to the Pittsburgh Dish.
I'm your host, Doug Heilman.
Would dining out four to sixtimes per week as a profession
be your dream job?
We sit down with Hal B Klein,senior food writer and dining
critic for the PittsburghPost-Gazette, to see what it
takes.
Hal has been guiding us to foodthroughout the region in

(00:23):
various publications for over adecade.
But first up, if you enjoy ryewit humor coupled with retro
baking, then you probably knowour first guest, B Dylan Hollis
is a social media sensation andcookbook author.
He's just released a newcollection of recipes and he's
coming to Pittsburgh.

(00:43):
We were able to catch up withDylan and have a quick chat
before his visit.
Dylan, thank you so much fortaking some time and joining us
on The Pittsburgh Dish.
You are a cookbook author and,dare I say, social media
sensation, and you have a secondbook coming out, Baking Across
America, a Vintage Recipe RoadTrip.

(01:05):
And you're coming to Pittsburgh.

Dylan (01:06):
We're so excited to have you, thank you to Pittsburgh for
having me back not only on herebut traveling on Baking Across
America.
Of course we were thereshooting for this second book
and then do a signing.
You know this is going to bethe only state where I'm going
to have two signings, you know,one in Pittsburgh and then
beforehand in Doylestown.
So I love Pennsylvania.

(01:28):
A lot of wacky recipes out ofthere, you know.

Doug (01:31):
We do do that.
Yes, I'd love to catch ourlisteners up in case they are
not familiar with you.
As we said, you are a cookbookauthor and this is your second
book.
But from a social mediastandpoint, if someone's not
familiar with your videos, couldyou just describe for us what
is going on on your videos?

Dylan (01:53):
Well, there's a lot going on.
I like to distill it down andtell people that I've come to
really love going back in timeand exploring old cookbooks.
So it started way back in 2020.
Of course, during the COVIDpandemic, we all started doing

(02:13):
new things.
Some folks learned how to knitand crochet, as I say, but I
learned how to bake, and I didso on camera, because I'd always
collected old things and oldcookbooks were among those
things, and so I was flippingthrough some of my old cookbooks
and I found this recipe, for itwas called a pork cake.
It was frightful.

(02:35):
Yeah, it was basically a fruitcake with a pound of ground pork
in it.
All that to say, I tell thestory far too often, but I came
to bake it on camera.
It was ridiculous.
I say it tasted like a questionand you know that video just
blew up.
Yes, so before long, folks weresending me in old cookbooks and
I was baking through them andfinding the wild, wacky and

(02:56):
wonderful things.
So what I do on camera is justlooking through old cookbooks,
finding some cool, crazy recipesand baking them and taste
testing them.

Doug (03:07):
It's amazing, and everything from the pork pie to
I think I recall water pie,depression peanut butter bread,
that one is pretty good.
That all led you to your firstcookbook in 2023, called Baking
Yesteryear correct.

Dylan (03:21):
Yes, baking Yesteryear, which a lot of people come to
call Baking Yesterday becauseyesteryear is such an old
wordaking.
Yesteryear, which a lot ofpeople come to call baking
yesterday, because yesteryear issuch an old word from
yesteryear.
But it's one of my favoritewords, perfect.

Doug (03:31):
You really have this penchant for the nostalgic, the
retro.
Has that been something allyour life, something that's been
percolating?

Dylan (03:40):
Yeah, I think something was wrong with me when my mom
had me something.
Something was wrong with mewhen my mom had me.
I've just, I'm an old soul,truthfully, and it's it's more
so than other old souls thatI've met.
You know, I've.
My first car was a, the 1963cadillac, I named Earnest and
still driving every day, andthat's on the cover of my book.
And you know, the first gadgetreal, true gadget that I

(04:02):
convinced my parents to get mewas a 1930s vacuum tube radio.
I've just, I'm obsessed with it.
Yeah, insofar as I don't knowmodern things, they come and go
so quickly and I think there's areason that these old things
endure, and that goes forrecipes, as well, I love it.

Doug (04:22):
And you know we should also say this this wasn't
necessarily your chosen path.
You grew up in Bermuda, youwent to University of Wyoming to
study jazz, piano and musicarranging and, as you said, this
pork cake recipe has taken youon a completely new turn in this
world of you know.
Vintage deliciousness, weshould say.

(04:43):
This world of you know vintagedeliciousness.

Dylan (04:44):
We should say, yeah, you never know where life's going to
take you.
I did, you know.
I studied I was going to goback home and be a music teacher
.
I got my bachelor's of musichere in Wyoming, for you know,
and I played that old school,old timey jazz.
That's what I still play today.
But I like time machines, notin a literal sense I don't

(05:05):
reckon we've invented a properone yet but you know, you can
listen to old music and it takesyou back.
You can read old books and ittakes you back.
But I found something veryspecial in recipes insofar as
you can bake them and eat themand experience the same
sensation that our forefathersand mothers experienced, and

(05:28):
that's very unique.
That's very special to be ableto do that.
You know it's the exact same,let's say for a few additional
ingredients in our modernity,but it's, I find I've always
found that really fulfilling andreally interesting.

Doug (05:44):
Yes, yes, I do have to say as a Pittsburgher too.
Getting back to the new bookright now on your social media,
I think it's the pinned photoyou are sitting in front of a
vintage red suitcase and atopthat suitcase is the most
glorious looking strawberryjello pretzel salad, and for so

(06:05):
many folks in Pittsburgh this issuch an iconic and familiar
dish.
When did you happen upon thatrecipe for the first time?

Dylan (06:15):
So you know, when writing Baking Across America we take.
So I go through all of theseold school cookbooks and you
know all the church andcommunity cookbooks are great
because they tell you where theywere published and when.
So I would pile them all up forPennsylvania and pile them all
up for Delaware and then findwhich ones came up the most,

(06:39):
bake them all and then do a lotof recipe testing and magic to
create the best, you know, thebest amalgamation of them all.
So I first became aware ofstrawberry pretzel salad in.
You know, by going throughthese.
Even though they're notspecific to Pittsburgh, they
came up a lot in Pennsylvania asa whole.
Of course you know a largeportion of those were in

(07:01):
Pittsburgh, but I had difficultypinpointing because they go by
so many different names.
You know there's strawberrypretzel salad, there's, like you
say, there's strawberry jellodesserts, some people call them
strawberry pretzel desserts andthere's all varieties,
variations in the name.
But it was cemented when myeditor, Alexander Rigby, told me

(07:26):
about it and said you know,this is the old school dessert
du jour, which doesn't makequite sense, but it's the
dessert, vintage-wise, thatPittsburghers seem to think
about and the recipe wasactually tested and built off of
a recipe from Alexander'smother, my editor's mother.

Doug (07:48):
I love that.
Actually, my mom made this atEaster, so we're still making it
today.

Dylan (07:55):
What do you call it?
Because I've been askingeveryone who I run into and
everyone who lives or is fromPittsburgh and there's all
slight variation.

Doug (08:05):
Yes, I'm sure there is.
I think officially we do callit strawberry jello pretzel
salad because we don't actuallyserve it for dessert.
It's usually kind of like aside dish for any kind of big
family gathering, becausedessert is, for other things,
pie cake.
So you know it's a salad.
It has jello and fruit in it,so I guess it passes here Crazy.

(08:29):
So let's go even beyond thedishes here that Pittsburghers
would love.
The new book really coverstruly America, from beignets to
Toll House cookies.
How would you characterize thisbook in being, you know,
different from your first one?
Is it a larger slice of Americaor are there any significant
differences on the way youapproached it from your first?

Dylan (08:52):
You know, the first was very easy.
It was we captured lightning ina bottle.
Insofar as you know, I bakedthese recipes on my social media
and I would start them the sameway.
You know X and X from 1973,this and that from 1940s, and so
it was a trip through time, youknow, starting in the 19 aughts

(09:15):
right the way up to the 1980s,and you can take different types
of trips.
You can take trips back in timeor you could take trips across
the country or you could do both.
And that's really how Istructured and how we thought of
Baking Across America was thatwhenever I would bake an

(09:36):
interesting recipe that waswell-regarded in a location, the
comments weren't so much ooh,that's interesting or oh, that's
kind of weird.
The comments were patriotic andreally excited that they came
from that city.
They would say, oh, this is thepride of my town.
I remember, you know, everygrandmother in this state would

(09:59):
make this one time or the other,and that was a different type
of comment.
It was like a hero had returnedand folks were just excited
that it was getting broaderappreciation and that really
triggered something in me to say, okay, there's more to a recipe
than just a set of instructionsto make something.

(10:22):
You know there is a tie to aplace and a time, so would it
not be really exciting, then, tofind these things from every
state, because every state isdifferent?
That's the great thing aboutthe United States is it's almost
like you guys have a wholebunch of little countries within
you.
Essentially, and that's whatstarted it, instead of laying

(10:44):
out my cookbooks by the year, Istarted laying them out by the
location, by the place and bythe state, and then, sure enough
, after a lot of arduous testing, we actually went on the road
and we filmed these and we madethem on location, and that was
crazy.
So, yeah, to answer yourquestion, it's a travelogue.

Doug (11:08):
I love that.
I'm so excited to dig in thisjourney of Baking Across America
and we should let our listenersknow you're coming to
Pittsburgh May 27th.
You'll be at the FirstUnitarian Church in Shadyside,
presented by one of our localbookstores, White Whale, so we
can send folks over to theirwebsite for tickets.
Dylan, we're so excited for thenew book and what you have

(11:30):
going on.
We wish you all the bestsuccess with baking across
America.
It's been such a pleasure totalk with you.
Thank you for giving us sometime on The Pittsburgh Dish.

Dylan (11:38):
Thank you for having me, and I'm excited to be back in
Pittsburgh.
Oh, thank you so much.

Doug (11:45):
Dylan's May 27th visit to Pittsburgh at the First
Unitarian Church in Shadyside ispresented by local bookstore
White Whale.
You can get your tickets, whichinclude a signed hardcover copy
of Dylan's new book BakingAcross America, at their website
wwwwhitewhalebookstorecom andjust look for events.

(12:06):
And now, from retro home bakingto modern everyday dining out,
we sit down with Hal B Klein,who might just have the best gig
in the 'burgh.
Well, thank you so much forcoming over and for being on the
show.
Would you introduce yourself toour listeners and what you have

(12:26):
going on in the world of food?

Hal (12:29):
Sure, I am Hal B Klein, and I am the senior food writer and
dining critic at the PittsburghPost-Gazette.

Doug (12:35):
How long have you been at the Post-Gazette?

Hal (12:37):
So I've been at the Post-Gazette.
It'll be three years in June,and prior to that I was at
Pittsburgh Magazine for aroundseven years.

Doug (12:44):
So you've been doing food for quite a while in the
Pittsburgh area.

Hal (12:49):
Yeah, I was looking today.
My first byline was in 2011.
I had a column at PittsburghCity Paper called On the Rocks,
where I wrote about drinkingculture in Pittsburgh.

Doug (12:59):
Yeah, was that the first sort of writing gig that you
were doing?
In terms of food locally?
Yeah, was that the first?

Hal (13:05):
sort of writing gig that you were doing in terms of food,
locally, right, correct, yeah,and then right around the same
time I also was doing storiesfor the Allegheny Front, which
is an incredible environmentalradio show on WESA.
Love them, yeah.
So I was doing stories on them,with food and the environment,
which was a really exciting wayto learn journalism that way.

Doug (13:19):
Yes, Before we dive into food, I do want to say this
world that you're in now wasn'treally where you started.
Right, you were an actor, yeah.

Hal (13:29):
Yeah, I.
You know I am a big believer inalways learning and always
growing, and sometimes lifechanges how you go.
So I spent the earlier part ofmy adulthood working as an actor
.
I lived in New York.
I did a lot of Shakespearethere.
A lot of classical theatermoved out to Los Angeles, was in
a couple of films out there andyou know, while I was in Los

(13:50):
Angeles I started getting moreand more into food, just because
it's an incredible food city,and going to farmer's markets
California, of course.

Doug (13:57):
Yeah.

Hal (13:57):
Yeah, really incredible just to be able to go to, like,
the Hollywood farmer's market ona on a morning.
And as things got a little bit,you know, let's say, difficult
with my acting career in 2008,when, during the great recession
, it really shifted the waythings were going there, I just
started looking for somethingelse in life.
You know, I knew that I wasn'tas satisfied as I was when I was

(14:18):
doing work on stage in New Yorkand, you know, just for fun,
took a food writing class,didn't really think anything was
going to come of it, and thendecided when I wanted to kind of
look and do something different.
You know, I found out aboutthis graduate degree called food
studies, is that?

Doug (14:35):
at Chatham?

Hal (14:36):
Yes, I was part of the first cohort at the food studies
master's degree program atChatham university.
There were only two otherprograms at the time, nyu and
Boston U.
Okay, and you know, those onesdidn't appeal to me for for
various different reasons, and Ithought, you know like, hey,
I'd actually been to Pittsburghonce in my life.
I was in a commercial for arenafootball that shot here in 2001

(14:58):
.
Oh my gosh, arena football.
I remember that.
Yes, and that was, you know,that was my, really my only
experience with Pittsburgh.
But I came out here to tour thecampus and thought, you know,
like, hey, this will be a nicetwo years living in Pittsburgh
before I moved back to, you know, probably, san Francisco, where
my family is, and it'll be 15years in August.
So I think I'm here now, Ithink you're a.

Doug (15:16):
Pittsburgh, yeah, so just to trace your steps where did
you grow up?

Hal (15:23):
So I was born in New York City, born in Queens.
My inherent love of pizza ohyeah, I do believe comes from
that.
Grew up just outside of thecity in a place called New City,
New York.
And then, when I was 14, wemoved to the San Francisco Bay
Area.
My dad got a promotion so weheaded out there, Went to
college in San Diego, lived backin San Francisco, moved back to
New York, went to drama schoolin London, back to New York, Los
Angeles and then Pittsburgh.

(15:45):
And my family's still in the Bayarea.

Doug (15:47):
All right, all of these big cities.
I mean this was your whole lifeand you were drawn to
Pittsburgh because of your newcareer choice.

Hal (15:54):
Your studies at Chatham, yeah, and I fell in love with
the sense of community here.
You know, I think I love bigcities always be part of my
heart.
You know.
Go to New York and I feelfeelings, oh my gosh, yeah.
But I think there's.
There's a sense of community inPittsburgh that is really hard
to find in a lot of other places, and it's something that I

(16:15):
noticed early on and really keptme here.
At a point, you know, a yearafter I finished grad school and
earned my master's degree, Iwas like should I stay here?
Should?

Doug (16:25):
I stay or should I go?

Hal (16:26):
Yeah, and it was like why would I go somewhere else when I
have an opportunity to build acareer here in something that
I'm so interested in?
It was at a really excitingtime in Pittsburgh in the early
mid 2010s, with the cocktailmovement growing, with
restaurants growing, with thingsopening, with farms really
starting to take off.

Doug (16:45):
I agree, I sort of remember in 2008, 2009 was sort
of the first wave of a lot ofgreat new dining, and when I
moved back home in the 90s itwas a big burrito group they
were here already, but that waspretty much it and a lot of old
time restaurants that we hadheard about for decades, and
then we sort of had this bigboom.
I think you arrived at the besttime and then, I think, over

(17:08):
the pandemic, we've had a littleshrink right, a lot of struggle
, and now we're back Over, I'dsay like the last six months or
so, you're really starting tosee a sense of, like, growth and
excitement coming back again.
I feel like everything is back.
I think I said that recently tosomeone else.
Like you know, people are notstaying home anymore in any way.
Like I go to restaurants andthey're full and it feels good.

(17:29):
But we are still living in thistime now where most places are
closed on a Monday, tuesday,maybe even a Wednesday, cause
they figured out that a Thursdaythrough Sunday service is what
works for them and that it givesthem a better work-life kind of
balance too.

Hal (17:48):
Yeah, it's one of the things that really started
happening during the pandemicwas people recognizing that for
themselves and for their staffthat maybe changing some hours
or working at different timeswas going to create a little bit
of a better life balance, whichalso translates to a better
experience for customers a lot,even though it can be
frustrating sometimes when it's,you know, tuesday night and
you're like, oh, I really wantto go to this place.
But you know like, but that'salso a part of the excitement is

(18:12):
you get to look around and findout there there are so many
places that are open on Mondaynights and there are even
Tuesday nights are harder.
We.

Doug (18:19):
I have noticed that.

Hal (18:20):
Right now, but even then it's like you just have to kind
of dig in a little bit.
I've written a couple storiesover the years of 52 places that
are open on Monday nights.
Oh yeah, yeah.
So you just got to open up andtry some new places, which I
think is always a good thing, ofcourse.

Doug (18:33):
Tell us a little bit as a senior food writer, as a dining
critic, a little bit about yourprocess.
How do you decide you're goingto do a piece that has a
particular topic or aneighborhood, and how far do you
have to plan out to do some ofthose features?

Hal (18:52):
So it's a lot of balls in the air all at one time, right?
So there are these kind oftentpole things now, like the
Eat Pittsburgh series that I tryto do three or four of them a
year, and those take a long time, right, because I really want
to understand the neighborhood.
Or four of them a year, andthose take a long time, right,
because I really want tounderstand the neighborhood.
It's a real opportunity tofocus on a specific geography in
Pittsburgh and dive in and getan understanding of what makes

(19:12):
it tick.
I think about the Beechviewstory I did last year and really
understanding what's happenedin that neighborhood with such
an exciting, engaging influx ofimmigrants from Mexico, Central
America, South America and youknow, those pieces also might
take a little bit longer becausethere can be a cultural barrier
, and so there's a building oftrust and understanding of

(19:33):
people wanting to, like, sharetheir food culture with me,
right, which is, I think, themost, one of the most exciting
parts of my job.
Yeah, so I always have one ofthose projects going on.
Right now I'm going to startanother Eat Pittsburgh, probably
Bloomfield, or I think I'mgoing to divide Bloomfield into
two because there's just so muchgoing on there.

Doug (19:49):
right now there's so much going on in Bloomfield.

Hal (19:51):
And that one will be a little different because it's my
neighborhood.
You live there, yeah, so Iunderstand it a little bit
better, but I'm also working ona feature called the
International McKnight Road Trip.
Oh yeah, that makes sense,cause there's just so much going
on.
You know, I think when youdrive or sit in traffic on

(20:11):
McKnight road, I think thethings you see visually are
these like big chain restaurants, and so there's a perception
that, oh well, there's nothingout there.
But then you know, as part oflike the, the, the journalism
that I do for my job, it's justspending time really like
driving up and down, going toall the little plazas, searching
on Google and reallydiscovering that there's oh well
, there's this family runTurkish place that is is so

(20:31):
charming and special.
And then there's a place likeRamen King too, which I become
obsessed with over like the lastyear.
Okay, I don't know that one.
It's incredible.
It's a handful of Chinesehanded noodle place named Ramen
King.
The original one is out inCannonsburg.
The couple that run it grew upin.
They're from China, they livedin Atlanta for, lived in New
York, lived in Atlanta for a bit, and they're making these

(20:53):
incredible hand-pulled noodleslike a la minute, like you order
a bowl of hand-pulled of noodlesoup and Brother Fu is pulling
the noodles, you know, andcooking them right.
That second, and this, likethis beef and chicken broth,
that's just like intoxicatinglydelicious, and so it's.
You know it's finding thesepieces and then it's.

(21:14):
You know, I did a standalonefeature on ramen King cause I
just thought it was sointeresting, but it'll also
anchor this McKnight story inthe same way that, like chain do
, gourmet too is up there.
Yes, yes, and so it's.
It's kind of packaging thatinformation with places might be
a little bit better known whileexploring all these other
places, and hopefully peoplewill take this and use it as a
guide.
You know, I hope people go toall these neighborhoods and I

(21:36):
need through it.

Doug (21:37):
I absolutely think that that's what a lot of
Pittsburghers need to, because Iam guilty as one of those
persons that hasn't crossed overthat hill or that bridge to
visit that one neighborhood.
And then you report on it andtell me five places I should go.
I'm like I need to go there,yeah.

Hal (21:52):
And it's you know it's.
It's one of those things thatit's you know I I feel so
grateful that this is my jobbecause I'm such I'm, I'm
curious, right, and I want toknow all these stories and so I
get to do this for my work, andso it's doing that, while also
keeping tabs of restaurants thatmight be opening soon, people
that might be opening a newlocation unfortunately writing

(22:13):
about places that close,sometimes of starting with a
list of you know.
What do I want to do today?
What am I trying to accomplish?
We have really goodcommunication in our department,
okay, so you know we have aspreadsheet.
So, generally speaking, we know,like you know, three weeks
ahead what I'm going to beworking on and that might change
.
Sometimes, if you know, I getnew information about a place or

(22:35):
I'm just blown away by a dishsomewhere and I recent election,
I was just really thinkingabout how Pittsburgh has really
grown and developed so much fromimmigrants coming here and you
know my first instinct was likeI wanted to have this
opportunity to really writtenabout and highlight some of

(23:01):
those places too.
So a lot of it just sort ofdepends on you know it could be
influenced by something in thenews in a way that doesn't
really seem obvious necessarilybut might for me kind of click
in my brain or whatever, to beable to talk to these people and
get their story.

Doug (23:15):
We talked to Soul Pasta a few months back.
They came over from Kazakhstan,but then they started creating
Italian pasta and I'm like, waita minute, what's going on here?
And they just have anincredible story.

Hal (23:25):
I mean, it's the beauty of American cuisine too, right Is
we have all of these meltingpots coming together in weird
and strange ways.
I mean, when you look at, I'msuper nerdy about history and I
spend more time on my job onnewspaperscom than I think
people might think, digging deepinto things, because I'm

(23:46):
curious about when things getmentioned.
So you know, like pizza, whichis ubiquitously an American food
right now, when it was firstmentioned in newspapers in you
know, here, I think, the firstmention I want to say 1946,
which is a long ago, but notlike that long ago, not that
long ago.
They know not that long ago.
They have to describe whatpizza is.

(24:06):
Right, right, yes, and so nowit's you know, it's just a
continuum of things in the waythat you know.
Maybe in the 1980s someonedescribed what a taco was for
the first time, and now, writingabout Uzbek cuisine, people are
describing what Monty is or Iguess I'm describing what it is
you know in this case.
But it's all a continuum and itall kind of comes together in
this really incredible,delicious way that people get to

(24:35):
contribute to our collectivestory while celebrating their
individual stories, and I justthink that's so interesting.
I love that.

Doug (24:38):
And I also find that when you do talk to people, no matter
where they're coming from andwhat their food is, we are so
much more alike than we aredifferent.
Like, those stories are alwaysabout family and traditions and
passing something down orsharing it, and that, to me, is
why food is such a good vehiclefor uniting folks.

Hal (24:59):
Oh, completely.
I went to an iftar, which isthe meal that's celebrated at
the end of the day every dayduring Ramadan, with the sunsets
, at the Islamic Center ofWestern Pennsylvania up in
Cranberry a couple weeks ago andyou know, before the meal there
was a prayer.
It was really beautiful andduring the prayer there were
just like these kids, just likerunning around and mucking about

(25:20):
and it just reminded me of whenI was a kid.
You know, I grew up Jewish.
I'm not terribly religious, butI really appreciate the culture
.
And when I was a kid, you know,our parents would make us go to
the high Holy days stuff and wewere those kids running and
it's like it's the same you know, there's nothing different
about it at all Like kids aregoing to come together over food

(25:40):
afterwards.
Yeah, that meal, by the way,was incredible.

Doug (25:44):
Amazing, yeah, like.
What were some of the bites?
Like, can you describe?

Hal (25:47):
There was this okra dish that was made, I guess, in an
Egyptian style that the personwho made it managed to like coax
out all of the likeunctuousness of okra but, like
eliminate the like spongyfeeling that you can sometimes
feel when you eat it.
It was, I mean, it was like areally phenomenal dish with just

(26:08):
like this heat in thebackground that, just you know,
caught up with you Eventually itwas gorgeous, yeah, oh, I'm
sure that's a future article,probably.

Doug (26:17):
Yeah, what else is sort of um?
Some of the recent featuresyou've done, like what should we
share with our listeners?
I mean, there's like a lot youknow, it's.

Hal (26:28):
You know, one of the things that happens in the digital
world is we're always out there.

Doug (26:33):
I mean you're cranking it out again and again, yeah, yeah.

Hal (26:36):
And I'm lucky to work for people that do allow time to
actually do a second, third,fourth, fifth edit of a story
sometimes and really get into it.
And you know there are thingsthat are like very fast breaking
.
You know, if a place, a majorplace, closes or something like
that, you know it's like let'sget this up right away.
And then there are featureswhere it's like I want to go
through and like make sure thatthe word choice is interesting

(26:58):
and the cadence is right.
And you know I'm engagingreaders immediately in a way
that's going to pull them in andmake them want to read more.

Doug (27:04):
It's what makes your writing captivating?
You always are like pulling mein in some way.
You're hooking me.
I think they say yeah.
I did have a side question.
You reminded me.
So at the Pittsburghpost-gazette there's yourself.
I've met Gretchen McKay.
I need to have Gretchen on, ofcourse.
How many folks do work in?
I'll just air quotes that food.

Hal (27:25):
So, like you said, we've got three food writers, you know
, Gretchen McKay, Sono Motoyama,who joined us last year, okay,
and then myself, and then, youknow, sometimes people will hop
in we have some good freelancers.

Doug (27:37):
It feels like New York Times food, like I keep going
back to the dumplings, but it'sjust top of mind.
And then you've gone out andyou've tried all these
restaurants, but then I've.
I know that Gretchen is showingyou how to make it.
You know she's bringing it tolife.
If you actually want to tacklethat in the home, is that how

(28:00):
that typically works?
I mean, I don't know if thereis a division of labor yeah, you
know it's, it's, there's.

Hal (28:05):
Definitely we all have our beats, okay.
Um so, restaurants is myprimary beat.
Gretchen, you poor thing homecooking I know I know, it is
like it's one of those thingsthat's really weird to say when,
um, when it's like, oh god,like poor you, but it's like it
is, it is work.

Doug (28:21):
You know, I do take notes, I do you know it's not like a
normal going out.
You have things in your mindyou've got to achieve.

Hal (28:27):
Yeah, I mean, it's fun a lot of the time, like no lie,
but also that you have to wantto engage with restaurants for
five days, six days a week,which for some people is really
exciting.
For some people, I'm sure itwould be a nightmare.
For me it's really exciting.
And you know it was somethinglike the Pittsburgh dumpling
project.
That was a really great way tobring all of these things
together.

(28:47):
Um, it was telling a story thatwas developing as we were
reporting it.
You know, I was out theretalking to people at restaurants
who are making dumplings andthen Gretchen would find someone
from that cuisine or from thatculture and she'd learn how to
make it at home.
Yes, amazing, someone from thatcuisine or from that culture
and she'd learn how to make itat home yes, amazing.
You get the best of all worldsin a project like that and it
was a big, exciting newspaperproject to be able to do that.

(29:11):
Do you have anything like thatin the works now?
Nothing, nothing that ambitious.
Okay, that one was.
That was the two of us, yeah,really driving the project, and
gretchen really amiably, likeplaying along with like my
obsession as I got deeper intoit.
But then we roped in.
You know, we have thisincredible webpage designer,

(29:32):
laura Schneiderman, we have allthese photographers, and so we
were roping all of these peopleinto this project that just you
know, looking back on it, Ithink, I released.
We released stories every otherweek, which was a lot to just
get that going, get the design,even if we worked ahead.
So I think that one was onethat we're like let's do this
and let's let it marinate and dothings.

(29:54):
I'm working on a series rightnow called the Class of 2015,
because all of these restaurantsopened in 2015 that are still
really relevant today.
But that one's a little bit bit, you know, slower pace.
It's not as grandly ambitiousas the dumpling project, but I'm
sure there's going to beanother night at 2am where I
wake up and go oh, whoa, whoa,this is this, is it?

(30:14):
This is it.
This is the idea to startwriting stuff down and go to the
office, get it out of your headand put it on that, having
people help me refine it afterthat.

Doug (30:22):
Okay, oh my gosh.
So you've got a spreadsheet andyou've got these ideas that are
coming out and you're able toflex in the moment if
something's happening.
Where do you find all of theinformation?
I mean, are you diggingyourself to find out who's
opening a new restaurant or anew location?
Are you getting leads from theworld Like how does that work?

(30:43):
How location Are?

Hal (30:44):
you getting leads from the world Like how does that?

Doug (30:45):
work.

Hal (30:45):
How do you know where to go ?
All, I mean all of it, you know.
So I have a good amount ofinstitutional knowledge, because
I've been doing this for awhile now.
So, I have a sense of what'sgoing on in general.
I keep in touch with people allthe time.
I use social media a lot to seethings that are going on and to
find things that I don't knowabout, and then some of it is.
You know, people might give mea tip, they'll give you a tip.

Doug (31:07):
Yeah, you got to go there, hal.

Hal (31:08):
You got to know about it there was even with the Uzbek
thing, which the Uzbekrestaurants, which is something
that I really thought I knewpretty much everything you can
find, to the point where peoplein the Uzbek community were
getting in touch with me whenthey were opening restaurants.
And then I was out at Spiritone night and someone came out
to me and said, have you heardabout Vinny's Pizza?
You know like no.

(31:28):
And they're like it's anotherUzbek restaurant in a pizza shop
and this one is in Brookline.
And I was like wow, I didn'teven know about that one.
It's like undercover, with thatname, who would?

Doug (31:39):
know, yeah, but.

Hal (31:39):
I think, because I was posting about it so much on my
social media that people knewthat I'd, someone knew that I'd
be interested, and then you know, I think the thing that makes
me good at my job is it wasn't.
Oh, I should get there, I'll gothere, I'll do that.
Whatever it was like, I wentthe next day, you know, yeah
let's just do it.
Yeah, it was like we got.
I want to go, I want to knowabout this as soon as I can.

(32:00):
And that one one was amazingtoo, Cause I walked in there and
I was like you know that one ofall the Uzbek restaurants too.
Like it looks like a placecalled Vinny's pizza that's been
there since the seventies.
There's like Steeler's stuff onthe walls.
No, you'd never know that thiswas an.
Uzbek restaurant and I walked upto the counter it's tiny three
table space and I said you know,can I see the Uzbek menu?

(32:21):
And the owner's like, orwhoever was at the counter, was
like, oh no, we don't, we don'thave a menu.
And I was like, oh, do you notserve Uzbek food?
Like, oh no, did I get a falsetip?
He was like oh no, no, we justdon't have a menu.
But let me check and see whatwe have today.
And it was, you know, friend ofmine and this older women came

(32:46):
in and she was like what are you, what are you guys eating?
We're like, oh, we're eatingUzbek food.
And she's like I've been comingto this place forever.
What, what is this?
Like?
I don't even know about it, Ijust come here and get my pizzas
, this.
And it was so cool Cause it waslike someone in the
neighborhood just became aconvert to.
Uzbek food yeah, cause it wasthere and it was you know what a

(33:09):
treat to be able to share thatwith someone.

Doug (33:11):
Oh, I love that story and it's again it's sort of
undercover Vinny's pizza inBrookline.
I love Brookline anyway.
Great neighborhood, greatneighborhood for food, oh my
gosh.

Hal (33:22):
This is Hal B Klein, senior food writer and dining critic
with the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, and you're listening to The
Pittsburgh Dish.

Doug (33:29):
You have me thinking, and I don't want to ask you for
favorites, I think that's bad.
But in the last few months,what are some other standout
places that you're just like?

Hal (33:38):
oh my gosh, and maybe you don't, it's, it's always you
know, and it's it's interestingwith this job because it's a
balance right, it's.
You know?
I'm just thinking about DishOsteria right now and how long
it's been since I've been there.
Yes, because sometimes I getcaught up reporting for other
stuff and I'm just like, oh God,I miss, like it's so good there
.

Doug (33:57):
Yeah.

Hal (33:58):
Places like that.
And yes, and I'm sure I'm goingto run into McKellie there who
owns Dish, and he's going to belike yeah.

Dylan (34:08):
I haven't been in and I'm like no, no.

Hal (34:10):
But then I'll see him, you know, picking up some, some like
peas and asparagus, from one ofthe farmers there, and I'll be
like all right, I'm coming in,you know.

Doug (34:21):
Yes.

Hal (34:21):
Yeah, Chengdu, you know it's become, I'd say, Chengdu
Gourmet and Amazing Dumplingshave become real places of
celebration for me.
They're great places to go withbig groups, I think Chengdu
especially like.
I couldn't imagine going therewith just one other person.
It'd be so awesome.

Doug (34:37):
I'd be like yeah, because you've got to order a bunch, how
are we going to eat all this?
Yeah, the point is you've gotto order a lot of plates to
share.
You have to.

Hal (34:43):
But I think those spaces become something that adds
something that's extra special,and going there and being like
this is a special occasion place, and I also love that because I
think you know we used to thinkthat special occasion places
were these white tableclothplaces, which are great, you
know, like there's somethingreally wonderful about those
places, but also to have a placelike Chengdu Gourmet and
Amazing Dumplings is yourspecial occasion spot is, for me

(35:04):
, it's just fun and festive anddelicious and it sounds perfect.
Yeah, yeah.

Doug (35:09):
Are there any other little gems that, um, that more people
should know about that?
They don't.
There's a little restaurantcalled Fetfisk oh my gosh.
They're getting a lot of loveright now and that rye cavatelli
.

Hal (35:22):
So good and I mean well well-deserved, you know, know,
it's that's.
I like that story because,seeing how they started as this
pop-up, yeah, you know, I thinktheir first, I think the first
time I went to them, was theirsecond pop-up, which was in
pigeon bagels.
Before it was pigeon bagels.
Even then it was like, okay,this is cool.
And then they did something outin penn hills called the burger

(35:43):
queen.
Um, at this like old club that Iwas like this is so like.
It was one of those momentswhere I was like people that
follow their guiding light andjust do stuff and can execute it
.
It's so special.
And then to see it, you know,go over to Black Radish,

(36:03):
eventually, Soju all of theseplaces, and then to open their
own place and to really seesomething that was like, can
they translate, you know?
Can you translate the magic ofdoing something every other week
or once a month into somethingthat you're going to be open
several nights, you know, fournights a week, five nights a
week?
Are you going to be able tolike, capture this and are
people who aren't the peoplethat have already bought in,

(36:24):
going to buy into what you'redoing?
That's right and they've donesuch a good job of doing it.
You know, aptek is the exactsame way.

Doug (36:30):
Absolutely.
I think the other thing tobring up is you just mentioned
with Soju and Black Radish.
So many others in the foodcommunity are supportive of
their friends that are trying tomake their way and develop this
thing and it's not a lonelyjourney but really a community
journey to get that, that newgroup of folks, to where they

(36:51):
ultimately want to be.

Hal (36:52):
Yeah, it's one of the things that makes Pittsburgh a
very special place.
I'm sure this happens in othercities too.
I hope so.
I hope so.
But it's something that really,since I've been in Pittsburgh,
at least you know, I rememberbeen in Pittsburgh, at least I
remember back in the day of BarMarco and the no Menu Mondays
which I got to cook a few ofthose, which was way early on,
before I was doing this as aliving.

(37:13):
It was just fun to be able togo in there and it really set a
great framework for everythingthat's come after it.
And when you think about thepeople that participated in
those no Menu Mondays back then,they're still doing things now.
And you're about the peoplethat participated in those no
Menu Mondays back then, they'restill doing things now.
And you're seeing all of that.
And you know you look at aplace like Legume Butterjoy and

(37:34):
the family tree of that, and youknow, going back to Big Burrito
, you see the family trees fromthere, yes, and you see all of
these things interconnecting.
But then you also will go to abar at night and you'll see
chefs from restaurants or frontof house people from restaurants
hanging out or stopping byother people's restaurants when
they can.
It was a really magic moment.

(37:54):
God.
This was.
This must've been like 2017,2016.
It was right when Pittsburghwas really starting to was
having this moment in thenational spotlight, and so
people were dropping in, and alot of the stories you started
to read back then were peoplejust sort of repeating the same
story with the same places.
And then there was tworeporters from Toronto I forget

(38:15):
the name of the paper that theywere from that dropped in, had
an agenda and then startedtalking to bartenders, which is
what you should always do ingeneral, and especially when
you're traveling.
And at that point there was thisthing called boomerangs that
were going around where abartender would send you to
another bar with, like apre-batch cocktail for those

(38:35):
bartenders you know as like a,as like a say hey, you know and
they got caught in this liketrain of boomerangs where
bartenders were like, oh, you'refrom out of town.
Like go here and bring this andsay that we sent you, and then
the other patrons go here andsay this and it was the most of
the moment, like Pittsburghstory, cause that's what was
really exciting, that was themagic of Pittsburgh.

(38:57):
That was hard to capture fromthe outside back then and it's
something that still is going ontoday in the way that people
are supporting other restaurants.
I just wrote a story aboutDad's Dog and Burger, which just
opened in.

Doug (39:08):
Bloomfield Love, love, love Dad's Dog and Burger.
Yes, Kaitlyn, and Rick is thedad, Rick is the dad.

Hal (39:14):
That's right.
K aitlyn, before she moved herefrom Southern California, was
just looking stuff up inPittsburgh, got in touch with
Sarah who runs Brothmonger, andjust said like hey, I think
you're cool, you know whatever.
And then Sarah one day repliedback and was like I'm eating
wings of Gooskies in 30 minutes.
Um, I verified the story withsarah now, so it's true.
Um, I do do fact, you know factchecking is important.

(39:36):
Yes, and it was caitlin's, youknow, first day in Pittsburgh,
apparently my goodness.
But it was like this instantthing.
And then, you know, she helpedout sarah during like the early
brothmonger build and then wasjust on a walk and saw that you
know the old burger shop thatwas there was for sale and now
is doing this thing and she'sbuying chili from brothmonger to
put on the hot dogs and it'sjust you know, and the

(39:56):
neighborhood is showing up thatfist people were there and um,
if you go to dad's there'snothing I wouldn't get.

Doug (40:02):
It's all perfect in the way.

Hal (40:04):
Like I was just there.

Doug (40:06):
It's a good burger oh my gosh the fries, the dogs, the
burgers, the milkshakes, all ofit, so just go to cats, you got
me, you got me on a whole otherI was just there.

Hal (40:16):
This is my job, I'm just you know so good, I want to
bring people into my excitement.
Oh, my gosh.

Doug (40:22):
You know?
I think that's what works foryou, is you?
You mentioned that when you gotyour tip on the pizza joint,
you went the very next day and Ithink that sense of urgency
inside you, but it's coupledwith excitement, probably why
you're so good at what you do.

Hal (40:36):
Well, thanks, yeah, I think that's the you know, that's
part of it is just theexcitement about it.
And you know again, like, like,I get to do this for my job.
So in a sense, you know, if Ididn't go to that place in a day
or two, I wouldn't be reallydoing my job, that's right.
But also I think it's, you know, like I was like oh cool, like
you know.
I called a friend, like they'resaying like hi, there's a news
back place I hear about andanother pizza place we got to go

(41:00):
.

Doug (41:07):
So I'm going to shift gears just a little bit, because
clearly you have a love for allof these different cuisines,
but I have a suspicion you alsolike to cook a little bit at
home too.
Right, I do.
Yeah, I've seen some mean pizzapictures.
Tell us a little bit about thisjourney, or how did you perfect
all of that, or what else doyou like to?

Hal (41:18):
cook.
I'm far from perfect at mypizza making it looks really
good.
Thank you, you know, again it'sit's living this life that just
really is revolving around food, both in my professional sphere
and in my personal sphere.
I just think it's what a greatluxury and what a treat that we
have, that we get to.
You know we have to eat, yes,so why not do our best to make

(41:39):
it delicious?

Doug (41:40):
Let's do it.

Hal (41:40):
Well as often as we can, right right.
And sometimes that's just makinga really good sandwich at home
or just throwing together a soupat night and just knowing like,
oh, if I just put a littleginger in this, that's going to
be that much better, or whatever.
You know it's like.
Those things are things thatjust sort of come with practice.
I'm sure you know cause youcook all the time, that you just
learn little tricks, and thensome of it is right now, as we

(42:01):
speak, the asparagus in mygarden is like going wild for
the first time.
And it's like all I'm doing withthat is like picking it,
steaming it for 15 seconds,throw it in with some butter,
garlic and lemon and some herbsin my garden, and it's so simple
, but it's so beautiful and sodelicious and it's like, oh my
God, like I just want to do thatall the time.

Doug (42:20):
When did you plant that?

Hal (42:22):
asparagus Seven years asparagus Seven years.
I was going to say it takesabout seven years.
You've got to be real patient.
Gardening is such a lesson inlife because you've got to be
patient with things.
You've got to learn how to dealwith bounty, you've got to
learn how to deal with rabbitseating your lettuce, but it
really is this lesson.
There's a great Doug Oster,great gardening writer in

(42:44):
Pittsburgh who you know is soinspiring in that way, and then
it's like you just learn frompeople like that.
One of my great mentors, SherryFlick, who was the food writing
teacher at Chatham.
She still is an incredibleflash fiction writer, but her
garden is this, like wonderland.
And you know like you spendtime in Sherry Flick's garden

(43:04):
and you're like, wow, this is soinspiring and it makes you just
want to be able to do even ifyou just do like, even if you do
like a little thing Right.
Like you know, maybe you're notgoing to be in the same place
for long enough to plant anasparagus patch, but you can
grow some container tomatoes andsome herbs and that's going to
bring you just an extra bit ofjoy with not that much effort.
It's great, it's.

(43:29):
You know, we're in the doldrumsof winter and then all of a
sudden, it's this gorgeous.

Doug (43:30):
April day and you're like, oh, I'm just going to go and
get my asparagus and tarragonand mint and whatever.
Well, you reminded me and wetalked a little earlier about
your family life but thinkingabout your palate and how you do
food now, what was food lifelike for you growing up?
Did you cook much as ayoungster?

Hal (43:43):
No, I was such a picky eater Really.
Yeah, apologies again to my momand thank you for being patient.
And I think you know, I thinkpart of it was me having, I
guess, like a stronger sense ofrecognition of flavor than I
probably realized, knew what wasgoing on, and part of it was
just growing up in the in theeighties and early nineties and

(44:04):
a time of very industrializedfood.
Yeah, so I remember verydistinctly working at a
Shakespeare festival in SantaCruz and going to a farmer's
market there and eating anin-season strawberry grown for
flavor for the first time.
And it just changed, changed mylife, you know.
It just changed the way Ithought about everything, cause
I was just like, oh my God, likethis, like you eat a grocery

(44:27):
store strawberry and they'relike, they're not good, you know
, having that moment of goinglike Whoa, like this, this
flavor.
I want to to capture this again, cause I did.
I always liked to cook, but itwas like I started cooking
because I was so picky that Ijust wanted to cook things that
I liked, you know.
So I got really good at cookingthings like a baked ziti, yeah,

(44:48):
yeah.
And then moments like that aremoments like eating, like I was
at a food festival and there wasthis oyster stand and the
person I was with was like justso excited it was hog Island
oysters like just north of SanFrancisco which, like their
oysters, are still phenomenal.
And I had this moment where,like when you're a picky eater,
you often decide you're notgoing to like something before

(45:10):
you eat it, right?
So you make the face and youjust go oh, that's gross.
I'm trying, oh that's gross,and it's like you didn't even
try it, right.
But in this specific moment Iwas like, oh my God, I just have
to throw this thing back and mygoal was just like don't vom,
but like don't bomb, yeah.
But I just like threw it backand I was like whoa and like
light bulbs and electricity andeverything.

(45:31):
And then, like that was like amoment where I was like, okay,
well, if I'm gonna eat an oysterand it's amazing and delicious
and minerally, everything elsein the world is gonna taste good
too, probably, you know.
and if I don't like somethingthat's okay, but like I gotta
try this thing in the same waythat I tried this oyster and
that's like how I live my lifenow.
Yes, it was the thing thatreally expanded the appreciation

(45:52):
of food producers as well right, which is what led to going to
school for food studies.
Um, along with you know, likestarting to read these, like
great writers like jonathan gold, who was in los angeles, um,
and robert sitsima, new york,who still is a legendary writer,
who was with Eater now he'swriting a sub stack.
He's at the Village Voice for along time.
Jonathan Gold was the long timehe was the LA Weekly food

(46:15):
writer and then Los AngelesTimes dining critic.
If you can go back and read hiswork, I mean, he is such an
inspiration or was such aninspiration he passed away.
And so reading writers likethat, who have that same mindset
of like curiosity and opennessand like hunger, like all led to
it, you know.
And then moving to Pittsburgh,and you know, watching Rick

(46:36):
Sebeck's work and getting tomeet Chris Fennimore Um, I did
um, back when I was in gradschool.
I helped out on a couple ofChris Fennimore's PBS shows,
making food with him.
So fun, so fun.
And you know, and Chris is sucha Chris is such a generous
wealth of knowledge.
Yes, again, you know, it's notjust, it's not just with you
know, chefs and bartenders inPittsburgh who are generous with

(46:58):
their stuff.
It's other people in allaspects of it.
You know, like being here andhaving someone like Chris be so
generous and saying like youshould meet these people, or
having Rick Sebak.
I remember, like I remember thefirst day Rick Sebak posted
something like oh, I read astory by Hal B Klein and I went
and got it and I was like, oh myGod, like Rick Sebak, like Rick
Sebak read my thing and then hewent and did it.

(47:25):
You know I know the feeling.
You know it.
When Melissa McCart was here atthe Post-Gazette, you know she
was the same way with that andit's great.
And you know it's like you wantto.
Just Gretchen was like that too, or is still like that.
You know, yes, and you justlike.
So now it's like I want to payit forward too in the same way
for you.

Doug (47:42):
Is there any big article or any big things you're working
on that you can share with usright now?

Hal (47:48):
I think the thing that we're doing now that's like
pretty exciting is we've juststarted doing more on-camera
stuff.
So I've done I did one with theUzbek restaurants, I did one
with Ramen King, with the latestEat Pittsburgh, you know, just
telling stories in a differentway, cause I think it's it's a
good way to bring new readers in, it's a good way to like kind
of hone in on a story.
You know, not everyone has timeto read and print two days a

(48:11):
week in the food section, so wehave a lot of stories, so maybe
not everyone has time to readevery single thing that we do.
Hopefully you will, but youknow, doing that working on this
International McKnight RoadTrip series which I'm like so
excited about I'm excited forthat one.

Doug (48:22):
I'm really excited about that one, I'm excited for that
one.

Hal (48:25):
And then paper-wide, the US Open golf tournament is coming
to Oakmont and we're doing ahuge package with that, so
there'll be restaurants and barsinvolved in that one.
I'm not super involved not asinvolved in that project because
there's lots more sports stuff,but it's going to be a really
good guide.
I think it's going to be reallyexciting.
And then yeah, and then yeah,just keep on doing the work.
You know it's like I'm gonnakeep finding new stuff and have

(48:47):
a story about rockaway pizzeriathey're just around the corner
here.

Doug (48:50):
They were in white oak and they're moving to regent square
.

Hal (48:53):
Yes, and I'll probably at some point this year update my
best pizza list.
Um, because it's been a coupleyears since I've updated that
and a lot of cool stuff hashappened.
It's weird that pitts not weird, I guess, but it's exciting
that Pittsburgh has become likea really interesting pizza city.
Oh my gosh.

Doug (49:10):
There's so much going on.
I know that we're taping now inthe end of April and they just
had the big pizza expo in Vegas,so all of our local folks come
back with some kind of awardslike crazy awards that you know.
This is like a worldwide expo.

Hal (49:25):
And it's like building on the camaraderie that we've been
talking about a lot.
So I convinced the paper tosend me there last year.
Oh yeah, which is great, thankyou.
But it was a fun story and evenin my pitch to get sent there I
thought, oh, there's going tobe somewhere like 30, 35 people
from Pittsburgh going andeveryone's like, wow, it's so

(49:46):
many, that's exciting.
And then I went and I keptfinding more and more people
from Pittsburgh and there weremore than 60 people.
That went in 2024.
And I think around the samethis year.

Doug (49:54):
Yes, incredible.

Hal (49:55):
And again, like the camaraderie, it's like you know,
pizza used to be a world wherepeople really did keep their
secrets, that's right, yeah.
And in Pittsburgh there's likea bunch of them on their, on a
text chain, with each othersharing, sharing, cause you know
, again, like they're all indifferent spaces, they're in
different places, they're doingdifferent things in different
styles.

Doug (50:13):
Yeah, the different styles .
I think that's the other thingis we're now used to different
styles as consumers, as eaters,and so I love a Detroit style.
Now, I didn't even know whatthat was 10 years ago, before
Ironborn was in Smallman Galley,so you understand more because
we have such a great pizzaculture in Pittsburgh.
It's incredible.
Yeah, it's really great to see.
All right, well, it sounds likeyou have a lot going on.

(50:35):
I'm excited.
Why don't we take a moment andshare with listeners any of the
social places they should go tofind your work or the work from
the paper?

Hal (50:44):
Yeah, I mean my Instagram is at Hal B Klein
H-A-L-B-K-L-E-I-N.
Pittsburghpostgazettecom.
Slash food.
You'll find all of our storiesover there.
At Pittsburgh PG and atPittsburgh PG food You'll find a
lot of our stuff over there aswell.

Doug (51:01):
Is that on Instagram?
That's on Instagram.
Yeah, pittsburgh PG food that'sthe one, that's all food, but
then a lot of it even goes onthere.
Yeah.

Hal (51:07):
Pittsburgh PG has everything, too, also on
Facebook.
The Instagram is where I'm mostactive.
I'd say, yeah, it's a nicerspace.
Yeah.

Doug (51:16):
All right, Hal.
There is always a finalquestion I like to ask our
guests.
I don't know if this is goingto be an easy or a tough one for
you, considering your line ofwork.
The name of the show is ThePittsburgh Dish.
What's the best dish?

Hal (51:29):
you've had to eat this week .
I was thinking about that onthe bike ride over here and it's
.
You know that's always a hardone, so I'm gonna give a shout
out to, uh, fat butcher, oh yeah, the butcher shop in
lawrenceville.
Um, because I bought a bunch ofmeat from them and cooked it in
a couple of different ways.
You know, I smoked some porkshoulder and like I don't want

(51:49):
to be like, the best thing I atethis week is the food that I
cook.
Cause you know, I did eat somegreat stuff this week.
Um, just want to be sure, I wentthere's um a Syrian restaurant
up on McKnight road that Ithought was fantastic, but you
know, just thought was fantastic, but you know, just again to be
able to support a butcher shoplike this that is sourcing all

(52:10):
of their meat locally fromreally wonderful farmers who are
raising Local purveyors yeah,it's really great.
And so I just I love being ableto go in there and support a
place like that.
Yeah.

Doug (52:20):
Fat butcher shop.
They're down in Lawrenceville,if you go in.
They also, by the way, have areally great smash burger.
They do, they do.
Yeah, if you go in, they alsoby the way, have a really great
smash burger.

Hal (52:28):
They do yeah, they do yeah.
To have a butcher shop likethis that is working locally and
getting in whole animals orlike half animals and doing
these custom cuts is somethingthat's really special.
But the only way to do that andSalam's, the market and the
strip district has figured thisout as well is to be able to
have hot food or prepared foodas well.
Right, so they're makingsandwiches at Fat Butcher.
There you can get ground beef,you can get tallow sausages.

(52:51):
Yes, and so all of that you know.
So if you're someone that'sinterested in cooking, you can
get things.
But if you just want to go eatsomething that's made from these
like really beautiful animals,you can do that as well.
And, like they just think theyreally know what they're doing
there, call ahead if you wantsomething special.
Um, or do what happened theother day, which was I went in
cause I wanted to get a porkshoulder to smoke and Steve the

(53:12):
owner's, like you know, we'regetting in all of our pigs
tomorrow so I can break one downfor you and pre-order and I was
like cool, great, you know,like I don't live that far away,
but I was also like and for mydog and I get a steak for dinner
tonight.
And then I went back the nextday and it was like just walked
in and you know, because I'dordered it in advance, it was
ready for me to go, beautifullycut.

Doug (53:31):
So let me just ask one more question.
So the pork shoulder, yousmoked it.
How did it turn out?

Hal (53:36):
Great yeah.

Doug (53:37):
Yeah, what did you shred it?
Do you put it on sandwiches?

Hal (53:42):
Just eat it.
I made tacos today before Icame here Delicious, yeah, it
was nice.
I love to have people over inthe garden for dinner and stuff
like that.
So we have a long-running joke.
I'm somehow on the poster forDisco Sunday Disco, which, if
you don't know about that, isthis incredible it's at Trace
Brewing Jarrett Tebbets aka DJHoagie Dreams.

(54:05):
We've bonded over our loves ofsandwiches.
Um he started this a couple ofyears ago.
It's the daytime into theevening disco.
It's super fun and, forwhatever reason, it's him, um,
anthony Susan who goes by,pretty Tony, and Michael
Palladini goes by DJ Jenny daddy, on this poster, which makes
sense because they are oftenDJing there, and then me, um,

(54:27):
cause I guess I just happened tobe there in that moment where
they took that photo and it wasa nice photo.
So we, we, we've dubbed me a DJsmoking meats, even though I've
never actually DJed in my lifebut maybe one day you're living
up to the namesake.
Yeah, yeah.

Doug (54:40):
Yeah, that's an incredible story.
Thank you, great Hal B Klein?
Thank you so much for spendingtime with us and thanks for
being on The Pittsburgh Dish.
It was a real pleasure.
That's our show for this week.
Thanks again to all of ourguests and contributors, and to
Kevin Solecki of CarnegieAccordion Company for providing
the music to our show.

(55:00):
We'll be back again next weekwith another fresh episode.
Stay tuned.