June 1, 2025 • 54 mins
What makes a truly extraordinary pizza? It's a question that Pittsburgh pizza masters Patrick Elston of Gus Franco's and Pete Tolman of Ironborn Pizza have spent years perfecting—crafting distinct styles that have earned them regional championships and devoted followings.
(00:52) Patrick's journey began with a mobile wood-fired pizza trailer in 2018, eventually establishing Gus Franco's brick-and-mortar location in Lower Burrell. His "American baker style" pizza represents a careful evolution from Neapolitan traditions, with meticulous attention to dough fermentation and bread-making techniques. The result? A perfectly crispy yet light crust that recently earned him recognition as the Northeast Region champion for traditional pizza at the International Pizza Expo.
(22:59) Meanwhile, Pete Tolman transformed a chance encounter with Detroit-style pizza during a Colorado ski trip into Ironborn Pizza, now thriving with locations in Millvale and the Strip District since 2017. His distinctive inch-plus-high crust with a lacy cheddar cheese edge has gathered its own accolades, including multiple Northeast regional championships. Beyond pizza, Ironborn's Strip District location showcases handmade pasta, fresh meatballs, and a full bar experience.
What truly sets these pizza makers apart is their dedication to craft. Patrick describes the intense relationship with his wood-fired oven—moving pizzas through five different "spots" during busy service, constantly managing heat, and treating each pie as an artistic creation. Pete reveals the science behind his dough, which rises higher than traditional Detroit-style, creating Ironborn's signature airy texture. Both prioritize quality ingredients, including non-bromated flours and proper fermentation, challenging the notion that pizza is merely "junk food."
(32:27) Their friendship exemplifies Pittsburgh's collaborative food scene—they attend pizza competitions together, celebrate each other's successes, and even share monthly dinners with their families. Their approach to business growth remains deliberately measured, with Patrick slowly introducing Sicilian pizzas and Pete focusing on strengthening operations at his existing locations.
Whether you're craving Patrick's "Hot Dad" pizza with sopressata and hot honey or Pete's white pie with garlic cream and roasted tomatoes, these pizza masters prove that Pittsburgh's pizza scene has evolved into something truly special. Visit them soon to taste what championship-level dedication to pizza craft really means.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Doug (00:01):
Welcome to The Pittsburgh Dish.
I'm your host, Doug Heilman.
What's your favorite style ofpizza or do you have that
special spot?
This week we sit down with twomaster pizza makers that have
not only crafted incrediblepizza and thriving businesses,
but also lasting friendships.
(00:23):
All that ahead, stay tuned.
Thank you, guys, so much forcoming over and for being on the
show.
Would you introduce yourselvesto our listeners and what you
have going on right now in theworld of food?
Patrick (00:41):
Sure, yes, I'll go first.
My name is Patrick Elston.
I co-own Gus Franco's Pizza inLower Borough with my wife,
Mandy.
It's a family-run establishment.
We do wood-fired pizzas.
We've been doing them in ourshop for just under four years.
Before that, we were a mobileunit traveling around town and
making wood-fired pizzas on theroad.
(01:02):
We liked that so much that weended up purchasing a building
and pursuing our pizza dream inLower Borough, which is not too
far from Pittsburgh for any ofyou guys out there.
Doug (01:11):
No, not at all.
I've been there, yeah.
And so, Patrick, I'm just doingmath real quick.
I don't think I knew you hadthe mobile unit.
So about seven or eight yearsnow total.
Patrick (01:21):
Yeah about.
Well, we started in 2018,taking years now total.
Yeah about.
Uh, well, we started in 2018,taking it pretty serious, bought
our trailer uh, sight unseenused from a gentleman in maine
and uh had it towed here.
We were saving up some money tobuy a camp at the time and
decided that the pizza thing wassomething that we wanted to try
.
So, instead of relaxing duringthe weekend, we uh now work
every weekend.
(01:41):
Yeah, but it's worth it.
We love it.
We absolutely fell in love withthe service side of things, the
hospitality side of things,making friends, making people
smile and they make us smileright back.
So it has been quite the ride.
It really, it truly has changedwho we are and everything about
our daily lives.
It's made me a much happierperson.
(02:02):
The service industry, inproviding things for people, has
really allowed me to open upand let the true me kind of come
out, and whatever is feelinggood is kind of just how we roll
with it at our place.
Doug (02:15):
I love that, Patrick.
Thank you so much, and sinceyou mentioned making friends,
let's introduce our other guest.
Pete (02:23):
Hi, my name is Pete Tolman .
I am the owner of IronbornPizza.
We have two locations One is inthe Strip District and the
other is in Millvale across theriver.
The thing that I'm kind ofexcited about right now is I was
featured in a book called thePursuit of Pizza as part of a
(02:44):
member of the World PizzaChampions, so it's pretty
exciting something I've neverdone.
It has our dough recipe inthere as well as our sauce, so
if you're interested in tryingto make it at home.
That's where you can find it.
Doug (02:57):
This is the newest thing for the Ironborn legacy.
Pete (03:00):
Yeah, correct.
So we opened in June of 2017 atSmallman Galley, yes, and then
we moved across the river toMillvale.
We closed the Smallman locationfrom there and then opened our
strip district location inDecember 2019.
Doug (03:18):
My goodness, I'm just doing quick math here too.
So you're coming up in June,you're coming up on an
anniversary, then Will that beeight years?
Pete (03:26):
I believe it's eight years .
Sometimes I'm except dates.
I'm pretty sure it was June2017.
Doug (03:33):
So we have two very different pizza styles in both
of your businesses, and if wehave some listeners out there
that haven't visited eitherlocation, let's describe to them
a little bit of what you'reserving up in terms of pizza
style, and I know there's moreon the menu, so I want to get to
that too.
Pete, I'll go back to you.
Will you tell listeners what isthe pizza that you guys are
(03:55):
dishing out?
Pete (03:56):
So we specialize in Detroit style pizza.
Detroit style pizza is kind ofpopular for a style of pan with
sloping shoulders, so it buildsthis cheddar cheese crust around
the outside.
It's a pan style pizza.
Doug (04:11):
It's amazing that crust is everything.
Pete (04:14):
That edge.
Yeah, there's somethingexciting about just that little
crispy corner that you want, butthe dough is light and airy.
Detroit style pizza also hassauce on top, so that's a little
different than some styles ofpizza, but it's just a really
good light, airy pan style pizzathat people really like.
Doug (04:33):
I had never experienced it before.
Until you opened in Smallman Idid not know about Detroit style
and that lacy edge it got mefor sure.
Pete (04:43):
Yeah, we were really fortunate to be one of the first
ones to do it and really triedour best to focus on the dough,
working on the procedures,making sure that we do it
consistently every day.
I love it.
Doug (04:56):
Patrick, back to you.
You mentioned to us that yougot this wood-fired oven.
How do you describe your pizzastyle at your shop, Gus Franco's
?
Patrick (05:05):
Yeah, so over the years our pizza style has adapted.
We were early days we focusedon a couple of different styles
when we were playing around withpizza at home.
I started getting some highertemperatures with a charcoal
grill actually that.
I got up in the mid-700s and Istarted to see some changes in
in how the dough was reacting,started to tinker around with
(05:28):
different types of flour and uhand and it was more of a
neapolitan kind of inspiredpizza at the time uh, we
referred to it as neo-neapolitan.
That was kind of the thecatchphrase at the time where
you were making a 12-inch round,you know semi-soft pizza that
had the leoparding around theoutside, and the more we did it,
(05:49):
the more I wanted to kind ofcrispify that pizza.
So I guess I refer to it thesedays as an American baker style
pizza we do a lot of.
I mean, our dough recipe isbasically a bread recipe in a
lot of ways, so I studied a lotof different bread styles and
fermentations and the deeper Iwent down that hole.
(06:10):
The changes that came along withthat journey have been really
cool and it changes all the time.
We've lowered our temperature alot that we bake at.
We're in the low to mid 700smost night.
Temperature-wise, on the top welike our floor to be around 600
degrees and that allows thatpizza to cook for about three,
three and a half minutes.
That makes that bottom crisp upjust enough to keep, uh, the
(06:33):
Pittsburgh crowd happy.
That's kind of used to thattype of pizza, but also allows
the crust to be delicate andlight and airy and with a nice
chew to it that just kind of uhis almost buttery in a way with
the fermentation.
So long story short, yeah,American baker kind of New
Yorkish wood-fired style pizza.
Doug (06:52):
Are you creating a whole new term, American baker style?
Patrick (06:55):
Let's do that, I've kind of seen people use that
term, and I like that because itis not a true Neapolitan style.
It is not a Roman Neapolitanstyle.
It is not a Roman style, itreally is.
Doug (07:07):
It's breaking from Italian traditions so much, because
you're really creating somethingthat doesn't fit in any box,
but it's relying on those roots,those roots of that traditional
type of wood-fired pizza thatgot us kind of there.
Patrick (07:23):
And then we, as the pizza scene in America, which is
outstanding, I mean it's uh,it's really truly fascinating to
see the growth of pizza in thetypes of different styles and
the regional styles.
Man, it's that's kind of wherewe're focused at right now,
although we do tinker on Tuesdaynights with Detroit style I'd
call it a grandma.
Detroit because it's about maybea third as thick as Pete's,
(07:44):
which is the true definition ofDetroit.
So ours is a little thinnerwith the cheese crust, and so we
do that on Tuesdays.
We're playing around with theSicilian.
Now we're getting some electricupgrades.
A gentleman named Steven thatworks for me has taken on the
Sicilian project and we've beenhaving some great results and
(08:05):
we're really excited to possiblybe releasing that on a limited
basis coming up.
But our bread and butter isstill the 12-inch round pie that
we sell every day.
Doug (08:13):
I love it.
You mentioned a couple ofthings and I just want to break
down for people out there.
I love educating people on somethings, so we have said Pete's
doing a Detroit-style Pete howthick is the typical Detroit
style crust.
Pete (08:27):
So the typical Detroit style crust I would call over an
inch high, but under an inchand a half.
So let's call it an inch and aquarter.
I would say that, ironborn, ifwe are docked anything against
Detroit style pizza, it'sbecause we lift it almost too
high pizza.
It's because we lift it almosttoo high.
So true, if you look at TrueBuddies or Cloverleaf, their
(08:48):
pizzas are generally just alittle bit shorter than mine.
Doug (08:51):
But once we started at Smallman, everybody kind of got
used to that tall lift and wejust couldn't take it away.
And what's the differencebetween that and then what we
would call a grandma style pie?
Grandmas are thinner.
Pete (09:04):
Grandmas are a little thinner.
There's no cheddar cheese crust.
It's in a grandma style pie.
Grandmas are thinner, grandmasare a little thinner.
There's no cheddar cheese crust.
It's in a different style pan,um, generally one you have at
home, so like a half sheet panright or a quarter sheet pan.
Doug (09:14):
Yeah, exactly this is what people could do at home,
because they probably don't havethe detroit style pan, unless
they use like a cake right yeah,you could either order a true
detroit style pan.
Pete (09:25):
But even if you use a cast iron, not a pot like a cast
iron saute pan right, exactly,or just take that half sheet pan
, oil it down.
Doug (09:35):
Take your favorite, come to one of our shops, get, get
dough off of one of us, tap itout and bake it off, you know we
want people to go to your shops, but pete is giving mad skills
on how to do some things at home.
I love this, yeah, even if it'slike giant eagle dough go ask
him for it, slap it into a pan,put your favorite sauce on it
and it'll turn out to be prettygood and so many people actually
(09:56):
will sell you their dough ifyou stop in yeah, absolutely one
more that patrick mentioned wasleopardized, and you mean the
spotty browning, leoparding,leoparding.
Patrick (10:09):
I love that At least that's the way I say it Well,
I've never heard that before.
Yeah, so yeah, when you getthose little dark spots all
along the crust in a pizzacooked at a higher temperature
and it doesn't have to be woodfired A lot of people consider
that a wood fired trait andthat's probably where they get
that flavor, where they thinkthe smoke is affecting it.
When you're running an ovenabove 700 degrees there's really
(10:30):
not a lot of smoke and whatsmoke there is is living up in
the ceiling of that oven.
So unless I pick that pizza upon purpose and put it in that
smoke, you're not getting a truesmoke flavor.
You're getting a char flavorfrom that high temperature.
That's making the leopard spotson that crust.
A lot of really good electricovens that are out there now.
(10:50):
Pete actually uses a pizza ovencalled a Pizza Master that can
reach temperatures the same asmy wood-fired oven can reach
over 900 degrees.
So you can take my dough and goto a place like Pete's and
crank that oven up and reallymake the same looking pizza that
you would in my shop.
I think the wood brings a lotof things to the table.
(11:15):
I think it's just a sexier wayto cook a pizza.
To be honest with you, I thinkit's every pizza that goes in
there.
I have to watch the entire time.
Every pizza is customized.
If I walk away from it for morethan 30 seconds, I have to make
a new pizza for somebody.
So it requires your fullattention.
There's no just popping it in,closing the door, coming back in
a couple minutes, spinning thatthing one time and going.
(11:35):
You're moving it from spot tospot.
Sometimes on a busy Fridaynight you're chasing heat that
floor.
If you think of every pizzathat goes into, that oven is
sucking heat out of that floorand you need to replenish that
as much as you can.
On a busy night there's nodowntime to really let that heat
pump back up.
So so it's six o'clock to eighto'clock on a Friday night.
If you come watch me cook,you're going to see a man in
(11:57):
motion.
Pete (11:57):
I mean cooking in that oven.
Patrick (11:59):
Literally, you are going, you're searching and
you're trying to.
In my oven, in my head, I havefive different spots in there
that I cook pieces on, so I'mtrying to only have three, maybe
four, in there at all times andthen having one spot that I'm
kind of letting recharge andthen I'll start to use it and
let another spot recharge.
So when you're trying to getthat top finished at the same
(12:21):
time that the bottom finishes,so that fire is always going to
be raging, you can keep loadinglogs in there and that top heat
is always there on demand whenyou want it, but the bottom heat
is really where you have toplay catch up sometimes.
That's what separates a lot ofpeople in the wood fired oven to
when they get gas.
We just had our floor replacedand there was this little corner
of the floor that had its ownlittle brick.
(12:43):
It was a solid floor except forthis little brick and I never
knew why.
Four years I never asked thequestion why that was.
So when they broke that floorout to put a new one in, I saw
that piece and I'm like what isthis?
And they said we put that inthere because so many people buy
a wood-fired oven and realizein a couple months how hard it
is and how intense it is.
(13:03):
I mean, it's you're in arelationship with that thing.
That's my second wife, to behonest with you like I mean you
have to understand and work witheach other and compromise like
there's it's.
It's insane, but they said thatlittle.
That plug allows them to popthat out of there, drill a hole
in the bottom and put a gas linein there to allow that gas
assist to kind of help regulatethat heat, because if you're
(13:25):
blasting too much, too little, Imean you're worried as much
about the fire in that oven asyou are the actual pizzas in it.
So it's quite a dance and it'sdefinitely something that I
still learn.
Every shift I work and makepizzas I learned something that
I shouldn't do or something thatI should do and just yeah, it's
(13:46):
an absolute.
So every day is a journey, butit's so worth it.
When they come out lookingpretty and I mean I have an art
degree.
I didn't go to college, I wentto a two-year art school and I
haven't been super creativeafter I graduated.
I never had a job in art, Inever got to use that to earn a
living.
But making these pizzas allowsme to create a little something,
(14:09):
you know, a whole bunch oftimes at night and then serve it
to somebody and get a reaction.
So I still get that, thatfeeling that I chased when I
would paint or when I wouldsketch something up.
So that allows uh it hits awhole bunch of uh feels with me
to uh to make a good pizza forsomebody.
Not only feeding somebodysomething that I consider fairly
healthy for something looked atas junk food, but to give them
(14:32):
something that we created withour hands, that we cared about,
that we put three or four daysinto that dough is super
satisfying, so it's the coolestthing I've ever done.
Doug (14:43):
I mean, all of that kind of goes back to and in fact you
said something that I willdisagree.
I don't usually disagree.
I don't think of pizza as junkfood well, yeah, it certainly
can.
Well, it can, I mean I've seensome of the loaded pies, but
like you are putting so muchcare in, like the flour and the
processing and the, I don't, Imean, I think it's a good
quality, it, yeah, and it it canbe, you know you get you know
(15:06):
and Pete will agree with me wethe further down the pizza
journey you get, you learnwhat's good and what's bad.
Patrick (15:14):
You learn that there's no need for bromated bleached
flours, like people are soconcerned.
Like bromate does a lot ofthings.
One thing it does is give moreoven spring to your dough.
So if you're using the sameamount of flour and you're
making one loaf of bread, that's100% its size, and if you don't
use that bromated, it might be80%.
(15:34):
So a lot of bakers are like,well, I want mine to be bigger,
I can get more money for it.
So they use bromated flours,which allows that, and they're
bleached.
You don't need that.
It's not even legal in certainstates around the world, like
they're banning bromated flowers.
So I know Pete usesnon-bromated and unbleached
flowers in his stuff, but noteverybody does.
(15:55):
I mean a lot of the.
You know the pizza shops thatare chain pizzas like the bigger
guys.
Bigger guys are, you know,probably.
You know their.
Their margins are really small,yeah, and they need to use
value products.
So they're probably using, youknow, things that are giving
bigger results.
And uh, and by no means am I adoctor, but the more you hear
(16:18):
about gluten intolerance andthings like that, I have a lot
of.
Personally, I have a lot ofcustomers that are gluten
sensitive not celiac, but glutensensitivities that can eat our
pizza because we're not usingflours that have that stuff in
them.
We're fermenting them properlyover time.
That allows that yeast to go inthere and break down all the
simple sugars and all the thingsthat are in there and kind of
(16:40):
do half the digestion for you.
So it's much easier on people'sguts and there's a lot of
places throughout Pittsburgh andin the United States that are
doing it that way, that aretrying to promote a bit of a
healthier way.
But I know, growing up like byno means if somebody in my
family was on a diet were theylike, oh yeah, we're eating good
tonight.
You know we're going to savesome calories and go grab a
(17:03):
pizza, you know what?
I mean.
So that's what I mean when Isay you know it's never.
You know it's kind ofconsidered junk food because you
sit down and you gorge yourselfon a greasy pie and do your
thing.
But yeah, the more people learnabout that and the more people
like that care, like Pete and abunch of other pizza makers
throughout the city and aroundthe world are trying to change
(17:25):
that.
Look on pizza.
I think yeah.
Doug (17:28):
Well, thank you for that.
Yeah, Pete, I want to come backto you too, because at Ironborn
, in the Strip District location, you're doing even more than
just pizza, right?
Pete (17:37):
Yeah, we have a full menu, full bar as well, 42 seats or
so, so you can dine in straightout of the oven, the great oven
that we were just talking about.
We make everything that we canthere other than like sliced
frozen chips, but we deep frythose and season them ourselves.
Doug (17:57):
Potato chips.
Pete (17:57):
Yeah, yes, house chips that's pretty much all we have
in the freezer.
But we make our own meatballsby hand.
We hand cut pasta.
It's usually like a one to twoaged, uh, drying process to kind
of firm up the noodles for aday, kind of set the shape of
the noodle.
Um, so you're making the noodlein-house?
Yep, yeah, we have a fullextruder, so everything's made
(18:17):
by hand and sliced right throughthe extruder.
Um, rigatoni spaghettiorecchiette extruder rigatoni
spaghetti orecchiette.
Doug (18:26):
Don't you have a bolognese on?
Pete (18:28):
the menu.
Doug (18:31):
Yep, we always have a bolognese marinara and then the
meatballs are really, reallypopular right now.
I also want to just add you notonly have ranch and hot sauce,
you bottle it yeah.
Pete (18:40):
That was one of my sous chef's ideas, or kitchen
managers.
I'm sorry, but he said hey,people love the ranch.
Why don't you just bottle iteight ounces at a time and sell
it?
Doug (18:49):
And you're making that in-house too right?
Pete (18:51):
Oh yeah, we make all our own dressings and everything
else as well.
Doug (18:55):
Let me ask, going back to the pizzas, maybe just right now
, what are some of the bangers,the ones that everyone that you
think you sell the most?
Pete (19:06):
So normally our most popular are the white pie, which
is a garlic cream, roastedtomato, caramelized onions,
ricotta, arugula, lemon oil andthen a little bit of Parmesan.
Or probably the spicy pie,which is hot soap, risotto,
house-made banana peppers, Isopepperoni.
Doug (19:27):
I love Iso pepperoni.
Oh, it cups beautifully right,it's so good.
Pete (19:31):
It chars up in the oven.
Yes, gives you everything youwant.
Pretty much, but uh, and thenpretty much from there, just
herbs and romano, but those areprobably our top two.
Okay, I'll be down later.
Doug (19:41):
yeah, we'll be open, I'll be there too.
I think the thing I love aboutthat pie is it has that sweet.
It has that little tang fromthe pickle, it's got it all.
Pete (19:53):
Yeah, sweet salty, a little bit of pickle to it.
It's really really good.
Doug (19:58):
Patrick, if we go to you and you think about the pizzas
you're slinging out right now,do you have a couple that are
the top movers right now forfolks?
Patrick (20:06):
Yeah, I mean over the years since 2018, we've been
making the hot dad pizza, whichis our version of, all the way
back, probably, to a placecalled Polly G's in New York
City.
The gentleman named Mike thatused to work for Polly developed
Mike's Hot Honey, which Peteand I are both big fans of and
we continue to use on a dailybasis.
(20:26):
He got the hat on yeah, it's mydaily driver up there, but uh,
so they make a they.
He made a pizza with hot, soprosada mike's hot honey on
their regular cheese pie thathas some, you know, mozzarella
blend and crushed tomatoes andsea salt and a little bit of
olive oil and parmesan on there.
So that pizza I always say thatthat our pizza shop is the.
(20:47):
You know it was built by the hotdad it was literally yeah,
that's, that's always been ournumber one seller.
What a great name.
And a couple years ago, uh, westarted.
I reached out to a chef in incalifornia named daniella uditi
that uh owns.
Uh, I don't I'm blanking on onthe name of his spot at the
(21:07):
moment, but he makes a cacioacioe pepe pizza and I reached out
to him and asked him for somepointers and asked if he minded
if I would make my version ofthat and with his blessing, we
started to.
We did that as one of our pizzamaker specials and it's super
creamy and delicious and it'sjust a seasoned heavy cream and
(21:27):
mozzarella base.
We cook it like that, we pullit out, we make a Parmesan cream
that gets piped on afterwardsand, as I tell the people that
work for me, I'm like put onfresh cracked black pepper till
you think it's enough and thenput a little bit more on there.
Yeah, because that's the shiningstar.
That pizza has become aneveryday pizza on our menu and
(21:49):
is slowly climbing the charts tochallenge the hot dad.
The most popular two-pizzaorder by far on a given night is
a cacio and a hot dad Wow.
Doug (22:01):
I kind of like that both of your locations have sort of a
white-style pie as a top seller.
That wouldn't have been a guessfor me.
Patrick (22:09):
We have a classic, we call it the Bianca, yeah, and it
has shaved, fresh shaved garlic, whipped ricotta, has cherry
tomatoes, a little bit of freshbasil, olive oil, sea salt and
parm and that and that isanother one that we always
surprises me, for whateverreason, that we just sell a ton
of that pizza.
That's likely.
(22:31):
Ton of that pizza, that's thatlikely is a little still higher
than the cacio pepe, but the thecacio is quickly.
It's catching up, it's clay, itis catching cacione up.
Doug (22:38):
So, uh, yeah, absolutely all right.
Guys, you've already droppedlike a ton of knowledge and
skill just by like what you'resaying, but I want to know a
little bit more about like yourbackground and how you became
like this.
Uh, pizziolo master, that youboth seem to be pete, why don't
we go back to you detroit stylelike in fact, I'll take you guys
(22:58):
a little further back is there?
Is there a pizza from like yourgrowing up?
That was like the pizza andthen it led you to the love of
pizza uh, to me there kind kindof is.
Pete (23:09):
I grew up in Kittanning Pennsylvania, oh.
Doug (23:12):
I know it.
Pete (23:12):
Oh, I know you do Serena's , I love Sirena's, so there's
something reminiscent to mypizza and Sirena's as a kid.
They're two different styles.
They really don't associate,but in my mind they do somehow.
Doug (23:27):
Sirena's pizza Serena pizza.
Pete (23:30):
Sirena's pizza sirena sirena's, I call it.
I have no idea, though it's inthe Franklin Village Mall in
Kittanning yep, I grew up maybehalf a mile or a mile from there
, so it's been open as long as Ican remember that whole plaza.
Doug (23:42):
I think opened in the 80s, so yeah I've had multiple
friends work there.
Pete (23:46):
I think it's changed hands a few times, but it's still
there.
And from there I went to IUPculinary school and then I
externed at Nemecolin Woodlands, probably stayed there four or
five years, worked my way up tothe five-star kitchen, went to
Chicago, worked at Alenia, whichis a three-star Michelin
(24:07):
restaurant.
Came back home worked for GiantEagle, worked up to Executive
Chef.
Doug (24:14):
I think Paul Abbott and Eric White have mentioned you.
Yes, exactly.
Pete (24:17):
Yeah, Paul and Eric I know very well.
From there, I went on a trip toTelluride, Colorado, which I
went to Brown Dog Pizza, JeffSmokovich, who is on the world
pizza champions.
We had friends that gave us aplace to stay, which was very
gracious of them, and they'relike you got to go to this pizza
(24:38):
shop.
You got to go to this pizzashop.
Doug (24:40):
I'm like really Telluride Colorado really small ski town.
Pete (24:44):
Um.
So I was snowboarding and thefriends were like you got to go
eat there.
So I was like I don't even knowwhat Detroit style pizza is
like.
Are we really going to be inColorado and go eat at a pizza
shop?
Um, I was.
I went there.
I was blown away, super excited, never tried anything like it
(25:05):
and I kind of said at the tablewhy is?
Doug (25:06):
nobody in Pittsburgh doing this right now.
Pete (25:07):
So from there I kind of worked on the recipe and I had
already known how to bake breadand learn my way through the
ropes of kitchens at that point.
Doug (25:15):
What year was that that you were in Telluride and
experienced Detroit-style pizzathere?
Pete (25:21):
I think it was 2016, because it was one full year.
I had to try out for SmallmanGalley and I was prepared at
that point and then, I think,like four months after that, we
opened my goodness, what atransformation yeah, it was a
wild year.
Patrick (25:36):
This is Pete Tolman with Ironborn Pizza and I'm
Patrick Elston with Gus Franco'spizza and you're listening to
The Pittsburgh Dish, patrick,what about you?
Doug (25:46):
you said you had had a different life before Gus Franco
.
Where did the pizza making andpizza learning start to happen
or come from?
Patrick (25:55):
So my early culinary training as well as my early
life pizza are intertwined.
My grandfather owned a dinerwith his brother for over 50
years in the city of NewKensington and downtown New
Kensington.
So at the age of eight or nineI would wash pots and pans in
the back to earn the right tocook my own burger and make my
(26:18):
own fries.
Oh my gosh.
So that's my formal training.
Pete (26:22):
What was their?
Patrick (26:22):
diner's name.
It was called Andy's Restaurant.
Doug (26:25):
Andy's.
Patrick (26:26):
Restaurant On Fifth Avenue.
I remember it on Fifth.
It spent some time in the 50sand 60s, I believe, on 9th
Street, New Kensington, and thenI grew up with it being on 5th
Avenue, New Kensington.
My whole family worked thereaunts, uncles, my mom.
So it was yeah, that was myearly culinary experience was
getting to cook some burgers andfries after I washed some pots
(26:46):
and pans.
Now next door was Egidio's.
Egidio's was the pizza that, ifwe were getting pizza, that's
what we got.
Because it was right next door,it was easy to grab.
This is your Sirena pizza.
Doug (26:57):
This is my Sirena pizza, right so?
Patrick (26:59):
Egidio's was in New Kensington on Fifth Avenue.
They were a staple there.
It was the first white pizza Iever had and I still wish I
could recreate that pie somehow.
It and, uh, and I still wish Icould recreate that pie somehow.
It was probably much moresimple than I'm that.
I'm trying to make it in myhead, but, uh, that pizza was,
was really great.
Had sliced red tomatoes on topof it, uh.
(27:19):
So, but my early pizza daysyeah, that was it.
Agitios was was my spot, uh.
And then throughout my life, uh, I I had a couple part-time
jobs.
When I would get laid off inthe winter time from a seasonal
job that I had, that I wouldcook at a local bar in New
Kensington called the Blind Pig.
I did that for a season makingsome simple stuff for them, but
(27:40):
it was mostly just cooking athome for my family with my wife.
The whole pizza thing startedbecause of my wife wanting to do
a pizza project, and then Istarted to get more interested
in it because it was like ascience project and for some
reason that intrigued me and, uh, and it kind of frustrated her
at the time.
So she was the more creativeside of flavors and whatnot, and
I was working on on buildingthat foundation.
Doug (28:01):
Yes, you also sparked another question, since you were
talking about your wife wantingto do this pizza project.
Can you share with our audience, uh, where the name of your
shop comes from?
Patrick (28:10):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Gus Franco's is nicknames wehave for our children.
Francis and August go by Gusand Franco.
Francis is named after mygrandfather who owned Andy's
restaurant with his brother,Fran Datris, and then August is
named after my wife'sgrandfather's, Augustine, known
(28:31):
as Gus Franco.
So when we were naming thepizza shop I was literally
trying to Pete and I he was alittle ahead of me but when I
was talking some names over inthe early days because I was
working with wood, I think itwas like steel brick, something
like that.
And then somebody was like Ithink there's a place called
Iron Something in Pittsburgh.
That's good and I'm like what?
Doug (28:52):
How dare?
Patrick (28:53):
they.
I'm going down there and givingthem a piece of my mind.
So my wife and I went toSmallman not to give them a
piece of my mind.
We were just down there wantingto eat and we ate the pizza and
I'm like, oh, they can havethis name, we're going to think
of something else if we end updoing this and then Gus sounded
way more pizza-y than PatrickElston pizza?
Doug (29:10):
It definitely does.
It sounds super Italian to me.
Patrick (29:13):
Half my customers call me Gus, and I don't mind it at
all.
Pete (29:16):
I called him Gus the first week I met him.
No joke.
Patrick (29:20):
Even Heather Abraham.
Sometimes I'll Talk Pittsburghlike you do PTL, and every now
and again she'll still slip upand call me Gus sometimes, and I
don't mind at all, because Gusis named after one of the
greatest people I've ever met inmy life.
He's the greatest kid.
You know both of my children.
I love them dearly and Icouldn't imagine it being named
(29:40):
anything else at this point.
So people can call me whateverthey want, as long as they come,
get a pizza every now and againand throw a smile our way like
we're doing all right.
Doug (29:50):
It totally works.
Yeah Well, now you have methinking.
Pete, I have to ask you wheredid the Ironborn name come from?
Pete (30:01):
So Ironborn is supposed to mean steel city.
born because I grew up inKittanning, Pennsylvania, so I
wanted a way to associate thesteel pans that we cook in.
We use a lot of steel tie-insin our ambiance in the
restaurant, let's call it.
And then we did happen to bewatching Game of Thrones and my
wife was smart enough to say whydon't you just name the
(30:22):
pizzeria Ironborn Pizza?
I was like, wow, that's such agreat name.
So I've told Patrick this story.
The original name for Ironbornwas going to be Baker's Table
Pizza and I'm very glad it's not.
Doug (30:37):
Ironborn is much better.
I love it.
Yes, I love how we come tothings.
This podcast was going to benamed something completely
different.
Pete (30:43):
That's a story for another day I was going to say you've
got to tell us now.
Patrick (30:47):
Pete has the best branding.
I mean he puts so much time,effort and thought and money
into his merchandise andbranding.
I mean Steven that works for meliterally half the time has an
Ironborn hat on because it's sosweet, it's great merch he has
great merch.
He has great everything abouthis branding I'm super jealous
of, so I just want that to beout there.
Pete (31:09):
My wife, Carrie, is a marketer so she, after we knew
Ironborn, I was like, wow, wecan do all these different
tie-ins and we used Top HatMarketing back in the day.
Currently we use Aaron Eastlerand he does a lot of the
t-shirts and the cool merch.
You're sporting one right now,right, so we made these really
(31:33):
cool pizza hats with a smallIronborn emblem that kind of
look old-timey.
Patrick (31:35):
That's the one I look at all day long Right.
Pete (31:37):
People love that hat.
Patrick (31:38):
So if you're looking for cool hats, they're at both
stores.
I did try to get a little merchrecently.
We got some stuff done, but byno means is it on that tier.
Doug (31:49):
Okay, you'll have to talk to Pete's wife.
Patrick (31:51):
No no.
Doug (31:51):
I like being the underdog anyway.
I don't know if I've asked thisquestion yet.
We've been going for a while.
How did you two meet and becomefriends, Patrick?
You just said you guys wentdown and had the pizza.
How did the friendship andcamaraderie happen?
Pete (32:07):
I want to say maybe Eddie I don't know, eddie, I don't
know it could have been eddie,uh, eddie from eddie's pizza 412
.
Doug (32:13):
Yes the instagram personality he has the most
excellent pizza maker uh,pepperoni roses is yes claim to
fame.
In my mind, that's that's hissignature.
Patrick (32:22):
Topping, no doubt, I think eddie probably introduced
us maybe in vegas.
Pete (32:27):
Uh, we go to las vegas each year for the Pizza Expo.
Doug (32:30):
Let's talk about that.
So Vegas has the World PizzaExpo International.
Pete (32:36):
Pizza Expo in Las Vegas every third week in March.
Doug (32:39):
How long have you two been going out to the Expo?
Pete (32:42):
I think I've been every year, except for my first year,
so probably six years, and youPatrick, I've been there four
times.
Patrick (32:50):
Yeah, I've been there, I think, four times.
And you, patrick, I've beenthere four times, yeah.
Doug (32:52):
I've been there, I think, four times, and you both have
come back with some recognitionlet's just say yeah, patrick,
most recently.
Recently, 2025.
What did you achieve?
Patrick (33:00):
Yeah, 2025,.
I competed in the traditionalcategory, which is generally the
first one to fill up.
It's the biggest fieldgenerally and has the best prize
money.
So I said, well, let's just gofor the Swing for it.
Yeah, let's go.
If we're doing it, we're doingit.
So that was the first one thatI ever competed in three years
ago and I came in somewhere inthe top 30.
(33:21):
So I was super proud of that.
The next year, I said let's trysomething a little different in
the non-traditional, and onejudge absolutely despised my
pizza.
That's all right, though.
I was super happy with it, uh,but this year I went back to
traditional.
I'm like look, this is my, thisis this is my wheelhouse, this
is what I make every day.
I'm gonna make our red saucecheese pie.
Uh, the traditional categoryonly allows you to use two of,
(33:44):
like, the most common type oftoppings, so you can do like
sausage, pepperoni, peppers,onions, mushrooms, stuff like
that.
So I made some, uh, somehouse-made pickled peppers and
and I use these, uh, pepperonias well.
Yes, I say iso sausage becausethey call it sausage for pizza,
uh, so I slip up, but it ispepperoni uh for you out there,
um, so we use that.
(34:04):
And, uh, we came in, uh, top 20and, but we did, uh, I, I came
in the best in the entirenortheast.
So I won the northeast region,which is all pennsylvania, new
jersey, new york, and, and allthe way up through the new
england states, the besttraditional, best traditional
pizza.
Doug (34:22):
Yeah, pizza, oh my goodness, in the northeast is uh
yeah, and I didn't even realizeit.
Patrick (34:27):
um, I was happy, you know, coming in the place, but I
figured somebody had to come inhigher than me from this region
Does this include New YorkIncludes New York.
Yeah, new York, new Jersey,connecticut, so New Haven's in
there.
So anybody that was competingfrom any one of those states, as
the kids say, you slayed it.
(34:47):
Yeah it was pretty cool.
So I didn't even know that Ihad won that.
And in the next day, uh, rico,who had an amazing trip out
there, rico Lunardi, from sliceon Broadway, sent me a text and
said you know, oh,congratulations, man, I can't
believe you won.
And I'm like I didn't winanything.
Like I came in you know top 20,I'm really happy with it.
And he sent me a picture ofthis like giant board that they
(35:09):
have there that showed me numberone.
He's like your last name's,elston, right.
And I'm like, oh my God.
I turned to my wife.
I'm like I won the Northeast.
Like this is crazy.
So that whole, yeah, that was apretty exciting stuff, but the
best thing about it, it truly.
I mean, I wasn't out there totry and take over the world and
claim to be the best of anything, but it validates my customers.
(35:32):
Like I don't advertise.
I don't have an advertisingbudget other than the crazy wrap
that I put on my van that Idrive around every day.
That's been my entireadvertising budget for the last
four years but it validates thepeople that continually tell
their friends and theirneighbors and their family to
come buy pizza off of us.
So it gives them a chance topuff out their chest a little
(35:55):
bit and say I told you, you knowwhat I mean.
Why haven't you gone there yet?
And it allows that word ofmouth, which we've been very
lucky to have, that the peoplethat, like us, are really
passionate about it.
I mean, I grew up playing inbands.
I was a front man for so manybands that nobody would ever
remember, but I loved being upthere on stage and I can
(36:18):
remember being young and likinga band and telling everybody
about it and then they got superpopular.
But it was nice to be able tosay I was one of the first ones
I told you about that band.
You know and we feel that wayabout our customers now that
they can kind of say, hey look,they got a little recognition
and you should go try it.
So it allows that grassrootskind of marketing thing to
(36:38):
continue to help us out.
Doug (36:40):
Well, I love that you're throwing it out to your
customers, but it's reallyvalidating your skills too.
When you were talking earlierabout the experimentation and
the best flower, it really alsogoes back to all the things
you're doing.
Patrick (36:50):
When it happens to you, it's so strange that it doesn't
feel like that, uh, but uh,yeah, it's, uh, it really yeah,
I mean the, the bigger part ofit that I get a kick out of.
I don't even like when peopleask me how it went.
I'm it's not the first thing Ibring up.
I generally usually somebodythat's working with me will say
oh, he won this, look at thatblack you that plaque, but it's
not something that I try tothrow out there and brag about,
(37:13):
because, again, I could havedone better and I plan on doing
better.
I got a little taste of alittle bit of success in there
and Pete has the same, I thinkyou won.
Doug (37:23):
Remind us, what else have you guys achieved with Ironborn
out at the Expo?
Pete (37:27):
So, just like Patrick getting first in Northeast in
the International Pizza Expo, Ialso I believe in 2019, again,
I'm bad with dates I got thirdoverall and first in Northeast
non-traditional pizza.
And then my GM won third placein the Caputo Cup in Atlantic
(37:49):
City, maybe the year after thatand then 2023.
I want to say she won first innortheast, third overall again.
So we've been third overallthree times and first in
northeast three times, but sarahhas the hot man shout out to
Sara Sara.
Doug (38:08):
Sara Boyer, yeah, okay, she's come up on the podcast
before.
Yeah.
Pete (38:12):
So she placed third this year.
Then they made everybodyre-compete, which was very
confusing.
Then she got fourth, so she gotknocked out, otherwise she
would have three.
Patrick (38:23):
Three third places in a row?
Doug (38:25):
Oh my goodness, well, still I mean, yeah, she's doing
great.
You guys are competing againsthow many other pizza locations
in the country, I have to say,like mad props, and I know that
there's a huge contingent ofPittsburghers that go out to the
expo.
We always come back with a lotof wins.
So thank you guys so much forrepresenting.
Patrick (38:44):
Yeah.
Doug (38:44):
Our pleasure.
I'd love to know, as we kind ofmove forward in your businesses
, do you guys have anythingcoming up in the near or long
term?
I know we're just past the expo, pete probably has more going
on than I do.
Pete (38:58):
So he should probably go first, are you?
Patrick (38:59):
doing Picklesburgh again.
Pete (39:01):
No oh never mind.
Yeah, we unfortunately aregoing through some staffing
issues.
So if anybody's searching for ajob and would love to come work
for a great staff, please callus.
But I had multiple managersleave for one reason or another
Everybody on good terms, whichis great, but just kind of lost
some heavy hitters there for asecond and we're ramping back up
(39:25):
.
But I wouldn't say Sara'stalking to me much about
Picklesburgh.
I wouldn't say Sara's talking tome much about Picklesburgh,
so I mean so just to reframethat, like Pete, you're in a
place where you are staffing upthe team just to do more at the
two locations right now.
Correct, yeah.
We have a brand new managerstarting in Millvale.
(39:46):
That's super excited right now,so we're hoping to revamp that
menu and freshen it up quite abit, all right, All steady and
good stuff.
Doug (39:51):
Thank you, Patrick, what about you?
Any events happening, any newthings happening for the shop?
Patrick (39:56):
Yeah, so I'm getting some electrical upgrades because
I purchased a small double deckelectric oven.
Oh, okay, this is going downthe Sicilian path that we were
talking about the Stephenproject, Sicilian path that we
were talking about the StephenProject.
And so once we get our amperageup from 100 service to 200
(40:17):
service, we're going to be ableto get those ovens cranking and
start to learn the way to cookthem in that oven.
We've been doing them in thewood-fired oven because that's
our one and only cooking utensilin the entire building.
So we've been doing theSicilians in there, but they're
much too big and they cook at alittle bit lower temperature
than our round pies, so it'stough to do them at the same
(40:39):
time.
So we're hoping to start tohave at least 10 to 15 Sicilians
available each day, which aregoing to be a 12 by 12 inch
thicker crust kind of a panfried super crispy bottom.
Doug (40:53):
Expanding the menu with this new oven, trying what?
Patrick (40:55):
kind of oven uh, it's, it's, uh, it's a advanco oven
which is a a a bit of a bargainbasement brand through uh,
through a webster on store,because, uh, if it doesn't work
out well, I didn't want tooverinvest.
Pete (41:13):
Is it just a standard?
Patrick (41:15):
It's a standard.
It has two 18-inch decks.
It's a double deck.
Top and bottom heat areseparate, kind of like the a la
Pizza Master.
So we'll be able to play aroundwith what the heat is coming
from the top, so the cheeseisn't getting overcooked or the
bottom's well done and whatnot.
So it is going to allow us toto practice and dial that in.
(41:35):
I do nothing very fast, I don'ttake a lot of risks that aren't
overthought a million timesslow and steady slow and steady,
and that's the way I do it too,yeah, I can't.
Uh.
So even like detroit's, westill only do detroit pies,
quote unquote, detroit inspiredpies, uh, on tuesdays, because
we just don't have the time,energy and and to do it every
(41:58):
day you don't want to disappointthe people that are coming back
, you're like this is anexperiment.
Doug (42:02):
This isn't something we're ready to weave in all the time.
Pete (42:04):
But he also doesn't roll it out until he's totally
confident that he's happy withit.
Doug (42:07):
That's right, right I think slow and steady for both
shops success.
You guys have both been aroundwell over seven years now, going
strong.
Patrick (42:16):
Everyone loves it, I mean it's not I, I'd like making
.
I like earning a living makingpizza, but I'm not just doing it
to make as much as I can in theshortest amount of time which
right which would make me rushthings and make me put out
product.
I mean I I can't even imaginehow much more money I would have
made if I allowed people toorder extra cheese on a on our
one or a round pizza.
(42:37):
I mean every other person untilthey kind of learned that we
don't do that would would getextra cheese.
So the amount I mean just inextra cheese, it w ould have
been.
But I know that extra cheese onour pizza does not cook
properly by the time that crustis starting to Brown and be
ready to go.
All that cheese pot up andthere's still going to be raw on
the bottom side, the middle ofthe pizza is going to be soggy.
The experience won't be the same.
(42:57):
We don't have dine-in.
We have some outdoor seats forpeople to sit when it's nice
outside.
Three, four top tables and alittle bistro table.
So it's not a lot of room.
But that pizza is not gettingany better.
In a box we use perfect crustpizza liners, which go inside of
every box that are kind of thiswaffled type of paper that the
pizza sits on.
That allows airflow to go underthere so it doesn't just sit in
(43:20):
its own moisture and just steamthe bottom of it.
So by the time you get it homeit's like a wet noodle.
So we do everything we can tomake that experience good when
you get it home, because you'remost likely taking it home to
eat it.
So you know we don't want torush anything.
We don't want to put somethingout until it's ready.
We want every pizza to to be,uh, you know, the highest
(43:41):
quality that we can make it.
So yeah, if this point, we'retesting.
So there's going to be moretesters right now.
On Fridays and Saturdays we openup for lunch and dinner, uh,
and we've been doing slices ofSicilian, so we'll make one or
two of those Sicilians and sellthem by the slice to allow
people to try them, and theamount of people that are still
calling every Friday andSaturday and, once they're gone
(44:03):
and sold out, that are stillasking for them is a great sign
that they're being well-received.
So we're really excited to getthe electrical work done and
start to tinker with that newlittle oven, which will allow us
to learn a lot, and if thatworks out in fact, then we've
got some real rearranging to do,Because we're under 600 square
feet.
Yes, I have a big oldwood-fired oven in the corner
(44:25):
and there's not a lot of realestate, but one day it would be
nice to have an oven similar topizza in there, to where we'd be
able to do a couple differentstyles at the same time and up
the amount of pizzas that we'redoing.
So Friday nights and Saturdaysand some Tuesdays don't get so
backed up with longer wait time.
Doug (44:41):
It's exciting.
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm just going to reel backagain as someone sitting here
watching you two and listeningto this.
You're talking about the typeof oven, Pete.
You're talking about the paper.
You guys are obsessed in thebest way.
And I have said this before, Idon't have the bandwidth for it,
but if somebody wants to createa pizza-only Pittsburgh podcast
, you can do it.
Patrick (45:02):
I mean, there's so much to talk about with pizza and
all of that sort of fine-tunedthings.
Pete (45:07):
Yes.
Doug (45:09):
What's your daily dough?
When you want to take dailydough to the next level.
Patrick (45:14):
There you go.
Pete (45:20):
Bring one pizza maker on like a Zoom and do your Daily
Dough.
Patrick (45:21):
I actually so I did that.
I promoted it, have an actualInstagram account called the
Daily Dough Show and started.
I did a couple interviews livestream.
Interviews about 15 minuteslike short, little compressed
podcasts.
Interviews about 15 minuteslike short, little compressed
podcasts.
I did one with my dear friend,tony Jarmita, who used to own
Talio Pizza in East Liberty,who's still a dear friend of
(45:42):
mine.
I got to cook with him a couplemonths ago when he was in town
at his dad's restaurant, LaTavola, up in Mount Washington.
Pete (45:49):
He recommended the mixer that I still use to this day,
and I love him for that.
Patrick (45:57):
Yeah, thank you, tony, I love you.
Tony's a g.
So actually, tony and I,something to look forward to is
a uh is possibly a live uh, duo,uh instagram with tony.
He just recently got a new uhgosney arc oven, which is a home
pizza makers oven, a littlehigher end, and I just upgraded
mine as well, because we'redoing a little more catering
over the summer months and sowe're gonna we want to cook
(46:18):
pizzas together, and he's inBrussels and I'm in lower
borough, so, uh, the only way todo that is going to be with
with the power of Instagram.
You can do it and uh, so we'regonna, we're gonna get together
and we're gonna live broadcast.
Uh, tony and I hanging outmaking some pizzas together and
hopefully sharing a few laughs,and so that's, that's what I'm
looking forward to.
Doug (46:39):
I'm looking forward to that, yeah yeah, that should be
fun why don't we give ourlisteners your social handles
and, as well, remind us of yourcurrent hours at the shop?
Patrick (46:51):
absolutely so.
Biggest thing we're closedSundays and Mondays.
I promised my kids when Iopened this place up that I was
going to be there a lot thatSunday was their day.
So we open for dinner servicefrom 3 to 8, tuesday, wednesday,
thursday and then from 11 to 8on Friday and Saturday.
So we do lunch and dinner thosetwo days.
Doug (47:10):
And you're located in Lower Borough.
Patrick (47:11):
Located in Lower Borough, at the corner of
Leachburg and Michigan, andwe're one block from Pizza Hut
in lower borough, at the cornerof leachburg and michigan, and
uh, we're one block from pizzahut.
So if you see a pizza hut, justfollow your nose to the smell
of uh, wood fire and you'll findus at the peak of the hill.
No, no, nobody out pizzas thehut, haven't you heard wow?
Doug (47:28):
wow, that is so retro nobody out pizzas.
Patrick (47:33):
I'm not trying to out pizza anybody, I'm just trying
to make a nice pizza at thecorner of Leachburg and Michigan
.
And Instagram, facebook, thoseare all the same.
Just at Gus Franco's pizzaFranco's with an S.
At Gus Franco's pizza.
The website is Gus Franco'spizzacom.
It'll take you to like a squareGus Franco's pizza site, don't
be afraid.
(47:53):
That's the real one.
I just refuse to pay their crazyuh hosting fees and I don't
think I don't have onlineordering, so I don't need it to
be crazy intuitive uh yet.
But uh, yeah, we're phone callor walk-in only on, uh, on on
tuesday, wednesday, thursday,it's generally about four, maybe
five pizzas every 10 minutes.
On friday, we're doing aroundsix average every 10 minutes, uh
(48:17):
, and and we're thumping inthere.
That allows us to not guesswhen your pizza is going to be
done, because we're not delivery, we're not, you know, we're
pickup only.
We don't have a ton of parkingspace, uh, so we want the
customers to come in and gettheir pizza as it's coming out
of the oven, like I want to.
I want it to be getting cutwhile they're paying so they get
it as fresh as possible.
That pizza doesn't get anybetter in a box, no matter what
(48:40):
high end products that we put inthere with it.
That pizza is not going to getany better.
So, but that allows us to notguess.
Uh, you know, I can alwaysremember, you know, ordering
pizza and they would say youknow, I have 25 minutes.
Depending on the night, it waseither 25 or 45 minutes, and
sometimes your pizza would besitting there for 20 minutes on
top of the oven Cause it gotdone way sooner than it was.
(49:00):
We don't do that, but it's notsome formal.
We still have people that, um,that think we're, you know, like
uh.
I always quote Braveheart whenuh William Wallace gets in front
of the army and he goes I'mWilliam Wallaceace and the guy
goes no, you're not.
You know, william wallace iseight foot tall and shoots uh
lightning bolts out of his arseor something like that.
So we have this stigma aroundus because when we opened it was
(49:23):
so busy that we would sellevery dough ball that we had
before we even opened.
They would all be claimed.
So if you didn't call, it waslike winning a radio show for
the first month.
It was insane the amount of uh.
I mean you would set the phoneback down and it would pick up.
We have two lines and you wouldjust tap it down and pick it
back up and there was a customeron the phone.
So we still have a stigma aroundus that people like they're
(49:43):
like I hear you got to callthree days ahead.
I got, you got to make areservation.
I'm like look, you don't haveto make a reservation, you don't
have to call three days.
You call when you, we'llprobably get you in within 40
minutes and it's not any crazyinclusive.
You know, like deal, here,we're a regular pizza shop.
We were just busy three and ahalf years ago and it got
(50:05):
written about in newspapers andnow everybody believes that they
can't do it.
So once or twice a week peopleare like, oh, this was really
easy.
And I'm like, what do peoplethink?
We are out there, you know whatI mean?
Like, like, we're just overhere making pizzas, hanging out.
Just give us a call or stop inand we'll get you a pizza.
So, uh, but that's how we breakdown our night and that's, uh,
that's the hours that we have.
We're only open what is that?
30 some hours a week, so it'snot a ton of time.
(50:28):
And, uh, I would open moreduring the week for lunch, but
we burn wood to keep that ovenhot and if it's not going on,
we're just in there, justwasting away wood.
And again the romantic side ofme like that wood serves a
purpose.
That wood was a tree thatsoaked in the energy from the
sun for years and years andyears and then blazes up in my
(50:49):
oven for 10 minutes and cookssomebody their food, like I feel
bad wasting that resource.
So at this point we don't openup for lunch, but we might at
some point gotcha yeah, pete.
Doug (51:01):
What about, uh, the hours at ironborn?
Pete (51:03):
I think they're close at both locations, right, yeah,
each restaurant's a little bitdifferent, but millvale is a
little bit easier.
Um, ironborn millvale is openevery day of the week, other
than major holidays or eventsthat we take off because we need
to have a team building event.
The Strip District is openevery day, but Tuesday Both
(51:24):
stores are open 11 to 9, on thedays they are serving food.
And then, of course, the StripDistrict has a bar as well as
five booths to sit in, has a baras well as five booths to sit
in and, uh, your handle isironborn pizza pretty much on
all the handles.
Patrick (51:44):
we don't really do facebook, and then I'm pizza
pete on instagram.
Oh, and I'm the pizza bear.
Doug (51:48):
I don't think I follow you as the pizza bear.
Yes, new information, right,guys?
It's been so great to talk withyou.
I have one more question forthe both of you.
The name of the show is thePittsburgh dish.
What's the best dish you havehad to eat this past week?
Patrick (52:08):
I feel like I'm ready for it.
So so once a month, myself andmy wife Mandy, uh Pete and his
wife Carrie and uh Eddie, eddiefrom Eddie's pizza and and his
wife carrie and uh eddie eddiefrom eddie's pizza, him and his
wife jen we get togethergenerally on the first uh monday
of the?
Uh of the month.
We uh we went to taipei in foxchapel uh last week and uh
(52:31):
gorged ourselves on some somelovely sushi and in a few other
dishes and uh, by far that wouldhave probably been the best
meal that I've had recently uhat the Taipei in Fox chapel with
some friends All right, bestbite.
Doug (52:47):
Yeah, pete, would you share this or do you have a
different best bite for the week?
Pete (52:51):
That is probably the correct answer, for sure, one
that we're looking forward to.
Actually, it's not one I ateyet, but we are going to see
Kevin Kahn, who's at ItalianVillage in Fox Chapel and he's
putting out some of the bestpizzas that I've seen on the
internet and I haven't been yet,so I'm really excited about it.
But my wife made a really goodshort brie, short rib
(53:15):
cauliflower gnocchi last night.
That was pretty good as well.
Home food's always good too,and it counts.
Patrick (53:22):
My wife made a great birthday cake for my son, Gus,
who turned eight years old onMemorial Day, and she did a
beautiful marshmallowbuttercream icing.
Doug (53:34):
And boy, I tell you what I wish I had a little bit of
power with that, I would go forthat any day of the week as well
.
Oh, those are some best bites.
Thank you both.
Absolutely All right.
Patrick Elston, pete Tolman,thank you both so much for being
on the Pittsburgh Dish.
Thanks for having us.
Patrick (53:51):
Oh God, yeah, Doug, it was great time.
We'll see you next week.
Same time.
We got more to talk about, Ithink we do.
Doug (53:58):
I don't run out of words.
I mean, if you watch the DailyDough.
Patrick (54:01):
I have to shut myself off sometimes, so we'll be here
next week.
It wasn't a bad drive.
The traffic on 28 was good andhe gave me a nice little water,
which is quite quenching.
Doug (54:11):
So thank you.
Doug for having me.
Thank you guys.
Thank you, I love it.
If you enjoyed the show,consider buying us a coffee for
this episode or supporting theshow monthly.
You can find links to thoseoptions at the bottom of our
show description and if you wantto follow my own food
adventures, you can find me onsocial media at Doug Cooking.
That's our show for this week.
(54:33):
No-transcript.
Welcome to The Pittsburgh Dish.
I'm your host, Doug Heilman.
What's your favorite style ofpizza or do you have that
special spot?
This week we sit down with twomaster pizza makers that have
not only crafted incrediblepizza and thriving businesses,
but also lasting friendships.
(00:23):
All that ahead, stay tuned.
Thank you, guys, so much forcoming over and for being on the
show.
Would you introduce yourselvesto our listeners and what you
have going on right now in theworld of food?
Patrick (00:41):
Sure, yes, I'll go first.
My name is Patrick Elston.
I co-own Gus Franco's Pizza inLower Borough with my wife,
Mandy.
It's a family-run establishment.
We do wood-fired pizzas.
We've been doing them in ourshop for just under four years.
Before that, we were a mobileunit traveling around town and
making wood-fired pizzas on theroad.
(01:02):
We liked that so much that weended up purchasing a building
and pursuing our pizza dream inLower Borough, which is not too
far from Pittsburgh for any ofyou guys out there.
Doug (01:11):
No, not at all.
I've been there, yeah.
And so, Patrick, I'm just doingmath real quick.
I don't think I knew you hadthe mobile unit.
So about seven or eight yearsnow total.
Patrick (01:21):
Yeah about.
Well, we started in 2018,taking years now total.
Yeah about.
Uh, well, we started in 2018,taking it pretty serious, bought
our trailer uh, sight unseenused from a gentleman in maine
and uh had it towed here.
We were saving up some money tobuy a camp at the time and
decided that the pizza thing wassomething that we wanted to try
.
So, instead of relaxing duringthe weekend, we uh now work
every weekend.
(01:41):
Yeah, but it's worth it.
We love it.
We absolutely fell in love withthe service side of things, the
hospitality side of things,making friends, making people
smile and they make us smileright back.
So it has been quite the ride.
It really, it truly has changedwho we are and everything about
our daily lives.
It's made me a much happierperson.
(02:02):
The service industry, inproviding things for people, has
really allowed me to open upand let the true me kind of come
out, and whatever is feelinggood is kind of just how we roll
with it at our place.
Doug (02:15):
I love that, Patrick.
Thank you so much, and sinceyou mentioned making friends,
let's introduce our other guest.
Pete (02:23):
Hi, my name is Pete Tolman .
I am the owner of IronbornPizza.
We have two locations One is inthe Strip District and the
other is in Millvale across theriver.
The thing that I'm kind ofexcited about right now is I was
featured in a book called thePursuit of Pizza as part of a
(02:44):
member of the World PizzaChampions, so it's pretty
exciting something I've neverdone.
It has our dough recipe inthere as well as our sauce, so
if you're interested in tryingto make it at home.
That's where you can find it.
Doug (02:57):
This is the newest thing for the Ironborn legacy.
Pete (03:00):
Yeah, correct.
So we opened in June of 2017 atSmallman Galley, yes, and then
we moved across the river toMillvale.
We closed the Smallman locationfrom there and then opened our
strip district location inDecember 2019.
Doug (03:18):
My goodness, I'm just doing quick math here too.
So you're coming up in June,you're coming up on an
anniversary, then Will that beeight years?
Pete (03:26):
I believe it's eight years .
Sometimes I'm except dates.
I'm pretty sure it was June2017.
Doug (03:33):
So we have two very different pizza styles in both
of your businesses, and if wehave some listeners out there
that haven't visited eitherlocation, let's describe to them
a little bit of what you'reserving up in terms of pizza
style, and I know there's moreon the menu, so I want to get to
that too.
Pete, I'll go back to you.
Will you tell listeners what isthe pizza that you guys are
(03:55):
dishing out?
Pete (03:56):
So we specialize in Detroit style pizza.
Detroit style pizza is kind ofpopular for a style of pan with
sloping shoulders, so it buildsthis cheddar cheese crust around
the outside.
It's a pan style pizza.
Doug (04:11):
It's amazing that crust is everything.
Pete (04:14):
That edge.
Yeah, there's somethingexciting about just that little
crispy corner that you want, butthe dough is light and airy.
Detroit style pizza also hassauce on top, so that's a little
different than some styles ofpizza, but it's just a really
good light, airy pan style pizzathat people really like.
Doug (04:33):
I had never experienced it before.
Until you opened in Smallman Idid not know about Detroit style
and that lacy edge it got mefor sure.
Pete (04:43):
Yeah, we were really fortunate to be one of the first
ones to do it and really triedour best to focus on the dough,
working on the procedures,making sure that we do it
consistently every day.
I love it.
Doug (04:56):
Patrick, back to you.
You mentioned to us that yougot this wood-fired oven.
How do you describe your pizzastyle at your shop, Gus Franco's
?
Patrick (05:05):
Yeah, so over the years our pizza style has adapted.
We were early days we focusedon a couple of different styles
when we were playing around withpizza at home.
I started getting some highertemperatures with a charcoal
grill actually that.
I got up in the mid-700s and Istarted to see some changes in
in how the dough was reacting,started to tinker around with
(05:28):
different types of flour and uhand and it was more of a
neapolitan kind of inspiredpizza at the time uh, we
referred to it as neo-neapolitan.
That was kind of the thecatchphrase at the time where
you were making a 12-inch round,you know semi-soft pizza that
had the leoparding around theoutside, and the more we did it,
(05:49):
the more I wanted to kind ofcrispify that pizza.
So I guess I refer to it thesedays as an American baker style
pizza we do a lot of.
I mean, our dough recipe isbasically a bread recipe in a
lot of ways, so I studied a lotof different bread styles and
fermentations and the deeper Iwent down that hole.
(06:10):
The changes that came along withthat journey have been really
cool and it changes all the time.
We've lowered our temperature alot that we bake at.
We're in the low to mid 700smost night.
Temperature-wise, on the top welike our floor to be around 600
degrees and that allows thatpizza to cook for about three,
three and a half minutes.
That makes that bottom crisp upjust enough to keep, uh, the
(06:33):
Pittsburgh crowd happy.
That's kind of used to thattype of pizza, but also allows
the crust to be delicate andlight and airy and with a nice
chew to it that just kind of uhis almost buttery in a way with
the fermentation.
So long story short, yeah,American baker kind of New
Yorkish wood-fired style pizza.
Doug (06:52):
Are you creating a whole new term, American baker style?
Patrick (06:55):
Let's do that, I've kind of seen people use that
term, and I like that because itis not a true Neapolitan style.
It is not a Roman Neapolitanstyle.
It is not a Roman style, itreally is.
Doug (07:07):
It's breaking from Italian traditions so much, because
you're really creating somethingthat doesn't fit in any box,
but it's relying on those roots,those roots of that traditional
type of wood-fired pizza thatgot us kind of there.
Patrick (07:23):
And then we, as the pizza scene in America, which is
outstanding, I mean it's uh,it's really truly fascinating to
see the growth of pizza in thetypes of different styles and
the regional styles.
Man, it's that's kind of wherewe're focused at right now,
although we do tinker on Tuesdaynights with Detroit style I'd
call it a grandma.
Detroit because it's about maybea third as thick as Pete's,
(07:44):
which is the true definition ofDetroit.
So ours is a little thinnerwith the cheese crust, and so we
do that on Tuesdays.
We're playing around with theSicilian.
Now we're getting some electricupgrades.
A gentleman named Steven thatworks for me has taken on the
Sicilian project and we've beenhaving some great results and
(08:05):
we're really excited to possiblybe releasing that on a limited
basis coming up.
But our bread and butter isstill the 12-inch round pie that
we sell every day.
Doug (08:13):
I love it.
You mentioned a couple ofthings and I just want to break
down for people out there.
I love educating people on somethings, so we have said Pete's
doing a Detroit-style Pete howthick is the typical Detroit
style crust.
Pete (08:27):
So the typical Detroit style crust I would call over an
inch high, but under an inchand a half.
So let's call it an inch and aquarter.
I would say that, ironborn, ifwe are docked anything against
Detroit style pizza, it'sbecause we lift it almost too
high pizza.
It's because we lift it almosttoo high.
So true, if you look at TrueBuddies or Cloverleaf, their
(08:48):
pizzas are generally just alittle bit shorter than mine.
Doug (08:51):
But once we started at Smallman, everybody kind of got
used to that tall lift and wejust couldn't take it away.
And what's the differencebetween that and then what we
would call a grandma style pie?
Grandmas are thinner.
Pete (09:04):
Grandmas are a little thinner.
There's no cheddar cheese crust.
It's in a grandma style pie.
Grandmas are thinner, grandmasare a little thinner.
There's no cheddar cheese crust.
It's in a different style pan,um, generally one you have at
home, so like a half sheet panright or a quarter sheet pan.
Doug (09:14):
Yeah, exactly this is what people could do at home,
because they probably don't havethe detroit style pan, unless
they use like a cake right yeah,you could either order a true
detroit style pan.
Pete (09:25):
But even if you use a cast iron, not a pot like a cast
iron saute pan right, exactly,or just take that half sheet pan
, oil it down.
Doug (09:35):
Take your favorite, come to one of our shops, get, get
dough off of one of us, tap itout and bake it off, you know we
want people to go to your shops, but pete is giving mad skills
on how to do some things at home.
I love this, yeah, even if it'slike giant eagle dough go ask
him for it, slap it into a pan,put your favorite sauce on it
and it'll turn out to be prettygood and so many people actually
(09:56):
will sell you their dough ifyou stop in yeah, absolutely one
more that patrick mentioned wasleopardized, and you mean the
spotty browning, leoparding,leoparding.
Patrick (10:09):
I love that At least that's the way I say it Well,
I've never heard that before.
Yeah, so yeah, when you getthose little dark spots all
along the crust in a pizzacooked at a higher temperature
and it doesn't have to be woodfired A lot of people consider
that a wood fired trait andthat's probably where they get
that flavor, where they thinkthe smoke is affecting it.
When you're running an ovenabove 700 degrees there's really
(10:30):
not a lot of smoke and whatsmoke there is is living up in
the ceiling of that oven.
So unless I pick that pizza upon purpose and put it in that
smoke, you're not getting a truesmoke flavor.
You're getting a char flavorfrom that high temperature.
That's making the leopard spotson that crust.
A lot of really good electricovens that are out there now.
(10:50):
Pete actually uses a pizza ovencalled a Pizza Master that can
reach temperatures the same asmy wood-fired oven can reach
over 900 degrees.
So you can take my dough and goto a place like Pete's and
crank that oven up and reallymake the same looking pizza that
you would in my shop.
I think the wood brings a lotof things to the table.
(11:15):
I think it's just a sexier wayto cook a pizza.
To be honest with you, I thinkit's every pizza that goes in
there.
I have to watch the entire time.
Every pizza is customized.
If I walk away from it for morethan 30 seconds, I have to make
a new pizza for somebody.
So it requires your fullattention.
There's no just popping it in,closing the door, coming back in
a couple minutes, spinning thatthing one time and going.
(11:35):
You're moving it from spot tospot.
Sometimes on a busy Fridaynight you're chasing heat that
floor.
If you think of every pizzathat goes into, that oven is
sucking heat out of that floorand you need to replenish that
as much as you can.
On a busy night there's nodowntime to really let that heat
pump back up.
So so it's six o'clock to eighto'clock on a Friday night.
If you come watch me cook,you're going to see a man in
(11:57):
motion.
Pete (11:57):
I mean cooking in that oven.
Patrick (11:59):
Literally, you are going, you're searching and
you're trying to.
In my oven, in my head, I havefive different spots in there
that I cook pieces on, so I'mtrying to only have three, maybe
four, in there at all times andthen having one spot that I'm
kind of letting recharge andthen I'll start to use it and
let another spot recharge.
So when you're trying to getthat top finished at the same
(12:21):
time that the bottom finishes,so that fire is always going to
be raging, you can keep loadinglogs in there and that top heat
is always there on demand whenyou want it, but the bottom heat
is really where you have toplay catch up sometimes.
That's what separates a lot ofpeople in the wood fired oven to
when they get gas.
We just had our floor replacedand there was this little corner
of the floor that had its ownlittle brick.
(12:43):
It was a solid floor except forthis little brick and I never
knew why.
Four years I never asked thequestion why that was.
So when they broke that floorout to put a new one in, I saw
that piece and I'm like what isthis?
And they said we put that inthere because so many people buy
a wood-fired oven and realizein a couple months how hard it
is and how intense it is.
(13:03):
I mean, it's you're in arelationship with that thing.
That's my second wife, to behonest with you like I mean you
have to understand and work witheach other and compromise like
there's it's.
It's insane, but they said thatlittle.
That plug allows them to popthat out of there, drill a hole
in the bottom and put a gas linein there to allow that gas
assist to kind of help regulatethat heat, because if you're
(13:25):
blasting too much, too little, Imean you're worried as much
about the fire in that oven asyou are the actual pizzas in it.
So it's quite a dance and it'sdefinitely something that I
still learn.
Every shift I work and makepizzas I learned something that
I shouldn't do or something thatI should do and just yeah, it's
(13:46):
an absolute.
So every day is a journey, butit's so worth it.
When they come out lookingpretty and I mean I have an art
degree.
I didn't go to college, I wentto a two-year art school and I
haven't been super creativeafter I graduated.
I never had a job in art, Inever got to use that to earn a
living.
But making these pizzas allowsme to create a little something,
(14:09):
you know, a whole bunch oftimes at night and then serve it
to somebody and get a reaction.
So I still get that, thatfeeling that I chased when I
would paint or when I wouldsketch something up.
So that allows uh it hits awhole bunch of uh feels with me
to uh to make a good pizza forsomebody.
Not only feeding somebodysomething that I consider fairly
healthy for something looked atas junk food, but to give them
(14:32):
something that we created withour hands, that we cared about,
that we put three or four daysinto that dough is super
satisfying, so it's the coolestthing I've ever done.
Doug (14:43):
I mean, all of that kind of goes back to and in fact you
said something that I willdisagree.
I don't usually disagree.
I don't think of pizza as junkfood well, yeah, it certainly
can.
Well, it can, I mean I've seensome of the loaded pies, but
like you are putting so muchcare in, like the flour and the
processing and the, I don't, Imean, I think it's a good
quality, it, yeah, and it it canbe, you know you get you know
(15:06):
and Pete will agree with me wethe further down the pizza
journey you get, you learnwhat's good and what's bad.
Patrick (15:14):
You learn that there's no need for bromated bleached
flours, like people are soconcerned.
Like bromate does a lot ofthings.
One thing it does is give moreoven spring to your dough.
So if you're using the sameamount of flour and you're
making one loaf of bread, that's100% its size, and if you don't
use that bromated, it might be80%.
(15:34):
So a lot of bakers are like,well, I want mine to be bigger,
I can get more money for it.
So they use bromated flours,which allows that, and they're
bleached.
You don't need that.
It's not even legal in certainstates around the world, like
they're banning bromated flowers.
So I know Pete usesnon-bromated and unbleached
flowers in his stuff, but noteverybody does.
(15:55):
I mean a lot of the.
You know the pizza shops thatare chain pizzas like the bigger
guys.
Bigger guys are, you know,probably.
You know their.
Their margins are really small,yeah, and they need to use
value products.
So they're probably using, youknow, things that are giving
bigger results.
And uh, and by no means am I adoctor, but the more you hear
(16:18):
about gluten intolerance andthings like that, I have a lot
of.
Personally, I have a lot ofcustomers that are gluten
sensitive not celiac, but glutensensitivities that can eat our
pizza because we're not usingflours that have that stuff in
them.
We're fermenting them properlyover time.
That allows that yeast to go inthere and break down all the
simple sugars and all the thingsthat are in there and kind of
(16:40):
do half the digestion for you.
So it's much easier on people'sguts and there's a lot of
places throughout Pittsburgh andin the United States that are
doing it that way, that aretrying to promote a bit of a
healthier way.
But I know, growing up like byno means if somebody in my
family was on a diet were theylike, oh yeah, we're eating good
tonight.
You know we're going to savesome calories and go grab a
(17:03):
pizza, you know what?
I mean.
So that's what I mean when Isay you know it's never.
You know it's kind ofconsidered junk food because you
sit down and you gorge yourselfon a greasy pie and do your
thing.
But yeah, the more people learnabout that and the more people
like that care, like Pete and abunch of other pizza makers
throughout the city and aroundthe world are trying to change
(17:25):
that.
Look on pizza.
I think yeah.
Doug (17:28):
Well, thank you for that.
Yeah, Pete, I want to come backto you too, because at Ironborn
, in the Strip District location, you're doing even more than
just pizza, right?
Pete (17:37):
Yeah, we have a full menu, full bar as well, 42 seats or
so, so you can dine in straightout of the oven, the great oven
that we were just talking about.
We make everything that we canthere other than like sliced
frozen chips, but we deep frythose and season them ourselves.
Doug (17:57):
Potato chips.
Pete (17:57):
Yeah, yes, house chips that's pretty much all we have
in the freezer.
But we make our own meatballsby hand.
We hand cut pasta.
It's usually like a one to twoaged, uh, drying process to kind
of firm up the noodles for aday, kind of set the shape of
the noodle.
Um, so you're making the noodlein-house?
Yep, yeah, we have a fullextruder, so everything's made
(18:17):
by hand and sliced right throughthe extruder.
Um, rigatoni spaghettiorecchiette extruder rigatoni
spaghetti orecchiette.
Doug (18:26):
Don't you have a bolognese on?
Pete (18:28):
the menu.
Doug (18:31):
Yep, we always have a bolognese marinara and then the
meatballs are really, reallypopular right now.
I also want to just add you notonly have ranch and hot sauce,
you bottle it yeah.
Pete (18:40):
That was one of my sous chef's ideas, or kitchen
managers.
I'm sorry, but he said hey,people love the ranch.
Why don't you just bottle iteight ounces at a time and sell
it?
Doug (18:49):
And you're making that in-house too right?
Pete (18:51):
Oh yeah, we make all our own dressings and everything
else as well.
Doug (18:55):
Let me ask, going back to the pizzas, maybe just right now
, what are some of the bangers,the ones that everyone that you
think you sell the most?
Pete (19:06):
So normally our most popular are the white pie, which
is a garlic cream, roastedtomato, caramelized onions,
ricotta, arugula, lemon oil andthen a little bit of Parmesan.
Or probably the spicy pie,which is hot soap, risotto,
house-made banana peppers, Isopepperoni.
Doug (19:27):
I love Iso pepperoni.
Oh, it cups beautifully right,it's so good.
Pete (19:31):
It chars up in the oven.
Yes, gives you everything youwant.
Pretty much, but uh, and thenpretty much from there, just
herbs and romano, but those areprobably our top two.
Okay, I'll be down later.
Doug (19:41):
yeah, we'll be open, I'll be there too.
I think the thing I love aboutthat pie is it has that sweet.
It has that little tang fromthe pickle, it's got it all.
Pete (19:53):
Yeah, sweet salty, a little bit of pickle to it.
It's really really good.
Doug (19:58):
Patrick, if we go to you and you think about the pizzas
you're slinging out right now,do you have a couple that are
the top movers right now forfolks?
Patrick (20:06):
Yeah, I mean over the years since 2018, we've been
making the hot dad pizza, whichis our version of, all the way
back, probably, to a placecalled Polly G's in New York
City.
The gentleman named Mike thatused to work for Polly developed
Mike's Hot Honey, which Peteand I are both big fans of and
we continue to use on a dailybasis.
(20:26):
He got the hat on yeah, it's mydaily driver up there, but uh,
so they make a they.
He made a pizza with hot, soprosada mike's hot honey on
their regular cheese pie thathas some, you know, mozzarella
blend and crushed tomatoes andsea salt and a little bit of
olive oil and parmesan on there.
So that pizza I always say thatthat our pizza shop is the.
(20:47):
You know it was built by the hotdad it was literally yeah,
that's, that's always been ournumber one seller.
What a great name.
And a couple years ago, uh, westarted.
I reached out to a chef in incalifornia named daniella uditi
that uh owns.
Uh, I don't I'm blanking on onthe name of his spot at the
(21:07):
moment, but he makes a cacioacioe pepe pizza and I reached out
to him and asked him for somepointers and asked if he minded
if I would make my version ofthat and with his blessing, we
started to.
We did that as one of our pizzamaker specials and it's super
creamy and delicious and it'sjust a seasoned heavy cream and
(21:27):
mozzarella base.
We cook it like that, we pullit out, we make a Parmesan cream
that gets piped on afterwardsand, as I tell the people that
work for me, I'm like put onfresh cracked black pepper till
you think it's enough and thenput a little bit more on there.
Yeah, because that's the shiningstar.
That pizza has become aneveryday pizza on our menu and
(21:49):
is slowly climbing the charts tochallenge the hot dad.
The most popular two-pizzaorder by far on a given night is
a cacio and a hot dad Wow.
Doug (22:01):
I kind of like that both of your locations have sort of a
white-style pie as a top seller.
That wouldn't have been a guessfor me.
Patrick (22:09):
We have a classic, we call it the Bianca, yeah, and it
has shaved, fresh shaved garlic, whipped ricotta, has cherry
tomatoes, a little bit of freshbasil, olive oil, sea salt and
parm and that and that isanother one that we always
surprises me, for whateverreason, that we just sell a ton
of that pizza.
That's likely.
(22:31):
Ton of that pizza, that's thatlikely is a little still higher
than the cacio pepe, but the thecacio is quickly.
It's catching up, it's clay, itis catching cacione up.
Doug (22:38):
So, uh, yeah, absolutely all right.
Guys, you've already droppedlike a ton of knowledge and
skill just by like what you'resaying, but I want to know a
little bit more about like yourbackground and how you became
like this.
Uh, pizziolo master, that youboth seem to be pete, why don't
we go back to you detroit stylelike in fact, I'll take you guys
(22:58):
a little further back is there?
Is there a pizza from like yourgrowing up?
That was like the pizza andthen it led you to the love of
pizza uh, to me there kind kindof is.
Pete (23:09):
I grew up in Kittanning Pennsylvania, oh.
Doug (23:12):
I know it.
Pete (23:12):
Oh, I know you do Serena's , I love Sirena's, so there's
something reminiscent to mypizza and Sirena's as a kid.
They're two different styles.
They really don't associate,but in my mind they do somehow.
Doug (23:27):
Sirena's pizza Serena pizza.
Pete (23:30):
Sirena's pizza sirena sirena's, I call it.
I have no idea, though it's inthe Franklin Village Mall in
Kittanning yep, I grew up maybehalf a mile or a mile from there
, so it's been open as long as Ican remember that whole plaza.
Doug (23:42):
I think opened in the 80s, so yeah I've had multiple
friends work there.
Pete (23:46):
I think it's changed hands a few times, but it's still
there.
And from there I went to IUPculinary school and then I
externed at Nemecolin Woodlands, probably stayed there four or
five years, worked my way up tothe five-star kitchen, went to
Chicago, worked at Alenia, whichis a three-star Michelin
(24:07):
restaurant.
Came back home worked for GiantEagle, worked up to Executive
Chef.
Doug (24:14):
I think Paul Abbott and Eric White have mentioned you.
Yes, exactly.
Pete (24:17):
Yeah, Paul and Eric I know very well.
From there, I went on a trip toTelluride, Colorado, which I
went to Brown Dog Pizza, JeffSmokovich, who is on the world
pizza champions.
We had friends that gave us aplace to stay, which was very
gracious of them, and they'relike you got to go to this pizza
(24:38):
shop.
You got to go to this pizzashop.
Doug (24:40):
I'm like really Telluride Colorado really small ski town.
Pete (24:44):
Um.
So I was snowboarding and thefriends were like you got to go
eat there.
So I was like I don't even knowwhat Detroit style pizza is
like.
Are we really going to be inColorado and go eat at a pizza
shop?
Um, I was.
I went there.
I was blown away, super excited, never tried anything like it
(25:05):
and I kind of said at the tablewhy is?
Doug (25:06):
nobody in Pittsburgh doing this right now.
Pete (25:07):
So from there I kind of worked on the recipe and I had
already known how to bake breadand learn my way through the
ropes of kitchens at that point.
Doug (25:15):
What year was that that you were in Telluride and
experienced Detroit-style pizzathere?
Pete (25:21):
I think it was 2016, because it was one full year.
I had to try out for SmallmanGalley and I was prepared at
that point and then, I think,like four months after that, we
opened my goodness, what atransformation yeah, it was a
wild year.
Patrick (25:36):
This is Pete Tolman with Ironborn Pizza and I'm
Patrick Elston with Gus Franco'spizza and you're listening to
The Pittsburgh Dish, patrick,what about you?
Doug (25:46):
you said you had had a different life before Gus Franco
.
Where did the pizza making andpizza learning start to happen
or come from?
Patrick (25:55):
So my early culinary training as well as my early
life pizza are intertwined.
My grandfather owned a dinerwith his brother for over 50
years in the city of NewKensington and downtown New
Kensington.
So at the age of eight or nineI would wash pots and pans in
the back to earn the right tocook my own burger and make my
(26:18):
own fries.
Oh my gosh.
So that's my formal training.
Pete (26:22):
What was their?
Patrick (26:22):
diner's name.
It was called Andy's Restaurant.
Doug (26:25):
Andy's.
Patrick (26:26):
Restaurant On Fifth Avenue.
I remember it on Fifth.
It spent some time in the 50sand 60s, I believe, on 9th
Street, New Kensington, and thenI grew up with it being on 5th
Avenue, New Kensington.
My whole family worked thereaunts, uncles, my mom.
So it was yeah, that was myearly culinary experience was
getting to cook some burgers andfries after I washed some pots
(26:46):
and pans.
Now next door was Egidio's.
Egidio's was the pizza that, ifwe were getting pizza, that's
what we got.
Because it was right next door,it was easy to grab.
This is your Sirena pizza.
Doug (26:57):
This is my Sirena pizza, right so?
Patrick (26:59):
Egidio's was in New Kensington on Fifth Avenue.
They were a staple there.
It was the first white pizza Iever had and I still wish I
could recreate that pie somehow.
It and, uh, and I still wish Icould recreate that pie somehow.
It was probably much moresimple than I'm that.
I'm trying to make it in myhead, but, uh, that pizza was,
was really great.
Had sliced red tomatoes on topof it, uh.
(27:19):
So, but my early pizza daysyeah, that was it.
Agitios was was my spot, uh.
And then throughout my life, uh, I I had a couple part-time
jobs.
When I would get laid off inthe winter time from a seasonal
job that I had, that I wouldcook at a local bar in New
Kensington called the Blind Pig.
I did that for a season makingsome simple stuff for them, but
(27:40):
it was mostly just cooking athome for my family with my wife.
The whole pizza thing startedbecause of my wife wanting to do
a pizza project, and then Istarted to get more interested
in it because it was like ascience project and for some
reason that intrigued me and, uh, and it kind of frustrated her
at the time.
So she was the more creativeside of flavors and whatnot, and
I was working on on buildingthat foundation.
Doug (28:01):
Yes, you also sparked another question, since you were
talking about your wife wantingto do this pizza project.
Can you share with our audience, uh, where the name of your
shop comes from?
Patrick (28:10):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Gus Franco's is nicknames wehave for our children.
Francis and August go by Gusand Franco.
Francis is named after mygrandfather who owned Andy's
restaurant with his brother,Fran Datris, and then August is
named after my wife'sgrandfather's, Augustine, known
(28:31):
as Gus Franco.
So when we were naming thepizza shop I was literally
trying to Pete and I he was alittle ahead of me but when I
was talking some names over inthe early days because I was
working with wood, I think itwas like steel brick, something
like that.
And then somebody was like Ithink there's a place called
Iron Something in Pittsburgh.
That's good and I'm like what?
Doug (28:52):
How dare?
Patrick (28:53):
they.
I'm going down there and givingthem a piece of my mind.
So my wife and I went toSmallman not to give them a
piece of my mind.
We were just down there wantingto eat and we ate the pizza and
I'm like, oh, they can havethis name, we're going to think
of something else if we end updoing this and then Gus sounded
way more pizza-y than PatrickElston pizza?
Doug (29:10):
It definitely does.
It sounds super Italian to me.
Patrick (29:13):
Half my customers call me Gus, and I don't mind it at
all.
Pete (29:16):
I called him Gus the first week I met him.
No joke.
Patrick (29:20):
Even Heather Abraham.
Sometimes I'll Talk Pittsburghlike you do PTL, and every now
and again she'll still slip upand call me Gus sometimes, and I
don't mind at all, because Gusis named after one of the
greatest people I've ever met inmy life.
He's the greatest kid.
You know both of my children.
I love them dearly and Icouldn't imagine it being named
(29:40):
anything else at this point.
So people can call me whateverthey want, as long as they come,
get a pizza every now and againand throw a smile our way like
we're doing all right.
Doug (29:50):
It totally works.
Yeah Well, now you have methinking.
Pete, I have to ask you wheredid the Ironborn name come from?
Pete (30:01):
So Ironborn is supposed to mean steel city.
born because I grew up inKittanning, Pennsylvania, so I
wanted a way to associate thesteel pans that we cook in.
We use a lot of steel tie-insin our ambiance in the
restaurant, let's call it.
And then we did happen to bewatching Game of Thrones and my
wife was smart enough to say whydon't you just name the
(30:22):
pizzeria Ironborn Pizza?
I was like, wow, that's such agreat name.
So I've told Patrick this story.
The original name for Ironbornwas going to be Baker's Table
Pizza and I'm very glad it's not.
Doug (30:37):
Ironborn is much better.
I love it.
Yes, I love how we come tothings.
This podcast was going to benamed something completely
different.
Pete (30:43):
That's a story for another day I was going to say you've
got to tell us now.
Patrick (30:47):
Pete has the best branding.
I mean he puts so much time,effort and thought and money
into his merchandise andbranding.
I mean Steven that works for meliterally half the time has an
Ironborn hat on because it's sosweet, it's great merch he has
great merch.
He has great everything abouthis branding I'm super jealous
of, so I just want that to beout there.
Pete (31:09):
My wife, Carrie, is a marketer so she, after we knew
Ironborn, I was like, wow, wecan do all these different
tie-ins and we used Top HatMarketing back in the day.
Currently we use Aaron Eastlerand he does a lot of the
t-shirts and the cool merch.
You're sporting one right now,right, so we made these really
(31:33):
cool pizza hats with a smallIronborn emblem that kind of
look old-timey.
Patrick (31:35):
That's the one I look at all day long Right.
Pete (31:37):
People love that hat.
Patrick (31:38):
So if you're looking for cool hats, they're at both
stores.
I did try to get a little merchrecently.
We got some stuff done, but byno means is it on that tier.
Doug (31:49):
Okay, you'll have to talk to Pete's wife.
Patrick (31:51):
No no.
Doug (31:51):
I like being the underdog anyway.
I don't know if I've asked thisquestion yet.
We've been going for a while.
How did you two meet and becomefriends, Patrick?
You just said you guys wentdown and had the pizza.
How did the friendship andcamaraderie happen?
Pete (32:07):
I want to say maybe Eddie I don't know, eddie, I don't
know it could have been eddie,uh, eddie from eddie's pizza 412
.
Doug (32:13):
Yes the instagram personality he has the most
excellent pizza maker uh,pepperoni roses is yes claim to
fame.
In my mind, that's that's hissignature.
Patrick (32:22):
Topping, no doubt, I think eddie probably introduced
us maybe in vegas.
Pete (32:27):
Uh, we go to las vegas each year for the Pizza Expo.
Doug (32:30):
Let's talk about that.
So Vegas has the World PizzaExpo International.
Pete (32:36):
Pizza Expo in Las Vegas every third week in March.
Doug (32:39):
How long have you two been going out to the Expo?
Pete (32:42):
I think I've been every year, except for my first year,
so probably six years, and youPatrick, I've been there four
times.
Patrick (32:50):
Yeah, I've been there, I think, four times.
And you, patrick, I've beenthere four times, yeah.
Doug (32:52):
I've been there, I think, four times, and you both have
come back with some recognitionlet's just say yeah, patrick,
most recently.
Recently, 2025.
What did you achieve?
Patrick (33:00):
Yeah, 2025,.
I competed in the traditionalcategory, which is generally the
first one to fill up.
It's the biggest fieldgenerally and has the best prize
money.
So I said, well, let's just gofor the Swing for it.
Yeah, let's go.
If we're doing it, we're doingit.
So that was the first one thatI ever competed in three years
ago and I came in somewhere inthe top 30.
(33:21):
So I was super proud of that.
The next year, I said let's trysomething a little different in
the non-traditional, and onejudge absolutely despised my
pizza.
That's all right, though.
I was super happy with it, uh,but this year I went back to
traditional.
I'm like look, this is my, thisis this is my wheelhouse, this
is what I make every day.
I'm gonna make our red saucecheese pie.
Uh, the traditional categoryonly allows you to use two of,
(33:44):
like, the most common type oftoppings, so you can do like
sausage, pepperoni, peppers,onions, mushrooms, stuff like
that.
So I made some, uh, somehouse-made pickled peppers and
and I use these, uh, pepperonias well.
Yes, I say iso sausage becausethey call it sausage for pizza,
uh, so I slip up, but it ispepperoni uh for you out there,
um, so we use that.
(34:04):
And, uh, we came in, uh, top 20and, but we did, uh, I, I came
in the best in the entirenortheast.
So I won the northeast region,which is all pennsylvania, new
jersey, new york, and, and allthe way up through the new
england states, the besttraditional, best traditional
pizza.
Doug (34:22):
Yeah, pizza, oh my goodness, in the northeast is uh
yeah, and I didn't even realizeit.
Patrick (34:27):
um, I was happy, you know, coming in the place, but I
figured somebody had to come inhigher than me from this region
Does this include New YorkIncludes New York.
Yeah, new York, new Jersey,connecticut, so New Haven's in
there.
So anybody that was competingfrom any one of those states, as
the kids say, you slayed it.
(34:47):
Yeah it was pretty cool.
So I didn't even know that Ihad won that.
And in the next day, uh, rico,who had an amazing trip out
there, rico Lunardi, from sliceon Broadway, sent me a text and
said you know, oh,congratulations, man, I can't
believe you won.
And I'm like I didn't winanything.
Like I came in you know top 20,I'm really happy with it.
And he sent me a picture ofthis like giant board that they
(35:09):
have there that showed me numberone.
He's like your last name's,elston, right.
And I'm like, oh my God.
I turned to my wife.
I'm like I won the Northeast.
Like this is crazy.
So that whole, yeah, that was apretty exciting stuff, but the
best thing about it, it truly.
I mean, I wasn't out there totry and take over the world and
claim to be the best of anything, but it validates my customers.
(35:32):
Like I don't advertise.
I don't have an advertisingbudget other than the crazy wrap
that I put on my van that Idrive around every day.
That's been my entireadvertising budget for the last
four years but it validates thepeople that continually tell
their friends and theirneighbors and their family to
come buy pizza off of us.
So it gives them a chance topuff out their chest a little
(35:55):
bit and say I told you, you knowwhat I mean.
Why haven't you gone there yet?
And it allows that word ofmouth, which we've been very
lucky to have, that the peoplethat, like us, are really
passionate about it.
I mean, I grew up playing inbands.
I was a front man for so manybands that nobody would ever
remember, but I loved being upthere on stage and I can
(36:18):
remember being young and likinga band and telling everybody
about it and then they got superpopular.
But it was nice to be able tosay I was one of the first ones
I told you about that band.
You know and we feel that wayabout our customers now that
they can kind of say, hey look,they got a little recognition
and you should go try it.
So it allows that grassrootskind of marketing thing to
(36:38):
continue to help us out.
Doug (36:40):
Well, I love that you're throwing it out to your
customers, but it's reallyvalidating your skills too.
When you were talking earlierabout the experimentation and
the best flower, it really alsogoes back to all the things
you're doing.
Patrick (36:50):
When it happens to you, it's so strange that it doesn't
feel like that, uh, but uh,yeah, it's, uh, it really yeah,
I mean the, the bigger part ofit that I get a kick out of.
I don't even like when peopleask me how it went.
I'm it's not the first thing Ibring up.
I generally usually somebodythat's working with me will say
oh, he won this, look at thatblack you that plaque, but it's
not something that I try tothrow out there and brag about,
(37:13):
because, again, I could havedone better and I plan on doing
better.
I got a little taste of alittle bit of success in there
and Pete has the same, I thinkyou won.
Doug (37:23):
Remind us, what else have you guys achieved with Ironborn
out at the Expo?
Pete (37:27):
So, just like Patrick getting first in Northeast in
the International Pizza Expo, Ialso I believe in 2019, again,
I'm bad with dates I got thirdoverall and first in Northeast
non-traditional pizza.
And then my GM won third placein the Caputo Cup in Atlantic
(37:49):
City, maybe the year after thatand then 2023.
I want to say she won first innortheast, third overall again.
So we've been third overallthree times and first in
northeast three times, but sarahhas the hot man shout out to
Sara Sara.
Doug (38:08):
Sara Boyer, yeah, okay, she's come up on the podcast
before.
Yeah.
Pete (38:12):
So she placed third this year.
Then they made everybodyre-compete, which was very
confusing.
Then she got fourth, so she gotknocked out, otherwise she
would have three.
Patrick (38:23):
Three third places in a row?
Doug (38:25):
Oh my goodness, well, still I mean, yeah, she's doing
great.
You guys are competing againsthow many other pizza locations
in the country, I have to say,like mad props, and I know that
there's a huge contingent ofPittsburghers that go out to the
expo.
We always come back with a lotof wins.
So thank you guys so much forrepresenting.
Patrick (38:44):
Yeah.
Doug (38:44):
Our pleasure.
I'd love to know, as we kind ofmove forward in your businesses
, do you guys have anythingcoming up in the near or long
term?
I know we're just past the expo, pete probably has more going
on than I do.
Pete (38:58):
So he should probably go first, are you?
Patrick (38:59):
doing Picklesburgh again.
Pete (39:01):
No oh never mind.
Yeah, we unfortunately aregoing through some staffing
issues.
So if anybody's searching for ajob and would love to come work
for a great staff, please callus.
But I had multiple managersleave for one reason or another
Everybody on good terms, whichis great, but just kind of lost
some heavy hitters there for asecond and we're ramping back up
(39:25):
.
But I wouldn't say Sara'stalking to me much about
Picklesburgh.
I wouldn't say Sara's talking tome much about Picklesburgh,
so I mean so just to reframethat, like Pete, you're in a
place where you are staffing upthe team just to do more at the
two locations right now.
Correct, yeah.
We have a brand new managerstarting in Millvale.
(39:46):
That's super excited right now,so we're hoping to revamp that
menu and freshen it up quite abit, all right, All steady and
good stuff.
Doug (39:51):
Thank you, Patrick, what about you?
Any events happening, any newthings happening for the shop?
Patrick (39:56):
Yeah, so I'm getting some electrical upgrades because
I purchased a small double deckelectric oven.
Oh, okay, this is going downthe Sicilian path that we were
talking about the Stephenproject, Sicilian path that we
were talking about the StephenProject.
And so once we get our amperageup from 100 service to 200
(40:17):
service, we're going to be ableto get those ovens cranking and
start to learn the way to cookthem in that oven.
We've been doing them in thewood-fired oven because that's
our one and only cooking utensilin the entire building.
So we've been doing theSicilians in there, but they're
much too big and they cook at alittle bit lower temperature
than our round pies, so it'stough to do them at the same
(40:39):
time.
So we're hoping to start tohave at least 10 to 15 Sicilians
available each day, which aregoing to be a 12 by 12 inch
thicker crust kind of a panfried super crispy bottom.
Doug (40:53):
Expanding the menu with this new oven, trying what?
Patrick (40:55):
kind of oven uh, it's, it's, uh, it's a advanco oven
which is a a a bit of a bargainbasement brand through uh,
through a webster on store,because, uh, if it doesn't work
out well, I didn't want tooverinvest.
Pete (41:13):
Is it just a standard?
Patrick (41:15):
It's a standard.
It has two 18-inch decks.
It's a double deck.
Top and bottom heat areseparate, kind of like the a la
Pizza Master.
So we'll be able to play aroundwith what the heat is coming
from the top, so the cheeseisn't getting overcooked or the
bottom's well done and whatnot.
So it is going to allow us toto practice and dial that in.
(41:35):
I do nothing very fast, I don'ttake a lot of risks that aren't
overthought a million timesslow and steady slow and steady,
and that's the way I do it too,yeah, I can't.
Uh.
So even like detroit's, westill only do detroit pies,
quote unquote, detroit inspiredpies, uh, on tuesdays, because
we just don't have the time,energy and and to do it every
(41:58):
day you don't want to disappointthe people that are coming back
, you're like this is anexperiment.
Doug (42:02):
This isn't something we're ready to weave in all the time.
Pete (42:04):
But he also doesn't roll it out until he's totally
confident that he's happy withit.
Doug (42:07):
That's right, right I think slow and steady for both
shops success.
You guys have both been aroundwell over seven years now, going
strong.
Patrick (42:16):
Everyone loves it, I mean it's not I, I'd like making
.
I like earning a living makingpizza, but I'm not just doing it
to make as much as I can in theshortest amount of time which
right which would make me rushthings and make me put out
product.
I mean I I can't even imaginehow much more money I would have
made if I allowed people toorder extra cheese on a on our
one or a round pizza.
(42:37):
I mean every other person untilthey kind of learned that we
don't do that would would getextra cheese.
So the amount I mean just inextra cheese, it w ould have
been.
But I know that extra cheese onour pizza does not cook
properly by the time that crustis starting to Brown and be
ready to go.
All that cheese pot up andthere's still going to be raw on
the bottom side, the middle ofthe pizza is going to be soggy.
The experience won't be the same.
(42:57):
We don't have dine-in.
We have some outdoor seats forpeople to sit when it's nice
outside.
Three, four top tables and alittle bistro table.
So it's not a lot of room.
But that pizza is not gettingany better.
In a box we use perfect crustpizza liners, which go inside of
every box that are kind of thiswaffled type of paper that the
pizza sits on.
That allows airflow to go underthere so it doesn't just sit in
(43:20):
its own moisture and just steamthe bottom of it.
So by the time you get it homeit's like a wet noodle.
So we do everything we can tomake that experience good when
you get it home, because you'remost likely taking it home to
eat it.
So you know we don't want torush anything.
We don't want to put somethingout until it's ready.
We want every pizza to to be,uh, you know, the highest
(43:41):
quality that we can make it.
So yeah, if this point, we'retesting.
So there's going to be moretesters right now.
On Fridays and Saturdays we openup for lunch and dinner, uh,
and we've been doing slices ofSicilian, so we'll make one or
two of those Sicilians and sellthem by the slice to allow
people to try them, and theamount of people that are still
calling every Friday andSaturday and, once they're gone
(44:03):
and sold out, that are stillasking for them is a great sign
that they're being well-received.
So we're really excited to getthe electrical work done and
start to tinker with that newlittle oven, which will allow us
to learn a lot, and if thatworks out in fact, then we've
got some real rearranging to do,Because we're under 600 square
feet.
Yes, I have a big oldwood-fired oven in the corner
(44:25):
and there's not a lot of realestate, but one day it would be
nice to have an oven similar topizza in there, to where we'd be
able to do a couple differentstyles at the same time and up
the amount of pizzas that we'redoing.
So Friday nights and Saturdaysand some Tuesdays don't get so
backed up with longer wait time.
Doug (44:41):
It's exciting.
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm just going to reel backagain as someone sitting here
watching you two and listeningto this.
You're talking about the typeof oven, Pete.
You're talking about the paper.
You guys are obsessed in thebest way.
And I have said this before, Idon't have the bandwidth for it,
but if somebody wants to createa pizza-only Pittsburgh podcast
, you can do it.
Patrick (45:02):
I mean, there's so much to talk about with pizza and
all of that sort of fine-tunedthings.
Pete (45:07):
Yes.
Doug (45:09):
What's your daily dough?
When you want to take dailydough to the next level.
Patrick (45:14):
There you go.
Pete (45:20):
Bring one pizza maker on like a Zoom and do your Daily
Dough.
Patrick (45:21):
I actually so I did that.
I promoted it, have an actualInstagram account called the
Daily Dough Show and started.
I did a couple interviews livestream.
Interviews about 15 minuteslike short, little compressed
podcasts.
Interviews about 15 minuteslike short, little compressed
podcasts.
I did one with my dear friend,tony Jarmita, who used to own
Talio Pizza in East Liberty,who's still a dear friend of
(45:42):
mine.
I got to cook with him a couplemonths ago when he was in town
at his dad's restaurant, LaTavola, up in Mount Washington.
Pete (45:49):
He recommended the mixer that I still use to this day,
and I love him for that.
Patrick (45:57):
Yeah, thank you, tony, I love you.
Tony's a g.
So actually, tony and I,something to look forward to is
a uh is possibly a live uh, duo,uh instagram with tony.
He just recently got a new uhgosney arc oven, which is a home
pizza makers oven, a littlehigher end, and I just upgraded
mine as well, because we'redoing a little more catering
over the summer months and sowe're gonna we want to cook
(46:18):
pizzas together, and he's inBrussels and I'm in lower
borough, so, uh, the only way todo that is going to be with
with the power of Instagram.
You can do it and uh, so we'regonna, we're gonna get together
and we're gonna live broadcast.
Uh, tony and I hanging outmaking some pizzas together and
hopefully sharing a few laughs,and so that's, that's what I'm
looking forward to.
Doug (46:39):
I'm looking forward to that, yeah yeah, that should be
fun why don't we give ourlisteners your social handles
and, as well, remind us of yourcurrent hours at the shop?
Patrick (46:51):
absolutely so.
Biggest thing we're closedSundays and Mondays.
I promised my kids when Iopened this place up that I was
going to be there a lot thatSunday was their day.
So we open for dinner servicefrom 3 to 8, tuesday, wednesday,
thursday and then from 11 to 8on Friday and Saturday.
So we do lunch and dinner thosetwo days.
Doug (47:10):
And you're located in Lower Borough.
Patrick (47:11):
Located in Lower Borough, at the corner of
Leachburg and Michigan, andwe're one block from Pizza Hut
in lower borough, at the cornerof leachburg and michigan, and
uh, we're one block from pizzahut.
So if you see a pizza hut, justfollow your nose to the smell
of uh, wood fire and you'll findus at the peak of the hill.
No, no, nobody out pizzas thehut, haven't you heard wow?
Doug (47:28):
wow, that is so retro nobody out pizzas.
Patrick (47:33):
I'm not trying to out pizza anybody, I'm just trying
to make a nice pizza at thecorner of Leachburg and Michigan
.
And Instagram, facebook, thoseare all the same.
Just at Gus Franco's pizzaFranco's with an S.
At Gus Franco's pizza.
The website is Gus Franco'spizzacom.
It'll take you to like a squareGus Franco's pizza site, don't
be afraid.
(47:53):
That's the real one.
I just refuse to pay their crazyuh hosting fees and I don't
think I don't have onlineordering, so I don't need it to
be crazy intuitive uh yet.
But uh, yeah, we're phone callor walk-in only on, uh, on on
tuesday, wednesday, thursday,it's generally about four, maybe
five pizzas every 10 minutes.
On friday, we're doing aroundsix average every 10 minutes, uh
(48:17):
, and and we're thumping inthere.
That allows us to not guesswhen your pizza is going to be
done, because we're not delivery, we're not, you know, we're
pickup only.
We don't have a ton of parkingspace, uh, so we want the
customers to come in and gettheir pizza as it's coming out
of the oven, like I want to.
I want it to be getting cutwhile they're paying so they get
it as fresh as possible.
That pizza doesn't get anybetter in a box, no matter what
(48:40):
high end products that we put inthere with it.
That pizza is not going to getany better.
So, but that allows us to notguess.
Uh, you know, I can alwaysremember, you know, ordering
pizza and they would say youknow, I have 25 minutes.
Depending on the night, it waseither 25 or 45 minutes, and
sometimes your pizza would besitting there for 20 minutes on
top of the oven Cause it gotdone way sooner than it was.
(49:00):
We don't do that, but it's notsome formal.
We still have people that, um,that think we're, you know, like
uh.
I always quote Braveheart whenuh William Wallace gets in front
of the army and he goes I'mWilliam Wallaceace and the guy
goes no, you're not.
You know, william wallace iseight foot tall and shoots uh
lightning bolts out of his arseor something like that.
So we have this stigma aroundus because when we opened it was
(49:23):
so busy that we would sellevery dough ball that we had
before we even opened.
They would all be claimed.
So if you didn't call, it waslike winning a radio show for
the first month.
It was insane the amount of uh.
I mean you would set the phoneback down and it would pick up.
We have two lines and you wouldjust tap it down and pick it
back up and there was a customeron the phone.
So we still have a stigma aroundus that people like they're
(49:43):
like I hear you got to callthree days ahead.
I got, you got to make areservation.
I'm like look, you don't haveto make a reservation, you don't
have to call three days.
You call when you, we'llprobably get you in within 40
minutes and it's not any crazyinclusive.
You know, like deal, here,we're a regular pizza shop.
We were just busy three and ahalf years ago and it got
(50:05):
written about in newspapers andnow everybody believes that they
can't do it.
So once or twice a week peopleare like, oh, this was really
easy.
And I'm like, what do peoplethink?
We are out there, you know whatI mean?
Like, like, we're just overhere making pizzas, hanging out.
Just give us a call or stop inand we'll get you a pizza.
So, uh, but that's how we breakdown our night and that's, uh,
that's the hours that we have.
We're only open what is that?
30 some hours a week, so it'snot a ton of time.
(50:28):
And, uh, I would open moreduring the week for lunch, but
we burn wood to keep that ovenhot and if it's not going on,
we're just in there, justwasting away wood.
And again the romantic side ofme like that wood serves a
purpose.
That wood was a tree thatsoaked in the energy from the
sun for years and years andyears and then blazes up in my
(50:49):
oven for 10 minutes and cookssomebody their food, like I feel
bad wasting that resource.
So at this point we don't openup for lunch, but we might at
some point gotcha yeah, pete.
Doug (51:01):
What about, uh, the hours at ironborn?
Pete (51:03):
I think they're close at both locations, right, yeah,
each restaurant's a little bitdifferent, but millvale is a
little bit easier.
Um, ironborn millvale is openevery day of the week, other
than major holidays or eventsthat we take off because we need
to have a team building event.
The Strip District is openevery day, but Tuesday Both
(51:24):
stores are open 11 to 9, on thedays they are serving food.
And then, of course, the StripDistrict has a bar as well as
five booths to sit in, has a baras well as five booths to sit
in and, uh, your handle isironborn pizza pretty much on
all the handles.
Patrick (51:44):
we don't really do facebook, and then I'm pizza
pete on instagram.
Oh, and I'm the pizza bear.
Doug (51:48):
I don't think I follow you as the pizza bear.
Yes, new information, right,guys?
It's been so great to talk withyou.
I have one more question forthe both of you.
The name of the show is thePittsburgh dish.
What's the best dish you havehad to eat this past week?
Patrick (52:08):
I feel like I'm ready for it.
So so once a month, myself andmy wife Mandy, uh Pete and his
wife Carrie and uh Eddie, eddiefrom Eddie's pizza and and his
wife carrie and uh eddie eddiefrom eddie's pizza, him and his
wife jen we get togethergenerally on the first uh monday
of the?
Uh of the month.
We uh we went to taipei in foxchapel uh last week and uh
(52:31):
gorged ourselves on some somelovely sushi and in a few other
dishes and uh, by far that wouldhave probably been the best
meal that I've had recently uhat the Taipei in Fox chapel with
some friends All right, bestbite.
Doug (52:47):
Yeah, pete, would you share this or do you have a
different best bite for the week?
Pete (52:51):
That is probably the correct answer, for sure, one
that we're looking forward to.
Actually, it's not one I ateyet, but we are going to see
Kevin Kahn, who's at ItalianVillage in Fox Chapel and he's
putting out some of the bestpizzas that I've seen on the
internet and I haven't been yet,so I'm really excited about it.
But my wife made a really goodshort brie, short rib
(53:15):
cauliflower gnocchi last night.
That was pretty good as well.
Home food's always good too,and it counts.
Patrick (53:22):
My wife made a great birthday cake for my son, Gus,
who turned eight years old onMemorial Day, and she did a
beautiful marshmallowbuttercream icing.
Doug (53:34):
And boy, I tell you what I wish I had a little bit of
power with that, I would go forthat any day of the week as well
.
Oh, those are some best bites.
Thank you both.
Absolutely All right.
Patrick Elston, pete Tolman,thank you both so much for being
on the Pittsburgh Dish.
Thanks for having us.
Patrick (53:51):
Oh God, yeah, Doug, it was great time.
We'll see you next week.
Same time.
We got more to talk about, Ithink we do.
Doug (53:58):
I don't run out of words.
I mean, if you watch the DailyDough.
Patrick (54:01):
I have to shut myself off sometimes, so we'll be here
next week.
It wasn't a bad drive.
The traffic on 28 was good andhe gave me a nice little water,
which is quite quenching.
Doug (54:11):
So thank you.
Doug for having me.
Thank you guys.
Thank you, I love it.
If you enjoyed the show,consider buying us a coffee for
this episode or supporting theshow monthly.
You can find links to thoseoptions at the bottom of our
show description and if you wantto follow my own food
adventures, you can find me onsocial media at Doug Cooking.
That's our show for this week.
(54:33):
No-transcript.
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