January 8, 2024 • 33 mins
"The doctor said if you pursue diet to treat this you’ll be dead in a year. I said okay I need to find someone else."
George, a 64 year old man who took pride in his health, was blindsided by a devastating cancer diagnosis after a nagging cough. He had grey zone lymphoma, a rare cancer. After doing some research George knew he was not interested in the traditional route. I'm honored to share George's candid discussion about his journey from confusion to clarity, and how a website called "Chris Beat Cancer" influenced his decision to combine conventional treatments with holistic dietary strategies. We step into the world of plant-based nutrition and its impact on his cancer treatment. George walks us through his dietary evolution as well as his lifelong, unwavering commitment to exercise in order to combat this disease. This conversation serves as inspiration for those of you out their trying to make their way through health challenges with diet and lifestyle at the helm.
Resources from this Episode:
Chris Beat Cancer
Essential Health and Wellness
John Robbins
Dr. Mark Hyman
Dr. Michael Greger
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Plant-Centered and Thriving
Podcast.
I'm your host, ashley Kitchens.
I'm a plant-based registereddietitian and virtual nutrition
mentor.
I was raised on an Angus CattleFarm, grew up with a lot of GI
issues and used the power ofplant-based eating to promote
healing.
Here you'll find inspiration,ideas and encouragement for your
(00:23):
own plant-based journey.
I'm so thrilled you're heretoday.
Let's get started.
Welcome to the showPlant-Centered Listener.
My name is Ashley and I am yourhost today.
Imagine being a what you thinkis a healthy and fit person.
You've pursued health,nutrition, fitness for years and
(00:44):
then, all of a sudden, you'rein the doctor's office being
diagnosed with gray zonelymphoma.
This is exactly what happenedto our guest today, about a year
ago now, and this is a story ofGeorge, who grew up in the New
York area before moving toDurham to go to Duke.
He falls in love with NorthCarolina, he never leaves.
(01:05):
He and his wife raise fourchildren and they now have nine
grandchildren.
George has a financial planningpractice here in Durham with his
partner, joe, and in additionto all that, he's pursued, like
I said, health and fitness foryears.
So it came as quite the shockwhen he was diagnosed with
(01:26):
lymphoma, along with traditionalmedical protocol of
chemotherapy, george ends uppursuing a strict plan of action
, including diet and exercise,to eliminate the cancer and
mitigate the effects of thechemotherapy.
This story all is incredible,and this is George's unique
(01:49):
perspective that he shares withyou, and I cannot wait for you
to hear it as well.
Please join me in welcoming tothe show, george.
I just kind of want to start atthe beginning with your story,
george, and kind of take us backto how everything started.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Sure.
So I guess it started in early2022 when I got COVID and I
thought that I eventuallydeveloped long COVID.
So for starting in the springof 22, all the way through the
fall I had this lingering,annoying cough.
(02:27):
And it wasn't until in the fall, the late fall of 22, that I
noticed a hard lump in my neckand I pointed it out to my
doctor and he got very alarmed.
With the exam.
(02:48):
It was obviously a swollenlymph node and we immediately
did some bloods and I hadelevated inflammation markers
and so he suggested biopsies.
And that was a long, rocky road, to be honest, because the
(03:08):
needle biopsy didn't showanything.
So then we did a more invasivesurgical biopsy.
It wasn't conclusive.
We had to do a third biopsy atDuke, and it wasn't entirely
conclusive either.
I engaged an oncologist who waskind of out of the system, kind
(03:29):
of wanted a third partyreference, and she said listen,
I think this is so unusual, weneed to take your biopsy and
send it to the NationalInstitute of Health where Dr
Jeffries, who is a well-knownpathologist, can take a look at
(03:53):
it.
And she did.
And she came back and said youhave lymphoma, but it's not
Hodgkins and it's notnon-Hodgkins, it's this rare
version called Greyzone.
So I had Greyzone lymphoma.
I interviewed the lymphomaspecialist at Duke.
(04:16):
Frankly did not really like herbedside manner.
I talked a lot about diet andshe didn't really want to hear
about it.
She just said if you pursuediet to treat this, you'll be
dead in a month, in a year.
Okay, you'll be dead in a year.
And she was just so very matterof fact and frank and just
(04:38):
didn't believe it in it.
It was obvious.
I just said, okay, well, I needto look at someone else.
And so I went to UNC, foundanother oncologist who, although
she didn't seem verywell-versed in diet as a
treatment or kind of a strongsupplement to traditional
(05:01):
medicine, she was certainly moreopen to it and not so
antagonistic.
So that's where I ended upgoing for the traditional
approach to treating cancer.
You're not going to besurprised.
It's chemo and maybe radiationand whatever else.
(05:22):
So I should take one step backand say that between all these
biopsies and consultations andall that stuff, I went to a
website called Chris Beat Cancer.
A friend had recommended this.
This is a man named Chris Warkeand Chris, at 26, got colon
(05:47):
cancer and pursued a holisticapproach to treating cancer.
So it's food, it's meditation,it's exercise, it's community
all the things that we know froma holistic point of view are
great medicine.
(06:07):
It's really about food asmedicine primarily, and so I
dove in with both feet tounderstand his protocol and
follow his steps.
He has about a dozen videoswhere he goes into great depth
about all of those ways ofaddressing cancer, all kinds of
(06:29):
cancer.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
When you saw your first oncologist?
Was this kind of the approachthat you had in mind?
Had you already been introducedto it?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yes, and she just kind of treated it like you know
, well, that's all well and good, but you really need to do this
with strong chemotherapy.
Yeah, that was her approach.
And I said, well, isn'tchemotherapy toxic?
Yeah, and isn't it carcinogenic?
(07:00):
The actual therapy?
Well, yeah, it might be, butyou know you're going to die
without it, so you need it.
It's very effective.
And you know it is hard toargue that for lymphoma.
Anyhow, the data is out there.
You know they can.
They've tested this clinically.
It's got something like a 75%or better chance of curing
(07:27):
lymphoma.
So it's hard to argue that youshouldn't do that.
And you know, when I had theconversation with my wife and
kids you know my adult kids theywere all like you know, you got
to do that, dad.
You know the diet just scaresus too much.
You can't just do that.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Sure, yes, yeah, and it sounds like you ended up
going down the path of botheventually.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Exactly.
That's right, that's right.
I actually had a chance topursue the diet protocol for
about two months before Ilaunched into the chemo.
Some of that had to do withinsurance coverage and I changed
insurance and so we needed alittle bit of time, but in that
time the tumor in my neck wentdown substantially.
(08:15):
I felt great energy.
I started to feel better.
By the way, I should say, I didhave this, what they call
medial steinal B cell lymphoma.
So it wasn't just in my neck,it was also.
There was a large mass behindmy sternum, and it really could
have been life-threatening ifwe'd let it.
You know, continue on?
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean I'm feeling too kind ofgetting these biopsies done and
it keeps coming backinconclusive, and then you know
it's being shipped off to thisother doctor.
I mean, how are you kind offeeling that time that's a lot
of waiting time trying to figureout what is going on with you
and your health?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
It is, and that was probably the toughest time
through the whole journey wasjust kind of figuring out what
on earth is this really and howdo we treat it, and you know
what's the prognosis.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
all that yeah, yeah, you're right.
So a couple months before youeven started chemo, you started
this approach that Chris highlyrecommends, that he used himself
, and it sounds like your tumoralready started shrinking a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
It did, it did, it was very clear.
Of course the doctor said oh no, you're just losing weight and
you know you're leaving moreroom for the tumor to feel
better.
It doesn't feel so tight inyour neck.
They just they don't want tobelieve that you can address it
this way.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah, which I'll say, george.
It's so frustrating to hearthat, because there's so much
evidence that shows howimpactful diet can be on a
variety of different healthconditions.
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
And doctors aren't trained this way.
You know they get theirtraining largely from the
pharmaceutical industry.
Big farm, you know, pays forthe studies, pays for their
information that they aretrained on.
Trained on right.
So, that's why doctors have twomajor tools on their tool belt.
(10:09):
Right Is surgery.
Surgery than there is 30% ofthe whole world cutting.
Or it's medication.
It's not diet, sleep andexercise and meditation.
They're not going to tell youthat, they're not going to
prescribe that.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Right, which is what you were practicing the two
months right leading up to yourchemo.
I am curious, and it'sunfortunate, that people like
Chris kind of get pushed asideand it's like, oh, that person's
quote crazy, or they're kind ofa whack or something.
But I know we kind of talkedoffline that Chris has a ton of
testimonials of people who havefollowed his program and of
course it's very important, ifyou're listening to this, to
(10:41):
kind of do your own research anddo what's best for you, because
by no means is this medicaladvice.
We're just kind of sharing ourown stories of what our yeah,
our opinions are here, but couldyou kind of explain what you
were doing those two monthsleading up to getting your chemo
, absolutely absolutely Up toand throughout the chemo.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
I should say this is a good at least six to eight
months of this protocol and it'sreally pretty simple.
You eat two enormous he callsthem cancer-beating salads a day
, and you can augment that laterwith things like oatmeal and
(11:20):
I'll get into that and juicing.
So it's basically 40 to 60ounces of root juices every day,
and then I also would have agreen lemonade, which is
basically an organic lemon, andfour green apples and or at
(11:42):
least that ratio in the juicer.
So you're drinking that everyday.
A smoothie every day which isbasically organic cherries and
strawberries, a banana and anorganic lemon.
I would add to that cranberry, afreeze-dried cranberry powder,
and amla, and amla is actuallyknown as a gooseberry.
(12:07):
It's widely used in India andin avaretic medicine, where they
use that powder Because it'sthe one fruit on earth that has
the most antioxidants on theplanet.
But it's very bitter, so it'sbest used in things like
(12:29):
smoothies.
So I was doing that every dayand certainly just all the raw
vegetables in smoothies for 90days, and then after that I
started to introduce some cookedvegetables as well.
So the salads would havebroccoli, sprouts, leafy greens,
(12:49):
carrots, tomatoes.
Anything that I wanted on thesalad really was fine Sourcrout
because you want fermentedthings in your diet every day to
try to replace the gut systemthat you're destroying with
chemo.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
So I know that you mentioned George eating a lot of
salads.
You're pressing a lot of fruitsand vegetables and making
juices and smoothies, and youalso mentioned cooked vegetables
as well.
How did that play a role intoyour diet?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yes, so I was really all raw for the first 90 days.
But that does get old and aftera while you do want to have
cooked foods.
So I would pretty consistentlyroast cauliflower, roast
broccoli, asparagus.
I actually went to aacupuncturist every week and she
(13:39):
was terrific helping me kind ofsupport my liver and detox.
But she also said eat asparagusevery day if you can.
In Eastern medicine that'sconsidered a superfood, so I
roasted a lot of asparagus.
I ate that.
My wife is from Portugal and soshe would routinely make me
(14:02):
these vegan soups, which isbasically zucchini, some potato,
garlic, onion, leeks, spinach,all those kinds of things.
So I would routinely have thesevegan soups.
So I did kind of go to somecooked foods later on.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
So a lot of plants.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
it sounds like A lot of plants and, by the way, you
don't eat any animal products.
And he goes into great depthexplaining the carcinogenic
effects of animal products andall the things that are in them.
I mean, even if you're eatingorganic animal products, there's
(14:44):
all kinds of reasons not to be.
That was a little bit easierfor me because in the fall of
2021, I was bit by a tick andgot alpha-gal.
That's right.
Are you familiar?
(15:04):
Do you know other people withalpha-gal?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, I do.
I've met several yes.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah, so for folks listening who aren't in the
southeast of the United States,this is becoming a real issue
for us in the south.
If you get bit by the Lone Startick, you have this autoimmune
reaction to mammal.
So I actually went to the ERafter eating a steak.
(15:31):
I broke out in highs, terriblehighs, and they were worried I
was going to have ananaphylactic reaction.
I didn't, because they gave mesteroids and all that, but from
so it's been a couple of yearsnow that I was off of all mammal
anyhow.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yes, wait.
So what was the timeline?
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Did you get bit by the tick first, remind me that's
right Fall of 2021, got COVIDin spring of 2022, discovered
the lymphoma by February of 2023.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Wow, oh my goodness, george, yeah, wow.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
It sounds like too, following this program, it was
probably, I'm assuming, a littlebit different than maybe the
lifestyle that you werefollowing previously, with your
diet at least.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
That's right.
Yeah, that's right.
I had been exercising for yearsand I didn't let that drop.
So five days a week I was doingsome kind of high intensity
exercise throughout the cancertreatment.
So I was boxing twice a weekand lifting weights with a
(16:47):
personal trainer the other threedays.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
And this was during your chemotherapy.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I actually feel like the reasonI felt good enough to do that
was because I was overdosing onnutrients.
I was feeding my body all thethings it needed, and that kept
my energy level.
I occasionally needed to stopin the afternoon and take an app
(17:14):
, but that's about it.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Wow, I like that term toooverdosing on nutrients.
I think that's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, yeah, that's kind of Chris's mantra.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Okay, all right.
Yeah that's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
The other thing I wanted to mention was that I
worked out five days a week, butthat's not for everybody.
Some people just get hit harderby the chemo and they just
don't have the energy to do allthat.
For those folks, I think ifthey can just get up and take a
walk, if it's 10 minutes tostart, great.
If they can get out 20 or 30minutes and walk around in the
(17:49):
neighborhood, that's critical.
Movement is life, and if youcan get moving, that's going to
do your world a good, no matterwhat it is.
Yeah definitely.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
I would imagine you had to learn some new skills,
because I imagine you weren'tjuicing every day like you were
before that, right?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Oh my gosh, it felt like a full-time job because I
was going to Whole Foods mostevery day, storing up all kinds
of fresh organic fruits andveggies and then preparing it.
You're right, it did take sometime, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Yeah, how was that transitioned to?
How did your body adjust thoseinitial few days, or maybe even
few weeks, as you weretransitioning over to Chris's
program?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great question.
First off, when you're eatingall those fresh vegetables,
you're going to the bathroom alot.
You've got that roughage justzooming through you.
That's, of course, a good thing.
I don't know how much of it isalso reacting to all the toxins
(18:59):
that the chemo is putting inyour body, but I think that's
flushing those toxins out thatyou're naturally detoxifying.
That was different, I shouldsay.
The chemo pretty quicklychanged my taste buds.
Everything in your digestivetract, from the tip of your
(19:20):
tongue to the other end, isimpacted because they're
fast-growing cells and the chemodisrupts fast-growing cells.
That's the intent, right.
The long and short of that is,your digestive tract is just as
havoc wreaked.
Everything tastes bad.
(19:42):
Everything tastes bad.
It changes your taste budsterribly.
For me it was like this soapypetroleum off-putting awful
taste.
Even a glass of water tastedawful.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Hummer Wow.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Shoots yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Has it come back, your taste?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
It does.
Okay good, I'm completely backnow.
You're not doing it for thetaste.
This is food as medicine.
You just drink your juice, eatyour big salad and just treat it
as prescription.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yeah, was there at any point along this journey
where you felt validation frommaybe the people who were taking
care of you, whether it wasdoctors, nurses or anyone saying
what you're doing, how you'reeating and this lifestyle that
you're trying to lead while alsoreceiving chemotherapy?
That's a great idea.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yes, I did get that.
I lost some weight, but Ineeded it.
I felt great.
I didn't look like the typicalcancer patient, except for the
fact that all my hair fell out.
I wasn't weak and emaciated andtired and struggling.
(21:03):
I wasn't like that at all.
Now, the biggest validation,frankly, came after my second
scan.
I had six cycles ofchemotherapy, each separated by
three weeks.
After my second chemo, I did afull body scan and visited with
(21:25):
my oncologist.
She opens it up and her jawdropped because I had what she
called bulky disease.
I had a very big mass, as Isaid, in my neck and chest.
It was completely going on.
After the second cycle Wow, shesaid.
(21:46):
I would have loved to see thisafter six cycles.
This is extraordinary after two.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Wow, she was expecting to hopefully see that
after six cycles, but you did itin two.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Right.
When she sent me to theradiation oncologist, we had a
frank discussion about that,because I said where are you
going to aim the radiation?
There's nothing, he said.
Well, we would traditionallyjust aim it at where the cancer
was.
I said, well, there'sabsolutely nothing since the
(22:25):
second chemo.
He said you've got a very goodpoint.
I asked him the same thing.
I said radiation is toxic,isn't it?
Oh yeah, it does havecarcinogenic effects.
It can bring on other cancers.
Oh yes, I said so.
(22:46):
There is risk involved in that,he said you're absolutely right
.
He said to be honest, I couldprobably only justify maybe a
10% increase in your longevityif we use radiation now.
I think we could skip it.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Wow, how did that?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
feel to hear that.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, wow, yeah, oh, my goodness, how did you feel
after hearing that that?
Speaker 2 (23:13):
was well, completely validated.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Right, like obviously this is working and frankly,
they ought to be using this as atherapy, if nothing else,
alongside the chemo.
Yeah, so it astounds me thatthey didn't take more interest
in it.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yeah, because did you receive any other education
like kind of any other lifestylefactors that would be
beneficial for you to practicewhile you were also receiving
chemo?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Well, they did encourage, you know, the group
exercise therapy.
They did have a nutritionist,but the nutritionist and I spoke
to two actually at the hospitaland they both said, well, you
really need to augment with someanimal protein.
You ought to at least addsalmon in there, yeah, and you
(24:09):
know, and maybe some lamb andthings like that.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
I will say when I did my rotation this was over a
decade ago now, so it's been awhile and things have changed,
yeah, but when I did my rotationin a cancer center, that was
the recommendation.
It was really eat whatever youwant what's kind of the main
thing and eat as much fat andprotein as you can to get those
calories in, because the morenutrient dense of foods you can
eat, the better off you're goingto be, because you're not going
to be eating a whole lot.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
So yeah, wow, and you go into the clinic waiting your
turn to get the chemo andthey've got all kinds of sugary
things there in the lobby foryou, even the, you know the
granola bars with the, you knowfruit-filled things I say fruit,
(24:53):
you know, yeah, who knows whatit is right, right, I mentioned,
by the way, speaking of sugar,that the number one thing you
eliminate from diet that Chrismakes it very clear is all sugar
and flour and processed foods.
They all go away.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
They're pro-inflammatory.
I mean, it's logically, itmakes sense, right, yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
And you're trying to get, you know, an
anti-inflammatory regimen inyour body.
Yeah, yeah, you know you'retrying to get rid of the healing
when you have cancer, but it'sa very good idea even if you
don't.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yeah, right, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
If you're eating whole foods all the time, you
just have this sense of satietythat you don't otherwise.
Yeah, yeah.
So it sounds daunting at first,I'm sure, for a lot of people
to get to do that, but once youget you break free of those, it
really is easier than you think.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Yeah, yeah, because you're right.
I mean your body adapts, yourdigestive system adapts, your
taste buds adapt to wear thosefoods and, once off-putting or
not as flavorful or appealing,become really delicious.
But it takes time, like yousaid, that's right.
Yeah, so you drastically I meannot so drastically, but you
change your diet, you're eating,you know you're overdosing on
nutrients.
(26:10):
What were some other lifestylefactors that you were doing as
well while you were gettingchemotherapy?
Speaker 2 (26:16):
So I also did a couple of radical things.
So well, I'll start with theeasiest one, and that is I got
an aura ring.
So an aura ring is a wearabledevice that tracks your sleep
and a lot of other key data whenyou're sleeping, so your heart
(26:37):
rate, your heart ratevariability, all kinds of cycles
of sleep, of course.
So REM sleep and deep sleep, etcetera.
And I tracked that very closelybecause sleep is such an
important part of the reparativeprocess.
Right, yeah, I mean noteverybody knows you need REM
sleep for emotional repair andyou need deep sleep for physical
(27:02):
repair.
I did high doses of vitamin C.
I see a functional medicinedoctor in the area, jay Stevens,
and Dr Stevens has got allkinds of cutting edge therapies
that are not in traditionalmedicine, like hyperbaric
(27:23):
chambers.
I did that.
Would you mind explaining what?
That is Absolutely so?
The hyperbaric chamber wasprimarily used for years for
divers that went to great depthsand then came up too quick and
what would happen is you'd getlittle bubbles of either oxygen
(27:44):
or nitrogen in your joints inparticular, kind of stuck.
So what they do is get you in ahyperbaric chamber and bring
you to depth again and let youslowly off, gas those little
bubbles in your body, and sothat's called the bends and
that's the way of repairing fromthe bends.
(28:05):
If you do that, if you go to adepth let's say one and a half
to two times normal atmosphere,and you breathe pure oxygen.
That oxygen goes to all of yourcells.
So on a cellular level you arerepairing by hyper-oxygenating
(28:29):
all your cells.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Wow, wow, that's fascinating.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah, it's particularly good and documented
for nerve damage, so it's knownto help people, even with PTSD,
to repair, and it's also verygood repairing all kinds of
other processes in your body.
Yeah, so I did that.
High vitamin C is verycontroversial, but if you do
that by IV, that is said to helprepair.
(28:58):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
I love talking about these different, just these
things that we don't think about, these treatments, these
alternative treatments that wejust don't hear about.
So I appreciate you kind ofjust sharing these different
things, because sometimes wejust don't know what's out there
, what's possible.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
And most traditional docs don't know enough about it
either.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
So you're not going to be able to go to your typical
primary physician and have themsuggest this stuff.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
It's true, it's too new, it's too cutting edge.
So if you read Mark Hyman'sbooks, for example, you'll hear
about that.
Maybe John Robbins John andOcean Robbins have a terrific
resource for kind of cuttingedge medicine and diet.
You probably know that, andalso I think it's.
(29:48):
We talked about the doctor upat Tufts, is it Gregor?
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Oh yeah, dr Gregor, right, I mean, there is a Dr
Gregor.
Is he at Tufts?
Yep, okay.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
I think he is.
Yeah, he's a nutrition, yes,and so, for example, he says
that eating chicken has beenlinked clinically to lymphoma.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Wow, yikes.
Yeah, yes, because he wrote thebook how Not To Die.
That's it.
And he has a great website,nutritionfactsorg, which is a
lot of just evidence-based,plant-based information.
That's right, yeah, which isphenomenal.
I love his website.
Yeah, I love the advice thatyou would give to someone who
may be in your situation earlyin 2023, who's trying to
(30:36):
navigate just all theinformation that's out there and
trying to figure out the bestapproach for them.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yes, yes, I would say really carefully consider some
of these alternatives totraditional medicine, keep an
open mind to this.
I realize it's not for everyoneand I also have come to know
that we kind of believe what webelieve all of us.
(31:04):
So typically people think Ijust want a pill to take care of
it, I just trust the doctorsand I just want to go that way
and they just kind of believethat.
And I would just encourage themto open their minds to some of
the other treatments and even ifyou don't go whole hog into
(31:30):
that, at least explore it,consider if you have cancer,
some of these other things thatcan influence the outcomes.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Yeah, I think that's wonderful, because that's what
you did, yeah, and look at whereyou are today.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
So it's been how long now, and how are things going?
Speaker 2 (31:52):
So my last chemotherapy was July 19th.
I had another scan a monthlater and got the all clear, so
basically the middle of August.
So it is pretty recent, and I'mgoing in for another kind of
(32:12):
check-in with my oncologist nextweek.
We'll need to do that aboutevery three or four months,
probably for another year, andthen every six months, and they
don't consider you cured untilit's been at least three years
with no recurrence.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Okay, great, wonderful.
I look forward to hearing fromyou three years from now.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I'd love to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah, that's wonderful.
Well, good, well, if there,we'll include a lot of those
resources in the show notes,that way for you listening.
If you're curious to learn moreabout Chris's protocol or some
of the other resources thatGeorge mentioned, you'll be able
to easily find those below.
But, George, I just appreciateyou so much.
I appreciate you sharing yourstory and just being so open and
(32:57):
honest about everything.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Oh, it's my pleasure.
I'm so glad we got to meet andhave that very first discussion.
That really helped affirm whatI was doing and now this
follow-up conversation isturning.
Yeah, thank you.
And a big shout out to Kerrywho introduced us, so that was
really wonderful.
Yes, thank you, kerry.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, George.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
thank you again for coming on the show.
I really appreciate you andthank you again for sharing your
story.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Absolutely.
Yeah, thanks for having meAbsolutely Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah, and thank you for tuning in today.
We'll catch you on the nextepisode.
Thank you so much for listeningto the Plant-Centered and
Thriving podcast today.
If you found this episodeinspiring, please share it with
a friend or post it on socialmedia and tag me so I can
personally say thank you.
Until next time, keep thriving.
Welcome to the Plant-Centered and Thriving
Podcast.
I'm your host, ashley Kitchens.
I'm a plant-based registereddietitian and virtual nutrition
mentor.
I was raised on an Angus CattleFarm, grew up with a lot of GI
issues and used the power ofplant-based eating to promote
healing.
Here you'll find inspiration,ideas and encouragement for your
(00:23):
own plant-based journey.
I'm so thrilled you're heretoday.
Let's get started.
Welcome to the showPlant-Centered Listener.
My name is Ashley and I am yourhost today.
Imagine being a what you thinkis a healthy and fit person.
You've pursued health,nutrition, fitness for years and
(00:44):
then, all of a sudden, you'rein the doctor's office being
diagnosed with gray zonelymphoma.
This is exactly what happenedto our guest today, about a year
ago now, and this is a story ofGeorge, who grew up in the New
York area before moving toDurham to go to Duke.
He falls in love with NorthCarolina, he never leaves.
(01:05):
He and his wife raise fourchildren and they now have nine
grandchildren.
George has a financial planningpractice here in Durham with his
partner, joe, and in additionto all that, he's pursued, like
I said, health and fitness foryears.
So it came as quite the shockwhen he was diagnosed with
(01:26):
lymphoma, along with traditionalmedical protocol of
chemotherapy, george ends uppursuing a strict plan of action
, including diet and exercise,to eliminate the cancer and
mitigate the effects of thechemotherapy.
This story all is incredible,and this is George's unique
(01:49):
perspective that he shares withyou, and I cannot wait for you
to hear it as well.
Please join me in welcoming tothe show, george.
I just kind of want to start atthe beginning with your story,
george, and kind of take us backto how everything started.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Sure.
So I guess it started in early2022 when I got COVID and I
thought that I eventuallydeveloped long COVID.
So for starting in the springof 22, all the way through the
fall I had this lingering,annoying cough.
(02:27):
And it wasn't until in the fall, the late fall of 22, that I
noticed a hard lump in my neckand I pointed it out to my
doctor and he got very alarmed.
With the exam.
(02:48):
It was obviously a swollenlymph node and we immediately
did some bloods and I hadelevated inflammation markers
and so he suggested biopsies.
And that was a long, rocky road, to be honest, because the
(03:08):
needle biopsy didn't showanything.
So then we did a more invasivesurgical biopsy.
It wasn't conclusive.
We had to do a third biopsy atDuke, and it wasn't entirely
conclusive either.
I engaged an oncologist who waskind of out of the system, kind
(03:29):
of wanted a third partyreference, and she said listen,
I think this is so unusual, weneed to take your biopsy and
send it to the NationalInstitute of Health where Dr
Jeffries, who is a well-knownpathologist, can take a look at
(03:53):
it.
And she did.
And she came back and said youhave lymphoma, but it's not
Hodgkins and it's notnon-Hodgkins, it's this rare
version called Greyzone.
So I had Greyzone lymphoma.
I interviewed the lymphomaspecialist at Duke.
(04:16):
Frankly did not really like herbedside manner.
I talked a lot about diet andshe didn't really want to hear
about it.
She just said if you pursuediet to treat this, you'll be
dead in a month, in a year.
Okay, you'll be dead in a year.
And she was just so very matterof fact and frank and just
(04:38):
didn't believe it in it.
It was obvious.
I just said, okay, well, I needto look at someone else.
And so I went to UNC, foundanother oncologist who, although
she didn't seem verywell-versed in diet as a
treatment or kind of a strongsupplement to traditional
(05:01):
medicine, she was certainly moreopen to it and not so
antagonistic.
So that's where I ended upgoing for the traditional
approach to treating cancer.
You're not going to besurprised.
It's chemo and maybe radiationand whatever else.
(05:22):
So I should take one step backand say that between all these
biopsies and consultations andall that stuff, I went to a
website called Chris Beat Cancer.
A friend had recommended this.
This is a man named Chris Warkeand Chris, at 26, got colon
(05:47):
cancer and pursued a holisticapproach to treating cancer.
So it's food, it's meditation,it's exercise, it's community
all the things that we know froma holistic point of view are
great medicine.
(06:07):
It's really about food asmedicine primarily, and so I
dove in with both feet tounderstand his protocol and
follow his steps.
He has about a dozen videoswhere he goes into great depth
about all of those ways ofaddressing cancer, all kinds of
(06:29):
cancer.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
When you saw your first oncologist?
Was this kind of the approachthat you had in mind?
Had you already been introducedto it?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yes, and she just kind of treated it like you know
, well, that's all well and good, but you really need to do this
with strong chemotherapy.
Yeah, that was her approach.
And I said, well, isn'tchemotherapy toxic?
Yeah, and isn't it carcinogenic?
(07:00):
The actual therapy?
Well, yeah, it might be, butyou know you're going to die
without it, so you need it.
It's very effective.
And you know it is hard toargue that for lymphoma.
Anyhow, the data is out there.
You know they can.
They've tested this clinically.
It's got something like a 75%or better chance of curing
(07:27):
lymphoma.
So it's hard to argue that youshouldn't do that.
And you know, when I had theconversation with my wife and
kids you know my adult kids theywere all like you know, you got
to do that, dad.
You know the diet just scaresus too much.
You can't just do that.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Sure, yes, yeah, and it sounds like you ended up
going down the path of botheventually.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Exactly.
That's right, that's right.
I actually had a chance topursue the diet protocol for
about two months before Ilaunched into the chemo.
Some of that had to do withinsurance coverage and I changed
insurance and so we needed alittle bit of time, but in that
time the tumor in my neck wentdown substantially.
(08:15):
I felt great energy.
I started to feel better.
By the way, I should say, I didhave this, what they call
medial steinal B cell lymphoma.
So it wasn't just in my neck,it was also.
There was a large mass behindmy sternum, and it really could
have been life-threatening ifwe'd let it.
You know, continue on?
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean I'm feeling too kind ofgetting these biopsies done and
it keeps coming backinconclusive, and then you know
it's being shipped off to thisother doctor.
I mean, how are you kind offeeling that time that's a lot
of waiting time trying to figureout what is going on with you
and your health?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
It is, and that was probably the toughest time
through the whole journey wasjust kind of figuring out what
on earth is this really and howdo we treat it, and you know
what's the prognosis.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
all that yeah, yeah, you're right.
So a couple months before youeven started chemo, you started
this approach that Chris highlyrecommends, that he used himself
, and it sounds like your tumoralready started shrinking a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
It did, it did, it was very clear.
Of course the doctor said oh no, you're just losing weight and
you know you're leaving moreroom for the tumor to feel
better.
It doesn't feel so tight inyour neck.
They just they don't want tobelieve that you can address it
this way.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah, which I'll say, george.
It's so frustrating to hearthat, because there's so much
evidence that shows howimpactful diet can be on a
variety of different healthconditions.
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
And doctors aren't trained this way.
You know they get theirtraining largely from the
pharmaceutical industry.
Big farm, you know, pays forthe studies, pays for their
information that they aretrained on.
Trained on right.
So, that's why doctors have twomajor tools on their tool belt.
(10:09):
Right Is surgery.
Surgery than there is 30% ofthe whole world cutting.
Or it's medication.
It's not diet, sleep andexercise and meditation.
They're not going to tell youthat, they're not going to
prescribe that.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Right, which is what you were practicing the two
months right leading up to yourchemo.
I am curious, and it'sunfortunate, that people like
Chris kind of get pushed asideand it's like, oh, that person's
quote crazy, or they're kind ofa whack or something.
But I know we kind of talkedoffline that Chris has a ton of
testimonials of people who havefollowed his program and of
course it's very important, ifyou're listening to this, to
(10:41):
kind of do your own research anddo what's best for you, because
by no means is this medicaladvice.
We're just kind of sharing ourown stories of what our yeah,
our opinions are here, but couldyou kind of explain what you
were doing those two monthsleading up to getting your chemo
, absolutely absolutely Up toand throughout the chemo.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
I should say this is a good at least six to eight
months of this protocol and it'sreally pretty simple.
You eat two enormous he callsthem cancer-beating salads a day
, and you can augment that laterwith things like oatmeal and
(11:20):
I'll get into that and juicing.
So it's basically 40 to 60ounces of root juices every day,
and then I also would have agreen lemonade, which is
basically an organic lemon, andfour green apples and or at
(11:42):
least that ratio in the juicer.
So you're drinking that everyday.
A smoothie every day which isbasically organic cherries and
strawberries, a banana and anorganic lemon.
I would add to that cranberry, afreeze-dried cranberry powder,
and amla, and amla is actuallyknown as a gooseberry.
(12:07):
It's widely used in India andin avaretic medicine, where they
use that powder Because it'sthe one fruit on earth that has
the most antioxidants on theplanet.
But it's very bitter, so it'sbest used in things like
(12:29):
smoothies.
So I was doing that every dayand certainly just all the raw
vegetables in smoothies for 90days, and then after that I
started to introduce some cookedvegetables as well.
So the salads would havebroccoli, sprouts, leafy greens,
(12:49):
carrots, tomatoes.
Anything that I wanted on thesalad really was fine Sourcrout
because you want fermentedthings in your diet every day to
try to replace the gut systemthat you're destroying with
chemo.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
So I know that you mentioned George eating a lot of
salads.
You're pressing a lot of fruitsand vegetables and making
juices and smoothies, and youalso mentioned cooked vegetables
as well.
How did that play a role intoyour diet?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yes, so I was really all raw for the first 90 days.
But that does get old and aftera while you do want to have
cooked foods.
So I would pretty consistentlyroast cauliflower, roast
broccoli, asparagus.
I actually went to aacupuncturist every week and she
(13:39):
was terrific helping me kind ofsupport my liver and detox.
But she also said eat asparagusevery day if you can.
In Eastern medicine that'sconsidered a superfood, so I
roasted a lot of asparagus.
I ate that.
My wife is from Portugal and soshe would routinely make me
(14:02):
these vegan soups, which isbasically zucchini, some potato,
garlic, onion, leeks, spinach,all those kinds of things.
So I would routinely have thesevegan soups.
So I did kind of go to somecooked foods later on.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
So a lot of plants.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
it sounds like A lot of plants and, by the way, you
don't eat any animal products.
And he goes into great depthexplaining the carcinogenic
effects of animal products andall the things that are in them.
I mean, even if you're eatingorganic animal products, there's
(14:44):
all kinds of reasons not to be.
That was a little bit easierfor me because in the fall of
2021, I was bit by a tick andgot alpha-gal.
That's right.
Are you familiar?
(15:04):
Do you know other people withalpha-gal?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, I do.
I've met several yes.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah, so for folks listening who aren't in the
southeast of the United States,this is becoming a real issue
for us in the south.
If you get bit by the Lone Startick, you have this autoimmune
reaction to mammal.
So I actually went to the ERafter eating a steak.
(15:31):
I broke out in highs, terriblehighs, and they were worried I
was going to have ananaphylactic reaction.
I didn't, because they gave mesteroids and all that, but from
so it's been a couple of yearsnow that I was off of all mammal
anyhow.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yes, wait.
So what was the timeline?
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Did you get bit by the tick first, remind me that's
right Fall of 2021, got COVIDin spring of 2022, discovered
the lymphoma by February of 2023.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Wow, oh my goodness, george, yeah, wow.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
It sounds like too, following this program, it was
probably, I'm assuming, a littlebit different than maybe the
lifestyle that you werefollowing previously, with your
diet at least.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
That's right.
Yeah, that's right.
I had been exercising for yearsand I didn't let that drop.
So five days a week I was doingsome kind of high intensity
exercise throughout the cancertreatment.
So I was boxing twice a weekand lifting weights with a
(16:47):
personal trainer the other threedays.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
And this was during your chemotherapy.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I actually feel like the reasonI felt good enough to do that
was because I was overdosing onnutrients.
I was feeding my body all thethings it needed, and that kept
my energy level.
I occasionally needed to stopin the afternoon and take an app
(17:14):
, but that's about it.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Wow, I like that term toooverdosing on nutrients.
I think that's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, yeah, that's kind of Chris's mantra.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Okay, all right.
Yeah that's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
The other thing I wanted to mention was that I
worked out five days a week, butthat's not for everybody.
Some people just get hit harderby the chemo and they just
don't have the energy to do allthat.
For those folks, I think ifthey can just get up and take a
walk, if it's 10 minutes tostart, great.
If they can get out 20 or 30minutes and walk around in the
(17:49):
neighborhood, that's critical.
Movement is life, and if youcan get moving, that's going to
do your world a good, no matterwhat it is.
Yeah definitely.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
I would imagine you had to learn some new skills,
because I imagine you weren'tjuicing every day like you were
before that, right?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Oh my gosh, it felt like a full-time job because I
was going to Whole Foods mostevery day, storing up all kinds
of fresh organic fruits andveggies and then preparing it.
You're right, it did take sometime, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Yeah, how was that transitioned to?
How did your body adjust thoseinitial few days, or maybe even
few weeks, as you weretransitioning over to Chris's
program?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great question.
First off, when you're eatingall those fresh vegetables,
you're going to the bathroom alot.
You've got that roughage justzooming through you.
That's, of course, a good thing.
I don't know how much of it isalso reacting to all the toxins
(18:59):
that the chemo is putting inyour body, but I think that's
flushing those toxins out thatyou're naturally detoxifying.
That was different, I shouldsay.
The chemo pretty quicklychanged my taste buds.
Everything in your digestivetract, from the tip of your
(19:20):
tongue to the other end, isimpacted because they're
fast-growing cells and the chemodisrupts fast-growing cells.
That's the intent, right.
The long and short of that is,your digestive tract is just as
havoc wreaked.
Everything tastes bad.
(19:42):
Everything tastes bad.
It changes your taste budsterribly.
For me it was like this soapypetroleum off-putting awful
taste.
Even a glass of water tastedawful.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Hummer Wow.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Shoots yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Has it come back, your taste?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
It does.
Okay good, I'm completely backnow.
You're not doing it for thetaste.
This is food as medicine.
You just drink your juice, eatyour big salad and just treat it
as prescription.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yeah, was there at any point along this journey
where you felt validation frommaybe the people who were taking
care of you, whether it wasdoctors, nurses or anyone saying
what you're doing, how you'reeating and this lifestyle that
you're trying to lead while alsoreceiving chemotherapy?
That's a great idea.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yes, I did get that.
I lost some weight, but Ineeded it.
I felt great.
I didn't look like the typicalcancer patient, except for the
fact that all my hair fell out.
I wasn't weak and emaciated andtired and struggling.
(21:03):
I wasn't like that at all.
Now, the biggest validation,frankly, came after my second
scan.
I had six cycles ofchemotherapy, each separated by
three weeks.
After my second chemo, I did afull body scan and visited with
(21:25):
my oncologist.
She opens it up and her jawdropped because I had what she
called bulky disease.
I had a very big mass, as Isaid, in my neck and chest.
It was completely going on.
After the second cycle Wow, shesaid.
(21:46):
I would have loved to see thisafter six cycles.
This is extraordinary after two.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Wow, she was expecting to hopefully see that
after six cycles, but you did itin two.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Right.
When she sent me to theradiation oncologist, we had a
frank discussion about that,because I said where are you
going to aim the radiation?
There's nothing, he said.
Well, we would traditionallyjust aim it at where the cancer
was.
I said, well, there'sabsolutely nothing since the
(22:25):
second chemo.
He said you've got a very goodpoint.
I asked him the same thing.
I said radiation is toxic,isn't it?
Oh yeah, it does havecarcinogenic effects.
It can bring on other cancers.
Oh yes, I said so.
(22:46):
There is risk involved in that,he said you're absolutely right
.
He said to be honest, I couldprobably only justify maybe a
10% increase in your longevityif we use radiation now.
I think we could skip it.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Wow, how did that?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
feel to hear that.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, wow, yeah, oh, my goodness, how did you feel
after hearing that that?
Speaker 2 (23:13):
was well, completely validated.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Right, like obviously this is working and frankly,
they ought to be using this as atherapy, if nothing else,
alongside the chemo.
Yeah, so it astounds me thatthey didn't take more interest
in it.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yeah, because did you receive any other education
like kind of any other lifestylefactors that would be
beneficial for you to practicewhile you were also receiving
chemo?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Well, they did encourage, you know, the group
exercise therapy.
They did have a nutritionist,but the nutritionist and I spoke
to two actually at the hospitaland they both said, well, you
really need to augment with someanimal protein.
You ought to at least addsalmon in there, yeah, and you
(24:09):
know, and maybe some lamb andthings like that.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
I will say when I did my rotation this was over a
decade ago now, so it's been awhile and things have changed,
yeah, but when I did my rotationin a cancer center, that was
the recommendation.
It was really eat whatever youwant what's kind of the main
thing and eat as much fat andprotein as you can to get those
calories in, because the morenutrient dense of foods you can
eat, the better off you're goingto be, because you're not going
to be eating a whole lot.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
So yeah, wow, and you go into the clinic waiting your
turn to get the chemo andthey've got all kinds of sugary
things there in the lobby foryou, even the, you know the
granola bars with the, you knowfruit-filled things I say fruit,
(24:53):
you know, yeah, who knows whatit is right, right, I mentioned,
by the way, speaking of sugar,that the number one thing you
eliminate from diet that Chrismakes it very clear is all sugar
and flour and processed foods.
They all go away.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
They're pro-inflammatory.
I mean, it's logically, itmakes sense, right, yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
And you're trying to get, you know, an
anti-inflammatory regimen inyour body.
Yeah, yeah, you know you'retrying to get rid of the healing
when you have cancer, but it'sa very good idea even if you
don't.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yeah, right, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
If you're eating whole foods all the time, you
just have this sense of satietythat you don't otherwise.
Yeah, yeah.
So it sounds daunting at first,I'm sure, for a lot of people
to get to do that, but once youget you break free of those, it
really is easier than you think.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Yeah, yeah, because you're right.
I mean your body adapts, yourdigestive system adapts, your
taste buds adapt to wear thosefoods and, once off-putting or
not as flavorful or appealing,become really delicious.
But it takes time, like yousaid, that's right.
Yeah, so you drastically I meannot so drastically, but you
change your diet, you're eating,you know you're overdosing on
nutrients.
(26:10):
What were some other lifestylefactors that you were doing as
well while you were gettingchemotherapy?
Speaker 2 (26:16):
So I also did a couple of radical things.
So well, I'll start with theeasiest one, and that is I got
an aura ring.
So an aura ring is a wearabledevice that tracks your sleep
and a lot of other key data whenyou're sleeping, so your heart
(26:37):
rate, your heart ratevariability, all kinds of cycles
of sleep, of course.
So REM sleep and deep sleep, etcetera.
And I tracked that very closelybecause sleep is such an
important part of the reparativeprocess.
Right, yeah, I mean noteverybody knows you need REM
sleep for emotional repair andyou need deep sleep for physical
(27:02):
repair.
I did high doses of vitamin C.
I see a functional medicinedoctor in the area, jay Stevens,
and Dr Stevens has got allkinds of cutting edge therapies
that are not in traditionalmedicine, like hyperbaric
(27:23):
chambers.
I did that.
Would you mind explaining what?
That is Absolutely so?
The hyperbaric chamber wasprimarily used for years for
divers that went to great depthsand then came up too quick and
what would happen is you'd getlittle bubbles of either oxygen
(27:44):
or nitrogen in your joints inparticular, kind of stuck.
So what they do is get you in ahyperbaric chamber and bring
you to depth again and let youslowly off, gas those little
bubbles in your body, and sothat's called the bends and
that's the way of repairing fromthe bends.
(28:05):
If you do that, if you go to adepth let's say one and a half
to two times normal atmosphere,and you breathe pure oxygen.
That oxygen goes to all of yourcells.
So on a cellular level you arerepairing by hyper-oxygenating
(28:29):
all your cells.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Wow, wow, that's fascinating.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah, it's particularly good and documented
for nerve damage, so it's knownto help people, even with PTSD,
to repair, and it's also verygood repairing all kinds of
other processes in your body.
Yeah, so I did that.
High vitamin C is verycontroversial, but if you do
that by IV, that is said to helprepair.
(28:58):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
I love talking about these different, just these
things that we don't think about, these treatments, these
alternative treatments that wejust don't hear about.
So I appreciate you kind ofjust sharing these different
things, because sometimes wejust don't know what's out there
, what's possible.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
And most traditional docs don't know enough about it
either.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
So you're not going to be able to go to your typical
primary physician and have themsuggest this stuff.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
It's true, it's too new, it's too cutting edge.
So if you read Mark Hyman'sbooks, for example, you'll hear
about that.
Maybe John Robbins John andOcean Robbins have a terrific
resource for kind of cuttingedge medicine and diet.
You probably know that, andalso I think it's.
(29:48):
We talked about the doctor upat Tufts, is it Gregor?
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Oh yeah, dr Gregor, right, I mean, there is a Dr
Gregor.
Is he at Tufts?
Yep, okay.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
I think he is.
Yeah, he's a nutrition, yes,and so, for example, he says
that eating chicken has beenlinked clinically to lymphoma.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Wow, yikes.
Yeah, yes, because he wrote thebook how Not To Die.
That's it.
And he has a great website,nutritionfactsorg, which is a
lot of just evidence-based,plant-based information.
That's right, yeah, which isphenomenal.
I love his website.
Yeah, I love the advice thatyou would give to someone who
may be in your situation earlyin 2023, who's trying to
(30:36):
navigate just all theinformation that's out there and
trying to figure out the bestapproach for them.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yes, yes, I would say really carefully consider some
of these alternatives totraditional medicine, keep an
open mind to this.
I realize it's not for everyoneand I also have come to know
that we kind of believe what webelieve all of us.
(31:04):
So typically people think Ijust want a pill to take care of
it, I just trust the doctorsand I just want to go that way
and they just kind of believethat.
And I would just encourage themto open their minds to some of
the other treatments and even ifyou don't go whole hog into
(31:30):
that, at least explore it,consider if you have cancer,
some of these other things thatcan influence the outcomes.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Yeah, I think that's wonderful, because that's what
you did, yeah, and look at whereyou are today.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
So it's been how long now, and how are things going?
Speaker 2 (31:52):
So my last chemotherapy was July 19th.
I had another scan a monthlater and got the all clear, so
basically the middle of August.
So it is pretty recent, and I'mgoing in for another kind of
(32:12):
check-in with my oncologist nextweek.
We'll need to do that aboutevery three or four months,
probably for another year, andthen every six months, and they
don't consider you cured untilit's been at least three years
with no recurrence.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Okay, great, wonderful.
I look forward to hearing fromyou three years from now.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I'd love to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah, that's wonderful.
Well, good, well, if there,we'll include a lot of those
resources in the show notes,that way for you listening.
If you're curious to learn moreabout Chris's protocol or some
of the other resources thatGeorge mentioned, you'll be able
to easily find those below.
But, George, I just appreciateyou so much.
I appreciate you sharing yourstory and just being so open and
(32:57):
honest about everything.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Oh, it's my pleasure.
I'm so glad we got to meet andhave that very first discussion.
That really helped affirm whatI was doing and now this
follow-up conversation isturning.
Yeah, thank you.
And a big shout out to Kerrywho introduced us, so that was
really wonderful.
Yes, thank you, kerry.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, George.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
thank you again for coming on the show.
I really appreciate you andthank you again for sharing your
story.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Absolutely.
Yeah, thanks for having meAbsolutely Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah, and thank you for tuning in today.
We'll catch you on the nextepisode.
Thank you so much for listeningto the Plant-Centered and
Thriving podcast today.
If you found this episodeinspiring, please share it with
a friend or post it on socialmedia and tag me so I can
personally say thank you.
Until next time, keep thriving.
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