"I have figured out how to listen to my body and I don’t have to feel lost in this health care society."
My guest today is Genny Mack who bravely recounts her battle with lupus. When the only guidance western medicine provided was prescriptions, she knew there was so much more out there. Genny illustrates the remarkable turnaround she experienced by embracing whole foods and mindfulness, a shift that not only soothed her lupus symptoms but also reinvigorated her life. Equipped with this new knowledge inspired her to help guide others on their path to wellness.
If you want to connect with Genny, visit the following:
Instagram: @gennymack__
TikTok: @gennymack
Website: gennymack.com
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Plant-Centered and Thriving
Podcast.
I'm your host, ashley Kitchens.
I'm a plant-based registereddietitian and virtual nutrition
mentor.
I was raised on an Angus CattleFarm, grew up with a lot of GI
issues and used the power ofplant-based eating to promote
healing.
Here you'll find inspiration,ideas and encouragement for your
(00:23):
own plant-based journey.
I'm so thrilled you're heretoday.
Let's get started.
Welcome to the showPlant-Centered Listener.
My name is Ashley and I am yourhost today.
And today I have a very specialstory for you.
Imagine being diagnosed with anautoimmune disease and your
doctor tells you to just takeyour medication and eat whatever
(00:45):
you want.
Well, this is where Jenny MaxMission and her story comes into
play.
She is on a mission to guidelupus warriors on a
transformative journey toreclaim vitality through whole
food holistic healing.
Jenny transformed her overallwell-being after being diagnosed
with lupus, sle and kidneynephritis and suffering
(01:08):
debilitating lupus flares.
By transitioning to eatingwhole, nourishing foods from
mother nature and by practicingmindfulness, jenny now has more
mental clarity, energy andpurpose than ever before.
This led her to becoming acertified holistic nutritionist,
(01:28):
autoimmune nutrition specialist, fitness coach and has changed
many lives through clean eating,movement and mindfulness.
Jenny's hope is to empower10,000-plus BIPOC women and
communities in 2024 to livehealthier lives and reclaim
vitality.
Please join me in welcomingJenny to the show.
(01:50):
Jenny, welcome to the show I amso excited to have you here
today, looking forward to thisconversation, me too.
So we actually connected onsocial media, which was
incredible.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yes, and I've been following you for a while now.
I love the work that you aredoing, so it was a no-brainer to
be here today.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Well, thank you so much.
Well, I'm honestly curious tojust kind of get right into it,
and I would love for you to beable to share a little bit about
your diagnosis and kind of justhow initially this affected
your life.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, so.
Okay.
So I have lupus, which issystemic lupus, meaning that it
can attack any of my organs, andthe thing with lupus is that it
affects everyone differently,so there could be long
involvement.
There could be kidneyinvolvement, brain involvement.
It's a very it can be a veryaggressive and unpredictable
(02:46):
disease.
So the onset of my lupus cameabout years before my official
diagnosis.
So, on average, the statisticssay that it takes about six
years to get officiallydiagnosed with lupus, and it was
about 10 years in my casebecause in my early 20s I was
getting the signs of lupus,which is more around joint
(03:11):
inflammation and swelling in myhands and my knees.
But I was in my 20s, so I wantedto live this carefree life, you
know, going out till the weehours of morning, living in New
York City.
So I kind of, you know, put thewhat ifs on the back burner
until 2017.
I was really hit hard with thedisease and that meant that I
(03:34):
had pneumonia-like symptoms, Ihad a fever, I had the flu, even
more joint swelling, chronicpain throughout my entire body.
So that led me to go to arheumatologist who generally
officially diagnosis individualswith lupus, and they said, okay
, you had the markers before.
Now you're having the symptoms,you have lupus, and that was my
(03:58):
journey to self-discovery withlearning about this disease.
It wasn't completely new for me, which we could talk more about
, because my mother also hadlupus, so I learned about lupus
through her diagnosis.
But generationally, individualsthat have lupus, you know, for
30, 40 years, they handle itdifferently to someone that just
(04:20):
becomes diagnosed with lupus.
So yeah, that's my diagnosisstory.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Wow, yeah well, Jenny , I was looking on your
Instagram before coming on hereand you have a pinned real right
now talking about your journey,showing you in the hospital
afterwards.
I mean, you truthfully looklike a shell of who you are now.
I mean just night and daydifference I know you talked
about like you had lost a lot ofweight.
You were in and out of thehospital for many, you know, a
(04:46):
long time.
It's just it's wild to see,sort of looking at you now and
looking at you then, how muchhas changed in just in your
journey and these like changesthat you have made for yourself
which we're going to talk about.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yes, there have been different moments throughout my
lupus journey.
My first diagnosis was in 2017.
2018 was the first time I washospitalized with this disease,
and the same cadence as what youjust recently saw.
I lost a lot of weight.
I was basically malnourished,my body was rejecting food, my
(05:22):
organs were attacking my immunesystem, as they say.
So 2018 was my first exposureto what lupus can do to the body
, and that's really what startedmy holistic healing journey, as
I described, really tappinginto.
Okay, well, I know Westernmedication is life saving, it
(05:43):
has its needs, but what else canI do to take control of my
health?
And that's when I started toexplore the power of eating
plants, using plants as medicine, and that actually got me into
remission with this.
So I was disease free foralmost three years and then
COVID hit.
(06:03):
Covid hit and I caught COVID inJune of 2022.
Finally hit me in June of 2022.
And that's when my health juststarted declining yet again,
which led me to beinghospitalized again in January of
2023.
I was in and out of the hospitalfor about four and a half
(06:23):
months and it hit me even harder.
I lost one third of my bodyweight again, just malnourished,
and had chronic pain from headto toe and there were moments
where I did feel like I wasn'tgoing to make it, but something
in me said you can do this.
You've been here before.
Use the experience that you'velearned throughout this journey,
(06:46):
studying holistic nutrition andreally tapping into self.
So that is what led me heretoday.
Thankfully, I'm here to sharethis story, but it was a lot of
learning.
It was a lot of unlearning, butultimately it was about really
tapping into my intuition tofigure out how to transform my
(07:08):
health.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah, I'm curious.
I have two questions with thattoo is how did you initially
maybe get introduced to aholistic approach to managing
your symptoms, and then whatwere those initial steps that
you first took?
And I'm just curious how thatstarted for you.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yes.
So initially, when I had myfirst severe flare in 2018, I'll
never forget I asked therheumatologist okay, I know I
have to take all of thesemedications, but what do I eat?
And the rheumatologist repliedand said eat whatever you want,
take your medication.
And for me that was a triggerpoint.
(07:49):
That was a moment where thatactually changed my entire
perception of the medicalindustry, because, although I
didn't have the answers then, Iknew deep down inside that that
wasn't the only answer.
I couldn't just eat what Iwanted to and I shouldn't just
(08:10):
only take the medication.
So that led me into doingresearch and I came across the
journey and understanding aboutplant-based nutrition and I
started studying Dr BrookGoldner, for example, and I
heard that she transformed herhealth by eating more plants,
and that really led me down arabbit hole.
(08:32):
And then I also discovered thatthere are only 3% of
nutritionists who are people ofcolor right Nutritionists and
dietitians.
So for me, that led me intothis path to really not only
figure out what I can eat tofeel better with them myself,
but how I can help guide andeducate others on what they
(08:56):
should be eating to transformtheir health.
So that's when I became acertified holistic nutritionist,
and then I went one stepfurther and became certified in
autoimmune nutrition to figureout how to eat foods that were
anti-inflammatory in nature.
And, like I said, I'm human,things happen.
(09:16):
I got sick again, and that'swhen I had to figure out okay,
how do I actually get to theroot cause of my sickness, which
is leading me to the path todayto really focus more on gut
health, because most of ourimmune system lies within our
gut and I know that lupus and alot of other chronic diseases
(09:38):
sort of stem from emotionaltrauma.
So I'm tapping into that spacethere.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Absolutely beautiful and I love it because I, just in
following you, I know thatyou're not just into nutrition,
that you're into this likereally holistic well-being
approach to what it is thatyou're doing.
You're bringing in mindfulness.
This morning I saw you dancingin your yard like just different
things like that.
I mean, we know nutrition isimportant, but gosh, there are
(10:05):
so many other things involvedtoo, even like you're talking
about working through or healingpast trauma, as emotional
traumas like those are, itsounds like a really important
part of this journey.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Absolutely, and yes, it's more than just nutrition.
We are complex beings, so wehave to really bring in the
complexity of life throughmovement, through mindfulness,
through intention, throughlifestyle, through smiling,
through dancing.
So, yeah, it's really importantfor me to show people yes, we
(10:38):
should watch what we put in ourbody, what we put on our body,
but how we're living our liveson a daily basis, how are we
prioritizing ourselves?
How are we bringing back thejoys of our life that we used to
appreciate when we were younger?
Maybe we forgot about thosemoments that made us smile and
(10:58):
laugh.
So, really trying to showpeople that you can live this
wholesome life and it can bejoyous, it can be fun.
It doesn't have to berestrictive either, because
there's a lot of misinformationout there about what we
shouldn't eat.
But what about what we shouldeat?
What about those things that weshould enjoy?
(11:20):
What about the foods that ourancestors ate?
That's something that I'mstarting to go back into,
because in this autoimmune space, there can be areas where
they're telling you oh, youshouldn't eat grains or you
shouldn't eat carbohydrates,Complex carbohydrates.
(11:42):
You know, again, we'recomplexity, we're complex beings
.
We need those complexcarbohydrates for energy and
other vitamins and minerals.
So, yeah, it's all aboutbringing that whole experience
into this and having fun with it.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that fun piece and kindof going back to those things
that really brought us joy andchildhood are so important,
those things that lit us up,that made us smile, where we
would just like go out in theyard and act, you know, just
like a wild person and wewouldn't even care, and it would
bring us so much joy.
I think that is so important.
So I'm curious, jenny, for you,was this sort of like an
(12:17):
overnight thing, or was itsomething that you sort of like
gradually introduced as you weregoing?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, it definitely was a transition.
It was a transition toincorporate more plans into my
day-to-day, into my lifestyle,because growing up, maybe, we
had some collard greens on thetable.
You know, it was verymeat-centric in terms of what we
ate on a daily basis.
(12:44):
A lot of meats and pork wasinfused in the collard greens,
mac and cheese, you know.
So the soulful cuisine wasabundant in our household, and
we also did come from timeswhere we didn't know when our
next meal would be.
You know, we had to eat thefood that was in our
(13:04):
refrigerator, whether that wasramen noodles or mayonnaise
sandwiches.
So there was also this scarcitymindset on top of you better
finish the food on your plate.
So I had to do a lot ofunlearning, as I mentioned
before, unlearning about OK,these are some of those
traditional foods that I grew upeating, but are they actually
(13:26):
hindering us?
Are they making us sicker?
Right, that was one part of it.
But also learning again as I gothrough this new phase.
Those cultural foods some ofthem I should really celebrate,
you know, like the Black EyedPeas, for example, because they
bring the protein, they bringthe complex carbohydrates, they
(13:46):
bring the vitamins and mineralsthat my body needs to sustain.
So it's really understandingthe cultural foods that I should
celebrate, but also those foodsthat can be causing us harm,
making our family sicker, andfinding that balance there.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely Well.
And as you are going throughthis, I'm curious what
challenges you sort of facedwhether it was other people,
whether it was your own healthkind of as you started this
transition and really startedapproaching life in a much more
holistic way.
That was different than maybehow you grew up or how you were
eating and living in your 20s.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Challenge.
Indeed, ashley, that's a verygood question, because
transitioning to this holistichealing space hasn't been easy.
Ok, I'll give an example.
So I had a vegan Thanksgiving.
I had a plant-basedThanksgiving three years ago and
I invited my entire family.
My mom said she would come.
(14:42):
So my mom comes and everythingwas 100% plant-based.
Has never been done before.
She's never enjoyed only plantsbefore, so for her she was
hesitant.
But she also always has beenvery supportive in everything
that I've done.
But she enjoyed it.
(15:02):
She went for a second.
She ate the collard greens.
She really enjoyed the sweetpotato pie, so for her she was
supportive.
She was excited to see what Iwas doing in this space.
So it hasn't been an area thatI would say my family has jumped
on immediately.
But they also see how it'stransformed and changed my life.
(15:25):
And I'll give another example.
I just celebrated my niece'steen, tiniata, which is a
16-year-old birthday party in ElPaso, texas, because my
brother's family is married to aMexican family and we stayed in
the Airbnb together and Idecided that I wanted to cook
(15:46):
breakfast every morning.
So I made oatmeal and youdressed it with nuts and seeds
and fruits.
Again, you get that initialresistance because some of the
family is used to baking an eggin the morning, but they also
wanted to have those familygatherings and moments eating
(16:07):
together and they were veryappreciative of the oatmeal.
My sister came home from thetrip and she asked for the
recipe.
So I also see that noteverybody has been on board with
me from day one, but they arevery supportive of me along the
journey and I do see the smallchanges that people are making
(16:30):
In their own personal lives,which has been exciting.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and it sounds like
you showed people that oatmealdoesn't just have to be like
oats and brown sugar.
It can be so much moreBeautiful.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yeah, and you sweeten it the way that you want to.
You know, okay, maybe brownsugar, maple syrup.
There's so many ways you coulduse dates to sweeten it too.
So, yeah, it could be your ownbeautiful bowl of goodness.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yes, yeah, absolutely so, Jenny.
How is your Journey?
Because it sounds like, I mean,your family has truly noticed
how this has massivelytransformed your health and your
life, with your mom having asimilar, same diagnosis, and we
know that it affects peopledifferently.
How has that maybe your journeyimpacted hers?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, yeah, you know that is a very profound question
because I'm grateful that mymom is still here to, you know,
have her own personal experience.
But we share the experiencestogether.
I do find that I've gottencloser to my mom over this time
of me being diagnosed.
(17:38):
So it's been a good six, sevenyears Since I've been diagnosed,
with the best and justexperiencing the disease
together.
So, you know, there's beentimes where I've been
hospitalized, there's been timeswhere she's been hospitalized
and we're there to support oneanother.
So she's always been supportiveAlong the way.
She's made a lot of changes inher own life as well, being very
(18:02):
mindful about what she's eating.
You know she wants to do more.
We all want to do more, but youknow, I know she's trying her
her best to show up for herselfand the way that she Shares her
love is through her support.
What's my journey as well?
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Yeah, I'm curious to like, justwith your own journey, how you
tailor nutrition advice for theclients that you work with as
well.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yes, big, big one, because, having a chronic
illness, what I've learned formyself and with others is that
Nutrition can mean somethingvery different for individuals
with a chronic condition.
So, for example, I learned alongthe way that I wasn't able to
(18:50):
Tolerate raw foods, for example,for a long time because I
didn't have the gut microbiometo break down and digest the
food Right.
So I do find that working withindividuals in the chronic
illness space, it has to beindividualized.
The care has to beindividualized.
(19:11):
So what I do to work withindividuals is first understand
what are their most pressingsymptoms, right, what are their
most pressing challenges thatway.
But we also work together in anintegrative way to Come up with
questions for their doctorsright, to really understand
(19:31):
what's happening to their body,to really understand how to
Interpret their blood work andtheir results, to advocate for
themselves, to get specifictesting Based on sometimes.
So I do find that, you know,having that holistic mindset is
very important because, again,it's not just about the
nutrition but it also isn't justabout this one-size-fits-all
(19:54):
approach.
It really has to beindividualized.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yep, yep definitely makes sense.
I appreciate that and to I knowthat you're really big in in
movement and moving your body ina mindful way, in a joyful way.
How do you feel like physicalactivity, movement, plays a role
too in managing your symptoms?
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Oh, yes, it plays a huge role.
Movement is the paramount tohealing.
I mean, the body requiresmovement, not just from a
circulation perspective, butfrom a blood flow perspective is
very important for the blood toflow, to Transport nutrients,
to regenerate the cells, toeliminate waste.
(20:31):
So movement is very important.
I will say in that same regardthat movement can be challenging
for many, especially if you'redealing with chronic pain.
You know I've been there before, where I Was a fitness
instructor and one of my formerlives, and you know movement was
(20:52):
always the forefront of my mind.
It still is.
But there was one point in myhealing journey last year where
I felt like I couldn't move.
I felt like my body wasrestricted and the more movement
that I did, the more pain thatI would be in.
So I know that there is thatchallenge as well.
When someone is dealing withthis pervasive pain, this
(21:14):
chronic pain throughout theirbody, it feels like that their
body is incapable.
But I will also say that if youGet up and stretch, go for a
walk, dan, do something verygentle on the body, the body
will appreciate that and withthe more practice and repetition
(21:34):
and Consistency you'll becomestronger.
You know things don't happenovernight, so it's really about
Turning those moments intomomentum.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Oh, turning those moments into momentum, I like
that.
Yeah, that's fantastic.
So I'm curious too and youtouched on this a little bit,
jenny with that doctor who hadjust said you know, basically
you can eat whatever you want.
But I'm curious how yourExperience with the healthcare
system, how that sort of shaped,how you approach working with
your clients, maybe what you sawor didn't see, and how you
(22:06):
handle that with working withpeople.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah, very powerful question.
Okay, so just for baseline toanswer that question, with my
first player up in 2018, I wasgiven care by the medical team,
by the rheumatologist.
I was giving medication and Iwould say that I recovered
(22:33):
fairly quickly, although I madethat transition into eating more
plants.
But this next time around, in2023, the flare was so much more
aggressive.
The medical care was much moreunpredictable.
I experienced thosemicroaggressions where my
(22:55):
symptoms were disregarded.
I was told that I wasn'tsupposed to feel this much pain.
So it was a very tough partduring my journey, as you can
hear, to experience that in themedical industry, because I
(23:17):
experienced gaslighting and alot of microaggressions
throughout the process.
So it did make me more.
It has made me more resilient.
But I also say that thingshappen for a reason and I know
that I was supposed to gothrough this experience so that
I can be more compassionate tothe people that I work with, so
(23:38):
I can be more understanding whensomeone tells me that they are
experiencing chronic pain andtheir doctor is disregarding
their pain, I understand and Iget it.
So through those experiences, Ihave been able to be more
compassionate but also work withpeople so that they can really
(24:00):
start to dig deeper and figureout what's actually happening in
their body, gain a betterunderstanding of their body, a
better relationship with theirbody.
But, most importantly, becausewe have to work with the Western
medical healthcare system, it'sinevitable, especially in the
(24:20):
society that we live in today,how can we work with these
doctors in a more integrated way?
So I feel like I had to gothrough all of that, that
experience for me to reallyunderstand how do I navigate
this?
But how do I help peopleadvocate for themselves?
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah, absolutely Advocate for things that they're
struggling with that might notbe seen or heard or just not
being listened to it's fullest,and it sounds like you really
try to provide a space for thatfor the people that you work
with, especially and I know youdo it online as well.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
So yes, yes, yes.
It's not easy, especiallyhaving a chronic illness myself,
but I also know that it's veryimportant.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Because it's a space that we don't have access to.
You know, again, just lookingaround, there are not many
people that look like me thatcan be able to say I have
figured out how to listen to mybody and I don't have to feel
lost in this healthcare societybecause I know that I am
(25:24):
listening to my intuition.
Yeah yeah, absolutely Veryimportant.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah.
So what advice would you havefor someone who maybe was
recently diagnosed with lupus,or has had the markers for a
while, or has been sufferingwith their symptoms for a while?
What advice?
Would you have for them.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yeah, I would say, the first thing is to keep
asking questions right.
I mentioned before that it takesabout six years to officially
get diagnosed with lupus.
So some people are morefortunate, depending on their
circumstances, to get diagnosedsooner, but it does take a while
to get diagnosed.
I would say continue to ask thedoctor questions.
(26:04):
So why is?
Why am I experiencing thesesymptoms?
Get second opinions.
It's okay to get secondopinions and third opinions.
That would be the first pieceof advice that we give, and the
second piece is if you are veryserious about the holistic
healing journey, because it iswork you have to commit you have
(26:24):
to commit and you also have totrust the process Right.
You have to really tap into yourintuition, listening to what
your body is telling you, andfind a community, find a space.
Listen to podcasts like this.
There are many support groupsout there.
There are many lupus supportgroups.
You could go to lupusorg.
(26:45):
You could go to the LupusFoundation of America.
You can go to the LupusResearch of Alliance.
There are many resources outthere to find individuals like
yourself that understand whatlupus is, and there are many
resources out there to you know.
Again, get support with thedoctors, but also get into the
(27:08):
holistic healing space and youknow that's why we have
resources like myself.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I was curious becausecommunity is so important.
I think that's such animportant part of this journey
as well.
But if someone maybe is lookingfor a higher level of support,
jenny, where is the best placefor them to connect with you?
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Yeah, so if you would love to connect, if you have
any questions, my DMs are open.
Jenny Mac On Instagram.
You can find me on most of thechannels at Jenny Mac, but also
my website, wwwjennymaccom.
I provide a free clarity callif you're just curious to learn
more about holistic nutrition orholistic healing.
(27:49):
And yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I would start there.
Yep, yep, definitely go over toJenny's Instagram because,
speaking of community, I meanthat's a great, just really
supportive, encouraging what Ibelieve to be, even like
empowering community to kind ofhelp you at least like get you
started on this journey andfinding a community as well.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Thank you, thank you so much, Ashley.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Absolutely Well, Jenny, thank you so much for
being vulnerable and sharingyour story.
I really appreciate you comingon this podcast and talking to
us about your journey.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Thank you so much for having me and looking forward
to reconnecting.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Sounds good, all right, thank you so much for
tuning in today.
Go ahead and check out Jenny atwwwjennymaccom and at her
Instagram at Jenny Mac, whichwe'll link below in the show
notes.
Thank you so much for listeningto the Plant-Centered and
Thriving podcast today.
Welcome to the Plant-Centered and Thriving
Podcast.
I'm your host, ashley Kitchens.
I'm a plant-based registereddietitian and virtual nutrition
mentor.
I was raised on an Angus CattleFarm, grew up with a lot of GI
issues and used the power ofplant-based eating to promote
healing.
Here you'll find inspiration,ideas and encouragement for your
(00:23):
own plant-based journey.
I'm so thrilled you're heretoday.
Let's get started.
Welcome to the showPlant-Centered Listener.
My name is Ashley and I am yourhost today.
And today I have a very specialstory for you.
Imagine being diagnosed with anautoimmune disease and your
doctor tells you to just takeyour medication and eat whatever
(00:45):
you want.
Well, this is where Jenny MaxMission and her story comes into
play.
She is on a mission to guidelupus warriors on a
transformative journey toreclaim vitality through whole
food holistic healing.
Jenny transformed her overallwell-being after being diagnosed
with lupus, sle and kidneynephritis and suffering
(01:08):
debilitating lupus flares.
By transitioning to eatingwhole, nourishing foods from
mother nature and by practicingmindfulness, jenny now has more
mental clarity, energy andpurpose than ever before.
This led her to becoming acertified holistic nutritionist,
(01:28):
autoimmune nutrition specialist, fitness coach and has changed
many lives through clean eating,movement and mindfulness.
Jenny's hope is to empower10,000-plus BIPOC women and
communities in 2024 to livehealthier lives and reclaim
vitality.
Please join me in welcomingJenny to the show.
(01:50):
Jenny, welcome to the show I amso excited to have you here
today, looking forward to thisconversation, me too.
So we actually connected onsocial media, which was
incredible.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yes, and I've been following you for a while now.
I love the work that you aredoing, so it was a no-brainer to
be here today.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Well, thank you so much.
Well, I'm honestly curious tojust kind of get right into it,
and I would love for you to beable to share a little bit about
your diagnosis and kind of justhow initially this affected
your life.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, so.
Okay.
So I have lupus, which issystemic lupus, meaning that it
can attack any of my organs, andthe thing with lupus is that it
affects everyone differently,so there could be long
involvement.
There could be kidneyinvolvement, brain involvement.
It's a very it can be a veryaggressive and unpredictable
(02:46):
disease.
So the onset of my lupus cameabout years before my official
diagnosis.
So, on average, the statisticssay that it takes about six
years to get officiallydiagnosed with lupus, and it was
about 10 years in my casebecause in my early 20s I was
getting the signs of lupus,which is more around joint
(03:11):
inflammation and swelling in myhands and my knees.
But I was in my 20s, so I wantedto live this carefree life, you
know, going out till the weehours of morning, living in New
York City.
So I kind of, you know, put thewhat ifs on the back burner
until 2017.
I was really hit hard with thedisease and that meant that I
(03:34):
had pneumonia-like symptoms, Ihad a fever, I had the flu, even
more joint swelling, chronicpain throughout my entire body.
So that led me to go to arheumatologist who generally
officially diagnosis individualswith lupus, and they said, okay
, you had the markers before.
Now you're having the symptoms,you have lupus, and that was my
(03:58):
journey to self-discovery withlearning about this disease.
It wasn't completely new for me, which we could talk more about
, because my mother also hadlupus, so I learned about lupus
through her diagnosis.
But generationally, individualsthat have lupus, you know, for
30, 40 years, they handle itdifferently to someone that just
(04:20):
becomes diagnosed with lupus.
So yeah, that's my diagnosisstory.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Wow, yeah well, Jenny , I was looking on your
Instagram before coming on hereand you have a pinned real right
now talking about your journey,showing you in the hospital
afterwards.
I mean, you truthfully looklike a shell of who you are now.
I mean just night and daydifference I know you talked
about like you had lost a lot ofweight.
You were in and out of thehospital for many, you know, a
(04:46):
long time.
It's just it's wild to see,sort of looking at you now and
looking at you then, how muchhas changed in just in your
journey and these like changesthat you have made for yourself
which we're going to talk about.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yes, there have been different moments throughout my
lupus journey.
My first diagnosis was in 2017.
2018 was the first time I washospitalized with this disease,
and the same cadence as what youjust recently saw.
I lost a lot of weight.
I was basically malnourished,my body was rejecting food, my
(05:22):
organs were attacking my immunesystem, as they say.
So 2018 was my first exposureto what lupus can do to the body
, and that's really what startedmy holistic healing journey, as
I described, really tappinginto.
Okay, well, I know Westernmedication is life saving, it
(05:43):
has its needs, but what else canI do to take control of my
health?
And that's when I started toexplore the power of eating
plants, using plants as medicine, and that actually got me into
remission with this.
So I was disease free foralmost three years and then
COVID hit.
(06:03):
Covid hit and I caught COVID inJune of 2022.
Finally hit me in June of 2022.
And that's when my health juststarted declining yet again,
which led me to beinghospitalized again in January of
2023.
I was in and out of the hospitalfor about four and a half
(06:23):
months and it hit me even harder.
I lost one third of my bodyweight again, just malnourished,
and had chronic pain from headto toe and there were moments
where I did feel like I wasn'tgoing to make it, but something
in me said you can do this.
You've been here before.
Use the experience that you'velearned throughout this journey,
(06:46):
studying holistic nutrition andreally tapping into self.
So that is what led me heretoday.
Thankfully, I'm here to sharethis story, but it was a lot of
learning.
It was a lot of unlearning, butultimately it was about really
tapping into my intuition tofigure out how to transform my
(07:08):
health.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah, I'm curious.
I have two questions with thattoo is how did you initially
maybe get introduced to aholistic approach to managing
your symptoms, and then whatwere those initial steps that
you first took?
And I'm just curious how thatstarted for you.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yes.
So initially, when I had myfirst severe flare in 2018, I'll
never forget I asked therheumatologist okay, I know I
have to take all of thesemedications, but what do I eat?
And the rheumatologist repliedand said eat whatever you want,
take your medication.
And for me that was a triggerpoint.
(07:49):
That was a moment where thatactually changed my entire
perception of the medicalindustry, because, although I
didn't have the answers then, Iknew deep down inside that that
wasn't the only answer.
I couldn't just eat what Iwanted to and I shouldn't just
(08:10):
only take the medication.
So that led me into doingresearch and I came across the
journey and understanding aboutplant-based nutrition and I
started studying Dr BrookGoldner, for example, and I
heard that she transformed herhealth by eating more plants,
and that really led me down arabbit hole.
(08:32):
And then I also discovered thatthere are only 3% of
nutritionists who are people ofcolor right Nutritionists and
dietitians.
So for me, that led me intothis path to really not only
figure out what I can eat tofeel better with them myself,
but how I can help guide andeducate others on what they
(08:56):
should be eating to transformtheir health.
So that's when I became acertified holistic nutritionist,
and then I went one stepfurther and became certified in
autoimmune nutrition to figureout how to eat foods that were
anti-inflammatory in nature.
And, like I said, I'm human,things happen.
(09:16):
I got sick again, and that'swhen I had to figure out okay,
how do I actually get to theroot cause of my sickness, which
is leading me to the path todayto really focus more on gut
health, because most of ourimmune system lies within our
gut and I know that lupus and alot of other chronic diseases
(09:38):
sort of stem from emotionaltrauma.
So I'm tapping into that spacethere.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Absolutely beautiful and I love it because I, just in
following you, I know thatyou're not just into nutrition,
that you're into this likereally holistic well-being
approach to what it is thatyou're doing.
You're bringing in mindfulness.
This morning I saw you dancingin your yard like just different
things like that.
I mean, we know nutrition isimportant, but gosh, there are
(10:05):
so many other things involvedtoo, even like you're talking
about working through or healingpast trauma, as emotional
traumas like those are, itsounds like a really important
part of this journey.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Absolutely, and yes, it's more than just nutrition.
We are complex beings, so wehave to really bring in the
complexity of life throughmovement, through mindfulness,
through intention, throughlifestyle, through smiling,
through dancing.
So, yeah, it's really importantfor me to show people yes, we
(10:38):
should watch what we put in ourbody, what we put on our body,
but how we're living our liveson a daily basis, how are we
prioritizing ourselves?
How are we bringing back thejoys of our life that we used to
appreciate when we were younger?
Maybe we forgot about thosemoments that made us smile and
(10:58):
laugh.
So, really trying to showpeople that you can live this
wholesome life and it can bejoyous, it can be fun.
It doesn't have to berestrictive either, because
there's a lot of misinformationout there about what we
shouldn't eat.
But what about what we shouldeat?
What about those things that weshould enjoy?
(11:20):
What about the foods that ourancestors ate?
That's something that I'mstarting to go back into,
because in this autoimmune space, there can be areas where
they're telling you oh, youshouldn't eat grains or you
shouldn't eat carbohydrates,Complex carbohydrates.
(11:42):
You know, again, we'recomplexity, we're complex beings
.
We need those complexcarbohydrates for energy and
other vitamins and minerals.
So, yeah, it's all aboutbringing that whole experience
into this and having fun with it.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that fun piece and kindof going back to those things
that really brought us joy andchildhood are so important,
those things that lit us up,that made us smile, where we
would just like go out in theyard and act, you know, just
like a wild person and wewouldn't even care, and it would
bring us so much joy.
I think that is so important.
So I'm curious, jenny, for you,was this sort of like an
(12:17):
overnight thing, or was itsomething that you sort of like
gradually introduced as you weregoing?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, it definitely was a transition.
It was a transition toincorporate more plans into my
day-to-day, into my lifestyle,because growing up, maybe, we
had some collard greens on thetable.
You know, it was verymeat-centric in terms of what we
ate on a daily basis.
(12:44):
A lot of meats and pork wasinfused in the collard greens,
mac and cheese, you know.
So the soulful cuisine wasabundant in our household, and
we also did come from timeswhere we didn't know when our
next meal would be.
You know, we had to eat thefood that was in our
(13:04):
refrigerator, whether that wasramen noodles or mayonnaise
sandwiches.
So there was also this scarcitymindset on top of you better
finish the food on your plate.
So I had to do a lot ofunlearning, as I mentioned
before, unlearning about OK,these are some of those
traditional foods that I grew upeating, but are they actually
(13:26):
hindering us?
Are they making us sicker?
Right, that was one part of it.
But also learning again as I gothrough this new phase.
Those cultural foods some ofthem I should really celebrate,
you know, like the Black EyedPeas, for example, because they
bring the protein, they bringthe complex carbohydrates, they
(13:46):
bring the vitamins and mineralsthat my body needs to sustain.
So it's really understandingthe cultural foods that I should
celebrate, but also those foodsthat can be causing us harm,
making our family sicker, andfinding that balance there.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely Well.
And as you are going throughthis, I'm curious what
challenges you sort of facedwhether it was other people,
whether it was your own healthkind of as you started this
transition and really startedapproaching life in a much more
holistic way.
That was different than maybehow you grew up or how you were
eating and living in your 20s.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Challenge.
Indeed, ashley, that's a verygood question, because
transitioning to this holistichealing space hasn't been easy.
Ok, I'll give an example.
So I had a vegan Thanksgiving.
I had a plant-basedThanksgiving three years ago and
I invited my entire family.
My mom said she would come.
(14:42):
So my mom comes and everythingwas 100% plant-based.
Has never been done before.
She's never enjoyed only plantsbefore, so for her she was
hesitant.
But she also always has beenvery supportive in everything
that I've done.
But she enjoyed it.
(15:02):
She went for a second.
She ate the collard greens.
She really enjoyed the sweetpotato pie, so for her she was
supportive.
She was excited to see what Iwas doing in this space.
So it hasn't been an area thatI would say my family has jumped
on immediately.
But they also see how it'stransformed and changed my life.
(15:25):
And I'll give another example.
I just celebrated my niece'steen, tiniata, which is a
16-year-old birthday party in ElPaso, texas, because my
brother's family is married to aMexican family and we stayed in
the Airbnb together and Idecided that I wanted to cook
(15:46):
breakfast every morning.
So I made oatmeal and youdressed it with nuts and seeds
and fruits.
Again, you get that initialresistance because some of the
family is used to baking an eggin the morning, but they also
wanted to have those familygatherings and moments eating
(16:07):
together and they were veryappreciative of the oatmeal.
My sister came home from thetrip and she asked for the
recipe.
So I also see that noteverybody has been on board with
me from day one, but they arevery supportive of me along the
journey and I do see the smallchanges that people are making
(16:30):
In their own personal lives,which has been exciting.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and it sounds like
you showed people that oatmealdoesn't just have to be like
oats and brown sugar.
It can be so much moreBeautiful.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yeah, and you sweeten it the way that you want to.
You know, okay, maybe brownsugar, maple syrup.
There's so many ways you coulduse dates to sweeten it too.
So, yeah, it could be your ownbeautiful bowl of goodness.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yes, yeah, absolutely so, Jenny.
How is your Journey?
Because it sounds like, I mean,your family has truly noticed
how this has massivelytransformed your health and your
life, with your mom having asimilar, same diagnosis, and we
know that it affects peopledifferently.
How has that maybe your journeyimpacted hers?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, yeah, you know that is a very profound question
because I'm grateful that mymom is still here to, you know,
have her own personal experience.
But we share the experiencestogether.
I do find that I've gottencloser to my mom over this time
of me being diagnosed.
(17:38):
So it's been a good six, sevenyears Since I've been diagnosed,
with the best and justexperiencing the disease
together.
So, you know, there's beentimes where I've been
hospitalized, there's been timeswhere she's been hospitalized
and we're there to support oneanother.
So she's always been supportiveAlong the way.
She's made a lot of changes inher own life as well, being very
(18:02):
mindful about what she's eating.
You know she wants to do more.
We all want to do more, but youknow, I know she's trying her
her best to show up for herselfand the way that she Shares her
love is through her support.
What's my journey as well?
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Yeah, I'm curious to like, justwith your own journey, how you
tailor nutrition advice for theclients that you work with as
well.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yes, big, big one, because, having a chronic
illness, what I've learned formyself and with others is that
Nutrition can mean somethingvery different for individuals
with a chronic condition.
So, for example, I learned alongthe way that I wasn't able to
(18:50):
Tolerate raw foods, for example,for a long time because I
didn't have the gut microbiometo break down and digest the
food Right.
So I do find that working withindividuals in the chronic
illness space, it has to beindividualized.
The care has to beindividualized.
(19:11):
So what I do to work withindividuals is first understand
what are their most pressingsymptoms, right, what are their
most pressing challenges thatway.
But we also work together in anintegrative way to Come up with
questions for their doctorsright, to really understand
(19:31):
what's happening to their body,to really understand how to
Interpret their blood work andtheir results, to advocate for
themselves, to get specifictesting Based on sometimes.
So I do find that, you know,having that holistic mindset is
very important because, again,it's not just about the
nutrition but it also isn't justabout this one-size-fits-all
(19:54):
approach.
It really has to beindividualized.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yep, yep definitely makes sense.
I appreciate that and to I knowthat you're really big in in
movement and moving your body ina mindful way, in a joyful way.
How do you feel like physicalactivity, movement, plays a role
too in managing your symptoms?
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Oh, yes, it plays a huge role.
Movement is the paramount tohealing.
I mean, the body requiresmovement, not just from a
circulation perspective, butfrom a blood flow perspective is
very important for the blood toflow, to Transport nutrients,
to regenerate the cells, toeliminate waste.
(20:31):
So movement is very important.
I will say in that same regardthat movement can be challenging
for many, especially if you'redealing with chronic pain.
You know I've been there before, where I Was a fitness
instructor and one of my formerlives, and you know movement was
(20:52):
always the forefront of my mind.
It still is.
But there was one point in myhealing journey last year where
I felt like I couldn't move.
I felt like my body wasrestricted and the more movement
that I did, the more pain thatI would be in.
So I know that there is thatchallenge as well.
When someone is dealing withthis pervasive pain, this
(21:14):
chronic pain throughout theirbody, it feels like that their
body is incapable.
But I will also say that if youGet up and stretch, go for a
walk, dan, do something verygentle on the body, the body
will appreciate that and withthe more practice and repetition
(21:34):
and Consistency you'll becomestronger.
You know things don't happenovernight, so it's really about
Turning those moments intomomentum.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Oh, turning those moments into momentum, I like
that.
Yeah, that's fantastic.
So I'm curious too and youtouched on this a little bit,
jenny with that doctor who hadjust said you know, basically
you can eat whatever you want.
But I'm curious how yourExperience with the healthcare
system, how that sort of shaped,how you approach working with
your clients, maybe what you sawor didn't see, and how you
(22:06):
handle that with working withpeople.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah, very powerful question.
Okay, so just for baseline toanswer that question, with my
first player up in 2018, I wasgiven care by the medical team,
by the rheumatologist.
I was giving medication and Iwould say that I recovered
(22:33):
fairly quickly, although I madethat transition into eating more
plants.
But this next time around, in2023, the flare was so much more
aggressive.
The medical care was much moreunpredictable.
I experienced thosemicroaggressions where my
(22:55):
symptoms were disregarded.
I was told that I wasn'tsupposed to feel this much pain.
So it was a very tough partduring my journey, as you can
hear, to experience that in themedical industry, because I
(23:17):
experienced gaslighting and alot of microaggressions
throughout the process.
So it did make me more.
It has made me more resilient.
But I also say that thingshappen for a reason and I know
that I was supposed to gothrough this experience so that
I can be more compassionate tothe people that I work with, so
(23:38):
I can be more understanding whensomeone tells me that they are
experiencing chronic pain andtheir doctor is disregarding
their pain, I understand and Iget it.
So through those experiences, Ihave been able to be more
compassionate but also work withpeople so that they can really
(24:00):
start to dig deeper and figureout what's actually happening in
their body, gain a betterunderstanding of their body, a
better relationship with theirbody.
But, most importantly, becausewe have to work with the Western
medical healthcare system, it'sinevitable, especially in the
(24:20):
society that we live in today,how can we work with these
doctors in a more integrated way?
So I feel like I had to gothrough all of that, that
experience for me to reallyunderstand how do I navigate
this?
But how do I help peopleadvocate for themselves?
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah, absolutely Advocate for things that they're
struggling with that might notbe seen or heard or just not
being listened to it's fullest,and it sounds like you really
try to provide a space for thatfor the people that you work
with, especially and I know youdo it online as well.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
So yes, yes, yes.
It's not easy, especiallyhaving a chronic illness myself,
but I also know that it's veryimportant.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Because it's a space that we don't have access to.
You know, again, just lookingaround, there are not many
people that look like me thatcan be able to say I have
figured out how to listen to mybody and I don't have to feel
lost in this healthcare societybecause I know that I am
(25:24):
listening to my intuition.
Yeah yeah, absolutely Veryimportant.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah.
So what advice would you havefor someone who maybe was
recently diagnosed with lupus,or has had the markers for a
while, or has been sufferingwith their symptoms for a while?
What advice?
Would you have for them.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yeah, I would say, the first thing is to keep
asking questions right.
I mentioned before that it takesabout six years to officially
get diagnosed with lupus.
So some people are morefortunate, depending on their
circumstances, to get diagnosedsooner, but it does take a while
to get diagnosed.
I would say continue to ask thedoctor questions.
(26:04):
So why is?
Why am I experiencing thesesymptoms?
Get second opinions.
It's okay to get secondopinions and third opinions.
That would be the first pieceof advice that we give, and the
second piece is if you are veryserious about the holistic
healing journey, because it iswork you have to commit you have
(26:24):
to commit and you also have totrust the process Right.
You have to really tap into yourintuition, listening to what
your body is telling you, andfind a community, find a space.
Listen to podcasts like this.
There are many support groupsout there.
There are many lupus supportgroups.
You could go to lupusorg.
(26:45):
You could go to the LupusFoundation of America.
You can go to the LupusResearch of Alliance.
There are many resources outthere to find individuals like
yourself that understand whatlupus is, and there are many
resources out there to you know.
Again, get support with thedoctors, but also get into the
(27:08):
holistic healing space and youknow that's why we have
resources like myself.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I was curious becausecommunity is so important.
I think that's such animportant part of this journey
as well.
But if someone maybe is lookingfor a higher level of support,
jenny, where is the best placefor them to connect with you?
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Yeah, so if you would love to connect, if you have
any questions, my DMs are open.
Jenny Mac On Instagram.
You can find me on most of thechannels at Jenny Mac, but also
my website, wwwjennymaccom.
I provide a free clarity callif you're just curious to learn
more about holistic nutrition orholistic healing.
(27:49):
And yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I would start there.
Yep, yep, definitely go over toJenny's Instagram because,
speaking of community, I meanthat's a great, just really
supportive, encouraging what Ibelieve to be, even like
empowering community to kind ofhelp you at least like get you
started on this journey andfinding a community as well.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Thank you, thank you so much, Ashley.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Absolutely Well, Jenny, thank you so much for
being vulnerable and sharingyour story.
I really appreciate you comingon this podcast and talking to
us about your journey.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Thank you so much for having me and looking forward
to reconnecting.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Sounds good, all right, thank you so much for
tuning in today.
Go ahead and check out Jenny atwwwjennymaccom and at her
Instagram at Jenny Mac, whichwe'll link below in the show
notes.
Thank you so much for listeningto the Plant-Centered and
Thriving podcast today.
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