February 5, 2024 • 34 mins
"You haven't had bad tofu, you've only had tofu prepared badly"
When Phoenix first peered behind the curtain of factory farming in middle school, they couldn't unsee the truth. From navigating family dynamics to adapting culinary techniques in a trade school kitchen, their experiences are as varied as they are enlightening. As Phoenix reminisces about their recent three-month sojourn in Italy, they provide tips and cultural cues for vegan travelers exploring the gastronomic landscapes abroad. Join us for an episode that promises to enrich your palate and your perspective, whether you're vegan or simply curious about the plant-powered way of life.
If you want to connect with Phoenix, visit the following:
Instagram: @AngelOfHarmony000
_____________________________________________________________________
WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU!
Have a question, suggestion or comment for the podcast? Fill out form here
Plant Centered Nutrition Essential Resources:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Plant-Centered and Thriving
Podcast.
I'm your host, ashley Kitchens.
I'm a plant-based registereddietitian and virtual nutrition
mentor.
I was raised on an Angus CattleFarm, grew up with a lot of GI
issues and used the power ofplant-based eating to promote
healing.
Here you'll find inspiration,ideas and encouragement for your
(00:23):
own plant-based journey.
I'm so thrilled you're heretoday.
Let's get started.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome Plant-Centered listeners.
My name is Katie and I amthrilled you are here with me
today.
I will be your host, and I amso excited to welcome Phoenix,
our guest today, who is going tobe talking all about vegan
travel.
If you have traveled overseasand maybe you have thought about
(00:54):
it, maybe you've wanted to,maybe you've had a bad
experience.
Phoenix has just recently comeback from living abroad in Italy
for three months while vegan,and so their point of view is so
interesting, and I just can'tnot wait to share their story
with you, as well as some tipsand tricks about traveling while
(01:18):
vegan.
So buckle up, get ready for thestory of Phoenix.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Welcome Phoenix to the show.
We're so happy that you arehere.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Thank you for having me.
I'm glad that I get to talk alittle bit about veganism, which
I'm so passionate about, andshare that with the wider
audience.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Yes, we love our passionate vegans.
We are so glad you're here andwe've never met before, but we
do have a very specialconnection.
I had the privilege and honorof being your mother, Rachelle
being her nutrition coach forquite a few months, and she has
always been one of my favoritesand she made beautiful progress,
(02:01):
so that's kind of how we gotconnected.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Yeah, my mom has said such great things about you and
she's been kind oftransitioning to being vegan
recently, so she really wantedme to do this.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
You coming in.
It's kind of a flip-flop fromwhat we usually hear.
Usually the parents come in andthey kind of start their
plant-based journey or theirvegan journey and then the kids
just kind of follow suit.
So this is an interestingdichotomy where you started your
vegan journey really, reallyearly, so that makes your story
(02:37):
very unique.
Can you tell us a little bitabout how that started way back
when?
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Yeah, so I was in middle school and I was just
flipping through YouTube videosand I came across some videos
about how animals are treated infactory farms and how common
factory farms are, and showed alot of videos about what
(03:02):
happened.
And I, of course immediatelywas disgusted and thought how
can this even happen?
And so then at the end of thevideo it said like but you can
help by going vegan.
And so I decided that from thatpoint, whenever I sat down for
a meal, I was going to watch avideo of how, of where that food
(03:24):
came from.
And if I couldn't eat the foodafter watching the video, then
you know that was probablysomething I didn't want in my
diet.
I think it was like two dayslater I kind of forgot that I
had made that promise and I washalfway through a very meaty
bacon cheeseburger and then Iremembered, oh yeah, like I
(03:50):
wanted to do this thing.
I wanted to stop eating as muchmeat.
So I went online, I looked athow dairy and beef were produced
, which they're really just thesame industry.
After watching those videos, Iwas too disgusted to finish my
burger and so I just put it inthe fridge for someone else to
(04:11):
finish and I found somethingelse to eat for dinner that
night.
Then I kind of just wenteschatarian because I had a hard
time like empathizing with seacreatures at first.
I didn't quite see their pain aseasily.
And so for about a year and ahalf I pretty much was mostly
(04:36):
vegan, but just ate fish andother sea creatures and like
fish oil and stuff like that.
And then one day I saw a videoon Instagram of a pot of boiling
soup with a crawfish hanging onfor dear life on the edge of
the pot, and at that point Icould see, wow, sea creatures
(04:59):
want to live just like us.
They, they haveself-preservation, they can feel
pain.
They, they can tell what'sabout to happen to them and it
scares them.
They really don't want that tohappen.
So that was kind of the turningpoint to fully go vegan.
And so, yeah, around that pointI Fully stopped eating sea
(05:22):
creatures.
I'd already cut out all othertypes of meats, though it wasn't
that difficult to just, youknow, stop eating sushi and get
my Omega fatty acids fromplant-based pills instead of
fish oil pills, and yeah, soafter making that, I've I've
pretty much went vegan and havenever gone back.
(05:43):
My mom Didn't entirely knowwhat to do at first.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
A lot of kids, you know, kind of go through this
phases of Going vegetarian,because they do start to, you
know, have more autonomy.
They're doing their ownresearch and, and you know so
many of us grow up with dogs andpets and we have this empathy
for animals, but we also don'thave the ability to control the
(06:11):
grocery store, shopping ormaking our own dinner.
So a lot of times thoseintentions kind of get shut down
by just the Everyday of howfamily life works and the
logistics and things.
So how did you manage that withyour family?
What did they think when youmade this declaration?
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Both of my older sisters at one point had gone
vegetarian for like a Weaker amonth or so and then quit it,
and so they kind of thoughtYou're probably just going
through the same phase that theydid like I doubt this will last
, but then you know, time, can Ijust?
I?
was still vegan and they're likeoh yes, this wasn't a phase
(06:52):
after all.
My mom luckily she was prettyshe was pretty supportive with
buying vegan food.
I remember, even before I wentvegan, she would sometimes try
these like plant-based hot dogsand yes.
I'm a kid.
I tried them and I thoughtApparently they improve the
recipe and so she would buy themfor me again and I was like, oh
(07:13):
, this wasn't as bad as Ithought as a kid.
At first I did still have arather unhealthy diet.
I would still eat most like abunch of hyper refined carbs.
They still had like no fiber inmy diet, still wasn't really
eating vegetables.
I just it sounds crazy beingvegan without vegetables.
But no, it was almost entirelyjust like grains and legumes and
(07:36):
then I might have like PB&JSandwiches and stuff like that,
but still very much a eater.
At first I did lose a lot ofweight, but I wouldn't say it
was an unhealthy amount.
I weighed more than the averagekid at that age.
After losing weight my weightactually stabilized an extreme
amount like it Basically hasonly ever fluctuated by like a
(08:01):
couple pounds in an entire yearsince I've gone vegan.
So like my weight has becomemuch more healthy, much more
stable.
My parents were a littleconcerned when there was like
the very quick sudden Drop-offand weight, which is fair.
If I was them I would have beenconcerned about that too.
But yeah, luckily it ended upnot being a bad thing.
(08:24):
It was kind of a false alarm.
Over time I realized okay, ifI'm vegan, I I'm gonna have to
try some stuff that I'm not usedto or that I thought I don't
like.
I Would try new vegetables.
I remember trying tofu for thefirst time.
I tried it out like this is.
This is interesting.
(08:44):
It's like the textures sostrange.
I'm not used to it.
It was a little bit likedaunting, just trying something
new that I didn't entirely knowwhat it was.
But after I give it a shot, asI tried more and more tofu stuff
, I realized that it's all aboutpreparation and so even if you
have bad tofu, that means thatit was prepared bad, not
(09:07):
necessarily that tofu is bad.
It's kind of like with anything, like there's nothing worse
than a dry, bland chickenthere's.
In the same way, there'snothing worse than, you know,
bland and seasoned tofu.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
I love that you bring up that point because for some
reason, going vegan it's likethese really high Expectations
are put on these differentingredients, especially tofu.
It's like the poster child ofgoing plant-based.
And you're exactly right,there's nothing worse than bad
tofu.
But it's just like anything.
Just because you have one badhamburger doesn't mean you're
(09:43):
you swear off hamburgers forever.
You just try differentpreparation that that works with
kind of your taste buds.
So it's the exact same thingfor for vegan food.
So I love that you were in thatkind of experimental phase and
and pushing yourself to to havemore, have more veggies, because
we've all been there.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Yeah, that was definitely probably the biggest
hurdle when it came to that wasjust Incorporating new foods
into my diet, and especiallywhen some of them are sound kind
of weird because, uh, we'rekind of used to the same three
foods, you know, chickens, pigsand cows, but they're over
10,000 food like plant-basedfoods.
(10:22):
That's just ingredients, noteven counting dishes that you
can make with those foods.
When you're used to such asmall palette, it can be scary
to try new foods that you'venever heard of or you're not
entirely sure what they are.
But you know.
Luckily we live in the age ofthe internet, so if that's ever
an issue you can just look uphey, what is this thing?
(10:43):
Where does it come from?
It takes like 10 seconds andthat can help overcome the fear
of trying those new foods.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Yeah, there's a recipe for anything.
I used to really loved going toRed Lobster and eating the
Cheddar Bay Biscuits, and soI've had this vegan recipe for
the biscuits forever and I'mgoing to try it one day.
But yeah, I don't know what wedid without Google before.
It must have been really hardto be a plant-based person, but
I'm so glad that the peoplenowadays don't have to worry
(11:13):
about that because there's arecipe literally for anything,
so we don't have to miss out.
So I know you were mentioningkind of how your family were
pretty open and supportive.
How about your peers and yourfriends?
Were you kind of the odd personout?
Did they treat you differently?
Like how did you deal withgoing to birthday parties and
(11:33):
birthday cake, that kind ofthing?
Speaker 4 (11:35):
Well, at the time I was still being homeschooled.
So I was homeschooled up untilhigh school.
So I had a solid year beforegoing to public school where I
was transitioning to plant-based.
But I would still have someclasses in person with friends
and I was a little bit of theodd one out.
(11:57):
Something that I findinteresting, that I didn't quite
realize at first, is when yousay that you're vegan, people
feel like they have the right tosay what you can and can't eat,
even when you're justtransitioning to being vegan,
even if you're not quite thereyet.
They'll think, oh no, this thinghas the tiniest bit of cheese
(12:18):
and you're trying to be vegan,so you have to go with this
super bland, boring option, eventhough you're not fully vegan
yet.
I find that can be a bit hardwhen you're really focusing on
just cutting out one thing at atime.
Sometimes people don'tunderstand that and they'll
think, oh no, you have to be allvegan or nothing like.
(12:39):
There's no in between.
A lot of vegans transitioned tobeing vegan and didn't just,
you know, wake up one day andboom, suddenly they never ate
animals or any products again.
I had some friends who wantedto go vegan around my same age,
but their parents weren't quiteas supportive and so they didn't
end up going through with it.
But yeah, I think as a parentit's very important to give your
(13:03):
kid that space to explore itand not kind of push them
towards you know oh, not beingvegan.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Absolutely, and I love that.
You made the point that youknow there's a transition period
, that it doesn't have to be allor nothing, that you can allow
yourself to use the label of yes, I'm trying to eat more
plant-based, I'm trying to govegan, but I'm not quite there
yet.
But just because I'm stilleating cheese but everything
(13:33):
else is gone doesn't mean I'mkicked out of the club.
It means I'm doing the bestthat I can.
So I love that that you knowyou had the space and the
support to make that transition.
I think that's such a goodreminder for people out there
that you know you can let peopleknow that it's a process.
It doesn't have to be an all ornothing type of thing.
So I know that's a struggle formany of our listeners.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
You're not less vegan just because you know you're on
your way but not quite thereyet.
You're still making that effortand that's what matters, which.
I've heard some vegans be veryharsh against people who do that
and say, oh, like being halfwayvegan is worse than being an
(14:16):
omnivore, when really it's not.
It's like it's not enough.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
The mask doesn't add up.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Exactly Like if everyone in the US just went 80%
and 80% vegan.
That's so much better than youknow, with half the population
went 100% vegan.
Like it's all about you knowdoing as much as you can, and if
it's not easy to cut out thingsovernight, it's okay to take
(14:46):
that time and work on cuttingout one thing at a time.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
For sure, for sure.
So to fast forward a little bit, after high school you're
trying to decide okay, I'm goingto go to school and I'm going
to study something in particular.
So I know you mentioned youwere interested in the culinary
arts at one point.
Did being vegan, did thatinfluence that choice?
(15:11):
Or have you just been kind of alover of cooking?
Speaker 4 (15:14):
I've always loved culinary arts.
I even as a kid I would I wouldattempt to cook and bake.
I definitely had my fair shareof horrible disasters that were
basically inedible, but you know, I kept cooking ever since I
(15:34):
was a kid and I loved helping inthe kitchen and I really just
loved food and the art andscience of food, and I think
it's one of the few places whereart and science really come
together and work beautifully.
Yeah, and so it definitely gotstronger as it became vegan,
(15:56):
because I wanted to make my ownmeals and cook tofu the way that
I like it, rather than having,you know, the hellish bland tofu
.
Then I did go to a trade schoolthat is targeted towards high
schoolers so they can get atrade certification by the time
(16:17):
they graduate, and luckily, Iwas able to get that
certification the year that Igraduated and so I did that, and
luckily, my chef was also veryopen about me being vegan.
She had one rule, which was youalways have to at least try
(16:39):
something, but she made theexception of if you're like
vegan, vegetarian, or I don'teat something for religious
reasons, then that's the onecase where, okay, you don't have
to try stuff, but that wasreally nice, and she would also
help me veganize the recipesthat we were learning in class.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Fantastic.
Wow, that's so nice that youhad an instructor like that,
because sometimes the ones on TVyou see they're not so nice.
So, going through this, thistrade school do you have?
And being vegan, do you haveany like?
If you could pick like one ortwo good tips or tricks in the
kitchen, do you have any thatyou can share with our listeners
?
Speaker 4 (17:18):
I'll share one tip for cooking and one for baking.
For people who love cooking, donot be afraid to use
plant-based oils like olive oil,canola oil.
I know we're often taught that,oh, fat is bad, but plant-based
fats with the exception ofcoconut oil, which it's a whole
thing why that's an exceptionbut for pretty much any other
(17:39):
oil it's going to be so healthyfor you and not have pretty much
any of the negative sideeffects that come with eating
animal fats, and so don't beafraid to use that.
That is a great way to get thatmacronutrients into your diet
and to just make your food tastebetter.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Right flavor, Exactly .
Speaker 4 (18:00):
And then for baking.
One thing that I learned isplant-based butters tend to have
a different water to fat ratio,so there's a lot more water her
amount of fat, and so whenbaking, make sure to look at how
much water is in the butter.
You can do that by saying, okay, a serving size is like 20
(18:24):
grams, and then it's like 10grams of fat and 2 grams of
sugar, so that means there's 8grams of water left, and so it's
important to look at that andkind of adjust the recipe, maybe
add a little bit less liquid ora little bit more butter or
extra like plant-based oil inthe recipe.
If you don't do that, thatextra water can ruin some
(18:49):
recipes, especially stuff likepie crust, which is very
sensitive and needs only a tinyamount of water.
That can make a huge difference.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Oh wow, that's super technical.
I love that.
I love that tip for trick.
I burn water, so I'm not gonnabe doing any baking any time
soon, but our listeners outthere, that's such a good tip.
I can't wait to show that one.
So while you're in school, youhad the opportunity to study
abroad, which you just recentlyreturned from right I just came
back from Rome, italy.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
I studied there for three months.
I'm currently a computerscience major, so I switched
from culinary arts to a moretechnical field.
But I was able to take a fewelective classes there and one
of the classes was actually aItalian food culture class which
I learned so much in.
(19:42):
It was technically a sociologyclass, but we also got to try a
few foods and even get a lecturefrom an olive farmer from
Umbria, which is the regionnorth of Lazio, and Lazio is the
region that Rome is in and hewas able to tell us how to pick
(20:04):
good olive oil.
And we got to try threedifferent olive oils one was
fresh, one was a month old andone was like three months old
and the difference between fresholive oil and even just one
month old olive oil was insane,which makes me kind of sad that
we can't get fresh olive oileasily here yeah, there's the
(20:30):
rub, it pretty much everythingyou see on shelves here in the
US is at least a month old,which really it makes such a
huge difference, which I didn'trealize.
But yeah, it was very nice beingable to explore Italian food
culture and also talk to vegansin Italy as well.
I noticed that there were a lotmore people who were so-called
(20:55):
like quasi vegan, also in Franceas well.
I was able to visit Franceduring my time there and there
were a lot of people who atealmost entirely vegan, but they
also weren't nearly as strictabout oh, if this thing has like
less than 2% milk protein, likeyou know, I'll pick an
alternative if it's there, butif not, I'm not really gonna
(21:17):
care, which I definitely don'twant to discourage people who
are already vegan to introducethat stuff back into their diet.
But I think it's Also nice tohave that mindset as a new vegan
.
When you're just figuring stuffout, it can be helpful to focus
on the big picture stuff, and Isaw that a lot more in Italy,
(21:39):
and people also Seem to not bequite as judgmental.
If a vegan person over therehad something with the tiniest
trace of milk, they wouldn't say, oh, you're not vegan anymore.
They'd just be like like, oh, Ididn't know, that had a tiny
amount of milk in it or whatever.
And, yeah, I think not havingthat judgment was Very important
(22:04):
to let people be vegan.
But I think that also partiallycomes with a lack of
understanding.
In Italy, one time I went to arestaurant and when I told the
server that I was vegan, shesaid Okay, so what don't you eat
?
And I said okay, I don't eatlike meat or fish, because in
Italian it's two different wordsDairy or egg.
(22:26):
And she said, okay, so youdon't eat anything.
I was like, no, they're quite alot of food.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Well, that is kind of the impression that you get,
especially when you're thinkingabout France and in Italy, at
least from an Americanperspective, that you think of
pasta and cheese and lots ofbutter, especially in these,
like very traditional Dishes,and that they're very proud and
it's part of their culture thatthey make the best cheeses in
(22:53):
the world and the best Pasta inthe world.
So questioning that is almostlike you're questioning their
culture.
So so how was that Kind ofperception did you?
Did you experience any pushbackfrom people about Not turning
your nose up but saying do youhave a vegan pasta?
Speaker 4 (23:13):
Luckily, I didn't have much pushback with pasta,
because most pasta in Italy isactually Made from semolina
flour, which doesn't need eggwhen you make it, although there
is, of course, egg pasta aswell.
But there were some people whodidn't entirely understand what
vegan meant.
So one time I went to a winetasting and they serve various
(23:37):
foods that went with the wineand For some of the dishes
they'd bring out a plate of likecheese and balsamic vinegar and
then I'd be like, oh, now I'mvegan.
And they're like it was justcheese and it's like, oh wait,
yeah, cheese and then vegan.
Sorry, we get something else.
There were definitely a lot ofpeople who didn't entirely
understand or had a hard timethinking of Vegan foods, but
(23:59):
when you really thought about it, there were plenty of vegan
foods there, such as Spaghetti,basil and tomato sauce that I
saw that a lot in Romespecifically.
Each region in Rome in France,is going to have its own unique
food culture and so You'll haveto look at what, what dishes are
there and what vegan optionsare in that region, because,
(24:21):
like Enables, the food that theyhave there is completely
different than what they have inRome.
It varies so much dependingjust on where you are.
Luckily, the friends that Imade there were quite accepting
and I even had an Italian friendwho had me over and he made
three course Italian meal and hecried really hard.
(24:46):
By the end he decided on pesto,but the pesto that he got had a
little bit of parmesan cheesein it.
Yeah so, like I mentioned it,and he was like oh no, we can do
something else.
And I I thought Well, youalready put so much work into
this, we can do pesto.
Just next time, know that thishas parmesan in it.
So luckily I was able to makefriends who really went above
(25:10):
and beyond with helping me likefind vegan restaurants and vegan
Italian dishes, and so that wasvery nice.
One of my main friends was overthere, was already vegetarian,
so he was more than happy toyeah try all of the vegan
restaurants with me.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
So what was that access like?
In terms of vegan restaurants,were there a lot of them.
Did you Really enjoy them?
Comparatively to a traditionalItalian restaurant?
What was that like?
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Luckily, rome is the second best city to be vegan,
and when it comes to Italy, ithas good.
I think 11 vegan restaurants inthe city.
There's fully vegan restaurants.
That's not even places justwith options and yeah.
So I was very lucky to have aplethora of restaurants to
(25:59):
choose from, and I was able totry a lot of Traditional foods
that were made vegan.
There was one that I reallyliked called the refugio romano,
which is Italian for Romanrefuge.
It originally wasn't a veganrestaurant, but they became
vegan at one point and yeah, andthey had the most amazing Roman
(26:25):
food.
They also had a few dishes fromother regions of Italy, but
they had some of the best food.
I can't wait to go back already,and so luckily, I had a lot of
access in Rome.
I think it can be a little bitmore difficult in Southern Italy
to find those fully veganplaces, but in southern Italy
(26:45):
they also naturally eat a lotmore plant-based, so there will
be a lot of options that justaren't labeled as vegan or
vegetarian, but if you keep youreye out and ask what's in stuff
, there will always be options,although one thing to keep in
mind is in Italy you nevermodify the dish that you're
asking for, so you don't ask, oh, can I have this, but without
(27:07):
the cheese?
I would recommend findingplaces that have vegan options
already on the menu, which Inever saw a single restaurant
there that didn't have at leastone already vegan option.
But don't be that picky touristwho's like oh can I have this,
but can you?
Speaker 3 (27:22):
completely change the dish.
Don't be that American.
Exactly, Phoenix.
I know you speak five languages, so I'm assuming you got to
practice your Italian.
So if you have some Englishspeakers going over to Italy to
travel and maybe their Italianis not advanced, do you have any
(27:42):
tips or tricks for what theycan do to let the waiter know
that they're vegan, or what tolook for on the menu?
Speaker 4 (27:50):
A phrase that is very useful is sono vegana, which
means I am vegan.
That's how a woman would say it, and if you're a man, you would
say sono vegano.
If you're a non-binary person,you'd say something that sounds
almost identical to the feminineversion.
So you can just use that,because the nuance is kind of
(28:11):
hard to get down if you don'tspeak Italian.
And if you're vegetarian, youcan say sono vegeteriana or
vegeteriano, depending on yourgender.
And if they aren't quite surewhat that means, you can say
which means I don't eat meat orfish, because in Italian that's
(28:34):
a different word Meat, fish, eggor milk.
I had to use that a few timesand people didn't understand,
but if you go to the veganrestaurants, you won't have to
worry about saying any of that.
And stuff to look out for on themenu was prosciutto, which is
pig meat.
It comes from their cheeks.
Sometimes on the translatedversion of the menu it will say
(28:57):
bacon instead, so that's easierto spot.
But if you don't see baconanywhere, watch out for
prosciutto, because that is notvegan or vegetarian.
You can also look out for cremaor wolva, which are cream and
egg.
As for cheeses, they generallysay the type of cheese on the
(29:18):
menu.
So I would just kind offamiliarize yourself with the
most common types of Italiancheeses.
Like cacio e pepe is a dishthat has cheese in it, but you
probably wouldn't see the wordcheese on in the description
because they'd say the specifictype of cheese.
So that's the main stuff towatch out for.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Yeah, those are great tips, and now I'm very hungry
for travel and Italian food.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
I highly recommend it .
They also ate some animals thatwe don't eat in the US.
The most common one, in Romespecifically, was horses.
They do eat horses and, yeah,they also eat various parts of
the animals that we don't eat.
There's one dish specificallywith a the intestine of a baby
(30:08):
cow with the mother's milk stillinside, which, yeah, it can be
a bit gory just looking at, justlearning about what's on the
menu at those places, so thatwas quite shocking, but there
are plenty of vegan restaurantswhere you can go to and you
don't have to worry about any ofthat.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
How about the animal rights scene?
Is it mostly, probably theyounger generation, that are
bringing that to attention?
Speaker 4 (30:37):
Yeah, definitely.
Well, the south of Italy doesalready eat a lot of plant-based
and vegetarian food becauseit's much cheaper over there
than eating meat, because plantfoods are subsidized rather than
meat being subsidized.
In the rest of Italy it'smostly the younger generation
(30:58):
going fully vegan and speakingup more against dairy and eggs,
and pretty much all of thevegans that I met there were
rather young.
There were some older vegansthat I met, but it was mostly
quite young people.
But young people tend to createchange in any culture.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Absolutely so interesting I love.
One of my favorite things is totravel, so I love that you got
the opportunity to go andexperience a new culture and try
the food as a vegan, and maybenot on purpose, but be
representative of someone who'sexcited about trying new things
from the US and stillappreciating the history and the
(31:45):
culture, but presentingsomething new and letting them
know that the demand, thetourist demand, is there, that
we appreciate having those veganoptions while traveling.
So for all you listeners outthere, hopefully this inspired
you to maybe not be so nervouslike oh, I'm not going to go
there this year because Iwouldn't have anything to eat.
(32:06):
So I love that.
Especially in Rome, we have 11options of restaurants, so that
makes me very excited.
Speaker 4 (32:13):
Yes, I would do your research for Florence if you go
there, or Pisa, because I wouldsay that was the least vegan
friendly city that I found whilethere.
There are options, but you haveto certainly do your research a
bit more there than with otherplaces.
It's not quite as easy to justlook up oh, where's a vegan
restaurant?
(32:34):
Oh, there are five withinwalking distance.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
I'm sure it's easy to get spoiled for those types of
places.
For sure and I think that's agood overall tip for most
plant-based eaters whentraveling is you have to put in
a little bit of planning if youwant to take that stress out of
it of kind of getting to a placeand realizing, okay, I have,
there's nothing, there's nooptions here.
(32:57):
If I had planned a little bitbetter, maybe I would have made
a bit different choice.
So I think that planning aspectis such a good reminder for
sure.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
It's been great getting to chat with you and
share my experience with all ofyour listeners.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Yes, phoenix, we are so happy that you decided to
join us today.
Someone has a question aboutItaly or maybe studying the
culinary arts as a vegan, andthey want to reach out to you.
What's the best place that theycan?
Speaker 4 (33:23):
I would say the easiest place that most people
have is Instagram.
My Instagram is Angel ofHarmony, with three zeros at the
end, all one word.
And I am not always on there 24seven.
But if you messaged me on thereI'm pretty likely to get back
to you, at least within a coupledays.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Those of you listening.
We are so happy you decided tojoin us today.
Hopefully this inspired somefuture travels and we will see
you next time.
Thank you, phoenix.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Thank you Bye.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Bye.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Thank you so much for listening to the Plant Centered
and Thriving podcast today.
If you found this episodeinspiring, please share it with
a friend or post it on socialmedia and tag me so I can
personally say thank you.
Until next time, keep thriving.
Welcome to the Plant-Centered and Thriving
Podcast.
I'm your host, ashley Kitchens.
I'm a plant-based registereddietitian and virtual nutrition
mentor.
I was raised on an Angus CattleFarm, grew up with a lot of GI
issues and used the power ofplant-based eating to promote
healing.
Here you'll find inspiration,ideas and encouragement for your
(00:23):
own plant-based journey.
I'm so thrilled you're heretoday.
Let's get started.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome Plant-Centered listeners.
My name is Katie and I amthrilled you are here with me
today.
I will be your host, and I amso excited to welcome Phoenix,
our guest today, who is going tobe talking all about vegan
travel.
If you have traveled overseasand maybe you have thought about
(00:54):
it, maybe you've wanted to,maybe you've had a bad
experience.
Phoenix has just recently comeback from living abroad in Italy
for three months while vegan,and so their point of view is so
interesting, and I just can'tnot wait to share their story
with you, as well as some tipsand tricks about traveling while
(01:18):
vegan.
So buckle up, get ready for thestory of Phoenix.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Welcome Phoenix to the show.
We're so happy that you arehere.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Thank you for having me.
I'm glad that I get to talk alittle bit about veganism, which
I'm so passionate about, andshare that with the wider
audience.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Yes, we love our passionate vegans.
We are so glad you're here andwe've never met before, but we
do have a very specialconnection.
I had the privilege and honorof being your mother, Rachelle
being her nutrition coach forquite a few months, and she has
always been one of my favoritesand she made beautiful progress,
(02:01):
so that's kind of how we gotconnected.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Yeah, my mom has said such great things about you and
she's been kind oftransitioning to being vegan
recently, so she really wantedme to do this.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
You coming in.
It's kind of a flip-flop fromwhat we usually hear.
Usually the parents come in andthey kind of start their
plant-based journey or theirvegan journey and then the kids
just kind of follow suit.
So this is an interestingdichotomy where you started your
vegan journey really, reallyearly, so that makes your story
(02:37):
very unique.
Can you tell us a little bitabout how that started way back
when?
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Yeah, so I was in middle school and I was just
flipping through YouTube videosand I came across some videos
about how animals are treated infactory farms and how common
factory farms are, and showed alot of videos about what
(03:02):
happened.
And I, of course immediatelywas disgusted and thought how
can this even happen?
And so then at the end of thevideo it said like but you can
help by going vegan.
And so I decided that from thatpoint, whenever I sat down for
a meal, I was going to watch avideo of how, of where that food
(03:24):
came from.
And if I couldn't eat the foodafter watching the video, then
you know that was probablysomething I didn't want in my
diet.
I think it was like two dayslater I kind of forgot that I
had made that promise and I washalfway through a very meaty
bacon cheeseburger and then Iremembered, oh yeah, like I
(03:50):
wanted to do this thing.
I wanted to stop eating as muchmeat.
So I went online, I looked athow dairy and beef were produced
, which they're really just thesame industry.
After watching those videos, Iwas too disgusted to finish my
burger and so I just put it inthe fridge for someone else to
(04:11):
finish and I found somethingelse to eat for dinner that
night.
Then I kind of just wenteschatarian because I had a hard
time like empathizing with seacreatures at first.
I didn't quite see their pain aseasily.
And so for about a year and ahalf I pretty much was mostly
(04:36):
vegan, but just ate fish andother sea creatures and like
fish oil and stuff like that.
And then one day I saw a videoon Instagram of a pot of boiling
soup with a crawfish hanging onfor dear life on the edge of
the pot, and at that point Icould see, wow, sea creatures
(04:59):
want to live just like us.
They, they haveself-preservation, they can feel
pain.
They, they can tell what'sabout to happen to them and it
scares them.
They really don't want that tohappen.
So that was kind of the turningpoint to fully go vegan.
And so, yeah, around that pointI Fully stopped eating sea
(05:22):
creatures.
I'd already cut out all othertypes of meats, though it wasn't
that difficult to just, youknow, stop eating sushi and get
my Omega fatty acids fromplant-based pills instead of
fish oil pills, and yeah, soafter making that, I've I've
pretty much went vegan and havenever gone back.
(05:43):
My mom Didn't entirely knowwhat to do at first.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
A lot of kids, you know, kind of go through this
phases of Going vegetarian,because they do start to, you
know, have more autonomy.
They're doing their ownresearch and, and you know so
many of us grow up with dogs andpets and we have this empathy
for animals, but we also don'thave the ability to control the
(06:11):
grocery store, shopping ormaking our own dinner.
So a lot of times thoseintentions kind of get shut down
by just the Everyday of howfamily life works and the
logistics and things.
So how did you manage that withyour family?
What did they think when youmade this declaration?
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Both of my older sisters at one point had gone
vegetarian for like a Weaker amonth or so and then quit it,
and so they kind of thoughtYou're probably just going
through the same phase that theydid like I doubt this will last
, but then you know, time, can Ijust?
I?
was still vegan and they're likeoh yes, this wasn't a phase
(06:52):
after all.
My mom luckily she was prettyshe was pretty supportive with
buying vegan food.
I remember, even before I wentvegan, she would sometimes try
these like plant-based hot dogsand yes.
I'm a kid.
I tried them and I thoughtApparently they improve the
recipe and so she would buy themfor me again and I was like, oh
(07:13):
, this wasn't as bad as Ithought as a kid.
At first I did still have arather unhealthy diet.
I would still eat most like abunch of hyper refined carbs.
They still had like no fiber inmy diet, still wasn't really
eating vegetables.
I just it sounds crazy beingvegan without vegetables.
But no, it was almost entirelyjust like grains and legumes and
(07:36):
then I might have like PB&JSandwiches and stuff like that,
but still very much a eater.
At first I did lose a lot ofweight, but I wouldn't say it
was an unhealthy amount.
I weighed more than the averagekid at that age.
After losing weight my weightactually stabilized an extreme
amount like it Basically hasonly ever fluctuated by like a
(08:01):
couple pounds in an entire yearsince I've gone vegan.
So like my weight has becomemuch more healthy, much more
stable.
My parents were a littleconcerned when there was like
the very quick sudden Drop-offand weight, which is fair.
If I was them I would have beenconcerned about that too.
But yeah, luckily it ended upnot being a bad thing.
(08:24):
It was kind of a false alarm.
Over time I realized okay, ifI'm vegan, I I'm gonna have to
try some stuff that I'm not usedto or that I thought I don't
like.
I Would try new vegetables.
I remember trying tofu for thefirst time.
I tried it out like this is.
This is interesting.
(08:44):
It's like the textures sostrange.
I'm not used to it.
It was a little bit likedaunting, just trying something
new that I didn't entirely knowwhat it was.
But after I give it a shot, asI tried more and more tofu stuff
, I realized that it's all aboutpreparation and so even if you
have bad tofu, that means thatit was prepared bad, not
(09:07):
necessarily that tofu is bad.
It's kind of like with anything, like there's nothing worse
than a dry, bland chickenthere's.
In the same way, there'snothing worse than, you know,
bland and seasoned tofu.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
I love that you bring up that point because for some
reason, going vegan it's likethese really high Expectations
are put on these differentingredients, especially tofu.
It's like the poster child ofgoing plant-based.
And you're exactly right,there's nothing worse than bad
tofu.
But it's just like anything.
Just because you have one badhamburger doesn't mean you're
(09:43):
you swear off hamburgers forever.
You just try differentpreparation that that works with
kind of your taste buds.
So it's the exact same thingfor for vegan food.
So I love that you were in thatkind of experimental phase and
and pushing yourself to to havemore, have more veggies, because
we've all been there.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Yeah, that was definitely probably the biggest
hurdle when it came to that wasjust Incorporating new foods
into my diet, and especiallywhen some of them are sound kind
of weird because, uh, we'rekind of used to the same three
foods, you know, chickens, pigsand cows, but they're over
10,000 food like plant-basedfoods.
(10:22):
That's just ingredients, noteven counting dishes that you
can make with those foods.
When you're used to such asmall palette, it can be scary
to try new foods that you'venever heard of or you're not
entirely sure what they are.
But you know.
Luckily we live in the age ofthe internet, so if that's ever
an issue you can just look uphey, what is this thing?
(10:43):
Where does it come from?
It takes like 10 seconds andthat can help overcome the fear
of trying those new foods.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Yeah, there's a recipe for anything.
I used to really loved going toRed Lobster and eating the
Cheddar Bay Biscuits, and soI've had this vegan recipe for
the biscuits forever and I'mgoing to try it one day.
But yeah, I don't know what wedid without Google before.
It must have been really hardto be a plant-based person, but
I'm so glad that the peoplenowadays don't have to worry
(11:13):
about that because there's arecipe literally for anything,
so we don't have to miss out.
So I know you were mentioningkind of how your family were
pretty open and supportive.
How about your peers and yourfriends?
Were you kind of the odd personout?
Did they treat you differently?
Like how did you deal withgoing to birthday parties and
(11:33):
birthday cake, that kind ofthing?
Speaker 4 (11:35):
Well, at the time I was still being homeschooled.
So I was homeschooled up untilhigh school.
So I had a solid year beforegoing to public school where I
was transitioning to plant-based.
But I would still have someclasses in person with friends
and I was a little bit of theodd one out.
(11:57):
Something that I findinteresting, that I didn't quite
realize at first, is when yousay that you're vegan, people
feel like they have the right tosay what you can and can't eat,
even when you're justtransitioning to being vegan,
even if you're not quite thereyet.
They'll think, oh no, this thinghas the tiniest bit of cheese
(12:18):
and you're trying to be vegan,so you have to go with this
super bland, boring option, eventhough you're not fully vegan
yet.
I find that can be a bit hardwhen you're really focusing on
just cutting out one thing at atime.
Sometimes people don'tunderstand that and they'll
think, oh no, you have to be allvegan or nothing like.
(12:39):
There's no in between.
A lot of vegans transitioned tobeing vegan and didn't just,
you know, wake up one day andboom, suddenly they never ate
animals or any products again.
I had some friends who wantedto go vegan around my same age,
but their parents weren't quiteas supportive and so they didn't
end up going through with it.
But yeah, I think as a parentit's very important to give your
(13:03):
kid that space to explore itand not kind of push them
towards you know oh, not beingvegan.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Absolutely, and I love that.
You made the point that youknow there's a transition period
, that it doesn't have to be allor nothing, that you can allow
yourself to use the label of yes, I'm trying to eat more
plant-based, I'm trying to govegan, but I'm not quite there
yet.
But just because I'm stilleating cheese but everything
(13:33):
else is gone doesn't mean I'mkicked out of the club.
It means I'm doing the bestthat I can.
So I love that that you knowyou had the space and the
support to make that transition.
I think that's such a goodreminder for people out there
that you know you can let peopleknow that it's a process.
It doesn't have to be an all ornothing type of thing.
So I know that's a struggle formany of our listeners.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
You're not less vegan just because you know you're on
your way but not quite thereyet.
You're still making that effortand that's what matters, which.
I've heard some vegans be veryharsh against people who do that
and say, oh, like being halfwayvegan is worse than being an
(14:16):
omnivore, when really it's not.
It's like it's not enough.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
The mask doesn't add up.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Exactly Like if everyone in the US just went 80%
and 80% vegan.
That's so much better than youknow, with half the population
went 100% vegan.
Like it's all about you knowdoing as much as you can, and if
it's not easy to cut out thingsovernight, it's okay to take
(14:46):
that time and work on cuttingout one thing at a time.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
For sure, for sure.
So to fast forward a little bit, after high school you're
trying to decide okay, I'm goingto go to school and I'm going
to study something in particular.
So I know you mentioned youwere interested in the culinary
arts at one point.
Did being vegan, did thatinfluence that choice?
(15:11):
Or have you just been kind of alover of cooking?
Speaker 4 (15:14):
I've always loved culinary arts.
I even as a kid I would I wouldattempt to cook and bake.
I definitely had my fair shareof horrible disasters that were
basically inedible, but you know, I kept cooking ever since I
(15:34):
was a kid and I loved helping inthe kitchen and I really just
loved food and the art andscience of food, and I think
it's one of the few places whereart and science really come
together and work beautifully.
Yeah, and so it definitely gotstronger as it became vegan,
(15:56):
because I wanted to make my ownmeals and cook tofu the way that
I like it, rather than having,you know, the hellish bland tofu
.
Then I did go to a trade schoolthat is targeted towards high
schoolers so they can get atrade certification by the time
(16:17):
they graduate, and luckily, Iwas able to get that
certification the year that Igraduated and so I did that, and
luckily, my chef was also veryopen about me being vegan.
She had one rule, which was youalways have to at least try
(16:39):
something, but she made theexception of if you're like
vegan, vegetarian, or I don'teat something for religious
reasons, then that's the onecase where, okay, you don't have
to try stuff, but that wasreally nice, and she would also
help me veganize the recipesthat we were learning in class.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Fantastic.
Wow, that's so nice that youhad an instructor like that,
because sometimes the ones on TVyou see they're not so nice.
So, going through this, thistrade school do you have?
And being vegan, do you haveany like?
If you could pick like one ortwo good tips or tricks in the
kitchen, do you have any thatyou can share with our listeners
?
Speaker 4 (17:18):
I'll share one tip for cooking and one for baking.
For people who love cooking, donot be afraid to use
plant-based oils like olive oil,canola oil.
I know we're often taught that,oh, fat is bad, but plant-based
fats with the exception ofcoconut oil, which it's a whole
thing why that's an exceptionbut for pretty much any other
(17:39):
oil it's going to be so healthyfor you and not have pretty much
any of the negative sideeffects that come with eating
animal fats, and so don't beafraid to use that.
That is a great way to get thatmacronutrients into your diet
and to just make your food tastebetter.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Right flavor, Exactly .
Speaker 4 (18:00):
And then for baking.
One thing that I learned isplant-based butters tend to have
a different water to fat ratio,so there's a lot more water her
amount of fat, and so whenbaking, make sure to look at how
much water is in the butter.
You can do that by saying, okay, a serving size is like 20
(18:24):
grams, and then it's like 10grams of fat and 2 grams of
sugar, so that means there's 8grams of water left, and so it's
important to look at that andkind of adjust the recipe, maybe
add a little bit less liquid ora little bit more butter or
extra like plant-based oil inthe recipe.
If you don't do that, thatextra water can ruin some
(18:49):
recipes, especially stuff likepie crust, which is very
sensitive and needs only a tinyamount of water.
That can make a huge difference.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Oh wow, that's super technical.
I love that.
I love that tip for trick.
I burn water, so I'm not gonnabe doing any baking any time
soon, but our listeners outthere, that's such a good tip.
I can't wait to show that one.
So while you're in school, youhad the opportunity to study
abroad, which you just recentlyreturned from right I just came
back from Rome, italy.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
I studied there for three months.
I'm currently a computerscience major, so I switched
from culinary arts to a moretechnical field.
But I was able to take a fewelective classes there and one
of the classes was actually aItalian food culture class which
I learned so much in.
(19:42):
It was technically a sociologyclass, but we also got to try a
few foods and even get a lecturefrom an olive farmer from
Umbria, which is the regionnorth of Lazio, and Lazio is the
region that Rome is in and hewas able to tell us how to pick
(20:04):
good olive oil.
And we got to try threedifferent olive oils one was
fresh, one was a month old andone was like three months old
and the difference between fresholive oil and even just one
month old olive oil was insane,which makes me kind of sad that
we can't get fresh olive oileasily here yeah, there's the
(20:30):
rub, it pretty much everythingyou see on shelves here in the
US is at least a month old,which really it makes such a
huge difference, which I didn'trealize.
But yeah, it was very nice beingable to explore Italian food
culture and also talk to vegansin Italy as well.
I noticed that there were a lotmore people who were so-called
(20:55):
like quasi vegan, also in Franceas well.
I was able to visit Franceduring my time there and there
were a lot of people who atealmost entirely vegan, but they
also weren't nearly as strictabout oh, if this thing has like
less than 2% milk protein, likeyou know, I'll pick an
alternative if it's there, butif not, I'm not really gonna
(21:17):
care, which I definitely don'twant to discourage people who
are already vegan to introducethat stuff back into their diet.
But I think it's Also nice tohave that mindset as a new vegan
.
When you're just figuring stuffout, it can be helpful to focus
on the big picture stuff, and Isaw that a lot more in Italy,
(21:39):
and people also Seem to not bequite as judgmental.
If a vegan person over therehad something with the tiniest
trace of milk, they wouldn't say, oh, you're not vegan anymore.
They'd just be like like, oh, Ididn't know, that had a tiny
amount of milk in it or whatever.
And, yeah, I think not havingthat judgment was Very important
(22:04):
to let people be vegan.
But I think that also partiallycomes with a lack of
understanding.
In Italy, one time I went to arestaurant and when I told the
server that I was vegan, shesaid Okay, so what don't you eat
?
And I said okay, I don't eatlike meat or fish, because in
Italian it's two different wordsDairy or egg.
(22:26):
And she said, okay, so youdon't eat anything.
I was like, no, they're quite alot of food.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Well, that is kind of the impression that you get,
especially when you're thinkingabout France and in Italy, at
least from an Americanperspective, that you think of
pasta and cheese and lots ofbutter, especially in these,
like very traditional Dishes,and that they're very proud and
it's part of their culture thatthey make the best cheeses in
(22:53):
the world and the best Pasta inthe world.
So questioning that is almostlike you're questioning their
culture.
So so how was that Kind ofperception did you?
Did you experience any pushbackfrom people about Not turning
your nose up but saying do youhave a vegan pasta?
Speaker 4 (23:13):
Luckily, I didn't have much pushback with pasta,
because most pasta in Italy isactually Made from semolina
flour, which doesn't need eggwhen you make it, although there
is, of course, egg pasta aswell.
But there were some people whodidn't entirely understand what
vegan meant.
So one time I went to a winetasting and they serve various
(23:37):
foods that went with the wineand For some of the dishes
they'd bring out a plate of likecheese and balsamic vinegar and
then I'd be like, oh, now I'mvegan.
And they're like it was justcheese and it's like, oh wait,
yeah, cheese and then vegan.
Sorry, we get something else.
There were definitely a lot ofpeople who didn't entirely
understand or had a hard timethinking of Vegan foods, but
(23:59):
when you really thought about it, there were plenty of vegan
foods there, such as Spaghetti,basil and tomato sauce that I
saw that a lot in Romespecifically.
Each region in Rome in France,is going to have its own unique
food culture and so You'll haveto look at what, what dishes are
there and what vegan optionsare in that region, because,
(24:21):
like Enables, the food that theyhave there is completely
different than what they have inRome.
It varies so much dependingjust on where you are.
Luckily, the friends that Imade there were quite accepting
and I even had an Italian friendwho had me over and he made
three course Italian meal and hecried really hard.
(24:46):
By the end he decided on pesto,but the pesto that he got had a
little bit of parmesan cheesein it.
Yeah so, like I mentioned it,and he was like oh no, we can do
something else.
And I I thought Well, youalready put so much work into
this, we can do pesto.
Just next time, know that thishas parmesan in it.
So luckily I was able to makefriends who really went above
(25:10):
and beyond with helping me likefind vegan restaurants and vegan
Italian dishes, and so that wasvery nice.
One of my main friends was overthere, was already vegetarian,
so he was more than happy toyeah try all of the vegan
restaurants with me.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
So what was that access like?
In terms of vegan restaurants,were there a lot of them.
Did you Really enjoy them?
Comparatively to a traditionalItalian restaurant?
What was that like?
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Luckily, rome is the second best city to be vegan,
and when it comes to Italy, ithas good.
I think 11 vegan restaurants inthe city.
There's fully vegan restaurants.
That's not even places justwith options and yeah.
So I was very lucky to have aplethora of restaurants to
(25:59):
choose from, and I was able totry a lot of Traditional foods
that were made vegan.
There was one that I reallyliked called the refugio romano,
which is Italian for Romanrefuge.
It originally wasn't a veganrestaurant, but they became
vegan at one point and yeah, andthey had the most amazing Roman
(26:25):
food.
They also had a few dishes fromother regions of Italy, but
they had some of the best food.
I can't wait to go back already,and so luckily, I had a lot of
access in Rome.
I think it can be a little bitmore difficult in Southern Italy
to find those fully veganplaces, but in southern Italy
(26:45):
they also naturally eat a lotmore plant-based, so there will
be a lot of options that justaren't labeled as vegan or
vegetarian, but if you keep youreye out and ask what's in stuff
, there will always be options,although one thing to keep in
mind is in Italy you nevermodify the dish that you're
asking for, so you don't ask, oh, can I have this, but without
(27:07):
the cheese?
I would recommend findingplaces that have vegan options
already on the menu, which Inever saw a single restaurant
there that didn't have at leastone already vegan option.
But don't be that picky touristwho's like oh can I have this,
but can you?
Speaker 3 (27:22):
completely change the dish.
Don't be that American.
Exactly, Phoenix.
I know you speak five languages, so I'm assuming you got to
practice your Italian.
So if you have some Englishspeakers going over to Italy to
travel and maybe their Italianis not advanced, do you have any
(27:42):
tips or tricks for what theycan do to let the waiter know
that they're vegan, or what tolook for on the menu?
Speaker 4 (27:50):
A phrase that is very useful is sono vegana, which
means I am vegan.
That's how a woman would say it, and if you're a man, you would
say sono vegano.
If you're a non-binary person,you'd say something that sounds
almost identical to the feminineversion.
So you can just use that,because the nuance is kind of
(28:11):
hard to get down if you don'tspeak Italian.
And if you're vegetarian, youcan say sono vegeteriana or
vegeteriano, depending on yourgender.
And if they aren't quite surewhat that means, you can say
which means I don't eat meat orfish, because in Italian that's
(28:34):
a different word Meat, fish, eggor milk.
I had to use that a few timesand people didn't understand,
but if you go to the veganrestaurants, you won't have to
worry about saying any of that.
And stuff to look out for on themenu was prosciutto, which is
pig meat.
It comes from their cheeks.
Sometimes on the translatedversion of the menu it will say
(28:57):
bacon instead, so that's easierto spot.
But if you don't see baconanywhere, watch out for
prosciutto, because that is notvegan or vegetarian.
You can also look out for cremaor wolva, which are cream and
egg.
As for cheeses, they generallysay the type of cheese on the
(29:18):
menu.
So I would just kind offamiliarize yourself with the
most common types of Italiancheeses.
Like cacio e pepe is a dishthat has cheese in it, but you
probably wouldn't see the wordcheese on in the description
because they'd say the specifictype of cheese.
So that's the main stuff towatch out for.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Yeah, those are great tips, and now I'm very hungry
for travel and Italian food.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
I highly recommend it .
They also ate some animals thatwe don't eat in the US.
The most common one, in Romespecifically, was horses.
They do eat horses and, yeah,they also eat various parts of
the animals that we don't eat.
There's one dish specificallywith a the intestine of a baby
(30:08):
cow with the mother's milk stillinside, which, yeah, it can be
a bit gory just looking at, justlearning about what's on the
menu at those places, so thatwas quite shocking, but there
are plenty of vegan restaurantswhere you can go to and you
don't have to worry about any ofthat.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
How about the animal rights scene?
Is it mostly, probably theyounger generation, that are
bringing that to attention?
Speaker 4 (30:37):
Yeah, definitely.
Well, the south of Italy doesalready eat a lot of plant-based
and vegetarian food becauseit's much cheaper over there
than eating meat, because plantfoods are subsidized rather than
meat being subsidized.
In the rest of Italy it'smostly the younger generation
(30:58):
going fully vegan and speakingup more against dairy and eggs,
and pretty much all of thevegans that I met there were
rather young.
There were some older vegansthat I met, but it was mostly
quite young people.
But young people tend to createchange in any culture.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Absolutely so interesting I love.
One of my favorite things is totravel, so I love that you got
the opportunity to go andexperience a new culture and try
the food as a vegan, and maybenot on purpose, but be
representative of someone who'sexcited about trying new things
from the US and stillappreciating the history and the
(31:45):
culture, but presentingsomething new and letting them
know that the demand, thetourist demand, is there, that
we appreciate having those veganoptions while traveling.
So for all you listeners outthere, hopefully this inspired
you to maybe not be so nervouslike oh, I'm not going to go
there this year because Iwouldn't have anything to eat.
(32:06):
So I love that.
Especially in Rome, we have 11options of restaurants, so that
makes me very excited.
Speaker 4 (32:13):
Yes, I would do your research for Florence if you go
there, or Pisa, because I wouldsay that was the least vegan
friendly city that I found whilethere.
There are options, but you haveto certainly do your research a
bit more there than with otherplaces.
It's not quite as easy to justlook up oh, where's a vegan
restaurant?
(32:34):
Oh, there are five withinwalking distance.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
I'm sure it's easy to get spoiled for those types of
places.
For sure and I think that's agood overall tip for most
plant-based eaters whentraveling is you have to put in
a little bit of planning if youwant to take that stress out of
it of kind of getting to a placeand realizing, okay, I have,
there's nothing, there's nooptions here.
(32:57):
If I had planned a little bitbetter, maybe I would have made
a bit different choice.
So I think that planning aspectis such a good reminder for
sure.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
It's been great getting to chat with you and
share my experience with all ofyour listeners.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
Yes, phoenix, we are so happy that you decided to
join us today.
Someone has a question aboutItaly or maybe studying the
culinary arts as a vegan, andthey want to reach out to you.
What's the best place that theycan?
Speaker 4 (33:23):
I would say the easiest place that most people
have is Instagram.
My Instagram is Angel ofHarmony, with three zeros at the
end, all one word.
And I am not always on there 24seven.
But if you messaged me on thereI'm pretty likely to get back
to you, at least within a coupledays.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Those of you listening.
We are so happy you decided tojoin us today.
Hopefully this inspired somefuture travels and we will see
you next time.
Thank you, phoenix.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Thank you Bye.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Bye.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Thank you so much for listening to the Plant Centered
and Thriving podcast today.
If you found this episodeinspiring, please share it with
a friend or post it on socialmedia and tag me so I can
personally say thank you.
Until next time, keep thriving.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com