The Best of 2023: Part 2

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Plant-Centered and Thriving
Podcast.
I'm your host.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Ashley Kitchens.
I'm a plant-based registereddietitian and virtual nutrition
mentor.
I was raised on an Angus CattleFarm, grew up with a lot of GI
issues and used the power ofplant-based eating to promote
healing.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Here you'll find inspiration, ideas and
encouragement for your ownplant-based journey.
I'm so thrilled you're heretoday.
Let's get started.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Welcome to the show Plant-Centered Listener.
My name is Ashley and I'm Katie, and we are closing out the
year with our Best of 2023, part2 series, and I am so excited
to share this episode with you.
And today we are featuring someof our favorite inspirational
stories from people just likeyou and me and how they have

(00:53):
used the power of plants tochange their lives for the
better.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
Oh, I'm getting so geared up.
Yeah, you're going to get firedup, you're going to cry.
You're going to go out and buyall the kale that you see.
You're going to be so inspiredto incorporate more plants this
year.
So I'm so excited to share kindof like a condensed version of

(01:16):
the best we had to offer thisyear, because we had some really
powerful stories.
We really did.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
We had some wonderful stories from this past year.
If you've been thinking aboutgoing plant-based, we have a
course called Plant-Based in 30Days, which is just below in the
show notes.
It is your step-by-step guideto go and plant-based, so
definitely check that out ifyou've been thinking about it,
or maybe you've tried it anddidn't quite work.
Well, we have that course madespecifically for you.

(01:41):
We are planning our 2024calendar for next year.
If you have a story to sharewhere you have gone plant-based
and it's really benefited yourlife, your health, your family,
friends, whatever that may be,we would love to hear from you.
So we have a form below whereyou can fill that out and let us

(02:02):
know that you would like to bea guest on the show.
So we're really just lookingfor ordinary people with
extraordinary stories aboutgoing plant-based and how it's
changed your life for the better, and we know that your story
has the potential, the power, toimpact other people who are
also thinking about goingplant-based and maybe haven't
quite made the leap yet.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
Yes, you do not have to be a professional speaker.
You do not have to have been on10 podcasts before.
We are just looking forinspiration for our listeners.
So if you're thinking about,wow, I've made a lot of changes,
we want to hear from you.
The power of editing can fixanything.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
That's true.
A lot of the guests that you'reabout to hear from now have
that was the first time being onthe podcast.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
So it's not extra fancy.
We are just looking for yourstories.
Don't be shy, that's right.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
Yeah, we'll fill that form out below.
Please enjoy part two of ourBest of 2023 series and if you
weren't able to listen to partone yet, definitely go back and
listen to that.
And then, katie, I'm reallyexcited because we're opening
2024 with a cool episode talkingabout how we can live more like
a blue zone.
That is going to be a reallycool episode.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
Oh my God, I cannot believe it's 2024.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Let's dive in to these inspirational stories.
Awesome.
You may know him as John Lewisor the badass vegan, so he is
going to share with us just somuch about his journey, his new
cookbook that's coming out, hisdocumentary and so much more.
And even in your book you kindof touch on this a little bit.

(03:38):
It's like you kind of went inthe beginning from kind of being
in people's faces about goingvegan, going plant based, but
that's really evolved over timetoo.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?

Speaker 5 (03:48):
Yeah.
So I have a good friend.
He's still not vegan, but he'smore conscious because of me,
and I used to be that guy.
I was, I was the angry vegan, Iwas the guy that, like wait a
minute, I just found this newreligion and I got to tell
everybody about this religionand if you're not a part of this
religion, you're going to veganhail.
So you just get ready.

(04:08):
And he, he just reached out tome one day.
He was like yeah, bro, you know, you know you're not really
helping people.
And I'm like what do you mean?
I'm trying to help the people.
I'm telling them what not toeat.
And this is that.
He goes.
Well, you're not helping thembecause nobody's listening.
And I'm not like it was like adagger, like right to the heart,
and I'm like, oh man, he got apoint.

(04:30):
Like I couldn't even argue withhim at that point.
I was like huh.
So I took a step back and ofcourse I still do more comedic
stuff.
But and even before he told methat I've never been one to
demean anybody I was just waymore aggressive.
Now I'm just more like likehearted, playful and I'll crack
jokes and it's so funny.
People are always like you'realways trying to push your

(04:51):
agenda.
I'm like I never go to anybodyelse's page.
You're on my page telling mewhat not to do.
The funniest quote always tellpeople is that.
Isn't it ironic that you're onmy page telling me to let others
live while you're telling menot to live, like me.
You would just say like theydon't get that part though.

(05:11):
So, but yeah, I just had totake a step back and say if
somebody was talking to me thatway, I probably wouldn't respond
to.
Well, now, I know there, I, andI also believe this too.
I believe that the movement, asfar as any movement I don't
care what it is I think themovement has different lanes and
we're all going down the samehighway, but we have different

(05:32):
lanes and people are attractedto the different lanes, like
there are animal activists thatare that are showing you what's
going on in the farms andshowing you what's going on in
the slaughterhouses and in thesecamps and all the stuff, and
that's that's great for them.
I never knocked them.
That's just not for me.
What I've, what I found, ishitting people and if you notice

(05:54):
, in a lot of my wordage I usethe words us and we.
I'm always like we can dobetter.
I was there where you were,like I'm not acting, like I'm
above you.
I'm saying, hey, I was there,but look what we can do now.
And you know I get people thatyou know I get comments every
now and then like, oh, I hatecoming to your page, but I know

(06:15):
you're helping me, like I justhad that yesterday on a post.
It's like oh, you keepdeterring me from meat.
I keep coming back, so I knowit's working.
So yeah, that is.
It was aggressive.
Now it's like kind of likecomedic and and just having fun.
I believe you can talk aboutserious topics and still have
fun.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
I'm bringing Beth on the show.
She is a mom of two and founderof trifecta Pilates, using an
empowered, effective and joyfilled approach to working out.
So you can see why I want tohave her on the show, right.
I just I love, I love, love,love, the joy filled approach to
working out.
As a cancer survivor and healthcoach, she knows that it's

(06:58):
about healthy habits that aresimple, sustainable and personal
.
So, really, like you're like,you're saying, like really
getting in touch with, like yourbody and kind of recognizing
okay, well, why am I havingthese cravings today, or why am
I especially rapidness, or whyam I just especially fatigued?
Like maybe really trying to tapinto, maybe like why that is
digging deep in that connection,like with what your body's

(07:18):
trying to tell you.

Speaker 7 (07:20):
It is really digging deep and also I feel like taking
the opportunity to assess, like, do I really feel like this or
have I just been conditioned towant this?
And this conditioning startsvery young.
Like this is why there'scompanies big, large companies
are trying to get brandawareness to kids and youth,

(07:43):
because they know if they drinkthat Coca-Cola or opposite Pepsi
when they're really young,they're going to do that when
they're adults Because there'sso many unconscious decisions we
make.
It's just part of our everydaylife.
Like this is what.
This is how I've always done it, rather than pausing it and
being like do I actually reallyenjoy this?
And if I do really enjoy it,well, is it an alignment?

(08:05):
So they have it as much as theywant to, and the amount of
proportions.
And there's some foods, forinstance for me, where it's like
I'm vegan-ish, I say, but Istill try to reduce my sugar.
But there's a cake, like astrawberry lemon cake, that I
make every single summer.
It's my once a year cake andthat thing's low in sugar.

(08:25):
I'm not going to play with howmuch sugar it has because it's
once a year.
My kiddos love it, but I alsoknow I'm not making it every
single week and there was thismy dog, so my dog loves.
We still have cheese in thefridge where my kids enjoy
cheese right now cheese andcarrots.
Now, if you feed her a carrotfirst, she'll eat her carrots,

(08:50):
but if you feed her cheese first, she's not going to eat those
carrots.
Wow, and I think about that.
She's like no, no, that's thatdoes not.
That carrot doesn't do anythingfor me.
I need that cheese right now.
And I think about that.
That sometimes we're just soconditioned to okay, eating out
which I used to eat out morelike fast food, and now I'm like

(09:13):
I don't even enjoy that food atall.
And when I have to go, I'm like, okay, like I went to
McDonald's once I was juststaring up at the menu thinking,
okay, when am I going to have?
Like looking at the menu, andthen I got a drink and I, no, I
forget what I got.
I said that's your medium size,like that.
When I was growing up, thatused to be like a small size.

(09:34):
So there's all these differentcomponents.
If you like, it's justplant-based is another way to
live more consciously with whatwe're doing, rather than just
following what's always beendone and the way that I've
reframed it because I did haveto change my family recipes is
that traditions started becauseonce upon a time, someone

(09:58):
started something new and itbecame this transition that
sometimes we just get.
We feel like we have to keepcooking those holiday meals or
the birthday dinner meal thesame exact way because we've
been doing it that way, butsomeone invented that somewhere
once upon a time.
So we talk with me okay, thosea lot about that too.

(10:19):
Like, let's respect thetraditions but really evaluate
Do you enjoy them?
Do they bring you pleasure?
Do you wanna try something alittle bit different and see,
and sometimes it works outreally great, and other times
like not ever doing that again,and other times in between I'm
gonna tweak it a little bit nexttime.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
Today we're talking with a courageous woman who
received a diagnosis of multiplesclerosis and used diet and
lifestyle changes to, as best asshe can, effectively combat her
disease.

Speaker 8 (10:53):
And in 2017, maybe going into early 18, I was all
into this OMS lifestyle and,like full disclosure, I'm not
super strict with myself fromthe meditation side of you and
all the other bits, but fromdiet I was like, do you know
what this works for me?
I feel really good.
You don't feel like thatheaviness, weightiness, and I

(11:15):
could see like how well I wasdoing, say, from an exercise
point of view, rather thanfeeling like everything being
like a drain or like drudgery.
I found myself that werebouncing back quicker.
So that side of things, I wouldsay I was pretty much all in,
yeah, within about nine to 10months, and that was kind of it

(11:40):
for me and I knew it worked.
I knew straight away I wasfeeling good.
I feel like, yeah, I feel likeeveryone talks about like energy
and that side of things, butfor me I really did.
You don't get that heaviness.
Like I mean, yeah, we all get3PM slumps, but do you know what
I mean?
It's like I would never.

(12:02):
I wouldn't feel that likereally weightiness after a meal
anymore.
Do you know what I mean?
Now, it's probably overthinkingeverything I was eating at the
start as well.
Like, it's just, it's hard tochange and you are, you're
really thinking about what's inthis, what's in this?
Am I eating enough?
Or at the beginning you eat thesame bloody meal so many times

(12:25):
because you're just trying to begood.
But it's, you know, once thatside of things settled down,
I've found it way more fun.
Like, I found way moreenjoyment in food.
I care so much more, you know,it's like it's more exciting to
find a new plant-basedrestaurant, like, and look what
they can do, look how amazingthat looks, versus a regular

(12:47):
omni restaurant, becauseeveryone can kind of do that.
But to make somethingincredible, like in a
plant-based restaurant, I justthink is so impressive.
Like, and we're always on thehunt, like you know, we live in
Melbourne, so it's like a mecca.
Like it's the perfect place tobe living yeah, or it's the
perfect place to be living for,like, plant-based or vegan
eating yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
That's wonderful, I'm so glad.
And so it sounds like there wasjust this undeniable shift in
your energy and how you fell andit was like, okay, this is,
this is it.

Speaker 8 (13:16):
I'm not looking back, I'm gonna continue forward with
this plant-based eating 100%,like I just I think it clicked
in me really quickly and once Igot over there, you know I saw
the variety I could eat and Igot, you know, used to this way
of cooking Once I realized likeit wasn't impeding me in
anything, it just felt way moreenjoyment, like I enjoy cooking

(13:40):
more, I enjoy eating out more,and it just for us.
It just felt like, do you knowwhat?
Why would I?
I don't know, why would I makemyself feel unwell and dairy is
really contraindicated with MS.
So, to be honest, for me, atthe very beginning, I would say

(14:00):
no, do you know what?
If you put meat in front ofyour dairy, I would eat the meat
before the dairy.
Like I switched with dairy,like that.
Yeah, that's for me becauseit's a real like.
I think there's real clearresearch with dairy and MS,
whereas I think the meat side ofit is from a saturated fat.
So, you know, you can sort ofpeople can sort of say, oh well,

(14:20):
lean meats.
But I think for me as well, youstart looking, looking for
recipes, you start followingthis person, that person, and
you start seeing the ethicalside of it as well, which is
where my mind is set.
I probably I would think I'm50-50 in it now from a health
perspective and an ethicalperspective.

(14:41):
So for me there's certainly nogoing back, like I've said, if I
was, if someone said to metomorrow you're cured, there's
no MS, I would not change theway I eat.
Like no two ways about it, yeahno two ways about it.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
I am really excited for today's guest, who is named
Dr Amanda.
She is a double board certifiedinternal medicine, lifestyle
medicine physician, health coach, owner of enlightenment, health
and wealth, and one of the mainthings she does, which I love
so much, is she works primarilywith women, and she works with
women in helping them possiblyreverse chronic illnesses such

(15:19):
as type two diabetes, heartdisease and high blood pressure,
and not only possibly reversethose chronic diseases, but also
she helps them prevent them aswell.

Speaker 11 (15:27):
I didn't even put the two together yet at that
point in time that what I waseating actually impacted
long-term health.
Like again, my initial thoughtwas I'm just trying to lose
weight, I'm just trying to loseweight, so that's where I was at
that time.
So it went until years later,after even finishing residency
and actually practicing forprobably a couple of years, that

(15:50):
I'm like okay, these two kindof go together.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah, I'm curious how you started to make that
connection, cause I think for somany of us that can be a
challenge.
That's not really somethingthat we're taught that, oh, food
has an impact on how you feelthroughout the day, maybe how
you sleep, or what puts you atrisk for, maybe certain chronic
diseases.
How did you start making thatconnection?

Speaker 11 (16:10):
And I have to give all the credit to one of my
patients.
It was an older gentleman.
I was actually in Tennessee,practicing Tennessee, so
Tennessee's in the South, sothat's not a big vegetarian
place either, right.
And he just happened to saycause he had heart disease, his
cholesterol was high andeverything like that.
And he was like, well, you know, dr Atkins, I've been well,

(16:31):
actually I was Davis then butI've been reading this book and
been following this guy named DrJoel Furman and he has his book
called Eat to Live.
And I was like, okay, that'sinteresting.
So I got the book, just skimthrough it, and I'm like, oh,
this is pretty good.
So what I've been doing is nottoo far off.
He's a bit more strict thanjust being vegetarian.

(16:55):
And then I had more patients askI don't wanna be on medicine,
what else can I do for my highblood pressure?
What else can I do for mydiabetes?
And I'm like, hmm, you knowwhat?
We were taught to give you aprescription.
So I don't know what else youcan do.
And then, you know, just, drFurman just kept coming back to
me and then we had we have to do, you know continual medical

(17:20):
educational courses, and therehappened to be one in a state
that I always wanted to visit.
I always thought I would livethere and it was in Arizona.
So I went to feed it, you know,in probably a colder time of
the year, but it's always hot inArizona.
So I was like I'm going thereand it was a nutrition
conference and I was like, okay,so this kind of lines up,

(17:42):
trying to learn a little thingshere, and one of the doctors
there said you cannot outexercise a bad diet, and that
stuck with me and kind oftransformed me from going from
vegetarian to vegan to, you know, mostly plant-based.
Just from there and it's again.
It's just like, oh, I justhappened.
This just kind of happened.
You say it happened but it was,you know, divine intervention

(18:05):
for this to actually occur, forme, to have this patient at this
time in his life, for him tosay, dr Joe Perman, you know it
just all kind of lined up.
And then you know, like I said,going back to my story when I
was 16, like, hmm, and then youcan actually say to patients
when you tell them you know notto eat meat, then they'll look
at me as an African-American,you know, saying, well, do you

(18:27):
not eat meat, do you exerciseand like, as a matter of fact,
that is my story, you know.
So it kind of resonates withpeople a bit more when they
actually see someone likesitting in front of them,
looking like I look and sayingyou can do it too, because I've
been doing it for decades now.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yes, yeah, I feel like it means so much more when
you're actually walking the walkand not just talking to talk.

Speaker 11 (18:48):
Yeah, and that was big for me also going through
medical school to actually beable to carry out these things
that I was going to be saying topeople, because you know I
didn't go to the doctor growingup much, but I do remember one
time going to a pediatrician andhe was like 300 pounds, you
know, telling me I needed to,you know, lose weight and stuff.
And I'm just looking likereally you know.

(19:10):
So that I don't know.
I don't remember his name, Ijust can.
You know, you have thosevisions, that just kind of pop
in your head that you canremember.
You know little bits of yourchildhood and that was one of
them and I was like I don't wantto be that person.
So that kind of helped me to,kind of and still helps me
because people like, how do youstay on track?
It's like because I have to beaccountable to these people that
I'm helping.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
Robbie and Mia Graham .
So they are the proprietors ofRevelations Cafe, which is a
plant-based restaurant in Tampa,Florida, which they founded in
2018.
Their story was also featuredin a new documentary film called
Revelations Cafe Food for theSoul.
He had this situation happenwhile he was at the gym.

(19:54):
He was a hardcore meat eaterand you probably already know he
does not eat that way anymore,but it was pretty wild and,
honestly, pretty wild that he isstill living today with
everything that transpired, andit took him really changing his
life around massively in manydifferent ways for him to be
still with us today.

Speaker 14 (20:14):
Long story short.
About four months before weopened this wonderful cafe, we
were in the gym training and Iwas working out and I started to
get severe pains.
I was already dealing with itfor about a month or so.
I was getting chest pains but Ithought I pulled something,
because I've always trained,I've always lifted.
I was a competitor bodybuilderwhen I was younger.
So I just felt like you know, Imust have pulled a pack.
I got an internal pit tear inthere and it just kept bothering

(20:37):
me.
And then, eventually it got tothe point when I was at this one
workout and as I was in themiddle of my workout, the pain
got so intense that I couldbarely catch my breath.
And then I started gettingradiating pains down my left arm
and at that moment I knew thatwas it.
So I walked over to her I thinkshe was doing abs, I think she
was on the ab machine and I said, hey, I'm done.
And she goes.
What do you mean?

(20:57):
You're done, I go, I'm done.
And she looked at me she goesoh my God, you're having a heart
attack, cause she could see howit's.
I was like my eyes arepractically rolling back in my
head.
I was pale as a ghost, and soshe immediately went and grabbed
the car, got me into the car,immediately got me in the car
and five minutes not even fiveminutes she had me in the ER and
they wheeled me right in andthey were able to retard the

(21:17):
heart attack.
They stopped it and at thatpoint in time they determined
they needed to admit me and thenI was cardiac cat at the next
morning on a Sunday, which theynever do, but that's how serious
they thought my heart conditionwas, that they brought the
cardiologists in and then that'swhen they spend in my left
coronary artery While I'mrecovering.
I have a brother in the Lordthat you know is a vegan and you

(21:42):
know, of course I used to pickon him a little bit and I made
fun of him, as you know, causeyou eat like a bird and real men
eat meat, you know.
And so because I got somethingfor you.
But he says you're going tohave to take it serious and I
went all right.
So he sends me Dr Esselstyn'sbook Reverse and Prevent Heart
Disease.
Wow.
So I started to read this book,and the more I read this book,
the more angry I got, becausethe science was convicting me,

(22:05):
you know, and I, because of myfaith, I read the Bible.
When I read the Bible, itconvicts my soul.
You know, I'm like man.
This is truth here.
I really love this.
Well, I started to readEsselstyn's book and I got
extremely convicted.
So the more I got convicted, Ibasically said all right, that's
it.
So I decided I'm going to goplant-based.
I have to, yeah, yeah, becauseI could go on to the bitter end

(22:27):
and keep eating what wasclogging all my arteries or I
can make the changes.
So, reluctantly, I did it and Ican only say, within three
months time, my cardiologistnearly fell out of his chair
because the results of mycholesterol, overall cholesterol
, my blood pressure, completelywent away.
I had they were able to take meout of blood pressure

(22:48):
medication because I had highblood pressure.
Wow, my cholesterol droppedover 100 points and I started to
feel the absolute benefits of aplant-based diet from a
recovery perspective, somethingthat I was not used to as a
former bodybuilder.
I was always, you know, I'dpump hard, but I'd always be
puffed, be breathing hard, and Ican tell you that, honestly,

(23:09):
I've never my cardiovascularfitness four years removed from
eating meat, has been phenomenal.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
I just have a really special guest on the show.
His name is Mitch Gill and tobe honest, he actually reached
out on Messenger.
He had said some kind wordsabout the podcast and he gave me
a glimpse into his whole foodplant-based journey and I shared
this a little bit in ourepisode here in a second in our
interview.
But I was like we have to haveMitch on because he just has

(23:41):
such a unique story and he'sincredibly gregarious and he's a
comedian and I just thinkyou're really going to
appreciate just the transparencythat transpired here during our
conversation.

Speaker 6 (23:54):
In the winter of 2019 , I watched five documentaries.

Speaker 13 (24:00):
Oh boy.

Speaker 6 (24:01):
And February 2nd.
That was it.
I'm done.
I'll never eat meat, dairy eggsor seafood ever again.
Wow.
And I haven't looked back and Ilost another 35 pounds.
And now I'm right down to likeI'm five nine and bought one 32
and I feel so good and agile andI feel like an athlete at 58.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
Wow, I mean I would assume like better than you felt
in probably a long time.

Speaker 6 (24:32):
Yeah, it was like gluten-free was here,
plant-based is here.
It's just off the chart.
In my opinion, fixes, or helpsto fix, depression and keeps you
away from medication becauseyou have no other alternative
other than to be in a good mood.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (24:53):
On vegetables.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
Yeah, it's true.
Well, especially when you'reregular, who's not happy when
they're regular, like that'ssuch a great feeling.

Speaker 6 (25:00):
I don't want this might be too much information,
but when I leave the bathroom mytwo, three or four times a day
sometimes I feel high, like I'vejust smoked a joint.
I'm not kidding, I'm likefloating and I'm like I'm in
such a good mood and I'm reallyglad to see people and I feel
like saying you should have beenin there.

Speaker 7 (25:19):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (25:21):
That was incredible.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
Cause most people come out of it and it's not a
pleasant experience, or it's nota pleasant experience during
the situation that's going on.
Welcome to the showPlant-Centered Listener.
My name is Ashley and I am yourhost today.
Imagine being diagnosed with atumor and, in the height of 2020

(25:43):
quarantine, you are searchingfor answers, you are in pain,
you don't feel well, you aretruly a shell of yourself and
you're looking for anything.
Well, this was Sunny, our guesttoday.
Her story and she shares how,after several doctors visits,

(26:04):
she finally found answers and,to her surprise, a lot of these
recommendations from thesedifferent doctors were very
similar.

Speaker 13 (26:13):
So I was diagnosed with a prolactinoma.
It's a benign tumor that's onyour pituitary gland, but it
causes your pituitary gland toproduce prolactin, which is a
hormone that the body createswhen you're lactating, when
you're nursing.
I have never been pregnant, soI actually had a partial

(26:34):
hysterectomy when I in my 20s,from stage four endometriosis.
So I don't know if the tumor isrelated to that, but yes, so
that's what the tumor does.
It causes your breast to swell,it causes weight gain, lethargy
and sometimes milk productionwhich I didn't get, luckily, but
it's pretty common and they putme on a ton of really terrible

(26:56):
medicine.
It made me sick for a littlewhile but then it got better,
and so their MRI-ing and makingsure that it's shrinking.
It has shrunk and I'm allowedto go off the medicine.
I moved to London to do mymaster's degree and in London,
healthiest I've ever been in mylife.
I was not vegan, I was eatingnormally quote unquote,
typically but I was strong, Iwas healthy, I had tons of

(27:19):
energy.
And then I moved back to theUnited States and I'd say within
six months the tumor was back.
So American food perhaps toblame, I don't know.
I also had broken my foot atthe time.
So I was no longer moving likeI did when I lived in London.
I would walk miles a day and Iwas doing aerial as well in

(27:44):
London, and so I was in verygood shape, broke my foot.
Whole life kind of crashes inaround me.
Tumor comes back.
They want to put me back onthis medicine, but I had had
such a hard time with thatmedicine I didn't want to go
back on it.
So I saw several doctors, Iwent to naturopaths and people

(28:05):
who specialize in femalehormones, all these things, and
all of them said go plant-based.
Every single one of them.
They said this is the answerand I thought oh, I'm from Texas
and I had been a vegetarian asa child, because I do have a
love for animals, so I had triedit.

(28:26):
But that was the 80s and therewas nothing, no options, and my
whole family didn't support meand I was a child.
So I ended up malnourishedbecause they would just make
chicken and gravy and biscuitsand stuff and I would starve.
So I quit being a vegetarian asa child.
So I knew that I could do it,but I'd never done vegan.

(28:48):
But I was already dairy-freebecause I'm lactose intolerant.
Since moving back to London orfrom London, no problem with
milk in London.
But as soon as I moved back, Istarted having trouble with milk
, so I'd already gone dairy-free.
I was kind of, you know, at thecusp it's like okay, it's
basically just going vegetarianagain because I've already cut
out dairy.
I told myself.

(29:11):
So once we went into lockdownfor COVID, I was teaching, so I
started teaching online and Ithought to myself this is the
perfect opportunity to try thisvegan, plant-based thing that
all these doctors keep tellingme about for the two weeks that
we're locked down and then, ifmy symptoms go away from the
tumor, then I'll know they wereright.

(29:34):
But I doubt they will.
I don't.
You know, this isn't gonna help, you know, I was telling myself
.
Instead, after even maybe aweek, my symptoms started
reducing and after the two weeksof being like very strict vegan
during lockdown, I thought Idon't wanna stop.

(29:54):
And we're still locked down.
The lockdown kept gettingextended, you know, and I
thought I'll just keep goinguntil we're back, because as
soon as we're back on campus,everyone's gonna have donuts
everywhere and all these things.
But of course we didn't go backfor a whole two semesters, I
think.
Well, a semester and a half.
So I just kept going and I justkept feeling better and better,

(30:15):
dropped like 20 pounds.
I just fell off and I hadgained that 20 pounds after I'd
broken my foot.
My hair started growing back.
I have very thin hair but I hadgone, like you know, I had like
balding spots.
They're coming back a littlebit right now because I'm
getting older, but my skinimproved.

(30:36):
It was remarkable.
I'd never go back now.
So I went vegan kind of as anexperiment and loved it.
All my symptoms were gone.
Now I have zero symptoms ofthis tumor.
They still check me regularlyto make sure it doesn't come
back.
At the moment it's great DrSarah Kashnan.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
She is a registered naturopathic doctor and she's a
NCCAOM Diplomat of Acupuncture,with additional degrees in
environmental health andtoxicology.
Stupid old brain, incredible.
So Dr Kashnan is unique in thatshe has degrees in both

(31:18):
naturopathic medicine andChinese medicine and acupuncture
and she brings such a uniqueperspective to this conversation
, One because she's an athleteand also because she has this
background in medicine.

Speaker 9 (31:30):
So I think, similar to you, I grew up on a lot of
meat, yep, lot of meat, lot ofbutter, lot of lard, all that
gross stuff.
I was never really a big meateater, I just did it because
that's what my family fed me.
It's a lot in my heritage, andover the years I, kind of just
on my own, started to eat alittle bit less and a little bit
less.
I just didn't really like itLactose intolerant, anyways.

(31:52):
I didn't eat dairy for a longtime, but it wasn't until 2012,.
That whole year I actuallystarted to get really sick.
I was teaching yoga full timeduring that year and I thought
that maybe I was just teachingtoo much and moving around too
much.
I was losing a bunch of weight.
I felt kind of weird.
People thought I had an eatingdisorder and I was like no.

(32:12):
So I went to a bunch ofdifferent doctors and I was like
I don't feel good, I'm losingweight, things are weird.
And they just told me it was inmy head, there's nothing wrong
with me, yeah, as it goes.
And it turns out that later inthat year I got diagnosed with
ovarian cancer and I was like,oh no, wow.

Speaker 11 (32:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (32:29):
So I got diagnosed pretty young and a lot of my
healing was a lot of dietarychanges.
I did end up having surgery tohave that one over.
We removed, I refused radiationin chemo and during that time I
was introduced to acupuncturefor pain management and then
kind of started to dabble in thenaturopathic world which is
where I exist now as a physicianand really just went from what

(32:54):
I was eating before and I justwent strict vegan, and when I
say vegan I mean vegan, Likewe're talking fruits and veggies
, Like that's it, Like smoothiesand juices.
I went hard and I've been inreally good health ever since.
I have recovered.
I feel good, I've never had arecurrence and I would never go
back.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Wow, because when you started experiencing symptoms,
you were like in your late 20s,at that point my 20s.

Speaker 9 (33:17):
Yeah, I was young, I was young for it, yeah.
Well, how did?

Speaker 2 (33:21):
veganism come about.

Speaker 9 (33:23):
So the vegan aspect of it is I've always loved
animals.
I actually wanted to be aveterinarian.
I didn't want to be a humandoctor, but this is just where
life took me.
I never felt right eatinganimals.
It never felt spiritually goodto me.
So for me it was just a reallynatural transition of changing
my diet for health reasons butthen continuing on because I do
love animals so much.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yeah.
Yeah, it sounds like it wasreally aligned.
I'm sure even more as you gotmore into practicing yoga.
I'm sure that just like it wasa very cohesive turn of events.
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 9 (33:52):
That's just kind of like compassionate living, and I
know for some people compassionexists in a lot of different
ways, but for me, just in myheart, I can't do it.
I just can't do it.
Sometimes I think about, well,if I had different health issues
but I changed my diet, I don'tknow.
But I feel really aligned withnot only just eating plant-based

(34:13):
but also spiritually feelinggrounded in my decision to be
vegan.
And it's been since then, so 10, whatever years, 10 plus years.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
That's incredible.
And were you practicing as aphysician yet at that time too,
when you were going through allthat?

Speaker 9 (34:25):
No, no, no, I was.
This was before I went tomedical school, and this is sort
of what led me to medicalschool, because I didn't want
anyone to go through theexperience that I did, feeling
really disempowered and notlistened to, and especially as a
female.
So I wanted to go to school anddo it differently, and that's
what I do.
I do it very differently now.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
So today I'm interviewing Fred Ford.
He is an author, a speaker anda life coach.
Actually, if you're familiarwith the movie the Secret, who
is Bob Proctor was a part of theSecret.
Fred Ford actually trained withBob Proctor and now Fred helps
other people achieve improvedhealth and reach their ideal

(35:09):
weight through a coachingprogram called Think and Grow.

Speaker 15 (35:12):
Thin.
I came home one day I actuallywatched a video from a guy named
Dr Neil Barnard, and Dr Barnardsaid in his this particular
speech, talking about how thewhole food plant-based diet will
help reverse heart disease.
And here I was 61 years old, 350pounds, with heart disease in

(35:33):
my family.
If I wasn't a candidate for aheart attack, I don't know who
was.
Dr Barnard said the scary thingabout heart disease is that for
many people, the first timethey find out they have it is
when they die of a heart attack.
I came home and I said to mywife I want to try a whole food
plant-based eating plan.

(35:54):
She said, ok, we've been onthat plan ever since.
Oh my gosh, ever since, wow, Idid not look back.
I have consistently lost weight.
I've consistently changed.
Even within the vegan communitythere were differences about
should you be eating this orthat, and I've listened to all
of it and I've adopted and I'vechanged as I went.

(36:17):
But that's basically thehistory of how I came to a whole
food plant-based eating.
I made a decision that I wasgoing to be 205 pounds and that
decision was the first domino,and it's not that I look back.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
Yeah, and you put it out there and then a week later
it's kind of just standing rightthere in front of you.

Speaker 15 (36:38):
It was right there.
It's been there the whole time,but I never even considered
whole food plant-based.
I don't know why I just haveembraced the idea that I'm a
meat eater.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
I guess Right.

Speaker 15 (36:50):
And, in fact, one of the other life coaches that I
work with said you got to do apodcast called the Unlikely
Vegan, and I'm like I haveenough going on.
Sure, maybe sometime I will dothat, because I am an unlikely
candidate to have gone on thistype of eating plan, if there is
such a thing.

Speaker 3 (37:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 15 (37:10):
But here I am.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
Well, I'm sure so many people could relate to that
too, because I think so manypeople are like.
Either they said at one point Ican never give up cheese or I
can never live without meat.
And then here they are they'revegan or whole food plant-based.
It's like I never expected tobe here.

Speaker 15 (37:23):
Well, what I tell people is language is
declarative nature.
So if you say I can't gowithout meat, you can't, the
truth is you can, but the biggertruth in your particular life
is you are making that statement, you are declaring that you
can't go without cheese and meat.
Therefore, in fact, one of theclients in one of my coaching

(37:46):
classes said that, and I did thewrong thing.
He said I can't do a vegan diet.
I said I know you can't and hesaid what do you mean?
He got angry with me and I saidyou're declaring that you can't
do a vegan diet.
Therefore, you can't.
It's Henry Ford.
No relation said whether youthink you can or whether you
think you can't.
You're right and you'redeclaring that you can't.

(38:08):
So you can't Until you embracethe thought that that is a
possibility and you can do it ifyou decide to do it and use
this and see what happens, whichis what I did.
So if you would have known me,anyone who knows me and I said
if I were to tell you, buy Freda gift certificate to his

(38:29):
favorite restaurant, and yougave it to 50 people who know me
, not every one of them, withmaybe minor exceptions, would
give me a gift certificate toTeller's Chop House, which is my
favorite steakhouse of all timeYep.
And they know that I was a meateater.
I no longer am.

Speaker 3 (38:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 15 (38:53):
You know no one's.
You know it's been a crazy buta very fulfilling journey.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
OK, have you ever known someone who has made some
vegans or given people who eatplant-based a hard time?
Maybe you were one of thesepeople.
Well, today I am talking tosomeone who that used to be her
exactly to a T.
She used to give vegans,plant-based eaters, a hard time.
She couldn't understand why youwould eat that way, and it's

(39:21):
amazing how we can completelychange our tunes and turn 180.
And when we think I could nevergo plant-based, I could never
give a meat or I could nevergive up cheese, all of a sudden
we're on the other side of that,and that is who I'm talking to,
delaney Delaney Fisher, andshe's actually a professional
podcaster.
She's also a serialentrepreneur, is a meat and

(39:44):
advocate.
We are very grateful to be astepping stone, because I feel
like that is what it takes,especially when you're starting
to talk about it more.
It is.
It is scary, and especiallywhen you had different
viewpoints way back when, whichI feel like most people
listening can relate to that aswell.
It's like I used to say I couldnever give up cheese, or I used
to maybe make fun of that veganthat I would go out to eat with
, or whatever.
I feel like most of us canrelate to that at some level.

Speaker 16 (40:08):
Oh, totally.
I mean I was straight up meanto the only vegan person I knew,
Like I didn't realize I wasbeing mean.
I thought I was just beingjoking and funny, but I was rude
and.
I didn't.
And then it's so interestinghow life teaches you lessons,
because now I get those samecomments directed at me.
I was like, oh my gosh, Ireally owe this person an
apology, because now I know whatthis feels like on the

(40:30):
receiving end and it is not cool, but I've been that person.
So when people come at me withall kinds of stuff, I was like,
look, I get it.
I said those exact same things.
I know, I know exactly how tofeel.
I've been there.
I was eating meat and dairy for28 plus years of my life.
I got you.
I get it.

Speaker 2 (40:50):
Have you received much pushback?
I mean in addition to peopleasking questions or anything
like that.

Speaker 16 (40:54):
But yeah, I think more in social situations where
it's like OK, more for me,whatever you know that kind of
something like OK, cool, Ididn't say anything, or I hate
that phrase, or even stereotype,where it's like oh, if you
don't know somebody's vegan,don't worry, because they'll
tell you.
I'm sorry, y'all come at mewhen I'm at a party.

(41:15):
You guys come to me and askquestions.
I do not bring it up.
I don't like bringing it upbecause I don't like talking
about it when I'm the only onein the room, so I'm never going
to bring that shit up.

Speaker 12 (41:25):
Oh, I don't know if I can swear.

Speaker 16 (41:26):
Sorry, ashley, no, you can't.
And so when they're like, ohyeah, they're going to talk to
you about it, I don't like thatbecause it's not true.
It's not true to my experienceanyway.
But you know, what's so funnyis I was getting a lot of
questions and a little bit ofpushback from family and one of
my family members.
When I first said, hey, I'mgoing vegan, I truly felt like I

(41:48):
was coming out with a reallyhuge secret.
Like just so you know, I'vebeen vegan for many months and
like this is what I do now.
kind, of a thing, and thisparent of mine was like why are
you doing that?
Well, don't ruin everybodyelse's meal by telling us
anything about it, right?
Guess what?
That's my dad, and he is nowthe biggest vegan I have ever
met in my life.
What?
Yes, my dad and my stepmom bothwent vegan, I think maybe a

(42:13):
year or so after I did, notbecause of me, but because of
just other things that they werelooking into.
Maybe I introduced the idea alittle bit.
But they actually listened toone of my podcast episodes with
preacher Lawson, who's ahilarious comedian.

Speaker 2 (42:27):
I'm going to see him on Friday.

Speaker 16 (42:28):
I love him, he's so great.
Yeah, and he was talking abouthow he went vegan and how Ed
Winters Earthling.
Ed was a huge inspiration forhim.
He was so excited.
I'm going to be interviewingsoon and I cannot wait.
Oh my gosh, I got it.
Yes.
So my parents tuned into thatepisode.
They ended up watchingEarthlings together and, like

(42:49):
with 48 hours, they were vegan,and so it's very funny to see
the people that were giving mesome of the most pushback are
actually more vegan andoutspoken than I am.

Speaker 12 (43:01):
Like they are more passionate about it.

Speaker 16 (43:03):
Yes, that has been a very cool snowball effect to
see Nobody else in my family oranything is vegan.
But two of my parents made thatdecision and the results that
they have had have been mindblowing.
I mean everything from beingable to go off cholesterol and
blood pressure medication,sleeping better, joint pain.

(43:26):
My mom or my stepmom, hadhorrible allergies.
Like every day, all times ofthe year has no allergies
anymore, zero, wow.
It doesn't even have them Likewe went to.
There's a place called theGentle Barn in Santa Clarita.
Yes, I love that place and wewent there.
She's like, oh my gosh, Iforgot my allergy medication,
I'm going to be a mess.

(43:47):
Just nothing, no reaction.
They were so excited.
They told me that they got oneof their checkups from their
doctor.
They took their blood andlooked up all their levels and
they told my parents you guyshave the insides of if you were
30-something-year-olds.

Speaker 12 (44:02):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 16 (44:02):
And they're 50-60s, like whatever you're doing, keep
doing, because internallyyou're like 30 years old.
Wow.
Like that's crazy.
That's crazy to think that adoctor is telling you that you
are adding so many years to yourlife because of whatever
changes that you have made.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
Yep, yeah, yeah, because, delaney, I mean, when
you get old, you're supposed tohave high cholesterol, you're
supposed to have high bloodpressure You're supposed to be
the sickly person.
Yes, no, it doesn't have to bethat way.

Speaker 16 (44:29):
Yes, exactly, and we've been all shocked by that
Because I didn't even realizewhat that could do for somebody
close to 60 years old, right,what that lifestyle changed Like
oh gosh, well, you got likefive decades worth of stuff.
I wonder if it will do likesome of the same kind of
reversing that maybe it did forme and it did, and we were all
blown away.
I mean, they are so passionateabout it and I think it is

(44:52):
because they made that decisionin more like a midlife age range
, yeah, and I am so gratefulbecause I'm like I'm going to
have my parents longer on theplanet.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
Yes, oh my gosh.

Speaker 16 (45:03):
It's not just a diet Like it is your life.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
Yeah, absolutely, and not only are you going to have
them around longer, but they'reprobably going to feel better
than if they were to continuegoing up on their statins, going
up on their high blood pressuremedication, probably adding
more medication to the list Likewhat a difference in their
quality of life.

Speaker 16 (45:22):
Exactly and like you know what, if somebody was
promoting a pill that did all ofthis stuff, we would all be
taking it in a heartbeat yesRight, like we wouldn't even
have to think about it.
But because there'sunfortunately still such a
stigma around veganism andplant-based and whatever having
a dairy-free stuff that there'sso much resistance and I just

(45:44):
wish there wasn't.
I wish there wasn't so manyobstacles to having meaningful
conversations with people aboutit.
But there seems to be so muchresistance still.
And it just bums me out becauseI'm like I just really feel like
you're missing out and I careabout you, but I can't say that
because you're just going tolabel me a judgy pushy vegan.

Speaker 5 (46:05):
Right.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
Yeah.
Well, it's honestly people likeyou who are going out here
story being transparent,vulnerable, saying like, hey, I
didn't used to think this wayfive, six years ago.
That is going to help breakthis stigma that we have, and
it's examples of the laundrydetergent that's going to make
it even more relatable.

Speaker 16 (46:20):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 16 (46:24):
I really think of it as like if I was at brunch with
my girlfriends and somebody wastalking about how they had a
really bad rash on their arm orsomething and I knew exactly
what cream could cure the rashbecause I had tried it I would
not even think twice to be like,hey, you should try this cream
that I had.
I had that same rash and itcured it within a few days, or

(46:44):
whatever.
But when people, when I'm atbrunch and they're talking about
health related issues or thingslike that, I don't feel like I
can share as freely as like haveyou tried this thing?
Have you tried replacing thisproduct with this product?
Because they can't hear it.
They don't hear it.
They just hear vegan, vegan,vegan.

(47:05):
So, it makes me sad because Ishare other things freely, but I
just have learned who I canshare that stuff with and who I
can't.
And it's a bummer because youwant to help the people that you
love and you want to give themoptions, but there's just still
kind of a block there.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I know it seems like food howwe eat is just so wrapped up in
our identity.
It's hard when you're in thethick of it to see someone
else's point of view, no matterreally what it is and how
they're eating.
But when someone has had thesuccess like you have had, like
I have had, like I know a lot ofpeople listening have had, it's
so hard to watch others suffer.

(47:43):
When you're like I feel like Ipotentially have the answer for
you, but I can't quite say itbecause I know that there's this
wall that's already up or goingto be put up.
Yeah.

Speaker 16 (47:51):
Exactly, and it's almost like OK, how
uncomfortable do I feel likebeing today?

Speaker 4 (47:56):
If.

Speaker 16 (47:56):
I have to be super uncomfortable to bring this up.
Sometimes I will, depending,like if it's a family member or
something.
If it's a parent, I'll bring itup, but if it's a friend or an
acquaintance, I'm just notwilling to be this uncomfortable
for what I know is about tohappen.
I just have to kind of sit herequietly and bite my tongue a

(48:17):
little bit.
And yeah, it's unfortunate,because I really wish somebody
would have been able to getthrough to me as early as
possible.
I really wish, instead of beingrude to my first vegan friend
in college, I really wish thatshe would have been able to have
a conversation with me andmaybe open me up a little bit.

(48:37):
But I wasn't willing to hear it, I wouldn't be receptive to it,
and so I also think of that aslike I know that I would have
wanted somebody kind of in mycorner in that way.
Am I willing to be that personfor other people?
And the honest answer issometimes, and sometimes not,
because sometimes I just feellike I got to protect my own
energy and mental health aroundthe topic.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
Today I have an incredible guest with me.
Her name is Kate.
She hails from Australia, whichI didn't know when we were
recording, and we talk aboutthat a little bit later in our
conversation.
One thing that we talk abouttoday and if this is something
that you struggle with, it wasreally, really helpful we talk
about 10 tips to make adopting aplant-based lifestyle easy.

(49:21):
I know sometimes it can feellike a struggle or a hurdle or
like am I doing everything quoteright, these 10 tips are really
, really beneficial.
Kate also takes it a stepfurther and she is very
transparent about talking abouthow not to be angry when you're
vegan or you're plant-based.
We live in a non-vegan worldand so sometimes it can be

(49:44):
really challenging when familymembers or close friends just
don't quite understand and haveeven strangers sometimes, and so
she just shares her wisdomthere and I really appreciate it
.
Well, I know that you've beenin the fitness space for a
really long time, so I'm curious, when you made that transition
from vegetarian to vegan, if younoticed anything in your body

(50:05):
composition, in your recovery,your training, anything like
that.

Speaker 10 (50:10):
Great question I will share.
I was in a very male, dominantbro science type of a gym and I
was already the weird one forbeing vegetarian.
But they couldn't dispute thatI was fit and healthy and never
off work.
And when I announced that I'mnow going vegan, one of the
trainers who's veryscience-based and I do respect

(50:30):
he was like well, goodbye leanmuscle.
And at that point I had decidedthat it wasn't about vanity and
how I looked.
If I chucked on a bit of fatand lost a bit of muscle, that
was OK, it was worth it for theanimals and in fact really
nothing changed.
I maybe got a little bitstronger, I didn't lose muscle.

(50:51):
I didn't put on fat Like somany people come to realize.
The food was so much better.
I'd been quite kind of, I guess, basic with my lack of
diversity with my vegetariandiet.
I tried so much more with thevegan approach.
So only good things.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
Yes, oh, I love hearing that that is so amazing
that you got a little bitstronger your composition didn't
really change much and that youwere I'm assuming feeling
really great too, because youwere eating more variety and
kind of stepping outside whatyou'd eaten maybe for a long
time.

Speaker 10 (51:25):
The main thing was the emotional feeling and the
congruency and the lack of that.
You will notice, though, thatthe heaviness that you carry
around, even if you're unawareof that lack of congruency,
there's still a heavy witnessthat you carry around, and it's
like it's lifted when you reallydo align your eating actions

(51:45):
with your beliefs.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
It's true.
It's true.
There's something that thatconnection just goes so much
deeper with the food that you'reeating.
The appreciation I feel like isgreater.
And I feel like so many peoplealso say I am eating just like
you said.
Okay, I'm eating so much morethan I thought.
I'm going in parts of thegrocery store that I never
thought I would go into becauseI am vegan or plant based or not
eating to be meat anymore.

Speaker 10 (52:09):
For sure.
And like you're trying newfoods, you're finding new foods
less fear.
Like I come from thatbackground for like a decade or
so, where carbs were the enemyand it was all about super high
protein, super low carbohydrateand, bit by bit, I was just
seeking out those vegan I guesspositive influences who had the
body and the strength and thefitness that I wanted, and I was

(52:31):
looking at what they ate and Isaw that they ate potatoes and
bananas and lentils.
And I saw that they ate soy.
I'd been off soy for a fewyears by then, so so much
deliciousness invited back intomy life yes, I love hearing that
.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
And potatoes are amazing, so we love potatoes
around here and bananas.

Speaker 11 (52:50):
For sure, 100%.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
So today I have with me Lashonda, who is currently
living in Florida.
She is an attorney, wellnesscoach, business owner and lover
of all things health andnutrition.
She began her journey before, Iwould imagine, most of you
began your vegan journey, so sheshares what that day was or
what that year was.
And then, in 2013, as an outletfor grief after losing her

(53:17):
grandmother, she created aFacebook group and started
sharing some of her own journey.

Speaker 12 (53:22):
And then one day I remember it was right after
Fourth of July I was visiting myparents and I was the only one
at home didn't feel like cookingand decided to go out and like
grab you know some chicken orsomething.
Right, I remember it waschicken wings.
I never ate chicken wings, butfor some reason I grabbed them
for like two or three days.
Stage Great, that's all I waseating.
And I remember being home,bored out of my mind, and I

(53:47):
turned on the TV and nothing wason TV but PBS.
So turned on PBS and it musthave been like the marathon day
of food documentaries and it wasone after the next, after the
next, and then the one that gotme was the.
There was a documentary aboutparasites in chicken and at that

(54:10):
moment I went cold turkey.
I decided overnight I was likeokay, there was like two
different documentaries onparasites.
It was very detailed, yeah, andI just couldn't get it out of
my mind.
So I went cold turkey, but Ibelieve I was prepared for it,
right, because I was online backthen.
You didn't have a lot you knowto look at other than blogs, and

(54:32):
so I was following this younglady out of England and she was
doing.
She was overweight, she wasdoing juice cleansing, so all I
knew was either eat the chickenor juice cleanse.
And so I figured give up thechicken, give up the meat, and
I'm just going to do juicing,right.
And then I started that for alittle while.

(54:52):
And then I'm still followingher and looking for more
information, but still notfinding it.
And as I continued to research,I found some people who were raw
vegans.
So I started raw vegans, so Istarted this vegan journey, like
on the extreme.
And you didn't have theresources.

(55:15):
You didn't have the Facebook,you know.
You didn't have any of thesesocial media pages.
You hardly had any bloggers whoare out there.
You couldn't, you weren'trunning into anyone who was
vegan, or hardly.
You know, there were somevegetarians, but that was
completely different, and so Iwas just trying to like, not
stumble.
So as long as it was avegetable or fruit, I knew I was

(55:38):
in the right, you know.
And so I did that for about sixmonths and it just took a toll
on me.
It took such a big toll on me,health wise, that I was.
Finally, I remember one day Iwoke up, I was trying to get out
of bed and I remember my eyeswere open but my body couldn't
move.
And so I'm just sitting therelike trying to get my body to

(55:59):
move and I couldn't, and it tooka while.
And when I was finally able toget up I was slow, was a little
thargic, and a friend told me goto one of these natural like
grocery stores.
There's usually people there.
They can help you figure out,like what you need.
And one of the best thingshappened to me when I walked in
that store I let this lady knowwhat I was doing.

(56:21):
She understood it.
She was familiar with veganism.
She shared a little bit with me.
She was like you don't have tobe raw.
And then she's B12, whichliterally saved my life that I
would take the.
I've been taking B12 everysingle morning since 2006
because of this lady, oh mygoodness.

(56:41):
And it allowed me to.
It allows me to wake up in themorning, Like it.
I mean for me it was a miracledrug because I figured what was
happening is because I was doingraw and juicing, I was missing
the B12 and it dropped from me.
Yeah, right, and so, yeah,that's kind of how I started my
journey.
It really truly was a.
I tell people all the time Iwent vegan for health, but the

(57:05):
truth is I started veganismbecause of a chicken Right, so
it was really a little bit of amom Yep Chicken and parasites.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
Wow, that lady probably has no idea either the
impact that she had on you.
I mean, oh my goodness.

Speaker 12 (57:23):
And what it did.
It allowed me to understandthat.
Look, you know, even though Icouldn't find the resources
online, I could look into thecommunity for those resources,
and that opened up the door forme.
So at the time I was living inAtlanta, which there's a lot of
vegan restaurants there were alot of vegan restaurants back
then, some that were what didthey call like idol vegans, you

(57:47):
know kind of like a Rastafariantype of vegan, and so I was able
to taste some really greatvegan creations early in the
process, even though the stuffin the stores was horrible.
All the processed foods wereterrible.
Yeah, all the protein powdershad horrible aftertaste.
Yeah, process vegan food wasnot great.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
Yeah, no, no, not back in 2006.
That's for sure.
I mean, okay, I think, facebookI don't know if it had been
invented yet, or it was likejust becoming, like it was just
starting to come around.
Yeah, okay.
So, like technology and finding, having like resources or
information at your fingertipsback then was so much more
challenging to find, whether itwas, like you said, like through

(58:30):
a blog or through a forum whereyou're reading like post after
post.
I mean, sometimes you know youhad to go to your like library
or your encyclopedia to findsomething.
Yes, so I remember that.
This is why we talk aboutsupplementing with vitamin B12
all the time, because whenyou're eating a plant-forward
diet, our modern farmingpractices and just the way we
sanitize our produce nowadays,vitamin B12 isn't as a as of a

(58:54):
reliable source from the foodsthat we eat with compared to
like many, many years ago.
And so that's.
I'm so glad that you found that, lashonda.
Oh my goodness.

Speaker 12 (59:03):
Yeah, it's, and it's amazing because the days that I
did not take it now, duringthat time I was studying for the
bar exam, so I didn't have achoice but to be able to be
awake and alert, like it wasreally challenging time.
But the liquid B12 everymorning it was like I guess, you
know I don't drink coffee, so Iguess I look at it kind of like

(59:24):
it was kind of like my coffeein the morning, but it sustained
me throughout the day and if Ididn't take it then I went right
back to that lethargic stateand so, yeah, I make sure I have
my bottles with me when Itravel.
Yeah, like I have it all thetime and I look back at it now
and I'm like, wow, I had a lotof challenges in the beginning
that should have deterred me andI would say for the first four

(59:45):
years I was very, very diligentwith, you know, being 100%
compliant, like extremelydiligent.
I looked at one of your otherpodcasts and you had a young
lady on who was talking aboutPCOS.
So I also had PCOS and part ofthe reason why I stuck to the
diet is because of the PCOS.

(01:00:05):
Because someone one doctormentioned at some point in time
that I could get to the pointwhere I'm pre-diabetic or
diabetic and I was like that'sunacceptable.
Yeah, so I knew I could see theend and I was like, nope, you
know I'm going to have to stickthis thing out because I know
that this helps me.
All the symptoms, all theissues that come along with that

(01:00:25):
, I had all of them and themajority of them were just, you
know, they had diet down becauseof the diet, exercise and all
that helped keep my stresslevels down.
But the diet has the big, ithas had the biggest effect
overall, especially hormonally.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
I am very honored today to actually be
interviewing a fellow CrossFitathlete, which is really
exciting because we talk about alot of things which I will get
to in just a minute.
But not only am I interviewinga fellow CrossFit athlete, but
George Matthews, who is on theshow today.
He is a vegan athlete and hehappens to be the captain of the

(01:01:07):
vegan, strong plant-builtCrossFit team.
George is extremely passionateabout fitness and the vegan
lifestyle, and George is also ahelicopter pilot for the United
States Coast Guard, which hetalks about.
And if this, his vegan journeystarted after a health problem
while he was in white school andhis dream was to always become

(01:01:31):
a pilot in the Coast Guard, andhere he was facing a health
problem that was going toprobably get him let it be this
whole life from pursuing hisdreams Around 2008,.

Speaker 4 (01:01:41):
I was in flight school.
My full-time job is ahelicopter pilot in the Coast
Guard, so it was the only thingI ever wanted to do with my life
.
I spent my whole you know,younger life trying to get to
that point.
And then when I got to flightschool, I actually had a lot of
problems with sinuses.
So I was getting sinusinfections constantly pretty
much, and with that I was alwaystaking antibiotics.

(01:02:03):
Just felt like garbage so, andat the time I wasn't really
working out much.
I maybe drank too much, Ididn't sleep well, I didn't
really prioritize my health atall.
But I was at the point where Iwas about to get medically
disqualified from flighttraining and I had a surgery and
then I had to get a secondsurgery.
The first they fixed my septumand then they went in and like,

(01:02:24):
did some other stuff and neitherof the surgeries really worked.
So it was kind of the end ofthe road.
And I finally had a doctor whowas like, well, have you tried
cutting out dairy?
And I had never heard of that.
It didn't make any sense to me.
But I was willing to tryanything at that point because I
wanted to become a pilot and Ididn't want to get you know
stopped from doing that becauseof my sinus problem.

(01:02:44):
So I cut out dairy and almostimmediately felt better.
It was kind of incredible howquickly I recovered from that
and really since then haven'tI've maybe had to take
antibiotics maybe once Sincethen and, you know, since 2008,
my sinus problems were basicallygone.
So I got very curious after thatinitial just switch and I

(01:03:07):
thought maybe, hey, let's try toget rid of red meat and see how
I feel.
So I felt a little bit betterafter that and then I went.
After I finished flight school,I went to Puerto Rico and I was
eating chicken and fish andthen eventually just stopped
eating all that and went fullyvegan.
And it was really when Ilearned about the ethical and
the environmental and the otherparts of veganism that I really

(01:03:27):
got into it and have been vegannow for 10, 11 years, 12 years,
something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
Wow, that's incredible.
What's wild, too, is that thisis something that you were
looking forward to doing.
It sounded like your entirelife, like you wanted to be a
pilot.
You wanted to go through flightschool, which, from what I
understand, is not easy to getthrough.
Is that right?
It wasn't for me.

Speaker 4 (01:03:48):
I'm sure some people would say it was easy.
But no, I challenge.
It was a huge challenge for me.
In the midst of trying to getmedically disqualified, I also
came very close to failing out.
I got to the point where I hadto get a board where they talked
about my performance and allthat stuff and then I was
basically at the point of if Ifailed another flight or another
event, I was going to be goinghome.

(01:04:08):
So I went through aboutprobably a year and a half of
having my back against the ropeswithout it.
So I barely made it.
Barely made it, but survivedand doing it now.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
Yes, and it's wild that something I don't want to
say, something that really youweren't really taught a lot
about growing up with your sinusissues, that this was something
that almost got you medicallydisqualified from again holding
you up from pursuing your dream.

Speaker 4 (01:04:33):
Yeah, I didn't really expect that and, you know,
never in a million years would Ihave thought that that was the
thing that would have stopped me.
I mean, granted, even in full,100% health.
I was so close to failing outanyway, but that certainly
didn't help.
But, yeah, that was almost thething that ended in, and there's
so many medical tests andlittle things that they do where
you can get disqualified fromall these things and people
actually get medicallydisqualified for a lot of

(01:04:54):
different stuff going into it.
So I was extremely fortunatethat we kind of figured it out
and were able to get throughthat.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
Yeah, yeah.
So then you, your doctorrecommends giving up dairy.
You give it a try and it soundslike.
From then on you're like, wow,there's actually something to
this, because it made an impacton your health.

Speaker 4 (01:05:12):
Yeah, a huge impact.
And that's what people ask me alot.
They're like, you know, did younotice anything different?
And really I went vegan overyou know period of probably
three or four, maybe five years,something like that.
So.
But immediately after cuttingout dairy, it was night and day.
I felt totally differentbecause I had some type of an
allergy from that.
So I felt way way better afterthat and then, incrementally,

(01:05:33):
each step I took to removethings from my diet, I felt
better and better and now Ithink it's a huge, you know,
reason that I'm able to performand still do this job many years
later.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
Thank you so much for listening to the Plant Centered
and Thriving podcast today.
If you found this episodeinspiring, please share it with
a friend or post it on socialmedia and tag me so I can
personally say thank you.
Until next time, keep thriving.

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