"Use your voice. You know your body better than anybody else."
Have you ever felt the chill from the cold shoulder of medical professionals? That's the frosty reality Kathy, a seasoned dietitian from Anchorage, Alaska, warms us with on today's episode. Her tale is more than just about surviving the frigid temperatures; it's a harrowing journey through the complexities of health advocacy in the face of being misunderstood by those sworn to help.
Resources from this Episode:
"An American Sickness"
If you want to connect with Kathy, visit the following:
Instagram: @knunez1982
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Plant-Centered and Thriving
Podcast.
I'm your host, ashley Kitchens.
I'm a plant-based registereddietitian and virtual nutrition
mentor.
I was raised on an Angus CattleFarm, grew up with a lot of GI
issues and used the power ofplant-based eating to promote
healing.
Here you'll find inspiration,ideas and encouragement for your
(00:23):
own plant-based journey.
I'm so thrilled you're heretoday.
Let's get started.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to the show Plant-Centered Listener.
My name is Ashley and I am yourhost today.
And today I have a very specialguest and a very special story
for you.
Imagine going to the doctor.
This is how the story startsout you go to the doctor, you're
diagnosed with a diagnosis thatyou probably have and are
started on a medication, noquestions asked.
(00:51):
This is what you're supposed tobe doing.
A few years later, you go backto the doctor and you're told
that it's not an if but a whenthat you're going to get type 2
diabetes, that it's basicallyinevitable.
There's nothing you can do toavoid it.
Well, that is the story of ourguest today.
Our guest name is Kathy.
She is also a registereddietitian and nutritionist and
(01:13):
she currently works as aclinical dietitian at a hospital
in Anchorage, alaska.
This is Kathy's personal storyand her account for what the
past few years have been like,as she's gone from doctor to
doctor and has struggled to beseen and heard.
Please join me in welcoming theincredible Kathy to the show.
So I guess I first want to talkabout how you and I met,
(01:38):
because it was gosh, has it beena year and a half, two years
almost, but you flew in all theway from Alaska.
I remember seeing that in yourintake form being like oh my
goodness, someone is coming tothis retreat from Alaska and I
just felt just unbelievablygrateful, I mean, for everybody
who came.
But I just thought it wasreally cool that he really made
the trek over.
But I'm curious what life islike in Alaska.
(02:02):
I know the listener I'm surewill be curious to and also
remind me and the listener whatbrought you out there in the
first place.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
My husband actually brought me to Alaska and I was
kicking and screaming anddragging my feet the entire way.
I still have moments where itfeels like that, but he was
stationed up here.
He joined the Army in 2004.
And so after basic and all ofthat, he was stationed up here.
(02:31):
It was his first duty stationand then around that time
deployments they were just backto back, so about every every
year or so he would deploy again, and so it just prolonged our
stay here and he loved it hereand my parents live here.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
And did they always?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
live there, no.
So my parents moved here.
Oh, 2001, maybe.
Okay, my dad decided that hecame here.
He fell in love.
He decided he was going toretire here.
I refused to move with them.
I graduated in 2000.
And I said absolutely not notgoing with you, not going to
(03:14):
Alaska, hate the cold, I am asunshine person.
And then we moved here.
Literally, like what?
Four years later, the universeis like surprise, you're going,
whether you like it or not.
Yeah, and just in case youdon't know this yet, you're
going to spend the rest of yourlife here.
(03:34):
We did.
We did leave in 2013.
We moved to Hawaii for a fewyears and then we came back more
so for stability, for the kids,we wanted to give them
something that we kind of didn'treally have, because growing up
, we both grew up in themilitary.
You don't have that network ofpeople that stay with you, your
(03:56):
your whole life kind ofsituation.
So we wanted to kind of givethem the same school, the same
chance at the same group offriends, the same community.
So we, we came back and he saidit was only for a few years.
He's just like let's just givehim a few years.
His new thing now is what if weget you an apartment in a place
(04:18):
that you really love and at thewinter, you know, during the
coldest part of the winter yougo and hang out there for a
little bit and then, because Ido love it here, Well, because
you're a very adventurous person.
I really like it.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
So I know, yeah, I know you like to get out and
hike and do different things,but oh, yeah, what are some
things that you love, I love?
Speaker 3 (04:36):
hiking, kayaking.
The lakes here are just.
You got 360 mountain views allthe way around you on the lakes.
Plus you get to see like theeagles and just I've ran into a
moose Well, thankfully I was onthe water, but just the kind of
things that you get to see thatyou don't really get to see
(04:57):
elsewhere.
So kayaking and hiking are mybig.
Let's go outside and do this,trying really, really hard to
get outside even when it issuper cold.
I know that the lower 48 isgetting hit with our usual
temperatures, but just makingsure to go outside every day,
get some of that sunshine thatwe really don't have.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Right, what is that like actually right now?
Speaker 3 (05:26):
We actually have sun.
So December 21st was ourshortest day.
We've been getting minutes.
So when you said sit by the sunor sit by a window, it was just
like oh, I hope the sun is up.
So it was like I think our sun,it was probably about 10, 30,
40.
So we're gaining daylight.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yep, that's good, that's good, a little bit, yeah,
and I know that because you dolike to be out in nature a lot
like there is something kind oftherapeutic to that or like very
just there's a mental andemotional component that's very
encouraging and uplifting, Iwould imagine.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
The air, oh, not even just the daylight and being
outside Just there's a crispnessto the air.
I know, on the bad days, if Istay inside, even as enticing as
it sounds to just like curl upon the couch and hide, even 15
minutes just can reseteverything.
(06:25):
Well, it may not take away thebad day, but it can at least
help you reset?
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yes, definitely, and it really isn't the weather
that's the issue, it's theclothing.
So if you have the rightclothing the boots, the mask,
like all that you can make ithappen.
I think that's kind of wherethe hangup is sometimes like, oh
, it's so cold outside, but it'slike, as long as you have the
right clothes, it really isn'tthat bad Invest.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
That's when people come up here.
We're just like invest, Becauseif you don't, you're absolutely
right.
If you do not have, if youdon't have the right clothing,
if you don't have the rightsocks, you're just gonna be
absolutely miserable.
You could be super warm andtoasty, but if your feet are
cold, oh yeah, no.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
It's over.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Yes, it is yeah that sounds horrible.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Okay, so I obviously I know what you do in Alaska,
but I would love for you kind ofjust give a little preview of
what you kind of do on aday-to-day basis work-wise.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
I'm a registered dietitian and I work at one of
the hospital's here.
I'm a clinical dietitian, soright now I currently work more
so on the floors, like a stepdown from ICU.
So they're so pretty sickthey're coming out of surgery.
That kind of thing Still needpretty round the clock care.
But that's pretty much thepopulation that I'm working with
right now.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, is there anything being in Alaska?
Is there anything that youmight see more often as a
dietitian up there or evencounsel people on more often
than someone like me would seein North Carolina?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
The one thing that I feel like I see all the time but
alcoholism, it's just thatadvanced cirrhosis of the liver,
the brain, just the early onsetdementia.
That's a lot of what I see upthere every given day.
(08:10):
It's horrible and it makes youreally think like, is that a
glass of whatever really worthit?
So, I was just like it's notworth it, not what I'm seeing,
and some of these peoplewouldn't say that they are
alcoholics or they have an issuewith alcohol.
They just have one or twodrinks a night.
(08:31):
So that's a lot of what we seeand it's pretty big here, and
that's kind of what happens inthe winter.
I'm sure that's everywhere, butI feel like we have such a huge
issue with alcoholism but wealso have a massive homeless
population, and so those twokind of go hand in hand.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Well, you had messaged me on Instagram, which
we messaged every once in awhile on Instagram, and you kind
of gave me a background into,or like a little glimpse into,
like what had been going on withyou and your story and kind of
your medical history.
And I just remember reading itand being like my mouth was open
.
I know that reading it.
It's reading this message onInstagram, this DM, and
immediately I asked Kathy.
(09:08):
I was like would you mindcoming on the podcast and
sharing your story, just becauseI know that so many people can
relate to what it is that youwent through and even just what
you're doing now and trying tomaintain overall like a quote
healthy lifestyle.
Yeah, I would love for you tokind of share what you did with
me, with our listeners as well.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
I have struggled with weight for pretty much my
entire adult life, and so I wasgoing into the doctor.
I was going in quite often, andI would go in there and I would
say you know I'm doing this,I'm doing this.
This is how I eat.
This is like what is going on.
And you know, I got met withquite a few providers Like I had
(09:49):
one in particular.
I mean I still remember he saidput the foods that you want to
eat in the middle of therefrigerator so that when you
open the refrigerator, that'sall you eat.
So he didn't listen to mebecause that's not how I was
eating.
He told me to eat more proteins.
So he's just like eat more leanproteins and stay away from the
(10:11):
white stuff.
But the kicker for me was whenhe added cheese to the protein,
that lean protein list and thatwas my first red flag, because
I'm allergic to dairy and havebeen my entire life and he's my
doctor and he's got my medicalrecord.
While he was talking to me, hewas circling my BMI, which, like
I'm watching him circle my BMI,like I mean I know what I'm,
(10:35):
that's why I'm here.
Right kind of situation.
I am struggling to fit thispackage and everything that the
world is saying I should bedoing.
I am doing and it's not.
It's not working for me andanother provider and they're not
all males, but predominantlymale Another provider he told me
to put down the Doritos and,again, I'm allergic to dairy, so
(11:01):
I'm not eating Doritos, right?
It's horrifying, and so, anyway,yeah, I was struggling and a
female doctor decided that Imust have PCOS.
So she was just like you havePCOS, polycystic Ogrosin, we're
gonna start you on Metformin.
And so she, in 2014, that washer plan and you know, I mean, I
(11:26):
did.
I did start losing weight, butwhen I look back, I also picked
up weight training.
So I don't know how much of itwas them Metformin and how much
of it was the differentactivities.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
When the Metformin was recommended, was that up for
debate?
Or was there like a dialogue oflike this is kind of the best
path moving forward, or this waslike it's, this is what we're
gonna do?
Speaker 3 (11:49):
no question, this is, this is what we're gonna do.
Really no question.
And honestly, if if one persontakes anything away from what I
have to say, it's do yourhomework.
Just because they have ND or DOor doesn't necessarily mean
that they a have your bestinterest at heart or B.
(12:10):
They don't know everything,they don't think they don't know
what's best for you, so kind of, just do your homework.
I didn't know about Metforminso I was just like, okay, well,
my doctor says that this is whatI need to do.
She's given me this diagnosis.
I didn't know really what thatwas.
I actually started feelingweird about a year or so into it
(12:34):
.
I can't really say what theweirdness was, but I started
getting this weird cough.
Just just things.
Just I wasn't my best, eventhough the way that I was eating
and moving.
I should have been my best.
I went into I think it was 2019.
I went in and I was having alot, of, lot of medical issues.
(12:57):
I demanded that they do fullblood tests because something
was wrong with me.
I was having a lot of issues inmy hands.
Just a lot of things were goingwrong and I ended up testing
positive for an A&A, but also myA1C is now 5.6, so it went from
5.4 to 5.6.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Were you still in the Metformin?
Speaker 3 (13:21):
I was still in the Metformin and he wanted to up my
dose and I wanted off of it.
But I wanted to know how to getoff of it safely.
And he told me that he didn'tagree with my decision to stop
taking it.
But I wanted to stop taking itsafely.
I didn't want to just stoptaking it because I had been
taking it for quite a few years,yeah, and he in that moment
(13:44):
told me that it wasn't.
If it was a, when I was goingto be diagnosed with diabetes so
I needed to continue to takethe Metformin.
Well, I just I stopped takingthe Metformin and then, six
months later I don't know ifthere's a correlation the people
tell me that there, that thereisn't, but six months later I
did not have an A&A, I did nottest positive for an A&A.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Which would you mind explaining what that is for the
listener?
Speaker 3 (14:08):
It's basically a biomarker for autoimmune disease
.
It doesn't necessarily mean youhave one, but they start
looking and so.
But six months later I was veryunclear and I was not taking
Metformin.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Interesting, very interesting.
Did you end up cutting theMetformin off, like just did you
do it cold turkey, or did youtaper off like actually I don't
even know what's appropriate forthat?
Speaker 3 (14:31):
I actually just I just cut it out and I don't know
if that's safe.
I did okay, I'm not saying that, that I don't know if it's safe
.
I wasn't taking such a highdose, so a lot of people the max
dose is like 2,000 and I wasn'teven close to the max dose.
I was at 500, so I just stoppedtaking it.
But I was very concerned, likeI just kept hearing that it's
(14:55):
not if it's when.
Yeah, and we have a history ofdiabetes in my family, type 2
diabetes in my family and so Ijust kind of like was getting
hit with diabetes everywherediabetes in my profession.
I, you know, and it was, it wasa, it was a lot.
I was dreaming about beingdiagnosed with diabetes.
(15:16):
Okay, and for people watching,try to remember that I see the
sickest of the sick, I see likethe one percent rate of the
population.
They're the sickest of ourpopulation and when it feels
like everybody around you hasdiabetes and it's contributing
to their medical course and it'scontributing to their quality
(15:40):
of life, I was terrified.
I was terrified of beingdiagnosed with diabetes, even
though I have the tools tomanage it.
I was terrified and so Istarted just believing I had
diabetes, because why wouldn't Ihave diabetes?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, you were told it was gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Yeah, and I started with a A1C of 5.4 and then it
was 5.6 and so it was going tohappen.
That's how I felt like it wasgoing to happen, and so I just
started believing.
Well, okay, this eye fuzzinessin one eye is diabetes.
Like I just started.
I don't wanna say hypochondriac, but I really did start to
(16:26):
believe that I was gonna go tothe doctors and I was gonna have
a diagnosis of diabetes.
I finally just went to thedoctor.
Well, I messaged you in Octoberof 23.
Yep, I went to the doctor.
I was actually forced to go tothe doctor by my allergist
because my labs came backslightly abnormal for iron, and
(16:52):
so he wanted me to go into thedoctor just to make sure all was
good there.
So he forced me to go to see myPCP.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Cause you had been avoiding it essentially since
you were told that this is gonnahappen.
That was in 2019.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
I had been avoiding the doctor for pretty much
anything, because I felt likethey weren't going to be
listening to what I was saying,they were just seeing, and so
they were going off of what theywere seeing.
That's how I felt they weren'tlistening to me, they weren't
listening to my lifestyle, theyweren't listening to my
profession, even Just didn'tfeel like I was being heard.
(17:28):
And so I was forced and when Iwent in I had decided okay, well
, I have to go in and they'regonna recheck my labs.
And so I worked myself up.
Oh my gosh, my blood pressurewas so high and my heart rate
(17:49):
was just like.
So they take my blood pressureand they check my heart rate and
they don't say anything.
And then the provider comes inand I have like the nervous
breakdown in the room, allbecause I want to make sure that
she checks my A1C.
Yeah, because it's not justgonna be checked, like I want
(18:10):
her to check my A1C, but it'sall because I wanna ask her to
check my A1C.
And that's so funny.
I start talking to her and sheknows that I'm a dietitian, she
knows that I'm vegan, she knowsall of this stuff.
And I start talking to her andI said, okay, so when we get the
labs back, I do not want to goon Metformin and I want three
(18:31):
months to show you that I canmanage and take care of this
myself.
And it still makes me laugh.
She probably thought I was nuts.
It still makes me laugh becauseshe said can we just run the
test first?
Just like, can we like let'ssee what's going on before we
like jump to it?
And I'm just like, yeah, that'sfine, that's fine.
(18:53):
And she says that she wants torecheck my heart rate and it had
gone down.
It was over 100.
And so now I'm sitting thereand we're down.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
We're good, we're 100 .
Speaker 3 (19:05):
And I ask her if she wants to recheck my blood
pressure, and she says I don'tthink we're there yet Because I
was still.
I had, finally, I like sobbedout the question I want you to
check my A1C and she promised methat she would not call unless
something was abnormal.
And within an hour my phonestarted ringing and it was my
(19:26):
provider, and so then theanxiety starts again, of course,
and I'm with a patient, so I'mlike trying to give everything I
have to the patient, but allI'm thinking is they're calling,
something's wrong.
And anyway, I had also askedher please run a full lipid
(19:47):
panel, please, like literallycheck everything, just do a full
.
I told her exactly what Iwanted I want to know that
everything is good to go.
And it got to the patient's roomand I went out into the hallway
, like as far away as I could,and I called them back and the
tech answers and I tell them whoI am and all of that, and he
(20:11):
goes okay, so I have some labwork here that I need to review
with you.
You're A1C and I like startedlike I could still feel myself,
like I just sit down, like herewe go, like you've prepared
yourself for this, and then shegoes, he goes, it's 5.0.
And I was just like I don'teven think I heard anything more
(20:32):
than what he said, and I had toaccess my labs myself so that I
could really see them, and sothat's my A1C story, I suppose.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
And 5.0 is within normal limits.
I mean, that's a great A1Creading, where before it was
creeping up from 5.4 to 5.6.
And you were probably expectingto potentially just have
full-blown type 2 diabetes bythis point.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Absolutely.
I made myself believe that Iwas diabetic, and then I was
getting ready to navigate that.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
What do you think was helpful between that period of
seeing that provider in 2019 tomost recently having your labs
done in 2023?
What do you think sort ofchanged from that time period?
Speaker 3 (21:19):
I started to.
The biggest thing that Iactually changed was.
So I've been vegetarian, vegan,pretty much my entire life In
some way, shape or form.
There's been a few years hereand there where I was either.
It wasn't understood what I wasdoing, so animal proteins were
(21:42):
kind of forced because it is thenorm and this is what healthy
is.
And then when I was pregnantwith my children, I craved
burgers.
I craved the worst animalproteins, so the burgers and the
pizzas and the meats on thatkind of stuff.
(22:02):
But, like I said before, I'vebeen allergic to dairy my whole
life, so that has not reallybeen a thing.
Around 2011, 2012, I went strictvegan, started bringing that
into my house and then about.
I think it was Well, we starteddoing more like the whole foods
(22:24):
, probably around 2018, 2019.
But I really started to getinto the whole foods, plant
based, in 2021.
And so I really do feel likejust being more mindful of how
my food was being prepared andhow and what I was eating was
(22:47):
one of the things that helped,but also moving every day.
I think that also just tryingto be more mindful.
And when I think back, like Isaid, I was pretty sure I was
diagnosed with diabetes, and soI was really trying hard to do
all the things that I suggest mypatients who have diabetes do,
(23:11):
and so I was just like, okay, soif you move your body, that
means that the glucose is goingto your muscles and it's not
sticking in your blood, and ifyou pair your carbohydrates with
the protein source, it's aslower digestion.
So I was focusing a lot on thatas well.
So it wasn't just whole foods,plant based, but I was really
paying attention to what I wasdoing with my body and with what
(23:35):
I was eating.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Yeah, being much more mindful, kind of changing a
little bit of what you wereeating.
But overall it sounds like thatmindfulness piece played a big
role in trying to create someconsistency also in getting
outside and moving your body,like you said and we talk about
this a little bit on the showit's like it's not necessarily.
You're probably not motivatedto go out in like negative 20
degree weather, but I'm sureafterwards, if you think about,
(23:58):
okay, even though I'm notmotivated now, afterwards I know
I'm going to feel so muchbetter when I come back in the
house and take it off my coat,my boots and all that stuff, and
I'm sure that plays a big roletoo.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
It does when I leave for work, I might get home from
work.
It's dark.
It's dark a good portion of ourday, especially in the winter.
So at work we make sure to gooutside on our lunch.
Me and one of my colleagues myfriends we go outside and walk
on our lunch, and it's alwayslike that.
Oh, how cold is it.
As we're like layeringeverything on.
(24:27):
And then we get out there andwe're probably complaining about
the cold.
We're like I can't feel my nose, I can't feel my mouth, that
kind of thing.
But when we come back insidewe're like thank you, thank you
for making me walk, kind of asituation.
Yeah, I feel so good.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yes, yes.
Well, that's some greatencouragement right now as, like
you said, the lower 48 aregetting hit with snow and cold
temperatures.
It's a great reason andreminder that, hey, you can do
this, especially if you have theright equipment or clothes to
get outside, and you're going tofeel so much better when you
come back in.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Yeah, even 10 minutes , yeah, just I mean, it may take
you longer to get dressed, yeah, but it's just just go.
Yes, but that's what I think Idid.
I can only just keep doing that.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Well, you had mentioned sort of at the
beginning.
You know, if there is one thingthe listener could take away is
like just doing your researchand kind of just like trying to
look things up yourself tofigure out what is going on with
you, what the doctor's tellingyou.
I mean, because doctors arehuman too and it's like you said
they don't know everything.
Yeah, but I was curious, yeah,if someone's kind of in that
situation where they just feellike they aren't being listened
(25:38):
to, they aren't being heard, ifthere's any kind of other piece
of advice you would give tosomeone who's maybe anxious
about they might have apotential diagnosis coming up,
because their doctor said, well,hey, this is the writing on the
wall, it's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
My first thing that I wish that I did.
Try to tell myself I wasn'tsuper successful, so I do
understand how it sounds.
But my first thing iseverything is manageable, like
it's.
It's not the end of the world.
It really isn't the end of theworld.
Everything is manageable.
So even if you do have adiagnosis coming on that or
(26:11):
you're at risk even, or youthink that you do have Diabetes,
it is manageable and yourquality of life is Still.
Life is still worth living andyou can have a great life even
with a diagnosis of diabetes.
So that would be my first thingis know that it is manageable
and you can treat it.
Whether that's with medication,lifestyle, you can treat it.
(26:35):
There's amazing specialists outthere that can help you
Navigate that.
So I guess that would be thefirst thing.
But also, like, use your voice.
You know your body better thananybody else and you know what
you're doing also.
So just just I know it's hard,but just just use your voice.
If you cannot get them to run acertain test for you, ask them
(26:59):
to document why in your chart,because you are asking them to
run a test.
So just use your voice and askand then, if they say no, ask
them to document it in yourchart.
Smart, I love that, so thatwould be what I would recommend.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's a great piece of advice.
I actually just finishedlistening to a book called
American sickness and they talkabout the basically the our
American healthcare system, andone of the things that she
recommends over and over againis be the most difficult patient
possible, and that is askingfor things, asking them to
document as okay, if you're notgoing to run this vitamin D test
, why is that different thingslike that.
(27:38):
So I think that is a justphenomenal piece of advice, and
American sickness is a greatbook for any of you who are
curious to learn About howlovely our healthcare system is
yeah, make yourself memorable.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes , we remember you, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yeah, I promise.
Yes, you are worth fighting for, that is for sure, and
sometimes you're gonna be theonly one fighting for yourself.
Yeah, absolutely, I mean,chronic diseases are scary.
I mean they really are.
I mean I understand what you'resaying, that they don't have to
be, but it's any.
Really.
Any diagnosis that couldpotentially sort of alter the
medication that you're takingevery day or you know, kind of
(28:12):
your day-to-day activities, canbe a little frightening and I
feel like, especially in our dayand age, I don't know, I think
we make things out to be so muchscarier than they actually are
to.
But, like you're saying,everything is manageable.
We have such great medicationthese days and thankfully, there
are so many diet and lifestylefactors that you can change to
help manage what you'reundergoing or what you're going
through to, which is reallyencouraging.
(28:33):
Absolutely yeah, if someone,kathy, does want to reach out to
you or connect with you ormaybe they're in Alaska and I
just chit chat with you, whereis the best place for them to do
that Instagram and start there?
Well, we'll put your Instagramlink in the show notes, which is
Kathy and you Nia's 1982 K newNia's 19.
(28:53):
Okay, yes, okay, yeah, we'llput that in the show notes.
Well, I appreciate you, kathy,and I'm just so thankful that
you came on and we're vulnerableand shared your story, so thank
you.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Thank you yeah absolutely Well.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Thank you so much for tuning in today.
We also appreciate youlistening and taking the time
out of your day to listen tothis show.
So we will catch you on thenext episode.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Thank you so much for listening to the plant-centered
and thriving podcast today.
If you found this episodeinspiring, please share it with
a friend or post it on socialmedia and tag me so I can
personally say thank you.
Until next time, keep thriving.
Welcome to the Plant-Centered and Thriving
Podcast.
I'm your host, ashley Kitchens.
I'm a plant-based registereddietitian and virtual nutrition
mentor.
I was raised on an Angus CattleFarm, grew up with a lot of GI
issues and used the power ofplant-based eating to promote
healing.
Here you'll find inspiration,ideas and encouragement for your
(00:23):
own plant-based journey.
I'm so thrilled you're heretoday.
Let's get started.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to the show Plant-Centered Listener.
My name is Ashley and I am yourhost today.
And today I have a very specialguest and a very special story
for you.
Imagine going to the doctor.
This is how the story startsout you go to the doctor, you're
diagnosed with a diagnosis thatyou probably have and are
started on a medication, noquestions asked.
(00:51):
This is what you're supposed tobe doing.
A few years later, you go backto the doctor and you're told
that it's not an if but a whenthat you're going to get type 2
diabetes, that it's basicallyinevitable.
There's nothing you can do toavoid it.
Well, that is the story of ourguest today.
Our guest name is Kathy.
She is also a registereddietitian and nutritionist and
(01:13):
she currently works as aclinical dietitian at a hospital
in Anchorage, alaska.
This is Kathy's personal storyand her account for what the
past few years have been like,as she's gone from doctor to
doctor and has struggled to beseen and heard.
Please join me in welcoming theincredible Kathy to the show.
So I guess I first want to talkabout how you and I met,
(01:38):
because it was gosh, has it beena year and a half, two years
almost, but you flew in all theway from Alaska.
I remember seeing that in yourintake form being like oh my
goodness, someone is coming tothis retreat from Alaska and I
just felt just unbelievablygrateful, I mean, for everybody
who came.
But I just thought it wasreally cool that he really made
the trek over.
But I'm curious what life islike in Alaska.
(02:02):
I know the listener I'm surewill be curious to and also
remind me and the listener whatbrought you out there in the
first place.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
My husband actually brought me to Alaska and I was
kicking and screaming anddragging my feet the entire way.
I still have moments where itfeels like that, but he was
stationed up here.
He joined the Army in 2004.
And so after basic and all ofthat, he was stationed up here.
(02:31):
It was his first duty stationand then around that time
deployments they were just backto back, so about every every
year or so he would deploy again, and so it just prolonged our
stay here and he loved it hereand my parents live here.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
And did they always?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
live there, no.
So my parents moved here.
Oh, 2001, maybe.
Okay, my dad decided that hecame here.
He fell in love.
He decided he was going toretire here.
I refused to move with them.
I graduated in 2000.
And I said absolutely not notgoing with you, not going to
(03:14):
Alaska, hate the cold, I am asunshine person.
And then we moved here.
Literally, like what?
Four years later, the universeis like surprise, you're going,
whether you like it or not.
Yeah, and just in case youdon't know this yet, you're
going to spend the rest of yourlife here.
(03:34):
We did.
We did leave in 2013.
We moved to Hawaii for a fewyears and then we came back more
so for stability, for the kids,we wanted to give them
something that we kind of didn'treally have, because growing up
, we both grew up in themilitary.
You don't have that network ofpeople that stay with you, your
(03:56):
your whole life kind ofsituation.
So we wanted to kind of givethem the same school, the same
chance at the same group offriends, the same community.
So we, we came back and he saidit was only for a few years.
He's just like let's just givehim a few years.
His new thing now is what if weget you an apartment in a place
(04:18):
that you really love and at thewinter, you know, during the
coldest part of the winter yougo and hang out there for a
little bit and then, because Ido love it here, Well, because
you're a very adventurous person.
I really like it.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
So I know, yeah, I know you like to get out and
hike and do different things,but oh, yeah, what are some
things that you love, I love?
Speaker 3 (04:36):
hiking, kayaking.
The lakes here are just.
You got 360 mountain views allthe way around you on the lakes.
Plus you get to see like theeagles and just I've ran into a
moose Well, thankfully I was onthe water, but just the kind of
things that you get to see thatyou don't really get to see
(04:57):
elsewhere.
So kayaking and hiking are mybig.
Let's go outside and do this,trying really, really hard to
get outside even when it issuper cold.
I know that the lower 48 isgetting hit with our usual
temperatures, but just makingsure to go outside every day,
get some of that sunshine thatwe really don't have.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Right, what is that like actually right now?
Speaker 3 (05:26):
We actually have sun.
So December 21st was ourshortest day.
We've been getting minutes.
So when you said sit by the sunor sit by a window, it was just
like oh, I hope the sun is up.
So it was like I think our sun,it was probably about 10, 30,
40.
So we're gaining daylight.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yep, that's good, that's good, a little bit, yeah,
and I know that because you dolike to be out in nature a lot
like there is something kind oftherapeutic to that or like very
just there's a mental andemotional component that's very
encouraging and uplifting, Iwould imagine.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
The air, oh, not even just the daylight and being
outside Just there's a crispnessto the air.
I know, on the bad days, if Istay inside, even as enticing as
it sounds to just like curl upon the couch and hide, even 15
minutes just can reseteverything.
(06:25):
Well, it may not take away thebad day, but it can at least
help you reset?
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yes, definitely, and it really isn't the weather
that's the issue, it's theclothing.
So if you have the rightclothing the boots, the mask,
like all that you can make ithappen.
I think that's kind of wherethe hangup is sometimes like, oh
, it's so cold outside, but it'slike, as long as you have the
right clothes, it really isn'tthat bad Invest.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
That's when people come up here.
We're just like invest, Becauseif you don't, you're absolutely
right.
If you do not have, if youdon't have the right clothing,
if you don't have the rightsocks, you're just gonna be
absolutely miserable.
You could be super warm andtoasty, but if your feet are
cold, oh yeah, no.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
It's over.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Yes, it is yeah that sounds horrible.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Okay, so I obviously I know what you do in Alaska,
but I would love for you kind ofjust give a little preview of
what you kind of do on aday-to-day basis work-wise.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
I'm a registered dietitian and I work at one of
the hospital's here.
I'm a clinical dietitian, soright now I currently work more
so on the floors, like a stepdown from ICU.
So they're so pretty sickthey're coming out of surgery.
That kind of thing Still needpretty round the clock care.
But that's pretty much thepopulation that I'm working with
right now.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, is there anything being in Alaska?
Is there anything that youmight see more often as a
dietitian up there or evencounsel people on more often
than someone like me would seein North Carolina?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
The one thing that I feel like I see all the time but
alcoholism, it's just thatadvanced cirrhosis of the liver,
the brain, just the early onsetdementia.
That's a lot of what I see upthere every given day.
(08:10):
It's horrible and it makes youreally think like, is that a
glass of whatever really worthit?
So, I was just like it's notworth it, not what I'm seeing,
and some of these peoplewouldn't say that they are
alcoholics or they have an issuewith alcohol.
They just have one or twodrinks a night.
(08:31):
So that's a lot of what we seeand it's pretty big here, and
that's kind of what happens inthe winter.
I'm sure that's everywhere, butI feel like we have such a huge
issue with alcoholism but wealso have a massive homeless
population, and so those twokind of go hand in hand.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Well, you had messaged me on Instagram, which
we messaged every once in awhile on Instagram, and you kind
of gave me a background into,or like a little glimpse into,
like what had been going on withyou and your story and kind of
your medical history.
And I just remember reading itand being like my mouth was open
.
I know that reading it.
It's reading this message onInstagram, this DM, and
immediately I asked Kathy.
(09:08):
I was like would you mindcoming on the podcast and
sharing your story, just becauseI know that so many people can
relate to what it is that youwent through and even just what
you're doing now and trying tomaintain overall like a quote
healthy lifestyle.
Yeah, I would love for you tokind of share what you did with
me, with our listeners as well.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
I have struggled with weight for pretty much my
entire adult life, and so I wasgoing into the doctor.
I was going in quite often, andI would go in there and I would
say you know I'm doing this,I'm doing this.
This is how I eat.
This is like what is going on.
And you know, I got met withquite a few providers Like I had
(09:49):
one in particular.
I mean I still remember he saidput the foods that you want to
eat in the middle of therefrigerator so that when you
open the refrigerator, that'sall you eat.
So he didn't listen to mebecause that's not how I was
eating.
He told me to eat more proteins.
So he's just like eat more leanproteins and stay away from the
(10:11):
white stuff.
But the kicker for me was whenhe added cheese to the protein,
that lean protein list and thatwas my first red flag, because
I'm allergic to dairy and havebeen my entire life and he's my
doctor and he's got my medicalrecord.
While he was talking to me, hewas circling my BMI, which, like
I'm watching him circle my BMI,like I mean I know what I'm,
(10:35):
that's why I'm here.
Right kind of situation.
I am struggling to fit thispackage and everything that the
world is saying I should bedoing.
I am doing and it's not.
It's not working for me andanother provider and they're not
all males, but predominantlymale Another provider he told me
to put down the Doritos and,again, I'm allergic to dairy, so
(11:01):
I'm not eating Doritos, right?
It's horrifying, and so, anyway,yeah, I was struggling and a
female doctor decided that Imust have PCOS.
So she was just like you havePCOS, polycystic Ogrosin, we're
gonna start you on Metformin.
And so she, in 2014, that washer plan and you know, I mean, I
(11:26):
did.
I did start losing weight, butwhen I look back, I also picked
up weight training.
So I don't know how much of itwas them Metformin and how much
of it was the differentactivities.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
When the Metformin was recommended, was that up for
debate?
Or was there like a dialogue oflike this is kind of the best
path moving forward, or this waslike it's, this is what we're
gonna do?
Speaker 3 (11:49):
no question, this is, this is what we're gonna do.
Really no question.
And honestly, if if one persontakes anything away from what I
have to say, it's do yourhomework.
Just because they have ND or DOor doesn't necessarily mean
that they a have your bestinterest at heart or B.
(12:10):
They don't know everything,they don't think they don't know
what's best for you, so kind of, just do your homework.
I didn't know about Metforminso I was just like, okay, well,
my doctor says that this is whatI need to do.
She's given me this diagnosis.
I didn't know really what thatwas.
I actually started feelingweird about a year or so into it
(12:34):
.
I can't really say what theweirdness was, but I started
getting this weird cough.
Just just things.
Just I wasn't my best, eventhough the way that I was eating
and moving.
I should have been my best.
I went into I think it was 2019.
I went in and I was having alot, of, lot of medical issues.
(12:57):
I demanded that they do fullblood tests because something
was wrong with me.
I was having a lot of issues inmy hands.
Just a lot of things were goingwrong and I ended up testing
positive for an A&A, but also myA1C is now 5.6, so it went from
5.4 to 5.6.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Were you still in the Metformin?
Speaker 3 (13:21):
I was still in the Metformin and he wanted to up my
dose and I wanted off of it.
But I wanted to know how to getoff of it safely.
And he told me that he didn'tagree with my decision to stop
taking it.
But I wanted to stop taking itsafely.
I didn't want to just stoptaking it because I had been
taking it for quite a few years,yeah, and he in that moment
(13:44):
told me that it wasn't.
If it was a, when I was goingto be diagnosed with diabetes so
I needed to continue to takethe Metformin.
Well, I just I stopped takingthe Metformin and then, six
months later I don't know ifthere's a correlation the people
tell me that there, that thereisn't, but six months later I
did not have an A&A, I did nottest positive for an A&A.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Which would you mind explaining what that is for the
listener?
Speaker 3 (14:08):
It's basically a biomarker for autoimmune disease
.
It doesn't necessarily mean youhave one, but they start
looking and so.
But six months later I was veryunclear and I was not taking
Metformin.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Interesting, very interesting.
Did you end up cutting theMetformin off, like just did you
do it cold turkey, or did youtaper off like actually I don't
even know what's appropriate forthat?
Speaker 3 (14:31):
I actually just I just cut it out and I don't know
if that's safe.
I did okay, I'm not saying that, that I don't know if it's safe
.
I wasn't taking such a highdose, so a lot of people the max
dose is like 2,000 and I wasn'teven close to the max dose.
I was at 500, so I just stoppedtaking it.
But I was very concerned, likeI just kept hearing that it's
(14:55):
not if it's when.
Yeah, and we have a history ofdiabetes in my family, type 2
diabetes in my family and so Ijust kind of like was getting
hit with diabetes everywherediabetes in my profession.
I, you know, and it was, it wasa, it was a lot.
I was dreaming about beingdiagnosed with diabetes.
(15:16):
Okay, and for people watching,try to remember that I see the
sickest of the sick, I see likethe one percent rate of the
population.
They're the sickest of ourpopulation and when it feels
like everybody around you hasdiabetes and it's contributing
to their medical course and it'scontributing to their quality
(15:40):
of life, I was terrified.
I was terrified of beingdiagnosed with diabetes, even
though I have the tools tomanage it.
I was terrified and so Istarted just believing I had
diabetes, because why wouldn't Ihave diabetes?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, you were told it was gonna happen.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Yeah, and I started with a A1C of 5.4 and then it
was 5.6 and so it was going tohappen.
That's how I felt like it wasgoing to happen, and so I just
started believing.
Well, okay, this eye fuzzinessin one eye is diabetes.
Like I just started.
I don't wanna say hypochondriac, but I really did start to
(16:26):
believe that I was gonna go tothe doctors and I was gonna have
a diagnosis of diabetes.
I finally just went to thedoctor.
Well, I messaged you in Octoberof 23.
Yep, I went to the doctor.
I was actually forced to go tothe doctor by my allergist
because my labs came backslightly abnormal for iron, and
(16:52):
so he wanted me to go into thedoctor just to make sure all was
good there.
So he forced me to go to see myPCP.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Cause you had been avoiding it essentially since
you were told that this is gonnahappen.
That was in 2019.
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
I had been avoiding the doctor for pretty much
anything, because I felt likethey weren't going to be
listening to what I was saying,they were just seeing, and so
they were going off of what theywere seeing.
That's how I felt they weren'tlistening to me, they weren't
listening to my lifestyle, theyweren't listening to my
profession, even Just didn'tfeel like I was being heard.
(17:28):
And so I was forced and when Iwent in I had decided okay, well
, I have to go in and they'regonna recheck my labs.
And so I worked myself up.
Oh my gosh, my blood pressurewas so high and my heart rate
(17:49):
was just like.
So they take my blood pressureand they check my heart rate and
they don't say anything.
And then the provider comes inand I have like the nervous
breakdown in the room, allbecause I want to make sure that
she checks my A1C.
Yeah, because it's not justgonna be checked, like I want
(18:10):
her to check my A1C, but it'sall because I wanna ask her to
check my A1C.
And that's so funny.
I start talking to her and sheknows that I'm a dietitian, she
knows that I'm vegan, she knowsall of this stuff.
And I start talking to her andI said, okay, so when we get the
labs back, I do not want to goon Metformin and I want three
(18:31):
months to show you that I canmanage and take care of this
myself.
And it still makes me laugh.
She probably thought I was nuts.
It still makes me laugh becauseshe said can we just run the
test first?
Just like, can we like let'ssee what's going on before we
like jump to it?
And I'm just like, yeah, that'sfine, that's fine.
(18:53):
And she says that she wants torecheck my heart rate and it had
gone down.
It was over 100.
And so now I'm sitting thereand we're down.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
We're good, we're 100 .
Speaker 3 (19:05):
And I ask her if she wants to recheck my blood
pressure, and she says I don'tthink we're there yet Because I
was still.
I had, finally, I like sobbedout the question I want you to
check my A1C and she promised methat she would not call unless
something was abnormal.
And within an hour my phonestarted ringing and it was my
(19:26):
provider, and so then theanxiety starts again, of course,
and I'm with a patient, so I'mlike trying to give everything I
have to the patient, but allI'm thinking is they're calling,
something's wrong.
And anyway, I had also askedher please run a full lipid
(19:47):
panel, please, like literallycheck everything, just do a full
.
I told her exactly what Iwanted I want to know that
everything is good to go.
And it got to the patient's roomand I went out into the hallway
, like as far away as I could,and I called them back and the
tech answers and I tell them whoI am and all of that, and he
(20:11):
goes okay, so I have some labwork here that I need to review
with you.
You're A1C and I like startedlike I could still feel myself,
like I just sit down, like herewe go, like you've prepared
yourself for this, and then shegoes, he goes, it's 5.0.
And I was just like I don'teven think I heard anything more
(20:32):
than what he said, and I had toaccess my labs myself so that I
could really see them, and sothat's my A1C story, I suppose.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
And 5.0 is within normal limits.
I mean, that's a great A1Creading, where before it was
creeping up from 5.4 to 5.6.
And you were probably expectingto potentially just have
full-blown type 2 diabetes bythis point.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Absolutely.
I made myself believe that Iwas diabetic, and then I was
getting ready to navigate that.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
What do you think was helpful between that period of
seeing that provider in 2019 tomost recently having your labs
done in 2023?
What do you think sort ofchanged from that time period?
Speaker 3 (21:19):
I started to.
The biggest thing that Iactually changed was.
So I've been vegetarian, vegan,pretty much my entire life In
some way, shape or form.
There's been a few years hereand there where I was either.
It wasn't understood what I wasdoing, so animal proteins were
(21:42):
kind of forced because it is thenorm and this is what healthy
is.
And then when I was pregnantwith my children, I craved
burgers.
I craved the worst animalproteins, so the burgers and the
pizzas and the meats on thatkind of stuff.
(22:02):
But, like I said before, I'vebeen allergic to dairy my whole
life, so that has not reallybeen a thing.
Around 2011, 2012, I went strictvegan, started bringing that
into my house and then about.
I think it was Well, we starteddoing more like the whole foods
(22:24):
, probably around 2018, 2019.
But I really started to getinto the whole foods, plant
based, in 2021.
And so I really do feel likejust being more mindful of how
my food was being prepared andhow and what I was eating was
(22:47):
one of the things that helped,but also moving every day.
I think that also just tryingto be more mindful.
And when I think back, like Isaid, I was pretty sure I was
diagnosed with diabetes, and soI was really trying hard to do
all the things that I suggest mypatients who have diabetes do,
(23:11):
and so I was just like, okay, soif you move your body, that
means that the glucose is goingto your muscles and it's not
sticking in your blood, and ifyou pair your carbohydrates with
the protein source, it's aslower digestion.
So I was focusing a lot on thatas well.
So it wasn't just whole foods,plant based, but I was really
paying attention to what I wasdoing with my body and with what
(23:35):
I was eating.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Yeah, being much more mindful, kind of changing a
little bit of what you wereeating.
But overall it sounds like thatmindfulness piece played a big
role in trying to create someconsistency also in getting
outside and moving your body,like you said and we talk about
this a little bit on the showit's like it's not necessarily.
You're probably not motivatedto go out in like negative 20
degree weather, but I'm sureafterwards, if you think about,
(23:58):
okay, even though I'm notmotivated now, afterwards I know
I'm going to feel so muchbetter when I come back in the
house and take it off my coat,my boots and all that stuff, and
I'm sure that plays a big roletoo.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
It does when I leave for work, I might get home from
work.
It's dark.
It's dark a good portion of ourday, especially in the winter.
So at work we make sure to gooutside on our lunch.
Me and one of my colleagues myfriends we go outside and walk
on our lunch, and it's alwayslike that.
Oh, how cold is it.
As we're like layeringeverything on.
(24:27):
And then we get out there andwe're probably complaining about
the cold.
We're like I can't feel my nose, I can't feel my mouth, that
kind of thing.
But when we come back insidewe're like thank you, thank you
for making me walk, kind of asituation.
Yeah, I feel so good.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yes, yes.
Well, that's some greatencouragement right now as, like
you said, the lower 48 aregetting hit with snow and cold
temperatures.
It's a great reason andreminder that, hey, you can do
this, especially if you have theright equipment or clothes to
get outside, and you're going tofeel so much better when you
come back in.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Yeah, even 10 minutes , yeah, just I mean, it may take
you longer to get dressed, yeah, but it's just just go.
Yes, but that's what I think Idid.
I can only just keep doing that.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Well, you had mentioned sort of at the
beginning.
You know, if there is one thingthe listener could take away is
like just doing your researchand kind of just like trying to
look things up yourself tofigure out what is going on with
you, what the doctor's tellingyou.
I mean, because doctors arehuman too and it's like you said
they don't know everything.
Yeah, but I was curious, yeah,if someone's kind of in that
situation where they just feellike they aren't being listened
(25:38):
to, they aren't being heard, ifthere's any kind of other piece
of advice you would give tosomeone who's maybe anxious
about they might have apotential diagnosis coming up,
because their doctor said, well,hey, this is the writing on the
wall, it's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
My first thing that I wish that I did.
Try to tell myself I wasn'tsuper successful, so I do
understand how it sounds.
But my first thing iseverything is manageable, like
it's.
It's not the end of the world.
It really isn't the end of theworld.
Everything is manageable.
So even if you do have adiagnosis coming on that or
(26:11):
you're at risk even, or youthink that you do have Diabetes,
it is manageable and yourquality of life is Still.
Life is still worth living andyou can have a great life even
with a diagnosis of diabetes.
So that would be my first thingis know that it is manageable
and you can treat it.
Whether that's with medication,lifestyle, you can treat it.
(26:35):
There's amazing specialists outthere that can help you
Navigate that.
So I guess that would be thefirst thing.
But also, like, use your voice.
You know your body better thananybody else and you know what
you're doing also.
So just just I know it's hard,but just just use your voice.
If you cannot get them to run acertain test for you, ask them
(26:59):
to document why in your chart,because you are asking them to
run a test.
So just use your voice and askand then, if they say no, ask
them to document it in yourchart.
Smart, I love that, so thatwould be what I would recommend.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's a great piece of advice.
I actually just finishedlistening to a book called
American sickness and they talkabout the basically the our
American healthcare system, andone of the things that she
recommends over and over againis be the most difficult patient
possible, and that is askingfor things, asking them to
document as okay, if you're notgoing to run this vitamin D test
, why is that different thingslike that.
(27:38):
So I think that is a justphenomenal piece of advice, and
American sickness is a greatbook for any of you who are
curious to learn About howlovely our healthcare system is
yeah, make yourself memorable.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes , we remember you, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yeah, I promise.
Yes, you are worth fighting for, that is for sure, and
sometimes you're gonna be theonly one fighting for yourself.
Yeah, absolutely, I mean,chronic diseases are scary.
I mean they really are.
I mean I understand what you'resaying, that they don't have to
be, but it's any.
Really.
Any diagnosis that couldpotentially sort of alter the
medication that you're takingevery day or you know, kind of
(28:12):
your day-to-day activities, canbe a little frightening and I
feel like, especially in our dayand age, I don't know, I think
we make things out to be so muchscarier than they actually are
to.
But, like you're saying,everything is manageable.
We have such great medicationthese days and thankfully, there
are so many diet and lifestylefactors that you can change to
help manage what you'reundergoing or what you're going
through to, which is reallyencouraging.
(28:33):
Absolutely yeah, if someone,kathy, does want to reach out to
you or connect with you ormaybe they're in Alaska and I
just chit chat with you, whereis the best place for them to do
that Instagram and start there?
Well, we'll put your Instagramlink in the show notes, which is
Kathy and you Nia's 1982 K newNia's 19.
(28:53):
Okay, yes, okay, yeah, we'llput that in the show notes.
Well, I appreciate you, kathy,and I'm just so thankful that
you came on and we're vulnerableand shared your story, so thank
you.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Thank you yeah absolutely Well.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Thank you so much for tuning in today.
We also appreciate youlistening and taking the time
out of your day to listen tothis show.
So we will catch you on thenext episode.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
Thank you so much for listening to the plant-centered
and thriving podcast today.
If you found this episodeinspiring, please share it with
a friend or post it on socialmedia and tag me so I can
personally say thank you.
Until next time, keep thriving.
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