Michelle Sobel & Harry Gottlieb: Strengthening Democracy Through Joyful Collaboration

In this episode of The PlayFull Podcast, Kristine Michie talks with Michelle Sobel and Harry Gottlieb—co-founders of Unify America—about reducing polarization, rebuilding civic trust, and helping people collaborate across differences with curiosity and play. They explore how civic skills grow through structured dialogue, why diverse groups often generate stronger solutions than solitary experts, and how joy and imagination can shift communities away from adversarial habits. Through programs like the Unify Challenge and Civic Gym, Michelle and Harry share how campuses and communities can strengthen civic “muscles,” build intellectual humility, and reclaim a sense of agency in democracy.

Key Takeaways:

• Bringing people with varied life experiences into the same conversation leads to richer ideas and more durable outcomes built on shared understanding.
• A playful mindset softens conflict, increases openness, and supports meaningful connection even in areas of disagreement.
• Curiosity, listening, consensus-building, and problem-solving develop through repeated, structured conversations that build confidence and agency.
• Releasing adversarial mindsets reduces stereotypes, improves listening, and opens pathways for genuine cooperation.
• Tools like participation lotteries and civic assemblies teach and reveal how communities can make equitable, well-informed decisions together.
• Playful, pluralistic engagement models help communities shift from combative habits to collaborative imagination and shared purpose.

“[When you learn these skills] in a situation where you're talking to somebody you will probably never meet again … participants feel free to express themselves and learn how to listen to a new perspective, share their own perspective, and be able to disagree better and be able to find common ground." — Michelle Sobel

"If you are trying to solve problems, you don’t want people sitting around the table who’ve all got the same perspective." — Harry Gottlieb

"You really can’t overstate the importance of imagination, especially when you are trying to, as you were saying, imagine a better world." — Harry Gottlieb

Episode References:

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