July 20, 2025 • 55 mins
Robert Plank shares how podcasting transforms from mere content creation to a powerful relationship-building tool when approached with authenticity and purpose. His experience with over 1,400 episodes demonstrates that meaningful conversations create lasting connections that benefit everyone involved.
• Start where you are with the equipment you have, content quality matters more than production value
• Avoid stockpiling episodes as it creates "productive procrastination" that eventually becomes self-sabotage
• Focus on the 20/80 principle: spend 20% creating content and 80% marketing it
• Use conversations to build relationships with guests through regular follow-up and promotion
• Embrace imperfect action rather than seeking perfection before publishing
• Utilize AI tools like ChatGPT to repurpose podcast content across multiple platforms
• Build your podcast with long-term relationship cultivation in mind, not just content creation
• Challenge yourself regularly to avoid boredom and keep improving your podcast
• Consider outsourcing technical aspects so you can focus on the relationships and conversations
If you're interested in having a team handle the technical aspects of your podcasting, check out Robert's Done For You Podcasting service at dfypodcast.com or listen to his podcast at marketeroftheday.com.
Visit Pam Dwyer online and sign up on her email list to receive the latest updates and join her short stories that are published every Tuesday!
Go to PamDwyerSpeaker.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
There.
Welcome back to the Plus OneTheory podcast, where we believe
small, intentional steps canlead to powerful transformation.
I'm your host, pam Dwyer,speaker, author and founder of
the Plus One Theory.
And now Delay the Binge.
Each week, we explore realstories and real strategies that
(00:22):
help you turn past pain intopurpose, finish stronger than
you started and become someoneelse's plus one.
Today, I am thrilled tointroduce a guest who truly
understands the power ofconversation and connection.
Robert Plank is the founder ofDone For you Podcasting, where
(00:44):
he helps thought leaders growtheir business through one of
the most powerful tools we havetoday podcasting.
Robert makes it simple byremoving the tech overwhelm and
giving entrepreneurs the spaceto focus on what matters most
building trust, deepeningrelationships and turning
(01:04):
interviews into opportunities.
Whether you're looking toconnect with referral partners
or reach new prospects, robert'sapproach helps you turn
meaningful conversations intomeasurable impact.
You're going to love hearingfrom him.
Let's dive in, robert.
Welcome to the show and let'sstart by telling everyone a
(01:24):
little bit about yourself.
Like what makes Robert Planktick.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
That's a good question.
What makes Robert Plank tick?
Is solving problems, right?
That's what you and me are allabout, Ms Pam.
We're entrepreneurs and youfigure what's average, right?
What's mediocre?
What's playing it safe?
That's someone that says I don'twant to get in anyone's way, I
don't want to ruffle anyfeathers, I just want to show up
at 9 am and leave at5 pm and dojust enough to not get fired.
(01:51):
And what a miserable existenceright In this day and age, with
everything that's possible withyou can go to any country, talk
to any person, your infinitydevice in your pocket.
I mean, you used to have like acomputer that was the size of a
house, that didn't even fitinto this, and now we just have
all these opportunities in frontof us.
But we can't squander it, right, and time is short and we have
(02:13):
to push ourselves, and that's acombination of taking a risk,
get outside of our comfort zone,put in the hard work ethic, and
so I'm all about making thoseconnections and growing a
business and using podcasting todo all of it, because you start
a podcast and you candemonstrate your authority.
But the real exciting secretsauce is when you get other
(02:35):
people on, just like how you andme are doing right this instant
.
Right, you have someone on yourpodcast, you make some new
friends, you get some newcontent, you rank in the search
engines and you just kind ofeveryone evolves in a way.
Right, Like you make me thinkabout.
I have a bio that I use tointroduce myself, but then what
you just said there like I knowyou took it and you added to it
(02:57):
I'm thinking like man, I need tolike go and get the transcript
of that and add a couple ofsentences she said to my bio, or
even just that clip on its own.
I'm like I could pull just thatout and put it right there on
YouTube and that's anendorsement.
And so, just by us interactingand little bits, that rising
tide lifts all boats.
So that's what I'm all about.
Is that incremental progress,getting towards success by
(03:20):
talking to people, which can beawkward, but it's necessary, it
should be done.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yes, I agree wholeheartedly.
And the cool, cool thing aboutpodcasting is, if you're going
to interview someone, you goonline, you start checking them
out, right Because you want toknow what you're talking about,
what to ask and all that.
So not only have I been a gueston your show, but, man, is it
true that you have done over1,200 episodes?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
As of today, it is 1,000.
Well, it's 1,402 episodes total.
So I think, as far as thesubsection that's interviews, I
think 1,200 is accurate.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
That just blows my mind because I'm 30 episodes in,
I'm just starting out.
But man, what you've met somany people and shared your
story and, you know, heardtheirs, that's got to be way
amazing.
I would love to hear every I'mgoing to hear every episode.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
If it's out there, ok , better get started right,
because I'll be to hear everyepisode if it's out there.
Okay, better get started right,because I'll be adding to it so
you might fall behind.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
It's going to take a while, but from my own personal
experience, man, you were.
You really put me at easebecause you know I am fairly new
to this world and so doingbeing a guest on a podcast was a
little I was a little nervousabout it, but as soon as we
started talking, you know, I wasreally comfortable and so you
(04:50):
have a way of pulling that outin people.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
What do you think?
I didn't realize, but it wasn'talways that way, right, I used
to be socially awkward I guess Ican be sometimes, so it doesn't
come naturally and I used to bea little envious when you meet
someone and they just be realcharismatic and real people.
Wherever they go, they collectfriends and I'm just like man,
how do you do that?
(05:13):
Right, like, I feel many timeslike I'm in that middle phase of
like.
I feel like I'm smart enough toknow I'm awkward but not smart
enough to overcome it, and Ithink that there's something to
be said about the practice andthe repetitions and that just
this, this idea that when youget someone on a live podcast,
it's a good filter for people,right, like we, like you, like
(05:35):
you said, you can go on LinkedIn, you can go on YouTube, we can
even go on their Amazon and geta pretty good idea of what
they've accomplished, who theyare, and then you meet them in
person.
You can I don't know what it is,but you can somehow like
subconsciously tell from thebody language and the facial
expressions and how much they'relistening to you, or if they
(05:56):
interrupt you or if, like, a bigthing is like how much you
mirror each other right, like ifone person talks for five
minutes and the other personjust talks a little bit, and
it's like a struggle.
So there's a lot of a back andforth dance and it's just a good
way to just separate the.
There's people that just aren'tthere yet, but there's also
people that are kind of too meanand too bully, and so it's like
(06:17):
you just you meet people andyou figure them out and you
think that that can then lead tosometimes making friends or
making clients or referralpartners, and so it's just it's
a good way to overcome all thenoise, all the data, all the AI
stuff that's out there.
It's that person to personconnection, and so I feel like
just the getting smoother andnatural of it.
(06:40):
I think you never quite get toa hundred percent, but just by
being there and doing ithundreds of times, so that way
you can do it in your sleep, Ithink it just becomes more
natural, becomes a habit.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
It does and you really do.
I don't know how you do it, butwhat do you think helps people
open up so naturally to you?
I mean, is it because of theway?
Are you a natural at it, likeyou said?
Is it just the experience ofdoing it over and over and over?
I?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
think that I, as far as what I do, consciously, I try
to be attentive and I, you know, a big thing with like zooming
and podcasting is you look up atthe camera, not down at the
screen, and that took a lot ofpractice and I make sure to be
like maybe like 20% moreexaggerated, animated in what I
(07:30):
do, just because that's like astage presence thing.
Right, if you're normal thenyou look 20% lower.
Or if your normal facialexpression look like you're
frowning, right, they call thatresting bee face.
So you kind of have to be like20% more alive.
But then I'm also making aneffort to listen and then, as
far as that exaggeration, likekind of like nod and stuff like
(07:52):
that which I used to resist whenI was like a punk teenager, I'd
be like, oh, I'll listen tosomeone and I'll be like this
and they need to impress me, butlike, if you give that little
bit of feedback, then they cantell okay, I better wrap up this
point or I'll go more down thatpath.
But I think that I like to,especially these last few years,
be more of an encouragingperson, because there's not
(08:14):
enough out there and thatrelates to your mission, how,
just like a lot of us areinsecure and projecting and
wrapped up in our own stuff, andwhere does that really get you?
It seems like a life of misery.
And then you end up attractingand surrounding yourself with
other miserable people and thenyou're all just sort of stuck
together and what's the point ofthat?
(08:34):
And I think that it's better toembrace that awkwardness and be
a more positive person and bemore encouraging, because, like
you would say, like if we justcan encourage one person per day
, that's a lot more than a lotof the most people get.
So I'm just, I'm just like hey,you did that thing, I'm really
proud of you and I make adeliberate effort just to be
(08:56):
that, that positive, sort of MrRogers type of force.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah, and it is contagious.
I mean, it not only helps otherpeople to show kindness, but
there is literally a dopaminerush in your brain when you are
kind.
I read a statistic about thatthe other day.
Some doctor did a study and youget the same dopamine rush when
you receive it, but when yougive it as well.
(09:22):
So it's very good for ourbrains to be kind.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yes, imagine that.
And like my mind was blown whenI heard about the Ben Franklin
principle.
Have you heard of this one?
Speaker 1 (09:32):
No, what is it?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
It's that if I give you a dollar, pam, you'd think
that you would like me more, butit makes me like you more and
it's one of these weird likewhen you give to someone, it
makes me like you more.
And it's one of these weirdlike when, when you give to
someone, it makes you like themmore.
So and it busts out of thisthinking that you're talking
about right.
We think that it's very likezero sum, transactional exchange
(09:54):
of information, but it helpsothers and even, like we were
saying before the call this ideaof you you keep helping others
and you keep putting littlestuff out there and imagine the
ripple effect at the end of yourlifetime, what accumulates.
And there's lots of people,especially with podcasting and
content creation and yourauthoring, your speaking that
(10:15):
you'll never meet, but you justhelp them through the ripple
effect.
So it's all good, it's allimportant.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Man?
It so is, and you know where Ifirst learned that.
It's all important, man, it sois, and you know where I first
learned that, and I was going toask about your childhood too,
just real quick, just to seewhat built, what created you the
way you are today, because ourpast does.
It doesn't define us, but itdefinitely prepares us to do
what we end up doing, and so some growing up, I had a hand,
(10:42):
just a handful of people thatwere very kind to me, and it's
impacted me my entire life.
So me growing up, I had a hand,just a handful of people that
were very kind to me, and I it'simpacted me my entire life,
just those few seconds ofsomeone seeing me and being kind
, and it really impacted meforever.
So I mean, what about you?
I mean, how did you grow up?
Did you grow up with a bigfamily?
Did you have both parents?
(11:02):
Did you struggle?
What's what happened there?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Oh, now we're getting into the deep, scary stuff.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Well, I had a small.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah, I feel I feel like I'm at the psychologist.
But I had a sort of smallishfamily.
You know, both parents had asister, but I was just, I was
surrounded with, with a lot ofjerks, like.
I grew up in this town calledTracy, california, and basically
there's the Bay Area ofCalifornia right, there's the
coast, there's San Francisco andall that, and then that gets
too crowded and what do they do?
They build some other towns inthe east or they build those up,
(11:39):
and so we ended up with thistown exploded from 20,000 to
70,000.
I think it's like 100,000 now.
But when I was in high school,this town filled with everyone's
kids' parents were from the BayArea, where everyone's mean,
but they were extra mean becausethey couldn't really afford to
stay, and then they were meantimes three because they were
(11:59):
commuting an hour or two, and soit kind of raised all these
just mean kids and people thatdidn't fit in but were insecure
and were overcorrecting.
And so it kind of raised allthese just kind of just mean
kids and people that didn't fitin but were insecure and were
overcorrecting, and that's just,I guess.
Maybe my excuses, but it wasjust a lot of.
I grew up around a lot of liars.
I mean I guess I came out okay,but I just there's a lot of
(12:19):
just kind of mean friends, or ifyou had friends, they were only
friends with you because theywanted something.
And then they got to the pointand they cut you loose and my
dad was mean, my sister was mean, my mom was pretty nice but,
and then I joined Boy Scouts andthen it was like a lot of the
dads were similar, like they'dsay A and then they'd do B right
(12:42):
, and they'd say, hey, youshould do A, and then they'd do
B right, and they'd say, hey,you should do A and then they
would do B.
So there was a lot of just likelip service, but I think.
But then and so there was like80, 90% bad, but then there was
a couple of little good mentorsand you hope that that sticks
out because the human cavemanbrain is designed to pay more
(13:05):
attention to danger, because itwants to keep you out of danger
and ignore those little goodthings.
So it's up to us to sort offlip it.
And I feel like the sixth gradewas peak childhood for me.
It was like so many differentthings happened.
It was like five years in one Ihad a really good teacher.
He was just real charismaticand really nice and he told
different stories and he wasn'tone of these that, like you know
(13:28):
, when someone, some old personor some adult, they kind of go
on all these long stories, buthe told like just the right ones
and they some of them stillstick with me every day.
Like he told about this idea oflike you don't have to go to
college if that's not your path,and it was some some idea of
like you go and you work somejob and you come home sweaty and
you take a shower and you'relike you're ready to start your
(13:51):
evening.
And I don't even remember halfof it, but it stuck with me.
Or like there was a story oflike some guy was stuck at the
top of some smokestack in oursmall town like 100 years before
.
So he just he made it fun,right, and he mixed things up
and it wasn't just teaching outof the textbook and we would do
like group projects or and Ithink what out of all the stuff
(14:12):
that really kind of still stickswith me is we would do the
writing process.
I know you're an author and thewriting process can be fun.
And he put out this calendarand he'd say, well, on monday
you do your brainstorm and youroutline, on tuesday you do your
rough draft, on wednesday you doyour peer review, on thursday
you do your like final editingand polish, and on friday you do
(14:34):
your cover.
And it was only, like you know,one slice out of the the day.
It was like you know, thirdperiod or something like that,
but that was so much.
It was this good, it was thiscombination of fun, structure,
creativity, stress, and then bythe time you get to the end
result, then you've created andwe ended up with these.
(14:55):
I'm sure my mom has themsomewhere.
It's these little like tinybooks, but they're like kind of
hardcover and they're hand-drawnand they're written in and
they've been polished andrevised because they've gone
through all these differentsteps and it just it opened the
mind of what was possible if youhave like a little bit of a
structure and you make sure tolike fulfill those tasks.
(15:16):
And it was just, it was so muchfun, right, it was the good old
days.
So there you go.
As far as the mentoredness thatsticks, that, that sticks out,
as far as the, the goodcombination of fun, storytelling
and just like as projectmanagement.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Right and you know it does speak a lot about the way
you are now because you know you, you figured out what you
didn't like and you figured outwhat you liked and you ran with
that.
I also noticed you reallyhelped me feel seen when you
were interviewing me, you know.
Do you think that podcasts havebecome a vehicle for that, you
(15:58):
know, for people to feelempowered and maybe in a way
they weren't expecting?
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, I guess.
So you always jump in and youthink it'll go one way and it
goes something else, becausethere's another brain involved.
And I think that there was arecent aha, maybe about six
months ago, when I was stilltrying to figure out AI, because
we all are right, we're tryingto figure out AI and chat, gpt,
and well, I know the promisethat I can just put out all this
(16:26):
content and get all thistraffic, but then when I do it,
it puts out all this just notvery good stuff.
And so someone said this.
They said well, what you shoulddo is go on a podcast and just
have a conversation and feed itthrough chat, gpt and have a
breakdown like the questions andanswers, and you can kind of
see what you set the table with.
(16:47):
And then take that and go andlook on other podcasts, like
kind of extract some keywords,do some searches, go on youtube,
find some other similar showsand see what the questions and
answers are there and then lookat the answers and see like if
you could come up with betteranswers.
And that got the gears turning.
That got me thinking like, hey,that's kind of a way to like
(17:07):
continuously get better, rightand up your game and say, okay,
well, we'll have thisconversation with Robert and Pam
and we'll talk about all thesethings and we'll go in
unexpected places and then we'lljust kind of like, compare to
what we did previously, compareto what's out there, and I think
that that's more of what aishould be right.
Instead of things being likecompletely hands-off, automated,
(17:30):
you use it as this tool to say,well, what have I done, what
have I said and how can I getthat not depersonalized or ai
enhanced, but like, more dialedin right, more of like like.
There's that whole idea of ifyou have some argument and one
of you is like standing on thestaircase and then the
(17:50):
argument's over and then youwalk up the stairs you think, oh
, I should have said just thatexact thing.
And when you have a podcastyou'll have moments like that.
But hey, you can save that inyour back pocket for the next
speaking gig or blog posts or,even better, for the next
podcast that you're on.
So there's a lot of fun thereof your ability to read.
(18:11):
I don't know if redo is a goodway of saying it, but you can
have these conversations andthen have better ones as you go
or go in unexpected places andget your messaging figured out,
so it can be a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Well, and I think the key word that you that if
people would look at AI as justa tool, right, instead of
wanting it to do it all for them, because I mean that's, we're
human and we're all guilty ofutilizing tools Hoping that it's
going to fix everything, right,but it doesn't.
It's just a tool that's goingto give you the space to be
(18:52):
better, right, and so I don't.
It's just like with bariatricsurgery or other weight loss
tools, those injections thatpeople are taking, the GLP-1s.
You know they think that that'sthe fix-all, and it's not.
It's just a tool, right, thatgives you the time to fix what's
really broken while you're inthat pickle in the first place.
And so I think AI is in thesame boat.
(19:16):
It's definitely a great tooland I utilize it for you know a
lot of things, but I don't letit do my work, I don't let it
create for me.
You know, I definitely have tokeep on top of that.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
So yeah, and I mean you and I, I think both use
podcasting for a little bitselfish reasons, right, like
there's, like you have, you have, I know I'm your first guest,
right, or?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
have you had others?
Okay, no, I've had others, butnone that were as well as
knowledgeable as you inpodcasting, so I've challenged
myself with that.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
But I'm sure you've learned you always pick up
tidbits, no matter who it is.
And one guy I talked to earlyon about AI, I'm like, well,
like, how would you explain it?
How do I get my head about it?
And he said, well, think of itlike a pocket calculator, but
for language.
And it's like you know youdon't want to depend on the.
You still want to know how tosay two plus two, but if you're
(20:12):
calculating the square root of500, maybe you should dial that
in.
And so it's like you get thoselittle tidbits from doing
podcasting.
And then you think about the.
I don't know that much aboutweight loss, but like there's
all, there's all these new, likecrazy drugs out there, right?
And then the little things thatyou hear is you're like, well,
long-term it might cause, like,pancreas damage.
(20:35):
Or they say, like these the bigthing you hear is that, well,
they're designed to be taken forlife.
Like, you take it, you lose theweight.
You get off it, you gain theweight back.
And it's like there's always atradeoff, right, there's never
like a magic medicine of like,hey, this solves it.
There's like there's alwayssome price to be paid.
So it's like when you look atthe tradeoff, it's like wouldn't
it be more healthy, sustainable, just a better approach to just
(20:59):
like kind of change some habits, right?
Speaker 1 (21:05):
And just you know, try to do it without the
shortcut.
Yeah, definitely, and it's likeany medication, right?
If you read all the sideeffects, you're like I'm not
taking this pill.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
It's going to make things worse.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
But sometimes people have to choose the side effects
over the long-term effect ofwhat's happening with them.
Like cholesterol, highcholesterol.
There's a lot of side effectson that.
My husband takes it and he'slike I'm not taking this.
I said, yeah, it's either thatthose symptoms, those side
effects, or you have a stroke.
I don't know, you pick, youpick one.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
So it's a balancing act.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
It is a balancing act .
If we could if I could figureout balance, I'd be the happiest
human being on the earth.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
But I worry about that term, balance right Because
it's like you think balancedoes that mean like one foot in,
one foot out?
Does that mean that I'm kind ofputting half on my business and
half in my personal life?
I kind of worry about that too.
I feel like it is.
I love having the hyper focus.
I love having a little bit ofthe controlled chaos for
(22:08):
momentum right, like just enoughhealthy stress, just enough of
the deadlines and the urgency toget things done.
So that idea of balance, I'malways concerned about that term
personally.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Well, let me tell you , let me give you a little
helpful tidbit, and this isstraight from my grandmother,
bless her heart.
Let me tell you, let me giveyou a little helpful tidbit, and
this is straight from mygrandmother, bless her heart.
But I used to talk to her aboutbalancing and her philosophy
was um, it was like cooking,right.
So, and that's where I mean,she's the one that you know,
showed me what all about theplus one.
You know doing your best, plusone more mediocrity, forget
(22:41):
about it.
But she said, with cooking, youwant to give it your all with
preparing the meal, but it's notthe meal.
The process is not the meal.
The meal is sitting at a tablewith your family enjoying them.
But you had to do all this plusone work in preparing it,
planning it, you know, gettingit ready, that's the work, but
(23:02):
the result the result is is thebalance.
So I don't know, I just alwayslook at it like that and no one
ever appreciates it.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Right, it's like you think of there's how many movies
have been made throughout humanhistory, like how many
thousands and every single movieit took.
How many months, years,millions of dollars, hundreds,
thousands of people.
And here you and I are like allright, well, this 90 minutes,
this better be good.
And it's like that.
That took someone's lifesavings.
This movie might havebankrupted some company.
(23:35):
It was so expensive.
And here we are just looking atthe end result and saying like,
oh well, that movie could havebeen better.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, yeah, that's.
That's the hard part,especially in the creative world
.
Because, you know, even evenlike my book from the Piney
Woods, it's a memoir Noteverybody reads those, right,
it's not everybody's bag.
So I just had to accept thatpeople don't read that sort of
book.
It's not anything against mycraft or my writing or the story
(24:03):
, it's just that that's nottheir thing.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, but the beauty of the internet is all the
obscure media, right?
Or maybe I don't know ifobscure is the right word, but
there's all these, just like.
Sometimes there's someyoutubers they follow with like
30 subscribers, with like 100subscribers, or they're not the
mainstream.
And there was this one youtuberwhere he put out 100 videos and
(24:27):
they were all good, of justfilming this intersection.
He's he was in santa monica,california, and he there was
just the intersection not builtvery well and all these like
cars coming in five differentways and they'd almost get in
accidents and he'd providecommentary and I watched all
these videos and he only got hebarely got 100 views per video.
But I was one of them and then afew years ago I was in los
(24:48):
angeles, like I took the journeyto like stand in this
intersection just because itwasn't world famous but it was
important to me and that'sthat's kind of interesting to
think about.
Right Is it doesn't have to bethe most mass market sort of
stuff.
Like one of my favorite showsgrowing up was mystery science
theater 3000, right, you knowthat where they make fun of the
(25:08):
bad movies and it's like youturn a bad into a good and you
have your own unique personalpreferences.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yes, exactly, and that's how you build your tribe
or your community, and that'swhat I've really been focusing
on is just trying to build acommunity of people that get
what I'm saying and can growfrom it and thrive from it.
But the key to remember and ifanybody's listening to this is
that let Robert know how muchyou enjoyed an episode.
(25:38):
You know, just reach out andjust say, hey, man, that really
touched my heart and I justthank you for that, because I'm
still not getting, you know,hardly any feedback on anything
that I do.
And that's what fuels us right,that's what keeps us going and
keeps us creating, is thefeedback.
Are we making a difference?
(25:59):
Are we doing this right?
And so I just hope people reachout and let you know.
You know how much your work isaffecting them, impacting them.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Yes, it's very rare and it's easy to do.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah, it's just takes seconds, you know, just like
the kindness thing.
But, um, which brings me to aquestion I really wanted to ask
you is like what are some of thebiggest misconceptions you see
people having when they launch apodcast?
You know, when they first start, because they're learning,
they're wearing many.
When they first start becausethey're learning, they're
wearing many hats, of course,because usually it's just one
(26:36):
person trying to do it right.
They don't have a team ofpeople.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yes, and I think that the big one is the equipment
right.
People, they overthink it andyou start where you're at and
you I mean you start with yourphone right Start filming in
your car.
The content matters more thanthe production quality, which
will evolve over time anyway.
So if you buy all thesedifferent microphones, all these
(27:00):
different lights, all thesedifferent backgrounds, you're
going to just distract yourselfand give yourself a big old
to-do list and then you'll bejust spending all these weeks
seeking perfection and trying tostart it out right.
But I think you should startwhere you are and I have a lot
of fun going back and anyonethat you follow who is famous
now.
You go back and look at theearly Mel Robbins or Tim Ferriss
(27:23):
or Gary Vaynerchuk, anyone.
You go back 15 years ago, towhen YouTube started.
You look at the earliest videosthey put out and they're so
young and they have a bad putout and they're so young and
they have a bad haircut andthey're so awkward and the
lighting's bad and that's wherethey started at.
And if they try to start wherethey're at now, back then, then
they would have seen like, maybelike an imposter, or they would
(27:44):
have done 52 takes withoutdoing one.
So I think that's the biggestis you have to just start where
you're at.
And I am jealous about thesepeople that have the in-person
podcast studios.
Like, don't they look so slickwith like the?
They've got like neon signs onthe walls and, yeah, they got
the headphones or they got thecouches or they have like the,
the kind of the, the microphoneshanging down in front of the
(28:07):
couches and it looks like a lotof fun.
And I do need to get on anin-person podcast one of these
days.
But it's just a prospectingthing, right, you figure out who
will take you and then whereyou'll be and you'll show up.
But I think that you don't haveto start there and it's even.
It's just it's less ways to gowrong.
Like, I've even recordedinterviews where I had the
(28:29):
person in person, but I justwent in the other room because I
was like, well, we're pickingeach other up or it's echoey, or
we're going to have to share amic and that's awkward.
So it's like the Zoom world welive in, or Riverside, where
there's side-by-sideconversation.
It's good enough to get thecontent out there that you want
and you don't need to overthinkit.
You don't need to have thefancy podcast studio or the
(28:50):
fancy mic and you don't need topile up a lot of episodes.
I've seen that too, of likejust kind of recording a bunch
of stuff and filling up a folderand saying, okay, well, I'll
record five, I'll record 25,I'll record 50.
And then you're focused on therecording but not on the putting
it out and the marketing, and Ireally think that you should be
(29:10):
spending 20% creating and 80%marketing, right?
You should be looking every dayinto who do I want to reach?
Where am I going to post at?
What new channel am I going toput it out right?
Am I going to send an emailblast?
Do a LinkedIn post?
Put out a YouTube short?
There's so many things to putout there.
And that's I mean.
(29:31):
That's the first step is justto post more frequently.
And so when you pile up 20, 30,50 episodes and then you feel
good at first because you'relike, hey, I'm making progress,
but then it becomes thatproductive procrastination and
then, a few months later, thenit morphs into self-sabotage,
because you look at this folderfull of stuff and you're like
there's this mix of like well,this stuff's out of date now.
(29:53):
Now it's a year old.
And then I now I don't evenwant to follow up with these
guests because they'll hate me,because they'll be like what?
The episode isn't out yet.
So you're just tying yourselfin knots and the better way is
to just proceed with imperfectaction right, they call it a
ready fire aim and put out anepisode or two.
(30:13):
And every podcast platform isreally good about migrating.
So I really recommendBuzzsprout.
But if you ever say later like,oh well, I want to move to
Spotify for podcasts or I wantto move to Libsyn or one of
these other and they're allnamed so weird.
But you can pick up and you cantransfer all your podcasts to
some other platform if youreally want to.
(30:35):
But what's really important isyou get a podcast, get it
started, get established onthese social media platforms and
start posting, because if youdo want to have guests of any
kind, they're going to do that.
30 seconds of research on you,right?
And if they see that your lastpost was three years ago, or if
they see that you only have 10followers, well then they'll
(30:56):
hesitate and you have to startsomewhere.
And you have to start bycreating the episodes, putting
it out there and then iteratingand promoting the old stuff and
contacting the old guests.
So don't do the buildup right.
You say you're all aboutdelaying the binge.
Well, don't delay the binge ofoh, I've got to put 20 podcasts
out there.
(31:16):
Instead, make this habit ofsaying, well, I'll put out, and
to say I'll put out one thisweek or every week.
It's too scary, too daunting.
But you say I'll put out fourthis month.
Right, and so it's.
And so you don't have to make aforever commitment.
Just say like, hey, this coming30 days, 90 days, I'll put out
(31:38):
X amount and then I'll reassessand I'll see where I'm at.
And so it's like you.
Just, you have to put it outthere, you have to take some
action, you have to publish.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Well, and I love that , because all the research of
course I did my due diligenceand I was studying other
podcasters and trying to figureout what equipment to get.
Did I really need to invest alot?
And I did find that my phone,just like you said, was really
and I got this little lapel micthat connects with the phone, so
it gave me pretty good soundand so I started just doing
podcasts like that, just on awalk or whenever I was out,
(32:16):
because I have another real jobthat pays the mortgage and puts
food on the table.
So, you know, then I didn't,and then they kept telling
everyone was saying, get a stackthose episodes so that you have
a whole stack of them.
But what I found is like, afterthis episode, you know, I'm
excited about what we talkedabout and so I don't want to
(32:37):
lose that momentum, so Iimmediately start editing or
doing whatever I need to do and,by the way, I do use Buzzsprout
.
It's amazing.
They have an AI feature on there.
I paid a little extra, but it'sso worth it.
It saves me a lot of time.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Put your Buzzsprout affiliate link in the comments
right.
Officially sponsored byBuzzsprout.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, yeah, I can definitely do that and they are
wonderful.
They make it very easy for theperson like me that doesn't know
a whole lot of technical stuffabout editing and all the
important things that need to bedone as far as publishing it.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Yes, and that's important to separate the
creativity from thetechnicalities, like sure you
should.
I guess you should have controlover what you want to write and
be able to choose, like thetitles and the graphics and
things like that.
But there's definitely a dangerin falling into the rabbit hole
of saying, well, I don't evenhave time to podcast because I'm
(33:37):
editing all these podcasts andthat's why the stack can be
scary, right, because now youhave a stack.
A stack sounds good at first,but then does anyone like a
stack of papers?
And so if you have a stack ofall these episodes, you have to
edit and schedule and put outthere.
And I think what and you and Ithink there's something
interesting as far as likefiguring out your message in
(33:59):
marketing is is thinking aboutwhat are people's ahas, right,
what are their turning points.
And I knew a guy a bunch ofyears ago and he was kind of, he
was really smart, but he waskind of shy.
So I related to him Because onthe inside I am too and then he
embraced podcasting and what gothim to do it was he said
(34:21):
imagine if you had 100 peoplerooting for you and working for
you and promoting you.
Well, you can by having 100guests on your podcast, right,
it's like the John Rockefellersays, instead of me, john
Rockefeller says, instead of medoing a hundred percent, I'd
rather have a hundred peopledoing 1%.
And so and I was like, hey, soit's about the people, right,
(34:42):
it's not just about the content.
So if you think, if you hadthat stack of episodes that
you've been sitting on, versusif you say, after a year you had
a hundred podcast guests andthat's all these opportunities
to follow up and to remind themto post, and to go and boost up
their social media and liketheir stuff or to post about
(35:03):
them, even though the episodewas three, six months ago, post
about them again and tag themagain and post a reel again.
And so by stacking too much,you're losing out on all the
follow-up time of building therelationship and you could end
up with a funnel or a path ofsomeone who's been on your
podcast and there's, like I meanwith me, there's some of these
(35:26):
people with like five, 10 yearsof history where you can go back
and see like all the times I'vetweeted or X them or whatever
they call it these days and anyplatform there's.
Just like all this follow up.
I can go and search my emailand there's all this kind of
reminding them of like, hey,here's this link, do you want to
come back on the show?
And so there's just all thesedeep in relationships where you
(35:49):
can't build a relationshipinstantly.
Right?
Warren Buffett says you can'tget nine ladies pregnant in one
month.
Right?
If you're baking a cake, likeyour grandma was, and you're
like I only have five minutes tofinish baking this cake, you
can't just crank up the heat,right?
Some of these things take time,and so you need to have your
(36:11):
delays and give these people thegift of missing you and for
them to see that you're in itfor the long haul and that
you've been promoting them everycouple of weeks for the last
six months or a year, not justbarfing a bunch of stuff out
there in the podcast world.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
I love that barfing it out, man.
My granny must be on this callbecause I have another.
She has always said it remindsme of this.
She said the road to hell ispaved with good intentions,
pamela.
Yes, a hundred percent, and soyour intention is to, you know,
build up all these episodes orjust do all this stuff, and
(36:48):
pretty soon you're going to beburned out.
Have you ever felt that wayLike, uh, since you've done so
many, how long has a 1200episode, or 1400 episodes?
How long have you been doingthis?
How long does it take to dothat many?
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Uh, it has it's taken 13 years.
I started it it and I was 28and I was just recording one
episode per week and I had allthese hangups.
I told myself a podcast had tobe a whole hour long.
(37:23):
It didn't.
20 minutes is better and Iwould fit my best stuff in there
and I would have a wholeepisode about copywriting and a
whole episode about WordPressand a whole episode about
programming and I would start torun out of content and after
even like 20 episodes I was likehow can I keep going?
(37:44):
How is this sustainable?
How will I keep going?
And then I found someone who Ihonestly I didn't really like.
His name's Joel Calm.
I really don't like him as aperson, like at all, but
sometimes I see some of the coolstuff he does and he put out a
podcast like years ago and helike ended his podcast.
I thought, hey, that's whatI'll do, I'll get to.
I'll say the podcast is endingat 100 episodes and every
(38:07):
episode I'll announce that thepodcast is ending and people
will be like, oh my gosh, butdon't worry, it ends at podcast
number 100.
And so that was my goal and bythe time I got to like 50 solo
episodes, I was really runningout of content.
And then, here and there I wouldsprinkle in maybe like one
every 10 episodes I would have aguest.
(38:27):
And so what I would do is, if Imet someone at a conference or
something and we would exchangebusiness cards usually to barely
see each other ever again I'dfollow up.
And what do you do if you meetsomeone and you exchange
business cards and you follow up?
Oh well, is it?
I'll buy your stuff, you'll buymy stuff.
But that's too much of a gap toleap over.
So it turned into let's get ona Skype back then, and now
(38:50):
Skype's even gone.
But that's how we meet.
Yeah, and they're out ofbusiness now, just like ICQ and
the rest, right, even thoughMySpace and AOL are still online
somehow.
But anyway, we'd go on Skype,we'd have this conversation and
there was just some magic there,right, and you could talk the
other person up and so, just forfun, the other person up, and
(39:16):
so, just for fun, I took, Ithink just like six of those
interviews and I put them intobook format and it was just,
we've all been there where youdiscover Amazon and Kindle and
you're like, okay, let me justput out a book just for fun.
And I put out and this wasbefore ChatGPT could clean stuff
up, so it was literally atranscript.
It was Robert colon says this,and Ryan Healy colon said that
(39:36):
it was literally a book of justa transcript.
And then that outsold my otherbooks that I spent a lot more
time on and I got like reallygood feedback about people
saying like, hey, I picked thisup and I couldn't put it down.
(40:17):
No-transcript, choose a slot inmy calendar and put in your bio
and answer these questions andthen, boom, now they're on your
calendar and then all that's onyou is you have to make sure to
show up.
But you think, well, like adoctor or a lawyer or a
therapist, like they have toshow up for their appointments,
(40:39):
so you take that seriously, youshow up and you have a
conversation like this and thenyou follow up.
And so once you do that, thenyou can have unlimited content,
right, because you're not alwaysstruggling for the next thing
to say.
Then you can have unlimitedcontent, right, because you're
not always struggling for thenext thing to say.
And then I think, as the host Imean I guess there's like a yin
and the yang, right, as thehost, you have it pretty easy,
(41:00):
because if you wanted to, youcould just ask the same five or
six questions.
But if you're a good podcasthost, like you are, then you
listen closely and you pick upthe thread and you're just
meeting interesting people, andso that's how, then.
And so probably maybe every liketwo or three hundred episodes
or episodes, which is probablylike maybe once a year, I would
(41:22):
doubt myself, I would be aboutto give up and I would have to
find some new way of adding thedifficulty, the challenge to it,
and I think I would get boredbecause it would get become too
much of the routine of addingthe difficulty, the challenge to
it, and I think I would getbored because it would become
too much of the routine, itwould become too easy and I
would think, okay, it's easy,now I need to go find something
harder.
And that's your opportunity toup your podcast game.
(41:44):
That's when it's time to thenget the better lights or the
better microphone or to maybepursue some better guests, or
you get on other shows.
Or there was finally, at onepoint the technology existed
where video became morereasonable to store and record
and do so.
I switched from audio only tovideo and then that opened up
(42:07):
posting on YouTube for me, onYouTube for me, and then, you
know, then switch from Zoom toRiverside and then sometimes
focus more on the SEO and comingup with better titles and
focusing on the follow-up andfocusing on the chat, gpt and
like turning a podcast into likea LinkedIn post and an
infographic.
And so I think that if youstart to get so, I guess one
(42:31):
obstacle is being deliberate,being diligent, and I think that
might be like a mindfulnessthing of just like properly
preparing yourself and takingthings seriously, knowing your
purpose, knowing what thepodcast will lead to.
So that way you start theexcitement.
But then, in order to sustainthe excitement, you do need to
see some results, and that canbe like your mission of helping
(42:52):
others, or, if that turns intolike clients way you keep all of
that excitement working, keepall of that excitement working
(43:30):
Well.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
you just described the plus one theory right there.
You just keep improving youknow, because if you just stay
stuck, you'll you'll getuninspired, right You'll you'll
get bored, like you said.
And if that does happen I mean,has that I'm sure that's
happened with you where yourealize, okay, I need to up my
game because I'm starting to befeel stuck or bored, and so you,
(43:56):
you, you reignite your momentumby by adding new challenges.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Correct, correct.
All the time you take adifferent route when you're
driving to your destination.
If things are still in yourrelationship, you go on a hot
date, like, of course there'salways.
You have awareness of when.
When it's just, it's tooroutine.
You have to change things up.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Exactly, and we talked about some of the tools.
Are there any other tools thatyou would recommend people look
into?
I mean, what are your favorites?
Speaker 2 (44:28):
I know Buzzsprout's one Like especially for if I
need to jump into thetranscripts and I need to do
some little editing and pull upthe clips.
And then I've also had fun withOpus, which is just like just
(44:53):
for clips and you can upload thepodcast.
You can upload any podcast, youcan even steal a podcast.
You upload your own and then itgives you the reels, the shorts
and, like ChatGBT is anall-in-one tool, upload your own
and then it gives you the, thereels, the shorts and I've had,
and like g chat, gbt is a, youknow, all-in-one tool.
I pay the 200 a month versionbecause I use it so much and
that's just kind of like you canuse that for anything, right.
You and especially, you uploadthe transcript of your podcast
(45:17):
and you can just turn it intoyou.
You say, well, can, can youcreate a LinkedIn post for me?
Can you create a LinkedInrecommendation for me?
That's a fun one where, like, alot of people don't know that
on your LinkedIn page there'slike your resume and the way you
can post, but people can leavereviews about you and they're
(45:38):
called recommendations and soand a lot of them are real
shallow, right, because that'show it is, but you, as a
podcaster, have an opportunityto leave a really thoughtful
recommendation and you can kindof cheat because you use ChatGPT
, but you sort of didn't cheatbecause their original content
came from your conversation,right?
So you and me, pam, we've beentalking for almost an hour and
(46:02):
we've said all kinds of amazingpersonal things to each other
and you feed that into ChatGBTand you say give me a really
good LinkedIn recommendation forRobert, following all the best
practices you know and you didput in the work.
You just didn't put in thatlast bit of work of like writing
it, but you can refine it andthen you end up with the end
result is a way more thoughtfullinkedin recommendation than
(46:24):
others.
So chat gbt is a really funall-in-one tool for for all
those sorts of things.
Right, you use chat gbt tofollow up with your guests and,
uh, and you know, refine yourthe titles of your podcast.
You go back and forth likeanything else.
So it's like there's, there'snot, I don't, and then and in
canva is huge too right, as faras it's a like an, online.
(46:46):
I love canva big time yeah, anda lot of people don't even know
how you can just kind of bustsomething out right, all the,
all these youtube thumbnailswhere the person's going like
like that or something.
You can just, you know, uh,take a picture yourself doing
that, slap on some graphics, andthen also, and you combine
(47:06):
these things together, youcombine these, say, with like
ChatGPT, right, and you can makeyour thumbnail graphic.
And if you're not sure about it, you take a screenshot of it.
I think on Windows it's likeWindows key shift S and you draw
a box and you paste it right inChatGPT.
And you say a box and you pasteit right in chat GPT and you
say how would you change thisthumbnail?
It gives you suggestions and youswitch back to Canva and you
(47:28):
say, oh, it told me to have agreen background instead of a
blue one.
Well, I'll follow itssuggestion.
And then the end result is youdon't want to get too techie,
right At some point.
You do want to like, delegateand outsource the stuff.
That's monotonous and timeconsuming.
But for the little quick fixes,chat GPT is great to have a
(47:49):
little buddy to, to write, torefine, to look at how things
came out.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
Yeah, it's like having a college professor in
your room because I will takelike a pitch on something I'm
doing, like a pitch on somethingI'm doing.
I'll write up a pitch and thenI'll stick it into chat GPT and
ask say, what do you think aboutthis pitch?
Where can I improve it?
And they're like Pam, youreally need to have a beginning,
a middle and an end of yourstory format, blah, blah, blah,
(48:13):
blah.
But you know, I'm like oh, Ididn't know that.
So then it helps me structureit so much better so that the
reader, you know it's moreeffective for the reader.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
Yeah, and I have that visual lately when I do it too.
It's like the asymptotes, likethe Zeno's paradox of like you
shoot an arrow and does itreally hit the target?
Well, no, it gets halfway, getshalfway, it gets closer and
closer.
And so like, yeah, there's somany like marketing tasks, of
like I use it for landing pagesand sales letters a lot.
(48:45):
Right, I'll be like, well, Iwant to sell this service or
this product and I've got thisYouTube video where I talk about
sort of what it mostly shouldbe.
So write me the sales letter.
Well, I don't like that.
We'll add this and that to theoffer, change the headline.
You don't have it, just writeit for you, sight unseen.
You tell it what to change, youhave it, give suggestions and
(49:06):
you kind of navigate and you getcloser and closer to what it
should be.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Yeah, and there's all kinds of details that are
critical, even like with YouTubeon Buzzsprout, it will
automatically upload it yourpodcast to YouTube.
But I've never done videobefore because I just didn't
have the equipment before and soit was just uploading my audio.
But I found out that YouTubeignores those.
(49:31):
They don't like it, they wantvideo and they want awesome
thumbnails.
So in order to rank you well,you've got to have both the
audio and video for YouTube, butthat's not necessarily true for
other platforms you know, yeah,and there's always just so much
to navigate.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
There's all these platforms.
They all do it differently andthey all have all these little
things to fill in, right?
Even like with YouTube, it'slike oh, I forgot the.
I have to upload the subtitles.
Oh, I forgot that there's thetags.
Oh, I forgot that my channelitself has keywords.
Oh, maybe I should go andrefine the title of my channel.
There's always just otherthings to set and ChatGBT is
(50:09):
great about.
Like if I just say, well, whatshould I fill on this field
based on here's my podcasttranscript what should the title
, what should the tags, whatshould the thumbnail be?
If I should leave a commentunder my own video, just like,
what should I say?
It just helps you fill in theempty boxes.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
Well, and that's why, Robert, a lot of people like me
look for people like you fordone for you podcasting.
Someone that is an expert andthat knows what the heck they're
doing.
Yeah, and someone.
If you don't want to half-assyour podcast, then you hire
someone like Robert that knowshow to do all these things and
has figured it all out for you.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Yeah, whole-ass your podcast, don't half-ass it.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
Yeah, whole-ass.
Hey, there's your new sloganWhole-ass, your podcast with
Robert Plank.
I like it.
And you're done for you withpodcasting.
Yeah, and you're done for youwith podcasting, yeah.
Well, with that I am going tohave to end our conversation,
because you know people getbored when they're too long.
Of course that's what youtaught me you taught me on this
episode that a 20-minute episodeis much better than an
(51:15):
hour-long one.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:17):
But it's also your rules.
So it's your show, you do whatyou want.
Yeah, your rules.
So it's your show, you do whatyou want.
And then you also can meetpeople where they're at, because
we've been saying many times inthis discussion that there are
different types of people andthere are different types of
platforms.
Right, there's Instagram,there's TikToks, and you figure,
like the personality type thatgoes and scrolls, tiktok is
(51:39):
probably different than like aFacebook or LinkedIn person, and
so I have this done for you.
Podcasting service it'sdfypodcastcom, and the vision,
the dream, is that you just giveus your episodes, right, you
give us that stack and we clearthe stack for you.
And so that way, when you say,hey, I'm Pam and I just had this
amazing conversation withRobert, here's the video my team
(52:01):
goes and makes that thumbnail,makes the title, makes the show
notes, makes the reels, so thatway you can post to TikTok and
to LinkedIn.
We take the best quotes thatyou said and we use Canva and we
put up a picture of you or yourguest and put the quote right
on there.
And we've all seen those socialposts where usually it's a
(52:24):
motivational quote.
Right, there'll be like a MelRobbins or a Thomas Jefferson.
But hey, what if there was aquote that was said by you or
said by your guests and we makethose two and post those to
Instagram.
And so that way I found that,at least for me and everyone
I've met that we all, like thesuccessful business, people use
social media, but our brainsonly really like one or two, and
(52:46):
I think that there's only somuch time in the day and I think
there might be like an age,demographic plus a personality
thing.
A lot of us are well, I justlike YouTube, I just like
LinkedIn, and you should beeverywhere.
You should at least have likeaccounts on some platforms, you
should at least be postingsometimes.
And so this is your chance tojust focus on one or two of the
social platforms you like, butthen the Facebook and the X also
(53:09):
gets posted to.
Or if there's some new platformlike threads, you can just say,
hey, can I post to threads aswell?
And so that way you just havethis kind of continuous machine
of all these different thingsposting, yeah, and it posts
everywhere, and you kind offocus your energy and your time
where it should be right On the20% of the relationship building
(53:31):
and the big picture and thegrowing your business and
working on your guests and yourpeople and helping them out with
their mission.
And then me and my team does allthat extra busy work of making
sure that that Canva graphic andthe text is aligned here
instead of being aligned there.
So we do all that timeconsuming busy work and you do
(53:51):
the fun, important stuff ofhaving these podcasting
conversations.
That way you don't burn out,that way you can find the new
ways to challenge yourself andyou can think about your big
picture, your mission.
You can figure out just overtime you will grow and evolve as
a person and that bio of whatyou say about yourself or that
(54:12):
branding or the kind of thepremise of your show all those
things will grow over time andyou won't have the brain
capacity to do all the busy workplus focus on the boss, ceo,
high-level executive tasks ofgrowing your podcast and your
business.
So you need to have a teameventually to do it and that
team is dfypodcastcom.
Speaker 1 (54:35):
There you go, perfect .
And if I know, if, personally,I would listen to every single
minute of this podcast, of thisepisode, because I would be
taking notes, because anyonethat's interested in podcasting
you know we're trying to gleanall we can from whatever
information is out there.
So you've shared a lot for ustoday, robert.
Thank you so much.
I think I've learned so much,so much.
(54:57):
So thanks for your time andagain, tell us how to find you.
Can you tell us one more time?
Speaker 2 (55:02):
Yes, Thanks for your time and again, tell us how to
find you.
Can you tell us one more time?
Yes, that service is atdfypodcastcom.
And then the podcast that has1,400 episodes it's
marketerofthedaycom and Iinterview business owners and
entrepreneurs, includingyourself, Ms Pam Dwyer, to talk
about their struggle stories,their breakthroughs, their ahas,
their uniqueness.
(55:22):
It's always good to listen to apodcast like that because
there's only like you get boredwith the learning, the how to
step by step, but you hear aboutstories, you hear about other
people's perspectives and youstill do learn and you get
encouragement from others, andso it's just great to listen to
a podcast like withentrepreneurs on it talking
about their stories.
And that podcast ismarketerofthedaycom and I'm
(55:46):
Robert Plank.
Speaker 1 (55:47):
Thank you, robert, so much and thanks everyone for
listening in today and rememberthere's always room to do one
more.
There.
Welcome back to the Plus OneTheory podcast, where we believe
small, intentional steps canlead to powerful transformation.
I'm your host, pam Dwyer,speaker, author and founder of
the Plus One Theory.
And now Delay the Binge.
Each week, we explore realstories and real strategies that
(00:22):
help you turn past pain intopurpose, finish stronger than
you started and become someoneelse's plus one.
Today, I am thrilled tointroduce a guest who truly
understands the power ofconversation and connection.
Robert Plank is the founder ofDone For you Podcasting, where
(00:44):
he helps thought leaders growtheir business through one of
the most powerful tools we havetoday podcasting.
Robert makes it simple byremoving the tech overwhelm and
giving entrepreneurs the spaceto focus on what matters most
building trust, deepeningrelationships and turning
(01:04):
interviews into opportunities.
Whether you're looking toconnect with referral partners
or reach new prospects, robert'sapproach helps you turn
meaningful conversations intomeasurable impact.
You're going to love hearingfrom him.
Let's dive in, robert.
Welcome to the show and let'sstart by telling everyone a
(01:24):
little bit about yourself.
Like what makes Robert Planktick.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
That's a good question.
What makes Robert Plank tick?
Is solving problems, right?
That's what you and me are allabout, Ms Pam.
We're entrepreneurs and youfigure what's average, right?
What's mediocre?
What's playing it safe?
That's someone that says I don'twant to get in anyone's way, I
don't want to ruffle anyfeathers, I just want to show up
at 9 am and leave at5 pm and dojust enough to not get fired.
(01:51):
And what a miserable existenceright In this day and age, with
everything that's possible withyou can go to any country, talk
to any person, your infinitydevice in your pocket.
I mean, you used to have like acomputer that was the size of a
house, that didn't even fitinto this, and now we just have
all these opportunities in frontof us.
But we can't squander it, right, and time is short and we have
(02:13):
to push ourselves, and that's acombination of taking a risk,
get outside of our comfort zone,put in the hard work ethic, and
so I'm all about making thoseconnections and growing a
business and using podcasting todo all of it, because you start
a podcast and you candemonstrate your authority.
But the real exciting secretsauce is when you get other
(02:35):
people on, just like how you andme are doing right this instant
.
Right, you have someone on yourpodcast, you make some new
friends, you get some newcontent, you rank in the search
engines and you just kind ofeveryone evolves in a way.
Right, Like you make me thinkabout.
I have a bio that I use tointroduce myself, but then what
you just said there like I knowyou took it and you added to it
(02:57):
I'm thinking like man, I need tolike go and get the transcript
of that and add a couple ofsentences she said to my bio, or
even just that clip on its own.
I'm like I could pull just thatout and put it right there on
YouTube and that's anendorsement.
And so, just by us interactingand little bits, that rising
tide lifts all boats.
So that's what I'm all about.
Is that incremental progress,getting towards success by
(03:20):
talking to people, which can beawkward, but it's necessary, it
should be done.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yes, I agree wholeheartedly.
And the cool, cool thing aboutpodcasting is, if you're going
to interview someone, you goonline, you start checking them
out, right Because you want toknow what you're talking about,
what to ask and all that.
So not only have I been a gueston your show, but, man, is it
true that you have done over1,200 episodes?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
As of today, it is 1,000.
Well, it's 1,402 episodes total.
So I think, as far as thesubsection that's interviews, I
think 1,200 is accurate.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
That just blows my mind because I'm 30 episodes in,
I'm just starting out.
But man, what you've met somany people and shared your
story and, you know, heardtheirs, that's got to be way
amazing.
I would love to hear every I'mgoing to hear every episode.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
If it's out there, ok , better get started right,
because I'll be to hear everyepisode if it's out there.
Okay, better get started right,because I'll be adding to it so
you might fall behind.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
It's going to take a while, but from my own personal
experience, man, you were.
You really put me at easebecause you know I am fairly new
to this world and so doingbeing a guest on a podcast was a
little I was a little nervousabout it, but as soon as we
started talking, you know, I wasreally comfortable and so you
(04:50):
have a way of pulling that outin people.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
What do you think?
I didn't realize, but it wasn'talways that way, right, I used
to be socially awkward I guess Ican be sometimes, so it doesn't
come naturally and I used to bea little envious when you meet
someone and they just be realcharismatic and real people.
Wherever they go, they collectfriends and I'm just like man,
how do you do that?
(05:13):
Right, like, I feel many timeslike I'm in that middle phase of
like.
I feel like I'm smart enough toknow I'm awkward but not smart
enough to overcome it, and Ithink that there's something to
be said about the practice andthe repetitions and that just
this, this idea that when youget someone on a live podcast,
it's a good filter for people,right, like we, like you, like
(05:35):
you said, you can go on LinkedIn, you can go on YouTube, we can
even go on their Amazon and geta pretty good idea of what
they've accomplished, who theyare, and then you meet them in
person.
You can I don't know what it is,but you can somehow like
subconsciously tell from thebody language and the facial
expressions and how much they'relistening to you, or if they
(05:56):
interrupt you or if, like, a bigthing is like how much you
mirror each other right, like ifone person talks for five
minutes and the other personjust talks a little bit, and
it's like a struggle.
So there's a lot of a back andforth dance and it's just a good
way to just separate the.
There's people that just aren'tthere yet, but there's also
people that are kind of too meanand too bully, and so it's like
(06:17):
you just you meet people andyou figure them out and you
think that that can then lead tosometimes making friends or
making clients or referralpartners, and so it's just it's
a good way to overcome all thenoise, all the data, all the AI
stuff that's out there.
It's that person to personconnection, and so I feel like
just the getting smoother andnatural of it.
(06:40):
I think you never quite get toa hundred percent, but just by
being there and doing ithundreds of times, so that way
you can do it in your sleep, Ithink it just becomes more
natural, becomes a habit.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
It does and you really do.
I don't know how you do it, butwhat do you think helps people
open up so naturally to you?
I mean, is it because of theway?
Are you a natural at it, likeyou said?
Is it just the experience ofdoing it over and over and over?
I?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
think that I, as far as what I do, consciously, I try
to be attentive and I, you know, a big thing with like zooming
and podcasting is you look up atthe camera, not down at the
screen, and that took a lot ofpractice and I make sure to be
like maybe like 20% moreexaggerated, animated in what I
(07:30):
do, just because that's like astage presence thing.
Right, if you're normal thenyou look 20% lower.
Or if your normal facialexpression look like you're
frowning, right, they call thatresting bee face.
So you kind of have to be like20% more alive.
But then I'm also making aneffort to listen and then, as
far as that exaggeration, likekind of like nod and stuff like
(07:52):
that which I used to resist whenI was like a punk teenager, I'd
be like, oh, I'll listen tosomeone and I'll be like this
and they need to impress me, butlike, if you give that little
bit of feedback, then they cantell okay, I better wrap up this
point or I'll go more down thatpath.
But I think that I like to,especially these last few years,
be more of an encouragingperson, because there's not
(08:14):
enough out there and thatrelates to your mission, how,
just like a lot of us areinsecure and projecting and
wrapped up in our own stuff, andwhere does that really get you?
It seems like a life of misery.
And then you end up attractingand surrounding yourself with
other miserable people and thenyou're all just sort of stuck
together and what's the point ofthat?
(08:34):
And I think that it's better toembrace that awkwardness and be
a more positive person and bemore encouraging, because, like
you would say, like if we justcan encourage one person per day
, that's a lot more than a lotof the most people get.
So I'm just, I'm just like hey,you did that thing, I'm really
proud of you and I make adeliberate effort just to be
(08:56):
that, that positive, sort of MrRogers type of force.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah, and it is contagious.
I mean, it not only helps otherpeople to show kindness, but
there is literally a dopaminerush in your brain when you are
kind.
I read a statistic about thatthe other day.
Some doctor did a study and youget the same dopamine rush when
you receive it, but when yougive it as well.
(09:22):
So it's very good for ourbrains to be kind.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yes, imagine that.
And like my mind was blown whenI heard about the Ben Franklin
principle.
Have you heard of this one?
Speaker 1 (09:32):
No, what is it?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
It's that if I give you a dollar, pam, you'd think
that you would like me more, butit makes me like you more and
it's one of these weird likewhen you give to someone, it
makes me like you more.
And it's one of these weirdlike when, when you give to
someone, it makes you like themmore.
So and it busts out of thisthinking that you're talking
about right.
We think that it's very likezero sum, transactional exchange
(09:54):
of information, but it helpsothers and even, like we were
saying before the call this ideaof you you keep helping others
and you keep putting littlestuff out there and imagine the
ripple effect at the end of yourlifetime, what accumulates.
And there's lots of people,especially with podcasting and
content creation and yourauthoring, your speaking that
(10:15):
you'll never meet, but you justhelp them through the ripple
effect.
So it's all good, it's allimportant.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Man?
It so is, and you know where Ifirst learned that.
It's all important, man, it sois, and you know where I first
learned that, and I was going toask about your childhood too,
just real quick, just to seewhat built, what created you the
way you are today, because ourpast does.
It doesn't define us, but itdefinitely prepares us to do
what we end up doing, and so some growing up, I had a hand,
(10:42):
just a handful of people thatwere very kind to me, and it's
impacted me my entire life.
So me growing up, I had a hand,just a handful of people that
were very kind to me, and I it'simpacted me my entire life,
just those few seconds ofsomeone seeing me and being kind
, and it really impacted meforever.
So I mean, what about you?
I mean, how did you grow up?
Did you grow up with a bigfamily?
Did you have both parents?
(11:02):
Did you struggle?
What's what happened there?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Oh, now we're getting into the deep, scary stuff.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Well, I had a small.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah, I feel I feel like I'm at the psychologist.
But I had a sort of smallishfamily.
You know, both parents had asister, but I was just, I was
surrounded with, with a lot ofjerks, like.
I grew up in this town calledTracy, california, and basically
there's the Bay Area ofCalifornia right, there's the
coast, there's San Francisco andall that, and then that gets
too crowded and what do they do?
They build some other towns inthe east or they build those up,
(11:39):
and so we ended up with thistown exploded from 20,000 to
70,000.
I think it's like 100,000 now.
But when I was in high school,this town filled with everyone's
kids' parents were from the BayArea, where everyone's mean,
but they were extra mean becausethey couldn't really afford to
stay, and then they were meantimes three because they were
(11:59):
commuting an hour or two, and soit kind of raised all these
just mean kids and people thatdidn't fit in but were insecure
and were overcorrecting.
And so it kind of raised allthese just kind of just mean
kids and people that didn't fitin but were insecure and were
overcorrecting, and that's just,I guess.
Maybe my excuses, but it wasjust a lot of.
I grew up around a lot of liars.
I mean I guess I came out okay,but I just there's a lot of
(12:19):
just kind of mean friends, or ifyou had friends, they were only
friends with you because theywanted something.
And then they got to the pointand they cut you loose and my
dad was mean, my sister was mean, my mom was pretty nice but,
and then I joined Boy Scouts andthen it was like a lot of the
dads were similar, like they'dsay A and then they'd do B right
(12:42):
, and they'd say, hey, youshould do A, and then they'd do
B right, and they'd say, hey,you should do A and then they
would do B.
So there was a lot of just likelip service, but I think.
But then and so there was like80, 90% bad, but then there was
a couple of little good mentorsand you hope that that sticks
out because the human cavemanbrain is designed to pay more
(13:05):
attention to danger, because itwants to keep you out of danger
and ignore those little goodthings.
So it's up to us to sort offlip it.
And I feel like the sixth gradewas peak childhood for me.
It was like so many differentthings happened.
It was like five years in one Ihad a really good teacher.
He was just real charismaticand really nice and he told
different stories and he wasn'tone of these that, like you know
(13:28):
, when someone, some old personor some adult, they kind of go
on all these long stories, buthe told like just the right ones
and they some of them stillstick with me every day.
Like he told about this idea oflike you don't have to go to
college if that's not your path,and it was some some idea of
like you go and you work somejob and you come home sweaty and
you take a shower and you'relike you're ready to start your
(13:51):
evening.
And I don't even remember halfof it, but it stuck with me.
Or like there was a story oflike some guy was stuck at the
top of some smokestack in oursmall town like 100 years before
.
So he just he made it fun,right, and he mixed things up
and it wasn't just teaching outof the textbook and we would do
like group projects or and Ithink what out of all the stuff
(14:12):
that really kind of still stickswith me is we would do the
writing process.
I know you're an author and thewriting process can be fun.
And he put out this calendarand he'd say, well, on monday
you do your brainstorm and youroutline, on tuesday you do your
rough draft, on wednesday you doyour peer review, on thursday
you do your like final editingand polish, and on friday you do
(14:34):
your cover.
And it was only, like you know,one slice out of the the day.
It was like you know, thirdperiod or something like that,
but that was so much.
It was this good, it was thiscombination of fun, structure,
creativity, stress, and then bythe time you get to the end
result, then you've created andwe ended up with these.
(14:55):
I'm sure my mom has themsomewhere.
It's these little like tinybooks, but they're like kind of
hardcover and they're hand-drawnand they're written in and
they've been polished andrevised because they've gone
through all these differentsteps and it just it opened the
mind of what was possible if youhave like a little bit of a
structure and you make sure tolike fulfill those tasks.
(15:16):
And it was just, it was so muchfun, right, it was the good old
days.
So there you go.
As far as the mentoredness thatsticks, that, that sticks out,
as far as the, the goodcombination of fun, storytelling
and just like as projectmanagement.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Right and you know it does speak a lot about the way
you are now because you know you, you figured out what you
didn't like and you figured outwhat you liked and you ran with
that.
I also noticed you reallyhelped me feel seen when you
were interviewing me, you know.
Do you think that podcasts havebecome a vehicle for that, you
(15:58):
know, for people to feelempowered and maybe in a way
they weren't expecting?
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, I guess.
So you always jump in and youthink it'll go one way and it
goes something else, becausethere's another brain involved.
And I think that there was arecent aha, maybe about six
months ago, when I was stilltrying to figure out AI, because
we all are right, we're tryingto figure out AI and chat, gpt,
and well, I know the promisethat I can just put out all this
(16:26):
content and get all thistraffic, but then when I do it,
it puts out all this just notvery good stuff.
And so someone said this.
They said well, what you shoulddo is go on a podcast and just
have a conversation and feed itthrough chat, gpt and have a
breakdown like the questions andanswers, and you can kind of
see what you set the table with.
(16:47):
And then take that and go andlook on other podcasts, like
kind of extract some keywords,do some searches, go on youtube,
find some other similar showsand see what the questions and
answers are there and then lookat the answers and see like if
you could come up with betteranswers.
And that got the gears turning.
That got me thinking like, hey,that's kind of a way to like
(17:07):
continuously get better, rightand up your game and say, okay,
well, we'll have thisconversation with Robert and Pam
and we'll talk about all thesethings and we'll go in
unexpected places and then we'lljust kind of like, compare to
what we did previously, compareto what's out there, and I think
that that's more of what aishould be right.
Instead of things being likecompletely hands-off, automated,
(17:30):
you use it as this tool to say,well, what have I done, what
have I said and how can I getthat not depersonalized or ai
enhanced, but like, more dialedin right, more of like like.
There's that whole idea of ifyou have some argument and one
of you is like standing on thestaircase and then the
(17:50):
argument's over and then youwalk up the stairs you think, oh
, I should have said just thatexact thing.
And when you have a podcastyou'll have moments like that.
But hey, you can save that inyour back pocket for the next
speaking gig or blog posts or,even better, for the next
podcast that you're on.
So there's a lot of fun thereof your ability to read.
(18:11):
I don't know if redo is a goodway of saying it, but you can
have these conversations andthen have better ones as you go
or go in unexpected places andget your messaging figured out,
so it can be a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Well, and I think the key word that you that if
people would look at AI as justa tool, right, instead of
wanting it to do it all for them, because I mean that's, we're
human and we're all guilty ofutilizing tools Hoping that it's
going to fix everything, right,but it doesn't.
It's just a tool that's goingto give you the space to be
(18:52):
better, right, and so I don't.
It's just like with bariatricsurgery or other weight loss
tools, those injections thatpeople are taking, the GLP-1s.
You know they think that that'sthe fix-all, and it's not.
It's just a tool, right, thatgives you the time to fix what's
really broken while you're inthat pickle in the first place.
And so I think AI is in thesame boat.
(19:16):
It's definitely a great tooland I utilize it for you know a
lot of things, but I don't letit do my work, I don't let it
create for me.
You know, I definitely have tokeep on top of that.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
So yeah, and I mean you and I, I think both use
podcasting for a little bitselfish reasons, right, like
there's, like you have, you have, I know I'm your first guest,
right, or?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
have you had others?
Okay, no, I've had others, butnone that were as well as
knowledgeable as you inpodcasting, so I've challenged
myself with that.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
But I'm sure you've learned you always pick up
tidbits, no matter who it is.
And one guy I talked to earlyon about AI, I'm like, well,
like, how would you explain it?
How do I get my head about it?
And he said, well, think of itlike a pocket calculator, but
for language.
And it's like you know youdon't want to depend on the.
You still want to know how tosay two plus two, but if you're
(20:12):
calculating the square root of500, maybe you should dial that
in.
And so it's like you get thoselittle tidbits from doing
podcasting.
And then you think about the.
I don't know that much aboutweight loss, but like there's
all, there's all these new, likecrazy drugs out there, right?
And then the little things thatyou hear is you're like, well,
long-term it might cause, like,pancreas damage.
(20:35):
Or they say, like these the bigthing you hear is that, well,
they're designed to be taken forlife.
Like, you take it, you lose theweight.
You get off it, you gain theweight back.
And it's like there's always atradeoff, right, there's never
like a magic medicine of like,hey, this solves it.
There's like there's alwayssome price to be paid.
So it's like when you look atthe tradeoff, it's like wouldn't
it be more healthy, sustainable, just a better approach to just
(20:59):
like kind of change some habits, right?
Speaker 1 (21:05):
And just you know, try to do it without the
shortcut.
Yeah, definitely, and it's likeany medication, right?
If you read all the sideeffects, you're like I'm not
taking this pill.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
It's going to make things worse.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
But sometimes people have to choose the side effects
over the long-term effect ofwhat's happening with them.
Like cholesterol, highcholesterol.
There's a lot of side effectson that.
My husband takes it and he'slike I'm not taking this.
I said, yeah, it's either thatthose symptoms, those side
effects, or you have a stroke.
I don't know, you pick, youpick one.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
So it's a balancing act.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
It is a balancing act .
If we could if I could figureout balance, I'd be the happiest
human being on the earth.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
But I worry about that term, balance right Because
it's like you think balancedoes that mean like one foot in,
one foot out?
Does that mean that I'm kind ofputting half on my business and
half in my personal life?
I kind of worry about that too.
I feel like it is.
I love having the hyper focus.
I love having a little bit ofthe controlled chaos for
(22:08):
momentum right, like just enoughhealthy stress, just enough of
the deadlines and the urgency toget things done.
So that idea of balance, I'malways concerned about that term
personally.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Well, let me tell you , let me give you a little
helpful tidbit, and this isstraight from my grandmother,
bless her heart.
Let me tell you, let me giveyou a little helpful tidbit, and
this is straight from mygrandmother, bless her heart.
But I used to talk to her aboutbalancing and her philosophy
was um, it was like cooking,right.
So, and that's where I mean,she's the one that you know,
showed me what all about theplus one.
You know doing your best, plusone more mediocrity, forget
(22:41):
about it.
But she said, with cooking, youwant to give it your all with
preparing the meal, but it's notthe meal.
The process is not the meal.
The meal is sitting at a tablewith your family enjoying them.
But you had to do all this plusone work in preparing it,
planning it, you know, gettingit ready, that's the work, but
(23:02):
the result the result is is thebalance.
So I don't know, I just alwayslook at it like that and no one
ever appreciates it.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Right, it's like you think of there's how many movies
have been made throughout humanhistory, like how many
thousands and every single movieit took.
How many months, years,millions of dollars, hundreds,
thousands of people.
And here you and I are like allright, well, this 90 minutes,
this better be good.
And it's like that.
That took someone's lifesavings.
This movie might havebankrupted some company.
(23:35):
It was so expensive.
And here we are just looking atthe end result and saying like,
oh well, that movie could havebeen better.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, yeah, that's.
That's the hard part,especially in the creative world
.
Because, you know, even evenlike my book from the Piney
Woods, it's a memoir Noteverybody reads those, right,
it's not everybody's bag.
So I just had to accept thatpeople don't read that sort of
book.
It's not anything against mycraft or my writing or the story
(24:03):
, it's just that that's nottheir thing.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, but the beauty of the internet is all the
obscure media, right?
Or maybe I don't know ifobscure is the right word, but
there's all these, just like.
Sometimes there's someyoutubers they follow with like
30 subscribers, with like 100subscribers, or they're not the
mainstream.
And there was this one youtuberwhere he put out 100 videos and
(24:27):
they were all good, of justfilming this intersection.
He's he was in santa monica,california, and he there was
just the intersection not builtvery well and all these like
cars coming in five differentways and they'd almost get in
accidents and he'd providecommentary and I watched all
these videos and he only got hebarely got 100 views per video.
But I was one of them and then afew years ago I was in los
(24:48):
angeles, like I took the journeyto like stand in this
intersection just because itwasn't world famous but it was
important to me and that'sthat's kind of interesting to
think about.
Right Is it doesn't have to bethe most mass market sort of
stuff.
Like one of my favorite showsgrowing up was mystery science
theater 3000, right, you knowthat where they make fun of the
(25:08):
bad movies and it's like youturn a bad into a good and you
have your own unique personalpreferences.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yes, exactly, and that's how you build your tribe
or your community, and that'swhat I've really been focusing
on is just trying to build acommunity of people that get
what I'm saying and can growfrom it and thrive from it.
But the key to remember and ifanybody's listening to this is
that let Robert know how muchyou enjoyed an episode.
(25:38):
You know, just reach out andjust say, hey, man, that really
touched my heart and I justthank you for that, because I'm
still not getting, you know,hardly any feedback on anything
that I do.
And that's what fuels us right,that's what keeps us going and
keeps us creating, is thefeedback.
Are we making a difference?
(25:59):
Are we doing this right?
And so I just hope people reachout and let you know.
You know how much your work isaffecting them, impacting them.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Yes, it's very rare and it's easy to do.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah, it's just takes seconds, you know, just like
the kindness thing.
But, um, which brings me to aquestion I really wanted to ask
you is like what are some of thebiggest misconceptions you see
people having when they launch apodcast?
You know, when they first start, because they're learning,
they're wearing many.
When they first start becausethey're learning, they're
wearing many hats, of course,because usually it's just one
(26:36):
person trying to do it right.
They don't have a team ofpeople.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yes, and I think that the big one is the equipment
right.
People, they overthink it andyou start where you're at and
you I mean you start with yourphone right Start filming in
your car.
The content matters more thanthe production quality, which
will evolve over time anyway.
So if you buy all thesedifferent microphones, all these
(27:00):
different lights, all thesedifferent backgrounds, you're
going to just distract yourselfand give yourself a big old
to-do list and then you'll bejust spending all these weeks
seeking perfection and trying tostart it out right.
But I think you should startwhere you are and I have a lot
of fun going back and anyonethat you follow who is famous
now.
You go back and look at theearly Mel Robbins or Tim Ferriss
(27:23):
or Gary Vaynerchuk, anyone.
You go back 15 years ago, towhen YouTube started.
You look at the earliest videosthey put out and they're so
young and they have a bad putout and they're so young and
they have a bad haircut andthey're so awkward and the
lighting's bad and that's wherethey started at.
And if they try to start wherethey're at now, back then, then
they would have seen like, maybelike an imposter, or they would
(27:44):
have done 52 takes withoutdoing one.
So I think that's the biggestis you have to just start where
you're at.
And I am jealous about thesepeople that have the in-person
podcast studios.
Like, don't they look so slickwith like the?
They've got like neon signs onthe walls and, yeah, they got
the headphones or they got thecouches or they have like the,
the kind of the, the microphoneshanging down in front of the
(28:07):
couches and it looks like a lotof fun.
And I do need to get on anin-person podcast one of these
days.
But it's just a prospectingthing, right, you figure out who
will take you and then whereyou'll be and you'll show up.
But I think that you don't haveto start there and it's even.
It's just it's less ways to gowrong.
Like, I've even recordedinterviews where I had the
(28:29):
person in person, but I justwent in the other room because I
was like, well, we're pickingeach other up or it's echoey, or
we're going to have to share amic and that's awkward.
So it's like the Zoom world welive in, or Riverside, where
there's side-by-sideconversation.
It's good enough to get thecontent out there that you want
and you don't need to overthinkit.
You don't need to have thefancy podcast studio or the
(28:50):
fancy mic and you don't need topile up a lot of episodes.
I've seen that too, of likejust kind of recording a bunch
of stuff and filling up a folderand saying, okay, well, I'll
record five, I'll record 25,I'll record 50.
And then you're focused on therecording but not on the putting
it out and the marketing, and Ireally think that you should be
(29:10):
spending 20% creating and 80%marketing, right?
You should be looking every dayinto who do I want to reach?
Where am I going to post at?
What new channel am I going toput it out right?
Am I going to send an emailblast?
Do a LinkedIn post?
Put out a YouTube short?
There's so many things to putout there.
And that's I mean.
(29:31):
That's the first step is justto post more frequently.
And so when you pile up 20, 30,50 episodes and then you feel
good at first because you'relike, hey, I'm making progress,
but then it becomes thatproductive procrastination and
then, a few months later, thenit morphs into self-sabotage,
because you look at this folderfull of stuff and you're like
there's this mix of like well,this stuff's out of date now.
(29:53):
Now it's a year old.
And then I now I don't evenwant to follow up with these
guests because they'll hate me,because they'll be like what?
The episode isn't out yet.
So you're just tying yourselfin knots and the better way is
to just proceed with imperfectaction right, they call it a
ready fire aim and put out anepisode or two.
(30:13):
And every podcast platform isreally good about migrating.
So I really recommendBuzzsprout.
But if you ever say later like,oh well, I want to move to
Spotify for podcasts or I wantto move to Libsyn or one of
these other and they're allnamed so weird.
But you can pick up and you cantransfer all your podcasts to
some other platform if youreally want to.
(30:35):
But what's really important isyou get a podcast, get it
started, get established onthese social media platforms and
start posting, because if youdo want to have guests of any
kind, they're going to do that.
30 seconds of research on you,right?
And if they see that your lastpost was three years ago, or if
they see that you only have 10followers, well then they'll
(30:56):
hesitate and you have to startsomewhere.
And you have to start bycreating the episodes, putting
it out there and then iteratingand promoting the old stuff and
contacting the old guests.
So don't do the buildup right.
You say you're all aboutdelaying the binge.
Well, don't delay the binge ofoh, I've got to put 20 podcasts
out there.
(31:16):
Instead, make this habit ofsaying, well, I'll put out, and
to say I'll put out one thisweek or every week.
It's too scary, too daunting.
But you say I'll put out fourthis month.
Right, and so it's.
And so you don't have to make aforever commitment.
Just say like, hey, this coming30 days, 90 days, I'll put out
(31:38):
X amount and then I'll reassessand I'll see where I'm at.
And so it's like you.
Just, you have to put it outthere, you have to take some
action, you have to publish.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Well, and I love that , because all the research of
course I did my due diligenceand I was studying other
podcasters and trying to figureout what equipment to get.
Did I really need to invest alot?
And I did find that my phone,just like you said, was really
and I got this little lapel micthat connects with the phone, so
it gave me pretty good soundand so I started just doing
podcasts like that, just on awalk or whenever I was out,
(32:16):
because I have another real jobthat pays the mortgage and puts
food on the table.
So, you know, then I didn't,and then they kept telling
everyone was saying, get a stackthose episodes so that you have
a whole stack of them.
But what I found is like, afterthis episode, you know, I'm
excited about what we talkedabout and so I don't want to
(32:37):
lose that momentum, so Iimmediately start editing or
doing whatever I need to do and,by the way, I do use Buzzsprout
.
It's amazing.
They have an AI feature on there.
I paid a little extra, but it'sso worth it.
It saves me a lot of time.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Put your Buzzsprout affiliate link in the comments
right.
Officially sponsored byBuzzsprout.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, yeah, I can definitely do that and they are
wonderful.
They make it very easy for theperson like me that doesn't know
a whole lot of technical stuffabout editing and all the
important things that need to bedone as far as publishing it.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Yes, and that's important to separate the
creativity from thetechnicalities, like sure you
should.
I guess you should have controlover what you want to write and
be able to choose, like thetitles and the graphics and
things like that.
But there's definitely a dangerin falling into the rabbit hole
of saying, well, I don't evenhave time to podcast because I'm
(33:37):
editing all these podcasts andthat's why the stack can be
scary, right, because now youhave a stack.
A stack sounds good at first,but then does anyone like a
stack of papers?
And so if you have a stack ofall these episodes, you have to
edit and schedule and put outthere.
And I think what and you and Ithink there's something
interesting as far as likefiguring out your message in
(33:59):
marketing is is thinking aboutwhat are people's ahas, right,
what are their turning points.
And I knew a guy a bunch ofyears ago and he was kind of, he
was really smart, but he waskind of shy.
So I related to him Because onthe inside I am too and then he
embraced podcasting and what gothim to do it was he said
(34:21):
imagine if you had 100 peoplerooting for you and working for
you and promoting you.
Well, you can by having 100guests on your podcast, right,
it's like the John Rockefellersays, instead of me, john
Rockefeller says, instead of medoing a hundred percent, I'd
rather have a hundred peopledoing 1%.
And so and I was like, hey, soit's about the people, right,
(34:42):
it's not just about the content.
So if you think, if you hadthat stack of episodes that
you've been sitting on, versusif you say, after a year you had
a hundred podcast guests andthat's all these opportunities
to follow up and to remind themto post, and to go and boost up
their social media and liketheir stuff or to post about
(35:03):
them, even though the episodewas three, six months ago, post
about them again and tag themagain and post a reel again.
And so by stacking too much,you're losing out on all the
follow-up time of building therelationship and you could end
up with a funnel or a path ofsomeone who's been on your
podcast and there's, like I meanwith me, there's some of these
(35:26):
people with like five, 10 yearsof history where you can go back
and see like all the times I'vetweeted or X them or whatever
they call it these days and anyplatform there's.
Just like all this follow up.
I can go and search my emailand there's all this kind of
reminding them of like, hey,here's this link, do you want to
come back on the show?
And so there's just all thesedeep in relationships where you
(35:49):
can't build a relationshipinstantly.
Right?
Warren Buffett says you can'tget nine ladies pregnant in one
month.
Right?
If you're baking a cake, likeyour grandma was, and you're
like I only have five minutes tofinish baking this cake, you
can't just crank up the heat,right?
Some of these things take time,and so you need to have your
(36:11):
delays and give these people thegift of missing you and for
them to see that you're in itfor the long haul and that
you've been promoting them everycouple of weeks for the last
six months or a year, not justbarfing a bunch of stuff out
there in the podcast world.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
I love that barfing it out, man.
My granny must be on this callbecause I have another.
She has always said it remindsme of this.
She said the road to hell ispaved with good intentions,
pamela.
Yes, a hundred percent, and soyour intention is to, you know,
build up all these episodes orjust do all this stuff, and
(36:48):
pretty soon you're going to beburned out.
Have you ever felt that wayLike, uh, since you've done so
many, how long has a 1200episode, or 1400 episodes?
How long have you been doingthis?
How long does it take to dothat many?
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Uh, it has it's taken 13 years.
I started it it and I was 28and I was just recording one
episode per week and I had allthese hangups.
I told myself a podcast had tobe a whole hour long.
(37:23):
It didn't.
20 minutes is better and Iwould fit my best stuff in there
and I would have a wholeepisode about copywriting and a
whole episode about WordPressand a whole episode about
programming and I would start torun out of content and after
even like 20 episodes I was likehow can I keep going?
(37:44):
How is this sustainable?
How will I keep going?
And then I found someone who Ihonestly I didn't really like.
His name's Joel Calm.
I really don't like him as aperson, like at all, but
sometimes I see some of the coolstuff he does and he put out a
podcast like years ago and helike ended his podcast.
I thought, hey, that's whatI'll do, I'll get to.
I'll say the podcast is endingat 100 episodes and every
(38:07):
episode I'll announce that thepodcast is ending and people
will be like, oh my gosh, butdon't worry, it ends at podcast
number 100.
And so that was my goal and bythe time I got to like 50 solo
episodes, I was really runningout of content.
And then, here and there I wouldsprinkle in maybe like one
every 10 episodes I would have aguest.
(38:27):
And so what I would do is, if Imet someone at a conference or
something and we would exchangebusiness cards usually to barely
see each other ever again I'dfollow up.
And what do you do if you meetsomeone and you exchange
business cards and you follow up?
Oh well, is it?
I'll buy your stuff, you'll buymy stuff.
But that's too much of a gap toleap over.
So it turned into let's get ona Skype back then, and now
(38:50):
Skype's even gone.
But that's how we meet.
Yeah, and they're out ofbusiness now, just like ICQ and
the rest, right, even thoughMySpace and AOL are still online
somehow.
But anyway, we'd go on Skype,we'd have this conversation and
there was just some magic there,right, and you could talk the
other person up and so, just forfun, the other person up, and
(39:16):
so, just for fun, I took, Ithink just like six of those
interviews and I put them intobook format and it was just,
we've all been there where youdiscover Amazon and Kindle and
you're like, okay, let me justput out a book just for fun.
And I put out and this wasbefore ChatGPT could clean stuff
up, so it was literally atranscript.
It was Robert colon says this,and Ryan Healy colon said that
(39:36):
it was literally a book of justa transcript.
And then that outsold my otherbooks that I spent a lot more
time on and I got like reallygood feedback about people
saying like, hey, I picked thisup and I couldn't put it down.
(40:17):
No-transcript, choose a slot inmy calendar and put in your bio
and answer these questions andthen, boom, now they're on your
calendar and then all that's onyou is you have to make sure to
show up.
But you think, well, like adoctor or a lawyer or a
therapist, like they have toshow up for their appointments,
(40:39):
so you take that seriously, youshow up and you have a
conversation like this and thenyou follow up.
And so once you do that, thenyou can have unlimited content,
right, because you're not alwaysstruggling for the next thing
to say.
Then you can have unlimitedcontent, right, because you're
not always struggling for thenext thing to say.
And then I think, as the host Imean I guess there's like a yin
and the yang, right, as thehost, you have it pretty easy,
(41:00):
because if you wanted to, youcould just ask the same five or
six questions.
But if you're a good podcasthost, like you are, then you
listen closely and you pick upthe thread and you're just
meeting interesting people, andso that's how, then.
And so probably maybe every liketwo or three hundred episodes
or episodes, which is probablylike maybe once a year, I would
(41:22):
doubt myself, I would be aboutto give up and I would have to
find some new way of adding thedifficulty, the challenge to it,
and I think I would get boredbecause it would get become too
much of the routine of addingthe difficulty, the challenge to
it, and I think I would getbored because it would become
too much of the routine, itwould become too easy and I
would think, okay, it's easy,now I need to go find something
harder.
And that's your opportunity toup your podcast game.
(41:44):
That's when it's time to thenget the better lights or the
better microphone or to maybepursue some better guests, or
you get on other shows.
Or there was finally, at onepoint the technology existed
where video became morereasonable to store and record
and do so.
I switched from audio only tovideo and then that opened up
(42:07):
posting on YouTube for me, onYouTube for me, and then, you
know, then switch from Zoom toRiverside and then sometimes
focus more on the SEO and comingup with better titles and
focusing on the follow-up andfocusing on the chat, gpt and
like turning a podcast into likea LinkedIn post and an
infographic.
And so I think that if youstart to get so, I guess one
(42:31):
obstacle is being deliberate,being diligent, and I think that
might be like a mindfulnessthing of just like properly
preparing yourself and takingthings seriously, knowing your
purpose, knowing what thepodcast will lead to.
So that way you start theexcitement.
But then, in order to sustainthe excitement, you do need to
see some results, and that canbe like your mission of helping
(42:52):
others, or, if that turns intolike clients way you keep all of
that excitement working, keepall of that excitement working
(43:30):
Well.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
you just described the plus one theory right there.
You just keep improving youknow, because if you just stay
stuck, you'll you'll getuninspired, right You'll you'll
get bored, like you said.
And if that does happen I mean,has that I'm sure that's
happened with you where yourealize, okay, I need to up my
game because I'm starting to befeel stuck or bored, and so you,
(43:56):
you, you reignite your momentumby by adding new challenges.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Correct, correct.
All the time you take adifferent route when you're
driving to your destination.
If things are still in yourrelationship, you go on a hot
date, like, of course there'salways.
You have awareness of when.
When it's just, it's tooroutine.
You have to change things up.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Exactly, and we talked about some of the tools.
Are there any other tools thatyou would recommend people look
into?
I mean, what are your favorites?
Speaker 2 (44:28):
I know Buzzsprout's one Like especially for if I
need to jump into thetranscripts and I need to do
some little editing and pull upthe clips.
And then I've also had fun withOpus, which is just like just
(44:53):
for clips and you can upload thepodcast.
You can upload any podcast, youcan even steal a podcast.
You upload your own and then itgives you the reels, the shorts
and, like ChatGBT is anall-in-one tool, upload your own
and then it gives you the, thereels, the shorts and I've had,
and like g chat, gbt is a, youknow, all-in-one tool.
I pay the 200 a month versionbecause I use it so much and
that's just kind of like you canuse that for anything, right.
You and especially, you uploadthe transcript of your podcast
(45:17):
and you can just turn it intoyou.
You say, well, can, can youcreate a LinkedIn post for me?
Can you create a LinkedInrecommendation for me?
That's a fun one where, like, alot of people don't know that
on your LinkedIn page there'slike your resume and the way you
can post, but people can leavereviews about you and they're
(45:38):
called recommendations and soand a lot of them are real
shallow, right, because that'show it is, but you, as a
podcaster, have an opportunityto leave a really thoughtful
recommendation and you can kindof cheat because you use ChatGPT
, but you sort of didn't cheatbecause their original content
came from your conversation,right?
So you and me, pam, we've beentalking for almost an hour and
(46:02):
we've said all kinds of amazingpersonal things to each other
and you feed that into ChatGBTand you say give me a really
good LinkedIn recommendation forRobert, following all the best
practices you know and you didput in the work.
You just didn't put in thatlast bit of work of like writing
it, but you can refine it andthen you end up with the end
result is a way more thoughtfullinkedin recommendation than
(46:24):
others.
So chat gbt is a really funall-in-one tool for for all
those sorts of things.
Right, you use chat gbt tofollow up with your guests and,
uh, and you know, refine yourthe titles of your podcast.
You go back and forth likeanything else.
So it's like there's, there'snot, I don't, and then and in
canva is huge too right, as faras it's a like an, online.
(46:46):
I love canva big time yeah, anda lot of people don't even know
how you can just kind of bustsomething out right, all the,
all these youtube thumbnailswhere the person's going like
like that or something.
You can just, you know, uh,take a picture yourself doing
that, slap on some graphics, andthen also, and you combine
(47:06):
these things together, youcombine these, say, with like
ChatGPT, right, and you can makeyour thumbnail graphic.
And if you're not sure about it, you take a screenshot of it.
I think on Windows it's likeWindows key shift S and you draw
a box and you paste it right inChatGPT.
And you say a box and you pasteit right in chat GPT and you
say how would you change thisthumbnail?
It gives you suggestions and youswitch back to Canva and you
(47:28):
say, oh, it told me to have agreen background instead of a
blue one.
Well, I'll follow itssuggestion.
And then the end result is youdon't want to get too techie,
right At some point.
You do want to like, delegateand outsource the stuff.
That's monotonous and timeconsuming.
But for the little quick fixes,chat GPT is great to have a
(47:49):
little buddy to, to write, torefine, to look at how things
came out.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
Yeah, it's like having a college professor in
your room because I will takelike a pitch on something I'm
doing, like a pitch on somethingI'm doing.
I'll write up a pitch and thenI'll stick it into chat GPT and
ask say, what do you think aboutthis pitch?
Where can I improve it?
And they're like Pam, youreally need to have a beginning,
a middle and an end of yourstory format, blah, blah, blah,
(48:13):
blah.
But you know, I'm like oh, Ididn't know that.
So then it helps me structureit so much better so that the
reader, you know it's moreeffective for the reader.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
Yeah, and I have that visual lately when I do it too.
It's like the asymptotes, likethe Zeno's paradox of like you
shoot an arrow and does itreally hit the target?
Well, no, it gets halfway, getshalfway, it gets closer and
closer.
And so like, yeah, there's somany like marketing tasks, of
like I use it for landing pagesand sales letters a lot.
(48:45):
Right, I'll be like, well, Iwant to sell this service or
this product and I've got thisYouTube video where I talk about
sort of what it mostly shouldbe.
So write me the sales letter.
Well, I don't like that.
We'll add this and that to theoffer, change the headline.
You don't have it, just writeit for you, sight unseen.
You tell it what to change, youhave it, give suggestions and
(49:06):
you kind of navigate and you getcloser and closer to what it
should be.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Yeah, and there's all kinds of details that are
critical, even like with YouTubeon Buzzsprout, it will
automatically upload it yourpodcast to YouTube.
But I've never done videobefore because I just didn't
have the equipment before and soit was just uploading my audio.
But I found out that YouTubeignores those.
(49:31):
They don't like it, they wantvideo and they want awesome
thumbnails.
So in order to rank you well,you've got to have both the
audio and video for YouTube, butthat's not necessarily true for
other platforms you know, yeah,and there's always just so much
to navigate.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
There's all these platforms.
They all do it differently andthey all have all these little
things to fill in, right?
Even like with YouTube, it'slike oh, I forgot the.
I have to upload the subtitles.
Oh, I forgot that there's thetags.
Oh, I forgot that my channelitself has keywords.
Oh, maybe I should go andrefine the title of my channel.
There's always just otherthings to set and ChatGBT is
(50:09):
great about.
Like if I just say, well, whatshould I fill on this field
based on here's my podcasttranscript what should the title
, what should the tags, whatshould the thumbnail be?
If I should leave a commentunder my own video, just like,
what should I say?
It just helps you fill in theempty boxes.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
Well, and that's why, Robert, a lot of people like me
look for people like you fordone for you podcasting.
Someone that is an expert andthat knows what the heck they're
doing.
Yeah, and someone.
If you don't want to half-assyour podcast, then you hire
someone like Robert that knowshow to do all these things and
has figured it all out for you.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Yeah, whole-ass your podcast, don't half-ass it.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
Yeah, whole-ass.
Hey, there's your new sloganWhole-ass, your podcast with
Robert Plank.
I like it.
And you're done for you withpodcasting.
Yeah, and you're done for youwith podcasting, yeah.
Well, with that I am going tohave to end our conversation,
because you know people getbored when they're too long.
Of course that's what youtaught me you taught me on this
episode that a 20-minute episodeis much better than an
(51:15):
hour-long one.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:17):
But it's also your rules.
So it's your show, you do whatyou want.
Yeah, your rules.
So it's your show, you do whatyou want.
And then you also can meetpeople where they're at, because
we've been saying many times inthis discussion that there are
different types of people andthere are different types of
platforms.
Right, there's Instagram,there's TikToks, and you figure,
like the personality type thatgoes and scrolls, tiktok is
(51:39):
probably different than like aFacebook or LinkedIn person, and
so I have this done for you.
Podcasting service it'sdfypodcastcom, and the vision,
the dream, is that you just giveus your episodes, right, you
give us that stack and we clearthe stack for you.
And so that way, when you say,hey, I'm Pam and I just had this
amazing conversation withRobert, here's the video my team
(52:01):
goes and makes that thumbnail,makes the title, makes the show
notes, makes the reels, so thatway you can post to TikTok and
to LinkedIn.
We take the best quotes thatyou said and we use Canva and we
put up a picture of you or yourguest and put the quote right
on there.
And we've all seen those socialposts where usually it's a
(52:24):
motivational quote.
Right, there'll be like a MelRobbins or a Thomas Jefferson.
But hey, what if there was aquote that was said by you or
said by your guests and we makethose two and post those to
Instagram.
And so that way I found that,at least for me and everyone
I've met that we all, like thesuccessful business, people use
social media, but our brainsonly really like one or two, and
(52:46):
I think that there's only somuch time in the day and I think
there might be like an age,demographic plus a personality
thing.
A lot of us are well, I justlike YouTube, I just like
LinkedIn, and you should beeverywhere.
You should at least have likeaccounts on some platforms, you
should at least be postingsometimes.
And so this is your chance tojust focus on one or two of the
social platforms you like, butthen the Facebook and the X also
(53:09):
gets posted to.
Or if there's some new platformlike threads, you can just say,
hey, can I post to threads aswell?
And so that way you just havethis kind of continuous machine
of all these different thingsposting, yeah, and it posts
everywhere, and you kind offocus your energy and your time
where it should be right On the20% of the relationship building
(53:31):
and the big picture and thegrowing your business and
working on your guests and yourpeople and helping them out with
their mission.
And then me and my team does allthat extra busy work of making
sure that that Canva graphic andthe text is aligned here
instead of being aligned there.
So we do all that timeconsuming busy work and you do
(53:51):
the fun, important stuff ofhaving these podcasting
conversations.
That way you don't burn out,that way you can find the new
ways to challenge yourself andyou can think about your big
picture, your mission.
You can figure out just overtime you will grow and evolve as
a person and that bio of whatyou say about yourself or that
(54:12):
branding or the kind of thepremise of your show all those
things will grow over time andyou won't have the brain
capacity to do all the busy workplus focus on the boss, ceo,
high-level executive tasks ofgrowing your podcast and your
business.
So you need to have a teameventually to do it and that
team is dfypodcastcom.
Speaker 1 (54:35):
There you go, perfect .
And if I know, if, personally,I would listen to every single
minute of this podcast, of thisepisode, because I would be
taking notes, because anyonethat's interested in podcasting
you know we're trying to gleanall we can from whatever
information is out there.
So you've shared a lot for ustoday, robert.
Thank you so much.
I think I've learned so much,so much.
(54:57):
So thanks for your time andagain, tell us how to find you.
Can you tell us one more time?
Speaker 2 (55:02):
Yes, Thanks for your time and again, tell us how to
find you.
Can you tell us one more time?
Yes, that service is atdfypodcastcom.
And then the podcast that has1,400 episodes it's
marketerofthedaycom and Iinterview business owners and
entrepreneurs, includingyourself, Ms Pam Dwyer, to talk
about their struggle stories,their breakthroughs, their ahas,
their uniqueness.
(55:22):
It's always good to listen to apodcast like that because
there's only like you get boredwith the learning, the how to
step by step, but you hear aboutstories, you hear about other
people's perspectives and youstill do learn and you get
encouragement from others, andso it's just great to listen to
a podcast like withentrepreneurs on it talking
about their stories.
And that podcast ismarketerofthedaycom and I'm
(55:46):
Robert Plank.
Speaker 1 (55:47):
Thank you, robert, so much and thanks everyone for
listening in today and rememberthere's always room to do one
more.
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