64: The Power of Emotional Management for Athletes and Parents with Pierre DeBar

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Unlock the secrets to achieving peak physical and mental performance in athletics with Pierre DeBar, an expert in cultural and high performance, and co-founder of a sports psychology app for hockey. Ever wondered how managing relationships with yourself, others, and your environment can elevate your game? Pierre shares his extensive background in pain recovery and performance coaching, revealing practical techniques drawn from his own athletic journey in hockey and soccer. His insights into high performance relationship management provide a unique perspective for athletes, coaches, and anyone striving for excellence.

Discover the transformative power of emotional management for both athletes and their parents. Pierre dives into the science behind how parents' emotional states can significantly impact their children's athletic experiences and overall well-being. Learn how true confidence can be cultivated through emotional coherence between the heart and mind, and how parents can foster a positive, growth-oriented sports environment. Pierre's exploration of the heart's electromagnetic field and its influence on perception and communication provides a fascinating look at the emotional underpinnings of high performance.

Finally, explore practical tools for managing emotions and stress, from breathwork techniques to mental reframing. Pierre's personal anecdotes about transitioning from coaching with anger to a more connected approach highlight the profound impact of aligning thoughts and feelings for overall well-being. Whether you're an athlete seeking to improve your performance, a coach aiming to support your team better, or a parent looking to create a nurturing environment, this episode is packed with valuable insights and actionable advice.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:53):
We'll be right back.
Good evening everybody andwelcome to the Podolsky Method
Podcast.
I'm your host, coach Ilya.
I'm a level five UC hockeymaster coach, coach creator and
host of the Podolsky Methodpodcast.
Owner and operator of a skatesharpening shop called
Sharpskate, new York, usa Hockeycoach developer and a CPA by

(01:15):
trade.
Before we jump into thiswonderful episode, I want to
give a shout out to our sponsors.
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actually this it crossed 50plus rings in the tri-state area
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So definitely check it out Ifyou're interested.
Take a look.
I am out in Aviator Sports inBrooklyn, in avi, the sport in

(02:23):
brooklyn, um, and today I have awonderful guest who I got a
chance to meet at a recently atour usa hockey coach developer
um retreat um pierre de bar, andjust to give you a little
introduction of pierre, he's adirector of cultural and high
performance.

(02:43):
A little introduction of Pierre.
He's a director of cultural andhigh performance, human
performance coach and holisticpractitioner, educator,
co-founder in the sportspsychology and mindfulness
technology app for hockey, andso much more, pierre, thank you
so much for jumping on the show.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, it's great to be here.
I mean, I love that we finallymade this happen.
It's good.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yeah, well, that's up here.
Maybe you could tell folks alittle bit about yourself and
what you do and I know I said abunch of things about you, but
you could probably do it better.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, I'm a little bit of a unicorn because I cover
a lot of terrain.
At the end of the day it'sreally there's two primary
businesses.
One is a neural performancecenter where we do a lot of
hands-on clinical work for bothpain recovery and performance.
That's both athletics and theaverage athlete person who's

(03:41):
recovering from surgery or youname it.
The other side of it is humanaccelerated performance and
that's the part that's morefacilitation education.
We not only do individualcoaching with players, we also
go in and help organizationalcoaching.

(04:01):
We help develop culture, reallyhow to help manage relationships
, high performance relationships, because that's where we find a
lot of organizations.
They want to be highperformance, they say they're
high performance, but then youlook under the covers and you
find out the relationships.
There's damage being done allover the place.

(04:22):
Relationships.
There's damage being done allover the place and that's a
piece where we continue to see.
The frontier of highperformance is in that
development of how we manage ourrelationships with self, others
and these environments we workthrough.
So that's really a whole thatcovers a lot of terrain, but we
can talk.
We can talk everything from.
But we can talk everything fromdevelopment on the

(04:45):
physiological.
We can talk about emotional andmindset.
We can talk about relationshipmanagement.
We can cover a whole spectrumhere.
It's really up to see wherethis goes.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
Wonderful.
No, this is pretty amazing.
I don't think I've had a guestyet who has been doing both
mental and physical attributesof this.
You know athletics, but beforewe jump into the details, I was
wondering if you could talk alittle bit about your athletic
background and what that lookedlike growing up.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
Sure, yeah, I was the youngest of four boys.
My dad was a.
He was an athlete himself and acoach, and a high school coach
both tennis and he was anathlete all through his life as
well, and it was just built intoour culture as a family.
We lived across the street froman elementary school in
Minnesota and right there we hadbaseball fields, soccer, tennis

(05:40):
courts.
In the winter we only had towalk 150 yards and we had an
outdoor hockey rink.
That was basically ourbabysitter growing up.
We just spent every winter dayin Minnesota out there, sub-zero
, you name it and so we spent alot of time there and that just
evolved my love of sport, andthat sport evolved into two

(06:02):
primary categories for myself,and that was in soccer and
hockey.
I ended up being recruited outof high school for soccer and
probably went further in soccerthan hockey.
Hockey is such a competitive,you know, field in Minnesota,
but my love of the gametranscended so I always played
hockey, no matter what, andthat's turned into you know, I

(06:24):
can probably.
I mean I don't even know howmany men's leagues games I've
played in over the years, but Istill play on three or four
different teams at elite levelsand high levels, and I train for
it Every week.
I train off ice, I train forhockey.
I get meant to use all mymental skills that I use with
athletes real time with myself.
So I try out all the stuff I'mdoing with myself and I'm still

(06:49):
at it, still at it, and I'mcoming up on 52 here.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
I love it.
You know it's interesting causeI do the same thing.
I play three or four times aweek.
You know myself as well ascoach and you know I noticed
that coaching helped me playbetter because I started
actually reading the game betterthan I've done before I started
coaching.
So when you're being coachedand when you're actually

(07:15):
coaching, it's almost like awhole new perspective and you
know you're learning somethingnew and I noticed that you know
some of the best coaches are theguys could just learn all the
time, like me and you who aredoing these seminars that's true
and you know what I I want tosay about the, even the adult
athlete, especially if they comefrom a background of athletics.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
You know that that student athlete I don't think
ever leaves, because I've found,even in my men's leagues, when,
when I, when I give suggestionslike pre game, you know this is
actually where a lot of some ofthis came from, the source of
it.
I had already been trained in alot of methodologies but I
started writing these hypnoticemails to my men's league before

(07:59):
big playoff games and guyswould be like I read that email,
I couldn't stop thinking aboutit.
I was so dialed in and sofocused before the game and I
couldn't wait to get to the rink.
And you know this is.
These are people that areworking professionals and they
still have it in them, thatathlete is within them and they
want that coaching, they wantthat guidance, they want that

(08:20):
focus and it's a part of themthat wants that compete and play
and never leaves.
No matter when you're youthstudent athlete in college, all
the way through, whether you'rea pro or not, there's a part of
us that always desires that playand compete and it's it's
mindful movement.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
It's really puts us in this very compartmentalized,
focused state, and I think thatpiece is what people really love
about sport yeah, absolutely,and and you know you mentioned
competitive, competitive natureor competition within the sport,
even at the adult ages, and Iknow you know, based on your

(08:59):
background, what you talkedabout.
You've coached you, you knowprofessional athletes from NHL
and NBA and MLB and NCAA andyou've also coached the little
kids.
What do you see as the biggest,I guess, mental difference
between you know, the youngathletes and the professionals?

Speaker 2 (09:22):
It really comes down to black and white versus gray.
You know the you, the, theteenagers, and that that
youthful years it's very blackand white.
It's up to it's up to us asadults to kind of fill in that
gray and create a lot of context.
As they move towards the older,into the 20s, you know that
that frontal cortex is fillingin, that communication network

(09:45):
is filling in, so you start toget more analytical at times.
I always say the youngerathlete, it's such a feeling
they're closer to just theexperience of being.
Where you start to get older,they get very caught up in their
head and their rumination andtheir thinking and it just

(10:06):
starts to compound in that thatdifference of identifying with
what I am in my head versus whenthey're younger they're just
experiencing life as it is and Ithink that is where the
evolution comes and where yousee this growth and mental
health issues is really, I wouldsay, just kind of the work I do

(10:26):
is help them get back into thebody, get back into the
experience of my body instead ofmy head.
So no matter what I meanthere's a mental skills which
has a whole industry around it.
I say it's really about thebody skills.
It's about getting back todeveloping my experience in my
body.
How can I use those bio rhythmsand information that my body is

(10:50):
sensing to really kind of bringme back to the moment, rather
than spinning out in the way I'mthinking?
So, personally, I just want tosay, to add to that it's kind of
the bot from the ground uprather than the top down.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
That's how I coach I love it and and you know
something you just said thatreally brought on a question for
me, um, where you said that youknow, the older you get, the
more you you get into your headright, the more you kind of um
start thinking or creating thosechallenges for yourself.

(11:27):
So do you think that the mentalstruggle that some of the older
professional players go throughis almost self-made, or
man-made, if you will, versussomething innate or natural?
That's a part of your character.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
I do something innate or like natural that's.
That's a part of your character.
I do, I, I really do, becausehere here's even working with
the the top you're talking thetop of the heap athletes they
will create, whether they,whether it's on ice, the on ice
piece might be there wherethey're having.
That's the easiest part.
It's the office, the life, therelationships, the management of
these other things.
That that is really where theywill evolve, as as that's where

(12:15):
they'll get their challenge.
Their real deep, powerfulchallenge is off the ice and
then they take it to the ice andyou'll see their performance up
and down.
But it's really how they'remanaging, no matter what they do
to prepare.
It's also that their life takesup so much more than just that
focal point of that sport, andthat's where you see a lot of

(12:38):
the challenges in the upperechelon.
Elite athletes is managing thatoff ice stuff.
Elite athletes is managing thatoff ice stuff and that's the
management of personalrelationships being a new parent
, getting married I'm seeing alot of athletes go through that
transition right now and thatcan, depending on how you manage
that, that can actually makeyou weak or can make you very

(13:00):
strong.
As you know, dad, dadstrength's a real legit thing.
So, uh, I like to say that dadenergy is uh, it's, it's a
superpower.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
It is a superpower if you want it to be yeah, I mean,
you know, if you're coachingand you're a parent and your

(13:31):
child is on your team, there'ssome sort of either favoritism
towards your own kid or theopposite the kid gets the most
boy and the kid gets the most,you know, the least amount of
attention because the coach istrying to avoid that um stigma.
Right, yeah, and I feel likeover the past 10 years, at least

(13:53):
where I am in my organization,that has evolved a little bit.
I'm still coaching teams wheremy kids are playing and you have
three kids playing.
You know the competitive levelall travel players.
Now the little one is in andI'm coaching two of the three
teams and help out wherever Ican with other teams as well.

(14:15):
If I'm there, I'll jump on andI'll help.
I love being a part of being onthe bench or being in practice
with other coaches because Isteal their moves and learn from
them.
So I'm always grateful andhappy to help out wherever I can
.
But I feel like that stigma haschanged over the past 10 years.

(14:35):
Have you noticed somethingsimilar in terms of, like parent
coaching and how it's viewed byyou, know, by the parents and
the athletes?

Speaker 2 (14:45):
Well, one.
I mean I would say what I myculture.
Growing up, I had a great modelin my dad and I looked at how I
brought that forward in my lifeand he just had fairness.
He was going to develop thosekids, no matter those kids that
were on the lower end of skill.
He was going to make sure theyhad as much time to develop

(15:07):
in-time games as the top players.
That was a really importantvalue of his, that fairness
piece.
So I tend to look through thatexperience, through that
fairness, and you will see thatthe ones that generally have
kids, they tend to manage thatprocess.
What I see is, overarching,that you'll see more of a

(15:31):
fairness approach, that they'renot trying to lean too hard.
You might see a littlechallenge with the kids, you
know, maybe a little.
You know tiny bit of challengetowards their child, tiny bit of
challenge towards their child,but overall what I've noticed in
the different organizationsI've seen is that there's a
desire for these parents toreally grow as a coach and as a

(15:53):
parent and if that's the case,then they're constantly evolving
how they're showing up as acoach and that's what I see.
I see that part of the industry.
Of course we all hear thehorror stories of surgeons and I
like to think that's just thosesmall little cases, but the
overarching is that we havepeople that are wanting to grow

(16:14):
and wanting to evolve with thesport.

Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah, absolutely, and that's a great perspective, I
think, talking a little bit fromthe view of the parent right
and I think, before we start thepodcast, you and I kind of
started touching on that alittle bit, on how you know the
parents and their energy impactsthe athlete but also impacts

(16:38):
the other parents around themand maybe the coach and just the
atmosphere altogether.
So maybe you could talk alittle bit about that and how,
um, how that works, how thatimpact carries through not just
to a single game but all, maybea whole season or further well,

(17:00):
let me.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
let me ask you a question and you, you can.
It's a.
It's a little bit of a riddleand I ask a lot of my classes
and when I work with groups, Iask this question when are you
seeing me?

Speaker 1 (17:15):
Okay, Say that again.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Where do you see me right now, or where are you
seeing me?

Speaker 1 (17:25):
I'm seeing you in a room through a computer screen.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
Okay, there you go.
Okay, that's one answer.
Could there be another answer?

Speaker 1 (17:42):
Well, I'm seeing you as a specialist in the area of
coaching and mental health.
I'm seeing you as a trainer,I'm seeing you as a coach.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
Okay, perfect, so these are normal answers.
So this is good.
Perfect, so these are normalanswers, so this is good.
Where you're actually seeing meis through your optical like,
through your lens, through anoptical nerve, the imaging
center in your brain.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
So where are you hearing me?

Speaker 2 (18:15):
I guess, through my, through your ears, through your
nerves in the auditory part ofthe brain, through your nerves
in the auditory part of thebrain, where are you
experiencing the clothes on yourbody, the chair you're sitting
in, through your sensory nerves,your skin, and it's being
processed in your brain.
So everything is happeninginside our brain Like what the
experience.
That's the processing centerand the number one influencer

(18:45):
into what that brain sees, whatit hears and what it's
experiencing is what we'refeeling.
So if we're frustrated andwe're angry and we're
overwhelmed or we got anxiety,what we see is different, what
we hear is different, what we'reexperiencing in our body, even
how food tastes, you start to gointo states of more courage or
more calm or more balance orpatience.

(19:08):
You know how do you see thingswhen you're impatient versus how
do you see things when you'repatient.
Same thing listening, talking.
So really that's the qualitiesof the heart.
So what we're talking about.
You're asking the question ofthe influence of the parents and
how a parent can support theirchild optimally.

(19:29):
And here's the thing the heartis 5,000 times stronger
electrically than the brain.
It's much greater electricallythan the brain.
It's much greater electricallythan the brain.
Anything electrical, has anelectromagnetic field.
That's how Wi-Fi iscommunicated, that's how radio

(19:50):
signals, everything'scommunicated through that
electromagnetic field.
Literally, how we're feeling isbeing broadcast into the
environment around us.
And how is that done?
Every feeling we havefrustration they've now have a
specific heart signature rhythmto frustration.

(20:11):
They've measured this soliterally.
When we're frustrated,everybody feels it.
If you've been in sport, youcan tell when somebody gets
frustrated and that one personwho gets frustrated can
overwhelm a whole bench.
A coach that starts to losetheir emotions, it can take over
a whole bench.
You talk about those momentumswings.

(20:31):
That's energy, that's emotion,that's a feel, tangible thing.
So now what science is showingis that literally what we're
feeling is influencing ourenvironment around us.
It's not what we're thinking,it's what we're feeling.
And that is where we see a lotof distress in the human being.

(20:52):
The number one stressor in thehuman is when the head is saying
one thing and the heart issaying something else.
I wish I would have said no andI said yes.
I wish I would have said yeswhen I said no.
Things like that, as simple asthat.
You know, I, I'm going to puton a.
You know I'm going to put on a,uh, a courageous.

(21:12):
I'm going to feel confidenttoday.
This is classic, for I want tofeel more confidence.
You're going to.
That confidence is a falseconfidence, because if you're
feeling overwhelmed, anxiety,worthlessness underneath, you're
kind of putting on this falsebravado and people can smell
that, people can sense that.

(21:34):
And so how do we get back totrain the system to tell the
brain really how to feel and howto process and that's working
with the heart, heart feelings,and we can.
Oh, there's a whole sciencebehind it, heart Math Institute,
which I'm a trainer for.
They're an organization out ofNorthern California.
They do all sorts of researchon the intelligence of the heart

(21:56):
.
I highly suggest that we cantalk about that for hours.
It's my passion.
Going back to the originalquestion, coach, is what we're
feeling, even as a parent.
If I get upset and I'mimpatient with the way my
child's playing hockey, I'mliterally influencing their
system, their heart.

(22:16):
We have direct access to thatchild.
They know us, we have a directfield environment to them.
So if we're upset, we'reinfluencing them.
It's really up to us parents tofind a way to make sure we're
regulating ourselves before wehave a hard talk with them after
the game, before the game,during the game all those things

(22:37):
how we hold ourselvesemotionally can really influence
that child, and science hasshown this.
Heartmath has done a bunch ofresearch around this.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
That's.
You know that's very deep and Ifeel like a lot of people
struggle with it.
So, if I heard you correctly,we are saying that feelings
drive experience, not the otherway around Experience doesn't
drive the feelings.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
Here's how the nervous system works in a
millisecond.
In a millisecond, the nervoussystem works heart to brain,
brain to gut.
That's how it works Boom, boom,boom.
So when people talk about gutinstincts, a lot of times
they're they're referencingreally hard instincts, the gut
instinct is.
So here's another question haveyou ever been in a situation

(23:29):
that felt unsafe?

Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
Okay.
So in that moment you feltunsafe, something felt off.
Then your head, caught up in amillisecond, said, started
looking around, goingsomething's off here,
something's wrong, and startlooking around.
Now my mind's catching up tothe information from my heart.
My heart's picking up on thisfield environment.
A person walks in that feelsunsafe.

(23:56):
You look and all there's aperson.
That's what our group.
Now my gut instinct kicks in.
Do I engage?
Do I step away?
Do I pause?
Do I help?
Whatever it is so literallythere's.
The nervous system works reallyquickly between the heart
rhythms, which, which are reallyregulated, um, whether they're

(24:19):
depleting or negative emotions,or positive emotions, they have
different signature feeling andthe brain's constantly going
okay.
So when I'm frustrated, itknows, it gets a signal from the
heart and says oh, I know thisrhythm, it's frustration, goes
through the memory banks.
This is what I, this is how Iact when I'm frustrated.
I get angry, I get aggressive,I shut down, I retreat, I get

(24:44):
silent.
And then what happens?
The gut kicks in.
If I'm in depleting emotions forlong periods of time, guess
what happens.
You pack on weight, you don'tprocess, you don't metabolize
well.
Maybe your GI system getsconstricted.
You know you're not eliminatingwell, or your hyper elimination
, whatever it is that all of asudden the organs start

(25:06):
operating differently.
So there's a, there's aspecific rhythm here, why it's
not just physical health, it's.
It's not just mental health.
We're talking.
Emotional health is at a rootof a lot of this high
performance environment.
How are, how are we managingour emotions and how can we do

(25:26):
that?
Because, again, the body'sgoing to respond to that.
How we experience our life.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
It's going to be really driven by that so, if so,
is there a way that we caninfluence how we are feeling, or
changing how we feel Like?
I'll give you an example.
There's a period, you know, 15,20 years ago, when, coming home
from work, I would work inManhattan, in the city, it was

(25:53):
about an hour commute home and Iwould fall asleep on the train
and I would wake up very groggyand frustrated and angry, right,
and we just had our first kidwith my wife, and I would wake
up very groggy and frustratedand angry, right, and we just
had our first kid with my wife.
And I would come home and Iknew that, you know, like a
hothead, I would go off thehinges if somebody said
something like the slippers werein the wrong spot and you know,

(26:14):
that's it, you know.
And so I came home and my wifeis, she's a child psychologist,
she's a counselor and she haslike two master's degrees, she
works in education and I'm veryhonest and open with her and you
know, thankfully, and they cantell her that, hey, you know, I

(26:35):
get really angry when I get home, so I need 20 minutes to myself
angry when I get home, so Ineed 20 minutes to myself.
And so she was like you know.
So, whenever I would come home,she would just kind of like let
me be, you know she wouldn'tcome.
You know, right as I walkthrough the door and just kind
of, let me come in, settle in,go down, then we'll sit down.

(26:57):
And that was going on for agood six months and then it
stopped.
You know, but I kind of I wasable to recognize that feeling I
was having but, I wasn't ableto actually control that feeling
, I wasn't able to change it in,you know, mentally, like just
forcing myself to feel differentI just had to manage it, almost

(27:21):
sure.
So when you work with likeathletes and in parents and and
folks, is there a way that youhelp them manage those emotions
and kind of gain more controlaround it?

Speaker 2 (27:33):
sure, yeah, absolutely.
Uh, you know we joke.
We joke in hockey sometimes,especially when I'm at hockey
director meetings.
With hockey, all roads lead tobeer league, you know, no matter
what it is.
You know I got a guy that justretired, he touched the Stanley
Cup, everything and he's playingmen's league now in Chicago,

(27:56):
right, so it kind of cracks meup.
Well, in the same vein, allroads lead back to the breath.
So the breath really expressesa lot of what's going on.
So when we go back to, how dowe begin to start anchoring
ourselves and managing ourresponses to the world, both

(28:18):
what we're thinking and whatwe're feeling.
And again, those are twodifferent questions.
What are you thinking, what areyou feeling?
Two different answers there alot of times, and actually
they've shown it's two differentinformation centers.
This process is information.
They've now found that theheart has its own ability to
think, feel, process information.
So they are two intelligentinformation centers.

(28:41):
The gut's another one has tonsof information.
That's broadcasting.
But when you look at itproviding those skills, some of
those are like what you justdescribed, I think of like a
thermostat setting.
It's like whatever set you offfor a while, whatever you got
fatigued, maybe you got overrunor you had too much on the plate

(29:01):
.
Whatever it was yourthermostat's saying, it was
probably set towards a littleoverwhelm, a little, probably,
who knows.
I mean it could be a couple ofthose things and sometimes those
undercurrents of emotions theyaren't really moldable in real
time.
It's like the real time, in themoment.

(29:22):
Emotions we can manage those.
It's the undercurrents, thelong-term overwhelm, the
long-term sadness and grief.
Those things sit there for awhile and those can't.
Those have to be managed.
The real time emotions I getfrustrated, I get short with
something.
Listen, that's on me.
I can manage that.
I can actually transform that.
So when kids or athletes haveperformance, they get stressed

(29:47):
before going into a big event.
Hey, let's not only reframe it,let's really look at how do we
harness that.
How can we just do somebreathing, check in with our
heart, acknowledge what we'refeeling.
I'm a little anxious, but howcan we move that feeling, using
the intelligence of the heart tosay, hey, what would I rather
feel?

(30:07):
I'd rather feel excited, I'drather feel courage, I'd rather
feel passion and joy.
Great, let's just breathe inour heart, take some breaths in
it's really imagine a time youfelt that.
Let's connect with that feeling.
Think of people that bring thatout in you.
You know, let's engage.
Can you make a sincere attemptto feel that?

(30:29):
And guess what?
Just that experience?
The breath, the heart shifting,the heart rhythms, the brain
gets the information and thebrain starts to put blood in the
front of the brain rather thansitting in the back of the brain
.
That's those old behaviors.
We want to get in the front ofthe brain.
That's what I always say.
Just neurologically, we want tokeep getting ourselves in front

(30:50):
of the brain.
So we got to get ourselves outof those old responses which, if
we're feeling depleted, it'llkeep us in the back.
Depleted, it'll keep us in theback.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
Right and so yeah, can you give an example of a
breath work one would do,especially?
You know, I hear a lot with alot of athletes at all ages, and
especially guys who aremigrating into beer league.
There are moments and I thinkwe all experience them.
Well, I don't want to call themthem depression, but it's like

(31:24):
moments of sadness and that theywill ask for a few days and
they're hard to kick.
You know, kick it to the curbor control it on your own.
So is there a breathingtechnique that you would
recommend to an athlete orsomebody who's transitioning out
of that professional, constantrigor schedule into more of a

(31:47):
luxurious, calm life?

Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yeah, that's funny, that's true, Because I've worked
with a lot of athletes andthere's been some serious
challenges were coming out ofthat high.
You know NHL players that areleaving a long career behind and
all of a sudden they're sittingat home, you know, and just all
of a sudden going what's goingon?
Right, concussions have done it, you know, retirement has done

(32:13):
it.
You name it Again the qualitiesof you can accept.
Sometimes you think you canaccept something in your brain
but your heart's not acceptingit.
You're in resistance to it.
You're not there yet.
And I think again, going backto that heart-brain connection,
when your heart's, your head'ssaying one thing I need to

(32:34):
accept it, but my heart's notready to accept it, you know.
So if I'm not ready to acceptit, what can I get to?
You know, how can I begin tomove this process?
I can't just jump from sadnessto joy.
That's too big of a jump.
How can I take these littlesteps in emotional, sort of
emotional steps, to sort of givemyself permission to work

(32:57):
through this process of grieving?
Really, because it's a grieving.
It's a grieving of a lifestyle,it's a grieving of an identity,
it's a grieving of anexperience that brought a lot of
meaning to these athletes andthat's a piece that anything
meaningful is heart.
That's the heart stuff, youknow.

(33:35):
That's the heart qualities,that's the heart stuff.
You, this technique I call the Utechnique and it's really just
think of the letter U.
You start on one end and youkind of circle down and come up
so that U technique reallystands for at the top.
You're basically thinking aboutsomething.
You're ruminating.

(33:55):
I'm ruminating about some issue, if you can acknowledge that,
wow, I've been thinking aboutthis issue for like two days and
it's just I'm thinking,thinking, thinking this is where
you use the you technique.
Come down, you drop down.
What am I really feeling around?
What I'm thinking?
I'm feeling sadness, I'mfeeling grief, I'm feeling upset

(34:17):
about this.
You know I'm irritated.
Okay, so you acknowledge whatyou're feeling behind that
rumination.
Now I'm at the bottom of theyou.
This is where the heart comesin.
Take some breaths.
As you breathe, you know,imagine the breath is flowing in
and out of your heart, thecenter of your chest, and as you
bring awareness to that part ofyour body, you start to access

(34:40):
that heart intelligence.
And from there you would askwhat would I rather feel?
And usually the heart gives usa texture.
It says you know, I want tofeel acceptance, I want to feel
willingness to let go, I want tofeel, you know, some compassion
for myself that I'm goingthrough this, some empathy, some

(35:00):
care, you know so.
And then, if you can justbreathe that in and work your
way up that you to the otherside of the you, now how am I
thinking?
Hey, it's going to be okay,it's going to.
I need to reach out to a friend, I need to call somebody and
just, you know, check in andmaybe have them make me laugh.
Or a buddy Like you see, how,just that small little exercise,

(35:21):
using some breath not doing boxbreathing, not doing all these
other performance breaths, just,really, just breathing and
bringing awareness to the heartand accessing that infinite
intelligence that and really theseat of our intuition is.
They've shown us the heart.
Yeah you know, this is great.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
And I really liked how you said you know,
specifically I caught the wordacknowledgement and
acknowledging the fact thatyou're feeling a certain way and
really giving it a minute, youknow, to kind of simmer and
understand what you're feelingand how you want to feel.
I feel like, you know,inadvertently, I mean, you know
I haven't thought about it inthis, in in terms of how you

(36:07):
just described it, or in thepathway, but I have kind of done
something very similar in overthe years in my personal life
and even working with kids,right right, if a kid gets hurt.
I had an instance a few weeksago.
I was working with little kidsand a kid fell and naturally
they went to the boards andtried to talk to their father

(36:31):
and the kid is just hysterical.
For a good five minutes I calledthe kid over and I'm like what
happened?
And I fell.
I said, okay, are you hurt?
Yes, where.
And then I fell.
I said, okay, are you hurt?
Yes, where, yeah.
And then I said, okay, breathewith me.
They just breathe through thenose, out through your mouth,
three times and just likefeeling better, you know.

(36:52):
And then we kind ofacknowledged it yes, it happened
, but you're a hockey player,you're tough, you, you're fine,
let's breathe together.
And the kid was ready to go andthen the father came over to me
after practice and goes what'dyou tell him?
How'd you?
What'd you say?
that he just stopped crying.
He said I just acknowledgedthat he's hurt.

(37:13):
You know, I didn't.
There was, you know therewasn't a confrontation.
It's like hey, get up and getit together, you know, and let's
go play, you know.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
Well, first of all, it's beautiful and you know you
think about.
Even in men's league I seesomebody get hurt, I'm the first
one.
I jump over the boards.
We're right over there.
I put my hand on them, just saytake a breath, you know take,

(37:44):
you know.
Breathe into my hand, just tobring awareness out of their
pain.
I want to bring up somethingright there.
I often ask this question andthese are some of my greatest
hits that I'm throwing out therewhat's the difference between a
hug and an embrace?
What's the difference between ahug and an embrace.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
I guess a hug is physical and embracing sounds
more emotional.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
Okay, cool, yeah, yeah, yeah, I like that answer.
That's a great answer.
So it's a little bit moreconnected, right?
I'm going to take it a stepfurther into physiology of
breath.
A lot of times when people hugand it's not uncommon they hug
and they hold their breath.
You know you hug and you mighteven hold somebody for 15

(38:28):
seconds and you let go andthey're like they start
breathing as soon as you let go.
Compared to an embrace, there'san exhale, there's a softening
of the heart.
You know an embrace is likesomething where you know you
think about embracing somebodybefore they cry, like it looks
like they're holding on, they'rein pain.
All of a sudden you hold themand they exhale.
And that embracing the emotionall of a sudden lets the emotion

(38:51):
come out.
Or, in this case, somebody'shaving an intense pain response
they're upset, their breath isreally constricted, they're
upset, their breath is reallyconstricted.
So giving them permission toacknowledge just the experience
and letting go and embracing thepain or embracing the emotion
really is a big part in thatexhale, exhaling out, just

(39:12):
allowing this, that breath out,to exhale and embrace the
experience.
I stubbed my toe a couple daysago.
I swear I broke it and in thepast, I would have held my
breath and just every you knowword would have come out of my
mouth.
I would have been red, and inthat moment I've spoken about
this so much I exhaled and Iimmediately embraced the

(39:35):
discomfort and pain and I wasable to work through it way
faster and continue on with myprocess and not I don't know not
disrupt my nervous system soacutely.
I was able to kind of like workwith it really quickly and
morph it, and then I think mybody didn't hold onto it as
intensely.
You know, I think that's thepiece of that.

(39:55):
Mental toughness is really, Ibelieve, coming back to our
brain, our breath and ourmanaging how we breathe in our
current situations.
And if we can manage thatbreath, we can manage our
nervous system, we can manageour heart, which is telling our
brain what to see, what to feel,what it's seeing, what it's
hearing, and hence that's thework I do with athletes and with

(40:20):
organizations it's helping eachother, giving even each other
feedback.
How do you give feedback whenyou're angry?
Well, that's not a good time togive feedback.
Sometimes you just got to setyourself, breathe, exhale, then
begin the feedback loop, right.
So all of a sudden that mightchange what you say, the words
that come out of your mouth, andeven how the person receives it

(40:42):
.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
Yeah, and that's such a great point.
And you know, as you weretalking, I was thinking about my
own experience, because youknow, that's really how we
perceive things, as youmentioned earlier.
Right, it's through ourselves.
When I started coaching, I wasvery loud and I would yell at
the kids, I would yell on thebench and I was, you know,

(41:06):
because I felt like I had toprove myself to everybody and
prove my spot, and it was allabout me.
It was all about winning gamesand I got great results with the
kids, but at the expense of umthat kind of like just rage you

(41:31):
know,and and just kind of anger
approach right.
And then, um, I think, a fewyears in it, there's other other
coaches, my friends and thedirector of my organization, and
I spoke to a lot of differentpeople.
I spoke to parents, you know,obviously family and I started
realizing there's got to be abetter way, because I didn't

(41:52):
feel good afterwards, when I gotoff the bench or when I left
the game.
I didn't feel good aboutwinning.
Yeah, I felt like, even thoughI got the result I wanted, but
it wasn't in a way that I wantedit.
It almost, you know, and a lotof times you feel guilty in that

(42:12):
situation.
And then and then the reasonwhy I thought of that is because
when you were talking aboutembracing, that's kind of what
changed it for me I embraced thefact that it's not about me and

(42:35):
whether I win or lose, that isnot a reflection of how good of
a coach I am or how good of aparent I am.
And as soon as that happened,that transition occurred, my
whole style changed Almostwithin weeks.
And, yes, I'm demanding and Itry to still discipline in the
kids, but it's not through therage, it's more through

(42:55):
connection, it's morerelationship and it's just a
completely different feeling.
And now, when I come off thebench, whether we win or lose, I
feel good because I connect, asopposed to force and push.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
This is so rich, that is rich with material that we
can break down.
That's beautiful, first of all,and kudos to you for being
willing to change.
You know it doesn't surprise me.
I mean, your energy is, youknow, it's very contagious,

(43:32):
first of all.
But you talk about embracing.
You know, embracing just likethat, just like that, that
exhale, it's like letting go,letting go of the tension,
letting go of the pressure.
You let go of the tension ofneeding to do something right.
You let go of that, youembraced.
You embraced the change, andwhat I hear from my lens and my

(43:56):
experience is you really gotconnected to your heart.
You were in conflict betweenyour head and your heart.
Your head wants to win, win win.
Your heart's saying no, thisdoesn't feel right, I feel
guilty.
I feel this doesn't feel right,I'm doing damage, or whatever
it is, to myself.
I can only imagine your nervoussystem probably really shifted
a lot after that change.

(44:16):
I can imagine just how yourcortisol works and everything
just sort of.
You know, it just was moreregulated, I guess.
But what you're talking aboutis really qualities of the heart
.
You change the way you listento your heart.
Your heart was screaming,saying it's too much, too much,
too much.
Your head's like no, no, no,okay, I guess I got to let go.

(44:40):
That's how I hear it.
That's how I hear it throughthe lens of the heart and brain
communication.
That's how I hear it.
That's how I hear it throughthe lens of the heart and brain
communication.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
That's great.
It puts so much in perspectivethat it kind of happened in my
eyes.
It just happened because of thecourse of action that occurred,
right, but listening to you andyou speaking to it, it all
makes perfect sense.
To you and you speaking to it,it all makes perfect sense.
And understanding that that'show we can go through

(45:08):
transformation to positiveconnection between heart and
brain, that will put us inbalance.
I feel a lot.
I feel also that drives you tohappiness, right.
And if you think about pursuitof happiness as the goal, right,
and you want to feel happy, youwant to feel accomplished and

(45:31):
acknowledged, and I think youpointed it out so perfectly
because if you have thatdisconnect between your heart
and your brain, you have animbalance and you cannot feel
that happiness, you feelfrustration and it's difficult
to manage that.
Do you think that somethingsimilar can be applied to

(45:54):
parents?
We see that all the time, rightIn the bleachers and in the
stands.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
I do and I don't want to lose this thought because I
think it's really valuable.
Yeah, I do and I don't want tolose this thought because I
think it's valuable.
What we do when we, when wedisconnect from that head, that
head, heart communication is,you know a popular term is
gaslighting.
We literally gaslight ourselves.
Don't feel that way, don'tthink that way, don't like, we
literally beat ourselves up anda lot of that you know.

(46:24):
You look at the mental healthcrisis.
That's why I say this is amental, emotional health crisis.
That communication system.
When we discount what we'refeeling and we try to override
it with our thinking, rightthere we're out of alignment,
we're creating dissonance.
And if that goes on longperiods of time, our body shows

(46:45):
that, our psychology shows it,or our natural lens of how we
view the world changes.
And I think that communicationsystem is so essential to
well-being and they've shownthat the autonomic nervous
system goes right through thatheart.
So what the heart's feeling?
If you're feeling depletingemotions, your autonomic nervous

(47:08):
system, it's like a inefficientdriving.
It's like driving with one footon the gas, one foot on the
brake.
You know, when you're feelingrenewing or more calm or
balanced emotions, your bodygoes into balance.
So where I'm going with that isas a parent.
We talk ourselves.
I'm a parent.

(47:28):
I got a 10 and 12-year-old.
My son plays hockey Like, trustme, I have good days, I have
bad days.
I'm not perfect at all and Iteach this and coach this.
And there's some days I have togo off into a corner and find a
way to regulate myself and getmyself into a place that I'm not
freaking out or not gettingupset, and a lot of things play

(47:48):
into that.
Other life experiences.
It's not just this, it's whatI'm carrying into the rink and a
lot of times are putting me inthose states.
I just think that, listen, yousaid a big word connection.
Connection's the heart.
It is.
How many times have you hadconversations and it's an

(48:11):
analytical conversation and youwalk away and it's like, oh,
that was interesting, butthere's like no connection.
You really are wanting to know.
That's a connection.
People feel that and as a child,they can tell when you're there
or not.
And as a coach, this is what Isee.

(48:31):
I'm going right.
I'm leaving tomorrow to workwith a Division I college
program and then work withcoaches and the coaching team
and here's the thing they feelwhen you're connected to them.
They feel when you care, theyfeel when you're in in their

(48:52):
best interest, and damage can bedone or resentment kicks in
when they feel like they don'tcare about you.
And that's the piece where theevolved athlete and where it's
going is really going to comedown to.
We're getting these intelligentyoung kids coming up and they're

(49:13):
they're more emotionally,social, emotional, aware,
they're being, they're comingout of a lot of upheaval.
There's more awareness aroundit in the overall arcing
education system.
We're going to have more awarekids and they're going to be
able to feel when you're thereor not, when you're distracted

(49:36):
or when you're actually trulylistening, and the greatest gift
you can give your child is justto know like, hey, I'm
connected to you, I'm here foryou, no matter what Good or bad
judgment, no judgment, I'm here,I love you.
I love watching you play.
They always say that's thegreatest thing you can say to
your child.
I love to watch you play.
Good or lose or win, just loveto watch you play, move, compete

(49:58):
, do your thing.
So I think that's where we gotto get back to and whatever it
takes to get there an exhale, abreath, check in with your heart
.
Really, is this necessary?
That's going to override thebrain and give a different
signal to the brain to say it'snot that important, it's not
that big a deal.
Put it in context.

(50:20):
But when you're upset, you'rein the back of the brain going.
This is the most importantthing in the world.
This is the most urgent thingin the world.
It is so important that's theold system work.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
Yeah, that's such a great analogy.
I really really enjoyed that.
I think you put that inperspective so well.
It reminded me of a scene inthe movie it's a Russian movie,
it's called Brother and there'sa scene where the guy comes to
America and he's walking, youknow he meets this lady, he's

(50:57):
talking to her, he's like whatdoes it mean when people say how
are you?
And she says you know, thatmeans they're asking you how
you're doing in Russian, likeshe translates it for him and he
goes like do they all want toknow how I'm doing?
And she says no, they just askyeah, and then you know they

(51:17):
brought that scene back to mebecause you're saying you know,
because how often do you pass bysomebody in the hall and go,
hey, how you doing, and keepwalking.
Often do you pass by somebodyin the hall and go, hey, how are
you doing, and keep walking,how often does that happen?

Speaker 2 (51:34):
This is one of our primary skills that we bring
into organizations and teams.
Is the check-in an authenticcheck-in?
Because how do you know howthis person's showing up?
How do you know your teammateWhether he can go to battle?
We jump into battle and startcompeting and then you know
somebody's throwing a stick atsomebody, somebody's crying in
the corner, pouting in the bench, whatever it is.
You could have got ahead ofthat just by checking in, having

(51:57):
a formal check-in process as ateam, like where are you on a
warrior check-in right now?
Oftentimes that gives you know.
It's not uncommon me checking inwith the high school team.
Half the team might be at 50%,maybe even a little down.
They got other things, they gotschoolwork, they got challenge.
They stayed up last night.
Things are rough at home,whatever it is.

(52:18):
That's how they're showing upand I'll have the team look
around.
Did you know that person wasfeeling that way?
No, no idea.
Can you support that person?
Yeah, I can.
Great, right there, you got theconnection.
Right there you show care andconcern for your fellow human
and that's compared to like hey,how are you doing?

Speaker 1 (52:41):
I mean how many?

Speaker 2 (52:42):
times, I still do it.
How are you doing Great?
Very transactional, nottransformational.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
Very true.
I actually recently had anexperience in the spring.
I was coaching Junior Rangersand I had a little kid who was
probably about four or fiveyears old and you know we're
going towards the end of thepractice.
He's obviously tired.
He starts crying I want my dad,I want my dad.
I was like, well, daddy'swatching you.

(53:11):
You're almost done, you got 10minutes, let's go, let's get
done.
He's like, no, I can't see him.
I can't see him.
I was like I'm sure he'ssomewhere around.
He could see you.
You, you know, I can't see himbecause he's, he's dead.

(53:31):
Hmm, and you know, obviously,you, you kind of a little bit
stunned.
When the five-year-old saysthat to you, it's again with
biggest hug and I said I'm surehe's still watching.
You know that let's skatetogether.
And so we finished all thepractice.
And, to your point, every singleone of these kids, whether
they're five or 35, they allhave a story that they deal with

(53:53):
.
And sometimes they show up tothe ice and we don't know which
way they're feeling or what'sgoing on in their head or their
heart.
You know where are they thatday?
And instead of asking, we kindof jump on their case and hey,
you're playing bad today, you.

(54:14):
You didn't pass the puck to me,you're not looking, you're this
right?
We escalating the situationbeyond what it needs to be
instead of being supportive,maybe in that moment because
that's what that person needs,and so it's so easy to forget
that emotional connection it'sbrilliant, that's brilliant and

(54:34):
it's so true.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
and that's again.
They feel that care and concern, right.
They feel that genuine desireto understand how they're
feeling.
And it might be the firstperson to ask him authentically
in a long time, even as an adult, because of that, hey, how are
you doing?
And it might be the first timethey're checking in with
themselves authentically in along time.

(54:56):
I find that to be the case too.
It's like wow, I haven'tchecked in with myself in a
couple of weeks even.
I've been just going, going,going, going going.
So, yeah, that's great stuff,that's really good stuff.
And you know that check-inprocess is one of the easiest
things you can do.
We actually have a project.
Hap has been working with USAHockey at the presidential level

(55:19):
, executive level, all the waydown to, you know, different
affiliates.
We work in New York.
Actually, We've got a projectwith the New York State Board of
Amateur Hockey and you knowthat's one of the primary tools.
We do is like, hey, check in,it takes about this much effort

(55:40):
and you get about that muchreturn because you're honoring
the humanity in each other.
If you can honor that humanityjust for a second, that that
immediately starts to begin thatbridging those disconnects I.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
I also feel like when you do something like that, it
makes you feel better as well.
You know, and a friend of mineand I actually had a very
interesting discussion aboutultra and being truly altruistic
, right, and being just beingable to give without anything in
return, and my point was thatthat doesn't really exist,

(56:15):
because when you do somethingnice for somebody, you feel good
about it, so you're doing it inreturn, you get the feeling of,
hey, I called somebody, Ihelped somebody, you know, and
so you know you're kind oftalking through the definition
of that word and what does itreally mean?
If it's like an ideologicalstate, it doesn't really exist,

(56:40):
but it's something that weutilize to just acknowledge
somebody giving something tosomebody without an obvious
reason of return.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
Yeah, well, you nailed it.
And what you're saying iswhat's happening inside your
body is hey, if I'm beingcompassionate to somebody else,
I am compassionate.
So my body's responding in aregulated state, my brain is
regulated, my cortisol, I'mreleasing positive hormones in

(57:13):
my system, my nervous system'sin balance.
So you're giving yourself agift by expressing compassion to
somebody else.
So it is ultimately somethingthat you're choosing to be and
in that being you're giving.
You know, you're sharingyourself, you're sharing your
vibe, you're sharing your care,whatever it is.
You're broadcasting thatexperience, and then you use

(57:35):
your words or whatever not.
So you're right on with thatman.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
Yeah, no, I appreciate that.
The one thing I know we'recoming up on the hour here, but
I didn't to go a little bitlonger here because there's so
much good stuff you're talkingabout.
I wanted to talk a little bitabout fear, because I feel like
the fear is the driver of a lotof negative emotion and rage and

(58:05):
the frustration that we seewith parents and even coaches,
where you're afraid that youwill be judged based on the
performance of your child rightor your player, and ultimately
that becomes the negative driverand ultimately that becomes a

(58:33):
negative driver in the way youdeal with people and the way you
deal with kids and speak.

Speaker 2 (58:47):
Have you had any experience where you're helping
folks and parents and athletesget through their underlying
fears and gain some of thatconfidence that we talked about
earlier?
Well, I think of a couple ofthings.
So let's go back to COVID.
When COVID happened, when COVIDfirst started taking over,
think about what they wereshowing on TV.
They're showing everybody'srunning to the grocery stores,

(59:09):
taking everything off the rack.
There's panic, panic, fear, allthat stuff.
Right, that's about the mostextreme unregulated emotional
experience you can have.
That's about the furthest pointof rage and panic are about as
far away from being grounded asyou can possibly be.

(59:31):
So you are being overwhelmed bya feeling and it's got you in
your most reptilian responses inyour brain.
And again now we're identifyingwith, with old behaviors, with
old uh needs and and and theneed to be accepted, the need
you know all that stuff comesinto threat and and I think

(59:54):
that's the piece whereacknowledging being able to,
being able to catch yourself,like a lot of times.
Here's the thing, here's thequestion.
Here's one really solidquestion that will help you walk
through the fear.
How do I know this is true?
Do I know this is true?

(01:00:14):
I like that because most oftimes I don't.
I don't know if this is trueright there, that question and
can alter the way you'reresponding to any environment.
How do I know this is true?
I don't.
That's usually going to be theanswer.
You know that catastrophicidealization where you're like

(01:00:35):
oh, that person hasn't.
I've texted them four times,they haven't responded back.
Oh, they must hate me,something like that.
Everybody's got that stuff.
Or that person doesn't like meanymore.
In reality they're probably busymost times or not, but you got
a fear like oh my God, I'mrejected or I'm in that primal

(01:00:57):
fear of being rejected is kindof at a core of a lot of that
fear base.
Your wife probably knows thisfrom a lot of her training, but
I would say, going back to it,it's when we can ask ourselves
thoughtful questions and have acouple of those core questions
we can just ask ourselves inthose challenging times how do I
know this is true?
Do I know this is true that allof a sudden forces blood to the

(01:01:19):
front of the brain?
Now our higher functioningbrain and our higher sort of
analysis can kick in and saywell, wait a second, what's
really going on here?
What do I need to do, becauseusually we're operating out of a
primal spot when we're in thatfear, and a lot of this goes
back to whether it's an athlete,whether it's a parent, whether

(01:01:41):
it's an organization, whetherit's an organization, it still
goes back to that indoctrinationof how can we train ourselves
to not let that keep me fromtaking a step forward, because
doubt's always going to pauseyou.
How can I acknowledge what I'mfeeling and then be able to take
a breath, step into courage andmove forward and ask a hard

(01:02:02):
question, go find information tofill in that gap of what I
don't know?
How can I go have a hardconversation and maybe do it,
you know, vulnerably, and buildthat trust with somebody and you
know, maybe, and deal with,maybe an answer I might not like
, but, you know, acknowledge itand work through it.
So I think there's a lot therethat you have to acknowledge

(01:02:24):
what's happening in your body.
First, I'm feeling tension, I'mfeeling stress, I'm feeling
upset, I'm feeling fear, likehow can I shift that?
A lot of times asking goodquestions, taking a breath, will
start to begin that process andmorphine to be able to take a
step forward into the fear, intothe concern.
That's where I'm coming from.

(01:02:47):
Is that helpful?

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
Yeah, absolutely no, this is great.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
We could have a whole book on this.
So there's a lot more to it.
I'm simplifying it to one tool.
There are a lot of other waysto manage that process, but
that's just one I would throwout there.

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
Yeah, it's wonderful.
Thank you for sharing that.
I think that thinking aboutbreathwork and I think that's
been the theme of a lot ofthings that you've been saying
and how practical that is inapplication tool that I feel
that folks need to start puttinginto their back pocket, whether

(01:03:26):
they're a parent on thebleachers or whether they're a
coach on the bench or maybe evenan administrator or, you know,
a ring staff or an athletethemselves in managing the way
that they approach theirresponse.
You know, and you know, I dothat in my daily work as well,

(01:03:46):
when I I work with people as aCPA and I do internal audit and
compliance work and there may bethings that feel frustrating to
me, and I just kind of take abreath, take a moment and calmly
discuss the issue instead ofkind of escalating it or getting
frustrated in that way.

(01:04:09):
So it's very professional andyou're trying to solve a problem
.
You're not trying to callsomebody out, you're not trying
to put blame on anybody.
You're trying to add value topeople and help them work
through issues and again, itgives you that gratifying
feeling that we talked aboutearlier, where you didn't come

(01:04:30):
there to reprimand, you camethere to become a team and help.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
Yeah, to me that sounds like your optimal self.
When you think about being anoptimal human.
It's a high functioning, highrelationship, high connection,
calm under pressure, beingstrategic, being able to problem
solve in real time.
It's what they call operationalcoherence, that ability to have

(01:05:03):
a calm system and a calm brainand and that's an optimal place
to be, and you're justdescribing it.
You just gave a bunch ofdescriptors of that optimal self
and, again going back to it,that's a feeling that that's
generating in that millisecondmy heart's feeling, something my

(01:05:24):
brain's following and my, mygut instincts are supporting
that.
So awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Well, I think we're gonna have to do another show
because we have yeah, I think sotoo, man, we got.

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
We got a whole other electrical energetic side we
gotta talk about in teambuilding and other things.
I mean, we could keep going onthis, of course, but we'll do
another one.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
I love it.
So, before I close out, Ialways like to do a little rapid
fire with a few questions, sowe'll start with the first one,
which is just what motivatesathletes.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
I'm going to say to evolve, to be on their cutting
edge, to experience themselvesin a new way.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
Nice.
Next one is if you could namethree character traits that you
notice in successful athletes,what would they be?

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
A desire to grow, a willingness to receive feedback
so they can change theirbehavior, change their skill and
, I think, just a desire, awillingness to do the hard work
Chop wood, carry water.

(01:06:47):
They're willing to get up anddo the hard work when others
might not.

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
Love that.
Totally agree with it.
And the last one here is if youcould name three things that
can hold an athlete back, whatwould they be?

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
When they become egocentric, when they become a
lot just themselves rather thanthe group.
The group is what can make thema super athlete.
Another is when they blameothers, when they become a

(01:07:26):
victim and ultimately, when theybecome a bully, like when they
have bully behavior and it'sit's within all of us and
something.
When we get tired, lonely,angry, tired, all those things,
we, we go to those old behaviors.
So I sit there and go.
When people start to blame,become a victim and then they
start to become a bully, thoseare sort of the ones that really

(01:07:46):
will hold people back fromevolving.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
You know, that really resonated with me personally,
because I've actually recentlyhad a conversation with my kids
where you know, if I asked oneof them to do chores and he's
like, well, he didn't do it, mybrother didn't do it, and so you
know, I had a wholeconversation about them taking
ownership of their ownresponsibilities and not

(01:08:12):
worrying about what somebodyelse did or did not do.
And the more ownership you take, the more growth you're going
to get.
I always tell the kids when Icoach, I like to tell them that
you never want somebody else tosteal your mistakes.
Own your mistakes, that is, ownyours and all your buddies next

(01:08:35):
to you.
And the more you take on, thebetter you're going to get,
because if you don't have aproblem to solve, you're never
going to grow.

Speaker 2 (01:08:43):
You're never going to get better, because you need
something to, to solve you need.

Speaker 1 (01:08:47):
You know, if you're perfect as is, then there's
nothing else to do.
Right, where are we going?
You could just keep doing whatyou're doing, but if your own
mistakes and be might not beyours, but you could still take
it on and change it and dosomething different, even if you
weren't on the ice or youweren't in the game at the
moment where the goal was scoredor something happened.

(01:09:10):
What could I have done?
Yeah, what did I see?
What can I do?
How can I help?
You know the guys that were onthe ice, you know what can I
change.
And when you take ownership, Ifeel like that gives you growth
and ability to really expandyour range.

Speaker 2 (01:09:30):
Yeah, and that's the antidote to being a victim and a
bully.
The antidote is owning it,owning your experience, not
putting it on others, notwilling it, but you taking
ownership of that.
Yeah, I couldn't agree more andthat's part of that, that's
part of that transformation, andI would say ownership is

(01:09:51):
probably, you know that would bea good answer and you know it
makes successful athletes they,they own their development yeah,
love it, sweet man this isgreat.
I really appreciate it.
What a great.
I mean again, time flew.
We could talk for hours aboutthis stuff.
Yeah, I really appreciate it.
What a great.
I mean again, time flew, wecould talk for hours about this
stuff yeah, I absolutely love itfor those folks that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
uh, thank you everybody for tuning in and
listening and, uh, please doshare the podcast uh around.
I appreciate, um, spreading theword and the purpose of this
podcast.
It's absolutely free, so pleaseshare it.
Hopefully it resonates withfolks and helps people deal with

(01:10:31):
some of the mental and physicalissues that they're going
through, and hopefully we can bea part of that.
If you guys have questions forPierre Pierre, where can people
find you?

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
Yeah, yeah, the Mental Skills Coach on Instagram
.
You also can find me, pierreDebarra, on Facebook.
I think I'm the only PierreDebarra Maybe there's another
one on there, but you'll see myface and then haptrainingcom.
You can go to haptraining andsee what we're doing as an
organization to support arelationship, and you can find

(01:11:08):
us there, or find me there aswell.

Speaker 1 (01:11:11):
Wonderful.
Again, pierre, thank you somuch for joining me today.
We'll definitely scheduleanother one.
Thank you everybody for joining.
I did want to, just before wesay bye.
I did want to mention I justdid another one of these Hockey
Helps 24-hour tournament in DixHills.
They're wonderful with alumniand I think we raised over

(01:11:32):
$500,000 this year.
So if you'd like to donate to agreat cause they support
suicide prevention, cancerresearch, a lot of charities for
the kids, so definitely givethem a look on Instagram.
You could donate on the kids.
So definitely give them a lookon Instagram.
You could donate on theinternet.
It's Hockey Helps and they dothis 24-hour marathon, which is

(01:11:53):
pretty spectacular.
So take a look.
It's a wonderful thing.
Well, thank you again.
This is absolutely great.
I got some folks saying thankyou for the new perspectives.

Speaker 2 (01:12:11):
You bet.

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
And so we'll definitely have a rendezvous at
some point.
Thank you so much, Pierre, andthank you for joining.

Speaker 2 (01:12:19):
You're welcome.
Okay, see you soon.