66: Unleashing Greatness: Leadership Lessons from Business, Sports, and Parenting

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Have you ever wondered what drives the most successful leaders in business and sports to push beyond their limits? Join me, Coach Ilya Podolskiy, as I sit down with executive coach and entrepreneur Laurie Clarke to explore this fascinating intersection. We uncover the intrinsic motivations and shared goals that propel leaders and athletes alike toward greatness. Laurie shares her vast experience working with companies of all sizes, offering insights on how effective leadership in both arenas is anchored in intrinsic value and collaboration, beyond just financial gains.

Our discussion takes a heartfelt turn as we talk about parenting and coaching in youth sports. Laurie reflects on her personal journey with her athletic daughter and strategically minded son, emphasizing the importance of recognizing and nurturing each child's unique strengths and interests. We dive into the emotional nuances of youth sports, highlighting the critical role of being present and fostering open communication with young athletes. Through real-life anecdotes, we discuss managing emotions and the impact of feedback on nurturing children's growth, underscoring the essential balance between guidance and understanding.

Finally, we explore the complexities of team dynamics and the pervasive influence of ego in high-performance settings. From personal stories about volleyball games to the challenges faced by both small startups and large corporations, we dissect how communication shapes team culture and effectiveness. Laurie and I share practical strategies like visualization and meditation to promote a growth mindset and mitigate the impact of egos. This episode is packed with insights for coaches, parents, and business leaders aiming to enhance their leadership and teamwork skills.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Thank you, we'll be right back.

(01:17):
Good evening, ladies andgentlemen, and welcome back to
the Podolsky Method Podcast.
I'm your host, coach OlyaPodolsky, level 5'm your host,
coach elia podolsky, level five.
Usa hockey master coach.
Creator and host of thepodolsky method podcast.
Owner and operator of a skisharply shop called sharp skate,
new york.
Um, I'm a usa hockey nationalcoach developer and a cpa by

(01:42):
trade.
Um, I'd like, before we jumpinto our show as usual, I'd like
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(02:51):
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And, lastly, I'd like tomention sagaciousmindsorg, which
is an all-for-profitorganization that I'm involved
with that does a lot of greatthings for kids', education and

(03:14):
sports, so give them a look.
Today I have a wonderful guestwith me, lori Clark, and Lori is
a facilitator, a coach and anentrepreneur.
Lori, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
Thank you, it's great to be here.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
Awesome.
Maybe you could kick it off byyou just tell folks a little bit
about yourself and what you do.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, so I am an executive coach and I work with
companies to help them designbetter organizations, customer
experiences, employeeexperiences so I work with teams
a lot in my professional life.
I'm a mom of two athleticchildren, so that keeps me quite

(03:55):
busy.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah, and so I know before the show I noticed you
worked with some really bigcompanies.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
I think I saw ebay, maybe walmart and e-commerce yes
, some really large companiesand small companies.
So the range of companies Iwork with would be small
founders, startups all the waythrough to these fortune 10
companies, and the challengesare very different with the
teams at the various stages, butpeople are people and teams are
teams.
So it seems to apply.

(04:30):
It just needs a little bit moreinfluence and leverage to make
the big ones work like clockwork, as you would a small one, as
you can imagine.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah, I mean, I'm a CPA by trade and I do SOX,
compliance and internal audit,but it's my day job and my
second life is coaching andeducating folks around, being a
parent of an athlete or being acoach, and so I definitely

(05:04):
understand the crossoversbetween the professional
environment and the drive thatcomes with that and the drive
that comes from sports right,and the competitive nature.
Can you talk to me a little bitabout your experience?
When we talk about these largecompanies and working with CEOs

(05:24):
or staff of these firms, howdoes that translate if you think
about it in terms of like asports metaphor, in the sense of
you know the drive and how doyou push them to achieve things
that they might not think theycan?

Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
So.
They're very similar and thehigher you go in an organization
, the more I see the samemindsets and attitudes that I do
with these competitive athletes.
So the higher you go, it's moreintrinsic motivation they want
to achieve, they want to see thepotential they want to achieve,
they want to see the potentialthey want to leave a legacy,

(06:07):
they want to do something that'sbigger than themselves, it's
for their team, and you see thatkind of as you go further down,
maybe as you kind ofsports-wise, less competitive
sports you see people who maybedon't have that.
They need more extrinsicmotivation.
They do it for the money.

(06:28):
They do it, you know, fordifferent reasons and you see
that in.
I see that in sports as well.
It's sort of you start seeingthis separation of people who
are driven to find thatpotential and people who are
happy for someone else to directthem potential and people who
are happy for someone else todirect them.

(06:49):
So I see that definitely playout in both.
But, just like in business, notall leadership styles and types
are created equal, and so I seethat as well, where you see
coaches and parents having aninfluence on athletes that
create a different style of whatwill eventually show up in a
workplace as a particular typeof leader.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
I've been in the professional industry for over
20 years now and I realized thata huge driver for me is being
in this collaborativeenvironment where I feel valued,
where I have, as you said, someof that value coming in, where
I know that my work actuallyhelps progress.
The company forward actuallyhelps progress.
The company forward helps thefolks around me who I work with,

(07:47):
makes their job easier in asense, and that makes me feel
better about what I do, asopposed to just getting a
paycheck, for example, eventhough, of course, it is
extremely important it does putthe food on the table.
Uh, it is extremely important.

(08:07):
It does put the food on thetable, yeah, but but just, you
know, intrinsically,understanding and and
internalizing that I think is soimportant.
And I think we don't give a lotof credit to, um, when we talk,
when we transfer that to, uh,youth athletes, um, sometimes we
kind of try to impose ourselveson them as opposed to allowing

(08:28):
them to have that intrinsic, youknow, value add feeling.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
Absolutely and to your point.
You know, you look at employeeengagement in a company, and
employee engagement specifically, is higher when people feel joy
at work.
And so you dig into what doesit mean to have joy at work?
And what it shows is that whenpeople feel like they are making

(08:57):
progress on meaningful work andmeaningful work is defined by
contributing to the companystrategy or contributing to a
customer experience directlythat brings them joy they're
more engaged.
And so when we think about thatin youth sports, often we drive
an individual to be best attheir position, that they're

(09:19):
constantly being the best, whichis not a bad thing, being the
best, which is not a bad thing.
But it sometimes takes awaythat joy, that meaningful aspect
of working with your team.
And how do I actuallycontribute to help somebody not
in my position or not directlyrelated to me, maybe somebody
who doesn't get as much playtimeas me?

(09:41):
How is that actuallycontributing to that feeling and
that engagement as part of ateam, not just me as an athlete?

Speaker 1 (09:50):
awesome and so you know, maybe you could kind of
switch a little bit to your kids, because I know you started
kind of talk right before theshow.
We started talking about, uh,the different dynamics with your
son and your daughter.
Right, and your daughter youmentioned plays volleyball at
pretty high level.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?

Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah.
So she started playingvolleyball when she was 10 in
COVID and wanted to get her intosomething and she was willing
to go play in a freezing coldwarehouse here in Toronto and
she ended up falling in lovewith it and plays club, she
plays for her school, she playsindoor, she plays beach, so we

(10:32):
don't really get a break fromvolleyball.
And she played for Team Ontarioand in the summer games last
summer and she her team won gold, which was pretty exciting for
her.
So she plays probably ascompetitively as you can for her
age group here in Ontario.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
Awesome, and I know you mentioned that your son,
even though he's extremelyathletic, chose not to do sports
.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah.
So he had an opposite thingduring COVID where he went
really into gaming and he youknow he is naturally athletic,
picks up every sport very easily.
He's lean, he's tall,everything.
My daughter wishes she was forvolleyball, um, and he has

(11:22):
doesn't have that drive, thatdesire to play and put those
skills into a game.
So it creates a little bit oftension in the house where she
has to work very hard foreverything that she achieves in
her sport.
And he, um has this raw naturalability where all the people
see him and say, oh, come playthis sport, come play this sport

(11:44):
, um, but he doesn't come playthis sport.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
But he doesn't do anything with it.
And I guess, if you stay withthat thought for a second, did
you ever have the inkling topush him into sports or maybe
even like, in a sense, force himinto an athletic path?

Speaker 2 (12:10):
so when he so, when he was really young, I made them
do everything so they had they,they were that was easy though
they.
They were at the age where theyjust pretty much did what they
were told.
And now I encourage and I openup all the different aspects to
him.
He can do anything he wantsfrom a development or a league
or a house league, but I haven'tforced it.

(12:34):
I don't think you can tensionon your relationship and you
become the person that'sfighting them every week to go
to practice, fighting them everyweek out the door, and I just
personally don't feel like Ihave all that much time with him

(12:55):
where I want to expend all ofthis negative energy over
something he's not going to donaturally and on his own
volition anyway.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yeah, and that's a great point.
That's actually why I asked youthat question is because you
know, forcing somebody to dosomething you want them to do
sometimes is you know, most ofthe time I would say is probably
a bad idea.
You know, and I'm really gladyou mentioned the relationships

(13:26):
because it definitely does put ahuge strain.
Even when the child wants to bean athlete and wants to
participate in sport, theyalways have moments where
they're tired and and kind of,you know, grinded down and
fatigued and and burnt out alittle bit and they just don't

(13:46):
want to do it anymore.
And those are the moments whereyou kind of push them through
that.
But that's because you knowthat they intrinsically want to
be an athlete, they want tocontinue to play the sport, and
it's just a moment in time thatis just tough.
You're going to get to a toughmoment.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
But if the person has no interest, and pushing them
into something they don't likeor something they don't want
definitely creates resentmentyeah, and our time with them is
so little and if you're going,if I'm going to use up the
influence I have, it's not goingto be on that, right.

(14:23):
Yeah, need you to be kind, Ineed you to be respectful.
I need there's so many otherthings I want to be able to
instill with you.
I don't want you to him to lookback and say, oh, remember
those epic fights when youforced me to go play soccer?
Um, yeah, which is, by the way,probably what he would remember
.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
Right.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
Great point.
And so let me ask you, if I may, somewhat of a personal
question in terms of do you feelcloser to your daughter because
she's an athlete and you canconnect with her that way and
you don't have that with yourson, or does that not really
matter?

Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yeah, I think you have to meet kids where they are
, and I think you the one thingI've learned about parenting and
maybe it's there's twodifferent styles I have found.
There are the parents that sayI'm going to shape you into who
I want you to be, and there'speople who say I'm going to tend
to whatever you are, so thatyou are the most that you can be

(15:26):
, and I've always tried to bethe latter one, where she's an
athlete and she's extremelydriven.
She's at the gym every morningbefore school.
She plays school volleyball.
She played a school volleyballgame today, grabbed something to
eat, did her homework and is itpractice eight to 10 tonight.
So she, that's just who she is.

(15:47):
She's very disciplined, she'svery uh and he's just not.
And so I I feel like I canconnect with them differently,
but only if I meet him where heis.
So do I see his gaming is verystrategic.
If I stop and pay attention.
He's running teams, he'sdesigning things, he's building

(16:09):
strategies to win these games.
He's bringing five or sixpeople he may or may not even
know along with him.
If I can sit and look at that,then it gives me an ability to
bond with him differently.
You know it's do.
I wish he was more physicallyactive, for sure, but I think

(16:30):
that's different, right?
So it's harder, though I thinkI will add this I get a lot of
car time with Olivia, so I getto spend a lot more time
speaking with her about her dayand her life and everything.
So that does give us a lot moretime speaking with her about
her day and her life andeverything.
So that does give us a lot ofcloseness that I have to work

(16:50):
harder to get with him.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
That's great.
I'm really glad you broughtthat up because I think that you
know that kind of resonatesthrough all the episodes that
I've done so far.
You know that car rides home,car rides to the games and how
important that is.
And a lot of folks take thatfor granted and I'm guilty of

(17:13):
that too.
When you come out of a bad game, when you're frustrated and
you're just venting and then youkind of remember okay, that's
not what you want to do.
You want to let the athletekind of remember okay, that's,
you know, that's not what youwant to do.
You want to let the athlete,you know, kind of drive that
conversation.
But you know, I think it is acritical moment in time and even

(17:33):
now when I talk to folks whoare coaches and parents
themselves, they say, oh, youknow, I always remember those 6
am wake-ups and games andtournaments and that's the part
that kind of stays, stays in theback of your brain.
And you know, I'm really gladyou also mentioned um, meeting
the kids where they're at,because that seems to be the

(17:55):
theme that keeps coming up in alot of the episodes that we have
and making sure that you'remeeting your kids at where they
are, and I have three boys andthey're all very, very different
, even though they have the sameroles and they all play hockey.
But their personalities arejust so very different and the

(18:16):
conversation and the way I talkto them just tends to be very,
very different.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah, and you know, it's actually one of the things
Olivia says she appreciates.
I don't know anything about hersport.
I'm still trying to learn it.
I don't know how to play it.
I don't coach her on the sport.
I coach her on the sport afterevery game.
So she looks disappointed.
I assess where she's at.

(18:47):
Even if they've won, even if Ithink she played well, even if
everyone's telling her sheplayed well, she didn't think
she played well.
And so me trying to convinceher oh, but it was good and you
played well and you won the game, it's not helpful, right?
So I see she's disappointed andI will express oh, you seem

(19:08):
disappointed about this game.
And she'll say, yeah, I wantedto practice this technique and I
just couldn't do it.
Even once I go oh, you know,that's really disappointing.
You know, is there something youcan do to change for the next
game, Even though she playedwell?
Is there something you can doto change for the next game?
Even though she played welltechnically and they won, in her

(19:31):
mind she set a goal.
And it feeds distance with youwhen you negate that feeling she
has, because I don't knowwhat's going on, I don't know
what she set with her coach.
I don't know what she setpersonally, and it opens a
dialogue in a way.
I would have shut down if I saybut you played so well, you
know she would have just lookedat me and gone silent and walked

(19:53):
away, and I see that happen somany times, Right, and I don't
understand.
She played well, it's.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
They're thinking something very different when
they're on the court or you know, whatever sport I'm imagining,
it's the same yeah, and and Ithink that goes back to our
credibility, right and asparents and um, we used to
always.
I still coach with with um afew older gentlemen who you know

(20:23):
helped me develop throughout mycoaching career, and one of
them has always told me he saidyou know, if it wasn't a good
game, why are we coming off theice and telling kids good job?
Yeah, he's like.
I don't understand.
Every parent right up by thedoor we lose like 15 to 1.
We played terrible, it was, youknow, just just the worst game

(20:47):
ever.
And everybody just stands thepounds because good job, good
job, good job.
And then, you like, they walkinto the locker room, the
coaches walk in and be like thatwas a terrible game.
Guys like, yeah, you know, like.
And then they, they done, theychange, they come out of the
locker room and again theparents come in and go good job
guys yeah, I mean I, I don'tthink the parents should be

(21:11):
overly critical about a bad game, but empathetic, right, could
you imagine.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
And you wonder.
They go into the workplace andthey're like you know, hey,
where's my good job?
Well, no, you missed thedeadline and you lost all this
money.
It's not a good job.
You're not getting your bonus.
It's.
It's shocking for them, right,it's about reality setting to
some degree.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
Yeah yeah, you're absolutely right it and you know
that's exactly where you'reabsolutely right and you know
that's exactly where we're kindof going to go in terms of you
know how it translates to reallife and I think the youth
sports is not, is not.
The purpose of youth sports isnot to create professional
athletes.
Yes, we get professionalathletes as part of the process

(21:56):
great, but there's so far andfew in between who become
professional athletes.
But even those that don't, theybecome professionals and they
can.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yes, yes, and parent and parents and anything that
will pay this forward.
Right, and it's and it's um,it's fascinating to me when you
see the different style ofcoaching and parenting and you
can see the team culture.
I don't know how to, I don'thave to know the game I can see

(22:29):
the team culture and one of thethings with this you know good
job, let's go.
I call it giving Valentines.
So a couple of years ago, myson said I'm not sending
valentines to school, I'm justnot giving them.
And my immediate reaction wasyou're going to be the only kid.
The teacher's going to ask mewhat's happening.

(22:49):
You got to take valentines.
Okay, that's what we're doing.
And he said okay, well, I'm notgiving valentines to everybody
in my class.
And I said so, canada, we areinclusive, a hundred percent.
You have got to give aValentine to absolutely every
kid.
And he said no, not doing it.
And I went very I had to checkmy I was you have to just do

(23:12):
this for me, because the parentsand the teachers are going to
give me a hard time.
And then I stopped and I saidwhy don't you want to give
Valentine's?
And he said because you're thebest, you're so great.
I like you, you're fantastic.
And he said some of the peoplein my class aren't nice, some of

(23:32):
them bug me every day.
They pick on me for a whole lotof things and I don't want to
send them something that saysyou're the best, you're so great
.
And so I stopped for a second.
I went okay, fair enough.
And so we ended up doingsomething where he could think
of something he appreciatedabout each kid, even if he

(23:53):
didn't want to say you're thebest for this particular kid, he
said.
He didn't want to say you'rethe best for this particular kid
.
He said you know, you write themost amazing stories.
Truth, you're not the best perse in my opinion, but you do
write really good stories.
And I find and I don't know ifit's in all sports, but
specifically in volleyballyou'll hear the team say to each

(24:14):
other nice up, great serve,you've got this, let's go this
that the parents doing the samething on the side, but what
they're not getting is veryspecific feedback.
It's actually not goodcommunication.
It's valentine's.
You know, you're just throwingvalentine's.
Hey, the bully over there, goodjob, or like you missed 16
serves in a row, but that onewas fantastic.

(24:35):
Right, it's about teaching kidsto give that very specific
feedback, to accept it and togive it that's anchored in a
reality, where you're not justthrowing valentines at them.
You're giving them somethingthat's tangible, that's usable.
You have to teach them how toaccept it and you have to teach

(24:56):
them how to give it in arespectful way.
But I think that's a huge thing.
I noticed in this sport thatmakes a difference between a
team that connects andcommunicates while they're
playing and one that's justthrowing around valentines.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
And maybe you could take this step further into the
professional world and talk alittle bit about how that
transpires in a corporateenvironment.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yeah.
So we see that all the time,right when, especially if you
have a conflict adverse managerwho's telling everyone they're
doing fantastic, you end upgetting the end of the year kind
of results are in and nobody'sgetting a bonus and everyone's
surprised by it.
You have people who arefrustrated because almost

(25:43):
everybody wants to come to workand do a good job.
I haven't met very many peoplewho specifically come and say
what ruckus can I create today?
And you're doing a disserviceto them if you're not very
honest about their skills andwhere they need to develop and
maybe they're not in a positionthat they're good at.
Nobody wants to come to workevery day and be terrible at it,

(26:05):
right.
So if you have theseconversations where you're very
specific and you give them thefeedback and they're unable to
take the feedback and change,finding them a spot where
they're better matched to theirstrengths is the kind thing to
do.
And what we see in teams sooften is people end up talking
behind other people's backsabout this person who's not good

(26:28):
, or they end up just nevergetting their bonus and getting
frustrated and trying to figureout where they went wrong.
But generally people will sayto them you did a great job.
We see this even in customersurveys, where you know you get
a 10 out of 10.
Would you, would you leave thiscompany?
No, I'm, I'm unlikely to leavethe company.

(26:51):
But then when you go and youstart asking the why, it's like,
well, I'm not leaving thecompany because I can't afford
to leave it, right, like it'stoo expensive to leave.
So you start seeing that we'rejust when we give that glossy
kind of picture the Instagramgloss, I call it.
You're really not getting ahigh-performing team and

(27:13):
individuals are never able todevelop to their full potential
and they want to Generally.
They want to right.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
So I think it works in both very similarly yeah, no.
And that's such a greatcrossover there, because I feel
like you can't fix a problem youdon't know you have yeah, and
how horrifying.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
You're all over there talking about how incompetent I
am, but nobody's willing togive me the feedback, to tell me
what I need to do to fix it.
Yeah, it's like I'd like to dobetter, it's uh, but you see
that in sports.
I see that in sports a lot tooright, or they?
Say oh, you're so amazing.
No, they're not.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
They they can't block and they can't hit, and their
whole job is to block and hityeah, and and you know, like in
sports, it's very interestingbecause it's exaggerated in my
mind like, and one day you'll bethe best player, um, you know,
on the ice or in the, in thegame, and then the next day you
could be the worst.

(28:21):
It's so weird.
And it's weird, but it's alsovery good to experience it at
that level, because when you'rea young athlete and you go
through the spectrum of, hey, Ihad a great game today, and then
the next day I had a terribleone, and then you could be like,
well, let's take a step backand let's see why was this a

(28:43):
really good game?
Why was this a bad game?
What did I do here?
What did I not do here?
Or what did I do that caused abad game to happen?
Maybe I need to eliminate someof the things.
So you're a little moreconsistent to eliminate some of

(29:03):
the things, um, so you're alittle more consistent.
Um, but to your point, it's notto just come out and say,
hoorah, you know, good jobshowing up, but it's actually
telling them hey, you know, thatwas really good, but this
wasn't, and yeah, specificallyLike, like my daughter had a
tournament on Saturday and I sheserved into the net four times.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
You can't serve into the net at this level, like
what's going on, you know, andshe's like my, I tweaked my back
and it really hurts and I can'tget that full rotation.
I said, well then we need tobook physio Because you can't
serve into the net.
But she knew partway throughthe tournament when she tweaked

(29:52):
her back and she couldn't getthat full rotation, she knew why
.
But yeah, I was like that's nota good job, that was terrible.
Um, but yeah, I was like that'snot a good job, that was
terrible.
I was in the stands going Idon't know whose daughter that
is.
Um, yeah, but just, even that'sanother thing.
I find that's very, um, a goodcrossover, if I can.

(30:15):
It's just on the on the point ofmeasurement.
I always say in business whatyou focus on grows and what you
measure is what gets focused onright, and so when we measure
the wrong things in theworkplace, we incent the wrong
behavior or we incent the rightbehavior and if we do a win at
all cost thing.

(30:35):
We've seen a lot of that in thenews.
We tend to incent the wrongbehavior and we do that in
sports as well If we measurewins and losses, even if we
measure in individual successand failure.
So I know sometimes coaches involleyball will give them pluses
and minuses.
If you've got more pluses, youget more court time.

(30:56):
If you've got more minuses, youget less court time.
Get more court time.
If you've got more minuses, youget less court time.
And I always I just I wonderwhat we're doing with that?
Right, because we do that in theworkplace and what we get are
these kind of sales, toxiccultures, these kind of when
we're talking about investmentmanagement kind of cultures that
we've seen in the past.
You're competing against eachother, you're not competing

(31:17):
against the competition, and soI think measurement's really
important, and if I gave mydaughter her serve percentage or
her pass percentage, I thinkit's great that she works to
increase those, but it can't beat her doing it to the expense
of another teammate, becausethen they try to jockey for

(31:39):
who's got the best plus, youknow, in the game, instead of
saying how do we elevate theentire team?
And so one of the things I'veseen done well is when they take
those measures for each of theplayers, for their position,
because there are differentmeasures for the position for
their team and then teams thatthey aspire to be like and say

(32:01):
you have the agency individuallyto work on getting yourself
better in your role, but untilour whole team increases, we're
never going to beat these teamsright, and so you're making the
goal combined and collaborative.
So it's not like I want thedefense specialist who's on the

(32:26):
bench to be just as good as mydaughter, because my daughter
gets hurt and she serves in thenet.
I need someone else to come in.
Do you know what I mean For theteam to be successful.
And I feel like when we getreally focused on individual
numbers and making them competefor court time against each
other, you lose the benefit ofthe team culture and environment

(32:51):
that's working together to beatthe other team.
Do you know what I mean?
Like I see that the same inbusiness.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
You know it's very similar yeah, that's such a
great point that we createcompetition internally, um, but
it's actually really hard totranslate that message that
you're competing against eachother to make each other better
because you're a team and youhave to play together.
So the better every single lineand every single player is, the

(33:23):
better you can come togetherand play.
So I'm going to play hardagainst you because that's going
to make you better right andnot to make you look bad, but to
make you better right, so Iactually have.
I have a question here for youwhich is from Evgenia here how

(33:44):
do you make that communication areceivable one?
So I think that's very promptin terms of, just, you know,
communicating that message.
How do you do that in sports?
And then maybe let's talk alittle bit about how you do that
in corporate culture yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
So I think in in sports it's first of all you not
being emotionally attached tothe outcome, because they'll
sense that, they'll see that andthey'll feel like it's a
criticism.
So if you can feel or if you'renot unattached, wait a minute
but also meeting them wherethey're at.
So I would not give thatcommunication to my daughter

(34:24):
when she's walking off and she'sfrustrated and she can't hear
me.
Anyway, just give her space andgive her some time to process.
Every kid's different.
Some of them want to processright away and have that
conversation.
So meeting them where they are,I think it's about making sure
that it's in their best interest.

(34:45):
So it's not a criticism, it'ssomething that the it's the same
and I'm going to go intobusiness here.
As long as everybody knows thatthe end goal for the company is
to do X or Y right.
It's to fulfill the customerneeds.
It's to deliver an amazingcustomer experience.
It's to do the best workpossible, whatever it is in that
area.

(35:05):
As long as you anchor it on howit is linked to the outcome and
the person feels agency in away that they can make a
difference and change it, thecommunication will be better
received If it's tied to anoutcome that is in the negative
and if it is about seen as acriticism and they don't feel

(35:28):
like they have any agency tomake the change they're just
it's going to get, it's going tobe a shutdown.
I mean it's got to be acombination of things meeting
them where they're at, tying itto their goal as part of the
broader goal and really makingit about tangible things they

(35:48):
have control over changing.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
Wonderful.
And so when you talk a littlebit more in depth of smaller
companies, I mean we think about.
You mentioned that you havemore in depth of smaller
companies.
You mentioned that you have thebigger conglomerates with
hundreds of people and then youhave small ones with two or
three.
How does that change?

(36:12):
Because I know they change thedynamic quite significantly.
I've been coaching teams whereyou have 18 players and then the
next year you have nine and youkind of have to struggle
through uh, through that lack ofum, you know, bench, uh,
strength, yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
So it's very good point.
The smaller the team, the morestretched everybody is from a
resource perspective right, andthe more exhausted they are, and
the more tired we get, the lesstolerance we have for receiving
feedback and for making changesand for adding on.
So in smaller teams, anytimeyou want to make a change, you

(36:51):
got to take something away.
You really can't add more onand you really need to be very
specific about what's in it forthem.
So what is going to be thebenefit of doing this?
And here's what's going to goaway by you doing this?
In bigger companies, there'sjust always so much time and
ability to get complacent,Because you know if you don't

(37:15):
step up, if you don't change,someone else is there, right.
So someone else can do it, theycan pick up the slack and it's
going to be okay.
The challenge there is you needto create that sense of urgency
and you need to be able toinspire people to be able to
change how they're doing thework, to level up when there's
actually really no immediateburning need to do so, Right.

(37:40):
And so I find that with um,like if there's an injury on the
team and it's all on you, Ifind that person really steps in
, but they are definitely notopen for any kind of direction
or feedback in that moment.
But if there is a backup, it'syou see it in sports too right,

(38:00):
as long as there's a backup Ifeel like I have, I don't have
to maybe give it that all.
So I think that's somethingthat shows up for sure.
It's such there's suchdifferent challenges.
You have to change how they'reworking.
But you need to change howthey're working from a creation

(38:23):
of a need and here from aextraction of stress yeah, I
like that.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
Um, you know, earlier you talked a little bit about
the, the toxicity, and I don'tknow if you.
Um, I watch some other keynotespeakers and public speakers and
there's a gentleman I forgethis name, it escapes me right
now, but he talks a little bitabout maybe, seals approach to
high performers and high trust.

(38:53):
And people who have highperformance and low trust are
usually toxic employees becauseyou're measuring their
performance, they're great, theybring in a lot of business, but
they'll sell their mother forfour dollar kind of thing and
and that, so they're very toxicfor the corporate environment,
as opposed to, uh, having a hightrust and a lower performer,

(39:16):
but that person is loyal and youknow you can rely on them.
Yeah, we're gonna go beyond.
They just need to be kind ofeducated to get to that
performer status and so, uh, youknow, it's very interesting
when you think about it in thoseterms, and and I really like
the analogy because the way,like you said, the way we

(39:37):
measure, is what we're going tofocus on and that's such a great
point.
But I do want to ask you alittle bit about how do you
suggest dealing with ego,because we know that ego gets in
the way, both in athletes andprofessional life, especially
experienced people who have beendoing something for many, many

(39:58):
years, and you come in and saywell, there's a better way, an
easier way or a faster way, andyou know how do you usually
deliver that message and dealwith that.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
Yeah, oh and and yeah , it's, the higher you go in an
organization and the higherlevel the competition in sports,
the more you see them, right?
Um, I think they're created,though I don't think very few,
very few people are born with itNow, I can't remember the
statistics of the number ofpeople who have a personality

(40:30):
disorder that are born with itbut we create them and then we
have to deal with them, and somy preference is to actually go
backwards and stop creating themby having really amazing
coaches and parents.
But we all have to face them atsome point.
I think there's two kinds,right.
There's the kind that has thehigh ego and they're not very

(40:51):
good.
There's the kind that has thehigh ego and they're not very
good and they create a lot ofresentment and anger on a team
because you're not reallyhelping us all that much.
And then there's the kind thathas the really big ego and
they're phenomenal and they'reundeniably good and you kind of
tiptoe around them.

(41:11):
The parents tiptoe around them,the coach tiptoes around them
because they're so talented, butat the end of the day, the
culture they've created in theteam, if they're injured and out
, the team just falls apart andit's not a team, right, and
these are team sports.
So what you need to do is youactually need to start measuring

(41:34):
these people with the egos onhow well are they playing the
team sport and how well, if onlyone who can do everything and
they are so phenomenal and noone can do it start measuring
them and how well theirsuccession plan is going.

(42:01):
Start measuring them on if theystepped out of a task, does
that task still get done?
Did they teach the peoplebeneath them how to do it?
And you'll start seeing they'llstill have an ego, but now
their ego will shift to look howgood I can build my team, look
how amazing I am at teambuilding, look at how phenomenal
this person is now and I'veseen that a little bit on teams

(42:25):
but unfortunately, more oftenthan not I see coaches and
parents really feeding the egofrom an individual standpoint
without consideration of theteam, and unfortunately,
sometimes then they becomebullies of the other kids who
are too afraid to stand up tothem because they see the

(42:49):
loyalty that the parents and theteams and the clubs have
developed around this player andyou really miss out.
Now, olivia, my daughter hasbeen lucky to have a few
Olympians coach her and there isa whole different style that
the three of them use, that have, and they all coached her at

(43:09):
different times.
They all have the same coachingtechniques and they will not
have a player with an ego, nomatter how good they are on
their team period.
They will take the people thatget cut from everybody else's
team and they will make themgreat and they know that they're
humble and they'll work hardand they teach them

(43:33):
visualization and meditation andeverything about growth,
mindset and resetting andlooking at your not we don't
look at, they don't look attheir highlight reels.
They'll put her, put togetherher, every bad play and they'll
go through what do you learn?
What do you learn?
What do you learn?
What do you learn?
Yeah, you know what, if we keepgoing through these, everything

(43:53):
will be a highlight reel.
It's just they and they justdon't take that attitude.
They just they will not have iton a team and I think there's a
reason for that.
Right, it's the team sports.
You need to build the team, um,but if you're faced with one
and you have that and the coachis willing, start trying to get

(44:13):
that player or on a team, try toget that team member to be
measured on how well they makethe other players.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
Yeah, you know, I use a lot of my coaching.
I use Sidney Crosby as anexample.
He's one of the most famoushockey players, most famous
khaki players, um.
But I think what I find veryinteresting and this is
something I learned in a seminarwith ushikaki when I was, you
know, learning uh, a gentlemancame in and he said you know,

(44:44):
sydney crosby won the standingcup.
He was the first round pick andand to the right of him was a
seventh round pick and to theleft was an eighth round pick,
so he was number one and therewas 176 and 237 and they played
on the same line and won theStanley Cup.
And you know he would say howhis skill made everybody around

(45:07):
the better.
Yeah, that's what these, theseelite performers can do when
they actually make other peoplebetter around them.
So I think it's such anintricate area, you know, and,
as you said, like the easiestthing I guess to do is to

(45:29):
eliminate that situation.
Do is to eliminate thatsituation.
But I think you know, I've seenwork coaches try to work
through it and almost bring downthe ego.
You know through you knowexamples and stuff, but it's a
battle, it feels like a battle.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
Yeah, and I imagine.
I mean, I think sometimes itdepends on how high up that
person's self-esteem is how muchit can be brought down.
But there's a lot of evidencethat shows that sometimes the
kids that have the biggest egoand are the biggest bullies are
the most troubled Right, and youdon't know what their situation

(46:12):
is outside of this sport, andwhat you wouldn't want to do is
create any kind of add on tothat.
So try, I mean for my, mydaughter has run into a few and
we just try to have compassion.
You know, just wow, that wasreally mean.
I wonder what she hears at homeall the time that has her
feeling so, so mean and you know, I wonder what's going on in

(46:36):
her life, because that's prettybrutal and you know, I don't
know, she used to get really,really upset about it and now
she doesn't.
I think there's a lot thathappens with social media.
I think social media is a way,especially with something like

(46:56):
Snapchat, where you can saysomething really horrible and
it's gone, and she would getsome things on there and either
she started replying back asjust I forgive you.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
Right, oh, I like that yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
And then one of the girls said yeah, I don't need
forgiveness.
And olivia implied yes, you doright then stop, stop, never,
never.
Text never did anything againyeah it's just, you know, that
wasn't fun, I guess I don't know.
So I think at first, you know,not take it personally, but yeah
, it's hard.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
Social media is pretty brutal for these kids.
Yeah, it's so interesting thatpeople are willing to go out of
their way just to whether it'scorporate culture, but even
family members, and sometimesthey're doing that too.

(48:00):
You know you could have, youknow, folks in your immediate
circle who would rather bringyou down than to build
themselves up to buildthemselves up.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Yeah, especially if you.
It's.
It's amazing.
But the more you achieve, or ifyou set out a goal, no matter
how small it is, the closer youget to it.
It's almost like you.
You hurt something in them thatthey're not doing the same
thing.
It's it's.
I used to have work with thiswoman and she used to always say
if someone comes up to you andsays you have green hair on the
street, what are you going tosay?
And I said I'm going to say no,I don't, and walk away.

(48:38):
Right, you're never going tothink about it again because you
know you don't have green hair.
Now someone came up to you andsay, wow, you're really putting
on some weight.
And then you take it and you'relike, oh my, why would say that
?
What's?
going on and it's becausethere's a little part of you
that is worried it might be true, and so you internalize it and

(48:59):
you take it on right, and soit's sort of like just learning
how to say well, I don't havegreen hair, that's, that's a you
problem, that's not me, right,and it's very hard to do.
But the more, the more you dothat from a team dynamic or in a
business or in sports orpersonal, the better.
And it's the same kind ofmindset you're talking about,

(49:21):
like after you had a bad play,right, how do you just get rid
of it?
Like, I'm not a bad player, Ihad a bad play.
It's very challenging to dothat.
It's very challenging to dothat with social media,
especially when people aresaying everything is great and
wonderful.
Then they throw some jabs yourway because they're so perfect

(49:42):
and you're apparently not.
But the more we can do that, Ithink the better.
Yeah, so now I'll just say toolivia I'm like do you have
green hair?
And she's like no, I don't.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
Okay, and that comment is really irrelevant and
sort of let's just delete it,move on yeah, and you know, I
always tell the boys, you know,my kids and the kids I coach is
that you know, acknowledge ifyou had a bad game, acknowledge
if you had a bad point.
It's okay to make a mistake.
Yeah, you can't be afraid of it.
You gotta know you made one.
And then be like, hey, you know, guys, I, I don't know, like

(50:16):
that's not working, what I'mdoing is not working.
Where do you need me to go?
Like, let's, let's figure outthis dynamic.
Right, talk to your teammates,talk to your coach.
Right, talk to your mom or dadand be like, hey, I, I, it
doesn't feel right.
Or yeah, every time I do it itdoesn't work.
I keep losing in that situation, I lose the battle in that
situation.

(50:36):
Like, how can I change that?
And so.
But it's kind of like goes backto the idea that you know, if
you don't know you have aproblem, you can't solve it.
Like that's the first thing.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
Right, every, every change management effort in a
company.
If there's not awareness thatthe change is needed, then
there's zero chance it's goingto be successful.
And we spend so much time beinglike here's the new features
and here's what's in it for you,and here's all of that and not

(51:08):
the why behind the change andthe specifics of it, and it you
know, 70% of 70 of changeefforts fail.
It's it's sort of like well, weneed to start a little earlier
and explaining that thereactually is a problem that needs
to be solved yeah, absolutely,um.

Speaker 1 (51:26):
and you know you made me think of this uh old
seinfeld episode where um owenwas leading a gentleman and he
would just, every time he wouldbreak up with somebody, he would
tell them something and likeyou know, you're gaining weight.
And he told her she has a bighead and all of a sudden,
everything she does like she'swalking through the park and a
bird hits her in the head, it'slike everything she does, like

(51:48):
just this whole episode she likebeats him up at the end.
It's an old episode, but itjust made me think of that.
You know where.
It's just like you just wouldsay something when people would
break up with him.
I couldn't Well, fine, but youhave a big head and every year
she'd walk into a wall andthings like that.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
She basically made it true.
Here's all the evidence.
I do have a big head, yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
You know, and that's, I think also.
You know it's comical, but itgoes back to that point you were
making that.
You know, sometimes you startadopting that.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
And athletes do they 100% do right, like maybe I am
not a good player or maybe I amnot, this it's like no, no,
that's yeah, I agree, and whatyou focus on grows right.
So you have to be able toacknowledge you had a bad play.
You have to be able toacknowledge a bad situation, but

(52:50):
not focus on it.
You need to then, as you said,turn to.
So what can I do about it?
So where can I go?
Who can I talk to?
How do I make this arrangementwith my teammate?
What you know, what's maybephysically changed?
Right, cause these athletes,especially when they're so young
, are physically changing somuch as they're growing up that

(53:13):
you know, like changing so muchas they're growing up, that you
know, like I, I I've, girls arekind of different.
I'm finding they, they havedifferent challenges.
My son, I swear, has grown twoinches in two weeks.
Like I don't know.
He went to bed and he wakes up.
None of his clothes fit him andI just you know, she was just
slow and steady.
He's now he.
He's not moving the same wayhe's.

(53:33):
It's like he's got a whole newbody and he can't figure it out
right.
So I'm imagining, as they playhigh level sports.
There's times where they, theirbody outgrows them to some
degree, right and and just.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
They may not even be able to articulate what's
happening and how they'refeeling, and you need to just
sit there with them until theysort it yeah, I mean, now that
I've joined the usa hockeynational coach developer program
, we have this seminar over thesummer and you know something
somebody brought up that is soobvious and I never thought

(54:08):
about.
It was puberty.
And he said you know, like youteach him to skate a certain way
, and then all of a sudden, youknow, for girls the hips get
wider and boys get taller, andall of a sudden that whole
stride, that whole skatingexperience, the whole body feels
weird, everything is off,everything is awkward, and it

(54:30):
just happened because they'regoing through hormonal changes
and and you know all that work.
And then you're like I don'tunderstand.
We've been working on this foreight years, 10 years, how can
you?
You know, why do you keepfalling, why?
And you're like well, that'sprobably why you know.
And you're like, yeah, it's soobvious, but it's something that

(54:51):
not all coaches think about.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
Well, every so obvious, but it's something that
, yeah, well, every, every malecoach needs to know.
That's coaching young women,that who you spend your most
time with, you, your cycle sinksit is.
There are some tournamentswhere I have to remind a coach.
I'm just like, can we just befor real here for a second?
This is not the tournament togive harsh feedback.

(55:14):
They're all gonna cry like it'sjust.
And they're all just crying.
He's like why are they crying?
They watched a kitten video,like just, it's just, it's
phenomenally hormonal, so it,you know, it's it that.
And there's 12 of them, right,so it's like it's just
fascinating.
But we don't actually teachthat, we don't actually consider

(55:36):
that.
You know, we should never, evermake tournaments on those days.
Um, but yeah.
And then you, then you thinkabout it.
You've got a whole gym full ofpeople, um, but yeah I had.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
I had an experience like that where I was.
I had a couple girls on on thekauai team and you know we
didn't have a very good game.
We were sitting in the lockerroom.
We kind of went around and said, you know, you need to do this,
you need to do that, and likeevery player and two of the

(56:11):
girls, one starts crying andthen the other one starts crying
.
And then you know, obviously theparents come up.
They're like why are theycrying?
I was like I have no idea.
So then I pull one to the side.
I'm like why are you crying?
She's like I'm crying becausethe other one started crying.
So I go to the other one.
I was like why are you crying?
She's like I don't know.
Yeah, I was like did I saysomething to offend you?
Did I say something mean?
Like tell me, like I, I wasn'ttrying to offend you, I wasn't

(56:33):
trying to be mean, we were justgoing around saying things that
we each going to improve.
Um, she's like no, I just feltlike you know, sad, like there
was no explanation.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
Like you know, that happened the other day we were
literally a few days ago.
We're coming back from the gymin the morning and she loves
going to the gym in the morningand we're driving back and I
look over and she's bawling andwhat happened?
Did something happen in the gym?
Did you get hurt?
No, are you okay?
I don't know.
You're like.

(57:07):
I said is there anything I cando?
No, do you want to talk aboutit?
No, cried like the entiremorning and at lunch I said how
are you feeling?
And you were crying in the car.
You want to talk about it?
Oh, no, I don't know why.
I was really sad and had noreason, reason, like just none.

(57:28):
And I went okay and I was likefine, it's okay, but there's,
there was an interesting umresearch done by uh gosh, I
can't.
I think it was denise chen.
She did this research thatlooked at how you can sense
emotions through smell and thatthe more you perspire and the

(57:49):
more you're kind of like in anadrenaline or you've got
cortisol or whatever or you'vegot you know you're feeling
happy.
People can smell it and it's.
It's almost like contagious,right, like the energy is
contagious.
So it's just also somethingthat's you know as soon as one
player gets into that state, italmost it feels like it just

(58:10):
spreads and you're not sure howyou could.
You can leave the huddle andcome back to the huddle and be
like what happened, I don'tunderstand.
But they're not even aware ofit, they just smell it Like it's
.
It's just perceived emotionalshift from a sense of scent.

Speaker 1 (58:26):
Right, well, that's interesting, interesting, that's
really interesting, you knowcrazy yeah it could be some,
some you know, subconsciouslevel.
I know that you know there'sdays when I have a tough day and
you get to the rink and you'rejust tired and frustrated maybe,
uh, but you get on the ice with, like, the little guys and, and

(58:46):
just you know, your wholedemeanor changes because they're
just all happy and excited whyI'd be there.
You're like all right, you knowyou kind of like smell the youth
out of them, you know, feed offtheir energy their energy and
their, their excitement andtheir happiness and it's just,
it's uh.

Speaker 2 (59:04):
You know people will always say it.
You know you feel the energywhen you walk in the room and
you've done it.
You have.
I've walked into a boardroom,I'm going oh right yeah, not
great news.
I don't know what's happening,but something's not good, right,
and you just know.
And then you sit down and thenyou hear the news.
You're like, oh yeah, that'snot good news, but you can feel
it before you even have a cluewhat the content is.

(59:25):
So they're feeling that all ofthe time and they're not even
sure why they're feeling whatthey're feeling.
These teenage years areextremely difficult.
They're extremely difficult toparent.
They're extremely difficultwhen you get a team of them
together and you're trying tocoordinate them to do something
pretty, pretty amazing.
But yeah, great coaches I've'veseen, just like you're saying,

(59:49):
are very conscious of what thefeeling and the general vibe is
of the team right and what youneed to do to shift it yeah,
yeah, absolutely, and I thinkyou know I want to just go back
a moment.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
Um, you know, I know we're coming up on the hour here
, but I want to talk a littlebit about the frustration and
how you get through it.
So you mentioned instanceswhere you're struggling, but you
know you're not a bad player.
You've done great things inyour sport or at your job.
You know you're good and youcan add value.

(01:00:24):
But you may be struggling atthe moment, and so I had
something similar with my middlekid where he was struggling a
little bit over a few weeks inhis game and in school, and I
said I know only one way tobring up your confidence and to
get back to where you are, andthat is just go to work, just

(01:00:50):
get to it, start start grinding.
You have the skill.
We know you have it becauseyou've shown it before.
It doesn't just.
You know, skill doesn't justevaporate overnight.
You know, um, but you know foryou to kind of dig into it, you
gotta get back to work.
So what do you usuallyrecommend in those instances?

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
So I do the same thing in a business environment
and with the team environment,and I don't just do this with my
daughter, I do this with herteam, which I just feel like it
has to happen.
Almost every day, we're focusedon what needs to be improved
and what needs to be done.
Almost every day, we're focusedon what needs to be improved
and what needs to be done.
There's a to-do list that neverends, and they're always
striving for that performanceenhancements, right, work home,

(01:01:35):
sports.
So what we get focused on isall of the gap.
Here's the gap from where weare to where we need to go.
The gap from where we are towhat we need to get done.
The gap from where we want toperform to where we are to where
we need to go.
The gap from where we are towhat we need to get done.
The gap from where we want toperform to where we're
performing.
And so I think it's great,because you're constantly trying

(01:01:56):
to improve.
You've got how do I learn frommy mistakes?
But you are seeing a lot ofyour mistakes and the correction
of your mistakes.
What I do in both is I createhighlight reels, if you will.
So in a work environment.
What I'll do is I'll takepauses just not scheduled pauses
, but pauses and say hang on asecond.
Guys, do you realize that Xtime ago this was what was

(01:02:17):
happening?
And here's where you are.
That's amazing.
Look at what you've done.
This is phenomenal.
You saved 30% efficiency.
Or you've done this, or you, you, you went and changed these
five things for the customersand they love it.
Look at, look at what thesecustomers are saying about it.
That's amazing.
Well, this list over here is 25million things that are wrong

(01:02:39):
with the customer experience.
Uh-huh, but these five onesaren't on it anymore.
Look what you've done.
And so there's a.
There's a ai assisted, um, kindof I don't know program that
takes all of the plays thatolivia does and all of the it
says need a bad pass.
You know, good up a bad pass.

(01:03:00):
Then you know not great attack.
And she'll go through thosewith the coaches to be like how
can you change your platform?
What you can you do blah, blah,blah.
And every now and then, whatI'll do is I'll put on the TV
her highlight reel and I'll justand we'll do it Like we'll grab
popcorn, I'll grab the brother,grab the dog.
We sit down and we're like youknow, we're going to watch.
We're going to watch herhighlight reel and really like

(01:03:21):
who's playing, who's this player?
look at that, look at that path.
It was amazing.
And she's like, okay, I get it.
And then sometimes what I'll dois I'll put in one from like
when she was 10 and be like now,watch this highlight reel.
And she'd go, oh man, so bad.
I'm like, no, look how faryou've come.
Look how far you've come.
Look at a cute little thingover there who can't underhand

(01:03:43):
serves and so excited and lookat you now just acing it there
with this like crazy serve,that's not receivable.
And she's like I got it, okay,right?
So I think we need to do thatfor ourselves.
Is you know, we we, especiallywith a computers, our to-do
lists don't have all thosecrossed off things we've done.
It just has the list of undone,you know, just to remind

(01:04:06):
ourselves like we've come so far, we've done so much yeah, yeah,
and I love that concept likecelebrating you, your wins, and
celebrating yourself and youraccomplishments along the way.
Yeah, I guess the team to likecompliment them on nice things
that aren't anything volleyballrelated, right, like you know,

(01:04:27):
when I forgot my lunch and yougave me my lunch, that was so
great.
Like, start showingappreciation for the things that
make you a good human, not justa player we're trying to
optimize on the court right or aworker we're trying to get the
most out of from their nine tofive worker.

(01:04:48):
We're trying to get the mostout of from their nine to five.
Yeah, we're trying to say thesepeople are humans and they
bring these unique humancharacteristics to work and to
the sport and to everything.
And I think that well-roundedreminder is just nobody is
unhappy at the end of those thatI have seen so far.
I mean I'm probably going tofind somebody now who's like
grouchy and mad at me for doingit because I'm on this podcast

(01:05:10):
saying it, but in my experienceit's been really great that that
that that helps bringperspective.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
Yeah, and I love that .
It's almost like a measurementof your progress, right, like,
like you just said, like here'swhere you were, here's where you
are today.
Progress, right, like you justsaid, like here's where you were
, here's where you are today, soyou know you can get to where
you're going.
Yeah, because you're done here,like it's good, like you're on
the way.

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
And it wasn't easy, and that's okay.

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
Right, awesome.
Well, I know we're at the topof the hour here.
I just wanted to, as you, do alittle rapid fire, like three
quick questions for all myguests, so I'm going to start
firing them off.
So first one is what do youthink motivates athletes?

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
I think that there are two motivations.
They're the extrinsicmotivations, where there's
athletes who, like the glory andthe fame that comes with it
whatever their parents wantdrives them.
And I think there's intrinsicmotivation where there's
athletes who truly just want tosee how far can I push it, how
far can I hit my potential,whatever that looks like.

Speaker 1 (01:06:20):
Awesome Question number two name three character
traits you notice in successfulathletes.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
Humility, I think, work ethic and kindness.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
Awesome, I like all those three.
And then how about three thatyou think can hold an athlete or
professional back?

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
I think mindset, so they get in their own way.
They start thinking they can't,so they can't.
I think when they startbelieving the Valentines and I
think when you lose sight ofwhat you're in it for Awesome,

(01:07:06):
wonderful and Wari.

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
I know you go out and you work with other companies
and you work with individuals aswell.
If folks want to find you, howdo they do that?

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
So right now, uh, they can go to uh
laurie-clarkcom.
It'll put you to my LinkedInand uh you'll be able to see
what I'm up to and connect ifyou'd like to.

Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
Wonderful.
Well, thank you so much forjoining me today.
I thought it was a wonderfulconversation.
I think you got to touch on alot of things and and I love
that you drew a lot of parallelsbetween athletic world and the
professional world, because Idon't think that I do that
enough on this show, and I'mreally, really glad we got to do
that today.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
Great.
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
Of course.
Thank you everybody for joiningus tonight and listening and
please do share the show withyour friends, your family
Hopefully it's helpful and reachout with any questions.
If you have questions for Lori,I'll be happy to pass them
along.
Thank you again and have awonderful evening everyone.

(01:08:17):
We'll see you next time.