May 23, 2025 • 64 mins
Finding hockey equipment that truly fits can transform a player's experience on the ice. In this revealing conversation with Jon from Black Biscuit LLC, we dive deep into the evolution of hockey gear and how proper fit trumps expensive brand names every time.
Jon shares the fascinating journey of Black Biscuit, from its origins in 1994 creating the first dedicated roller hockey pants to becoming a company focused on custom sublimated jerseys and uniforms that make players feel like "a million bucks." His insider perspective on equipment manufacturing reveals surprising truths about what really matters in hockey gear selection.
"A composite stick at 325 grams is a composite stick at 325 grams - it doesn't matter if it says Warrior, True, Bauer, CCM, Sherwood, or some no-name," Jon explains, challenging the marketing hype that drives equipment prices skyward. His straightforward advice for parents navigating youth hockey equipment purchases is refreshingly practical: focus on comfort and proper fit rather than flashy brands.
The conversation extends beyond equipment to explore youth hockey culture, effective coaching approaches, and the character traits that define successful athletes. Jon shares valuable insights on creating positive team environments where players learn to support each other while developing their skills. His emphasis on sportsmanship, making hockey fun, and helping players build confidence provides a blueprint for coaches and parents alike.
Whether you're new to hockey or a seasoned player looking to upgrade your gear, this episode offers invaluable guidance on making equipment choices that enhance performance while avoiding unnecessary expenses. Join us for a conversation that will change how you think about hockey equipment and team culture.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Good evening everybody and welcome to the
Podolsky Method podcast.
It's great to be back witheverybody here tonight.
I am your host, ilya Podolsky.
I'm a level five user hockeymaster coach, creator and host
of the Podolsky Method podcast.
Owner and operator of skatesharpening shop called Sharp
Skate, new York, usa Hockeycoach developer and a CPA by
(00:57):
trade on the side, and I'd liketo introduce to you guys a few
of our sponsors here.
And I'd like to introduce toyou guys a few of our sponsors
here Print Only With Us, a fullprinting shop here in New York
City where you could get yourT-shirts, caps, gears and much,
(01:18):
much more.
For those of you guys lookingfor protection for your teeth
and you're playing hockey, checkout Wargate Hockey for a cage
that goes over your visor.
Check out Wargate Hockey for acage that goes over your visor.
Get 10% off with the code10PODOLSKIY.
How is hockey?
Of course, as usual, get 10%off with them at PODOLSKIY10.
(01:39):
Check out the New York JuniorRangers programming.
We are done for this year, butwe're back in September.
There's plenty of camps, ballhockey and a ton of wonderful
events for those kids that arelooking to start or continue to
play and you want to get intothe game with the New York
Rangers.
There's alumni involved andactive players as well.
(02:01):
So definitely encourage youguys to take a look at nhlcom.
Slash rangers, slash community,slash youth dash hockey.
It's really a great sport.
Also, check outsagaciousmindsorg, which is a
non-for-profit organizationgeared towards working with kids
with disabilities and withoutthrough sport.
(02:24):
I am involved heavily with ourorganization.
It's a wonderful, wonderfultask.
But let's get to the point heretonight and we have a wonderful
guest with me John from BlackBiscuit LLC.
John has a bachelor degree, heis a trader by trade and he's an
owner of Hockey Depot andBlockBiscuit.
(02:47):
John, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Thanks for having us Really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Of course it's my pleasure and I'm actually proud
to partner with you guys for ourspring tournament team at the
Lobster Fest in Rhode Islandcoming June 13th.
So we're excited about that,Really excited to work with you
guys.
So maybe you could start alittle bit by telling folks a
little bit about yourself andwhat sports you played growing
(03:14):
up and a little bit about yourbackground.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Sure.
So you know, I grew up on LongIsland.
Majority of my sports werereally soccer and tennis.
Sports were really soccer andtennis.
Um, we dabbled in deck hockey,slash back in the early 1980s
when micron came out with theroller hockey skate.
Uh, we both, a bunch of us had,uh, microns and we, you know,
(03:40):
chased the old ladies off thetennis courts and, you know,
carried the nets on our bicycleson our head and, you know,
played pickup roller hockey, youknow.
And that continued through highschool.
In college we started, you know, our college deck hockey team
and ever since then, you know,from probably 16 on, you know,
(04:02):
playing hockey.
You, you know, dabbled in icehockey for a little bit till I
hurt my knee and then we startedbacking down into a roller
again that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
I actually come with the roller background as well.
Um, you know, I probably talkeda little bit about this on the
show, but I don't know if I didin extensively.
Uh, friend of mine, antonAntipov, who is a bodybuilder,
he was actually a guest on theshow as well.
He, we went to some junior highschool.
He called me up one day andsaid let's go play hockey.
(04:33):
And I had no idea what it was.
So we just bought roll bladesthat had those wooden wheels on
them and you know, those 99cents hockey sticks with rubber
that just rubbed off in threeminutes and we just went out and
played and you know we used todo.
You know, at some point itconverted to like seven hours a
day and you know, you startlooking at the equipment and
(04:55):
look at the gear and you know,started to really learn about
that stuff yep, yep, we, we didthat as well.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
We all picked up the my election pads, the my like
goalie pads that would rip afteryou slid on them, that my like
sticks that had the littlecircular, you know, in there, so
you can really shoot the ball,which is what we were using.
Right, it's a makeshiftfootball helmet that we kind of
(05:24):
put some weird, weird plexiglasson, so it was crazy.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, it's interesting how innovative you
were.
I think we used the electrictape as a puck because, you know
, once you rub it off, it becamesmooth, right, yep.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
We used tennis balls and then we moved up to a
lacrosse ball with tape, whichhurt a lot, and then we went
back down to tennis balls andthen we tried with the puck, but
it just didn't really work, sowe stuck with the ball folks a
(06:03):
little bit about Black Biscuit,and I know you sent me some
background about the company andI thought it was really
interesting how that transpired,so maybe you could talk a
little bit about that.
Sure.
So Black Biscuit was a threeperson creation back in 1994.
They were three guys from theLA area and they had a lot of
(06:25):
buddies playing pro beach rollerhockey and a lot of the guys
were wearing shorts and no shinguards.
And they asked the guys atBlack Biscuit initially to come
up with some kind of pant not asweat pant but a pant.
So they created the rollerhockey pant essentially.
(06:45):
You know they were the og androller hockey.
Um, you know, to this day somepeople still have them.
I actually still do those.
Those pants were heavy duty,nylon and codora, virtually
indestructible, um, but know, asthe sport evolves, so does the
(07:08):
equipment right.
So you know, black Biscuit thenmorphed into jerseys and, you
know, as the Hockey Depot.
We were one of the firstinternet dealers selling Black
Biscuit online, dealing with thecollege when they started the
NCRHA, which was awesome.
(07:29):
We dealt with a lot of collegesbefore all of this licensing
came into town and thenBlackBiscuit kind of disappeared
for a little while.
There was one of the partnersleft, the other partner left,
the third partner that was leftwith it.
That stuck with it, rather gotinto a little bit of a legal
battle with the fabricmanufacturer overseas and lost
(07:55):
the case, but the trademark wasgiven to the fabric company that
did nothing with it, companythat did nothing with it.
So while the Hockey Depot wasstill around, we were still
selling a lot of hockeyequipment.
You know whether it be barrelwarrior.
Ccm, you know true, wasn'taround then.
Sherwood was a big one,christian brothers was a big one
(08:17):
.
I was watching the trademarkbecause I saw how unique black
biscuit was.
I knew the guys there and whenthe trademark went dormant I
grabbed it and I brought backone of the original partners to
we what I would call biscuit 2.0.
(08:37):
And that was in 2012.
And we relaunched in 2012.
And it was a very differentworld than what the original
business partner who I broughtin knew.
And we brought back theoriginal pants and nobody wanted
(09:01):
them and nobody wanted them.
They wanted the lighter pantsthat Mission was making or Bauer
was making, and nobody caredthat they ripped after two games
.
They just wanted a lighter pant.
So, fast forward.
We real quickly pivoted,started making those pants
lighter better, the biscuit way,which was that flair of that
(09:25):
old school pro pant which we nowcall the player pant.
And we introduced somethingcalled the arrow pant, which is
a little bit more on the taperedside and we saw the need that
if we're selling teams, pants,sublimation was there.
Pants sublimation was there andthe factory that we own a
(09:51):
percentage of startedintroducing us to sublimation
and we found it great.
So we started making sublimatedjerseys to match the pants and
now you had teams matching pantsand jerseys.
And now, fast forward to 2025,and now fast forward to 2025,
we're just dominating thismarket in sublimated jerseys and
pants, and we've always doneice hockey, but ice hockey is a
(10:12):
very big piece for us as well,because the beauty of
sublimation is whatever you candream about, it can really
become reality.
And that's part of what we sayis we have your vision become
reality.
(10:32):
And if you look at our websiteand want to peruse and go into
our design vault, those are allactual teams that wear our
jerseys.
They are not concepts.
We are not a template company.
You guys might think that oneof these designs is so cool and
we want our colors, and theanswer is, unfortunately, no, we
(10:52):
won't do that.
We will not have numerous teamshaving similar designs and I
think that's one of the realcool things about BlackBiscuit.
You've chosen us and we want youknow, know, half of the battle
is looking good, feeling good,you play good, right?
So that's really how weposition this company.
You know, it's a fun companyand it's always been known as
(11:15):
the fun company.
You know, and you know, aswe're getting into this new era
of hockey, delivery is important.
More important than that isreally quality, you know, and a
reasonable price, right?
(11:35):
Yeah, hockey is expensive,whether you play roller or ice
or even deck hockey, you know.
So you want to make sure thatthe equipment that you're
wearing, including your uniform,is going to last, and that is
one of the founding principlesthat we strive to make sure that
(11:57):
everything goes throughnumerous quality control tests
before they're shipped.
And you know, here we are andyou know we're thriving.
You know, we were acquired byThunder Bay Hockey, thunder Bay
Holding Company, which now holdsthe Hockey Depot, black Biscuit
(12:20):
and some of the other sistercompanies the Skate Depot and
All-Star Athletics.
So we're getting in the rightdirection of where we want to be
as a vertically integratedcompany.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Awesome.
It sounds like an amazingjourney, starting from going
from all the way to thebeginning in the original.
You know the original productand kind of like evolving over
time um.
But speaking about you knowevolution and speaking about how
the equipment has changed, Ithink one of the things that I
(12:55):
noticed in in hockey playersspecifically is, with um, with
better equipment, there is alittle bit less of that fear
factor when kids play the game.
And you know, especially whenyou're talking about youth and
if you talk about those old Jofahelmets, right, that people
(13:16):
used to wear, which had verylittle protection, you know you
could bump your head and get aconcussion very easily.
Now these things absorb theenergy of the impact so well
that you know it's actuallygetting harder for you to get
injured, and so maybe you couldtalk a little bit about the
(13:37):
evolution of the products interms of just safety and how
that impacts the athletes.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Sure, I mean.
So I think, if you think backto the 1980s, when you're
talking about Jofa right andCooper and watching, you know
old clips of the NHL with thesegoalie masks that, literally,
you know, look like the MichaelMyers mask, right it's, these
guys got hurt, right, it's avery different game than it is
(14:09):
now and these guys played withminimal, minimal protection,
right.
So I think, if you're lookingat ice hockey versus roller or
deck, right, you had two sets ofequipment.
You had the Milek FranklinWorld, right, and then you had
the CCM, bauer, to a lesserdegree, cooper, jofa, right, I
(14:37):
mean they all kind of came underumbrella companies, umbrella
companies.
And then you know, you fastforward to now and you have true
sherwood, you know powerwarrior, and everything has
become like you said, ilia.
You know protection.
(14:57):
You know a helmet cost 50 bucksand that was probably a lot a
long time ago.
Now you can't get a helmet for50 bucks.
You know that you would feelcomfortable playing any type of
hockey other than, basically,pickup hockey, which you know is
(15:18):
not going to be physical, asphysical as you know competitive
hockey.
So you know we see a lot ofinnovation going in.
You know we speak to a lot ofthe companies that manufacture
this stuff.
We've, you know, been to thefactories that make it and the
technology is is amazing.
(15:39):
It's.
I think it's only going to getbetter, you know.
But what we've noticed is, inthe roller world, that equipment
disappeared.
It's now only basically icehockey.
So shin guards are shin guards,right, elbow pads are elbow
(15:59):
pads, gloves are gloves stickseveryone's using a composite
stick.
I think the abs, composite absstick that everyone used in
roller or street or deck is gone, you know.
So it's watching these.
The equipment become better,lighter, more durable and
(16:23):
lasting more than 29 or 32 days,being more, you know, having
the right flex, the right curve,and it's, I mean.
And then you get into theskates where you can physically
mold your foot at any age andget a skate that's not going to
(16:44):
hurt your foot and take weeks tobreak in.
I think it's just, it'sfascinating for us as we
continue to, you know, talk toall these guys and watch what
they're doing, you know.
But then again you have thatvery crowded market, right,
everyone's doing it.
You know, the ones that reallydid it first were graph, you
(17:05):
know.
And where are they now?
Right, you know?
Yeah, they're coming backthrough vaughn.
You know, michael vaughn, he'sa visionary, right, you know,
makes incredible goalieequipment and he is, he owns the
graph line now.
So it's you know.
But they were the og and those,those custom skates, and you
know, you see it with True, yousee it with Bauer, you see it
(17:27):
with CCM.
You know those are the big guys.
You know what makes a Trueskate better than a Bauer or CCM
?
That I don't know.
You know, I don't know, but Ithink it's.
They're all making sure thatthe protection is just getting
better, better, better, right.
(17:47):
And I think part two of it isyou have guys like tj yoshi of
war road, right of thewashington capitals, backing war
road and wearing the neckguards right after,
unfortunately, you know, thatplayer overseas died and it's.
It's about making sure that.
(18:09):
You know.
I think, with the way in whichthis equipment and this even
goes, you know, for jerseys andpants, right, it has to fit
properly.
You have to make sure that thisstuff fits.
There's no such thing as twomore socks.
There's no such thing as, oh,we're gonna buy a half a size
bigger, it's gotta fit, whetherit's a shin guard, a glove, an
(18:30):
elbow pad, a skate a stick.
You know, that's why they makeall these different sizes and
all these different flexes andall these different.
You know, fit two, fit one, fitthree, narrow, double e, you
know something in the middle.
So it's, I like the fact thateveryone's evolving and and
(18:51):
continuing to make things better, right, and not price gouging
people.
Oh, you want that helmet, it'seight hundred dollars.
You know that, that I think thatthat's the beauty of what I'm
seeing, that there's it's a anda lot more safety as well.
Coming from the, from the nhl,right back when I was watching
(19:11):
it, and probably when you werewatching it in the early 80s, I
don't know if there wassomething called player safety.
You know, I don't think anybodyever mentioned that right,
right.
So you know, I think it reallycomes down to, you know, I mean,
and we could probably thank theNFL for this right, because
they are the ones that reallyearly, really early on putting
concussion protocol.
And now you know, you see allthe leagues, whether it be Major
(19:33):
League Baseball, nhl, the PWHL,right, everyone's doing player
safety, right, right.
And you know, I think and Ilike the fact that all of the
companies and also, inparticular, we try to make sure
that you know everything's onthe up and up and it's really
(19:54):
just continuing to get better.
Like how can we integrate agirdle?
Do people want to wear a girdlewith a pair of roller hockey
pants or one of our shells, ordo they prefer to go buy their
own girdle?
One of our shelves or do theyprefer to go buy their own
girdle?
Right?
I think that's what we try tofigure out.
Talk to customers, talk toother teams and you know the
(20:17):
consensus so far is kids like topick their own girdle, whether
it be a shock doctor or CCM.
So you know what.
We're not doing it.
Let them wear what they want towear, right?
Yeah, I love that we're notdoing it.
Let them wear what they want towear right.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, I love that, and so you know, you mentioned
the difference in the equipmentstyle right in different fits.
So one question I wanted to askyou is and we have a lot of
(20:50):
listeners on the show who are,you know, beginners and just
getting the kid on the ice forthe first time or just starting
out hockey versus people who are, you know, at a higher level,
maybe tier two, tier one, even,you know, maybe some of the
college players, um, so whatwould you say, um, what would be
your recommendation for, uh,somebody who is like an entry
level player and what theyshould look for when they're
looking for equipment, versussomebody who's more experienced?
Speaker 2 (21:04):
so I, I think you know, if you're planning to put
your child in ice hockey andit's a learn to skate type of
program I mean, you mentioned itas one of the sponsors right,
new York Rangers, backslashcommunity, backslash youth
hockey that's your biggest bangfor the buck.
(21:24):
You're getting skates helmet,you name it.
You're getting the full kit for$3.50, something like that,
right, I think?
Last I saw and you know it'sgoing to be fit correctly, right
.
So you know, and it's also, Ithink, going to the stores and
getting the right person.
(21:44):
It's also, I think, going tothe stores and getting the right
person, whether it be HockeyMonkey or Pure Hockey, which
seems to be the 900-poundgorilla and making sure you're
comfortable with the salesperson.
(22:05):
That I even tell my kids when Icoach is don't be afraid to
tell the salesperson or your momor your dad something doesn't
feel right.
Just don't buy it.
To buy it, make sure it fits,make sure it's comfortable.
You know, yeah, the skatesyou're going to have to break in
a little.
That's just the way it is.
I mean, it's come a long waysince you know I was skating on,
you know, sherbrooks orwhatever that, whatever they
(22:28):
were, when my dad threw me ontoa pond, but it's the proper fit,
right, and I don't know whatthat is.
You know, in one skate I'm afit two and the other skate I'm
a fit three makes no sense,right, my feet are flat, as can
be, but everything fitsdifferently.
And don't feel that you have tobe brand loyal.
You can wear true gloves,sherwood shin guards, bauer
(22:54):
skates and a CCM helmet.
It does not matter.
It has to feel comfortable andit has to fit properly, and I
think that's that, that's the,that's what the advice that I
give everybody that asks me.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
I love that.
Yeah, I think it's so importantto make sure that you actually
enjoying your gear and I thinkso many people, like you said
like they go for the maybe moreexpensive brand new you know, a
thousand dollar pair of skatesbut then they hate it Right.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
The shiny new toy is not necessarily the best.
And just because it costs $499,I can tell you, a composite
stick at 325 grams is acomposite stick, 325 grams.
It doesn't matter if it saysWarrior, true Bauer, ccm,
(23:49):
sherwood or some no-name, right.
And if you look at the NHL,yeah, you're going to see the
big boys, but if you watchOvechkin, there's no name on his
stick, right, right, but it'shis stick, right.
So at the end of the day, itdoesn't really matter what the
name is.
The grams is the grams.
(24:11):
You have to be comfortable withthe way it feels, the way it
fits with you and the curve,because the curve is the curve.
Everyone does a P88 or a P92 ora PM9.
So I tried to explain that tomy, my little guy, who you know
(24:33):
uses a lot of sherwood, right, Ithink sherwood is the biggest
bang for the buck, to be honestwith you, um, you know.
And I tell him hey, if it'sgood enough of, you know, conor
Bedard and Matthew Kachuk, it'sgood enough for you.
So it's, you know, the marketingbehind any of these brands.
(24:56):
It's big dollars, right?
Does you know?
Does an Air Jordan make youjump higher?
No, but everybody wanted them,right, and me too, I wanted
three pairs.
So it's, you know, don't.
I would say again, don't buyinto the marketing.
(25:18):
Just because it's a $499 skateor a $299 stick Does it make you
going to shoot harder?
Does it make you going to passfaster?
The skates aren't going to makeyou skate faster.
It has to fit and make sure it'scomfortable, and the same goes
with jerseys and socks.
If you're, you know, a smallerperson, you want to make sure
(25:43):
you have an 18 or 20-inch sock,not a 24-inch sock.
Make sure your jersey is nothanging down almost to your
knees, so that also comes intoplay.
With the proper fit, it evengets down to the socks you use.
Don't use a thick sock, use aski sock or a thin, thin skate
(26:04):
sock.
They're relatively inexpensive.
It doesn't matter the brand,that's.
I think that's the thing.
It has to be comfortable andyou have to feel the fit and
make sure everything you knowaligns correctly.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yeah, I think you know it's such a good point and
it kind of translates so well tothe actual game as well.
Right, if you think aboutpeople chasing triple a, you
know these like letters, thesenumbers, and they kind of
sometimes forget the actualexperience, what happens on the
(26:40):
ice, right?
Um, you know, and it's sad tosee that because it's you know,
the actual experience is whatreally matters and you want your
kid to enjoy his time and notcome over the ice with boosters
all over the place, right.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
And I think a lot of the parents have to remember
they're kids, they are kids.
They like their video games too.
They like still running intomom and dad's bed at 10, 30 at
night because they can't sleepright.
They're still little kids, even12 year olds, like.
So, like, don't be so hard onthem, let them still be a kid,
(27:23):
right.
Uh, then know, not everyone'sgoing to be a Wayne Gretzky or
an Ovechkin or a Kachuk or aConor Bedard or a Celebrini.
Let them play at the level thatthey're at.
I'm not saying, don't push themif you feel that they can do
better, but let them be kids.
(27:45):
I think that's what I'm coaching.
It's okay if they fall and missthe puck.
You know I'm not gonna makethem feel bad.
That's listen, it is what it isright.
I mean that does.
The kid's self-esteem isn't anybetter.
He knows he missed the puck orshe missed the puck, right.
You don't need to make it worse.
(28:07):
You don't need to penalize theperson either.
So you know, when I'm coachingit's you have to be the kid's
advocate as well, and I thinkthat's a big part of the game
that a lot of coaches or I don't, I shouldn't say a lot of
coaches.
(28:27):
A handful of coaches miss, andthe parents miss, right, they
want their kid to be the best,they want them to be the rock
star.
But you know I use there's no Iin team, right, so together
each achieve more.
That's my mentality when I'mout there coaching and trying to
(28:47):
teach my little guys how toplay.
And we have a co-ed league thatI coach in and it's just
different skill sets, right?
You know we have a first lineand a second line.
The first line is a littleweaker, the second one's a
little stronger.
But you know what Like if they,if they feel like they've
(29:09):
contributed, that's great.
I want them to feel happy.
The last thing I want to dobefore every game I have a
little motto.
I say what do we want to do atthe end of the game?
And of course some kids say win.
Yeah, of course we want to win.
I said but what happens if wedon't win?
What else do we have to do?
(29:30):
And they said have fun.
I said exactly, that's the mostimportant thing.
You have to have fun in whatyou're doing, because the second
you're not having fun, that'sit.
Yeah, it's not going to be anenjoyable experience for you,
probably.
That's it.
Yeah, it's not going to be.
It's not going to be anenjoyable experience for you,
probably for your mom and dad,cause you're going to be upset,
(29:50):
which means they're going to beupset.
It's not going to be good foryour teammates, right?
It's not an eye sport.
It's not like you're playingsingles tennis.
It's a team sport.
The team does well, we do youdo well.
Does well we do you do well.
The team doesn't do well youdon't do well, right, it can't.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
There's no finger pointing on my team ever.
Yeah, I like that.
And, john, when you, um, Iguess when you take on teams and
you see, let's say, differencein skill, right, because a lot
of co-ed teams I coach a lot ofco-ed teams as well and in youth
hockey, you, we know that a lotof times we don't select kids.
We take kids that come totryouts, we try to put them on
(30:35):
teams and we try to build all ofthem up.
We try to put them, I guess, onteams of equal skills, just so
they're having more of thatcompetitive engagement.
Right, you don't want somebodywho is three levels above you
just skating circles around youscoring all the goals while you
can't touch the puck.
That also takes away from thefun.
(30:56):
So you want to try to put themin the right buckets.
But what's your approachusually when you have a team
that has a wider skill set?
Speaker 2 (31:08):
let's say so I mean, you know, we try to teach when
I'm coaching, to the lowestcommon denominator, right?
And what I do is I tell thekids hey, you know what you need
to help, you need to help makethis child better and you need
to help build this person's este.
Hey, you know what you need tohelp, you need to help make this
(31:28):
child better and you need tohelp build this person's esteem,
right, if it's someone that is,you know they'll learn to skate
.
They just finished and theywant to play in the league.
Great, you know.
But I put it on the kidsbecause, and what I say to them
is what, if that was you, howwould you want to feel?
(31:49):
And they say well, I would wantmy teammates to help me and
tell me if I'm doing somethingwrong and show me what to do and
I'm like right.
So that's what we need to do,because, at the end of the day,
if you can make somebody better,that's making you better.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Right, right, right, I love that, yeah, and I think
that that kind of also builds onthe whole.
You know that experience, youknow the experience of sports
and what you want out of sport.
Right, you want a kid who issocial, who is focused on the
positive and wants to help thosearound them, as opposed to you
(32:30):
know everybody's terrible and Idon't want to play with them.
I should be on that team, right, yeah, right, I talk.
You know, I talk a lot here onthe show about what I call
kitchen talk, when parents kindof go home or go somewhere and
they start talking negativelyabout other teammates or the
coaches or each other and thatkind of trickles down into the,
(32:52):
I guess, the coachability of thechild.
So have you seen that in yourexperience where that impact
kind of goes into the child andyou have to address it with the
parents or maybe with the familyto try to get them back into
the culture?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
So I've been lucky.
I haven't seen that on theteams that I have that I've
coached, but I have seen it onother teams.
Right, and you know, I think itit starts when you have parents
(33:30):
that might be a littledelusional, right addressed, and
you know it's then it.
I think that that's, you know,and I think it has to do with
(33:53):
like the upbringing right andyou know I have no idea, like I
said, I haven't seen it, but youknow when that I mean when we
do hear of that that isaddressed immediately.
Like there is no bashinganother team.
(34:14):
You know there's no.
You know.
You know making fun of anybody,like you know we, the coaches,
collectively in the league, youknow we'll make sure that.
You sure that we address thatvery quickly and there's no
(34:35):
laughing.
I don't want to say there's nocelebrating when there's a goal,
but there's no excessivesellies or whatever these kids
are doing these days.
We want to get the game back on.
You know we don't listen.
A goalie lets up a goal.
They know they let up the goal.
They don't need it to be rubbedin their face Like we teach
(34:57):
them.
It's very important for me andmy kids that I coach and and my
son is is the sportsmanshipCause.
I think that's half the battle.
Right, you can be very talented, but you can have a real crappy
sportsmanship.
No one's going to want to playwith you, no one's going to want
you on their team eventually.
I mean, and I think that'sreally an important component
(35:22):
that a lot of people don't get,and I've seen it at a lot of
tournaments that we've been partof.
At black biscuit, where we'responsoring, I'm like wow, like
you know where's thesportsmanship, like you know,
that's an important thing.
You know, after the game you goup to the other goalie and you
say, good game, right, I meanthat's it.
(35:45):
I mean that's it.
You don't make fun of them.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Yeah, I mean, I think the point and I agree with you
the point with youth sports isto create individuals and
players or individuals who cango outside of the sport and
improve, I guess, the cultureand the society that we live in
right, improve the experience itlive in right, improve the
(36:08):
experience.
Um, it's easy to point thefinger, it's easy to make fun of
somebody when you are in aposition of, let's say, power,
or you're in a position of, uh,maybe you're better skilled in
that specific situation.
But then when the tables arereversed, you know, and, like
you said, how does that make youfeel?
Speaker 2 (36:29):
right, you're on the other side of that equation
right, and you know, I mean, youknow, the same method that I
use in coaching is the samemethod that we use in business.
At black biscuit we don't bashother companies.
I'm sure we get bashed andthat's okay, you know.
You want to talk about me onsocial media?
Great that's.
(36:49):
You know, that's flattery.
I look at it, right, you know it, it, it it comes down to if you
want to be respected, you needto respect others, right, and
you need it's just as importantto be, you know, have great
sportsmanship on their ice as itis off the ice.
(37:11):
You know, and when you'replaying, even off the ice, you
still are a reflection of theteam you're playing on.
You know, and you don't wantthat bad persona pushed off to
you.
Like, oh, look at that guy.
Like you know what a pompousperson.
Like, oh, he's so arrogant, orshe's so arrogant, oh my god.
Like, oh god, we can't wait toplay them because you know what
(37:34):
we're gonna really like.
I know it's a no checkingleague, but you know we're just
we're gonna try to hurt them.
Yeah, I've heard kids say that,you know, at 10 years old, like
that's not something that anycoach should condone at all.
You know I've been lucky enough.
Like I said, I'm not.
(37:55):
I haven't seen it on my teams.
Now I'm not saying that thekids might not like each other,
but I've never seen anybody onmy team go after anybody.
You know, they're alwaysprofessional.
I try them, I try to tell themto be.
You know, just remember, youare a reflection of the team.
(38:15):
So on the ice is the same thingon the bench after the game.
You know it's a game, it's onlyone, it's an n of one, right?
It's not like you knowthere's's a game, it's only one,
it's an N of one, right?
It's not like you know, there'salways the next game.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
So you know and I love that you touched on the
fact that you're, you know, aparent coach.
I'm a parent coach as well.
I have three boys playinghockey, so I get to you know,
I've been coaching for the pastlike all over a decade now and
coaching other kids and on myown.
It's a little different whenyour own kid's on the bench than
when they're not, so you haveto be very mindful and aware of
(38:56):
that, of course.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
But I wanted to ask you to kind of bring us back a
little bit to the beginning ofthe conversation and maybe you
could talk a little bit aboutthe difference between how you
were parented and what you'redoing now with your kid so the
way I was parented was, you know, my parents instilled in me at
(39:20):
a young age that you need,whatever you're going to do you,
you need to give it your allright, whether it be playing on
the soccer team, playing tennis,playing hockey, cub Scouts,
religious school school rightand friendships right.
(39:42):
What you get in is what you'regoing to get out.
If you take, take, take, take,take, eventually your friends go
from here to here.
So that's how I was parented.
My parents didn't baby me.
But again, this is an era wherewe would come home from school
(40:03):
and my mother would say don'tcome home until your father
comes home.
And my father didn't get homeuntil 730.
Like, didn't know, there wereno cell phones, she didn't know
where we were.
She just said don't get hit bya car, right?
So I think it's a differentworld now, where parents are
superly overprotective, which Idon't necessarily disagree with.
(40:25):
I think I I wouldn't say I'moverly protective I want my son
to, you know, and I have astepdaughter who's 20, in
college and, you know, led alittle bit of a sheltered life.
So it's, it's, I want her toget out and experience the, the
love and the breakup and the.
Oh, my God, I should not havedrawn vodka on a thursday night.
(40:50):
When I had class on friday Igot I'm horrible, right.
Or my little guy, you know,experience some of these things.
So these are life lessons, sothey understand, instead of just
having this bubble and oh,you're a perfect little kid,
right.
And I think that's what mylittle guy says is oh, dad, you
know, you're screaming on thebench.
(41:10):
I'm like well, you got to coverthe slot right.
Like if somebody's there andyou're not seeing it, what do
you want me to do?
Like I'm your coach, I got totell you to cover the slot right
.
Your players aren't telling youthat because they don't
understand it.
So I think again, that's partLike we didn't have really
organized lessons like they donow with learn to play, and we
(41:34):
kind of taught ourselves right,we taught ourselves on a video
game like Nintendo 64 orwhatever in television like
learn how to play, like wedidn't know what offsides was
Nobody.
You know, we played dodgeballin in elementary school so it
was really it's a lot of tryingto get them to understand the
(41:54):
fundamentals and, you know,doing what my parents did, where
I wouldn't say give them enoughrope to hang themselves.
But let them be kids, right?
I don't think I'd let mynine-year-old now, like my
mother and father did, ride hisbike to the rink.
But it's, you know, lettingthem be kids, let let them
(42:15):
experience and make sure thatyou know, within reason, that
they're they're they're makingthose right decisions earlier.
Right, I think, decisionsearlier, right.
I think we lived, I mean, when Igrew up in the, you know, the
late 70s, early 80s.
It was a real different world.
You know, you didn't have theinternet, you didn't have social
(42:37):
media, you didn't have a cellphone, you didn't have Snapchat
or Instagram or I don't evenknow all these other apps.
Right, you know, you don't likea kid.
You got into an argument at theschool and the next day you
were best friends with him.
So it was just a very differentworld now.
There was no bullying and therewas no, you know, little bit
(43:03):
protective.
But you also need to give thechild enough confidence that
they can make these decisionswithin reason at their age and
making the right decisions right.
I can only steer them right.
I think that's really it, um,you know I mean listen, like
(43:24):
everyone.
Well, as you grow up, yousometimes make the bad choices
and you're like, oh my God, Iprobably shouldn't have done
that.
But you know it is what it isright, you know, and you know
the punishment's going to comeand you know, all right, you
can't watch TV.
This was the wipehead, likethat, was it.
You know I had to read a bookor actually do something.
(43:45):
You know, go out and clean theyard.
So it's.
I think that's a lot of what Itry to do.
I try to instill, likeresponsibilities right, like my
little guy, you know it.
Just make your bed in themorning.
Right, it's your bed.
You have to take pride in it.
Like, take pride in what you doand make sure you.
(44:07):
The one thing that my parentssaid and I think I said this
earlier was they made sure thatI gave it 100% when I was
playing goalie in soccer.
That's it.
I was laser focused on makingsure that I was playing goalie
and I was present.
I think that's it.
I wasn't preoccupied Again.
(44:29):
We didn't have, growing up, alot of these exterior factors
that are around.
We had soccer practice threedays a week.
There was no option to miss itbecause you had something else
to do or didn't want to go.
You went miss it because youhad something else to do or
(44:49):
didn't want to go.
You went rain, shine, foggy,cold.
Right now it's.
You know, it's a.
You know what?
John doesn't feel well today.
He's not gonna go.
What do you mean?
What do you mean he's not gonnago there?
There's a practice.
So you know, I tell my littleguy listen, you got to take
pride in what you do and makesure when you are doing it you
(45:13):
need to give it 100% Now.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
you know we you know in our childhood we were more
self-motivated to do things thanyou know it is now, with all
the distractions and socialmedia and the games and
computers.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
I think so, a hundred percent, I think so.
I think that we wanted what weput our mind to.
We did what we put our mind to,we did.
If we wanted to learn abouthockey or soccer or football,
either you played the sport, youtried it, or you actually went
(45:57):
to the library and took a bookout and had a read about it.
Right, right, there was novideo on watching what hockey is
and what the positions are, orfootball or soccer, or you know.
So I think it.
Yeah, I mean, obviously, youknow, like we talked about
(46:20):
equipment and uniforms, itevolves, right.
So technology evolved.
Now you have have ai, which isa whole other thing.
So everything's at thefingertips here.
These kids don't have to liftanything.
They could just go on to momand dad's phone if they don't
have an ipad or a book orwhatever they have at school and
(46:40):
at their fingertips they canwatch 1700 videos on how to
skate, how to stop, how to stick, handle the proper positioning
of equipment.
I mean, you name it, it's there, it's really at their
fingertips.
So I think, yeah, I think wewere much more motivated to
(47:03):
really figure it out, learn, doit properly, because there was
no other way for us to do itRight.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
And I also think that you know to your point, when we
talk about equipment going to astore and trying on those
skates and trying out that stick, and trying out that equipment
it was an experience in itselfthat now a lot of people are
starting to miss, becauseeverything is internet-based.
You ordered it, you didn't likeit, you sent it back, you
ordered a different one, and sothey're missing that component
(47:36):
that you were talking about.
When you walk into a store andyou have a person who works
there, who can guide you andhelp you with the fit and help
you with the right equipment,and you feel like you just
walked out with all this stuffand it just gives you this
euphoric kind of experience thatyou know I think kids are
starting to miss a little bit,yeah I mean I'll tell you, I own
(47:57):
the hockey depot, right, so I'mbuying all my equipment at cost
, but I still go to pure hockeyand get fitted, and you know
what, I'd rather pay retail andknow I'm getting the right thing
, which will kill me, right,because I know what I'm, the
skates cost.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
But we, because we are internet based, we don't
have that personal touch, right,which I think is missing.
But you know, in this day andage to, oh, you know, you, it's
very hard to go up a guy againsta guy like pure hockey, right,
that has 800 stores, right.
(48:38):
So I mean it's interestingbecause we're trying to test
something out in at tampa, atthe black biscuit headquarters,
is making a concierge type ofprivate fitting for goalies with
vaughn hockey equipment andgraph skates, because that, we
(49:03):
feel, is a market that nobody'stouching.
Right, and you don't, no one'sbuying a pair of $1,999 pads on
the internet, right, right.
So the same really should holdtrue for a lot of this hockey
equipment.
Now, a granted, maybe you go tothe store, you get sized and
(49:26):
then you order it somewhere elsebecause you have a 10% off
coupon.
But at the end of the day, Imean I can't stress it enough
and I tell this to all the kidsyou have to make sure the
equipment is fitted properly andit has to fit you properly,
otherwise it's not protective atall.
It doesn't matter what brand itis, I don't care how much you
(49:48):
spend on it, I don't really carewhat it is, but you, you know,
and you can even go to a plateagainst sports and get something
used right A shin guard.
You know that someone outgrewis will be okay.
You know you don't need toinvest hundreds or thousands of
(50:09):
dollars into equipment until youknow number one, you really
love it and you're at that levelwhere you need that type of
equipment.
I mean, I think that's reallythe misnomer.
I mean I don't know what eightor nine-year-old kid needs.
(50:31):
A Bauer $299 or $399 tracerstick?
I don't get it, but you knowyeah.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
Right, Because you know yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
Right, because somebody has it out there.
You know it's, it's, it's, it'sthe factor, so you know.
But again it goes back to ifit's, you know, 269 grams.
A 269 gram stick is a 269 gramstick.
It doesn't matter what stickeris on it, it goes down the same
(51:03):
three factories one sticker, onesticker, one sticker right.
Different graphic, right.
So I think that's a lot of whatyou know I try to instill in
the kids.
Don't be so caught up on theequipment name or the brand name
.
Make sure it's comfortable andmake sure that you know you feel
(51:29):
good and it doesn't hurt.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
Right.
I love that because I think youknow, at some point I really
liked the Supreme skates and I'ma power skates kind of guy.
I did have graphs years ago butI kind of switched to power and
they felt better for me and Ijust love the new design, the
yellow and black, and I was likeI got to get these Supremes and
I tried them seven differenttimes and I hated the fit.
(51:55):
It just didn't fit my leg.
I have a narrow foot, so I hadto get the Vapors, fit 1 or
whatever, which fits perfectly,and I was like you know, I skate
and coach probably six days aweek, seven days a week
sometimes, and so for me, havinga good skate is like, you know,
if you're a taxi driver andyou're driving you know, you
(52:19):
have to bicycle people around.
You know it makes a bigdifference if you have the wrong
fit, like you said, because youknow, you're going to be
hurting at the end of the day,correct?
Speaker 2 (52:29):
Correct and I think that that's really the key to it
.
It doesn't really.
I mean you might have yourheart set on that brand or that
specific line within the brand.
You got to just look at it andit's got to be comfortable,
right, because the worst thingyou want is to come off that ice
and have your feet killing you,where you just want to take
(52:52):
your skates off, because onceyou take them off you're not
putting them back on Right?
Speaker 1 (52:56):
I had a funny story.
We had a kid who comes topractice.
He always wore Bauer and all ofa sudden he gets the CCM tax
with a completely different fit.
And so he comes out.
He's tripping all over theplace, can't skate.
And the coach I was with comesout, comes up to the mom and
goes you know, that's not hisfit, that's not the skate he
(53:20):
usually wears.
Why did you get those?
She like well, they're like athousand dollars, like top of
the line ccms.
And he's like well, he's likedo you always buy different
brand shoes for yourself, right?
And she's like yeah, I do.
What's the what's the question?
He's like that was not a goodexample, it's true right again,
and it's exactly what you said.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
Just because it's quote, unquote, top of the line,
doesn't make it a good fit foryou, right?
I mean, you know, uh, you know,when we're selling in the
roller hockey world.
You know a lot of guys that Iknow wear a tour, yep, you know,
and they've been around for along time.
(54:03):
They make a great boot.
They're a fraction of the priceof these other guys and you're
not paying into the marketing,right?
And again, it really comes downto looking at like in the NHL,
right?
I mean, sherwood's been aroundforever, forever, forever.
I mean Sherwood's been aroundforever, forever.
Nobody wanted their sticks untilBedard decided to sign with
(54:25):
them.
Now, you can't keep them all in, right, you know, you have the
top players using a bow or astick.
Well, that's why you're paying$1,000 for those skates.
(54:46):
Me, you're not getting the nhllevel skate that any of these
guys are skating in right at athousand dollars, right?
So they're all custom molded totheir feet, you know, they know
exactly what they're doing.
Yes, they could have that outershell, that outer color, but
it's.
You know, it's nothing like theskate.
(55:07):
They're not walking into Bauerheadquarters or CCM headquarters
and saying I'm going to justtake that skate.
Thanks, just I'll take it inone and a half Right.
Speaker 1 (55:16):
So I'm out.
Speaker 2 (55:18):
Correct, you know.
So it's, yeah, it's an.
It's a very interesting conceptin terms of, you know, again,
it's big dollars, right, I meanit doesn't, you could take it.
I mean you could look at it inanybody, right, any brand,
multinational brands, I mean,you know, you could look at
(55:40):
Rolex, rolex, right, a timex anda casio does the same thing.
A rolex does tells time,probably better than the rolex,
right, because it's not losingtime on a battery until the
battery dies.
So at the end of the day, it,it's the marketing, it's, it's,
it's, oh, it's the status, right, you know, and I don't know, I
(56:07):
never really bought into that, Ididn't really care.
Um, you know, if it wascomfortable when I was younger,
I mean, I have very flat feet,so everything hurts but if it
was, if I could keep the skateson for 30 minutes, great that.
That, that was the winner forme, right?
So at the end of the day, itreally didn't matter.
(56:28):
And I think that that's what Itry to get back to the kids.
Like, it doesn't matter whatstick you're not going to play
better because you're using thatstick or that helmet or that
glove like, or those wheels like, you know, all those blades
like it.
It it needs to work for you andif it happens to be that
(56:49):
thousand dollars gig, great.
But you know oh, great point.
Speaker 1 (56:55):
Thank you, john.
I know at the top of the hour,so I usually like to close out
the show with a few quickfirequestions, so I'll start with
the first one, which is what doyou think motivates athletes?
Speaker 2 (57:11):
So I think what motivates athletes is, again,
loving what they do.
I think if you look at the NHLright, these guys love what they
do every day.
They really do, you know, and,yes, I think money is a
(57:31):
motivator, but it's, you know.
Then you look at baseball right, and you look at what happened
with Juan Soto right, yankeesversus Mets 700 and something
million.
You flip teams.
It's not about the money, it'sabout the camaraderie that these
guys make, right.
You look at the Capitals thathave been together forever.
You look at the Islanders thathave been together forever right
(57:54):
, yes, they're not winning, butthese guys have been cohesive.
And you look at these teamslike Dallas I was watching the
game earlier and you got TylerSagan, who's been with them
since 2013.
These guys, they love what theydo and they love who they're
playing with.
So I think that's really whatmotivates athletes.
(58:14):
You've got to love what you doand put 100% of it into what
you're doing, and it doesn'tmatter what sport it is.
Speaker 1 (58:24):
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (58:24):
Right.
Speaker 1 (58:25):
Awesome, yeah, second question here is if you could
name three character traits thatyou notice in successful
athletes, what would they be?
Speaker 2 (58:34):
So I think the three traits that I see is, you know,
always wanting to give the go,the extra mile right, being
coachable, you know, and lookingto help the weaker player.
I think that's an amazing trait.
(58:54):
When I see players do that at ayoung age, I think that's great
, because that that shows them,that me, that they have
compassion right, with which Ithink this world needs a little
more, quite honestly.
And I I really love when I seethat, like you know, when, um
and I'm not telling them to sayit and they're you know, they
(59:16):
say, oh, don't worry, it's okay,you know talking to them on the
bench and you know reallytrying to make them.
You know say, oh, don't worry,it's okay, you know talking to
them on the bench and you knowreally trying to make them.
Speaker 1 (59:23):
You know, be better, which I think is great, that's
wonderful.
And last one is the opposite.
Maybe you could talk aboutthree things that you think hold
athletes back.
What would they be?
Speaker 2 (59:32):
so I think the three things that hold athletes back
is the arrogance that I'm thebest I can can't be taught.
I know everything Right,Somebody that you know and I
think this falls into the samecategory but not coachable.
So that would probably be one.
(59:53):
The second one would be thatthey're not passionate about
what they're doing right, orthey're being forced into it for
whatever reason, and then notbeing, I think, having
(01:00:14):
confidence in themselves, evenif they're learning the game,
whatever game that is to havethe confidence or lack of
confidence.
I think that's really like oh,I'm never going to be that good,
or I'm never going to score agoal, or I'm never going to be
able to keep up with that player.
I kind of disagree with that,but I think that, yes, you might
(01:00:37):
not be going to the NHL or youmight not be playing D1, but
have confidence in yourself.
Don't sabotage yourself beforeyou've been able to evolve.
Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
I love that, john.
This has been a phenomenalconversation.
John, this has been aphenomenal conversation.
I'm really excited about the.
You know a lot of things wetalked about, especially you
know committing to your task,and I'm really excited for Black
Biscuit and partying with youguys.
Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
Yes, really great.
I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Yeah, me too.
I mean I'm excited, I like whatyou guys stand for, I love the
character and you know what wetalked about before we even
started the show.
Talking about working with kids, and not necessarily the
highest tier one levels, butactually tier two and tier three
, and there's learn to plays andand really giving those kids
the opportunity to feel like amillion bucks, right and yeah, I
(01:01:36):
mean we do that a lot on oursocial media.
Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
You know we want these kids to have their 15
minute.
You know that 15 seconds offame, 15 minutes of fame,
whatever they're saying is, andyou know it's it's.
There's only so many tier LikeI said to you earlier, there's
only so many tier one athletesRight, there's only so many in
the world of the Ovechkins, the,the Matthews, the Bedards, the
(01:02:01):
Celebrinis, there's a lot moreTier 2 and a boatload more Tier
3 that are super talented.
So you know, we love thosetypes of programs because those
are the programs.
When we outfit them, we see thesmiles on their faces.
We love that they have someinput in the designs and we love
(01:02:25):
them.
We see them for the first timeputting the uniform on.
They're like wow, like youcould see that they're glowing.
They're like we feel like amillion bucks and we look like a
million bucks.
And that's just the best partabout owning a company that is
not super big.
(01:02:45):
I own it.
You can get me on the phone.
When you get my email, it's mycell phone number.
You need me on a Saturday.
You can call us.
I don't sit behind a big deskwith 17 people in front of me.
So those are the type of thingsthat makes it a family.
Like once you buy from blackbiscuit, we, you're part of the
(01:03:08):
family.
So the more stuff you send us,the more we put you on social
media, and all these kids nowwith social media love to see
them up there.
Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
You know, and so you know we love it, we love it,
love it wonderful and, for thoseof you guys listening, if you
want to check out black biscuit,you can go to
wwwblack-biscuitcom.
That's wwwblack-biscuitcom.
C-u-l-t, dot, c-o-m or dot com.
(01:03:41):
Well, john, thank you again fortaking the time.
I know it's quite late, but Ireally appreciate it.
It was a phenomenalconversation.
I hope that everybody who islistening learned something new
today and can take it away withthem, and I look forward to
supporting some Black Biscuit.
Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
Yes, at the Lobster Cup.
And, yeah, bring home somehardware for us, post it on
social, and I look forward tosupporting some black biscuit.
Yes, yeah, bring home somehardware for us, post it on
social.
Send it to Tom.
We'll do our best, we'll loveit.
Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
We'll love it thank you so much thank you, thank you
everybody for listening andhave a wonderful evening, thank
(01:04:33):
you.
Good evening everybody and welcome to the
Podolsky Method podcast.
It's great to be back witheverybody here tonight.
I am your host, ilya Podolsky.
I'm a level five user hockeymaster coach, creator and host
of the Podolsky Method podcast.
Owner and operator of skatesharpening shop called Sharp
Skate, new York, usa Hockeycoach developer and a CPA by
(00:57):
trade on the side, and I'd liketo introduce to you guys a few
of our sponsors here.
And I'd like to introduce toyou guys a few of our sponsors
here Print Only With Us, a fullprinting shop here in New York
City where you could get yourT-shirts, caps, gears and much,
(01:18):
much more.
For those of you guys lookingfor protection for your teeth
and you're playing hockey, checkout Wargate Hockey for a cage
that goes over your visor.
Check out Wargate Hockey for acage that goes over your visor.
Get 10% off with the code10PODOLSKIY.
How is hockey?
Of course, as usual, get 10%off with them at PODOLSKIY10.
(01:39):
Check out the New York JuniorRangers programming.
We are done for this year, butwe're back in September.
There's plenty of camps, ballhockey and a ton of wonderful
events for those kids that arelooking to start or continue to
play and you want to get intothe game with the New York
Rangers.
There's alumni involved andactive players as well.
(02:01):
So definitely encourage youguys to take a look at nhlcom.
Slash rangers, slash community,slash youth dash hockey.
It's really a great sport.
Also, check outsagaciousmindsorg, which is a
non-for-profit organizationgeared towards working with kids
with disabilities and withoutthrough sport.
(02:24):
I am involved heavily with ourorganization.
It's a wonderful, wonderfultask.
But let's get to the point heretonight and we have a wonderful
guest with me John from BlackBiscuit LLC.
John has a bachelor degree, heis a trader by trade and he's an
owner of Hockey Depot andBlockBiscuit.
(02:47):
John, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Thanks for having us Really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Of course it's my pleasure and I'm actually proud
to partner with you guys for ourspring tournament team at the
Lobster Fest in Rhode Islandcoming June 13th.
So we're excited about that,Really excited to work with you
guys.
So maybe you could start alittle bit by telling folks a
little bit about yourself andwhat sports you played growing
(03:14):
up and a little bit about yourbackground.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Sure.
So you know, I grew up on LongIsland.
Majority of my sports werereally soccer and tennis.
Sports were really soccer andtennis.
Um, we dabbled in deck hockey,slash back in the early 1980s
when micron came out with theroller hockey skate.
Uh, we both, a bunch of us had,uh, microns and we, you know,
(03:40):
chased the old ladies off thetennis courts and, you know,
carried the nets on our bicycleson our head and, you know,
played pickup roller hockey, youknow.
And that continued through highschool.
In college we started, you know, our college deck hockey team
and ever since then, you know,from probably 16 on, you know,
(04:02):
playing hockey.
You, you know, dabbled in icehockey for a little bit till I
hurt my knee and then we startedbacking down into a roller
again that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
I actually come with the roller background as well.
Um, you know, I probably talkeda little bit about this on the
show, but I don't know if I didin extensively.
Uh, friend of mine, antonAntipov, who is a bodybuilder,
he was actually a guest on theshow as well.
He, we went to some junior highschool.
He called me up one day andsaid let's go play hockey.
(04:33):
And I had no idea what it was.
So we just bought roll bladesthat had those wooden wheels on
them and you know, those 99cents hockey sticks with rubber
that just rubbed off in threeminutes and we just went out and
played and you know we used todo.
You know, at some point itconverted to like seven hours a
day and you know, you startlooking at the equipment and
(04:55):
look at the gear and you know,started to really learn about
that stuff yep, yep, we, we didthat as well.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
We all picked up the my election pads, the my like
goalie pads that would rip afteryou slid on them, that my like
sticks that had the littlecircular, you know, in there, so
you can really shoot the ball,which is what we were using.
Right, it's a makeshiftfootball helmet that we kind of
(05:24):
put some weird, weird plexiglasson, so it was crazy.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, it's interesting how innovative you
were.
I think we used the electrictape as a puck because, you know
, once you rub it off, it becamesmooth, right, yep.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
We used tennis balls and then we moved up to a
lacrosse ball with tape, whichhurt a lot, and then we went
back down to tennis balls andthen we tried with the puck, but
it just didn't really work, sowe stuck with the ball folks a
(06:03):
little bit about Black Biscuit,and I know you sent me some
background about the company andI thought it was really
interesting how that transpired,so maybe you could talk a
little bit about that.
Sure.
So Black Biscuit was a threeperson creation back in 1994.
They were three guys from theLA area and they had a lot of
(06:25):
buddies playing pro beach rollerhockey and a lot of the guys
were wearing shorts and no shinguards.
And they asked the guys atBlack Biscuit initially to come
up with some kind of pant not asweat pant but a pant.
So they created the rollerhockey pant essentially.
(06:45):
You know they were the og androller hockey.
Um, you know, to this day somepeople still have them.
I actually still do those.
Those pants were heavy duty,nylon and codora, virtually
indestructible, um, but know, asthe sport evolves, so does the
(07:08):
equipment right.
So you know, black Biscuit thenmorphed into jerseys and, you
know, as the Hockey Depot.
We were one of the firstinternet dealers selling Black
Biscuit online, dealing with thecollege when they started the
NCRHA, which was awesome.
(07:29):
We dealt with a lot of collegesbefore all of this licensing
came into town and thenBlackBiscuit kind of disappeared
for a little while.
There was one of the partnersleft, the other partner left,
the third partner that was leftwith it.
That stuck with it, rather gotinto a little bit of a legal
battle with the fabricmanufacturer overseas and lost
(07:55):
the case, but the trademark wasgiven to the fabric company that
did nothing with it, companythat did nothing with it.
So while the Hockey Depot wasstill around, we were still
selling a lot of hockeyequipment.
You know whether it be barrelwarrior.
Ccm, you know true, wasn'taround then.
Sherwood was a big one,christian brothers was a big one
(08:17):
.
I was watching the trademarkbecause I saw how unique black
biscuit was.
I knew the guys there and whenthe trademark went dormant I
grabbed it and I brought backone of the original partners to
we what I would call biscuit 2.0.
(08:37):
And that was in 2012.
And we relaunched in 2012.
And it was a very differentworld than what the original
business partner who I broughtin knew.
And we brought back theoriginal pants and nobody wanted
(09:01):
them and nobody wanted them.
They wanted the lighter pantsthat Mission was making or Bauer
was making, and nobody caredthat they ripped after two games
.
They just wanted a lighter pant.
So, fast forward.
We real quickly pivoted,started making those pants
lighter better, the biscuit way,which was that flair of that
(09:25):
old school pro pant which we nowcall the player pant.
And we introduced somethingcalled the arrow pant, which is
a little bit more on the taperedside and we saw the need that
if we're selling teams, pants,sublimation was there.
Pants sublimation was there andthe factory that we own a
(09:51):
percentage of startedintroducing us to sublimation
and we found it great.
So we started making sublimatedjerseys to match the pants and
now you had teams matching pantsand jerseys.
And now, fast forward to 2025,and now fast forward to 2025,
we're just dominating thismarket in sublimated jerseys and
pants, and we've always doneice hockey, but ice hockey is a
(10:12):
very big piece for us as well,because the beauty of
sublimation is whatever you candream about, it can really
become reality.
And that's part of what we sayis we have your vision become
reality.
(10:32):
And if you look at our websiteand want to peruse and go into
our design vault, those are allactual teams that wear our
jerseys.
They are not concepts.
We are not a template company.
You guys might think that oneof these designs is so cool and
we want our colors, and theanswer is, unfortunately, no, we
(10:52):
won't do that.
We will not have numerous teamshaving similar designs and I
think that's one of the realcool things about BlackBiscuit.
You've chosen us and we want youknow, know, half of the battle
is looking good, feeling good,you play good, right?
So that's really how weposition this company.
You know, it's a fun companyand it's always been known as
(11:15):
the fun company.
You know, and you know, aswe're getting into this new era
of hockey, delivery is important.
More important than that isreally quality, you know, and a
reasonable price, right?
(11:35):
Yeah, hockey is expensive,whether you play roller or ice
or even deck hockey, you know.
So you want to make sure thatthe equipment that you're
wearing, including your uniform,is going to last, and that is
one of the founding principlesthat we strive to make sure that
(11:57):
everything goes throughnumerous quality control tests
before they're shipped.
And you know, here we are andyou know we're thriving.
You know, we were acquired byThunder Bay Hockey, thunder Bay
Holding Company, which now holdsthe Hockey Depot, black Biscuit
(12:20):
and some of the other sistercompanies the Skate Depot and
All-Star Athletics.
So we're getting in the rightdirection of where we want to be
as a vertically integratedcompany.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Awesome.
It sounds like an amazingjourney, starting from going
from all the way to thebeginning in the original.
You know the original productand kind of like evolving over
time um.
But speaking about you knowevolution and speaking about how
the equipment has changed, Ithink one of the things that I
(12:55):
noticed in in hockey playersspecifically is, with um, with
better equipment, there is alittle bit less of that fear
factor when kids play the game.
And you know, especially whenyou're talking about youth and
if you talk about those old Jofahelmets, right, that people
(13:16):
used to wear, which had verylittle protection, you know you
could bump your head and get aconcussion very easily.
Now these things absorb theenergy of the impact so well
that you know it's actuallygetting harder for you to get
injured, and so maybe you couldtalk a little bit about the
(13:37):
evolution of the products interms of just safety and how
that impacts the athletes.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Sure, I mean.
So I think, if you think backto the 1980s, when you're
talking about Jofa right andCooper and watching, you know
old clips of the NHL with thesegoalie masks that, literally,
you know, look like the MichaelMyers mask, right it's, these
guys got hurt, right, it's avery different game than it is
(14:09):
now and these guys played withminimal, minimal protection,
right.
So I think, if you're lookingat ice hockey versus roller or
deck, right, you had two sets ofequipment.
You had the Milek FranklinWorld, right, and then you had
the CCM, bauer, to a lesserdegree, cooper, jofa, right, I
(14:37):
mean they all kind of came underumbrella companies, umbrella
companies.
And then you know, you fastforward to now and you have true
sherwood, you know powerwarrior, and everything has
become like you said, ilia.
You know protection.
(14:57):
You know a helmet cost 50 bucksand that was probably a lot a
long time ago.
Now you can't get a helmet for50 bucks.
You know that you would feelcomfortable playing any type of
hockey other than, basically,pickup hockey, which you know is
(15:18):
not going to be physical, asphysical as you know competitive
hockey.
So you know we see a lot ofinnovation going in.
You know we speak to a lot ofthe companies that manufacture
this stuff.
We've, you know, been to thefactories that make it and the
technology is is amazing.
(15:39):
It's.
I think it's only going to getbetter, you know.
But what we've noticed is, inthe roller world, that equipment
disappeared.
It's now only basically icehockey.
So shin guards are shin guards,right, elbow pads are elbow
(15:59):
pads, gloves are gloves stickseveryone's using a composite
stick.
I think the abs, composite absstick that everyone used in
roller or street or deck is gone, you know.
So it's watching these.
The equipment become better,lighter, more durable and
(16:23):
lasting more than 29 or 32 days,being more, you know, having
the right flex, the right curve,and it's, I mean.
And then you get into theskates where you can physically
mold your foot at any age andget a skate that's not going to
(16:44):
hurt your foot and take weeks tobreak in.
I think it's just, it'sfascinating for us as we
continue to, you know, talk toall these guys and watch what
they're doing, you know.
But then again you have thatvery crowded market, right,
everyone's doing it.
You know, the ones that reallydid it first were graph, you
(17:05):
know.
And where are they now?
Right, you know?
Yeah, they're coming backthrough vaughn.
You know, michael vaughn, he'sa visionary, right, you know,
makes incredible goalieequipment and he is, he owns the
graph line now.
So it's you know.
But they were the og and those,those custom skates, and you
know, you see it with True, yousee it with Bauer, you see it
(17:27):
with CCM.
You know those are the big guys.
You know what makes a Trueskate better than a Bauer or CCM
?
That I don't know.
You know, I don't know, but Ithink it's.
They're all making sure thatthe protection is just getting
better, better, better, right.
(17:47):
And I think part two of it isyou have guys like tj yoshi of
war road, right of thewashington capitals, backing war
road and wearing the neckguards right after,
unfortunately, you know, thatplayer overseas died and it's.
It's about making sure that.
(18:09):
You know.
I think, with the way in whichthis equipment and this even
goes, you know, for jerseys andpants, right, it has to fit
properly.
You have to make sure that thisstuff fits.
There's no such thing as twomore socks.
There's no such thing as, oh,we're gonna buy a half a size
bigger, it's gotta fit, whetherit's a shin guard, a glove, an
(18:30):
elbow pad, a skate a stick.
You know, that's why they makeall these different sizes and
all these different flexes andall these different.
You know, fit two, fit one, fitthree, narrow, double e, you
know something in the middle.
So it's, I like the fact thateveryone's evolving and and
(18:51):
continuing to make things better, right, and not price gouging
people.
Oh, you want that helmet, it'seight hundred dollars.
You know that, that I think thatthat's the beauty of what I'm
seeing, that there's it's a anda lot more safety as well.
Coming from the, from the nhl,right back when I was watching
(19:11):
it, and probably when you werewatching it in the early 80s, I
don't know if there wassomething called player safety.
You know, I don't think anybodyever mentioned that right,
right.
So you know, I think it reallycomes down to, you know, I mean,
and we could probably thank theNFL for this right, because
they are the ones that reallyearly, really early on putting
concussion protocol.
And now you know, you see allthe leagues, whether it be Major
(19:33):
League Baseball, nhl, the PWHL,right, everyone's doing player
safety, right, right.
And you know, I think and Ilike the fact that all of the
companies and also, inparticular, we try to make sure
that you know everything's onthe up and up and it's really
(19:54):
just continuing to get better.
Like how can we integrate agirdle?
Do people want to wear a girdlewith a pair of roller hockey
pants or one of our shells, ordo they prefer to go buy their
own girdle?
One of our shelves or do theyprefer to go buy their own
girdle?
Right?
I think that's what we try tofigure out.
Talk to customers, talk toother teams and you know the
(20:17):
consensus so far is kids like topick their own girdle, whether
it be a shock doctor or CCM.
So you know what.
We're not doing it.
Let them wear what they want towear, right?
Yeah, I love that we're notdoing it.
Let them wear what they want towear right.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, I love that, and so you know, you mentioned
the difference in the equipmentstyle right in different fits.
So one question I wanted to askyou is and we have a lot of
(20:50):
listeners on the show who are,you know, beginners and just
getting the kid on the ice forthe first time or just starting
out hockey versus people who are, you know, at a higher level,
maybe tier two, tier one, even,you know, maybe some of the
college players, um, so whatwould you say, um, what would be
your recommendation for, uh,somebody who is like an entry
level player and what theyshould look for when they're
looking for equipment, versussomebody who's more experienced?
Speaker 2 (21:04):
so I, I think you know, if you're planning to put
your child in ice hockey andit's a learn to skate type of
program I mean, you mentioned itas one of the sponsors right,
new York Rangers, backslashcommunity, backslash youth
hockey that's your biggest bangfor the buck.
(21:24):
You're getting skates helmet,you name it.
You're getting the full kit for$3.50, something like that,
right, I think?
Last I saw and you know it'sgoing to be fit correctly, right
.
So you know, and it's also, Ithink, going to the stores and
getting the right person.
(21:44):
It's also, I think, going tothe stores and getting the right
person, whether it be HockeyMonkey or Pure Hockey, which
seems to be the 900-poundgorilla and making sure you're
comfortable with the salesperson.
(22:05):
That I even tell my kids when Icoach is don't be afraid to
tell the salesperson or your momor your dad something doesn't
feel right.
Just don't buy it.
To buy it, make sure it fits,make sure it's comfortable.
You know, yeah, the skatesyou're going to have to break in
a little.
That's just the way it is.
I mean, it's come a long waysince you know I was skating on,
you know, sherbrooks orwhatever that, whatever they
(22:28):
were, when my dad threw me ontoa pond, but it's the proper fit,
right, and I don't know whatthat is.
You know, in one skate I'm afit two and the other skate I'm
a fit three makes no sense,right, my feet are flat, as can
be, but everything fitsdifferently.
And don't feel that you have tobe brand loyal.
You can wear true gloves,sherwood shin guards, bauer
(22:54):
skates and a CCM helmet.
It does not matter.
It has to feel comfortable andit has to fit properly, and I
think that's that, that's the,that's what the advice that I
give everybody that asks me.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
I love that.
Yeah, I think it's so importantto make sure that you actually
enjoying your gear and I thinkso many people, like you said
like they go for the maybe moreexpensive brand new you know, a
thousand dollar pair of skatesbut then they hate it Right.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
The shiny new toy is not necessarily the best.
And just because it costs $499,I can tell you, a composite
stick at 325 grams is acomposite stick, 325 grams.
It doesn't matter if it saysWarrior, true Bauer, ccm,
(23:49):
sherwood or some no-name, right.
And if you look at the NHL,yeah, you're going to see the
big boys, but if you watchOvechkin, there's no name on his
stick, right, right, but it'shis stick, right.
So at the end of the day, itdoesn't really matter what the
name is.
The grams is the grams.
(24:11):
You have to be comfortable withthe way it feels, the way it
fits with you and the curve,because the curve is the curve.
Everyone does a P88 or a P92 ora PM9.
So I tried to explain that tomy, my little guy, who you know
(24:33):
uses a lot of sherwood, right, Ithink sherwood is the biggest
bang for the buck, to be honestwith you, um, you know.
And I tell him hey, if it'sgood enough of, you know, conor
Bedard and Matthew Kachuk, it'sgood enough for you.
So it's, you know, the marketingbehind any of these brands.
(24:56):
It's big dollars, right?
Does you know?
Does an Air Jordan make youjump higher?
No, but everybody wanted them,right, and me too, I wanted
three pairs.
So it's, you know, don't.
I would say again, don't buyinto the marketing.
(25:18):
Just because it's a $499 skateor a $299 stick Does it make you
going to shoot harder?
Does it make you going to passfaster?
The skates aren't going to makeyou skate faster.
It has to fit and make sure it'scomfortable, and the same goes
with jerseys and socks.
If you're, you know, a smallerperson, you want to make sure
(25:43):
you have an 18 or 20-inch sock,not a 24-inch sock.
Make sure your jersey is nothanging down almost to your
knees, so that also comes intoplay.
With the proper fit, it evengets down to the socks you use.
Don't use a thick sock, use aski sock or a thin, thin skate
(26:04):
sock.
They're relatively inexpensive.
It doesn't matter the brand,that's.
I think that's the thing.
It has to be comfortable andyou have to feel the fit and
make sure everything you knowaligns correctly.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yeah, I think you know it's such a good point and
it kind of translates so well tothe actual game as well.
Right, if you think aboutpeople chasing triple a, you
know these like letters, thesenumbers, and they kind of
sometimes forget the actualexperience, what happens on the
(26:40):
ice, right?
Um, you know, and it's sad tosee that because it's you know,
the actual experience is whatreally matters and you want your
kid to enjoy his time and notcome over the ice with boosters
all over the place, right.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
And I think a lot of the parents have to remember
they're kids, they are kids.
They like their video games too.
They like still running intomom and dad's bed at 10, 30 at
night because they can't sleepright.
They're still little kids, even12 year olds, like.
So, like, don't be so hard onthem, let them still be a kid,
(27:23):
right.
Uh, then know, not everyone'sgoing to be a Wayne Gretzky or
an Ovechkin or a Kachuk or aConor Bedard or a Celebrini.
Let them play at the level thatthey're at.
I'm not saying, don't push themif you feel that they can do
better, but let them be kids.
(27:45):
I think that's what I'm coaching.
It's okay if they fall and missthe puck.
You know I'm not gonna makethem feel bad.
That's listen, it is what it isright.
I mean that does.
The kid's self-esteem isn't anybetter.
He knows he missed the puck orshe missed the puck, right.
You don't need to make it worse.
(28:07):
You don't need to penalize theperson either.
So you know, when I'm coachingit's you have to be the kid's
advocate as well, and I thinkthat's a big part of the game
that a lot of coaches or I don't, I shouldn't say a lot of
coaches.
(28:27):
A handful of coaches miss, andthe parents miss, right, they
want their kid to be the best,they want them to be the rock
star.
But you know I use there's no Iin team, right, so together
each achieve more.
That's my mentality when I'mout there coaching and trying to
(28:47):
teach my little guys how toplay.
And we have a co-ed league thatI coach in and it's just
different skill sets, right?
You know we have a first lineand a second line.
The first line is a littleweaker, the second one's a
little stronger.
But you know what Like if they,if they feel like they've
(29:09):
contributed, that's great.
I want them to feel happy.
The last thing I want to dobefore every game I have a
little motto.
I say what do we want to do atthe end of the game?
And of course some kids say win.
Yeah, of course we want to win.
I said but what happens if wedon't win?
What else do we have to do?
(29:30):
And they said have fun.
I said exactly, that's the mostimportant thing.
You have to have fun in whatyou're doing, because the second
you're not having fun, that'sit.
Yeah, it's not going to be anenjoyable experience for you,
probably.
That's it.
Yeah, it's not going to be.
It's not going to be anenjoyable experience for you,
probably for your mom and dad,cause you're going to be upset,
(29:50):
which means they're going to beupset.
It's not going to be good foryour teammates, right?
It's not an eye sport.
It's not like you're playingsingles tennis.
It's a team sport.
The team does well, we do youdo well.
Does well we do you do well.
The team doesn't do well youdon't do well, right, it can't.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
There's no finger pointing on my team ever.
Yeah, I like that.
And, john, when you, um, Iguess when you take on teams and
you see, let's say, differencein skill, right, because a lot
of co-ed teams I coach a lot ofco-ed teams as well and in youth
hockey, you, we know that a lotof times we don't select kids.
We take kids that come totryouts, we try to put them on
(30:35):
teams and we try to build all ofthem up.
We try to put them, I guess, onteams of equal skills, just so
they're having more of thatcompetitive engagement.
Right, you don't want somebodywho is three levels above you
just skating circles around youscoring all the goals while you
can't touch the puck.
That also takes away from thefun.
(30:56):
So you want to try to put themin the right buckets.
But what's your approachusually when you have a team
that has a wider skill set?
Speaker 2 (31:08):
let's say so I mean, you know, we try to teach when
I'm coaching, to the lowestcommon denominator, right?
And what I do is I tell thekids hey, you know what you need
to help, you need to help makethis child better and you need
to help build this person's este.
Hey, you know what you need tohelp, you need to help make this
(31:28):
child better and you need tohelp build this person's esteem,
right, if it's someone that is,you know they'll learn to skate
.
They just finished and theywant to play in the league.
Great, you know.
But I put it on the kidsbecause, and what I say to them
is what, if that was you, howwould you want to feel?
(31:49):
And they say well, I would wantmy teammates to help me and
tell me if I'm doing somethingwrong and show me what to do and
I'm like right.
So that's what we need to do,because, at the end of the day,
if you can make somebody better,that's making you better.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Right, right, right, I love that, yeah, and I think
that that kind of also builds onthe whole.
You know that experience, youknow the experience of sports
and what you want out of sport.
Right, you want a kid who issocial, who is focused on the
positive and wants to help thosearound them, as opposed to you
(32:30):
know everybody's terrible and Idon't want to play with them.
I should be on that team, right, yeah, right, I talk.
You know, I talk a lot here onthe show about what I call
kitchen talk, when parents kindof go home or go somewhere and
they start talking negativelyabout other teammates or the
coaches or each other and thatkind of trickles down into the,
(32:52):
I guess, the coachability of thechild.
So have you seen that in yourexperience where that impact
kind of goes into the child andyou have to address it with the
parents or maybe with the familyto try to get them back into
the culture?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
So I've been lucky.
I haven't seen that on theteams that I have that I've
coached, but I have seen it onother teams.
Right, and you know, I think itit starts when you have parents
(33:30):
that might be a littledelusional, right addressed, and
you know it's then it.
I think that that's, you know,and I think it has to do with
(33:53):
like the upbringing right andyou know I have no idea, like I
said, I haven't seen it, but youknow when that I mean when we
do hear of that that isaddressed immediately.
Like there is no bashinganother team.
(34:14):
You know there's no.
You know.
You know making fun of anybody,like you know we, the coaches,
collectively in the league, youknow we'll make sure that.
You sure that we address thatvery quickly and there's no
(34:35):
laughing.
I don't want to say there's nocelebrating when there's a goal,
but there's no excessivesellies or whatever these kids
are doing these days.
We want to get the game back on.
You know we don't listen.
A goalie lets up a goal.
They know they let up the goal.
They don't need it to be rubbedin their face Like we teach
(34:57):
them.
It's very important for me andmy kids that I coach and and my
son is is the sportsmanshipCause.
I think that's half the battle.
Right, you can be very talented, but you can have a real crappy
sportsmanship.
No one's going to want to playwith you, no one's going to want
you on their team eventually.
I mean, and I think that'sreally an important component
(35:22):
that a lot of people don't get,and I've seen it at a lot of
tournaments that we've been partof.
At black biscuit, where we'responsoring, I'm like wow, like
you know where's thesportsmanship, like you know,
that's an important thing.
You know, after the game you goup to the other goalie and you
say, good game, right, I meanthat's it.
(35:45):
I mean that's it.
You don't make fun of them.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Yeah, I mean, I think the point and I agree with you
the point with youth sports isto create individuals and
players or individuals who cango outside of the sport and
improve, I guess, the cultureand the society that we live in
right, improve the experience itlive in right, improve the
(36:08):
experience.
Um, it's easy to point thefinger, it's easy to make fun of
somebody when you are in aposition of, let's say, power,
or you're in a position of, uh,maybe you're better skilled in
that specific situation.
But then when the tables arereversed, you know, and, like
you said, how does that make youfeel?
Speaker 2 (36:29):
right, you're on the other side of that equation
right, and you know, I mean, youknow, the same method that I
use in coaching is the samemethod that we use in business.
At black biscuit we don't bashother companies.
I'm sure we get bashed andthat's okay, you know.
You want to talk about me onsocial media?
Great that's.
(36:49):
You know, that's flattery.
I look at it, right, you know it, it, it it comes down to if you
want to be respected, you needto respect others, right, and
you need it's just as importantto be, you know, have great
sportsmanship on their ice as itis off the ice.
(37:11):
You know, and when you'replaying, even off the ice, you
still are a reflection of theteam you're playing on.
You know, and you don't wantthat bad persona pushed off to
you.
Like, oh, look at that guy.
Like you know what a pompousperson.
Like, oh, he's so arrogant, orshe's so arrogant, oh my god.
Like, oh god, we can't wait toplay them because you know what
(37:34):
we're gonna really like.
I know it's a no checkingleague, but you know we're just
we're gonna try to hurt them.
Yeah, I've heard kids say that,you know, at 10 years old, like
that's not something that anycoach should condone at all.
You know I've been lucky enough.
Like I said, I'm not.
(37:55):
I haven't seen it on my teams.
Now I'm not saying that thekids might not like each other,
but I've never seen anybody onmy team go after anybody.
You know, they're alwaysprofessional.
I try them, I try to tell themto be.
You know, just remember, youare a reflection of the team.
(38:15):
So on the ice is the same thingon the bench after the game.
You know it's a game, it's onlyone, it's an n of one, right?
It's not like you knowthere's's a game, it's only one,
it's an N of one, right?
It's not like you know, there'salways the next game.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
So you know and I love that you touched on the
fact that you're, you know, aparent coach.
I'm a parent coach as well.
I have three boys playinghockey, so I get to you know,
I've been coaching for the pastlike all over a decade now and
coaching other kids and on myown.
It's a little different whenyour own kid's on the bench than
when they're not, so you haveto be very mindful and aware of
(38:56):
that, of course.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
But I wanted to ask you to kind of bring us back a
little bit to the beginning ofthe conversation and maybe you
could talk a little bit aboutthe difference between how you
were parented and what you'redoing now with your kid so the
way I was parented was, you know, my parents instilled in me at
(39:20):
a young age that you need,whatever you're going to do you,
you need to give it your allright, whether it be playing on
the soccer team, playing tennis,playing hockey, cub Scouts,
religious school school rightand friendships right.
(39:42):
What you get in is what you'regoing to get out.
If you take, take, take, take,take, eventually your friends go
from here to here.
So that's how I was parented.
My parents didn't baby me.
But again, this is an era wherewe would come home from school
(40:03):
and my mother would say don'tcome home until your father
comes home.
And my father didn't get homeuntil 730.
Like, didn't know, there wereno cell phones, she didn't know
where we were.
She just said don't get hit bya car, right?
So I think it's a differentworld now, where parents are
superly overprotective, which Idon't necessarily disagree with.
(40:25):
I think I I wouldn't say I'moverly protective I want my son
to, you know, and I have astepdaughter who's 20, in
college and, you know, led alittle bit of a sheltered life.
So it's, it's, I want her toget out and experience the, the
love and the breakup and the.
Oh, my God, I should not havedrawn vodka on a thursday night.
(40:50):
When I had class on friday Igot I'm horrible, right.
Or my little guy, you know,experience some of these things.
So these are life lessons, sothey understand, instead of just
having this bubble and oh,you're a perfect little kid,
right.
And I think that's what mylittle guy says is oh, dad, you
know, you're screaming on thebench.
(41:10):
I'm like well, you got to coverthe slot right.
Like if somebody's there andyou're not seeing it, what do
you want me to do?
Like I'm your coach, I got totell you to cover the slot right
.
Your players aren't telling youthat because they don't
understand it.
So I think again, that's partLike we didn't have really
organized lessons like they donow with learn to play, and we
(41:34):
kind of taught ourselves right,we taught ourselves on a video
game like Nintendo 64 orwhatever in television like
learn how to play, like wedidn't know what offsides was
Nobody.
You know, we played dodgeballin in elementary school so it
was really it's a lot of tryingto get them to understand the
(41:54):
fundamentals and, you know,doing what my parents did, where
I wouldn't say give them enoughrope to hang themselves.
But let them be kids, right?
I don't think I'd let mynine-year-old now, like my
mother and father did, ride hisbike to the rink.
But it's, you know, lettingthem be kids, let let them
(42:15):
experience and make sure thatyou know, within reason, that
they're they're they're makingthose right decisions earlier.
Right, I think, decisionsearlier, right.
I think we lived, I mean, when Igrew up in the, you know, the
late 70s, early 80s.
It was a real different world.
You know, you didn't have theinternet, you didn't have social
(42:37):
media, you didn't have a cellphone, you didn't have Snapchat
or Instagram or I don't evenknow all these other apps.
Right, you know, you don't likea kid.
You got into an argument at theschool and the next day you
were best friends with him.
So it was just a very differentworld now.
There was no bullying and therewas no, you know, little bit
(43:03):
protective.
But you also need to give thechild enough confidence that
they can make these decisionswithin reason at their age and
making the right decisions right.
I can only steer them right.
I think that's really it, um,you know I mean listen, like
(43:24):
everyone.
Well, as you grow up, yousometimes make the bad choices
and you're like, oh my God, Iprobably shouldn't have done
that.
But you know it is what it isright, you know, and you know
the punishment's going to comeand you know, all right, you
can't watch TV.
This was the wipehead, likethat, was it.
You know I had to read a bookor actually do something.
(43:45):
You know, go out and clean theyard.
So it's.
I think that's a lot of what Itry to do.
I try to instill, likeresponsibilities right, like my
little guy, you know it.
Just make your bed in themorning.
Right, it's your bed.
You have to take pride in it.
Like, take pride in what you doand make sure you.
(44:07):
The one thing that my parentssaid and I think I said this
earlier was they made sure thatI gave it 100% when I was
playing goalie in soccer.
That's it.
I was laser focused on makingsure that I was playing goalie
and I was present.
I think that's it.
I wasn't preoccupied Again.
(44:29):
We didn't have, growing up, alot of these exterior factors
that are around.
We had soccer practice threedays a week.
There was no option to miss itbecause you had something else
to do or didn't want to go.
You went miss it because youhad something else to do or
(44:49):
didn't want to go.
You went rain, shine, foggy,cold.
Right now it's.
You know, it's a.
You know what?
John doesn't feel well today.
He's not gonna go.
What do you mean?
What do you mean he's not gonnago there?
There's a practice.
So you know, I tell my littleguy listen, you got to take
pride in what you do and makesure when you are doing it you
(45:13):
need to give it 100% Now.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
you know we you know in our childhood we were more
self-motivated to do things thanyou know it is now, with all
the distractions and socialmedia and the games and
computers.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
I think so, a hundred percent, I think so.
I think that we wanted what weput our mind to.
We did what we put our mind to,we did.
If we wanted to learn abouthockey or soccer or football,
either you played the sport, youtried it, or you actually went
(45:57):
to the library and took a bookout and had a read about it.
Right, right, there was novideo on watching what hockey is
and what the positions are, orfootball or soccer, or you know.
So I think it.
Yeah, I mean, obviously, youknow, like we talked about
(46:20):
equipment and uniforms, itevolves, right.
So technology evolved.
Now you have have ai, which isa whole other thing.
So everything's at thefingertips here.
These kids don't have to liftanything.
They could just go on to momand dad's phone if they don't
have an ipad or a book orwhatever they have at school and
(46:40):
at their fingertips they canwatch 1700 videos on how to
skate, how to stop, how to stick, handle the proper positioning
of equipment.
I mean, you name it, it's there, it's really at their
fingertips.
So I think, yeah, I think wewere much more motivated to
(47:03):
really figure it out, learn, doit properly, because there was
no other way for us to do itRight.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
And I also think that you know to your point, when we
talk about equipment going to astore and trying on those
skates and trying out that stick, and trying out that equipment
it was an experience in itselfthat now a lot of people are
starting to miss, becauseeverything is internet-based.
You ordered it, you didn't likeit, you sent it back, you
ordered a different one, and sothey're missing that component
(47:36):
that you were talking about.
When you walk into a store andyou have a person who works
there, who can guide you andhelp you with the fit and help
you with the right equipment,and you feel like you just
walked out with all this stuffand it just gives you this
euphoric kind of experience thatyou know I think kids are
starting to miss a little bit,yeah I mean I'll tell you, I own
(47:57):
the hockey depot, right, so I'mbuying all my equipment at cost
, but I still go to pure hockeyand get fitted, and you know
what, I'd rather pay retail andknow I'm getting the right thing
, which will kill me, right,because I know what I'm, the
skates cost.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
But we, because we are internet based, we don't
have that personal touch, right,which I think is missing.
But you know, in this day andage to, oh, you know, you, it's
very hard to go up a guy againsta guy like pure hockey, right,
that has 800 stores, right.
(48:38):
So I mean it's interestingbecause we're trying to test
something out in at tampa, atthe black biscuit headquarters,
is making a concierge type ofprivate fitting for goalies with
vaughn hockey equipment andgraph skates, because that, we
(49:03):
feel, is a market that nobody'stouching.
Right, and you don't, no one'sbuying a pair of $1,999 pads on
the internet, right, right.
So the same really should holdtrue for a lot of this hockey
equipment.
Now, a granted, maybe you go tothe store, you get sized and
(49:26):
then you order it somewhere elsebecause you have a 10% off
coupon.
But at the end of the day, Imean I can't stress it enough
and I tell this to all the kidsyou have to make sure the
equipment is fitted properly andit has to fit you properly,
otherwise it's not protective atall.
It doesn't matter what brand itis, I don't care how much you
(49:48):
spend on it, I don't really carewhat it is, but you, you know,
and you can even go to a plateagainst sports and get something
used right A shin guard.
You know that someone outgrewis will be okay.
You know you don't need toinvest hundreds or thousands of
(50:09):
dollars into equipment until youknow number one, you really
love it and you're at that levelwhere you need that type of
equipment.
I mean, I think that's reallythe misnomer.
I mean I don't know what eightor nine-year-old kid needs.
(50:31):
A Bauer $299 or $399 tracerstick?
I don't get it, but you knowyeah.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
Right, Because you know yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
Right, because somebody has it out there.
You know it's, it's, it's, it'sthe factor, so you know.
But again it goes back to ifit's, you know, 269 grams.
A 269 gram stick is a 269 gramstick.
It doesn't matter what stickeris on it, it goes down the same
(51:03):
three factories one sticker, onesticker, one sticker right.
Different graphic, right.
So I think that's a lot of whatyou know I try to instill in
the kids.
Don't be so caught up on theequipment name or the brand name
.
Make sure it's comfortable andmake sure that you know you feel
(51:29):
good and it doesn't hurt.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
Right.
I love that because I think youknow, at some point I really
liked the Supreme skates and I'ma power skates kind of guy.
I did have graphs years ago butI kind of switched to power and
they felt better for me and Ijust love the new design, the
yellow and black, and I was likeI got to get these Supremes and
I tried them seven differenttimes and I hated the fit.
(51:55):
It just didn't fit my leg.
I have a narrow foot, so I hadto get the Vapors, fit 1 or
whatever, which fits perfectly,and I was like you know, I skate
and coach probably six days aweek, seven days a week
sometimes, and so for me, havinga good skate is like, you know,
if you're a taxi driver andyou're driving you know, you
(52:19):
have to bicycle people around.
You know it makes a bigdifference if you have the wrong
fit, like you said, because youknow, you're going to be
hurting at the end of the day,correct?
Speaker 2 (52:29):
Correct and I think that that's really the key to it
.
It doesn't really.
I mean you might have yourheart set on that brand or that
specific line within the brand.
You got to just look at it andit's got to be comfortable,
right, because the worst thingyou want is to come off that ice
and have your feet killing you,where you just want to take
(52:52):
your skates off, because onceyou take them off you're not
putting them back on Right?
Speaker 1 (52:56):
I had a funny story.
We had a kid who comes topractice.
He always wore Bauer and all ofa sudden he gets the CCM tax
with a completely different fit.
And so he comes out.
He's tripping all over theplace, can't skate.
And the coach I was with comesout, comes up to the mom and
goes you know, that's not hisfit, that's not the skate he
(53:20):
usually wears.
Why did you get those?
She like well, they're like athousand dollars, like top of
the line ccms.
And he's like well, he's likedo you always buy different
brand shoes for yourself, right?
And she's like yeah, I do.
What's the what's the question?
He's like that was not a goodexample, it's true right again,
and it's exactly what you said.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
Just because it's quote, unquote, top of the line,
doesn't make it a good fit foryou, right?
I mean, you know, uh, you know,when we're selling in the
roller hockey world.
You know a lot of guys that Iknow wear a tour, yep, you know,
and they've been around for along time.
(54:03):
They make a great boot.
They're a fraction of the priceof these other guys and you're
not paying into the marketing,right?
And again, it really comes downto looking at like in the NHL,
right?
I mean, sherwood's been aroundforever, forever, forever.
I mean Sherwood's been aroundforever, forever.
Nobody wanted their sticks untilBedard decided to sign with
(54:25):
them.
Now, you can't keep them all in, right, you know, you have the
top players using a bow or astick.
Well, that's why you're paying$1,000 for those skates.
(54:46):
Me, you're not getting the nhllevel skate that any of these
guys are skating in right at athousand dollars, right?
So they're all custom molded totheir feet, you know, they know
exactly what they're doing.
Yes, they could have that outershell, that outer color, but
it's.
You know, it's nothing like theskate.
(55:07):
They're not walking into Bauerheadquarters or CCM headquarters
and saying I'm going to justtake that skate.
Thanks, just I'll take it inone and a half Right.
Speaker 1 (55:16):
So I'm out.
Speaker 2 (55:18):
Correct, you know.
So it's, yeah, it's an.
It's a very interesting conceptin terms of, you know, again,
it's big dollars, right, I meanit doesn't, you could take it.
I mean you could look at it inanybody, right, any brand,
multinational brands, I mean,you know, you could look at
(55:40):
Rolex, rolex, right, a timex anda casio does the same thing.
A rolex does tells time,probably better than the rolex,
right, because it's not losingtime on a battery until the
battery dies.
So at the end of the day, it,it's the marketing, it's, it's,
it's, oh, it's the status, right, you know, and I don't know, I
(56:07):
never really bought into that, Ididn't really care.
Um, you know, if it wascomfortable when I was younger,
I mean, I have very flat feet,so everything hurts but if it
was, if I could keep the skateson for 30 minutes, great that.
That, that was the winner forme, right?
So at the end of the day, itreally didn't matter.
(56:28):
And I think that that's what Itry to get back to the kids.
Like, it doesn't matter whatstick you're not going to play
better because you're using thatstick or that helmet or that
glove like, or those wheels like, you know, all those blades
like it.
It it needs to work for you andif it happens to be that
(56:49):
thousand dollars gig, great.
But you know oh, great point.
Speaker 1 (56:55):
Thank you, john.
I know at the top of the hour,so I usually like to close out
the show with a few quickfirequestions, so I'll start with
the first one, which is what doyou think motivates athletes?
Speaker 2 (57:11):
So I think what motivates athletes is, again,
loving what they do.
I think if you look at the NHLright, these guys love what they
do every day.
They really do, you know, and,yes, I think money is a
(57:31):
motivator, but it's, you know.
Then you look at baseball right, and you look at what happened
with Juan Soto right, yankeesversus Mets 700 and something
million.
You flip teams.
It's not about the money, it'sabout the camaraderie that these
guys make, right.
You look at the Capitals thathave been together forever.
You look at the Islanders thathave been together forever right
(57:54):
, yes, they're not winning, butthese guys have been cohesive.
And you look at these teamslike Dallas I was watching the
game earlier and you got TylerSagan, who's been with them
since 2013.
These guys, they love what theydo and they love who they're
playing with.
So I think that's really whatmotivates athletes.
(58:14):
You've got to love what you doand put 100% of it into what
you're doing, and it doesn'tmatter what sport it is.
Speaker 1 (58:24):
Agreed.
Speaker 2 (58:24):
Right.
Speaker 1 (58:25):
Awesome, yeah, second question here is if you could
name three character traits thatyou notice in successful
athletes, what would they be?
Speaker 2 (58:34):
So I think the three traits that I see is, you know,
always wanting to give the go,the extra mile right, being
coachable, you know, and lookingto help the weaker player.
I think that's an amazing trait.
(58:54):
When I see players do that at ayoung age, I think that's great
, because that that shows them,that me, that they have
compassion right, with which Ithink this world needs a little
more, quite honestly.
And I I really love when I seethat, like you know, when, um
and I'm not telling them to sayit and they're you know, they
(59:16):
say, oh, don't worry, it's okay,you know talking to them on the
bench and you know reallytrying to make them.
You know say, oh, don't worry,it's okay, you know talking to
them on the bench and you knowreally trying to make them.
Speaker 1 (59:23):
You know, be better, which I think is great, that's
wonderful.
And last one is the opposite.
Maybe you could talk aboutthree things that you think hold
athletes back.
What would they be?
Speaker 2 (59:32):
so I think the three things that hold athletes back
is the arrogance that I'm thebest I can can't be taught.
I know everything Right,Somebody that you know and I
think this falls into the samecategory but not coachable.
So that would probably be one.
(59:53):
The second one would be thatthey're not passionate about
what they're doing right, orthey're being forced into it for
whatever reason, and then notbeing, I think, having
(01:00:14):
confidence in themselves, evenif they're learning the game,
whatever game that is to havethe confidence or lack of
confidence.
I think that's really like oh,I'm never going to be that good,
or I'm never going to score agoal, or I'm never going to be
able to keep up with that player.
I kind of disagree with that,but I think that, yes, you might
(01:00:37):
not be going to the NHL or youmight not be playing D1, but
have confidence in yourself.
Don't sabotage yourself beforeyou've been able to evolve.
Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
I love that, john.
This has been a phenomenalconversation.
John, this has been aphenomenal conversation.
I'm really excited about the.
You know a lot of things wetalked about, especially you
know committing to your task,and I'm really excited for Black
Biscuit and partying with youguys.
Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
Yes, really great.
I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Yeah, me too.
I mean I'm excited, I like whatyou guys stand for, I love the
character and you know what wetalked about before we even
started the show.
Talking about working with kids, and not necessarily the
highest tier one levels, butactually tier two and tier three
, and there's learn to plays andand really giving those kids
the opportunity to feel like amillion bucks, right and yeah, I
(01:01:36):
mean we do that a lot on oursocial media.
Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
You know we want these kids to have their 15
minute.
You know that 15 seconds offame, 15 minutes of fame,
whatever they're saying is, andyou know it's it's.
There's only so many tier LikeI said to you earlier, there's
only so many tier one athletesRight, there's only so many in
the world of the Ovechkins, the,the Matthews, the Bedards, the
(01:02:01):
Celebrinis, there's a lot moreTier 2 and a boatload more Tier
3 that are super talented.
So you know, we love thosetypes of programs because those
are the programs.
When we outfit them, we see thesmiles on their faces.
We love that they have someinput in the designs and we love
(01:02:25):
them.
We see them for the first timeputting the uniform on.
They're like wow, like youcould see that they're glowing.
They're like we feel like amillion bucks and we look like a
million bucks.
And that's just the best partabout owning a company that is
not super big.
(01:02:45):
I own it.
You can get me on the phone.
When you get my email, it's mycell phone number.
You need me on a Saturday.
You can call us.
I don't sit behind a big deskwith 17 people in front of me.
So those are the type of thingsthat makes it a family.
Like once you buy from blackbiscuit, we, you're part of the
(01:03:08):
family.
So the more stuff you send us,the more we put you on social
media, and all these kids nowwith social media love to see
them up there.
Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
You know, and so you know we love it, we love it,
love it wonderful and, for thoseof you guys listening, if you
want to check out black biscuit,you can go to
wwwblack-biscuitcom.
That's wwwblack-biscuitcom.
C-u-l-t, dot, c-o-m or dot com.
(01:03:41):
Well, john, thank you again fortaking the time.
I know it's quite late, but Ireally appreciate it.
It was a phenomenalconversation.
I hope that everybody who islistening learned something new
today and can take it away withthem, and I look forward to
supporting some Black Biscuit.
Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
Yes, at the Lobster Cup.
And, yeah, bring home somehardware for us, post it on
social, and I look forward tosupporting some black biscuit.
Yes, yeah, bring home somehardware for us, post it on
social.
Send it to Tom.
We'll do our best, we'll loveit.
Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
We'll love it thank you so much thank you, thank you
everybody for listening andhave a wonderful evening, thank
(01:04:33):
you.
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