October 14, 2024 • 22 mins
This week, hosts Meghan (Smallwood) and Patrick (Cadigan) interview Donna Pidel and Adebayo (Bayo) Sodunke from "The Difference 2-17. Their discussion covers how the program focuses on self-direction and community building; emphasizing the importance of independence, relationships, and a supportive environment. They talk about how the program has grown from a small initiative to multiple sites, with strong partnerships. They highlight the significance of building a community that cares for and supports its members, ensuring they are never alone. Join the conversation!
Episode Keywords:
transition, self-direction, autism, community building, skill enrichment, independent skills, volunteer opportunities, parental support, cultural shift, relationship building, job progression, member engagement, neurodiversity acceptance, legacy creation, partnerships
Links:
Self Direction (page)
Maryland (specific) Links/Supports:
The Difference 2-17 Team (site)
Shiny Shell (site)
Mommy Magic Cakes (site)
Blossom & Basket Boutique (site)
Ace Hardware (site)
The Last Word (site)
Mt. Airy Commons (site)
Shepherds Purse Alpacas (site)
Wagner’s Meat Market (site)
Mt. Airy Lanes (site)
The Kiwanis Club of Mt. Airy (site)
To download a copy of a transcript for this episode or any of our previous conversations, click here.
Also visit our Podcast webpage to find links to all of our other discussions; go to www.p2transition.com.
Additional information about post-secondary transition can be found at our website.
The Post-Secondary Transition Podcast Facebook page.
Visit our YouTube Channel to find additional video resources.
Intro/Outro music by AudioCoffee from Pixabay.
Transition music by Joseph McDade from Transistor.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Patrick Cadigan (00:00):
Patrick, welcome. This is the Post
(00:02):
Secondary Transition podcast. Wehave conversations around that
process, including the ins andthe outs for families of
students with disabilities. I amone of the CO hosts. My name is
Patrick Cadigan. I am a publicschool transition coordinator,
and as always, I have a co host.
And who would that be?
Meghan Smallwood (00:18):
My name is Meghan Smallwood, and I am also
a transition coordinator. And Ithink this is a conversation
that we have been excited forand waited for for a long time.
But, you know, life gets in theway. So I am so happy that we
are sitting down with Donna andBayo from The Difference two,
two, is it 2-17? Or 2-17 or justThe Difference?
Donna Pidel (00:38):
It is 2-17. But you know, a lot of people say it in
different ways. We accept all.
Meghan Smallwood (00:45):
And I know the story behind that, but I know, I
want you to share. But welcome;thank you for joining us.
Donna Pidel (00:52):
Thank you. Thank you. It's great to be here.
We've, we've waited to do thisquite some time, so thank you.
Meghan Smallwood (01:00):
But I think it was good that we waited, because
I know you've got lots ofupdates to share. Can we just
start with, like, a littlebackground about how you you all
began, because I know you didn'tstart with self direction.
Donna Pidel (01:12):
No we didn't start with self directions. We started
with a relationship betweenAlex, my son and Bayo probably
about 15 years ago when Bayo wasworking at a different facility
and Alex was a member of thatfacility, and they had a really
(01:32):
tight bond. So when I decided tochange Alex from a traditional
program to self directedprogram, Bayo continued working
with Alexander, and from there,we purchased a home. Both
Alexander and Bayo livedtogether; still do. And you
(01:55):
know, a friendship was formed,and from there, we decided to
take it a step further and lookat how we could improve people's
lives that are currently in selfdirected services by starting
our own experience for people.
Meghan Smallwood (02:13):
I kind of know a little bit of the background,
it wasn't just you. There wasother parents who had that
vision as well, right?
Adebayo Sodunke (02:20):
Since we started, you know, the vision
was all about Alex at thebeginning, because we know
there's so much out there thathe can do. We know all his
potentials, and we know one ofthe things that have caused them
to not be able to live to thoseanxious are, you know, the way
the traditional system was setup, not putting the member
first. So when we went selfdirected, we realized, okay, now
(02:43):
Alex could do more, right? Theopportunity is endless when we
can open the doors. And as wesee that progress with Alex and
seeing try tremendously, ofcourse, the struggle of autism
is still there, but we seeprogress in so many areas about
his engagement and activities,his willingness to go out and
explore new stuff. They're goingon a cop to ride, for instance,
(03:05):
you know, he wouldn't have donethat in the scope system. So
after that, we look like we wehave parents meeting with other
parents, and they share theirconcern, and they're so excited
to see others, you know, try,because all these women have
been part of his life somewherehere. So the girl was like,
Okay, how do we benefit fromthis? And Miss Donna, he has
always been like, I want to doit bigger than just for my
(03:27):
child. I want to leave a legacy.
I want Alice to leave a legacy.
And in the dreams, then you'vejust been fine. Every parent of
we've been where we are. We gotto where we are through the
fight from the parents. And wewant to be on that journey with
you guys. We want to experiencewhat our lesson is experiencing,
and the other members somethingdifferent. So it's been a
(03:47):
beautiful night.
Unknown (03:49):
I think we started off looking very differently at
autism and neurodiversity in away that doesn't preclude
someone from activities, butquite the opposite, that we open
that door and open the window tocapabilities. So it's unraveling
(04:09):
a person's likes their dislikes,and not just showing them what
they can do, but experiencingthat with them, and through that
process, they gain so much inthe way of confidence and
feeling, you know, feeling goodabout themselves. So it's really
(04:30):
a journey that we don't observesomeone take. We take it with
them. And I think that's why thedifference is so different. It's
like every child is our child,and as they experience life or
the complications that life cangive them, we help them through
(04:50):
those complications in a waythat is very connected. So we're
extremely connected to everysingle man. Member that's with
us.
Meghan Smallwood (05:02):
And I think you, you said it before. It's
the friendship like bio and Alexhad, and I've, like, just from
the one time I was over to yourlocation, in Mount Airy, you can
see that with all the peoplethere, like that was just so
different, I think, from otherplaces that I've been. And I
mean, that's, it's justextraordinary. And I loved
(05:23):
seeing those relationships, andI know the parents just love
that as well. And there's thatfear, you know, after the 21 of
like falling off the cliff andjust falling through the cracks
and not having thoserelationships that they had for
so many years in the schoolsystem, and I feel like you guys
are able to offer that. So it'sdefinitely special.
Patrick Cadigan (05:46):
And very quickly, as I'm sitting here
thinking about this, if youcould offer an explanation or a
definition of what thedifference is for our listeners
who are unfamiliar with theprogram, like if you had to walk
into a room and give a pitch towhat the difference is, what
(06:08):
would you say?
Adebayo Sodunke (06:11):
It's an enrichment program. It's a skill
enrichment program. It's a placewith friendship volunteer
opportunity, a place you get tofind your voice and have a voice
and have a place to use yourskills, shine your skills, and
punish them. Use this as ateaching skills. Learn from
others. When member come intothe difference, it's like a
shock to them at first, becausethey get to a place I could say
(06:34):
what I really feel. I can reallyhave a struggle, and I still get
loves, and nobody's fighting meback. So it's a place for
everybody to be able to bethemselves, and I go every
single day. Is to teach thatindependent skills, right? We
always say to the staff, make merelevant in your life. We are
going to give you every toolwithin our ability, time after
(06:55):
time to make sure not thatimportant to you, because you
can cook yourself now. You couldmake your own bed, you could go
to a job, even if you needsupport. It doesn't mean the
person is doing it for you.
They're there with you to helpyou land the job and get
promotions. So our job is toopen that door. We always say,
there's no box. You create thebox. People create the box. Our
job is to open that door tounlimited opportunities. You
(07:17):
have relationship, you buildfriendship. It's a lifetime.
Parents gonna go away before themembers goes away, right? So our
job is to create that communitythat stays as a bond that will
always be there for that memberfor the rest of their life.
Meghan Smallwood (07:31):
That's a great way to put it, because I feel
like so many times I'm talkingto families about thinking of
that circle of support for theirtheir loved one. And I know so
many don't want to admit they'renot going to be there for the
rest of their lives, but it is ahard pill to swallow, so having
that group of people that also,you know, embrace them and are
there for them is so important.
Donna Pidel (07:51):
That's so important. We say the same thing
Meghan all the time, and we talkto parents about the importance
of when your son or daughterleaves high school or leaves the
program with which they're in,that they wreck that the parents
recognize that their job is tocontinue to forge growth so that
(08:17):
that adult is becomes preparedto be as independent as is
possible, whatever thatindependence means for for each
person. And when a parent says,I'm not ready to let go, I
understand that as a parent, butat the same time, one has to put
(08:40):
them try to put themselves inthe place of that adult. One
day, that adult will have tonavigate life by themselves. And
it's not always fun for a parentto let go, but it is best for
that adult to start, you know,relinquishing a little bit of
(09:04):
control.
Meghan Smallwood (09:06):
And I like how you phrased, you know, the level
of independence that they canget, because I feel like every
one of our friends we're talkingabout has some form of
independence. And, you know,it's, it's not black and white.
There's, there's lots of graythere, and it can be a small
thing, but it's a monumentalachievement. And I think we need
to celebrate that. I love that.
So I guess, like when you werecoming up with the idea of, you
(09:30):
know, forming this program, werethere any resources? Was there
anyone else that you went to foradvice or an idea of how to get
started. They I feel likethere's so many parents out
there. They're, you know, theyhave that vision, and they want
exactly like, you know,customizing it, but they don't
know where to go.
Donna Pidel (09:52):
Yeah, I think I hear all the time parents that
say, I wish I I wish I could dothis. Yeah. Yeah. So I think
that for for us, we had actuallytalked about doing this for many
years, because we saw that therewas a gap and a need for people
to make their own decisions. Butas far as actually doing it, you
(10:16):
have to have some big girl andbig boy panties pull them up and
say, I'm going to do it. And forme, I think I have always had
the kind of character that goeswith my gut feeling and takes a
risk and just does it. We didn'thave any there wasn't anyone
doing what we were doing. So wedidn't really have anyone except
(10:39):
for ourselves to bounce off howto do it. Bayo is extremely
resourceful and creative withhow to react and interact with
people on of all levels ofabilities. So he has always been
(11:00):
a great resource and a greatinspiration to me personally.
Adebayo Sodunke (11:05):
And I will say that, thank you, mom, and I'm
very grateful. It takes a lot todo it. You know, I said, I
always say to people, we findit, we find pleasure in doing
it. But it's not as easy as itlook. It takes someone of a
magnitude to give up a wholecareer that's at the top, right?
And that is what the struggle ofmost...and that's why there's no
(11:26):
roadmap, because people are notwilling to do that. You know,
it's just, let's call it a spadea spade; to give up a whole
career and say, "I'm going tofollow a dream, gas, no
driveway, no pathway, I justhave to drive through the bush
and create a way." And by theway, we started this just right
after COVID. We still have a bitof COVID. That is another dagger
(11:47):
to it to say no businesses arehopeful, you really can't get
anybody you're not allowed tocommute. You're not allowed to
be in one place. But what we didis, it's a meeting space. It's
not a staying space. We come inthere, we get a plan for the
day. Everybody get to pick thealicat menu, and they get to go.
So we're really not using thespace as a needed space, but
(12:08):
it's space to meet and get outin the community. So there,
yeah, there is nothing out thereat that point that give us a
clear understanding. But we knowwhat we want, and we really say
we're going to do it, even ifit's only Alex, we're going to
do it every day.
Donna Pidel (12:22):
And we said, if we could survive in COVID...
...during COVID,after we got through COVID, I
Meghan Smallwood (12:24):
Yeah.
think that we would be very,very much more organized,
because we really didn't knowvery much of what we were doing.
We knew that we wanted to offerpeople skills to build on, but I
think you said a very importantthing, Meghan, which is building
(12:45):
community. So our goal from thevery beginning was so that when
parents are not able to bearound their children anymore
for aging, because of aging andwe all become seniors, that our
children, their children, wouldhave a community feeling. So if
(13:07):
they have a volunteeropportunity, and they don't turn
up to that volunteer opportunitythat they've been going to week
after week after week, thatsomeone at that facility would
say, well, where's Mary Jane,she's here every week and go
look for her and be concernedabout her. So that still stands
(13:27):
as today. We want to build ourgoal is to build community
around that person. And like biosaid, they we have probably 25
partners that give us jobs,volunteer opportunities and
various things, and we buildclose relationships with them so
that when that individual goesto that job and perhaps doesn't
(13:50):
show up, they're able to call usand say they didn't show up
today, where are they? I thinkthat's terribly important to
build community that reallycares about that person, so
that's why we did this.
Yeah, I lovethat, that their absences notice
because they're an importantmember of the community, kind of
(14:12):
going into it, then you talk alittle bit about your
connections. Can you tell us alittle bit about the program?
Because I know you started withone, and now you've got
multiple, multiple sites.
Adebayo Sodunke (14:21):
We say, you know, I could, I was just trying
to write the list of couple ofpartnerships that we've had in
town within the three, fourmajor city that we're in now, as
like, you know, I'm gonna getbecause we need to give them
their flowers. Because when westarted, there is nothing as
such as what we have in townfrom Mt. Airy. It was like a
little town with, you know,COVID going on. They have a
(14:43):
mayor election going on.
Everything is quiet, and it isthis little tiny company, the
little office, like, if, like, aas big as you can imagine it, we
come down the street. We'realways greeting everybody,
giving everybody positiveenergy. They come to our space
to do coffees and teas onWednesdays. I still remember
those days where the currentMayor just lost the election, so
(15:05):
he used to come with them, andsince then, we got a
relationship with Shiny Shell,Mommy Magic Cake, gas, smooth
displays, Ace Hardware, BlossomFlower, The Last Word, Mt Airy
Commons, Alpaca Farm, EeireInsurance, the Wagner meat
market, Mt. Airy Bowling. Andyou know, the Kiwanis Club, the
Mayor's office, the restock. Ican go on and on...
Donna Pidel (15:27):
And that's just in Mt. Airy.
Meghan Smallwood (15:28):
Wow!
Adebayo Sodunke (15:29):
...saying a little right? And the beauty of
what we started is when we firststart, we used to actually go to
those organizations and knock onthe doors and try to get in.
Now, organizations are walkingin and say, I want to be part of
this movement. I saw, I see youguys on Facebook. I want my
company attached to this. And itspeak to the testament not us,
but our members, because wealways say, "We're not coming to
(15:53):
get a free job with you. We'recoming to do a job, and we don't
want to just be at the bottom ofthe bottom. We need the same
opportunity to progress in yourorganization. Because I'm
a...have autism doesn't mean Icannot do stuff. I just need to
find a skill, an opportunitythat matters with my strengths."
So and that's what we do. Wedon't just get our members job.
(16:13):
We don't just get in onvolunteer opportunity. We listen
to their voice, we listen totheir team, their family, and we
understand that if we do that,the best way that we're good at
they tend to keep their job.
Like, for instance, somebodythat loves food and have a
weight issue, is we listen tothe parent and we listen to the
member. We encourage them; soone of the young lady we have
(16:35):
works at a flower shop. She'samazing at it. She even go on a
day off and say, "Hey, I want togo say hi to my co-workers.
Co-workers. You know, you knowit was called them friends. So
it is so important with what wedo, we always understand, like
our reason for getting the jobis different. We got bills to
pay. Sometimes our members needdifferent motivation. So that
(16:56):
friendsh...that relationshipmatter more to them, sometimes
not even the paycheck. Becausethey need they don't have a bill
to pay, so they can't connect onthe bill side. They can't
connect on you guys, you havefamily problem or financial
medical they go, I don't reallydeal with that. But if you build
it on relationship, these peoplethat you're working with, a
member was having a birthdayparty, and we're all in
(17:16):
Frederick last Friday. Amazingfamily brought the children over
them, you know, their membersover and they were like, oh my
goodness, this is what I wantfor my child on their birthday.
You know, this is not a school,but it's like, almost like a
walk experience now, where youget to go to your friend's
birthday party and hang out withyour friends family. So the
difference is, it's beyond justa program. It's not even a
(17:40):
program. It's pretty much like,sometimes, you know, people will
come in and say, This feels likea college atmosphere. Or it was
like, oh my goodness, this feelslike, you know, like a work
environment. But everybodyreally loved themselves. We have
a staff that used to be, youknow, in the police, in the
military, is work, so many jobsover 40 something. I mean, 50s,
(18:00):
it says buyer, for the firsttime on vacation, I couldn't
wait to go back to work. Thankyou for the opportunity. He
says, I look forward to see themembers and to come back. He
said, before in my life, I usedto go, Oh, get it. The vacation
is almost over, but now it'slike, I want to get back to
work. I want to be back withthose guys, and it's not just
(18:21):
staff. We're all equal. There'sno star bathroom members
bathroom, there's no specialcar. It's all a bunch of guys
and girls, ladies. It's justtime to be better and learn and
give you the opportunity toimpact life. It's best place to
be in the world every singleday. I'm telling you, I love
what I do. We are doing wheneverybody in their jobs is all
(18:42):
and we sing randomly pick ourstaff. We don't just hire people
just because they want a job. Wewant people that their heart
belongs there, the one thatdoesn't take it for granted.
They come in every single day,understand they have a role to
play. They have a job to do, andit's to help each member become
independent, feel loved, feelrespected. I feel like they're
(19:02):
on top of the world, becausethey're not defined by D.l.S.
They're defined by who theyare...
Meghan Smallwood (19:07):
Yeah.
Unknown (19:08):
And also, we love it so much. Meghan, this man keeps his
phone on all day and all night,24/7, so the members actually
text him...
Adebayo Sodunke (19:20):
On Facetime...
Donna Pidel (19:21):
...and Facetime; in the middle of the night, so it
could be two o'clock in themorning. If you call bio, he's
picking up the phone to everymember, every parent. So it's
sort of 24/7 we're on notbecause it's a job, but even a
lifestyle. It's a lifestyle.
It's a it's a cultural shift.
(19:45):
And it's funny, because I've,you know through my son, which
he's 36 in 1988 I saw, you know,the beginnings of autism, and
what was that? And nobody knewabout it. And then grow. Going
up through a system that treatedpeople, sometimes not very
fairly, sometimes not equally,and to go into a place like the
(20:11):
difference and actually change,to witness the change of culture
in day programs, because we'rebringing those, each individual
into the forefront and saying,This is what they can do. This
is what they're capable of. Youknow, we all use the same
bathroom. We all eat off of thesame plates. We don't eat
(20:31):
different food to them. And I dobelieve it has had an impact on
on the culture of where we standtoday, with people with
different abilities anddisabilities just driving it.
Patrick Cadigan (21:00):
This is where we'll pause our conversation
with Donna and Bayo from TheDifference. So please join us in
two weeks time, as we continuethis conversation.
We would love the informationfrom this and all our other
discussions to reach as manyfamilies as possible, and we
(21:22):
need your help to do that. Soplease like, follow and share
out our podcast. You can findour conversations on all the
major podcast platforms,including Apple, Spotify,
YouTube, music, and that's justnaming a few. So please share
and share often. You can alwaysfind the links to the
information from this discussionin our show notes.
Meghan Smallwood (21:45):
Check out our YouTube channel. We've done some
of the legwork for you bycurating videos of topics that
revolve around transition. Wehave playlists we cover
guardianship alternatives toguardianship ABLE accounts. And
there's still more to come as weare finding those videos that we
think will be valuable to use.
So please be sure to subscribethere as well. And then finally,
check out our website, which isfull of information and links to
(22:06):
resources around the transitionprocess. So make sure to go to
www postsecondarytransition com.
We thank you so much for thetime you spent with us, and look
forward to talking again soon.
Patrick, welcome. This is the Post
(00:02):
Secondary Transition podcast. Wehave conversations around that
process, including the ins andthe outs for families of
students with disabilities. I amone of the CO hosts. My name is
Patrick Cadigan. I am a publicschool transition coordinator,
and as always, I have a co host.
And who would that be?
Meghan Smallwood (00:18):
My name is Meghan Smallwood, and I am also
a transition coordinator. And Ithink this is a conversation
that we have been excited forand waited for for a long time.
But, you know, life gets in theway. So I am so happy that we
are sitting down with Donna andBayo from The Difference two,
two, is it 2-17? Or 2-17 or justThe Difference?
Donna Pidel (00:38):
It is 2-17. But you know, a lot of people say it in
different ways. We accept all.
Meghan Smallwood (00:45):
And I know the story behind that, but I know, I
want you to share. But welcome;thank you for joining us.
Donna Pidel (00:52):
Thank you. Thank you. It's great to be here.
We've, we've waited to do thisquite some time, so thank you.
Meghan Smallwood (01:00):
But I think it was good that we waited, because
I know you've got lots ofupdates to share. Can we just
start with, like, a littlebackground about how you you all
began, because I know you didn'tstart with self direction.
Donna Pidel (01:12):
No we didn't start with self directions. We started
with a relationship betweenAlex, my son and Bayo probably
about 15 years ago when Bayo wasworking at a different facility
and Alex was a member of thatfacility, and they had a really
(01:32):
tight bond. So when I decided tochange Alex from a traditional
program to self directedprogram, Bayo continued working
with Alexander, and from there,we purchased a home. Both
Alexander and Bayo livedtogether; still do. And you
(01:55):
know, a friendship was formed,and from there, we decided to
take it a step further and lookat how we could improve people's
lives that are currently in selfdirected services by starting
our own experience for people.
Meghan Smallwood (02:13):
I kind of know a little bit of the background,
it wasn't just you. There wasother parents who had that
vision as well, right?
Adebayo Sodunke (02:20):
Since we started, you know, the vision
was all about Alex at thebeginning, because we know
there's so much out there thathe can do. We know all his
potentials, and we know one ofthe things that have caused them
to not be able to live to thoseanxious are, you know, the way
the traditional system was setup, not putting the member
first. So when we went selfdirected, we realized, okay, now
(02:43):
Alex could do more, right? Theopportunity is endless when we
can open the doors. And as wesee that progress with Alex and
seeing try tremendously, ofcourse, the struggle of autism
is still there, but we seeprogress in so many areas about
his engagement and activities,his willingness to go out and
explore new stuff. They're goingon a cop to ride, for instance,
(03:05):
you know, he wouldn't have donethat in the scope system. So
after that, we look like we wehave parents meeting with other
parents, and they share theirconcern, and they're so excited
to see others, you know, try,because all these women have
been part of his life somewherehere. So the girl was like,
Okay, how do we benefit fromthis? And Miss Donna, he has
always been like, I want to doit bigger than just for my
(03:27):
child. I want to leave a legacy.
I want Alice to leave a legacy.
And in the dreams, then you'vejust been fine. Every parent of
we've been where we are. We gotto where we are through the
fight from the parents. And wewant to be on that journey with
you guys. We want to experiencewhat our lesson is experiencing,
and the other members somethingdifferent. So it's been a
(03:47):
beautiful night.
Unknown (03:49):
I think we started off looking very differently at
autism and neurodiversity in away that doesn't preclude
someone from activities, butquite the opposite, that we open
that door and open the window tocapabilities. So it's unraveling
(04:09):
a person's likes their dislikes,and not just showing them what
they can do, but experiencingthat with them, and through that
process, they gain so much inthe way of confidence and
feeling, you know, feeling goodabout themselves. So it's really
(04:30):
a journey that we don't observesomeone take. We take it with
them. And I think that's why thedifference is so different. It's
like every child is our child,and as they experience life or
the complications that life cangive them, we help them through
(04:50):
those complications in a waythat is very connected. So we're
extremely connected to everysingle man. Member that's with
us.
Meghan Smallwood (05:02):
And I think you, you said it before. It's
the friendship like bio and Alexhad, and I've, like, just from
the one time I was over to yourlocation, in Mount Airy, you can
see that with all the peoplethere, like that was just so
different, I think, from otherplaces that I've been. And I
mean, that's, it's justextraordinary. And I loved
(05:23):
seeing those relationships, andI know the parents just love
that as well. And there's thatfear, you know, after the 21 of
like falling off the cliff andjust falling through the cracks
and not having thoserelationships that they had for
so many years in the schoolsystem, and I feel like you guys
are able to offer that. So it'sdefinitely special.
Patrick Cadigan (05:46):
And very quickly, as I'm sitting here
thinking about this, if youcould offer an explanation or a
definition of what thedifference is for our listeners
who are unfamiliar with theprogram, like if you had to walk
into a room and give a pitch towhat the difference is, what
(06:08):
would you say?
Adebayo Sodunke (06:11):
It's an enrichment program. It's a skill
enrichment program. It's a placewith friendship volunteer
opportunity, a place you get tofind your voice and have a voice
and have a place to use yourskills, shine your skills, and
punish them. Use this as ateaching skills. Learn from
others. When member come intothe difference, it's like a
shock to them at first, becausethey get to a place I could say
(06:34):
what I really feel. I can reallyhave a struggle, and I still get
loves, and nobody's fighting meback. So it's a place for
everybody to be able to bethemselves, and I go every
single day. Is to teach thatindependent skills, right? We
always say to the staff, make merelevant in your life. We are
going to give you every toolwithin our ability, time after
(06:55):
time to make sure not thatimportant to you, because you
can cook yourself now. You couldmake your own bed, you could go
to a job, even if you needsupport. It doesn't mean the
person is doing it for you.
They're there with you to helpyou land the job and get
promotions. So our job is toopen that door. We always say,
there's no box. You create thebox. People create the box. Our
job is to open that door tounlimited opportunities. You
(07:17):
have relationship, you buildfriendship. It's a lifetime.
Parents gonna go away before themembers goes away, right? So our
job is to create that communitythat stays as a bond that will
always be there for that memberfor the rest of their life.
Meghan Smallwood (07:31):
That's a great way to put it, because I feel
like so many times I'm talkingto families about thinking of
that circle of support for theirtheir loved one. And I know so
many don't want to admit they'renot going to be there for the
rest of their lives, but it is ahard pill to swallow, so having
that group of people that also,you know, embrace them and are
there for them is so important.
Donna Pidel (07:51):
That's so important. We say the same thing
Meghan all the time, and we talkto parents about the importance
of when your son or daughterleaves high school or leaves the
program with which they're in,that they wreck that the parents
recognize that their job is tocontinue to forge growth so that
(08:17):
that adult is becomes preparedto be as independent as is
possible, whatever thatindependence means for for each
person. And when a parent says,I'm not ready to let go, I
understand that as a parent, butat the same time, one has to put
(08:40):
them try to put themselves inthe place of that adult. One
day, that adult will have tonavigate life by themselves. And
it's not always fun for a parentto let go, but it is best for
that adult to start, you know,relinquishing a little bit of
(09:04):
control.
Meghan Smallwood (09:06):
And I like how you phrased, you know, the level
of independence that they canget, because I feel like every
one of our friends we're talkingabout has some form of
independence. And, you know,it's, it's not black and white.
There's, there's lots of graythere, and it can be a small
thing, but it's a monumentalachievement. And I think we need
to celebrate that. I love that.
So I guess, like when you werecoming up with the idea of, you
(09:30):
know, forming this program, werethere any resources? Was there
anyone else that you went to foradvice or an idea of how to get
started. They I feel likethere's so many parents out
there. They're, you know, theyhave that vision, and they want
exactly like, you know,customizing it, but they don't
know where to go.
Donna Pidel (09:52):
Yeah, I think I hear all the time parents that
say, I wish I I wish I could dothis. Yeah. Yeah. So I think
that for for us, we had actuallytalked about doing this for many
years, because we saw that therewas a gap and a need for people
to make their own decisions. Butas far as actually doing it, you
(10:16):
have to have some big girl andbig boy panties pull them up and
say, I'm going to do it. And forme, I think I have always had
the kind of character that goeswith my gut feeling and takes a
risk and just does it. We didn'thave any there wasn't anyone
doing what we were doing. So wedidn't really have anyone except
(10:39):
for ourselves to bounce off howto do it. Bayo is extremely
resourceful and creative withhow to react and interact with
people on of all levels ofabilities. So he has always been
(11:00):
a great resource and a greatinspiration to me personally.
Adebayo Sodunke (11:05):
And I will say that, thank you, mom, and I'm
very grateful. It takes a lot todo it. You know, I said, I
always say to people, we findit, we find pleasure in doing
it. But it's not as easy as itlook. It takes someone of a
magnitude to give up a wholecareer that's at the top, right?
And that is what the struggle ofmost...and that's why there's no
(11:26):
roadmap, because people are notwilling to do that. You know,
it's just, let's call it a spadea spade; to give up a whole
career and say, "I'm going tofollow a dream, gas, no
driveway, no pathway, I justhave to drive through the bush
and create a way." And by theway, we started this just right
after COVID. We still have a bitof COVID. That is another dagger
(11:47):
to it to say no businesses arehopeful, you really can't get
anybody you're not allowed tocommute. You're not allowed to
be in one place. But what we didis, it's a meeting space. It's
not a staying space. We come inthere, we get a plan for the
day. Everybody get to pick thealicat menu, and they get to go.
So we're really not using thespace as a needed space, but
(12:08):
it's space to meet and get outin the community. So there,
yeah, there is nothing out thereat that point that give us a
clear understanding. But we knowwhat we want, and we really say
we're going to do it, even ifit's only Alex, we're going to
do it every day.
Donna Pidel (12:22):
And we said, if we could survive in COVID...
...during COVID,after we got through COVID, I
Meghan Smallwood (12:24):
Yeah.
think that we would be very,very much more organized,
because we really didn't knowvery much of what we were doing.
We knew that we wanted to offerpeople skills to build on, but I
think you said a very importantthing, Meghan, which is building
(12:45):
community. So our goal from thevery beginning was so that when
parents are not able to bearound their children anymore
for aging, because of aging andwe all become seniors, that our
children, their children, wouldhave a community feeling. So if
(13:07):
they have a volunteeropportunity, and they don't turn
up to that volunteer opportunitythat they've been going to week
after week after week, thatsomeone at that facility would
say, well, where's Mary Jane,she's here every week and go
look for her and be concernedabout her. So that still stands
(13:27):
as today. We want to build ourgoal is to build community
around that person. And like biosaid, they we have probably 25
partners that give us jobs,volunteer opportunities and
various things, and we buildclose relationships with them so
that when that individual goesto that job and perhaps doesn't
(13:50):
show up, they're able to call usand say they didn't show up
today, where are they? I thinkthat's terribly important to
build community that reallycares about that person, so
that's why we did this.
Yeah, I lovethat, that their absences notice
because they're an importantmember of the community, kind of
(14:12):
going into it, then you talk alittle bit about your
connections. Can you tell us alittle bit about the program?
Because I know you started withone, and now you've got
multiple, multiple sites.
Adebayo Sodunke (14:21):
We say, you know, I could, I was just trying
to write the list of couple ofpartnerships that we've had in
town within the three, fourmajor city that we're in now, as
like, you know, I'm gonna getbecause we need to give them
their flowers. Because when westarted, there is nothing as
such as what we have in townfrom Mt. Airy. It was like a
little town with, you know,COVID going on. They have a
(14:43):
mayor election going on.
Everything is quiet, and it isthis little tiny company, the
little office, like, if, like, aas big as you can imagine it, we
come down the street. We'realways greeting everybody,
giving everybody positiveenergy. They come to our space
to do coffees and teas onWednesdays. I still remember
those days where the currentMayor just lost the election, so
(15:05):
he used to come with them, andsince then, we got a
relationship with Shiny Shell,Mommy Magic Cake, gas, smooth
displays, Ace Hardware, BlossomFlower, The Last Word, Mt Airy
Commons, Alpaca Farm, EeireInsurance, the Wagner meat
market, Mt. Airy Bowling. Andyou know, the Kiwanis Club, the
Mayor's office, the restock. Ican go on and on...
Donna Pidel (15:27):
And that's just in Mt. Airy.
Meghan Smallwood (15:28):
Wow!
Adebayo Sodunke (15:29):
...saying a little right? And the beauty of
what we started is when we firststart, we used to actually go to
those organizations and knock onthe doors and try to get in.
Now, organizations are walkingin and say, I want to be part of
this movement. I saw, I see youguys on Facebook. I want my
company attached to this. And itspeak to the testament not us,
but our members, because wealways say, "We're not coming to
(15:53):
get a free job with you. We'recoming to do a job, and we don't
want to just be at the bottom ofthe bottom. We need the same
opportunity to progress in yourorganization. Because I'm
a...have autism doesn't mean Icannot do stuff. I just need to
find a skill, an opportunitythat matters with my strengths."
So and that's what we do. Wedon't just get our members job.
(16:13):
We don't just get in onvolunteer opportunity. We listen
to their voice, we listen totheir team, their family, and we
understand that if we do that,the best way that we're good at
they tend to keep their job.
Like, for instance, somebodythat loves food and have a
weight issue, is we listen tothe parent and we listen to the
member. We encourage them; soone of the young lady we have
(16:35):
works at a flower shop. She'samazing at it. She even go on a
day off and say, "Hey, I want togo say hi to my co-workers.
Co-workers. You know, you knowit was called them friends. So
it is so important with what wedo, we always understand, like
our reason for getting the jobis different. We got bills to
pay. Sometimes our members needdifferent motivation. So that
(16:56):
friendsh...that relationshipmatter more to them, sometimes
not even the paycheck. Becausethey need they don't have a bill
to pay, so they can't connect onthe bill side. They can't
connect on you guys, you havefamily problem or financial
medical they go, I don't reallydeal with that. But if you build
it on relationship, these peoplethat you're working with, a
member was having a birthdayparty, and we're all in
(17:16):
Frederick last Friday. Amazingfamily brought the children over
them, you know, their membersover and they were like, oh my
goodness, this is what I wantfor my child on their birthday.
You know, this is not a school,but it's like, almost like a
walk experience now, where youget to go to your friend's
birthday party and hang out withyour friends family. So the
difference is, it's beyond justa program. It's not even a
(17:40):
program. It's pretty much like,sometimes, you know, people will
come in and say, This feels likea college atmosphere. Or it was
like, oh my goodness, this feelslike, you know, like a work
environment. But everybodyreally loved themselves. We have
a staff that used to be, youknow, in the police, in the
military, is work, so many jobsover 40 something. I mean, 50s,
(18:00):
it says buyer, for the firsttime on vacation, I couldn't
wait to go back to work. Thankyou for the opportunity. He
says, I look forward to see themembers and to come back. He
said, before in my life, I usedto go, Oh, get it. The vacation
is almost over, but now it'slike, I want to get back to
work. I want to be back withthose guys, and it's not just
(18:21):
staff. We're all equal. There'sno star bathroom members
bathroom, there's no specialcar. It's all a bunch of guys
and girls, ladies. It's justtime to be better and learn and
give you the opportunity toimpact life. It's best place to
be in the world every singleday. I'm telling you, I love
what I do. We are doing wheneverybody in their jobs is all
(18:42):
and we sing randomly pick ourstaff. We don't just hire people
just because they want a job. Wewant people that their heart
belongs there, the one thatdoesn't take it for granted.
They come in every single day,understand they have a role to
play. They have a job to do, andit's to help each member become
independent, feel loved, feelrespected. I feel like they're
(19:02):
on top of the world, becausethey're not defined by D.l.S.
They're defined by who theyare...
Meghan Smallwood (19:07):
Yeah.
Unknown (19:08):
And also, we love it so much. Meghan, this man keeps his
phone on all day and all night,24/7, so the members actually
text him...
Adebayo Sodunke (19:20):
On Facetime...
Donna Pidel (19:21):
...and Facetime; in the middle of the night, so it
could be two o'clock in themorning. If you call bio, he's
picking up the phone to everymember, every parent. So it's
sort of 24/7 we're on notbecause it's a job, but even a
lifestyle. It's a lifestyle.
It's a it's a cultural shift.
(19:45):
And it's funny, because I've,you know through my son, which
he's 36 in 1988 I saw, you know,the beginnings of autism, and
what was that? And nobody knewabout it. And then grow. Going
up through a system that treatedpeople, sometimes not very
fairly, sometimes not equally,and to go into a place like the
(20:11):
difference and actually change,to witness the change of culture
in day programs, because we'rebringing those, each individual
into the forefront and saying,This is what they can do. This
is what they're capable of. Youknow, we all use the same
bathroom. We all eat off of thesame plates. We don't eat
(20:31):
different food to them. And I dobelieve it has had an impact on
on the culture of where we standtoday, with people with
different abilities anddisabilities just driving it.
Patrick Cadigan (21:00):
This is where we'll pause our conversation
with Donna and Bayo from TheDifference. So please join us in
two weeks time, as we continuethis conversation.
We would love the informationfrom this and all our other
discussions to reach as manyfamilies as possible, and we
(21:22):
need your help to do that. Soplease like, follow and share
out our podcast. You can findour conversations on all the
major podcast platforms,including Apple, Spotify,
YouTube, music, and that's justnaming a few. So please share
and share often. You can alwaysfind the links to the
information from this discussionin our show notes.
Meghan Smallwood (21:45):
Check out our YouTube channel. We've done some
of the legwork for you bycurating videos of topics that
revolve around transition. Wehave playlists we cover
guardianship alternatives toguardianship ABLE accounts. And
there's still more to come as weare finding those videos that we
think will be valuable to use.
So please be sure to subscribethere as well. And then finally,
check out our website, which isfull of information and links to
(22:06):
resources around the transitionprocess. So make sure to go to
www postsecondarytransition com.
We thank you so much for thetime you spent with us, and look
forward to talking again soon.
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