December 9, 2024 • 27 mins
This week, hosts Meghan (Smallwood) and Patrick (Cadigan) feature a conversation with content creator Cody Leach. Cody's YouTube channel boasts 175k subscribers and he shares his journey to becoming a full-time YouTube content creator specializing in movie reviews. Cody emphasizes the importance of focusing on a niche, differences in sound for video-only content, the challenges of dealing with negative feedback and differences between live streaming and pre-recorded content. Join the conversation!
Episode Keywords:
YouTube content creator, horror movie reviews, transition process, student interviews, college experience, podcasting journey, video editing, audience engagement, recording space, live streaming, feedback management, equipment investment, content focus, editing process, niche content
Links:
Cody Leach -
YouTube (link)
Facebook (link)
Real Creators - Cody Leach's Journey From 0 to 100,000 Subscribers (link)
The Lost River Drive-In - Cody Leach Talks Horror & Advice For Content Creators (link)
To download a copy of a transcript for this episode or any of our previous conversations, click here.
Also visit our Podcast webpage to find links to all of our other discussions; go to www.p2transition.com.
Additional information about post-secondary transition can be found at our website.
The Post-Secondary Transition Podcast Facebook page.
Visit our YouTube Channel to find additional video resources.
Intro/Outro music by AudioCoffee from Pixabay.
Transition music by Joseph McDade from Transistor.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Meghan Smallwood (00:00):
Welcome. This is the Post Secondary Transition
Podcast where we haveconversations around the ins and
outs and everything in betweenof the transition process for
families of students withdisabilities. I'm one of the
hosts. My name is MeghanSmallwood, and I am a public
school transition coordinator.
And as always, I have my co hostwith me.
Patrick Cadigan (00:18):
My name is Patrick Cadigan. I am also a
public school transitioncoordinator. So the next two
discussions that we post aresomething a little bit different
for us, but it does parallelwith what we do.
Meghan Smallwood (00:32):
Yes, definitely.
Patrick Cadigan (00:34):
Background as part of the transition process.
You have heard Meghan and I talkabout the student interview,
we've had the opportunity totalk with students and ask them
about what they want to do orwhat they see themself doing.
Invariably, during theseinterviews, we constantly hear
students say that they want tobe YouTubers, right? Make videos
(00:56):
at home about something they'reinterested in. These could be
videos about video game walkthroughs, tips, tricks. It could
even be about goats and all theamazing things that go along
with being a goat. The idea,though, is usually followed by
(01:20):
success and becoming an onlinesensation. So Meghan and I
talked about it, and we hit onthe idea to ask someone who is
actually doing it; creating andpublishing content to YouTube.
So in comes Cody Leach. For theuninitiated, Cody is a YouTube
(01:41):
content creator that centers onreviews and commentary around
horror movies. He's doing prettywell for himself right now.
You'll hear in the discussionthat he committed to the
platform a few years ago, andlast time I looked, he has
around 175,000 subscribers andover 8 million views. So again,
(02:03):
he knows what he's talkingabout. So without further ado,
let's transition to ourdiscussion with Cody.
Meghan Smallwood (02:12):
Well, I know Patrick is "faning" out here,
but I don't know much about you,Cody. So do you mind telling us
a little bit about yourself,just your background, of like,
where you came from, yourschool, and kind of how you got
into what you're doing.
Cody Leach (02:25):
Yeah, so I was born in Toledo, Ohio, and I lived
there until I was about 14. Mydad got remarried. They wanted
to get out of Ohio, so then wemoved down to Georgia, and I've
been here ever since. So I wentto I went to high school in a
school called South EffinghamHigh School. It's actually just
down the road from me. So Istarted living here, moved away,
(02:48):
and then kind of looped backaround as an adult, and live
pretty close to where I grew upin my teenage years, I went to
college for a year and just itdidn't work out. Wasn't really
my thing. I don't think I chosethe right major. I don't think I
was properly prepped for whatcollege was. I don't know if
we'll get into that at all, butit just didn't work out. And
(03:09):
then just started working, juststarted finding whatever I
could. And went from a lot ofdifferent jobs, and eventually,
when I was 26 I was listening toa lot of podcasts at the time,
and I kept finding myselfwanting to, like, join the
conversation, almost liketalking to my radio, like there
was somebody there. And so thenI just I went on Amazon and
(03:32):
bought a little cheap deskmicrophone and downloaded Sound
Cloud a few other things, andstarted recording a little
podcast in my walk in closet inmy apartment, and did that for a
couple of months, the summer of2016 and then very quickly grew
out of it, where I just I wasintimidated with video editing.
(03:52):
I was intimidating with theequipment and, you know, the
cost of it, what's the goodstuff? You know, not knowing
anything. And then I just kindof committed I did just one day.
I bought a camera, I bought agreen screen, I bought Adobe
Premiere and everything else.
Locked myself into my bedroomfor an entire Saturday after I
recorded a quick little reviewand got my first video out and
pretty much treated it as justlike a hobby for a while. Like
(04:16):
go work all day, come home.
Every once in a while, there's amovie I want to talk about. I
would do that. And then startedkind of treating it as like a
second job, because I enjoyed itso much and started to see a
little bit of growth, and stuckwith it to the point where in
2021 I was able to actuallyleave my full time job and
pursue this full time whichworked out because I was
(04:38):
miserable at that job. So Idon't know what I would have
done if I didn't have anotheravenue, but I figured I'd just
bet on myself for a change, andI've been doing this full time
ever since, and I've seennothing but growth in the
channel is all like moviereviews and movie rankings and
discussions of different films.
And I also have a video gamechannel that's just kind of.
(04:59):
That's more of a hobby thing.
That's just something likeanother avenue to do some other
stuff that doesn't affect themain channel. But for the most
part, it's all all movierelated.
Meghan Smallwood (05:08):
I wanted to go back. You had mentioned about
going to college for a year.
What did you major in when youwent to college?
Cody Leach (05:15):
Civil Engineering.
Meghan Smallwood (05:17):
Oh, okay,
Cody Leach (05:18):
I was always really big in math and science. I was,
you know, like, just fractionshort of a 4.0 student there. I
always had, like, these advancedclasses and stuff, and so I was
always just a high performingperson when it comes to school,
work and my parents, I was thefirst person in my family to go
to college. So they were justlike, math and science, civil
(05:38):
engineering, lots of money gothis is what you need to do
this. And I think that was alesson that I learned early on,
that it's a very valuable thingto tell people is that don't
major in things that otherpeople tell you to major in. You
know, we always hear storiesabout people that change their
majors two, three times incollege. I think that's part of
the reason why that happenssometimes. But I basically just
listened to what my parents toldme to do. I was like, okay,
(06:00):
cool, I'll do that. And then Iwent there, and all the classes
were just like, this sucks. Andso it just, it did not hold my
interest at all. And yeah, Ionly lasted a year. And like I
said, I was a very highperforming student. And then I
think I was, there was twoclasses that I was pretty
practically failing in because Ijust could not engage with it
(06:21):
and then just rest his history.
After a year, I was like, Idon't know. I think I'm gonna
take a break, and I'm still on
Patrick Cadigan (06:27):
You decide at some point that you that this is
that break.
something that you want to do.
How did you come to the type ofcontent that you wanted to
share? Was that something thatit was a slow development over
time, or did you always, prettymuch know movie reviews is where
I am, and this is what I want todo.
Cody Leach (06:51):
I knew I wanted to do something related to movies,
but I kind of made the classicmistake that a lot of people
make when they join YouTube, isthat they try to do everything.
I think a lot of people joiningYouTube, they think, "Well, if I
have the channel that doeseverything, then I'm just gonna
skyrocket!" You know, if I havemovie reviews, and I can also do
DIYs, and I can do cooking likenobody does that, I'll be the
(07:11):
first one. And then you find outafter a while that YouTube
doesn't work that way. YouTubedoesn't like having the jack of
all trades. YouTube wants you tobe very focused and niche, and
so I wasn't quite that ambitiousas far as different styles of
channels, but I tried to do alittle everything. I tried to
have a movie news show, I triedto have a video game news show,
I tried to talk music, I triedto do reviews and rankings and
(07:34):
trailer reactions and everythingelse. And what I really was
passionate about early on wasjust the reviews. And
unfortunately, when I firststarted my channel, those are
the videos that were getting theleast amount of views, because I
wasn't really like anestablished voice or anything.
And so it was really just thestuff that was buzz worthy, like
trailer reactions, which I stilldon't understand the appeal of,
but a lot of people love thosethings. And so that's where I
(07:56):
was getting a lot of my views, alot of my subscribers from. I
was also noticing how much of areally big waste of time I was
doing with a lot of these newsshows. Because, especially with
being very green in the process,I was spending probably seven,
eight hours on one video, justbecause I didn't really know
what to do. And I was working onvery, very junky equipment at
(08:19):
the time, very slow computer. Itwould take, you know, four or
five hours to render and thenthree four hours to upload. And
I thought that was normal, andjust kind of slowly learning
that a lot of those thingsneeded to not happen. I can't
spend eight hours on a videothat six people watch, and four
of them are my parents. And Iwanted, and I really wanted, to
focus more on the review side.
So what I started doing was kindof getting rid of the stuff that
(08:41):
wasn't worth the amount of time,that wasn't, you know, an
efficient use of my time, andthen also started to back off on
things like the trailerreactions that were getting
views and getting subscribers,but not subscribers that were
interested in me, justsubscribers that were interested
in trailer reactions. So Istarted kind of running down a
lot of that, and I startedputting a lot more time and
(09:02):
effort and pumping out the stuffthat I actually wanted to be
known for, which was thereviews. And I noticed, after a
few months, you started to kindof see that shift where the
stuff that I really wanted to beknown for, and really wanted to
have people tune in and leavecomments and engage with started
to be the content that was themore premier content in like,
the first six, seven months ofmy channel.
Patrick Cadigan (09:25):
How do you track that? Are you going
through YouTube Studio in orderto be able to track that? Are
you engaging with your audience?
Are you listening to otherYouTubers? Where, where are you
getting your information from?
Cody Leach (09:38):
Most of it was just trial and error. I mean, there
was a few guys that I kind ofcame up with at the time that
started their channel around thesame time, a couple of them I'm
still friends with, where wewould kind of learn from each
other, like, do you try this?
Did this work? No, it didn't.
What happened? And so there wasa little bit of that. But for
more so just what I was talkingabout specifically, there was
just me kind of just forcing it,just seeing if it would work.
(09:59):
Like, I. Don't want to do this.
I don't understand it, buteverybody's watching it. I
really want to do this. So thenjust shifting what I do and kind
of just letting the audienceknow, like, this is where I'm
going. So grab a hold, or, youknow, understandably, find
somebody else to watch. And sothat was kind of the approach.
And you could, of course, lookin views and look in comments,
and when I first started tonotice the engagement side of
(10:20):
things change was when I startedto really focus in on horror
films specifically. So about,I'd say, five or so months into
my channel. It was Halloweenseason. My daughter was born,
and so things kind of sloweddown a lot, but I wanted to do
the October season that I missedout on because of the birth of
my daughter, I wanted to kind ofkeep that going, and so I
(10:41):
started to do a review series onthe night Ryan Elm Street
franchise, and I started tonotice that the comments started
to get a lot more frequent onthose videos. And I always loved
horror growing up, but I neverreally knew anybody that loved
it the way that I did. So italways kind of felt like I was
the odd man out. And I reallyfelt like there was anybody to
talk with that about. And thatwas the first time that I kind
(11:02):
of felt that, where I wastalking about these movies that
I love, and all of a sudden I'mseeing other people love them
too. And I'm like, Where haveyou guys been? And so there was
a lot of that where it was kindof intoxicating, where I'm like,
I get to talk about these thingsthat I've been, like, holding in
for 26 years. This is weird. Ilike it. And so it was a bit of
that, just seeing theengagement, seeing where people
(11:23):
actually wanted to haveconversations about the video,
rather than just like a thumbsup, thumbs down.
Meghan Smallwood (11:31):
I feel like that's what we experience so
much with our students who havethat, like niche and that
they're so interested in, butthey don't have anyone to share
it with. And I think that's whythey're so drawn to something
like YouTube so they can findthat group of people.
Cody Leach (11:44):
Yeah.
Patrick Cadigan (11:45):
From a technical standpoint, what does
recording look like for you? Andyou kind of alluded to it
before, as your channel hasgrown, do you feel like it grew
because of your investment in tothe equipment that you were
buying or do you think it wasbecause, like you were saying
before, like you were able tofocus in, focus better on what
(12:08):
it was that you wanted to talkabout, or both?
Cody Leach (12:11):
I mean, I think equipment is important, but I
don't think it's the end all beall. I tell people a lot, like
most people nowadays, haveeverything they need for a
YouTube channel in their pocket.
You know, they got cameras thatare so good now that, I mean,
the 4k capability of things likethis, we used to pay 1000s of
dollars for for just a littlestandalone device. And, you
know, sound, I think, is moreimportant than video. Most
(12:33):
people don't realize that, youknow, you can have a pretty good
looking video with outstandingsound, and people are going to
stick around for that more thanthey will something with
outstanding 4k and is how you'rewhat you're listening to. So as
long as you have pretty goodvideo and good sound, that's
really all you need. And so Istarted off having 720, P,
(12:57):
1080p, capability with video, Ihad a microphone that was decent
enough at the time, you know,compared to what I have now. It
sounds terrible, but it was goodenough. And so I always kind of
started at just the basic ofwhat I needed. I think that the
growth didn't come from theequipment, because I stayed with
that equipment for a very longtime. I never even upgraded my
(13:19):
camera until maybe six years in.
And so, you know, it didn't seemlike that big of a difference to
me until I go back and look atolder videos and I'm like, Oh my
God, look at it. You know, it'sjust for me. Now it looks like a
staggering difference. But Ithink it was just me. I think it
was the personality, I think itwas the engagement, I think it
(13:40):
was the style and the humor andeverything like that. And so
equipment is important to anextent, but it's, it's only a
piece of it. You know what Imean? I don't think it's the end
all be all.
Patrick Cadigan (13:54):
I remember when I first started watching your
channel, and I had alwaysappreciated one, the video
quality and then the soundquality and things. And I've
always been curious, do youscript what you're going to say,
or are you making it up as yougo along?
Cody Leach (14:12):
I go completely off the cuff. So I tried scripting
myself when I first started, andI just did not like the way that
it looked on video. It lookedlike I was kind of robotic to
me, even just using bulletpoints, it felt like I was too
structured. And I'm not astructured person, not too
structured of a person when Italk, you know, I so I started
(14:33):
to kind of just press record andsee what happened. And after a
little while, I started torealize that was kind of the
flow that I liked. And, youknow, sometimes it would hurt
me. Sometimes I would forgetthings. I'd get to the editing
part and be like, Oh, I didn'tmention that thing. And
sometimes it would, you know, Imight ramble on a little too
long, but that's what editing isfor. And so over time, that's
(14:55):
just been the way that I like todo it. Just formulate my
thoughts after I see the movieon the drive home. Whatever.
I've kind of trained my brain towatch a movie and like
information just starts tocompartmentalize as I watch it,
and then I turn the camera on,press record and go. But there
are some people that have toscript themselves out and do
very well with it. I have a lotof friends that script
(15:15):
themselves out. I have friendsthat just do bullet points. I
have friends that write anentire document. I will say
that's going to change how, howmuch you're going to be able to
put out, because if you have tosit there and type a full essay
before you even click record, Imean, that's another couple
hours added to the process. Soit's definitely a time saver for
me. But not everybody can dothat. So it really just depends
(15:36):
on what you're comfortable withand what your what your chosen
style is.
Patrick Cadigan (15:42):
This is probably more podcaster to
podcaster, but how do you avoidthe "Ohs" and the"Ums" and the
"You knows" like, because thatis not something that I
typically hear when you're doingyour talk.
Cody Leach (15:54):
I used to really be self conscious about those
little moments when I firststarted and when I would sit
there and edit, it would like, Iwould cringe every time I would
go, um, or like, just what yousaid. And so I think part of it
was just getting comfortable oncamera, getting comfortable
formulating my thoughts, andbeing able to talk a lot without
(16:15):
running out of things to say,which just comes with
experience. But I also think apart of it was just that
subconscious thing of me beingso mortified at how much I was
saying early on that like mybrain just started to train
itself not to say that. So Ithink most of it's just
experience. You know, whenyou're first starting, I would
do like, four minute videos, andfeel like I talked forever. And
(16:38):
nowadays, yeah, I turn thecamera on, and I talked for 30
minutes, and it's like, okay,that was a short video. So it
just comes with experience andcomfort on camera. Which does
you know, everybody has theirdifferent windows of
opportunity. Some people neverget comfortable on camera, but
that was the main thing for me,that I think took it a lot away,
having my own recording spacetoo, where I'm not, you know,
(17:00):
when I first started, I wasliterally in our dining room.
The whole house could hear me. Iwould make everybody go in their
rooms, like, shut the door,don't let me know you're in the
house. And so we can understandthat, yeah, there's a part of
that too, where, like, I wouldmake a mistake, and all of a
sudden I'd start, like, gettinganxious, like they know I'm
screwing up, they're listening.
And so being able to be in myown space and feel like this is
(17:20):
the whole world, just these fourwalls certainly helps with that
too.
Patrick Cadigan (17:27):
That, of course, was going to lead into
my next question. So you nowhave your own space to record.
And it sounds like that can be apretty important part of the
process is having your ownspace.
Cody Leach (17:40):
I mean, depending on your living situation, it can be
a massive difference. Like, Iwas a family man, so I had a
wife, I had two kids, and I hadan infant when I started this
channel. And so having arecording space that was not
isolated was rough. I mean, Iwish I had a picture of it.
There was, you know, you walkinto our apartment, you walk
through the door to the left isour dining room table. And
(18:02):
behind the dining room table wasmy green screen, and it was like
this little promise I was made,like, I'm gonna put it away one
day. Wife just never did it.
Just stayed there. And so therethat was part of it, was just
the frustration of, like, theeyesore of a studio in the
middle of where we're supposedto be eating. But then just the
the acoustics of it all this,not having four walls, not
having anything that you coulddo if there was anybody over, if
(18:24):
somebody knocking the door, ifthe dog started acting up. So
yeah, I went from my apartment,not having any recording space,
to a house that we rented for acouple of years where I did have
a room, but the issue with thatwas it had hardwood floors and
still being green and notunderstanding how sound works,
that caused a lot of echo, andso I had to do a lot in that
(18:47):
room to get rid of how terriblethe sound was. And then
eventually we moved into thishouse, and that was a big thing,
especially at that time. I mean,it was practically a second
paycheck. I wasn't full timeyet, but it was like, I have to
have my own space like it's it'sa non negotiable at this point.
So luckily, yes, I have thisroom here that's a full on
studio, and it makes a world ofdifference, just for comfort, if
(19:09):
nothing else, but especiallyjust for the technical side of
being able to record and nothave interruptions and not have
to constantly take yourequipment down and put it back
up and store it away. You canjust leave it up permanently if
you want to. It makes a world ofdifference.
Patrick Cadigan (19:26):
How long does it take you to do a video, and
what I mean, from recording topost production to publishing,
how much time are you investing?
Cody Leach (19:36):
It depends on the video, and it also depends on
your equipment. So I'm runningon a MacBook right now, which
has been a godsend since I gotit, because I had a little cheap
Toshiba laptop that, like Isaid, was 810, hours to edit
render post. Then I had a littlegaming laptop. They kind of cut
that in half, but that was stillridiculous. This good equipment,
(19:59):
a good. Laptop with a goodgraphics processor is very, very
important for that. But just asfar as a baseline, like just for
a regular review, I probablyrecord for about 30 minutes,
depending on the movie. Somemovies I don't have as much to
talk about. Some movies I have alot more. But average 2530
minutes recording, and probablyabout an hour to an hour and a
(20:21):
half of editing, and then 30minutes to get the thumbnail
together, put all the titles andtags and, you know, render the
video on YouTube and things likethat. And that's kind of an
average now, if it's a moreambitious video, like a big
ranking video, or a tier list orsomething where I'm putting a
lot more production into it.
Sometimes the editing of thosecan take two to four hours,
(20:42):
depending on how much I want todo with it. There's other videos
where I go completely crazy, andit can be seven to eight hours
of editing. So it really justdepends on the video itself and
your ambition level. I mean,there's people that go even
crazier than I do, and they cutevery single breath out of the
video, and they zoom in, andthey do all these different
(21:04):
things, and I just don't havethe patience for that. So maybe
that hurts me. Maybe I could beat 700,000 subscribers if I did
something like that, but for myediting style, yes, an average
start to finish probably three,three and a half hours per
video.
Patrick Cadigan (21:22):
One of the things that we have seen a lot
of and especially with students,and the students that we work
with, live streaming has becomea hot topic of conversation. Is
there a significant differencefor you as a content creator,
from the recording side to doingsomething like a live stream?
Because I do know I've seen youon live streams, and you know,
(21:43):
you join up with otherYouTubers. Is that a big
difference?
Cody Leach (21:47):
As far as the amount of time or as far as, like, the
value it brings to your channel?
Patrick Cadigan (21:51):
You know, honestly, I would say both.
Cody Leach (21:53):
Okay, I mean, it's definitely easier to do a live
stream because a lot of it'sjust kind of you talking and you
engaging and entertaining anaudience, rather than sitting at
a computer and editing andputting a lot of flash. Now, I
do try to have some video clipsor pictures or, you know,
background, something to makethe live stream flashier than
just my face on camera. But um,as far as the value it brings to
(22:17):
your channel, it brings a lotearly on, it doesn't have the
longevity of edited videos,edited content on my channel, at
least that's my experience. So Ido have some live streams that
can perform very well, like wedo a series called 31 on 31 on
my channel once or twice a year.
And it's a it's a big eventwhere me and a number of friends
get together, like our communitygets involved with it, where we
(22:39):
all rank 31 films, and theneventually we do a live stream
about a month later, and we kindof talk about our difference of
opinion, and that's usually kindof like the the season finale, I
guess, of that episode, andpeople get really into it,
because there's always heateddebates and there's always these
comedic moments that come outevery single time those videos
do extremely well for the firstcouple of weeks, but they don't
(23:02):
necessarily have the legs thatthe edited version does. And I
think a lot of that has to dowith especially now, with the
rise of things like tick tock,where people's attention span
when it comes to video contentis very short, and they want to
be they want to be hooked inseconds. But when you're editing
something, you can control that.
Where you have some, you know, avideo clip, or you have you
(23:24):
saying something, or a joke orsomething to lap somebody in
very quickly, and their whatevertopic they were searching for,
they know they're going to gettheir answers soon. When you
have a live stream, you don'tnecessarily have that, because
you usually have an intro, andthen you're engaging with the
audience. Hey, you know, let'ssee who's here, so and so is
here. What's going on, guys? Letme check out the chat. And
sometimes it's five six minutesbefore you're really getting
(23:46):
into the start of things. And Ithink people just don't have the
patience for that as much. So Itend to think of live stream
content as kind of a treat foryour already established
audience, but not necessarily atool to grab new subscribers or
new viewers. The way that editedcontent is.
Patrick Cadigan (24:05):
Do you engage with your audience? Do you get
feedback from them? And is thatfeedback valuable or...could you
speak to that?
Cody Leach (24:17):
That one really depends, because I actually
really appreciate gettingfeedback, but unfortunately,
with the nature of the internet,most of the feedback that I get
is like vitriol. If somebodywants to give me feedback, it's
because they don't enjoy me ordon't enjoy my channel. And so
it's meant to be a negativething, more so than a
constructive thing. Now you dohave some once in a while, like
(24:38):
I had one, there was a film thatcame out earlier this year
called Maxine that is veryinfluenced by Italian horror
films, which I notoriously, havenot had very much experience in.
And so I got a comment that Ireally appreciated, where
somebody said, you know, I thinkthis is the moment that you
should take to really pushyourself to start watching more
Italian horror, because you wantto be kind of the the horror.
(24:59):
Guy, but you're missing this bigchunk of horror history. And I
was like, that's 100% valid. Andthank you for phrasing it that
way. But more often it'd belike, This guy sucks. He doesn't
even know Italian whore. Youknow what I mean? That'd be the
version that I get. And it'slike, the the response you get
when you read that is not that'svalid. It's like, Man blocked,
(25:19):
you know what I mean? So it's,it's tough. You get a lot of
people that love what you'redoing, and they don't provide
any feedback. It's just good jobkeep doing what you're doing
that's awesome, which is good tohear. But then it kind of, you
know, after a while, you getnumb to it, and then you get the
hater side of it. And then oncein a great while, they're rare,
you get the comments like theone I just described, where it's
(25:39):
like, that's valid. I need totake that into consideration and
do something different.
Patrick Cadigan (25:44):
This is where we'll pause our discussion with
Cody, but please come back intwo weeks time where we will
finish this conversation.
Meghan Smallwood (25:59):
As always, you'll find links to the
information from ourconversations in our show notes.
We would love for theinformation from this and all
our other discussions to reachas many families as possible,
and we need your help to dothat. You can find our
conversations at www, dot P,twotransition.com, like, follow,
share out the podcast. Ourconversations are posted to all
(26:22):
the major platforms, includingApple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube
music, and that's just naming afew. So please share and share
often.
Patrick Cadigan (26:31):
Please check out our YouTube channel. We've
done some of the legwork for youby curating videos of topics
that revolve around transition.
We have playlists forguardianship, alternatives to
guardianship, ABLE accounts, andthere's more to come. So please
be sure to subscribe there aswell. And finally, check out our
website, which is full ofinformation and links to
resources around the transitionprocess. Open your web browser
(26:53):
of choice and surf towww.postsecondarytransition.com
we thank you so much for thetime that you've spent with us,
and look forward to talkingagain soon.
Welcome. This is the Post Secondary Transition
Podcast where we haveconversations around the ins and
outs and everything in betweenof the transition process for
families of students withdisabilities. I'm one of the
hosts. My name is MeghanSmallwood, and I am a public
school transition coordinator.
And as always, I have my co hostwith me.
Patrick Cadigan (00:18):
My name is Patrick Cadigan. I am also a
public school transitioncoordinator. So the next two
discussions that we post aresomething a little bit different
for us, but it does parallelwith what we do.
Meghan Smallwood (00:32):
Yes, definitely.
Patrick Cadigan (00:34):
Background as part of the transition process.
You have heard Meghan and I talkabout the student interview,
we've had the opportunity totalk with students and ask them
about what they want to do orwhat they see themself doing.
Invariably, during theseinterviews, we constantly hear
students say that they want tobe YouTubers, right? Make videos
(00:56):
at home about something they'reinterested in. These could be
videos about video game walkthroughs, tips, tricks. It could
even be about goats and all theamazing things that go along
with being a goat. The idea,though, is usually followed by
(01:20):
success and becoming an onlinesensation. So Meghan and I
talked about it, and we hit onthe idea to ask someone who is
actually doing it; creating andpublishing content to YouTube.
So in comes Cody Leach. For theuninitiated, Cody is a YouTube
(01:41):
content creator that centers onreviews and commentary around
horror movies. He's doing prettywell for himself right now.
You'll hear in the discussionthat he committed to the
platform a few years ago, andlast time I looked, he has
around 175,000 subscribers andover 8 million views. So again,
(02:03):
he knows what he's talkingabout. So without further ado,
let's transition to ourdiscussion with Cody.
Meghan Smallwood (02:12):
Well, I know Patrick is "faning" out here,
but I don't know much about you,Cody. So do you mind telling us
a little bit about yourself,just your background, of like,
where you came from, yourschool, and kind of how you got
into what you're doing.
Cody Leach (02:25):
Yeah, so I was born in Toledo, Ohio, and I lived
there until I was about 14. Mydad got remarried. They wanted
to get out of Ohio, so then wemoved down to Georgia, and I've
been here ever since. So I wentto I went to high school in a
school called South EffinghamHigh School. It's actually just
down the road from me. So Istarted living here, moved away,
(02:48):
and then kind of looped backaround as an adult, and live
pretty close to where I grew upin my teenage years, I went to
college for a year and just itdidn't work out. Wasn't really
my thing. I don't think I chosethe right major. I don't think I
was properly prepped for whatcollege was. I don't know if
we'll get into that at all, butit just didn't work out. And
(03:09):
then just started working, juststarted finding whatever I
could. And went from a lot ofdifferent jobs, and eventually,
when I was 26 I was listening toa lot of podcasts at the time,
and I kept finding myselfwanting to, like, join the
conversation, almost liketalking to my radio, like there
was somebody there. And so thenI just I went on Amazon and
(03:32):
bought a little cheap deskmicrophone and downloaded Sound
Cloud a few other things, andstarted recording a little
podcast in my walk in closet inmy apartment, and did that for a
couple of months, the summer of2016 and then very quickly grew
out of it, where I just I wasintimidated with video editing.
(03:52):
I was intimidating with theequipment and, you know, the
cost of it, what's the goodstuff? You know, not knowing
anything. And then I just kindof committed I did just one day.
I bought a camera, I bought agreen screen, I bought Adobe
Premiere and everything else.
Locked myself into my bedroomfor an entire Saturday after I
recorded a quick little reviewand got my first video out and
pretty much treated it as justlike a hobby for a while. Like
(04:16):
go work all day, come home.
Every once in a while, there's amovie I want to talk about. I
would do that. And then startedkind of treating it as like a
second job, because I enjoyed itso much and started to see a
little bit of growth, and stuckwith it to the point where in
2021 I was able to actuallyleave my full time job and
pursue this full time whichworked out because I was
(04:38):
miserable at that job. So Idon't know what I would have
done if I didn't have anotheravenue, but I figured I'd just
bet on myself for a change, andI've been doing this full time
ever since, and I've seennothing but growth in the
channel is all like moviereviews and movie rankings and
discussions of different films.
And I also have a video gamechannel that's just kind of.
(04:59):
That's more of a hobby thing.
That's just something likeanother avenue to do some other
stuff that doesn't affect themain channel. But for the most
part, it's all all movierelated.
Meghan Smallwood (05:08):
I wanted to go back. You had mentioned about
going to college for a year.
What did you major in when youwent to college?
Cody Leach (05:15):
Civil Engineering.
Meghan Smallwood (05:17):
Oh, okay,
Cody Leach (05:18):
I was always really big in math and science. I was,
you know, like, just fractionshort of a 4.0 student there. I
always had, like, these advancedclasses and stuff, and so I was
always just a high performingperson when it comes to school,
work and my parents, I was thefirst person in my family to go
to college. So they were justlike, math and science, civil
(05:38):
engineering, lots of money gothis is what you need to do
this. And I think that was alesson that I learned early on,
that it's a very valuable thingto tell people is that don't
major in things that otherpeople tell you to major in. You
know, we always hear storiesabout people that change their
majors two, three times incollege. I think that's part of
the reason why that happenssometimes. But I basically just
listened to what my parents toldme to do. I was like, okay,
(06:00):
cool, I'll do that. And then Iwent there, and all the classes
were just like, this sucks. Andso it just, it did not hold my
interest at all. And yeah, Ionly lasted a year. And like I
said, I was a very highperforming student. And then I
think I was, there was twoclasses that I was pretty
practically failing in because Ijust could not engage with it
(06:21):
and then just rest his history.
After a year, I was like, Idon't know. I think I'm gonna
take a break, and I'm still on
Patrick Cadigan (06:27):
You decide at some point that you that this is
that break.
something that you want to do.
How did you come to the type ofcontent that you wanted to
share? Was that something thatit was a slow development over
time, or did you always, prettymuch know movie reviews is where
I am, and this is what I want todo.
Cody Leach (06:51):
I knew I wanted to do something related to movies,
but I kind of made the classicmistake that a lot of people
make when they join YouTube, isthat they try to do everything.
I think a lot of people joiningYouTube, they think, "Well, if I
have the channel that doeseverything, then I'm just gonna
skyrocket!" You know, if I havemovie reviews, and I can also do
DIYs, and I can do cooking likenobody does that, I'll be the
(07:11):
first one. And then you find outafter a while that YouTube
doesn't work that way. YouTubedoesn't like having the jack of
all trades. YouTube wants you tobe very focused and niche, and
so I wasn't quite that ambitiousas far as different styles of
channels, but I tried to do alittle everything. I tried to
have a movie news show, I triedto have a video game news show,
I tried to talk music, I triedto do reviews and rankings and
(07:34):
trailer reactions and everythingelse. And what I really was
passionate about early on wasjust the reviews. And
unfortunately, when I firststarted my channel, those are
the videos that were getting theleast amount of views, because I
wasn't really like anestablished voice or anything.
And so it was really just thestuff that was buzz worthy, like
trailer reactions, which I stilldon't understand the appeal of,
but a lot of people love thosethings. And so that's where I
(07:56):
was getting a lot of my views, alot of my subscribers from. I
was also noticing how much of areally big waste of time I was
doing with a lot of these newsshows. Because, especially with
being very green in the process,I was spending probably seven,
eight hours on one video, justbecause I didn't really know
what to do. And I was working onvery, very junky equipment at
(08:19):
the time, very slow computer. Itwould take, you know, four or
five hours to render and thenthree four hours to upload. And
I thought that was normal, andjust kind of slowly learning
that a lot of those thingsneeded to not happen. I can't
spend eight hours on a videothat six people watch, and four
of them are my parents. And Iwanted, and I really wanted, to
focus more on the review side.
So what I started doing was kindof getting rid of the stuff that
(08:41):
wasn't worth the amount of time,that wasn't, you know, an
efficient use of my time, andthen also started to back off on
things like the trailerreactions that were getting
views and getting subscribers,but not subscribers that were
interested in me, justsubscribers that were interested
in trailer reactions. So Istarted kind of running down a
lot of that, and I startedputting a lot more time and
(09:02):
effort and pumping out the stuffthat I actually wanted to be
known for, which was thereviews. And I noticed, after a
few months, you started to kindof see that shift where the
stuff that I really wanted to beknown for, and really wanted to
have people tune in and leavecomments and engage with started
to be the content that was themore premier content in like,
the first six, seven months ofmy channel.
Patrick Cadigan (09:25):
How do you track that? Are you going
through YouTube Studio in orderto be able to track that? Are
you engaging with your audience?
Are you listening to otherYouTubers? Where, where are you
getting your information from?
Cody Leach (09:38):
Most of it was just trial and error. I mean, there
was a few guys that I kind ofcame up with at the time that
started their channel around thesame time, a couple of them I'm
still friends with, where wewould kind of learn from each
other, like, do you try this?
Did this work? No, it didn't.
What happened? And so there wasa little bit of that. But for
more so just what I was talkingabout specifically, there was
just me kind of just forcing it,just seeing if it would work.
(09:59):
Like, I. Don't want to do this.
I don't understand it, buteverybody's watching it. I
really want to do this. So thenjust shifting what I do and kind
of just letting the audienceknow, like, this is where I'm
going. So grab a hold, or, youknow, understandably, find
somebody else to watch. And sothat was kind of the approach.
And you could, of course, lookin views and look in comments,
and when I first started tonotice the engagement side of
(10:20):
things change was when I startedto really focus in on horror
films specifically. So about,I'd say, five or so months into
my channel. It was Halloweenseason. My daughter was born,
and so things kind of sloweddown a lot, but I wanted to do
the October season that I missedout on because of the birth of
my daughter, I wanted to kind ofkeep that going, and so I
(10:41):
started to do a review series onthe night Ryan Elm Street
franchise, and I started tonotice that the comments started
to get a lot more frequent onthose videos. And I always loved
horror growing up, but I neverreally knew anybody that loved
it the way that I did. So italways kind of felt like I was
the odd man out. And I reallyfelt like there was anybody to
talk with that about. And thatwas the first time that I kind
(11:02):
of felt that, where I wastalking about these movies that
I love, and all of a sudden I'mseeing other people love them
too. And I'm like, Where haveyou guys been? And so there was
a lot of that where it was kindof intoxicating, where I'm like,
I get to talk about these thingsthat I've been, like, holding in
for 26 years. This is weird. Ilike it. And so it was a bit of
that, just seeing theengagement, seeing where people
(11:23):
actually wanted to haveconversations about the video,
rather than just like a thumbsup, thumbs down.
Meghan Smallwood (11:31):
I feel like that's what we experience so
much with our students who havethat, like niche and that
they're so interested in, butthey don't have anyone to share
it with. And I think that's whythey're so drawn to something
like YouTube so they can findthat group of people.
Cody Leach (11:44):
Yeah.
Patrick Cadigan (11:45):
From a technical standpoint, what does
recording look like for you? Andyou kind of alluded to it
before, as your channel hasgrown, do you feel like it grew
because of your investment in tothe equipment that you were
buying or do you think it wasbecause, like you were saying
before, like you were able tofocus in, focus better on what
(12:08):
it was that you wanted to talkabout, or both?
Cody Leach (12:11):
I mean, I think equipment is important, but I
don't think it's the end all beall. I tell people a lot, like
most people nowadays, haveeverything they need for a
YouTube channel in their pocket.
You know, they got cameras thatare so good now that, I mean,
the 4k capability of things likethis, we used to pay 1000s of
dollars for for just a littlestandalone device. And, you
know, sound, I think, is moreimportant than video. Most
(12:33):
people don't realize that, youknow, you can have a pretty good
looking video with outstandingsound, and people are going to
stick around for that more thanthey will something with
outstanding 4k and is how you'rewhat you're listening to. So as
long as you have pretty goodvideo and good sound, that's
really all you need. And so Istarted off having 720, P,
(12:57):
1080p, capability with video, Ihad a microphone that was decent
enough at the time, you know,compared to what I have now. It
sounds terrible, but it was goodenough. And so I always kind of
started at just the basic ofwhat I needed. I think that the
growth didn't come from theequipment, because I stayed with
that equipment for a very longtime. I never even upgraded my
(13:19):
camera until maybe six years in.
And so, you know, it didn't seemlike that big of a difference to
me until I go back and look atolder videos and I'm like, Oh my
God, look at it. You know, it'sjust for me. Now it looks like a
staggering difference. But Ithink it was just me. I think it
was the personality, I think itwas the engagement, I think it
(13:40):
was the style and the humor andeverything like that. And so
equipment is important to anextent, but it's, it's only a
piece of it. You know what Imean? I don't think it's the end
all be all.
Patrick Cadigan (13:54):
I remember when I first started watching your
channel, and I had alwaysappreciated one, the video
quality and then the soundquality and things. And I've
always been curious, do youscript what you're going to say,
or are you making it up as yougo along?
Cody Leach (14:12):
I go completely off the cuff. So I tried scripting
myself when I first started, andI just did not like the way that
it looked on video. It lookedlike I was kind of robotic to
me, even just using bulletpoints, it felt like I was too
structured. And I'm not astructured person, not too
structured of a person when Italk, you know, I so I started
(14:33):
to kind of just press record andsee what happened. And after a
little while, I started torealize that was kind of the
flow that I liked. And, youknow, sometimes it would hurt
me. Sometimes I would forgetthings. I'd get to the editing
part and be like, Oh, I didn'tmention that thing. And
sometimes it would, you know, Imight ramble on a little too
long, but that's what editing isfor. And so over time, that's
(14:55):
just been the way that I like todo it. Just formulate my
thoughts after I see the movieon the drive home. Whatever.
I've kind of trained my brain towatch a movie and like
information just starts tocompartmentalize as I watch it,
and then I turn the camera on,press record and go. But there
are some people that have toscript themselves out and do
very well with it. I have a lotof friends that script
(15:15):
themselves out. I have friendsthat just do bullet points. I
have friends that write anentire document. I will say
that's going to change how, howmuch you're going to be able to
put out, because if you have tosit there and type a full essay
before you even click record, Imean, that's another couple
hours added to the process. Soit's definitely a time saver for
me. But not everybody can dothat. So it really just depends
(15:36):
on what you're comfortable withand what your what your chosen
style is.
Patrick Cadigan (15:42):
This is probably more podcaster to
podcaster, but how do you avoidthe "Ohs" and the"Ums" and the
"You knows" like, because thatis not something that I
typically hear when you're doingyour talk.
Cody Leach (15:54):
I used to really be self conscious about those
little moments when I firststarted and when I would sit
there and edit, it would like, Iwould cringe every time I would
go, um, or like, just what yousaid. And so I think part of it
was just getting comfortable oncamera, getting comfortable
formulating my thoughts, andbeing able to talk a lot without
(16:15):
running out of things to say,which just comes with
experience. But I also think apart of it was just that
subconscious thing of me beingso mortified at how much I was
saying early on that like mybrain just started to train
itself not to say that. So Ithink most of it's just
experience. You know, whenyou're first starting, I would
do like, four minute videos, andfeel like I talked forever. And
(16:38):
nowadays, yeah, I turn thecamera on, and I talked for 30
minutes, and it's like, okay,that was a short video. So it
just comes with experience andcomfort on camera. Which does
you know, everybody has theirdifferent windows of
opportunity. Some people neverget comfortable on camera, but
that was the main thing for me,that I think took it a lot away,
having my own recording spacetoo, where I'm not, you know,
(17:00):
when I first started, I wasliterally in our dining room.
The whole house could hear me. Iwould make everybody go in their
rooms, like, shut the door,don't let me know you're in the
house. And so we can understandthat, yeah, there's a part of
that too, where, like, I wouldmake a mistake, and all of a
sudden I'd start, like, gettinganxious, like they know I'm
screwing up, they're listening.
And so being able to be in myown space and feel like this is
(17:20):
the whole world, just these fourwalls certainly helps with that
too.
Patrick Cadigan (17:27):
That, of course, was going to lead into
my next question. So you nowhave your own space to record.
And it sounds like that can be apretty important part of the
process is having your ownspace.
Cody Leach (17:40):
I mean, depending on your living situation, it can be
a massive difference. Like, Iwas a family man, so I had a
wife, I had two kids, and I hadan infant when I started this
channel. And so having arecording space that was not
isolated was rough. I mean, Iwish I had a picture of it.
There was, you know, you walkinto our apartment, you walk
through the door to the left isour dining room table. And
(18:02):
behind the dining room table wasmy green screen, and it was like
this little promise I was made,like, I'm gonna put it away one
day. Wife just never did it.
Just stayed there. And so therethat was part of it, was just
the frustration of, like, theeyesore of a studio in the
middle of where we're supposedto be eating. But then just the
the acoustics of it all this,not having four walls, not
having anything that you coulddo if there was anybody over, if
(18:24):
somebody knocking the door, ifthe dog started acting up. So
yeah, I went from my apartment,not having any recording space,
to a house that we rented for acouple of years where I did have
a room, but the issue with thatwas it had hardwood floors and
still being green and notunderstanding how sound works,
that caused a lot of echo, andso I had to do a lot in that
(18:47):
room to get rid of how terriblethe sound was. And then
eventually we moved into thishouse, and that was a big thing,
especially at that time. I mean,it was practically a second
paycheck. I wasn't full timeyet, but it was like, I have to
have my own space like it's it'sa non negotiable at this point.
So luckily, yes, I have thisroom here that's a full on
studio, and it makes a world ofdifference, just for comfort, if
(19:09):
nothing else, but especiallyjust for the technical side of
being able to record and nothave interruptions and not have
to constantly take yourequipment down and put it back
up and store it away. You canjust leave it up permanently if
you want to. It makes a world ofdifference.
Patrick Cadigan (19:26):
How long does it take you to do a video, and
what I mean, from recording topost production to publishing,
how much time are you investing?
Cody Leach (19:36):
It depends on the video, and it also depends on
your equipment. So I'm runningon a MacBook right now, which
has been a godsend since I gotit, because I had a little cheap
Toshiba laptop that, like Isaid, was 810, hours to edit
render post. Then I had a littlegaming laptop. They kind of cut
that in half, but that was stillridiculous. This good equipment,
(19:59):
a good. Laptop with a goodgraphics processor is very, very
important for that. But just asfar as a baseline, like just for
a regular review, I probablyrecord for about 30 minutes,
depending on the movie. Somemovies I don't have as much to
talk about. Some movies I have alot more. But average 2530
minutes recording, and probablyabout an hour to an hour and a
(20:21):
half of editing, and then 30minutes to get the thumbnail
together, put all the titles andtags and, you know, render the
video on YouTube and things likethat. And that's kind of an
average now, if it's a moreambitious video, like a big
ranking video, or a tier list orsomething where I'm putting a
lot more production into it.
Sometimes the editing of thosecan take two to four hours,
(20:42):
depending on how much I want todo with it. There's other videos
where I go completely crazy, andit can be seven to eight hours
of editing. So it really justdepends on the video itself and
your ambition level. I mean,there's people that go even
crazier than I do, and they cutevery single breath out of the
video, and they zoom in, andthey do all these different
(21:04):
things, and I just don't havethe patience for that. So maybe
that hurts me. Maybe I could beat 700,000 subscribers if I did
something like that, but for myediting style, yes, an average
start to finish probably three,three and a half hours per
video.
Patrick Cadigan (21:22):
One of the things that we have seen a lot
of and especially with students,and the students that we work
with, live streaming has becomea hot topic of conversation. Is
there a significant differencefor you as a content creator,
from the recording side to doingsomething like a live stream?
Because I do know I've seen youon live streams, and you know,
(21:43):
you join up with otherYouTubers. Is that a big
difference?
Cody Leach (21:47):
As far as the amount of time or as far as, like, the
value it brings to your channel?
Patrick Cadigan (21:51):
You know, honestly, I would say both.
Cody Leach (21:53):
Okay, I mean, it's definitely easier to do a live
stream because a lot of it'sjust kind of you talking and you
engaging and entertaining anaudience, rather than sitting at
a computer and editing andputting a lot of flash. Now, I
do try to have some video clipsor pictures or, you know,
background, something to makethe live stream flashier than
just my face on camera. But um,as far as the value it brings to
(22:17):
your channel, it brings a lotearly on, it doesn't have the
longevity of edited videos,edited content on my channel, at
least that's my experience. So Ido have some live streams that
can perform very well, like wedo a series called 31 on 31 on
my channel once or twice a year.
And it's a it's a big eventwhere me and a number of friends
get together, like our communitygets involved with it, where we
(22:39):
all rank 31 films, and theneventually we do a live stream
about a month later, and we kindof talk about our difference of
opinion, and that's usually kindof like the the season finale, I
guess, of that episode, andpeople get really into it,
because there's always heateddebates and there's always these
comedic moments that come outevery single time those videos
do extremely well for the firstcouple of weeks, but they don't
(23:02):
necessarily have the legs thatthe edited version does. And I
think a lot of that has to dowith especially now, with the
rise of things like tick tock,where people's attention span
when it comes to video contentis very short, and they want to
be they want to be hooked inseconds. But when you're editing
something, you can control that.
Where you have some, you know, avideo clip, or you have you
(23:24):
saying something, or a joke orsomething to lap somebody in
very quickly, and their whatevertopic they were searching for,
they know they're going to gettheir answers soon. When you
have a live stream, you don'tnecessarily have that, because
you usually have an intro, andthen you're engaging with the
audience. Hey, you know, let'ssee who's here, so and so is
here. What's going on, guys? Letme check out the chat. And
sometimes it's five six minutesbefore you're really getting
(23:46):
into the start of things. And Ithink people just don't have the
patience for that as much. So Itend to think of live stream
content as kind of a treat foryour already established
audience, but not necessarily atool to grab new subscribers or
new viewers. The way that editedcontent is.
Patrick Cadigan (24:05):
Do you engage with your audience? Do you get
feedback from them? And is thatfeedback valuable or...could you
speak to that?
Cody Leach (24:17):
That one really depends, because I actually
really appreciate gettingfeedback, but unfortunately,
with the nature of the internet,most of the feedback that I get
is like vitriol. If somebodywants to give me feedback, it's
because they don't enjoy me ordon't enjoy my channel. And so
it's meant to be a negativething, more so than a
constructive thing. Now you dohave some once in a while, like
(24:38):
I had one, there was a film thatcame out earlier this year
called Maxine that is veryinfluenced by Italian horror
films, which I notoriously, havenot had very much experience in.
And so I got a comment that Ireally appreciated, where
somebody said, you know, I thinkthis is the moment that you
should take to really pushyourself to start watching more
Italian horror, because you wantto be kind of the the horror.
(24:59):
Guy, but you're missing this bigchunk of horror history. And I
was like, that's 100% valid. Andthank you for phrasing it that
way. But more often it'd belike, This guy sucks. He doesn't
even know Italian whore. Youknow what I mean? That'd be the
version that I get. And it'slike, the the response you get
when you read that is not that'svalid. It's like, Man blocked,
(25:19):
you know what I mean? So it's,it's tough. You get a lot of
people that love what you'redoing, and they don't provide
any feedback. It's just good jobkeep doing what you're doing
that's awesome, which is good tohear. But then it kind of, you
know, after a while, you getnumb to it, and then you get the
hater side of it. And then oncein a great while, they're rare,
you get the comments like theone I just described, where it's
(25:39):
like, that's valid. I need totake that into consideration and
do something different.
Patrick Cadigan (25:44):
This is where we'll pause our discussion with
Cody, but please come back intwo weeks time where we will
finish this conversation.
Meghan Smallwood (25:59):
As always, you'll find links to the
information from ourconversations in our show notes.
We would love for theinformation from this and all
our other discussions to reachas many families as possible,
and we need your help to dothat. You can find our
conversations at www, dot P,twotransition.com, like, follow,
share out the podcast. Ourconversations are posted to all
(26:22):
the major platforms, includingApple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube
music, and that's just naming afew. So please share and share
often.
Patrick Cadigan (26:31):
Please check out our YouTube channel. We've
done some of the legwork for youby curating videos of topics
that revolve around transition.
We have playlists forguardianship, alternatives to
guardianship, ABLE accounts, andthere's more to come. So please
be sure to subscribe there aswell. And finally, check out our
website, which is full ofinformation and links to
resources around the transitionprocess. Open your web browser
(26:53):
of choice and surf towww.postsecondarytransition.com
we thank you so much for thetime that you've spent with us,
and look forward to talkingagain soon.
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