May 27, 2025 • 23 mins
Hosts Meghan (Smallwood) and Patrick (Cadigan) work to broadly discuss transportation and travel training for students with disabilities, while recognizing its a tricky topic due to regional differences. They highlight the challenges families face in getting students to jobs and community activities, they explore school-provided travel training, public transportation options, and the importance of etiquette and safety on buses. They mention resources like the Regional Transportation Authority (RTA) card and the potential roles of DD and VR agencies in providing transportation services. All this and more, so join the conversation!
Episode Keywords:
transportation, travel training, public school transition, community access, public transportation, travel etiquette, RTA card, DD agencies, VR agencies, driving assessment, adaptive driving, Eric's ID law, LISS funding, handicap parking, MVA accommodations
Links:
Travel Training (Link)
Maryland (specific) Links/Supports:
Regional Transportation Agency of Central Maryland (site)
Rapid Ride (site)
Developmental Disabilities Administration (DDA) Transportation Services Information (site)
Resources for Accommodations at the MVA
(Link 1)
(Link 2)
Eric’s ID Law (article)
To download a copy of a transcript for this episode or any of our previous conversations, click here.
Also visit our Podcast webpage to find links to all of our other discussions; go to www.p2transition.com.
Additional information about post-secondary transition can be found at our website.
The Post-Secondary Transition Podcast Facebook page.
Visit our YouTube Channel to find additional video resources.
Intro/Outro music by AudioCoffee from Pixabay.
Transition music by Joseph McDade from Transistor.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Patrick Cadigan (00:00):
Welcome. This is the Post Secondary Transition
(00:02):
podcast, where we haveconversations around the ins and
outs and everything in betweenof the transition process for
families of students withdisabilities. I'm one of the
hosts. My name is PatrickCadigan, and I am a public
school transition coordinator.
As always, I have a co host, andwho would that be?
Meghan Smallwood (00:18):
I am Meghan Smallwood, and I am also a
public school transitioncoordinator.
Patrick Cadigan (00:22):
All right, so here we are. We are back once
again, and this time we wantedto drill down, and we wanted to
talk about something, an issuethat comes up all of the time,
but is a little tricky to talkabout, and that is
transportation and traveltraining, and in some of our
(00:44):
previous discussions with someof our guests, transportation
has come up quite a bit, and sowe definitely know that it's one
of those hot topics because itit causes issues and limitations
for our crew as They attempt toenter that that post secondary
world and be as independent aspossible. Now we've had students
(01:06):
who have successfully appliedand been offered a job, but
they've struggled to figure outhow to get there. In fact, it is
one of the things that Ispecifically am going through
right now with one of my one ofmy students and and it, it can
be very tricky. And parents,they are frustrated to get
(01:26):
access to the community withoutconstantly having to drive them.
And so the big question is, is,what are the options that they
have now? This is a trickyconversation to have, because so
many areas are so verydifferent. So obviously, the
conversation that we're about tohave is going to be area
(01:47):
specific to us. However. We'rehoping that just by having the
conversation that families whoare going through this will
start to kind of know thequestions to ask, and we will be
sharing out some resources. ButI mean, again, they are probably
(02:07):
going to be pretty specific toour area. We did want to have a
general conversation abouttransportation and travel
training. So even trying to talkabout this, Meghan, even just
the introduction is giving me ismaking me tense.
Meghan Smallwood (02:19):
Oh, I know it.
And unfortunately, in our area,there's not many options, and
that's what we always hear, likewe have these great
opportunities, but how do we getthere? And like Patrick said,
you know, we know it'sdifferent, depending on where
you live, but hopefully this cantrigger some thoughts and
conversations about what optionsthere could be, or help you to
explore what the possibilitycould look like. So we're going
(02:39):
to just chat a little bit aboutwhat can be accessed. And it is
a collection of ideas, and weknow it kind of crosses the
range of all our students. Soyeah, we'll just, we'll just
dive right in.
Patrick Cadigan (02:57):
One of the first questions that I think
that where we should open thisup is, do school systems provide
travel training?
Meghan Smallwood (03:06):
Yeah, again, that's kind of like specific to
where you live, but I know inour county, that is something
that we we've tried to do everyyear, and we're trying to do it
on a greater scale. And I knowsome of the organizations, the
state funded organizations inour area have done it in the
past, and with budget cuts andfunding and whatnot, it's kind
(03:26):
of lessened, but I think they'retrying to get back to it anyway.
From a school point of view, wedefinitely work on doing it. We
will have people from ourtransit come in to discuss the
benefits of what publictransportation can be for them.
You know, we share with thembecause, of course, some of our
students are like, I'll justcall an Uber, or I'll just call
(03:47):
Lyft. Well, this is a lot lessexpensive than driving or taking
one of those, so it's a greatoption. You can get to a lot of
the places you'd like, in thecommunity, or to your job. You
know, you can visit people. It'sgood for the environment. It
helps promote your independence.
And now, with the way we've gonewith technology, it's easier
because there's an app in ourarea that you can track it in
(04:11):
real time. You know, you know,if there's anything happening
with the bus, you can actually,like, find it very easy in the
area, and when you get on thebus, like, we go over all the
safety things for our students,the the etiquette to know while
you're on the bus. And some ofour work programs, too, within
(04:33):
the school system, will practicethis on a daily basis with our
students.
Patrick Cadigan (04:40):
And if we were to throw out a tip for families
who were working towards thislike, let's say that a family
does not know if their schoolsystem provides travel training.
Who? Who could you Who do youthink it would be a good idea to
reach out to?
Meghan Smallwood (04:53):
Well I know for us, our transition
specialists in the schools areinvolved with it, as well as
our. Teachers who participate inthe work program. So they would
be a good starting point, youknow, to talk about whether it's
happening in school, and if theywere interested in pursuing it
outside of school, they would beable to give the contact
information for the people inour area that are in charge of
(05:16):
the RTA.
Patrick Cadigan (05:17):
One other question that comes to mind for
me is protocol. You're out inthe community, you are out in
public. Do you think that thereare rules for riding a bus? And
if so, what would they be?
Meghan Smallwood (05:29):
Yeah and that's something like I said,
our work program, and when we dotravel training, we really go
over the etiquette with ourstudents, like we want them to
be ready when they get on thebus, because we know the hustle
and bustle and they're not theonly ones taking the bus, so
they have to, you know, movealong quickly. They have to have
their ID ready to show when theyboard and sit, and they need to
(05:50):
know that they have to haveheadphones in when they're
listening to music. They have tostay seated. They can't be
eating or drinking or cursing orwhatever it may be on the bus.
So those soft skills, just toknow how to act on a bus, or one
of the things that we go overand that they'll practice in
some of these work programs aswell. The other thing we help
them with is, in our area,students can get a free RTA card
(06:15):
to use. So that's something thatwe really push so that they have
the access and the, you know,the motivation. Okay, I've got
this card. Maybe my friends andI can go to the mall and
practice it this weekend. So wereally want them to use it and
follow through, you know, soit's in all aspects of their
life.
Patrick Cadigan (06:31):
But and now that I'm thinking about it,
though that is not schoolspecific, though that is like,
which is to say that this is nottransportation that the school
system provides this, this, thiscard to use. This is actually
outside of that department oftransportation, correct?
Meghan Smallwood (06:49):
Yeah. So, this is something the school can help
the student get, but they cancarry on after they leave us, or
over the summer, on theweekends. And, you know, we go
over with them how important itis to keep a hold of it, because
I've had students who will go totravel training again. And I'm
like, Okay, make sure you bringyour RTA card back. And they're
like, I don't know where itwent. So again, one of those
(07:10):
things, you know, we have tokeep track of our important
belongings, otherwise we missout.
Patrick Cadigan (07:16):
I saw something that there was a program that
was launched recently RapidRide.
Meghan Smallwood (07:23):
What was, yeah, like you mentioned, this
isn't, you know, part of ourschool system, but from the
Department of Transportation,they just are launching a new
micro transit service in acertain area of our county. And
I think we can put that in thenotes like the link so that they
can look for more information,but it's free to our students,
(07:45):
and they'll give them moreaccess to different places and
services, especially forhealthcare. They can book these
rides on the phone or on theirapp, and it'll help them just
give them more access todifferent things in the
community.
Patrick Cadigan (08:02):
Know that you can always go to our show notes
and anything that we talk about,we're going to have links to
that. In fact, some of theconversations that we have been
having lately have been gettingso local, specific to us, that
we actually then created like, asecondary set of links where
we'll have, like general links,links to the things that we talk
(08:24):
about that will help people ingeneral. But then sometimes we
have to drill down even further,and we have to call out even
some of the Maryland specificlinks, because, of course,
Maryland is where we are. So Allright, now, one other question
that comes up, how, and I'mtrying to think of how to segue
into this. We have had manyconversations around DDA
(08:48):
agencies, specifically in ourarea, we have DDA, the
Department of DevelopmentalDisabilities, associate
administration, Say that fivetimes in a row, really fast. How
can they be weaved into thisconversation?
Meghan Smallwood (09:04):
Yeah, and that's something like, I know
when we've talked about DDA inthe past, we've looked at like
the the meaningful day and theday programs and the community
development services, buttransportation is another area
that it really can help with,and there are different DDA
providers that will provide thetransportation services, if you
dive into it and look, I mean,that might be one thing that
(09:25):
they do, you know, smalleragency, but it can be written
into that person centered planfor transportation. And we'll
include the link because it wasjust lengthy criteria and
eligibility and differentthings, but it can cover and one
of the biggest things I've seenis mileage reimbursement. So if
(09:47):
they are, let's say, doing selfdirected and they have a staff
person driving the individual toplaces, they can get mileage
reimbursement. So that wouldfall under transportation. It
can cover ride shares. You know,ooh. Or it can cover public
transportation if you didn'thave that free RTA card. It can
also pre cover travel trainingif you were still working
(10:08):
towards learning how to do thisindependently. So there's a
whole slew of different thingsthat it can be used for. It's
just a matter of letting yourcoordinator know that
transportation is an area thatis a need and that you want to
explore to include in the plan.
Patrick Cadigan (10:22):
Okay, so then paralleling that conversation,
because we've thrown in a DDAagency, let's talk about another
agency that so many of ourfamilies are familiar with
working with so many of ourfamilies are familiar to work
with. There we go, a VR agency.
Now in our area, this is DORS,the...
Meghan Smallwood (10:45):
Division of Rehabilitation Services.
Patrick Cadigan (10:48):
There's so many...
Meghan Smallwood (10:49):
There's another one.
Patrick Cadigan (10:50):
There's so many acronyms that we're dealing
with. It's like...
Meghan Smallwood (10:53):
Yep.
Patrick Cadigan (10:53):
...okay, is this D department? Is a
division, and what's this? Oh, Ihave to it's like, if I don't
have it directly in front of me,it's like, I forget it. So can
DORS also, do they or any VRagency, can they also...
Meghan Smallwood (11:07):
Yeah.
Patrick Cadigan (11:07):
...be part of this conversation?
Meghan Smallwood (11:08):
Yes, but I will preface it by saying they
the vision or the goal behindDORS is for employment. So if a
family or student comes andsays, I want to learn how to get
my driver's license. That is notgoing to be their sole basis or
goal for the student has to tieback to employment. So if the
student was to say, I want toget my license so I can get to
(11:31):
work, or, you know, I want totake Driver's Ed so that I can,
you know, make my way out in thecommunity, it has to tie back.
So DORS, if you have an openvocational rehabilitation or VR
case, will look at doing drivingassessment if they feel that is
what's needed, and they willhave the student evaluated to
(11:53):
determine their ability to driveit like if they would even be
eligible to go and get theirdriver's license. So that is one
thing they would do, becauseI've had students who are
interested but weren't sure ifit would be something that that
can be pursued. So then Driver'sEd is another one that they
(12:14):
could offer, and they do havedifferent tracks. And again, I
think we'll tie it back to thewebsite, because they'll give
you more lengthy informationagain. Your DORS counselor can
also give you more insight intothis, because they are the
gatekeepers for all thisinformation, but they could
potentially offer some supportfor the DORS consumers with
(12:36):
autism or for other specificdisabilities, like, you know,
deaf or hard of hearing withsome interpreting services, so
that they would offer a driver'sed course, a curriculum which is
similar to what the drivingschools use, but this is also
with some additional sessions,and also just the the instructor
will give additional supportwhile they're going through The
(12:59):
materials to understand it andpossibly repeat the quizzes and
tests as necessary.
Patrick Cadigan (13:06):
This is a conversation that came up
recently. I feel like it's comeup more than a few times, but
one of the things that I don'tthink that I really appreciated
and specific to driver being adriver, is the focus the moment
to moment, decisions that youhave to make as a driver, the
(13:27):
just not knowing what anotherdriver on the road is going to
do. It just made me realize howcomplex that some like, just
there are certain activitiesthat we do that we kind of take
for granted. But when, whenyou're thinking about it in
terms of the population that wetend to work with, or just in
(13:50):
general, or having to explain itto people, it's like, oh, this
is actually way more complicatedthan that. I was given a credit
for.
Meghan Smallwood (13:58):
Yeah and I think that's a good point. I
think that's why the drivingassessment can be very helpful,
because I think of like mysister back when they thought
about the possibility of herdriving, but they didn't know
reaction time, you know, if shewould be able to handle those
split second decisions whileyou're driving. And so she did a
(14:19):
driving assessment in New Yorkand did not pass, so it was not
a path that they pursued. Butthat's a very good point,
because you're right. It's notjust you that you have to worry
about. It's the other driversand reacting to those decisions.
So that's definitely somethingthat's taken into consideration
before going down that route.
Again, like adaptive drivingtoo, something else that can be
covered. Because I know we havesome of our students who are in
(14:41):
wheelchair. Are in wheelchairsor may have some other physical
disabilities, and adaptiveequipment may be incorporated.
So that's something thattraining can be provided on, and
also support in getting thatadapted equipment figured out
and situated that can be offeredor considered.
Patrick Cadigan (14:59):
And there's. A couple of resources that we have
that are specific to our area.
So again, we will include thosein the show notes.
Meghan Smallwood (15:08):
Yeah, and you know, in terms of taking the
test of the actual MVA, thereare accommodations that can be
provided. If you are to bringyour copy of the IEP along, you
might you're going to have tocall the MVA office here to ask
about what is allowed, notallowed, and set up a time for
it. But I know from otherstudents in the past, like
(15:29):
they've they could have thequestions read to them. They
could have a little extra time.
There's just different thingsthat could be implemented. So
don't rule it out, especially ifyour student is nervous about
having to meet that certain,like, you know, criteria, and
they're worried that they'regoing to need something extra,
Patrick Cadigan (15:48):
Yeah, and my advice to families is, do not be
shy about reaching out to yourlocal, your local, like, vehicle
place.
Meghan Smallwood (15:59):
Yeah, I know, it's not always called the MVA.
Patrick Cadigan (16:01):
No.
Meghan Smallwood (16:01):
In New York, it was the DMV.
Patrick Cadigan (16:03):
Yeah, yeah, so, but don't, don't hesitate,
because you You never know whatthey might be able to provide.
There was a student that I wasworking with quite recently
that, again, this was aconversation that I was having
with the families, and thisparticular family had an
advocate, and the advocate hadbrought up that they had done
some research, and there weresome things that were available
(16:26):
for to assist local drivers. AndI was like, writing this down
furiously as they were talkingabout it. And I was like, wow,
that's helpful, because I canthrow that out to other families
as well.
Meghan Smallwood (16:40):
Yeah. And also, to mention, you know, at
school specific or areaspecific, but we've had
Transition Specialists andteachers bring in people from
the MBA so that the students canactually take the written test
in school, you know, and youtackle a whole group of students
at one time, and that's whenaccommodations also were put in
place. So there are differentways of doing it.
Patrick Cadigan (17:03):
Very cool. And one thing now, before we hit the
record button, you you weretalking about something, I want
you to make sure to throw it outyou. And now, again, this is
specific to Maryland, but youhad mentioned the Eric's ID law.
Do you want to talk about whatthat is?
Meghan Smallwood (17:18):
Yeah, and that, I think, was just released
this week, and the law won't beimplemented till October, 1 of
this year, but it is for hiddendisabilities to be marked on the
driver's license and state IDsas well, just to make more
awareness with law enforcementand emergency personnel for
safety and just understandingDuring interactions with them. I
(17:41):
know training is done with thosedifferent departments and
different places, but some ofthe key aspects for this new law
is that those who may have a nonapparent disability like autism
or deafness or even ADHD, theycan indicate on there to make
others aware. And it's just asimple little butterfly symbol
(18:02):
to be placed on the ID with thewords hidden disability to let
them know that disability is notimmediately obvious. Because I
think that's a big thing thathappens in our community. You
know, if you don't see thatapparent disability, you just
assume they're not listening, orthey don't understand right
away. So it's just aimed forthose individuals with non
apparent disabilities to betreated with more understanding
(18:24):
and respect, especially duringthose high stress interactions
with authorities.
Patrick Cadigan (18:29):
I want to segue a little bit because I know that
this is definitely one of thoseconversations where you can
easily go all over the place,but in past conversations that
we have had one of the thingsthat we have covered is our, not
our, but we have covered lists,lists, yeah, list funding. Do
(18:50):
you want to do a quick recap ofwhat LISS is and then how, how
it pertains to our discussion oftransportation and travel
training, yeah?
Meghan Smallwood (19:00):
And LISS stands for Low Intensity Support
Services, and it's connected,but it's separate from DDA. So
basically, you don't have tohave a DDA application on file,
although, you know, we arealways going to promote that for
our area, like because you'regoing to need that long term.
But if your child is below 14,or you just haven't gotten
around to it, you can apply forthe list funding separate from
(19:24):
that, and it's two lotteries ayear, one in the spring, one in
the fall, that the money isawarded, and it's up to $2,000
it's a simple application thatwe can include the link if
you're interested in doing it. Iknow families that do it
regularly and are often awardedit. But one thing I didn't
realize is, as I was goingthrough it, transportation
(19:46):
services can be included forlist funding. So that would mean
travel services to assist thisapplicant to access and navigate
their community. It can't bepaid for to the parent or the
legally fine. Financiallyresponsible person for the
applicant, but it can be usedfor other purposes, such as if
(20:06):
you were to hire a person toprovide transportation for them,
or if they were going to use theMetro access depending on where
they live, or Ubers or taxivouchers or whatever, and
they're not receiving DDAfunding yet, or anything to do
with DORS. So it's just anotheroption to consider when I
thought it was just cool tomention. And then the other
(20:26):
thing like, and I know, like yousaid, this is just a collection
of different things that fallunder transportation, but I just
wanted to throw out there too,for those who might not have
thought about it, approachingthe MVA about a handicap
parking. You know, I think a lotof times we think of the elderly
when it comes to handicap orsomeone in a wheelchair, but I
(20:47):
would suggest going on to theMVA and just looking at what all
the requirements or criteria isfor a special parking placard or
registration plate, because I'vehad families with an individual
with a disability that were ableto to obtain one, and it just
made things easier when they'regoing out in the community with
(21:09):
them. So I won't go into all thenitty gritty about it, but just
something to explore if you knowgoing into the community can be
a struggle, and it's justanother way to make it a little
easier. If you have familymember or someone who's going to
be working with your individualtaking them, it would just make
thing, you know, one extra toolin the tool belt to make that
(21:31):
easier for everybody.
Patrick Cadigan (21:33):
Very cool.
Well, we've, we've covered alot, um, and again, this is kind
of one of those conversationswhere I feel like we could
probably keep going and goingand going.
Meghan Smallwood (21:43):
Yeah, and it's something we can always like
come back and revisit, and maybebring someone from one of our
agencies that deals with this totalk a little more specifically
about our area and what'soffered.
Patrick Cadigan (21:54):
That would be very cool. Well, good deal. All
right then. Well, I think thethat is a good place to do a
hard stop, and we'll catch upwith everybody very soon.
You'll find all the links to theinformation from our
conversations in our show notes.
We would love for theinformation from this and all
(22:17):
our other discussions to reachas many families as possible,
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(22:40):
often.
Meghan Smallwood (22:43):
Please also check out our YouTube channel.
Now that we've done some of theleg work for you by curating
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subscribe there as well. Andthen finally, check out our
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resources around the transitionprocess. So open your web
(23:07):
browser of choice and surf towww.postsecondarytransition.com
and we thank you so much for thetime you spent with us, and look
forward to talking again soon.
Welcome. This is the Post Secondary Transition
(00:02):
podcast, where we haveconversations around the ins and
outs and everything in betweenof the transition process for
families of students withdisabilities. I'm one of the
hosts. My name is PatrickCadigan, and I am a public
school transition coordinator.
As always, I have a co host, andwho would that be?
Meghan Smallwood (00:18):
I am Meghan Smallwood, and I am also a
public school transitioncoordinator.
Patrick Cadigan (00:22):
All right, so here we are. We are back once
again, and this time we wantedto drill down, and we wanted to
talk about something, an issuethat comes up all of the time,
but is a little tricky to talkabout, and that is
transportation and traveltraining, and in some of our
(00:44):
previous discussions with someof our guests, transportation
has come up quite a bit, and sowe definitely know that it's one
of those hot topics because itit causes issues and limitations
for our crew as They attempt toenter that that post secondary
world and be as independent aspossible. Now we've had students
(01:06):
who have successfully appliedand been offered a job, but
they've struggled to figure outhow to get there. In fact, it is
one of the things that Ispecifically am going through
right now with one of my one ofmy students and and it, it can
be very tricky. And parents,they are frustrated to get
(01:26):
access to the community withoutconstantly having to drive them.
And so the big question is, is,what are the options that they
have now? This is a trickyconversation to have, because so
many areas are so verydifferent. So obviously, the
conversation that we're about tohave is going to be area
(01:47):
specific to us. However. We'rehoping that just by having the
conversation that families whoare going through this will
start to kind of know thequestions to ask, and we will be
sharing out some resources. ButI mean, again, they are probably
(02:07):
going to be pretty specific toour area. We did want to have a
general conversation abouttransportation and travel
training. So even trying to talkabout this, Meghan, even just
the introduction is giving me ismaking me tense.
Meghan Smallwood (02:19):
Oh, I know it.
And unfortunately, in our area,there's not many options, and
that's what we always hear, likewe have these great
opportunities, but how do we getthere? And like Patrick said,
you know, we know it'sdifferent, depending on where
you live, but hopefully this cantrigger some thoughts and
conversations about what optionsthere could be, or help you to
explore what the possibilitycould look like. So we're going
(02:39):
to just chat a little bit aboutwhat can be accessed. And it is
a collection of ideas, and weknow it kind of crosses the
range of all our students. Soyeah, we'll just, we'll just
dive right in.
Patrick Cadigan (02:57):
One of the first questions that I think
that where we should open thisup is, do school systems provide
travel training?
Meghan Smallwood (03:06):
Yeah, again, that's kind of like specific to
where you live, but I know inour county, that is something
that we we've tried to do everyyear, and we're trying to do it
on a greater scale. And I knowsome of the organizations, the
state funded organizations inour area have done it in the
past, and with budget cuts andfunding and whatnot, it's kind
(03:26):
of lessened, but I think they'retrying to get back to it anyway.
From a school point of view, wedefinitely work on doing it. We
will have people from ourtransit come in to discuss the
benefits of what publictransportation can be for them.
You know, we share with thembecause, of course, some of our
students are like, I'll justcall an Uber, or I'll just call
(03:47):
Lyft. Well, this is a lot lessexpensive than driving or taking
one of those, so it's a greatoption. You can get to a lot of
the places you'd like, in thecommunity, or to your job. You
know, you can visit people. It'sgood for the environment. It
helps promote your independence.
And now, with the way we've gonewith technology, it's easier
because there's an app in ourarea that you can track it in
(04:11):
real time. You know, you know,if there's anything happening
with the bus, you can actually,like, find it very easy in the
area, and when you get on thebus, like, we go over all the
safety things for our students,the the etiquette to know while
you're on the bus. And some ofour work programs, too, within
(04:33):
the school system, will practicethis on a daily basis with our
students.
Patrick Cadigan (04:40):
And if we were to throw out a tip for families
who were working towards thislike, let's say that a family
does not know if their schoolsystem provides travel training.
Who? Who could you Who do youthink it would be a good idea to
reach out to?
Meghan Smallwood (04:53):
Well I know for us, our transition
specialists in the schools areinvolved with it, as well as
our. Teachers who participate inthe work program. So they would
be a good starting point, youknow, to talk about whether it's
happening in school, and if theywere interested in pursuing it
outside of school, they would beable to give the contact
information for the people inour area that are in charge of
(05:16):
the RTA.
Patrick Cadigan (05:17):
One other question that comes to mind for
me is protocol. You're out inthe community, you are out in
public. Do you think that thereare rules for riding a bus? And
if so, what would they be?
Meghan Smallwood (05:29):
Yeah and that's something like I said,
our work program, and when we dotravel training, we really go
over the etiquette with ourstudents, like we want them to
be ready when they get on thebus, because we know the hustle
and bustle and they're not theonly ones taking the bus, so
they have to, you know, movealong quickly. They have to have
their ID ready to show when theyboard and sit, and they need to
(05:50):
know that they have to haveheadphones in when they're
listening to music. They have tostay seated. They can't be
eating or drinking or cursing orwhatever it may be on the bus.
So those soft skills, just toknow how to act on a bus, or one
of the things that we go overand that they'll practice in
some of these work programs aswell. The other thing we help
them with is, in our area,students can get a free RTA card
(06:15):
to use. So that's something thatwe really push so that they have
the access and the, you know,the motivation. Okay, I've got
this card. Maybe my friends andI can go to the mall and
practice it this weekend. So wereally want them to use it and
follow through, you know, soit's in all aspects of their
life.
Patrick Cadigan (06:31):
But and now that I'm thinking about it,
though that is not schoolspecific, though that is like,
which is to say that this is nottransportation that the school
system provides this, this, thiscard to use. This is actually
outside of that department oftransportation, correct?
Meghan Smallwood (06:49):
Yeah. So, this is something the school can help
the student get, but they cancarry on after they leave us, or
over the summer, on theweekends. And, you know, we go
over with them how important itis to keep a hold of it, because
I've had students who will go totravel training again. And I'm
like, Okay, make sure you bringyour RTA card back. And they're
like, I don't know where itwent. So again, one of those
(07:10):
things, you know, we have tokeep track of our important
belongings, otherwise we missout.
Patrick Cadigan (07:16):
I saw something that there was a program that
was launched recently RapidRide.
Meghan Smallwood (07:23):
What was, yeah, like you mentioned, this
isn't, you know, part of ourschool system, but from the
Department of Transportation,they just are launching a new
micro transit service in acertain area of our county. And
I think we can put that in thenotes like the link so that they
can look for more information,but it's free to our students,
(07:45):
and they'll give them moreaccess to different places and
services, especially forhealthcare. They can book these
rides on the phone or on theirapp, and it'll help them just
give them more access todifferent things in the
community.
Patrick Cadigan (08:02):
Know that you can always go to our show notes
and anything that we talk about,we're going to have links to
that. In fact, some of theconversations that we have been
having lately have been gettingso local, specific to us, that
we actually then created like, asecondary set of links where
we'll have, like general links,links to the things that we talk
(08:24):
about that will help people ingeneral. But then sometimes we
have to drill down even further,and we have to call out even
some of the Maryland specificlinks, because, of course,
Maryland is where we are. So Allright, now, one other question
that comes up, how, and I'mtrying to think of how to segue
into this. We have had manyconversations around DDA
(08:48):
agencies, specifically in ourarea, we have DDA, the
Department of DevelopmentalDisabilities, associate
administration, Say that fivetimes in a row, really fast. How
can they be weaved into thisconversation?
Meghan Smallwood (09:04):
Yeah, and that's something like, I know
when we've talked about DDA inthe past, we've looked at like
the the meaningful day and theday programs and the community
development services, buttransportation is another area
that it really can help with,and there are different DDA
providers that will provide thetransportation services, if you
dive into it and look, I mean,that might be one thing that
(09:25):
they do, you know, smalleragency, but it can be written
into that person centered planfor transportation. And we'll
include the link because it wasjust lengthy criteria and
eligibility and differentthings, but it can cover and one
of the biggest things I've seenis mileage reimbursement. So if
(09:47):
they are, let's say, doing selfdirected and they have a staff
person driving the individual toplaces, they can get mileage
reimbursement. So that wouldfall under transportation. It
can cover ride shares. You know,ooh. Or it can cover public
transportation if you didn'thave that free RTA card. It can
also pre cover travel trainingif you were still working
(10:08):
towards learning how to do thisindependently. So there's a
whole slew of different thingsthat it can be used for. It's
just a matter of letting yourcoordinator know that
transportation is an area thatis a need and that you want to
explore to include in the plan.
Patrick Cadigan (10:22):
Okay, so then paralleling that conversation,
because we've thrown in a DDAagency, let's talk about another
agency that so many of ourfamilies are familiar with
working with so many of ourfamilies are familiar to work
with. There we go, a VR agency.
Now in our area, this is DORS,the...
Meghan Smallwood (10:45):
Division of Rehabilitation Services.
Patrick Cadigan (10:48):
There's so many...
Meghan Smallwood (10:49):
There's another one.
Patrick Cadigan (10:50):
There's so many acronyms that we're dealing
with. It's like...
Meghan Smallwood (10:53):
Yep.
Patrick Cadigan (10:53):
...okay, is this D department? Is a
division, and what's this? Oh, Ihave to it's like, if I don't
have it directly in front of me,it's like, I forget it. So can
DORS also, do they or any VRagency, can they also...
Meghan Smallwood (11:07):
Yeah.
Patrick Cadigan (11:07):
...be part of this conversation?
Meghan Smallwood (11:08):
Yes, but I will preface it by saying they
the vision or the goal behindDORS is for employment. So if a
family or student comes andsays, I want to learn how to get
my driver's license. That is notgoing to be their sole basis or
goal for the student has to tieback to employment. So if the
student was to say, I want toget my license so I can get to
(11:31):
work, or, you know, I want totake Driver's Ed so that I can,
you know, make my way out in thecommunity, it has to tie back.
So DORS, if you have an openvocational rehabilitation or VR
case, will look at doing drivingassessment if they feel that is
what's needed, and they willhave the student evaluated to
(11:53):
determine their ability to driveit like if they would even be
eligible to go and get theirdriver's license. So that is one
thing they would do, becauseI've had students who are
interested but weren't sure ifit would be something that that
can be pursued. So then Driver'sEd is another one that they
(12:14):
could offer, and they do havedifferent tracks. And again, I
think we'll tie it back to thewebsite, because they'll give
you more lengthy informationagain. Your DORS counselor can
also give you more insight intothis, because they are the
gatekeepers for all thisinformation, but they could
potentially offer some supportfor the DORS consumers with
(12:36):
autism or for other specificdisabilities, like, you know,
deaf or hard of hearing withsome interpreting services, so
that they would offer a driver'sed course, a curriculum which is
similar to what the drivingschools use, but this is also
with some additional sessions,and also just the the instructor
will give additional supportwhile they're going through The
(12:59):
materials to understand it andpossibly repeat the quizzes and
tests as necessary.
Patrick Cadigan (13:06):
This is a conversation that came up
recently. I feel like it's comeup more than a few times, but
one of the things that I don'tthink that I really appreciated
and specific to driver being adriver, is the focus the moment
to moment, decisions that youhave to make as a driver, the
(13:27):
just not knowing what anotherdriver on the road is going to
do. It just made me realize howcomplex that some like, just
there are certain activitiesthat we do that we kind of take
for granted. But when, whenyou're thinking about it in
terms of the population that wetend to work with, or just in
(13:50):
general, or having to explain itto people, it's like, oh, this
is actually way more complicatedthan that. I was given a credit
for.
Meghan Smallwood (13:58):
Yeah and I think that's a good point. I
think that's why the drivingassessment can be very helpful,
because I think of like mysister back when they thought
about the possibility of herdriving, but they didn't know
reaction time, you know, if shewould be able to handle those
split second decisions whileyou're driving. And so she did a
(14:19):
driving assessment in New Yorkand did not pass, so it was not
a path that they pursued. Butthat's a very good point,
because you're right. It's notjust you that you have to worry
about. It's the other driversand reacting to those decisions.
So that's definitely somethingthat's taken into consideration
before going down that route.
Again, like adaptive drivingtoo, something else that can be
covered. Because I know we havesome of our students who are in
(14:41):
wheelchair. Are in wheelchairsor may have some other physical
disabilities, and adaptiveequipment may be incorporated.
So that's something thattraining can be provided on, and
also support in getting thatadapted equipment figured out
and situated that can be offeredor considered.
Patrick Cadigan (14:59):
And there's. A couple of resources that we have
that are specific to our area.
So again, we will include thosein the show notes.
Meghan Smallwood (15:08):
Yeah, and you know, in terms of taking the
test of the actual MVA, thereare accommodations that can be
provided. If you are to bringyour copy of the IEP along, you
might you're going to have tocall the MVA office here to ask
about what is allowed, notallowed, and set up a time for
it. But I know from otherstudents in the past, like
(15:29):
they've they could have thequestions read to them. They
could have a little extra time.
There's just different thingsthat could be implemented. So
don't rule it out, especially ifyour student is nervous about
having to meet that certain,like, you know, criteria, and
they're worried that they'regoing to need something extra,
Patrick Cadigan (15:48):
Yeah, and my advice to families is, do not be
shy about reaching out to yourlocal, your local, like, vehicle
place.
Meghan Smallwood (15:59):
Yeah, I know, it's not always called the MVA.
Patrick Cadigan (16:01):
No.
Meghan Smallwood (16:01):
In New York, it was the DMV.
Patrick Cadigan (16:03):
Yeah, yeah, so, but don't, don't hesitate,
because you You never know whatthey might be able to provide.
There was a student that I wasworking with quite recently
that, again, this was aconversation that I was having
with the families, and thisparticular family had an
advocate, and the advocate hadbrought up that they had done
some research, and there weresome things that were available
(16:26):
for to assist local drivers. AndI was like, writing this down
furiously as they were talkingabout it. And I was like, wow,
that's helpful, because I canthrow that out to other families
as well.
Meghan Smallwood (16:40):
Yeah. And also, to mention, you know, at
school specific or areaspecific, but we've had
Transition Specialists andteachers bring in people from
the MBA so that the students canactually take the written test
in school, you know, and youtackle a whole group of students
at one time, and that's whenaccommodations also were put in
place. So there are differentways of doing it.
Patrick Cadigan (17:03):
Very cool. And one thing now, before we hit the
record button, you you weretalking about something, I want
you to make sure to throw it outyou. And now, again, this is
specific to Maryland, but youhad mentioned the Eric's ID law.
Do you want to talk about whatthat is?
Meghan Smallwood (17:18):
Yeah, and that, I think, was just released
this week, and the law won't beimplemented till October, 1 of
this year, but it is for hiddendisabilities to be marked on the
driver's license and state IDsas well, just to make more
awareness with law enforcementand emergency personnel for
safety and just understandingDuring interactions with them. I
(17:41):
know training is done with thosedifferent departments and
different places, but some ofthe key aspects for this new law
is that those who may have a nonapparent disability like autism
or deafness or even ADHD, theycan indicate on there to make
others aware. And it's just asimple little butterfly symbol
(18:02):
to be placed on the ID with thewords hidden disability to let
them know that disability is notimmediately obvious. Because I
think that's a big thing thathappens in our community. You
know, if you don't see thatapparent disability, you just
assume they're not listening, orthey don't understand right
away. So it's just aimed forthose individuals with non
apparent disabilities to betreated with more understanding
(18:24):
and respect, especially duringthose high stress interactions
with authorities.
Patrick Cadigan (18:29):
I want to segue a little bit because I know that
this is definitely one of thoseconversations where you can
easily go all over the place,but in past conversations that
we have had one of the thingsthat we have covered is our, not
our, but we have covered lists,lists, yeah, list funding. Do
(18:50):
you want to do a quick recap ofwhat LISS is and then how, how
it pertains to our discussion oftransportation and travel
training, yeah?
Meghan Smallwood (19:00):
And LISS stands for Low Intensity Support
Services, and it's connected,but it's separate from DDA. So
basically, you don't have tohave a DDA application on file,
although, you know, we arealways going to promote that for
our area, like because you'regoing to need that long term.
But if your child is below 14,or you just haven't gotten
around to it, you can apply forthe list funding separate from
(19:24):
that, and it's two lotteries ayear, one in the spring, one in
the fall, that the money isawarded, and it's up to $2,000
it's a simple application thatwe can include the link if
you're interested in doing it. Iknow families that do it
regularly and are often awardedit. But one thing I didn't
realize is, as I was goingthrough it, transportation
(19:46):
services can be included forlist funding. So that would mean
travel services to assist thisapplicant to access and navigate
their community. It can't bepaid for to the parent or the
legally fine. Financiallyresponsible person for the
applicant, but it can be usedfor other purposes, such as if
(20:06):
you were to hire a person toprovide transportation for them,
or if they were going to use theMetro access depending on where
they live, or Ubers or taxivouchers or whatever, and
they're not receiving DDAfunding yet, or anything to do
with DORS. So it's just anotheroption to consider when I
thought it was just cool tomention. And then the other
(20:26):
thing like, and I know, like yousaid, this is just a collection
of different things that fallunder transportation, but I just
wanted to throw out there too,for those who might not have
thought about it, approachingthe MVA about a handicap
parking. You know, I think a lotof times we think of the elderly
when it comes to handicap orsomeone in a wheelchair, but I
(20:47):
would suggest going on to theMVA and just looking at what all
the requirements or criteria isfor a special parking placard or
registration plate, because I'vehad families with an individual
with a disability that were ableto to obtain one, and it just
made things easier when they'regoing out in the community with
(21:09):
them. So I won't go into all thenitty gritty about it, but just
something to explore if you knowgoing into the community can be
a struggle, and it's justanother way to make it a little
easier. If you have familymember or someone who's going to
be working with your individualtaking them, it would just make
thing, you know, one extra toolin the tool belt to make that
(21:31):
easier for everybody.
Patrick Cadigan (21:33):
Very cool.
Well, we've, we've covered alot, um, and again, this is kind
of one of those conversationswhere I feel like we could
probably keep going and goingand going.
Meghan Smallwood (21:43):
Yeah, and it's something we can always like
come back and revisit, and maybebring someone from one of our
agencies that deals with this totalk a little more specifically
about our area and what'soffered.
Patrick Cadigan (21:54):
That would be very cool. Well, good deal. All
right then. Well, I think thethat is a good place to do a
hard stop, and we'll catch upwith everybody very soon.
You'll find all the links to theinformation from our
conversations in our show notes.
We would love for theinformation from this and all
(22:17):
our other discussions to reachas many families as possible,
and we need your help to dothat. You can find our
conversations at www, dot p2transition.com, like, follow and
share out the podcast. Ourconversations are posted to all
the major platforms, includingApple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube
music, and that's just naming afew so please share and share
(22:40):
often.
Meghan Smallwood (22:43):
Please also check out our YouTube channel.
Now that we've done some of theleg work for you by curating
videos of topics that revolvearound transition, we have
playlists for guardianship,alternatives to guardianship
ABLE accounts, and there's moreto come. So please be sure to
subscribe there as well. Andthen finally, check out our
website, which is full ofinformation and links to
resources around the transitionprocess. So open your web
(23:07):
browser of choice and surf towww.postsecondarytransition.com
and we thank you so much for thetime you spent with us, and look
forward to talking again soon.
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