September 15, 2025 • 13 mins
Hosts Meghan (Smallwood) and Patrick (Cadigan) discuss the challenges families may face when their children with disabilities transition out of school before turning 21. They highlight the importance of planning during the "gap year" and exploring alternative resources for funding support, such as VR (Vocational Rehabilitation) agencies. They emphasize the necessity for families to be proactive and have contingency plans due to funding uncertainties and potential delays in DD approval. Join the conversation!
Episode Keywords:
Post Secondary Transition, families, students with disabilities, gap year, DDA funding, Developmental Disabilities Administration, Division of Rehabilitation Services, Project SEARCH, job support, day programming, volunteer opportunities, career path, funding cuts, transition coordinators, community engagement
Episode Links:
Project Search (site)
DD locator (site)
VR locator (site)
Developmental Disabilities Agencies (page)
Vocational Rehabilitative Agency (page)
Maryland (specific) Links/Supports:
Project Search- Howard County (page)
The ARC of Howard County (site)
To download a copy of a transcript for this episode or any of our previous conversations, click here.
Also visit our Podcast webpage to find links to all of our other discussions; go to www.p2transition.com.
Additional information about post-secondary transition can be found at our website.
The Post-Secondary Transition Podcast Facebook page.
Visit our YouTube Channel to find additional video resources.
Intro/Outro music by AudioCoffee from Pixabay.
Transition music by Joseph McDade from Transistor.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Meghan Smallwood (00:00):
Okay, well, welcome back to the
Post-Secondary Transitionpodcast, where we have
conversations around the ins andouts and everything in between
of the transition process forfamilies of students with
disabilities. I'm one of thehosts. My name is Meghan
Smallwood.
Patrick Cadigan (00:15):
And my name is Patrick Cadigan, and we're both
public school transitioncoordinators. So here we are
moving into the next topic ofdiscussion. And again, this is
one of those that having a quickdiscussion offline. Meghan, what
did you want to share with thefamilies today?
Meghan Smallwood (00:32):
It's funny whenever we sit down and we're
like, Okay, what should we talkabout? There's usually a theme
that I've seen in the lastcouple of weeks prior, and it
sticks out in my mind. And oneof the themes that you know was
coming up a lot this past weekwas the conversation with
families about that gap year,and that gap year I'm referring
(00:54):
to might be when your studentleaves school and they are not
21 yet, and DDA services willnot kick in. Now, this isn't
always the case, because we knowthat students can stay in the
school system on theircertificate track until they're
21 and for our students, who areworking towards a diploma and
they are still, you know, withinthat range of receiving credits
(01:16):
up until 21 can as well. Butsometimes, for whatever reason,
could be parent student choicecould be that they finished the
credits and they don't haveanything left to do. It could
just be whatever circumstancethey find themselves done with
school. There's no DDA fundingyet. And when I say DDA funding,
you know that's thatDevelopmental Disabilities
(01:37):
Administration with the statelong term funding to help with
any kind of job support, dayprogramming, any any long life
support after you leave thatsecondary world of school. And
it's scary, because I think, youknow, they hear so much about
how important it is, and nowthey've got this time. And what
do they do at this time? Theydon't have school anymore, they
(01:58):
don't have a full day. Andthat's when we really tell
parents that they're going tohave to plan and, you know, rely
other services and otherresources around such as the
Division of RehabilitationServices or DORS, which can
still provide the funding forthem. And DORS might be able to
offer longer amounts of supportthan, you know, just a work
(02:21):
based learning experience orsome kind of short internship,
but a DORS counter can give youmore information on that, but
it's just something to keep inthe back of your mind. Have you
encountered that at all with anyof your students, Patrick?
Patrick Cadigan (02:35):
You know, it's funny, because as I'm sitting
here listening to you talk, I'mlike, again, I find myself in
that situation where I am thesurrogate for the family,
because, to be honest, knowwhere I'm at in my situation at
my school, I am now at one ofthe newest schools in the
(02:55):
county, and this is actually thefirst year that we are going to
have graduating seniors. Andwhen I say graduating seniors,
like diploma-bound graduatingseniors, so with my certificate,
track friends, or, in otherwords, my friends who are not
going to graduate with adiploma, but will graduate with
(03:18):
a certificate of completion, I'mnot there yet. So, you know, I
am still in that place where Iam pleading with my families to
fill out their DDA applicationsand following up with them. One
of the things that I foundinteresting this year was I have
a new student who was coming tous from a different location,
(03:41):
and there was a whole processaround that that I'm
discovering. So again, gettingback to your topic, when it
comes to the gap year, I mustconfess, I am all ears, because
this is a new thing for me.
Meghan Smallwood (03:57):
The worst is when I think it sneaks up on the
team. And, you know, it's hard,because I like to back map, but
sometimes you get a situationwhere, like you mentioned, they
might be coming from even adifferent county or different
state, and when you're lookingat the requirements for the
Maryland diploma, you're like,oh, this doesn't align. And all
(04:17):
of a sudden, we're out of time,or they're almost one-on-one
credit away, and you know, it'sthere's still going to be time
after but the other situationthat I've seen it happen a few
times now is with our ProjectSEARCH students, where we've had
some diploma students who havedone it for their last year in
the school system. And then oncethey complete project search,
(04:39):
it's that exit year. So you'redone with school and our diploma
students are usually 18 or 19.
Patrick Cadigan (04:46):
Now, very quickly, before we dive too deep
into that, for new listeners orpeople who don't know what we're
talking about, do you want togive a brief overview of what
Project SEARCH is?
Meghan Smallwood (04:57):
Yeah, and Project Search, I know is, is
nationwide. But within ourschool system, we have a
partnership with the HowardCounty government, where we work
in the county, obviously ourschool system, the arc in our
county, and then some otherorganizations that we work
closely with, like the hospital,like the government buildings.
(05:17):
And so what happens is we canhave up to 12 students who have
shown independent work skills,can work longer amounts of time,
have gone through an interviewprocess for the role, and they
participate in this program forthe year, where they have three
different internships atdifferent role, different jobs,
trying out different roles, andthey are mentored by someone
(05:40):
from the office that they'reworking in. So it's a real life
work scenario. You know, theystill have a little classroom
component where they're goingover job skills and work
readiness and those kinds ofthings, and the goal is for them
to leave with employment.
Patrick Cadigan (05:55):
In discussion of the gap year. So then, how
does this affect those studentslike the situations you're
saying?
Meghan Smallwood (06:03):
There's a couple situations that I've seen
where the student whoparticipated in the program,
because it can be a studentreceiving a certificate or
diploma, students who arereceiving a diploma are exiting,
but they're not 21 and in orderto participate in our Project
SEARCH program, they have to beDORS and DDA eligible, so they
(06:24):
have that DDA funding. However,they cannot access that DDA
funding once they leave us yet,because they still have time.
And you know, it worries me,because we do such a good job of
working with the family incollaboration with their DDA
coordinator to make sure thingsare moving forward in that last
year, and then suddenly, theparent is on their own doing
(06:47):
this nevertheless, and also theyhave a year or two to figure out
what to happen before that. I'vealso had students where the
family it was their choice thateven though the student could
remain in the school until 21they said, No, he he's done. It
was eight, he was 18, and theysaid, We want him to try other
things. So they took it uponthemselves to organize volunteer
(07:09):
opportunities, and he's beendoing well, but his DDA funding,
you know, came later, so theywere relying on other resources
and just being the advocate andfinding these volunteer
opportunities for the student.
And actually, one othersituation I can think of was a
former student who finished hercredits for diploma over the
summer, and then they realizedshe didn't have to return for,
(07:31):
you know, the next school year.
And again, she has one more yearbefore she leaves, and DDA
funding will will come intoplay. So it's just important to
realize what the how everythinglines up. It's great that they
can finish and get their diplomabefore 21 you know, they have
the time, but if they're donebeforehand, wonderful. But you
(07:52):
just have to account if they aregoing to rely on that DDA
funding, that you're accessingother resources and just
exploring what they can be doingto fill their day. So you know,
they're not just sitting aroundwaiting for the time to come. We
want them to be an active andengaging part of the community.
So just keep that in mind.
Patrick Cadigan (08:11):
It sounds like what's happening is, is that
you're having these experiences.
You're talking to thesefamilies, where these gaps do
happen. Is there anything thatthe families can do when they
find themselves in that gapsituation to kind of, you know,
carry them through, yeah.
Meghan Smallwood (08:31):
I mean, besides accessing doors or, you
know, talking to the DORScounselor about what what's
going on, I think it's justgetting out and making
connections. You know, again, wealways talk about referring to
what the student is interestedin in terms of a career, and
what a career path could looklike for them. And I think it's,
it's good to just continue tofocus on that, as you would have
(08:51):
anyway, and see what kind ofexperiences could be out there
that align with it. If they'reinterested in animals, have them
go volunteer at the the HumaneSociety, you know, if they're
interested in like physicaltherapy or working with a
doctor's office, see if you cantalk to your your low your
pediatrician or PCP about them,volunteering and helping in the
office. Or if you know anyonewithin your family that works in
(09:15):
that business you know, justsee, see who you can connect
with. Don't be afraid to talk toothers and try to come up with
some out of the box thinkingideas. It doesn't have to be
okay. We're just going to gofind a job, and you know, I'll
be your support system untilthen, because we know
realistically, that can alwayshappen. And I think that is a
worry too, because parents stillhave to go out and work, but
(09:37):
they need something for thechild to be doing or working
with somebody.
Patrick Cadigan (09:42):
So it's funny that, as I'm hearing you talk
like that's one of the thingsthat kind of that is, what I was
hearing is, is that this is workthat the family is going to need
to do, because until thatfunding gets kicked in, you
know, yeah, it's almost likethey're going to be, it's going
to be incumbent. On them to fillthat gap in order to have things
(10:04):
to do right.
Meghan Smallwood (10:05):
And it does bring it back to what I know you
and I were having conversationwith the parent earlier this
week too, about how even thoughthey are supposed to be
receiving DDA funding becausetheir child exited the school
system and is 21 and they'rethey're all set up, they have
not officially been approved,and so they're in a gap
timeframe, maybe not a year,hopefully not a year, but
(10:27):
they're still in a timeframewhere they're waiting for
funding to happen, and it'sfalling on the parent to figure
out how to handle that and whatto do. So I guess it's almost
like, you know, you got plan Aand you got a plan for Plan B
and Plan C. And I think it'sjust so important that we get
the word out to make familiesaware of this. Because I think
the worst thing is that you'rejust kind of, you know, taken
(10:50):
aback and shocked by, well,nobody told me this, like I want
people to know, be prepared.
Patrick Cadigan (10:58):
And the other thing is, is that one of the
frustrating things about thereality of now is that there has
been so much discussion and somuch rhetoric around funding for
people with disabilities, and,yeah, not really knowing exactly
(11:20):
what's going to happen. Or,like, of course, you know, we've
heard about all the cuts, we'veheard about a lot of stuff, but
what we don't know is how thatwill have a practical, real
world impact. I know there's alot of discussion around it.
There's a lot of fear. And, youknow, again, when people ask me,
ask us about it, yeah, I justsay, frankly, I don't know, and
(11:46):
yeah, I feel like we're all in aholding pattern.
Meghan Smallwood (11:49):
Yeah. I always just say, as of this moment in
time, I have not heard of anychanges, right? Soon as I do, I
will spread the word right, dayby day. That's all we can do.
Patrick Cadigan (12:02):
And I'm not trying to end the conversation
on a downer. I'm really not...
Meghan Smallwood (12:07):
I know.
Patrick Cadigan (12:07):
...but it is, it is a good place to stop. And
we do have more topics ofdiscussion that will be coming
up. But again, this was one ofthose that, as we were talking
about it offline, it was like,You know what? It might be a
good idea to to have a bit of adiscussion about this. So...
Meghan Smallwood (12:24):
Absolutely.
Patrick Cadigan (12:25):
...all right, well, then we will sign off on
this discussion, but we willdefinitely have more to come.
Meghan Smallwood (12:40):
So don't forget that you can find our
discussions everywhere. Apple,Spotify, YouTube, music and
others. So hit that followbutton and you won't miss out,
please. If you haven't alreadydone so, consider leaving a
review, preferably a five starone. It helps you spread the
word and helps us, because weknow you're listening. Links to
the information from ourconversations are always in our
(13:02):
show notes. Our YouTube channelcontains curated videos that
revolve around transition,including playlists for
guardianship, alternatives toguardianship ABLE accounts and
more to come. And then finally,check out our website,
www.postsecondarytransition.comfull of information and links to
more resources. Thanks again. Somuch for your time spent with
(13:25):
us, and we look forward totalking again with you soon.
Okay, well, welcome back to the
Post-Secondary Transitionpodcast, where we have
conversations around the ins andouts and everything in between
of the transition process forfamilies of students with
disabilities. I'm one of thehosts. My name is Meghan
Smallwood.
Patrick Cadigan (00:15):
And my name is Patrick Cadigan, and we're both
public school transitioncoordinators. So here we are
moving into the next topic ofdiscussion. And again, this is
one of those that having a quickdiscussion offline. Meghan, what
did you want to share with thefamilies today?
Meghan Smallwood (00:32):
It's funny whenever we sit down and we're
like, Okay, what should we talkabout? There's usually a theme
that I've seen in the lastcouple of weeks prior, and it
sticks out in my mind. And oneof the themes that you know was
coming up a lot this past weekwas the conversation with
families about that gap year,and that gap year I'm referring
(00:54):
to might be when your studentleaves school and they are not
21 yet, and DDA services willnot kick in. Now, this isn't
always the case, because we knowthat students can stay in the
school system on theircertificate track until they're
21 and for our students, who areworking towards a diploma and
they are still, you know, withinthat range of receiving credits
(01:16):
up until 21 can as well. Butsometimes, for whatever reason,
could be parent student choicecould be that they finished the
credits and they don't haveanything left to do. It could
just be whatever circumstancethey find themselves done with
school. There's no DDA fundingyet. And when I say DDA funding,
you know that's thatDevelopmental Disabilities
(01:37):
Administration with the statelong term funding to help with
any kind of job support, dayprogramming, any any long life
support after you leave thatsecondary world of school. And
it's scary, because I think, youknow, they hear so much about
how important it is, and nowthey've got this time. And what
do they do at this time? Theydon't have school anymore, they
(01:58):
don't have a full day. Andthat's when we really tell
parents that they're going tohave to plan and, you know, rely
other services and otherresources around such as the
Division of RehabilitationServices or DORS, which can
still provide the funding forthem. And DORS might be able to
offer longer amounts of supportthan, you know, just a work
(02:21):
based learning experience orsome kind of short internship,
but a DORS counter can give youmore information on that, but
it's just something to keep inthe back of your mind. Have you
encountered that at all with anyof your students, Patrick?
Patrick Cadigan (02:35):
You know, it's funny, because as I'm sitting
here listening to you talk, I'mlike, again, I find myself in
that situation where I am thesurrogate for the family,
because, to be honest, knowwhere I'm at in my situation at
my school, I am now at one ofthe newest schools in the
(02:55):
county, and this is actually thefirst year that we are going to
have graduating seniors. Andwhen I say graduating seniors,
like diploma-bound graduatingseniors, so with my certificate,
track friends, or, in otherwords, my friends who are not
going to graduate with adiploma, but will graduate with
(03:18):
a certificate of completion, I'mnot there yet. So, you know, I
am still in that place where Iam pleading with my families to
fill out their DDA applicationsand following up with them. One
of the things that I foundinteresting this year was I have
a new student who was coming tous from a different location,
(03:41):
and there was a whole processaround that that I'm
discovering. So again, gettingback to your topic, when it
comes to the gap year, I mustconfess, I am all ears, because
this is a new thing for me.
Meghan Smallwood (03:57):
The worst is when I think it sneaks up on the
team. And, you know, it's hard,because I like to back map, but
sometimes you get a situationwhere, like you mentioned, they
might be coming from even adifferent county or different
state, and when you're lookingat the requirements for the
Maryland diploma, you're like,oh, this doesn't align. And all
(04:17):
of a sudden, we're out of time,or they're almost one-on-one
credit away, and you know, it'sthere's still going to be time
after but the other situationthat I've seen it happen a few
times now is with our ProjectSEARCH students, where we've had
some diploma students who havedone it for their last year in
the school system. And then oncethey complete project search,
(04:39):
it's that exit year. So you'redone with school and our diploma
students are usually 18 or 19.
Patrick Cadigan (04:46):
Now, very quickly, before we dive too deep
into that, for new listeners orpeople who don't know what we're
talking about, do you want togive a brief overview of what
Project SEARCH is?
Meghan Smallwood (04:57):
Yeah, and Project Search, I know is, is
nationwide. But within ourschool system, we have a
partnership with the HowardCounty government, where we work
in the county, obviously ourschool system, the arc in our
county, and then some otherorganizations that we work
closely with, like the hospital,like the government buildings.
(05:17):
And so what happens is we canhave up to 12 students who have
shown independent work skills,can work longer amounts of time,
have gone through an interviewprocess for the role, and they
participate in this program forthe year, where they have three
different internships atdifferent role, different jobs,
trying out different roles, andthey are mentored by someone
(05:40):
from the office that they'reworking in. So it's a real life
work scenario. You know, theystill have a little classroom
component where they're goingover job skills and work
readiness and those kinds ofthings, and the goal is for them
to leave with employment.
Patrick Cadigan (05:55):
In discussion of the gap year. So then, how
does this affect those studentslike the situations you're
saying?
Meghan Smallwood (06:03):
There's a couple situations that I've seen
where the student whoparticipated in the program,
because it can be a studentreceiving a certificate or
diploma, students who arereceiving a diploma are exiting,
but they're not 21 and in orderto participate in our Project
SEARCH program, they have to beDORS and DDA eligible, so they
(06:24):
have that DDA funding. However,they cannot access that DDA
funding once they leave us yet,because they still have time.
And you know, it worries me,because we do such a good job of
working with the family incollaboration with their DDA
coordinator to make sure thingsare moving forward in that last
year, and then suddenly, theparent is on their own doing
(06:47):
this nevertheless, and also theyhave a year or two to figure out
what to happen before that. I'vealso had students where the
family it was their choice thateven though the student could
remain in the school until 21they said, No, he he's done. It
was eight, he was 18, and theysaid, We want him to try other
things. So they took it uponthemselves to organize volunteer
(07:09):
opportunities, and he's beendoing well, but his DDA funding,
you know, came later, so theywere relying on other resources
and just being the advocate andfinding these volunteer
opportunities for the student.
And actually, one othersituation I can think of was a
former student who finished hercredits for diploma over the
summer, and then they realizedshe didn't have to return for,
(07:31):
you know, the next school year.
And again, she has one more yearbefore she leaves, and DDA
funding will will come intoplay. So it's just important to
realize what the how everythinglines up. It's great that they
can finish and get their diplomabefore 21 you know, they have
the time, but if they're donebeforehand, wonderful. But you
(07:52):
just have to account if they aregoing to rely on that DDA
funding, that you're accessingother resources and just
exploring what they can be doingto fill their day. So you know,
they're not just sitting aroundwaiting for the time to come. We
want them to be an active andengaging part of the community.
So just keep that in mind.
Patrick Cadigan (08:11):
It sounds like what's happening is, is that
you're having these experiences.
You're talking to thesefamilies, where these gaps do
happen. Is there anything thatthe families can do when they
find themselves in that gapsituation to kind of, you know,
carry them through, yeah.
Meghan Smallwood (08:31):
I mean, besides accessing doors or, you
know, talking to the DORScounselor about what what's
going on, I think it's justgetting out and making
connections. You know, again, wealways talk about referring to
what the student is interestedin in terms of a career, and
what a career path could looklike for them. And I think it's,
it's good to just continue tofocus on that, as you would have
(08:51):
anyway, and see what kind ofexperiences could be out there
that align with it. If they'reinterested in animals, have them
go volunteer at the the HumaneSociety, you know, if they're
interested in like physicaltherapy or working with a
doctor's office, see if you cantalk to your your low your
pediatrician or PCP about them,volunteering and helping in the
office. Or if you know anyonewithin your family that works in
(09:15):
that business you know, justsee, see who you can connect
with. Don't be afraid to talk toothers and try to come up with
some out of the box thinkingideas. It doesn't have to be
okay. We're just going to gofind a job, and you know, I'll
be your support system untilthen, because we know
realistically, that can alwayshappen. And I think that is a
worry too, because parents stillhave to go out and work, but
(09:37):
they need something for thechild to be doing or working
with somebody.
Patrick Cadigan (09:42):
So it's funny that, as I'm hearing you talk
like that's one of the thingsthat kind of that is, what I was
hearing is, is that this is workthat the family is going to need
to do, because until thatfunding gets kicked in, you
know, yeah, it's almost likethey're going to be, it's going
to be incumbent. On them to fillthat gap in order to have things
(10:04):
to do right.
Meghan Smallwood (10:05):
And it does bring it back to what I know you
and I were having conversationwith the parent earlier this
week too, about how even thoughthey are supposed to be
receiving DDA funding becausetheir child exited the school
system and is 21 and they'rethey're all set up, they have
not officially been approved,and so they're in a gap
timeframe, maybe not a year,hopefully not a year, but
(10:27):
they're still in a timeframewhere they're waiting for
funding to happen, and it'sfalling on the parent to figure
out how to handle that and whatto do. So I guess it's almost
like, you know, you got plan Aand you got a plan for Plan B
and Plan C. And I think it'sjust so important that we get
the word out to make familiesaware of this. Because I think
the worst thing is that you'rejust kind of, you know, taken
(10:50):
aback and shocked by, well,nobody told me this, like I want
people to know, be prepared.
Patrick Cadigan (10:58):
And the other thing is, is that one of the
frustrating things about thereality of now is that there has
been so much discussion and somuch rhetoric around funding for
people with disabilities, and,yeah, not really knowing exactly
(11:20):
what's going to happen. Or,like, of course, you know, we've
heard about all the cuts, we'veheard about a lot of stuff, but
what we don't know is how thatwill have a practical, real
world impact. I know there's alot of discussion around it.
There's a lot of fear. And, youknow, again, when people ask me,
ask us about it, yeah, I justsay, frankly, I don't know, and
(11:46):
yeah, I feel like we're all in aholding pattern.
Meghan Smallwood (11:49):
Yeah. I always just say, as of this moment in
time, I have not heard of anychanges, right? Soon as I do, I
will spread the word right, dayby day. That's all we can do.
Patrick Cadigan (12:02):
And I'm not trying to end the conversation
on a downer. I'm really not...
Meghan Smallwood (12:07):
I know.
Patrick Cadigan (12:07):
...but it is, it is a good place to stop. And
we do have more topics ofdiscussion that will be coming
up. But again, this was one ofthose that, as we were talking
about it offline, it was like,You know what? It might be a
good idea to to have a bit of adiscussion about this. So...
Meghan Smallwood (12:24):
Absolutely.
Patrick Cadigan (12:25):
...all right, well, then we will sign off on
this discussion, but we willdefinitely have more to come.
Meghan Smallwood (12:40):
So don't forget that you can find our
discussions everywhere. Apple,Spotify, YouTube, music and
others. So hit that followbutton and you won't miss out,
please. If you haven't alreadydone so, consider leaving a
review, preferably a five starone. It helps you spread the
word and helps us, because weknow you're listening. Links to
the information from ourconversations are always in our
(13:02):
show notes. Our YouTube channelcontains curated videos that
revolve around transition,including playlists for
guardianship, alternatives toguardianship ABLE accounts and
more to come. And then finally,check out our website,
www.postsecondarytransition.comfull of information and links to
more resources. Thanks again. Somuch for your time spent with
(13:25):
us, and we look forward totalking again with you soon.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.