October 17, 2024 • 44 mins
The Aqua Culture
In this episode of the Potcast, we dive into the world of sustainable farming and cannabis: aquaponics. Combining hydroponics and aquaculture, aquaponics uses aquatic animals like fish to create nutrient-rich fertilizer for plants to grow in an environment without soil. It’s an inland, symbiotic farming system that yields two products. Host Ross Rebagliati speaks to Rudi Schiebel and Justin Henry, a couple of guys behind Habitat Life, a craft cannabis producer from Chase, British Columbia that uses decoupled aquaponics to grow both healthy coho salmon and really good cannabis.
This circular, closed-loop system is sustainable and natural, reducing the need for chemical fertilizer and minimizing water waste and pollution.
Innovators in the cannabis space do it because they have a real passion for it. There’s science involved, but growing cannabis is an art.
About Habitat Life (https://www.habitat.life/)
Human beings are not separate from nature or somehow outside of the natural world. We are members of a global ecosystem and share our habitat with an estimated 8.7 million different species of organisms.
The fact we are a part of this natural system is becoming more difficult to ignore as the effects of human caused climate change continue to increase in severity and frequency.
Being a farmer means balancing environmental stewardship with profitability. In rethinking aquaponics technology, Habitat has combined the production of salmon with the cultivation of plants in a way that achieves both.
Habitat has identified aquaponics as a farming approach that, through nutrient and waste recycling, can aid in protecting these resources and meet the sustainable development goals of food production. Habitat’s proprietary know-how and technology connects aquaculture waste streams to integrated hydroponic greenhouse infrastructure inputs resulting in an environmentally sustainable and economically profitable aquaponics system
About Ross.
A Canadian snowboarder who won a gold medal in the men's giant slalom event at the 1998 Winter Olympics. The International Olympic Committee initially stripped him of the medal due to a failed drug test for cannabis use, but was overruled by an appeals court two days later, resulting in the medal being restored.
Since the 1998 Olympics, Rebagliati has become an outspoken advocate and entrepreneur for cannabis. Rebagliati was the subject of full-page coverage in the July 14, 2008, edition of Sports Illustrated, which profiled his life since his Olympic win.
About Ripco Processing.
An innovative company that makes novel, fun and potent cannabis products for medical and recreational users of CBD and THC therapies. Cannabis Innovation. Cannabis has been with humans a very long time. There are some very traditional ways to enjoy it that really can’t be beat. But – they can be matched and even enhanced – in ways that are safer, more discrete, predictable and enjoyable. Ripco is continuously creating new ways to enjoy Canada’s favorite herb – ways that consumers want; ones that can quickly become staples for any type of enthusiast. Ripco Processing has acquired Craft Botanicals, which operates a licensed 1100 square foot Micro Processing facility in Calgary, Alberta. This is a GPP level facility that will be upgraded to GMP, and is Health Canada Licensed.
Our Brands
Stick It - Ripco holds the Canadian rights to this patented product. It infuses pre-rolls with intense cannabinoids and reduces the amount of smoke inhaled. Clean burning and easy to use.
STRIPIT - An amazing thin film product like a breath strip. Dissolves quickly to deliver discrete, rapid effects.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This podcast is intended for a mature audience over 19 years of age and is provided on aneducational and informational basis.
Any material presented is for informational purposes only and should not be taken as asubstitute for professional medical advice or as an endorsement or medical claim by
Everything Podcasts or Ripco.Pro.
(00:25):
As the cannabis industry grows, it's looking for ways to innovate.
Not just how to deliver and consume cannabis products, but right at the start, from theroots, how to grow the plant greener and more sustainably.
Growing cannabis has always been a marriage of old school cultivation and new wavetechnology.
Hands in the dirt and high end LED lighting.
(00:47):
It's only gotten more creative as time's gone by.
In this case, they're keeping it natural.
They're using fish.
This season on the podcast, we talked with Kayla Mann briefly about growing cannabis andsalmon in the same system.
Now it's time for the deep dive.
Everything you wanted to know.
Two products from one farm.
(01:08):
It's called aquaponics.
By growing and using the waste of the coho salmon as fertilizer for the plants, the BCbased cannabis producer Habitat Life is able to grow really good and really
environmentally friendly cannabis.
We spoke to two of the guys who built Habitat into the symbiotic circular farmingenvironment it is today.
(01:29):
This kind of innovation goes hand in hand with the changing attitudes and culturesurrounding cannabis.
It comes from the need to work with the resources available and around restrictions fromback in the day.
But when those restrictions ease up or go away, we get to see some real creativity.
I'm Don Schaffer.
I'm Ross Rebelliatti.
(01:49):
This is the podcast.
But first,
While aquaponics is revolutionizing how we grow cannabis sustainably, there's a lothappening in cannabis culture and policy around the world.
So, let's dive into the pot news.
In California, you'll soon be able to go into a café, listen to live music, order food,drinks and cannabis.
(02:09):
Governor Gavin Newsom has signed a bill that will allow cannabis retailers to turn intocannabis cafés.
These establishments were first popularized in Amsterdam.
As it stands now in the state,
Retailers are only allowed to sell prepackaged, non-cannabis infused food and drinks likecandy and water.
Governor Newsom vetoed a similar bill last year over concerns for public health.
(02:32):
This iteration contains amendments that address those concerns.
They include requiring cafes to post warnings about cannabis consumption on site, to havesecondhand smoke and workplace hazard evaluations, and for local governments to consider
building ventilation and filtration when permitting cafes.
By the way, this law goes into effect January 1st.
(02:53):
Plenty of people like to enjoy cannabis with others.
In British Columbia, there's already a law that allows smoking and vaping cannabis onpublic patios where smoking is already permitted, subject to local or indigenous
government bylaws and other rules.
With changes to the cannabis control regulation, licensees are able to promote a place toconsume cannabis or to spend time after consuming cannabis.
(03:18):
However, consuming cannabis in cannabis stores is still not allowed.
United States Vice President Harris says she backs legalizing marijuana.
On a sports and culture podcast, Harris said she thinks we've come to a point where wehave to understand that we need to legalize it and stop criminalizing this behavior.
And she also feels strongly that people shouldn't go to jail for smoking weed.
(03:40):
Harris hasn't always felt this way.
She's been criticized in the past for aggressively prosecuting marijuana-related crimes.
back when she was San Francisco's district attorney and California's attorney general andwas against Proposition 19, the failed ballot measured to legalize marijuana in 2010.
But as Senator, Harris co-sponsored legislation to end the federal prohibition ofmarijuana and has since called for expunging nonviolent marijuana-related criminal
(04:08):
offenses.
Her current position to legalize cannabis is stronger than President Biden's and even herrunning mate, Governor Tim Walz.
who said it should be left up to the individual states.
But aside from Vice President Harris's recent comments, her presidential campaign platformhas not yet formally adopted her stance.
Now let's head back to British Columbia, Canada and chat with the guys from Chase, BC whomake craft cannabis.
(04:37):
I'm Rudy Sheeble.
I'm the CEO and founder of Habitat Life Sciences.
Mind blowing is the word I use a lot when talking about habitat life.
Aquaponics isn't a new thing, but because of the nature of Prohibition, what they weredoing was pretty unheard of.
During Prohibition, most people didn't want to invest a lot of money into their facilitiesfor obvious reasons.
(04:58):
You can tell just by speaking to him, Rudy's got a high level of vision of where he wantedto go and where the industry is going.
When he was getting started, his model wasn't exactly proven for cannabis.
You gotta be pretty brave to jump in and start growing the way he did.
Rudy also doesn't work alone.
My name's Justin Henry and I'm a fish nerd, I guess.
(05:20):
That's selling himself short.
Justin Henry is the aquaculture whiz that Rudy Schiebel brought on to get the system upand running.
Specifically, the tanks that the salmon all go into.
He makes the magic happen.
I was working in the aquaculture industry for decades and Rudy Sheeble called me up oneday and wanted to have a meeting.
(05:44):
I'd just ventured into the consulting phase of my career.
And Rudy said that he was growing cannabis or was planning a cannabis farm and had thisidea that he wanted to
do it aquaponically.
So he wanted to have fish and cannabis growing in the same facility.
(06:07):
But he didn't know anything about fish.
I thought it was a little bit crazy, but it was interesting too.
So we met for lunch one day and after that meeting decided to give it a try.
But let's go back even further.
Rudy didn't start out growing cannabis.
Before we talk more about habitat,
Let's go back to your first entrepreneurial experience.
(06:31):
Tell us a bit about Turtle Valley Bison.
Yeah.
So that was really my inauguration into farming.
So it was my first business, but it was also my accidental entrance into agriculture.
Agriculture was never something that I thought I would end up in, but had the opportunityto buy some farmland in British Columbia.
(06:52):
And through that process, looked at what we could do to have a revenue generatingproperty.
and discovered bison.
Through our searches of what we wanted to potentially run on there, dove in with bothfeet.
Like anything agriculture becomes a seven day a week endeavor and really opened my eyes toone, the opportunities in sustainable agriculture, but then also just the sheer need to
(07:17):
have sustainable and high quality agricultural products in the market today.
Now I've been out to
habitat and Turtle Valley.
And I have to say those animals are majestic and they're big and we got pretty close tothem.
I just have to ask you, have you ever tried to get on one?
(07:37):
No, I haven't tried.
I've been chased by them.
We've had scenarios where we had extra calves or orphan calves that we had to go andrescue out of the herd.
So we had to kind of jump in there, grab them and then bail into the back of pickup truckswhile some of the herds were chasing us.
The moms were chasing us out of the field because they all have the herd mentality and tryto protect.
(07:57):
So that's about as close that you really want to get to them.
No kidding.
That's incredible.
What first interested you in the cannabis industry?
The guy that I founded the Bison Ranch with had a background in the medical cannabisspace.
And as the legalization came forward through to the recreational side, there was theopportunity to get licensing and that opportunity was brought forward.
(08:23):
to me to participate in that.
And my caveat to it was looking at indoor agriculture and cannabis and just looking howresource intensive it is with energy, nutrients, water, and really wanting to incorporate
sustainable agriculture approach to that.
And that was really the starting point of the idea around aquaponics and how we could makeindoor cultivation a bit more sustainable and multifaceted.
(08:49):
And then we really
when Full Force on that brought on Justin Henry, who was the best in the field in terms ofthe aquaculture side and salmon production.
My expertise is not on the cannabis side.
I've been in the aquaculture space for 30 years.
I studied aquaculture back at the University of British Columbia a long time ago, and thenwent on to study aquaculture biotechnology at
(09:19):
Aalborg University in Denmark.
Eventually I came back to British Columbia and started a career in aquaculture.
I think I'm a fish nerd because of my dad who brought us fishing and camping when we werelittle.
know, when I was four years old, started fishing and really interested and passionateabout the fish and trying to learn about them and trying to...
(09:46):
grow them in aquariums at my house, you when I was a kid.
And then eventually when I was studying, I wanted to be a veterinarian.
I went into a pre-veterinary school and was studying that at UBC.
Well, then we had to specialize in some type of animal.
And one of the options was fish.
And I thought, well, that's a no-brainer.
(10:08):
Like that's the most interesting one.
So I'll focus on that.
And then going to veterinary school,
I couldn't just keep focusing on fish.
You had to go start back at the beginning and do all of the different animals to start vetschool.
Well, I didn't want to do that.
I didn't want to work with chickens and the other animals.
(10:30):
So instead, I found a different path.
Instead of vet school, can I continue to study aquaculture somewhere?
And I found somewhere in Denmark where I could do that.
It wasn't some point where I thought, hey, this is what I'm going to do.
I just always kept leading down that path.
The reason I wanted to get into it on the education side was to make sure that we had allthese fish in the future, like concerns about wild salmon stocks and stuff like that.
(11:03):
I thought this would be the best path to make sure that my kids and my grandkids are gonnahave these fish out in the wild.
So that was the path that I chose.
We really wanted to focus that the salmon side of the business was going to be its ownbusiness, not just looking at it as the nutrient source of our cannabis.
(11:24):
So we brought him on, we designed the system, we spent a few years developing that,killing a lot of plants, trying to get that whole program to work.
Through the years, we really refined it down to where it's at now in producing really highquality and really good cannabis.
If you can sum up in a few sentences,
(11:45):
What Habitat is, what would it be?
I would say that it's a sustainable farming model.
I think that's the first and foremost why we do what we do.
And then what we produce comes out of that.
Like any sort of agricultural models, what are you producing?
And then how do you produce it?
So for us, it's Coho salmon and Kraft cannabis under our cake and caviar brand.
(12:06):
Habitat is a aquaponics company.
What we mean by that is we have an aquaculture component to our business, which is asalmon farm.
that produces coho salmon and that's the aqua part of aquaponics.
And then we have the cannabis side of our business which is growing in deep water culturein all the water and nutrient rich water that comes from the coho salmon farm which is the
(12:30):
ponics side of our program.
So together that's aquaponics and we really run a multifaceted or symbiotic farm.
Aquaponics is the combined production of fish and plants or seaweed in some cases in acomplementary system that's linked by water and the microbial community.
(12:55):
We brought Justin Henry onto the show specifically to get into the nitty gritty and thesurprisingly deep story.
Aquaponics is a term that a lot of people don't know that they haven't heard of.
And it is really
something that's emerging, although it's been around for a long time.
So if you think back of the Hanging Gardens of Babylon, for example, they're usingaquaponics there, or the Aztec Chinampas, or rice fields in China.
(13:28):
For thousands of years, people have been carrying out aquaponics, sort of more recently,but a few decades back.
It started to get commercialized and that started at the University of the Virgin Islandswhere they were growing lettuce in something that would maybe typically look like a
(13:50):
hydroponic system, but then they had a couple of tanks of tilapia at the end of it andthen using the nutrients from those fish for the plants.
So that really started to develop over the past couple of decades where more and more ofthose came out.
A lot of them are
hobby farm size of facilities, but they're all focused on the plant and then adding somefish on the end of it.
(14:16):
Fish are like people in that they consume oxygen and feed and water and they produceammonia and solid waste and carbon dioxide.
So in what's called a recirculating aquaculture system,
(14:36):
In a system where you're growing fish in tanks on land and you want to recycle and reusethe water, you need to just filter out those things that they produce, the ammonia, the
carbon dioxide and the solid waste.
So that technology has developed quite a bit, really over the past 20 years.
(14:58):
It had a slow rise and there's a lot of interest in that technology now.
maybe by coincidence, but just an interesting part of it is that those things that we'restripping out, which is the ammonia and the carbon dioxide and the solids, those are used
(15:19):
for inputs for growing plants.
So the idea with aquaponics is that you can combine these two things together.
We have a fish system and then we have a plant system and in between,
is sort of where the magic happens, is what we call a mineralization system.
We can filter out the solids from the fish system and then we digest those and itessentially makes the nutrients available for the plants.
(15:49):
So then we send that water to the plants and that's how we grow the plants.
And it can be pretty much any plant really.
What we can do is take the inputs for the fish for some feed and water.
and then the outputs, those go as food for the plants.
You can then send that water back to the fish again after the plants have essentiallycleaned out the nutrients and then you can reuse it.
(16:18):
We use a technology called recirculating aquaculture systems.
What that means is we're recirculating about 99.7 % of the water within the fish farm atany given time.
So we're treating the ammonia, which is turning into nitrate.
We're treating the CO2 and we're using UV and ozone to oxygenate and treat the microbiallife within the water so that the salmon are always in the highest quality water that is
(16:43):
possible because salmon are very sensitive to the environment that they're in.
So we need to have essentially perfect parameters to grow salmon in a closed system.
What that allows us to do in a closed system is actually to capture all of that nutrientwaste that comes from the uneaten feed.
and the manure that comes from the fish production as well as the ammonia that's producedfrom them respiring.
(17:07):
And so that really forms the basis of the nutrient solution that then gets pumped over tothe cannabis side where we're growing in about 10 inches of water.
You might remember that Justin mentioned it earlier.
This is called deep water culture.
It's a method of growing plants with their roots submerged in nutrient rich water insteadof soil.
(17:29):
allowing them to absorb nutrients more directly.
So it's deep water culture.
So we have no soil, no media.
The roots are just growing directly into water.
As the plants drink the water, we re-top up the water.
We do augmentation to the water, whether that's pH, adding in potassium, things like thatthat don't come from the aquaculture side.
And the plants uptake the vast majority of the nitrogen that we produce from the fishsystem.
(17:54):
I've been there a few times over the years.
And what always is impressive to me is how large the biomass of the root balls are in thewater.
I mean, they're literally the size of like a mop.
Just sucking up all the nutrients.
It's incredible.
What sets Habitat System apart from other aquaponics facilities?
So at Habitat, we approached it a little bit differently.
(18:16):
We said, let's create an optimal facility for the fish and then we can add the plants aswell.
So really it's trying to create an optimal facility for both the plants and the fish.
There are two different types of facilities.
So one is called a coupled facility and one is decoupled.
(18:38):
To make some sense out of it, I'll just briefly talk about in a fish system, arecirculating aquaculture system.
You remove the solids, which is fish, feces and uneaten feed, and you have like a screenfilter to mechanically remove those.
And then you have a biological filter where you're growing bacteria and those bacteriaconsume the ammonia and they end up producing nitrate, which is the nitrogen that plants
(19:09):
are taking up.
And then you're stripping out carbon dioxide from the water and then you're disinfectingthe water and sending it back to the fish.
So on a coupled aquaponics facility, the plants
are really just one more filter in that series of filters.
(19:29):
So the plants would then take up that nitrate that the biological filter is producing, andthe water just keeps going through the system.
The water goes then back to the fish.
In a decoupled system, you have this recirculation system with all these filters for thefish.
And then you also have a recirculation system for the plants.
(19:53):
And you just
are sending the solids that you take out using the micro screen filter.
You move those solids over to a digester and then those nutrients become the mostavailable for the plants.
You separate out the solids then and you have a nice clear liquid that's high in nutrientsand you send that to the fish.
(20:18):
As you're stripping out the CO2, you can send that over to the plant room as well.
So you're reusing all of these things that are in the past have been wasted from a fishfacility and you can use all of those things.
Now the scale of habitat from the fish side, first of all, it works really, really well,but the scale by itself is too small, you know, really to be an independent business.
(20:45):
And that's where, you know, we're looking at the scale up of it.
But when I think about aquaponics and look at data from
lots of different research that's carried out in aquaponics on a variety of plants.
When you really get it dialed in, you can see quite a significant benefit in terms ofhealth and growth of the plant in these systems.
(21:09):
They are tricky to get dialed in, but once you do that, I think there are some prettysignificant benefits.
From my perspective, also on the aquaculture side, I'm always looking to
try to capture nutrients that are lost.
So I don't want to waste anything.
(21:30):
So we look at all of these nutrients in the feces, for example, that can be used in a lotof aquaculture.
There's no ability to capture those.
So in these aquaponic systems and in the system at Habitat, we can capture that.
And so once you've got it, then you have to figure out what's the best use for it.
(21:52):
You can use it directly in an aquaponic system, or you can capture it and use it in atraditional terrestrial agriculture system.
The location of the habitat facility is right in the middle of agriculture land.
So there is a lot of crop production that you can use the nutrients in that as well.
(22:15):
Good water quality is the key to lots of agriculture in plants and for sure with fish.
The system though can produce very good water quality.
Even if your incoming water isn't perfect, you have that ability to amend and filter it toget that water quality.
(22:35):
The reason that's possible is because such a high percentage of water that's filtered andrecirculated in the system, the actual new water, the makeup water, is a very small
percentage of the flow.
In the system at
habitat, we filter and reuse about 99.5 % of the water.
(22:59):
So the makeup water is just a tiny percentage of the flow, half a percent or so of theflow of the system.
So it really highlights the circular nature of the system, reusing waste and reusing waterto benefit both sides of the production.
You have to believe this kind of thing is one of the best solutions in the long run forthe environment.
and it just makes sense being where habitat is located.
(23:22):
The interior of BC is technically a desert.
In a desert, why would you use such a system that's water-based?
The reality is that the amount of water used in this system is far, far less than in othertypes of culture systems.
Significantly less water would be used in this system than, for example, a terrestrialsystem, or if you were growing the plants in
(23:48):
soil in any type of system, this will use much less water than that.
And you can have these systems pretty much anywhere and then focus on how you'llcontinually reduce water use.
Probably there's some evaporation of water, but nothing like the evaporation experiencewhen watering soil.
(24:11):
As scientific an operation that you can have, I've never seen anything like it out there.
Is this process better for the environment in general, or is it just more efficient?
Where it's at right now, it's not perfect in terms of we still use a large amount ofenergy being an indoor cultivator.
So we still have to power our lights and all our controls and circulate the water.
(24:33):
But what we are doing is being very water efficient and we're being very nitrogenefficient.
So in terms of needing to buy fertilizers or have fertilizer waste, we have both of thosekind of really dialed in as well as the CO2.
that's produced from the production of protein, which really all protein productioncreates CO2 output.
(24:55):
By growing next to plants, plants really like CO2.
So we can really kind of have a CO2 sink from that side and create as close to a carbonneutral protein source in salmon as we possibly can by being able to utilize that
symbiotic relationship.
From those aspects, it's really sustainable.
And then obviously we're always trying to improve and find that next level of how can wemake this more sustainable, more adoptable by other farmers and how can we see both the
(25:22):
salmon side of the business and the cultivation side of the business expand beyond evenwhat we're doing.
So that's a big focus of kind of the parent company or habitat life sciences side of thebusiness.
what effect does this type of farming have on the end product of salmon?
and the production of cannabis?
Well, it's a decoupled system.
(25:43):
So the production of salmon is very isolated to the protocols and procedures of how we runthe fish farm.
And we have that very dialed in and the quality of the product that comes out of that istop notch.
We have people all over who just love the product and want to see us grow more of theproduct, which is something that we're always looking to do.
Really what we're doing is harvesting the nutrient from the fish farm.
(26:05):
so
The cannabis side is in its own isolated one-way street of the water flowing to thecannabis side.
And then just as the water is consumed, we replace that and like I said, make thoseadjustments.
So there really isn't an interaction the other way.
So we have no effect from the fish to speak on the cannabis.
Some people ask, you ever get any like fish flavor through to the cannabis?
(26:27):
That's not really how that works.
It's just the nutrients that's been released into the water and same back to the salmon.
There's no interaction with the cannabis plants, so there's no potential for any sort ofcontamination.
guess what people are concerned about whether there's THC in the fish at all.
The reason that you would decouple a facility, even though it's a lot more complicated tobuild and operate, you can really dial in the parameters.
(26:56):
So if the fish and plants are living in the same water, then you have to have the same pHand the same
water quality parameters and perhaps you're sacrificing a little bit on both sides.
But if you decouple it, you can have optimal parameters for the fish on one side and thenoptimal parameters for the plants on the other side.
(27:22):
The salmon from Habitat is really impressive.
I've eaten fish my whole life and tried all the species of salmon.
And the quality of coho salmon that they produce is the best that I've had.
The flavor is beautiful, it's clean, just the right oil content.
(27:43):
The fish look beautiful, the pigments really nice.
It's a really impressive fish.
Unfortunately, they don't produce a huge amount of it.
So it's not something that's readily available around the market, unless you're therelocally, then it's available.
But it's something that Habitat's working on now.
How do we scale out the fish portion of it?
(28:05):
How do we expand that portion of it and really make that product more available across thecountry?
We sell at Farmgate so people can come pick it up from the farm.
And then we sell it through Fisherman's Market in Kamloops and then to certain selectchefs in the area.
How is the waste from the salmon processed and added to the cannabis to grow?
(28:26):
So there are eight fish tanks in the room.
Six of them are for production tanks and two are for finishing for the fish before youharvest them.
And these tanks are about 5,000 liters for each tank.
I don't know if that sounds big or small to people, but for aquaculture, that's prettysmall.
And we're growing fish in those tanks throughout their entire life cycle.
(28:50):
you'll see a lot of pipes leading out of that fish room.
The water from the fish go into another room, which we call the mineralization room.
First it runs through a drum filter, microscreen drum filter, where the solids areseparated out.
That's the feces and uneaten feed.
And then the water goes through a biological filter where it's just growing bacteria andthese bacteria are nitrifying bacteria.
(29:20):
They consume the ammonia in the water and produce nitrate.
The reason that you need that is because ammonia builds up and it can become toxic for thefish.
Then the water gets aerated.
So we're stripping out the carbon dioxide that the fish produce.
We're adding oxygen to the water.
We're adding ozone to the water as well for disinfection.
(29:41):
Then we pump that water back to the fish room, goes through a UV filter, and then througha chiller.
which is cooling the water down and then it goes back to the fish.
Now, beside that mineralization system in that same room, those solids, the feces anduneaten feed goes into a large tank, which is a digester.
(30:07):
So we have to aerate that and we're growing bacteria in there that are breaking down thatfeces and making the nutrients most available for the plants.
Then out of that digester, we separate the feces from the water, which just throughsettling and then that high nutrient clear liquid flows off of there and then gets pumped
(30:32):
to the plant rooms.
There are six plant rooms and each one is on its own small recirculation system.
So the water gets topped up from the mineralization system to each plant room and it
works really well.
Do you add any nutrients to that plant food or anything or is it just a hundred percentfrom the salmon?
(30:57):
Well, it's not a hundred percent from the salmon, but a hundred percent of the nitrogen,calcium and magnesium can come from the salmon side of the program.
So we capture the uneaten waste and manure and we use bacterial life aerobic digestion tobreak that down like essentially into a liquid compost that releases all the nutrients
into the water, breaks it down into
(31:18):
liquid soil then we filter that and treat that so it's clear water and doesn't have anyissues of clogging the hydroponic system and then that gets fed directly to our plants.
Now the whole time we've been talking about fertilizer the question has probably crossedyour mind.
Does fish poop smell?
Don't worry we asked Justin.
The answer is it depends.
(31:41):
For fish poop or probably any type of poop this
is going into a digester.
Now there are different types of digesters.
If you have an anaerobic digester, which means you don't have oxygen in it and you'remixing it and it's digesting, that works really well.
If you want to produce some methane, which you can then burn for biogas, and that smellsreally, really bad.
(32:08):
In this case at Habitat's facility, it's an aerobic digester.
So we're
adding air and oxygen to the digester.
And in that case, the poop doesn't smell bad.
It just smells like soil.
It's quite nice.
the industry right now, it's pretty difficult to get an organic certification forcannabis, but Habitat has that organic certification under the Aquatic Act.
(32:37):
How does that affect your retail and what does that mean to your brand?
There's a couple sides to that.
Yeah, we were the first cannabis company to be certified under a national standard.
So there's two standards, the terrestrial and the aquaculture standard.
And so we were able to get certified under the aquaculture standard.
A lot of what we built around our brand has been around the aquaponics and how we grow.
(32:59):
And we thought that the organic side of it would allow us to fetch a premium, but so farthat hasn't really been the case.
We've been subject to kind of the same price compressions and competitive environment thatexists in the Canadian cannabis space right now, as I'm sure you're.
feel as well.
Yes, yes buddy.
I feel your pain.
So most of the organic stuff actually the benefits come from the salmon side of thebusiness from the food.
(33:22):
People really value it in the food and didn't really seem to value it in the cannabis sideof the business which was quite an interesting finding for us.
But what it did do was it brought attention to us internationally and so we had peoplereach out to us from Germany, the UK and Australia and now the majority of our business is
in export.
(33:42):
and really around the story of aquaponics and how we grow in doing that.
So I think the benefit came into the fact that we were able to stand out and really be oneof the first craft producers exporting, which seems to be picking up steam now.
Well, having spent some time in Europe myself, I can imagine the organic certificationdefinitely pulls some weight.
(34:05):
Now, as far as your strains, why don't you run through the strains that you guys produce?
Yeah, our main flagship is the waffle bites.
That's our cake lineage, which is what our name was based off of.
had two main cultivars that stemmed into the breeding program that we had, that was cakeand caviar and the genetic bank that we had.
And so we just carried that forward into habitats endeavors.
(34:28):
Yeah, the most of what we've put out has come from that line.
So waffle bites is for the most part, the sole one that we're growing right now to justkeep up with the demand of export.
But we do have one that we run interchangeably called gunpowder milkshake, which is kindof the caviar diversion of the waffle ice.
It's a very trichome dense flour, a bit smaller buds, but has a very creamy mix with GMOkind of smell to it, which is where that gunpowder milkshake name came from.
(34:56):
smooth.
Both of them are very smooth and both are quite potent.
Like we test around the 25 to 28 % on those pretty regularly and more on the 28%.
range for the most part.
So right now we have a bank of a lot of other genetics, but we've just found that we'vebeen able to dial those in and service those two cultivars.
And we haven't had much capacity for the other ones quite at this time.
(35:20):
Blueberry Yum Yum was a fan favorite that we, I love that one and still dointerchangeably.
actually have a partner grower that's growing that now for us going out under a craft linethat separates a bit from our aquaponics line, but
People just love some of our genetics and we wanted to give them access to that.
So we partnered with some other craft growers and created the best of BC growers line onthat, that we're just working on launching.
(35:44):
So we'll be able to keep blueberry, yum yum rolling, maybe bring lemon loaf back.
yeah.
And then maybe introduce some new cultivars coming up here that I think people can getexcited about.
That's pretty exciting.
Now just on average, where do you think your terps fall?
On average, they're around 3%.
Yeah.
We've hit as high as 4 % and we do get sometimes around the 2.5 % but sometimes that comesfrom more of like the drying process.
(36:10):
I'm a big turps guy so I know cake and caviar.
The turps are present and it's pretty obvious what you guys are doing out there as far asquality is concerned.
Is cannabis produced using aquaponics better than other types of cannabis?
Does it differentiate itself a little bit that way?
(36:30):
There's lot of factors, as you know, that impact the quality of cannabis.
I think there's a few from growing in deep water culture.
Some of the areas that we really see a divergence is just the sheer rate of growth thathappens in the deep water culture.
So that initial three weeks of vegetative growth until we kind of do that initial defol isjust, it's insane.
(36:51):
It's really hard to keep up with.
So for our listeners, the defol, that's a defoliation.
You you kind of de-leaf it a little bit, maybe do some pruning and then that creates alittle bit of a growth spurt in the plants.
The bioavailability of the nutrients in the deep water culture, personally, I think issuperior than other types of growing mediums.
So that most likely has a little bit to do with it.
(37:13):
Yeah, it's direct.
They have no interference, so they can just take up whatever they want.
And so it really leads to rapid growth.
And then I think from there, the balance, your environmentals.
and managing kind of the whole range of what drives cannabis is really what drives thequality out of it.
And so I think apples to apples, if you have all that within deep water culture, then youcan grow really high quality cannabis.
(37:36):
And I think that it drives a bit of a more trichome dense, more terpene rich flower, whichfor most people equates to higher quality.
again, just growing an aquaponics or DWC doesn't mean that you'll end up with high qualitycannabis.
have to have the whole program with it.
Same thing with the salmon side.
Creating an environment and a farm where your animals are really healthy and happy is keyto having a high quality product that comes out the other end.
(38:02):
So everything we've done is to produce a high quality product.
And I think it's equivalent.
We can put it up against any sort of wild salmon that people bring forward and we have,and people have selected our salmon over wild salmon in a few different cases.
So that's been pretty fun to see.
using this method is like hitting two birds with one stone.
You produce food.
(38:23):
and cannabis in the same place, which is super efficient for the environment.
But what about the cost?
That's one of the main pillars, I would say, to sustainability, right?
If it's not economically sustainable, then it's not going to be sustainable long term.
And still in agriculture, you have to make money on what you're growing or else you're notgoing to be growing it for very long.
(38:44):
So the salmon side of the business requires scale like most food production does in orderfor it to be
really economical on its own standing, which is a big part of the project of what we'reworking on is how to go from the four tons of production that we're doing now with plans
to do the next farm, which is going to be about 300 metric tons of production.
(39:06):
That's been a really exciting project that we've been working on and something that kindof diverges a little bit away from cannabis because obviously we won't be scaling the
cannabis side of the business up to that same extent, but that gives us opportunities toincorporate the salmon side with other
types of agriculture, traditional types, whether that's field crops by irrigating in thesummer and getting the nitrogen into the soil or greenhouse production, things like that.
(39:31):
But from the cannabis side, like I think everybody in the space, we've had a fun few yearsof trying to find a balance and find a path to successful business in that.
And I think this year with the export coming online, last year we were just slightlyprofitable and this year we're going to be even more profitable.
things are
looking good on that side.
(39:51):
The cannabis side with what we're doing and just being able to differentiate has proven tobe a model that's working for us.
That's the name of the game.
To highlight the safety of consuming the salmon coming out of that environment, to me itsounds like it would be way more controlled than say a wild salmon just swimming around in
the ocean, who knows what they come across during that journey.
(40:14):
But in your situation, you have like an enclosed system.
You know exactly what's in the water.
You know exactly what they're eating.
And then of course, the end product.
I mean, you're pretty much producing like the highest level salmon that you might find insushi, for example.
Am I correct in assuming that?
Yeah.
A lot of salmon, whether you're buying it from the marine farms or wild salmon is you needto make sure that it's been frozen first to make sure there's no parasites or anything in
(40:40):
it.
Our fish, when it comes out of the finishing tank.
You can eat it right then and there.
There's no risk of any parasite because we have a controlled environment.
In terms of the water quality, we're always maintaining our water quality.
We know exactly what's in our water.
So any of the concerns around heavy metals, microplastics, things like that, that peopleare concerned about within our oceans, from our oceans being so polluted or to your point,
(41:02):
you don't know where those salmon swam or where their range is.
They can end up swimming by Fukushima and then coming back and spawning.
And then you're eating that salmon.
So
In terms of the quality, I think it's probably the highest and safest quality that youcould have in regards to traceability and food security.
So you get the highest quality salmon and you get the highest from smoking cake andcaviar.
(41:27):
Rudy and the key people there at Habitat have a really interesting vision.
And I really look forward to this next stage on the fish side on how
They're developing a platform which really they think will enable the launch or theemergence of land-based salmon production here in Canada and in other countries.
(41:50):
There's a reason why people like Rudy have a place in this industry.
He earned it.
It's a common denominator in everybody that's still around.
Resilience.
You've got to have resilience to stay in this game.
You've got to have the passion for cannabis even when it doesn't really make sense from afinancial standpoint.
It's a tricky business, but if you persevere and don't give up, it's kind of like sports.
(42:13):
The guys that want it the most are going to get it.
Aquaponics is just one way of growing cannabis, but there's probably a half a dozenequally good other ways to do it.
It's just a matter of picking your method and then perfecting it and mastering whatever itis.
Whether you're doing deep water culture, aquaponics, living soil, aeroponics, whatever,you just got to find one that works for you and then stick with it.
(42:39):
because it's an art.
Each one is an art form in itself.
That was Rudy Schiebel, CEO and founder of Habitat Life, and Justin Henry, Habitat'saquaculture advisor.
They're focused on responsible production, because we're using up resources like freshwater and energy and nutrients quickly, more than the global generation rate allows.
(43:03):
And in an extraction industry like fishing, we're taking much more than we need.
So in turn, we turn to people like Rudy and Justin to provide an alternative solutionthat'll take some of the pressure off.
and just let the earth do its thing.
And in the meantime, have some sustainably sourced salmon and cannabis.
See what else they're doing for their community and the environment by visiting themonline at habitat.life.
(43:32):
The podcast with Ross Rabliotti is an everything podcasts production in partnership withRIPCO.pro.
The opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of the podcast teamor our partners.
This show is intended for a 19 plus audience.
Our host is Ross Rabliotti, showrunner Karen Hibashi, our writers Jordan Wong and oursound engineers John Massicar.
(43:56):
I'm Don Schafer.
Thanks for listening to the podcast, the authority on cannabis innovation and culture.
And don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcast.
Another Everything Podcast production.
Visit everythingpodcast.com, a division of Patterson Media.
Subscribe wherever you get your podcast.
This podcast is intended for a mature audience over 19 years of age and is provided on aneducational and informational basis.
Any material presented is for informational purposes only and should not be taken as asubstitute for professional medical advice or as an endorsement or medical claim by
Everything Podcasts or Ripco.Pro.
(00:25):
As the cannabis industry grows, it's looking for ways to innovate.
Not just how to deliver and consume cannabis products, but right at the start, from theroots, how to grow the plant greener and more sustainably.
Growing cannabis has always been a marriage of old school cultivation and new wavetechnology.
Hands in the dirt and high end LED lighting.
(00:47):
It's only gotten more creative as time's gone by.
In this case, they're keeping it natural.
They're using fish.
This season on the podcast, we talked with Kayla Mann briefly about growing cannabis andsalmon in the same system.
Now it's time for the deep dive.
Everything you wanted to know.
Two products from one farm.
(01:08):
It's called aquaponics.
By growing and using the waste of the coho salmon as fertilizer for the plants, the BCbased cannabis producer Habitat Life is able to grow really good and really
environmentally friendly cannabis.
We spoke to two of the guys who built Habitat into the symbiotic circular farmingenvironment it is today.
(01:29):
This kind of innovation goes hand in hand with the changing attitudes and culturesurrounding cannabis.
It comes from the need to work with the resources available and around restrictions fromback in the day.
But when those restrictions ease up or go away, we get to see some real creativity.
I'm Don Schaffer.
I'm Ross Rebelliatti.
(01:49):
This is the podcast.
But first,
While aquaponics is revolutionizing how we grow cannabis sustainably, there's a lothappening in cannabis culture and policy around the world.
So, let's dive into the pot news.
In California, you'll soon be able to go into a café, listen to live music, order food,drinks and cannabis.
(02:09):
Governor Gavin Newsom has signed a bill that will allow cannabis retailers to turn intocannabis cafés.
These establishments were first popularized in Amsterdam.
As it stands now in the state,
Retailers are only allowed to sell prepackaged, non-cannabis infused food and drinks likecandy and water.
Governor Newsom vetoed a similar bill last year over concerns for public health.
(02:32):
This iteration contains amendments that address those concerns.
They include requiring cafes to post warnings about cannabis consumption on site, to havesecondhand smoke and workplace hazard evaluations, and for local governments to consider
building ventilation and filtration when permitting cafes.
By the way, this law goes into effect January 1st.
(02:53):
Plenty of people like to enjoy cannabis with others.
In British Columbia, there's already a law that allows smoking and vaping cannabis onpublic patios where smoking is already permitted, subject to local or indigenous
government bylaws and other rules.
With changes to the cannabis control regulation, licensees are able to promote a place toconsume cannabis or to spend time after consuming cannabis.
(03:18):
However, consuming cannabis in cannabis stores is still not allowed.
United States Vice President Harris says she backs legalizing marijuana.
On a sports and culture podcast, Harris said she thinks we've come to a point where wehave to understand that we need to legalize it and stop criminalizing this behavior.
And she also feels strongly that people shouldn't go to jail for smoking weed.
(03:40):
Harris hasn't always felt this way.
She's been criticized in the past for aggressively prosecuting marijuana-related crimes.
back when she was San Francisco's district attorney and California's attorney general andwas against Proposition 19, the failed ballot measured to legalize marijuana in 2010.
But as Senator, Harris co-sponsored legislation to end the federal prohibition ofmarijuana and has since called for expunging nonviolent marijuana-related criminal
(04:08):
offenses.
Her current position to legalize cannabis is stronger than President Biden's and even herrunning mate, Governor Tim Walz.
who said it should be left up to the individual states.
But aside from Vice President Harris's recent comments, her presidential campaign platformhas not yet formally adopted her stance.
Now let's head back to British Columbia, Canada and chat with the guys from Chase, BC whomake craft cannabis.
(04:37):
I'm Rudy Sheeble.
I'm the CEO and founder of Habitat Life Sciences.
Mind blowing is the word I use a lot when talking about habitat life.
Aquaponics isn't a new thing, but because of the nature of Prohibition, what they weredoing was pretty unheard of.
During Prohibition, most people didn't want to invest a lot of money into their facilitiesfor obvious reasons.
(04:58):
You can tell just by speaking to him, Rudy's got a high level of vision of where he wantedto go and where the industry is going.
When he was getting started, his model wasn't exactly proven for cannabis.
You gotta be pretty brave to jump in and start growing the way he did.
Rudy also doesn't work alone.
My name's Justin Henry and I'm a fish nerd, I guess.
(05:20):
That's selling himself short.
Justin Henry is the aquaculture whiz that Rudy Schiebel brought on to get the system upand running.
Specifically, the tanks that the salmon all go into.
He makes the magic happen.
I was working in the aquaculture industry for decades and Rudy Sheeble called me up oneday and wanted to have a meeting.
(05:44):
I'd just ventured into the consulting phase of my career.
And Rudy said that he was growing cannabis or was planning a cannabis farm and had thisidea that he wanted to
do it aquaponically.
So he wanted to have fish and cannabis growing in the same facility.
(06:07):
But he didn't know anything about fish.
I thought it was a little bit crazy, but it was interesting too.
So we met for lunch one day and after that meeting decided to give it a try.
But let's go back even further.
Rudy didn't start out growing cannabis.
Before we talk more about habitat,
Let's go back to your first entrepreneurial experience.
(06:31):
Tell us a bit about Turtle Valley Bison.
Yeah.
So that was really my inauguration into farming.
So it was my first business, but it was also my accidental entrance into agriculture.
Agriculture was never something that I thought I would end up in, but had the opportunityto buy some farmland in British Columbia.
(06:52):
And through that process, looked at what we could do to have a revenue generatingproperty.
and discovered bison.
Through our searches of what we wanted to potentially run on there, dove in with bothfeet.
Like anything agriculture becomes a seven day a week endeavor and really opened my eyes toone, the opportunities in sustainable agriculture, but then also just the sheer need to
(07:17):
have sustainable and high quality agricultural products in the market today.
Now I've been out to
habitat and Turtle Valley.
And I have to say those animals are majestic and they're big and we got pretty close tothem.
I just have to ask you, have you ever tried to get on one?
(07:37):
No, I haven't tried.
I've been chased by them.
We've had scenarios where we had extra calves or orphan calves that we had to go andrescue out of the herd.
So we had to kind of jump in there, grab them and then bail into the back of pickup truckswhile some of the herds were chasing us.
The moms were chasing us out of the field because they all have the herd mentality and tryto protect.
(07:57):
So that's about as close that you really want to get to them.
No kidding.
That's incredible.
What first interested you in the cannabis industry?
The guy that I founded the Bison Ranch with had a background in the medical cannabisspace.
And as the legalization came forward through to the recreational side, there was theopportunity to get licensing and that opportunity was brought forward.
(08:23):
to me to participate in that.
And my caveat to it was looking at indoor agriculture and cannabis and just looking howresource intensive it is with energy, nutrients, water, and really wanting to incorporate
sustainable agriculture approach to that.
And that was really the starting point of the idea around aquaponics and how we could makeindoor cultivation a bit more sustainable and multifaceted.
(08:49):
And then we really
when Full Force on that brought on Justin Henry, who was the best in the field in terms ofthe aquaculture side and salmon production.
My expertise is not on the cannabis side.
I've been in the aquaculture space for 30 years.
I studied aquaculture back at the University of British Columbia a long time ago, and thenwent on to study aquaculture biotechnology at
(09:19):
Aalborg University in Denmark.
Eventually I came back to British Columbia and started a career in aquaculture.
I think I'm a fish nerd because of my dad who brought us fishing and camping when we werelittle.
know, when I was four years old, started fishing and really interested and passionateabout the fish and trying to learn about them and trying to...
(09:46):
grow them in aquariums at my house, you when I was a kid.
And then eventually when I was studying, I wanted to be a veterinarian.
I went into a pre-veterinary school and was studying that at UBC.
Well, then we had to specialize in some type of animal.
And one of the options was fish.
And I thought, well, that's a no-brainer.
(10:08):
Like that's the most interesting one.
So I'll focus on that.
And then going to veterinary school,
I couldn't just keep focusing on fish.
You had to go start back at the beginning and do all of the different animals to start vetschool.
Well, I didn't want to do that.
I didn't want to work with chickens and the other animals.
(10:30):
So instead, I found a different path.
Instead of vet school, can I continue to study aquaculture somewhere?
And I found somewhere in Denmark where I could do that.
It wasn't some point where I thought, hey, this is what I'm going to do.
I just always kept leading down that path.
The reason I wanted to get into it on the education side was to make sure that we had allthese fish in the future, like concerns about wild salmon stocks and stuff like that.
(11:03):
I thought this would be the best path to make sure that my kids and my grandkids are gonnahave these fish out in the wild.
So that was the path that I chose.
We really wanted to focus that the salmon side of the business was going to be its ownbusiness, not just looking at it as the nutrient source of our cannabis.
(11:24):
So we brought him on, we designed the system, we spent a few years developing that,killing a lot of plants, trying to get that whole program to work.
Through the years, we really refined it down to where it's at now in producing really highquality and really good cannabis.
If you can sum up in a few sentences,
(11:45):
What Habitat is, what would it be?
I would say that it's a sustainable farming model.
I think that's the first and foremost why we do what we do.
And then what we produce comes out of that.
Like any sort of agricultural models, what are you producing?
And then how do you produce it?
So for us, it's Coho salmon and Kraft cannabis under our cake and caviar brand.
(12:06):
Habitat is a aquaponics company.
What we mean by that is we have an aquaculture component to our business, which is asalmon farm.
that produces coho salmon and that's the aqua part of aquaponics.
And then we have the cannabis side of our business which is growing in deep water culturein all the water and nutrient rich water that comes from the coho salmon farm which is the
(12:30):
ponics side of our program.
So together that's aquaponics and we really run a multifaceted or symbiotic farm.
Aquaponics is the combined production of fish and plants or seaweed in some cases in acomplementary system that's linked by water and the microbial community.
(12:55):
We brought Justin Henry onto the show specifically to get into the nitty gritty and thesurprisingly deep story.
Aquaponics is a term that a lot of people don't know that they haven't heard of.
And it is really
something that's emerging, although it's been around for a long time.
So if you think back of the Hanging Gardens of Babylon, for example, they're usingaquaponics there, or the Aztec Chinampas, or rice fields in China.
(13:28):
For thousands of years, people have been carrying out aquaponics, sort of more recently,but a few decades back.
It started to get commercialized and that started at the University of the Virgin Islandswhere they were growing lettuce in something that would maybe typically look like a
(13:50):
hydroponic system, but then they had a couple of tanks of tilapia at the end of it andthen using the nutrients from those fish for the plants.
So that really started to develop over the past couple of decades where more and more ofthose came out.
A lot of them are
hobby farm size of facilities, but they're all focused on the plant and then adding somefish on the end of it.
(14:16):
Fish are like people in that they consume oxygen and feed and water and they produceammonia and solid waste and carbon dioxide.
So in what's called a recirculating aquaculture system,
(14:36):
In a system where you're growing fish in tanks on land and you want to recycle and reusethe water, you need to just filter out those things that they produce, the ammonia, the
carbon dioxide and the solid waste.
So that technology has developed quite a bit, really over the past 20 years.
(14:58):
It had a slow rise and there's a lot of interest in that technology now.
maybe by coincidence, but just an interesting part of it is that those things that we'restripping out, which is the ammonia and the carbon dioxide and the solids, those are used
(15:19):
for inputs for growing plants.
So the idea with aquaponics is that you can combine these two things together.
We have a fish system and then we have a plant system and in between,
is sort of where the magic happens, is what we call a mineralization system.
We can filter out the solids from the fish system and then we digest those and itessentially makes the nutrients available for the plants.
(15:49):
So then we send that water to the plants and that's how we grow the plants.
And it can be pretty much any plant really.
What we can do is take the inputs for the fish for some feed and water.
and then the outputs, those go as food for the plants.
You can then send that water back to the fish again after the plants have essentiallycleaned out the nutrients and then you can reuse it.
(16:18):
We use a technology called recirculating aquaculture systems.
What that means is we're recirculating about 99.7 % of the water within the fish farm atany given time.
So we're treating the ammonia, which is turning into nitrate.
We're treating the CO2 and we're using UV and ozone to oxygenate and treat the microbiallife within the water so that the salmon are always in the highest quality water that is
(16:43):
possible because salmon are very sensitive to the environment that they're in.
So we need to have essentially perfect parameters to grow salmon in a closed system.
What that allows us to do in a closed system is actually to capture all of that nutrientwaste that comes from the uneaten feed.
and the manure that comes from the fish production as well as the ammonia that's producedfrom them respiring.
(17:07):
And so that really forms the basis of the nutrient solution that then gets pumped over tothe cannabis side where we're growing in about 10 inches of water.
You might remember that Justin mentioned it earlier.
This is called deep water culture.
It's a method of growing plants with their roots submerged in nutrient rich water insteadof soil.
(17:29):
allowing them to absorb nutrients more directly.
So it's deep water culture.
So we have no soil, no media.
The roots are just growing directly into water.
As the plants drink the water, we re-top up the water.
We do augmentation to the water, whether that's pH, adding in potassium, things like thatthat don't come from the aquaculture side.
And the plants uptake the vast majority of the nitrogen that we produce from the fishsystem.
(17:54):
I've been there a few times over the years.
And what always is impressive to me is how large the biomass of the root balls are in thewater.
I mean, they're literally the size of like a mop.
Just sucking up all the nutrients.
It's incredible.
What sets Habitat System apart from other aquaponics facilities?
So at Habitat, we approached it a little bit differently.
(18:16):
We said, let's create an optimal facility for the fish and then we can add the plants aswell.
So really it's trying to create an optimal facility for both the plants and the fish.
There are two different types of facilities.
So one is called a coupled facility and one is decoupled.
(18:38):
To make some sense out of it, I'll just briefly talk about in a fish system, arecirculating aquaculture system.
You remove the solids, which is fish, feces and uneaten feed, and you have like a screenfilter to mechanically remove those.
And then you have a biological filter where you're growing bacteria and those bacteriaconsume the ammonia and they end up producing nitrate, which is the nitrogen that plants
(19:09):
are taking up.
And then you're stripping out carbon dioxide from the water and then you're disinfectingthe water and sending it back to the fish.
So on a coupled aquaponics facility, the plants
are really just one more filter in that series of filters.
(19:29):
So the plants would then take up that nitrate that the biological filter is producing, andthe water just keeps going through the system.
The water goes then back to the fish.
In a decoupled system, you have this recirculation system with all these filters for thefish.
And then you also have a recirculation system for the plants.
(19:53):
And you just
are sending the solids that you take out using the micro screen filter.
You move those solids over to a digester and then those nutrients become the mostavailable for the plants.
You separate out the solids then and you have a nice clear liquid that's high in nutrientsand you send that to the fish.
(20:18):
As you're stripping out the CO2, you can send that over to the plant room as well.
So you're reusing all of these things that are in the past have been wasted from a fishfacility and you can use all of those things.
Now the scale of habitat from the fish side, first of all, it works really, really well,but the scale by itself is too small, you know, really to be an independent business.
(20:45):
And that's where, you know, we're looking at the scale up of it.
But when I think about aquaponics and look at data from
lots of different research that's carried out in aquaponics on a variety of plants.
When you really get it dialed in, you can see quite a significant benefit in terms ofhealth and growth of the plant in these systems.
(21:09):
They are tricky to get dialed in, but once you do that, I think there are some prettysignificant benefits.
From my perspective, also on the aquaculture side, I'm always looking to
try to capture nutrients that are lost.
So I don't want to waste anything.
(21:30):
So we look at all of these nutrients in the feces, for example, that can be used in a lotof aquaculture.
There's no ability to capture those.
So in these aquaponic systems and in the system at Habitat, we can capture that.
And so once you've got it, then you have to figure out what's the best use for it.
(21:52):
You can use it directly in an aquaponic system, or you can capture it and use it in atraditional terrestrial agriculture system.
The location of the habitat facility is right in the middle of agriculture land.
So there is a lot of crop production that you can use the nutrients in that as well.
(22:15):
Good water quality is the key to lots of agriculture in plants and for sure with fish.
The system though can produce very good water quality.
Even if your incoming water isn't perfect, you have that ability to amend and filter it toget that water quality.
(22:35):
The reason that's possible is because such a high percentage of water that's filtered andrecirculated in the system, the actual new water, the makeup water, is a very small
percentage of the flow.
In the system at
habitat, we filter and reuse about 99.5 % of the water.
(22:59):
So the makeup water is just a tiny percentage of the flow, half a percent or so of theflow of the system.
So it really highlights the circular nature of the system, reusing waste and reusing waterto benefit both sides of the production.
You have to believe this kind of thing is one of the best solutions in the long run forthe environment.
and it just makes sense being where habitat is located.
(23:22):
The interior of BC is technically a desert.
In a desert, why would you use such a system that's water-based?
The reality is that the amount of water used in this system is far, far less than in othertypes of culture systems.
Significantly less water would be used in this system than, for example, a terrestrialsystem, or if you were growing the plants in
(23:48):
soil in any type of system, this will use much less water than that.
And you can have these systems pretty much anywhere and then focus on how you'llcontinually reduce water use.
Probably there's some evaporation of water, but nothing like the evaporation experiencewhen watering soil.
(24:11):
As scientific an operation that you can have, I've never seen anything like it out there.
Is this process better for the environment in general, or is it just more efficient?
Where it's at right now, it's not perfect in terms of we still use a large amount ofenergy being an indoor cultivator.
So we still have to power our lights and all our controls and circulate the water.
(24:33):
But what we are doing is being very water efficient and we're being very nitrogenefficient.
So in terms of needing to buy fertilizers or have fertilizer waste, we have both of thosekind of really dialed in as well as the CO2.
that's produced from the production of protein, which really all protein productioncreates CO2 output.
(24:55):
By growing next to plants, plants really like CO2.
So we can really kind of have a CO2 sink from that side and create as close to a carbonneutral protein source in salmon as we possibly can by being able to utilize that
symbiotic relationship.
From those aspects, it's really sustainable.
And then obviously we're always trying to improve and find that next level of how can wemake this more sustainable, more adoptable by other farmers and how can we see both the
(25:22):
salmon side of the business and the cultivation side of the business expand beyond evenwhat we're doing.
So that's a big focus of kind of the parent company or habitat life sciences side of thebusiness.
what effect does this type of farming have on the end product of salmon?
and the production of cannabis?
Well, it's a decoupled system.
(25:43):
So the production of salmon is very isolated to the protocols and procedures of how we runthe fish farm.
And we have that very dialed in and the quality of the product that comes out of that istop notch.
We have people all over who just love the product and want to see us grow more of theproduct, which is something that we're always looking to do.
Really what we're doing is harvesting the nutrient from the fish farm.
(26:05):
so
The cannabis side is in its own isolated one-way street of the water flowing to thecannabis side.
And then just as the water is consumed, we replace that and like I said, make thoseadjustments.
So there really isn't an interaction the other way.
So we have no effect from the fish to speak on the cannabis.
Some people ask, you ever get any like fish flavor through to the cannabis?
(26:27):
That's not really how that works.
It's just the nutrients that's been released into the water and same back to the salmon.
There's no interaction with the cannabis plants, so there's no potential for any sort ofcontamination.
guess what people are concerned about whether there's THC in the fish at all.
The reason that you would decouple a facility, even though it's a lot more complicated tobuild and operate, you can really dial in the parameters.
(26:56):
So if the fish and plants are living in the same water, then you have to have the same pHand the same
water quality parameters and perhaps you're sacrificing a little bit on both sides.
But if you decouple it, you can have optimal parameters for the fish on one side and thenoptimal parameters for the plants on the other side.
(27:22):
The salmon from Habitat is really impressive.
I've eaten fish my whole life and tried all the species of salmon.
And the quality of coho salmon that they produce is the best that I've had.
The flavor is beautiful, it's clean, just the right oil content.
(27:43):
The fish look beautiful, the pigments really nice.
It's a really impressive fish.
Unfortunately, they don't produce a huge amount of it.
So it's not something that's readily available around the market, unless you're therelocally, then it's available.
But it's something that Habitat's working on now.
How do we scale out the fish portion of it?
(28:05):
How do we expand that portion of it and really make that product more available across thecountry?
We sell at Farmgate so people can come pick it up from the farm.
And then we sell it through Fisherman's Market in Kamloops and then to certain selectchefs in the area.
How is the waste from the salmon processed and added to the cannabis to grow?
(28:26):
So there are eight fish tanks in the room.
Six of them are for production tanks and two are for finishing for the fish before youharvest them.
And these tanks are about 5,000 liters for each tank.
I don't know if that sounds big or small to people, but for aquaculture, that's prettysmall.
And we're growing fish in those tanks throughout their entire life cycle.
(28:50):
you'll see a lot of pipes leading out of that fish room.
The water from the fish go into another room, which we call the mineralization room.
First it runs through a drum filter, microscreen drum filter, where the solids areseparated out.
That's the feces and uneaten feed.
And then the water goes through a biological filter where it's just growing bacteria andthese bacteria are nitrifying bacteria.
(29:20):
They consume the ammonia in the water and produce nitrate.
The reason that you need that is because ammonia builds up and it can become toxic for thefish.
Then the water gets aerated.
So we're stripping out the carbon dioxide that the fish produce.
We're adding oxygen to the water.
We're adding ozone to the water as well for disinfection.
(29:41):
Then we pump that water back to the fish room, goes through a UV filter, and then througha chiller.
which is cooling the water down and then it goes back to the fish.
Now, beside that mineralization system in that same room, those solids, the feces anduneaten feed goes into a large tank, which is a digester.
(30:07):
So we have to aerate that and we're growing bacteria in there that are breaking down thatfeces and making the nutrients most available for the plants.
Then out of that digester, we separate the feces from the water, which just throughsettling and then that high nutrient clear liquid flows off of there and then gets pumped
(30:32):
to the plant rooms.
There are six plant rooms and each one is on its own small recirculation system.
So the water gets topped up from the mineralization system to each plant room and it
works really well.
Do you add any nutrients to that plant food or anything or is it just a hundred percentfrom the salmon?
(30:57):
Well, it's not a hundred percent from the salmon, but a hundred percent of the nitrogen,calcium and magnesium can come from the salmon side of the program.
So we capture the uneaten waste and manure and we use bacterial life aerobic digestion tobreak that down like essentially into a liquid compost that releases all the nutrients
into the water, breaks it down into
(31:18):
liquid soil then we filter that and treat that so it's clear water and doesn't have anyissues of clogging the hydroponic system and then that gets fed directly to our plants.
Now the whole time we've been talking about fertilizer the question has probably crossedyour mind.
Does fish poop smell?
Don't worry we asked Justin.
The answer is it depends.
(31:41):
For fish poop or probably any type of poop this
is going into a digester.
Now there are different types of digesters.
If you have an anaerobic digester, which means you don't have oxygen in it and you'remixing it and it's digesting, that works really well.
If you want to produce some methane, which you can then burn for biogas, and that smellsreally, really bad.
(32:08):
In this case at Habitat's facility, it's an aerobic digester.
So we're
adding air and oxygen to the digester.
And in that case, the poop doesn't smell bad.
It just smells like soil.
It's quite nice.
the industry right now, it's pretty difficult to get an organic certification forcannabis, but Habitat has that organic certification under the Aquatic Act.
(32:37):
How does that affect your retail and what does that mean to your brand?
There's a couple sides to that.
Yeah, we were the first cannabis company to be certified under a national standard.
So there's two standards, the terrestrial and the aquaculture standard.
And so we were able to get certified under the aquaculture standard.
A lot of what we built around our brand has been around the aquaponics and how we grow.
(32:59):
And we thought that the organic side of it would allow us to fetch a premium, but so farthat hasn't really been the case.
We've been subject to kind of the same price compressions and competitive environment thatexists in the Canadian cannabis space right now, as I'm sure you're.
feel as well.
Yes, yes buddy.
I feel your pain.
So most of the organic stuff actually the benefits come from the salmon side of thebusiness from the food.
(33:22):
People really value it in the food and didn't really seem to value it in the cannabis sideof the business which was quite an interesting finding for us.
But what it did do was it brought attention to us internationally and so we had peoplereach out to us from Germany, the UK and Australia and now the majority of our business is
in export.
(33:42):
and really around the story of aquaponics and how we grow in doing that.
So I think the benefit came into the fact that we were able to stand out and really be oneof the first craft producers exporting, which seems to be picking up steam now.
Well, having spent some time in Europe myself, I can imagine the organic certificationdefinitely pulls some weight.
(34:05):
Now, as far as your strains, why don't you run through the strains that you guys produce?
Yeah, our main flagship is the waffle bites.
That's our cake lineage, which is what our name was based off of.
had two main cultivars that stemmed into the breeding program that we had, that was cakeand caviar and the genetic bank that we had.
And so we just carried that forward into habitats endeavors.
(34:28):
Yeah, the most of what we've put out has come from that line.
So waffle bites is for the most part, the sole one that we're growing right now to justkeep up with the demand of export.
But we do have one that we run interchangeably called gunpowder milkshake, which is kindof the caviar diversion of the waffle ice.
It's a very trichome dense flour, a bit smaller buds, but has a very creamy mix with GMOkind of smell to it, which is where that gunpowder milkshake name came from.
(34:56):
smooth.
Both of them are very smooth and both are quite potent.
Like we test around the 25 to 28 % on those pretty regularly and more on the 28%.
range for the most part.
So right now we have a bank of a lot of other genetics, but we've just found that we'vebeen able to dial those in and service those two cultivars.
And we haven't had much capacity for the other ones quite at this time.
(35:20):
Blueberry Yum Yum was a fan favorite that we, I love that one and still dointerchangeably.
actually have a partner grower that's growing that now for us going out under a craft linethat separates a bit from our aquaponics line, but
People just love some of our genetics and we wanted to give them access to that.
So we partnered with some other craft growers and created the best of BC growers line onthat, that we're just working on launching.
(35:44):
So we'll be able to keep blueberry, yum yum rolling, maybe bring lemon loaf back.
yeah.
And then maybe introduce some new cultivars coming up here that I think people can getexcited about.
That's pretty exciting.
Now just on average, where do you think your terps fall?
On average, they're around 3%.
Yeah.
We've hit as high as 4 % and we do get sometimes around the 2.5 % but sometimes that comesfrom more of like the drying process.
(36:10):
I'm a big turps guy so I know cake and caviar.
The turps are present and it's pretty obvious what you guys are doing out there as far asquality is concerned.
Is cannabis produced using aquaponics better than other types of cannabis?
Does it differentiate itself a little bit that way?
(36:30):
There's lot of factors, as you know, that impact the quality of cannabis.
I think there's a few from growing in deep water culture.
Some of the areas that we really see a divergence is just the sheer rate of growth thathappens in the deep water culture.
So that initial three weeks of vegetative growth until we kind of do that initial defol isjust, it's insane.
(36:51):
It's really hard to keep up with.
So for our listeners, the defol, that's a defoliation.
You you kind of de-leaf it a little bit, maybe do some pruning and then that creates alittle bit of a growth spurt in the plants.
The bioavailability of the nutrients in the deep water culture, personally, I think issuperior than other types of growing mediums.
So that most likely has a little bit to do with it.
(37:13):
Yeah, it's direct.
They have no interference, so they can just take up whatever they want.
And so it really leads to rapid growth.
And then I think from there, the balance, your environmentals.
and managing kind of the whole range of what drives cannabis is really what drives thequality out of it.
And so I think apples to apples, if you have all that within deep water culture, then youcan grow really high quality cannabis.
(37:36):
And I think that it drives a bit of a more trichome dense, more terpene rich flower, whichfor most people equates to higher quality.
again, just growing an aquaponics or DWC doesn't mean that you'll end up with high qualitycannabis.
have to have the whole program with it.
Same thing with the salmon side.
Creating an environment and a farm where your animals are really healthy and happy is keyto having a high quality product that comes out the other end.
(38:02):
So everything we've done is to produce a high quality product.
And I think it's equivalent.
We can put it up against any sort of wild salmon that people bring forward and we have,and people have selected our salmon over wild salmon in a few different cases.
So that's been pretty fun to see.
using this method is like hitting two birds with one stone.
You produce food.
(38:23):
and cannabis in the same place, which is super efficient for the environment.
But what about the cost?
That's one of the main pillars, I would say, to sustainability, right?
If it's not economically sustainable, then it's not going to be sustainable long term.
And still in agriculture, you have to make money on what you're growing or else you're notgoing to be growing it for very long.
(38:44):
So the salmon side of the business requires scale like most food production does in orderfor it to be
really economical on its own standing, which is a big part of the project of what we'reworking on is how to go from the four tons of production that we're doing now with plans
to do the next farm, which is going to be about 300 metric tons of production.
(39:06):
That's been a really exciting project that we've been working on and something that kindof diverges a little bit away from cannabis because obviously we won't be scaling the
cannabis side of the business up to that same extent, but that gives us opportunities toincorporate the salmon side with other
types of agriculture, traditional types, whether that's field crops by irrigating in thesummer and getting the nitrogen into the soil or greenhouse production, things like that.
(39:31):
But from the cannabis side, like I think everybody in the space, we've had a fun few yearsof trying to find a balance and find a path to successful business in that.
And I think this year with the export coming online, last year we were just slightlyprofitable and this year we're going to be even more profitable.
things are
looking good on that side.
(39:51):
The cannabis side with what we're doing and just being able to differentiate has proven tobe a model that's working for us.
That's the name of the game.
To highlight the safety of consuming the salmon coming out of that environment, to me itsounds like it would be way more controlled than say a wild salmon just swimming around in
the ocean, who knows what they come across during that journey.
(40:14):
But in your situation, you have like an enclosed system.
You know exactly what's in the water.
You know exactly what they're eating.
And then of course, the end product.
I mean, you're pretty much producing like the highest level salmon that you might find insushi, for example.
Am I correct in assuming that?
Yeah.
A lot of salmon, whether you're buying it from the marine farms or wild salmon is you needto make sure that it's been frozen first to make sure there's no parasites or anything in
(40:40):
it.
Our fish, when it comes out of the finishing tank.
You can eat it right then and there.
There's no risk of any parasite because we have a controlled environment.
In terms of the water quality, we're always maintaining our water quality.
We know exactly what's in our water.
So any of the concerns around heavy metals, microplastics, things like that, that peopleare concerned about within our oceans, from our oceans being so polluted or to your point,
(41:02):
you don't know where those salmon swam or where their range is.
They can end up swimming by Fukushima and then coming back and spawning.
And then you're eating that salmon.
So
In terms of the quality, I think it's probably the highest and safest quality that youcould have in regards to traceability and food security.
So you get the highest quality salmon and you get the highest from smoking cake andcaviar.
(41:27):
Rudy and the key people there at Habitat have a really interesting vision.
And I really look forward to this next stage on the fish side on how
They're developing a platform which really they think will enable the launch or theemergence of land-based salmon production here in Canada and in other countries.
(41:50):
There's a reason why people like Rudy have a place in this industry.
He earned it.
It's a common denominator in everybody that's still around.
Resilience.
You've got to have resilience to stay in this game.
You've got to have the passion for cannabis even when it doesn't really make sense from afinancial standpoint.
It's a tricky business, but if you persevere and don't give up, it's kind of like sports.
(42:13):
The guys that want it the most are going to get it.
Aquaponics is just one way of growing cannabis, but there's probably a half a dozenequally good other ways to do it.
It's just a matter of picking your method and then perfecting it and mastering whatever itis.
Whether you're doing deep water culture, aquaponics, living soil, aeroponics, whatever,you just got to find one that works for you and then stick with it.
(42:39):
because it's an art.
Each one is an art form in itself.
That was Rudy Schiebel, CEO and founder of Habitat Life, and Justin Henry, Habitat'saquaculture advisor.
They're focused on responsible production, because we're using up resources like freshwater and energy and nutrients quickly, more than the global generation rate allows.
(43:03):
And in an extraction industry like fishing, we're taking much more than we need.
So in turn, we turn to people like Rudy and Justin to provide an alternative solutionthat'll take some of the pressure off.
and just let the earth do its thing.
And in the meantime, have some sustainably sourced salmon and cannabis.
See what else they're doing for their community and the environment by visiting themonline at habitat.life.
(43:32):
The podcast with Ross Rabliotti is an everything podcasts production in partnership withRIPCO.pro.
The opinions expressed in this podcast are not necessarily the views of the podcast teamor our partners.
This show is intended for a 19 plus audience.
Our host is Ross Rabliotti, showrunner Karen Hibashi, our writers Jordan Wong and oursound engineers John Massicar.
(43:56):
I'm Don Schafer.
Thanks for listening to the podcast, the authority on cannabis innovation and culture.
And don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcast.
Another Everything Podcast production.
Visit everythingpodcast.com, a division of Patterson Media.
Subscribe wherever you get your podcast.
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