October 15, 2025 • 36 mins
Power problems don’t announce themselves—they show up as dead fans, stressed birds, and energy bills that creep higher every month. We invited superintendent electrician Cody Pommer of Interstates to walk through the electrical decisions that quietly decide whether a poultry site runs smooth for years or limps from fix to fix. Together, we unpack where farms get into trouble—moisture, dust, untrained panel work—and the simple, proven steps that keep people safe and equipment alive: correct NEMA ratings, low-point drains, GFCI protection, better cable selection, and a disciplined maintenance plan.
Cody breaks down why electrical rooms pay back in longevity and safety, and why grounding and bonding are non-negotiable in wet, high-dust environments. We dig into smart controls and VFDs that fine-tune ventilation and lighting, explore modern fire detection with aspirating systems, and call out the shortcuts that cost the most—skipping VFD-rated cable, ignoring voltage drop on long runs, and leaving new equipment to soak in the weather. We also talk resilience: generator strategies that share load across houses, peak-shaving to tame demand charges, and design choices that make future add-ons cheap rather than painful.
Looking ahead, we connect the dots between reliable power and better data. AI is accelerating everything from egg counting accuracy to anomaly detection and design workflows, but it needs clean signals and thoughtful integration to shine. For smaller and mid-size barns, we highlight accessible control options that unify ventilation, feed, and lighting with mobile monitoring—practical tools that deliver immediate clarity and long-term savings.
If you care about flock health, uptime, and a utility bill that doesn’t spike when the weather does, this conversation is your blueprint. Subscribe, share with a producer who needs a safer setup, and leave a review with your top electrical headache—we’ll tackle it in a future show.
Hosted by Brandon Mulnix - Director of Commercial Accounts - Prism Controls
The Poultry Leadership Podcast is only possible because of its sponsor, Prism Controls
Find out more about them at www.prismcontrols.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brandon Mulnix (00:28):
Welcome to the Poultry Leadership Podcast.
I'm your host, Brandon Mulnix.
And today, I believe I have ashocking episode.
I am going to do my best tointerview this guest in a way
that really connects the dots ona lot of things, including it
may turn the light on in areasin your world that you never
expected.
Because on the podcast today, Ihave Cody Pommer from
(00:51):
Interstate Electrical.
And I'm super excited.
I've worked with Cody a lotover the years on different
projects.
And when it comes to electricalsafety, this is the guy.
So Cody, welcome to the show.
Hey, hi, Brandon.
Thanks for having me here.
Hey, Cody, can you introduceyourself to the audience?
Tell them a little bit aboutyour background and kind of just
who Cody is.
Cody Pommer (01:11):
Yeah.
As Brandon said, I'm asuperintendent for interstates.
I worked here for a little over12 years now.
So my roles as asuperintendent, I get to oversee
the electrical installations onprojects and just make sure
that the safety, quality, andproductivity fits and aligns
with interstate standards.
I kind of help with some of theinitial design on projects and
(01:34):
that layout and what that reallyis, is what the installation
means and methods, what's itlook like, you know, as a
finished project when we startenvisioning that stuff.
Um I also work hand in handwith owners, general
contractors, other trades, um,people such as yourself, just uh
remove obstacles and make surethat the the projects are done
(01:57):
on time and as smoothly aspossible, I guess.
Brandon Mulnix (02:00):
Well, like any good project manager, it's got
to be on time and on budget,right?
That's right.
We do our best.
So it always happens that way.
On time, on budget.
Those are great things.
So who's Cody when you're notworking?
Cody Pommer (02:13):
Yeah, so uh I got a wife and four kids, got one
left in high school, so we spenta lot of time either at
sporting events or last weekendwe were hunting down homecoming
dresses, and yeah, we just enjoythe outdoors.
We kids like boating, and mywife and I enjoy it and do some
(02:33):
camping and yeah, some stufflike that.
Brandon Mulnix (02:36):
Well, we're at similar points in life because I
have one more left.
He's senior year.
You don't want to miss any ofthose activities for sure.
So as we get going, I need toask: are there any disclaimers
about anything that we're gonnashare today coming from
interstates or anything likethat?
Cody Pommer (02:52):
Yeah, I'm an electrician by trade, not an
electrical engineer, so I'll domy best to answer any questions
or topics that we want to cover.
Brandon Mulnix (02:58):
So all right.
From the legal side, I'll sayanything you hear on this
podcast, please seek out theprofessional assistance and
electrician.
We don't want you to getshocked or hurt if we say
anything that could lead you toencourage you to do something
silly like that.
So I just want to put that outthere so nobody gets hurt.
So, Cody, what's the number onereason that somebody's gonna
(03:20):
call you?
Cody Pommer (03:21):
I would say just uh getting a professional opinion,
right?
I mean, we're talking aboutother farms or people starting
up a farm, it's working throughthat design phase, getting input
on what what's worked in thepast, what hasn't worked, the
do's and don'ts, uh just gettinga feel for for what you need as
(03:41):
a farm, I guess, you know, andthe size and what we can do to
help bring that imagination tofruition, you know.
Brandon Mulnix (03:47):
Yeah, it's interesting as I've been able to
experience a number of years inthe industry to see the the
sizes of these farms, barns,whatever you want to call them,
houses, continually grow, takeshape.
They're not your averagebackyard barn anymore.
And so as you do this, I wantto talk about if I'm a farmer
(04:09):
and I say, hey, you know, I hearabout this interstates thing,
but I I think I can do theelectrical myself.
What's a piece of advice you'regonna give me as I'm the farmer
and I'm trying to do theelectrical myself?
Absolutely not.
Cody Pommer (04:22):
Um if you if you want a site that's gonna have
some longevity, right?
And and fit code and um it'sgonna be safe and and run well,
I I would suggest that you donot do that.
Brandon Mulnix (04:36):
Well, let's talk about safety.
As you look across everythingthat's going on in in the
barnyard, the projects you'veworked on, what are the most
common electrical hazards thatyou've encountered on poultry
farms?
Cody Pommer (04:48):
Yeah, that's a good question.
There are a few differentthings.
I'd say one of them is probablyuntrained staff trying to fix
electrical equipment or work inpanels, and some of them guys
are just there, it might beovernight or whatever, trying to
make sure stuff's runningcorrectly and something breaks
down.
But what you'll tend to seesometimes, guys that aren't
(05:08):
qualified doing that, is maybethey leave some loose
connections or not getting arelay put back in where it needs
to get put back into, orsearching through some wiring
and cut some zip ties, and thenthe zip ties don't get put back
in there, and then it looks lessdesirable, I guess.
Why do looks matter when itcomes to electrical panels?
Well, the looks are importantto me for sure, but I'd say the
(05:31):
the safety side of it, right, iswhen we start getting wiring
hanging out of wireways andpanduits and places that are
supposed to contain the wire,right?
It just creates another hazardwith stuff hanging out there.
Probably another one of thesefacilities is just water or
moisture.
You know, the water is usuallypart of their cleaning, you
know, of the facility, trying tokeep that clean, or with
(05:53):
keeping airflow in the barns inthe winter times, you'll see a
lot of that warm air meeting thecold air outside, yeah, a lot
of freezing and rethawing attimes.
I mean, just dust and debris.
It's these birds, they create alot of dust and debris, and
even the best maintained sites,you're still gonna see a lot of
that.
Brandon Mulnix (06:12):
You mean not everybody's vacuuming out their
electrical panels, their motorpanels, their control panels?
Cody Pommer (06:17):
I would say most are trying to keep up with it,
but even that, you know, like Isaid, even some of the best
ones, it's just hard to keep upwith that amount of dust.
Brandon Mulnix (06:26):
Okay, you mentioned a number of different
hazards.
What are some of the thingsthat you know you've seen or
done to help mitigate some ofthose issues?
Cody Pommer (06:34):
Yeah, so like the water, we're gonna use
watertight fittings, making surewe're using the correct NEMA
ratings on panels and equipment.
So it's seal, you know, it'sgonna be gasketed and seal out
that that water and moisture.
Interstates has a standard ofmaking sure we put in low point
drains so that we put a drain atthe lowest point, say in the
(06:54):
conduit system or the wiring tomake sure that if there is
moisture gets in the conduitsystem, it's gonna drain away
from the electrical componentsand some of that stuff.
Another way is making sure thatwe're using GFCI protection,
which is a ground fault circuitinterrupter.
Basically, this is gonnaprotect against electric shock,
you know, and that compares thecurrent flowing in and the
(07:16):
current current flowing out.
As soon as that detects a lossof that current, which would be
through either a ground fault orthrough a person, it's gonna
trip that circuit, you know.
So that's a big, big help inthe industry.
Talking about dust and debris,I'd just say just regular
preventative maintenance andcleaning and just having that
scheduled sealing of electricrooms the best you can.
(07:39):
If we got wall penetrations oranything like that, sealing that
with fire pillows or fire culk,and you know, you seal those up
the best you can, it's gonnahelp a ton, but you're still
gonna get some dust in there.
Brandon Mulnix (07:50):
So as these barns have continued to evolve,
a lot of times you'll get into aremodel where they didn't have
an electrical room, they didn'thave their equipment protected.
Speak to the value propositionof an electrical room or
somewhere where that electricalequipment is not out in the
(08:12):
day-to-day.
Cody Pommer (08:13):
Yeah, I mean, there's still occasionally
panels that need to go outwithin the space that contain
the birds.
If you look at those incomparison to somewhere, you
know, where it's contained in anelectrical room, it's a night
and day difference.
There's it's gonna affect, Ithink in the end, it's gonna
affect the longevity of it,right?
If especially if you're talkingabout like VFDs, you know, they
(08:36):
need air flow, it's gonna pullin dust as the fans kick on
there.
Yeah, I'd say the longevity ofyour electrical equipment is
really the biggest effector.
And then not to mention therisk of fire, right?
If you're piling up dust onelectrical components, stuff
gets hotter, risk of explosions,that type of stuff.
Brandon Mulnix (08:56):
It's interesting because as houses continue to,
I'm gonna say, age, there'scertain things that don't
particularly age well in houses,and it seems to be the
forgotten thing of grounding.
Can you talk a little bit aboutwhat proper grounding looks
like and why that's a majorissue in, I'm gonna say more
(09:16):
aged houses?
Cody Pommer (09:17):
Yeah, and and yeah, grounding is gonna be a big
deal in any facility, but Iwould also say especially
important in these poultryfacilities due to the amount of
water and moisture, right, thatwe talked about a little bit
ago.
What this is gonna do, it'sgonna prevent shock to people
and and the birds themselves, orI guess you know, whatever type
(09:40):
of ag facility you're at.
It's gonna make sure thatnormally non-energized metal
parts don't become energized ifthey would inadvertently become
come in contact with anenergized wire, right?
It's gonna trip thatovercurrent protection and open
that circuit so it protects theanimals and people, right?
Um couple other things it canhelp prevent stray voltages,
(10:04):
right?
So it'll safely drain thesestray voltages to ground.
Um I'd say birds or any animalscan be sensitive to those
really small leakage voltage orcurrents, and proper grounding
and bonding is gonna just takethat stuff to ground.
If they're if they're sensingthem stray voltages and
currents, it could affect, Iwould say, productivity or um
(10:26):
just the way they're behaving,clearing those short circuits or
ground faults.
Yeah, grounding is gonna bevery big, like I said, in any
facility, but especially thesepoultry facilities.
Brandon Mulnix (10:39):
One thing that we found I get to help with the
tech support and watching allthe calls come in, grounding
seems to be one of the numberone culprits of a lot of the
technology, such as controllers,VS drives, uh, any type of
artifact.
It seems to be the factor thatends up being the solution
(10:59):
because over time, just the thecorrosion that happens, um
something gets bumped, and oh,that's just a ground wire, no
big deal.
And it came to find out thatwas preventing noise coming back
through or way for the noise toget out.
Whatever reason, things aredesigned with grounding for a
reason.
In fact, just this week on alow voltage system, we realized,
hey, you know what, let's trygrounding some things to see um
(11:23):
how that makes a big differencein the system.
Just because we assume that theelectrical is going to work as
designed, but over time, yeah,those are just some of the
problems that we we see in thethe high-tech stuff, I guess.
Cody Pommer (11:35):
Yeah, that's what I was just gonna say.
It seems like too, as atechnology advances, right,
these things are becoming moresensitive to that noise and and
them type of things we'retalking about.
Brandon Mulnix (11:46):
Yeah, things aren't just motor starter
switches, maybe a few potswitches, maybe if you know
whether it's all literallycomputers, even a VS drive has a
you know logic and and smartsin it that need that needs to be
treated like a computer.
Yep.
Speaking of like VS drives andthings like that, from your
perspective, how are smartcontrol systems being used to
(12:09):
manage ventilation, temperature,and lighting?
And what electricalconsiderations do these systems
require?
Cody Pommer (12:15):
In my opinion, they're being used to provide,
you know, these optimal type ofgrowing conditions, right?
They're able to fine-tune eacheach barn or each floor based
off of the data that they'regetting, or compared to um, I
feel like in the past, you know,these systems just energy
(12:36):
consumption regulation now atthis point, you know, like now
they're they're running at loweror higher RPMs, say fans are
based off the temperature withwithin certain locations within
each floor, you know, ratherthan fans running at full
voltage all the time, evenaccurately counting eggs, right?
(12:57):
Like Prism's new egg countingsystem is getting more uh
technological and able to dobetter counts on that.
Considerations, I would say, isum just integration.
Can this technology easily bemodified to the current system
that that they have?
Proper training of their staffon the control systems, you
(13:18):
know, especially if you'readding something new, making
sure that your staffingunderstands how this stuff
operates and works and issupposed to work.
Reliability, right?
Is it gonna stand up to theharsh environments of the of
some of these barns?
And then is the technologygonna be there in five years?
You know, we see some of thattoo, where the technology just
isn't there five years later.
Brandon Mulnix (13:38):
So thankfully, our company is still supporting
40-year-old product.
Absolutely.
And it's not easy, but when youbuy a chicken barn, the last
thing you want to do is fiveyears in, have to start
replacing the technology pieceof it.
You kind of want itfuture-proofed, and and that's
that's a big deal, big deal forany type of business because
technology does change, it doesevolve.
(14:00):
You mentioned a couple ofreally big factors like
electrical consumption, energyusage.
If you can save just a littlebit every day at these farms,
it's a big deal at the end ofthe year on the bottom line for
these farmers.
And so that's a that's a hugething.
So some of the advancementsthat you've seen just in your
(14:20):
your career when it comes to youknow, electrical components and
wiring, you know, code.
What are some of the newerthings that have come out that
you really said, hey, this was areal win for electricians or
real win for farmers?
Cody Pommer (14:35):
Yeah, uh just kind of new technology you're saying
wise.
Brandon Mulnix (14:39):
Yeah, just just even within the electrical
industry, you know, you don'tthink that copper wire changes
much, but you know, there's codethat has come out and it
changed from white 13 1430 to or14.2 to yellow 14.2, and I
don't even know why, buttechnology has evolved in the
wire, evolved in what you do.
What are some of the wins forthe electricians out there?
Cody Pommer (15:00):
Yeah, if you don't talk specifically for
electricians, probably won't betoo interesting to your
audience.
But like Southwire products,they come out with a new simple
wire that their claim to fame isum no lubrication is needed,
and they actually recommend thatyou don't put lubrication on
the wire because of this newtechnology and the slick coating
that they use on the outerjacket of their wiring.
(15:22):
That's relatively new, prettycool.
I'd say in the industry, I'dsay one thing we're seeing
that's getting to be big is firedetection, right?
Within within these barns.
Um I know Prism themselvesoffers an awesome product with
their um Vesda units and thermsystem, and we're also seeing uh
we're monitoring for firedetection and then triggering
(15:44):
doors to keep stuff fromspreading into other parts of
the facility or other buildings.
Lighting systems, I would say,is one.
You know, some of the olderolder barns is almost just a
plain Jane incandescentlighting, and it's getting to be
LED systems where we'rechanging, changing the color and
the hue of the light, and thetensity, and monitoring that
(16:06):
density, and able to do somepretty cool things there and see
how these birds are reacting tothat and adjusting that light
and getting more product, youknow.
And another thing, I guess Ihaven't really been around it
yet, but been hearing about isuh an additional lighting
system.
It works off of ionization andit's supposed to like clean the
(16:28):
air, the air quality.
So that's pretty cool.
I'd like to see see some moreof that or hear more about that
in the future.
Brandon Mulnix (16:35):
Yeah, we've been introduced to a lot of air
scrubbers this year, a lot offolks that are re-capturing the
heat, like heat exchangers, butalso in that heat exchange is
filtering the air, bringing itback in, um, using it, you know,
filtering it for the out, butalso filtering it to come back
in.
And that helps remove the dust,remove the some pneumonia,
capture that, especially asregulations.
(16:56):
You know, they change a lotwith administrations in the
White House.
Right now, some of those havenot moved forward.
Some of the threats of havingto monitor your air coming out
of your barns, but we've seen alot of that and a lot of
conversations around that.
Yeah, recapturing that energytoo, that heat.
So in the wintertime, you'renot your birds aren't having to
work as hard to keep warmbecause the air's coming back in
(17:18):
already warm.
It's kind of cool, right?
All right, because you're anelectrician, because you've been
in the barns, I kind of came upwith this section as we're not
going to believe that thisactually happened section.
And I gave you some time tokind of think about these, you
know, what are some of thethings that you've seen?
But I want to ask this questionwhat's some of the most
ridiculous electrical setups andshortcuts that you've seen on
(17:41):
the poultry farm?
It's probably the shortcutside.
Cody Pommer (17:44):
Yeah, and I'll go through them and what it is,
it's just it's not good for forthe consumer or the farms,
right?
The owners, it's not good forthe longevity of the equipment.
And it's also hard for us as anelectrical contractor, right?
If we're taking these extrasteps to do it right, and other
people are not, and then you'renot really comparing apples to
(18:04):
apples in a bid either, right?
So if the owner's looking atour bid compared to another
person's bid, it's like, well,why are you so much higher?
You know, and where where thatcomes into play is we're seeing
when we have a lot of VFD loads,other contractors are not using
VFD cable, and that'sdefinitely something that we
want to be doing.
This could cause problems withuh premature wire insulation
(18:26):
breakdown, uh, motor and cablefailure, harmonics like we were
talking about earlier, voltagespike issues.
The other thing I'd say ispretty common, it's tough uh all
the way around again.
Same kind of issues is notdoing voltage drop calculations.
They might be running 12 and 14gauge wire to stuff that for
(18:48):
doing the proper voltage dropcalculations should be like a
number eight wire.
Yeah, if it was 50 feet away,you know, it might be able to be
that 12 or 14 gauge wire.
But when you're talking aboutsome of these barns that are
getting to be three, four, fivehundred feet long, we really
need to pay attention to thosevoltage drop calcs, and it's
gonna change that sizing ofwire.
And when you're talking aboutthe amount of wire that goes
(19:10):
into these barns, that thatchanges pricing dramatically,
right?
But then also the longevity ofequipment as well, you know, and
risk of wire heating up andthat type of stuff.
Brandon Mulnix (19:23):
Oh, I'm sure that stuff can really add up.
And I say that just based onyou know understanding of the DC
side of things a little bitmore of the low voltage stuff.
And hey, we can run this catfive cable 600 feet.
No, you can't, it's not gonnawork.
And we're I mean, we're our ownworst enemy at times where left
hand doesn't talk to the righthand, and we're like, hmm, maybe
(19:45):
we should upsize that wire alittle bit for that direct
current thing, because I thinkthat's the problem.
So it definitely costs money atthe end.
It might work at the beginning,but eventually that wire's
gonna wear out, and or you know,if you saw an undersized wire
and there might be a fire, ofcourse, the mice love to chew on
that stuff, and any additionalresistance that comes from their
(20:05):
effort is gonna cause problems,I'm sure.
Yeah.
Can you share a story ofsomething that when it first
came in, you thought it was apretty minor issue, but it led
to something really bad.
Cody Pommer (20:18):
I wouldn't say like catastrophic in the fact that
like started a fire or anythinglike that, but I've seen
definitely seen some issue inthe past where the storage of
material before it gets actuallyinstalled, or it's not getting,
you know, electricalequipment's not getting
installed under a roof or a dryplace, and you start getting
some moisture and wetness insideof stuff that shouldn't have it
(20:41):
in there before it's even beeninstalled or commissioned.
You may have brand new motorsthat just aren't working.
And then that gets into thebattle of you know, is this uh
turning this to the vendor?
What do you what do you do?
That I would say yes, that'sthat's probably one big thing
that might seem pretty minor,but when you're talking about
hundreds and hundreds of fans orhundreds of whatever feed
(21:02):
motors, whatever it may be, justif we're gonna store it
outside, uh not in a dry place,yeah, make sure it's rated for
that, I guess.
Brandon Mulnix (21:10):
You are speaking to one of the biggest
challenges I had when I firstgot into this industry is
finding pallets worth of controlequipment out in the middle of
a field completely during amonsoon.
And it's like, yep, I betchathe life of this product is not
gonna last very long.
(21:30):
Sure enough, it didn't.
Cody Pommer (21:33):
So it definitely creates a problem.
Brandon Mulnix (21:37):
What's the most common do-it-yourself fix that
you see on the farm?
Cody Pommer (21:43):
My biggest pet peeve is wire nuts, like wire
nuts and like raceway, likepanduat panels or anything like
that.
Whether a wire got eitherdamaged or something changed
within the control system and itdoesn't go to a relay anymore
or something, but somebody willjust take two wires and pop a
wire nut on it.
That drives me nuts.
You're just creating a pointwhere something could easily
(22:05):
come apart and and causeproblems for everybody, a huge
headache that could easily beavoided.
I'd say if if you run in thosesituations, either A, re-pull
it, and if you can't re-pull it,use an irreversible crimp.
So, like interstates will useuh what's called a Buchanan
crimp.
You cannot undo it withoutphysically cutting it apart.
Brandon Mulnix (22:26):
So you're going so much deeper than I thought
you'd go.
I figured you'd see a lot ofblack tape on instead of wire
nuts on those on those wires.
I'm glad that you don't I don'treally see that.
So you haven't done enoughremodel work.
Even at my house, I found that100-year-old house, and that's
(22:47):
what I found for for wire nutsin most of the out most of the
boxes.
Oh wow.
I have seen that in residentialuh yeah, black tape wire nuts.
All right, future of poultryelectrical.
How can farmers today preparethemselves for future technology
(23:08):
advancements?
Cody Pommer (23:10):
I would say getting to the professionals, right?
Talking with the prisms andtalking with the interstates and
getting them involved and andfiguring out how to evolve their
systems and work as a team toto get those advanced and as
they feel necessary, right?
What do we want to do here andand work together?
How can we make this happen,right?
(23:31):
So the other thing I would sayis just discussing potential
changes early on in a project.
Say we're starting to build anew facility, and you think
maybe two years down the roadyou might make this change or
you or might want to add this.
There's stuff that we can doearly on that be little to no
cost or much easier, you know,plan for that ahead of time
during the design phase toreduce rework and cost of
(23:53):
escalation.
Brandon Mulnix (23:54):
You know, I'm in complete agreement.
As the guy who usually getscalled last on the project, very
little opportunity even to say,hey, what's the future?
How many houses are you gonnado?
What's the site hold?
All these questions, and thengo, yeah, we we designed exactly
what you asked for.
Yeah, then the next quote comesin, and the next quote comes in
and the next quote, and you'relike, Yeah, we would have
(24:15):
probably designed a littledifferent than that.
Cody Pommer (24:18):
Yeah, absolutely.
And it like I said, if we knowup front, it'd be very little to
know.
Sometimes I'm out in might noteven be any cost difference, you
know, being prepared for stuffin the future.
Brandon Mulnix (24:30):
Oh, yeah.
I mean, that that's a big one.
So I'm new to farming industry.
I'm new, I want to I want tobuild a farm.
You've already talked about afew things.
Is there anything else that youwould share with me if you were
the first person I called afterI was able to um lock up my
contract and get some birds,birds on order and said, hey,
(24:52):
I'm gonna I'm gonna get intothis whole poultry thing.
Cody, what what advice wouldyou have for me?
Cody Pommer (24:56):
I would absolutely get a hold of me and uh we'd
talk with our engineering, butprobably one of the biggest
things we haven't discussed,right, is redundancy,
redundancy, redundancy.
Like what happens if we losepower, you know, utility power.
You know, we're talking backupgenerators, we're talking any of
that type of stuff.
The better we can be preparedfor the unexpected, the better
(25:17):
off we're gonna be if ifsomething does happen that's not
planned.
Just ensuring, we talked aboutit, touched on a little bit,
ensuring that we have a goodmaintenance schedule.
If you're unsure what a goodmaintenance schedule looks like
or what that should entail,contact the prisms, contact the
interstates, lean on yourelectrical contractor to help
you come up with that if you'rehaving trouble with that.
(25:38):
Electrical safety-wise, stayingcurrent on your arc flash
studies and labeling as you addnew loads and stuff like that.
I want to make sure that we'rekeeping up with that.
For one, we need to do that byby NFPA, right?
Just have that labeling onthere.
But that's gonna ensure thatyour staff knows the proper PPE
when they're getting inside thisequipment, their safe working
distances and boundaries andincident available energy that's
(26:00):
available at each piece ofequipment.
Another thing that's gonna saveyou is peak demand, right?
Uh farms can see big issuesduring the summertime with their
power consumption wheneverybody's trying to run their
air conditioners and and allthat at the same time.
They could hit you at a peakdemand charge, the utility
company could.
And there's ways to combat thatthat we can work through at
(26:21):
engineering, and you know,whether it's something simple
like peak shaving, we call peakshaving, but essentially it's
just turning off non-criticalloads during those when it might
be five-hour windows during theday where they're gonna hit you
with that extra cost for thoseover peak demand charges,
running on generator power,maybe during those times, or
they're starting to get intoeven systems of solar and
(26:44):
battery bank options and stufflike that.
There's solar there's somethings that it could do that,
yes, there's some cost involvedthere, but over time it's gonna
save you money with those peakdemand charges with the utility
company.
Brandon Mulnix (26:55):
That's a lot of good information.
That is a lot of goodinformation for a new farmer.
In fact, I I learned somethingthere new myself about a lot of
that peak energy stuff and thetechnology around automating
that.
It's not like you want to goout and flip the peak energy
switch, and you know, that'swhat you pay somebody to do
every day.
But having the system that'ssmart enough to be able to go,
(27:16):
hey, you know, this is what wecan do.
I know on one of the projectsthat we worked on, it was shared
generators.
Instead of having one generatorper house, you guys were able
to kind of put that load over anumber of houses.
Can you speak to that at all?
Cody Pommer (27:30):
Yeah, so the idea is to more redundancy, like we
talked about.
So rather than relying on onegenerator or two generators, we
got four or five generators peryou know, four four buildings.
You got more redundancy there,you got uh less wear and tear on
each generator, right?
And then yeah, so likebasically every one would have
(27:52):
an extra generator.
So even if one broke down, youcould still run.
And then it did have the smartcapabilities to to switch
between them and try to keep thehours even on those, and that
was a cat product, so so far, sogood.
Brandon Mulnix (28:06):
It's amazing how many other industries have
provided really good ideas andtechnology for the poultry
industry, whether it's eggproduction, broilers, turkeys, a
lot of good, good informationcoming from those other
industrial complexes, so tospeak, because you're wiring
more towards what I'm gonna callindustrial standards versus
(28:28):
farm standards, if I'm notmistaken.
Is that correct?
Cody Pommer (28:31):
Yep, I would say interstates uh probably more
more heavy in the the industrialand have our heavy commercial
side.
No pun intended, but not to putall of our eggs in one basket,
you know, trying to be a littlemore diverse and diversifying
some in what we do.
Brandon Mulnix (28:47):
So any last advice for the poultry industry?
Cody Pommer (28:51):
I guess I had a question for for you.
I want to pick your brain alittle bit, yeah, no problem.
Um, so like one hot topic, itseems like lately is AI, right?
And I think it's gonna changeevery industry, but I also see
this being uh part of ag, right?
And you're kind of seeing thatlike we talked about earlier in
Prism's egg counting system andhow it's seeing and monitoring
(29:14):
eggs, and it might have an emptyshell go by or a bolt go by on
the on the egg belt, and it'sstarting to recognize that and
notice what's an egg and what'snot.
How do you see AI affecting theag industry?
You is there anything else thatyou see coming down the
pipeline where that could beadvantageous for us?
Brandon Mulnix (29:32):
Oh, AI is absolutely going to change this
industry.
The way producers raise theirbirds by the data that's
produced currently in the barnsand being able to take systems
that don't currently talk toeach other, bring them together
to see events, to see weatherpatterns, to see feed.
(29:53):
Like, hey, we had this vendor afeed, and here's the flock of
the birds, and just being ableto pull that data and really
Look at it in ways that you or Icould never see.
But then to be able to takethat and start to really dive
into those energy topics, diveinto what's taking my people the
most time and really startingto understand business cases of
(30:16):
different things that they'redoing.
And that's just on the easyside.
As you start to really get intoautomation and be able to run
your chicken house with muchbetter egg flow, I know our next
product is built with AI inmind.
And we're talking aboutartificial intelligence in this
industry.
A lot of people, when they talkabout AI in this industry, it's
about, you know, high path AI.
(30:38):
For this one, I have to be veryclear.
As the products get built, theyhave to engage this
future-proof mentality ofinformation and data because
that business intelligence ismoving so fast.
Your team has to be aware ofit.
If they're not using it everyday already, whether it's in
(30:58):
their emails, whether it's insummarizing things, reviewing
contracts, whether it's um justlooking and using the tools that
are available out there now tograsp that future-proof
mentality of AI, it's it's it'sgoing to take you a little bit
to catch up.
And there are a lot, I'm seeingit all over the industry.
From the Poultry Tech Summitcoming up here in a couple of
(31:19):
weeks, they have this huge pushabout AI and how it's working on
genetics, feed, and being ableto process things that you or I,
I mean, we're we're not in thatrealm, anyways, but humans just
can't process enough.
It's also coming in visionsystems that are pigs are able
to weigh their pigs via cameras.
(31:40):
What's that look like forbirds?
Cattle, they're able toidentify diseases in cattle from
the way the cattle are actingwith air sampling and their
movements and what they'redoing.
The technology is so faradvancing so fast.
And in an industry that lovesto get the most out of their
(32:01):
capital investments, it's hardto make that change, but you
have to make that change whereyou can, whether that's in the
control systems, whether that'sin the business practices,
whether that's in HR, wherever,you have to get the efficiencies
you can get out of it.
Um, and there's a balance.
There's always the human needto process the information that
(32:25):
it's giving you because it cangive you some not so good
information, but the more youuse it, the more comfortable you
get with it, and the moreyou're able to start envisioning
how it can change what you'redoing today.
And so, really, uh it'sexciting times.
It's cool to see the producersout there that are engaged fully
in it and actually have chieftechnical officers or chief um
(32:49):
AI officers or data officers.
And typically it isn't thatnext generation of folks coming
through because you know theydon't want to necessarily work
in the barn anymore, they wantto evolve their business or
their family farm a little bit.
And so that's where we'regetting to see it in the
different generations of thefamilies.
And it even got brought up atthe North Central Poultry
Association this week.
Um, there was a couplequestions to the senior leader
(33:12):
group, is what I'm gonna callthem.
And they talked about using AIum even at the retirement age
and how important that is tograsp that.
So it was cool, and I thinkit's it's really gonna it's
gonna affect you and I a lotmore.
Cody Pommer (33:28):
Absolutely.
I'm excited to see what thenext 10 years looks like.
You know, it's just gonna makeus, I think, leaner and more
efficient and better, andhopefully make our lives easier
and just yeah, all around makeeverything.
Brandon Mulnix (33:41):
I was introduced to an MIT study, and I don't
have the exact article in frontof me, but it talked about this
engineering firm that had thisbuilding they were gonna have to
build, and they estimated itwas gonna take like 800 man days
to be able to engineer this,and they ended up engineering it
in hours via AI, and all theydid was take all their current
(34:04):
designs and stuff they had andfed it into their their machine,
and and then it it popped outthis drawing, and then all they
did was have to critique it, andit was pretty darn accurate.
But those are the kind ofthings that it makes sense for.
Like I've got all of thesedesigns that are known, they're
factual, these are the thingsthat make it happen.
(34:26):
Now respit that out with thisdesign and this features.
Man, for electrical engineeringdrawings, especially you're
talking your panel drawings.
You know, I know you guys dosome really good work there, but
it's like it's gonna, those arethe things that are gonna be
the engineer's gonna be spendingmore time on actually solving
some other problems than doingthe day-to-day kind of work.
Cody Pommer (34:49):
Yep.
Brandon Mulnix (34:50):
So absolutely less data entry, hopefully.
So hopefully.
All right.
Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna wrapthis thing up.
I'm gonna pop the breaker onthis show.
And I can't go, we've talked alittle bit about prism controls
throughout, but I really have totalk a little bit more about
(35:11):
them today.
As the industry continues toevolve, they've evolved.
With this, they've got aproduct that they offer called
ECO.
It is designed for these smalland medium barns, these pasture
free-range barns that don'trequire the I'm gonna say
customization of a controlthree, but they really want the
(35:33):
optimal controls for itsventilation, feed, lighting, and
also they want a place thatthey can monitor their data and
be able to change theirlighting, and they want all that
at the touch of their phone.
So Eco is a product that wehave been excited to roll out
this last year, and we want tomake sure that you're all aware
(35:54):
of it.
So if you are a small to mediumbarn, and I'm gonna say where
you're gonna probably be outthere looking for an automated
controller instead of just athermostat on the wall or a few
switches, and you want that toknow what's going on in your
barn day to day, hour by hour,reach out to PrismControls at
PrismControls.com, connect witha sales um member on there, and
(36:17):
they will be more than happy tohelp you out.
So, Cody, thank you for being aguest on the show.
I look forward to futureconversations about AI and
electrical and all of that.
Thank you.
Cody Pommer (36:29):
Awesome.
Thanks for having me, Brandon.
Yeah.
Brandon Mulnix (36:32):
All right, listeners, have a great day.
Welcome to the Poultry Leadership Podcast.
I'm your host, Brandon Mulnix.
And today, I believe I have ashocking episode.
I am going to do my best tointerview this guest in a way
that really connects the dots ona lot of things, including it
may turn the light on in areasin your world that you never
expected.
Because on the podcast today, Ihave Cody Pommer from
(00:51):
Interstate Electrical.
And I'm super excited.
I've worked with Cody a lotover the years on different
projects.
And when it comes to electricalsafety, this is the guy.
So Cody, welcome to the show.
Hey, hi, Brandon.
Thanks for having me here.
Hey, Cody, can you introduceyourself to the audience?
Tell them a little bit aboutyour background and kind of just
who Cody is.
Cody Pommer (01:11):
Yeah.
As Brandon said, I'm asuperintendent for interstates.
I worked here for a little over12 years now.
So my roles as asuperintendent, I get to oversee
the electrical installations onprojects and just make sure
that the safety, quality, andproductivity fits and aligns
with interstate standards.
I kind of help with some of theinitial design on projects and
(01:34):
that layout and what that reallyis, is what the installation
means and methods, what's itlook like, you know, as a
finished project when we startenvisioning that stuff.
Um I also work hand in handwith owners, general
contractors, other trades, um,people such as yourself, just uh
remove obstacles and make surethat the the projects are done
(01:57):
on time and as smoothly aspossible, I guess.
Brandon Mulnix (02:00):
Well, like any good project manager, it's got
to be on time and on budget,right?
That's right.
We do our best.
So it always happens that way.
On time, on budget.
Those are great things.
So who's Cody when you're notworking?
Cody Pommer (02:13):
Yeah, so uh I got a wife and four kids, got one
left in high school, so we spenta lot of time either at
sporting events or last weekendwe were hunting down homecoming
dresses, and yeah, we just enjoythe outdoors.
We kids like boating, and mywife and I enjoy it and do some
(02:33):
camping and yeah, some stufflike that.
Brandon Mulnix (02:36):
Well, we're at similar points in life because I
have one more left.
He's senior year.
You don't want to miss any ofthose activities for sure.
So as we get going, I need toask: are there any disclaimers
about anything that we're gonnashare today coming from
interstates or anything likethat?
Cody Pommer (02:52):
Yeah, I'm an electrician by trade, not an
electrical engineer, so I'll domy best to answer any questions
or topics that we want to cover.
Brandon Mulnix (02:58):
So all right.
From the legal side, I'll sayanything you hear on this
podcast, please seek out theprofessional assistance and
electrician.
We don't want you to getshocked or hurt if we say
anything that could lead you toencourage you to do something
silly like that.
So I just want to put that outthere so nobody gets hurt.
So, Cody, what's the number onereason that somebody's gonna
(03:20):
call you?
Cody Pommer (03:21):
I would say just uh getting a professional opinion,
right?
I mean, we're talking aboutother farms or people starting
up a farm, it's working throughthat design phase, getting input
on what what's worked in thepast, what hasn't worked, the
do's and don'ts, uh just gettinga feel for for what you need as
(03:41):
a farm, I guess, you know, andthe size and what we can do to
help bring that imagination tofruition, you know.
Brandon Mulnix (03:47):
Yeah, it's interesting as I've been able to
experience a number of years inthe industry to see the the
sizes of these farms, barns,whatever you want to call them,
houses, continually grow, takeshape.
They're not your averagebackyard barn anymore.
And so as you do this, I wantto talk about if I'm a farmer
(04:09):
and I say, hey, you know, I hearabout this interstates thing,
but I I think I can do theelectrical myself.
What's a piece of advice you'regonna give me as I'm the farmer
and I'm trying to do theelectrical myself?
Absolutely not.
Cody Pommer (04:22):
Um if you if you want a site that's gonna have
some longevity, right?
And and fit code and um it'sgonna be safe and and run well,
I I would suggest that you donot do that.
Brandon Mulnix (04:36):
Well, let's talk about safety.
As you look across everythingthat's going on in in the
barnyard, the projects you'veworked on, what are the most
common electrical hazards thatyou've encountered on poultry
farms?
Cody Pommer (04:48):
Yeah, that's a good question.
There are a few differentthings.
I'd say one of them is probablyuntrained staff trying to fix
electrical equipment or work inpanels, and some of them guys
are just there, it might beovernight or whatever, trying to
make sure stuff's runningcorrectly and something breaks
down.
But what you'll tend to seesometimes, guys that aren't
(05:08):
qualified doing that, is maybethey leave some loose
connections or not getting arelay put back in where it needs
to get put back into, orsearching through some wiring
and cut some zip ties, and thenthe zip ties don't get put back
in there, and then it looks lessdesirable, I guess.
Why do looks matter when itcomes to electrical panels?
Well, the looks are importantto me for sure, but I'd say the
(05:31):
the safety side of it, right, iswhen we start getting wiring
hanging out of wireways andpanduits and places that are
supposed to contain the wire,right?
It just creates another hazardwith stuff hanging out there.
Probably another one of thesefacilities is just water or
moisture.
You know, the water is usuallypart of their cleaning, you
know, of the facility, trying tokeep that clean, or with
(05:53):
keeping airflow in the barns inthe winter times, you'll see a
lot of that warm air meeting thecold air outside, yeah, a lot
of freezing and rethawing attimes.
I mean, just dust and debris.
It's these birds, they create alot of dust and debris, and
even the best maintained sites,you're still gonna see a lot of
that.
Brandon Mulnix (06:12):
You mean not everybody's vacuuming out their
electrical panels, their motorpanels, their control panels?
Cody Pommer (06:17):
I would say most are trying to keep up with it,
but even that, you know, like Isaid, even some of the best
ones, it's just hard to keep upwith that amount of dust.
Brandon Mulnix (06:26):
Okay, you mentioned a number of different
hazards.
What are some of the thingsthat you know you've seen or
done to help mitigate some ofthose issues?
Cody Pommer (06:34):
Yeah, so like the water, we're gonna use
watertight fittings, making surewe're using the correct NEMA
ratings on panels and equipment.
So it's seal, you know, it'sgonna be gasketed and seal out
that that water and moisture.
Interstates has a standard ofmaking sure we put in low point
drains so that we put a drain atthe lowest point, say in the
(06:54):
conduit system or the wiring tomake sure that if there is
moisture gets in the conduitsystem, it's gonna drain away
from the electrical componentsand some of that stuff.
Another way is making sure thatwe're using GFCI protection,
which is a ground fault circuitinterrupter.
Basically, this is gonnaprotect against electric shock,
you know, and that compares thecurrent flowing in and the
(07:16):
current current flowing out.
As soon as that detects a lossof that current, which would be
through either a ground fault orthrough a person, it's gonna
trip that circuit, you know.
So that's a big, big help inthe industry.
Talking about dust and debris,I'd just say just regular
preventative maintenance andcleaning and just having that
scheduled sealing of electricrooms the best you can.
(07:39):
If we got wall penetrations oranything like that, sealing that
with fire pillows or fire culk,and you know, you seal those up
the best you can, it's gonnahelp a ton, but you're still
gonna get some dust in there.
Brandon Mulnix (07:50):
So as these barns have continued to evolve,
a lot of times you'll get into aremodel where they didn't have
an electrical room, they didn'thave their equipment protected.
Speak to the value propositionof an electrical room or
somewhere where that electricalequipment is not out in the
(08:12):
day-to-day.
Cody Pommer (08:13):
Yeah, I mean, there's still occasionally
panels that need to go outwithin the space that contain
the birds.
If you look at those incomparison to somewhere, you
know, where it's contained in anelectrical room, it's a night
and day difference.
There's it's gonna affect, Ithink in the end, it's gonna
affect the longevity of it,right?
If especially if you're talkingabout like VFDs, you know, they
(08:36):
need air flow, it's gonna pullin dust as the fans kick on
there.
Yeah, I'd say the longevity ofyour electrical equipment is
really the biggest effector.
And then not to mention therisk of fire, right?
If you're piling up dust onelectrical components, stuff
gets hotter, risk of explosions,that type of stuff.
Brandon Mulnix (08:56):
It's interesting because as houses continue to,
I'm gonna say, age, there'scertain things that don't
particularly age well in houses,and it seems to be the
forgotten thing of grounding.
Can you talk a little bit aboutwhat proper grounding looks
like and why that's a majorissue in, I'm gonna say more
(09:16):
aged houses?
Cody Pommer (09:17):
Yeah, and and yeah, grounding is gonna be a big
deal in any facility, but Iwould also say especially
important in these poultryfacilities due to the amount of
water and moisture, right, thatwe talked about a little bit
ago.
What this is gonna do, it'sgonna prevent shock to people
and and the birds themselves, orI guess you know, whatever type
(09:40):
of ag facility you're at.
It's gonna make sure thatnormally non-energized metal
parts don't become energized ifthey would inadvertently become
come in contact with anenergized wire, right?
It's gonna trip thatovercurrent protection and open
that circuit so it protects theanimals and people, right?
Um couple other things it canhelp prevent stray voltages,
(10:04):
right?
So it'll safely drain thesestray voltages to ground.
Um I'd say birds or any animalscan be sensitive to those
really small leakage voltage orcurrents, and proper grounding
and bonding is gonna just takethat stuff to ground.
If they're if they're sensingthem stray voltages and
currents, it could affect, Iwould say, productivity or um
(10:26):
just the way they're behaving,clearing those short circuits or
ground faults.
Yeah, grounding is gonna bevery big, like I said, in any
facility, but especially thesepoultry facilities.
Brandon Mulnix (10:39):
One thing that we found I get to help with the
tech support and watching allthe calls come in, grounding
seems to be one of the numberone culprits of a lot of the
technology, such as controllers,VS drives, uh, any type of
artifact.
It seems to be the factor thatends up being the solution
(10:59):
because over time, just the thecorrosion that happens, um
something gets bumped, and oh,that's just a ground wire, no
big deal.
And it came to find out thatwas preventing noise coming back
through or way for the noise toget out.
Whatever reason, things aredesigned with grounding for a
reason.
In fact, just this week on alow voltage system, we realized,
hey, you know what, let's trygrounding some things to see um
(11:23):
how that makes a big differencein the system.
Just because we assume that theelectrical is going to work as
designed, but over time, yeah,those are just some of the
problems that we we see in thethe high-tech stuff, I guess.
Cody Pommer (11:35):
Yeah, that's what I was just gonna say.
It seems like too, as atechnology advances, right,
these things are becoming moresensitive to that noise and and
them type of things we'retalking about.
Brandon Mulnix (11:46):
Yeah, things aren't just motor starter
switches, maybe a few potswitches, maybe if you know
whether it's all literallycomputers, even a VS drive has a
you know logic and and smartsin it that need that needs to be
treated like a computer.
Yep.
Speaking of like VS drives andthings like that, from your
perspective, how are smartcontrol systems being used to
(12:09):
manage ventilation, temperature,and lighting?
And what electricalconsiderations do these systems
require?
Cody Pommer (12:15):
In my opinion, they're being used to provide,
you know, these optimal type ofgrowing conditions, right?
They're able to fine-tune eacheach barn or each floor based
off of the data that they'regetting, or compared to um, I
feel like in the past, you know,these systems just energy
(12:36):
consumption regulation now atthis point, you know, like now
they're they're running at loweror higher RPMs, say fans are
based off the temperature withwithin certain locations within
each floor, you know, ratherthan fans running at full
voltage all the time, evenaccurately counting eggs, right?
(12:57):
Like Prism's new egg countingsystem is getting more uh
technological and able to dobetter counts on that.
Considerations, I would say, isum just integration.
Can this technology easily bemodified to the current system
that that they have?
Proper training of their staffon the control systems, you
(13:18):
know, especially if you'readding something new, making
sure that your staffingunderstands how this stuff
operates and works and issupposed to work.
Reliability, right?
Is it gonna stand up to theharsh environments of the of
some of these barns?
And then is the technologygonna be there in five years?
You know, we see some of thattoo, where the technology just
isn't there five years later.
Brandon Mulnix (13:38):
So thankfully, our company is still supporting
40-year-old product.
Absolutely.
And it's not easy, but when youbuy a chicken barn, the last
thing you want to do is fiveyears in, have to start
replacing the technology pieceof it.
You kind of want itfuture-proofed, and and that's
that's a big deal, big deal forany type of business because
technology does change, it doesevolve.
(14:00):
You mentioned a couple ofreally big factors like
electrical consumption, energyusage.
If you can save just a littlebit every day at these farms,
it's a big deal at the end ofthe year on the bottom line for
these farmers.
And so that's a that's a hugething.
So some of the advancementsthat you've seen just in your
(14:20):
your career when it comes to youknow, electrical components and
wiring, you know, code.
What are some of the newerthings that have come out that
you really said, hey, this was areal win for electricians or
real win for farmers?
Cody Pommer (14:35):
Yeah, uh just kind of new technology you're saying
wise.
Brandon Mulnix (14:39):
Yeah, just just even within the electrical
industry, you know, you don'tthink that copper wire changes
much, but you know, there's codethat has come out and it
changed from white 13 1430 to or14.2 to yellow 14.2, and I
don't even know why, buttechnology has evolved in the
wire, evolved in what you do.
What are some of the wins forthe electricians out there?
Cody Pommer (15:00):
Yeah, if you don't talk specifically for
electricians, probably won't betoo interesting to your
audience.
But like Southwire products,they come out with a new simple
wire that their claim to fame isum no lubrication is needed,
and they actually recommend thatyou don't put lubrication on
the wire because of this newtechnology and the slick coating
that they use on the outerjacket of their wiring.
(15:22):
That's relatively new, prettycool.
I'd say in the industry, I'dsay one thing we're seeing
that's getting to be big is firedetection, right?
Within within these barns.
Um I know Prism themselvesoffers an awesome product with
their um Vesda units and thermsystem, and we're also seeing uh
we're monitoring for firedetection and then triggering
(15:44):
doors to keep stuff fromspreading into other parts of
the facility or other buildings.
Lighting systems, I would say,is one.
You know, some of the olderolder barns is almost just a
plain Jane incandescentlighting, and it's getting to be
LED systems where we'rechanging, changing the color and
the hue of the light, and thetensity, and monitoring that
(16:06):
density, and able to do somepretty cool things there and see
how these birds are reacting tothat and adjusting that light
and getting more product, youknow.
And another thing, I guess Ihaven't really been around it
yet, but been hearing about isuh an additional lighting
system.
It works off of ionization andit's supposed to like clean the
(16:28):
air, the air quality.
So that's pretty cool.
I'd like to see see some moreof that or hear more about that
in the future.
Brandon Mulnix (16:35):
Yeah, we've been introduced to a lot of air
scrubbers this year, a lot offolks that are re-capturing the
heat, like heat exchangers, butalso in that heat exchange is
filtering the air, bringing itback in, um, using it, you know,
filtering it for the out, butalso filtering it to come back
in.
And that helps remove the dust,remove the some pneumonia,
capture that, especially asregulations.
(16:56):
You know, they change a lotwith administrations in the
White House.
Right now, some of those havenot moved forward.
Some of the threats of havingto monitor your air coming out
of your barns, but we've seen alot of that and a lot of
conversations around that.
Yeah, recapturing that energytoo, that heat.
So in the wintertime, you'renot your birds aren't having to
work as hard to keep warmbecause the air's coming back in
(17:18):
already warm.
It's kind of cool, right?
All right, because you're anelectrician, because you've been
in the barns, I kind of came upwith this section as we're not
going to believe that thisactually happened section.
And I gave you some time tokind of think about these, you
know, what are some of thethings that you've seen?
But I want to ask this questionwhat's some of the most
ridiculous electrical setups andshortcuts that you've seen on
(17:41):
the poultry farm?
It's probably the shortcutside.
Cody Pommer (17:44):
Yeah, and I'll go through them and what it is,
it's just it's not good for forthe consumer or the farms,
right?
The owners, it's not good forthe longevity of the equipment.
And it's also hard for us as anelectrical contractor, right?
If we're taking these extrasteps to do it right, and other
people are not, and then you'renot really comparing apples to
(18:04):
apples in a bid either, right?
So if the owner's looking atour bid compared to another
person's bid, it's like, well,why are you so much higher?
You know, and where where thatcomes into play is we're seeing
when we have a lot of VFD loads,other contractors are not using
VFD cable, and that'sdefinitely something that we
want to be doing.
This could cause problems withuh premature wire insulation
(18:26):
breakdown, uh, motor and cablefailure, harmonics like we were
talking about earlier, voltagespike issues.
The other thing I'd say ispretty common, it's tough uh all
the way around again.
Same kind of issues is notdoing voltage drop calculations.
They might be running 12 and 14gauge wire to stuff that for
(18:48):
doing the proper voltage dropcalculations should be like a
number eight wire.
Yeah, if it was 50 feet away,you know, it might be able to be
that 12 or 14 gauge wire.
But when you're talking aboutsome of these barns that are
getting to be three, four, fivehundred feet long, we really
need to pay attention to thosevoltage drop calcs, and it's
gonna change that sizing ofwire.
And when you're talking aboutthe amount of wire that goes
(19:10):
into these barns, that thatchanges pricing dramatically,
right?
But then also the longevity ofequipment as well, you know, and
risk of wire heating up andthat type of stuff.
Brandon Mulnix (19:23):
Oh, I'm sure that stuff can really add up.
And I say that just based onyou know understanding of the DC
side of things a little bitmore of the low voltage stuff.
And hey, we can run this catfive cable 600 feet.
No, you can't, it's not gonnawork.
And we're I mean, we're our ownworst enemy at times where left
hand doesn't talk to the righthand, and we're like, hmm, maybe
(19:45):
we should upsize that wire alittle bit for that direct
current thing, because I thinkthat's the problem.
So it definitely costs money atthe end.
It might work at the beginning,but eventually that wire's
gonna wear out, and or you know,if you saw an undersized wire
and there might be a fire, ofcourse, the mice love to chew on
that stuff, and any additionalresistance that comes from their
(20:05):
effort is gonna cause problems,I'm sure.
Yeah.
Can you share a story ofsomething that when it first
came in, you thought it was apretty minor issue, but it led
to something really bad.
Cody Pommer (20:18):
I wouldn't say like catastrophic in the fact that
like started a fire or anythinglike that, but I've seen
definitely seen some issue inthe past where the storage of
material before it gets actuallyinstalled, or it's not getting,
you know, electricalequipment's not getting
installed under a roof or a dryplace, and you start getting
some moisture and wetness insideof stuff that shouldn't have it
(20:41):
in there before it's even beeninstalled or commissioned.
You may have brand new motorsthat just aren't working.
And then that gets into thebattle of you know, is this uh
turning this to the vendor?
What do you what do you do?
That I would say yes, that'sthat's probably one big thing
that might seem pretty minor,but when you're talking about
hundreds and hundreds of fans orhundreds of whatever feed
(21:02):
motors, whatever it may be, justif we're gonna store it
outside, uh not in a dry place,yeah, make sure it's rated for
that, I guess.
Brandon Mulnix (21:10):
You are speaking to one of the biggest
challenges I had when I firstgot into this industry is
finding pallets worth of controlequipment out in the middle of
a field completely during amonsoon.
And it's like, yep, I betchathe life of this product is not
gonna last very long.
(21:30):
Sure enough, it didn't.
Cody Pommer (21:33):
So it definitely creates a problem.
Brandon Mulnix (21:37):
What's the most common do-it-yourself fix that
you see on the farm?
Cody Pommer (21:43):
My biggest pet peeve is wire nuts, like wire
nuts and like raceway, likepanduat panels or anything like
that.
Whether a wire got eitherdamaged or something changed
within the control system and itdoesn't go to a relay anymore
or something, but somebody willjust take two wires and pop a
wire nut on it.
That drives me nuts.
You're just creating a pointwhere something could easily
(22:05):
come apart and and causeproblems for everybody, a huge
headache that could easily beavoided.
I'd say if if you run in thosesituations, either A, re-pull
it, and if you can't re-pull it,use an irreversible crimp.
So, like interstates will useuh what's called a Buchanan
crimp.
You cannot undo it withoutphysically cutting it apart.
Brandon Mulnix (22:26):
So you're going so much deeper than I thought
you'd go.
I figured you'd see a lot ofblack tape on instead of wire
nuts on those on those wires.
I'm glad that you don't I don'treally see that.
So you haven't done enoughremodel work.
Even at my house, I found that100-year-old house, and that's
(22:47):
what I found for for wire nutsin most of the out most of the
boxes.
Oh wow.
I have seen that in residentialuh yeah, black tape wire nuts.
All right, future of poultryelectrical.
How can farmers today preparethemselves for future technology
(23:08):
advancements?
Cody Pommer (23:10):
I would say getting to the professionals, right?
Talking with the prisms andtalking with the interstates and
getting them involved and andfiguring out how to evolve their
systems and work as a team toto get those advanced and as
they feel necessary, right?
What do we want to do here andand work together?
How can we make this happen,right?
(23:31):
So the other thing I would sayis just discussing potential
changes early on in a project.
Say we're starting to build anew facility, and you think
maybe two years down the roadyou might make this change or
you or might want to add this.
There's stuff that we can doearly on that be little to no
cost or much easier, you know,plan for that ahead of time
during the design phase toreduce rework and cost of
(23:53):
escalation.
Brandon Mulnix (23:54):
You know, I'm in complete agreement.
As the guy who usually getscalled last on the project, very
little opportunity even to say,hey, what's the future?
How many houses are you gonnado?
What's the site hold?
All these questions, and thengo, yeah, we we designed exactly
what you asked for.
Yeah, then the next quote comesin, and the next quote comes in
and the next quote, and you'relike, Yeah, we would have
(24:15):
probably designed a littledifferent than that.
Cody Pommer (24:18):
Yeah, absolutely.
And it like I said, if we knowup front, it'd be very little to
know.
Sometimes I'm out in might noteven be any cost difference, you
know, being prepared for stuffin the future.
Brandon Mulnix (24:30):
Oh, yeah.
I mean, that that's a big one.
So I'm new to farming industry.
I'm new, I want to I want tobuild a farm.
You've already talked about afew things.
Is there anything else that youwould share with me if you were
the first person I called afterI was able to um lock up my
contract and get some birds,birds on order and said, hey,
(24:52):
I'm gonna I'm gonna get intothis whole poultry thing.
Cody, what what advice wouldyou have for me?
Cody Pommer (24:56):
I would absolutely get a hold of me and uh we'd
talk with our engineering, butprobably one of the biggest
things we haven't discussed,right, is redundancy,
redundancy, redundancy.
Like what happens if we losepower, you know, utility power.
You know, we're talking backupgenerators, we're talking any of
that type of stuff.
The better we can be preparedfor the unexpected, the better
(25:17):
off we're gonna be if ifsomething does happen that's not
planned.
Just ensuring, we talked aboutit, touched on a little bit,
ensuring that we have a goodmaintenance schedule.
If you're unsure what a goodmaintenance schedule looks like
or what that should entail,contact the prisms, contact the
interstates, lean on yourelectrical contractor to help
you come up with that if you'rehaving trouble with that.
(25:38):
Electrical safety-wise, stayingcurrent on your arc flash
studies and labeling as you addnew loads and stuff like that.
I want to make sure that we'rekeeping up with that.
For one, we need to do that byby NFPA, right?
Just have that labeling onthere.
But that's gonna ensure thatyour staff knows the proper PPE
when they're getting inside thisequipment, their safe working
distances and boundaries andincident available energy that's
(26:00):
available at each piece ofequipment.
Another thing that's gonna saveyou is peak demand, right?
Uh farms can see big issuesduring the summertime with their
power consumption wheneverybody's trying to run their
air conditioners and and allthat at the same time.
They could hit you at a peakdemand charge, the utility
company could.
And there's ways to combat thatthat we can work through at
(26:21):
engineering, and you know,whether it's something simple
like peak shaving, we call peakshaving, but essentially it's
just turning off non-criticalloads during those when it might
be five-hour windows during theday where they're gonna hit you
with that extra cost for thoseover peak demand charges,
running on generator power,maybe during those times, or
they're starting to get intoeven systems of solar and
(26:44):
battery bank options and stufflike that.
There's solar there's somethings that it could do that,
yes, there's some cost involvedthere, but over time it's gonna
save you money with those peakdemand charges with the utility
company.
Brandon Mulnix (26:55):
That's a lot of good information.
That is a lot of goodinformation for a new farmer.
In fact, I I learned somethingthere new myself about a lot of
that peak energy stuff and thetechnology around automating
that.
It's not like you want to goout and flip the peak energy
switch, and you know, that'swhat you pay somebody to do
every day.
But having the system that'ssmart enough to be able to go,
(27:16):
hey, you know, this is what wecan do.
I know on one of the projectsthat we worked on, it was shared
generators.
Instead of having one generatorper house, you guys were able
to kind of put that load over anumber of houses.
Can you speak to that at all?
Cody Pommer (27:30):
Yeah, so the idea is to more redundancy, like we
talked about.
So rather than relying on onegenerator or two generators, we
got four or five generators peryou know, four four buildings.
You got more redundancy there,you got uh less wear and tear on
each generator, right?
And then yeah, so likebasically every one would have
(27:52):
an extra generator.
So even if one broke down, youcould still run.
And then it did have the smartcapabilities to to switch
between them and try to keep thehours even on those, and that
was a cat product, so so far, sogood.
Brandon Mulnix (28:06):
It's amazing how many other industries have
provided really good ideas andtechnology for the poultry
industry, whether it's eggproduction, broilers, turkeys, a
lot of good, good informationcoming from those other
industrial complexes, so tospeak, because you're wiring
more towards what I'm gonna callindustrial standards versus
(28:28):
farm standards, if I'm notmistaken.
Is that correct?
Cody Pommer (28:31):
Yep, I would say interstates uh probably more
more heavy in the the industrialand have our heavy commercial
side.
No pun intended, but not to putall of our eggs in one basket,
you know, trying to be a littlemore diverse and diversifying
some in what we do.
Brandon Mulnix (28:47):
So any last advice for the poultry industry?
Cody Pommer (28:51):
I guess I had a question for for you.
I want to pick your brain alittle bit, yeah, no problem.
Um, so like one hot topic, itseems like lately is AI, right?
And I think it's gonna changeevery industry, but I also see
this being uh part of ag, right?
And you're kind of seeing thatlike we talked about earlier in
Prism's egg counting system andhow it's seeing and monitoring
(29:14):
eggs, and it might have an emptyshell go by or a bolt go by on
the on the egg belt, and it'sstarting to recognize that and
notice what's an egg and what'snot.
How do you see AI affecting theag industry?
You is there anything else thatyou see coming down the
pipeline where that could beadvantageous for us?
Brandon Mulnix (29:32):
Oh, AI is absolutely going to change this
industry.
The way producers raise theirbirds by the data that's
produced currently in the barnsand being able to take systems
that don't currently talk toeach other, bring them together
to see events, to see weatherpatterns, to see feed.
(29:53):
Like, hey, we had this vendor afeed, and here's the flock of
the birds, and just being ableto pull that data and really
Look at it in ways that you or Icould never see.
But then to be able to takethat and start to really dive
into those energy topics, diveinto what's taking my people the
most time and really startingto understand business cases of
(30:16):
different things that they'redoing.
And that's just on the easyside.
As you start to really get intoautomation and be able to run
your chicken house with muchbetter egg flow, I know our next
product is built with AI inmind.
And we're talking aboutartificial intelligence in this
industry.
A lot of people, when they talkabout AI in this industry, it's
about, you know, high path AI.
(30:38):
For this one, I have to be veryclear.
As the products get built, theyhave to engage this
future-proof mentality ofinformation and data because
that business intelligence ismoving so fast.
Your team has to be aware ofit.
If they're not using it everyday already, whether it's in
(30:58):
their emails, whether it's insummarizing things, reviewing
contracts, whether it's um justlooking and using the tools that
are available out there now tograsp that future-proof
mentality of AI, it's it's it'sgoing to take you a little bit
to catch up.
And there are a lot, I'm seeingit all over the industry.
From the Poultry Tech Summitcoming up here in a couple of
(31:19):
weeks, they have this huge pushabout AI and how it's working on
genetics, feed, and being ableto process things that you or I,
I mean, we're we're not in thatrealm, anyways, but humans just
can't process enough.
It's also coming in visionsystems that are pigs are able
to weigh their pigs via cameras.
(31:40):
What's that look like forbirds?
Cattle, they're able toidentify diseases in cattle from
the way the cattle are actingwith air sampling and their
movements and what they'redoing.
The technology is so faradvancing so fast.
And in an industry that lovesto get the most out of their
(32:01):
capital investments, it's hardto make that change, but you
have to make that change whereyou can, whether that's in the
control systems, whether that'sin the business practices,
whether that's in HR, wherever,you have to get the efficiencies
you can get out of it.
Um, and there's a balance.
There's always the human needto process the information that
(32:25):
it's giving you because it cangive you some not so good
information, but the more youuse it, the more comfortable you
get with it, and the moreyou're able to start envisioning
how it can change what you'redoing today.
And so, really, uh it'sexciting times.
It's cool to see the producersout there that are engaged fully
in it and actually have chieftechnical officers or chief um
(32:49):
AI officers or data officers.
And typically it isn't thatnext generation of folks coming
through because you know theydon't want to necessarily work
in the barn anymore, they wantto evolve their business or
their family farm a little bit.
And so that's where we'regetting to see it in the
different generations of thefamilies.
And it even got brought up atthe North Central Poultry
Association this week.
Um, there was a couplequestions to the senior leader
(33:12):
group, is what I'm gonna callthem.
And they talked about using AIum even at the retirement age
and how important that is tograsp that.
So it was cool, and I thinkit's it's really gonna it's
gonna affect you and I a lotmore.
Cody Pommer (33:28):
Absolutely.
I'm excited to see what thenext 10 years looks like.
You know, it's just gonna makeus, I think, leaner and more
efficient and better, andhopefully make our lives easier
and just yeah, all around makeeverything.
Brandon Mulnix (33:41):
I was introduced to an MIT study, and I don't
have the exact article in frontof me, but it talked about this
engineering firm that had thisbuilding they were gonna have to
build, and they estimated itwas gonna take like 800 man days
to be able to engineer this,and they ended up engineering it
in hours via AI, and all theydid was take all their current
(34:04):
designs and stuff they had andfed it into their their machine,
and and then it it popped outthis drawing, and then all they
did was have to critique it, andit was pretty darn accurate.
But those are the kind ofthings that it makes sense for.
Like I've got all of thesedesigns that are known, they're
factual, these are the thingsthat make it happen.
(34:26):
Now respit that out with thisdesign and this features.
Man, for electrical engineeringdrawings, especially you're
talking your panel drawings.
You know, I know you guys dosome really good work there, but
it's like it's gonna, those arethe things that are gonna be
the engineer's gonna be spendingmore time on actually solving
some other problems than doingthe day-to-day kind of work.
Cody Pommer (34:49):
Yep.
Brandon Mulnix (34:50):
So absolutely less data entry, hopefully.
So hopefully.
All right.
Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna wrapthis thing up.
I'm gonna pop the breaker onthis show.
And I can't go, we've talked alittle bit about prism controls
throughout, but I really have totalk a little bit more about
(35:11):
them today.
As the industry continues toevolve, they've evolved.
With this, they've got aproduct that they offer called
ECO.
It is designed for these smalland medium barns, these pasture
free-range barns that don'trequire the I'm gonna say
customization of a controlthree, but they really want the
(35:33):
optimal controls for itsventilation, feed, lighting, and
also they want a place thatthey can monitor their data and
be able to change theirlighting, and they want all that
at the touch of their phone.
So Eco is a product that wehave been excited to roll out
this last year, and we want tomake sure that you're all aware
(35:54):
of it.
So if you are a small to mediumbarn, and I'm gonna say where
you're gonna probably be outthere looking for an automated
controller instead of just athermostat on the wall or a few
switches, and you want that toknow what's going on in your
barn day to day, hour by hour,reach out to PrismControls at
PrismControls.com, connect witha sales um member on there, and
(36:17):
they will be more than happy tohelp you out.
So, Cody, thank you for being aguest on the show.
I look forward to futureconversations about AI and
electrical and all of that.
Thank you.
Cody Pommer (36:29):
Awesome.
Thanks for having me, Brandon.
Yeah.
Brandon Mulnix (36:32):
All right, listeners, have a great day.
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