July 30, 2025 • 37 mins
Ever feel like you're wearing an emotional mask at work? You're not alone. Brandon Mulnix sits down with TEDx speaker and breathwork practitioner Sam Kabert to explore the hidden mental health challenges that plague even the most successful leaders.
Sam shares his remarkable journey from building a seven-figure business while working just four hours daily to confronting a numbing depression despite having achieved all his goals. This vulnerability opens a powerful conversation about why emotional health—not just mental health—might be the missing piece in leadership development.
"Thoughts are the language of the mind, and feelings are the language of the body," Sam explains, unveiling why so many leaders get trapped in destructive patterns of compartmentalization. When we metaphorically put difficult emotions into boxes without ever unpacking them, we're simply placing Band-Aids on deeper issues that eventually manifest as burnout, physical ailments, or strained relationships.
The episode features a guided breathwork experience that demonstrates how simple techniques can activate the parasympathetic nervous system and shift brainwave states from high-stress beta to more peaceful theta waves. Sam also introduces practical tools like the WIFL (What I Feel Like expressing) technique that creates space for authentic connection in team settings.
For leaders in high-stress environments—whether first responders, poultry farmers dealing with avian influenza outbreaks, or executives facing constant pressure—this conversation offers a refreshing perspective on integrating work and personal life rather than artificially separating them. Sam's work with first responders through his nonprofit, offering free sessions and workshops focused on trauma release, highlights the universal need for emotional processing rather than emotional suppression.
Ready to transform your leadership through emotional awareness? This episode might just be the deep breath you didn't know you needed. Share it with someone who's struggling—because sometimes, acknowledging our feelings is the strongest leadership move we can make.
Connect with Sam - https://samkabert.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kabert/
Hosted by Brandon Mulnix - Director of Commercial Accounts - Prism Controls
The Poultry Leadership Podcast is only possible because of its sponsor, Prism Controls
Find out more about them at www.prismcontrols.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brandon Mulnix (00:27):
Welcome to the Poultry Leadership Podcast.
I'm your host, Brandon Mulnix,and on today's episode we're
going to talk about mentalhealth.
Today we're going to be talkingabout it because this is a very
important topic to me.
This is a very important topicto me as a first responder, as
(00:48):
somebody who did 20 years in thefield, in the trenches, being a
paramedic.
Mental health really shaped mylife in both positive and
negative ways, and so I'm reallyglad that I ran into today's
guest, Sam Kabert.
Now, Sam is unique.
We've had some greatconversations leading up to this
podcast episode, so as Iintroduce him, I want you to
(01:11):
know that this guy's amazing.
He really does love the subject, he values the subject and he
really values first responders.
So I'm excited to get into thatwith him.
But to introduce Sam a littlebit, he's a TEDx speaker, which
that's just cool in itself.
He's also the host of the SoulSeeker podcast, so I have high
(01:32):
expectations for how he performson this podcast as well, as
he's worked with folks likeGoogle, the PGA and other
companies that you would knowout of Silicon Valley over the
years, as well as around theglobe, just helping others in
their mental health journey.
So with that, welcome to theshow.
Sam Kabert (01:51):
Brandon, what an awesome intro.
Thank you so much.
I'm stoked to be here with you,and I'm here for it all.
So wherever this takes us,let's go.
Brandon Mulnix (02:01):
Hey Sam, I cheated.
I looked online for your intro.
Can you share with the audiencewho you are?
Sam Kabert (02:07):
Yeah, totally.
So I was just mentioning to youbefore as well.
Like for me, ever since I wasyoung, I didn't really know what
I wanted to do.
When I grew up, I just knew Iwanted this elusive state of
work-life balance and fastforwarding from junior high high
school, when that was like, hey, I don't know what I want, but
I know I want to enjoy my life.
(02:28):
Right, fast forward to 31 yearsold.
I had built my business up to aseven figure company with no
employees, just virtualassistants.
So for any of the businessowners out there, I think we can
relate to like it's.
It's a lot when you areresponsible for other people and
personalities, and anyone in HRas well.
(02:49):
So, anyways, I was just workingwith VAs.
I didn't have employees, Ibuilt a seven-figure company
while working less than fourhours a day, and I was actually
named to Silicon Valley's 40under 40 list that year as well.
And what's fascinating is,despite having reached all my
goals, having financial freedomat the time and I could do what
(03:11):
I wanted to do when I wanted todo it, I had work-life balance,
I was going through a numbingdepression, and that was back in
2019.
So I really got to this rockbottom where the universe I mean
to get woo for a moment herestarted to send me these
experiences like breath work,like a journey with just myself
(03:32):
and my breath, where nothingelse involved, just breathing
for about an hour and a halfwith a facilitator, where I
literally felt reborn and it wasthe most wild sensation of my
life that I was like there's gotto be something more here.
So that's what sent me on thisjourney of going within, really
addressing my mental andemotional health.
(03:52):
And here I am now, six yearslater.
I've become a yoga instructor,I lead men's groups, a
breathwork practitioner, amaster practitioner in MER.
That's mental, emotionalrelease for complex PTSD and NLP
and hypnosis.
So that's kind of what I'm upto now and how I got here.
Brandon Mulnix (04:12):
So, Sam, you're not my usual guest.
My usual guest is somebody fromthe poultry industry, someone
that is an expert in that field.
But what's interesting is is, Ifound, as someone who was in a
field that should have hadreally good mental health
support sometimes we don't findwhat we're looking for within
(04:32):
our current network, and that'swhy bringing you on and sharing
some of what you've been verysuccessful in doing for not only
the first responders we'vealready talked about, but also
for individuals, you knowindividuals high functioning
athletes, high functioningexecutives, people that are
struggling with a lot of burnoutand a lot of things that you
(04:55):
would think, man, they've got itall together, just like you
thought.
You know you were at a pointwhere you had it all together,
you know.
So, for the listeners, I'm justasking you guys, bear with me.
This is something unique, thisis something different, but, man
, I think this really will helpyou If you're suffering from
burnout, if you're a leader whojust doesn't have it all
(05:18):
together.
Everybody thinks you do.
This is for you.
So, Sam, I'm setting the barpretty high, but as we get going
, you know, when I talk aboutmental health for leaders, let's
dive into that subjectspecifically.
Why is it important for aleader to have good mental
health?
Sam Kabert (05:36):
Yeah, and before I get into that, I'll mention as
well like I am from SiliconValley, a town about 30 minutes
South.
It's called Gilroy.
It's the garlic capital of theworld, and I grew up with goats,
horses, chickens, roosters mydad was just talking about new
chickens he got just yesterdayand my neighbors out here in
Santa Cruz, a beach town.
(05:57):
My neighbors were kind of boxedin, but literally I hear their
rooster crow and the chicken, soit's kind of funny.
Anyways, though, having saidall that, mental and emotional
health is so important foreveryone.
You know, leadership is a broad, it's a broad term, right?
(06:18):
I think this applies to all ofus, because we're all leaders in
our own unique way.
We can either lead ourself, howwe show up for ourselves, we
can be a leader within ourfamily and being a role model,
you know or in the workplace allthese different areas.
And right now it's a beautifultime as it relates to mental
health, because in the past fewyears, people have really opened
up to de-stigmatizing mentalhealth.
(06:39):
Yet I actually believe what'sas important or more important
than mental health is emotionalhealth, and I do believe that's
going to be the next wave.
And it's funny because, likeyou know this, brandon,
especially like being a firstresponder and whatnot, and a man
especially probably I'mstereotyping and generalizing,
but, you know in a more man's,man type role and industry than
(07:04):
like Silicon Valley with liketech nerds, you know, and geeks
or whatever, and I'm just usingbroad terms here.
I'm not calling anyone out orbeing judgmental, just using
broad terms.
Point being, though, like ittakes anyone, but especially in
a business environment, andespecially if you're a man, to
be vulnerable to talk about yourmental health, then, when it
(07:27):
comes to emotional health, likewhat we're talking about here is
our feelings, and we're alllike, well, oh, no, no, no, no,
I don't want to talk about myfeelings.
That's like touchy feely, butwait a second.
How, how do you make decisions?
How do you decide what you'regoing to eat?
Right, what do you feel likeeating when you talk about your
workouts?
And every decision we make isbased off of feeling, yet we're
like I don't want to go therefor some reason.
(07:50):
So, to wrap this up, like interms of why mental and
emotional health is so importantfor everyone, leaders, is
because it allows us to behonest with what we are actually
feeling.
Something that you and I talkedabout previously was
compartmentalization, and we canunpack this a bit more.
But when we compartmentalizewe're basically like, hey, I
(08:12):
can't address that thought orthat feeling that's coming up
right now because I have to bepresent with what I'm doing.
So then we metaphorically putit in a box in the back recesses
of our mind, we wrap it up andwe never go back and open up
that box.
So compartmentalizationalthough yes, it can be useful
in the moment it's actuallydoing us a disservice if we
(08:34):
never unpack that box.
So I help people to get to theroot of all their different
baggage and issues, because weall have it that we've left
unprocessed, so that we can getto the root, release it in real
time.
Brandon Mulnix (08:47):
As you talked about that.
It's interesting because partof mental health is the positive
emotions that sometimes we boxup as leaders and we have no one
to celebrate with.
I was just talking the otherday with a newer leader and
saying, dude, if you needsomeone to call and just say,
you know, say your proudestmoments of the week, call me,
(09:08):
because there's so many times asleaders we don't.
You know.
Our employees may tell us thegood things that they do, but
who do we get to tell our goodthings to?
And being a first responder,being a farmer, being business
guy, we have wins.
How do you balance those, thosetwo different boxes that you
compartmentalize, can you?
Can you jump into that one alittle bit?
Sam Kabert (09:30):
Yeah, if I'm not answering it the right way, just
feel free to chime in.
But as it relates to like thecelebrating the wins, like even
before this, you celebrate a winwith me and I'm like hell, yeah
, that's awesome, that's amazing, Right.
And a lot of times it's funnybecause, whether it's a win or
it's something where we'reasking someone to like quote
unquote hold space for us, whichbasically means like we're
(09:53):
venting or getting something offour chest that we've been
holding there's thissubconscious expectation that
the person is going to react acertain way, and by subconscious
I mean that the subconscious orthe unconscious makes up 95% of
our awareness, everything thatwe don't have access to.
So we aren't realizing a lot oftimes, when we're celebrating a
(10:16):
win with someone else or whenwe're venting someone else, that
like hey, on a subconsciouslevel, I'm expecting them to
react or respond a certain way.
That's not why we do it, butthat it does come into on a
subconscious level.
I'm expecting them to react orrespond a certain way.
That's not why we do it, butthat it does come into play on a
subconscious level.
When, then, that person doesn'trespond in the way that you want
it, you feel like you'restanding naked there, right,
(10:38):
you're exposed, right.
Like wait a second, that's notwhat I expected, like why can't
you be in this with me?
Whether it's like thenegativity or the positivity.
So this all plays a role inmental and emotional health,
because it's called shadow workand Carl Jung, the Swiss
psychiatrist, he coined the termthe shadow.
And the shadow just means tomake the unconscious conscious.
(11:01):
It's not about things that arebad or good or bad or right or
wrong or anything like that,it's just about becoming aware.
So now, all of a sudden, ifwe're celebrating a win or event
, such whatever it is, we knowwhy we're showing up that way,
so we don't have thatsubconscious expectation from
the other person, so that wearen't feeling worse after
(11:24):
sharing.
You know.
Brandon Mulnix (11:25):
No, that's a great, great feeling.
You know, I've had that timewhere I got to share a success
with somebody and it kind of hiton deaf ears and I'm like, was
that really a win?
Was that good enough for them?
Now, my wins weren't goodenough for them.
Now I'm disappointed and I just, you know, you just keep
compartmentalizing stuff likethat.
But as an industry, you know,mental health has really come to
(11:48):
light.
Just in the past year I've seencompanies that have really
highlighted their drive to helptheir employees.
You know, from suicide, from,you know, people that didn't
think, for whatever reason, theyneeded to continue on, and
(12:14):
that's hard.
One of the other things isthere's people dealing with the
mental health effects of avianinfluenza and losing their birds
.
I mean, just as we're recordingthis, more farmers are, you
know, losing more birds and justwhat it takes for someone to go
in and just depopulate a houseis just, it's tragic.
But yet leaders are asked to doit and with their teams, and
(12:39):
then be able to kind of helptheir teams recover.
Any thoughts from yourperspective on the poultry
industry and what we're goingthrough?
Sam Kabert (12:47):
Yeah, you know, the first thing I'll address is the
topic of suicide.
You know that hits home andwhen you brought that up I had
chills go all through my body.
It's like, oh, here we go again.
I just lost a close friend, afamily member, to suicide about
two months ago.
I'm wearing the wristband.
It was April 12th, so almosttwo months at this point and
(13:10):
that's the second time in mylife now I've become a survivor
of suicide, losing someone closeto me.
And yeah, it's actuallysomething that's come up at
least once, one other time todayand a few times yesterday, and
I'm like, oh, interesting,that's coming up again.
You know, um, but suicide is avery real thing and I it doesn't
(13:34):
matter what industry it is.
Really, I think a lot of itcomes down to not being
authentic with how we're feeling.
Like I, I'm really aboutemotional health more in mental
health.
You know I talk about mentalhealth as well, of course, but
it you know I'm talking aboutfeelings here and mental health
(13:55):
is more about thoughts.
You were mentioning how mentalhealth is being talked about a
lot more and what I hear peoplesaying is like hey, about a lot
more.
And what I hear people saying islike, hey, if you need to
address mental health, youshould do some meditation.
And when you're sitting therein meditation, notice a thought.
Then let the thought drift away.
Or maybe you're experiencinganxiety, or experiencing stress
(14:19):
or loss, perhaps from you knowwhat you're describing in your
industry.
Well, try breathing, becausebreathing can help you to cope
with that.
And I actually believe that'sthe worst advice you can give
someone, because that justcreates more
compartmentalization.
Right, it's like, hey, in thismoment I'm experiencing stress,
I'm experiencing anxiety, I'mexperiencing sadness, I'm
(14:41):
experiencing grief, whatever itis.
Okay, let me just put aBand-Aid on that so I don't have
to feel that right now.
Okay, now I I feel a little bitbetter.
It's still there, but I don'tnotice it as much, and now I'm
just going to move forward withmy life.
And then, when you put yourhead on the pillow at night,
you're just like, oh, there'sjust this sinking feeling.
You don't know what it isbecause you put a band-aid on it
(15:02):
, so it's not right in front ofyou.
And then, when you wake up inthe morning, you're just kind of
like, okay, whatever, you know,because you have a bandaid on
it, so it helps you somewhat.
But is it actually getting tothe root?
It's not.
Brandon Mulnix (15:15):
You know, as you were sharing with that.
You know, it definitely isinteresting that this mental
health, this emotional I'm anemotional guy.
I can.
I cry at everything.
People pick on me all the timewhen I'm watching a movie.
Maybe it's, maybe it's my heart, maybe it's just.
You know, I'm, I'm sappy, butthat's okay, cause I realized
(15:35):
that that's who I am.
And to repress that's a badthing.
But when it comes to leadershipand as you're talking, you
could just imagine how manypeople think that their
responsibility when they get towork is to shut down emotions,
shut down mental health issues,like they can turn them off, and
turn them on like a switch orthe emotion or what they're
(16:08):
dealing with as a distraction,and then perform at peak
performance and then go home andthen turn it all back on again
because the problem didn't leavethem.
I mean, is that somethingthat's you know?
You've noticed in yourprofession and what you're doing
and how you help leaders?
Sam Kabert (16:19):
A hundred percent.
That's how people operate.
You know, like, have you seenthat show, severance on Apple?
I'll have to watch it.
It's fascinating.
It's been out for a few years.
Then they took a hiatus and itcame back, I think, this season,
so I think it's two seasons orsomething like that.
But the basic premise is there'sa medical procedure that
(16:40):
happens and when these people goto work they know nothing about
their personal life, and whenthey come home they know nothing
about their work life.
And I know, in the firstresponder scene that's huge,
that's almost what they teach,right, and not just like first
responders, most careers, like.
When we think of work-lifebalance, that's exactly what
(17:00):
we're doing.
We're separating the two asopposed to integrating them,
because we're only one person.
Right, we say, oh in your worklife, oh in your personal life.
Who do you know?
That's living two lives, likeliterally living two lives.
We're only living one life butyet we separate it like that.
So we're lying to ourselves, andwhen we lie to ourselves, we're
(17:22):
harboring that shame orharboring that guilt, whatever
it is, and that can manifest ina whole host of dis-ease in the
body, because the body istypically what happens when
we're experiencing an illness is.
It's the body speaking to you,trying to get your attention,
and that's where the shadow workcomes in, being like oh wow, is
this pain about something else?
(17:43):
Let me actually feel into thatand see what's here so that I
can move through it versus no,no, no, no, no.
Let me just get somepharmaceuticals or whatever it
is to just numb that and trustthat's going to happen.
Meanwhile now you're having abunch of gut issues because your
gut microbiome is all messed up, because you're taking
pharmaceuticals and notaccessing the pharmaceutical
(18:06):
natural holisticness of yourbody in terms of regenerative
health in a human form, you know.
Brandon Mulnix (18:14):
Yeah, as you were talking, you mentioned the
pharmaceuticals, but it was morelike when I get home, I just
need just that beer.
Sam Kabert (18:24):
That too yeah.
Brandon Mulnix (18:25):
I need to go for that run, which isn't a bad
thing.
I'm not going to say thatthat's a bad thing or a good
thing.
I like to run, but it's.
There's so many different wayspeople cope instead of deal.
So, yeah, it's, it's achallenge in that, but that best
advice I ever got from somebodyone time was and take a deep
breath.
That best advice I ever gotfrom somebody one time was take
(18:46):
a deep breath and it's like whyis that such good advice, Sam?
Why is taking a?
Sam Kabert (18:54):
deep breath.
Such good advice.
Yeah, this is going to calmyour nervous system.
So this is what I teach.
This is what I'm all about.
It's all about breath work andif you'd like, I could guide us
through like a minute or two ofbreathwork, would you like that?
I'd like that.
Cool, all right.
So before we get into this, I'lljust mention that science has
(19:15):
something called the 90 secondrule and it teaches that our
body has a 90 secondphysiological response when we
experience an emotion, and it'sbeen said that emotions are
energy in motion, and that'sbacked up by the scientific fact
.
So if we don't allow ourself tofeel what's coming to the
surface, it gets stuck and itgets stored in the body.
(19:35):
So by leveraging our breath, wecan allow that energy to move
through us.
So what we'll do right now forall of you listening, like if
you're driving or doing anythingwhere you can't close your eyes
, you can breathe with us.
Just be mindful, don't closeyour eyes, otherwise I'd invite
our listeners to take a seat nowand, brandon, for yourself and
(19:55):
for me and for anyone that canjust beginning to shut down your
eyes and sitting straight upand feeling your feet on the
floor and, through your nose,inhaling all the way up, sipping
in a bit more air at the topand through the mouth, a big
sigh let it go.
(20:16):
And again through the nose,inhaling up as you let the belly
and the back body expand, andbringing that breath all the way
up to the top, sipping in a bitmore at the top and just go
ahead and hold your breath here,just holding the breath and now
(20:37):
just sighing it out Let it go,let it go.
And this next breath in inhalingall the way up, sipping in a
bit more air at the top andholding the breath and just
allow one feeling to comethrough and giving it a name
(20:57):
being with that feeling now andsighing it out Let it go, let it
all out.
And we'll do one final onethrough the nose, inhaling up,
sipping in a bit more air at thetop, hold the breath, roll up
(21:18):
the eyes as if you were to lookat your eyebrows, but with your
eyes closed, and just imagineyourself in the next few hours
as you go throughout your day.
How do you want to feel?
Ease, confident, joy, happiness, whatever it is.
Allowing yourself to feel thatemotion now and then go ahead
and sigh it out let it go, letit go, let it all out and just
(21:40):
laying the breath, return to thenatural rhythm and flickering
the eyes back open.
Just a simple exercise, notgoing super deep, but a quick
little reset Like do you feellike some shifts?
Brandon Mulnix (21:56):
Oh yeah, I could feel it in my shoulders, feel
it in my body.
Most of my tension always fallsin my shoulders.
Sam Kabert (22:03):
Ah, that's good to know, I know where the muscles
are.
Brandon Mulnix (22:06):
I know at the end of a stressful day that my
shoulder is going to hurt and inthe middle of about second
breath, it was when my shoulderswent back, relaxed.
Sam Kabert (22:18):
So to answer your question, like that's the felt
experience, to answer yourquestion, the scientific answer
is like a lot of times whatwe're doing is first we're
activating the parasympatheticnervous system, which is rest
and digest.
Next we can get into the vagusnerve and the vagus nerve is
going to help us go deeper intorest and digest.
We're balancing out the carbondioxide to oxygen levels as well
(22:44):
and then finally, like there'sactivation of what's the theta
brainwave states and not to gettoo deep on neuroscience, but
there's three different rangesof beta brainwave states and not
to get too deep on neuroscience, but there's three different
ranges of beta brainwave statesand that's typically like high
performance not necessarily flowstates, but like you know doing
and the wakeful state.
High beta would be like highstress, right.
(23:06):
A lower beta would be justnormal day-to-day stuff, and
then we start to shift intotheta, as we're doing breath
work I know this is just about atwo-minute exercise we just did
so it's not like going to bethe most impactful thing, but it
can start to slow down thosebrainwave states so that we get
(23:26):
into easier state.
And sometimes what I'll do toois lead people to specifically
feel a negative emotion so thatthey can process it and then
notice at the end there there'sfuture pacing like and see
yourself for the rest of the day.
How do you want to feel?
And since now we're enteringinto the theta brainwave state,
(23:47):
we're actually rewiring theneural networks in the brain to
fire and wire positiveconnections that actually feel
good.
So that's a little bit of thenerdy science behind it.
Brandon Mulnix (23:59):
Well, you are talking to a tech company with
nerds You've mentioned itearlier about the geeks and
nerds and I'm like oh, he'stalking about our company.
Sam Kabert (24:09):
Hey, I'm into this stuff too, right.
So you know allself-deprecating here and no
judgment or anything like that,of course, so, Sam, you know we
talk about our individualemotional and mental health.
Brandon Mulnix (24:31):
Let's talk about how we translate this to a team
people that we're responsiblefor.
Can you lead us kind of throughhow important it is for us to,
as leaders, care about ouremployees in this way?
Sam Kabert (24:38):
100%, Brandon.
So first things first, theacronym WIFL.
Have you heard that one before?
I have not yeah, I ask it allthe time.
Rarely has anyone ever heard it.
I was lucky enough back in like2013, when I was in the office
supply industry, to go to aconference and there was a
breakout session for youngprofessionals, and they taught
(24:59):
us the acronym WIFL, and theidea is that it stands for what
I feel like expressing and whatthey taught us back then.
I mean, this was back in 2013,in the stale office supply
industry that they taught usthis, but it was like open up a
meeting with a Wiffle where it'screating the space where people
can express something, andmaybe like in a business
(25:23):
environment, right, you'rehosting this meeting and you're
seeing that person in themeeting that just seems like
they don't want to be there,right, and we start to make
assumptions of what's going on,but we have no idea what's going
on their world.
Maybe something stressful justhappened, or they're feeling
some anxiety for something lateron.
Anything could have happened byopening up the space with, like,
(25:45):
what I feel like expressing.
It's not asking everyone in themeeting to share and start
crying or anything like that.
It's just like 30 or 60 secondsof like hey, if there's
anything that's keeping you awayfrom being fully present right
now.
This is an opportunity to shareand now, when that person
shares that thing, we're nolonger making assumptions.
(26:06):
Instead, we're seeing them withcompassion and we're connecting
like humans, because in workenvironments we're so focused on
doing and just like gain theobjections.
And then there's meetings forthe sake of meetings right, that
as well.
So the Wiffle is great toconnect with people.
And the other thing that I dois even on, like my podcast, I
(26:27):
open it up with three simplebreaths, nothing big, just like
simple breaths and like, hey,let's just ground with some
breath.
So those are just twoactionable things that you guys
can take with you and integrateinto your meetings.
Brandon Mulnix (26:42):
Those are a great acronym.
I like that one and the takingdeep breaths even at the
beginning of a meeting.
We're all in it together iswhat I keep saying.
You know when, when the team issuffering or struggling, I'm,
as your leader, struggling withyou and it's okay.
You know, asking questions ofhow can I help and truly being
(27:06):
genuine about it and making surethat you're not just saying it
to check the box off, that I gotto ask this as a leader.
No, what I mean this is yourteam.
You spend more time with thesepeople.
You spend more time with themthan you do your own family Most
of the time.
Sam Kabert (27:21):
Thank you for saying that, yeah.
Brandon Mulnix (27:24):
If and and and, and I'm not the right person for
every work environment.
Believe me, I'd probably fit inin the office supply
environment and I go to theoffices as you were saying that.
I'm like, oh, that's where Irecognize you from.
Is the office Wait?
Sam Kabert (27:39):
what.
Brandon Mulnix (27:40):
The show the Office.
Yeah, yeah yeah, no, Sam wasnot on the Office.
Yeah, yeah, but no, I canenvision that environment,
though, of stress, and we allare unique and have our own
stresses at work, whether it'sour boss, employees, what
they're going through,everything it's all good.
So, Sam, as a leader yourself,you've led teams, you've led
(28:06):
companies.
What other areas am I missingthat we should be talking about
today here on the podcast?
Sam Kabert (28:15):
Yeah, one thing I'll mention is I've talked a lot
about like mental and emotionalhealth, but what does that
actually mean?
So think of it this way likethoughts are the language of the
mind and feelings are thelanguage of the body.
When we experience a thought,it sends a signal to the body
which produces a feeling.
So that is why it's soimportant, because if we don't
(28:36):
allow ourself to feel thatfeeling, then we get stuck in
mental thought loops and we justruminate there.
So for that reason, I combinesubconscious reprogramming with
nervous system regulationthrough breathwork, and I have
found that is the missing link,because in all of like the
different trainings and groupsand books and podcasts and
(28:58):
different things that I've goneto, it's usually one or the
other People are usuallyfocusing on like the mind and
mindset, or they're focusing onlike nervous system and feelings
, and I'm like wait a second,like we need to be merging these
two together.
So that's why I'm so passionateabout that.
Brandon Mulnix (29:15):
So many of our industry the poultry industry,
the farming industry are firstresponders.
They're military folks.
You've got a passion for that.
Can you share with me theservices that you offer the
first responders?
Sam Kabert (29:34):
Yeah, back in in college, uh, I was I don't know
18, 19 years old and I was inthe living room when, um, my
friend had hung himself, when Imentioned earlier about suicide,
and I remember the paramedicscoming, I remember being in the
hospital all night, you know,and and just really, I think the
pandemic in a lot of waysreally opened my eyes further to
(29:57):
, uh, like the heroes on thefront line, if you will, and I'm
a keynote speaker as well.
So I've spoken to a lot ofdifferent industries and in 2024
I started to gain speaking toresponder groups and then it was
like, oh my God, I'm reallyseeing how much this work is
(30:18):
needed with first responders.
So I started a nonprofit andbasically I'm offering like free
sessions and free workshops,whether it's in person or remote
, so all kinds of differentthings, from short breathwork
sessions that are about 30minutes to day-long intensives
where we're doing deeper workand breathwork journeys.
(30:39):
And this is trauma release.
The other way I support firstresponders is through MER.
That stands for mental,emotional release, and this gets
to the root.
And by getting to the root weare able to reprogram the
subconscious mind that washolding onto those traumas so
that we can actually releasethem, and some history about MER
(31:02):
.
Like Tony Robbins, what he'sutilizing is NLP
neuro-linguistic programming andhe learned from Tad James back
in the 1980s who createdtimeline therapy.
Tad James' son, dr Matt, tooktimeline therapy and created MER
to enhance it mental emotionalrelease and Dr Matt actually
(31:24):
became a doctor just to doscientific studies to prove the
efficacy of MER and how it isable to wipe out even complex
PTSD.
So this is amazing work and,yeah, if anyone's interested,
just reach out to me and we canchat more for sure.
Brandon Mulnix (31:40):
Yeah, I'll have your contact information in the
show notes or listeners.
If you have any need for thisor feel that you'd like to look
into it more, please reach outto me and I'll connect you with
Sam.
This is one of those thingsthat really means a lot to me
and it's anything we can do toconnect and get you or your
(32:02):
department you know help.
Then we want to do that Becauseyou know I've been there.
I've had the supervisor tell mewell, just toughen up.
And it's like what the hell doyou mean by that?
I've been through hell myself.
What does toughening up mean?
And, yeah, started a reallylong dark chapter and thankfully
(32:25):
I've had my own therapy to getme through some of that and know
that you know, know I did mytime and I'd love to just share
any help with first respondersout there that, hey, I know that
you work hard every day on thefarm and then you go and
volunteer, leave your family,leave dinner to go deal with
(32:46):
somebody's worst day, and veryrarely do you ever get a call.
That's a blessing.
It's always something that'sgoing to potential trauma every
time that pager goes off.
So please get with me on that,Sam, as we get ready to wrap up
here.
You know your time is very,very important to me.
(33:07):
What are your final words forthe poultry industry?
Sam Kabert (33:19):
Well, I think it's so easy to put it this way A lot
of people I work with would bemore in an office environment,
imagining that there's peoplelistening that are actually in
the field, not just like anoffice environment.
You have a really big advantagebecause I hear so often from
people just being stuck at adesk and stuck out, stuck
indoors.
To be outdoors and to be ableto just connect with the
(33:41):
stillness.
You know, it's not like I'm notgetting woo here, I'm just
being honest, like maybe it's abird, maybe it's the change of
the wind, and just noticingthese small things and taking a
deep breath outside, like I mean, that is such a gift.
But we don't always see thingsthat are right in front of us as
a gift.
So I'm really really intomindset shifts and into like
(34:04):
those small moments being likehow is this right here really
serving me and how can I takeadvantage of this to really
check in with myself?
And if you're working outdoorsand in your body, like in a lot
of ways that's a huge advantageto people versus people that are
just sitting at their deskindoors all day.
Brandon Mulnix (34:22):
You know yeah, there's, there's definitely a a
difference.
As I hear you, I you're givingme permission to go and sit in
the woods and hunt and do thethings like fish and just be one
with the sunshine and nature.
That's what I heard, that'swhat I'm taking from it, which
is fair.
I mean you see a picture ofGlacier National Park in the
(34:43):
background, because that's myhappy place.
That's where I'm most grounded,where the air is thinnest and
the people are.
The lack of people areimportant in those spaces, but
but no, Sam, thank you for yourtime.
Thank you for you know caringabout the mental health of not
(35:05):
only the industry but also thefirst responders.
Thank you for for being a gueston our show.
Yeah, brandon, thank you somuch for having me and for being
a guest on our show.
Sam Kabert (35:11):
Yeah, brandon, thank you so much for having me and
for taking a chance on someoneoutside of your industry and to
talk about a topic that isvulnerable, and the fact that
you are showing up for yourlisteners and giving them access
to tools like this.
You're just such an amazingresource in person, so I've
really enjoyed the time thatwe've had to connect and I
(35:33):
appreciate the opportunity toshare.
Brandon Mulnix (35:36):
Poultry Leadership Podcast listeners.
You know when I bring youguests like Sam, it's not taking
a risk, it's making aninvestment in you.
It's not easy to get connectedand find and vet the people that
you know really are importantto you for the industry.
But give it a shot, take a deepbreath, look into what Sam has
(35:59):
to offer, look into whatever youcan do to improve your mental
health as a leader, as a person,because that's what's going to
help you provide the best person, not only for yourself but for
your family, for your coworkers,because, to me, if you go
through life and all you'redoing is fighting the demons,
(36:22):
fighting the trauma, that's hard, that's hard.
Let's get you on the other side, where you're absolutely
enjoying having hope, lovinglife and just being the best
version of yourself.
So can't go without saying thankyou to our sponsor, Prism
Controls.
They do what it takes to get tokeep the show going, keep it on
the air, help me be availableto bring you guests like Sam.
(36:44):
So, poultry listeners, pleaseshare this with somebody,
whether they're a firstresponder, whether they're
poultry folks.
Just let's get the message out,let's get them help, let's get
them realize that they're notalone.
And, as always, thank you forlistening.
Have a great day.
Welcome to the Poultry Leadership Podcast.
I'm your host, Brandon Mulnix,and on today's episode we're
going to talk about mentalhealth.
Today we're going to be talkingabout it because this is a very
important topic to me.
This is a very important topicto me as a first responder, as
(00:48):
somebody who did 20 years in thefield, in the trenches, being a
paramedic.
Mental health really shaped mylife in both positive and
negative ways, and so I'm reallyglad that I ran into today's
guest, Sam Kabert.
Now, Sam is unique.
We've had some greatconversations leading up to this
podcast episode, so as Iintroduce him, I want you to
(01:11):
know that this guy's amazing.
He really does love the subject, he values the subject and he
really values first responders.
So I'm excited to get into thatwith him.
But to introduce Sam a littlebit, he's a TEDx speaker, which
that's just cool in itself.
He's also the host of the SoulSeeker podcast, so I have high
(01:32):
expectations for how he performson this podcast as well, as
he's worked with folks likeGoogle, the PGA and other
companies that you would knowout of Silicon Valley over the
years, as well as around theglobe, just helping others in
their mental health journey.
So with that, welcome to theshow.
Sam Kabert (01:51):
Brandon, what an awesome intro.
Thank you so much.
I'm stoked to be here with you,and I'm here for it all.
So wherever this takes us,let's go.
Brandon Mulnix (02:01):
Hey Sam, I cheated.
I looked online for your intro.
Can you share with the audiencewho you are?
Sam Kabert (02:07):
Yeah, totally.
So I was just mentioning to youbefore as well.
Like for me, ever since I wasyoung, I didn't really know what
I wanted to do.
When I grew up, I just knew Iwanted this elusive state of
work-life balance and fastforwarding from junior high high
school, when that was like, hey, I don't know what I want, but
I know I want to enjoy my life.
(02:28):
Right, fast forward to 31 yearsold.
I had built my business up to aseven figure company with no
employees, just virtualassistants.
So for any of the businessowners out there, I think we can
relate to like it's.
It's a lot when you areresponsible for other people and
personalities, and anyone in HRas well.
(02:49):
So, anyways, I was just workingwith VAs.
I didn't have employees, Ibuilt a seven-figure company
while working less than fourhours a day, and I was actually
named to Silicon Valley's 40under 40 list that year as well.
And what's fascinating is,despite having reached all my
goals, having financial freedomat the time and I could do what
(03:11):
I wanted to do when I wanted todo it, I had work-life balance,
I was going through a numbingdepression, and that was back in
2019.
So I really got to this rockbottom where the universe I mean
to get woo for a moment herestarted to send me these
experiences like breath work,like a journey with just myself
(03:32):
and my breath, where nothingelse involved, just breathing
for about an hour and a halfwith a facilitator, where I
literally felt reborn and it wasthe most wild sensation of my
life that I was like there's gotto be something more here.
So that's what sent me on thisjourney of going within, really
addressing my mental andemotional health.
(03:52):
And here I am now, six yearslater.
I've become a yoga instructor,I lead men's groups, a
breathwork practitioner, amaster practitioner in MER.
That's mental, emotionalrelease for complex PTSD and NLP
and hypnosis.
So that's kind of what I'm upto now and how I got here.
Brandon Mulnix (04:12):
So, Sam, you're not my usual guest.
My usual guest is somebody fromthe poultry industry, someone
that is an expert in that field.
But what's interesting is is, Ifound, as someone who was in a
field that should have hadreally good mental health
support sometimes we don't findwhat we're looking for within
(04:32):
our current network, and that'swhy bringing you on and sharing
some of what you've been verysuccessful in doing for not only
the first responders we'vealready talked about, but also
for individuals, you knowindividuals high functioning
athletes, high functioningexecutives, people that are
struggling with a lot of burnoutand a lot of things that you
(04:55):
would think, man, they've got itall together, just like you
thought.
You know you were at a pointwhere you had it all together,
you know.
So, for the listeners, I'm justasking you guys, bear with me.
This is something unique, thisis something different, but, man
, I think this really will helpyou If you're suffering from
burnout, if you're a leader whojust doesn't have it all
(05:18):
together.
Everybody thinks you do.
This is for you.
So, Sam, I'm setting the barpretty high, but as we get going
, you know, when I talk aboutmental health for leaders, let's
dive into that subjectspecifically.
Why is it important for aleader to have good mental
health?
Sam Kabert (05:36):
Yeah, and before I get into that, I'll mention as
well like I am from SiliconValley, a town about 30 minutes
South.
It's called Gilroy.
It's the garlic capital of theworld, and I grew up with goats,
horses, chickens, roosters mydad was just talking about new
chickens he got just yesterdayand my neighbors out here in
Santa Cruz, a beach town.
(05:57):
My neighbors were kind of boxedin, but literally I hear their
rooster crow and the chicken, soit's kind of funny.
Anyways, though, having saidall that, mental and emotional
health is so important foreveryone.
You know, leadership is a broad, it's a broad term, right?
(06:18):
I think this applies to all ofus, because we're all leaders in
our own unique way.
We can either lead ourself, howwe show up for ourselves, we
can be a leader within ourfamily and being a role model,
you know or in the workplace allthese different areas.
And right now it's a beautifultime as it relates to mental
health, because in the past fewyears, people have really opened
up to de-stigmatizing mentalhealth.
(06:39):
Yet I actually believe what'sas important or more important
than mental health is emotionalhealth, and I do believe that's
going to be the next wave.
And it's funny because, likeyou know this, brandon,
especially like being a firstresponder and whatnot, and a man
especially probably I'mstereotyping and generalizing,
but, you know in a more man's,man type role and industry than
(07:04):
like Silicon Valley with liketech nerds, you know, and geeks
or whatever, and I'm just usingbroad terms here.
I'm not calling anyone out orbeing judgmental, just using
broad terms.
Point being, though, like ittakes anyone, but especially in
a business environment, andespecially if you're a man, to
be vulnerable to talk about yourmental health, then, when it
(07:27):
comes to emotional health, likewhat we're talking about here is
our feelings, and we're alllike, well, oh, no, no, no, no,
I don't want to talk about myfeelings.
That's like touchy feely, butwait a second.
How, how do you make decisions?
How do you decide what you'regoing to eat?
Right, what do you feel likeeating when you talk about your
workouts?
And every decision we make isbased off of feeling, yet we're
like I don't want to go therefor some reason.
(07:50):
So, to wrap this up, like interms of why mental and
emotional health is so importantfor everyone, leaders, is
because it allows us to behonest with what we are actually
feeling.
Something that you and I talkedabout previously was
compartmentalization, and we canunpack this a bit more.
But when we compartmentalizewe're basically like, hey, I
(08:12):
can't address that thought orthat feeling that's coming up
right now because I have to bepresent with what I'm doing.
So then we metaphorically putit in a box in the back recesses
of our mind, we wrap it up andwe never go back and open up
that box.
So compartmentalizationalthough yes, it can be useful
in the moment it's actuallydoing us a disservice if we
(08:34):
never unpack that box.
So I help people to get to theroot of all their different
baggage and issues, because weall have it that we've left
unprocessed, so that we can getto the root, release it in real
time.
Brandon Mulnix (08:47):
As you talked about that.
It's interesting because partof mental health is the positive
emotions that sometimes we boxup as leaders and we have no one
to celebrate with.
I was just talking the otherday with a newer leader and
saying, dude, if you needsomeone to call and just say,
you know, say your proudestmoments of the week, call me,
(09:08):
because there's so many times asleaders we don't.
You know.
Our employees may tell us thegood things that they do, but
who do we get to tell our goodthings to?
And being a first responder,being a farmer, being business
guy, we have wins.
How do you balance those, thosetwo different boxes that you
compartmentalize, can you?
Can you jump into that one alittle bit?
Sam Kabert (09:30):
Yeah, if I'm not answering it the right way, just
feel free to chime in.
But as it relates to like thecelebrating the wins, like even
before this, you celebrate a winwith me and I'm like hell, yeah
, that's awesome, that's amazing, Right.
And a lot of times it's funnybecause, whether it's a win or
it's something where we'reasking someone to like quote
unquote hold space for us, whichbasically means like we're
(09:53):
venting or getting something offour chest that we've been
holding there's thissubconscious expectation that
the person is going to react acertain way, and by subconscious
I mean that the subconscious orthe unconscious makes up 95% of
our awareness, everything thatwe don't have access to.
So we aren't realizing a lot oftimes, when we're celebrating a
(10:16):
win with someone else or whenwe're venting someone else, that
like hey, on a subconsciouslevel, I'm expecting them to
react or respond a certain way.
That's not why we do it, butthat it does come into on a
subconscious level.
I'm expecting them to react orrespond a certain way.
That's not why we do it, butthat it does come into play on a
subconscious level.
When, then, that person doesn'trespond in the way that you want
it, you feel like you'restanding naked there, right,
(10:38):
you're exposed, right.
Like wait a second, that's notwhat I expected, like why can't
you be in this with me?
Whether it's like thenegativity or the positivity.
So this all plays a role inmental and emotional health,
because it's called shadow workand Carl Jung, the Swiss
psychiatrist, he coined the termthe shadow.
And the shadow just means tomake the unconscious conscious.
(11:01):
It's not about things that arebad or good or bad or right or
wrong or anything like that,it's just about becoming aware.
So now, all of a sudden, ifwe're celebrating a win or event
, such whatever it is, we knowwhy we're showing up that way,
so we don't have thatsubconscious expectation from
the other person, so that wearen't feeling worse after
(11:24):
sharing.
You know.
Brandon Mulnix (11:25):
No, that's a great, great feeling.
You know, I've had that timewhere I got to share a success
with somebody and it kind of hiton deaf ears and I'm like, was
that really a win?
Was that good enough for them?
Now, my wins weren't goodenough for them.
Now I'm disappointed and I just, you know, you just keep
compartmentalizing stuff likethat.
But as an industry, you know,mental health has really come to
(11:48):
light.
Just in the past year I've seencompanies that have really
highlighted their drive to helptheir employees.
You know, from suicide, from,you know, people that didn't
think, for whatever reason, theyneeded to continue on, and
(12:14):
that's hard.
One of the other things isthere's people dealing with the
mental health effects of avianinfluenza and losing their birds
.
I mean, just as we're recordingthis, more farmers are, you
know, losing more birds and justwhat it takes for someone to go
in and just depopulate a houseis just, it's tragic.
But yet leaders are asked to doit and with their teams, and
(12:39):
then be able to kind of helptheir teams recover.
Any thoughts from yourperspective on the poultry
industry and what we're goingthrough?
Sam Kabert (12:47):
Yeah, you know, the first thing I'll address is the
topic of suicide.
You know that hits home andwhen you brought that up I had
chills go all through my body.
It's like, oh, here we go again.
I just lost a close friend, afamily member, to suicide about
two months ago.
I'm wearing the wristband.
It was April 12th, so almosttwo months at this point and
(13:10):
that's the second time in mylife now I've become a survivor
of suicide, losing someone closeto me.
And yeah, it's actuallysomething that's come up at
least once, one other time todayand a few times yesterday, and
I'm like, oh, interesting,that's coming up again.
You know, um, but suicide is avery real thing and I it doesn't
(13:34):
matter what industry it is.
Really, I think a lot of itcomes down to not being
authentic with how we're feeling.
Like I, I'm really aboutemotional health more in mental
health.
You know I talk about mentalhealth as well, of course, but
it you know I'm talking aboutfeelings here and mental health
(13:55):
is more about thoughts.
You were mentioning how mentalhealth is being talked about a
lot more and what I hear peoplesaying is like hey, about a lot
more.
And what I hear people saying islike, hey, if you need to
address mental health, youshould do some meditation.
And when you're sitting therein meditation, notice a thought.
Then let the thought drift away.
Or maybe you're experiencinganxiety, or experiencing stress
(14:19):
or loss, perhaps from you knowwhat you're describing in your
industry.
Well, try breathing, becausebreathing can help you to cope
with that.
And I actually believe that'sthe worst advice you can give
someone, because that justcreates more
compartmentalization.
Right, it's like, hey, in thismoment I'm experiencing stress,
I'm experiencing anxiety, I'mexperiencing sadness, I'm
(14:41):
experiencing grief, whatever itis.
Okay, let me just put aBand-Aid on that so I don't have
to feel that right now.
Okay, now I I feel a little bitbetter.
It's still there, but I don'tnotice it as much, and now I'm
just going to move forward withmy life.
And then, when you put yourhead on the pillow at night,
you're just like, oh, there'sjust this sinking feeling.
You don't know what it isbecause you put a band-aid on it
(15:02):
, so it's not right in front ofyou.
And then, when you wake up inthe morning, you're just kind of
like, okay, whatever, you know,because you have a bandaid on
it, so it helps you somewhat.
But is it actually getting tothe root?
It's not.
Brandon Mulnix (15:15):
You know, as you were sharing with that.
You know, it definitely isinteresting that this mental
health, this emotional I'm anemotional guy.
I can.
I cry at everything.
People pick on me all the timewhen I'm watching a movie.
Maybe it's, maybe it's my heart, maybe it's just.
You know, I'm, I'm sappy, butthat's okay, cause I realized
(15:35):
that that's who I am.
And to repress that's a badthing.
But when it comes to leadershipand as you're talking, you
could just imagine how manypeople think that their
responsibility when they get towork is to shut down emotions,
shut down mental health issues,like they can turn them off, and
turn them on like a switch orthe emotion or what they're
(16:08):
dealing with as a distraction,and then perform at peak
performance and then go home andthen turn it all back on again
because the problem didn't leavethem.
I mean, is that somethingthat's you know?
You've noticed in yourprofession and what you're doing
and how you help leaders?
Sam Kabert (16:19):
A hundred percent.
That's how people operate.
You know, like, have you seenthat show, severance on Apple?
I'll have to watch it.
It's fascinating.
It's been out for a few years.
Then they took a hiatus and itcame back, I think, this season,
so I think it's two seasons orsomething like that.
But the basic premise is there'sa medical procedure that
(16:40):
happens and when these people goto work they know nothing about
their personal life, and whenthey come home they know nothing
about their work life.
And I know, in the firstresponder scene that's huge,
that's almost what they teach,right, and not just like first
responders, most careers, like.
When we think of work-lifebalance, that's exactly what
(17:00):
we're doing.
We're separating the two asopposed to integrating them,
because we're only one person.
Right, we say, oh in your worklife, oh in your personal life.
Who do you know?
That's living two lives, likeliterally living two lives.
We're only living one life butyet we separate it like that.
So we're lying to ourselves, andwhen we lie to ourselves, we're
(17:22):
harboring that shame orharboring that guilt, whatever
it is, and that can manifest ina whole host of dis-ease in the
body, because the body istypically what happens when
we're experiencing an illness is.
It's the body speaking to you,trying to get your attention,
and that's where the shadow workcomes in, being like oh wow, is
this pain about something else?
(17:43):
Let me actually feel into thatand see what's here so that I
can move through it versus no,no, no, no, no.
Let me just get somepharmaceuticals or whatever it
is to just numb that and trustthat's going to happen.
Meanwhile now you're having abunch of gut issues because your
gut microbiome is all messed up, because you're taking
pharmaceuticals and notaccessing the pharmaceutical
(18:06):
natural holisticness of yourbody in terms of regenerative
health in a human form, you know.
Brandon Mulnix (18:14):
Yeah, as you were talking, you mentioned the
pharmaceuticals, but it was morelike when I get home, I just
need just that beer.
Sam Kabert (18:24):
That too yeah.
Brandon Mulnix (18:25):
I need to go for that run, which isn't a bad
thing.
I'm not going to say thatthat's a bad thing or a good
thing.
I like to run, but it's.
There's so many different wayspeople cope instead of deal.
So, yeah, it's, it's achallenge in that, but that best
advice I ever got from somebodyone time was and take a deep
breath.
That best advice I ever gotfrom somebody one time was take
(18:46):
a deep breath and it's like whyis that such good advice, Sam?
Why is taking a?
Sam Kabert (18:54):
deep breath.
Such good advice.
Yeah, this is going to calmyour nervous system.
So this is what I teach.
This is what I'm all about.
It's all about breath work andif you'd like, I could guide us
through like a minute or two ofbreathwork, would you like that?
I'd like that.
Cool, all right.
So before we get into this, I'lljust mention that science has
(19:15):
something called the 90 secondrule and it teaches that our
body has a 90 secondphysiological response when we
experience an emotion, and it'sbeen said that emotions are
energy in motion, and that'sbacked up by the scientific fact
.
So if we don't allow ourself tofeel what's coming to the
surface, it gets stuck and itgets stored in the body.
(19:35):
So by leveraging our breath, wecan allow that energy to move
through us.
So what we'll do right now forall of you listening, like if
you're driving or doing anythingwhere you can't close your eyes
, you can breathe with us.
Just be mindful, don't closeyour eyes, otherwise I'd invite
our listeners to take a seat nowand, brandon, for yourself and
(19:55):
for me and for anyone that canjust beginning to shut down your
eyes and sitting straight upand feeling your feet on the
floor and, through your nose,inhaling all the way up, sipping
in a bit more air at the topand through the mouth, a big
sigh let it go.
(20:16):
And again through the nose,inhaling up as you let the belly
and the back body expand, andbringing that breath all the way
up to the top, sipping in a bitmore at the top and just go
ahead and hold your breath here,just holding the breath and now
(20:37):
just sighing it out Let it go,let it go.
And this next breath in inhalingall the way up, sipping in a
bit more air at the top andholding the breath and just
allow one feeling to comethrough and giving it a name
(20:57):
being with that feeling now andsighing it out Let it go, let it
all out.
And we'll do one final onethrough the nose, inhaling up,
sipping in a bit more air at thetop, hold the breath, roll up
(21:18):
the eyes as if you were to lookat your eyebrows, but with your
eyes closed, and just imagineyourself in the next few hours
as you go throughout your day.
How do you want to feel?
Ease, confident, joy, happiness, whatever it is.
Allowing yourself to feel thatemotion now and then go ahead
and sigh it out let it go, letit go, let it all out and just
(21:40):
laying the breath, return to thenatural rhythm and flickering
the eyes back open.
Just a simple exercise, notgoing super deep, but a quick
little reset Like do you feellike some shifts?
Brandon Mulnix (21:56):
Oh yeah, I could feel it in my shoulders, feel
it in my body.
Most of my tension always fallsin my shoulders.
Sam Kabert (22:03):
Ah, that's good to know, I know where the muscles
are.
Brandon Mulnix (22:06):
I know at the end of a stressful day that my
shoulder is going to hurt and inthe middle of about second
breath, it was when my shoulderswent back, relaxed.
Sam Kabert (22:18):
So to answer your question, like that's the felt
experience, to answer yourquestion, the scientific answer
is like a lot of times whatwe're doing is first we're
activating the parasympatheticnervous system, which is rest
and digest.
Next we can get into the vagusnerve and the vagus nerve is
going to help us go deeper intorest and digest.
We're balancing out the carbondioxide to oxygen levels as well
(22:44):
and then finally, like there'sactivation of what's the theta
brainwave states and not to gettoo deep on neuroscience, but
there's three different rangesof beta brainwave states and not
to get too deep on neuroscience, but there's three different
ranges of beta brainwave statesand that's typically like high
performance not necessarily flowstates, but like you know doing
and the wakeful state.
High beta would be like highstress, right.
(23:06):
A lower beta would be justnormal day-to-day stuff, and
then we start to shift intotheta, as we're doing breath
work I know this is just about atwo-minute exercise we just did
so it's not like going to bethe most impactful thing, but it
can start to slow down thosebrainwave states so that we get
(23:26):
into easier state.
And sometimes what I'll do toois lead people to specifically
feel a negative emotion so thatthey can process it and then
notice at the end there there'sfuture pacing like and see
yourself for the rest of the day.
How do you want to feel?
And since now we're enteringinto the theta brainwave state,
(23:47):
we're actually rewiring theneural networks in the brain to
fire and wire positiveconnections that actually feel
good.
So that's a little bit of thenerdy science behind it.
Brandon Mulnix (23:59):
Well, you are talking to a tech company with
nerds You've mentioned itearlier about the geeks and
nerds and I'm like oh, he'stalking about our company.
Sam Kabert (24:09):
Hey, I'm into this stuff too, right.
So you know allself-deprecating here and no
judgment or anything like that,of course, so, Sam, you know we
talk about our individualemotional and mental health.
Brandon Mulnix (24:31):
Let's talk about how we translate this to a team
people that we're responsiblefor.
Can you lead us kind of throughhow important it is for us to,
as leaders, care about ouremployees in this way?
Sam Kabert (24:38):
100%, Brandon.
So first things first, theacronym WIFL.
Have you heard that one before?
I have not yeah, I ask it allthe time.
Rarely has anyone ever heard it.
I was lucky enough back in like2013, when I was in the office
supply industry, to go to aconference and there was a
breakout session for youngprofessionals, and they taught
(24:59):
us the acronym WIFL, and theidea is that it stands for what
I feel like expressing and whatthey taught us back then.
I mean, this was back in 2013,in the stale office supply
industry that they taught usthis, but it was like open up a
meeting with a Wiffle where it'screating the space where people
can express something, andmaybe like in a business
(25:23):
environment, right, you'rehosting this meeting and you're
seeing that person in themeeting that just seems like
they don't want to be there,right, and we start to make
assumptions of what's going on,but we have no idea what's going
on their world.
Maybe something stressful justhappened, or they're feeling
some anxiety for something lateron.
Anything could have happened byopening up the space with, like,
(25:45):
what I feel like expressing.
It's not asking everyone in themeeting to share and start
crying or anything like that.
It's just like 30 or 60 secondsof like hey, if there's
anything that's keeping you awayfrom being fully present right
now.
This is an opportunity to shareand now, when that person
shares that thing, we're nolonger making assumptions.
(26:06):
Instead, we're seeing them withcompassion and we're connecting
like humans, because in workenvironments we're so focused on
doing and just like gain theobjections.
And then there's meetings forthe sake of meetings right, that
as well.
So the Wiffle is great toconnect with people.
And the other thing that I dois even on, like my podcast, I
(26:27):
open it up with three simplebreaths, nothing big, just like
simple breaths and like, hey,let's just ground with some
breath.
So those are just twoactionable things that you guys
can take with you and integrateinto your meetings.
Brandon Mulnix (26:42):
Those are a great acronym.
I like that one and the takingdeep breaths even at the
beginning of a meeting.
We're all in it together iswhat I keep saying.
You know when, when the team issuffering or struggling, I'm,
as your leader, struggling withyou and it's okay.
You know, asking questions ofhow can I help and truly being
(27:06):
genuine about it and making surethat you're not just saying it
to check the box off, that I gotto ask this as a leader.
No, what I mean this is yourteam.
You spend more time with thesepeople.
You spend more time with themthan you do your own family Most
of the time.
Sam Kabert (27:21):
Thank you for saying that, yeah.
Brandon Mulnix (27:24):
If and and and, and I'm not the right person for
every work environment.
Believe me, I'd probably fit inin the office supply
environment and I go to theoffices as you were saying that.
I'm like, oh, that's where Irecognize you from.
Is the office Wait?
Sam Kabert (27:39):
what.
Brandon Mulnix (27:40):
The show the Office.
Yeah, yeah yeah, no, Sam wasnot on the Office.
Yeah, yeah, but no, I canenvision that environment,
though, of stress, and we allare unique and have our own
stresses at work, whether it'sour boss, employees, what
they're going through,everything it's all good.
So, Sam, as a leader yourself,you've led teams, you've led
(28:06):
companies.
What other areas am I missingthat we should be talking about
today here on the podcast?
Sam Kabert (28:15):
Yeah, one thing I'll mention is I've talked a lot
about like mental and emotionalhealth, but what does that
actually mean?
So think of it this way likethoughts are the language of the
mind and feelings are thelanguage of the body.
When we experience a thought,it sends a signal to the body
which produces a feeling.
So that is why it's soimportant, because if we don't
(28:36):
allow ourself to feel thatfeeling, then we get stuck in
mental thought loops and we justruminate there.
So for that reason, I combinesubconscious reprogramming with
nervous system regulationthrough breathwork, and I have
found that is the missing link,because in all of like the
different trainings and groupsand books and podcasts and
(28:58):
different things that I've goneto, it's usually one or the
other People are usuallyfocusing on like the mind and
mindset, or they're focusing onlike nervous system and feelings
, and I'm like wait a second,like we need to be merging these
two together.
So that's why I'm so passionateabout that.
Brandon Mulnix (29:15):
So many of our industry the poultry industry,
the farming industry are firstresponders.
They're military folks.
You've got a passion for that.
Can you share with me theservices that you offer the
first responders?
Sam Kabert (29:34):
Yeah, back in in college, uh, I was I don't know
18, 19 years old and I was inthe living room when, um, my
friend had hung himself, when Imentioned earlier about suicide,
and I remember the paramedicscoming, I remember being in the
hospital all night, you know,and and just really, I think the
pandemic in a lot of waysreally opened my eyes further to
(29:57):
, uh, like the heroes on thefront line, if you will, and I'm
a keynote speaker as well.
So I've spoken to a lot ofdifferent industries and in 2024
I started to gain speaking toresponder groups and then it was
like, oh my God, I'm reallyseeing how much this work is
(30:18):
needed with first responders.
So I started a nonprofit andbasically I'm offering like free
sessions and free workshops,whether it's in person or remote
, so all kinds of differentthings, from short breathwork
sessions that are about 30minutes to day-long intensives
where we're doing deeper workand breathwork journeys.
(30:39):
And this is trauma release.
The other way I support firstresponders is through MER.
That stands for mental,emotional release, and this gets
to the root.
And by getting to the root weare able to reprogram the
subconscious mind that washolding onto those traumas so
that we can actually releasethem, and some history about MER
(31:02):
.
Like Tony Robbins, what he'sutilizing is NLP
neuro-linguistic programming andhe learned from Tad James back
in the 1980s who createdtimeline therapy.
Tad James' son, dr Matt, tooktimeline therapy and created MER
to enhance it mental emotionalrelease and Dr Matt actually
(31:24):
became a doctor just to doscientific studies to prove the
efficacy of MER and how it isable to wipe out even complex
PTSD.
So this is amazing work and,yeah, if anyone's interested,
just reach out to me and we canchat more for sure.
Brandon Mulnix (31:40):
Yeah, I'll have your contact information in the
show notes or listeners.
If you have any need for thisor feel that you'd like to look
into it more, please reach outto me and I'll connect you with
Sam.
This is one of those thingsthat really means a lot to me
and it's anything we can do toconnect and get you or your
(32:02):
department you know help.
Then we want to do that Becauseyou know I've been there.
I've had the supervisor tell mewell, just toughen up.
And it's like what the hell doyou mean by that?
I've been through hell myself.
What does toughening up mean?
And, yeah, started a reallylong dark chapter and thankfully
(32:25):
I've had my own therapy to getme through some of that and know
that you know, know I did mytime and I'd love to just share
any help with first respondersout there that, hey, I know that
you work hard every day on thefarm and then you go and
volunteer, leave your family,leave dinner to go deal with
(32:46):
somebody's worst day, and veryrarely do you ever get a call.
That's a blessing.
It's always something that'sgoing to potential trauma every
time that pager goes off.
So please get with me on that,Sam, as we get ready to wrap up
here.
You know your time is very,very important to me.
(33:07):
What are your final words forthe poultry industry?
Sam Kabert (33:19):
Well, I think it's so easy to put it this way A lot
of people I work with would bemore in an office environment,
imagining that there's peoplelistening that are actually in
the field, not just like anoffice environment.
You have a really big advantagebecause I hear so often from
people just being stuck at adesk and stuck out, stuck
indoors.
To be outdoors and to be ableto just connect with the
(33:41):
stillness.
You know, it's not like I'm notgetting woo here, I'm just
being honest, like maybe it's abird, maybe it's the change of
the wind, and just noticingthese small things and taking a
deep breath outside, like I mean, that is such a gift.
But we don't always see thingsthat are right in front of us as
a gift.
So I'm really really intomindset shifts and into like
(34:04):
those small moments being likehow is this right here really
serving me and how can I takeadvantage of this to really
check in with myself?
And if you're working outdoorsand in your body, like in a lot
of ways that's a huge advantageto people versus people that are
just sitting at their deskindoors all day.
Brandon Mulnix (34:22):
You know yeah, there's, there's definitely a a
difference.
As I hear you, I you're givingme permission to go and sit in
the woods and hunt and do thethings like fish and just be one
with the sunshine and nature.
That's what I heard, that'swhat I'm taking from it, which
is fair.
I mean you see a picture ofGlacier National Park in the
(34:43):
background, because that's myhappy place.
That's where I'm most grounded,where the air is thinnest and
the people are.
The lack of people areimportant in those spaces, but
but no, Sam, thank you for yourtime.
Thank you for you know caringabout the mental health of not
(35:05):
only the industry but also thefirst responders.
Thank you for for being a gueston our show.
Yeah, brandon, thank you somuch for having me and for being
a guest on our show.
Sam Kabert (35:11):
Yeah, brandon, thank you so much for having me and
for taking a chance on someoneoutside of your industry and to
talk about a topic that isvulnerable, and the fact that
you are showing up for yourlisteners and giving them access
to tools like this.
You're just such an amazingresource in person, so I've
really enjoyed the time thatwe've had to connect and I
(35:33):
appreciate the opportunity toshare.
Brandon Mulnix (35:36):
Poultry Leadership Podcast listeners.
You know when I bring youguests like Sam, it's not taking
a risk, it's making aninvestment in you.
It's not easy to get connectedand find and vet the people that
you know really are importantto you for the industry.
But give it a shot, take a deepbreath, look into what Sam has
(35:59):
to offer, look into whatever youcan do to improve your mental
health as a leader, as a person,because that's what's going to
help you provide the best person, not only for yourself but for
your family, for your coworkers,because, to me, if you go
through life and all you'redoing is fighting the demons,
(36:22):
fighting the trauma, that's hard, that's hard.
Let's get you on the other side, where you're absolutely
enjoying having hope, lovinglife and just being the best
version of yourself.
So can't go without saying thankyou to our sponsor, Prism
Controls.
They do what it takes to get tokeep the show going, keep it on
the air, help me be availableto bring you guests like Sam.
(36:44):
So, poultry listeners, pleaseshare this with somebody,
whether they're a firstresponder, whether they're
poultry folks.
Just let's get the message out,let's get them help, let's get
them realize that they're notalone.
And, as always, thank you forlistening.
Have a great day.
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