April 9, 2025 • 37 mins
What drives you to get out of bed each morning? Is it just to collect a paycheck, or is there something deeper fueling your motivation? Brian Bosché, author of "The Purpose Factor," never expected his life to take such a dramatic turn. After achieving his dream job as a national journalist only to lose it a year later—along with his marriage ending and unresolved childhood trauma surfacing—Brian found himself in a dark depression searching for meaning.
This crisis led him to develop a revolutionary approach to purpose discovery. Rather than viewing purpose as some mystical revelation that comes while backpacking through Europe or staring at sunsets, Brian created a systematic process that delivers clarity in just 20-25 minutes. His definition cuts through the confusion: "Purpose is the best of what you have to help others."
Throughout our conversation, Brian dismantles common myths about purpose. It's not your job title—a lesson he learned painfully when his broadcasting career abruptly ended. It's not simply following your passion, which he defines as "a barely controllable emotion" and therefore an unreliable decision-making tool. Instead, purpose functions as your primary decision-making framework, helping you consistently experience fulfillment by contributing your unique combination of natural abilities, acquired skills, and personal wisdom.
The impact extends beyond personal satisfaction. Google's Project Aristotle found purpose-centered teams were 300% more effective than their counterparts. Yet many remain stuck in what Brian calls "the miserable normal," preferring familiar discomfort over uncertain growth. He reveals how childhood experiences of rejection create adult fears that manifest as people-pleasing, perfectionism, and procrastination—all barriers to purpose-driven living.
Whether you're knee-deep in the daily challenges of leadership or questioning your life's direction, this episode offers practical wisdom for experiencing fulfillment on demand. As Brian reminds us, in a world increasingly dominated by social media and AI, our greatest differentiator will be our ability to create authentic human connections while giving our best to others.
Ready to discover your purpose? Visit purposetest.com for Brian's assessment or grab "The Purpose Factor" on Amazon—and join the community of purpose-driven leaders transforming themselves and those around them.
https://www.thepurposefactor.com/
Brian Bosché-https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianbosche/
Hosted by Brandon Mulnix - Director of Commercial Accounts - Prism Controls
The Poultry Leadership Podcast is only possible because of its sponsor, Prism Controls
Find out more about them at www.prismcontrols.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brandon Mulnix (00:26):
Welcome to the Poultry Leadership Podcast.
I'm your host, Brandon Mulnix.
I've had that period in my lifewhere I just sit back and I go
man, what is my purpose?
What should I be doing?
What has God put me on thisplanet to do?
And what's interesting about itis today's guest actually wrote
a book called the PurposeFactor.
(00:47):
Coming across this book and notonly reading the book,
listening to the audio book andjust going through this thing
multiple times I had to get thisguy on On the show.
Today I have Brian Boucher.
Brian is the author of thePurpose Factor and Brian also
shares just a love of helpingpeople find their purpose.
Brian, welcome to the show.
(01:07):
Thanks for having me.
Brandon, appreciate that.
Hey, brian, you're an author.
You've got a mission and visionand a purpose for your life.
Who's Brian?
Brian Bosché (01:15):
This is not the space that I would have ever
expected to end up in.
If you were like zoom back intoBrian's past at 16 years old
and you're like Brian, what doyou want to do with your life?
Back into Brian's past at 16years old and you're like Brian,
what do you want to do withyour life?
And Brian would have told you Iwant to be a national news
anchor.
That's what I would have toldyou, and that became my career
pursuit, not only from the endof high school on into college
and into law school.
Everything was focused onbecoming this national news
(01:37):
anchor, broadcaster,communicator and it's funny,
right, because that's a skillsetthat I use every single day
today, but it's not how Ithought I would use it.
When I got to the end of lawschool, this purpose timeline
began, if you will, because Ifinished law school, I got my
dream job as a nationaljournalist covering government
corruption and terrorism, andthat dream job lasted a whopping
(01:58):
one year.
While I was in law school, too,I got married, and that marriage
ended the same month I got laidoff from my dream job, and when
you go through something likethat especially for me, because
I had never experienceddepression growing up or in
college or in law school.
I mean, law school is kind ofpainful, but I didn't experience
depression and I was plungedinto a very dark depression
(02:18):
rapidly and what was alsoimpacting that was an undealt
with childhood sexual traumafrom when I was seven years old.
So all these three primarythings layoff, divorce,
childhood sexual trauma beingvery undealt with put me in a
place where I was asking all ofmy friends and primarily all the
people that spoke in my life,my mentors.
I was asking them what I shoulddo to get through the season
and all of them kept coming backto this theme hey, brian, you
(02:40):
need to find your purpose,you've got to find your purpose.
And I was a little frustratedbecause they were all super
well-intended and, brandon,maybe you felt this way before
Somebody tells you to dosomething, but it's like, good
luck with that.
And so I started plungingmyself into all of the books,
the research documentaries Imean, if anything related
remotely to purpose, I waswatching it or reading it.
(03:02):
To kind of put a cap on this.
It's like for a year and a halfI just would demolish all this
stuff on purpose.
And then I recognized that therewere like four buckets that
would come up, I realized onepurpose is about living a life
of contribution.
And out came the definitionpurpose is the best of what you
have to help others.
As I read all these experts, Inoticed that there were four
buckets something natural,bucket one, something related to
(03:31):
skills, bucket two, somethingrelated to passion, bucket three
and bucket four, coming of ageand origin story.
And it became this researchworking hypothesis of breaking
purpose down into four elementsand its discovery into a
sequence, and then the ultimatedestination.
For me, this wasn't actuallyabout starting a company.
I was just trying to figurethis out for me, but the
ultimate destination was how canI turn actually about starting
a company?
I was just trying to figurethis out for me, but the
ultimate destination was how canI turn this thing into a
decision-making tool that isconsistently reliable, no matter
(03:53):
the season of my life?
Brandon Mulnix (03:54):
Man, you just went to depths that I could
never imagine.
As you talk about your history,it amazes me how we're all put
on this earth for a purpose.
It took some real trials foryou to find that purpose.
I mean right off the batgetting out of college and
everything's grand and marriageand all these great things and
shocker life didn't turn out theway the 16-year-old Brian wrote
(04:17):
.
Brian Bosché (04:17):
That's right.
Yeah, I was just shy of 10years later that dream that I
had came from when I was 16years old.
You come out of law schoolaround 25, just shy of a decade
of having that dream, you getsmacked in the face with it
being taken away.
And it's a common theme for alot of folks who go after any
dream, it doesn't matter whatindustry it is, whether it's
(04:38):
somebody wants to play in theNFL, somebody wants to own real
estate, somebody wants to own afarm, Somebody wants to become a
national broadcaster.
There's riches in every nicheand there's dreams in every
niche, and I've coached a coupleof NFL football players who
have gotten cut from the NFL andit's a bit of an identity
crisis because one of the bigmyths and Brandon you know this,
one of the big myths aboutpurpose is that purpose is a
(05:00):
certain job.
When somebody says my purposeis to be an NFL player, purpose
is to be this, I was like, well,wait a second.
How many people have you seenother than Brett Favre, who
really pushed the upper limitsof age in the NFL, that it was a
lifetime game?
It's not a lifetime game, whichmeans purpose can't be a
specific job.
Because my first question I'mgoing to ask you is well, what
(05:20):
if you woke up tomorrow anddidn't have that job?
So purpose can't be that.
That's why purpose isessentially a toolbox.
It's a toolbox of things thatyou have to give away, no matter
your job.
Brandon Mulnix (05:31):
I don't need you to call out your age, but how
long you've been working on thisAlmost 12 years, almost 12
years.
Brian Bosché (05:36):
I can call out my age.
I'm 36 years old, but I've beenat this for about almost 12.
Brandon Mulnix (05:41):
Okay, in your book, the Purpose Factor, you've
had a little bit of successwith it.
Can you talk about that?
Brian Bosché (05:49):
a little bit, if I can encourage anybody, because
social media is kind ofdeceiving, right.
Social media is like you scrollthrough it, man.
Let's say you're 16 years oldtoday.
That's different than when Iwas 16, which I didn't have the
social media thing until collegeor whatever.
So people today scroll insocial media in high school
going oh look at thatbillionaire 23-year-old Kylie
Jenner.
If I just post more toInstagram I could be a
billionaire, which is a totallydelusional statement.
(06:11):
It's not true.
And what?
You realize?
That even in the age of socialmedia and now AI, real dreams
still take decades.
Real big dreams still takedecades, or at least years.
Dreams do take years, and it wasa dream of mine to write this
book on purpose even 12 yearsago, and it took six-ish seven
(06:33):
years to do that.
And rejection is a hard thingbecause and there's a lot of
stories you can talk to a lot ofauthors and they'll tell you if
you're going to get a publishedbook, not a self-published book
Our book, the Purpose Factor,its manuscript got turned down
over 70 times in the pursuit ofgetting it published, and so
that alone feels like amilestone.
But then a lot of times themistake that authors make is
(06:55):
they finish the book and theythink the publishing of the book
is the finish line, but it'sactually the start line.
This is where the distributionresponsibility takes over, that
if you believe it can helppeople, you have the duty to get
it in as many hands as possible.
Brandon Mulnix (07:12):
We're talking today to leaders in the poultry
industry, guys that are kneedeep and manure today because
something broke the egg conveyorbroke or the feeder broke, or
something their employee calledin sick All of these things that
people love to focus on becausethat's what's in front of them
(07:33):
today.
What do you have to say to themin regards to finding a purpose
?
Brian Bosché (07:38):
You actually kind of remind me of something.
First of all, that means we'retalking to a whole bunch of
people who are a lot strongerthan me.
They're a lot stronger.
A of all, that means we'retalking to a whole bunch of
people who are a lot strongerthan me.
They're a lot stronger, a lotstronger, a lot better than me.
I'll never forget this episodeof Conan O'Brien had the late
military sniper, chris Kyle, Ithink.
When Chris Kyle sat down in thechair next to Conan, he kept
(08:01):
saying like thank you, sir.
I think this is right.
He's about like thank you, sir,and Conan's like you don't want
to call me, sir, I'm like I'm atalk show host, I'm just an
author.
I'm just an author that mighthave some things that might be
helpful, and so the one thing Iwould say is that it doesn't
matter where we are, where westand, what position we sit in.
(08:26):
John Maxwell says thatleadership is influence, it's
not positional right, and he's areally special friend and
mentor in my life and so I'vegotten to watch that firsthand
is that leadership really isinfluence.
So, no matter where you stand,you have to ask yourself, with
the influence you've been givenover one person, over a team
over yourself.
What are you doing with it?
Because when I look at thepurpose of work generally, the
(08:48):
purpose of work is to get thingsdone and bring people together
to get things done.
If we just want to look at itsfunctional core, it's about
getting things done and bringingpeople together to get things
done.
Now, what's cool about that is Iwas once talking to I can't say
his name, but I was oncetalking to somebody.
He's a very influential personand in the context of this
(09:08):
conversation he said listen,name me the last 10 motivational
talks that changed your life.
And he was talking to me andI'm like in this space and I'm
like, hmm, I think I rattled offlike three.
He's like it's okay, mostpastors can't remember the last
10 sermons they gave.
And then he said now name methe last 10 people that changed
(09:32):
your life.
And that's easy.
I can go way past 10.
I can list off a whole bunch ofpeople that have changed my
life.
And he said it's people inrelationship, authentic
relationship, that change people.
And so when you look at yourself, if you're in the position of
leadership or if you're not in atitled position of leadership,
and you stand shoulder toshoulder on a team of colleagues
(09:55):
and you have influence withthose colleagues, you have the
greatest possible chance,through influence, of changing
somebody's life in authenticrelationship and no matter what
the craft is.
It doesn't matter what thecraft is it could be writing a
book, being an author andspeaking, it could be
woodworking, it could be drivinga NASCAR vehicle, changing
(10:17):
tires on a NASCAR vehicle, itdoesn't matter.
In those team environments westand shoulder to shoulder
together in authenticrelationship and sometimes when
we look at the work, we're likethe work, the work, that's the
thing I've got to focus on.
The work, yes and right,because that's the minimum
requirement of the job.
We've got to get the job done.
But when I look to my left or myright or I look across the
(10:39):
table or I look at the team thatI'm leading, the real work is
finding creative ways, whiledoing the work, to transform the
lives around me.
Now, a lot of people are likewell, what are you talking about
?
The job's a job.
We're just there to get thework done.
That's not really my thing,it's not really my
responsibility.
I'm like kind of, the greatestpossible chance to do excellent
work is to transform the livesof the people on the team you're
(11:03):
in.
Google did this very famousinternal study called Project
Aristotle and one of the bigconclusions of Project Aristotle
?
It was a study that was lookingat effective teams versus
ineffective teams, and one ofthe basic conclusions of the
study was purpose-centered teamswere 300% more effective than
(11:24):
non-purpose-centered teams,which means if I take the time
to change the lives of thepeople around me, we're going to
be more effective anyway.
Brandon Mulnix (11:33):
Going back you mentioned everybody in your
life's like find your purpose,find your purpose.
Sometimes it becomes verycliche when you tell somebody
find your purpose, because I'msorry, I've been there, I don't
know how to find my purpose.
Can you help out with that?
Brian Bosché (11:50):
Yeah, it does feel cliche, because what are the
conclusions there?
Okay, so let's look at thetypical ways people find their
purpose.
We read a book, which I mean, Ihave one of those.
So no knocking on books, right,I have a book.
They listen to podcasts.
They watch YouTube videos.
They go course mastermindconference, whatever it is.
The issue is actually not thedelivery vehicle.
(12:11):
The issue is how we look at it.
For decades, we've looked atpurpose discovery as a very
journey-driven, emotionalizedexperience.
And can somebody find theirpurpose in a journey-driven,
emotionalized experience?
And can somebody find theirpurpose in a journey-driven,
emotionalized experience?
Yes, but not often, way lessthan 1% of the time.
When you watch some gardenvariety tech billionaire giving
(12:32):
a graduation speech, they alwaystalk about how lucky they are
or follow your passion and, kindof side note there, passion is
a horrible decision-making tool.
Because if you look at thedictionary definition of passion
, you're going to find that itsdefinition is a barely
controllable emotion, which,right there, tells you it's not
a reliable decision-making tool.
It's better to look at passionas pull passion meaning the
(12:53):
thing that pulls you, meaningthe problem in the world that
you're here to solve.
But coming back to this ideathat purpose is an emotional
journey thing was actually theprimary reason I was so
frustrated.
I was so frustrated with thisidea that I was going to I don't
know backpack through Europe,pay for an expensive vacation,
stare into a sunset, until I gotclarity and it wasn't
(13:16):
sufficient and I realized whatit lacked was a process.
Funny enough, when people aresaying I need to find my purpose
, it's actually not purpose.
They seek directly.
They seek the result of livinga life according to their
purpose, which means they seekfulfillment significance meaning
.
I like the word fulfillment,and what I'm focused on when I'm
working with people or leadersis how do I create fulfillment
(13:39):
on demand?
Because fulfillment driveswillingness to sacrifice and
sacrifice drives success overthe long term.
So what I want you to thinkabout is purpose is two things.
One purpose is the best of whatyou have to help others.
It's the best of what younaturally have.
It's the best of the skillsyou've acquired.
It's the best of the knowledgeyou've acquired around the
(14:02):
problems you solve, and it'salso the best of the knowledge
you've acquired around theproblems you solve.
And it's also the best of thewisdom and perspective you got
from your growing up years,whether they were good or they
were net frustrating.
That's what it is.
It's a grouping of those thingsto live out in a contribution.
And when you know those things,it's also a decision-making
tool.
A decision-making tool that says, with this new opportunity, I'm
(14:25):
considering how can I give thebest of what I have?
Because, if I can, I'll takethe opportunity In the current
opportunities.
I'm in, the person that I'mleading, the person that's right
in front of me, how can I givethem the best of what I have?
Because, if I can, I'm going tohelp them experience
fulfillment and they'll be moresuccessful.
(14:46):
So for me, instead of lookingat purpose like a journey
because I think that'softentimes what discourages
people is looking at purposelike a journey, because it makes
them think I can't get any kindof remote clarity at all today.
It's going to take years, andwhat if I don't find it?
And that's kind of discouraging.
So purpose has parts.
Purpose is contribution.
Purpose is the best of what youhave to help others and it's
your primary decision-makingtool.
Brandon Mulnix (15:07):
It's interesting because there's so many times
we learn from hard things aboutwhat makes us tick and what we
like to do, what we don't liketo do, and going after passion,
going after things.
I mean, I'm on my second, thirdcareer.
Whatever I'm on, I lost countof how many different things
(15:29):
I've done, but it's all been inpursuit of purpose, even this
podcast.
What I'm finding is part of mypurpose and just to share a
little story is the other day Iget distracted by recruiters and
asking me hey, would you beinterested in doing that and
interested in doing that?
And as I sat in this FFAconference watching these kids
(15:52):
do what they absolutely werethere to do and they did it
really, really well, I'm likethere's no other place in the
world, no other job in the worldthat would.
Let me be part of this, becauseI'm able to share my purpose
with these kids and that to me,as we talk about different job
(16:13):
titles, different positions,whether you're an egg washer,
whether you're a manure scraper,whether you're a general
manager, you sit in an office oryou're in the barns.
Going back to, it's not justabout what you're doing.
That also helps get a paycheck,but making sure you're invested
in that and helping others.
Brian Bosché (16:34):
Where do most people struggle in this area?
There are two reasons peopledon't experience consistent
fulfillment.
Number one reason they don'thave specific clarity on their
purpose.
12 years ago I didn't want tojust write a book.
I wanted to create the world'sfirst purpose discovery
assessment, which we have.
That as well, and everybody'slike.
No way, wait a second.
You can't do purpose in anassessment 20 minutes.
I'm going to take someassessment.
20, 25 minutes is going to helpme find my purpose.
(16:55):
The answer is yes, because Itook 12 years to figure out how
to do it in 20 to 25 minutes.
That's why you can.
There are two reasons peopledon't live lives of fulfillment.
The first one is they don'tspecifically know their purpose.
They don't specifically knowthe best of what they have to
contribute to others.
And the second reason is theydon't know the top ways you
experience fulfillment.
So for context, it's reallypurpose.
(17:16):
In one picture and I want youto imagine it's you on the left
and others on the right there'san arrow going from you to
others, the giving arrow.
That represents purpose.
Then there's an arrow thatcomes back to you.
That represents fulfillment.
Fulfillment is the result ofhelping others with the best of
what you have.
I give purpose away.
I get fulfillment back.
But there's three primary waysthat human beings receive
(17:38):
fulfillment, though, and it'sreally important to know those
three ways so you can look forthem, because if you're not
aware of where fulfillment comesfrom, it's hard to experience
it consistently.
The three ways are this First,we experience fulfillment
through gratitude, where we helpsomebody experience a life
transformation or a change inoutcomes, and they come back to
us and say Brandon, thank you somuch.
(17:59):
You radically changed my life,and I need to tell you how you
did, because if it wasn't foryou a couple of years ago, when
you were mentoring me, Iwouldn't be where I'm at today.
That's gratitude-drivenfulfillment.
The second way is thegiving-driven fulfillment, which
is you're not necessarily goingto get that gratitude feedback
loop, but you're going to get towatch the benefit of having
(18:19):
helped someone, helped a team,helped an organization.
And then the third way wereceive it is through our growth
.
So it's gratitude giving andgrowth.
Growth has to be bothquantitative and qualitative.
So it can be quantitative,meaning I'm making more money,
I'm raising my station in life,but I'm also growing in a
qualitative way my relationshipsare better, my mental health is
(18:40):
better, my environment's better.
Those are the three ways youreceive it.
So if I can get you specificclarity on your purpose, the
best of what you have to helpothers, and specific clarity on
how you best receive fulfillment, then it allows you to put
yourself in a position where youcan experience fulfillment
consistently.
Brandon Mulnix (18:57):
So does purpose evolve over time.
Brian Bosché (19:00):
Evolve is a pretty good word it's more that it
becomes more specifically clear.
So, for example, it's kind oflike if you were to imagine like
a block of marble, well, it's ablock of marble, but to a
person who is a sculptor,there's a beautiful statue
inside.
And the more you chip away,it's kind of a metaphor, right.
(19:21):
Like if we're working on ourmental health, we have to peel
back the layers.
But the more you chip away,it's kind of a metaphor, right.
Like if we're working on ourmental health, we have to peel
back the layers, but the moreyou chip away, the more
beautiful it becomes.
And so the more youintentionally not only know your
purpose more specificallyunderstand its application, get
better at the skill sets youhave, get better at leveraging
the perspective and wisdom youhave, you actually get sharper
(19:42):
at what you've always had.
And so for me, it's aboutgetting more specific with it
and then also being moreeffective in its application and
its use.
Brandon Mulnix (19:50):
Can you give me another example of something
you've experienced that hashelped somebody come out of
their shell, so to speak, ortheir comfort zone, go after
their passion and then justblossom?
Brian Bosché (20:04):
You can go through motivational discovery.
You can say, all right, here'syour purpose, take this
assessment.
Or let's look at these fourthings, let's get you specific
clarity in that.
Here's how you experiencefulfillment.
That's good operationalknowledge, right.
But the number one way somebodyis going to want it more is
through exposure.
Jordan Peterson talked aboutthis in an interview.
(20:24):
He said the world is anemotionally and physically
dangerous place and the only wayto prepare a child for an
emotionally and physicallydangerous place is to increase
their exposure responsibly tothat risk.
Now that's about danger.
That's about emotional dangerand that's about physical danger
to help them understand theways of the world.
But the opposite is true forpositive things.
(20:46):
If you want somebody to have agrowth mindset that they don't
currently have, you have toexpose them to the benefit of
trying growth mindset for thefirst time.
If you want somebody toexperience fulfillment and they
never have, you have to exposethem and give them the
opportunity to experiencefulfillment for the first time.
And an easy way to do that istake a very valuable skill set
(21:08):
that you have.
Look for somebody in your lifethat desperately needs that
skill set.
Go, help them solve thatproblem that that skill set has
equipped you to solve and watchwhat happens.
Two things One, you'll seetheir outcome transform.
You'll get to watch that.
Two, they might come to you andsay thank you so much, you
radically changed that situation.
That's unbelievable.
(21:29):
And three, by helping them,you're also going to grow
quantitatively and qualitativelypossibly as well.
Discovery is one step, butexposure is another step,
Because I think, Brandon, youand I probably take for granted
that we have a growth mindset.
It's fascinating the CIA.
There's a guy on, I think hisInstagram handle is called
Everyday Spy used to work at theCIA and he said the CIA studies
(21:53):
criminal masterminds, crazypeople, right, but also
successful people as well.
And one of the things he saysis the reason they're successful
is because they had so muchchildhood traumatic experience
that it gave them a growthmindset.
And he defines growth mindsetif I perform, I'll be rewarded,
right, but not so much traumaticexperience.
We take on a toxic copingmechanism, which means the
(22:16):
ultimate pinnacle of growthmindset is knife's edge close to
toxic coping mechanisms.
If you ever want to know whyyou see an incredibly famous
person screw up royally, it'sbecause the level of growth
mindset they have puts themdangerously close to toxic
coping mechanisms, and it'ssummarized in one quote.
Richard Branson talks about howhis headmaster in school told
(22:37):
him you'll either be amultimillionaire or you'll be in
prison.
That, right there, summarizeshow close pinnacle growth
mindset is to danger at the sametime, as you were thinking of
that.
Brandon Mulnix (22:47):
I'm like man.
How many coping mechanisms andperiods of time where I've coped
with things because of thatgrowth mindset of, hey, I want
to do this and I do it inextreme, and then it becomes a
danger instead of just, can Ilevel off on that, Can I back
off?
What's a barrier for mostpeople, or some people, I guess?
Brian Bosché (23:07):
There's a couple of barriers.
The human being is acomplicated thing, right, but
there's a lot of barriers tohuman success, however.
One of the big ones isoverthinking.
Psychologists and therapistscall it ruminating thinking
repetitively on the same thingover and over.
But overthinking is a big one.
There are really two buckets ofpeople.
There's the overthinkers andthere's the overactors.
There are people who takeaction, throw caution to the
(23:34):
wind and they just go.
That has its own problems, butif I had to pick, I'd rather one
be an overactor than anoverthinker.
Now, the way that you breakyourself of overthinking is to
take action in the face ofoverthinking.
I'm summarizing a George Pattonquote where he says courage is
fear's last breath, or I thinkit's something to the effect of
courage is fear holding on oneminute longer.
(23:54):
And what that means is, even inthe face of fear, or even in
the face of overthinking orbeing perfectionistic or
procrastinating or being apeople pleaser, the courage is
to do it in the face of that.
Anyways, I mean I speak a lotand if anybody's ever asked me
about stage fright or anythinglike that, bruce Springsteen
calls it anticipatory anxietyand irreverence for your
(24:16):
audience.
I always tell people don't justplan to do the whole speech
well.
Plan to crush the first 60 to90 seconds, because that's
courage, right.
Courage is fear holding on oneminute longer.
If you can overcome the first60 to 90 seconds, it will give
you the emotional confidencemomentum for the rest of the
talk.
Brandon Mulnix (24:35):
What's interesting is, as you were
talking about that and that fearof speaking and that fear the
fear of success or the fear ofchange is so real.
It paralyzes people to thinkthat, man, I just can't risk
what I'm doing now, or I can'trisk the way I am now because I
don't think the people around mewould want me to change or be
successful.
(24:55):
In a lot of ways where I think,as a person, everybody around
you wants you to be successful,they want you to be living out
your purpose, because ifeverybody's living out their
purpose, the world is a waybetter place than people that
are paralyzed by making adecision or paralyzed by oh,
(25:17):
there's all of theseuncontrollable things that I
want to keep control over, thatI can't control, and it's.
I struggle with that, gettingit sometimes just because I'm
quick to act, live on faith,jump out there, do it and guess
what, unless it kills me.
There's nothing that I usuallycan't recover from financially,
(25:38):
emotionally, socially, whatever.
Take the risk, but that's mynatural instinct.
Speaking to those who are lessrisk averse, I can see where
they're coming from.
Brian Bosché (25:48):
You know one of my favorite things I've gotten to
research.
Over the last 12 years I've putin about 10,000 hours of
research alone on origin story.
Origin story is the moment orseries of moments that most
shaped your perspective fromyour childhood experience.
There are five dominant themes,but one of the dominant themes
and archetypes is the originstory, childhood experience of
(26:08):
rejection, and for most peoplethat's going to be parental
rejection from a mom or dad.
It just is the case.
Now, whatever you experiencedas a child, you primarily expect
or fear as an adult.
So if you had a father thatmade you feel like nothing was
ever good enough, you had amother that made you feel like
nothing was ever good enough.
This is actually where impostersyndrome and fear of rejection
is born.
(26:28):
And so, as an adult, weactually not only fear not being
good enough, we also fearrejection.
And so in decision-making, mostpeople are not making decisions
based on intention and purposealignment.
Most people are makingdecisions based on the avoidance
of a fear.
So, for example, if somebody'sprimary fear is rejection as an
adult because they had a primarystoryline of rejection, there
(26:48):
are three primary ways thatpeople protect themselves from
rejection when they're makingdecisions.
The first one is peoplepleasing.
So people pleasing is what I dowhen I'm in front of people to
protect myself from rejection.
The second one is perfectionism.
Perfectionism is what I do toprotect myself from rejection
before I see people.
Procrastination is what I do toprotect myself from rejection
before I see people.
(27:08):
Procrastination is what I do toavoid seeing people at all.
And all of these are protectionmechanisms against rejection.
And so this fear of successbecause fear of success does get
talked about a lot it is kindof a cousin of fear of rejection
, because if I change, mostlikely what I assume is the
environment or people grouparound me won't change.
And if I change, how will thatenvironment, circumstances or
(27:31):
group of people or familymembers around me?
How will they look at me?
And there's another piece tothat too A lot of people we put
on conferences and live eventsall the time.
If you were to ask people toraise their hand, how many of
you would admit to not likingyour life or circumstances right
now?
The majority of the room wouldraise their hand.
(27:54):
How many of you?
And you asked another questionhow many of you would like to
have a better life or differentlife?
And all the same, people wouldraise their hand.
Now, why do most people stay inthe situation in which they
raise their hand about the firstone?
Because of the fear ofuncertainty.
It is very strongresearch-backed conclusion that
most people will prefer themiserable normal, because it's
what they know, as opposed tothe purpose-aligned future,
(28:16):
because the switch is theuncertain part.
The step from what I don't liketo what I love is uncomfortable.
We call them conviction moments.
Conviction moments are whereclarity and pain coexist at the
same time.
It's the best possible chancefor somebody to make a change in
their life, and they have tohave clarity on three primary
things Clarity on who they are.
That's their purpose.
(28:36):
Clarity in their target.
And then clarity on the firststeps to be successful.
It doesn't have to be the wholeplan right, because that's
impossible, just the first stepsto be successful.
And then pain or discomfort.
And here's the hard part.
The pain has to be undelayed,uncooped, uncomfortable.
If you can get clarity and painto coexist, it's your
(28:59):
opportunity for a convictionmoment to get started in that
direction that you absolutelywant.
Brandon Mulnix (29:03):
So we've talked about purpose and work, but
purpose isn't always all aboutwork, and I think that's the one
caveat that I gleaned from alot of following your book and
doing other things.
Purpose can be in the way weserve other people.
At our family.
Some people's purpose is to bea great mom, great dad, and
their job is to provide food andshow that love to their family.
(29:29):
Can you expound on that?
Brian Bosché (29:31):
When we pass the definition of purpose.
Purpose is the best of what youhave to help others.
It's written the way it'swritten for a reason Help others
.
It doesn't necessarily mean inthe context at work.
It can be in a parentalrelationship, it can be in a
brotherly relationship, it canbe in a friendship.
I have to look at my life, inevery person that I interact
(29:52):
with, with this focusingquestion of how can I give this
person the best of what I have?
How can I give this person thebest of what I have?
If I sit down at a restaurantand the server walks up to the
table, the question must be howcan I give that person the best
of what I have?
And it starts, by the way, withasking them their name right,
(30:14):
because, according to DaleCarnegie, their name is the
sweetest sound to them.
And so, whether you're a mom,whether you're a dad, whether
you're a CEO of a company,whether you're running a
business, the focusing questionis how can I give the best of
what I have to this person inthis team?
If you don't want to dig downdeep and get focused on all the
four elements of purpose and allof that, that's fine.
(30:35):
Just ask yourself the questionhow can I give this person my
best?
How can I give this person mybest?
And if you just ask thatquestion, that means you'll give
your best and you'll also getthe fulfillment feedback loop.
And here's another hack, too,like if somebody doesn't want to
get really granular on theirpurpose discovery.
The one question that I wouldask anybody is, when you look
back at your work and yourcareer, what's been your
(30:56):
absolute most fulfilled moment?
And there's a couple of subquestions who were you helping,
what problem were you solvingand what solution were you
delivering?
And then the final question ishow did it make you feel to do
that?
Who were you helping?
What problem were youdelivering?
And then the final question ishow did it make you feel to do
(31:16):
that?
Who were you helping, whatproblem were you solving, what
solution were you delivering andhow did it make you feel to do
that?
Because if I can get you toidentify the answers to those
four questions, I can encourageyou to do more of that now and
in the future and you canexperience fulfillment on demand
.
Brandon Mulnix (31:26):
My mind immediately went to a time can
experience fulfillment on demand?
My mind immediately went to atime as you were asking me that
question, I literally wasreliving my past and so, yeah,
that question definitely works.
That question is veryintriguing.
It helps people connect.
As you continue to move on yourjourney of helping people find
their purpose, what's one thingthey can do today to help
themselves Is actually to stopand ask that question.
Brian Bosché (31:50):
I mean you can go to purposetestcom and take our
purpose factor assessment.
You can get individual clarityon your purpose, a full 49-page
report plus summary at thebeginning on how to discover
your exact purpose.
20 to 25 minutes it'll be thebest 20 to 25 minutes you spent
in a long time.
But if you don't do that, atleast do this.
Ask yourself that question,because here's the artfulness,
if you will, and the sciencebehind that question who are you
(32:11):
helping?
If you can answer that question, you can look for more of those
type of people.
What problem were you solving?
If you can answer that question, you can look for more of those
problems to solve.
What solution were youdelivering?
If you can answer that question, you'll consistently deliver
that great thing you have.
And how did it make you feel?
You can consistently replicatehow it made you feel, because if
(32:35):
it made the hair on the back ofyour neck raise up because of
how awesome the experience wasand how much they thanked you,
if you absolutely crushed it,the skillset you delivered to
solve the problem, if it was oneof those problems you just love
solving, if it's one of thosetypes of people that you love
helping.
If you can answer that questionand then go out and do the
answers to that question, youwill be ahead of 95% of the
(32:57):
population.
Brandon Mulnix (32:58):
Well, I think, most importantly, it's not just
being ahead of 95% of thepopulation, it's a better
version of you.
Brian Bosché (33:04):
Yes, because it's not a competition.
Brandon Mulnix (33:05):
Yeah, it goes back to even defining success.
What does success look like?
If you don't know what successlooks like for yourself, then
how do you ever achieve it?
Some people it's money, it'sitems, it's keeping up with the
Jones, it's all of these things.
What I've found success to looklike is the joy in other people
, the growth in other people.
(33:26):
It helps me appreciate thesimple things of a sunrise and a
sunset and a really good longtrail, because if I'm giving
myself to others and able tohelp them find their purpose,
then even my time in relaxationis so much better because I'm
able to enjoy the purpose andI've usually got great people
around me at that point becauseit's other people striving with
(33:47):
their purpose.
Man, I mean, I reallyappreciate what you're offering
to our listeners and the factthat purpostestcom this is free,
right, it's not going to costanybody anything.
Brian Bosché (33:58):
That's our full grade purpose discovery test.
But if you don't want to do the49 bucks, there's our book
available for sub 15 or sub 20bucks on amazoncom.
Brandon Mulnix (34:06):
Before I ask Brian to kind of wrap us up here
a little bit with his closingstatements, I just want to say
if finding your purpose isimportant, it's something that
you need in the journey.
Please reach out to me.
I'm going to commit five of thebooks.
If you're interested, reach outto me and I'll get you a book
sent to you.
If that's what's standing inyour way, please don't hesitate
to reach out to me.
(34:26):
I love to give back in that way.
But, Brian, going back to thefolks that are in the industry,
what are your words or lastadvice for them?
Brian Bosché (34:40):
Don't live life in isolation.
The world of social media andAI has served as an isolating
function.
I was just reading a studyactually yesterday or this
morning that isolation anddepression and anxiety exist in
a relationship and if youexperience short-term isolation,
it encourages you to go createcommunity, but if you experience
long-term, chronic isolation,it doesn't.
(35:02):
It has the opposite effect.
You just go further intoisolation.
And the real differentiatortoday among leaders and teams
and effective people will be, inthe age of social media and AI,
the people that generate theinterest and ability to create
connection, because it's inauthentic relationship that
people change.
Here's an interesting study, nota study, a stat.
The kill rate on a lion huntingby itself is like 17%.
(35:27):
The kill rate on a lion huntingin a group or lions is like 51%
.
There are so many tools todayin social media Instagram,
youtube, youtube's a giant placeto either entertain yourself or
educate yourself.
There are so many ways to dothat individually, but in
isolation, anxiety anddepression grow like mold grows
(35:49):
in dark, wet places.
But with people, if we'lldiscover our purpose and do it
with people, our success rategoes higher, way higher, because
it's the power of community,the differentiator for all
companies, like corporatecultures, company cultures and
team cultures.
The differentiator won't be AI,because AI is helpful in a lot
of different ways, but thedifferentiator will be the
(36:10):
companies and teams and culturesthat put people together in
authentic relationship.
Brandon Mulnix (36:16):
So, poultry Leadership Podcast listeners,
not only is it important to findyour purpose, but it's also
important to find your pack.
Find those that you'll huntwith, find those that you'll be
more successful with.
We just appreciate, brian, yourtime You're willing to give to
the industry.
Thank you, poulter LeadershipPodcast listeners.
I have to give a plug out forPrism Controls.
(36:36):
What's interesting is, as Briantalked about finding your pack,
one of our core values is caredeeply about people than
customers.
The reason that's important iswe can't do it alone.
If you don't care about thoseyou're around, if you're not
willing to engage in community,then it's hard for you to feel
connected, even within our owncompany, prism Controls.
(36:57):
So the alignment of that isquite unique.
As you've heard from Brian, asyou've heard throughout other
podcast episodes, just continueto reach out, give the best of
yourself, and the world willcontinue to be a much, much
better place.
Your world will continue to bea much, much better place as you
understand your purpose.
So, thank you, listeners, lookforward to having you guys reach
(37:19):
out and tell me how thisepisode has affected you.
You can find links to connectwith Brian in the show notes and
be willing to share this withyour friends and family to help
them again find their purpose.
So thank you.
Podcast listeners, have a greatday.
Welcome to the Poultry Leadership Podcast.
I'm your host, Brandon Mulnix.
I've had that period in my lifewhere I just sit back and I go
man, what is my purpose?
What should I be doing?
What has God put me on thisplanet to do?
And what's interesting about itis today's guest actually wrote
a book called the PurposeFactor.
(00:47):
Coming across this book and notonly reading the book,
listening to the audio book andjust going through this thing
multiple times I had to get thisguy on On the show.
Today I have Brian Boucher.
Brian is the author of thePurpose Factor and Brian also
shares just a love of helpingpeople find their purpose.
Brian, welcome to the show.
(01:07):
Thanks for having me.
Brandon, appreciate that.
Hey, brian, you're an author.
You've got a mission and visionand a purpose for your life.
Who's Brian?
Brian Bosché (01:15):
This is not the space that I would have ever
expected to end up in.
If you were like zoom back intoBrian's past at 16 years old
and you're like Brian, what doyou want to do with your life?
Back into Brian's past at 16years old and you're like Brian,
what do you want to do withyour life?
And Brian would have told you Iwant to be a national news
anchor.
That's what I would have toldyou, and that became my career
pursuit, not only from the endof high school on into college
and into law school.
Everything was focused onbecoming this national news
(01:37):
anchor, broadcaster,communicator and it's funny,
right, because that's a skillsetthat I use every single day
today, but it's not how Ithought I would use it.
When I got to the end of lawschool, this purpose timeline
began, if you will, because Ifinished law school, I got my
dream job as a nationaljournalist covering government
corruption and terrorism, andthat dream job lasted a whopping
(01:58):
one year.
While I was in law school, too,I got married, and that marriage
ended the same month I got laidoff from my dream job, and when
you go through something likethat especially for me, because
I had never experienceddepression growing up or in
college or in law school.
I mean, law school is kind ofpainful, but I didn't experience
depression and I was plungedinto a very dark depression
(02:18):
rapidly and what was alsoimpacting that was an undealt
with childhood sexual traumafrom when I was seven years old.
So all these three primarythings layoff, divorce,
childhood sexual trauma beingvery undealt with put me in a
place where I was asking all ofmy friends and primarily all the
people that spoke in my life,my mentors.
I was asking them what I shoulddo to get through the season
and all of them kept coming backto this theme hey, brian, you
(02:40):
need to find your purpose,you've got to find your purpose.
And I was a little frustratedbecause they were all super
well-intended and, brandon,maybe you felt this way before
Somebody tells you to dosomething, but it's like, good
luck with that.
And so I started plungingmyself into all of the books,
the research documentaries Imean, if anything related
remotely to purpose, I waswatching it or reading it.
(03:02):
To kind of put a cap on this.
It's like for a year and a halfI just would demolish all this
stuff on purpose.
And then I recognized that therewere like four buckets that
would come up, I realized onepurpose is about living a life
of contribution.
And out came the definitionpurpose is the best of what you
have to help others.
As I read all these experts, Inoticed that there were four
buckets something natural,bucket one, something related to
(03:31):
skills, bucket two, somethingrelated to passion, bucket three
and bucket four, coming of ageand origin story.
And it became this researchworking hypothesis of breaking
purpose down into four elementsand its discovery into a
sequence, and then the ultimatedestination.
For me, this wasn't actuallyabout starting a company.
I was just trying to figurethis out for me, but the
ultimate destination was how canI turn actually about starting
a company?
I was just trying to figurethis out for me, but the
ultimate destination was how canI turn this thing into a
decision-making tool that isconsistently reliable, no matter
(03:53):
the season of my life?
Brandon Mulnix (03:54):
Man, you just went to depths that I could
never imagine.
As you talk about your history,it amazes me how we're all put
on this earth for a purpose.
It took some real trials foryou to find that purpose.
I mean right off the batgetting out of college and
everything's grand and marriageand all these great things and
shocker life didn't turn out theway the 16-year-old Brian wrote
(04:17):
.
Brian Bosché (04:17):
That's right.
Yeah, I was just shy of 10years later that dream that I
had came from when I was 16years old.
You come out of law schoolaround 25, just shy of a decade
of having that dream, you getsmacked in the face with it
being taken away.
And it's a common theme for alot of folks who go after any
dream, it doesn't matter whatindustry it is, whether it's
(04:38):
somebody wants to play in theNFL, somebody wants to own real
estate, somebody wants to own afarm, Somebody wants to become a
national broadcaster.
There's riches in every nicheand there's dreams in every
niche, and I've coached a coupleof NFL football players who
have gotten cut from the NFL andit's a bit of an identity
crisis because one of the bigmyths and Brandon you know this,
one of the big myths aboutpurpose is that purpose is a
(05:00):
certain job.
When somebody says my purposeis to be an NFL player, purpose
is to be this, I was like, well,wait a second.
How many people have you seenother than Brett Favre, who
really pushed the upper limitsof age in the NFL, that it was a
lifetime game?
It's not a lifetime game, whichmeans purpose can't be a
specific job.
Because my first question I'mgoing to ask you is well, what
(05:20):
if you woke up tomorrow anddidn't have that job?
So purpose can't be that.
That's why purpose isessentially a toolbox.
It's a toolbox of things thatyou have to give away, no matter
your job.
Brandon Mulnix (05:31):
I don't need you to call out your age, but how
long you've been working on thisAlmost 12 years, almost 12
years.
Brian Bosché (05:36):
I can call out my age.
I'm 36 years old, but I've beenat this for about almost 12.
Brandon Mulnix (05:41):
Okay, in your book, the Purpose Factor, you've
had a little bit of successwith it.
Can you talk about that?
Brian Bosché (05:49):
a little bit, if I can encourage anybody, because
social media is kind ofdeceiving, right.
Social media is like you scrollthrough it, man.
Let's say you're 16 years oldtoday.
That's different than when Iwas 16, which I didn't have the
social media thing until collegeor whatever.
So people today scroll insocial media in high school
going oh look at thatbillionaire 23-year-old Kylie
Jenner.
If I just post more toInstagram I could be a
billionaire, which is a totallydelusional statement.
(06:11):
It's not true.
And what?
You realize?
That even in the age of socialmedia and now AI, real dreams
still take decades.
Real big dreams still takedecades, or at least years.
Dreams do take years, and it wasa dream of mine to write this
book on purpose even 12 yearsago, and it took six-ish seven
(06:33):
years to do that.
And rejection is a hard thingbecause and there's a lot of
stories you can talk to a lot ofauthors and they'll tell you if
you're going to get a publishedbook, not a self-published book
Our book, the Purpose Factor,its manuscript got turned down
over 70 times in the pursuit ofgetting it published, and so
that alone feels like amilestone.
But then a lot of times themistake that authors make is
(06:55):
they finish the book and theythink the publishing of the book
is the finish line, but it'sactually the start line.
This is where the distributionresponsibility takes over, that
if you believe it can helppeople, you have the duty to get
it in as many hands as possible.
Brandon Mulnix (07:12):
We're talking today to leaders in the poultry
industry, guys that are kneedeep and manure today because
something broke the egg conveyorbroke or the feeder broke, or
something their employee calledin sick All of these things that
people love to focus on becausethat's what's in front of them
(07:33):
today.
What do you have to say to themin regards to finding a purpose
?
Brian Bosché (07:38):
You actually kind of remind me of something.
First of all, that means we'retalking to a whole bunch of
people who are a lot strongerthan me.
They're a lot stronger.
A of all, that means we'retalking to a whole bunch of
people who are a lot strongerthan me.
They're a lot stronger, a lotstronger, a lot better than me.
I'll never forget this episodeof Conan O'Brien had the late
military sniper, chris Kyle, Ithink.
When Chris Kyle sat down in thechair next to Conan, he kept
(08:01):
saying like thank you, sir.
I think this is right.
He's about like thank you, sir,and Conan's like you don't want
to call me, sir, I'm like I'm atalk show host, I'm just an
author.
I'm just an author that mighthave some things that might be
helpful, and so the one thing Iwould say is that it doesn't
matter where we are, where westand, what position we sit in.
(08:26):
John Maxwell says thatleadership is influence, it's
not positional right, and he's areally special friend and
mentor in my life and so I'vegotten to watch that firsthand
is that leadership really isinfluence.
So, no matter where you stand,you have to ask yourself, with
the influence you've been givenover one person, over a team
over yourself.
What are you doing with it?
Because when I look at thepurpose of work generally, the
(08:48):
purpose of work is to get thingsdone and bring people together
to get things done.
If we just want to look at itsfunctional core, it's about
getting things done and bringingpeople together to get things
done.
Now, what's cool about that is Iwas once talking to I can't say
his name, but I was oncetalking to somebody.
He's a very influential personand in the context of this
(09:08):
conversation he said listen,name me the last 10 motivational
talks that changed your life.
And he was talking to me andI'm like in this space and I'm
like, hmm, I think I rattled offlike three.
He's like it's okay, mostpastors can't remember the last
10 sermons they gave.
And then he said now name methe last 10 people that changed
(09:32):
your life.
And that's easy.
I can go way past 10.
I can list off a whole bunch ofpeople that have changed my
life.
And he said it's people inrelationship, authentic
relationship, that change people.
And so when you look at yourself, if you're in the position of
leadership or if you're not in atitled position of leadership,
and you stand shoulder toshoulder on a team of colleagues
(09:55):
and you have influence withthose colleagues, you have the
greatest possible chance,through influence, of changing
somebody's life in authenticrelationship and no matter what
the craft is.
It doesn't matter what thecraft is it could be writing a
book, being an author andspeaking, it could be
woodworking, it could be drivinga NASCAR vehicle, changing
(10:17):
tires on a NASCAR vehicle, itdoesn't matter.
In those team environments westand shoulder to shoulder
together in authenticrelationship and sometimes when
we look at the work, we're likethe work, the work, that's the
thing I've got to focus on.
The work, yes and right,because that's the minimum
requirement of the job.
We've got to get the job done.
But when I look to my left or myright or I look across the
(10:39):
table or I look at the team thatI'm leading, the real work is
finding creative ways, whiledoing the work, to transform the
lives around me.
Now, a lot of people are likewell, what are you talking about
?
The job's a job.
We're just there to get thework done.
That's not really my thing,it's not really my
responsibility.
I'm like kind of, the greatestpossible chance to do excellent
work is to transform the livesof the people on the team you're
(11:03):
in.
Google did this very famousinternal study called Project
Aristotle and one of the bigconclusions of Project Aristotle
?
It was a study that was lookingat effective teams versus
ineffective teams, and one ofthe basic conclusions of the
study was purpose-centered teamswere 300% more effective than
(11:24):
non-purpose-centered teams,which means if I take the time
to change the lives of thepeople around me, we're going to
be more effective anyway.
Brandon Mulnix (11:33):
Going back you mentioned everybody in your
life's like find your purpose,find your purpose.
Sometimes it becomes verycliche when you tell somebody
find your purpose, because I'msorry, I've been there, I don't
know how to find my purpose.
Can you help out with that?
Brian Bosché (11:50):
Yeah, it does feel cliche, because what are the
conclusions there?
Okay, so let's look at thetypical ways people find their
purpose.
We read a book, which I mean, Ihave one of those.
So no knocking on books, right,I have a book.
They listen to podcasts.
They watch YouTube videos.
They go course mastermindconference, whatever it is.
The issue is actually not thedelivery vehicle.
(12:11):
The issue is how we look at it.
For decades, we've looked atpurpose discovery as a very
journey-driven, emotionalizedexperience.
And can somebody find theirpurpose in a journey-driven,
emotionalized experience?
And can somebody find theirpurpose in a journey-driven,
emotionalized experience?
Yes, but not often, way lessthan 1% of the time.
When you watch some gardenvariety tech billionaire giving
(12:32):
a graduation speech, they alwaystalk about how lucky they are
or follow your passion and, kindof side note there, passion is
a horrible decision-making tool.
Because if you look at thedictionary definition of passion
, you're going to find that itsdefinition is a barely
controllable emotion, which,right there, tells you it's not
a reliable decision-making tool.
It's better to look at passionas pull passion meaning the
(12:53):
thing that pulls you, meaningthe problem in the world that
you're here to solve.
But coming back to this ideathat purpose is an emotional
journey thing was actually theprimary reason I was so
frustrated.
I was so frustrated with thisidea that I was going to I don't
know backpack through Europe,pay for an expensive vacation,
stare into a sunset, until I gotclarity and it wasn't
(13:16):
sufficient and I realized whatit lacked was a process.
Funny enough, when people aresaying I need to find my purpose
, it's actually not purpose.
They seek directly.
They seek the result of livinga life according to their
purpose, which means they seekfulfillment significance meaning
.
I like the word fulfillment,and what I'm focused on when I'm
working with people or leadersis how do I create fulfillment
(13:39):
on demand?
Because fulfillment driveswillingness to sacrifice and
sacrifice drives success overthe long term.
So what I want you to thinkabout is purpose is two things.
One purpose is the best of whatyou have to help others.
It's the best of what younaturally have.
It's the best of the skillsyou've acquired.
It's the best of the knowledgeyou've acquired around the
(14:02):
problems you solve, and it'salso the best of the knowledge
you've acquired around theproblems you solve.
And it's also the best of thewisdom and perspective you got
from your growing up years,whether they were good or they
were net frustrating.
That's what it is.
It's a grouping of those thingsto live out in a contribution.
And when you know those things,it's also a decision-making
tool.
A decision-making tool that says, with this new opportunity, I'm
(14:25):
considering how can I give thebest of what I have?
Because, if I can, I'll takethe opportunity In the current
opportunities.
I'm in, the person that I'mleading, the person that's right
in front of me, how can I givethem the best of what I have?
Because, if I can, I'm going tohelp them experience
fulfillment and they'll be moresuccessful.
(14:46):
So for me, instead of lookingat purpose like a journey
because I think that'softentimes what discourages
people is looking at purposelike a journey, because it makes
them think I can't get any kindof remote clarity at all today.
It's going to take years, andwhat if I don't find it?
And that's kind of discouraging.
So purpose has parts.
Purpose is contribution.
Purpose is the best of what youhave to help others and it's
your primary decision-makingtool.
Brandon Mulnix (15:07):
It's interesting because there's so many times
we learn from hard things aboutwhat makes us tick and what we
like to do, what we don't liketo do, and going after passion,
going after things.
I mean, I'm on my second, thirdcareer.
Whatever I'm on, I lost countof how many different things
(15:29):
I've done, but it's all been inpursuit of purpose, even this
podcast.
What I'm finding is part of mypurpose and just to share a
little story is the other day Iget distracted by recruiters and
asking me hey, would you beinterested in doing that and
interested in doing that?
And as I sat in this FFAconference watching these kids
(15:52):
do what they absolutely werethere to do and they did it
really, really well, I'm likethere's no other place in the
world, no other job in the worldthat would.
Let me be part of this, becauseI'm able to share my purpose
with these kids and that to me,as we talk about different job
(16:13):
titles, different positions,whether you're an egg washer,
whether you're a manure scraper,whether you're a general
manager, you sit in an office oryou're in the barns.
Going back to, it's not justabout what you're doing.
That also helps get a paycheck,but making sure you're invested
in that and helping others.
Brian Bosché (16:34):
Where do most people struggle in this area?
There are two reasons peopledon't experience consistent
fulfillment.
Number one reason they don'thave specific clarity on their
purpose.
12 years ago I didn't want tojust write a book.
I wanted to create the world'sfirst purpose discovery
assessment, which we have.
That as well, and everybody'slike.
No way, wait a second.
You can't do purpose in anassessment 20 minutes.
I'm going to take someassessment.
20, 25 minutes is going to helpme find my purpose.
(16:55):
The answer is yes, because Itook 12 years to figure out how
to do it in 20 to 25 minutes.
That's why you can.
There are two reasons peopledon't live lives of fulfillment.
The first one is they don'tspecifically know their purpose.
They don't specifically knowthe best of what they have to
contribute to others.
And the second reason is theydon't know the top ways you
experience fulfillment.
So for context, it's reallypurpose.
(17:16):
In one picture and I want youto imagine it's you on the left
and others on the right there'san arrow going from you to
others, the giving arrow.
That represents purpose.
Then there's an arrow thatcomes back to you.
That represents fulfillment.
Fulfillment is the result ofhelping others with the best of
what you have.
I give purpose away.
I get fulfillment back.
But there's three primary waysthat human beings receive
(17:38):
fulfillment, though, and it'sreally important to know those
three ways so you can look forthem, because if you're not
aware of where fulfillment comesfrom, it's hard to experience
it consistently.
The three ways are this First,we experience fulfillment
through gratitude, where we helpsomebody experience a life
transformation or a change inoutcomes, and they come back to
us and say Brandon, thank you somuch.
(17:59):
You radically changed my life,and I need to tell you how you
did, because if it wasn't foryou a couple of years ago, when
you were mentoring me, Iwouldn't be where I'm at today.
That's gratitude-drivenfulfillment.
The second way is thegiving-driven fulfillment, which
is you're not necessarily goingto get that gratitude feedback
loop, but you're going to get towatch the benefit of having
(18:19):
helped someone, helped a team,helped an organization.
And then the third way wereceive it is through our growth
.
So it's gratitude giving andgrowth.
Growth has to be bothquantitative and qualitative.
So it can be quantitative,meaning I'm making more money,
I'm raising my station in life,but I'm also growing in a
qualitative way my relationshipsare better, my mental health is
(18:40):
better, my environment's better.
Those are the three ways youreceive it.
So if I can get you specificclarity on your purpose, the
best of what you have to helpothers, and specific clarity on
how you best receive fulfillment, then it allows you to put
yourself in a position where youcan experience fulfillment
consistently.
Brandon Mulnix (18:57):
So does purpose evolve over time.
Brian Bosché (19:00):
Evolve is a pretty good word it's more that it
becomes more specifically clear.
So, for example, it's kind oflike if you were to imagine like
a block of marble, well, it's ablock of marble, but to a
person who is a sculptor,there's a beautiful statue
inside.
And the more you chip away,it's kind of a metaphor, right.
(19:21):
Like if we're working on ourmental health, we have to peel
back the layers.
But the more you chip away,it's kind of a metaphor, right.
Like if we're working on ourmental health, we have to peel
back the layers, but the moreyou chip away, the more
beautiful it becomes.
And so the more youintentionally not only know your
purpose more specificallyunderstand its application, get
better at the skill sets youhave, get better at leveraging
the perspective and wisdom youhave, you actually get sharper
(19:42):
at what you've always had.
And so for me, it's aboutgetting more specific with it
and then also being moreeffective in its application and
its use.
Brandon Mulnix (19:50):
Can you give me another example of something
you've experienced that hashelped somebody come out of
their shell, so to speak, ortheir comfort zone, go after
their passion and then justblossom?
Brian Bosché (20:04):
You can go through motivational discovery.
You can say, all right, here'syour purpose, take this
assessment.
Or let's look at these fourthings, let's get you specific
clarity in that.
Here's how you experiencefulfillment.
That's good operationalknowledge, right.
But the number one way somebodyis going to want it more is
through exposure.
Jordan Peterson talked aboutthis in an interview.
(20:24):
He said the world is anemotionally and physically
dangerous place and the only wayto prepare a child for an
emotionally and physicallydangerous place is to increase
their exposure responsibly tothat risk.
Now that's about danger.
That's about emotional dangerand that's about physical danger
to help them understand theways of the world.
But the opposite is true forpositive things.
(20:46):
If you want somebody to have agrowth mindset that they don't
currently have, you have toexpose them to the benefit of
trying growth mindset for thefirst time.
If you want somebody toexperience fulfillment and they
never have, you have to exposethem and give them the
opportunity to experiencefulfillment for the first time.
And an easy way to do that istake a very valuable skill set
(21:08):
that you have.
Look for somebody in your lifethat desperately needs that
skill set.
Go, help them solve thatproblem that that skill set has
equipped you to solve and watchwhat happens.
Two things One, you'll seetheir outcome transform.
You'll get to watch that.
Two, they might come to you andsay thank you so much, you
radically changed that situation.
That's unbelievable.
(21:29):
And three, by helping them,you're also going to grow
quantitatively and qualitativelypossibly as well.
Discovery is one step, butexposure is another step,
Because I think, Brandon, youand I probably take for granted
that we have a growth mindset.
It's fascinating the CIA.
There's a guy on, I think hisInstagram handle is called
Everyday Spy used to work at theCIA and he said the CIA studies
(21:53):
criminal masterminds, crazypeople, right, but also
successful people as well.
And one of the things he saysis the reason they're successful
is because they had so muchchildhood traumatic experience
that it gave them a growthmindset.
And he defines growth mindsetif I perform, I'll be rewarded,
right, but not so much traumaticexperience.
We take on a toxic copingmechanism, which means the
(22:16):
ultimate pinnacle of growthmindset is knife's edge close to
toxic coping mechanisms.
If you ever want to know whyyou see an incredibly famous
person screw up royally, it'sbecause the level of growth
mindset they have puts themdangerously close to toxic
coping mechanisms, and it'ssummarized in one quote.
Richard Branson talks about howhis headmaster in school told
(22:37):
him you'll either be amultimillionaire or you'll be in
prison.
That, right there, summarizeshow close pinnacle growth
mindset is to danger at the sametime, as you were thinking of
that.
Brandon Mulnix (22:47):
I'm like man.
How many coping mechanisms andperiods of time where I've coped
with things because of thatgrowth mindset of, hey, I want
to do this and I do it inextreme, and then it becomes a
danger instead of just, can Ilevel off on that, Can I back
off?
What's a barrier for mostpeople, or some people, I guess?
Brian Bosché (23:07):
There's a couple of barriers.
The human being is acomplicated thing, right, but
there's a lot of barriers tohuman success, however.
One of the big ones isoverthinking.
Psychologists and therapistscall it ruminating thinking
repetitively on the same thingover and over.
But overthinking is a big one.
There are really two buckets ofpeople.
There's the overthinkers andthere's the overactors.
There are people who takeaction, throw caution to the
(23:34):
wind and they just go.
That has its own problems, butif I had to pick, I'd rather one
be an overactor than anoverthinker.
Now, the way that you breakyourself of overthinking is to
take action in the face ofoverthinking.
I'm summarizing a George Pattonquote where he says courage is
fear's last breath, or I thinkit's something to the effect of
courage is fear holding on oneminute longer.
(23:54):
And what that means is, even inthe face of fear, or even in
the face of overthinking orbeing perfectionistic or
procrastinating or being apeople pleaser, the courage is
to do it in the face of that.
Anyways, I mean I speak a lotand if anybody's ever asked me
about stage fright or anythinglike that, bruce Springsteen
calls it anticipatory anxietyand irreverence for your
(24:16):
audience.
I always tell people don't justplan to do the whole speech
well.
Plan to crush the first 60 to90 seconds, because that's
courage, right.
Courage is fear holding on oneminute longer.
If you can overcome the first60 to 90 seconds, it will give
you the emotional confidencemomentum for the rest of the
talk.
Brandon Mulnix (24:35):
What's interesting is, as you were
talking about that and that fearof speaking and that fear the
fear of success or the fear ofchange is so real.
It paralyzes people to thinkthat, man, I just can't risk
what I'm doing now, or I can'trisk the way I am now because I
don't think the people around mewould want me to change or be
successful.
(24:55):
In a lot of ways where I think,as a person, everybody around
you wants you to be successful,they want you to be living out
your purpose, because ifeverybody's living out their
purpose, the world is a waybetter place than people that
are paralyzed by making adecision or paralyzed by oh,
(25:17):
there's all of theseuncontrollable things that I
want to keep control over, thatI can't control, and it's.
I struggle with that, gettingit sometimes just because I'm
quick to act, live on faith,jump out there, do it and guess
what, unless it kills me.
There's nothing that I usuallycan't recover from financially,
(25:38):
emotionally, socially, whatever.
Take the risk, but that's mynatural instinct.
Speaking to those who are lessrisk averse, I can see where
they're coming from.
Brian Bosché (25:48):
You know one of my favorite things I've gotten to
research.
Over the last 12 years I've putin about 10,000 hours of
research alone on origin story.
Origin story is the moment orseries of moments that most
shaped your perspective fromyour childhood experience.
There are five dominant themes,but one of the dominant themes
and archetypes is the originstory, childhood experience of
(26:08):
rejection, and for most peoplethat's going to be parental
rejection from a mom or dad.
It just is the case.
Now, whatever you experiencedas a child, you primarily expect
or fear as an adult.
So if you had a father thatmade you feel like nothing was
ever good enough, you had amother that made you feel like
nothing was ever good enough.
This is actually where impostersyndrome and fear of rejection
is born.
(26:28):
And so, as an adult, weactually not only fear not being
good enough, we also fearrejection.
And so in decision-making, mostpeople are not making decisions
based on intention and purposealignment.
Most people are makingdecisions based on the avoidance
of a fear.
So, for example, if somebody'sprimary fear is rejection as an
adult because they had a primarystoryline of rejection, there
(26:48):
are three primary ways thatpeople protect themselves from
rejection when they're makingdecisions.
The first one is peoplepleasing.
So people pleasing is what I dowhen I'm in front of people to
protect myself from rejection.
The second one is perfectionism.
Perfectionism is what I do toprotect myself from rejection
before I see people.
Procrastination is what I do toprotect myself from rejection
before I see people.
(27:08):
Procrastination is what I do toavoid seeing people at all.
And all of these are protectionmechanisms against rejection.
And so this fear of successbecause fear of success does get
talked about a lot it is kindof a cousin of fear of rejection
, because if I change, mostlikely what I assume is the
environment or people grouparound me won't change.
And if I change, how will thatenvironment, circumstances or
(27:31):
group of people or familymembers around me?
How will they look at me?
And there's another piece tothat too A lot of people we put
on conferences and live eventsall the time.
If you were to ask people toraise their hand, how many of
you would admit to not likingyour life or circumstances right
now?
The majority of the room wouldraise their hand.
(27:54):
How many of you?
And you asked another questionhow many of you would like to
have a better life or differentlife?
And all the same, people wouldraise their hand.
Now, why do most people stay inthe situation in which they
raise their hand about the firstone?
Because of the fear ofuncertainty.
It is very strongresearch-backed conclusion that
most people will prefer themiserable normal, because it's
what they know, as opposed tothe purpose-aligned future,
(28:16):
because the switch is theuncertain part.
The step from what I don't liketo what I love is uncomfortable.
We call them conviction moments.
Conviction moments are whereclarity and pain coexist at the
same time.
It's the best possible chancefor somebody to make a change in
their life, and they have tohave clarity on three primary
things Clarity on who they are.
That's their purpose.
(28:36):
Clarity in their target.
And then clarity on the firststeps to be successful.
It doesn't have to be the wholeplan right, because that's
impossible, just the first stepsto be successful.
And then pain or discomfort.
And here's the hard part.
The pain has to be undelayed,uncooped, uncomfortable.
If you can get clarity and painto coexist, it's your
(28:59):
opportunity for a convictionmoment to get started in that
direction that you absolutelywant.
Brandon Mulnix (29:03):
So we've talked about purpose and work, but
purpose isn't always all aboutwork, and I think that's the one
caveat that I gleaned from alot of following your book and
doing other things.
Purpose can be in the way weserve other people.
At our family.
Some people's purpose is to bea great mom, great dad, and
their job is to provide food andshow that love to their family.
(29:29):
Can you expound on that?
Brian Bosché (29:31):
When we pass the definition of purpose.
Purpose is the best of what youhave to help others.
It's written the way it'swritten for a reason Help others
.
It doesn't necessarily mean inthe context at work.
It can be in a parentalrelationship, it can be in a
brotherly relationship, it canbe in a friendship.
I have to look at my life, inevery person that I interact
(29:52):
with, with this focusingquestion of how can I give this
person the best of what I have?
How can I give this person thebest of what I have?
If I sit down at a restaurantand the server walks up to the
table, the question must be howcan I give that person the best
of what I have?
And it starts, by the way, withasking them their name right,
(30:14):
because, according to DaleCarnegie, their name is the
sweetest sound to them.
And so, whether you're a mom,whether you're a dad, whether
you're a CEO of a company,whether you're running a
business, the focusing questionis how can I give the best of
what I have to this person inthis team?
If you don't want to dig downdeep and get focused on all the
four elements of purpose and allof that, that's fine.
(30:35):
Just ask yourself the questionhow can I give this person my
best?
How can I give this person mybest?
And if you just ask thatquestion, that means you'll give
your best and you'll also getthe fulfillment feedback loop.
And here's another hack, too,like if somebody doesn't want to
get really granular on theirpurpose discovery.
The one question that I wouldask anybody is, when you look
back at your work and yourcareer, what's been your
(30:56):
absolute most fulfilled moment?
And there's a couple of subquestions who were you helping,
what problem were you solvingand what solution were you
delivering?
And then the final question ishow did it make you feel to do
that?
Who were you helping?
What problem were youdelivering?
And then the final question ishow did it make you feel to do
(31:16):
that?
Who were you helping, whatproblem were you solving, what
solution were you delivering andhow did it make you feel to do
that?
Because if I can get you toidentify the answers to those
four questions, I can encourageyou to do more of that now and
in the future and you canexperience fulfillment on demand
.
Brandon Mulnix (31:26):
My mind immediately went to a time can
experience fulfillment on demand?
My mind immediately went to atime as you were asking me that
question, I literally wasreliving my past and so, yeah,
that question definitely works.
That question is veryintriguing.
It helps people connect.
As you continue to move on yourjourney of helping people find
their purpose, what's one thingthey can do today to help
themselves Is actually to stopand ask that question.
Brian Bosché (31:50):
I mean you can go to purposetestcom and take our
purpose factor assessment.
You can get individual clarityon your purpose, a full 49-page
report plus summary at thebeginning on how to discover
your exact purpose.
20 to 25 minutes it'll be thebest 20 to 25 minutes you spent
in a long time.
But if you don't do that, atleast do this.
Ask yourself that question,because here's the artfulness,
if you will, and the sciencebehind that question who are you
(32:11):
helping?
If you can answer that question, you can look for more of those
type of people.
What problem were you solving?
If you can answer that question, you can look for more of those
problems to solve.
What solution were youdelivering?
If you can answer that question, you'll consistently deliver
that great thing you have.
And how did it make you feel?
You can consistently replicatehow it made you feel, because if
(32:35):
it made the hair on the back ofyour neck raise up because of
how awesome the experience wasand how much they thanked you,
if you absolutely crushed it,the skillset you delivered to
solve the problem, if it was oneof those problems you just love
solving, if it's one of thosetypes of people that you love
helping.
If you can answer that questionand then go out and do the
answers to that question, youwill be ahead of 95% of the
(32:57):
population.
Brandon Mulnix (32:58):
Well, I think, most importantly, it's not just
being ahead of 95% of thepopulation, it's a better
version of you.
Brian Bosché (33:04):
Yes, because it's not a competition.
Brandon Mulnix (33:05):
Yeah, it goes back to even defining success.
What does success look like?
If you don't know what successlooks like for yourself, then
how do you ever achieve it?
Some people it's money, it'sitems, it's keeping up with the
Jones, it's all of these things.
What I've found success to looklike is the joy in other people
, the growth in other people.
(33:26):
It helps me appreciate thesimple things of a sunrise and a
sunset and a really good longtrail, because if I'm giving
myself to others and able tohelp them find their purpose,
then even my time in relaxationis so much better because I'm
able to enjoy the purpose andI've usually got great people
around me at that point becauseit's other people striving with
(33:47):
their purpose.
Man, I mean, I reallyappreciate what you're offering
to our listeners and the factthat purpostestcom this is free,
right, it's not going to costanybody anything.
Brian Bosché (33:58):
That's our full grade purpose discovery test.
But if you don't want to do the49 bucks, there's our book
available for sub 15 or sub 20bucks on amazoncom.
Brandon Mulnix (34:06):
Before I ask Brian to kind of wrap us up here
a little bit with his closingstatements, I just want to say
if finding your purpose isimportant, it's something that
you need in the journey.
Please reach out to me.
I'm going to commit five of thebooks.
If you're interested, reach outto me and I'll get you a book
sent to you.
If that's what's standing inyour way, please don't hesitate
to reach out to me.
(34:26):
I love to give back in that way.
But, Brian, going back to thefolks that are in the industry,
what are your words or lastadvice for them?
Brian Bosché (34:40):
Don't live life in isolation.
The world of social media andAI has served as an isolating
function.
I was just reading a studyactually yesterday or this
morning that isolation anddepression and anxiety exist in
a relationship and if youexperience short-term isolation,
it encourages you to go createcommunity, but if you experience
long-term, chronic isolation,it doesn't.
(35:02):
It has the opposite effect.
You just go further intoisolation.
And the real differentiatortoday among leaders and teams
and effective people will be, inthe age of social media and AI,
the people that generate theinterest and ability to create
connection, because it's inauthentic relationship that
people change.
Here's an interesting study, nota study, a stat.
The kill rate on a lion huntingby itself is like 17%.
(35:27):
The kill rate on a lion huntingin a group or lions is like 51%
.
There are so many tools todayin social media Instagram,
youtube, youtube's a giant placeto either entertain yourself or
educate yourself.
There are so many ways to dothat individually, but in
isolation, anxiety anddepression grow like mold grows
(35:49):
in dark, wet places.
But with people, if we'lldiscover our purpose and do it
with people, our success rategoes higher, way higher, because
it's the power of community,the differentiator for all
companies, like corporatecultures, company cultures and
team cultures.
The differentiator won't be AI,because AI is helpful in a lot
of different ways, but thedifferentiator will be the
(36:10):
companies and teams and culturesthat put people together in
authentic relationship.
Brandon Mulnix (36:16):
So, poultry Leadership Podcast listeners,
not only is it important to findyour purpose, but it's also
important to find your pack.
Find those that you'll huntwith, find those that you'll be
more successful with.
We just appreciate, brian, yourtime You're willing to give to
the industry.
Thank you, poulter LeadershipPodcast listeners.
I have to give a plug out forPrism Controls.
(36:36):
What's interesting is, as Briantalked about finding your pack,
one of our core values is caredeeply about people than
customers.
The reason that's important iswe can't do it alone.
If you don't care about thoseyou're around, if you're not
willing to engage in community,then it's hard for you to feel
connected, even within our owncompany, prism Controls.
(36:57):
So the alignment of that isquite unique.
As you've heard from Brian, asyou've heard throughout other
podcast episodes, just continueto reach out, give the best of
yourself, and the world willcontinue to be a much, much
better place.
Your world will continue to bea much, much better place as you
understand your purpose.
So, thank you, listeners, lookforward to having you guys reach
(37:19):
out and tell me how thisepisode has affected you.
You can find links to connectwith Brian in the show notes and
be willing to share this withyour friends and family to help
them again find their purpose.
So thank you.
Podcast listeners, have a greatday.
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