From $0 to $15k in 3 Years: How To Build an SMMA The Right Way (Student Interview)

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In this video, Keaton Walker interviews Matthew Freestone, who shares his authentic journey from nightclub promoter to successful digital marketing agency owner. Learn how he built a sustainable agency with 20+ clients in the home improvement niche, using innovative strategies like paid trial periods and seasonal optimization. Matthew reveals his unique approach to client acquisition and why taking the "slow burn" path led to greater success than the typical churn-and-burn model. Perfect for aspiring agency owners and digital marketers looking to build long-term client relationships.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/tJ_FsBP6zN0

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Timestamps:

00:00-Overview    
00:24-Gateway to Digital Marketing    
07:13-GHL!    
09:01-"Actual" Free Trial    
13:11-Matt's Past Job    
20:35-Cold Outreach Tips    
24:24-Going Full time agency    
28:55-Gaining clients with a facebook post    
34:00-Branding    
37:42-Scaling the Agency    
41:02-Improving Sales Calls    
48:55-Spending on Coaching    
52:29-What's Next

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#smma #casestudy #successstory

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
If I own the marketplaceand I just put my links
at the top, I'll probablyoutsell all of them.
And that's kindof what happened.
I hated the fact stillselling my time for money.
I was still a freelancer, right?
I don't really feel likeI know what I'm doing.
I can't charge anyone when Ihave no confidence on the phone.
I did your Facebook postsin the group method.
So I think from that onepost, I got like 200 friends.
It does feel very rewarding.

(00:21):
It's a nice thing to do whenyou feel like you're helping
people get to the next level.
How's it going, everybody?
Welcome back to another episode.
Super excited to be herewith Matthew from London.
We've had a couple chances tomeet in person, which is great.
We've worked together off andon over the last few years.
And, um, he has builtsomething really cool
because not only does hehave 20 plus clients and.

(00:45):
An awesome niche, but hehas built them in a way
that's sustainable orthey're coming to him.
He's got a great reputation.
He's not churningthem like crazy.
And he's just taking the slowburn approach that I really,
really think a lot moreagency owners should take.
So I'm excited to dive intowhy you did that, Matthew,

(01:06):
how you did it, and hopefullyinspire some people.
You know, to not churn andburn and build up to 50 K
a month, churn all thoseclients in the next month and
then become an agency coach.
So, um, thanksfor being on, man.
Thanks very muchfor having me, man.
Yeah.
So let's start backat the very beginning.
Um, how'd you get intodigital marketing?

(01:29):
Um bit of a weird one I wasuh, I went to university in a
place called manchester herein the uk and I kind of uh,
I used to promote nightclubs.
I know it's uh, it's notthere's no career in that
but like it got me into thesocial media space in terms
of Using social media to, tosell more tickets for events.

(01:50):
Um, and then I started like amarketplace, uh, like a Facebook
group marketplace for buying andselling, um, sold out tickets.
But then I kind of usedmy authority in that group
to sell more tickets aswell, but like for a long
time, nobody even knew.
I was running that.
Um, and then I graduated, Iworked for a couple of media

(02:13):
agencies, um, mainly runninglike viral media campaigns.
A lot of like, uh, what'scalled mid roll advertising.
So we used to create andcurate viral videos and I'm
in it and you get hit by anad and every time someone
watched the ad, we'd get paid.
That's pretty much how it works.
So did that for a coupleof years, worked with

(02:34):
some big brands and.
Learned a lot, but thenI always wanted to start
my own thing properly.
Like the Facebook group wasgreat, but it wasn't ever going
to be a sustainable businessbecause I don't know, it didn't
have crazy, crazy numbers.
And it also studentsare not exactly the most
affluent of markets.
So, um, yeah, I decidedto start an agency.

(02:58):
Um, so I literally putmy notes in and was like,
Going to start an agency.
I had absolutely no idea whatwas happening, what I was doing.
And within a few months COVIDhit and I, I can't remember
when we started talkingto him, but I remember you
moving to London during COVID.
So we must've, Imust've been, uh.

(03:20):
start communicatingduring that time.
And then when COVID hit,I was like, Oh my God,
this is like the worsttime to be starting this.
And depending on the industry,it might be in some might not
be in others, but yeah, I didn'tknow anything about sales.
I didn't know anything aboutrunning a business really.
Um, and I was like, as soonas that hit and I started

(03:41):
seeing the impact it washaving, I was like, I need
to go get a job again.
Like this is not going to work.
This is not going to work.
And like, I could see themoney that I'd saved up during,
during that time working,going down and I was just
like, Oh my God, like I needto pay rent and stuff like
this is going to be awful.
So, um, I, I got a job foranother media agency, um,

(04:03):
which was like probably thebest agency that I worked
for during that time.
Um, and learned a lot there.
Um, and.
I learned quite a lot aboutlike how they were getting
clients during that time andalso just we we kind of created
like a little side side bit ofthe agency that mainly worked
with creators and I was I wasuh, Put in charge of bringing

(04:24):
some creators on board So Ikind of learned cold, uh, cold
email and that kind of stuffin order to bring people in.
Um, So I did I think I wasthere like 10 months and then
I was like I need to You know Ineed to give this another try.
Right.
And, uh, but I, I, Istill wanted to make
money on the side.
Cause like, uh, a lot ofagency guys, I guess when they

(04:47):
start out, probably like 22,23, uh, or, or younger, and
they don't have as many sortof, Responsibilities and I
had some a lot going on stillso I kind of go I i've told
you what I was doing before.
I don't mind sharing it.
So I used to run Um, I startedfreelancing working with a few
brands and then kind of doingthe agency a little bit on the

(05:09):
side so I was like Doing brandnew campaigns and then the
free, what I call freelancing,I was mainly working with one
client, which was, she ownslike, uh, 12 million worth
of mean pages on Instagram,which is really like in the,
in the girly niche in America,despite the fact that I'm, uh,
clearly a man living in London.

(05:30):
Um, I quite enjoyedthat challenge.
Cause I could, I'd alwaystaken like a very data
driven approach to.
to social media.
Um, that kind of, I rememberlike asking my wife,
like, what are kegels?
I was like, I don'tknow what this is.
I'm posting, posting, postingamoeba, but I was like, I
have no idea what this means.

(05:51):
Right.
So like, it wasalways data driven.
Um, and then, um, Duringthat time, like I was doing
all that stuff, but I stillknew that like I hate, I
hated the fact I was stillselling my time for money.
Like I was still, I wasstill a freelancer, right?
Um, and I always had the agencyon in the back of my mind.

(06:12):
Like I want, I want to Theway that I make money to be
value based and it doesn'tmatter if I work two hours
or 20 hours on account I getthe same get the same amount
of money as long as it's aslong as it's working, right?
So yeah, um, I kind of did it.
So I have a ramble if a ramblecut off cut me off again,
but um, I I kind of uh Duringthat time, I, I kind of fell

(06:37):
on the home improvement spaceand was like, all right,
well, let me, let me tryand learn how to run ads.
Spend a bit of time likeresearching ads really heavily
and paying a few peoplefor a few hours of their
time that were quite a few.
Fair bit ahead of me that knewwhat they were doing and then I
started doing outreach to peopleAnd my offer was um, I will pay

(06:59):
my own money to run your adsfor a month and if it goes well
Um, you can carry on paying youcan carry on paying me So it was
kind of like a free I guess it'sa free trial, but it's even more
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(07:22):
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(09:07):
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It's a paid trial, but youdon't pay for the labor.
You just pay for the ads.
Zuck is the only one thatwins in that situation.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
And I did that becauseone, I was, I had money
from the freelancing,but I didn't have time.
Like I didn't have time tobe doing the level of, I

(09:27):
was working like 30 hoursa week for that lady and
then some other campaigns.
Right.
So I was like, I wantto make it as easy.
Yes.
To get people through the door.
And also I was like, Idon't have a clue what I,
I don't really feel likeI know what I'm doing.
So like, I, I can't chargeanyone when I have no
Confluence on the phone.
'cause yeah, it, it's kind of,it was a case that I knew if

(09:49):
I got results and it worked,the next person I spoke to
I'd be like, look, I did this.
This is the amount ofrevenue they got out.
And I wouldn't be like, I don'tknow, my voice would actually
sound right because I actuallybelieved in what I was selling.
Yeah.
Um, yeah, that's, that'skind of how it started.
And then, yeah, I thinkI did it until I got, I

(10:13):
did four of those as well,which I wouldn't recommend.
Like if, if anyone's listeningto this and thinking you have
to pay everyone's ad spend,you don't need to do four
of those trials, but, um, itwas, and then I fell on the
one right person who like.
In the year after that, I can'tremember the exact timescales.
He did like half a millionin revenue through me.
And so I was like, okay.

(10:34):
And that, that firstfour trials, like they've
paid themselves back.
So, so like that fourthone, um, he's now been with
me for nearly two years.
Right.
But, um, it shouldn't take this,it shouldn't have taken me this
long, but it was always a casethat like, I, I was probably
a bit scared to go all in.
Right.

(10:54):
And I think that's probablythe case with many other
people, but you did likesomething that stuck with me
from the very beginning ofmy agency and entrepreneurial
journey is create belief.
Like, you have to create beliefthat this thing is going to work
or else you're going to have.
Self doubt is going to bechipping away your confidence so

(11:15):
much that you'll, you'll neveractually get to the point where
the business is sustainable.
And so for me, that waswatching somebody else like
firsthand, run a campaign.
Cause you watch YouTubevideos and you're like, yeah,
this could be a complete BS.
I don't know.
Uh, but you watch someonelike, I tried to run ads and
then we hired someone and Iwatched another agency do it.

(11:37):
And I was like, wow,This actually works.
Like I saw the front deskbe overwhelmed with leads
and that's kind of the samething you were looking to do.
So there's, there are otherways, um, rather than paying for
your client's ad spends 40 timesover, uh, but it's so important.

(11:59):
And that's, I think the moralof your story, at least so
far is like, just, let'sjust create some belief and,
um, Like make sure I feelactually comfortable with this.
And, um, you feel likeyou can hold onto your
integrity that entire time.
And I think it'sserved you quite well.
Would you agree?
I would say the samesort of mindset of how

(12:22):
I view things now is.
Um, like I, I, I, I feellike I really care a lot more
than I'm not, I'm not, uh,downplaying other agencies, but
like, uh, I feel like I careabout the results a lot more
than a lot of other people.
And like a lot of agencies are.
The do churn clients say theyview it like I'll just get

(12:43):
three more for everyone thatI lose and I can't just keep
losing them all the time.
But as long as I'm sellingmore than I'm bringing in,
you don't get me wrong.
You can make money doing that.
Um, and you can have awildly profitable agency.
Um, but I I want to work withpeople long term and I, I,
I still, to this day, when aclient doesn't work out for
a client, I hate those calls.

(13:05):
Like I hate those callsbecause I'm just as sad
about it as they are.
Like, and I thinkthat comes across.
So yeah.
Yeah.
Very cool.
Uh, so I want totouch on two things.
The first one is I didn'trealize your Facebook group was
for selling nightclub tickets.
Um, I thought it was just likeManchester students Facebook.
Yeah, it kind ofchanged over time.

(13:26):
Yeah.
So it started as just,um, just the tickets.
So it used to be called likeFalafel, but Falafel is like
a small area of Manchester.
That's, that's, uh, allthe students live and
it used to be calledFalafel buy, sell tickets.
And, um, yeah, there was, itwas mainly making money, like
affiliate fees off of sellingthe tickets or you would buy

(13:47):
a bunch and then resell them.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, um, I was like one of thebiggest sellers for some of
the, some of the big clubs.
Um, and a lot of other peoplewere kind of viewing it and, um,
I guess they were going about itin a kind of door knocking and
selling in the street and thatkind of, that kind of stuff.
Whereas I was like, well, ifI can create, if I own the

(14:09):
marketplace and I just putmy links at the top, I'll
probably outsell all of them.
Um, and that's kindof what happened.
So cool.
Um, And then the jobs thatyou worked in, I think this
is an underrated path tobecoming an agency owner
that some, you know, 18,19, 20 year olds should be

(14:29):
looking into potentially.
Um, can you speak moreto what they were,
what was the first one?
And then what wasthe second one?
And then we talked about thememe page one, but just maybe
talk about each of thosejobs and what they taught
you individually and how thatended up translating into.
The agency today.

(14:52):
Well, that is a thoughtprovoking question.
So the first one wasmore like a media agency.
I had a social media marketing,uh, and production arm to it.
Um, so it was called the hook.
It's actually, it got, acquired,um, fairly soon after I
left, but it had 15 million,um, followers on Facebook.

(15:16):
And we would run, we wouldrun campaigns for brands
and then boost them through.
Um, and they would get, someof them would get really good
organic, uh, organic reach.
And that's why these brandscame to us because they, we
had really good organic reach,but then some that was also
paid that got added into that.
Um, so.
I would say it was probablylike a much smaller, less

(15:37):
well known Ladbib or Unilad.
Like, uh, uh, they're makinglike college humor type content
and they're, the brands arepaying for that to be created
on their platform becausethey have such big reach.
Yeah.
And, and, uh, a lot of it wasthe brand, a lot of it was
based around like film culture.

(15:59):
Uh, yeah.
And they, they also did likeproduction for, uh, after.
Their own videos, like theywould make original content.
It was like comedy sketchesand that kind of stuff.
Um, after that did reallywell, then brands started
approaching them to createcontent specifically
for their own platforms.
And would you say that taughtyou how to make like appealing

(16:23):
ads or what just tell you abouthuman nature and like what
people like and like to share?
Yeah, it taught meabout human nature.
Um, I would say that I'm, if,if when I create vids now,
I, my eyes for thumbnails andstuff like that, it's just.
because I've just postedfar more content than

(16:45):
anyone that I know.
So I like, I just have somuch data on what, what's,
um, attractive to the eye.
Um, and I think it willbecome my, my media background
will become more valuable.
Um, as I make my servicedelivery a little bit more video
centered, because I don't feellike I've been utilizing the

(17:07):
knowledge I have of videos and,and how to formulate videos
that do well on these platformsas much as I should have, um,
probably just because I've beenkeeping my service delivery.
Quite simple.
Um, and that'skind of by design.
So it's easier to scale, butyeah, we'll see where things go.
Not a bad thing at all.

(17:28):
No.
Cool.
And then the second agency wassomething like helping YouTube
creators get on Facebook, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So we did it was um, It was withquite a few different people
that i'd met along along theway but we the two of the owners
of the agency they create likecontent for I don't know like

(17:51):
chelsea football club kfc like,um Uh, big brand, it's not
known in the US but's, a brandcalled Foot Asylum that's really
well known for their, for theirYouTube content here in the uk.
Um, and, but they wanted tocreate a subset, uh, like a,
um, a subsidiary agency thatmainly concentrated on, um, on

(18:13):
the creators and bring creatorsfrom YouTube to Facebook.
So we, I was in charge of,um, helping bring on more
creators, um, which is whereI, as I said, I learned.
More about email markets, like,um, cold outreach, um, and then
managing a team of video editorsin order to, in order to, um,

(18:34):
adapt all of that content thatthey were creating elsewhere
to the Facebook platform.
Um, so some of themwere youtubers, some of
them were tick tockers.
So the tick tockerswe had to take.
The what they were doingcurrently and transition
that to long form, whichis a harder, harder battle.
But if you get it right,there's much bigger payouts
on Facebook than there is on.

(18:54):
Okay.
Yeah, that's, that's somethingyou taught me that Facebook
has like a partner programsimilar to YouTube where
they'll pay you for views.
Yeah Big money, you know, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um to round out this sectionOf the podcast, what is like

(19:15):
the biggest thing you couldteach someone about hooks or,
uh, thumbnails or just videoin general and content like
you've spent probably well over10 hours studying, posting,
looking at data, et cetera.
What's like.
The one or two biggesttakeaways from that, uh,
and then I have a follow up.

(19:36):
I would say that peopledon't consume enough in
their spaces to know howto make good content.
Right.
So I, I speak to some people inmy space now, and they're like,
but how do you make good videos?
And I'm like, well, when Iused to start create, cause I
would sometimes get tasked withcreating videos in verticals.

(19:58):
I had no idea what I was doing.
Like, uh, and the firstthing that I would do is.
Is look at all of the topvideos in that space and then
put them in a spreadsheet,create a new, and I would have
a new Instagram account thatwould like, I would only like
the videos from that space.

(20:18):
So I train the algorithm to showme the best performing stuff.
And then with all thevideo links, I would write
descriptions of why Ifelt like it had done so
well to hook people in.
Um, and then I wouldreverse engineer from there.
So it's just, you needto consume more to
create better, right?
On the cold outreachside, like you're reaching

(20:39):
out to influencers.
I tried this at one point andit is very, very easy to get
ignored by people who are,they're getting 10, 20, 30, 40
cold outreach messages a day.
Um, and you were standingout obviously with a great
offer, which is like,we'll make you more money
with very little work.
Uh, on your end, but what,what was your biggest takeaway

(21:03):
from those, from the cold,like cold outreach you did
to people who are highly,highly in demand and what
tips would you give someone?
I think the way I had topersonalize it a lot more
than I, I would do for,uh, when I started doing it
for, um, local businesses,just cause they do get more,

(21:24):
they do get more messages.
So I spoke to a few careerfriends of mine and they,
and they said to me.
Look, if I can tell when I openany, it's like the first battle
is obviously getting openedand then the second battle I
spoke to a friend of mine who'sa magician and he was like, I
get loads of these messages,but I got one recently from an
agency and I could tell she'dactually Watch loads of my

(21:46):
content, like she referencedstuff specifically near the end
of videos and stuff like that.
So, um, yeah, if you, ifyou, if it's just like, I saw
your content, I feel like youhave valuable input on, on
marketed, like if you're, ifyou're reaching out to you, for
example, and you're gonna belike, well, I have 50 of these
emails today, but if they'rereferencing something you said

(22:09):
five years ago that they'vepicked up on, then they're going
to be like, Okay, he's earnedanother line of reading, right?
Yeah, um, so yeah, I thinkthat was it and I also would
go to other agencies, right?
So I was using LinkedIn andgoing to agents, uh, creator
agencies that I knew had a lotof, a lot of, uh, TikTokers

(22:29):
and YouTubers on their books.
And I was like, wait,if I can get them.
Then I've got loads ofcreators as opposed to one.
So yeah, getting the, thequote unquote, warm intro, like
these people introed me to you.
Yeah.
And if, if you name drop,then they'll respond.
That's good.
Yeah.
Uh, when I was thinking aboutin this, Yesterday was like,

(22:53):
you have to look at someoneand see what they probably are
lacking and offer that versuslike what they already have.
Um, and, and frame it in termsof like something that they
probably think about a lot.
So for me, If anyone listensto this, um, I, I like what

(23:15):
I'm lacking right now islike personal connection.
I'm trying to buildcommunity in my local area.
And so I had like a, a localcompany reach out and was
like, Hey, do you want tohelp promote our thing?
Here's this blah,blah, blah, blah.
And like, I get 10of those a week.
But if I had instead, it waslike, Hey, love your stuff.
Like I've been meaning tolike, connect with more

(23:37):
entrepreneurs, like It'shard to have good discussions
around this kind of thing.
Like I have a meetup,there's five of us going,
like, do you want to come?
That's a hands down.
Yes.
For me.
Cause I get it.
It's not a one on one is like,Hmm, this person might be weird.
I might want to leave10 minutes in, but like
five or six people there.
There's, there's ahigher likelihood of.

(23:57):
Um, enjoying that.
So whatever that is for yourspace, I'm sure there's someone
listening that, that's hopefullythat helped you click something,
but you've got a frame interms of what they're like,
their brain is telling themthat they don't have every day
and they need, which like thecore human needs are not many.
There are few core human needsthat you can probably hit on.

(24:21):
Um, anyway, so backto the agency journey,
you were freelancing.
I think this is when, likethe last time we were working
together, but on an officialbasis, at least you were
freelancing, you were, um, kindof building up your first few
clients, but it wasn't untilabout what eight or nine months

(24:42):
ago that you really went.
Full time with the agency.
It was a bit longer.
I think it wasAugust of last year.
And I, I probably, itprobably would have gone
on for longer than that.
Honestly, that I, cause I knowyou, you told me many times,
like, look, if you're going todo this, you need to be all in.
And I was like, I, I know, butI'm also terrified to do that.

(25:06):
So, um, I kind of got pushedbecause my, the lady that ran
the pages, Became really hard towork with so I was like look i'm
not going to do this now I'm,like when am I going to do it?
And also if it goes horriblywrong i'll do it for six
months and then i'll go getanother job at another agency

(25:27):
And i'm sure there would beagencies that would Take me on.
Um, so Yeah, it's, uh,grown faster, so, okay.
So it was a kind of apush into going full-time.
How many clients didyou have at that point?
Definitely not enough.
, , so I think I hadthree , so, okay.

(25:49):
I'd, I'd signed two.
But the funny thing was I, I,I'd signed two, I, I had that
one free trial, one that I'ddone the trial, like literally.
A year before that right andthen I think they in like
august the year before andthen they signed on with me I
think january of 2023 um, and Iclosed another one in february

(26:10):
of 2023 and then I kind of gotsidetracked by like I A really
attractive rabbit, right?
Like I I I It was quite abig brand that wanted to
work with me So I did thatfor like quite a few months,
but on the meme pages Is andwas still running ads for
two, two or three landscapersas far as my memory serves.

(26:34):
Um, but that was greatbecause like I, in that
six, between February andAugust of last year, I
improved my service delivery.
So I had these three clientsand they would be like,
have you considered doing X?
And I'd be like, That'sa brilliant idea.
And because I only hadthree clients, I was
like, I'll do that.
Right.
I'll do that today.
Like I'll, I'll fix that today.
Like I'll improvethat for you today.

(26:56):
And, um, it's no surprise asfree clients is still with me
because they feel like I'vegot such a good relationship
with them where I've kindof helped build a product
around what they wanted.
Right.
So, um, but that's thesame, same with me.
I have my first freeclient, three clients.
And it's because I, I, I don'ttalk to him much now, but I

(27:18):
treated the first three months.
Like They, they were royalty.
And because of that, likethey've stuck around, you know,
and it's, it's interesting.
Cause I've thought about thismodel a lot where it's like,
look, let's say you only bringon, instead of trying to grow
crazy fast, you bring on oneor two clients a month and you
just roll out the red carpetfor them and make them feel

(27:40):
like really, really valued.
And that's, that's like,talk about passive income.
You could.
build up eventually, let'ssay you did 12 a year, you do
that for three years, you'vegot 36 clients paying you
a thousand to 2000 a month.
And because you treatedthe beginning of the
relationship properly, they'revery unlikely to churn.

(28:01):
Um, as long as yourservice doesn't go.
Yeah, terribly downhill afterand you you've got too many.
Like if you've treatedthem right at the beginning
and you have a bad month,they're like, whatever,
like I, I trust that they'regoing to turn this around.
Um, but that's somebody whoshould start that agency where
they just go really slow.

(28:21):
They get someone who's reallygood at, um, service delivery
on the back end to just runthe ads for them forever.
And then literally all you haveto do is like take the sales
call on board them and like,Your margins are a lot better
because you're not constantlybringing on new clients.
You can have awaiting list as well.
And it would make you feellike it was really exclusive.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

(28:42):
You're like, Oh, I'mactually talking to the guy
or the, the girl herself.
That is, I saw them online.
Like I had a lot of businessowners are really into that.
This person publishes content.
They must be famous.
Um, Okay.
So you're, you're bringing onthese few, that's, that's a good

(29:03):
nugget that they've stayed withyou because of the treatment
you gave them at the beginning.
You end up cutting offyour other sources of
income in August, 2023.
How long did it take you toget to your next few clients
and where did they come from?
I signed, I think, I think twoin August and two in September.

(29:23):
Um, yeah, thatsounds about right.
And then maybe twomore in October.
But like, what I wasn't awarethen, um, which I'm obviously
aware of now, is that everymonth that that was going on,
I was getting closer to theperiod where getting results
in my niche is quite hard.
Um, so I was actually, interms of where they came

(29:44):
from, the first two in August,one of them came from I
think to I think those twocame from cold outreach.
I was still in cold outreachthen I had a VA that was sending
uh emails at scale to my nicheand Then I think september So

(30:05):
I did your I did your facebookpost In the group method,
which, uh, I don't know howmuch I can talk about this.
If this is, I mean, it's kindof, I learned it from you,
but I guess it's just a leadmagnet into a Facebook group.
Right.
So it was, and I, I'm not lyingwhen I say I literally took
yours and changed the wordingto my niche and just put it in.

(30:30):
Um, and what that did waslike, I'm still feeling
the value of that now.
Over, I think I did itin like May, but like it
didn't, it didn't really,like, I still couldn't sell,
I didn't know how to sell.
So like, I think I got quite alot of inquiries off it, but I
didn't, I didn't close people.

(30:51):
Um, but then in September,I think I got one
who asked for that.
So it was like a free download.
It showed my ad thatI'd run for, uh, one of
the, one of the trials.
Um, and just like alittle, little, it
was like a little PDF.
It wasn't, it wasn't great,but it, it, it gave the
basic information that Yeah,um, was helpful to people.

(31:13):
And what it really didwas, um, it helped me
build my Facebook profile.
So I think from that onepost I got like 200 friends
who were all in my niche.
On Facebook.
And then, so one of them inSeptember came from that,
um, he was like a reallylate, like, reply to that.
It just carried ontrickling in for ages.

(31:34):
And was it like, commentand I'll send it to you?
Is that what the post said?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, if I was going to do itagain, I'd say comment your
email because I just keptgetting blocked all the time.
Like it was a nightmare.
But, um, and.
Another one was one ofthe free trials from like
nearly a year earlier.
So it came back eventually.
Right.
Um, and yeah, I think going intothe later months of last year,

(31:57):
it was a bit of a mix of, um,I was doing, started posting
on LinkedIn a little bit.
Um, I got a speaking gig.
Um, which, um, was great.
Uh, they definitely didn'tknow that I didn't have that,
that many clients, but I thinkit was the fact that I could
lean on my previous experience.

(32:18):
Um, and yeah, just startedbuilding my profile
from there, I guess.
Uh, the post in the Facebookgroup with the like info
pack lead magnet, that waskind of, kind of felt like
a meteoric rise in, The UKhome improvement space where
you were like, suddenlybecame this authority, right?

(32:42):
Yeah, I think itstarted that off.
I think it started thatoff and then other things,
other things came into play.
So I think I, I saw that post.
You showed me the postyou did, uh, when you
were running Autopatients.
And soon after that, I alsoread, um, KPI by Dan Priestley.
Um, I don't know if you've readthat book, but really good book.

(33:06):
Um, and pretty much the premiseof the book is, um, it's
like a step by step process.
I'm not going to lay out, butit's, it's to try and make it.
So if anyone thinksabout the service in your
space, they think of you.
And I read that and therewas some key takeaways.
So like, let's say foryourself, if they think of
orthodontic marketing, um,they think of you, right?

(33:28):
That was the goal.
So I did the speaking, startedwriting for the magazine.
So, um, in my space and justcarried on for carried on.
That all came from justthat initial Facebook post
and then continuing to poston Facebook and LinkedIn.
I think it definitely helps.
Um, I think I also, Wasquite good at connecting with

(33:50):
some of the right people.
Um, and I went to some eventsin my space long before I was
working with that many people inthe space because I wanted to be
able to talk their language andI met some good people there.
So yeah, it's cool.
And it's interesting becauseyou're in the UK, like it's
a little more tight knitthan like UK or sorry, us

(34:11):
home improvement conferences.
Like there's probably.
500 a year or something,but you're like your sub
niche of home improvement.
And you're like, you know, we'regoing to go to the UK event for
this, just walking around andthey've, they're like, Oh, I saw
that guy in the Facebook group.
And they're like, Oh, maybe I'veseen him in a magazine as well.

(34:32):
And it starts to create this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think the biggest case Ihad of that, I, I reached
out to someone a lot.
I didn't have a clientin one area and I
reached out to one pit.
I still do.
I don't do a lot of coldoutreach, but every so
often I'm like, Oh, I wanta client in this area.

(34:52):
So let's do it.
That's just message offuency of anything happens.
And I sent this guy a messagelike probably six months ago.
And he just sent, he justreplied with his mobile
number and he didn't have hismobile number on his page.
And I was like, okay,called it straight away.
And he was like, Matt.
So good.
Thanks for reaching out to me.
It's so good to puta voice to the name.

(35:13):
And I was like, what I'venever spoken to you before.
Like, this is crazy.
So yeah, it's the power ofbrand is absolutely madness.
Um, right.
And it's, it's crazy how,how you built that in a
relatively short time.
Like, it's not like it's beenthat long and you know, you used

(35:35):
your, your background obviouslyto leverage some of that, but
there's not enoughbeing said this, I'll
have to read this book.
You said KPI by Dan Priestly.
Yeah.
Um, it does.
Why is it called KPI?
It's a key person of influence.
Ah, okay.
I thought it waslike, yeah, it's like.

(35:57):
Yeah.
It's applied on that.
The, like, that definitelywas part of our, like,
why we got acquired, whyOrthoPatients was acquired.
It was a big part of peoplereaching out to us, like they,
they saw us in their email,they saw us on ads, they
saw us in Facebook groups,they saw we're friends with

(36:21):
a lot of them on Facebook.
Um, we never did any events.
We almost did.
And then like everybodygot COVID that week and we
just like lost the depositand didn't end up going.
Um, butI was talking to a student
last week about thissame thing, but locally.
And they were like, howdo I improve, improve
my show up rates?

(36:42):
Um, And I mean, show uprates are one thing for
like the dental niche.
It's a nightmare, uh, in manyways, but also like close
rates for somewhere in homeimprovements and where you're
showing up to the house and the,the show rate is much higher.
Um, when you were well known.

(37:03):
People know your face, theyknow your brand, it's trusted.
They've been recommendedby other people.
You sponsored the localelementary school track
or whatever it is.
So whatever the equivalent ofthat is in your area, there's
so much to be said for that.
Like there's sure the,the business owners.

(37:24):
Like you can't take creditfor that as the agency, but
if you can select the clientthat is already doing all
of those things, and thenjust throw a little bit of
gasoline on their fire withsome paid ads or whatever else,
it's, it's like game over.
It's like, Oh yeah.
Like it's really easy to closeall of your clients because
they trust you and you'vebeen around for so long.

(37:45):
Um, so from there you went fromthree to around like 20 clients.
Now, would you say.
How many of those clientswould you say just came from
them reaching out to you?
Definitely over half.
Okay.
Very cool.
And it's usually like, Hey, Isaw your thing in the magazine.

(38:05):
I saw you speak.
I saw you.
I think it's, um, it's mainlythey see me in Facebook.
Like now I sponsor a fewFacebook groups, so I'm
allowed to post in there.
So I posted some of those.
Um, when people get tagslooking for, Um, in my

(38:27):
space, I quite often gettagged by my clients now.
Um, I sometimes sendthe, the client who's had
the most recent big win.
I send them the post andsay, can you just show
me some love on this?
Um, yeah, it works really well.
I mean, it just, the opinionof others is worth so much
more than me chiming in myselfand blowing my own trumpet.

(38:49):
Right.
So, um, But I think withthe, with the speaking and
the, um, and the magazine,all of that is just playing
into me becoming reputable.
So I don't think it's, I thinkit's the whole combination
of factors together.
And then they see a post,uh, where I posted a case
study on my Facebook profileand they're like, Okay.

(39:10):
I've seen this guyaround for a long time
in different places now.
Like I should really havea conversation with them.
Yeah.
Maybe there's somethingto this and that is
also very underrated.
Like the amount of clientswe had that they'd have a
sales call and then theywouldn't buy for a year,
like benefits of staying inbusiness, like benefits of not
switching your niche every day.

(39:31):
Five months you start, they'relike, okay, you've, and I
started to get other vendors,like a lot of other vendors in
the orthodontics space beinglike, can you run ads for us?
Cause like I seeyours all the time.
Like you seem to know howto reach these people.
And I was only spendinglike 400 a month.
It's not like our, our, thesepeople's business businesses

(39:51):
were way bigger than mine.
And I was like, man, I shouldstart a, an orthodontic vendor.
Marketing agency, theyprobably have a better product
and like a lot more yearsof experience that I could
just help them market it.
Cause I understand these people.
The other thing I wanted totouch on is like referrals
and Facebook groups.

(40:12):
Just a note, like if youare marketing to any sort
of business that wouldbe recommended by someone
else in a Facebook group,that is your competition.
Like you're saying, Hey,pay me two grand a month
and 1500 and ad spend.
And, uh, we'll getyou some clients.
And they're like, But Joanne,like I redid her kitchen three

(40:35):
years ago and she recommendsme to everyone and she's on
Facebook 24 seven and I don'thave to pay her anything.
And um, so a recognize that'syour competition, but B this
works in the local space aswell, like massively and some
of the best marketing foranyone is just being Facebook
group or next door or whatever.

(40:56):
It's so powerful.
Um, so I want to go to salescause I remember, uh, listening
to some of your early salescalls and kind of coaching.
We won't go into detail,but, uh, it certainly seems
like you've improved, butalso, I mean, having warmed

(41:17):
up people already trustyou is half the battle.
Uh, but what have you learnedabout the sales conversation?
What is, what are some uniquetakes you feel like you
have or things that you'velearned through the process?
I think I was just when Istarted, I was just really
lacking the confidence.
As I said before, I alsodidn't have like a proper,

(41:39):
a proper process in place.
Um, I generally think thatI do well with it now.
I don't, I by no means thinkI'm some sort of sales expert.
And like, I think the reone of the reasons that I've
gone so heavy on buildingthe brand is because, um,
I, I did like those skills.

(41:59):
So I was like, if, if I havepeople coming to me and they've
seen testimonials and thiskind of stuff, then they,
they are more like, like, it'sgoing to be an easier ride.
Um, I think that, and the factmy author is, is pretty good.
Um, and the fact that people,uh, people seem to, we'll

(42:21):
see what the viewers think,but people seem to typically
like me on sales calls.
Like, I think thatcounts for a lot.
I think I, I do.
I do ramble a lot on salescalls, but I think people
can see that I am quite likemy authentic self and the
confidence with My product, um,is what comes is what comes off.

(42:41):
Like I don't think any ofthem can deny my confidence
with, with what I'm doingand the results I've got.
I think the subtext of thatis like loving your niche.
If you hate talking to them,like your sales percentage,
it's going to be lower.
Yeah.
It's just the way it works.
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
When you say, um,you ramble a lot.

(43:04):
And the offer is good.
Talk us through, like, whatis the actual pitch look like?
And how have you cometo confidently say that?
Like, if you were pitchingme right now, maybe walk
us through what's happenedso far in the sales call
and then what do you say?
Mainly just like, uh, theproblems they've been having
previously with, uh, Withlead generation, what they've

(43:26):
tried, um, where they'relooking to get to all the,
all the normal stuff, all thecloser framework type stuff.
Like it's, uh, it's nothing,it's nothing amazing.
Um, but it works.
I definitely try and go alevel, like go a level deeper
than some people do in theUK sometimes, which can be
quite hard with a lot of.

(43:48):
Builders here in theUK are very type A.
So I, I, I think I've learnedwith time, which people you can,
you can, uh, do that with andwhich people just want to crunch
the numbers and see and seecase studies and how it works.
Right?
So it's so huge whatyou just said, though,
like, just read the room.
Yeah.
Freaking room becausethere's some sales

(44:11):
calls I've listened to.
I'm like, this is the mostawkward thing in the world.
The other person is just beggingfor the pitch and you're like
gatekeeping it for no reason.
Let's just move on.
Just tell them they're there.
Seems like they candecide pretty quickly as
long as you give them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think as I've built mybrand, I've had to, I've stopped
doing a lot of stuff causethey are, they are just like

(44:32):
itching to see how it works.
Right.
I was on a call with someoneearlier and they were like,
how much does it cost?
And I sometimes tellthem that on the intro
call, I sometimes don't.
Um, but I told him,look, we'll, we've got a
call book for Wednesday.
We'll go over everythingthat's involved.
Um, and I'll show you,I'll show you what other
people are investinginto the, into different

(44:53):
variations of the program.
Right.
And, and he was like,well, whatever it is.
Um, I want to pay itbecause like I'll just
factor into the job.
So yeah, I'm excited forWednesday and I'm like, okay, it
could be like 20 grand a month.
You don't know,it's not going to be, but yeah,
that's kind of the, I definitelyfeel like I've had other people
on those calls where I'm like,Okay, like it's quite often now

(45:17):
where it's just like, I justneed to move on and just get on.
Great.
And what, when you doshow them, like, are you
going through some slides?
What is the pitch?
Yeah, I go through slides.
I would like to not gothrough slides, but I, um, I

(45:38):
suffer with really bad ADHD.
So I would, I would go veryheavily off course if I,
if I didn't use slides.
Um, I think withoutusing slides.
Like, I think you can use,I probably will reduce the
amount of slides I use, um,and then just have it more
bare bones because I thinkit is a bit overdone, but

(45:59):
in terms of the slides, it'sjust, um, the result that I'm
looking to achieve from allmy clients, uh, case studies.
Showing them, showing themthe ads, showing them the
follow up systems, um,showing them, um, yeah, just
how that full system works.
Um, and then just the offer, theguarantees and, and the money.

(46:23):
Like it's, it's pretty simple.
Um, and there's, there'sprobably a lot more that I
can do with it, but I guess ifit's not broke, don't fix it.
Type six.
What do you mind sharingthe offer and the
guarantee you're running.
Yeah, um, so it's uh 20inquiries, um minimum every

(46:43):
single month or you don't paya penny and that includes ad
spend all right, so I mightchange that at some point
because uh I I've had a coupleof difficult markets and i've
paid people back money atpoints but um It's worth it to
get them in on the front end.
Like it's i'm fine.
I'm fine with it.
Um So yeah, it's, it'sdefinitely a risky offer.

(47:06):
Um, but it makes it, I thinkthe key is you're not leading
with it in your marketing.
Like you're leadingwith authority.
I know what I'm doing.
Like they're not coming on thecall being like, great, I'm
going to get this guaranteed.
So it's not attracting that.
And their mind frame isdifferent where it's like,
Hey, by the way, just to makethis a no brainer today, it's.
Yeah.

(47:28):
Yeah.
I think I, I think I'll changeit soon because I had a guy
recently that has had me onFacebook for well over a year
and he's, he's uh, he's quite,he's quite well known in the
space and he was like, Matt,I don't want you doing that.
I don't want you puttingyour head on the chopping
block every month.
Like I want tojust work with you.

(47:48):
And I was like, Oh my God,the times have changed.
Like, this is, this is crazy.
Um, so yeah, I think Ican probably reduce it.
And I probably, uh, yeah,I shouldn't be having such.
That is huge.
That's it's, it's the,uh, caliber of client.
I would say, and, and certainlywhere you're getting to,

(48:11):
but the caliber of clientthat like, I, I sign up for
something nowadays and someone.
Drops a guarantee.
And I'm like, it's aturnoff for me because I
don't, I don't need it.
I don't want it.
Like we both know this isthe, the results are unknown.
And I, I just want to trust youbased on your character, not
your guarantees, but somebodywho's a bit greener in that

(48:35):
space would certainly like it.
So it's, maybe it's somethingyou can reserve or like
you're talking to somebodylike, I don't think I need
to say it here, or, uh, youwere talking to someone and
they're kind of hesitant and.
You're like, Hey, what if wedo this for the first three
months, this is a guarantee.
And then after that, we, yeah,yeah, I think that's wise.

(48:58):
The other thing I really thinkyou do quite well is you've
probably spent, I don't know,you can tell us the full number,
but tens of thousands of dollarson coaching, but you do it in
a very unique way where you'rekind of like find the person
that you want to talk to.
And then you just.
Yeah.
Thanks.
Pay them for an hour oftheir time, pay them for an
hour of their time, kind oftriangulate all this stuff.

(49:20):
But from the beginning, likeyou've been, you've been
one to spend on coaching.
Like, I think you bought my veryfirst ever course thing, which
was like 45 two hour courseof like how I grew my agency.
You're like, this was awesome.
And, uh, yeah, but you've,how much would you say you've
spent on stuff like that?
And what's yourrecommendation to people?

(49:42):
Because I think youfocus heavily on service
delivery and the consultingthat you've gotten.
And finding that canbe tough sometimes.
Yeah, I don't actually,I can't lie and say I've
tidied up the numbers.
But, um, yeah,it's a fair amount.
And it's, it's been, it wasoriginally all in courses.

(50:02):
Um, and I don't think I spentloads and loads on courses.
I always liked the, Ialways liked the finding the
right person and the call.
And people will surpriseyou sometimes when you offer
people money for a call.
Sometimes they don'twant to take your money.
It's lovely.
Um, and so sometimesI heard that from an

(50:23):
entrepreneur ages ago.
He was like the people that.
Have lots of money sometimesthey don't need your money
But they respect the fact thatyou've led with that instead
of saying can we hop on a calland i'll pick your brain Yeah,
I mean like it's it's goingback to like leading with what
people are lacking Sometimesthey're lacking that sort of
like they want to be a mentorThey look at all the other

(50:45):
coaches and like they're busyon their agency or busy with
whatever else And you givethem that opportunity to like
give back and they're stokedon it, which is really cool.
Yeah Oh, yeah on this Thereis a, I'm never, I'm never
going to like get into coachingspace, but it's, I can, having

(51:05):
had someone recently whowanted a couple of my hours
of, um, my time like that,it does feel very rewarding.
You know what I mean?
Like it's, it's a, it's,it's a nice thing to do when
you feel like you're helpingpeople get to the next level.
But, um, yeah, I definitelya lot of those calls and it's
been the best investmentsI've done it myself.

(51:26):
And how do you find the people?
I remember where I found you.
I found you on, uh, I found youon Trey Cochram's, uh, YouTube,
um, age, like age, it musthave been like a few months
after you started Autopatient.
So that just shows how longthis has taken me, right?
But yeah, um, But I, I foundother people in that way.

(51:50):
So I go, because I don'twant the people that are
like the authority on thisspace or like 150 K a month,
because one, they're goingto be really expensive.
And two, they're going to,they're going to be talking
about stuff that I do.
I literally justdon't understand yet.
Like, and it's not the problemsI want the people that.
Um, went through what,uh, went through it more
recently, so it's so morefresh on their minds.

(52:12):
So I would find those guysand then look at their
video testimonials sometimesand be like, Oh, okay.
This guy's a X amount.
Let's have a conversationwith him, um, and ask
him, Hi, I saw you on X.
How much for an hour of yourtime to learn what you were
talking about with that, with Y.
Most of them were quite.
Fine to do that, right?

(52:33):
So what's next for you as youlook into, I mean, the next
couple of months, you saidsomething interesting before
we hit record that you shouldprobably repeat, um, in terms
of what you're doing with theslow season in your industry.
Um, so I'd love to hear that.
And then talk to us aboutwhat, what's, what are
your goals for the next.
Two years, let's say.

(52:55):
Ooh, two years.
I feel like I, I feel like Ilook at things on so much more
of a shorter term now that Iprobably should have written
down like longer term goals.
But, um, do you want me todo the goal first or the
what I've done in the work?
Yeah, talk about likeNovember and December
and what you're doing.
Um, so November and Decemberin my space, it is really

(53:17):
hard to get results.
And I learned that the hard way,cause I had to pay a guy back,
uh, for not hitting guaranteesin November last year.
Um, he actually wouldn't takea hundred percent payment back.
He would only take 50%.
So he didn't make me payhim back the ad spend.
He's actually someone I'mstill friendly with, but learn
a lesson there, which was.
This industry is reallyhard at this time of year.

(53:39):
So, um, I've actually justover the last few weeks, I
paused most of my clients.
Um, and with, uh, with it inmind that we'll turn them back
on at the start of next year.
Um, and I've actuallyactively, um, Um, it's
not the case that they'veall seen results drop off.
I've encouraged them to do so.

(54:01):
Um, bit of a hit torevenue, obviously.
Like it doesn't, itdoesn't help me in any way.
Um, apart from the fact that alot of the business that I've
got is through reputation.
So like, I'd rather work withme for one, nine, 10 months of
next year, then I'm trying toget results now and then churn

(54:22):
before, um, that's, they'regoing to get the most bang
for their buck in terms of,uh, in terms of their spend.
Um, and it also kind ofpositions me as a, I've got one
client actually that startedwith me in January last year
and he posted in a Facebookgroup saying, I'm looking for
more leads, um, in November.
Um, so he started with meJanuary this year, he posted

(54:45):
November of last year.
And I, I reached out tohim and said, look, you've
probably been bombarded withmessages from marketers.
Um, I just want to let youknow that I've turned off all
my clients and now is not avery good time to run ads.
So if you can get through tillJanuary, um, I would recommend
you run ads in January.
Um, and we went back andforth a little bit and then he

(55:05):
came back to me and was like,Matt, what'd you actually do?
And then we got that.
I hadn't really toldhim anything, right?
Like it was just, it wasjust me genuinely being like.
Look, you're goingto get bombarded.
Just be careful becausethere's going to be a lot of
people that are promising theworld and they can't deliver.
Um, and then hesigned on January.
I was killing it.
I was killing it.

(55:25):
And he's, he's beenwith me ever since.
And it's just like, I feellike, uh, by viewing things
in that way, the people thatI speak to now, like this guy
understands our space, likehe understands now it's the
down season and he can getbetter results for us then.
So it makes me more trustworthy.
Right.
I want to get to, I probablylook at this on a very short,

(55:48):
short basis, but I want tobuy April, April of next year.
Um, cause when I, when yousaid I've got 20 clients, I've
got some that are paying solittle, but they're like from
right from the start whereI was like, do I do whatever
to get them through the door?
No, just someone thatI just never raised
up cause I love work.
Um, I would liketo get to like 20.

(56:10):
25k pounds in revenue bylike April, May next year.
Um, so We'll seeif that can happen.
I might need to turnon some other taps.
Um in order to do that, um,which i'm aware of but I I
think The top that I have interms of my personal brand.
I've heard if you do, ifyou, if I run ads with the

(56:33):
personal brand, yeah, itshould hopefully crush it.
So yeah, that's what Iwas just going to say.
Yeah.
You turn on ads.
You probably don't evenhave to spend that much.
You're going to be gettinga hundred dollar booked
calls, which is unheard of.
Like with the size ofyour niche, how well you
are already known there.
It's like.
All the people have like, yeah,I've been meaning to reach out.

(56:54):
There's just not aneasy way to do it.
I find that thatthat's what ads do.
Like it's just.
It's like, Oh, I'm, you'relike, I'm forcing this in
your feed and it doesn'tfeel invasive, like a DM
or an email or whatever.
Um, even though it ismaybe equally as invasive,
people are just used to it.

(57:16):
And they're, it'slike, Oh, great.
Good excuse to like, Yeah.
Yeah.
I've purposely used the same onephoto of my face and everything
that I've put out as well.
So like, whether that be whenI'm speaking gigs, the post,
like the marketing material forthat, the magazine, my Facebook

(57:39):
profile, my LinkedIn profile.
So I'm thinking that I'llprobably just do it from a page
that's my name as opposed to theagency name and be like, yeah.
There's that guy again.
Okay.
Fine.
Yeah, very smart.
Uh, okay.
So turn on ads nextyear, like January time.

(58:00):
Yeah, it might, it mightbe, but I think it, I might
do in December and see, uh,just, uh, to sign people
for sign people for Jan.
Um, so what does your teamlook like at this point?
Yeah, good question.
Um, still just me that same VA.
Um, so that VA has gone fromblasting emails to doing a lot

(58:25):
of other little admin tasks.
He, he can now do all ofthe backend onboarding
outside of the ad.
So I've got it.
Like, I think you showed mean SOP for, Um, for onboarding
ages ago and I still had ascreenshot of it somewhere and I
was like, I need to create this.
I did that and I, I got himinto, I got him onboarding

(58:48):
all the clients and thenI was like, all right,
now I need a media bias.
So now I've got, I, overthe last like month and
a half, I tested a mediabar on three new accounts.
Um, he's got good experiencein this space in the U S.
Um, and now, um, He's, he'sdone well so far in the UK.
Um, and it's, it's niceactually having someone go

(59:10):
through your ad accounts,you know, like, wow, I've,
I've, I thought I knew a lotand I still feel like I know
a lot, but this guy's makingchanges that I was unaware of.
Right.
So, um, just us three for now.
And then I think the nextlogical thing is that
I would like to, um, Iwould like to use my media

(59:31):
knowledge and, um, bring onsomebody to do more video.
Um, so I'm not sure I'm workingout the kinks of what that
looks like at the moment, but,um, like for your clients,
like making video ads for them.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Um, cause I feel like that'smy unfair advantage compared
to a lot of agencies.

(59:53):
Um, I think it, if Iwere to lay out your,
Two or three year plan.
I think you could start totake maybe some equity or
percentage deals with peopleand that would get over the
seasonality problem as well.
Cause it's like, Oh, look,we made, I think you get
two months off over theholidays, which is great.
And then you also, um, youactually, you just get a piece

(01:00:16):
of the upside for the 10 monthsthat you're running ads and
you could also help them withrebranding and, you know,
All of the other stuff thatreally makes sense for them.
So taking like your bestclients and putting them in
a tier that's like, yeah,I'm getting X percentage and
I have some phantom equity.
If you sell or full equity,obviously the legalities of

(01:00:39):
that, I am on qualified tospeak on, uh, but I have seen
people do it successfully.
And I think you're, you'repositioned well to do that with.
With the agency work that you'redoing with them being like the
vetting process where it's like,okay, I know they can close.
They're doing great.
I've grown their business byX percentage this year alone.

(01:01:00):
What if next year we just doa percentage and like, Hey,
I'd be even more motivated.
We could send avideographer out.
We could redo the website.
We could do all this stuff.
And, um, I just take percentageof revenue based on where you're
at now and above or where you'reat when we started and above.
That was cool.
That's good bit of advice.
It's just.

(01:01:21):
I guess my reservation is liketracking systems and stuff.
It's, it's not.
It's, uh, it's also just thecase the more I've done this,
the more I've realized that likea lot of the leads through me,
um, do not come through the,the, uh, the call to action
on the ads, they do so muchbackground, they do, they, they

(01:01:44):
go head to the website and theyget loads of different stuff.
So it's like, It's hard to, it'sstill hard to track in that way.
Um, yeah.
What if you could control,I'm just saying like, if
you're like, look, I'm theCMO, then you get to benefit
from all of those things.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's a good idea.
I found one little subniche last, last Christmas

(01:02:06):
that I've now, it's funny.
Actually, I rewrote the PDF.
Guide for this niche, uh theother the other day So it's
actually gonna be a loom thistime because I just can't I I
just want to make it quick AndI think the loom is uh, it's
actually more valuable, buti'm gonna drop that on it's
easier to consume as well Yeah,yeah, yeah for sure for sure.

(01:02:26):
Um, and that's it.
That's a sub niche thatIs more popular in the
lead up to Christmas.
So it could be,it could be smart.
Yeah.
Love it, man.
Um, cool.
And the, the title ofthis podcast is supposed
to be what, like zeroto 15 K in three years.
It's been a bumpy road,bumpy road, but, uh,

(01:02:53):
It's worth continuing.
Like when you were talkinga minute ago about like, uh,
by being in the same spacefor so long, I've got two
clients, um, that are with menow that I had a sales call
with in January of last year.
And, and they both cameback to me organically and
they were like, I wasn't ina position to do it then.

(01:03:13):
I've seen you somuch since then.
Can we do it now?
And I'm like, okay, butthere's a few updates.
The pricing has goneoff a bit, but yeah,
it's definitely, that's so cool.
I think you could reallydrive some, some positive,
like, like people salivatingfor the offer with.

(01:03:36):
Limiting spots as well.
Like I only have this manyspots open for January.
The they're already half full.
Um, the reason I do thisis so that everybody has
a white glove on boardingexperience, whatever.
So that could be cool.
And then they, they comebegging to, you're like,
sorry, they wanted even,they're like, I'll pay double.

(01:04:02):
Cool, man.
Thanks so much for coming on.
And, um, I'm sure this isgonna help a ton of people.
So appreciate it.
No problem at all.
No problem at all.
Thanks for having me, Kian.