September 10, 2025 • 17 mins
Outrage isn’t new, but the way it plays out in 2025 feels like a full-time industry. This week, it’s Phillies fans brawling over a foul ball, a CEO swiping a signed hat at the US Open, Bruce Willis’ family facing judgment in a Diane Sawyer interview, and American Eagle cashing in on controversy with its headline-grabbing campaign.
Here’s the problem: every headline slaps the same word on these stories—backlash. But backlash and blowback aren’t the same thing. If you don’t know the difference, you’re missing the real story.
In this episode:
- The Phillies “Ball Snatch” dad who turned a viral mess into a lesson in staying calm.
- The US Open “Hat Grab” CEO who folded fast—and why it saved his business.
- Bruce Willis’ family’s media strategy, turning online judgment into strategic storytelling.
- American Eagle’s outrage marketing proves that some brands script backlash into their budget.
- Why the age of the public apology is over—and what leaders are doing instead.
The September takeaway? Backlash reveals character. Blowback reveals strategy. And knowing which one you’re seeing could be the difference between chaos and control.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Molly McPherson (00:00):
If outrage had a season, it would be late
summer 2025.
Tennis matches, baseball games,a Diane Sawyer interview.
Honestly, I didn't realizeDiane Sawyer was still working
at ABC News and that jeans adit's back.
All of it has been caught inthe churn and every headline, it
seems, carries the same wordbacklash.
(00:20):
But let's get somethingstraight.
My opinion, backlash andblowback aren't the same thing.
Let me tell you what I toldpeople on stage last week at a
keynote in Columbus, ohio.
There is a difference and itmakes a big difference to news
coverage and reputation.
It's the week of September 8th2025, a week that a crisis
manager like myself gets herselforganized because I'm bracing
(00:43):
for the hit.
September is the time where wesee a lot of stories that cause
a lot of reputational damagebecause they've been planned.
Late summer is when we see alot of viral stories.
There's a newsy overlap betweenviral stories that take off in
the summer.
Think Astronomer, americanEagle.
Taylor Swift appears on apodcast and that podcast
(01:05):
explodes and then she's engaged.
Oh my gosh, double gasp.
That time of year allowed for astory like that to overtake the
news cycle and also the socialmedia cycle.
But let's look at the week inbacklash First, did you see me
on the Today Show last week?
News (01:23):
Dr Beryl trying to win back its loyal base by adding a
taste of Southern comfort backto the menu.
Molly McPherson (01:29):
And when the public rises up around a
cultural idea or an identitylike Cracker Barrel, it could
have a dramatic effect on theprofits.
What you don't watch morningnews anymore.
Sadly it's going down, but theydid a great story about Cracker
Barrel.
They asked me late in the dayto record a piece that would air
(01:49):
in a package the next morning.
Even if you watched it or not,what you didn't hear was my best
soundbite where I explain thatbacklash is values-driven and
blowback is more strategic, andknowing the difference is the
only way to understand whatyou're actually watching.
Let's look at stories from thispast week.
Case one the Phillies ballsnatcher.
I know you saw the viral video.
(02:12):
It was Marlins versus thePhillies.
The baseball drops right infront of a female Phillies fan
wearing a Phillies jersey.
She's next to, I believe, herhusband and it looks like a
younger adult son.
They're reaching down to getthe ball.
Meanwhile dad scurries over,picks up the ball and then runs
back and gives it to his son.
Then the woman jumps down,scurries to the dad and gives
(02:35):
him a piece of her mind.
Enter the villain.
The woman crawls over the seatand storms down to the dad,
insists that the ball belongs toher.
The dad puts his hands up, justputs it in the glove.
You took it from me.
You took it from me.
News (02:55):
You took it from me.
You took it from me.
Molly McPherson (02:59):
She gets booed and then she flips off the crowd
so dangerous.
I think what we have here is acase of a dad who understands
baseball culture and a woman whoclearly does not.
Now I saw this viral clip on aweekend trip with three of my
kids.
We went to Wrigley to visit mydaughter, kate, who secured us
(03:20):
with awesome seats.
She's in her first year of ajob in sales in the
developmental sales program.
We had an amazing day atWrigley.
It was Cubs versus Nats.
We thought for sure the Cubswould beat the Nats.
Did not happen and, as a sidenote, jeff Garland from Curb
your Enthusiasm threw out theopening pitch, which was really
curious because he didn't throwit and I had said I posted this
(03:41):
to Instagram.
I was asking my kids like, isthis a bit Like?
What is he doing?
Immediately we all said likehey, wasn't he canceled?
And then we had to figure outwhy Jeff Garland was canceled.
But he didn't want to throw theball, so he did this kind of
bit where he just tosses it likehe walks up to home plate.
It was odd, it was a curiousmove, but anyway, while that was
happening, we were watching theviral clip about what happened
(04:02):
at the Phillies game in Miamiand there was something about
that video.
I couldn't hear the sound, butthere was something in the
nonverbals that I saw that kindof stood out, and so I had to
ask my son.
I'm like, well, wait a minute,here I see something.
And we discussed the rules.
Anybody's game, you know.
When a ball goes into thestands, it's anybody's ball.
And the other unwritten rule,like there's an unwritten rule
(04:24):
in baseball, when a baseballgoes in the stands, anybody can
grab it.
And then the other unwrittenrule if the ball is anywhere
near a kid or an adult gets it.
You kind of give the ball tothe kid.
I will say this from thebeginning the woman was wrong.
There was no doubt she waswrong.
The dad great move to hand thatball back to the kid.
Why that event was amplifiedmore, don't get me wrong.
The dad great move to hand thatball back to the kid.
(04:45):
Why that event was amplifiedmore, don't get me wrong.
This woman was wrong, but Iunderstand what ticked her off.
First of all, the ball comes in.
They're clearly going for it.
So she has an expectation thatshe's getting that ball.
He also knew baseball rulesthat he was allowed to snatch
the ball for his son.
Of course he snatched the ball.
(05:05):
When emotion hijacks yourrational thinking, it hijacked
the woman, there's no doubtabout it.
It hijacked the dad.
He saw a ball.
He's like I'm getting that ball.
But then the dad calmed himselfand this is where I give him
tremendous props.
He calmed himself instead ofgetting overly reactive, because
we know there's plenty ofbaseball dad self for the sake
(05:26):
of his son and people, parentswho control their emotions for
the sake of their kids those arethe people who deserve kudos,
in my opinion.
But that woman, when she walkedback and she gave everyone the
finger, I thought this woman hasnot been in enough ballparks.
She does not know what she'sdoing.
The outrage.
So that's where I ran to mymedia partner, muckrack.
(05:46):
I had to scour all the articlesout there.
I had to watch the video spreadand see the feedback comment
sections.
They exploded.
Strangers online startedsleuthing to figure out who she
was and what I find fascinating.
People still don't know who sheis and I have to give credit
here, I actually don't knowonline because I was looking at
Muckrak.
I don't know if she's beenouted yet.
(06:07):
Honestly, maybe by the time ofthis recording.
She will have been outed.
But I like news outlets ifthey're not outing people,
because personally I don't likevigilantism, I really don't.
This woman got beat up enough.
She got it in the stadium andshe got it in the ballpark and
she got it through viral footage.
I don't love outing this womanbecause her life will be just
(06:28):
overrun and destroyed because ofan emotional moment, and people
need to understand when theemotion takes over.
It's what you do with it.
Now this dad has been doing themedia rounds Immediately.
He spoke with NBC 10 inPhiladelphia and explained that
he was attending the game withhis wife, daughter and son to
mark the birthday.
He told the outlet quote wewere just trying to make this
week about him.
I felt like super dad, puttingthat ball in his glove and
(06:50):
giving him a hug.
I wouldn't be surprised if Drewworks in communication media or
he's just a smart guy.
He knows how to put together areally good soundbite.
He explained that he's still indisbelief that she walked down
there like that, so framing heras crazy.
He instead wanted to focus moreon just trying to set an
example of how to de-escalate asituation in front of my son.
(07:13):
I gotta hand it to Drew.
That's a great quote and in thevideo altercation the woman you
could hear her say that wasours, so you know where the
outrage came from.
Day to day she's probably adecent person, but in that
moment she wanted that ball.
Now his last line left a mark.
He says, quote I hope that ballmeans a lot to her.
News (07:34):
Drew passed the viral test .
Molly McPherson (07:36):
Everybody thinks that he is a hero.
Kudos to the Marlins.
They went down immediately,gave him a gift bag, even though
he's a Phillies fan.
Then, behind the scenes, we seefootage of Dave Dombrowski.
He's the president of baseballoperations and someone who I
spoke to in line at Boston LoganAirport when he was headed down
for spring training and I washeaded to Florida for something
else.
Then Harrison Bader, the playerwho made the home run, gave him
(07:59):
a signed bat, and other peopletried to profit off of it as
well.
Marcus Limonis he was the starof the Prophet.
He offered the kid and hisfamily a trip to the World
Series.
Oh, and he's throwing in an RVas well, because he's the CEO of
Camping World.
You're going to see a lot ofthat happening, but these viral
moments are what the news livesfor.
(08:20):
It's what social media livesfor.
It's what social media livesfor.
They love it because it tapsinto outrage, and outrage is
backlash, just like whathappened with case two, the hat
grab.
It's another adult sports fansnatching a souvenir from a kid.
We're back in New York now.
A polis tennis star wins thematch at the US Open.
(08:41):
A kid we're back in New Yorknow A polis tennis star wins the
match at the US Open, tries togive a signed hat to a boy in
the crowd.
Enter the villain.
Before the kid can reach out,bam CEO snatches it from him.
The video blows up.
The outrage was swift.
The CEO eventually foldedbecause everybody had to figure
out who this guy was.
It's a viral moment.
(09:02):
Late August they're going tofind out who he is.
He sends the hat back and heapologizes publicly and calling
it quote extremely poor judgmentand a painful but necessary
lesson in humility.
That was a good call becausethat guy's business was
struggling.
Plus, there was another PolishCEO who runs a very similar
(09:23):
business who was attacked, whosebusiness was attacked online.
This business owner told theNew York Times that he had a
deluge of phone calls that wereso intense he couldn't cope and
his Google ratings cratered.
This backlash can cause serious, serious problems.
That's why this CEO writing anapology was smart.
He needed to do that.
(09:43):
He said quote I'm an honestentrepreneur who's been building
his image for so many years andin two days it was crushed to
dust.
That's a great quote.
He was humble, he was showinghumility.
That was a good move.
Again, it's that emotional,intensive moment.
You see a lot of it happeningat sports where a person many
times souvenir hunters or justpeople feel like they're owed
(10:06):
something and they want it.
But backlash works whereaccountability is missing.
You either own it or you doubledown and say nothing.
The Polish CEO fan he chose theformer because the public
reaction made the other choicelook smaller and meaner.
Here's another quick case ofbacklash that really kind of
(10:28):
wasn't, but it was in the story.
I was reading a headline thismorning, actually the day before
this recording about BruceWillis and Demi Moore, case
three, and this one is not wellknown and didn't go as viral.
But I went back to Muckrack tolook for the articles to see the
point of view.
It was an interview with ABCNews with Diane Sawyer
interviewing Emma Hemming Willis.
(10:50):
That is Bruce Willis's wife.
She's much younger, she's aformer model and they have young
kids.
But of course more people arefamiliar with Bruce Willis's
first wife, demi Moore.
Demi Moore also did aninterview with Oprah.
There's a lot of stories outthere about Bruce Willis's
declining health and these aregood stories because they're
really shining a light on hishealth.
(11:11):
So clearly they have publiciststrying to keep this story in
the news and it's understandableand there's a value attached to
it, because Bruce Willis issuffering from a progressive
disease called frontotemporaldementia.
It's a brain disorder.
They're giving a lot ofpublicity to this disorder and
that can always help.
(11:31):
And that's what things that shementioned was the backlash,
because people were judging herfor putting Bruce Willis in a
home to care for him as opposedto being home with her and the
young kids.
One of the quotes that she saidduring the interview was that
(11:53):
Willis was in great healthphysically but his brain is
failing him.
That's just a great quote.
I like it because it's goodframing.
And she mentioned that there wasa lot of intense backlash on
the internet judging her forputting him in a home.
They used backlash quite nimblyby using blowback as a means to
(12:16):
explain why he's in a home.
Backlash is when peopleemotionally react to something,
but planning for blowback can bequite strategic, which is what
I think this story with DianeSawyer and also Demi Moore
speaking with Oprah.
They use it quite well all ofit, and it's for the greater
good.
The same blueprint is therewith American Eagle.
(12:38):
Now I've talked about AmericanEagle at length.
I did a CNN hit a couple weeksago.
That story ran for days.
News (12:47):
And we're joined now by crisis and reputation strategist
Molly McPherson.
All right, Molly, you, in aTikTok response to the ad, say
everything is choreographed fora reason.
So help us understand the bigquestion.
Do you think American Eagleexpected a big reaction?
Molly McPherson (13:08):
Absolutely.
This is the modern formula foroutrage marketing.
You spark debate, you driveengagement, you ride the wave
and then, when the dust settles,american Eagle gets the clicks,
the coverage and also the cash.
Again, it happened in August,but it was strategic.
American Eagle knew that theywere going to get blowback.
(13:29):
They were prepared for theblowback.
They rolled out the SidneySweeney campaign that lit up the
internet.
That outrage wasn't a mistake,it was strategy.
They knew it would rile peopleup and they braced for it and
they cashed in on it.
Even now, the second week ofSeptember on Muckrack I'm
looking at the articles 20,000articles covered this
controversy in just one month.
This is the advantage also ofbeing a brand.
(13:51):
Unlike the raging Phillies fanor a US Open CEO, american Eagle
didn't have to face the centerof the fire as a person.
It's just a logo.
It's just a brand.
A logo doesn't cry or feelshame.
It monetizes.
That's blowback.
Controversy is currency.
Here's the bigger picture.
This is why I think apologieshave changed dramatically.
(14:13):
A couple weeks ago, I did aninterview with Eleanor Hawkins.
She's the editor behind Axios,is the communicator.
If you work in communications,I highly recommend you subscribe
to it.
Eleanor is wonderful.
She covers everything in comms.
She wrote a story about the ageof the public apology is over
and her argument is that theevidence is everywhere.
And she talked about AmericanEagle, the woman's dating app T
(14:36):
didn't apologize when user dataleaked.
The crowd strike when itgrounded the airlines.
This was what two years ago andI was stuck in the middle of it
.
They left out the oh sorry, andat that time it didn't work.
But now you can get away withit.
Look at Astronomer with thekiss cam.
They didn't apologize.
They handed over a bucket loadof money to Ryan Reynolds.
So I told Eleanor in thatarticle, quote People are simply
(14:59):
tired of the outrage cycles andcancellation campaigns.
The public is splitting becausethey don't want to jump on
someone else's grievancebandwagon.
So the translation an apologyisn't guaranteed to calm the
storm.
Sometimes it makes it worse.
So leaders are testing silence,defiance and private outreach
instead.
That's what I was telling herin this interview and that's
honestly what I'm telling a lotof my clients as well.
(15:20):
We don't have to rush toapologize.
I have a client right nowdealing with to do that viral
apology video and I said no, no,no, no, no, no, no, no.
That's just going to make itworse.
We're going to ride it out andwe're going to do something
different over here.
So here's the September lessonand what this month of outrage
(15:42):
teaches us that backlash isvalues driven.
It's real people reacting whensomeone crosses a moral line.
That's why a woman leapt overseats and chased a baseball dad.
But blowback is strategic.
That baseball dad knew thatthat woman was going to get
blowback.
That's what helped him reel inhis anger.
What is more triggering thansomeone coming to attack you in
(16:03):
front of your child?
But that dad braced for not hisblowback, her blowback.
That's why it was smart.
Blowback.
Is that outrage sometimesmanufactured, designed to drive
clicks and shares and brandawareness.
And here's the kicker you canspot character in how people
respond to backlash.
Do they apologize, defend, deny?
That's revealing.
But with blowback the reactionis already scripted.
(16:25):
The outrage was factored intothe budget.
So next time you see backlashsplashed across the headline,
stop and ask are we witnessing avalues clash or watching
someone's playbook unfold,because one tells you who people
really are and the other tellsyou how well they know the game.
That's all for this week on thepodcast.
If you want to see a little bitmore of a dive on this.
(16:45):
You can just follow me on theSubstack app or you can join the
membership, where I havemonthly trainings and lives
where we break it all down inthe vault.
In other words, what's said inthe vault stays in the vault.
That's all for this week.
Thanks for listening.
Bye for now.
If outrage had a season, it would be late
summer 2025.
Tennis matches, baseball games,a Diane Sawyer interview.
Honestly, I didn't realizeDiane Sawyer was still working
at ABC News and that jeans adit's back.
All of it has been caught inthe churn and every headline, it
seems, carries the same wordbacklash.
(00:20):
But let's get somethingstraight.
My opinion, backlash andblowback aren't the same thing.
Let me tell you what I toldpeople on stage last week at a
keynote in Columbus, ohio.
There is a difference and itmakes a big difference to news
coverage and reputation.
It's the week of September 8th2025, a week that a crisis
manager like myself gets herselforganized because I'm bracing
(00:43):
for the hit.
September is the time where wesee a lot of stories that cause
a lot of reputational damagebecause they've been planned.
Late summer is when we see alot of viral stories.
There's a newsy overlap betweenviral stories that take off in
the summer.
Think Astronomer, americanEagle.
Taylor Swift appears on apodcast and that podcast
(01:05):
explodes and then she's engaged.
Oh my gosh, double gasp.
That time of year allowed for astory like that to overtake the
news cycle and also the socialmedia cycle.
But let's look at the week inbacklash First, did you see me
on the Today Show last week?
News (01:23):
Dr Beryl trying to win back its loyal base by adding a
taste of Southern comfort backto the menu.
Molly McPherson (01:29):
And when the public rises up around a
cultural idea or an identitylike Cracker Barrel, it could
have a dramatic effect on theprofits.
What you don't watch morningnews anymore.
Sadly it's going down, but theydid a great story about Cracker
Barrel.
They asked me late in the dayto record a piece that would air
(01:49):
in a package the next morning.
Even if you watched it or not,what you didn't hear was my best
soundbite where I explain thatbacklash is values-driven and
blowback is more strategic, andknowing the difference is the
only way to understand whatyou're actually watching.
Let's look at stories from thispast week.
Case one the Phillies ballsnatcher.
I know you saw the viral video.
(02:12):
It was Marlins versus thePhillies.
The baseball drops right infront of a female Phillies fan
wearing a Phillies jersey.
She's next to, I believe, herhusband and it looks like a
younger adult son.
They're reaching down to getthe ball.
Meanwhile dad scurries over,picks up the ball and then runs
back and gives it to his son.
Then the woman jumps down,scurries to the dad and gives
(02:35):
him a piece of her mind.
Enter the villain.
The woman crawls over the seatand storms down to the dad,
insists that the ball belongs toher.
The dad puts his hands up, justputs it in the glove.
You took it from me.
You took it from me.
News (02:55):
You took it from me.
You took it from me.
Molly McPherson (02:59):
She gets booed and then she flips off the crowd
so dangerous.
I think what we have here is acase of a dad who understands
baseball culture and a woman whoclearly does not.
Now I saw this viral clip on aweekend trip with three of my
kids.
We went to Wrigley to visit mydaughter, kate, who secured us
(03:20):
with awesome seats.
She's in her first year of ajob in sales in the
developmental sales program.
We had an amazing day atWrigley.
It was Cubs versus Nats.
We thought for sure the Cubswould beat the Nats.
Did not happen and, as a sidenote, jeff Garland from Curb
your Enthusiasm threw out theopening pitch, which was really
curious because he didn't throwit and I had said I posted this
(03:41):
to Instagram.
I was asking my kids like, isthis a bit Like?
What is he doing?
Immediately we all said likehey, wasn't he canceled?
And then we had to figure outwhy Jeff Garland was canceled.
But he didn't want to throw theball, so he did this kind of
bit where he just tosses it likehe walks up to home plate.
It was odd, it was a curiousmove, but anyway, while that was
happening, we were watching theviral clip about what happened
(04:02):
at the Phillies game in Miamiand there was something about
that video.
I couldn't hear the sound, butthere was something in the
nonverbals that I saw that kindof stood out, and so I had to
ask my son.
I'm like, well, wait a minute,here I see something.
And we discussed the rules.
Anybody's game, you know.
When a ball goes into thestands, it's anybody's ball.
And the other unwritten rule,like there's an unwritten rule
(04:24):
in baseball, when a baseballgoes in the stands, anybody can
grab it.
And then the other unwrittenrule if the ball is anywhere
near a kid or an adult gets it.
You kind of give the ball tothe kid.
I will say this from thebeginning the woman was wrong.
There was no doubt she waswrong.
The dad great move to hand thatball back to the kid.
Why that event was amplifiedmore, don't get me wrong.
The dad great move to hand thatball back to the kid.
(04:45):
Why that event was amplifiedmore, don't get me wrong.
This woman was wrong, but Iunderstand what ticked her off.
First of all, the ball comes in.
They're clearly going for it.
So she has an expectation thatshe's getting that ball.
He also knew baseball rulesthat he was allowed to snatch
the ball for his son.
Of course he snatched the ball.
(05:05):
When emotion hijacks yourrational thinking, it hijacked
the woman, there's no doubtabout it.
It hijacked the dad.
He saw a ball.
He's like I'm getting that ball.
But then the dad calmed himselfand this is where I give him
tremendous props.
He calmed himself instead ofgetting overly reactive, because
we know there's plenty ofbaseball dad self for the sake
(05:26):
of his son and people, parentswho control their emotions for
the sake of their kids those arethe people who deserve kudos,
in my opinion.
But that woman, when she walkedback and she gave everyone the
finger, I thought this woman hasnot been in enough ballparks.
She does not know what she'sdoing.
The outrage.
So that's where I ran to mymedia partner, muckrack.
(05:46):
I had to scour all the articlesout there.
I had to watch the video spreadand see the feedback comment
sections.
They exploded.
Strangers online startedsleuthing to figure out who she
was and what I find fascinating.
People still don't know who sheis and I have to give credit
here, I actually don't knowonline because I was looking at
Muckrak.
I don't know if she's beenouted yet.
(06:07):
Honestly, maybe by the time ofthis recording.
She will have been outed.
But I like news outlets ifthey're not outing people,
because personally I don't likevigilantism, I really don't.
This woman got beat up enough.
She got it in the stadium andshe got it in the ballpark and
she got it through viral footage.
I don't love outing this womanbecause her life will be just
(06:28):
overrun and destroyed because ofan emotional moment, and people
need to understand when theemotion takes over.
It's what you do with it.
Now this dad has been doing themedia rounds Immediately.
He spoke with NBC 10 inPhiladelphia and explained that
he was attending the game withhis wife, daughter and son to
mark the birthday.
He told the outlet quote wewere just trying to make this
week about him.
I felt like super dad, puttingthat ball in his glove and
(06:50):
giving him a hug.
I wouldn't be surprised if Drewworks in communication media or
he's just a smart guy.
He knows how to put together areally good soundbite.
He explained that he's still indisbelief that she walked down
there like that, so framing heras crazy.
He instead wanted to focus moreon just trying to set an
example of how to de-escalate asituation in front of my son.
(07:13):
I gotta hand it to Drew.
That's a great quote and in thevideo altercation the woman you
could hear her say that wasours, so you know where the
outrage came from.
Day to day she's probably adecent person, but in that
moment she wanted that ball.
Now his last line left a mark.
He says, quote I hope that ballmeans a lot to her.
News (07:34):
Drew passed the viral test .
Molly McPherson (07:36):
Everybody thinks that he is a hero.
Kudos to the Marlins.
They went down immediately,gave him a gift bag, even though
he's a Phillies fan.
Then, behind the scenes, we seefootage of Dave Dombrowski.
He's the president of baseballoperations and someone who I
spoke to in line at Boston LoganAirport when he was headed down
for spring training and I washeaded to Florida for something
else.
Then Harrison Bader, the playerwho made the home run, gave him
(07:59):
a signed bat, and other peopletried to profit off of it as
well.
Marcus Limonis he was the starof the Prophet.
He offered the kid and hisfamily a trip to the World
Series.
Oh, and he's throwing in an RVas well, because he's the CEO of
Camping World.
You're going to see a lot ofthat happening, but these viral
moments are what the news livesfor.
(08:20):
It's what social media livesfor.
It's what social media livesfor.
They love it because it tapsinto outrage, and outrage is
backlash, just like whathappened with case two, the hat
grab.
It's another adult sports fansnatching a souvenir from a kid.
We're back in New York now.
A polis tennis star wins thematch at the US Open.
(08:41):
A kid we're back in New Yorknow A polis tennis star wins the
match at the US Open, tries togive a signed hat to a boy in
the crowd.
Enter the villain.
Before the kid can reach out,bam CEO snatches it from him.
The video blows up.
The outrage was swift.
The CEO eventually foldedbecause everybody had to figure
out who this guy was.
It's a viral moment.
(09:02):
Late August they're going tofind out who he is.
He sends the hat back and heapologizes publicly and calling
it quote extremely poor judgmentand a painful but necessary
lesson in humility.
That was a good call becausethat guy's business was
struggling.
Plus, there was another PolishCEO who runs a very similar
(09:23):
business who was attacked, whosebusiness was attacked online.
This business owner told theNew York Times that he had a
deluge of phone calls that wereso intense he couldn't cope and
his Google ratings cratered.
This backlash can cause serious, serious problems.
That's why this CEO writing anapology was smart.
He needed to do that.
(09:43):
He said quote I'm an honestentrepreneur who's been building
his image for so many years andin two days it was crushed to
dust.
That's a great quote.
He was humble, he was showinghumility.
That was a good move.
Again, it's that emotional,intensive moment.
You see a lot of it happeningat sports where a person many
times souvenir hunters or justpeople feel like they're owed
(10:06):
something and they want it.
But backlash works whereaccountability is missing.
You either own it or you doubledown and say nothing.
The Polish CEO fan he chose theformer because the public
reaction made the other choicelook smaller and meaner.
Here's another quick case ofbacklash that really kind of
(10:28):
wasn't, but it was in the story.
I was reading a headline thismorning, actually the day before
this recording about BruceWillis and Demi Moore, case
three, and this one is not wellknown and didn't go as viral.
But I went back to Muckrack tolook for the articles to see the
point of view.
It was an interview with ABCNews with Diane Sawyer
interviewing Emma Hemming Willis.
(10:50):
That is Bruce Willis's wife.
She's much younger, she's aformer model and they have young
kids.
But of course more people arefamiliar with Bruce Willis's
first wife, demi Moore.
Demi Moore also did aninterview with Oprah.
There's a lot of stories outthere about Bruce Willis's
declining health and these aregood stories because they're
really shining a light on hishealth.
(11:11):
So clearly they have publiciststrying to keep this story in
the news and it's understandableand there's a value attached to
it, because Bruce Willis issuffering from a progressive
disease called frontotemporaldementia.
It's a brain disorder.
They're giving a lot ofpublicity to this disorder and
that can always help.
(11:31):
And that's what things that shementioned was the backlash,
because people were judging herfor putting Bruce Willis in a
home to care for him as opposedto being home with her and the
young kids.
One of the quotes that she saidduring the interview was that
(11:53):
Willis was in great healthphysically but his brain is
failing him.
That's just a great quote.
I like it because it's goodframing.
And she mentioned that there wasa lot of intense backlash on
the internet judging her forputting him in a home.
They used backlash quite nimblyby using blowback as a means to
(12:16):
explain why he's in a home.
Backlash is when peopleemotionally react to something,
but planning for blowback can bequite strategic, which is what
I think this story with DianeSawyer and also Demi Moore
speaking with Oprah.
They use it quite well all ofit, and it's for the greater
good.
The same blueprint is therewith American Eagle.
(12:38):
Now I've talked about AmericanEagle at length.
I did a CNN hit a couple weeksago.
That story ran for days.
News (12:47):
And we're joined now by crisis and reputation strategist
Molly McPherson.
All right, Molly, you, in aTikTok response to the ad, say
everything is choreographed fora reason.
So help us understand the bigquestion.
Do you think American Eagleexpected a big reaction?
Molly McPherson (13:08):
Absolutely.
This is the modern formula foroutrage marketing.
You spark debate, you driveengagement, you ride the wave
and then, when the dust settles,american Eagle gets the clicks,
the coverage and also the cash.
Again, it happened in August,but it was strategic.
American Eagle knew that theywere going to get blowback.
(13:29):
They were prepared for theblowback.
They rolled out the SidneySweeney campaign that lit up the
internet.
That outrage wasn't a mistake,it was strategy.
They knew it would rile peopleup and they braced for it and
they cashed in on it.
Even now, the second week ofSeptember on Muckrack I'm
looking at the articles 20,000articles covered this
controversy in just one month.
This is the advantage also ofbeing a brand.
(13:51):
Unlike the raging Phillies fanor a US Open CEO, american Eagle
didn't have to face the centerof the fire as a person.
It's just a logo.
It's just a brand.
A logo doesn't cry or feelshame.
It monetizes.
That's blowback.
Controversy is currency.
Here's the bigger picture.
This is why I think apologieshave changed dramatically.
(14:13):
A couple weeks ago, I did aninterview with Eleanor Hawkins.
She's the editor behind Axios,is the communicator.
If you work in communications,I highly recommend you subscribe
to it.
Eleanor is wonderful.
She covers everything in comms.
She wrote a story about the ageof the public apology is over
and her argument is that theevidence is everywhere.
And she talked about AmericanEagle, the woman's dating app T
(14:36):
didn't apologize when user dataleaked.
The crowd strike when itgrounded the airlines.
This was what two years ago andI was stuck in the middle of it
.
They left out the oh sorry, andat that time it didn't work.
But now you can get away withit.
Look at Astronomer with thekiss cam.
They didn't apologize.
They handed over a bucket loadof money to Ryan Reynolds.
So I told Eleanor in thatarticle, quote People are simply
(14:59):
tired of the outrage cycles andcancellation campaigns.
The public is splitting becausethey don't want to jump on
someone else's grievancebandwagon.
So the translation an apologyisn't guaranteed to calm the
storm.
Sometimes it makes it worse.
So leaders are testing silence,defiance and private outreach
instead.
That's what I was telling herin this interview and that's
honestly what I'm telling a lotof my clients as well.
(15:20):
We don't have to rush toapologize.
I have a client right nowdealing with to do that viral
apology video and I said no, no,no, no, no, no, no, no.
That's just going to make itworse.
We're going to ride it out andwe're going to do something
different over here.
So here's the September lessonand what this month of outrage
(15:42):
teaches us that backlash isvalues driven.
It's real people reacting whensomeone crosses a moral line.
That's why a woman leapt overseats and chased a baseball dad.
But blowback is strategic.
That baseball dad knew thatthat woman was going to get
blowback.
That's what helped him reel inhis anger.
What is more triggering thansomeone coming to attack you in
(16:03):
front of your child?
But that dad braced for not hisblowback, her blowback.
That's why it was smart.
Blowback.
Is that outrage sometimesmanufactured, designed to drive
clicks and shares and brandawareness.
And here's the kicker you canspot character in how people
respond to backlash.
Do they apologize, defend, deny?
That's revealing.
But with blowback the reactionis already scripted.
(16:25):
The outrage was factored intothe budget.
So next time you see backlashsplashed across the headline,
stop and ask are we witnessing avalues clash or watching
someone's playbook unfold,because one tells you who people
really are and the other tellsyou how well they know the game.
That's all for this week on thepodcast.
If you want to see a little bitmore of a dive on this.
(16:45):
You can just follow me on theSubstack app or you can join the
membership, where I havemonthly trainings and lives
where we break it all down inthe vault.
In other words, what's said inthe vault stays in the vault.
That's all for this week.
Thanks for listening.
Bye for now.
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