April 16, 2025 • 21 mins
A rocket full of high-profile women launched into space, but the real spectacle might’ve been the PR machine that sent it there. From Katy Perry floating with a daisy to Oprah crying on the ground, every moment of Blue Origin’s all-women flight felt like it was choreographed to go viral. It looked empowering on the surface, but the optics raised a bigger question: when the narrative feels off, who gets to push back—and how?
This episode is a smart, strategic walkthrough of how to correct the record without igniting a firestorm. Using a therapist-backed framework from relationship expert Dr. Abby Medcalf, this breakdown lays out the emotional and tactical roadmap to tell someone they’re wrong in a way they’ll actually hear. Because calling out the spin doesn’t have to burn everything down—if you know how to land the message.
What You'll Learn:
- The three-step framework for correcting someone without causing a blow-up
- Why even seasoned communicators get stuck defending bad stories
- How to separate honest feedback from ego-driven pushback
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Molly McPherson (00:00):
One, two, three take us space.
Gail?
Why?
Why this?
Why strap yourself into JeffBezos' giant metaphor of a
rocket for what clearly lookslike a high-gloss publicity
(00:22):
stunt?
What made you wake up onemorning and say you know what I
need?
I need a little space travelwith Katy Perry and a
billionaire's girlfriend.
No, this isn't shade, it isgenuine curiosity.
Okay, there's a lot of side eyehere.
Let's talk about this spaceflight, shall we?
(00:43):
Welcome to the PR Breakdown?
I'm your host, molly McPherson,and, for the record, I was not
invited into space, was it mybixie cut Not enough hair to
float dramatically in zerogravity.
Not enough influencer energy.
I can't sing.
(01:04):
I'm not going on tour.
Either way, this episode is amashup of strategy, psychology
and a touch of chaos.
In this episode I'm asking thequestion how do you tell someone
they're wrong without settingeverything on fire?
Recently I brought in friend ofthe podcast, dr Abby Medcalf.
(01:26):
She is a therapist, arelationship expert, who knows
how to make even the mostdefensive boss client you to.
Okay, I'm listening, and bringit to life.
I thought what better casestudy than the Blue Origin
(01:56):
all-women space flight, aka JeffBezos and his publicity machine
launching into space, brandingoptics, possibly
overcompensation.
But I'll walk you throughAbby's framework as we walk
through an imaginary, slightlycheeky but sincerely curious
(02:20):
conversation with Gayle King,after listening to her defend
this spaceflight.
Gayle King (02:29):
So what do you think when people say, oh, it's
frivolous.
Number one, they call it a ride, which I find very irritating
because they never say men wentfor a ride.
What do you say to people whothink that this was frivolous or
just a ride?
You know, I think the messagethat it sends is very, very
powerful.
And the people that say that,by the way, weren't they?
And I don't work for the origin, but I think I was one of these
people that go.
(02:49):
I don't know why we got to dothis.
Until you educate yourself andsee what is happening there, I
think you'll have a verydifferent perspective.
Molly McPherson (02:56):
Ask her really why she's defending it.
I think it's a lesson thatanyone can use, because, you
know me, I love offering lessonsto communicators, but also
people who communicate in life,because even the best
communicators can end updefending the indefensible when
the story gets muddled.
First, let's start out withsome facts.
(03:17):
When you go to Wikipedia now,under April 2025, blue Origin,
jeff Bezos he will be the personbehind launching its first
all-women crew to the edge ofspace.
The crew included LaurenSanchez, the mission organizer,
also philanthropist.
(03:38):
What Journalist, formerjournalist and, yes, jeff Bezos'
fiance.
Gayle King, cbs journalist, bffOprah she's turning 70 and
reaching for the stars.
There is Katy Perry, who is aoh gosh, wikipedia, my color pop
icon.
(03:58):
I call her a slightly washed upone.
She's going on tour more onthat later and her tickets are
having trouble selling.
But hey, nothing like launchinginto space to launch those
ticket sales.
Aisha Bowe she's an aerospaceengineer and the first Bahamian
woman now in space.
Amanda Nguyen she's a civilrights activist and scientist
(04:20):
and when she tells a story aboutwhy she wanted to take this
trip into space, she speaksabout justice.
She's a victim of sexualviolence.
It's a very sad story.
In an interview she said thatshe always wanted to be an
astronaut, but fighting forjustice for women who have been
abused came first, so that'svery noble.
(04:41):
And then also Carrie Ann Flynn,who's a film producer.
Jeff Bezos is no dummy.
He's not just going to send upa crew of online influencers and
people who could get himpublicity.
That's a powerful lineup.
There were real firsts here andthere was real inspiration, but
it was also a textbook PRformation.
(05:03):
Jeff hit all the demo boxesscience, activism, celebrity
media, his girlfriend.
He wanted to make it historic.
He wanted to get the Wikipediaannotation.
He wanted to make history, buthe also wanted it to trend on
TikTok Instagram.
(05:23):
But he also wanted it to trendon TikTok Instagram and in the
news cycle.
And then there was the rocketwhich, I'm sorry, looks like it
was designed in a frat house intheir marketing meeting.
The symbolism is not subtle.
Let's just say I know this is anaudio podcast, but just Google
it if you haven't seen it.
And did I watch the broadcaston YouTube.
(05:44):
But if you haven't seen it anddid I watch the broadcast on
YouTube the Blue Originbroadcast getting ready to
launch, I did.
Katy Perry, okay.
So her being interviewed by anall-female broadcast crew acting
like this is the first missioninto space, honestly, and all it
is to me is one big promotionalvideo.
That's all it looks like.
(06:06):
She sang the song what aWonderful World midair.
She was also holding a daisyfor her daughter, daisy.
In an interview before launchshe talked about how important
this mission was.
I don't think her husband,orlando Bloom, was there.
Is he her husband or justboyfriend?
They have a daughter, daisy.
She just talked about howimportant it was to Daisy and
(06:26):
went on and on and on about howimportant it was.
Also, her mom, when she cameoff the flight, she said in the
interview.
She said oh, you know, this isso important to my mom because
the person interviewer said andyour mom was here and she's like
I don't know where she is, like, is that like?
She came off and like launchedinto her mother's arm.
No, she came off, kissed theground, but she also launched
(06:50):
the set list to her upcomingtour.
I think that just ends theargument right there.
She launched and then launched.
It wasn't about her daughter,it wasn't about space
exploration, it certainly wasn'tabout her mother.
It was publicity.
And Lauren Sanchez, oh my gosh.
(07:11):
So she in the broadcast wasbringing up one of the color
commentators up in herhelicopter because she's a
helicopter pilot, her father wasa pilot and she's wearing
everything is tight.
With Lauren Sanchez, everythingis tight and her hair is
flowing everywhere.
Any woman watching this footageand really the whole footage of
(07:31):
the flight all you want is alittle tie to put it back, to
put the hair back, becausethere's hair everywhere.
Jeff Bezos needs a big rocketship to feel like a man.
Lauren Sanchez needs tightclothes and her hair and her
lips and it is so, so, sodifficult to take her seriously.
(07:52):
This is not to knock her looksor her beauty or anything like
that.
It's the juxtaposition of bothwhen the theatrics, the
choreographic nature to it, thewardrobe as well.
But then there's Gayle King andGayle honestly she doesn't want
to be up there.
She doesn't want to do this.
(08:12):
Cbs struggling, massivecutbacks Well at all, the
morning shows.
They're all cutting back.
She doesn't want to do it.
But she in the interviewstalked about her kitchen cabinet
.
Three people I asked about thisspace exploration Her daughter,
her son and then, of course,oprah.
Now we could not have a BlueOrigins launch without Oprah
(08:36):
somewhere in the mix.
She was definitely there onland crying.
They had footage of Oprahcrying.
I know there's some people outthere, women out there, who are
defending this and saying thisis important for women and
they're hating on all the otherwomen who are hating on this
flight.
And I'm a commentator oncalling PR campaigns when I see
it, and let's just be honest,you cannot have an argument
(09:06):
about how important this flightwas to women without mentioning
that Katy Perry launched her setlist during the flight.
Okay, I stand by that.
This is the hill I will die on.
This is the spaceship I will gointo space on.
It was all for publicity, forblue origins.
(09:30):
Jeff Bezos who else happens tobe in the news nowadays?
Musk who else is a billionairewho has a fixation with space?
Musk, this was all about Bezos,and if you want to come at me,
that's fine.
I respect you.
I don't disrespect the argumenttowards women at all.
(09:52):
I respect it, but this is notthe argument about respecting
women.
Hey, if there's one hair tie inspace, maybe, maybe, but all
the hair flying, no.
In this episode, I want to walkyou through Dr Abby's three
steps for how we can walkthrough conflict when you know
(10:18):
they're wrong.
This could be a boss.
This could be a colleague.
This could be a situation thatI had to give one of my
daughters yesterday.
This could be a partner,someone in your life.
This could be a parent, a kid,whatever it is.
Whomever you need to tell thatthey're wrong.
These are three steps that, wow, they work.
(10:39):
These are three steps that, wow, they work.
Dr Abby delivered this advice tome just yesterday in a live
interview on my Substack.
You can find me at MollyMcPherson on Substack.
I often do lives on there.
This was my first interview,which was a whole lot of fun.
I posted it to my Substack soyou can watch the entire
interview with Dr Abby.
(10:59):
She's going to be coming backand speaking in my members-only
section in the future becauseeveryone with Dr Abby.
She's going to be coming backand speaking in my members-only
section in the future becauseeveryone loves Dr Abby.
I'm going to walk through thethree steps that she provided,
but I'm going to use it in thepremise of me having a
conversation with Gayle Kingabout why this probably wasn't
(11:21):
the best mission to be a part of, or one that you at least
wanted to defend.
She could still do it and be apart of it, but defending it.
That's where I have the issuewith Gail on this.
Telling someone that they'rewrong often feels like war,
because truth rarely landssoftly, even when said kindly.
There is a cost ofdefensiveness, whether it's in
(11:43):
leadership or politics and PRcrisis management.
Take a listen to Dr Abbeyexplain why telling someone
they're wrong feels like anattack.
I always want to tell people isthat being attacked is in the
eye of the beholder.
We feel attacked when we feellike we're not valued, and we
feel like we're not valued whenwe think you disagree with us.
(12:07):
If this is an interview withyour boss, you are not going to
do it in their office, with themsitting at the desk, with the
desk in front of them.
The barrier then you.
That's the normal leadershipsubordinate setup.
You want to be someplace else,walking down a hall outside.
You won't want to have thisconversation in a place where
(12:29):
you typically have arguments.
So Dr Abbey says you want toprep.
She said it's like painting aroom.
You don't just buy paints andbrushes and start painting.
No, the prep of a room takes alot of work.
You are buying the paint andyou're buying the paintbrushes,
but you're also buying thepainter's tape and you're taping
it off.
You also have to pick up thecolor.
Painting is the easier part.
(12:50):
You just slap on the paint andgo from there.
The same with this conversationyou have to prep it.
Let's say I meet Gayle King andshe wants to talk to me about
the public reaction to the BlueOrigin flight.
She received a lot hires me.
It doesn't mean everything Isay to my client about their
(13:23):
crisis management is going to bewell-received.
Most often it's not for thereason that people are defensive
With Gail.
We're going to be walking downthe street, perhaps lattes in
hands, comfortable shoes, zeromedia presence, no Oprah, no
Oprah, just me and Gail.
We're having a conversation.
Okay, Gail, you wanted to talkabout the Blue Origin flight.
(13:44):
This won't be a critique, atleast not in the internet sense.
I mean, I'm not going to comeat you, but let's talk about the
story.
I want to understand it becauseI respect you.
I want us both to walk awayfrom this feeling clear.
I'm genuinely curious aboutwhat you got out of it, but I'm
curious what you think on it.
There needs to be mutualrespect.
Then we move to step two, andthat's setting the intention.
(14:10):
Number two is to say out loudhey, is this a good time to talk
to you about X, right?
And then wait for an answer yesor no?
They'll say yes or no.
My goal is to find a solutiontogether that really fits for
both of us.
I value you.
I want you to feel that for me.
It will only be to me a goodsolution if we're both on the
(14:33):
same page about it.
You know what, gail?
My goal here is to figure thisout together.
I want to understand whereyou're coming from and then I'll
share where things didn't quiteland for me, which might
translate into the publicsentiment, which is resoundingly
negative.
Because, gail, I value you.
I know you don't put your nameon fluff, but I also know you're
(14:56):
up for anything, so I canabsolutely see why you landed in
space.
So I can absolutely see why youlanded in space.
I value you and I want to hearwhat brought you there.
What an opportunity.
Tell me about it.
It's all about the process.
What I'll do like, let's sayI've got a CEO I'm talking to,
right, and he let's say it's ahe and he is up in it, okay, and
(15:17):
I'll just stop and I'll sayscale one to six right now.
How are you doing so?
Always use Got one to three andyou got four, five, six, so I
know where you are.
So I'll say six You're likesuper anxious about what's going
on right now.
One is you feel really calm andcollected about this?
Six is you feel like yourmessage was really heard.
(15:38):
People really get what you'resaying?
Six you feel really confidentabout what you're saying?
One you're not so sure.
Right, I just find out wherethey are.
But what you're doing is you'regetting people out of the past
and out of the future and intothe present, because the present
is where they could actuallythink clearly.
Again, they can't think clearlywhen they're in fight, flight
(15:59):
or freeze, when they're in theiramygdala or people pleasing you
know we call it fawning whenthey're in that you can't help
them.
We want to ask questions, bringthe conversation into the
present and interrupt the egospin cycle.
When people are on thedefensive, it's ego because
they're afraid.
It's fear, they're worriedabout their standing, whether
(16:21):
it's in a job, whether it's inthe relationship, they're
worried.
That's when you start askingthem the questions.
So, gail, let me ask you on ascale of one to six six being
incredible how was the launch?
She'd likely say six.
Then my next question would beokay, same scale when are you at
with how the launch wasreceived?
How do you think peoplereceived it?
(16:42):
Then she'll give a number.
I'm thinking Gail would saythree, when really she knows
it's probably somewhere betweenone and two.
Gail, what do you want peopleto take from it?
When you floated up there andKaty Perry was holding that
daisy, what was that momentsupposed to mean?
(17:02):
Maybe then Gail's going to tellme I wanted young girls to see
that age doesn't define ambition, that joy matters.
I could say wow, gail, I lovethat.
But here's where I got stuck.
From the outside, people mayhave looked at this as a Jeff
Bezos project.
(17:22):
It felt a little curated.
Yes, you have engineers andscientists, and then Katy Perry
like doing zero gravity spinsand we saw the made for TikTok
moments singing, launching theset list.
To a lot of people it lookedlike a billionaire's idea of a
(17:43):
branded empowerment launch LessNASA, more Netflix, especially
considering that so many peopleare hurting right now, so many
people are losing their jobs, somany people are worried about
the economy.
How much is it to go into space?
I read somewhere well, Iwouldn't say that Now I'm being
sarcastic and now I'm beingMolly on the podcast.
(18:04):
This is my conversation withGail Gail.
I read somewhere some peoplewere saying that it costs like
$500,000 to launch one person inthat rocket ship.
You have to pay $150,000deposit, which I assume none of
you paid.
Right, you know, with a numberlike that, with people hurting,
while a presidency might likelybe launching us towards a
(18:25):
recession or a depression, doyou see why people might feel it
was a little off?
Then she might say well, yes,then Gail would give her spin.
Now Gail the journalist wouldprobably come in and start
thinking a little more clearlyon this.
Then I would ask Gail, whatwould you say to people who saw
it as a publicity move and notprogress?
Here's what Dr Abbey says is tolet them tell you what's wrong.
(18:50):
You have to remember that youhave to connect to correct,
which means you have to havesome connection first to correct
someone.
We don't want to change thingsfor someone we think is mad at
us or doesn't like us ordisagrees with us.
They know.
You just need to get thempresent enough to say it.
(19:11):
Gail needs to be in a safeenough space where she can
recognize why the backlash wasthere.
She can admit it because youknow she's thinking this.
Tom Cruise, daniel Caffey heknows Colonel Jessup Jack
Nicholson wants to say that heordered the code red.
He wants to say it.
I'm Daniel Caffey, gayle Kingis Colonel Jessup.
(19:34):
Gayle will say something likethis I get it, I really do.
Then she'll add but themessages I got from the girls
afterward that made it worth it.
Was it packaging?
Was it polished?
Sure, but the impact, that wasreal.
You're going to get her tounderstand it from both sides.
It's not a takedown of a person,it's just finding that safe
(19:56):
space right in the middle.
Gail is absolutely going tounderstand that it was a PR
stunt, but it was also inspiringfor a lot of women and girls.
I don't know who they are, butthere are plenty there.
Both can be true.
It's never about tellingsomeone that they're wrong for
the sake of telling them thatthey're wrong so you can be
(20:17):
right.
It's about offering feedback,create space, set intention and
ask questions that bring theminto the moment, because the
goal isn't to win, it's toconnect, and sometimes the
hardest thing isn't saying thetruth, it's saying connect.
And sometimes the hardest thingisn't saying the truth, it's
saying it to someone you admireor someone you care about, or
someone you love, without makingthem feel like you're launching
(20:39):
a missile, even if the wholething kind of looked like one.
That's all for this week.
Thanks so much for listening tothis episode of the podcast.
Remember you can follow me inmy new content hub, substack.
You can find me atmollymcphersonprbreakdownmedia.
That will bring you to mySubstack publication.
(21:02):
Thanks so much for listening.
Bye for now.
One, two, three take us space.
Gail?
Why?
Why this?
Why strap yourself into JeffBezos' giant metaphor of a
rocket for what clearly lookslike a high-gloss publicity
(00:22):
stunt?
What made you wake up onemorning and say you know what I
need?
I need a little space travelwith Katy Perry and a
billionaire's girlfriend.
No, this isn't shade, it isgenuine curiosity.
Okay, there's a lot of side eyehere.
Let's talk about this spaceflight, shall we?
(00:43):
Welcome to the PR Breakdown?
I'm your host, molly McPherson,and, for the record, I was not
invited into space, was it mybixie cut Not enough hair to
float dramatically in zerogravity.
Not enough influencer energy.
I can't sing.
(01:04):
I'm not going on tour.
Either way, this episode is amashup of strategy, psychology
and a touch of chaos.
In this episode I'm asking thequestion how do you tell someone
they're wrong without settingeverything on fire?
Recently I brought in friend ofthe podcast, dr Abby Medcalf.
(01:26):
She is a therapist, arelationship expert, who knows
how to make even the mostdefensive boss client you to.
Okay, I'm listening, and bringit to life.
I thought what better casestudy than the Blue Origin
(01:56):
all-women space flight, aka JeffBezos and his publicity machine
launching into space, brandingoptics, possibly
overcompensation.
But I'll walk you throughAbby's framework as we walk
through an imaginary, slightlycheeky but sincerely curious
(02:20):
conversation with Gayle King,after listening to her defend
this spaceflight.
Gayle King (02:29):
So what do you think when people say, oh, it's
frivolous.
Number one, they call it a ride, which I find very irritating
because they never say men wentfor a ride.
What do you say to people whothink that this was frivolous or
just a ride?
You know, I think the messagethat it sends is very, very
powerful.
And the people that say that,by the way, weren't they?
And I don't work for the origin, but I think I was one of these
people that go.
(02:49):
I don't know why we got to dothis.
Until you educate yourself andsee what is happening there, I
think you'll have a verydifferent perspective.
Molly McPherson (02:56):
Ask her really why she's defending it.
I think it's a lesson thatanyone can use, because, you
know me, I love offering lessonsto communicators, but also
people who communicate in life,because even the best
communicators can end updefending the indefensible when
the story gets muddled.
First, let's start out withsome facts.
(03:17):
When you go to Wikipedia now,under April 2025, blue Origin,
jeff Bezos he will be the personbehind launching its first
all-women crew to the edge ofspace.
The crew included LaurenSanchez, the mission organizer,
also philanthropist.
(03:38):
What Journalist, formerjournalist and, yes, jeff Bezos'
fiance.
Gayle King, cbs journalist, bffOprah she's turning 70 and
reaching for the stars.
There is Katy Perry, who is aoh gosh, wikipedia, my color pop
icon.
(03:58):
I call her a slightly washed upone.
She's going on tour more onthat later and her tickets are
having trouble selling.
But hey, nothing like launchinginto space to launch those
ticket sales.
Aisha Bowe she's an aerospaceengineer and the first Bahamian
woman now in space.
Amanda Nguyen she's a civilrights activist and scientist
(04:20):
and when she tells a story aboutwhy she wanted to take this
trip into space, she speaksabout justice.
She's a victim of sexualviolence.
It's a very sad story.
In an interview she said thatshe always wanted to be an
astronaut, but fighting forjustice for women who have been
abused came first, so that'svery noble.
(04:41):
And then also Carrie Ann Flynn,who's a film producer.
Jeff Bezos is no dummy.
He's not just going to send upa crew of online influencers and
people who could get himpublicity.
That's a powerful lineup.
There were real firsts here andthere was real inspiration, but
it was also a textbook PRformation.
(05:03):
Jeff hit all the demo boxesscience, activism, celebrity
media, his girlfriend.
He wanted to make it historic.
He wanted to get the Wikipediaannotation.
He wanted to make history, buthe also wanted it to trend on
TikTok Instagram.
(05:23):
But he also wanted it to trendon TikTok Instagram and in the
news cycle.
And then there was the rocketwhich, I'm sorry, looks like it
was designed in a frat house intheir marketing meeting.
The symbolism is not subtle.
Let's just say I know this is anaudio podcast, but just Google
it if you haven't seen it.
And did I watch the broadcaston YouTube.
(05:44):
But if you haven't seen it anddid I watch the broadcast on
YouTube the Blue Originbroadcast getting ready to
launch, I did.
Katy Perry, okay.
So her being interviewed by anall-female broadcast crew acting
like this is the first missioninto space, honestly, and all it
is to me is one big promotionalvideo.
That's all it looks like.
(06:06):
She sang the song what aWonderful World midair.
She was also holding a daisyfor her daughter, daisy.
In an interview before launchshe talked about how important
this mission was.
I don't think her husband,orlando Bloom, was there.
Is he her husband or justboyfriend?
They have a daughter, daisy.
She just talked about howimportant it was to Daisy and
(06:26):
went on and on and on about howimportant it was.
Also, her mom, when she cameoff the flight, she said in the
interview.
She said oh, you know, this isso important to my mom because
the person interviewer said andyour mom was here and she's like
I don't know where she is, like, is that like?
She came off and like launchedinto her mother's arm.
No, she came off, kissed theground, but she also launched
(06:50):
the set list to her upcomingtour.
I think that just ends theargument right there.
She launched and then launched.
It wasn't about her daughter,it wasn't about space
exploration, it certainly wasn'tabout her mother.
It was publicity.
And Lauren Sanchez, oh my gosh.
(07:11):
So she in the broadcast wasbringing up one of the color
commentators up in herhelicopter because she's a
helicopter pilot, her father wasa pilot and she's wearing
everything is tight.
With Lauren Sanchez, everythingis tight and her hair is
flowing everywhere.
Any woman watching this footageand really the whole footage of
(07:31):
the flight all you want is alittle tie to put it back, to
put the hair back, becausethere's hair everywhere.
Jeff Bezos needs a big rocketship to feel like a man.
Lauren Sanchez needs tightclothes and her hair and her
lips and it is so, so, sodifficult to take her seriously.
(07:52):
This is not to knock her looksor her beauty or anything like
that.
It's the juxtaposition of bothwhen the theatrics, the
choreographic nature to it, thewardrobe as well.
But then there's Gayle King andGayle honestly she doesn't want
to be up there.
She doesn't want to do this.
(08:12):
Cbs struggling, massivecutbacks Well at all, the
morning shows.
They're all cutting back.
She doesn't want to do it.
But she in the interviewstalked about her kitchen cabinet
.
Three people I asked about thisspace exploration Her daughter,
her son and then, of course,oprah.
Now we could not have a BlueOrigins launch without Oprah
(08:36):
somewhere in the mix.
She was definitely there onland crying.
They had footage of Oprahcrying.
I know there's some people outthere, women out there, who are
defending this and saying thisis important for women and
they're hating on all the otherwomen who are hating on this
flight.
And I'm a commentator oncalling PR campaigns when I see
it, and let's just be honest,you cannot have an argument
(09:06):
about how important this flightwas to women without mentioning
that Katy Perry launched her setlist during the flight.
Okay, I stand by that.
This is the hill I will die on.
This is the spaceship I will gointo space on.
It was all for publicity, forblue origins.
(09:30):
Jeff Bezos who else happens tobe in the news nowadays?
Musk who else is a billionairewho has a fixation with space?
Musk, this was all about Bezos,and if you want to come at me,
that's fine.
I respect you.
I don't disrespect the argumenttowards women at all.
(09:52):
I respect it, but this is notthe argument about respecting
women.
Hey, if there's one hair tie inspace, maybe, maybe, but all
the hair flying, no.
In this episode, I want to walkyou through Dr Abby's three
steps for how we can walkthrough conflict when you know
(10:18):
they're wrong.
This could be a boss.
This could be a colleague.
This could be a situation thatI had to give one of my
daughters yesterday.
This could be a partner,someone in your life.
This could be a parent, a kid,whatever it is.
Whomever you need to tell thatthey're wrong.
These are three steps that, wow, they work.
(10:39):
These are three steps that, wow, they work.
Dr Abby delivered this advice tome just yesterday in a live
interview on my Substack.
You can find me at MollyMcPherson on Substack.
I often do lives on there.
This was my first interview,which was a whole lot of fun.
I posted it to my Substack soyou can watch the entire
interview with Dr Abby.
(10:59):
She's going to be coming backand speaking in my members-only
section in the future becauseeveryone with Dr Abby.
She's going to be coming backand speaking in my members-only
section in the future becauseeveryone loves Dr Abby.
I'm going to walk through thethree steps that she provided,
but I'm going to use it in thepremise of me having a
conversation with Gayle Kingabout why this probably wasn't
(11:21):
the best mission to be a part of, or one that you at least
wanted to defend.
She could still do it and be apart of it, but defending it.
That's where I have the issuewith Gail on this.
Telling someone that they'rewrong often feels like war,
because truth rarely landssoftly, even when said kindly.
There is a cost ofdefensiveness, whether it's in
(11:43):
leadership or politics and PRcrisis management.
Take a listen to Dr Abbeyexplain why telling someone
they're wrong feels like anattack.
I always want to tell people isthat being attacked is in the
eye of the beholder.
We feel attacked when we feellike we're not valued, and we
feel like we're not valued whenwe think you disagree with us.
(12:07):
If this is an interview withyour boss, you are not going to
do it in their office, with themsitting at the desk, with the
desk in front of them.
The barrier then you.
That's the normal leadershipsubordinate setup.
You want to be someplace else,walking down a hall outside.
You won't want to have thisconversation in a place where
(12:29):
you typically have arguments.
So Dr Abbey says you want toprep.
She said it's like painting aroom.
You don't just buy paints andbrushes and start painting.
No, the prep of a room takes alot of work.
You are buying the paint andyou're buying the paintbrushes,
but you're also buying thepainter's tape and you're taping
it off.
You also have to pick up thecolor.
Painting is the easier part.
(12:50):
You just slap on the paint andgo from there.
The same with this conversationyou have to prep it.
Let's say I meet Gayle King andshe wants to talk to me about
the public reaction to the BlueOrigin flight.
She received a lot hires me.
It doesn't mean everything Isay to my client about their
(13:23):
crisis management is going to bewell-received.
Most often it's not for thereason that people are defensive
With Gail.
We're going to be walking downthe street, perhaps lattes in
hands, comfortable shoes, zeromedia presence, no Oprah, no
Oprah, just me and Gail.
We're having a conversation.
Okay, Gail, you wanted to talkabout the Blue Origin flight.
(13:44):
This won't be a critique, atleast not in the internet sense.
I mean, I'm not going to comeat you, but let's talk about the
story.
I want to understand it becauseI respect you.
I want us both to walk awayfrom this feeling clear.
I'm genuinely curious aboutwhat you got out of it, but I'm
curious what you think on it.
There needs to be mutualrespect.
Then we move to step two, andthat's setting the intention.
(14:10):
Number two is to say out loudhey, is this a good time to talk
to you about X, right?
And then wait for an answer yesor no?
They'll say yes or no.
My goal is to find a solutiontogether that really fits for
both of us.
I value you.
I want you to feel that for me.
It will only be to me a goodsolution if we're both on the
(14:33):
same page about it.
You know what, gail?
My goal here is to figure thisout together.
I want to understand whereyou're coming from and then I'll
share where things didn't quiteland for me, which might
translate into the publicsentiment, which is resoundingly
negative.
Because, gail, I value you.
I know you don't put your nameon fluff, but I also know you're
(14:56):
up for anything, so I canabsolutely see why you landed in
space.
So I can absolutely see why youlanded in space.
I value you and I want to hearwhat brought you there.
What an opportunity.
Tell me about it.
It's all about the process.
What I'll do like, let's sayI've got a CEO I'm talking to,
right, and he let's say it's ahe and he is up in it, okay, and
(15:17):
I'll just stop and I'll sayscale one to six right now.
How are you doing so?
Always use Got one to three andyou got four, five, six, so I
know where you are.
So I'll say six You're likesuper anxious about what's going
on right now.
One is you feel really calm andcollected about this?
Six is you feel like yourmessage was really heard.
(15:38):
People really get what you'resaying?
Six you feel really confidentabout what you're saying?
One you're not so sure.
Right, I just find out wherethey are.
But what you're doing is you'regetting people out of the past
and out of the future and intothe present, because the present
is where they could actuallythink clearly.
Again, they can't think clearlywhen they're in fight, flight
(15:59):
or freeze, when they're in theiramygdala or people pleasing you
know we call it fawning whenthey're in that you can't help
them.
We want to ask questions, bringthe conversation into the
present and interrupt the egospin cycle.
When people are on thedefensive, it's ego because
they're afraid.
It's fear, they're worriedabout their standing, whether
(16:21):
it's in a job, whether it's inthe relationship, they're
worried.
That's when you start askingthem the questions.
So, gail, let me ask you on ascale of one to six six being
incredible how was the launch?
She'd likely say six.
Then my next question would beokay, same scale when are you at
with how the launch wasreceived?
How do you think peoplereceived it?
(16:42):
Then she'll give a number.
I'm thinking Gail would saythree, when really she knows
it's probably somewhere betweenone and two.
Gail, what do you want peopleto take from it?
When you floated up there andKaty Perry was holding that
daisy, what was that momentsupposed to mean?
(17:02):
Maybe then Gail's going to tellme I wanted young girls to see
that age doesn't define ambition, that joy matters.
I could say wow, gail, I lovethat.
But here's where I got stuck.
From the outside, people mayhave looked at this as a Jeff
Bezos project.
(17:22):
It felt a little curated.
Yes, you have engineers andscientists, and then Katy Perry
like doing zero gravity spinsand we saw the made for TikTok
moments singing, launching theset list.
To a lot of people it lookedlike a billionaire's idea of a
(17:43):
branded empowerment launch LessNASA, more Netflix, especially
considering that so many peopleare hurting right now, so many
people are losing their jobs, somany people are worried about
the economy.
How much is it to go into space?
I read somewhere well, Iwouldn't say that Now I'm being
sarcastic and now I'm beingMolly on the podcast.
(18:04):
This is my conversation withGail Gail.
I read somewhere some peoplewere saying that it costs like
$500,000 to launch one person inthat rocket ship.
You have to pay $150,000deposit, which I assume none of
you paid.
Right, you know, with a numberlike that, with people hurting,
while a presidency might likelybe launching us towards a
(18:25):
recession or a depression, doyou see why people might feel it
was a little off?
Then she might say well, yes,then Gail would give her spin.
Now Gail the journalist wouldprobably come in and start
thinking a little more clearlyon this.
Then I would ask Gail, whatwould you say to people who saw
it as a publicity move and notprogress?
Here's what Dr Abbey says is tolet them tell you what's wrong.
(18:50):
You have to remember that youhave to connect to correct,
which means you have to havesome connection first to correct
someone.
We don't want to change thingsfor someone we think is mad at
us or doesn't like us ordisagrees with us.
They know.
You just need to get thempresent enough to say it.
(19:11):
Gail needs to be in a safeenough space where she can
recognize why the backlash wasthere.
She can admit it because youknow she's thinking this.
Tom Cruise, daniel Caffey heknows Colonel Jessup Jack
Nicholson wants to say that heordered the code red.
He wants to say it.
I'm Daniel Caffey, gayle Kingis Colonel Jessup.
(19:34):
Gayle will say something likethis I get it, I really do.
Then she'll add but themessages I got from the girls
afterward that made it worth it.
Was it packaging?
Was it polished?
Sure, but the impact, that wasreal.
You're going to get her tounderstand it from both sides.
It's not a takedown of a person,it's just finding that safe
(19:56):
space right in the middle.
Gail is absolutely going tounderstand that it was a PR
stunt, but it was also inspiringfor a lot of women and girls.
I don't know who they are, butthere are plenty there.
Both can be true.
It's never about tellingsomeone that they're wrong for
the sake of telling them thatthey're wrong so you can be
(20:17):
right.
It's about offering feedback,create space, set intention and
ask questions that bring theminto the moment, because the
goal isn't to win, it's toconnect, and sometimes the
hardest thing isn't saying thetruth, it's saying connect.
And sometimes the hardest thingisn't saying the truth, it's
saying it to someone you admireor someone you care about, or
someone you love, without makingthem feel like you're launching
(20:39):
a missile, even if the wholething kind of looked like one.
That's all for this week.
Thanks so much for listening tothis episode of the podcast.
Remember you can follow me inmy new content hub, substack.
You can find me atmollymcphersonprbreakdownmedia.
That will bring you to mySubstack publication.
(21:02):
Thanks so much for listening.
Bye for now.
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