August 20, 2025 • 27 mins
Taylor Swift didn’t just pop onto her boyfriend’s New Heights podcast for fun. She executed a masterclass in brand strategy. With over 16 million views and endless headlines, her first-ever appearance alongside Travis and Jason Kelce wasn’t casual. It was calculated.
In this episode of The PR Breakdown with Molly McPherson, a look at the strategy behind the appearance. Why it mattered, what Swift accomplished, and how it ties into her broader narrative of album rollouts, relationship optics, and reputation management.
What You’ll Hear About in This Episode
- The Optics: Why Swift’s on-camera presence, couple dynamics, and emotional stories humanized her brand at just the right time.
- Message Control: How choosing New Heights over legacy media gave her total control of the conversation.
- Redirection Strategy: How this appearance quietly shifted headlines away from Blake Lively’s legal mess and back onto Swift’s album.
- Cross-Brand Boost: Why this was just as beneficial for the Kelsey brand as it was for Swift.
- The Long Game: How this single appearance sets up Taylor’s reputation, her relationship, and her album narrative for the months ahead.
Why This Episode Matters
Swift’s appearance is a case study in modern communication—blending personal storytelling, platform control, reputation management, and viral timing. It’s the kind of move every communicator, marketer, and leader should pay attention to.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Molly McPherson (00:00):
So I wanted to show you something.
Okay, what's in it?
This is my brand new album.
My brand new album.
It's called the Life of aShowgirl.
Taylor Swift fans think thequeen of Easter eggs dropped
some major hints that she willbe the next Super Bowl halftime
performer.
Track six ruin the friendship.
(00:20):
Something can be about me andit can still be none of my
business.
While Taylor didn't getspecific, which headlines
sensationalized her name, it'sno secret.
She was dragged into Blake'slegal battle with her.
It Ends With Us director andco-star, justin Baldoni.
I'm watching Taylor Swift, alongwith over 16 million other
people.
Let's talk about it.
(00:41):
Hey there, welcome to the PRBreakdown Podcast.
I'm your host, molly McPherson.
Let's talk about it.
(01:07):
Hosted by her boyfriend, travisKelsey and, of course, his
brother, jason Kelsey.
I posted a video yesterday.
I took the afternoon off, wenton a bike ride, got caught in a
severe storm.
Bad on me for not checking theweather app, but I thought you
know what, what a great time topost something.
And of course, I'm looking atthe algorithm and there's Taylor
all over the place.
I did not watch the podcast atthat point, but I was able to
riff.
Three reasons why the appearanceon this podcast for Taylor
(01:29):
Swift was brilliant.
I will include a link in theshow notes to that post.
But in this episode of thepodcast I want to expand on it.
I really want to look at thisappearance from a strategic
communication point of view.
I don't want this to be justSwifty content no disrespect, of
course but I want to look at itfrom a strategic communication
point of view because this isstrategic.
(01:50):
This isn't just fandom.
Taylor does things for the fans, but Taylor doesn't do anything
.
That's not strategic and youhave to respect that about her.
And she's teaching a lot ofstrategy to her boyfriend,
travis Kelsey, and Jason Kelsey.
I mean, look at these two, lookat the Kelsey brand and Jason's
wife Kylie.
They're a huge, huge brandright now and a big part of that
(02:13):
is Taylor Swift.
So let's look at the brandSwift from this appearance and
what really like a case studyfor what you can learn about it.
So in this episode not reallyscripted I just put down some
notes from watching the podcast.
When I did this social mediapost, like I said, I hadn't seen
the podcast, but I heard a lotabout it and the morning it
(02:35):
released I read articles onlinefrom legacy press.
So New York Times, washingtonPost, I read CNN just everywhere
Everyone was writing about it.
I felt like every editor outthere just looked to the
youngest person on staff andsaid write something about
Taylor Swift.
We have to be a part of thealgorithm and the trends so we
can get the clicks on the storyand the views.
(02:57):
So, whether it's on socialmedia or views video, whatever
it is or printed, people wantedto talk about this story.
Now, I'm not going to be ahypocrite, it is.
Or printed.
People wanted to talk aboutthis story.
Now, I'm not going to be ahypocrite, I'm doing the same
thing, but it's not because it'sTaylor, it's because it is a
trending story that everyone'spaying attention to, and I love
ripping out case studies fromtopics or content that
everyone's talking about.
So let's look at some strategicobjectives from Taylor Swift's
(03:21):
appearance here.
So let me just bring up mynotes from watching the podcast.
I'm probably three quarters ofthe way yeah, a little over half
where they're talking aboutAndy Reid.
Now I have to be honest.
This is no hate to Taylor Swift, but the New Heights podcast
and Taylor Swift is not targetedto me.
I'll just say that it isstraight like an arrow targeted
(03:43):
to her fans, because she'ssitting there.
First of all, let's just startwith the optics, in terms of the
objectives.
Now, I know that there's a lotof content out there that will
decipher all the Easter eggsthat you see and all the
different things that Taylorstrategically does.
Now, she did mention in thispodcast that she's into
numerology and she loves Eastereggs.
She just loves it, and that'ssomething that I do love about
(04:05):
her.
I saw a post on Instagram orTikTok last night from someone
who is an artist and she waslike pulling out books and the
art that she sees there, so shewas talking about the colors.
By the by, in the social mediapost, I was wearing a green
color which matches Taylor'sgreen color here, and also, when
I was finished biking, I put onmy orange Patagonia skirt, so I
(04:27):
was wearing Taylor colorswithout really even planning for
that.
So I cannot decipher a lot ofthe Easter eggs, the optics, but
I can tell you what I candecipher from the two of them
together.
I have maintained this from thevery beginning with these two.
Is it a PR relationship?
(04:47):
Yes, all good relationships are, because it's a mutually
beneficial relationship andthere's mutual collaboration,
mutual love, all mutual aspectsof relationships where they're
positive, but the benefits areasbecause these aren't friends
benefits these aren't partneredwith benefits.
It benefits't partnered withbenefits.
It benefits both of theirbrands, which, if you're in a
(05:08):
good relationship, that's whatit should do, right, even if
your universe is just your world.
So these two absolutely helpeach other's brands.
I personally think that TaylorSwift is well beyond Travis
Kelsey.
I feel that Taylor,intellectually this is my only
Molly hot take.
I don't think I've ever heardanyone say this.
(05:29):
I think, intellectually,taylor's a better fit for Jason.
Honestly, jason's the smarterone of the two.
He really helped Travis whenthey were at Cincinnati, when
they played there and whenTravis got kicked out of school,
it was Jason who really helpedhim.
Jason brought him there andthen when Travis got booted,
jason is the one who kind ofbrought him back in.
So Jason has been that bigbrother who's led everything.
(05:50):
So I think Taylor is more onJason's level, but from a brand
point of view, clearly, like shematches with Travis.
Travis's brand is cool for him.
It's dead on it's footballplayer.
Football players don't need tobe brilliant.
Him, it's dead on it's footballplayer.
Football players don't need tobe brilliant, they just need to
look good, fit, that kind of bromold, which is exactly what
Taylor's image is, so it'sperfect.
(06:11):
So the two of them are there,always holding each other close,
and, you see, like a genuinepart of the relationship.
Now, strategically, why I thinkthis matters is because they
played off of how serious isthis relationship?
Is it fake?
Is it there only to benefiteach other?
They're showing, no, that we'rereal.
(06:33):
There's something here.
We're invested in each other.
They joke how they met.
It's all very, very genuine andI think this is very good for
both of them.
So this podcast appearance alsolike breaks beyond the
predictable press cycle.
It's not just Taylor and Travisagain at games, because they
couldn't do that.
If Travis went into the seasonwhere it's more of this kind of
(06:56):
peekaboo like how serious arethey, are they not?
It would have been old hat andpeople would have started to
turn on Taylor, because that'sthe cycle People love you and
then they get tired of you andthen they backlash you.
Taylor's too smart for that andher head of PR, really
strategic mind, tree Payne, istoo smart for that too.
So they needed to recycle yetcreate something new for the new
(07:19):
cycle.
So these two as like a reallyclose couple.
That's brilliant.
And also, even in this episodethey're tapping into the NFL
franchise.
I mean I don't think anyone hassaid those many glowing words
about Andy Reid, the coach ofthe Kansas City Chiefs, ever.
No surprise, taylor Swift's dadis a buddy of Andy Reid.
It kind of fits the whole storyvibe and culture of Taylor's
(07:43):
family background.
I think this kind of groupleans more conservative.
When I think of the Chiefs,when I think of Kansas, when I
think of every person I know,for the most part from Kansas,
they kind of lean towards thisconservative area, very
male-dominated.
But respect, like a woman likeTaylor doing this, they respect
their mamas, they respect DonnaI mean not that the Kelsey
(08:06):
brothers are from there, butjust Kansas, the whole thing,
the Chiefs, it just fits,everything fits in the brand.
The second reason why it'sbrilliant is because you have
full messaging control.
Today I had a call with aclient someone who's just going
through it, and I'll leave it atthat and we were looking for a
place to address what they'regoing through.
But I don't like doing it onsocial media like where the
(08:28):
haters are.
You want to do it in a placethat you own and it's just a
different environment.
And the reason why is becauseyou have full message control.
A podcast like this gives youfull message control.
She's not sitting down, so agealert, with a Mike Wallace or a
Barbara Walters or let's see who.
Gosh, gosh, who's our likebiting journalist of today who
asks like hard questions?
(08:48):
I don't even know Like RachelMaddow.
She's more political, andersonCooper is more.
Anyway, I don't even think wehave them anymore.
Everybody's like contentcreators.
But this puts them in a spacethat they have full control over
everything that they're doingand they're saying.
It's also a very safeenvironment for them.
Again, I mentioned thecross-promotion mutual benefit.
New Heights gets a big jump.
(09:11):
It's before the season.
They came in early becauseTaylor wanted to time it, which
is smart in late August.
That's a very smart time to doit.
We're kind of in thepre-preseason, so football's
just getting started, but thebuzz isn't really there just yet
because we're not in like theofficial deep into it, where
people are really gearing upbecause we haven't even hit
(09:31):
Labor Day yet and she'sannouncing it's kind of like the
pre-launch of the album.
So smart.
There's no big news happeningin late August, it's just viral
stories and she created herselfas a viral story and she gave a
massive boost to New Heights.
Next, there's an emotionalconnection for the brand
humanization.
You know she talked about herparents spending time with their
(09:53):
parents.
She got very emotional when shetold the story of her mom and
her brother getting the mastersof her music.
She started to cry and sheexplained the story when she
came in to tell Travis, who wasplaying a video game headphones
on with the buddies and he shutit down and then went to her and
she was so excited and cried Igot my master's back and then
explaining to Jason and thenJason's asking all the questions
because he's smart.
(10:14):
Jason Kelsey is a really goodinterviewer.
By the way, I really like JasonKelsey a lot.
He's a smart guy and he's sucha kind of a dude too, like he
makes messy mistakes but he justdoesn't care, like.
I love Jason Kelsey for that,but he's a really really good
interviewer and he interviewedthem in a way that made them
both very human, like you couldlook at your friends.
For people my age who's beenfriends decades earlier, let's
(10:37):
say new relationships when youhave friends in new
relationships, they're close andthey still sound like that were
new.
So he brought out that humanelement quite well and also
brought up kind of that behindthe scenes aspect which people
love about Taylor Swift.
So it's balancing like polishedstorytelling, like even when
she's talking about the healthof her father and what he went
through and how they spent a lotof time in Florida and how
(10:59):
family is so important and howScott's buddies with Andy Reid,
the coach, the Chiefs it justshowed that their circle's
pretty tight there.
Taylor talked about makingsourdough bread for Jason's
girls with Kelsey.
Those are very human storiesthat if you think about Taylor
Swift, she doesn't let anybodyin.
That's been her brand from thebeginning.
You only get to see what shewants you to see and a lot of it
(11:22):
wasn't private at all.
You got to see insights,curation behind her friendships,
but you weren't getting it.
This is the first time she isreally really letting you in
behind the scenes.
I just think it worked Allright.
Next let's get into the area ofcrisis management and
distraction strategy.
This is my lane, this is what Ipay attention to and this is
(11:45):
what I noticed.
This podcast gives herredirection from a new cycle, an
algorithm cycle that includesBlake Lively.
Ryan Reynolds tried to do whatTaylor Swift is doing right now
(12:05):
control their own messagingaround their relationship and
around Blake Lively's experienceon the movie set.
It Ends With Us with directorand co-star Justin Baldoni.
They tried to outmanage it andit did not work.
They are still suffering fromit one year later and if you've
seen any of my content about ityear later and if you've seen
(12:28):
any of my content about it, I amnot, by default, a pro-Justin
Baldoni person at all, but whenI look at what's going on, I
think Justin Baldoni is beingcompletely railroaded, not
necessarily by Blake Lively, butby Ryan Reynolds.
I think it was all orchestratedand I'm just going to say I
don't do this to myself a lot,but I called this in August.
I was writing for Forbes backthen.
Now I'm on a lot, but I calledthis in August.
I was writing for Forbes backthen.
Now I'm on Substack, but I waswriting for Forbes and I wrote a
(12:50):
story and I was following alongwhat was happening in August.
Because Ryan Reynolds issomeone I pay attention to
because I don't see what he says.
I don't even listen to what hesays, because I don't like to
hear what he says, because hedrives me nuts.
Honestly, what he does justjumps out at me and it's jumped
out at me for a year and that'swhy I noticed it last August
(13:11):
when I wrote a story about it.
The social media curation andpublic relations around Blake
Lively was so artificial to meand it was so strategic and not
in a smooth tree-pane TaylorSwift way, in a very clunky,
arrogant Ryan Reynolds way.
So Taylor Swift has been caughtup in their maelstrom of just
(13:32):
incompetence and ego and she istrying actively to remove
herself from it.
I've had podcast episodes inthe past where we talk about
this, where I've talked aboutwhat has been dropped in TMZ.
These are direct drops from herteam going there.
You absolutely see herstrategically distancing herself
from Blake Lively, not justfrom a brand point of view and a
(13:52):
reputation point of view, butalso from a legal point of view.
She does not want to be sweptup in this court case.
She does not want to be calledto trial in March.
She wants nothing to do withthis at all.
So that's why I think it'sredirecting the news cycle to
her relationship with Travis.
So that sets them for the fallseason, because even like,
(14:13):
travis is getting a little longin the tooth for an NFL career
when you get to this point, evenwhen you're Tom Brady like Tom
Brady gets to the point wherehe's almost like a robot because
of what he puts in his body andhow he views his health.
I don't think Travis pays thesame mind to his health.
I mean pretty decent, the guylooks good, don't get me wrong.
But Travis is a little moretypical of NFL players that have
(14:34):
been at it that long.
At some point your body justcan't keep up.
That's why Jason Kelsey'salready retired now.
It's been two seasons, I thinkhe's already been retired.
He might have an on and offseason.
Okay, we saw parts of it lastseason.
So it actually matches too,like these two tight like this.
So if Travis Kelsey does havean up and down season, it will
(14:55):
make them look good becauseTaylor will be there and Taylor
will be there a lot during thatseason because they'll
definitely cut to her a lot andit also is going to ensure that
the album is the focus ofanything with Taylor Swift.
It's going to be Travis andthen Blake Lively.
Ryan Reynolds is going to be sofar down she doesn't want
anything to do with it.
It also creates narrativeflooding and SEO flooding On my
(15:17):
post because I kept saying SEOon my post and I was a little
surprised how many people saidwhat's SEO?
Or someone wrote on my post I'mwriting search engine
optimization for people whodon't know and I thought, wow,
do people really not know that?
Well, molly, shame on you.
You should have said that.
Don't assume that everyoneknows.
I just assume, if you're onTikTok, what SEO means, so not
pat on the back there, molly.
(15:39):
Search engine optimization it'swhat happens when you search a
name.
So if you put Taylor Swift,does it say Taylor Swift and
Travis Kelsey, or does it sayTaylor Swift and Blake Lively?
No, it's going to say TaylorSwift, new Heights.
Taylor Swift Travis Kelsey.
Taylor Swift Album Drop.
Taylor Swift Life of a Showgirl.
Like there's going to be somany other searches before you
get to Taylor Swift and BlakeLively, and that is by design.
(16:02):
It also created headlines.
Headline makes for SEO and now,with AI GPTs out there that are
just pulling and scrubbing theinternet, more people are going
to find this content and they'regoing to hook to these stories.
So it's actually going to shiftanything that you put on AI as
well.
So that's why it's smart andthis podcast appearance
(16:25):
dominated trending lists acrosssocial media YouTube, apple
Podcasts, x, tiktok, google News, all of it.
So smart, smart, smart.
It's also preemptive reputationmanagement.
She doesn't even bring upLively.
It shifts the conversation awayfrom that friendship.
Is there still a friendship toher artistry, her masters, her
(16:46):
relationship and her businessmilestones?
That's the narrative that shewants out there and it also
demonstrates her being moreproactive about than reactive.
She's getting so far ahead ofany potential issues with this
case because Lively's alreadysat for a deposition.
It is still going on.
You know over the summer thatBlake Lively and Ryan Reynolds
(17:09):
they went after content creatorsLike every mistake that they
can make.
It seems like they are makingfrom a reputation point of view
Now, from a long-term PR andbrand benefit, the reputation
optics, relationship optics, asa reputation shield.
Right now she isn't just TaylorSwift, she's Taylor Swift and
Travis Kelsey, and I think she'sgoing to be Taylor Swift and
Travis Kelsey at least untilDecember.
(17:32):
If the Chiefs go deep into theplayoffs and work towards a
Super Bowl, then maybe we'll getit to January and maybe we
might get it into February, butI don't know.
I don't know.
I don't think this is going tobe their year, but they have
Mahomes.
I mean it is a good team so itcould go deep into the season.
I think we're going to getrelationship Taylor Swift.
We're also going to getmulti-category media coverage.
(17:53):
We're going to get press insports, in lifestyle, in music,
in business outlets.
There's going to be expandingbrand touch points.
This album is going to beabsolutely everywhere.
Someone said in my comments thatthe album is released on
National Boyfriend Day and Ithink National Plaid Day too.
Someone said that in mycomments, which, again, all
sorts of clever.
But this whole rollout isreaching audiences that might
(18:16):
not otherwise be engaged with atraditional album rollout.
I think with Taylor Swift,you're always going to get news
about a rollout, but when shedoes it like this, there's so
much more.
There's also long-tail contentleverage.
So hours of footage are now onTikTok, instagram Reels, youtube
Shorts it's everywhere.
It flooded social media.
I'm recording this the dayafter the release, so I'll be
(18:38):
curious when this podcast airshow many views will be there.
I wonder if it will double bythen.
But my goodness.
But for a preseason episode, 16million views.
That's crazy.
And finally, it frames thealbum as a milestone project.
It was inspired by the heiresstour.
She explains how she woulddecompress in the bathtub.
(19:03):
There's just so much artistryto it.
The colors, the songs.
Now I don't know, but she doesknow that there still will be a
connection to Blake Lively.
There has to be.
That's just how it works.
Taylor Swift mentioning in thispodcast that she doesn't read
social media.
Now, on the one hand, thatdoesn't help her, because
(19:26):
there's a lot of people therewho get really excited because
they think they're getting likesor something from Taylor Swift.
Taylor Swift is coming out andsaying no, that's not me.
Her fans are okay with that.
Swifties are okay with anythingthat she does.
I love her message about notgetting into social media.
I love that.
It's toxic to the brain.
That's just me.
That's my interpretation ofwhat she was saying.
But what she also needs to dois sidestep Blake Lively, but
(19:48):
she needs to address it.
Without addressing it and thisin her very eggtastic way what
she did is People has anexclusive.
Taylor Swift and Blake Livelyaren't speaking as fans
speculate about singer's songRuin the Friendship.
Swift's new song, ruin theFriendship, will feature on the
singer's upcoming album, theLife of a Showgirl.
(20:09):
So Taylor Swift and BlakeLively are currently not
speaking as Swift prepares torelease her next album in
October.
Their friendship has been underscrutiny since the singer's
name was brought up in the itEnds With Us legal battle
between Lively and JustinBaldoni, and they have been
friends since 2014.
The first line of this articleTaylor Swift and Blake Lively
are currently not incommunication.
Oh, wow, okay, this has insiderall over it.
(20:34):
Their longtime friendship hasbeen under public scrutiny since
Swift's name was brought intoLively's ongoing legal battle
with Justin Baldoni.
So Swift 35 has come up severaltimes during the actress's
legal war with Baldoni.
The superstar's name was firstbrought into the mix when
Baldoni's legal team allegedthat Swift had pressured him to
accept Lively's rewrites on themovies in a complaint filed by
(20:55):
Baldoni, and that has since beendismissed.
But the basic narrative is thatTaylor Swift was brought in when
they all came to that penthouseand Justin Baldoni felt
pressured and Taylor Swift wasthere.
See Taylor Swift and her team.
They don't like other peoplereleasing private information
about Taylor Swift.
That, no, no, no, no.
(21:16):
So really, it's not JustinBaldoni that's getting the big
hit with it, it's Blake Livelyis getting the big hit with it.
She used Taylor Swift and youdon't use Miss Swift for that.
So now, when they released NewHeights, when she announced the
life of a showgirl, there was asong titled Ruin.
The Friendship Intentional ithas to be.
(21:37):
What does it do?
It causes her fans to startspeculating, so of course it's
going to do that.
So Swift revealed during arecent appearance on Boyfriend
Travis Kelsey's podcast that sherecorded the album why on the
(21:57):
European leg of her Heiress tourbefore she became embroiled in
the it Ends With Us drama.
But in April a source toldpeople that Swift quote was
really hurt after she wasimplicated in Lively and
Baldoni's legal case.
And in May a source told peoplethat her friendship with Lively
has halted.
That's straight from allegedly,but I'm saying from my
experience, that is straightfrom Taylor's camp.
At that time, another insidersaid that while the pair were
(22:17):
quote taking some space, theywere quote, not no longer
friends.
So it's a way of saying, well,no, it's not like she's not my
friend and I'm icing her out,but this is just how I'm rolling
.
Two months later, a source toldpeople that Lively and Swift
were working towards being ongood terms, though their
friendship isn't the same as itwas before.
(22:37):
So, strategically, what ishappening here was before.
So, strategically, what ishappening here?
The sources, which I wouldassume are all from the same
camp, are giving you all sortsof narratives.
They're no longer friends butthey're still working on being
friends.
It evens out, it completelyneutralizes it.
That's smart, because mostpeople might think, oh, it's a
bunch of different sources outthere so no one really knows
(22:59):
what the truth is.
But this is what I think youcan take away from this.
There's one source and aninsider which could be from two
different people, but they'reall from Swift's camp.
She is strategically distancingherself from Blake Lively by
saying that they're not reallyon speaking terms right now.
I mean, she doesn't have totalk about her Meaning.
It makes sense that she doesn'ttalk about her, because I've
(23:20):
already put it out there, folkswe're not talking about, we're
not really friendly right nowanyway.
So I really don't want tomention it.
Just think, like with yourbestie group, with your
girlfriends, when someone's kindof on the out, you just what's
there, but you really don'tpublicly talk about it, but just
you talk about it, right?
Jason Kelsey, the Kelsey brand.
Yes, ryan Reynolds has a lot ofmoney.
His brand was huge.
(23:42):
It was big.
He sold the aviation gin.
He also had his company wasinvolved in the Astronomer,
which listen to my podcast aboutthat.
I know everybody loved the adwith Gwyneth Paltrow, and I'm
reading the Gwyneth Paltrow book, by the way, and I already love
it because the author, amyO'Dell, told me read the
introduction about dealing withthe publicists for Gwyneth
Paltrow and already I'm hookedjust from that, because what do
(24:03):
they do In that book?
I'll just drop this right now.
Gwyneth Paltrow's publicistsays oh yeah, I'll work with you
.
The publicist says Amy O'Dell,the author of the biography oh
yeah, we'll work with you.
Gwyneth will work with you,absolutely.
So.
Then Amy thinks that they'reworking and then all and she
tries to get answers no,basically, he gets ghosted.
That's what they do.
This is how you manage a brandwhen you're in Hollywood or when
(24:24):
you're like really, really big,like this, and you just stay
kind of beyond it.
Ryan Reynolds and Blake Livelythey got stuck in it because
they thought they could gobeyond it, but the problem is
they don't have enough peoplewho love them, compared to
Taylor Swift and one might argue.
But Gwyneth Paltrow has a lotof haters, true, but that's part
of her brand.
Part of her brand is beingunrelatable and being all goopy
(24:46):
and having like these crazygoopy products.
But people aspire to be like aGwyneth Paltrow, even though
they know she is not relatableat all.
Taylor Swift is not relatableat all.
She's a billionaire, but she'srelatable as a girl.
So it works and it does notwork for Blake Lively.
(25:06):
So here's the key takeaway forcommunicators, strategic types
or people who are just curiousfrom a strategic point of view,
this New Heights appearance forTaylor Swift shows the power of
blended marketing, personalnarrative and reputation
management all in one singlemedia event.
It's brilliant.
She carefully chose a platformthat offered reach, control,
(25:30):
emotional depth and showed whothey really were, like a genuine
couple.
But it also amplified the albumlaunch and also amplified new
New Heights, helped the wholeentire Kelsey brand and swayed
and redirected the publicconversation away from sensitive
personal rumors and speculationaround her friendship with
(25:51):
Blake Lively, who's married toRyan Reynolds.
Of course, I still say this.
It's August, one year since theit Ends With Us and Deadpool
premieres and they're still init.
Why?
Because of bad PR.
You want to know good strategicPR.
Taylor Swift appearing on NewHeights.
That's all for this week on thepodcast.
(26:13):
Thanks so much for listening.
Bye for now.
So I wanted to show you something.
Okay, what's in it?
This is my brand new album.
My brand new album.
It's called the Life of aShowgirl.
Taylor Swift fans think thequeen of Easter eggs dropped
some major hints that she willbe the next Super Bowl halftime
performer.
Track six ruin the friendship.
(00:20):
Something can be about me andit can still be none of my
business.
While Taylor didn't getspecific, which headlines
sensationalized her name, it'sno secret.
She was dragged into Blake'slegal battle with her.
It Ends With Us director andco-star, justin Baldoni.
I'm watching Taylor Swift, alongwith over 16 million other
people.
Let's talk about it.
(00:41):
Hey there, welcome to the PRBreakdown Podcast.
I'm your host, molly McPherson.
Let's talk about it.
(01:07):
Hosted by her boyfriend, travisKelsey and, of course, his
brother, jason Kelsey.
I posted a video yesterday.
I took the afternoon off, wenton a bike ride, got caught in a
severe storm.
Bad on me for not checking theweather app, but I thought you
know what, what a great time topost something.
And of course, I'm looking atthe algorithm and there's Taylor
all over the place.
I did not watch the podcast atthat point, but I was able to
riff.
Three reasons why the appearanceon this podcast for Taylor
(01:29):
Swift was brilliant.
I will include a link in theshow notes to that post.
But in this episode of thepodcast I want to expand on it.
I really want to look at thisappearance from a strategic
communication point of view.
I don't want this to be justSwifty content no disrespect, of
course but I want to look at itfrom a strategic communication
point of view because this isstrategic.
(01:50):
This isn't just fandom.
Taylor does things for the fans, but Taylor doesn't do anything
.
That's not strategic and youhave to respect that about her.
And she's teaching a lot ofstrategy to her boyfriend,
travis Kelsey, and Jason Kelsey.
I mean, look at these two, lookat the Kelsey brand and Jason's
wife Kylie.
They're a huge, huge brandright now and a big part of that
(02:13):
is Taylor Swift.
So let's look at the brandSwift from this appearance and
what really like a case studyfor what you can learn about it.
So in this episode not reallyscripted I just put down some
notes from watching the podcast.
When I did this social mediapost, like I said, I hadn't seen
the podcast, but I heard a lotabout it and the morning it
(02:35):
released I read articles onlinefrom legacy press.
So New York Times, washingtonPost, I read CNN just everywhere
Everyone was writing about it.
I felt like every editor outthere just looked to the
youngest person on staff andsaid write something about
Taylor Swift.
We have to be a part of thealgorithm and the trends so we
can get the clicks on the storyand the views.
(02:57):
So, whether it's on socialmedia or views video, whatever
it is or printed, people wantedto talk about this story.
Now, I'm not going to be ahypocrite, it is.
Or printed.
People wanted to talk aboutthis story.
Now, I'm not going to be ahypocrite, I'm doing the same
thing, but it's not because it'sTaylor, it's because it is a
trending story that everyone'spaying attention to, and I love
ripping out case studies fromtopics or content that
everyone's talking about.
So let's look at some strategicobjectives from Taylor Swift's
(03:21):
appearance here.
So let me just bring up mynotes from watching the podcast.
I'm probably three quarters ofthe way yeah, a little over half
where they're talking aboutAndy Reid.
Now I have to be honest.
This is no hate to Taylor Swift, but the New Heights podcast
and Taylor Swift is not targetedto me.
I'll just say that it isstraight like an arrow targeted
(03:43):
to her fans, because she'ssitting there.
First of all, let's just startwith the optics, in terms of the
objectives.
Now, I know that there's a lotof content out there that will
decipher all the Easter eggsthat you see and all the
different things that Taylorstrategically does.
Now, she did mention in thispodcast that she's into
numerology and she loves Eastereggs.
She just loves it, and that'ssomething that I do love about
(04:05):
her.
I saw a post on Instagram orTikTok last night from someone
who is an artist and she waslike pulling out books and the
art that she sees there, so shewas talking about the colors.
By the by, in the social mediapost, I was wearing a green
color which matches Taylor'sgreen color here, and also, when
I was finished biking, I put onmy orange Patagonia skirt, so I
(04:27):
was wearing Taylor colorswithout really even planning for
that.
So I cannot decipher a lot ofthe Easter eggs, the optics, but
I can tell you what I candecipher from the two of them
together.
I have maintained this from thevery beginning with these two.
Is it a PR relationship?
(04:47):
Yes, all good relationships are, because it's a mutually
beneficial relationship andthere's mutual collaboration,
mutual love, all mutual aspectsof relationships where they're
positive, but the benefits areasbecause these aren't friends
benefits these aren't partneredwith benefits.
It benefits't partnered withbenefits.
It benefits both of theirbrands, which, if you're in a
(05:08):
good relationship, that's whatit should do, right, even if
your universe is just your world.
So these two absolutely helpeach other's brands.
I personally think that TaylorSwift is well beyond Travis
Kelsey.
I feel that Taylor,intellectually this is my only
Molly hot take.
I don't think I've ever heardanyone say this.
(05:29):
I think, intellectually,taylor's a better fit for Jason.
Honestly, jason's the smarterone of the two.
He really helped Travis whenthey were at Cincinnati, when
they played there and whenTravis got kicked out of school,
it was Jason who really helpedhim.
Jason brought him there andthen when Travis got booted,
jason is the one who kind ofbrought him back in.
So Jason has been that bigbrother who's led everything.
(05:50):
So I think Taylor is more onJason's level, but from a brand
point of view, clearly, like shematches with Travis.
Travis's brand is cool for him.
It's dead on it's footballplayer.
Football players don't need tobe brilliant.
Him, it's dead on it's footballplayer.
Football players don't need tobe brilliant, they just need to
look good, fit, that kind of bromold, which is exactly what
Taylor's image is, so it'sperfect.
(06:11):
So the two of them are there,always holding each other close,
and, you see, like a genuinepart of the relationship.
Now, strategically, why I thinkthis matters is because they
played off of how serious isthis relationship?
Is it fake?
Is it there only to benefiteach other?
They're showing, no, that we'rereal.
(06:33):
There's something here.
We're invested in each other.
They joke how they met.
It's all very, very genuine andI think this is very good for
both of them.
So this podcast appearance alsolike breaks beyond the
predictable press cycle.
It's not just Taylor and Travisagain at games, because they
couldn't do that.
If Travis went into the seasonwhere it's more of this kind of
(06:56):
peekaboo like how serious arethey, are they not?
It would have been old hat andpeople would have started to
turn on Taylor, because that'sthe cycle People love you and
then they get tired of you andthen they backlash you.
Taylor's too smart for that andher head of PR, really
strategic mind, tree Payne, istoo smart for that too.
So they needed to recycle yetcreate something new for the new
(07:19):
cycle.
So these two as like a reallyclose couple.
That's brilliant.
And also, even in this episodethey're tapping into the NFL
franchise.
I mean I don't think anyone hassaid those many glowing words
about Andy Reid, the coach ofthe Kansas City Chiefs, ever.
No surprise, taylor Swift's dadis a buddy of Andy Reid.
It kind of fits the whole storyvibe and culture of Taylor's
(07:43):
family background.
I think this kind of groupleans more conservative.
When I think of the Chiefs,when I think of Kansas, when I
think of every person I know,for the most part from Kansas,
they kind of lean towards thisconservative area, very
male-dominated.
But respect, like a woman likeTaylor doing this, they respect
their mamas, they respect DonnaI mean not that the Kelsey
(08:06):
brothers are from there, butjust Kansas, the whole thing,
the Chiefs, it just fits,everything fits in the brand.
The second reason why it'sbrilliant is because you have
full messaging control.
Today I had a call with aclient someone who's just going
through it, and I'll leave it atthat and we were looking for a
place to address what they'regoing through.
But I don't like doing it onsocial media like where the
(08:28):
haters are.
You want to do it in a placethat you own and it's just a
different environment.
And the reason why is becauseyou have full message control.
A podcast like this gives youfull message control.
She's not sitting down, so agealert, with a Mike Wallace or a
Barbara Walters or let's see who.
Gosh, gosh, who's our likebiting journalist of today who
asks like hard questions?
(08:48):
I don't even know Like RachelMaddow.
She's more political, andersonCooper is more.
Anyway, I don't even think wehave them anymore.
Everybody's like contentcreators.
But this puts them in a spacethat they have full control over
everything that they're doingand they're saying.
It's also a very safeenvironment for them.
Again, I mentioned thecross-promotion mutual benefit.
New Heights gets a big jump.
(09:11):
It's before the season.
They came in early becauseTaylor wanted to time it, which
is smart in late August.
That's a very smart time to doit.
We're kind of in thepre-preseason, so football's
just getting started, but thebuzz isn't really there just yet
because we're not in like theofficial deep into it, where
people are really gearing upbecause we haven't even hit
(09:31):
Labor Day yet and she'sannouncing it's kind of like the
pre-launch of the album.
So smart.
There's no big news happeningin late August, it's just viral
stories and she created herselfas a viral story and she gave a
massive boost to New Heights.
Next, there's an emotionalconnection for the brand
humanization.
You know she talked about herparents spending time with their
(09:53):
parents.
She got very emotional when shetold the story of her mom and
her brother getting the mastersof her music.
She started to cry and sheexplained the story when she
came in to tell Travis, who wasplaying a video game headphones
on with the buddies and he shutit down and then went to her and
she was so excited and cried Igot my master's back and then
explaining to Jason and thenJason's asking all the questions
because he's smart.
(10:14):
Jason Kelsey is a really goodinterviewer.
By the way, I really like JasonKelsey a lot.
He's a smart guy and he's sucha kind of a dude too, like he
makes messy mistakes but he justdoesn't care, like.
I love Jason Kelsey for that,but he's a really really good
interviewer and he interviewedthem in a way that made them
both very human, like you couldlook at your friends.
For people my age who's beenfriends decades earlier, let's
(10:37):
say new relationships when youhave friends in new
relationships, they're close andthey still sound like that were
new.
So he brought out that humanelement quite well and also
brought up kind of that behindthe scenes aspect which people
love about Taylor Swift.
So it's balancing like polishedstorytelling, like even when
she's talking about the healthof her father and what he went
through and how they spent a lotof time in Florida and how
(10:59):
family is so important and howScott's buddies with Andy Reid,
the coach, the Chiefs it justshowed that their circle's
pretty tight there.
Taylor talked about makingsourdough bread for Jason's
girls with Kelsey.
Those are very human storiesthat if you think about Taylor
Swift, she doesn't let anybodyin.
That's been her brand from thebeginning.
You only get to see what shewants you to see and a lot of it
(11:22):
wasn't private at all.
You got to see insights,curation behind her friendships,
but you weren't getting it.
This is the first time she isreally really letting you in
behind the scenes.
I just think it worked Allright.
Next let's get into the area ofcrisis management and
distraction strategy.
This is my lane, this is what Ipay attention to and this is
(11:45):
what I noticed.
This podcast gives herredirection from a new cycle, an
algorithm cycle that includesBlake Lively.
Ryan Reynolds tried to do whatTaylor Swift is doing right now
(12:05):
control their own messagingaround their relationship and
around Blake Lively's experienceon the movie set.
It Ends With Us with directorand co-star Justin Baldoni.
They tried to outmanage it andit did not work.
They are still suffering fromit one year later and if you've
seen any of my content about ityear later and if you've seen
(12:28):
any of my content about it, I amnot, by default, a pro-Justin
Baldoni person at all, but whenI look at what's going on, I
think Justin Baldoni is beingcompletely railroaded, not
necessarily by Blake Lively, butby Ryan Reynolds.
I think it was all orchestratedand I'm just going to say I
don't do this to myself a lot,but I called this in August.
I was writing for Forbes backthen.
Now I'm on a lot, but I calledthis in August.
I was writing for Forbes backthen.
Now I'm on Substack, but I waswriting for Forbes and I wrote a
(12:50):
story and I was following alongwhat was happening in August.
Because Ryan Reynolds issomeone I pay attention to
because I don't see what he says.
I don't even listen to what hesays, because I don't like to
hear what he says, because hedrives me nuts.
Honestly, what he does justjumps out at me and it's jumped
out at me for a year and that'swhy I noticed it last August
(13:11):
when I wrote a story about it.
The social media curation andpublic relations around Blake
Lively was so artificial to meand it was so strategic and not
in a smooth tree-pane TaylorSwift way, in a very clunky,
arrogant Ryan Reynolds way.
So Taylor Swift has been caughtup in their maelstrom of just
(13:32):
incompetence and ego and she istrying actively to remove
herself from it.
I've had podcast episodes inthe past where we talk about
this, where I've talked aboutwhat has been dropped in TMZ.
These are direct drops from herteam going there.
You absolutely see herstrategically distancing herself
from Blake Lively, not justfrom a brand point of view and a
(13:52):
reputation point of view, butalso from a legal point of view.
She does not want to be sweptup in this court case.
She does not want to be calledto trial in March.
She wants nothing to do withthis at all.
So that's why I think it'sredirecting the news cycle to
her relationship with Travis.
So that sets them for the fallseason, because even like,
(14:13):
travis is getting a little longin the tooth for an NFL career
when you get to this point, evenwhen you're Tom Brady like Tom
Brady gets to the point wherehe's almost like a robot because
of what he puts in his body andhow he views his health.
I don't think Travis pays thesame mind to his health.
I mean pretty decent, the guylooks good, don't get me wrong.
But Travis is a little moretypical of NFL players that have
(14:34):
been at it that long.
At some point your body justcan't keep up.
That's why Jason Kelsey'salready retired now.
It's been two seasons, I thinkhe's already been retired.
He might have an on and offseason.
Okay, we saw parts of it lastseason.
So it actually matches too,like these two tight like this.
So if Travis Kelsey does havean up and down season, it will
(14:55):
make them look good becauseTaylor will be there and Taylor
will be there a lot during thatseason because they'll
definitely cut to her a lot andit also is going to ensure that
the album is the focus ofanything with Taylor Swift.
It's going to be Travis andthen Blake Lively.
Ryan Reynolds is going to be sofar down she doesn't want
anything to do with it.
It also creates narrativeflooding and SEO flooding On my
(15:17):
post because I kept saying SEOon my post and I was a little
surprised how many people saidwhat's SEO?
Or someone wrote on my post I'mwriting search engine
optimization for people whodon't know and I thought, wow,
do people really not know that?
Well, molly, shame on you.
You should have said that.
Don't assume that everyoneknows.
I just assume, if you're onTikTok, what SEO means, so not
pat on the back there, molly.
(15:39):
Search engine optimization it'swhat happens when you search a
name.
So if you put Taylor Swift,does it say Taylor Swift and
Travis Kelsey, or does it sayTaylor Swift and Blake Lively?
No, it's going to say TaylorSwift, new Heights.
Taylor Swift Travis Kelsey.
Taylor Swift Album Drop.
Taylor Swift Life of a Showgirl.
Like there's going to be somany other searches before you
get to Taylor Swift and BlakeLively, and that is by design.
(16:02):
It also created headlines.
Headline makes for SEO and now,with AI GPTs out there that are
just pulling and scrubbing theinternet, more people are going
to find this content and they'regoing to hook to these stories.
So it's actually going to shiftanything that you put on AI as
well.
So that's why it's smart andthis podcast appearance
(16:25):
dominated trending lists acrosssocial media YouTube, apple
Podcasts, x, tiktok, google News, all of it.
So smart, smart, smart.
It's also preemptive reputationmanagement.
She doesn't even bring upLively.
It shifts the conversation awayfrom that friendship.
Is there still a friendship toher artistry, her masters, her
(16:46):
relationship and her businessmilestones?
That's the narrative that shewants out there and it also
demonstrates her being moreproactive about than reactive.
She's getting so far ahead ofany potential issues with this
case because Lively's alreadysat for a deposition.
It is still going on.
You know over the summer thatBlake Lively and Ryan Reynolds
(17:09):
they went after content creatorsLike every mistake that they
can make.
It seems like they are makingfrom a reputation point of view
Now, from a long-term PR andbrand benefit, the reputation
optics, relationship optics, asa reputation shield.
Right now she isn't just TaylorSwift, she's Taylor Swift and
Travis Kelsey, and I think she'sgoing to be Taylor Swift and
Travis Kelsey at least untilDecember.
(17:32):
If the Chiefs go deep into theplayoffs and work towards a
Super Bowl, then maybe we'll getit to January and maybe we
might get it into February, butI don't know.
I don't know.
I don't think this is going tobe their year, but they have
Mahomes.
I mean it is a good team so itcould go deep into the season.
I think we're going to getrelationship Taylor Swift.
We're also going to getmulti-category media coverage.
(17:53):
We're going to get press insports, in lifestyle, in music,
in business outlets.
There's going to be expandingbrand touch points.
This album is going to beabsolutely everywhere.
Someone said in my comments thatthe album is released on
National Boyfriend Day and Ithink National Plaid Day too.
Someone said that in mycomments, which, again, all
sorts of clever.
But this whole rollout isreaching audiences that might
(18:16):
not otherwise be engaged with atraditional album rollout.
I think with Taylor Swift,you're always going to get news
about a rollout, but when shedoes it like this, there's so
much more.
There's also long-tail contentleverage.
So hours of footage are now onTikTok, instagram Reels, youtube
Shorts it's everywhere.
It flooded social media.
I'm recording this the dayafter the release, so I'll be
(18:38):
curious when this podcast airshow many views will be there.
I wonder if it will double bythen.
But my goodness.
But for a preseason episode, 16million views.
That's crazy.
And finally, it frames thealbum as a milestone project.
It was inspired by the heiresstour.
She explains how she woulddecompress in the bathtub.
(19:03):
There's just so much artistryto it.
The colors, the songs.
Now I don't know, but she doesknow that there still will be a
connection to Blake Lively.
There has to be.
That's just how it works.
Taylor Swift mentioning in thispodcast that she doesn't read
social media.
Now, on the one hand, thatdoesn't help her, because
(19:26):
there's a lot of people therewho get really excited because
they think they're getting likesor something from Taylor Swift.
Taylor Swift is coming out andsaying no, that's not me.
Her fans are okay with that.
Swifties are okay with anythingthat she does.
I love her message about notgetting into social media.
I love that.
It's toxic to the brain.
That's just me.
That's my interpretation ofwhat she was saying.
But what she also needs to dois sidestep Blake Lively, but
(19:48):
she needs to address it.
Without addressing it and thisin her very eggtastic way what
she did is People has anexclusive.
Taylor Swift and Blake Livelyaren't speaking as fans
speculate about singer's songRuin the Friendship.
Swift's new song, ruin theFriendship, will feature on the
singer's upcoming album, theLife of a Showgirl.
(20:09):
So Taylor Swift and BlakeLively are currently not
speaking as Swift prepares torelease her next album in
October.
Their friendship has been underscrutiny since the singer's
name was brought up in the itEnds With Us legal battle
between Lively and JustinBaldoni, and they have been
friends since 2014.
The first line of this articleTaylor Swift and Blake Lively
are currently not incommunication.
Oh, wow, okay, this has insiderall over it.
(20:34):
Their longtime friendship hasbeen under public scrutiny since
Swift's name was brought intoLively's ongoing legal battle
with Justin Baldoni.
So Swift 35 has come up severaltimes during the actress's
legal war with Baldoni.
The superstar's name was firstbrought into the mix when
Baldoni's legal team allegedthat Swift had pressured him to
accept Lively's rewrites on themovies in a complaint filed by
(20:55):
Baldoni, and that has since beendismissed.
But the basic narrative is thatTaylor Swift was brought in when
they all came to that penthouseand Justin Baldoni felt
pressured and Taylor Swift wasthere.
See Taylor Swift and her team.
They don't like other peoplereleasing private information
about Taylor Swift.
That, no, no, no, no.
(21:16):
So really, it's not JustinBaldoni that's getting the big
hit with it, it's Blake Livelyis getting the big hit with it.
She used Taylor Swift and youdon't use Miss Swift for that.
So now, when they released NewHeights, when she announced the
life of a showgirl, there was asong titled Ruin.
The Friendship Intentional ithas to be.
(21:37):
What does it do?
It causes her fans to startspeculating, so of course it's
going to do that.
So Swift revealed during arecent appearance on Boyfriend
Travis Kelsey's podcast that sherecorded the album why on the
(21:57):
European leg of her Heiress tourbefore she became embroiled in
the it Ends With Us drama.
But in April a source toldpeople that Swift quote was
really hurt after she wasimplicated in Lively and
Baldoni's legal case.
And in May a source told peoplethat her friendship with Lively
has halted.
That's straight from allegedly,but I'm saying from my
experience, that is straightfrom Taylor's camp.
At that time, another insidersaid that while the pair were
(22:17):
quote taking some space, theywere quote, not no longer
friends.
So it's a way of saying, well,no, it's not like she's not my
friend and I'm icing her out,but this is just how I'm rolling
.
Two months later, a source toldpeople that Lively and Swift
were working towards being ongood terms, though their
friendship isn't the same as itwas before.
(22:37):
So, strategically, what ishappening here was before.
So, strategically, what ishappening here?
The sources, which I wouldassume are all from the same
camp, are giving you all sortsof narratives.
They're no longer friends butthey're still working on being
friends.
It evens out, it completelyneutralizes it.
That's smart, because mostpeople might think, oh, it's a
bunch of different sources outthere so no one really knows
(22:59):
what the truth is.
But this is what I think youcan take away from this.
There's one source and aninsider which could be from two
different people, but they'reall from Swift's camp.
She is strategically distancingherself from Blake Lively by
saying that they're not reallyon speaking terms right now.
I mean, she doesn't have totalk about her Meaning.
It makes sense that she doesn'ttalk about her, because I've
(23:20):
already put it out there, folkswe're not talking about, we're
not really friendly right nowanyway.
So I really don't want tomention it.
Just think, like with yourbestie group, with your
girlfriends, when someone's kindof on the out, you just what's
there, but you really don'tpublicly talk about it, but just
you talk about it, right?
Jason Kelsey, the Kelsey brand.
Yes, ryan Reynolds has a lot ofmoney.
His brand was huge.
(23:42):
It was big.
He sold the aviation gin.
He also had his company wasinvolved in the Astronomer,
which listen to my podcast aboutthat.
I know everybody loved the adwith Gwyneth Paltrow, and I'm
reading the Gwyneth Paltrow book, by the way, and I already love
it because the author, amyO'Dell, told me read the
introduction about dealing withthe publicists for Gwyneth
Paltrow and already I'm hookedjust from that, because what do
(24:03):
they do In that book?
I'll just drop this right now.
Gwyneth Paltrow's publicistsays oh yeah, I'll work with you
.
The publicist says Amy O'Dell,the author of the biography oh
yeah, we'll work with you.
Gwyneth will work with you,absolutely.
So.
Then Amy thinks that they'reworking and then all and she
tries to get answers no,basically, he gets ghosted.
That's what they do.
This is how you manage a brandwhen you're in Hollywood or when
(24:24):
you're like really, really big,like this, and you just stay
kind of beyond it.
Ryan Reynolds and Blake Livelythey got stuck in it because
they thought they could gobeyond it, but the problem is
they don't have enough peoplewho love them, compared to
Taylor Swift and one might argue.
But Gwyneth Paltrow has a lotof haters, true, but that's part
of her brand.
Part of her brand is beingunrelatable and being all goopy
(24:46):
and having like these crazygoopy products.
But people aspire to be like aGwyneth Paltrow, even though
they know she is not relatableat all.
Taylor Swift is not relatableat all.
She's a billionaire, but she'srelatable as a girl.
So it works and it does notwork for Blake Lively.
(25:06):
So here's the key takeaway forcommunicators, strategic types
or people who are just curiousfrom a strategic point of view,
this New Heights appearance forTaylor Swift shows the power of
blended marketing, personalnarrative and reputation
management all in one singlemedia event.
It's brilliant.
She carefully chose a platformthat offered reach, control,
(25:30):
emotional depth and showed whothey really were, like a genuine
couple.
But it also amplified the albumlaunch and also amplified new
New Heights, helped the wholeentire Kelsey brand and swayed
and redirected the publicconversation away from sensitive
personal rumors and speculationaround her friendship with
(25:51):
Blake Lively, who's married toRyan Reynolds.
Of course, I still say this.
It's August, one year since theit Ends With Us and Deadpool
premieres and they're still init.
Why?
Because of bad PR.
You want to know good strategicPR.
Taylor Swift appearing on NewHeights.
That's all for this week on thepodcast.
(26:13):
Thanks so much for listening.
Bye for now.
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