PR Meets Politics: Cheryl Hines Learns the Kennedy Spin

When your marriage becomes a media strategy, what do you say—and what do you not say?

In this episode, Molly McPherson breaks down Cheryl Hines’ carefully crafted response to rumors surrounding her husband, RFK Jr., and journalist Olivia Nuzzi. Fresh off her appearance on the Katie Miller Podcast, Hines offered a masterclass in polished PR talk, leaning on trust, communication, and a dash of Kennedy-style deflection.

But was it authenticity or choreography?

Molly dissects:

• The Kennedy family’s long history of narrative control
• How Hines framed her marriage as a story of trust and composure
• What her phrasing reveals about modern political spouse PR
• The difference between personal grace and public messaging
• Why sometimes the smartest media move is saying less (with confidence)

Tune in for an unfiltered look at how Hollywood charm meets political spin—and what it teaches us about image, loyalty, and the art of public denial.

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Episode Transcript

Molly McPherson (00:00):
Hey there, in this episode of the podcast,
let's look at a public marriageunder pressure, a friendship
that couldn't survive thepolitics, and a journalist whose
messages with her reportingsubject detonated her job.
Cheryl Hines, Robert F.
Kennedy Jr., Tick DeTaro,Olivia Nuzi.
The question is simple.

(00:20):
When loyalty becomes themessage, where does the
credibility go?
Cheryl Hines, best known fromCurb Your Enthusiasm, starring
Larry David, is facing one ofthe harder PR tests of her life.
Here are the players and thestakes.
Hines, of course, is married toRFK Jr., who went from
long-shot presidential candidateto a Trump-aligned cabinet role

(00:44):
as Secretary of Human andHealth Services.
Journalist Olivia Nutzi admitsto what she calls a digital
affair with Kennedy.
And Heinz's longtime friend andpodcast co-host Tig Nataro ends
the friendship over values.
This isn't about gossip, it'sabout optics and credibility.
Is this accountability orcontainment?

(01:06):
Let's lay out the timelineclearly so we're all working
from the same record.
I just finished a YouTube livewith my community.
I said, I'm going in, I'mtalking about Cheryl Hines.
I want to highlight some of thethings that she said during
these peak moments in hermarriage to RFK Jr.

(01:26):
I love these lives because Ilike getting the feedback from
people in the chat.
And people always love to givelittle factoids as well, some
things that you've never heardof.
Some people are completelywired into RFK, his past, the
Kennedy past.
Everybody can chime in.
And we started even with CherylHines.
We, of course, know her fromKirbier Enthusiasm, but I said,

(01:47):
I think rather graciously, Icalled her like a mid-actress.
I gave her like maybe B minuson the scale there.
A lot of people said she was C,C minus.
But I think we all agreed without Kirby Enthusiasm, not many
people would be talking aboutCheryl Hines.
But because she's married toRFK Jr., she is a name.

(02:08):
That's why likely she had abook deal.
Her book, Unscripted, recentlycame out a few months ago.
But now she's dealing withsomething else.
So the marriage to Kennedy.
So all this drama predates.
So Hines marries Kennedy in2014.
Fast forward 2023, Kennedyannounces his presidential run.

(02:29):
His public positions,especially on vaccines,
abortion, move from thebackground to center stage.
This created problems for agood friend of Cheryl Hines,
that's comedian Tignitaro.
Those two had a podcasttogether, and a lot of people
liked it.
And a lot of people inHollywood liked it.
They would break downdocumentaries together.

(02:50):
And there was a lot of laughterin it.
You could see that they werejust good friends.
It was a podcast where youreally felt like you were
eavesdropping or listening in ontwo very good friends giving
their takes on documentaries.
But once Kennedy entered therace, Tignataro, who was gay,
who is very vocal about her moreprogressive views, started to

(03:14):
have problems with thisrelationship.
She once described the wholeRFK Jr.
of it all as minor annoyances,but it became unavoidable on a
national platform.
According to Tig, Hinesencouraged her just to hear
Kennedy out.
And I think that's probablywhat did it.
That would be the moment ifCheryl Hines were trying to
explain to me.

(03:35):
But just hear him out.
And here's the reason why itwould end it right there.
And just like Tig Nataro, shesaid, her words were, I can't, I
just didn't trust it.
She was on Tom Papa's podcast,and in that section of the
interview, she really said, andit sounded sad when she was
explaining that was thebreakdown of their friendship.
When Kennedy endorsed Trump andlater accepted his role in the

(03:56):
Trump administration, Tig calledit, not my world.
And that's when the friendshipended.
Now, on to the marriageheadlines.
In September 2024, OliviaNutzi, then a political
correspondent for New Yorkmagazine covering Kennedy's
campaign, acknowledges that hercommunications with Kennedy
became personal.
She denies any physicalrelationship but confirms

(04:18):
intimate messaging.
And honestly, ooh, I don't evenwant to think about what that
means.
New York magazine, who she waswriting the piece for, places
her on leave, reviews the work,says the stories themselves are
factually accurate, and concludeshe violated disclosure and
conflict of interest standard.
She leaves in magazine the nextmonth.
But then the personal falloutcontinues.

(04:39):
Nutzi at the time was engagedto political's Ryan Lizza.
He ends the engagement and bothlater accuse each other of
harassment and blackmail inlegal filings.
It got messy.
It got personal.
It's all the things that fuel aPR scandal.
That same month, Cheryl Hinesis photographed at Milan Fashion

(05:01):
Week without her wedding ring.
I am linking my podcast fromlast September in the show
notes.
If you want to listen to thatpodcast, where I talk about
Cheryl Hines appearing at MilanFashion Week without her wedding
ring.
And she was waving her hand.
She knew exactly that she wasbeing photographed.
And if you watch the video ofher coming out of the car, she

(05:23):
comes out slowly.
She takes her time.
Her ringless finger on her lefthand, very prominent.
And those ringless imagesdominated the feeds and became
the visual shorthand for amarriage under stress.
After returning, Heinzaddresses the moment in

(05:43):
interviews because she has hermemoir out.
And her consistent lines arethese.
And then after returning, Heinzjust let it go away.
You almost picture behind thescenes, Bobby said, Listen, I
need you to be on the team.
When I talked about this in thelive, some people in the chat
said, maybe she has anagreement, a prenuptial

(06:05):
agreement.
Maybe there's a clause whereshe has to make X amount of
years in the marriage.
Who knows?
The timelines are very closefor that marriage.
RFK Jr., he was married to hisfirst wife, Emily.
He was cheating on Emily withhis second wife, Mary Richardson
Kennedy.
And if you read theinformation, and this is
alleged, that there was alsocrossover in Mary Richardson's

(06:28):
marriage to RFK Jr.
and Cheryl Hines.
Mary Richardson, sadly, is nolonger with us.
And a lot of that has to dowith the pressure of being with
RFK Jr.
He does not sound like a goodperson to be married to.
And Cheryl Hines was alsomarried to someone else.
They have one daughtertogether.
And I remember when all thiswas going down, and I was
thinking, why?

(06:48):
Is the Kennedy allure?
Is the pull that strong to be aKennedy?
And that's the Kennedy that youwant to pick.
So now, fast forward October2025, Nutsi gets a publishing
deal.
She has a book that's comingout.
This means that Heinz has to goout and address it.

(07:11):
She appeared on the KatieMiller podcast.
It came out yesterday, the dayafter this recording is
released.
So I've not heard it yet.
But we've seen excerpts fromthe podcast pulled by politics,
like all over the place thesedays.
They're the ones who came outwith the leak about the young
Republicans that was in lastweek's episode.

(07:31):
But Cheryl Hines has a job todo.
Some of the quotes that werepulled from the interview, she
is speaking in her consistentlines.
Quote, you have to consider thesource.
It ends with a conversationwith Bobby.
Cheryl Hines said she feltoverwhelmed and embarrassed when
the messages became public.
And in the past, she said she'sfelt overwhelmed and

(07:53):
embarrassed when messages becamepublic.
She's also been quoted assaying that she briefly
considered divorce, but thenaccepted Kennedy's denial that
anything physical happened.
She frames the outcome as thecouple becoming closer.
She stated that you have toconsider the source.
So part of the likelyadministration push through

(08:16):
Cheryl Hines is that they haveto denounce the source, which is
Nutzi, which is interesting todo.
It's not like she's some floozyor bimbo coming out.
This isn't some bimbo eruption,a la President Clinton, right?
She's now a politicalcontributor to Vanity Fair.
She has respect as ajournalist.

(08:36):
She has credentials.
It's tough to go against it.
So it'll be interesting to seewhat comes out in this book.
But the Trump administrationclearly is doing damage control
right now.
And to add one more thread,last September, when all this
came out, there was additionalchatter about Kennedy's past
relationships and allegedinfidelity over the years.

(08:58):
The website media, they talkabout the media industry.
They published claims frommultiple women, three, tied to
his orbit, saying they hadromantic relationships with RFK
Jr.
outside the marriage duringthat year, while he was married
to Cheryl Hines.
So those are allegations.
There are denials on therecord.

(09:20):
So they're not verified asfact.
However, it just adds to themess.
Last piece of context Nutzimoves to Los Angeles, becomes
West Coast editor at VanityFair, and is now writing this
memoir that will include theaffair revelation.
So the New York magazine exitand the personal fallout.
But she recovered.

(09:41):
Now that's the setup.
Let's pull apart the messaging.
We analyze message strategy onthree axes: language, timing,
and delivery.
Then we ask what the goalappears to be.
So language first.
Heinz relies on these types ofphrases.
Consider the source.
We talk privately.
We trust each other.

(10:01):
Each one lowers the temperaturewithout adding information.
Consider the source, discreditscritics.
It discredits Nutsie.
We talk privately, closes thedoor to follow-ups.
We trust each other,substitutes emotion for
evidence.
None of that addresses theethical questions created when a

(10:22):
journalist acknowledgedintimate communication with her
reporting subject.
That's a nutsie issue.
What Cheryl Hines needs todiscuss, her issue is her
marriage and can RFK Jr.
be trusted.
But NUTSI's language matterstoo.
She uses the phrasecommunications became personal
and adds never physical.

(10:43):
That's controlled wording.
It acknowledges boundarycrossing.
It does acknowledge boundarycrossing, but it minimizes the
nature of the relationship.
It's classic post-crisisphrasing intended to reduce harm
while admitting to a breach ofstandards.
Timing.
The ringless Milan photosappear immediately after the

(11:05):
digital affair becomes public.
Whether deliberate orcoincidence, I think it was 100%
deliberate.
The timing invites speculationand supplies the story's most
powerful image.
Heinz did not race to respondfrom a public perception point
of view.
I think that response wasdirect to Bobby.
It was a threat.

(11:26):
She is saying, I will blow youup.
This is just a taste of whatyou're going to get.
Nutsi's admission also arrivesafter the story breaks, not
before, which is reactiveaccountability, not proactive
disclosure.
And lastly, delivery.
Heinz chooses interviews and amemoir.
So no notes, app, apology, nolive camera, no extemporaneous

(11:51):
statements.
It's all edited and mediated.
She did do an interview on CBSMorning recently, but it was a
package.
It wasn't live.
That minimizes risk.
It also minimizes credibilitygains.
Nutzi's delivery is a formalstatement to the press, then a
career pivot, and a forthcomingbook that allows her to control

(12:11):
the narrative as the narrator.
So the apparent goal in bothcases is the same.
Limit narrative damage,polished restraint does that.
It does not resolve.
However, it does not resolvecredibility.
Now, media and platformchoices, they determine how a
story lives in culture.
And here's how this onetraveled the ringless Milan

(12:33):
image becomes that definingvisual.
When most people think of thistabloid, the tabloids push
marital crisis, mainstreamcoverage reframes it as ethics
and accountability story withmore emphasis on standards,
conflict, and politicalimplications.
If Cheryl Hines is not playingby the playbook and she's

(12:56):
showing up in Milan where she'stelling the press she's going to
be there, she slowly exits thecar and it is a slow roll
planned pap walk.
She's sending a message andshe's in control.
RFK Jr., not in control.
Tig Nitaro's interviews providemoral contrast, calm tone,

(13:18):
clear boundaries, no personalattacks.
She reframes the conversationfrom scandal to values, why it's
what you align with publiclyand how it matters.
Tig Nitaro isn't in crisis.
And it's clear that she doesn'twant to hurt Cheryl Hines, but
she needs to explain why sheseparated herself, why she

(13:38):
distanced herself from a verygood, tight relationship.
Nutsi's move to Vanity Fair inthe memoir announcement
reposition her from a politicalreporter to a culture narrator.
That's a strategic identityshift from subject to author,
from scrutiny toself-explanation.
She's just one more woman in along line of Kennedy women.

(14:00):
And I think she has thecredibility as a reporter and
now as a West Coast editor togive herself some of the
credibility to distance herselffrom the scandal.
In short, every participantrepackages their role.
Heinz becomes the loyal spouseunder scrutiny.
Nozi becomes the flawedjournalist, turned first-person
narrator, and Ataro becomes thefriend who chose values over

(14:24):
proximity.
I guess the former friend.
So the credibility tests, weuse one simple model: reaction,
accountability, and repair.
Reaction.
Hein's reaction outside of theBalan photos is composed,
contained, disciplined.
Accountability is lacking.

(14:46):
There's no public-facingspecificity.
That is by design, no directengagement with the press, with
the core ethical problem raisedby the NUTSI admissions.
The message is loyalty, notclarity, and repair.
That's to be determined.
If the strategy is silence andserenity, then the repair

(15:06):
depends on the next headline,not the visible steps taken now.
So in PR terms, this issuccessful containment, but also
failed credibility.
It preserves dignity.
It does not rebuild trust inCheryl Hines or RFK Jr.
So here are three takeaways forthree audiences.

(15:26):
For leaders, handling somethingprivately might work inside a
relationship.
But if the crisis is public,visible accountability is part
of the job.
For journalists and creators,boundaries are credibility.
Disclosure protects the workand the audience.
If you wait until exposure toacknowledge a conflict, you've
already lost the trust window.

(15:47):
And for everyone listening,when a response feels polished
but empty, you're not seeinghonesty.
You're seeing strategy.
Silence is rarely neutral, it'susually tactical.
But the broader lesson issimple: spin thrives in
ambiguity.
The less specific the language,the more control the speaker
keeps.
Cheryl Hines managed theoptics.

(16:08):
Tignitaro managed herboundaries, and Olivia Nutzi
managed the fallout.
Only one of those choicesbuilds lasting credibility.
Calm is not proof.
Control without clarity is notaccountability.
And accountability isn'texposure, it's credibility.
And truth never goes out ofstyle.

(16:29):
That's all for this week on thepodcast.
Thanks so much for listening.
Bye for now.