August 16, 2022 • 46 mins
This episode was originally published as part of the Restaurant Growth Podcast. It has been rebranded as part of The Pre-Shift Podcast as of January 2023. The information presented may no longer be up-to-date and may differ from the viewpoints and insights currently shared on The Pre-Shift Podcast.
The restaurant business is notorious for being a tough one to work in. And for decades, it has been. But we’re at an inflection point—and restaurant leaders are rethinking what it means to be a part of this industry right now. A better work environment is here, and for guys like Adam Lamb, it’s a long time coming.
Adam and I sat down to discuss his career as a chef, when he realized that things needed to change, and how he’s begun to do just that from his position as a leader. We also chat about what the new kitchen culture looks like, and how we can achieve it.
The Restaurant Growth Podcast is presented by 7shifts and hosted by DJ Costantino.
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Host & Producer: D. J. Costantino
Producer: Samantha Fung
Editor: Fina Charleston
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
DJ Costantino (00:01):
Hey everybody.
What is going on?
My name is DJ and you are backwith the restaurant growth
podcast by seven shifts on thisshow, we speak with the best
minds in the restaurant businessto give you big insights and new
ideas on how to help yourrestaurants grow.
Adam Lamb joins us today.
He's a chef with 30 years ofexperience and the host of both
chef life, radio and line checkpodcast, where he helps chefs
(00:21):
enjoy their career withoutsacrificing their health and
wellbeing.
We got to chatting about whenAdam realized that the
restaurant business needed tochange what the new generation
of chefs want.
And it's not all that differentfrom what the other generations
wanted and ways to make yourrestaurant a great place to
work.
So without further ado here isAdam.
Hey
Adam Lamb (00:39):
Adam, how are you today?
I am.
Excellent.
Thanks Dominic.
I really appreciate you.
Uh, having me on the show.
Really excited.
DJ Costantino (00:46):
Absolutely.
Yeah, me too.
Thanks for, thanks for takingthe time out to come on.
You know, I, I could do an introof you, but I think you'd
probably do a little bit of abetter job than me.
So tell us a little bit aboutyourself, how you got started in
the restaurant.
Adam Lamb (00:58):
Sure.
My name is Adam Lamb.
Currently I run two podcasts.
One is called chef life radio,and then one is called the line
check.
And just recently I haverepositioned my coaching and
consulting business,specifically around community
communication and culture withinthe hospitality industry.
You know, I started.
In the industry, like many of usdo, you know, I was looking for
(01:20):
a part-time job while I was inhigh school and started washing
dishes at, uh, the localrestaurant, the big wheel in
Hammond, Indiana.
The reason I went there isbecause my dad who was a college
professor would go there everymorning for breakfast and
sometimes go at lunch betweenclasses.
And so I think part of it waswanting to be closer to him,
even though that didn'tnecessarily work right.
But I hated the job for like thelongest time I used to take like
(01:43):
the.
Really charred pans and stick'emup in the popcorn ceiling, cuz I
didn't really wanna work on'em.
Uh, until one Friday night I waswalking past the kitchen and I
just kind of caught something,caught me outta the corner of my
eye.
And I looked into the kitchenand there were two women that
worked together.
One was a large woman.
Her name was AR Telia white.
She had a gold tooth right inthe front of her mouth.
And uh, she used to sit there inthe window and talk to all the
(02:06):
customers and the other one, I,I never got her name, but she.
As cold and severe as art TEIAwas warm and welcoming.
And what happened was is what Isaw was this incredible dance
that they were doing completelyunspoken.
They weren't talking to oneanother, but it was like a
ballet that was happening infront of my eyes.
And.
(02:26):
Being an artist from way back,everything that was going on,
the pans, clacking, the steam,the smoke, they were just doing
this thing between them.
That just transfixed me and I,wow.
I liken it to what's called thedream of the dance, like how
good it can be when everythingworks.
Right?
Yeah.
And from then on, you know, Idon't know whatever that is, but
I gotta get something.
(02:46):
Yeah,
DJ Costantino (02:47):
absolutely.
Um, so where did you go go fromthere?
You know, you kind of, I thinkmaybe that, that seems like the
moment where you maybe fell inlove with the, with the business
or, you know yeah.
Maybe that kind of set you downthe path that you, that you
took.
Did you go to culinary school?
Did you start working inrestaurants and what, what was
the next step
Adam Lamb (03:03):
for you?
Yeah, I didn't go to culinaryschool, um, to start off with, I
kind of bopped around locallywhere I lived just right outside
of Chicago and Chicago at thattime was a huge Mecca for a lot
of, uh, old school, Italianrestaurants and the scene just
kind of blowing up there.
And so I thought if I could justget up to Chicago.
Yeah.
I could like make away.
(03:24):
I tried to get out of thebusiness and do other things.
You know, I sold clothes, I soldshoes.
I tried to do other things.
And yet the business just keptcalling me back.
I felt like you.
Part of the mafia, you know,they just, as soon as I out it
pulls me back, absolutely.
I got as far as, uh, a countryclub.
Okay.
Um, outside of Chicago and Icouldn't necessarily see any way
(03:45):
to make that jump by the way.
That was the very first time Iworked with a chef.
Okay.
Uh, and, um, it was a woman.
and she visited upon me almostevery single indignation and
slight that had VI visited uponher in her career.
So I became like the virtualwhipping boy for right, for to
(04:07):
take all the crap that she hadbeen dealt.
And I, right.
Didn't even really didn't reallypiss me off.
I just kind of, it just gave mean aha as to.
What women in the industry hadto go through at that particular
time?
Absolutely.
And so I decided to go in themilitary.
My dad thought that was thegreatest thing in the world.
You know, here, Adam, you'refinally taking control of your
own life.
I'm like dad, they, they teachyou to full underwear in four
(04:28):
squares.
Like that's not.
DJ Costantino (04:32):
The illusion of control made.
Adam Lamb (04:33):
Right?
and if anybody who knows meknows that I broke against any
kind of authority, always hadkind of a rebellious nature.
So that was like the weirdestchoice for me to make.
But I thought perhaps because Ihad some cooking ability, they
would put me in a culinaryschool and I would end up
cooking for, you know, generalor whatever.
Right.
(04:53):
As it turned out, uh, as soon asI graduated basic training and
then went to Denver Lowry airforce base for my training.
Specifically for culinary.
They sent me right out to themissile fields in wonderful.
All me South Dakota or air forcebase.
Who's anybody who's ever beenout there that was at the
(05:14):
beginning of, uh, 24 hour B 52bomb alerts.
And that was a big B 52 baseplus it had these missile silos.
So you'd go out there for threedays.
The lieutenants would go down inthe capsule and I'd have to cook
for team 10 guys for three dayson and three days off.
And it was basically what theycalled the foil pack system.
So it was all these foods that Ihad to pull out of the freezer.
(05:36):
People would choose one fromColme and one from colo B.
And the only thing I reallycooked fresh was breakfast,
which remains to this day, myfavorite meal.
But the, you know, the guyswould go out and, you know, kill
coyotes or rattlesnakes orwhatever, and sometimes we'd
bring'em back and, and do agrill out.
Yeah, so it was weird.
It was a weird way.
And when I got outta themilitary, I ended up right back
(05:56):
at the same country club.
Believe it or not just turnedout.
There was a terrible time in theUnited States for recession.
Pittsburgh was a nightmare,which were, was my wife was
from, and, and once we got backto Chicago, I kind of started
jumping geographically, uh, andin complexity to more and more
dynamic restaurants and ended updowntown Chicago.
(06:17):
Opening up the very first Dickas restaurant in 1986, right
after they won the super bowl.
So that was pretty much a crazy,crazy time.
I bet that's
DJ Costantino (06:27):
exciting, Mike, because like his restaurant.
Adam Lamb (06:30):
Yeah.
And that was the eighties,right?
That was the eighties.
Yeah, that was 86 to 90.
Okay.
And then 1990, I found myself,uh, accepting a position in
south Florida where I spent thenext 25 years.
Very cool.
Yeah.
DJ Costantino (06:44):
So, you know, quite the career, quite the
different stops and, andinteresting perspectives.
And I'm sure you've met a lot ofinteresting folks as well, um,
and had a lot of greatexperiences.
You know, something you talk alot about now is kind of how to
have that kitchen career.
Without kind of sacrificing youryourself, you know, your
wellbeing, your mental, physicalhealth, um, because it is a very
(07:05):
challenging industry to work in,you know, was there a specific
moment in your career where youmaybe you realized things have
to change or, you know, I'm, I'mdoing too much to myself.
Was it more of a slow burn orlike, was there like that aha
Adam Lamb (07:18):
moment?
Well, the slow burn occurs kindof like frog in the beaker.
So, yes.
Um, by the way, I never got inan industry to create any
particular type of.
Culinary vision.
Like I didn't have this idea ofthe type of food I was gonna
make.
What really attracted me to theindustry was the people.
Yeah.
Like the community that existedwithin the, uh, within the
(07:39):
operation and, you know, verymuch like Anthony Bordain, you
could.
Has he related, you know, youcould, you could come from
anywhere.
Nobody give his shit, you know,it's Tarian.
So if you can, if you can stillhold down your station and
produce 200 S exactly the waythat they need to be done on a
Sunday, you're in.
Yeah.
So having, having this communityreally meant a lot to me, and
(08:01):
there was a moment.
In the nineties, I was, uh,running a restaurant.
The very first full servicerestaurant in a movie theater,
uh, was right outside of BocaRaton.
It was called, uh, movie copremier.
It was so well done from thepresident's vision of the
company all the way down to, uh,the floor plan, which, you know,
I basically walked in thatbuilding and was still beams.
(08:23):
And, uh, and project managed thething outta the ground.
So I was incredibly emotionallyinvested, but there was one
moment where I walked in thegeneral manager office and I was
just smoking pissed.
I was pissed at everybody.
Yeah.
And so I was back and forth infront of her desk, ranting and
raving about, you know, thisplace sucks.
My cook suck.
My, so chef sucks.
Uh, the people who come heresuck everything and she just
(08:44):
kind of sat there with a smirkon her face.
And then she, till I wascompletely outta gas, and then
she said, but Adam, don't, yousee the God in what you do?
And I'm like, what?
Like, what do you mean, God, yougotta be.
And she said, okay, so you go tothe gas station.
Now you pay at the pump.
You don't even go inside.
You go to the bank, pay the ATM.
You don't even go inside.
Yeah.
In our current culture, there'sless and less opportunity for
(09:07):
people to interact.
She said, what you do providesan opportunity for people to
come around a table.
Something that they probablyhaven't done in a long time and
be in relationship with oneanother.
Right.
She.
Can't you see, you know, howsacred that is.
Mm.
And I walked away from thatmeeting kind of scratching my
head and going, well, maybe I'vebeen thinking about this overall
yeah.
(09:28):
Not, not that I providedanything that was particularly
holy in that moment.
I mean, right.
A lot of are pizzas, Caesarsalads.
Great, great steaks pastes.
I mean, we did a very, very highquality job, but I didn't see it
as anything more than somethingto survive.
Right.
And I realized at that momentthat what I brought to the
(09:49):
operation, uh, as a leader wasimmediately taken on by
everybody else.
So if I was in a shitty mood,everybody else is in a shitty
mood.
They get their heads down.
They it's all asses and elbowsand they're working really,
really hard.
But if I come in there andpositive, Attitude.
Right.
Then all of a sudden people arepicking up on me because they're
so emotionally keyed to theleader position that they, uh,
(10:11):
subconsciously start pickingthat up.
And that's when I realized thatI had an obligation far more
into my staff than I did to thecustomers.
And that's when things startedreally changing.
Yeah.
And.
Not to put, to find a point onit.
It's also when I stoppedbelieving my own bullshit and
realize that I, as a person, asa human being, as a man had my
own work to do.
(10:31):
Yeah.
And if I couldn't get that stuffdone, then it wouldn't matter.
Goddamn thing.
What happened inside the shop?
And do
DJ Costantino (10:36):
you feel like maybe the way you were at that
time was, was learned or, orinfluenced by the leaders that
you had had?
You know, you mentioned, youknow, your first chef kind of
put, put a lot on you mm-hmmthat was unfair.
And I'm sure what was put onthem was unfair as well.
Mm-hmm and that kind of likebegets, uh, you know, a big
cycle of, of kind of negativity.
Adam Lamb (10:55):
Yeah.
I think, um, one of the biggestlies.
We took on.
And I say we, as the generationof chefs that I came up with was
that because it was done to us,that's, that's the way things
were done and that's how weneeded to treat others.
Right.
So, because we were shamed and,and I like to say, um, trained
shamed and conditioned to be acertain way, to be tough, to
(11:17):
suck it up sunshine, to nevercomplain, to never want anything
outside the box, because.
To be Frank.
One of the things that one ofthe other pivotal moments for me
was when the millennials werestarting to come into the
workplace, I wrote an articlecalled are the millennials
making the hospital industryworse?
Yeah.
Uh, because a lot of people werecomplaining about the fact that,
(11:38):
oh, they want this, they wantthat da, da, da.
And upon reflection, I realizedthat they only wanted what we
wanted at one point in time.
Right.
They had.
Minerals to stand up and say,this is this, these are my
values.
And this matters to me.
Whereas when I was coming up, Ilooked around and realized
there's no point in me evenspeaking my mind or asking for
(11:59):
what I wanted, because I justknew it was never gonna come.
Right.
So for a lot of the older guys,I think, or the older chefs
pissed them off because here,these guys are gonna get away
with what they actually wanted.
And so this whole conditioninghappened.
On the line elbow, elbow.
So I'm a big fan of sayingculture starts right.
Where you're at elbow to elbowwith the next person.
(12:20):
Yeah.
And if there's not an, ifthere's not a clear intention
about what that culture shouldbe, then by default, it becomes
kind of, uh, Lord of the flies,so to speak mm-hmm So, because
someone had been trained shamedand conditioned, they're gonna
turn around and train shamecondition.
right.
One, one of my ver I actuallyheard my very best.
(12:41):
In a kitchen, say this to one ofhis line cooks about, um, about
the fact that they had no honeymustard sauce.
On their station.
Uh, and he said, I'm gonna cometo your house.
I'm gonna burn it down and I'mgonna salt the earth so that
nothing ever grows back, youknow, kind of like a biblical
proportions right on the line infront of everybody.
And while everybody's just kindof looking down, this person has
(13:02):
got their eyes big as plates,and I'm like, uh, man, there's,
there's gotta be a better way todo this.
Gotta be a better way to dothis.
Yeah.
DJ Costantino (13:10):
Yeah.
And I think too, like that,just, that makes me think of
like a hell's kitchen kind ofthing.
Yeah.
It's like people would, youknow, that's what they think.
It's, it's kind of funny, butit's like, is this funny?
Adam Lamb (13:20):
Like right, exactly.
I mean, I think, you know,Gordon Ramsey has come, you
know, he developed a shtick thatwe sell to the networks and he's
created this empire of his, um,but it's predicated on a lie,
which is, you know, you cangreat and bring down other
people.
And very often the people thatneed to do that are the ones who
(13:41):
weren't feeling secure withinthemselves.
So Absolut.
First thing I needed to do wasactually get clear on what I
brought to the table and what Icould do very, very well and
then look around and see wherethose complimentary pieces were
and invite them in underneaththe tent.
And not to think that there wasa time in my career where I
could not say, I didn't knowanything.
Right.
(14:02):
I had a, I had a food andbeverage manager who came and
said, okay, I'm gonna need thisreport on Monday in Excel
format.
It was a Friday afternoon.
Right.
I said, uh, I don't know.
He says, well, you better learn.
Right?
So I sat in my office for 36hours and basically taught
myself Excel in order to producethis document, because it was
culinary career suicide to admitthat, you know, you didn't know
(14:24):
how to pull sugar, or you didn'tknow how to peel a Tenderloin or
any of these things.
Whereas now a smart leader knowsthat he doesn't have to have all
those specific skill sets, buthe has to be able to, you know,
pull together a team.
That has those full complimentsand learn from one another
because that's really where thejuice is.
Right?
DJ Costantino (14:45):
Exactly.
Yeah.
And like making and you have tounderstand, I think, and, and
this is beyond the kitchenthough.
Um, but especially in thekitchen, as a leader,
understanding what yourweaknesses are, right?
Yep.
And like, if you, you know, youcan't be good at everything.
Right.
And I don't think you can't justsay, oh, well, these are my
weaknesses.
Let me let.
Hire people to, or find peoplethat, that make up for them.
(15:05):
Um, but to a certain extent, youhave to know that, you know,
this is just something I'm notgonna be good at, or maybe not
my natural inclination and Ineed help and find someone that
can help with that.
Adam Lamb (15:14):
One of the, one of the most powerful books I read
just in the last year is thisbook called who not how it's
based on Dan Sullivan's work,strategic coach.
But basically it says that assoon as you start thinking about
how you're gonna get somethingdone, That should be an instant
indication that you need to finda who to get it done.
So when you start, when youstart looking at your crew,
(15:37):
like, how the hell am I gonnaget this done?
Because again, as the apexpredator and the very small
aquarium as the executive chefor the general manager, the
pressure is on you in order tocreate the results.
Right?
So very often I would take thaton as I need to figure out how
to do.
And for a long time, I wascompletely not interested in, in
(15:57):
anybody else's solutions becauseit had to come from me, uh, for
good or ill.
And to be honest, there were acouple times where it fell
squarely on my shoulders and Ihad to take the hit and, you
know, find another job.
But, you know, thinking thatway, believing that way for me,
shut off.
So many other possibilities thatI think now exist.
(16:17):
In a lot more open landscapewhere people can put their hands
up and say, okay, I don't knowhow to get this done, but we
together have to get this done.
Anybody got any ideas?
Right?
Which is also one of the kind ofmain drivers of building this
internal community of having.
Transparency vulnerability infront of your crew, you know,
using your experiences to allowthem to speak about theirs.
(16:38):
Because very often nobody'sgonna put their hand up.
If they think they're gonna gettheir heads chopped off, that's
the right.
That's the poppy syndrome and itstill exists.
You know, when I say mygeneration of chefs, there's
plenty of chefs out there, youngand old who are manag.
Under this idea that it's gottabe their personality as opposed
to standards.
So there is still a lot for alot of us to learn.
(17:02):
Absolutely.
DJ Costantino (17:02):
What do you mean by that?
Like personality instead ofstandards, like, did this person
needs, I'm not gonna get like,you know what I mean?
Adam Lamb (17:13):
It's, it's, it's a, it's a perfectly fair question.
Yeah.
So typically, and I'm not gonnapaint with a broad brush, so
I'll just speak about myexperiences when I would hire
people.
Very often I would hire peoplewho, who mirrored my thoughts,
my beliefs, my actions.
And so I'm using my personalityin order to motivate or inspire
(17:35):
them.
Right.
As, as opposed to hiring a broadclass.
Of individuals who are skilledat certain positions, almost
like putting together abasketball team or a football
team, you know, who's gonna playin what position and then using
the standards of the operationsin order to manage.
Right.
Okay.
So you you've been late twicethis week.
All right.
So you remember when we didorientation and you signed off
(17:59):
on all these papers, one ofwhich was, you know, you
promised not to be late, right.
Or have excessive tar, do youremember signing.
Uh, yeah, I remember so.
Okay.
So then is there anything I needto understand about what's going
on this week?
That you've been late twice?
Like giving them an opportunityto talk about what's going on
outside of it.
(18:19):
And then if they're like, no, alot of times what ends up
happening is they'll just cop toit and like, yeah, I fucked up.
I'm sorry.
And that's an opportunity forthem to become more mature and
own their actions.
The repercussions that come outof those actions, because
ultimately what you're doing isimpacting the people that work
next to you because now theygotta take on extra work.
(18:40):
So that's what I mean aboutmanaging by standards versus
dude, what's up, man?
You know, you're letting medown.
Well, you're not letting medown.
You're right,
DJ Costantino (18:48):
right.
Yeah.
Adam Lamb (18:48):
Come on man.
Like.
It's it's, it's, it's a subtledifference, but it's incredibly
important, especially when youstart scaling up in your career
and you're now instead ofmanaging three or four people,
now you're managing 20, 30, ahundred, right.
Because there's no way to dothat by personality because
everyone will have their ownopinion about you.
DJ Costantino (19:07):
Right.
But, you know, I mean youropinion, I think of the
standards, you know, if youdon't, if you don't like how
things are, are run that way,you know, it's a little bit
different.
It's not
Adam Lamb (19:15):
personal.
That's right.
The standards arenon-negotiable.
This comes in directly to, youknow, the work that I'm doing
right now.
And especially with Jim Taylorfrom benchmark 60, is that the
only way that a community?
So a bunch of people cometogether to let's say, work in a
kitchen.
That's a crew.
That's a bunch of people whohave their own individual
motivations around being there.
(19:36):
Yeah.
In order to grow that crew intosomething more cohesive, you
have to build them into a team.
My friend Jensen Cummings, loveto say, don't call me, don't
call this.
Don't call us a family.
We're not a family.
Because to be Frank, you know,there were shit that went on in
my family.
They would never allow in aprofessional organization.
Right.
But there's all kinds of, uh,enabling or, you know, walking
(19:56):
away from problems or all thatkind of stuff that happens in a
family where if we're a team, westand for one another.
Right now the deeper cut of thatis how to grow a community is by
coming together and saying,these are our core values.
Yep.
And, and the organization has toanswer four things.
What's our, what's our foodphilosophy.
Yep.
What's our service pH.
What is our proposition, as faras the customers and what's our
(20:21):
proposition, as far as theemployees are concerned.
Yeah.
So if you can answer all thoseand they must all be answered,
or Mike coaching is always, youknow, you need to come up with
adjectives that elicit some typeof emotional response.
You can't just say, uh, well webelieve in truth, no truth in
what, right.
So it's a deeper cut.
(20:42):
Once you have those establishedfrom a management standpoint,
then there's another meetingwith the associates and say,
okay, so.
What do you guys believe in?
What do you think is important?
Should you be able to be able toraise a hand in a meeting and
not feel like you're gonna get ahead cut off these types of
things, and then there's anegotiation around, okay.
So what do we together standfor?
(21:02):
And the community is alwaysbrought together.
Any type of community is alwaysbrought together by shared
values.
Yeah.
Principles and that kind ofstuff.
Now you've got people who arebought.
Understand what not only themission is because the mission
is always gonna be, you know, toprovide the best service
possible.
But then how do you actually dothat?
So by assembling these piecestogether and agreeing on them
(21:26):
or.
Let's say there's somebody whocan't agree.
Can we at least come toconsensus?
Right.
That it would be a good thing ifwe can do this.
exactly.
But at least, at least, at leastnow they've, they've had a
voice.
Yeah.
They've had an opportunity to,to speak their mind, which are
all valuable because maybesomeone comes up with something
(21:46):
that, oh shit.
That's right.
Oh my God.
Let me put that.
So, um, that's how I envisionfocusing on the internal
community.
Just as much as focusing on theexternal community that comes in
and pays their money.
DJ Costantino (22:00):
Absolutely.
And I think that's like thebiggest focus, you know, of your
work.
And I think maybe where theindustry needs to probably put
in the most work.
I think that's of those fourthings that you've mentioned,
that's probably the mostneglected part of the industry.
Yeah.
So, so curious.
Adam Lamb (22:18):
They call them value propositions.
Right.
So right.
All of a sudden I saw startseeing this thing pop up called
an EMP, which is an employeeproposition.
Okay, cool.
I get that right now.
They're using a little bitdifferent lingo, but it's the
same thing.
And I started actually years agoby creating a covenant, just a
written document that goes inwith their onboarding paperwork.
(22:40):
That specifically relates whatthe company.
Is offering in exchange or whatthe associate, the employee or
whomever is willing to provide.
And if there's anything thatgets to be talked about, that's
the time to talk about itbecause we wanna make sure that
everybody's clear that listen,we're gonna provide you, uh,
clear and consistent.
(23:00):
Feedback.
We're gonna make sure that youhave clear and consistent
communication.
We're gonna make sure that youhave a clear career path.
We're gonna make sure that youknow, where you need to go in
order to get to a particularposition.
Like one of my favorite jobs toask, or one of my favorite
questions to ask during a jobinterview is like, okay, so you
got this job.
Where what's your next job?
(23:21):
What kind of skills do you thinkare necessary there?
And let's work on those so thatwhen you leave here, you are
fully skilled in order to beable to get that position.
I mean, that's pretty juicy byanyone's standards, right?
Yeah.
To have someone admitted to yourown growth.
Yeah, absolutely.
DJ Costantino (23:35):
Cause I mean, that's acknowledging what's
gonna, this.
Person's not gonna stay with youforever.
I mean, maybe they will.
Right.
But that's, I mean, what's thechance of that, but if you can
make that positive impact onthem and kind of, uh, appreciate
the time that you have together.
I think that's really valuable.
So, so you're advocating for,you know, a lot of people say,
you know, bring your core valuesand tell them to your team, but
you're advocating that this issomething you really need to be
(23:56):
developing with the teamtogether.
Not, you know, handing it downfrom, you know, your, you know,
ivory tower.
Here's our, you know, here's ourstone.
These are our commandments.
Adam Lamb (24:08):
I did that.
I did that at my last position,which I was the director of
dining for, uh, an upscale, uh,retirement community here in
Asheville, North Carolina, whereI live.
Uh, and we had about a year towork on this before the pandemic
hit.
And then the shutdown.
Yep.
Which I, I don't know of anybodyelse that was managing the
expectation of 650 residents,all of whom were at a hundred
(24:28):
percent positivity of being ableto catch the disease.
But the other 120 staff that youknow, were coming in and out of
the facility.
So that was.
That was quite a time, but youknow, I went to this program out
in Vegas, uh, called money andyou, it was fantastic.
I knew it was gonna be a goodprogram or good training because
the first two days I wascompletely pissed off and then
(24:49):
on the third day I startedcrying and then by the fourth
day, the trainer was up to me.
You go kind of like, ha gotcha.
Didn't I right.
But, but I created all theserules based on a win-win
psychology came in, had a bigmeeting, had everybody sit down.
Okay.
So these are the things, da, da.
and for a lot of the employeeswho had been there for a long
time, because they have historywith say HR or upper management,
(25:14):
you know, some of those opinionsweren't changing because again,
I didn't bring everybodyunderneath the tent to say,
okay.
So what do you think isimportant?
Because unless we're bringingthem into the conversation, then
it's just, uh, it's, uh, it's anecho.
Where, you know, I'm convincedda, da, da, and even some of my
managers were not convincedbecause of where they were on
(25:35):
their maturation in theprofession.
Right.
You know, to be, to be a matureprofessional, to be able to
model that in front of everybodyelse also means that you get to
model that to other managers asa way of them having a clear
example of what that looks like.
Yeah.
Because most of my life, most ofmy career, the people I worked
(25:57):
with were.
To put it bluntly immature,meaning they'd never gone
through a Rite of passage fromchildhood to adulthood.
So they thought a lot of thestuff that was going on as a
child, a lot of those behaviorswere still gonna carry them
forth into their careers.
And for some of them who werefrankly, to put a.
(26:17):
Label on it, hot shit.
Yeah.
That worked for a while untilthey're acting out, you know,
their drug abuse, their, their,their alcoholism, you know, that
started affecting the operation.
And then the owners are like,oh, oh, well, we can't have
that.
Right.
But they're enabled all the wayup to that.
Right, right.
Until they step boundaries, asopposed to.
(26:37):
Not avoiding the situation andsitting somebody down saying,
listen, you have the potentialto do some really, really great
stuff here, but you really gottaget your fucking shit together.
right.
DJ Costantino (26:45):
Exactly.
Not, not waiting until it notwaiting until it's like too, too
late.
And I think that can apply toreally anything, you know, maybe
it's someone that has, you know,attitude issues or, or anger
problems, or like you mentioneddrug edition, but I think that's
a good segue into, into kind ofwhat I want to get into next,
which is.
I think we talked about some ofthe strategies a little bit on
how to engage your staff alittle bit more, but, um, what
(27:07):
are some of the more interestingmaybe tactics or, or, you know,
examples of things you're seeingpeople doing in the restaurant
business to create a betteremployee environment?
Adam Lamb (27:18):
Well, that's, what's so interesting right now,
because there is, like youmentioned before, there's so
much conversation going on rightnow and we just gotta continue
to beat the.
Yeah.
And to your point, I started tohave this worry that there is a
lot of talk and there's not alot of action.
Yeah.
So as part of the podcast, Iinterviewed, uh, quite a few
chefs and also leaders in theirfield of, you know, relationship
(27:41):
and stress and all thisdifferent stuff.
And I talked to some chefs whoare out there doing something
that are completely different.
I'll mention this oneorganization where the guy went
to.
Seven different banks to get hisrestaurant funded.
They all told him no, becausethey couldn't understand his,
they couldn't understand his Pand L because what he was,
because what he was saying islike, I need a hundred dollars
(28:02):
from every person that comes inthe restaurant.
Right.
And it's basically an eightcourse tasting menu.
Yeah.
And if he can get a hundreddollars out of every cuz they'd
ask him, well, what's your foodcost?
He's like, I Don.
What's your labor cost?
I don't know, but if I can get ahundred dollars from every
person who walks in, then whathe ended up doing is creating a
(28:23):
profit sharing environment.
Whereas dishwasher makes$45,000a year.
Right?
Right.
So it's like managing the topline as opposed to the bottom
line.
And I know that there are othersout there who are talking about,
we have to take the entire P andL and flip it on its head.
As in, instead of registeringlabor as a cost of doing
business, it's actually now onthe asset line.
(28:46):
Because what you're doing isevery dollar that you're
spending actually increases thevalue of the associates as
opposed to making it a cost tothe business.
Right.
So it, it throws the calculationoff a little bit.
Um, another one that, uh, Jimand I are using, and some of the
other partners for benchmark 60are using a productivity metric
(29:07):
in order to guard againstburnout and actually manage
workload proactively.
So.
Operators can understand thatthere's there there's money
being left on the table and thatthey can use that money and
reinvest it back into theiroperation around, you know, some
of the, some of the hard goodsor hard benefits.
(29:30):
There's still so manyrestaurants that don't offer
healthcare or mental healthcare.
One of the things that theretirement community that I
worked at was a very, verysimple thing.
They contracted with a localmental health counselor.
They created this program bywhich if anybody in the company
wanted to go have a session,here's the phone number you book
(29:53):
it it's completely anonymous.
All HR knows is they get aninvoice for this hour session or
a couple hour session orwhatever, but it gives, it gives
the associate an idea that a,someone cares enough to actually
offer this B that they'recompletely anonymous and it
doesn't have any blow.
On their position or authoritywithin the company.
(30:16):
And it's such a simple thing todo.
Yeah.
Uh, I was talking to somebodythe other day who said that they
were talking to a restauranttour who had an employee who was
basically down to, I have a, mycat's sick.
I need to either take care of mycat or take care of myself.
So they opted to spend theiravailable cash on the.
(30:39):
So now this company offersinsurance to every single one of
their employees.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't know about you,but I have a daughter who spent
$7,000 and, and not threw away,but made the decision not to be
in relationship with herboyfriend at the time, because
the cat meant more to her inthat moment.
And there's, I, I think there'sso many other people out there
(31:01):
that are kind of in this kind ofunspoken dilemma.
I mean, it's I, the old trope.
The age of trying to figure outwhether they're gonna pay rent
or buy food, but there's a lotof folks who are in those kind
of dire, um, dire questionsabout how they're actually gonna
live their lives.
So there's really, reallyinteresting stuff to do.
(31:22):
Jim was able to work with arestaurant company where the
president said, you know, mypeople work so damn hard.
I don't want them to have to gohome and do laundry or clean
their houses.
Right.
So Jim was able to show him howhe could.
Actually create a subcompany andnow they do, uh, I think it's
two hours every day of cleaninghouse and doing laundry for all
(31:44):
their 60 employees.
Wow.
I mean, that's intangible to beable to, I know on the rare
occasion that we get somebody tocome over and, and take care of
the house, how good it feels tobe able to walk in a house and
it be clean.
Not to know that you've these 12other things that you have to
take care of.
Right.
So I think a lot of it has to dowith putting ourselves squarely
(32:05):
in the feet and being exactlywhere our associates are not up
here looking down, but actuallybeing in their shoes and like,
what are the things that they'restruggling with every day?
Yeah,
DJ Costantino (32:15):
absolutely.
Also to walk in and know it'sclean and you'd had nothing to
do with it is also, oh God,
Adam Lamb (32:20):
what a gift.
what a gift.
I mean, if it was, if it was me,you know, I'd go to the wall for
this person, this employer whomade this possible, I'm not
jumping ship for quarter, right?
Cause no one else is doing righthere in Asheville.
The, in order to make a livingwage here in Asheville for
hospitality workers, I thinkit's got, I think the.
(32:42):
This is by MassachusettsInstitute of technology.
MIT has a living wage calculatorthat you can find online.
And I highly recommend anyoperator in any city.
Be able to go and click intothis, because if you really want
to know where your people areat, just check this out, because
it said that for a singleparent, with one child, they
needed to make$38,000 a year,right.
(33:03):
Just, just to get by.
And that's why most everybodywho works in Nashville doesn't
live in Nashville.
They're all kind of in outlyingareas.
Now there's this hugeinfrastructure, uh, works going
on to widen the roads, which hasgone on for a year and should go
on for another year.
But it's just like, it's notnecessary.
I mean, there are ways ofachieving the same result
(33:24):
without giving up margin,without giving up profit and
read this the other day.
And it just hit me so hard.
No one is gonna believe a thingyou say until they believe that
you care.
Mm.
And I was like, yeah.
No wonder so much of what I'vesaid during my career has fallen
on deaf ears because a, theydidn't believe that I cared.
(33:44):
I mean, I always thought that,you know, I put my ass on the
line for every single one ofthem, but I know for a fact,
there were a couple times whereI had to think about my own
future and my own needs, asopposed to those of the crew.
You know, when the boss says,Hey, listen, you gotta cut four
or it's gonna be you.
Yeah.
I mean, how do you stand infront of that?
(34:05):
So this is where it comes backdown to, you know, if I'm unsure
of what my core value is, thenit's easy for me to make a bad
choice in that matter.
Even if it means, you know, forme to stand for my people means
that, okay, I'll take the hit.
I got a little bit of savings.
I can cover it.
I'll go home and explain it tomy wife or other jobs out there.
(34:28):
It's just, and how do youactually make those values real
in the day to day?
Yeah.
So one of the biggest issuesthat I see happening is, um, or
one of the biggest challenges.
So before I did the podcast, Iinterviewed about 60 chefs and
to a person, one of the thingsthat they brought up was a
(34:49):
feeling of not beingappreciated, whether that being
from a boss who doesn't reallycare about what they're going
through or customers.
Are trying to beat them down ontheir prices.
If they're a caterer, you know?
Yeah.
They're like, this is my, thisis the price and they're well,
can't you do so to a personthey're feeling unappreciated
now, to me that opens up twodifferent avenues.
(35:11):
Number one, there is the abilityor the opportunity to do some
coaching with them so that theyrealize that if they look for
anyone else to give them thatsense of satisfaction from the
inside, then that hole willnever be.
As I know from dancing in thedark with the devil, you'll go
almost anywhere in order to fillthat hole to feel like you're
(35:32):
good.
I mean, the business basedaround instant gratification
plate goes up in the window, youknow, it's great.
You're waiting for the customerthat he say, da, da.
And it's all about this instantfeedback loop.
While the more I have been ableto basically delay gratification
and understand that the workthat needs to happen in the mid.
(35:53):
Then I've gotten a lot betterabout, or more resilient about
who people think I'm doing agreat job or not.
The other part of it is tocreate a feedback loop within
the organization ofcommunication.
And I'm a big fan of daily orshift meetings.
Yeah.
And those shift meetings cantake on a different tenure.
There's an organization called,um, I got ear back mm-hmm and
(36:17):
basically their shift meetingsare around how everybody's
feeling.
There's a shoebox at the doorand these little smiley faces,
you know, one is, one is, one isstandard.
One is smiling, the other one'smad and everybody signs one of
those and puts it in the box.
And right before the shiftmeeting, that box is open and
they say, okay, so here's thetemperature of the restaurant
right now.
(36:38):
Some of you more of you, the notare feeling pretty bad.
So let's talk about that for asecond.
Instead of, instead of like,Doing a standard set up, which
is like, okay, we've got 340 onthe books.
Uh, these are our specials andbreak, you know, that's, that's
not being informed in any way ofwhat's happening in the lives
(37:00):
and emotionality of theassociates.
Now there might be some peoplewho say, well, dude, they're
doing a job.
What do we care?
Because in the end you don'twanna be the only one on the
line.
Right?
DJ Costantino (37:14):
What do you want someone to care too?
Adam Lamb (37:15):
Like, yeah, you.
again, it gets back to the it'snothing that we didn't already
want.
Right.
So why can't we make adifferentiation between
leadership and mentorship andbecome the mentor that we always
wanted and give that first, givethat sense of security, that
sense of safety.
That sense of, uh, I don't wannasay motivation, but that, that
(37:38):
your lives have a purposebecause.
MAs Well's pyramid or a pyramidof hierarchy, you know, of human
meaning purpose is way up there,man.
And if someone's just coming into just fill the shift, you're
never, ever gonna find that themproducing anything better or
more, it's always gonna be thesame speed.
DJ Costantino (37:58):
Absolutely.
And I think, you know, not to,not to.
discount any of it, but all ofthis, like for operators, all of
this is not the cost a dime todo
Adam Lamb (38:08):
none of it.
that's, that's the crazy thingabout, so right.
There's there are, so the firstthing to do, if, if someone's
listening to this podcast andthey're like, I, you know,
that's all bullshit.
I, I don't even know where tostart.
I would say go back to yourorganization and look at your
job descriptions and tell me ifthey're tiered.
So if you're in your kitchen, doyou have all cooks?
(38:31):
Or are there hot cooks, coldcooks?
Are there cook one, cook two,cook three.
You know, some of the mostsuccessful hotels are successful
for a reason in that they'vecreated this environment where
if I'm coming in and I'm anapprentice or I'm in a.
Or I'm a cook two, and I wannabecome a cook one.
There's typically some type ofskill set test, whether it's
(38:52):
written or manufactured whereyou gotta break something down
or, or make something doesn'ttake any time to create these,
because all these are online inone form or another, but for an
associate to be able to come inand say, you have a clear career
path here.
If you wanna make it to the topof your game, then this is your,
this is your purpose for thetime being and to your.
(39:13):
Amazon only Amazon's created itsbusiness around.
People got two years and thenthey gotta go.
And in, in some cases they'll,they'll buy'em out at the end of
the two years because mm-hmmthey find that after two years,
there's a direct result aroundenthusiasm and the ability to
get the job done versus theirtenure.
So I'm not saying we should belike Amazon, but the point is.
(39:36):
We need to understand whatpeople want from us so that we
can give that to'em so that wecan get what they want from us
and seems transactional.
It is, but it's also on the wayof building a broader, stronger,
more resilient, equitable, uh,and empowering community.
Because once they get a taste ofwhat that's like, then they know
they can't work for anybodyelse.
(39:57):
Right.
Then they know they have to goand create it on their own.
And we need more restaurant.
More food and beverageoperations that are doing this.
So if we concede that at someparticular point, it's gonna
make it a hell a lot easier downthe road.
Now.
Absolutely.
Some people, you know, there'sthis thing that chefs have about
being hard, right?
(40:17):
Like they love their pain.
They love the shit that theyhave to put up with because it's
like a badge of honor.
And if you're not a chef and youdon't have an apron on, and
you're not actively on a linesomewhere, they'll look at you
like, yeah, Ain't got nothing tosay to me.
I can't tell you how many chefshave come after go.
Like, I didn't know what youwere saying then, man, but, but
(40:39):
thanks.
Thanks.
I really appreciate, you know,the fact that you actually said
something to me because no oneelse was gonna say it.
DJ Costantino (40:45):
So absolutely.
And I think that's, that's apretty good place to kind of tie
things up, but you know, I, I, Ikind of wanna leave you with one
with one last question.
Um, you know, we've covered alot today, but you know, for
maybe an operator who'slistening or, you know, someone
in a leadership.
Um, what's something they cankind of, you know, they turn
this, this episode off, they goback to their restaurant.
They go back to their office,wherever it is.
Mm-hmm um, what's something theycan do immediately to improve
(41:08):
the experience of theiremployees in their restaurant.
Adam Lamb (41:11):
Okay.
Um, so Jensen Cumings has kindof a radical idea that is every
hospitality company, everyrestaurant, every consultant.
Every hotel needs to be ahospitality company and a media
company.
Typically what you'll see onFacebook, uh, is a lot of these
static pictures of plates that,that chefs have created, you
(41:34):
know, it's food porn to Jack offanother chef like, Hey dude,
check this out.
Oh man.
That's great.
Fantastic.
Even though you can't eat it,smell it, which are all the
other.
Right.
But instead of posting, insteadof posting those post short form
videos on every single platformthat you think a potential.
Or a potential guest is, andthose videos can be anything
(41:56):
from your crew laughing whilethey're setting up or walking
them through a certain trainingor whatever, because the fact is
is that if you don't own yournarrative, someone else will.
And that's exactly what happenedduring the shutdown, because big
media got a hold of, oh, itsucks to work in restaurants.
Not only did everybody leave,but nobody wanted to come back.
Absolutely in the time thatthat's provided us, it's
(42:19):
incumbent upon all of us to bandtogether and do what we can in
order to improve our workingenvironments.
Now there's nothing you're goingto be able to do about the
physical plant, right.
But emotionally people will be ahell of a lot more bought into
coming to work.
If they know that someoneappreciates them, it's that.
Absolutely.
DJ Costantino (42:39):
Yeah.
And that's something, um, youknow, not to toot our horn here,
but we've been doing at sevenshifts with our job positions.
You know, every time we post anew job listing, we have the
hiring manager makes a videokind of telling the person about
what the experience would belike.
Yeah.
Shows the office side a littlebit.
I know.
I'm sure.
You know, um, Sean Walsh at Cbarbecue when he is hiring, gets
(42:59):
up on the roof of his restaurantwith a.
So, you know, come, come applyhere.
I think that kind of shows you,uh, a lot about the type of
person that would do that.
Right?
Absolutely.
Those all positive things, allpositive things.
Adam Lamb (43:10):
Yeah.
I, I there's, like you said,there's so much that can be done
without spending a lot of money.
You know, the other thing Iwould suggest for an operator to
that can do something right.
When he walks back, he or shewalks back into our operation is
to spend some time and just bewith the associate, see for a
chef.
It's easy because if you got.
(43:30):
Prepping in the background.
Or doing some prep, you canalways slide up a cutting board.
Don't say anything, slide up acutting board, get your towel,
your Sandy bucket, and then juststart doing some work.
And you don't have to sayanything to'em.
There's something that happenspsychologically.
When people are side by side,shoulder to shoulder that opens
up a conversation that might notnecessarily happen any other
way.
(43:50):
Yeah, very often my wife and Iare driving in the car and we
have.
Extraordinary conversations.
Well, it actually comes from thebody position because if you're
sitting across from one anotheror standing across from one
another, it, it forms aconfrontational di and that's
not what you want.
You want people to be able tojust kind of open up and start
talking, rolling silverware, goover and start rolling
silverware with somebody, youknow, all these things in order
(44:13):
to not only them feel like youare with them.
Physically, but emotionally aswell.
DJ Costantino (44:21):
Very cool.
And with that, I think, um, it'sa nice little bow to put on
everything, but for folks thatare looking for some more, where
can they find you and what
Adam Lamb (44:28):
you're doing?
Sure.
Uh, I'm on LinkedIn at, uh, letme see.
Adam Lamb.
Uh, I'm on Facebook at Adam Muh, you can catch the podcast at
chef life, radio dot.
Or available on wherever you getyour podcasts and you can email
me directly at Adam chef life,radio.com.
(44:51):
Very
DJ Costantino (44:51):
cool, Adam, thank you so much for coming on the
show today.
Adam Lamb (44:54):
Dominic.
Thank you so very much.
I, I, I'm still looking forwardto what you guys are rolling
out.
I think the product isfantastic.
The support is wonderful and youguys are incorporating a lot of
these things that we're talkingabout, like communication and
things of that.
So yep.
You guys get it?
I yeah.
Behind you a hundred
DJ Costantino (45:08):
percent.
Absolutely.
Thank you.
And a couple names you drive JimTaylor.
We have an episode with Jim.
Um, Jim was on the podcast backin April and then Jensen
Cummings as well was on thepodcast back last year.
So I'll put the link to thoseepisodes in the description as
well.
So you can check those out, butAdam, you have a fantastic rest
of your day.
Thanks
Adam Lamb (45:24):
you too.
Take care.
You bet.
DJ Costantino (45:27):
Thanks again for checking out the restaurant
growth podcast presented byseven shifts.
We're so grateful to ourlisteners and we'd love to hear
from all of you.
Send us an email to podcastseven shift.com and check us out
on social we're at seven shiftson all platforms.
Don't forget to hit thatsubscribe button and we'll see
you next week.
Hey everybody.
What is going on?
My name is DJ and you are backwith the restaurant growth
podcast by seven shifts on thisshow, we speak with the best
minds in the restaurant businessto give you big insights and new
ideas on how to help yourrestaurants grow.
Adam Lamb joins us today.
He's a chef with 30 years ofexperience and the host of both
chef life, radio and line checkpodcast, where he helps chefs
(00:21):
enjoy their career withoutsacrificing their health and
wellbeing.
We got to chatting about whenAdam realized that the
restaurant business needed tochange what the new generation
of chefs want.
And it's not all that differentfrom what the other generations
wanted and ways to make yourrestaurant a great place to
work.
So without further ado here isAdam.
Hey
Adam Lamb (00:39):
Adam, how are you today?
I am.
Excellent.
Thanks Dominic.
I really appreciate you.
Uh, having me on the show.
Really excited.
DJ Costantino (00:46):
Absolutely.
Yeah, me too.
Thanks for, thanks for takingthe time out to come on.
You know, I, I could do an introof you, but I think you'd
probably do a little bit of abetter job than me.
So tell us a little bit aboutyourself, how you got started in
the restaurant.
Adam Lamb (00:58):
Sure.
My name is Adam Lamb.
Currently I run two podcasts.
One is called chef life radio,and then one is called the line
check.
And just recently I haverepositioned my coaching and
consulting business,specifically around community
communication and culture withinthe hospitality industry.
You know, I started.
In the industry, like many of usdo, you know, I was looking for
(01:20):
a part-time job while I was inhigh school and started washing
dishes at, uh, the localrestaurant, the big wheel in
Hammond, Indiana.
The reason I went there isbecause my dad who was a college
professor would go there everymorning for breakfast and
sometimes go at lunch betweenclasses.
And so I think part of it waswanting to be closer to him,
even though that didn'tnecessarily work right.
But I hated the job for like thelongest time I used to take like
(01:43):
the.
Really charred pans and stick'emup in the popcorn ceiling, cuz I
didn't really wanna work on'em.
Uh, until one Friday night I waswalking past the kitchen and I
just kind of caught something,caught me outta the corner of my
eye.
And I looked into the kitchenand there were two women that
worked together.
One was a large woman.
Her name was AR Telia white.
She had a gold tooth right inthe front of her mouth.
And uh, she used to sit there inthe window and talk to all the
(02:06):
customers and the other one, I,I never got her name, but she.
As cold and severe as art TEIAwas warm and welcoming.
And what happened was is what Isaw was this incredible dance
that they were doing completelyunspoken.
They weren't talking to oneanother, but it was like a
ballet that was happening infront of my eyes.
And.
(02:26):
Being an artist from way back,everything that was going on,
the pans, clacking, the steam,the smoke, they were just doing
this thing between them.
That just transfixed me and I,wow.
I liken it to what's called thedream of the dance, like how
good it can be when everythingworks.
Right?
Yeah.
And from then on, you know, Idon't know whatever that is, but
I gotta get something.
(02:46):
Yeah,
DJ Costantino (02:47):
absolutely.
Um, so where did you go go fromthere?
You know, you kind of, I thinkmaybe that, that seems like the
moment where you maybe fell inlove with the, with the business
or, you know yeah.
Maybe that kind of set you downthe path that you, that you
took.
Did you go to culinary school?
Did you start working inrestaurants and what, what was
the next step
Adam Lamb (03:03):
for you?
Yeah, I didn't go to culinaryschool, um, to start off with, I
kind of bopped around locallywhere I lived just right outside
of Chicago and Chicago at thattime was a huge Mecca for a lot
of, uh, old school, Italianrestaurants and the scene just
kind of blowing up there.
And so I thought if I could justget up to Chicago.
Yeah.
I could like make away.
(03:24):
I tried to get out of thebusiness and do other things.
You know, I sold clothes, I soldshoes.
I tried to do other things.
And yet the business just keptcalling me back.
I felt like you.
Part of the mafia, you know,they just, as soon as I out it
pulls me back, absolutely.
I got as far as, uh, a countryclub.
Okay.
Um, outside of Chicago and Icouldn't necessarily see any way
(03:45):
to make that jump by the way.
That was the very first time Iworked with a chef.
Okay.
Uh, and, um, it was a woman.
and she visited upon me almostevery single indignation and
slight that had VI visited uponher in her career.
So I became like the virtualwhipping boy for right, for to
(04:07):
take all the crap that she hadbeen dealt.
And I, right.
Didn't even really didn't reallypiss me off.
I just kind of, it just gave mean aha as to.
What women in the industry hadto go through at that particular
time?
Absolutely.
And so I decided to go in themilitary.
My dad thought that was thegreatest thing in the world.
You know, here, Adam, you'refinally taking control of your
own life.
I'm like dad, they, they teachyou to full underwear in four
(04:28):
squares.
Like that's not.
DJ Costantino (04:32):
The illusion of control made.
Adam Lamb (04:33):
Right?
and if anybody who knows meknows that I broke against any
kind of authority, always hadkind of a rebellious nature.
So that was like the weirdestchoice for me to make.
But I thought perhaps because Ihad some cooking ability, they
would put me in a culinaryschool and I would end up
cooking for, you know, generalor whatever.
Right.
(04:53):
As it turned out, uh, as soon asI graduated basic training and
then went to Denver Lowry airforce base for my training.
Specifically for culinary.
They sent me right out to themissile fields in wonderful.
All me South Dakota or air forcebase.
Who's anybody who's ever beenout there that was at the
(05:14):
beginning of, uh, 24 hour B 52bomb alerts.
And that was a big B 52 baseplus it had these missile silos.
So you'd go out there for threedays.
The lieutenants would go down inthe capsule and I'd have to cook
for team 10 guys for three dayson and three days off.
And it was basically what theycalled the foil pack system.
So it was all these foods that Ihad to pull out of the freezer.
(05:36):
People would choose one fromColme and one from colo B.
And the only thing I reallycooked fresh was breakfast,
which remains to this day, myfavorite meal.
But the, you know, the guyswould go out and, you know, kill
coyotes or rattlesnakes orwhatever, and sometimes we'd
bring'em back and, and do agrill out.
Yeah, so it was weird.
It was a weird way.
And when I got outta themilitary, I ended up right back
(05:56):
at the same country club.
Believe it or not just turnedout.
There was a terrible time in theUnited States for recession.
Pittsburgh was a nightmare,which were, was my wife was
from, and, and once we got backto Chicago, I kind of started
jumping geographically, uh, andin complexity to more and more
dynamic restaurants and ended updowntown Chicago.
(06:17):
Opening up the very first Dickas restaurant in 1986, right
after they won the super bowl.
So that was pretty much a crazy,crazy time.
I bet that's
DJ Costantino (06:27):
exciting, Mike, because like his restaurant.
Adam Lamb (06:30):
Yeah.
And that was the eighties,right?
That was the eighties.
Yeah, that was 86 to 90.
Okay.
And then 1990, I found myself,uh, accepting a position in
south Florida where I spent thenext 25 years.
Very cool.
Yeah.
DJ Costantino (06:44):
So, you know, quite the career, quite the
different stops and, andinteresting perspectives.
And I'm sure you've met a lot ofinteresting folks as well, um,
and had a lot of greatexperiences.
You know, something you talk alot about now is kind of how to
have that kitchen career.
Without kind of sacrificing youryourself, you know, your
wellbeing, your mental, physicalhealth, um, because it is a very
(07:05):
challenging industry to work in,you know, was there a specific
moment in your career where youmaybe you realized things have
to change or, you know, I'm, I'mdoing too much to myself.
Was it more of a slow burn orlike, was there like that aha
Adam Lamb (07:18):
moment?
Well, the slow burn occurs kindof like frog in the beaker.
So, yes.
Um, by the way, I never got inan industry to create any
particular type of.
Culinary vision.
Like I didn't have this idea ofthe type of food I was gonna
make.
What really attracted me to theindustry was the people.
Yeah.
Like the community that existedwithin the, uh, within the
(07:39):
operation and, you know, verymuch like Anthony Bordain, you
could.
Has he related, you know, youcould, you could come from
anywhere.
Nobody give his shit, you know,it's Tarian.
So if you can, if you can stillhold down your station and
produce 200 S exactly the waythat they need to be done on a
Sunday, you're in.
Yeah.
So having, having this communityreally meant a lot to me, and
(08:01):
there was a moment.
In the nineties, I was, uh,running a restaurant.
The very first full servicerestaurant in a movie theater,
uh, was right outside of BocaRaton.
It was called, uh, movie copremier.
It was so well done from thepresident's vision of the
company all the way down to, uh,the floor plan, which, you know,
I basically walked in thatbuilding and was still beams.
(08:23):
And, uh, and project managed thething outta the ground.
So I was incredibly emotionallyinvested, but there was one
moment where I walked in thegeneral manager office and I was
just smoking pissed.
I was pissed at everybody.
Yeah.
And so I was back and forth infront of her desk, ranting and
raving about, you know, thisplace sucks.
My cook suck.
My, so chef sucks.
Uh, the people who come heresuck everything and she just
(08:44):
kind of sat there with a smirkon her face.
And then she, till I wascompletely outta gas, and then
she said, but Adam, don't, yousee the God in what you do?
And I'm like, what?
Like, what do you mean, God, yougotta be.
And she said, okay, so you go tothe gas station.
Now you pay at the pump.
You don't even go inside.
You go to the bank, pay the ATM.
You don't even go inside.
Yeah.
In our current culture, there'sless and less opportunity for
(09:07):
people to interact.
She said, what you do providesan opportunity for people to
come around a table.
Something that they probablyhaven't done in a long time and
be in relationship with oneanother.
Right.
She.
Can't you see, you know, howsacred that is.
Mm.
And I walked away from thatmeeting kind of scratching my
head and going, well, maybe I'vebeen thinking about this overall
yeah.
(09:28):
Not, not that I providedanything that was particularly
holy in that moment.
I mean, right.
A lot of are pizzas, Caesarsalads.
Great, great steaks pastes.
I mean, we did a very, very highquality job, but I didn't see it
as anything more than somethingto survive.
Right.
And I realized at that momentthat what I brought to the
(09:49):
operation, uh, as a leader wasimmediately taken on by
everybody else.
So if I was in a shitty mood,everybody else is in a shitty
mood.
They get their heads down.
They it's all asses and elbowsand they're working really,
really hard.
But if I come in there andpositive, Attitude.
Right.
Then all of a sudden people arepicking up on me because they're
so emotionally keyed to theleader position that they, uh,
(10:11):
subconsciously start pickingthat up.
And that's when I realized thatI had an obligation far more
into my staff than I did to thecustomers.
And that's when things startedreally changing.
Yeah.
And.
Not to put, to find a point onit.
It's also when I stoppedbelieving my own bullshit and
realize that I, as a person, asa human being, as a man had my
own work to do.
(10:31):
Yeah.
And if I couldn't get that stuffdone, then it wouldn't matter.
Goddamn thing.
What happened inside the shop?
And do
DJ Costantino (10:36):
you feel like maybe the way you were at that
time was, was learned or, orinfluenced by the leaders that
you had had?
You know, you mentioned, youknow, your first chef kind of
put, put a lot on you mm-hmmthat was unfair.
And I'm sure what was put onthem was unfair as well.
Mm-hmm and that kind of likebegets, uh, you know, a big
cycle of, of kind of negativity.
Adam Lamb (10:55):
Yeah.
I think, um, one of the biggestlies.
We took on.
And I say we, as the generationof chefs that I came up with was
that because it was done to us,that's, that's the way things
were done and that's how weneeded to treat others.
Right.
So, because we were shamed and,and I like to say, um, trained
shamed and conditioned to be acertain way, to be tough, to
(11:17):
suck it up sunshine, to nevercomplain, to never want anything
outside the box, because.
To be Frank.
One of the things that one ofthe other pivotal moments for me
was when the millennials werestarting to come into the
workplace, I wrote an articlecalled are the millennials
making the hospital industryworse?
Yeah.
Uh, because a lot of people werecomplaining about the fact that,
(11:38):
oh, they want this, they wantthat da, da, da.
And upon reflection, I realizedthat they only wanted what we
wanted at one point in time.
Right.
They had.
Minerals to stand up and say,this is this, these are my
values.
And this matters to me.
Whereas when I was coming up, Ilooked around and realized
there's no point in me evenspeaking my mind or asking for
(11:59):
what I wanted, because I justknew it was never gonna come.
Right.
So for a lot of the older guys,I think, or the older chefs
pissed them off because here,these guys are gonna get away
with what they actually wanted.
And so this whole conditioninghappened.
On the line elbow, elbow.
So I'm a big fan of sayingculture starts right.
Where you're at elbow to elbowwith the next person.
(12:20):
Yeah.
And if there's not an, ifthere's not a clear intention
about what that culture shouldbe, then by default, it becomes
kind of, uh, Lord of the flies,so to speak mm-hmm So, because
someone had been trained shamedand conditioned, they're gonna
turn around and train shamecondition.
right.
One, one of my ver I actuallyheard my very best.
(12:41):
In a kitchen, say this to one ofhis line cooks about, um, about
the fact that they had no honeymustard sauce.
On their station.
Uh, and he said, I'm gonna cometo your house.
I'm gonna burn it down and I'mgonna salt the earth so that
nothing ever grows back, youknow, kind of like a biblical
proportions right on the line infront of everybody.
And while everybody's just kindof looking down, this person has
(13:02):
got their eyes big as plates,and I'm like, uh, man, there's,
there's gotta be a better way todo this.
Gotta be a better way to dothis.
Yeah.
DJ Costantino (13:10):
Yeah.
And I think too, like that,just, that makes me think of
like a hell's kitchen kind ofthing.
Yeah.
It's like people would, youknow, that's what they think.
It's, it's kind of funny, butit's like, is this funny?
Adam Lamb (13:20):
Like right, exactly.
I mean, I think, you know,Gordon Ramsey has come, you
know, he developed a shtick thatwe sell to the networks and he's
created this empire of his, um,but it's predicated on a lie,
which is, you know, you cangreat and bring down other
people.
And very often the people thatneed to do that are the ones who
(13:41):
weren't feeling secure withinthemselves.
So Absolut.
First thing I needed to do wasactually get clear on what I
brought to the table and what Icould do very, very well and
then look around and see wherethose complimentary pieces were
and invite them in underneaththe tent.
And not to think that there wasa time in my career where I
could not say, I didn't knowanything.
Right.
(14:02):
I had a, I had a food andbeverage manager who came and
said, okay, I'm gonna need thisreport on Monday in Excel
format.
It was a Friday afternoon.
Right.
I said, uh, I don't know.
He says, well, you better learn.
Right?
So I sat in my office for 36hours and basically taught
myself Excel in order to producethis document, because it was
culinary career suicide to admitthat, you know, you didn't know
(14:24):
how to pull sugar, or you didn'tknow how to peel a Tenderloin or
any of these things.
Whereas now a smart leader knowsthat he doesn't have to have all
those specific skill sets, buthe has to be able to, you know,
pull together a team.
That has those full complimentsand learn from one another
because that's really where thejuice is.
Right?
DJ Costantino (14:45):
Exactly.
Yeah.
And like making and you have tounderstand, I think, and, and
this is beyond the kitchenthough.
Um, but especially in thekitchen, as a leader,
understanding what yourweaknesses are, right?
Yep.
And like, if you, you know, youcan't be good at everything.
Right.
And I don't think you can't justsay, oh, well, these are my
weaknesses.
Let me let.
Hire people to, or find peoplethat, that make up for them.
(15:05):
Um, but to a certain extent, youhave to know that, you know,
this is just something I'm notgonna be good at, or maybe not
my natural inclination and Ineed help and find someone that
can help with that.
Adam Lamb (15:14):
One of the, one of the most powerful books I read
just in the last year is thisbook called who not how it's
based on Dan Sullivan's work,strategic coach.
But basically it says that assoon as you start thinking about
how you're gonna get somethingdone, That should be an instant
indication that you need to finda who to get it done.
So when you start, when youstart looking at your crew,
(15:37):
like, how the hell am I gonnaget this done?
Because again, as the apexpredator and the very small
aquarium as the executive chefor the general manager, the
pressure is on you in order tocreate the results.
Right?
So very often I would take thaton as I need to figure out how
to do.
And for a long time, I wascompletely not interested in, in
(15:57):
anybody else's solutions becauseit had to come from me, uh, for
good or ill.
And to be honest, there were acouple times where it fell
squarely on my shoulders and Ihad to take the hit and, you
know, find another job.
But, you know, thinking thatway, believing that way for me,
shut off.
So many other possibilities thatI think now exist.
(16:17):
In a lot more open landscapewhere people can put their hands
up and say, okay, I don't knowhow to get this done, but we
together have to get this done.
Anybody got any ideas?
Right?
Which is also one of the kind ofmain drivers of building this
internal community of having.
Transparency vulnerability infront of your crew, you know,
using your experiences to allowthem to speak about theirs.
(16:38):
Because very often nobody'sgonna put their hand up.
If they think they're gonna gettheir heads chopped off, that's
the right.
That's the poppy syndrome and itstill exists.
You know, when I say mygeneration of chefs, there's
plenty of chefs out there, youngand old who are manag.
Under this idea that it's gottabe their personality as opposed
to standards.
So there is still a lot for alot of us to learn.
(17:02):
Absolutely.
DJ Costantino (17:02):
What do you mean by that?
Like personality instead ofstandards, like, did this person
needs, I'm not gonna get like,you know what I mean?
Adam Lamb (17:13):
It's, it's, it's a, it's a perfectly fair question.
Yeah.
So typically, and I'm not gonnapaint with a broad brush, so
I'll just speak about myexperiences when I would hire
people.
Very often I would hire peoplewho, who mirrored my thoughts,
my beliefs, my actions.
And so I'm using my personalityin order to motivate or inspire
(17:35):
them.
Right.
As, as opposed to hiring a broadclass.
Of individuals who are skilledat certain positions, almost
like putting together abasketball team or a football
team, you know, who's gonna playin what position and then using
the standards of the operationsin order to manage.
Right.
Okay.
So you you've been late twicethis week.
All right.
So you remember when we didorientation and you signed off
(17:59):
on all these papers, one ofwhich was, you know, you
promised not to be late, right.
Or have excessive tar, do youremember signing.
Uh, yeah, I remember so.
Okay.
So then is there anything I needto understand about what's going
on this week?
That you've been late twice?
Like giving them an opportunityto talk about what's going on
outside of it.
(18:19):
And then if they're like, no, alot of times what ends up
happening is they'll just cop toit and like, yeah, I fucked up.
I'm sorry.
And that's an opportunity forthem to become more mature and
own their actions.
The repercussions that come outof those actions, because
ultimately what you're doing isimpacting the people that work
next to you because now theygotta take on extra work.
(18:40):
So that's what I mean aboutmanaging by standards versus
dude, what's up, man?
You know, you're letting medown.
Well, you're not letting medown.
You're right,
DJ Costantino (18:48):
right.
Yeah.
Adam Lamb (18:48):
Come on man.
Like.
It's it's, it's, it's a subtledifference, but it's incredibly
important, especially when youstart scaling up in your career
and you're now instead ofmanaging three or four people,
now you're managing 20, 30, ahundred, right.
Because there's no way to dothat by personality because
everyone will have their ownopinion about you.
DJ Costantino (19:07):
Right.
But, you know, I mean youropinion, I think of the
standards, you know, if youdon't, if you don't like how
things are, are run that way,you know, it's a little bit
different.
It's not
Adam Lamb (19:15):
personal.
That's right.
The standards arenon-negotiable.
This comes in directly to, youknow, the work that I'm doing
right now.
And especially with Jim Taylorfrom benchmark 60, is that the
only way that a community?
So a bunch of people cometogether to let's say, work in a
kitchen.
That's a crew.
That's a bunch of people whohave their own individual
motivations around being there.
(19:36):
Yeah.
In order to grow that crew intosomething more cohesive, you
have to build them into a team.
My friend Jensen Cummings, loveto say, don't call me, don't
call this.
Don't call us a family.
We're not a family.
Because to be Frank, you know,there were shit that went on in
my family.
They would never allow in aprofessional organization.
Right.
But there's all kinds of, uh,enabling or, you know, walking
(19:56):
away from problems or all thatkind of stuff that happens in a
family where if we're a team, westand for one another.
Right now the deeper cut of thatis how to grow a community is by
coming together and saying,these are our core values.
Yep.
And, and the organization has toanswer four things.
What's our, what's our foodphilosophy.
Yep.
What's our service pH.
What is our proposition, as faras the customers and what's our
(20:21):
proposition, as far as theemployees are concerned.
Yeah.
So if you can answer all thoseand they must all be answered,
or Mike coaching is always, youknow, you need to come up with
adjectives that elicit some typeof emotional response.
You can't just say, uh, well webelieve in truth, no truth in
what, right.
So it's a deeper cut.
(20:42):
Once you have those establishedfrom a management standpoint,
then there's another meetingwith the associates and say,
okay, so.
What do you guys believe in?
What do you think is important?
Should you be able to be able toraise a hand in a meeting and
not feel like you're gonna get ahead cut off these types of
things, and then there's anegotiation around, okay.
So what do we together standfor?
(21:02):
And the community is alwaysbrought together.
Any type of community is alwaysbrought together by shared
values.
Yeah.
Principles and that kind ofstuff.
Now you've got people who arebought.
Understand what not only themission is because the mission
is always gonna be, you know, toprovide the best service
possible.
But then how do you actually dothat?
So by assembling these piecestogether and agreeing on them
(21:26):
or.
Let's say there's somebody whocan't agree.
Can we at least come toconsensus?
Right.
That it would be a good thing ifwe can do this.
exactly.
But at least, at least, at leastnow they've, they've had a
voice.
Yeah.
They've had an opportunity to,to speak their mind, which are
all valuable because maybesomeone comes up with something
(21:46):
that, oh shit.
That's right.
Oh my God.
Let me put that.
So, um, that's how I envisionfocusing on the internal
community.
Just as much as focusing on theexternal community that comes in
and pays their money.
DJ Costantino (22:00):
Absolutely.
And I think that's like thebiggest focus, you know, of your
work.
And I think maybe where theindustry needs to probably put
in the most work.
I think that's of those fourthings that you've mentioned,
that's probably the mostneglected part of the industry.
Yeah.
So, so curious.
Adam Lamb (22:18):
They call them value propositions.
Right.
So right.
All of a sudden I saw startseeing this thing pop up called
an EMP, which is an employeeproposition.
Okay, cool.
I get that right now.
They're using a little bitdifferent lingo, but it's the
same thing.
And I started actually years agoby creating a covenant, just a
written document that goes inwith their onboarding paperwork.
(22:40):
That specifically relates whatthe company.
Is offering in exchange or whatthe associate, the employee or
whomever is willing to provide.
And if there's anything thatgets to be talked about, that's
the time to talk about itbecause we wanna make sure that
everybody's clear that listen,we're gonna provide you, uh,
clear and consistent.
(23:00):
Feedback.
We're gonna make sure that youhave clear and consistent
communication.
We're gonna make sure that youhave a clear career path.
We're gonna make sure that youknow, where you need to go in
order to get to a particularposition.
Like one of my favorite jobs toask, or one of my favorite
questions to ask during a jobinterview is like, okay, so you
got this job.
Where what's your next job?
(23:21):
What kind of skills do you thinkare necessary there?
And let's work on those so thatwhen you leave here, you are
fully skilled in order to beable to get that position.
I mean, that's pretty juicy byanyone's standards, right?
Yeah.
To have someone admitted to yourown growth.
Yeah, absolutely.
DJ Costantino (23:35):
Cause I mean, that's acknowledging what's
gonna, this.
Person's not gonna stay with youforever.
I mean, maybe they will.
Right.
But that's, I mean, what's thechance of that, but if you can
make that positive impact onthem and kind of, uh, appreciate
the time that you have together.
I think that's really valuable.
So, so you're advocating for,you know, a lot of people say,
you know, bring your core valuesand tell them to your team, but
you're advocating that this issomething you really need to be
(23:56):
developing with the teamtogether.
Not, you know, handing it downfrom, you know, your, you know,
ivory tower.
Here's our, you know, here's ourstone.
These are our commandments.
Adam Lamb (24:08):
I did that.
I did that at my last position,which I was the director of
dining for, uh, an upscale, uh,retirement community here in
Asheville, North Carolina, whereI live.
Uh, and we had about a year towork on this before the pandemic
hit.
And then the shutdown.
Yep.
Which I, I don't know of anybodyelse that was managing the
expectation of 650 residents,all of whom were at a hundred
(24:28):
percent positivity of being ableto catch the disease.
But the other 120 staff that youknow, were coming in and out of
the facility.
So that was.
That was quite a time, but youknow, I went to this program out
in Vegas, uh, called money andyou, it was fantastic.
I knew it was gonna be a goodprogram or good training because
the first two days I wascompletely pissed off and then
(24:49):
on the third day I startedcrying and then by the fourth
day, the trainer was up to me.
You go kind of like, ha gotcha.
Didn't I right.
But, but I created all theserules based on a win-win
psychology came in, had a bigmeeting, had everybody sit down.
Okay.
So these are the things, da, da.
and for a lot of the employeeswho had been there for a long
time, because they have historywith say HR or upper management,
(25:14):
you know, some of those opinionsweren't changing because again,
I didn't bring everybodyunderneath the tent to say,
okay.
So what do you think isimportant?
Because unless we're bringingthem into the conversation, then
it's just, uh, it's, uh, it's anecho.
Where, you know, I'm convincedda, da, da, and even some of my
managers were not convincedbecause of where they were on
(25:35):
their maturation in theprofession.
Right.
You know, to be, to be a matureprofessional, to be able to
model that in front of everybodyelse also means that you get to
model that to other managers asa way of them having a clear
example of what that looks like.
Yeah.
Because most of my life, most ofmy career, the people I worked
(25:57):
with were.
To put it bluntly immature,meaning they'd never gone
through a Rite of passage fromchildhood to adulthood.
So they thought a lot of thestuff that was going on as a
child, a lot of those behaviorswere still gonna carry them
forth into their careers.
And for some of them who werefrankly, to put a.
(26:17):
Label on it, hot shit.
Yeah.
That worked for a while untilthey're acting out, you know,
their drug abuse, their, their,their alcoholism, you know, that
started affecting the operation.
And then the owners are like,oh, oh, well, we can't have
that.
Right.
But they're enabled all the wayup to that.
Right, right.
Until they step boundaries, asopposed to.
(26:37):
Not avoiding the situation andsitting somebody down saying,
listen, you have the potentialto do some really, really great
stuff here, but you really gottaget your fucking shit together.
right.
DJ Costantino (26:45):
Exactly.
Not, not waiting until it notwaiting until it's like too, too
late.
And I think that can apply toreally anything, you know, maybe
it's someone that has, you know,attitude issues or, or anger
problems, or like you mentioneddrug edition, but I think that's
a good segue into, into kind ofwhat I want to get into next,
which is.
I think we talked about some ofthe strategies a little bit on
how to engage your staff alittle bit more, but, um, what
(27:07):
are some of the more interestingmaybe tactics or, or, you know,
examples of things you're seeingpeople doing in the restaurant
business to create a betteremployee environment?
Adam Lamb (27:18):
Well, that's, what's so interesting right now,
because there is, like youmentioned before, there's so
much conversation going on rightnow and we just gotta continue
to beat the.
Yeah.
And to your point, I started tohave this worry that there is a
lot of talk and there's not alot of action.
Yeah.
So as part of the podcast, Iinterviewed, uh, quite a few
chefs and also leaders in theirfield of, you know, relationship
(27:41):
and stress and all thisdifferent stuff.
And I talked to some chefs whoare out there doing something
that are completely different.
I'll mention this oneorganization where the guy went
to.
Seven different banks to get hisrestaurant funded.
They all told him no, becausethey couldn't understand his,
they couldn't understand his Pand L because what he was,
because what he was saying islike, I need a hundred dollars
(28:02):
from every person that comes inthe restaurant.
Right.
And it's basically an eightcourse tasting menu.
Yeah.
And if he can get a hundreddollars out of every cuz they'd
ask him, well, what's your foodcost?
He's like, I Don.
What's your labor cost?
I don't know, but if I can get ahundred dollars from every
person who walks in, then whathe ended up doing is creating a
(28:23):
profit sharing environment.
Whereas dishwasher makes$45,000a year.
Right?
Right.
So it's like managing the topline as opposed to the bottom
line.
And I know that there are othersout there who are talking about,
we have to take the entire P andL and flip it on its head.
As in, instead of registeringlabor as a cost of doing
business, it's actually now onthe asset line.
(28:46):
Because what you're doing isevery dollar that you're
spending actually increases thevalue of the associates as
opposed to making it a cost tothe business.
Right.
So it, it throws the calculationoff a little bit.
Um, another one that, uh, Jimand I are using, and some of the
other partners for benchmark 60are using a productivity metric
(29:07):
in order to guard againstburnout and actually manage
workload proactively.
So.
Operators can understand thatthere's there there's money
being left on the table and thatthey can use that money and
reinvest it back into theiroperation around, you know, some
of the, some of the hard goodsor hard benefits.
(29:30):
There's still so manyrestaurants that don't offer
healthcare or mental healthcare.
One of the things that theretirement community that I
worked at was a very, verysimple thing.
They contracted with a localmental health counselor.
They created this program bywhich if anybody in the company
wanted to go have a session,here's the phone number you book
(29:53):
it it's completely anonymous.
All HR knows is they get aninvoice for this hour session or
a couple hour session orwhatever, but it gives, it gives
the associate an idea that a,someone cares enough to actually
offer this B that they'recompletely anonymous and it
doesn't have any blow.
On their position or authoritywithin the company.
(30:16):
And it's such a simple thing todo.
Yeah.
Uh, I was talking to somebodythe other day who said that they
were talking to a restauranttour who had an employee who was
basically down to, I have a, mycat's sick.
I need to either take care of mycat or take care of myself.
So they opted to spend theiravailable cash on the.
(30:39):
So now this company offersinsurance to every single one of
their employees.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't know about you,but I have a daughter who spent
$7,000 and, and not threw away,but made the decision not to be
in relationship with herboyfriend at the time, because
the cat meant more to her inthat moment.
And there's, I, I think there'sso many other people out there
(31:01):
that are kind of in this kind ofunspoken dilemma.
I mean, it's I, the old trope.
The age of trying to figure outwhether they're gonna pay rent
or buy food, but there's a lotof folks who are in those kind
of dire, um, dire questionsabout how they're actually gonna
live their lives.
So there's really, reallyinteresting stuff to do.
(31:22):
Jim was able to work with arestaurant company where the
president said, you know, mypeople work so damn hard.
I don't want them to have to gohome and do laundry or clean
their houses.
Right.
So Jim was able to show him howhe could.
Actually create a subcompany andnow they do, uh, I think it's
two hours every day of cleaninghouse and doing laundry for all
(31:44):
their 60 employees.
Wow.
I mean, that's intangible to beable to, I know on the rare
occasion that we get somebody tocome over and, and take care of
the house, how good it feels tobe able to walk in a house and
it be clean.
Not to know that you've these 12other things that you have to
take care of.
Right.
So I think a lot of it has to dowith putting ourselves squarely
(32:05):
in the feet and being exactlywhere our associates are not up
here looking down, but actuallybeing in their shoes and like,
what are the things that they'restruggling with every day?
Yeah,
DJ Costantino (32:15):
absolutely.
Also to walk in and know it'sclean and you'd had nothing to
do with it is also, oh God,
Adam Lamb (32:20):
what a gift.
what a gift.
I mean, if it was, if it was me,you know, I'd go to the wall for
this person, this employer whomade this possible, I'm not
jumping ship for quarter, right?
Cause no one else is doing righthere in Asheville.
The, in order to make a livingwage here in Asheville for
hospitality workers, I thinkit's got, I think the.
(32:42):
This is by MassachusettsInstitute of technology.
MIT has a living wage calculatorthat you can find online.
And I highly recommend anyoperator in any city.
Be able to go and click intothis, because if you really want
to know where your people areat, just check this out, because
it said that for a singleparent, with one child, they
needed to make$38,000 a year,right.
(33:03):
Just, just to get by.
And that's why most everybodywho works in Nashville doesn't
live in Nashville.
They're all kind of in outlyingareas.
Now there's this hugeinfrastructure, uh, works going
on to widen the roads, which hasgone on for a year and should go
on for another year.
But it's just like, it's notnecessary.
I mean, there are ways ofachieving the same result
(33:24):
without giving up margin,without giving up profit and
read this the other day.
And it just hit me so hard.
No one is gonna believe a thingyou say until they believe that
you care.
Mm.
And I was like, yeah.
No wonder so much of what I'vesaid during my career has fallen
on deaf ears because a, theydidn't believe that I cared.
(33:44):
I mean, I always thought that,you know, I put my ass on the
line for every single one ofthem, but I know for a fact,
there were a couple times whereI had to think about my own
future and my own needs, asopposed to those of the crew.
You know, when the boss says,Hey, listen, you gotta cut four
or it's gonna be you.
Yeah.
I mean, how do you stand infront of that?
(34:05):
So this is where it comes backdown to, you know, if I'm unsure
of what my core value is, thenit's easy for me to make a bad
choice in that matter.
Even if it means, you know, forme to stand for my people means
that, okay, I'll take the hit.
I got a little bit of savings.
I can cover it.
I'll go home and explain it tomy wife or other jobs out there.
(34:28):
It's just, and how do youactually make those values real
in the day to day?
Yeah.
So one of the biggest issuesthat I see happening is, um, or
one of the biggest challenges.
So before I did the podcast, Iinterviewed about 60 chefs and
to a person, one of the thingsthat they brought up was a
(34:49):
feeling of not beingappreciated, whether that being
from a boss who doesn't reallycare about what they're going
through or customers.
Are trying to beat them down ontheir prices.
If they're a caterer, you know?
Yeah.
They're like, this is my, thisis the price and they're well,
can't you do so to a personthey're feeling unappreciated
now, to me that opens up twodifferent avenues.
(35:11):
Number one, there is the abilityor the opportunity to do some
coaching with them so that theyrealize that if they look for
anyone else to give them thatsense of satisfaction from the
inside, then that hole willnever be.
As I know from dancing in thedark with the devil, you'll go
almost anywhere in order to fillthat hole to feel like you're
(35:32):
good.
I mean, the business basedaround instant gratification
plate goes up in the window, youknow, it's great.
You're waiting for the customerthat he say, da, da.
And it's all about this instantfeedback loop.
While the more I have been ableto basically delay gratification
and understand that the workthat needs to happen in the mid.
(35:53):
Then I've gotten a lot betterabout, or more resilient about
who people think I'm doing agreat job or not.
The other part of it is tocreate a feedback loop within
the organization ofcommunication.
And I'm a big fan of daily orshift meetings.
Yeah.
And those shift meetings cantake on a different tenure.
There's an organization called,um, I got ear back mm-hmm and
(36:17):
basically their shift meetingsare around how everybody's
feeling.
There's a shoebox at the doorand these little smiley faces,
you know, one is, one is, one isstandard.
One is smiling, the other one'smad and everybody signs one of
those and puts it in the box.
And right before the shiftmeeting, that box is open and
they say, okay, so here's thetemperature of the restaurant
right now.
(36:38):
Some of you more of you, the notare feeling pretty bad.
So let's talk about that for asecond.
Instead of, instead of like,Doing a standard set up, which
is like, okay, we've got 340 onthe books.
Uh, these are our specials andbreak, you know, that's, that's
not being informed in any way ofwhat's happening in the lives
(37:00):
and emotionality of theassociates.
Now there might be some peoplewho say, well, dude, they're
doing a job.
What do we care?
Because in the end you don'twanna be the only one on the
line.
Right?
DJ Costantino (37:14):
What do you want someone to care too?
Adam Lamb (37:15):
Like, yeah, you.
again, it gets back to the it'snothing that we didn't already
want.
Right.
So why can't we make adifferentiation between
leadership and mentorship andbecome the mentor that we always
wanted and give that first, givethat sense of security, that
sense of safety.
That sense of, uh, I don't wannasay motivation, but that, that
(37:38):
your lives have a purposebecause.
MAs Well's pyramid or a pyramidof hierarchy, you know, of human
meaning purpose is way up there,man.
And if someone's just coming into just fill the shift, you're
never, ever gonna find that themproducing anything better or
more, it's always gonna be thesame speed.
DJ Costantino (37:58):
Absolutely.
And I think, you know, not to,not to.
discount any of it, but all ofthis, like for operators, all of
this is not the cost a dime todo
Adam Lamb (38:08):
none of it.
that's, that's the crazy thingabout, so right.
There's there are, so the firstthing to do, if, if someone's
listening to this podcast andthey're like, I, you know,
that's all bullshit.
I, I don't even know where tostart.
I would say go back to yourorganization and look at your
job descriptions and tell me ifthey're tiered.
So if you're in your kitchen, doyou have all cooks?
(38:31):
Or are there hot cooks, coldcooks?
Are there cook one, cook two,cook three.
You know, some of the mostsuccessful hotels are successful
for a reason in that they'vecreated this environment where
if I'm coming in and I'm anapprentice or I'm in a.
Or I'm a cook two, and I wannabecome a cook one.
There's typically some type ofskill set test, whether it's
(38:52):
written or manufactured whereyou gotta break something down
or, or make something doesn'ttake any time to create these,
because all these are online inone form or another, but for an
associate to be able to come inand say, you have a clear career
path here.
If you wanna make it to the topof your game, then this is your,
this is your purpose for thetime being and to your.
(39:13):
Amazon only Amazon's created itsbusiness around.
People got two years and thenthey gotta go.
And in, in some cases they'll,they'll buy'em out at the end of
the two years because mm-hmmthey find that after two years,
there's a direct result aroundenthusiasm and the ability to
get the job done versus theirtenure.
So I'm not saying we should belike Amazon, but the point is.
(39:36):
We need to understand whatpeople want from us so that we
can give that to'em so that wecan get what they want from us
and seems transactional.
It is, but it's also on the wayof building a broader, stronger,
more resilient, equitable, uh,and empowering community.
Because once they get a taste ofwhat that's like, then they know
they can't work for anybodyelse.
(39:57):
Right.
Then they know they have to goand create it on their own.
And we need more restaurant.
More food and beverageoperations that are doing this.
So if we concede that at someparticular point, it's gonna
make it a hell a lot easier downthe road.
Now.
Absolutely.
Some people, you know, there'sthis thing that chefs have about
being hard, right?
(40:17):
Like they love their pain.
They love the shit that theyhave to put up with because it's
like a badge of honor.
And if you're not a chef and youdon't have an apron on, and
you're not actively on a linesomewhere, they'll look at you
like, yeah, Ain't got nothing tosay to me.
I can't tell you how many chefshave come after go.
Like, I didn't know what youwere saying then, man, but, but
(40:39):
thanks.
Thanks.
I really appreciate, you know,the fact that you actually said
something to me because no oneelse was gonna say it.
DJ Costantino (40:45):
So absolutely.
And I think that's, that's apretty good place to kind of tie
things up, but you know, I, I, Ikind of wanna leave you with one
with one last question.
Um, you know, we've covered alot today, but you know, for
maybe an operator who'slistening or, you know, someone
in a leadership.
Um, what's something they cankind of, you know, they turn
this, this episode off, they goback to their restaurant.
They go back to their office,wherever it is.
Mm-hmm um, what's something theycan do immediately to improve
(41:08):
the experience of theiremployees in their restaurant.
Adam Lamb (41:11):
Okay.
Um, so Jensen Cumings has kindof a radical idea that is every
hospitality company, everyrestaurant, every consultant.
Every hotel needs to be ahospitality company and a media
company.
Typically what you'll see onFacebook, uh, is a lot of these
static pictures of plates that,that chefs have created, you
(41:34):
know, it's food porn to Jack offanother chef like, Hey dude,
check this out.
Oh man.
That's great.
Fantastic.
Even though you can't eat it,smell it, which are all the
other.
Right.
But instead of posting, insteadof posting those post short form
videos on every single platformthat you think a potential.
Or a potential guest is, andthose videos can be anything
(41:56):
from your crew laughing whilethey're setting up or walking
them through a certain trainingor whatever, because the fact is
is that if you don't own yournarrative, someone else will.
And that's exactly what happenedduring the shutdown, because big
media got a hold of, oh, itsucks to work in restaurants.
Not only did everybody leave,but nobody wanted to come back.
Absolutely in the time thatthat's provided us, it's
(42:19):
incumbent upon all of us to bandtogether and do what we can in
order to improve our workingenvironments.
Now there's nothing you're goingto be able to do about the
physical plant, right.
But emotionally people will be ahell of a lot more bought into
coming to work.
If they know that someoneappreciates them, it's that.
Absolutely.
DJ Costantino (42:39):
Yeah.
And that's something, um, youknow, not to toot our horn here,
but we've been doing at sevenshifts with our job positions.
You know, every time we post anew job listing, we have the
hiring manager makes a videokind of telling the person about
what the experience would belike.
Yeah.
Shows the office side a littlebit.
I know.
I'm sure.
You know, um, Sean Walsh at Cbarbecue when he is hiring, gets
(42:59):
up on the roof of his restaurantwith a.
So, you know, come, come applyhere.
I think that kind of shows you,uh, a lot about the type of
person that would do that.
Right?
Absolutely.
Those all positive things, allpositive things.
Adam Lamb (43:10):
Yeah.
I, I there's, like you said,there's so much that can be done
without spending a lot of money.
You know, the other thing Iwould suggest for an operator to
that can do something right.
When he walks back, he or shewalks back into our operation is
to spend some time and just bewith the associate, see for a
chef.
It's easy because if you got.
(43:30):
Prepping in the background.
Or doing some prep, you canalways slide up a cutting board.
Don't say anything, slide up acutting board, get your towel,
your Sandy bucket, and then juststart doing some work.
And you don't have to sayanything to'em.
There's something that happenspsychologically.
When people are side by side,shoulder to shoulder that opens
up a conversation that might notnecessarily happen any other
way.
(43:50):
Yeah, very often my wife and Iare driving in the car and we
have.
Extraordinary conversations.
Well, it actually comes from thebody position because if you're
sitting across from one anotheror standing across from one
another, it, it forms aconfrontational di and that's
not what you want.
You want people to be able tojust kind of open up and start
talking, rolling silverware, goover and start rolling
silverware with somebody, youknow, all these things in order
(44:13):
to not only them feel like youare with them.
Physically, but emotionally aswell.
DJ Costantino (44:21):
Very cool.
And with that, I think, um, it'sa nice little bow to put on
everything, but for folks thatare looking for some more, where
can they find you and what
Adam Lamb (44:28):
you're doing?
Sure.
Uh, I'm on LinkedIn at, uh, letme see.
Adam Lamb.
Uh, I'm on Facebook at Adam Muh, you can catch the podcast at
chef life, radio dot.
Or available on wherever you getyour podcasts and you can email
me directly at Adam chef life,radio.com.
(44:51):
Very
DJ Costantino (44:51):
cool, Adam, thank you so much for coming on the
show today.
Adam Lamb (44:54):
Dominic.
Thank you so very much.
I, I, I'm still looking forwardto what you guys are rolling
out.
I think the product isfantastic.
The support is wonderful and youguys are incorporating a lot of
these things that we're talkingabout, like communication and
things of that.
So yep.
You guys get it?
I yeah.
Behind you a hundred
DJ Costantino (45:08):
percent.
Absolutely.
Thank you.
And a couple names you drive JimTaylor.
We have an episode with Jim.
Um, Jim was on the podcast backin April and then Jensen
Cummings as well was on thepodcast back last year.
So I'll put the link to thoseepisodes in the description as
well.
So you can check those out, butAdam, you have a fantastic rest
of your day.
Thanks
Adam Lamb (45:24):
you too.
Take care.
You bet.
DJ Costantino (45:27):
Thanks again for checking out the restaurant
growth podcast presented byseven shifts.
We're so grateful to ourlisteners and we'd love to hear
from all of you.
Send us an email to podcastseven shift.com and check us out
on social we're at seven shiftson all platforms.
Don't forget to hit thatsubscribe button and we'll see
you next week.
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