June 30, 2025 • 54 mins
What happens when a police officer's career evolves into revolutionizing corrections technology? Alisha Shoates-James takes us on her remarkable journey from patrolling Nashville streets to developing innovative tablet solutions that transform prison environments nationwide.
Drawing from her seven years in law enforcement and extensive experience as a federal probation officer, Shoates-James intimately understands the complexities of our justice system. Her work creating pre-sentence investigation reports for federal judges provided deep insights into the human stories behind criminal cases. "The person is not their lowest moment," she emphasizes, a philosophy that guided her leadership of Tennessee's Probation and Parole Division, where she supervised 1,200 staff responsible for 78,000 individuals reentering society.
Now at Aventive Technologies, Shoates-James pioneers secure tablet solutions that are deployed to 1,200,000 incarcerated individuals in America's prisons and jails. These devices deliver far more than entertainment—they provide critical education, rehabilitative programming, and family connection for incarcerated individuals while creating calmer, safer environments for staff. Correctional administrators report significant reductions in facility tension and behavioral incidents after implementing this technology. "When we introduce tablets into the environment, suddenly everyone has equal access to education," Shoates-James explains, describing how digital learning eliminates waiting lists for limited classroom seats.
Subscribe to the Prison Officer Podcast for more insights into the evolving world of corrections and innovative approaches to rehabilitation and reentry.
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/alishasjames
Aventiv https://aventiv.com/
Securus Technologies https://securustech.net/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome back to the Prison Officer
Podcast.
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Pepperball is the safer optionfirst.
(01:03):
Hey, welcome back everybody.
This is Mike Cantrell with thePrison Officer Podcast.
Today I've got a guest, aliciaSchultz-James.
She is the Senior VicePresident and General Manager
and Account Manager at AventiveTechnologies, where she oversees
national accounts relationships, leads a team to ensure client
(01:23):
success.
Previously, she served asSenior Vice President of the
Post-Incarceration Business Unitat Eventive's subsidiary
Securus Technologies,spearheading the strategic
expansion of reentry resourcesand tech solutions for
justice-involved individuals.
She began her career in lawenforcement as a Nashville
police officer and later becamea federal probation officer and
(01:47):
is still very active, includingshe's part of the table and I'm
going to have to ask what thatis and the executives
transforming probation andparole.
So she's still very active inlaw enforcement and corrections
and reentry.
So welcome to the PrisonOfficer Podcast, alicia.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, thank you, Michael.
Thank you for having me andthank you for whoever scripted
that beautiful bio.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah, you know we haven't done a lot of probation
and parole on here, so I'minterested to hear, of course,
how you got there.
We did have the president ofthe Missouri chapter of the
Probation and Parole Association, but that was a couple of years
ago, so I'm going to dig intothat as we go along.
But I always start off with thesame stuff.
(02:32):
Can you tell me where you grewup and how you got into law
enforcement?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah, definitely.
Thank you for having me Excitedto be here and share with your
listeners.
So, originally from Detroit,michigan, and always had a knack
, a love for law enforcement andthe public safety, public
interaction component of it likepublic servant interaction
component of it Went toundergrad in Tennessee and I
(02:59):
thought that I would go back toDetroit to be a police officer
and fell in love with Nashville.
Fell in love with the city.
The crime rate was a little bitlower than Detroit and so I
just decided to stay inNashville and tested to become a
police officer.
I actually was in my junioryear so luckily I met my husband
before I tested to become apolice officer, because I could
(03:23):
tell you, junior year of college, being a cop was it was very
interesting.
But but yeah, and then juststayed, stayed in Nashville
thereafter.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, so were there people in corrections or law
enforcement in your family?
Had you seen that already?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yes, I had.
So my, my uncle, my father'sbrother, um was a Lieutenant in
the Detroit um police force andum, unfortunately he lost his
life in the line of duty.
He was um, he was going in, hewas actually just ending his
shift and went into a fast foodrestaurant to pick up some
(04:00):
dinner.
Um, uh, a guy subject dude wasrobbing, uh, the the was robbing
the establishment.
My uncle announced himself andthe assailant got a drop on my
uncle and unfortunately hesuccumbed to his gunshot wound.
But he lived for a few yearsafter being shot.
(04:21):
But that was really so you canimagine my parents' surprise.
That's powerful.
When I went from wanting to be aspecial education teacher early
in life to wanting to be apolice officer, they were like
you want to do what?
And then the family history ofit, but it really it connected
me to legacy Again, thinkingabout how police officers serve
the public.
It was a very, it was a strongsense of pride and community in
(04:44):
Detroit and so that connection,the connection to the community,
really drove me to say yeah, Iwant to serve my public, the
public, in this way.
That's going to be mycontribution.
And that's kind of where it allstarted.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Excellent.
So when you became a lawenforcement officer and I know
there's surprises, we all havethose moments when we get in
there and we go, wow, I didn'texpect this.
What were some of the thingsthat you learned about yourself
and learned about the worldactually?
Right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
So I had a very fortunate upbringing, lived with
my siblings, my parents, and so, even though I'm from Detroit,
it was the, you know, the moreaffluent parts of Detroit, right
.
And so policing introduced meto other components of society
and really the gray areas inlife where people are on a
(05:39):
straight and narrow path and geta substance use, addiction or,
you know, drinking or some typeof critical incident that really
derails them.
So it allowed me to see kind ofthe multiple dimensions in
human behavior in, you know, insociety.
And so when I first became apolice officer I wanted to be a
(06:00):
homicide detective.
And that was.
You know, the crime shows werebig when I was in high school
and so I thought, man, I want tosolve murders.
And I visited a police precinctthe 8th Precinct in Detroit
when I was like a junior in highschool.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
And.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
I was like, you know, there was closure to a case
that a police officer, aninvestigator, had worked on and
there was a victim, a familymember of the victim, there, and
they were talking about howthis detective, this
investigator, allowed them tohave closure.
And so when I first became apolice officer, I said, okay,
you know what I want to do, thatI want to go out and close
(06:38):
these cases and serve mycommunity in this way.
And I will tell you, like Imentioned, I was a junior in
college.
So by the time I graduated thepolice force I'm sorry, oh yeah
(07:00):
our third call of the first day,and it was it was a homicide
call.
And of course, patrol inNashville patrol is called out,
of course first to just likeassess the scene and call in a
homicide unit.
And I went on the scene and likewithin like five minutes I was
like I don't think I want to dohomicide anymore, like that.
So it really surprised me,because I had this buildup of
(07:23):
years of you know what I mean,from high school to undergrad
and then a first week on a job,and was like, yeah, I don't
really want to you know, want todo homicide.
But I knew that I had found mypassion for what I was doing in
the capacity of law enforcementat that time.
But I was surprised that likequickly, I was like no, I don't
want to stare at dead bodies.
It was kind of it wasn't mything.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
That's interesting because you know you're right.
The initial part of a homicideis here, and that's a whole
different thing than thatclosure at the end, which would
be so gratifying.
Wow, Exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
So how long did you stay with the Nashville PD?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Seven years I was a Nashville officer.
For seven years I worked patrol, worked a little bit of
undercover investigations, Iworked in background and
recruiting the training division.
So I had an opportunity to movearound a little bit within my
seven years and then we had likemaybe every month where we had
(08:20):
to go out and do actual patrolwork to connect us with, you
know, the community still, nomatter where you were, if you
were in training or whatnot.
And I always will say during mytenure at the at MMPD, serving
in patrol, and connecting withthe community and just being a
(08:40):
brush like it's, the vibrancy of, of that position.
That was probably my favoritein my in my law enforcement
career.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Nice, yeah.
Um, so next thing you moved towas federal probation and parole
.
Yeah, so I did that come along.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
I know Right.
So I had earned my master'sdegree.
I had no plans of getting anadvanced degree, but I had.
I earned my master's degreewhile I was a police officer and
you know it really opened myeyes up.
I thought about when I was apolice officer I thought about
the way to move up was to makesergeant, lieutenant, you know,
captain, commander, and was kindof focused on growing in my
(09:19):
career that way.
And then I thought about, okay,dea, fbi, atf, right like
Tennessee Bureau ofInvestigation.
And I thought about, okay, dea,fbi, atf, right Like Tennessee
Bureau of Investigations.
And I thought about, okay,there's an opportunity there for
me to grow my career that way.
When I got my master's degree,I was open to like there are a
whole lot of three-letteragencies out there federal
agencies that people typicallylike I did, I just was not
(09:42):
familiar with.
And I was fortunate enough to doa temporary duty assignment at
the White House, actually whileI was a police officer, and
during that seven months itreally opened up my mind to
think through what could be apossibility, you know, in my
career.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
And.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I understood that the federal probation where I was
was a in the Middle District ofTennessee.
The role of a federal probationofficer is still a law
enforcement-oriented role but,it's much more adjacent to the
court.
You work within the courtsystem, you can write
pre-sentence reports, pre-trialreports, do supervision, and so
(10:20):
it was almost a naturalextension of after incarceration
Right.
So there's a very tactical.
You know, you lock somebody up,you work the case, you go and
you testify in court, right, andthen they serve their their
period of time.
And then that that transitionwhen individuals come out into
the community.
There's a whole host of workwith that, a whole host of work
(10:48):
with that, and so I thought thatit was unique enough and
challenging enough but veryclosely aligned to law
enforcement.
Where I had the opportunityafter I finished my master's
degree and that was arequirement, that was a
prerequisite for Middle Districtof Tennessee was that you had
to have an advanced degree, andso I thought what better way to
put that to use.
You had to have an advanceddegree, and so I thought what
better way to put that to use,and it was such an enlightening
experience understanding federallaw and understanding the
(11:13):
judicial system at that time,like in that season of you know,
armed career, criminal, andlearning different statute, how
to apply sentencing guidelinesto individuals who had been
convicted of crimes, to betterinform federal judges.
It just took me down a very, Ithink, a deep road with
(11:36):
understanding criminality in adifferent way, right.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
And understanding that, while my previous
experience as a police officerwas very Black and white,
understanding that, while myprevious experience as a police
officer was very black and white, like if you're there
disturbing the peace or you'recommitting a crime, then you
know, then we, then there has tobe an intervention and I have
to restore peace as a as apolice officer.
But there there were.
(12:02):
There was the gray areas in lifethat I saw much more abundantly
during my time as a federalprobation officer and then
talking to individuals, familymembers, talking to victims of
crimes, understanding that, andso you stand in the middle of
kind of the instant offense thatoccurred, and then the
individual having redemption atlife and coming out and being
more successful as theyreintegrate into society, right.
(12:24):
And then driving accountabilityand structure for them.
So it was a very unique rolethat a lot of people was like.
I don't really understand thatfederal probation officers, you
know, have that type of scope,but it was.
It was very impactful.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Well, I got to ask you a question, and this is
something for me to learn from,because I've seen the other end
of apparently what you did,which is PSIs you know
pre-sentencing reports so as afederal correctional officer
that was something that welooked at, something that we
sometimes went and studied.
So, for my own information, canyou tell me a little bit about
(12:57):
what you guys do for that,Because it is such an
encompassing of their life?
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yes, it's a very humbling experience.
I will tell you to write psisfor federal judges because, um,
you know, again, I had.
You know, you go to school andyou get the degrees, whatever,
and you have these lifeexperiences and then to be able
to recount a person's life, tobe able to, with dignity and
(13:28):
respect, inform the courts,inform the BOP, inform every you
know, all interested partyattorneys about the individual
with fact-based andresource-based information.
It is definitely a lift, andsometimes those reports would be
anywhere from 30 pages to 100pages, right, like you,
definitely a lift, and sometimesthose reports would be anywhere
from 30 pages to 100 pages,right.
Like you've seen that, and ifthe criminal histories are
(13:49):
extensive, being able toappropriately calculate the
criminal histories that go intothat and all of those
calculations set the judge upfor understanding the
appropriateness of a sentenceright, there are some, you know.
If a person's criminal historyis more tenured and lengthier,
then at a certain point, youknow, some criminal history
(14:12):
would just be lumped togetherfor a point basis.
But it was, you know, I wouldsay, interviewing everyone from
the attorneys to any familymembers that can give insight to
the incarcerated individualthemselves right, like
understanding how their familymembers have played into kind of
(14:34):
their experiences or theirlifestyles, right.
And then, and being able toarticulate that story again in a
very posture, was somethingthat, like you said, so many
people who had to use a PSI andit's so critical for sentencing
and mandates of the court,judges being able to mandate the
(14:55):
appropriate types ofrehabilitation programming or
education or suggestionsthereafter, or even a probation
officer, post-release or superpost-release supervision officer
, being able to drive compliancewith the person, understanding
their background and history,all of that is the foundation
for how a person moves forwardand I've always I mean in that
(15:16):
time I really doubled down onthe idea that the person is not
their lowest moment.
Typically, what is what isdeemed as their lowest moment of
that instant offense?
Right, but it took place.
What are the parameters thatcan help this person become a
more successful, productivemember of society, and who are
(15:37):
the respective community playersor law enforcement players that
can help that personrehabilitate and be more
successful in the community?
So, that was the scope of it.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
So that's interesting , that that was the way you were
focused.
That's not the way I saw itfrom my end.
But, that's interesting thatyou know.
I worked at a medical center inSpringfield, Missouri, which
has a lot of mental health, andsometimes you look at those guys
and go, how did they end uplike this?
And you look at the PSI andit's scary, it's sad.
(16:08):
You can't believe.
Some of those people have wentthrough and I'm not one of those
people that makes excuses.
you know you make choices inlife but, some people didn't get
a fair shake, and we used tosee that.
But we also used it when wespoke with them and when we had
problems with them, because Icould go back and find out what
(16:28):
meant something to them and havea conversation.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yes, so interesting to hear about that, thank you.
Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, I meanthat's the that you hit the nail
on the head, right Like it's atool that's leveraged at
different points of the you knowof the criminal justice process
to better inform.
But, yeah, like someindividuals that came across my
desk, I just thought to myselfmy God, right Like the you know
(16:53):
being introduced to substancesat four and five years old, or
you know, victims, a lot ofvictims of violence or sexual
assault or different things thatyou know that it's just you
could imagine why you can betterunderstand why they're having
the challenges that they werehaving like during their time in
the justice system.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
So, yeah, so how long did you stay with federal
probation and parole?
Speaker 2 (17:15):
So almost five years.
And then I had a mentor whocalled me and said, hey, I hear
that the state is looking for aprobation administrator and I
thought I really like thefederal system.
We had a lot of the newertechnology.
It was a very interesting role.
Definitely, I would say, moremore sophisticated understanding
(17:40):
of the application of law thanthan my tenure at the police
department.
But I was looking for achallenge specifically around
leadership, like I said Imentioned.
I mentioned I had finished mydegree and I had studied some
things in leadership and I hadmanaged small teams.
But I wanted to just stick myfoot in the water, stick my toe
in the water at a largerleadership opportunity and I
(18:03):
went from that experience, thatfederal experience, to
supervising about 300 people upunder my chain of command.
So I had, I think, four directreports, but the first region
that I supervised was aroundthree to 400 staff who were
responsible for about 21,000probationers and parolees in the
(18:23):
region.
And so I went to the state ofTennessee, tennessee Department
of Correction up under theProbation Parole Community
Corrections Division and fromregional director to probation
administrator to finallyassistant commissioner, where I
oversaw the entire divisionProbation Parole, community
(18:45):
Corrections a staff of 1,200,900 were sworn and
responsibility for 78,000individuals reentering society.
Again, it elevated the way thatI thought about the application
of justice, post-release andreally the idea of what could
true rehabilitation look likeand that balance of true
(19:09):
rehabilitation and allowing anavenue for that while making
sure that the peace and theprotection of society remain
whole right, like we had amission to protect you know,
protect the public right and, asindividuals who committed these
crimes, reenter society, makingsure that we understand where
(19:31):
they're living, what they'redoing, if they're going to
programming, if they have a job,gainful employment, coming in
for drug testing.
But that role I mean itdefinitely deepened my
leadership experience, obviouslysupervising that many people
over 95 counties but leading 900officers Right Like people who
(19:53):
are sworn and had.
You know guns and you knowdrove marked cars or whatnot A
very different function than apolice officer.
But you know the public, publicperception around.
You know probation officers andtheir authority is similar, and
so I had to artfully anddistinctly draw that separation
(20:15):
for the probation officers to beand parole officers to be
impactful.
But, understanding that our jobswere much different than
traditional law enforcement andwe had a duty to the state to
ensure kind of this, to allow anavenue for a behavior
modification for theseindividuals, the people who are
up under probation and parole.
(20:36):
They had already served theirtime, so our job was not, as
probation and parole officers,to be punitive and to you know
what I mean like try to in someway de-incentivize success.
If anything, we wanted to givethem avenues to change their
behavior and then, you know,become productive members of
society.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Right, you know one thing I've talked about with
correctional officers that Idon't think gets brought out,
and I think it's the same.
You tell me, with probation andparole we have more power in
one way to say it for take awaysomebody's freedom than a police
officer does.
Yeah, you know, I can write areport and I'll get two more
(21:17):
years you know, you can violatethem and send them back and
they're going to go for two orthree more years and I don't
think we look at that sometimesas the burden or the
responsibility that it is.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, that's very true.
And when you think about itlike it's a tremendous
responsibility, and that's why Ithink like the for me, when I
look at what at that point, youknow, looking at employees and
the staff that we have around us, making sure that we have
leaders that understood that wewant to cultivate a culture
where people respected, you know, the power that they have and
(21:51):
they're humanizing theexperience.
Now listen as much as like theold school police officer in me,
right like we understand thatyou know if there is an
infraction that takes place andsomeone needs to be held
accountable, balancing thatmindset and driving
accountability with opening upthe door and allowing an avenue
(22:13):
for change.
But there were some people,undoubtedly, who did not take
the help and who would not youknow what I mean Like they did
not, you know, respect theconditions of their release or
their probation and ultimatelyhad to go back into an
incarcerated setting, and it wasappropriate.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
And just like having.
That's why I say is it likecorrectional officers, probation
officers?
They're very unique positionsbecause they may not be in that
many LA, you know, movies orwhatever.
It may not be on the big screen, but it's a, they're very,
they're key and critical rolesfor how justice is, you know,
administered in some waysthroughout the justice system
(22:55):
and it's an important role insociety for sure.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
I know corrections does, I know probation and
parole does.
But we also affect thatperson's lifelong feelings,
understanding about justice.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
And when somebody feels like they've lost justice
because even I mean you'vetalked to them they know that
they're in there for what theydid.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
There's no doubt about it.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
I accept it and I'm going to do my time, but we can
steal that from them also bytreating them wrong.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Right, Absolutely.
I work closely with, obviously,the incarceration, the
assistant commissioner that wasover operations of the
incarcerated individuals, and itwas always a push and pull
around.
How do we balance what thatreentry process looks like,
making sure that the probationor parole officer are going
inside the institution prior torelease and making sure that we
had continuity of services asthey release into society?
(23:57):
And then you know, it's just,it's a coordination, right, and
I think that if you lack thatcoordination or that continuity
of services individuals couldhave could not be, you know, as
successful because they aren'tbeing introduced to here's a job
when you first come out hereare housing resources, here are
mental health resources, and soit is.
(24:18):
You know it's key and critical.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
One of the most impactful things for me.
I started off at Missouri State, penn, which is now a museum
that tells you how old I am, andone of the first inmates I
walked out had done like 35years and they handed him a
check for like $3.47.
Wow, and the guard?
We were guards back then butthe lieutenant said and don't
(24:42):
come back.
And my brain's just going well,what do you think he's going to
go back to?
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
We didn't give him anything,you know, we didn't give him
anything yeah yeah, we're betterthan that.
now, right, exactly, we didn'tgive him anything.
We didn't give him anything.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, we're better than that now, right.
Exactly, I was getting ready tosay the evolution of corrections
and thinking about even my role.
That's why I love what I do somuch.
I mean the technology component.
I know we're getting there, butI would be remiss if I didn't
say this is reentry.
Today looks markably differentthan reentry 10, 15 years ago.
(25:14):
In most cases, especially inthe environments, when we're
able to deploy technology and Ihave the privilege of serving
and partnering with over half ofthe prisons and jails in
America to be able to deliversecure technology that benefits
the incarcerated individuals butalso benefits the officers, and
(25:35):
I'm not going to lie.
I think early in my career Iwould have never understood the
power of a tablet and how youcan put education and reentry
information on a tabletIndividuals they can consume
that in their cell.
They can consume that, like whenI was in, when I was, even when
I was assistant commissioner wedidn't have tablets in our
(25:55):
facilities and people.
We would have to wait until wehad a seat in that classroom for
John or Jane to go get theprogramming that they need.
That was a condition of releaseand so it's a prerequisite for
release and that individual youknow would be maintained in that
correctional environment.
the costs associated with them,treating them right, like that,
(26:17):
everything operationally thatgoes around you know, keeping a
person in custody, but when weintroduce tablets into the
environment, then now you takeyour 30 seats that you have
available every month and youmultiply that to what is
appropriate for the content andyou know education is being
delivered and now everyone hasthat equal access.
(26:37):
So you think about just.
It's like a release of apressure valve from an
operational perspective and thenfrom a contention perspective
from the, you know, from theincarcerated individuals.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
And something I've seen over the years from the
incarcerated individuals.
I've seen them go to theteachers and say, hey, I want to
learn this, but I can't sit inclass.
I've seen them hide textbooks.
I've seen them reading up onstuff in their cell that they
can't show the others becausethat makes them look bad or they
lose face or whatever.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly.
And now like, if an individualis on a tablet, they don't know
if they're looking at you knowlistening to music or looking at
(27:28):
a book, or you know what I meanreading you know the newest
novel that they choose toconsume?
Right, to be better connectedwith their loved ones.
Right, we want to facilitatephone calls and conversations
and e-messaging and pictures oftheir kids, because we want
individuals to get out and havethat technology allows that
facilitation to happen withoutinterference, you know, or
(27:56):
operational, I guess,interference from administrators
, right.
So we're always thinking atAvento Secures.
We're always thinking about theofficer, right?
How does this technology thatwe're introducing into the
environment, how does itstreamline operations for the
officer?
How does it make theenvironment more safe, more
(28:17):
productive, keeps theincarcerated individuals calm at
a lower pressure point, right?
I mean, all of those things arebenefits that we saw and that
we continue to see as we deployour technology.
So you know, that was one ofthe reasons when I think back to
why I transitioned ultimatelytransitioned out of traditional
(28:38):
kind of corrections or lawenforcement is I wanted, I was
really interested aboutinnovation.
Where can we take, you know,innovative solutions and be able
to innovate in a way thatimpacts the reentry process that
better connects people as theyare returning from an
incarcerated space.
(29:00):
And I launched a couple ofbusinesses.
I launched a businessspecifically about this called
Quick Touch, and I had aconnection with Securus and
Securus said, look, we're reallytrying to do this reentry thing
, we want to be able to provideconnection for individuals.
And I'm like great, because Ijust, you know, had I've had all
this experience with thepopulation that you're trying to
(29:20):
serve.
And so we connected Securus andI connected and I came within
the in the organization to helpkind of further the advancement
of providing the reentry andrehabilitation arm of the
organization and that has justtaken off.
Like I have colleagues now whooversee that, I've moved into an
(29:43):
account manager role where I,you know, stand between the
customer and the business,making sure that we have a
balanced approach.
But we have some.
You said it one more time.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
I'm just agreeing.
Yes, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
So we have wonderful people over our education system
and people who have had theexperience of working in
correctional environments aseducators now working to
strengthen our platform.
So it's just I mean it reallyis a.
People ask me all the time likehow did you wind up like you're
working as a patrol officer?
How did you wind up in tech?
Right, it was that hunger forsolutions, because I understand
(30:21):
and I understood that governmentenvironment.
Sometimes you're you're so busy, like making sure that you keep
the bus moving right and keepthose wheels on the bus turning,
that having strong partnersthat can come in and say, hey,
here's a solution that you maynot be thinking of because
you're doing this mission,critical work, and here's how we
can collaborate to make yourlife and your job easier.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
So for people that don't know, kind of run me
through what's a tablet, looklike what's on there, the
security that's involved andwhat's the options that they
have.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Yeah, so this is where I'm going to have you put
up, like populate, an image ofthe tablet right, we can
probably do that Right.
In the playback.
We'll have the image there.
We'll have the image there.
But right now we haveundeniably the most secure
technology for a correctionalenvironment, both from an
(31:18):
officer perspective and theincarcerated individual's
perspective.
Our new tablet is called EvoTab.
It is a modular design tabletthat allows individuals to
consume media, education,rehabilitative services, make
phone calls from their tablet.
So now there's not a monopolyon the phone on the wall for
(31:39):
individuals where they have toclamor or fight over that phone
on the wall.
They have that at theirfingertips.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Well, let me ask you real quick here.
So I was talking the other dayabout these new FCC guidelines.
How does that affect this?
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Do inmates get?
Speaker 1 (31:54):
charged for using the tablet to talk to family.
Does that go over, okay?
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yes, it's just like you or I if we you know on our
cell phones or our tablets thereis a cost for that.
You know that communication.
Essentially, the FCC has comein and said that the cost of a
phone call or a video call iscapped based on the side of the
agency, right?
And so, based on if it's a DOCor a county, there are rate caps
(32:20):
in place.
It does not limit the amount ofcommunication, it does not
limit the types of communicationor material that is, you know,
on the tablet.
Of course we always work withagencies to make sure that the
you know material music, movies,games are within the scope and
(32:42):
policy of the agency.
But essentially the agency willdrive that and guide that.
The FCC simply says that it'sappropriate to have rate caps.
And when you think aboutrehabilitation and you think
about the need to connectindividuals to their family.
We support having communicationthat has appropriate cost for
(33:06):
incarcerated individuals.
Me or you, we have to pay forour cell phone service, right,
and there's a cost to that.
But we agree and we support theidea that that should not be
extreme costs where people areunable to have meaningful
conversations.
So we support thatwholeheartedly.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
So on the tablets, is it like FaceTime or is it like
a phone call, or both?
Right?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
So it can be either, yeah, it can be either, or it
just depends.
Every agency is different.
You can imagine that, right,like every county is different,
every, every DOC is different.
We have devices that aremounted on a wall, where there
are, you know, like just a videoterminal type device.
There are agencies that willallow for the video connectivity
(33:48):
on the tablet, or there canjust be, you know, straight
phone calling on the tablet.
But, yes, individuals canreceive pictures from their
loved ones, they can correspondon email, they can correspond in
a text-like solution.
And, from an operationalperspective, while we appreciate
(34:08):
and we want to facilitate thosecommunications, we want to make
sure that that's done in a waythat promotes a safe and secure
and you know, safe and secureenvironments allow people to do
their time in a way thatpromotes rehabilitation.
(34:34):
Right, and if you talk to a lotof incarcerated individuals,
which I'm sure you have overyour tenure, they don't want the
time foolery either, right?
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Like they don't want to deal.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
They just want to do their time, you know, digest
some rehabilitative content forthe most part, work a job right,
get positioned to be successfulpost-release and then go out in
society and release.
And so I think ourinvestigative tools are tools
for the officers to really drivebehavioral management on
incarcerated individuals'devices.
(35:04):
All of those are tools and thetool belt for the officers to be
successful while managing thepopulation.
And kind of.
What I mean by that is that theofficer would have his own
tablet, right, so he or shewould have their own tablet, and
then incarcerated individualshave their own tablets.
Let's just say that there arebehavioral issues with specific
(35:25):
individuals and perhaps theyneed to have some type of
restriction.
Maybe their tablet should onlybe used for phone calling and
messaging, and that officer saysJohn Doe, you know the
behavioral health model, riskneeds responsivity.
We're going to make sure that wetake away the music and the
(35:45):
media.
The officer then can leveragetheir tablet and then go in and
do that behavioral modificationso that John Doe loses the
privilege until they have proventhemselves appropriate to have
those devices or those services,and then they can turn them
back on.
So we really try to empower ouragency and our administrators
(36:06):
to think through what's the bestway to supervise the population
.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Sure, and you know, I've seen County jails that have
got 40 inmates and there's noway that they have the access if
they want to learn somethingnew, if they want to do
something.
But I would guess with thesetablets it's almost unlimited
what they can sit there andlearn.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Absolutely.
The really cool thing about ournew Evo tab is that we have the
Google Play Store on the Evo taband so we can interface with
third parties.
Of course the agencies wouldhave to give us a blessing for
that, but we can interface withthird parties to offer reentry
content that is custom.
They're third parties to offerreentry content that is custom,
(36:49):
their third parties, as customto the communities that
individuals are releasing fromright.
So the jail population a lotdifferent from the DOC
population, as you know, but foryour listeners, right, like
that, the jail population areshorter stays and so when you
think about the importance ofdigesting content that's going
to help for that rehabilitative,you know that facilitate that
(37:12):
successful rehabilitation itbecomes important for an
individual to be able to gettheir device and begin to
download that information andconsume that information as soon
as they're in facility and notwait to be placed into a class
DOCs.
The beautiful thing about theopportunity I would say with
(37:33):
DOCs is that incarceratedindividuals can take consume
education programs that arelengthier in time.
So think about two-year degrees, think about GED training,
right, so you have the timethere for longer facilitation
and consumption of educationmaterial.
So it really regardless ifyou're talking about short stay
(37:54):
21 days or long stay five or sixyears, 10 years the devices are
used differently depending onthe needs of the individuals.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Well, the thing that hit my mind while you were
talking about the jail theresometimes you want to get that
to them at that moment.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Because that might be the moment they've said I need
to make a change, something'snot going right here and if you
wait they're going to get backinto that system.
They get more criminallyeducated.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
There you go.
So I could absolutely see thereason to get that in their hand
immediately.
You know, I was just in a jailin Georgia, actually yesterday,
and I was hearing from theiradministrator that said, when we
first like, the tension in thejail before tablets was
extremely high.
You'll walk to the day room.
People are yelling, you know.
(38:43):
And he said, when we put thetablets in there, like it just
brought the tension down sosignificantly and even the
volume of the day rooms.
Because people are focused oneither they might be consuming
music right, like they.
It can be relaxation too, rightLike we, we.
But we understand thattechnology allows for the
environments to be moreconducive to rehabilitation than
(39:08):
those without Like.
There are uses of force,incidents, right, and there's no
studies that directly correlatethat instituting tablets drives
down use of force.
So this is anecdotal, I justwant to make sure I say that for
the record.
But we have seen and we'veheard from administrators that
they have noticed that the usesof force have decreased when you
(39:31):
introduce technology, becausepeople are occupied.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Absolutely, and I can even tell you from old school.
I worked in a prison.
Everybody had a TV.
You didn't want to lose your TV.
So I'm absolutely sure thatthey don't want to lose their
tablet.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yeah, and that was a deterrent.
Yes, absolutely.
Yeah, and that was a deterrent.
Yeah, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Absolutely.
And you know again, workingwith the agencies to understand
how the technology can continueto further their mission.
Right, we're, we are inpartnership.
We don't.
We don't ideate in a silo, likethat's one thing with our
agency or with our organization,that we don't.
We don't ideate in a silo.
We make sure that we go out andwe talk to leaders, we talk to
(40:14):
practitioners and we say what doyou need, what is going to
benefit you as operators in thisenvironment?
And we come back to the geniusminds that we have within our
organization.
Shout out to Melanie andLidgett and Jessica I don't want
to start, I shouldn't startsaying names, oh, that's good.
I'm going to miss somebody, butwe have some really impressive
(40:36):
people, charles Barrasso, thatwe will bring the use cases to
and then they will help usfurther develop what we need to
develop right.
I was working with a colleaguehis name is Liv, since I'm
naming people and you know wewere talking about the
investigative services and waysto strengthen the investigative
(40:57):
services, and I'm going to tellyou it wasn't you know a couple
months later that there was thisfirst scope of how to advance
that understanding that ourtools and our technology really,
as we move forward, is we're astaple in the way that prisons
and jails are run in America andwe are dang proud of that.
So, you know, and I'm proud tobe a part of the team too.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Sure.
So what's this team working onnow?
What's for the future?
What are you guys bringingforward?
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Yeah, the future is here, right, with the Evo tab,
and we will continue to seefurther iterations of our
technology.
So, strengthening of theapplications that we bring to
(41:53):
the environment, you know, moresecure connectivity and
communications to.
You know the short term, orwhat do we call it?
Stc?
So it's like a text messagingfeature, right, making sure that
, like that was revolutionarywhen we think about from phone
calls to e-messaging, to STC.
Just making sure that wecontinue to strengthen those
products and services.
Sure that we continue tostrengthen those products and
services.
Increasing the type of mediacontent that we have, making
(42:13):
sure that, while we want all ofthe publications and the books
and everything that we offer,the blockbusters too, right.
So just understanding andhaving that balance, the newest
music for the incarceratedindividuals.
From the officer side, it'sreally exciting because
everything from the safety andsecurity, the investigative
tools that we're developing andbringing to market, continue to
(42:36):
evolve on our platform forofficer tablets, right.
Just a strength in theconnectivity and the reliability
of what we do as we continue toevolve that of what we do as we
continue to evolve that.
So we're excited.
We're excited to partner withagencies that are
forward-leaning and hear fromthem as we continue to develop
our products and services.
(42:57):
And I mean selfishly when Ithink about my time as a police
officer, when I think about mytime running an agency or as a
federal probation officer.
I wish that I would have hadsome of these tools and
understanding the content thatpeople you know either consume
in an incarcerated environment.
Probation really doesn't know.
In America, like I will say, alarge part probation really
(43:19):
doesn't know what people, orparole officers they don't know
what people are doing whilethey're incarcerated, right, and
so if we had some type ofdigital receipt to say here,
here's the content that wasconsumed, when we think about
scoping reentry plans forindividuals, that would be huge
Right, and our connectivity, ourtablets, allow for that digital
(43:40):
receipt of here was what wasconsumed, here are the hours
that were spent on it, and wecan give that to John or Jane
Doe or the agency, for you knowjust the iteration of a success
plan as they release intosociety.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Interesting?
Yeah, because on our part,unless they completed it and got
a certificate, we probablydidn't put it in their file
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
And then you don't see it.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
Right, exactly what can corrections and probation
and parole do to work togetherbetter, because I always feel
like we're separate and weshouldn't be as much, because
we're just handing them off.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Yeah, that was the biggest hurdle and I would say
you know, we did everything fromearlier reach-ins where you had
parole officers going insidethe facility, connectivity with
family members prior to John orJane Doe getting out, and more
than just a checkbox Becauseprobation and parole officers,
they would have to go and say,okay, is it a real house,
where's the address?
(44:40):
Who else is going to be there,mom or dad?
Make sure there are no weaponsin the house, but making sure
that there's connectivity withthe family to say you know John
or Jane Doe, you want them to besuccessful.
Tell me about other things thatyou know we should.
We should work on as like,almost like a collaborative team
for that reentry process,documentation or any instances
(45:08):
where they should be notated inthe file and then given to the
parole officer.
So there's this continuity.
It's very choppy.
Our justice system in Americais very choppy, right, like the
police, and I can't tell you howmany cases I worked in and
you're like what happened to it,like you just don't know.
So you know you have andeverybody has their role and
function.
But just making sure that thecommunication is there, that we
(45:30):
leverage technology then to havethat receipt and the PSI, the
great.
You know that's a great, likeyou mentioned earlier that's a
great document to kind ofcapture all of everything that
happened before thatincarceration and then having
some type of way to then capturewhat happens in incarceration
so that individuals can be moresuccessful post-release.
(45:52):
And hopefully they don't return, but we know that some people
will and then you have thatrecord if they do have another
instance.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
You know, in mental health I may get this wrong.
Somebody will let me know if Ido.
I think they were soap notesand we used to be able to do
soap notes and those would trackacross nurses, psychiatrists,
psychologists, officers we couldall see them.
It'd be interesting if we coulddo that with just the regular
inmate.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
Right, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I think communication is power,right.
And then having the wonderfulpractitioners that we have we
have a lot, and I know I'mpreaching to the choir here, but
we have a lot of good men andwomen who are serving in the
capacity, in mission-criticalcapacity, of COs and POs.
right Again, like I know thepolice officers typically like
(46:41):
on the LA screens, right, andthe movies and everything but
man, the work, there are a lotof people who really want to get
it right and want to helpindividuals and I just I always
appreciate meeting those CEOswhen I go inside of a facility
that that gives a darn aboutlike OK, I want John Doe to be
successful, you can't be aknucklehead while you're in my
(47:01):
facility.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
Right, I hold you accountable.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
But I want, I care and I want you to be successful,
and so it's just alwaysrefreshing to know that we still
have those men and women and wecontinue to have them and
recruit that type of talentacross different agencies in
this country.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
Yeah, you talked about successful and I just put
it together.
This week has been one of themost interesting examples of
inmate success.
Josh is it Smith?
I think it is that was justannounced as the deputy director
of the federal Bureau ofprisons.
He did time and came out.
(47:39):
Apparently, from everythingI've read, has done an amazing
as an entrepreneur and is nowgoing to be part of leading the
Bureau of prisonsisons Isn'tthat remarkable?
Speaker 2 (47:50):
I mean the idea of second chances and people who
deserve second chances, likehumanizing the experience of
incarceration and reentry andthen, you know, allowing people
the opportunity to be impactfulright Like.
Josh's story speaks exactly tothat.
Yeah, so he's a Tennessean andyeah, he's just a wonderful guy.
(48:13):
I saw him a couple months backat a Correctional Leaders
Association conference and he'sdoing wonderful impactful work
impacting the lives of otherindividuals who are just as
impacted or formerlyincarcerated, and so I'm super
excited to see how he changesthat agency and brings the
agency forward, because I thinklived experience gives him a
(48:35):
different perspective.
It's just like I mean, I thinkof it as my way of being a
former practitioner like thatlived experience running
agencies and having that lawenforcement experience allows me
to better inform technology,and I think that you're going to
see that same correlation andthe work that Josh does and the
impact that he has.
So it is a wonderful day andthe fact that he has the
(48:56):
background and he's a reallygreat person is just like I,
just love to see it.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
So, yeah, yeah, I'm excited.
I know that there's a bunch ofcorrectional officers out there
going, wow, we can't do this.
Um, when you take a look at andjust what I've read, uh, he's
been extremely successful.
Um, yes, he's showing himselfto have made a change.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
Yeah, yes, absolutely tangible work like you can't
deny that.
It's almost like, why can't wedo it right?
Like why can't we do so?
I think we have to.
I think corrections, lawenforcement, we have to get out
of the comfort zone and look,that was probably the hardest
thing to break earlier in mycareer and my ideation about,
like how to impact justicesystems is this is the
(49:40):
regimented way, the paramilitarystyle that was like ingrained
in me from day one and you know,over time I understood that
we're dealing with complexpeople are complex and but for
the grace of God, there go, Ioftentimes we'll say, in the
South, right, so you never knowwhat situations or happenstance
(50:03):
leads individuals to theircriminal offense.
But I think that we should openthe door and invite them for a
possibility of change.
And who better?
Or a possibility to change?
But who better than a personwho has proven themselves
post-release in ways that we cango back and see their impact?
(50:23):
But who better to step in andkind of shake it up a little bit
, like let's challenge thestatus quo and hopefully we will
be better because of it?
You know, five years from now,we look back and we're like man,
that was a, it was a great calland it takes nothing away from
those people who, like you and I, who are traditional.
You know, you came up throughthe ranks and and kind of um.
(50:44):
You know, like, I think I callit the gritty climb, like I've
had the gritty climb, um,there's.
It takes nothing away, I think.
Um, the collective brain trustin order for us to advance, um,
the the area of correction isneeded.
Why not now, like now's thetime?
Speaker 1 (51:01):
Absolutely.
What a great, what a greatconversation.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
If people want, to get ahold of your uh, and I'll
put it down here in the shownotes, of course, with links and
stuff.
But tell people how to getahold of you and your agent or
your company.
My fault.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
Yeah, so I'm all over LinkedIn.
Um, certainly, please, please,uh, reach out to me on LinkedIn.
I'm happy to to talk to peopleand connect with people.
Um, secure us and inventive?
Um, I certainly we will.
We will certainly add those inthe in the show notes.
But if you Google Securus orAventa, if you Google my name
with the Securus or Aventa, likeit will pop up.
(51:35):
So we're, we're everywhere,probably in a neighborhood near
most of you, and, yeah, I'm opento further dialogue and coming
out and talking to anybody aboutour impactful technology.
Speaker 1 (51:48):
Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come
talk to us and I learned a lotabout probation and parole and
and tablets and your company andI appreciate that.
I think a lot of people will beglad to hear it.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
Absolutely have a great day.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Thank you, hey before we go, I'd like to take a
minute to thank one of oursponsors.
Omnini Real-Time LocatingSystem is a company I've been
working closely with for years.
I'm proud to be a part of thisinnovative team that's developed
the best real-time locatingsystem on the market today for
your jail or prison.
Omni's PREA-compliant real-timemonitoring technology is the
(52:24):
very best way to track andrecord your inmate's locations,
their movements, theirinteractions, throughout every
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Imagine getting an alarm thesecond an escape happens, or an
alert that lets you know when aninmate's heart rate drops below
a set level.
To learn more about Omni, go towwwomnirtlscom.
(52:48):
That's omnirtlscom.
That's omnirtlscom.
Or you can click on today'sshow notes to get in the
information guide.
Omni Real-Time Locating Systemis a powerful tool specifically
designed for the moderncorrectional professional.
If you haven't done so, pleasetake a moment to like my podcast
or, better yet, hit thesubscribe button so that you'll
(53:08):
be notified when the nextepisode comes out.
Thanks for listening and let'sbe safe out there.
Hello and welcome back to the Prison Officer
Podcast.
Before we get to our topictoday, I just want to take a
minute to thank one of oursponsors.
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and the Pepperball Blast is justone more way to deliver a
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(00:22):
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(00:42):
This will quickly cover theinmate and saturate the cell.
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on the show notes today formore information.
Pepperball is the safer optionfirst.
(01:03):
Hey, welcome back everybody.
This is Mike Cantrell with thePrison Officer Podcast.
Today I've got a guest, aliciaSchultz-James.
She is the Senior VicePresident and General Manager
and Account Manager at AventiveTechnologies, where she oversees
national accounts relationships, leads a team to ensure client
(01:23):
success.
Previously, she served asSenior Vice President of the
Post-Incarceration Business Unitat Eventive's subsidiary
Securus Technologies,spearheading the strategic
expansion of reentry resourcesand tech solutions for
justice-involved individuals.
She began her career in lawenforcement as a Nashville
police officer and later becamea federal probation officer and
(01:47):
is still very active, includingshe's part of the table and I'm
going to have to ask what thatis and the executives
transforming probation andparole.
So she's still very active inlaw enforcement and corrections
and reentry.
So welcome to the PrisonOfficer Podcast, alicia.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, thank you, Michael.
Thank you for having me andthank you for whoever scripted
that beautiful bio.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah, you know we haven't done a lot of probation
and parole on here, so I'minterested to hear, of course,
how you got there.
We did have the president ofthe Missouri chapter of the
Probation and Parole Association, but that was a couple of years
ago, so I'm going to dig intothat as we go along.
But I always start off with thesame stuff.
(02:32):
Can you tell me where you grewup and how you got into law
enforcement?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah, definitely.
Thank you for having me Excitedto be here and share with your
listeners.
So, originally from Detroit,michigan, and always had a knack
, a love for law enforcement andthe public safety, public
interaction component of it likepublic servant interaction
component of it Went toundergrad in Tennessee and I
(02:59):
thought that I would go back toDetroit to be a police officer
and fell in love with Nashville.
Fell in love with the city.
The crime rate was a little bitlower than Detroit and so I
just decided to stay inNashville and tested to become a
police officer.
I actually was in my junioryear so luckily I met my husband
before I tested to become apolice officer, because I could
(03:23):
tell you, junior year of college, being a cop was it was very
interesting.
But but yeah, and then juststayed, stayed in Nashville
thereafter.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, so were there people in corrections or law
enforcement in your family?
Had you seen that already?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yes, I had.
So my, my uncle, my father'sbrother, um was a Lieutenant in
the Detroit um police force andum, unfortunately he lost his
life in the line of duty.
He was um, he was going in, hewas actually just ending his
shift and went into a fast foodrestaurant to pick up some
(04:00):
dinner.
Um, uh, a guy subject dude wasrobbing, uh, the the was robbing
the establishment.
My uncle announced himself andthe assailant got a drop on my
uncle and unfortunately hesuccumbed to his gunshot wound.
But he lived for a few yearsafter being shot.
(04:21):
But that was really so you canimagine my parents' surprise.
That's powerful.
When I went from wanting to be aspecial education teacher early
in life to wanting to be apolice officer, they were like
you want to do what?
And then the family history ofit, but it really it connected
me to legacy Again, thinkingabout how police officers serve
the public.
It was a very, it was a strongsense of pride and community in
(04:44):
Detroit and so that connection,the connection to the community,
really drove me to say yeah, Iwant to serve my public, the
public, in this way.
That's going to be mycontribution.
And that's kind of where it allstarted.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Excellent.
So when you became a lawenforcement officer and I know
there's surprises, we all havethose moments when we get in
there and we go, wow, I didn'texpect this.
What were some of the thingsthat you learned about yourself
and learned about the worldactually?
Right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
So I had a very fortunate upbringing, lived with
my siblings, my parents, and so, even though I'm from Detroit,
it was the, you know, the moreaffluent parts of Detroit, right
.
And so policing introduced meto other components of society
and really the gray areas inlife where people are on a
(05:39):
straight and narrow path and geta substance use, addiction or,
you know, drinking or some typeof critical incident that really
derails them.
So it allowed me to see kind ofthe multiple dimensions in
human behavior in, you know, insociety.
And so when I first became apolice officer I wanted to be a
(06:00):
homicide detective.
And that was.
You know, the crime shows werebig when I was in high school
and so I thought, man, I want tosolve murders.
And I visited a police precinctthe 8th Precinct in Detroit
when I was like a junior in highschool.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
And.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
I was like, you know, there was closure to a case
that a police officer, aninvestigator, had worked on and
there was a victim, a familymember of the victim, there, and
they were talking about howthis detective, this
investigator, allowed them tohave closure.
And so when I first became apolice officer, I said, okay,
you know what I want to do, thatI want to go out and close
(06:38):
these cases and serve mycommunity in this way.
And I will tell you, like Imentioned, I was a junior in
college.
So by the time I graduated thepolice force I'm sorry, oh yeah
(07:00):
our third call of the first day,and it was it was a homicide
call.
And of course, patrol inNashville patrol is called out,
of course first to just likeassess the scene and call in a
homicide unit.
And I went on the scene and likewithin like five minutes I was
like I don't think I want to dohomicide anymore, like that.
So it really surprised me,because I had this buildup of
(07:23):
years of you know what I mean,from high school to undergrad
and then a first week on a job,and was like, yeah, I don't
really want to you know, want todo homicide.
But I knew that I had found mypassion for what I was doing in
the capacity of law enforcementat that time.
But I was surprised that likequickly, I was like no, I don't
want to stare at dead bodies.
It was kind of it wasn't mything.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
That's interesting because you know you're right.
The initial part of a homicideis here, and that's a whole
different thing than thatclosure at the end, which would
be so gratifying.
Wow, Exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
So how long did you stay with the Nashville PD?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Seven years I was a Nashville officer.
For seven years I worked patrol, worked a little bit of
undercover investigations, Iworked in background and
recruiting the training division.
So I had an opportunity to movearound a little bit within my
seven years and then we had likemaybe every month where we had
(08:20):
to go out and do actual patrolwork to connect us with, you
know, the community still, nomatter where you were, if you
were in training or whatnot.
And I always will say during mytenure at the at MMPD, serving
in patrol, and connecting withthe community and just being a
(08:40):
brush like it's, the vibrancy of, of that position.
That was probably my favoritein my in my law enforcement
career.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Nice, yeah.
Um, so next thing you moved towas federal probation and parole
.
Yeah, so I did that come along.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
I know Right.
So I had earned my master'sdegree.
I had no plans of getting anadvanced degree, but I had.
I earned my master's degreewhile I was a police officer and
you know it really opened myeyes up.
I thought about when I was apolice officer I thought about
the way to move up was to makesergeant, lieutenant, you know,
captain, commander, and was kindof focused on growing in my
(09:19):
career that way.
And then I thought about, okay,dea, fbi, atf, right like
Tennessee Bureau ofInvestigation.
And I thought about, okay, dea,fbi, atf, right Like Tennessee
Bureau of Investigations.
And I thought about, okay,there's an opportunity there for
me to grow my career that way.
When I got my master's degree,I was open to like there are a
whole lot of three-letteragencies out there federal
agencies that people typicallylike I did, I just was not
(09:42):
familiar with.
And I was fortunate enough to doa temporary duty assignment at
the White House, actually whileI was a police officer, and
during that seven months itreally opened up my mind to
think through what could be apossibility, you know, in my
career.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
And.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I understood that the federal probation where I was
was a in the Middle District ofTennessee.
The role of a federal probationofficer is still a law
enforcement-oriented role but,it's much more adjacent to the
court.
You work within the courtsystem, you can write
pre-sentence reports, pre-trialreports, do supervision, and so
(10:20):
it was almost a naturalextension of after incarceration
Right.
So there's a very tactical.
You know, you lock somebody up,you work the case, you go and
you testify in court, right, andthen they serve their their
period of time.
And then that that transitionwhen individuals come out into
the community.
There's a whole host of workwith that, a whole host of work
(10:48):
with that, and so I thought thatit was unique enough and
challenging enough but veryclosely aligned to law
enforcement.
Where I had the opportunityafter I finished my master's
degree and that was arequirement, that was a
prerequisite for Middle Districtof Tennessee was that you had
to have an advanced degree, andso I thought what better way to
put that to use.
You had to have an advanceddegree, and so I thought what
better way to put that to use,and it was such an enlightening
experience understanding federallaw and understanding the
(11:13):
judicial system at that time,like in that season of you know,
armed career, criminal, andlearning different statute, how
to apply sentencing guidelinesto individuals who had been
convicted of crimes, to betterinform federal judges.
It just took me down a very, Ithink, a deep road with
(11:36):
understanding criminality in adifferent way, right.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
And understanding that, while my previous
experience as a police officerwas very Black and white,
understanding that, while myprevious experience as a police
officer was very black and white, like if you're there
disturbing the peace or you'recommitting a crime, then you
know, then we, then there has tobe an intervention and I have
to restore peace as a as apolice officer.
But there there were.
(12:02):
There was the gray areas in lifethat I saw much more abundantly
during my time as a federalprobation officer and then
talking to individuals, familymembers, talking to victims of
crimes, understanding that, andso you stand in the middle of
kind of the instant offense thatoccurred, and then the
individual having redemption atlife and coming out and being
more successful as theyreintegrate into society, right.
(12:24):
And then driving accountabilityand structure for them.
So it was a very unique rolethat a lot of people was like.
I don't really understand thatfederal probation officers, you
know, have that type of scope,but it was.
It was very impactful.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Well, I got to ask you a question, and this is
something for me to learn from,because I've seen the other end
of apparently what you did,which is PSIs you know
pre-sentencing reports so as afederal correctional officer
that was something that welooked at, something that we
sometimes went and studied.
So, for my own information, canyou tell me a little bit about
(12:57):
what you guys do for that,Because it is such an
encompassing of their life?
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yes, it's a very humbling experience.
I will tell you to write psisfor federal judges because, um,
you know, again, I had.
You know, you go to school andyou get the degrees, whatever,
and you have these lifeexperiences and then to be able
to recount a person's life, tobe able to, with dignity and
(13:28):
respect, inform the courts,inform the BOP, inform every you
know, all interested partyattorneys about the individual
with fact-based andresource-based information.
It is definitely a lift, andsometimes those reports would be
anywhere from 30 pages to 100pages, right, like you,
definitely a lift, and sometimesthose reports would be anywhere
from 30 pages to 100 pages,right.
Like you've seen that, and ifthe criminal histories are
(13:49):
extensive, being able toappropriately calculate the
criminal histories that go intothat and all of those
calculations set the judge upfor understanding the
appropriateness of a sentenceright, there are some, you know.
If a person's criminal historyis more tenured and lengthier,
then at a certain point, youknow, some criminal history
(14:12):
would just be lumped togetherfor a point basis.
But it was, you know, I wouldsay, interviewing everyone from
the attorneys to any familymembers that can give insight to
the incarcerated individualthemselves right, like
understanding how their familymembers have played into kind of
(14:34):
their experiences or theirlifestyles, right.
And then, and being able toarticulate that story again in a
very posture, was somethingthat, like you said, so many
people who had to use a PSI andit's so critical for sentencing
and mandates of the court,judges being able to mandate the
(14:55):
appropriate types ofrehabilitation programming or
education or suggestionsthereafter, or even a probation
officer, post-release or superpost-release supervision officer
, being able to drive compliancewith the person, understanding
their background and history,all of that is the foundation
for how a person moves forwardand I've always I mean in that
(15:16):
time I really doubled down onthe idea that the person is not
their lowest moment.
Typically, what is what isdeemed as their lowest moment of
that instant offense?
Right, but it took place.
What are the parameters thatcan help this person become a
more successful, productivemember of society, and who are
(15:37):
the respective community playersor law enforcement players that
can help that personrehabilitate and be more
successful in the community?
So, that was the scope of it.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
So that's interesting , that that was the way you were
focused.
That's not the way I saw itfrom my end.
But, that's interesting thatyou know.
I worked at a medical center inSpringfield, Missouri, which
has a lot of mental health, andsometimes you look at those guys
and go, how did they end uplike this?
And you look at the PSI andit's scary, it's sad.
(16:08):
You can't believe.
Some of those people have wentthrough and I'm not one of those
people that makes excuses.
you know you make choices inlife but, some people didn't get
a fair shake, and we used tosee that.
But we also used it when wespoke with them and when we had
problems with them, because Icould go back and find out what
(16:28):
meant something to them and havea conversation.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yes, so interesting to hear about that, thank you.
Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, I meanthat's the that you hit the nail
on the head, right Like it's atool that's leveraged at
different points of the you knowof the criminal justice process
to better inform.
But, yeah, like someindividuals that came across my
desk, I just thought to myselfmy God, right Like the you know
(16:53):
being introduced to substancesat four and five years old, or
you know, victims, a lot ofvictims of violence or sexual
assault or different things thatyou know that it's just you
could imagine why you can betterunderstand why they're having
the challenges that they werehaving like during their time in
the justice system.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
So, yeah, so how long did you stay with federal
probation and parole?
Speaker 2 (17:15):
So almost five years.
And then I had a mentor whocalled me and said, hey, I hear
that the state is looking for aprobation administrator and I
thought I really like thefederal system.
We had a lot of the newertechnology.
It was a very interesting role.
Definitely, I would say, moremore sophisticated understanding
(17:40):
of the application of law thanthan my tenure at the police
department.
But I was looking for achallenge specifically around
leadership, like I said Imentioned.
I mentioned I had finished mydegree and I had studied some
things in leadership and I hadmanaged small teams.
But I wanted to just stick myfoot in the water, stick my toe
in the water at a largerleadership opportunity and I
(18:03):
went from that experience, thatfederal experience, to
supervising about 300 people upunder my chain of command.
So I had, I think, four directreports, but the first region
that I supervised was aroundthree to 400 staff who were
responsible for about 21,000probationers and parolees in the
(18:23):
region.
And so I went to the state ofTennessee, tennessee Department
of Correction up under theProbation Parole Community
Corrections Division and fromregional director to probation
administrator to finallyassistant commissioner, where I
oversaw the entire divisionProbation Parole, community
(18:45):
Corrections a staff of 1,200,900 were sworn and
responsibility for 78,000individuals reentering society.
Again, it elevated the way thatI thought about the application
of justice, post-release andreally the idea of what could
true rehabilitation look likeand that balance of true
(19:09):
rehabilitation and allowing anavenue for that while making
sure that the peace and theprotection of society remain
whole right, like we had amission to protect you know,
protect the public right and, asindividuals who committed these
crimes, reenter society, makingsure that we understand where
(19:31):
they're living, what they'redoing, if they're going to
programming, if they have a job,gainful employment, coming in
for drug testing.
But that role I mean itdefinitely deepened my
leadership experience, obviouslysupervising that many people
over 95 counties but leading 900officers Right Like people who
(19:53):
are sworn and had.
You know guns and you knowdrove marked cars or whatnot A
very different function than apolice officer.
But you know the public, publicperception around.
You know probation officers andtheir authority is similar, and
so I had to artfully anddistinctly draw that separation
(20:15):
for the probation officers to beand parole officers to be
impactful.
But, understanding that our jobswere much different than
traditional law enforcement andwe had a duty to the state to
ensure kind of this, to allow anavenue for a behavior
modification for theseindividuals, the people who are
up under probation and parole.
(20:36):
They had already served theirtime, so our job was not, as
probation and parole officers,to be punitive and to you know
what I mean like try to in someway de-incentivize success.
If anything, we wanted to givethem avenues to change their
behavior and then, you know,become productive members of
society.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Right, you know one thing I've talked about with
correctional officers that Idon't think gets brought out,
and I think it's the same.
You tell me, with probation andparole we have more power in
one way to say it for take awaysomebody's freedom than a police
officer does.
Yeah, you know, I can write areport and I'll get two more
(21:17):
years you know, you can violatethem and send them back and
they're going to go for two orthree more years and I don't
think we look at that sometimesas the burden or the
responsibility that it is.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, that's very true.
And when you think about itlike it's a tremendous
responsibility, and that's why Ithink like the for me, when I
look at what at that point, youknow, looking at employees and
the staff that we have around us, making sure that we have
leaders that understood that wewant to cultivate a culture
where people respected, you know, the power that they have and
(21:51):
they're humanizing theexperience.
Now listen as much as like theold school police officer in me,
right like we understand thatyou know if there is an
infraction that takes place andsomeone needs to be held
accountable, balancing thatmindset and driving
accountability with opening upthe door and allowing an avenue
(22:13):
for change.
But there were some people,undoubtedly, who did not take
the help and who would not youknow what I mean Like they did
not, you know, respect theconditions of their release or
their probation and ultimatelyhad to go back into an
incarcerated setting, and it wasappropriate.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Right.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
And just like having.
That's why I say is it likecorrectional officers, probation
officers?
They're very unique positionsbecause they may not be in that
many LA, you know, movies orwhatever.
It may not be on the big screen, but it's a, they're very,
they're key and critical rolesfor how justice is, you know,
administered in some waysthroughout the justice system
(22:55):
and it's an important role insociety for sure.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
I know corrections does, I know probation and
parole does.
But we also affect thatperson's lifelong feelings,
understanding about justice.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
And when somebody feels like they've lost justice
because even I mean you'vetalked to them they know that
they're in there for what theydid.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
There's no doubt about it.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
I accept it and I'm going to do my time, but we can
steal that from them also bytreating them wrong.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Right, Absolutely.
I work closely with, obviously,the incarceration, the
assistant commissioner that wasover operations of the
incarcerated individuals, and itwas always a push and pull
around.
How do we balance what thatreentry process looks like,
making sure that the probationor parole officer are going
inside the institution prior torelease and making sure that we
had continuity of services asthey release into society?
(23:57):
And then you know, it's just,it's a coordination, right, and
I think that if you lack thatcoordination or that continuity
of services individuals couldhave could not be, you know, as
successful because they aren'tbeing introduced to here's a job
when you first come out hereare housing resources, here are
mental health resources, and soit is.
(24:18):
You know it's key and critical.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
One of the most impactful things for me.
I started off at Missouri State, penn, which is now a museum
that tells you how old I am, andone of the first inmates I
walked out had done like 35years and they handed him a
check for like $3.47.
Wow, and the guard?
We were guards back then butthe lieutenant said and don't
(24:42):
come back.
And my brain's just going well,what do you think he's going to
go back to?
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
We didn't give him anything,you know, we didn't give him
anything yeah yeah, we're betterthan that.
now, right, exactly, we didn'tgive him anything.
We didn't give him anything.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, we're better than that now, right.
Exactly, I was getting ready tosay the evolution of corrections
and thinking about even my role.
That's why I love what I do somuch.
I mean the technology component.
I know we're getting there, butI would be remiss if I didn't
say this is reentry.
Today looks markably differentthan reentry 10, 15 years ago.
(25:14):
In most cases, especially inthe environments, when we're
able to deploy technology and Ihave the privilege of serving
and partnering with over half ofthe prisons and jails in
America to be able to deliversecure technology that benefits
the incarcerated individuals butalso benefits the officers, and
(25:35):
I'm not going to lie.
I think early in my career Iwould have never understood the
power of a tablet and how youcan put education and reentry
information on a tabletIndividuals they can consume
that in their cell.
They can consume that, like whenI was in, when I was, even when
I was assistant commissioner wedidn't have tablets in our
(25:55):
facilities and people.
We would have to wait until wehad a seat in that classroom for
John or Jane to go get theprogramming that they need.
That was a condition of releaseand so it's a prerequisite for
release and that individual youknow would be maintained in that
correctional environment.
the costs associated with them,treating them right, like that,
(26:17):
everything operationally thatgoes around you know, keeping a
person in custody, but when weintroduce tablets into the
environment, then now you takeyour 30 seats that you have
available every month and youmultiply that to what is
appropriate for the content andyou know education is being
delivered and now everyone hasthat equal access.
(26:37):
So you think about just.
It's like a release of apressure valve from an
operational perspective and thenfrom a contention perspective
from the, you know, from theincarcerated individuals.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
And something I've seen over the years from the
incarcerated individuals.
I've seen them go to theteachers and say, hey, I want to
learn this, but I can't sit inclass.
I've seen them hide textbooks.
I've seen them reading up onstuff in their cell that they
can't show the others becausethat makes them look bad or they
lose face or whatever.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly.
And now like, if an individualis on a tablet, they don't know
if they're looking at you knowlistening to music or looking at
(27:28):
a book, or you know what I meanreading you know the newest
novel that they choose toconsume?
Right, to be better connectedwith their loved ones.
Right, we want to facilitatephone calls and conversations
and e-messaging and pictures oftheir kids, because we want
individuals to get out and havethat technology allows that
facilitation to happen withoutinterference, you know, or
(27:56):
operational, I guess,interference from administrators
, right.
So we're always thinking atAvento Secures.
We're always thinking about theofficer, right?
How does this technology thatwe're introducing into the
environment, how does itstreamline operations for the
officer?
How does it make theenvironment more safe, more
(28:17):
productive, keeps theincarcerated individuals calm at
a lower pressure point, right?
I mean, all of those things arebenefits that we saw and that
we continue to see as we deployour technology.
So you know, that was one ofthe reasons when I think back to
why I transitioned ultimatelytransitioned out of traditional
(28:38):
kind of corrections or lawenforcement is I wanted, I was
really interested aboutinnovation.
Where can we take, you know,innovative solutions and be able
to innovate in a way thatimpacts the reentry process that
better connects people as theyare returning from an
incarcerated space.
(29:00):
And I launched a couple ofbusinesses.
I launched a businessspecifically about this called
Quick Touch, and I had aconnection with Securus and
Securus said, look, we're reallytrying to do this reentry thing
, we want to be able to provideconnection for individuals.
And I'm like great, because Ijust, you know, had I've had all
this experience with thepopulation that you're trying to
(29:20):
serve.
And so we connected Securus andI connected and I came within
the in the organization to helpkind of further the advancement
of providing the reentry andrehabilitation arm of the
organization and that has justtaken off.
Like I have colleagues now whooversee that, I've moved into an
(29:43):
account manager role where I,you know, stand between the
customer and the business,making sure that we have a
balanced approach.
But we have some.
You said it one more time.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
I'm just agreeing.
Yes, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
So we have wonderful people over our education system
and people who have had theexperience of working in
correctional environments aseducators now working to
strengthen our platform.
So it's just I mean it reallyis a.
People ask me all the time likehow did you wind up like you're
working as a patrol officer?
How did you wind up in tech?
Right, it was that hunger forsolutions, because I understand
(30:21):
and I understood that governmentenvironment.
Sometimes you're you're so busy, like making sure that you keep
the bus moving right and keepthose wheels on the bus turning,
that having strong partnersthat can come in and say, hey,
here's a solution that you maynot be thinking of because
you're doing this mission,critical work, and here's how we
can collaborate to make yourlife and your job easier.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
So for people that don't know, kind of run me
through what's a tablet, looklike what's on there, the
security that's involved andwhat's the options that they
have.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Yeah, so this is where I'm going to have you put
up, like populate, an image ofthe tablet right, we can
probably do that Right.
In the playback.
We'll have the image there.
We'll have the image there.
But right now we haveundeniably the most secure
technology for a correctionalenvironment, both from an
(31:18):
officer perspective and theincarcerated individual's
perspective.
Our new tablet is called EvoTab.
It is a modular design tabletthat allows individuals to
consume media, education,rehabilitative services, make
phone calls from their tablet.
So now there's not a monopolyon the phone on the wall for
(31:39):
individuals where they have toclamor or fight over that phone
on the wall.
They have that at theirfingertips.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Well, let me ask you real quick here.
So I was talking the other dayabout these new FCC guidelines.
How does that affect this?
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Do inmates get?
Speaker 1 (31:54):
charged for using the tablet to talk to family.
Does that go over, okay?
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yes, it's just like you or I if we you know on our
cell phones or our tablets thereis a cost for that.
You know that communication.
Essentially, the FCC has comein and said that the cost of a
phone call or a video call iscapped based on the side of the
agency, right?
And so, based on if it's a DOCor a county, there are rate caps
(32:20):
in place.
It does not limit the amount ofcommunication, it does not
limit the types of communicationor material that is, you know,
on the tablet.
Of course we always work withagencies to make sure that the
you know material music, movies,games are within the scope and
(32:42):
policy of the agency.
But essentially the agency willdrive that and guide that.
The FCC simply says that it'sappropriate to have rate caps.
And when you think aboutrehabilitation and you think
about the need to connectindividuals to their family.
We support having communicationthat has appropriate cost for
(33:06):
incarcerated individuals.
Me or you, we have to pay forour cell phone service, right,
and there's a cost to that.
But we agree and we support theidea that that should not be
extreme costs where people areunable to have meaningful
conversations.
So we support thatwholeheartedly.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
So on the tablets, is it like FaceTime or is it like
a phone call, or both?
Right?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
So it can be either, yeah, it can be either, or it
just depends.
Every agency is different.
You can imagine that, right,like every county is different,
every, every DOC is different.
We have devices that aremounted on a wall, where there
are, you know, like just a videoterminal type device.
There are agencies that willallow for the video connectivity
(33:48):
on the tablet, or there canjust be, you know, straight
phone calling on the tablet.
But, yes, individuals canreceive pictures from their
loved ones, they can correspondon email, they can correspond in
a text-like solution.
And, from an operationalperspective, while we appreciate
(34:08):
and we want to facilitate thosecommunications, we want to make
sure that that's done in a waythat promotes a safe and secure
and you know, safe and secureenvironments allow people to do
their time in a way thatpromotes rehabilitation.
(34:34):
Right, and if you talk to a lotof incarcerated individuals,
which I'm sure you have overyour tenure, they don't want the
time foolery either, right?
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Like they don't want to deal.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
They just want to do their time, you know, digest
some rehabilitative content forthe most part, work a job right,
get positioned to be successfulpost-release and then go out in
society and release.
And so I think ourinvestigative tools are tools
for the officers to really drivebehavioral management on
incarcerated individuals'devices.
(35:04):
All of those are tools and thetool belt for the officers to be
successful while managing thepopulation.
And kind of.
What I mean by that is that theofficer would have his own
tablet, right, so he or shewould have their own tablet, and
then incarcerated individualshave their own tablets.
Let's just say that there arebehavioral issues with specific
(35:25):
individuals and perhaps theyneed to have some type of
restriction.
Maybe their tablet should onlybe used for phone calling and
messaging, and that officer saysJohn Doe, you know the
behavioral health model, riskneeds responsivity.
We're going to make sure that wetake away the music and the
(35:45):
media.
The officer then can leveragetheir tablet and then go in and
do that behavioral modificationso that John Doe loses the
privilege until they have proventhemselves appropriate to have
those devices or those services,and then they can turn them
back on.
So we really try to empower ouragency and our administrators
(36:06):
to think through what's the bestway to supervise the population
.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Sure, and you know, I've seen County jails that have
got 40 inmates and there's noway that they have the access if
they want to learn somethingnew, if they want to do
something.
But I would guess with thesetablets it's almost unlimited
what they can sit there andlearn.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Absolutely.
The really cool thing about ournew Evo tab is that we have the
Google Play Store on the Evo taband so we can interface with
third parties.
Of course the agencies wouldhave to give us a blessing for
that, but we can interface withthird parties to offer reentry
content that is custom.
They're third parties to offerreentry content that is custom,
(36:49):
their third parties, as customto the communities that
individuals are releasing fromright.
So the jail population a lotdifferent from the DOC
population, as you know, but foryour listeners, right, like
that, the jail population areshorter stays and so when you
think about the importance ofdigesting content that's going
to help for that rehabilitative,you know that facilitate that
(37:12):
successful rehabilitation itbecomes important for an
individual to be able to gettheir device and begin to
download that information andconsume that information as soon
as they're in facility and notwait to be placed into a class
DOCs.
The beautiful thing about theopportunity I would say with
(37:33):
DOCs is that incarceratedindividuals can take consume
education programs that arelengthier in time.
So think about two-year degrees, think about GED training,
right, so you have the timethere for longer facilitation
and consumption of educationmaterial.
So it really regardless ifyou're talking about short stay
(37:54):
21 days or long stay five or sixyears, 10 years the devices are
used differently depending onthe needs of the individuals.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Well, the thing that hit my mind while you were
talking about the jail theresometimes you want to get that
to them at that moment.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Because that might be the moment they've said I need
to make a change, something'snot going right here and if you
wait they're going to get backinto that system.
They get more criminallyeducated.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
There you go.
So I could absolutely see thereason to get that in their hand
immediately.
You know, I was just in a jailin Georgia, actually yesterday,
and I was hearing from theiradministrator that said, when we
first like, the tension in thejail before tablets was
extremely high.
You'll walk to the day room.
People are yelling, you know.
(38:43):
And he said, when we put thetablets in there, like it just
brought the tension down sosignificantly and even the
volume of the day rooms.
Because people are focused oneither they might be consuming
music right, like they.
It can be relaxation too, rightLike we, we.
But we understand thattechnology allows for the
environments to be moreconducive to rehabilitation than
(39:08):
those without Like.
There are uses of force,incidents, right, and there's no
studies that directly correlatethat instituting tablets drives
down use of force.
So this is anecdotal, I justwant to make sure I say that for
the record.
But we have seen and we'veheard from administrators that
they have noticed that the usesof force have decreased when you
(39:31):
introduce technology, becausepeople are occupied.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Absolutely, and I can even tell you from old school.
I worked in a prison.
Everybody had a TV.
You didn't want to lose your TV.
So I'm absolutely sure thatthey don't want to lose their
tablet.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yeah, and that was a deterrent.
Yes, absolutely.
Yeah, and that was a deterrent.
Yeah, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Absolutely.
And you know again, workingwith the agencies to understand
how the technology can continueto further their mission.
Right, we're, we are inpartnership.
We don't.
We don't ideate in a silo, likethat's one thing with our
agency or with our organization,that we don't.
We don't ideate in a silo.
We make sure that we go out andwe talk to leaders, we talk to
(40:14):
practitioners and we say what doyou need, what is going to
benefit you as operators in thisenvironment?
And we come back to the geniusminds that we have within our
organization.
Shout out to Melanie andLidgett and Jessica I don't want
to start, I shouldn't startsaying names, oh, that's good.
I'm going to miss somebody, butwe have some really impressive
(40:36):
people, charles Barrasso, thatwe will bring the use cases to
and then they will help usfurther develop what we need to
develop right.
I was working with a colleaguehis name is Liv, since I'm
naming people and you know wewere talking about the
investigative services and waysto strengthen the investigative
(40:57):
services, and I'm going to tellyou it wasn't you know a couple
months later that there was thisfirst scope of how to advance
that understanding that ourtools and our technology really,
as we move forward, is we're astaple in the way that prisons
and jails are run in America andwe are dang proud of that.
So, you know, and I'm proud tobe a part of the team too.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Sure.
So what's this team working onnow?
What's for the future?
What are you guys bringingforward?
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Yeah, the future is here, right, with the Evo tab,
and we will continue to seefurther iterations of our
technology.
So, strengthening of theapplications that we bring to
(41:53):
the environment, you know, moresecure connectivity and
communications to.
You know the short term, orwhat do we call it?
Stc?
So it's like a text messagingfeature, right, making sure that
, like that was revolutionarywhen we think about from phone
calls to e-messaging, to STC.
Just making sure that wecontinue to strengthen those
products and services.
Sure that we continue tostrengthen those products and
services.
Increasing the type of mediacontent that we have, making
(42:13):
sure that, while we want all ofthe publications and the books
and everything that we offer,the blockbusters too, right.
So just understanding andhaving that balance, the newest
music for the incarceratedindividuals.
From the officer side, it'sreally exciting because
everything from the safety andsecurity, the investigative
tools that we're developing andbringing to market, continue to
(42:36):
evolve on our platform forofficer tablets, right.
Just a strength in theconnectivity and the reliability
of what we do as we continue toevolve that of what we do as we
continue to evolve that.
So we're excited.
We're excited to partner withagencies that are
forward-leaning and hear fromthem as we continue to develop
our products and services.
(42:57):
And I mean selfishly when Ithink about my time as a police
officer, when I think about mytime running an agency or as a
federal probation officer.
I wish that I would have hadsome of these tools and
understanding the content thatpeople you know either consume
in an incarcerated environment.
Probation really doesn't know.
In America, like I will say, alarge part probation really
(43:19):
doesn't know what people, orparole officers they don't know
what people are doing whilethey're incarcerated, right, and
so if we had some type ofdigital receipt to say here,
here's the content that wasconsumed, when we think about
scoping reentry plans forindividuals, that would be huge
Right, and our connectivity, ourtablets, allow for that digital
(43:40):
receipt of here was what wasconsumed, here are the hours
that were spent on it, and wecan give that to John or Jane
Doe or the agency, for you knowjust the iteration of a success
plan as they release intosociety.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Interesting?
Yeah, because on our part,unless they completed it and got
a certificate, we probablydidn't put it in their file
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
And then you don't see it.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
Right, exactly what can corrections and probation
and parole do to work togetherbetter, because I always feel
like we're separate and weshouldn't be as much, because
we're just handing them off.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Yeah, that was the biggest hurdle and I would say
you know, we did everything fromearlier reach-ins where you had
parole officers going insidethe facility, connectivity with
family members prior to John orJane Doe getting out, and more
than just a checkbox Becauseprobation and parole officers,
they would have to go and say,okay, is it a real house,
where's the address?
(44:40):
Who else is going to be there,mom or dad?
Make sure there are no weaponsin the house, but making sure
that there's connectivity withthe family to say you know John
or Jane Doe, you want them to besuccessful.
Tell me about other things thatyou know we should.
We should work on as like,almost like a collaborative team
for that reentry process,documentation or any instances
(45:08):
where they should be notated inthe file and then given to the
parole officer.
So there's this continuity.
It's very choppy.
Our justice system in Americais very choppy, right, like the
police, and I can't tell you howmany cases I worked in and
you're like what happened to it,like you just don't know.
So you know you have andeverybody has their role and
function.
But just making sure that thecommunication is there, that we
(45:30):
leverage technology then to havethat receipt and the PSI, the
great.
You know that's a great, likeyou mentioned earlier that's a
great document to kind ofcapture all of everything that
happened before thatincarceration and then having
some type of way to then capturewhat happens in incarceration
so that individuals can be moresuccessful post-release.
(45:52):
And hopefully they don't return, but we know that some people
will and then you have thatrecord if they do have another
instance.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
You know, in mental health I may get this wrong.
Somebody will let me know if Ido.
I think they were soap notesand we used to be able to do
soap notes and those would trackacross nurses, psychiatrists,
psychologists, officers we couldall see them.
It'd be interesting if we coulddo that with just the regular
inmate.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
Right, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I think communication is power,right.
And then having the wonderfulpractitioners that we have we
have a lot, and I know I'mpreaching to the choir here, but
we have a lot of good men andwomen who are serving in the
capacity, in mission-criticalcapacity, of COs and POs.
right Again, like I know thepolice officers typically like
(46:41):
on the LA screens, right, andthe movies and everything but
man, the work, there are a lotof people who really want to get
it right and want to helpindividuals and I just I always
appreciate meeting those CEOswhen I go inside of a facility
that that gives a darn aboutlike OK, I want John Doe to be
successful, you can't be aknucklehead while you're in my
(47:01):
facility.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
Right, I hold you accountable.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
But I want, I care and I want you to be successful,
and so it's just alwaysrefreshing to know that we still
have those men and women and wecontinue to have them and
recruit that type of talentacross different agencies in
this country.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
Yeah, you talked about successful and I just put
it together.
This week has been one of themost interesting examples of
inmate success.
Josh is it Smith?
I think it is that was justannounced as the deputy director
of the federal Bureau ofprisons.
He did time and came out.
(47:39):
Apparently, from everythingI've read, has done an amazing
as an entrepreneur and is nowgoing to be part of leading the
Bureau of prisonsisons Isn'tthat remarkable?
Speaker 2 (47:50):
I mean the idea of second chances and people who
deserve second chances, likehumanizing the experience of
incarceration and reentry andthen, you know, allowing people
the opportunity to be impactfulright Like.
Josh's story speaks exactly tothat.
Yeah, so he's a Tennessean andyeah, he's just a wonderful guy.
(48:13):
I saw him a couple months backat a Correctional Leaders
Association conference and he'sdoing wonderful impactful work
impacting the lives of otherindividuals who are just as
impacted or formerlyincarcerated, and so I'm super
excited to see how he changesthat agency and brings the
agency forward, because I thinklived experience gives him a
(48:35):
different perspective.
It's just like I mean, I thinkof it as my way of being a
former practitioner like thatlived experience running
agencies and having that lawenforcement experience allows me
to better inform technology,and I think that you're going to
see that same correlation andthe work that Josh does and the
impact that he has.
So it is a wonderful day andthe fact that he has the
(48:56):
background and he's a reallygreat person is just like I,
just love to see it.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
So, yeah, yeah, I'm excited.
I know that there's a bunch ofcorrectional officers out there
going, wow, we can't do this.
Um, when you take a look at andjust what I've read, uh, he's
been extremely successful.
Um, yes, he's showing himselfto have made a change.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
Yeah, yes, absolutely tangible work like you can't
deny that.
It's almost like, why can't wedo it right?
Like why can't we do so?
I think we have to.
I think corrections, lawenforcement, we have to get out
of the comfort zone and look,that was probably the hardest
thing to break earlier in mycareer and my ideation about,
like how to impact justicesystems is this is the
(49:40):
regimented way, the paramilitarystyle that was like ingrained
in me from day one and you know,over time I understood that
we're dealing with complexpeople are complex and but for
the grace of God, there go, Ioftentimes we'll say, in the
South, right, so you never knowwhat situations or happenstance
(50:03):
leads individuals to theircriminal offense.
But I think that we should openthe door and invite them for a
possibility of change.
And who better?
Or a possibility to change?
But who better than a personwho has proven themselves
post-release in ways that we cango back and see their impact?
(50:23):
But who better to step in andkind of shake it up a little bit
, like let's challenge thestatus quo and hopefully we will
be better because of it?
You know, five years from now,we look back and we're like man,
that was a, it was a great calland it takes nothing away from
those people who, like you and I, who are traditional.
You know, you came up throughthe ranks and and kind of um.
(50:44):
You know, like, I think I callit the gritty climb, like I've
had the gritty climb, um,there's.
It takes nothing away, I think.
Um, the collective brain trustin order for us to advance, um,
the the area of correction isneeded.
Why not now, like now's thetime?
Speaker 1 (51:01):
Absolutely.
What a great, what a greatconversation.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
If people want, to get ahold of your uh, and I'll
put it down here in the shownotes, of course, with links and
stuff.
But tell people how to getahold of you and your agent or
your company.
My fault.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
Yeah, so I'm all over LinkedIn.
Um, certainly, please, please,uh, reach out to me on LinkedIn.
I'm happy to to talk to peopleand connect with people.
Um, secure us and inventive?
Um, I certainly we will.
We will certainly add those inthe in the show notes.
But if you Google Securus orAventa, if you Google my name
with the Securus or Aventa, likeit will pop up.
(51:35):
So we're, we're everywhere,probably in a neighborhood near
most of you, and, yeah, I'm opento further dialogue and coming
out and talking to anybody aboutour impactful technology.
Speaker 1 (51:48):
Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come
talk to us and I learned a lotabout probation and parole and
and tablets and your company andI appreciate that.
I think a lot of people will beglad to hear it.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
Absolutely have a great day.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Thank you, hey before we go, I'd like to take a
minute to thank one of oursponsors.
Omnini Real-Time LocatingSystem is a company I've been
working closely with for years.
I'm proud to be a part of thisinnovative team that's developed
the best real-time locatingsystem on the market today for
your jail or prison.
Omni's PREA-compliant real-timemonitoring technology is the
(52:24):
very best way to track andrecord your inmate's locations,
their movements, theirinteractions, throughout every
square inch of your correctionalfacility.
Imagine getting an alarm thesecond an escape happens, or an
alert that lets you know when aninmate's heart rate drops below
a set level.
To learn more about Omni, go towwwomnirtlscom.
(52:48):
That's omnirtlscom.
That's omnirtlscom.
Or you can click on today'sshow notes to get in the
information guide.
Omni Real-Time Locating Systemis a powerful tool specifically
designed for the moderncorrectional professional.
If you haven't done so, pleasetake a moment to like my podcast
or, better yet, hit thesubscribe button so that you'll
(53:08):
be notified when the nextepisode comes out.
Thanks for listening and let'sbe safe out there.
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