October 13, 2025 • 49 mins
I saw a man once walk out of the Missouri State Penitentiary after three decades with a few dollars and no plan. I remember that moment—and this is why I am glad Missouri has set out to build something better. Come behind the scenes with us at the MCA/MPPOA fall conference for a candid tour of what’s actually working: “soft handoffs” between institutions and field teams, mental health continuity that doesn’t collapse on day one, and an immersive training academy built inside a retrofitted prison that turns rookies into capable, confident officers.
We sit down with probation and parole pros and they show how ORAS‑driven case plans tackle real barriers—transportation, IDs, phones, and family support—before release. Their ICTS success stories are honest and hard‑earned: late‑night ER advocacy, field pickups when groups are missed, and quiet graduations that mean someone’s eight months sober and off supervision for good.
Then we head to Cameron, where the Academy for Excellence in Corrections blends daily defensive tactics, cohort rotations, and hands‑on modules in a dedicated training unit filled with authentic property and safe contraband. It’s a modern cadence that builds muscle memory, policy fluency, and the kind of calm that keeps staff safer—and staying longer.
We also open the notebook on today’s threat landscape. A gang SME explains why hybrid gangs and flexible alliances now drive Missouri’s dynamics, why word choice can keep a conversation alive, and how intel shared through the Midwest Gang Investigators Association makes patrol, probation, and custody safer. From motorcycle club rivalries to cross‑agency networking, the theme is collaboration—because corrections holds long‑term insights that street partners need, and training only sticks when it’s tethered to the worksite.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Hey guys, welcome back to the Prison Officer
Podcast.
This is Mike Cantrell, and asalways, I want to stop for a
minute and I want to thankPepperball.
You know, if it wasn't for them,this podcast wouldn't be
possible.
This podcast has been listenedto in over 141 countries.
I've had over 200,000 downloads.
There's I think 113 episodes upright now.
So, you know, all thatinformation, all the people we
(00:22):
got to talk to, the greatleaders, the great trainers, uh,
you know, the people who've madetheir mark in corrections, that
wouldn't be possible withoutPepperball.
So if you get the chance, go towww.pepperball.com and just tell
them hi, tell them thank you,you know, that you appreciate
the fact that they sponsor theprison officer podcast.
(00:42):
Now, here's what I want to talkto you about this week.
If you didn't get the chance togo to the Missouri Correctional
Association slash MissouriProbation Parole Officers
Association fall conference, uh,we had it down at Chateau in the
Lake, uh Chateau at the Lake.
It's not Chateau in the Lake,it's Chateau at the Lake in
Branson, Missouri.
And uh it was a great venue, hada great time down there.
(01:04):
I got to teach a couple ofclasses and so really enjoyed
that.
But the other thing I got to dowhile I was there was sit down
and talk to some amazing people.
And so I've got these videosloaded up.
They're gonna come along here.
We're gonna talk about gangs,we're gonna talk about training
new staff, we're gonna talkabout probation and parole and
and how that works with uhkeeping our inmates and
(01:26):
offenders out of our prisons andout of our jails.
So stand by.
Hope you enjoy.
Hello, everybody, and welcomeback to the Prison Officer
Podcast.
This is Mike Cantrell.
I'm coming to you from theMissouri Correctional
Association, where I'm uhMissouri Correctional
Association and the MPPOA.
They've come together, which isthe Missouri Probation and
Parole Officers Association.
(01:47):
They come together and have afall conference uh together each
year.
And uh so I wanted to make surethat we got some probation and
parole officers in here.
So we're gonna talk to them now.
Uh Tiffany Deal.
Yes, correct.
And Christy Lockwood.
Christy Lockwood.
I don't know why I was gettingready to say Sandra, but Christy
Lockwood.
Uh Christy's retired, andTiffany still works actively.
(02:11):
Yes, I work actively at District27 at Jefferson City as a unit
supervisor.
So let me start with you.
How did you get into correctionsor probation of parole?
Did you go straight into PP?
SPEAKER_07 (02:22):
No, actually, I changed my career for 17 years
on an ambulance and decided togo to college and change my
career.
And my instructor took me toDistrict 26, Fulton, right, and
uh introduced me to Dave Meenan,who was a unit supervisor and a
trainer.
And I did an internship for sixmonths there, and here I am
(02:43):
today.
SPEAKER_01 (02:44):
Wow.
Helping people, helping people,is that the draw?
SPEAKER_07 (02:48):
That is the draw for me.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (02:50):
Yeah, you got to uh uh an ambulance uh you know
that's such important work,also.
But uh so what did you thinkwhen you first came into this?
I mean, that's they're this alittle bit the same, but they're
totally apart.
SPEAKER_07 (03:02):
Well, instead of it being like an emergency, like
you go in and you help whenyou're on an ambulance, right?
Right, it's somebody'semergency.
That's what you're doing.
SPEAKER_05 (03:10):
Okay.
SPEAKER_07 (03:11):
Instead of it being an emergency and never seeing
the follow-through or the endresult, um, I'm going in where
they're either coming out ofprison or they're coming on to
supervision.
So it's kind of their emergency,right?
Because it's changing and it'sit's made an impact on their
life.
And so we get to impact andhopefully see that huge change
(03:35):
through the time that they'rewith us to be successful
community.
SPEAKER_01 (03:39):
Yeah, I remember one thing that stuck with me.
I started at Missouri State Bendin 1992, and I don't know, six
months, a year in, I helped thesergeant escort a guy who was
getting out.
And we walked into the frontdoor and we handed him three
three dollars and fifty-fourcents, something like that.
And the guy had been down forlike 30 plus years and handed
(04:00):
him that and said, See youlater, out the front door of
Missouri State Man.
And my brain was just like, Whatwhat do you expect out of this?
You know, and I never could wrapmy head around that.
But we do that much better now,huh?
SPEAKER_07 (04:14):
We do that much better now, yes.
They come in and we help themwork with uh what we call the
Oraz and the case plans.
So we're working with thingsthat they're um barriers they're
having in life after beinglocked up for 30 years, you
know.
Now we need to help re-acclimatethem.
And some people have never had acell phone, right?
(04:35):
They've maybe dealt with an iPadin prison, but it's a little bit
different because it the cellphone has opened huge doors for
them, and they're like, Well,what do I do?
And my some of my family's gone,and where do I have you know
support?
So that's that's a main draw forus.
SPEAKER_01 (04:52):
Yeah, even 10 years with technology right now is
huge.
SPEAKER_07 (04:55):
It is huge.
SPEAKER_01 (04:57):
Christy Lockwood, yes, uh retired probation and
parole.
Tell me about how you came intothat uh position, that career.
Was it a career for you?
SPEAKER_02 (05:07):
It was a career.
I did 20 almost 27 years.
SPEAKER_01 (05:09):
Oh wow.
SPEAKER_02 (05:10):
Um I went to college uh to be a teacher and decided I
didn't like the teaching aspectof the education part of it.
So um went into criminal justiceand then did an internship with
the juvenile office and didn'twant to be that person that took
kids away from their parents.
(05:30):
Yeah, even though it may havebeen warranted, I didn't want to
get shot at.
SPEAKER_01 (05:34):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (05:35):
Or, you know, I would not be happy if someone
tried to take my kids.
SPEAKER_01 (05:37):
No, they'd get shot at, wouldn't they?
SPEAKER_02 (05:39):
Yeah.
I mean, yeah.
So I thought, okay, adultprobation.
So that's I didn't do any kindof internships or I had no idea
what I was doing when I firststarted.
I had I didn't even know reallywhat it was.
Right.
Things were just different.
SPEAKER_01 (05:59):
I didn't even I could tell you throughout my
career.
It wasn't until later in mycareer that I even understood
much about probation and parole.
Right.
You know, corrections and PP areso intertwined and so connected,
but I don't feel like we connectthe way we should.
I like seeing this in Missouri.
You don't see this everywhere.
Yeah.
Where you have corrections andprobation and parole at a
(06:19):
conference together, learningthe same things, networking.
So yeah, I think this is great.
Did you guys have anunderstanding of what went on on
the other side in corrections?
Because I didn't from my side.
SPEAKER_02 (06:33):
I didn't.
When I first started, I had noidea.
All I knew was I did not want tobe an institutional officer.
I wanted to be in the community.
SPEAKER_05 (06:40):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (06:41):
Um, but no, I didn't have any idea.
I think they've done a betterjob over the years in teaching
and educating like field staff.
SPEAKER_01 (06:50):
Is institutional officer a new thing?
SPEAKER_02 (06:52):
An IPO.
IPO, institutional paroleofficer?
No, they've been around.
SPEAKER_01 (06:55):
I don't think we had those back then.
Really?
SPEAKER_02 (06:58):
Uh-huh.
Yeah, they've been around mywhole career.
They were around.
Um institutional paroleofficers.
Um is there?
They do, I mean, they just havea different function.
SPEAKER_01 (07:10):
They're getting them ready.
SPEAKER_02 (07:11):
Getting them ready, writing reports for the board,
doing I think it's more reportwriting and we're doing ORASs
now.
SPEAKER_07 (07:19):
And so yeah, the prison assessments or forum.
SPEAKER_01 (07:22):
So are you an IPO?
SPEAKER_07 (07:24):
No, but I have been um we have JCCC and Algoa in my
district.
Right.
So luckily I've had anopportunity in the last four
months to go over to JCCC andAlgoa and kind of do some
assessments for them and helpthem start the case plan um and
get get rolling on how to tellus what you identified while
(07:48):
they were there, things thatthey were working on.
We've also started communicatinga little bit.
We're calling it like a handoff,a soft handoff.
So they're trying to call usbefore they come to us and let
us know, hey, we've recognizedthere's no transportation
because there's no driver'slicense.
We've recognized there's eventhough they're coming there,
they need to change theirperson, places, and things.
(08:08):
So there's no real familysupport.
You know, these are someidentified options that are
coming out.
SPEAKER_01 (08:14):
One of the things I saw in the feds a lot, because I
worked at Federal Medical Centerat Springfield a lot of mental
health, was there was guys whowere going to the street, but if
they had mental health problems,that's a special challenge for
you guys, isn't it?
SPEAKER_07 (08:27):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (08:28):
Trying to find a place to put them to find
someplace that wants them.
SPEAKER_07 (08:31):
But if they're coming out and they're on
medications, like that's thatsoft handoff.
SPEAKER_01 (08:34):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_07 (08:35):
And we know they're telling us um they're they're
enrolled in mat services.
Um, can we get them hooked upwith another, you know, partner
who has mat services?
So we're kind of getting thatgoing, that ball right before
they ever come out, which isnice because again, it's a hand
up for us and a hand up forthem.
SPEAKER_02 (08:54):
And that's such a change.
That's such a change from when Ifirst started.
There was no communicationbetween the field and the
institution.
So that's a positive thingthat's happened over the last
25, 20 years, probably.
More so even in the last 10years, really.
It's that's been a huge, hugechange.
Mr.
SPEAKER_07 (09:12):
Mosley's really pushing that lately for us to
make sure that you're doingokay, soft handoffs that you're
having that communicationbecause it it's the success of
our clients.
SPEAKER_01 (09:22):
Most mental health, and I dealt with a lot of you
know, people with severe mentalhealth problems, but the minute
they got out of prison, well,I've been telling them for years
I'm fine, I don't need this.
So if you don't have somebodywatching them, you know, I I was
sitting one night and uhLieutenant and I were working,
we got a call from order.
It was like, uh, best we couldtell this guy was last with you,
(09:45):
and you can hear him in thebackground.
I can hear the if eight in thebackground, who's been released
like six months ago, and he'sjust losing it.
They're like, what did you givehim when he was in?
You know, they were just attheir wit's end.
So you see uh the way we dropthe ball on that sometimes.
So that's good to hear.
That's good to hear we're doinga better job.
What's one of your biggestsuccesses?
(10:06):
What do you remember?
SPEAKER_07 (10:07):
Um of my biggest successes was about April this
year.
Uh prior to being the USsupervisor, I was an officer in
District 6.
Christy was my supervisor.
Um, and I had a client in theImproving Community Treatment
Success Program, which is theICTS.
And I was at Golden Corral, andthere was about four of my
(10:29):
previous clients there.
And my husband and I wereeating, and so one is like, and
I'm like, because I don't I trynot to I let them lead that,
right?
And so here she comes and she'stalking to me and stuff, and
then um the others come by, andthen the male client, um, we
(10:49):
worked so hard.
My partner and I, we would leaveand we they'd say, Hey, we can't
find you, he's not in groups,whatever, and we would go and we
would find him, and we're like,come on, you know, and um he
said, I just want you to I'vebeen eight months clean, I
graduated out of supervision inJanuary, and I owe everything to
you and Becky, and I just somuch appreciate it.
(11:13):
And he gave me a big old hug,and that I carry that with me
because that is one successstory that you don't always
have.
Absolutely, so yeah, he wasawesome.
SPEAKER_01 (11:25):
How about you?
Long career, you surely have asuccess story to do that.
SPEAKER_02 (11:29):
It's the same program.
SPEAKER_01 (11:30):
Oh, is this the same thing?
SPEAKER_02 (11:31):
And it's not really a specific person.
SPEAKER_01 (11:34):
Hey guys, we're recording here, I'll cut that
part out.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (11:39):
Um, it's the same program, it's the same program,
ICTS.
I was a supervisor over thatprogram, and it wasn't so much a
specific incident, but it wasjust generalized seeing people
successful.
Yeah, because you don't alwaysget that thanks or that we had
like a graduation or a ceremonywhen people would, you know,
complete their programming.
(12:01):
And they weren't secured or theyweren't successful, you know,
graduated per se, but theycompleted a program and they
were very proud of it.
And those were some of my bestmoments were just watching, and
I I didn't talk a lot at them orreally do as much as Tiffany and
Becky did as officers, but justwatching their interactions with
them, I knew they had worked sohard to get them to that point.
(12:24):
And and the client worked reallyhard to get to that point.
So they they we had mentalhealth, yeah.
SPEAKER_07 (12:28):
Oh and we Becky and I, we one time sat in a hospital
until 9 30 in the evening andemergent waiting with the client
until the staff decided thatyes, she needed a a further
evaluation.
We were her advocate, yeah, andwe were her successful need for
that advocation.
SPEAKER_01 (12:46):
That's interesting.
Uh uh, you know, in corrections,you don't often get any of that.
You don't get to see the endresult.
You know, my end result is whenI drive out of the institution
and I look around and there'snot crime being committed in the
street.
SPEAKER_03 (13:00):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (13:00):
You know, that that's what we get.
So it's it it must be uh uh itmust feel good.
unknown (13:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:06):
So let's see some of those end results and stuff.
SPEAKER_07 (13:08):
This program um definitely changed my life.
I came into P in 2020, right atlike the COVID area.
SPEAKER_05 (13:17):
Right.
SPEAKER_07 (13:17):
And Christy approached me and she's like,
Hey, we heard you would bereally good for this.
And um would you and I was like,I have a social work degree,
sure, why not?
Um and now I'm a unit supervisorthat takes care of the one in
Cole County.
Yeah, um, so I definitelybelieve in that program.
SPEAKER_01 (13:35):
So what have you seen here at the MCI and PPOA
conference?
SPEAKER_07 (13:39):
Um, I'm gonna be honest, I'm on the board of
MPPOA, so I have been reallybusy with that kind of stuff.
Put on the conference, put on aconference, yeah.
Yeah, and answering my because II am kind of in my office full
many things for some of mystaff, so I've had to answer for
you.
SPEAKER_01 (13:57):
All right, I'll be back.
Well, thank you so much forstopping by and talking to us.
Absolutely fascinating stories.
unknown (14:02):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (14:03):
Great meeting you guys.
SPEAKER_07 (14:04):
Good to meet you.
SPEAKER_01 (14:05):
Thanks, everybody.
Oh, nice meeting you.
SPEAKER_07 (14:07):
Nice to meet you.
SPEAKER_01 (14:08):
Excellent.
Well, welcome back to the PrisonOfficer Podcast.
This is Mike Cantrell again.
I'm sitting here with uh ChelseaSpackler.
Is that correct?
SPEAKER_05 (14:17):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (14:18):
Uh from the Missouri Department of Corrections.
I want to talk to her becausethey're doing some really
interesting stuff with trainingand the way they're training the
new recruits.
And uh so welcome to the PrisonOfficer Podcast, Chelsea.
SPEAKER_06 (14:30):
Thank you.
I'm happy to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (14:31):
When when did you get into corrections?
Tell me about that.
SPEAKER_06 (14:34):
Well, um, 1997, I started out at the Farmington
Correctional Center.
Um, not in a traditional role asan officer.
I started as a substance abusecounselor.
Okay.
Um, and I worked out there for acouple of years, and then
Northeast Correctional Centeropened up and I went out there
and and I became what old headswould know is classified with
the Missouri correction system.
(14:55):
Um and I just kind of workedwherever they'd give me more
money at that point.
SPEAKER_01 (14:59):
Yeah.
Farmington was a fun place tostart at 97.
They were they still doing allthe uh shock stuff down there?
SPEAKER_06 (15:06):
Yes, they yeah, they had shock treatment.
They also had the regimenteddiscipline program.
Right.
And we had saturation housingfrom all of the offenders that
had been returned from Texasfrom our cell lease program
because we didn't have enoughprison beds to house all of the
offenders that we um hadsentenced for a period of
incarceration.
SPEAKER_01 (15:25):
I was on that initial trip when I was on Sea
Stark.
Yeah, we went to Crystal City,Texas, and 24 hours straight
back, and yeah, that was a wholemess back then.
SPEAKER_06 (15:34):
Yeah, I think their first stop might have been
Farmington Correctional Center.
I know that we had severalhundred of them there.
Wow, you know, they came backnot so happy.
So yeah, my first year and ahalf was not really, I guess, in
a self-sillance abuse counselorrole because I I counted, I
inspected, I escorted, I, youknow, did all those things just
(15:54):
without the uniform.
Sure, sure.
Yeah, it was nuts.
SPEAKER_01 (15:58):
So you did that, uh, and then how did you get into
training?
SPEAKER_06 (16:03):
Oh gosh, let's see.
Um 2007.
So we're talking 10 years later,I just decided I had a bigger
impact.
I could reach more people uhthrough the training department.
Um you know, I worked my way upto functional unit manager and I
felt like I was making adifference in the housing unit
(16:25):
with the people in the housingunit and the staff in the
housing unit, but I found mytrue calling when I was being an
adjunct trainer from MissouriDepartment of Corrections, and I
just got a lot of reward fromfeeling like I was making a
difference with more people.
SPEAKER_01 (16:39):
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah, and that's uh youknow, I teach uh new staff, and
one of the things I taught tothem about whatever it is,
you've got to find your passion.
Yes, you can't do this jobforever without a passion.
Yeah.
And training was what became mypassion.
Yeah.
I didn't like my first few yearsas a correctional officer.
Oh, yeah.
I didn't.
I didn't feel like I wasaccomplishing anything, you
(17:00):
know.
And uh then when I got into uhstaff training and seeing the
results of how I could impactpeople.
SPEAKER_06 (17:06):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (17:07):
So that's kind of the same thing.
Yes, yes, definitely.
SPEAKER_06 (17:10):
Yeah, you just get more reward for your effort, I
think, when you when you seepeople succeed or you see people
promote, or you have someonejust randomly come up to you one
day and say, Hey, you know, Iknow I gave you a hard time in
class that day because I hatebeing in class, but let me tell
you what happened and how thatclass saved me or how that class
helped me.
Funny story.
(17:31):
Sure.
So I go to church in aneighborhood that's kind of
rough in in St.
Joseph, Missouri, and I waswalking to my car through this
neighborhood after service, andI see a taxi whiz by me, stop,
hit reverse, and I'm like, uhoh, what's coming?
And this lady in the backseatrolls down her window and she
starts screaming.
(17:51):
She's like, Hey, hey you! AndI'm like getting nervous.
I'm like, oh no.
And she says, You spoke at mygraduation.
I remember you, I loved yourspeech, it made a difference.
So she was a new hire that justsaw me walking down the street
and had to let me know I made adifference for her.
SPEAKER_01 (18:10):
You're you're getting ready to retire.
And you mentioned that uh one ofthe things that surprised me in
retirement is how many phonecalls I've gotten after
retirement when people justwon't go, hey, I got this
promotion, hey, I appreciateyour investing in me and that
type of stuff.
So I hope that happens for youtoo.
SPEAKER_06 (18:28):
Oh, I hope so too.
Yeah.
You know, deciding to retire isprobably the hardest decision to
make.
I know everyone works for itgoing the day I'm eligible, I'm
out, but the day that comes,you're going, yeah, I'm
eligible, but what's next?
You know, so yeah, it was areally hard decision because I
love what I do and I love thepeople that I work with.
(18:48):
Um but I've checked off all thecheck marks on my list.
And so, you know, it's time tolet someone else take the hell
in and see what they can do withit.
SPEAKER_01 (18:57):
Yeah.
Who knows?
I tell people I failedretirement.
I'm still, I mean, I go out allthe time and I'm teaching
correctional law through lawenforcement, and I'm working as
hard now, probably, as I wasthen.
Yeah.
Podcast.
I love it.
I love it.
Yeah.
So tell me about uh where areyou at now?
SPEAKER_06 (19:14):
I'm at the Academy for Excellence in Corrections
located in Cameron, Missouri.
SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
Okay.
And I'm that used to beCrossroads.
SPEAKER_06 (19:21):
It used to be Western Missouri Corrector.
SPEAKER_01 (19:22):
Western Missouri Correctional Center.
Okay.
SPEAKER_06 (19:24):
Crossroads is still there.
We share perimeter road.
SPEAKER_01 (19:26):
Okay.
SPEAKER_06 (19:27):
Um, yeah, and so we've retrofitted a prison into
a training academy.
SPEAKER_03 (19:35):
Sorry.
SPEAKER_06 (19:35):
That is uh let me tell you what, it I've never
seen anything like it.
I've never heard of anythinglike it.
Our leadership here with theMissouri Department of
Corrections is just soinnovative in their approach on
how to help staff be the bestthey can.
And you know, our mission andvision statement, the the vision
part of that statement isproviding excellence in
(19:57):
corrections for a saferMissouri.
And so this Academy forExcellence and Corrections helps
everyone in the state that hiresin in a custody role learn our
standard of what we expectexcellence to be.
Right.
And so we're truly investing inthe future of the Missouri
Department of Corrections byhaving this opportunity.
(20:17):
I mean, how many places get anopportunity to close a prison?
It's still viable enough to turninto a training center and then
retrofit it with all of thismodern equipment.
Um, and I know people are like,Oh, I'm gonna have to live in a
cell, but let me tell you what,they're unrecognizable.
SPEAKER_05 (20:34):
Right.
SPEAKER_06 (20:35):
They are uh nicer than hotel rooms, I would say.
And the people that stay thereare like, yeah, this is really
nice.
And they're almost equivalent tolike a college-style dorm room
now.
SPEAKER_01 (20:45):
Yeah.
Well, you called it immersivetraining.
SPEAKER_06 (20:47):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (20:48):
So tell me what you're you're you've hired on of
the Missouri Department ofCorrections.
Tell me what's gonna happen.
SPEAKER_06 (20:53):
Well, a whole lot's gonna happen.
That's true.
Uh we have it's a seven-weekprocess from start to finish.
So it's not really differentthan what it was before.
It's just now instead of doing achunk of it here and then doing
the other chunk here, it's everyother week they're doing
something.
So they'll do a week at theirwork site of orientation,
(21:15):
important paperwork, um, somee-learning modules online to
prepare them for when they cometo academy.
And then every new hire,regardless of job titles, is
gonna do a region week oftraining.
And so each of the threeregional training centers in the
state give every single newemployee the same program
regardless of where they'regonna go work.
SPEAKER_05 (21:34):
Okay.
SPEAKER_06 (21:34):
Then they do a work site week again, regardless of
where they're gonna go work, andthen our corrections, our
custody officers, they all cometo the officer academy at the
Academy for Excellence andCorrections.
And when they get there, thefirst thing they get is the best
part of training, the mostentertaining, funnest part of it
all.
They get all the rules.
(21:55):
Yeah, and then they get a tourof the facility because you know
that the facility, we're notusing the entirety of it for the
academy.
It's a huge facility.
And so we've marked off aquarter of it, a quadrant of the
facility is what we use for theacademy.
The administration building,full use, everything training
related.
(22:16):
And then most of our centralservices, down to like the
warehouse, is all trainingrelated.
Um, so they get to see thetraining unit, which is the old
administrative segregation unitthat has been cleaned out,
gutted, but then all offenderbunks put back in.
Every single DAI facility in thestate has donated uh offender
(22:36):
property, contraband, somedangerous contraband, which we
trap very closely.
Um, but we'll set it out.
We've made it safe.
So if there's like a knife,we've dolled the edges or taped
it over with real thick tape.
So as an officer's learningsearch, they don't actually cut
themselves with real dangerouscontraband, you know.
But yeah, everything in thetraining unit is authentic
(22:58):
offender property.
And so they learn to count inthere, they learn to search in
there, they learn to packoffender property in there, they
learn um all the basic, reallyimportant skills of a
corrections officer.
And it's right next door towhere they get to stay, too.
SPEAKER_01 (23:13):
That is a far cry from 1992.
SPEAKER_03 (23:16):
Yeah, it sure is.
SPEAKER_01 (23:17):
We were I went to work at Jefferson City and there
was a hotel up there.
Don't remember the name of it,but we were in the basement of
that hotel.
Uh-huh.
Uh they came in, gave us a a redfolder, this pair of uh binder.
Uh-huh.
And other than defensivetactics, we didn't leave for I
mean, that's what we talkedabout for two weeks.
SPEAKER_04 (23:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:37):
And then that was it.
SPEAKER_06 (23:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:38):
And then you just got and we got thrown in.
SPEAKER_06 (23:41):
You just get sent to go, okay, that's where you're
gonna be today.
SPEAKER_01 (23:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (23:44):
Yeah.
And you know, I think thedepartment learned that the more
we invest in someone at the verystart, the more likely they are
to return that investment.
And you know, in the world ofbusiness, ROI is like that's
everything, the return oninvestment.
And so our hope is that we get areturn on our investment by
having a well-trained quadraticstaff that are interested in
(24:08):
staying and helping get theMissouri Department of
Corrections to be the forefrontof corrections.
SPEAKER_01 (24:15):
One thing I've learned since retiring and going
out and training and and talkingto sheriffs and wardens across
the nation, um we we talk abouthaving this problem with
retention, but it's not theretention.
Everybody keeps throwing moneyat it, and everybody keeps
throwing this type of stuff atit.
The thing I see the most iswhether or not the staff feel
(24:36):
safe when they walk in.
If they walk in and they feellike they've got the skills to
deal with whatever comes atthem, and I remember that.
I mean, I didn't we just gotthrown in.
We didn't have skills to thestreet.
SPEAKER_06 (24:49):
I was mortified the first time I did a pet search
because I had I was in a diningroom, you know, and I had a
hundred offenders watching me doit completely wrong on another
offender.
SPEAKER_03 (24:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (25:00):
You know, and so that's embarrassing.
SPEAKER_03 (25:02):
Sure.
SPEAKER_06 (25:02):
You know, and that doesn't happen.
It should not be happening nowif the program is being
followed.
Yeah.
Because after the first weekwith us, then they go to their
work site and the um on the jobcomponent it follows.
So they have an they have an OJTchecklist, is what we call it.
SPEAKER_03 (25:17):
Right.
SPEAKER_06 (25:17):
And we go over all these critical skills in the
three and a half days of a weekthat they're with us, and then
they go to their work site, andnow they do that checklist with
the skills that we have giventhem time to practice without
the audience.
Oh, yeah.
You know, practice to gethands-on, and then they get to
perform those with their fieldtraining officers at their work
site.
And so it's like in the world ofeducation, we're scaffolding
(25:40):
this knowledge now to build itone plank against another plank
or another plank.
And it just, I mean, I know it'sa catchphrase that we started
several years ago, but justseeing the confidence for the
right reasons in these newofficers is confidence and
skill, knowledge of policy.
SPEAKER_01 (25:58):
Those are people that they're gonna stick around.
SPEAKER_06 (26:02):
Yeah, that's the hope.
SPEAKER_01 (26:03):
Well, I mean so much is scary about prison when you
first walk in.
SPEAKER_06 (26:08):
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (26:09):
You know, and I've seen so many people over the
years.
I've seen I've seen staff withthe first day of training when
we show a couple of films,they're gonna go.
They just walk out, yeah.
Yeah, I wasn't ready for this.
SPEAKER_06 (26:19):
Yeah, that's not what I thought it was.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:23):
So they come in, they live there for the week.
SPEAKER_06 (26:26):
Uh huh.
SPEAKER_01 (26:27):
Uh I mean they've got mattresses and stuff.
Oh, real beds.
It's good to go.
So, what's a day look like?
SPEAKER_06 (26:34):
Oh, typical day at the academy.
Um, we open up the dining roomaround 6 30.
We got free coffee in there.
And we don't have hot meals forbreakfast, but we provide
oatmeal packets, cereal packets,fresh fruit, stuff like that.
And then they report to theirfirst class at 8 a.m.
And every morning in OfficerAcademy is a two-hour block of
(26:54):
classroom in the cell house.
Not all of them.
SPEAKER_01 (26:57):
Okay.
SPEAKER_06 (26:57):
So the first two hours of every day is doing
defensive tactics.
And we used to do all of it allat once.
So it was a full day, full day,full day of nothing but you
know, learning how to take downand control if necessary.
You know.
Um, but now it's two hours at atime.
SPEAKER_05 (27:13):
Okay.
SPEAKER_06 (27:14):
And that gives them an opportunity to build upon it
every day, and and they'reactually doing really well
retaining it through the full uhthree-week portion of the
officer training academy withthe work site weeks in between.
And and they're doing reallywell with the testing process
and the but so every morningthey start with footwork and
then a different skill, and andthen they get a little bit of a
(27:36):
longer break after that firsttwo-hour block of instruction,
and then they go to their nextblock of instruction.
Now, our classes, since we'retraining statewide, they've
gotten really big.
And so the training team has hadto really evaluate how do we do
this effectively for everybodyto be able to learn.
And so it's kind of a messyprocess for someone that doesn't
(27:58):
understand the cycle.
Um, but we break the groups intocohorts and we usually assign it
by color.
So we may have an orange cohort,a yellow cohort, and a green
cohort.
And it's about 50 cadets pertrainer.
SPEAKER_03 (28:12):
Okay.
SPEAKER_06 (28:12):
And then so though they will rotate through those
modules of instructionthroughout the day so that we
don't have all 200 cadets in onespot at the same time.
So, like we could have from 10to noon, we could have 50 cadets
out in the parking lot learninghow to do uh perimeter checks,
fence checks, all of that stuff,while another 50 are in the
(28:33):
training unit learning how tocount, while another 50 are in
food service learning how tosearch and and just monitor uh
an eating a dining room, or sureuh or maybe they're in a
visiting area learning how tohandle the different things that
can happen in a visiting room.
So they and they rotate throughthat, but they all get the same
modules within the same day.
(28:53):
They just rotate every two hoursfrom one section to another, to
another.
SPEAKER_01 (28:57):
Yeah, yeah, makes sense.
Yeah.
So my first interview, and I'vetalked about this in my book.
Uh my first interview, HR askedme, you know, have you ever had
a felony?
Do you do drugs?
And there was this old crustycaptain sitting over there.
And she said, Do you haveanything for him?
And he goes, You ever been in afight?
And I didn't know how to answerit.
(29:17):
You know, I was like, uh baby.
He's like, You ever win any?
A couple.
That was it.
That was the only question thecustody asked me.
And I was hired.
SPEAKER_06 (29:28):
They put you on the front man of a five-man team.
They did immediately.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:32):
So yeah, the world's changed.
I'm glad to see that.
That uh uh, you know, I can'tsay enough about making our
staff feel safe inside.
That's such a huge thing.
And that sounds like what youguys are uh aiming towards and
giving them the knowledge andthe abilities.
SPEAKER_04 (29:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:51):
Uh I will tell you that the Missouri Department of
Corrections gave me betterdefensive tactics than I had at
any other place back then.
SPEAKER_06 (29:59):
Really that I carry.
SPEAKER_01 (30:00):
through my entire career.
SPEAKER_06 (30:01):
Yeah.
We hear that from a lot ofindividuals who've come to us
from military or othercorrections departments in other
states.
SPEAKER_01 (30:08):
So they're very grateful for the training that
we're stopping by and talking tome.
SPEAKER_06 (30:16):
And I really think we're doing big stuff.
You know, and it's it it was ahard decision to walk away from
it.
But you know it's um gosh, ittook so long to get there.
And I I had a vision of what itneeded to be to get there and
and we got there.
And so now it's someone else'sturn to kind of you know tweak
it and get it to where it'ssustainable for a long time.
(30:39):
And I really think it is.
And it's amazing what I mean theprogram how it how it all came
together is just absolutelyamazing.
SPEAKER_01 (30:48):
Credit to the vision visionary who thought of this
it's just but you're you'regonna see the results of that
work for forever.
SPEAKER_06 (30:56):
Hopefully yeah I'm just grateful to have been a
part of it.
SPEAKER_01 (30:58):
I'd like to go see it sometime.
SPEAKER_06 (31:00):
Yeah we'll ask we'll I'm sure we could get you in
there.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:05):
Well I hope you have a great day.
Thank you you too thank youwe'll see you soon hello
everybody and welcome back tothe prison officer podcast.
My name's Mike Cantrell and I'mhere at the uh Missouri
Correctional Association FallConference in Branson, Missouri
at the beautiful Chateau on thelake.
Um this is a new venue and uhit's uh it's a really nice
(31:28):
place.
We're having a lot of fun a lotof classes going on and I'm
grabbing some of these uh peopleand um talking to them finding
out what's going on with theMissouri Correctional
Association.
So I've got with me today Mr.
Farrell Rooks and he is asubject matter expert on games
uh for the training academy soum welcome to the prison officer
(31:48):
podcast thank you I appreciateit yeah so how did you get into
corrections?
I always like to start therebecause everybody found a
different path coming to work atcorrections.
How did it work for you?
SPEAKER_00 (31:58):
Yeah mine was a little bit different.
So uh I'm originally from thesouth side of St.
Louis okay uh uh went to collegedidn't finish it uh I got into
uh retail work in the day andthen I was got in security so I
was a bouncer uh some clubs andsmaller bars things like that I
(32:19):
had a little bit of backgroundin boxing and wrestling and
things like that so that waskind of my niche and then I had
a uh basically a sit-down withmy older sisters I got two older
sisters were 16 to 17 yearsapart and that was just kind of
not saying that the job that Iwas doing was an important job
but they sat me down it was likelittle brother's time to get a
big boy job.
(32:39):
Sure and you probably need tolook at um a state or a federal
job and I thought about policebecoming a police officer uh and
my sister who's she's retiredmilitary she did 20 years in the
Navy uh she said if you want togo into that have you looked at
corrections first that they'llteach you how to talk to
somebody whether than whatyou're doing now is basically
(33:02):
using your hands to make them dowhat you want them to do.
Good analogy yeah uh so uh atthat time I I put my application
in and um I got uh hired on atPacific which is right outside
of St.
Louis um and then I actually hadtoo many family members that
were there as uh offenders.
SPEAKER_01 (33:22):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (33:22):
So I couldn't work there uh and then Boom Vote
Correctional Center called me uha couple of days later and
that's where I started my careerwith the department.
Excellent excellent umcorrectional officer is that how
you came in yeah but I came inas a CL1 um and once I came in I
kind of I really enjoyed justbeing a CL1 I I started uh I
(33:44):
became a member of the Cert teamour correction mercy response
team um and that really drew mein and made me stick around a
lot uh and I actually did notwant to promote I just I wanted
to be a CO1 I was in segregationwhich I liked loved working yeah
um I like dealing with difficultoffenders that's what I like
doing um but then theopportunity came about and the
(34:07):
segregation sergeant positioncame up and it was day shift
with weekends off had never hada weekend day off um so I got
lucky and I interviewed and Igot on my first try uh and I
also got into training which iswhat I'm doing now but I started
off with defensive tactics gotinto firearms PR-24 uh our
(34:30):
movement teams rise disturbancesuh violence is what I like we
call it hard skills right uhthose are the things I like I
didn't know the MissouriDepartment of Correction still
had the PR 24 we do yeah we doit's it's it's so ancient I love
it uh but I love that sidehandle uh it gives us so much
control uh but I'll think I loveI'm actually a senior instructor
(34:53):
through uh Safari Land on thatso I I trained the trainers on
PR 24.
SPEAKER_01 (34:59):
Yeah no I missed mine when I went from the state
of Missouri to the feds uh wedidn't have those and I missed
it because that was somethingyou could it was always there
for you if you were working uhdo you have it at all
institutions or certainpositions now every everybody
that every person that's amember of CERT has to be
certified at a okay cool yeah soyou're a gang specialist yes
(35:21):
how'd you get into that umcoming growing up where I came
up there were gangs everywhereokay uh all through St.
SPEAKER_00 (35:28):
Louis um I have some families I'm part of uh gangs
and I was just kind of uhworking in SEG and my stars at
the time uh Sergeant uh Morriswas the one of the at that time
gang task force officers and Ijust happened to walk back to
he's looking at a picture ofthis guy online he's throwing up
(35:50):
a hand signal I said oh wellhe's a part of this and he like
turned around and said how doyou know that I was like uh I
don't know like I I just do yeahuh and then that's kind of how I
got my foot into the door and uhonce he retired uh we switched
from considering that as a gametask force as a security threat
group right because that's whenwe consider them they're a
(36:10):
threat to our security inside ofour facility and then I became
the security threat groupofficer at Bloomville and then
did that for a year or two andthen I became a co-coordinator
with our investigator.
Yeah and I did that until I camedown to the training center.
SPEAKER_01 (36:26):
So just from my own curiosity you know I I I started
Missouri Stick Penn in 92 andbasically there was the Aryan
Brotherhood and there was theMuslims but they they controlled
every other gang.
But you went to those two peopleum and then when I went feds the
feds were tracking like I don'tknow the feds they're tracking
like 50 gangs when I went to thefederal system so it was a huge
(36:47):
shock for me to have to learnall that so what's going on or
you know you don't have to getreal specific but what gangs are
are current I guess in theMissouri Department of
Corrections?
What are you dealing with themost?
SPEAKER_00 (37:00):
So one of our most uh difficult gangs that we deal
with is a security therapycalled Family Values.
Yeah um it started off as kindof a white separatist group uh
but now they evolve and theykeep on evolving um those are
the ones we probably had themost difficulty with very well
versed in manipulating staffvery good at that we also have a
(37:22):
large population of gangsterdisciples uh inside of Missouri
Part of Corrections Chicagobased mainly Chicago based St.
Hills makes the sense makes thesense they're coming that
direction so we so we have alarge group of that but we're
also dealing with these hybridgangs okay which are a
combination between streak andprison gangs that's really
(37:43):
coming up and I think they'regonna be the next big thing.
It's not like the we was back inthe 60s 70s and 80s were just
floods and cryps and that wasit.
SPEAKER_05 (37:53):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (37:53):
Because a lot of these organizations like the
gang socials the cribs theystarted back in the 60s now the
real gang culture has evolvednow now we're dealing with those
individuals great greatgrandkids and there's so and
there's so many of them that uhthey may be having an issue with
(38:15):
another screen threat group butthen they have a cousin that's a
a a rival of that so are youreally going to kill your blood
family over it no so then theywill they will start up a hybrid
gang for it.
So it's kind of interesting Iactually had a conversation at
the Ms Midwest gang investigateassociation with an officer
(38:36):
where he's it's not unknown insaying let's pull over a vehicle
and you have a trip or blood onthe same vehicle because they're
all related and they're hangingout together and back in because
when I grew up in the 80s andearly 90s that was unheard of
right yeah now I saw gang overmy career that would work
together for money for drugs andfor sex.
SPEAKER_01 (38:59):
They could be polar opposites but if they could help
each other get that then theywould work together.
SPEAKER_00 (39:05):
That's interesting that you've got these they're
working together now becausethey got family members they got
people they know and yeah andthey're all related and and we
still have those groups that ummaybe in the past uh that were
let's say a black supremacist orwhite supremacist group that
really didn't mess with theother race but now if you can
make me some money then we canat least talk.
(39:27):
Yeah right we can at least havea conversation um it's it I I
think Missouri is highlydifferent especially talking
with people from other states inthe sense that we aren't so
segregated as most states.
So you go down to Oklahoma,Texas, those places they
self-segregate themselves.
But in Missouri we're kind ofthe the melting pot so it's not
(39:49):
difficult for out of the norm towalk out of city you'll see
white guys hang out with blackguys black guys hang out with
Hispanic guys.
It's just Missouri's a littlebit different and they their
focus mainly is on money.
SPEAKER_01 (40:01):
Yeah that's interesting I came from a very
small town and and knew nothingabout gangs when I walked into
Missouri State Pen and I mean soyou just get hit in the face
with it.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:13):
Midwest Gang Investigators Association so
you're a part of that yeah so soI've been a member for about
three three four years um andthat's basically everybody in
the Midwest uh and is ininvolved with law enforcement
but we have uh PMP state andfederal PMP you have deputies
high patrol we had a uh BorderPatrol agent just uh this past
(40:37):
couple weeks ago come in andtalk at our conference uh we had
a conservation agent that wasinvolved in the shooting dealing
with sovereign citizens oh wow afew years ago at the conference
also uh and we go to conferenceand it's really about networking
getting to know people spreadinginformation and talking uh
because I think just lawenforcement period gatekeep some
(40:59):
information from each other thebad guys aren't right they're
talking to each other so that'skind of like our our president
uh Cynthia Lowe's uh she pushesthat at our conferences of
making us sit down talk to eachother no nobody's gonna be some
cool guy sitting in the backtrying to be incognito you need
to get up and talk to peoplenetwork so we can somehow uh do
(41:21):
as much as we can to defeat thegang violence that's going on.
SPEAKER_01 (41:24):
Do you think general law enforcement understands how
much Intel travels throughcorrections?
SPEAKER_00 (41:30):
I think they're starting to realize I think
they're starting they'restarting to realize it uh
because the outside lawenforcement our patrol officers
they have a very very dangerousjob um they have a mortality
rate way higher than correctionsuh but they only deal with those
offenders for a short period oftime and then they come to us
and they're with us the majorityof their incarceration um we
(41:54):
know more about them than theirmothers do sometimes way more
way more um I have offendersthat will be stuck in my mind
forever that I could be theycould be walking in front of me
at Walmart I can tell youexactly who they are uh what
their mentality is when they'reupset about something uh when
they're angry about something uhwhen they haven't eaten when
(42:14):
they're on dope when they're offof dope uh and and and I think
that information getting it tooutside of law enforcement is
gonna help them become saferwhen they're dealing with these
guys when they're out on thestreet.
Absolutely uh especially oureven our own PP staff that are
out uh out on the street andwhat they're gonna do when
they're gonna do a home vis andthen walk into their homework
(42:36):
they don't know what's gonnahappen when the door opens up
but if they had some informationprior to them getting there
maybe I need to know how to sitdown and talk with these
individuals uh some of the classthat I taught when they bring up
the most like a gangs byinforming them that if you sit
and you talk to one of thoseguys and you call them a gang
(42:56):
yeah you shut down theconversation they're not a gang
they're a club right in theirworld in their world yeah right
so just knowing little piece ofinformation like that when you
become um involved with thescreen threat groups helps you
be helps you be safe and dealingwith those guys.
Is Missouri still pretty uh um Iknow motorcycle clubs have been
a a problem in Missouri for along time they still are oh
(43:19):
absolutely okay um we had a bigshootout in Casablanca uh a
couple of years ago down on thestrip at the uh at the lake that
was between the Gallop and gooseand the Mongols and uh we've
known forever Gallop and goosepretty much runs Missouri that's
gets in charge and they'vethey've been hit with a Rico
case last year.
Oh uh their current president isnow in custody of our of
(43:43):
Department of MissouriDepartment of Correction Okay um
so they are still very muchactive in Missouri yeah
interesting people they hearthat name and they think you
don't know yeah but uh for thoseof us that don't know right so
we've been dealing with them foryears.
Um one more thing uh Missouri uhcorrectional association board
(44:03):
member yes yeah how'd that comeabout it's uh oh the the we have
a retired the old president hername is uh Becky Ahlers uh she
was when I first started withthe pardon she was the deputy
warden at Duvall CorrectionalCenter okay then she became the
warden um and she retired um andthen she stepped out and been a
president of MCA I really didn'thave that much knowledge of it
(44:26):
and she called me uh one day andwas like I think this is a great
opportunity for you I think thisis something that the
association needs you're youngyeah but you've got you've got
some time in you've got a lot ofexperience with dealing with um
serious situations you also havea lot of experience with just
talking to people talking tostaff bringing staff together um
(44:46):
I think you'd be a good asset tothe association and honestly at
the time I said no Becky I'm I'mbusy like I got a lot of stuff
going on yeah uh and then shecalled me again and was like
listen you've had some time tothink but I think this was a
good opportunity for you and atthat time I just started at the
training academy and I said I'mstill real busy and uh two three
(45:08):
days later she's gonna come infor her and I got an email
saying welcome to the MissouriDepartment the Missouri Craig
Association and I called her andpretty much and I uh I went to
the spring or the fall symposiumor the spring uh symposium and
it was about security threatgroups oh and so I went through
that and then afterwards had themeeting and realized yeah this
(45:31):
is what I need to be doing.
This is something I can add tomy plate to help out with
corrections not only just inMissouri but nationwide because
we can we can network each othertalk to each other uh to do the
best we can to make it safer forour not only our staff and
corrections but we're the lastline for the public also us
(45:52):
being safe means our public safetoo yeah wow fascinating
conversation though thank youvery much yeah I appreciate you
coming on here and uh hope tomaybe we'll get you on for a
whole episode sometime.
SPEAKER_01 (46:03):
Hey I'm I'm fully okay with that I'd love to talk
to you some more yep Iappreciate it have a great day
thank you too thank you guys heybefore we go I'd like to take a
minute to thank one of oursponsors Omni Real Time Locating
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(46:26):
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(46:49):
learn more about omni go to wwwnirtls.com that's omni rtls dot
com.
Or you can click on today's shownotes to get in the information
guide.
Omni real-time locating systemis a powerful tool specifically
designed for the moderncorrectional professional if you
haven't done so please take amoment to like my podcast or
(47:12):
better yet hit the subscribebutton so that you'll be
notified when the next episodecomes out thanks for listening
and let's be safe out there.
Hey before we go I'd like totake a minute to thank one of
our sponsors Omni Real TimeLocating System is a company
I've been working closely withfor years.
I'm proud to be a part of thisinnovative team that's developed
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(47:36):
your jail or prison.
Omni's pre-compliant real-timemonitoring technology is the
very best way to track andrecord your inmates' locations,
their movements theirinteractions throughout every
square inch of your correctionalfacility.
Imagine getting an alarm thesecond an escape happens or an
alert that lets you know when aninmate's heart rate drops below
(47:58):
a set level.
To learn more about omni go towwwn irtls.com that's omniartls
com.
Or you can click on today's shownotes to get in the information
guide.
Omni real time locating systemis a powerful tool specifically
designed for the moderncorrectional professional.
(48:19):
If you haven't done so pleasetake a moment to like my podcast
or better yet, hit the subscribebutton so that you'll be
notified when the next episodecomes out.
Thanks for listening and let'sbe safe out there.
Hey guys, welcome back to the Prison Officer
Podcast.
This is Mike Cantrell, and asalways, I want to stop for a
minute and I want to thankPepperball.
You know, if it wasn't for them,this podcast wouldn't be
possible.
This podcast has been listenedto in over 141 countries.
I've had over 200,000 downloads.
There's I think 113 episodes upright now.
So, you know, all thatinformation, all the people we
(00:22):
got to talk to, the greatleaders, the great trainers, uh,
you know, the people who've madetheir mark in corrections, that
wouldn't be possible withoutPepperball.
So if you get the chance, go towww.pepperball.com and just tell
them hi, tell them thank you,you know, that you appreciate
the fact that they sponsor theprison officer podcast.
(00:42):
Now, here's what I want to talkto you about this week.
If you didn't get the chance togo to the Missouri Correctional
Association slash MissouriProbation Parole Officers
Association fall conference, uh,we had it down at Chateau in the
Lake, uh Chateau at the Lake.
It's not Chateau in the Lake,it's Chateau at the Lake in
Branson, Missouri.
And uh it was a great venue, hada great time down there.
(01:04):
I got to teach a couple ofclasses and so really enjoyed
that.
But the other thing I got to dowhile I was there was sit down
and talk to some amazing people.
And so I've got these videosloaded up.
They're gonna come along here.
We're gonna talk about gangs,we're gonna talk about training
new staff, we're gonna talkabout probation and parole and
and how that works with uhkeeping our inmates and
(01:26):
offenders out of our prisons andout of our jails.
So stand by.
Hope you enjoy.
Hello, everybody, and welcomeback to the Prison Officer
Podcast.
This is Mike Cantrell.
I'm coming to you from theMissouri Correctional
Association, where I'm uhMissouri Correctional
Association and the MPPOA.
They've come together, which isthe Missouri Probation and
Parole Officers Association.
(01:47):
They come together and have afall conference uh together each
year.
And uh so I wanted to make surethat we got some probation and
parole officers in here.
So we're gonna talk to them now.
Uh Tiffany Deal.
Yes, correct.
And Christy Lockwood.
Christy Lockwood.
I don't know why I was gettingready to say Sandra, but Christy
Lockwood.
Uh Christy's retired, andTiffany still works actively.
(02:11):
Yes, I work actively at District27 at Jefferson City as a unit
supervisor.
So let me start with you.
How did you get into correctionsor probation of parole?
Did you go straight into PP?
SPEAKER_07 (02:22):
No, actually, I changed my career for 17 years
on an ambulance and decided togo to college and change my
career.
And my instructor took me toDistrict 26, Fulton, right, and
uh introduced me to Dave Meenan,who was a unit supervisor and a
trainer.
And I did an internship for sixmonths there, and here I am
(02:43):
today.
SPEAKER_01 (02:44):
Wow.
Helping people, helping people,is that the draw?
SPEAKER_07 (02:48):
That is the draw for me.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (02:50):
Yeah, you got to uh uh an ambulance uh you know
that's such important work,also.
But uh so what did you thinkwhen you first came into this?
I mean, that's they're this alittle bit the same, but they're
totally apart.
SPEAKER_07 (03:02):
Well, instead of it being like an emergency, like
you go in and you help whenyou're on an ambulance, right?
Right, it's somebody'semergency.
That's what you're doing.
SPEAKER_05 (03:10):
Okay.
SPEAKER_07 (03:11):
Instead of it being an emergency and never seeing
the follow-through or the endresult, um, I'm going in where
they're either coming out ofprison or they're coming on to
supervision.
So it's kind of their emergency,right?
Because it's changing and it'sit's made an impact on their
life.
And so we get to impact andhopefully see that huge change
(03:35):
through the time that they'rewith us to be successful
community.
SPEAKER_01 (03:39):
Yeah, I remember one thing that stuck with me.
I started at Missouri State Bendin 1992, and I don't know, six
months, a year in, I helped thesergeant escort a guy who was
getting out.
And we walked into the frontdoor and we handed him three
three dollars and fifty-fourcents, something like that.
And the guy had been down forlike 30 plus years and handed
(04:00):
him that and said, See youlater, out the front door of
Missouri State Man.
And my brain was just like, Whatwhat do you expect out of this?
You know, and I never could wrapmy head around that.
But we do that much better now,huh?
SPEAKER_07 (04:14):
We do that much better now, yes.
They come in and we help themwork with uh what we call the
Oraz and the case plans.
So we're working with thingsthat they're um barriers they're
having in life after beinglocked up for 30 years, you
know.
Now we need to help re-acclimatethem.
And some people have never had acell phone, right?
(04:35):
They've maybe dealt with an iPadin prison, but it's a little bit
different because it the cellphone has opened huge doors for
them, and they're like, Well,what do I do?
And my some of my family's gone,and where do I have you know
support?
So that's that's a main draw forus.
SPEAKER_01 (04:52):
Yeah, even 10 years with technology right now is
huge.
SPEAKER_07 (04:55):
It is huge.
SPEAKER_01 (04:57):
Christy Lockwood, yes, uh retired probation and
parole.
Tell me about how you came intothat uh position, that career.
Was it a career for you?
SPEAKER_02 (05:07):
It was a career.
I did 20 almost 27 years.
SPEAKER_01 (05:09):
Oh wow.
SPEAKER_02 (05:10):
Um I went to college uh to be a teacher and decided I
didn't like the teaching aspectof the education part of it.
So um went into criminal justiceand then did an internship with
the juvenile office and didn'twant to be that person that took
kids away from their parents.
(05:30):
Yeah, even though it may havebeen warranted, I didn't want to
get shot at.
SPEAKER_01 (05:34):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (05:35):
Or, you know, I would not be happy if someone
tried to take my kids.
SPEAKER_01 (05:37):
No, they'd get shot at, wouldn't they?
SPEAKER_02 (05:39):
Yeah.
I mean, yeah.
So I thought, okay, adultprobation.
So that's I didn't do any kindof internships or I had no idea
what I was doing when I firststarted.
I had I didn't even know reallywhat it was.
Right.
Things were just different.
SPEAKER_01 (05:59):
I didn't even I could tell you throughout my
career.
It wasn't until later in mycareer that I even understood
much about probation and parole.
Right.
You know, corrections and PP areso intertwined and so connected,
but I don't feel like we connectthe way we should.
I like seeing this in Missouri.
You don't see this everywhere.
Yeah.
Where you have corrections andprobation and parole at a
(06:19):
conference together, learningthe same things, networking.
So yeah, I think this is great.
Did you guys have anunderstanding of what went on on
the other side in corrections?
Because I didn't from my side.
SPEAKER_02 (06:33):
I didn't.
When I first started, I had noidea.
All I knew was I did not want tobe an institutional officer.
I wanted to be in the community.
SPEAKER_05 (06:40):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (06:41):
Um, but no, I didn't have any idea.
I think they've done a betterjob over the years in teaching
and educating like field staff.
SPEAKER_01 (06:50):
Is institutional officer a new thing?
SPEAKER_02 (06:52):
An IPO.
IPO, institutional paroleofficer?
No, they've been around.
SPEAKER_01 (06:55):
I don't think we had those back then.
Really?
SPEAKER_02 (06:58):
Uh-huh.
Yeah, they've been around mywhole career.
They were around.
Um institutional paroleofficers.
Um is there?
They do, I mean, they just havea different function.
SPEAKER_01 (07:10):
They're getting them ready.
SPEAKER_02 (07:11):
Getting them ready, writing reports for the board,
doing I think it's more reportwriting and we're doing ORASs
now.
SPEAKER_07 (07:19):
And so yeah, the prison assessments or forum.
SPEAKER_01 (07:22):
So are you an IPO?
SPEAKER_07 (07:24):
No, but I have been um we have JCCC and Algoa in my
district.
Right.
So luckily I've had anopportunity in the last four
months to go over to JCCC andAlgoa and kind of do some
assessments for them and helpthem start the case plan um and
get get rolling on how to tellus what you identified while
(07:48):
they were there, things thatthey were working on.
We've also started communicatinga little bit.
We're calling it like a handoff,a soft handoff.
So they're trying to call usbefore they come to us and let
us know, hey, we've recognizedthere's no transportation
because there's no driver'slicense.
We've recognized there's eventhough they're coming there,
they need to change theirperson, places, and things.
(08:08):
So there's no real familysupport.
You know, these are someidentified options that are
coming out.
SPEAKER_01 (08:14):
One of the things I saw in the feds a lot, because I
worked at Federal Medical Centerat Springfield a lot of mental
health, was there was guys whowere going to the street, but if
they had mental health problems,that's a special challenge for
you guys, isn't it?
SPEAKER_07 (08:27):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (08:28):
Trying to find a place to put them to find
someplace that wants them.
SPEAKER_07 (08:31):
But if they're coming out and they're on
medications, like that's thatsoft handoff.
SPEAKER_01 (08:34):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_07 (08:35):
And we know they're telling us um they're they're
enrolled in mat services.
Um, can we get them hooked upwith another, you know, partner
who has mat services?
So we're kind of getting thatgoing, that ball right before
they ever come out, which isnice because again, it's a hand
up for us and a hand up forthem.
SPEAKER_02 (08:54):
And that's such a change.
That's such a change from when Ifirst started.
There was no communicationbetween the field and the
institution.
So that's a positive thingthat's happened over the last
25, 20 years, probably.
More so even in the last 10years, really.
It's that's been a huge, hugechange.
Mr.
SPEAKER_07 (09:12):
Mosley's really pushing that lately for us to
make sure that you're doingokay, soft handoffs that you're
having that communicationbecause it it's the success of
our clients.
SPEAKER_01 (09:22):
Most mental health, and I dealt with a lot of you
know, people with severe mentalhealth problems, but the minute
they got out of prison, well,I've been telling them for years
I'm fine, I don't need this.
So if you don't have somebodywatching them, you know, I I was
sitting one night and uhLieutenant and I were working,
we got a call from order.
It was like, uh, best we couldtell this guy was last with you,
(09:45):
and you can hear him in thebackground.
I can hear the if eight in thebackground, who's been released
like six months ago, and he'sjust losing it.
They're like, what did you givehim when he was in?
You know, they were just attheir wit's end.
So you see uh the way we dropthe ball on that sometimes.
So that's good to hear.
That's good to hear we're doinga better job.
What's one of your biggestsuccesses?
(10:06):
What do you remember?
SPEAKER_07 (10:07):
Um of my biggest successes was about April this
year.
Uh prior to being the USsupervisor, I was an officer in
District 6.
Christy was my supervisor.
Um, and I had a client in theImproving Community Treatment
Success Program, which is theICTS.
And I was at Golden Corral, andthere was about four of my
(10:29):
previous clients there.
And my husband and I wereeating, and so one is like, and
I'm like, because I don't I trynot to I let them lead that,
right?
And so here she comes and she'stalking to me and stuff, and
then um the others come by, andthen the male client, um, we
(10:49):
worked so hard.
My partner and I, we would leaveand we they'd say, Hey, we can't
find you, he's not in groups,whatever, and we would go and we
would find him, and we're like,come on, you know, and um he
said, I just want you to I'vebeen eight months clean, I
graduated out of supervision inJanuary, and I owe everything to
you and Becky, and I just somuch appreciate it.
(11:13):
And he gave me a big old hug,and that I carry that with me
because that is one successstory that you don't always
have.
Absolutely, so yeah, he wasawesome.
SPEAKER_01 (11:25):
How about you?
Long career, you surely have asuccess story to do that.
SPEAKER_02 (11:29):
It's the same program.
SPEAKER_01 (11:30):
Oh, is this the same thing?
SPEAKER_02 (11:31):
And it's not really a specific person.
SPEAKER_01 (11:34):
Hey guys, we're recording here, I'll cut that
part out.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (11:39):
Um, it's the same program, it's the same program,
ICTS.
I was a supervisor over thatprogram, and it wasn't so much a
specific incident, but it wasjust generalized seeing people
successful.
Yeah, because you don't alwaysget that thanks or that we had
like a graduation or a ceremonywhen people would, you know,
complete their programming.
(12:01):
And they weren't secured or theyweren't successful, you know,
graduated per se, but theycompleted a program and they
were very proud of it.
And those were some of my bestmoments were just watching, and
I I didn't talk a lot at them orreally do as much as Tiffany and
Becky did as officers, but justwatching their interactions with
them, I knew they had worked sohard to get them to that point.
(12:24):
And and the client worked reallyhard to get to that point.
So they they we had mentalhealth, yeah.
SPEAKER_07 (12:28):
Oh and we Becky and I, we one time sat in a hospital
until 9 30 in the evening andemergent waiting with the client
until the staff decided thatyes, she needed a a further
evaluation.
We were her advocate, yeah, andwe were her successful need for
that advocation.
SPEAKER_01 (12:46):
That's interesting.
Uh uh, you know, in corrections,you don't often get any of that.
You don't get to see the endresult.
You know, my end result is whenI drive out of the institution
and I look around and there'snot crime being committed in the
street.
SPEAKER_03 (13:00):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (13:00):
You know, that that's what we get.
So it's it it must be uh uh itmust feel good.
unknown (13:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:06):
So let's see some of those end results and stuff.
SPEAKER_07 (13:08):
This program um definitely changed my life.
I came into P in 2020, right atlike the COVID area.
SPEAKER_05 (13:17):
Right.
SPEAKER_07 (13:17):
And Christy approached me and she's like,
Hey, we heard you would bereally good for this.
And um would you and I was like,I have a social work degree,
sure, why not?
Um and now I'm a unit supervisorthat takes care of the one in
Cole County.
Yeah, um, so I definitelybelieve in that program.
SPEAKER_01 (13:35):
So what have you seen here at the MCI and PPOA
conference?
SPEAKER_07 (13:39):
Um, I'm gonna be honest, I'm on the board of
MPPOA, so I have been reallybusy with that kind of stuff.
Put on the conference, put on aconference, yeah.
Yeah, and answering my because II am kind of in my office full
many things for some of mystaff, so I've had to answer for
you.
SPEAKER_01 (13:57):
All right, I'll be back.
Well, thank you so much forstopping by and talking to us.
Absolutely fascinating stories.
unknown (14:02):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (14:03):
Great meeting you guys.
SPEAKER_07 (14:04):
Good to meet you.
SPEAKER_01 (14:05):
Thanks, everybody.
Oh, nice meeting you.
SPEAKER_07 (14:07):
Nice to meet you.
SPEAKER_01 (14:08):
Excellent.
Well, welcome back to the PrisonOfficer Podcast.
This is Mike Cantrell again.
I'm sitting here with uh ChelseaSpackler.
Is that correct?
SPEAKER_05 (14:17):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (14:18):
Uh from the Missouri Department of Corrections.
I want to talk to her becausethey're doing some really
interesting stuff with trainingand the way they're training the
new recruits.
And uh so welcome to the PrisonOfficer Podcast, Chelsea.
SPEAKER_06 (14:30):
Thank you.
I'm happy to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (14:31):
When when did you get into corrections?
Tell me about that.
SPEAKER_06 (14:34):
Well, um, 1997, I started out at the Farmington
Correctional Center.
Um, not in a traditional role asan officer.
I started as a substance abusecounselor.
Okay.
Um, and I worked out there for acouple of years, and then
Northeast Correctional Centeropened up and I went out there
and and I became what old headswould know is classified with
the Missouri correction system.
(14:55):
Um and I just kind of workedwherever they'd give me more
money at that point.
SPEAKER_01 (14:59):
Yeah.
Farmington was a fun place tostart at 97.
They were they still doing allthe uh shock stuff down there?
SPEAKER_06 (15:06):
Yes, they yeah, they had shock treatment.
They also had the regimenteddiscipline program.
Right.
And we had saturation housingfrom all of the offenders that
had been returned from Texasfrom our cell lease program
because we didn't have enoughprison beds to house all of the
offenders that we um hadsentenced for a period of
incarceration.
SPEAKER_01 (15:25):
I was on that initial trip when I was on Sea
Stark.
Yeah, we went to Crystal City,Texas, and 24 hours straight
back, and yeah, that was a wholemess back then.
SPEAKER_06 (15:34):
Yeah, I think their first stop might have been
Farmington Correctional Center.
I know that we had severalhundred of them there.
Wow, you know, they came backnot so happy.
So yeah, my first year and ahalf was not really, I guess, in
a self-sillance abuse counselorrole because I I counted, I
inspected, I escorted, I, youknow, did all those things just
(15:54):
without the uniform.
Sure, sure.
Yeah, it was nuts.
SPEAKER_01 (15:58):
So you did that, uh, and then how did you get into
training?
SPEAKER_06 (16:03):
Oh gosh, let's see.
Um 2007.
So we're talking 10 years later,I just decided I had a bigger
impact.
I could reach more people uhthrough the training department.
Um you know, I worked my way upto functional unit manager and I
felt like I was making adifference in the housing unit
(16:25):
with the people in the housingunit and the staff in the
housing unit, but I found mytrue calling when I was being an
adjunct trainer from MissouriDepartment of Corrections, and I
just got a lot of reward fromfeeling like I was making a
difference with more people.
SPEAKER_01 (16:39):
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah, and that's uh youknow, I teach uh new staff, and
one of the things I taught tothem about whatever it is,
you've got to find your passion.
Yes, you can't do this jobforever without a passion.
Yeah.
And training was what became mypassion.
Yeah.
I didn't like my first few yearsas a correctional officer.
Oh, yeah.
I didn't.
I didn't feel like I wasaccomplishing anything, you
(17:00):
know.
And uh then when I got into uhstaff training and seeing the
results of how I could impactpeople.
SPEAKER_06 (17:06):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (17:07):
So that's kind of the same thing.
Yes, yes, definitely.
SPEAKER_06 (17:10):
Yeah, you just get more reward for your effort, I
think, when you when you seepeople succeed or you see people
promote, or you have someonejust randomly come up to you one
day and say, Hey, you know, Iknow I gave you a hard time in
class that day because I hatebeing in class, but let me tell
you what happened and how thatclass saved me or how that class
helped me.
Funny story.
(17:31):
Sure.
So I go to church in aneighborhood that's kind of
rough in in St.
Joseph, Missouri, and I waswalking to my car through this
neighborhood after service, andI see a taxi whiz by me, stop,
hit reverse, and I'm like, uhoh, what's coming?
And this lady in the backseatrolls down her window and she
starts screaming.
(17:51):
She's like, Hey, hey you! AndI'm like getting nervous.
I'm like, oh no.
And she says, You spoke at mygraduation.
I remember you, I loved yourspeech, it made a difference.
So she was a new hire that justsaw me walking down the street
and had to let me know I made adifference for her.
SPEAKER_01 (18:10):
You're you're getting ready to retire.
And you mentioned that uh one ofthe things that surprised me in
retirement is how many phonecalls I've gotten after
retirement when people justwon't go, hey, I got this
promotion, hey, I appreciateyour investing in me and that
type of stuff.
So I hope that happens for youtoo.
SPEAKER_06 (18:28):
Oh, I hope so too.
Yeah.
You know, deciding to retire isprobably the hardest decision to
make.
I know everyone works for itgoing the day I'm eligible, I'm
out, but the day that comes,you're going, yeah, I'm
eligible, but what's next?
You know, so yeah, it was areally hard decision because I
love what I do and I love thepeople that I work with.
(18:48):
Um but I've checked off all thecheck marks on my list.
And so, you know, it's time tolet someone else take the hell
in and see what they can do withit.
SPEAKER_01 (18:57):
Yeah.
Who knows?
I tell people I failedretirement.
I'm still, I mean, I go out allthe time and I'm teaching
correctional law through lawenforcement, and I'm working as
hard now, probably, as I wasthen.
Yeah.
Podcast.
I love it.
I love it.
Yeah.
So tell me about uh where areyou at now?
SPEAKER_06 (19:14):
I'm at the Academy for Excellence in Corrections
located in Cameron, Missouri.
SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
Okay.
And I'm that used to beCrossroads.
SPEAKER_06 (19:21):
It used to be Western Missouri Corrector.
SPEAKER_01 (19:22):
Western Missouri Correctional Center.
Okay.
SPEAKER_06 (19:24):
Crossroads is still there.
We share perimeter road.
SPEAKER_01 (19:26):
Okay.
SPEAKER_06 (19:27):
Um, yeah, and so we've retrofitted a prison into
a training academy.
SPEAKER_03 (19:35):
Sorry.
SPEAKER_06 (19:35):
That is uh let me tell you what, it I've never
seen anything like it.
I've never heard of anythinglike it.
Our leadership here with theMissouri Department of
Corrections is just soinnovative in their approach on
how to help staff be the bestthey can.
And you know, our mission andvision statement, the the vision
part of that statement isproviding excellence in
(19:57):
corrections for a saferMissouri.
And so this Academy forExcellence and Corrections helps
everyone in the state that hiresin in a custody role learn our
standard of what we expectexcellence to be.
Right.
And so we're truly investing inthe future of the Missouri
Department of Corrections byhaving this opportunity.
(20:17):
I mean, how many places get anopportunity to close a prison?
It's still viable enough to turninto a training center and then
retrofit it with all of thismodern equipment.
Um, and I know people are like,Oh, I'm gonna have to live in a
cell, but let me tell you what,they're unrecognizable.
SPEAKER_05 (20:34):
Right.
SPEAKER_06 (20:35):
They are uh nicer than hotel rooms, I would say.
And the people that stay thereare like, yeah, this is really
nice.
And they're almost equivalent tolike a college-style dorm room
now.
SPEAKER_01 (20:45):
Yeah.
Well, you called it immersivetraining.
SPEAKER_06 (20:47):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (20:48):
So tell me what you're you're you've hired on of
the Missouri Department ofCorrections.
Tell me what's gonna happen.
SPEAKER_06 (20:53):
Well, a whole lot's gonna happen.
That's true.
Uh we have it's a seven-weekprocess from start to finish.
So it's not really differentthan what it was before.
It's just now instead of doing achunk of it here and then doing
the other chunk here, it's everyother week they're doing
something.
So they'll do a week at theirwork site of orientation,
(21:15):
important paperwork, um, somee-learning modules online to
prepare them for when they cometo academy.
And then every new hire,regardless of job titles, is
gonna do a region week oftraining.
And so each of the threeregional training centers in the
state give every single newemployee the same program
regardless of where they'regonna go work.
SPEAKER_05 (21:34):
Okay.
SPEAKER_06 (21:34):
Then they do a work site week again, regardless of
where they're gonna go work, andthen our corrections, our
custody officers, they all cometo the officer academy at the
Academy for Excellence andCorrections.
And when they get there, thefirst thing they get is the best
part of training, the mostentertaining, funnest part of it
all.
They get all the rules.
(21:55):
Yeah, and then they get a tourof the facility because you know
that the facility, we're notusing the entirety of it for the
academy.
It's a huge facility.
And so we've marked off aquarter of it, a quadrant of the
facility is what we use for theacademy.
The administration building,full use, everything training
related.
(22:16):
And then most of our centralservices, down to like the
warehouse, is all trainingrelated.
Um, so they get to see thetraining unit, which is the old
administrative segregation unitthat has been cleaned out,
gutted, but then all offenderbunks put back in.
Every single DAI facility in thestate has donated uh offender
(22:36):
property, contraband, somedangerous contraband, which we
trap very closely.
Um, but we'll set it out.
We've made it safe.
So if there's like a knife,we've dolled the edges or taped
it over with real thick tape.
So as an officer's learningsearch, they don't actually cut
themselves with real dangerouscontraband, you know.
But yeah, everything in thetraining unit is authentic
(22:58):
offender property.
And so they learn to count inthere, they learn to search in
there, they learn to packoffender property in there, they
learn um all the basic, reallyimportant skills of a
corrections officer.
And it's right next door towhere they get to stay, too.
SPEAKER_01 (23:13):
That is a far cry from 1992.
SPEAKER_03 (23:16):
Yeah, it sure is.
SPEAKER_01 (23:17):
We were I went to work at Jefferson City and there
was a hotel up there.
Don't remember the name of it,but we were in the basement of
that hotel.
Uh-huh.
Uh they came in, gave us a a redfolder, this pair of uh binder.
Uh-huh.
And other than defensivetactics, we didn't leave for I
mean, that's what we talkedabout for two weeks.
SPEAKER_04 (23:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:37):
And then that was it.
SPEAKER_06 (23:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:38):
And then you just got and we got thrown in.
SPEAKER_06 (23:41):
You just get sent to go, okay, that's where you're
gonna be today.
SPEAKER_01 (23:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (23:44):
Yeah.
And you know, I think thedepartment learned that the more
we invest in someone at the verystart, the more likely they are
to return that investment.
And you know, in the world ofbusiness, ROI is like that's
everything, the return oninvestment.
And so our hope is that we get areturn on our investment by
having a well-trained quadraticstaff that are interested in
(24:08):
staying and helping get theMissouri Department of
Corrections to be the forefrontof corrections.
SPEAKER_01 (24:15):
One thing I've learned since retiring and going
out and training and and talkingto sheriffs and wardens across
the nation, um we we talk abouthaving this problem with
retention, but it's not theretention.
Everybody keeps throwing moneyat it, and everybody keeps
throwing this type of stuff atit.
The thing I see the most iswhether or not the staff feel
(24:36):
safe when they walk in.
If they walk in and they feellike they've got the skills to
deal with whatever comes atthem, and I remember that.
I mean, I didn't we just gotthrown in.
We didn't have skills to thestreet.
SPEAKER_06 (24:49):
I was mortified the first time I did a pet search
because I had I was in a diningroom, you know, and I had a
hundred offenders watching me doit completely wrong on another
offender.
SPEAKER_03 (24:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (25:00):
You know, and so that's embarrassing.
SPEAKER_03 (25:02):
Sure.
SPEAKER_06 (25:02):
You know, and that doesn't happen.
It should not be happening nowif the program is being
followed.
Yeah.
Because after the first weekwith us, then they go to their
work site and the um on the jobcomponent it follows.
So they have an they have an OJTchecklist, is what we call it.
SPEAKER_03 (25:17):
Right.
SPEAKER_06 (25:17):
And we go over all these critical skills in the
three and a half days of a weekthat they're with us, and then
they go to their work site, andnow they do that checklist with
the skills that we have giventhem time to practice without
the audience.
Oh, yeah.
You know, practice to gethands-on, and then they get to
perform those with their fieldtraining officers at their work
site.
And so it's like in the world ofeducation, we're scaffolding
(25:40):
this knowledge now to build itone plank against another plank
or another plank.
And it just, I mean, I know it'sa catchphrase that we started
several years ago, but justseeing the confidence for the
right reasons in these newofficers is confidence and
skill, knowledge of policy.
SPEAKER_01 (25:58):
Those are people that they're gonna stick around.
SPEAKER_06 (26:02):
Yeah, that's the hope.
SPEAKER_01 (26:03):
Well, I mean so much is scary about prison when you
first walk in.
SPEAKER_06 (26:08):
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (26:09):
You know, and I've seen so many people over the
years.
I've seen I've seen staff withthe first day of training when
we show a couple of films,they're gonna go.
They just walk out, yeah.
Yeah, I wasn't ready for this.
SPEAKER_06 (26:19):
Yeah, that's not what I thought it was.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:23):
So they come in, they live there for the week.
SPEAKER_06 (26:26):
Uh huh.
SPEAKER_01 (26:27):
Uh I mean they've got mattresses and stuff.
Oh, real beds.
It's good to go.
So, what's a day look like?
SPEAKER_06 (26:34):
Oh, typical day at the academy.
Um, we open up the dining roomaround 6 30.
We got free coffee in there.
And we don't have hot meals forbreakfast, but we provide
oatmeal packets, cereal packets,fresh fruit, stuff like that.
And then they report to theirfirst class at 8 a.m.
And every morning in OfficerAcademy is a two-hour block of
(26:54):
classroom in the cell house.
Not all of them.
SPEAKER_01 (26:57):
Okay.
SPEAKER_06 (26:57):
So the first two hours of every day is doing
defensive tactics.
And we used to do all of it allat once.
So it was a full day, full day,full day of nothing but you
know, learning how to take downand control if necessary.
You know.
Um, but now it's two hours at atime.
SPEAKER_05 (27:13):
Okay.
SPEAKER_06 (27:14):
And that gives them an opportunity to build upon it
every day, and and they'reactually doing really well
retaining it through the full uhthree-week portion of the
officer training academy withthe work site weeks in between.
And and they're doing reallywell with the testing process
and the but so every morningthey start with footwork and
then a different skill, and andthen they get a little bit of a
(27:36):
longer break after that firsttwo-hour block of instruction,
and then they go to their nextblock of instruction.
Now, our classes, since we'retraining statewide, they've
gotten really big.
And so the training team has hadto really evaluate how do we do
this effectively for everybodyto be able to learn.
And so it's kind of a messyprocess for someone that doesn't
(27:58):
understand the cycle.
Um, but we break the groups intocohorts and we usually assign it
by color.
So we may have an orange cohort,a yellow cohort, and a green
cohort.
And it's about 50 cadets pertrainer.
SPEAKER_03 (28:12):
Okay.
SPEAKER_06 (28:12):
And then so though they will rotate through those
modules of instructionthroughout the day so that we
don't have all 200 cadets in onespot at the same time.
So, like we could have from 10to noon, we could have 50 cadets
out in the parking lot learninghow to do uh perimeter checks,
fence checks, all of that stuff,while another 50 are in the
(28:33):
training unit learning how tocount, while another 50 are in
food service learning how tosearch and and just monitor uh
an eating a dining room, or sureuh or maybe they're in a
visiting area learning how tohandle the different things that
can happen in a visiting room.
So they and they rotate throughthat, but they all get the same
modules within the same day.
(28:53):
They just rotate every two hoursfrom one section to another, to
another.
SPEAKER_01 (28:57):
Yeah, yeah, makes sense.
Yeah.
So my first interview, and I'vetalked about this in my book.
Uh my first interview, HR askedme, you know, have you ever had
a felony?
Do you do drugs?
And there was this old crustycaptain sitting over there.
And she said, Do you haveanything for him?
And he goes, You ever been in afight?
And I didn't know how to answerit.
(29:17):
You know, I was like, uh baby.
He's like, You ever win any?
A couple.
That was it.
That was the only question thecustody asked me.
And I was hired.
SPEAKER_06 (29:28):
They put you on the front man of a five-man team.
They did immediately.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:32):
So yeah, the world's changed.
I'm glad to see that.
That uh uh, you know, I can'tsay enough about making our
staff feel safe inside.
That's such a huge thing.
And that sounds like what youguys are uh aiming towards and
giving them the knowledge andthe abilities.
SPEAKER_04 (29:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:51):
Uh I will tell you that the Missouri Department of
Corrections gave me betterdefensive tactics than I had at
any other place back then.
SPEAKER_06 (29:59):
Really that I carry.
SPEAKER_01 (30:00):
through my entire career.
SPEAKER_06 (30:01):
Yeah.
We hear that from a lot ofindividuals who've come to us
from military or othercorrections departments in other
states.
SPEAKER_01 (30:08):
So they're very grateful for the training that
we're stopping by and talking tome.
SPEAKER_06 (30:16):
And I really think we're doing big stuff.
You know, and it's it it was ahard decision to walk away from
it.
But you know it's um gosh, ittook so long to get there.
And I I had a vision of what itneeded to be to get there and
and we got there.
And so now it's someone else'sturn to kind of you know tweak
it and get it to where it'ssustainable for a long time.
(30:39):
And I really think it is.
And it's amazing what I mean theprogram how it how it all came
together is just absolutelyamazing.
SPEAKER_01 (30:48):
Credit to the vision visionary who thought of this
it's just but you're you'regonna see the results of that
work for forever.
SPEAKER_06 (30:56):
Hopefully yeah I'm just grateful to have been a
part of it.
SPEAKER_01 (30:58):
I'd like to go see it sometime.
SPEAKER_06 (31:00):
Yeah we'll ask we'll I'm sure we could get you in
there.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:05):
Well I hope you have a great day.
Thank you you too thank youwe'll see you soon hello
everybody and welcome back tothe prison officer podcast.
My name's Mike Cantrell and I'mhere at the uh Missouri
Correctional Association FallConference in Branson, Missouri
at the beautiful Chateau on thelake.
Um this is a new venue and uhit's uh it's a really nice
(31:28):
place.
We're having a lot of fun a lotof classes going on and I'm
grabbing some of these uh peopleand um talking to them finding
out what's going on with theMissouri Correctional
Association.
So I've got with me today Mr.
Farrell Rooks and he is asubject matter expert on games
uh for the training academy soum welcome to the prison officer
(31:48):
podcast thank you I appreciateit yeah so how did you get into
corrections?
I always like to start therebecause everybody found a
different path coming to work atcorrections.
How did it work for you?
SPEAKER_00 (31:58):
Yeah mine was a little bit different.
So uh I'm originally from thesouth side of St.
Louis okay uh uh went to collegedidn't finish it uh I got into
uh retail work in the day andthen I was got in security so I
was a bouncer uh some clubs andsmaller bars things like that I
(32:19):
had a little bit of backgroundin boxing and wrestling and
things like that so that waskind of my niche and then I had
a uh basically a sit-down withmy older sisters I got two older
sisters were 16 to 17 yearsapart and that was just kind of
not saying that the job that Iwas doing was an important job
but they sat me down it was likelittle brother's time to get a
big boy job.
(32:39):
Sure and you probably need tolook at um a state or a federal
job and I thought about policebecoming a police officer uh and
my sister who's she's retiredmilitary she did 20 years in the
Navy uh she said if you want togo into that have you looked at
corrections first that they'llteach you how to talk to
somebody whether than whatyou're doing now is basically
(33:02):
using your hands to make them dowhat you want them to do.
Good analogy yeah uh so uh atthat time I I put my application
in and um I got uh hired on atPacific which is right outside
of St.
Louis um and then I actually hadtoo many family members that
were there as uh offenders.
SPEAKER_01 (33:22):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (33:22):
So I couldn't work there uh and then Boom Vote
Correctional Center called me uha couple of days later and
that's where I started my careerwith the department.
Excellent excellent umcorrectional officer is that how
you came in yeah but I came inas a CL1 um and once I came in I
kind of I really enjoyed justbeing a CL1 I I started uh I
(33:44):
became a member of the Cert teamour correction mercy response
team um and that really drew mein and made me stick around a
lot uh and I actually did notwant to promote I just I wanted
to be a CO1 I was in segregationwhich I liked loved working yeah
um I like dealing with difficultoffenders that's what I like
doing um but then theopportunity came about and the
(34:07):
segregation sergeant positioncame up and it was day shift
with weekends off had never hada weekend day off um so I got
lucky and I interviewed and Igot on my first try uh and I
also got into training which iswhat I'm doing now but I started
off with defensive tactics gotinto firearms PR-24 uh our
(34:30):
movement teams rise disturbancesuh violence is what I like we
call it hard skills right uhthose are the things I like I
didn't know the MissouriDepartment of Correction still
had the PR 24 we do yeah we doit's it's it's so ancient I love
it uh but I love that sidehandle uh it gives us so much
control uh but I'll think I loveI'm actually a senior instructor
(34:53):
through uh Safari Land on thatso I I trained the trainers on
PR 24.
SPEAKER_01 (34:59):
Yeah no I missed mine when I went from the state
of Missouri to the feds uh wedidn't have those and I missed
it because that was somethingyou could it was always there
for you if you were working uhdo you have it at all
institutions or certainpositions now every everybody
that every person that's amember of CERT has to be
certified at a okay cool yeah soyou're a gang specialist yes
(35:21):
how'd you get into that umcoming growing up where I came
up there were gangs everywhereokay uh all through St.
SPEAKER_00 (35:28):
Louis um I have some families I'm part of uh gangs
and I was just kind of uhworking in SEG and my stars at
the time uh Sergeant uh Morriswas the one of the at that time
gang task force officers and Ijust happened to walk back to
he's looking at a picture ofthis guy online he's throwing up
(35:50):
a hand signal I said oh wellhe's a part of this and he like
turned around and said how doyou know that I was like uh I
don't know like I I just do yeahuh and then that's kind of how I
got my foot into the door and uhonce he retired uh we switched
from considering that as a gametask force as a security threat
group right because that's whenwe consider them they're a
(36:10):
threat to our security inside ofour facility and then I became
the security threat groupofficer at Bloomville and then
did that for a year or two andthen I became a co-coordinator
with our investigator.
Yeah and I did that until I camedown to the training center.
SPEAKER_01 (36:26):
So just from my own curiosity you know I I I started
Missouri Stick Penn in 92 andbasically there was the Aryan
Brotherhood and there was theMuslims but they they controlled
every other gang.
But you went to those two peopleum and then when I went feds the
feds were tracking like I don'tknow the feds they're tracking
like 50 gangs when I went to thefederal system so it was a huge
(36:47):
shock for me to have to learnall that so what's going on or
you know you don't have to getreal specific but what gangs are
are current I guess in theMissouri Department of
Corrections?
What are you dealing with themost?
SPEAKER_00 (37:00):
So one of our most uh difficult gangs that we deal
with is a security therapycalled Family Values.
Yeah um it started off as kindof a white separatist group uh
but now they evolve and theykeep on evolving um those are
the ones we probably had themost difficulty with very well
versed in manipulating staffvery good at that we also have a
(37:22):
large population of gangsterdisciples uh inside of Missouri
Part of Corrections Chicagobased mainly Chicago based St.
Hills makes the sense makes thesense they're coming that
direction so we so we have alarge group of that but we're
also dealing with these hybridgangs okay which are a
combination between streak andprison gangs that's really
(37:43):
coming up and I think they'regonna be the next big thing.
It's not like the we was back inthe 60s 70s and 80s were just
floods and cryps and that wasit.
SPEAKER_05 (37:53):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (37:53):
Because a lot of these organizations like the
gang socials the cribs theystarted back in the 60s now the
real gang culture has evolvednow now we're dealing with those
individuals great greatgrandkids and there's so and
there's so many of them that uhthey may be having an issue with
(38:15):
another screen threat group butthen they have a cousin that's a
a a rival of that so are youreally going to kill your blood
family over it no so then theywill they will start up a hybrid
gang for it.
So it's kind of interesting Iactually had a conversation at
the Ms Midwest gang investigateassociation with an officer
(38:36):
where he's it's not unknown insaying let's pull over a vehicle
and you have a trip or blood onthe same vehicle because they're
all related and they're hangingout together and back in because
when I grew up in the 80s andearly 90s that was unheard of
right yeah now I saw gang overmy career that would work
together for money for drugs andfor sex.
SPEAKER_01 (38:59):
They could be polar opposites but if they could help
each other get that then theywould work together.
SPEAKER_00 (39:05):
That's interesting that you've got these they're
working together now becausethey got family members they got
people they know and yeah andthey're all related and and we
still have those groups that ummaybe in the past uh that were
let's say a black supremacist orwhite supremacist group that
really didn't mess with theother race but now if you can
make me some money then we canat least talk.
(39:27):
Yeah right we can at least havea conversation um it's it I I
think Missouri is highlydifferent especially talking
with people from other states inthe sense that we aren't so
segregated as most states.
So you go down to Oklahoma,Texas, those places they
self-segregate themselves.
But in Missouri we're kind ofthe the melting pot so it's not
(39:49):
difficult for out of the norm towalk out of city you'll see
white guys hang out with blackguys black guys hang out with
Hispanic guys.
It's just Missouri's a littlebit different and they their
focus mainly is on money.
SPEAKER_01 (40:01):
Yeah that's interesting I came from a very
small town and and knew nothingabout gangs when I walked into
Missouri State Pen and I mean soyou just get hit in the face
with it.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:13):
Midwest Gang Investigators Association so
you're a part of that yeah so soI've been a member for about
three three four years um andthat's basically everybody in
the Midwest uh and is ininvolved with law enforcement
but we have uh PMP state andfederal PMP you have deputies
high patrol we had a uh BorderPatrol agent just uh this past
(40:37):
couple weeks ago come in andtalk at our conference uh we had
a conservation agent that wasinvolved in the shooting dealing
with sovereign citizens oh wow afew years ago at the conference
also uh and we go to conferenceand it's really about networking
getting to know people spreadinginformation and talking uh
because I think just lawenforcement period gatekeep some
(40:59):
information from each other thebad guys aren't right they're
talking to each other so that'skind of like our our president
uh Cynthia Lowe's uh she pushesthat at our conferences of
making us sit down talk to eachother no nobody's gonna be some
cool guy sitting in the backtrying to be incognito you need
to get up and talk to peoplenetwork so we can somehow uh do
(41:21):
as much as we can to defeat thegang violence that's going on.
SPEAKER_01 (41:24):
Do you think general law enforcement understands how
much Intel travels throughcorrections?
SPEAKER_00 (41:30):
I think they're starting to realize I think
they're starting they'restarting to realize it uh
because the outside lawenforcement our patrol officers
they have a very very dangerousjob um they have a mortality
rate way higher than correctionsuh but they only deal with those
offenders for a short period oftime and then they come to us
and they're with us the majorityof their incarceration um we
(41:54):
know more about them than theirmothers do sometimes way more
way more um I have offendersthat will be stuck in my mind
forever that I could be theycould be walking in front of me
at Walmart I can tell youexactly who they are uh what
their mentality is when they'reupset about something uh when
they're angry about something uhwhen they haven't eaten when
(42:14):
they're on dope when they're offof dope uh and and and I think
that information getting it tooutside of law enforcement is
gonna help them become saferwhen they're dealing with these
guys when they're out on thestreet.
Absolutely uh especially oureven our own PP staff that are
out uh out on the street andwhat they're gonna do when
they're gonna do a home vis andthen walk into their homework
(42:36):
they don't know what's gonnahappen when the door opens up
but if they had some informationprior to them getting there
maybe I need to know how to sitdown and talk with these
individuals uh some of the classthat I taught when they bring up
the most like a gangs byinforming them that if you sit
and you talk to one of thoseguys and you call them a gang
(42:56):
yeah you shut down theconversation they're not a gang
they're a club right in theirworld in their world yeah right
so just knowing little piece ofinformation like that when you
become um involved with thescreen threat groups helps you
be helps you be safe and dealingwith those guys.
Is Missouri still pretty uh um Iknow motorcycle clubs have been
a a problem in Missouri for along time they still are oh
(43:19):
absolutely okay um we had a bigshootout in Casablanca uh a
couple of years ago down on thestrip at the uh at the lake that
was between the Gallop and gooseand the Mongols and uh we've
known forever Gallop and goosepretty much runs Missouri that's
gets in charge and they'vethey've been hit with a Rico
case last year.
Oh uh their current president isnow in custody of our of
(43:43):
Department of MissouriDepartment of Correction Okay um
so they are still very muchactive in Missouri yeah
interesting people they hearthat name and they think you
don't know yeah but uh for thoseof us that don't know right so
we've been dealing with them foryears.
Um one more thing uh Missouri uhcorrectional association board
(44:03):
member yes yeah how'd that comeabout it's uh oh the the we have
a retired the old president hername is uh Becky Ahlers uh she
was when I first started withthe pardon she was the deputy
warden at Duvall CorrectionalCenter okay then she became the
warden um and she retired um andthen she stepped out and been a
president of MCA I really didn'thave that much knowledge of it
(44:26):
and she called me uh one day andwas like I think this is a great
opportunity for you I think thisis something that the
association needs you're youngyeah but you've got you've got
some time in you've got a lot ofexperience with dealing with um
serious situations you also havea lot of experience with just
talking to people talking tostaff bringing staff together um
(44:46):
I think you'd be a good asset tothe association and honestly at
the time I said no Becky I'm I'mbusy like I got a lot of stuff
going on yeah uh and then shecalled me again and was like
listen you've had some time tothink but I think this was a
good opportunity for you and atthat time I just started at the
training academy and I said I'mstill real busy and uh two three
(45:08):
days later she's gonna come infor her and I got an email
saying welcome to the MissouriDepartment the Missouri Craig
Association and I called her andpretty much and I uh I went to
the spring or the fall symposiumor the spring uh symposium and
it was about security threatgroups oh and so I went through
that and then afterwards had themeeting and realized yeah this
(45:31):
is what I need to be doing.
This is something I can add tomy plate to help out with
corrections not only just inMissouri but nationwide because
we can we can network each othertalk to each other uh to do the
best we can to make it safer forour not only our staff and
corrections but we're the lastline for the public also us
(45:52):
being safe means our public safetoo yeah wow fascinating
conversation though thank youvery much yeah I appreciate you
coming on here and uh hope tomaybe we'll get you on for a
whole episode sometime.
SPEAKER_01 (46:03):
Hey I'm I'm fully okay with that I'd love to talk
to you some more yep Iappreciate it have a great day
thank you too thank you guys heybefore we go I'd like to take a
minute to thank one of oursponsors Omni Real Time Locating
System is a company I've beenworking closely with for years.
I'm proud to be a part of thisinnovative team that's developed
the best real-time locatingsystem on the market today for
(46:26):
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guide.
Omni real-time locating systemis a powerful tool specifically
designed for the moderncorrectional professional if you
haven't done so please take amoment to like my podcast or
(47:12):
better yet hit the subscribebutton so that you'll be
notified when the next episodecomes out thanks for listening
and let's be safe out there.
Hey before we go I'd like totake a minute to thank one of
our sponsors Omni Real TimeLocating System is a company
I've been working closely withfor years.
I'm proud to be a part of thisinnovative team that's developed
the best real-time locatingsystem on the market today for
(47:36):
your jail or prison.
Omni's pre-compliant real-timemonitoring technology is the
very best way to track andrecord your inmates' locations,
their movements theirinteractions throughout every
square inch of your correctionalfacility.
Imagine getting an alarm thesecond an escape happens or an
alert that lets you know when aninmate's heart rate drops below
(47:58):
a set level.
To learn more about omni go towwwn irtls.com that's omniartls
com.
Or you can click on today's shownotes to get in the information
guide.
Omni real time locating systemis a powerful tool specifically
designed for the moderncorrectional professional.
(48:19):
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