September 1, 2025 • 34 mins
What makes a truly effective correctional leader? In this thought-provoking episode, Michael Cantrell draws from decades of experience to unpack the three essential qualities officers desperately want from their supervisors: knowledge, willingness, and courage.
Correctional officers seek leaders who possess deep knowledge about policies, case law, and facility operations—creating a foundation of confidence and security. They need supervisors willing to step up during challenging situations and act as shields, protecting their teams from both unreasonable administrative demands and front-line dangers. Most critically, they require leaders with the courage to act decisively when faced with difficult circumstances.
Cantrell explores how successful correctional leaders maintain clear visions that extend beyond themselves, establishing high expectations that motivate their teams toward excellence. He examines how a leader's treatment of others—from subordinates to superiors to inmates—reveals their character and shapes the entire facility's culture.
The conversation delves into how effective leaders combat the pervasive discouragement that can infiltrate correctional work by highlighting purpose and meaning. Even when results aren't immediately visible, the work of maintaining public safety represents a vital contribution to society that leaders must continually reinforce.
Perhaps surprisingly, Cantrell emphasizes the crucial role of appropriate humor in correctional leadership. The ability to find joy amidst challenges creates resilience against the inherent stresses of the profession and builds stronger connections among team members.
Whether you're a seasoned correctional supervisor or aspiring to leadership, this episode provides valuable insights for building stronger, more effective teams in one of society's most challenging environments.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey guys, before I get to our first guest, I just
want to take a moment today andthank Pepperball.
You know they've been a sponsorof the Prison Officer Podcast
for more than three years andwithout their sponsorship I
wouldn't be able to bring thiscontent to you.
We wouldn't be able to havethese great conversations with
these leaders and trainers incorrections.
You know I used Pepperball formore than 20 years when I was
(00:24):
working in the institution.
It was something I believed in,so it was easy for me when I
got the chance to become amaster instructor for Pepperball
.
I get to go out and train lawenforcement and corrections and
I get to see you guys in thefield, so I really appreciate
that.
The great thing aboutPepperball is it gives the
officers the confidence to havea tool that they can use that
(00:46):
they know is going to work.
If you would reach out toPepperball wwwpepperballcom and
thank them for sponsoring thePrison Officer Podcast and,
while you're there, see all thenew things that are part of the
Pepperball family, hello andwelcome back to the Prison
Officer Podcast.
My name is Mike Cantrell.
Today we're going to talk aboutleadership.
(01:08):
We're going to talk about whatcorrectional officers want from
their leaders and we're going totalk about what good
correctional leaders do.
Before we step off into that, Ijust want to catch you up on a
couple of things.
One if you'll look behind me,you'll see my book, my latest
book, power Skills, which isemotional intelligence for
correctional officers anddetention officers and those in
(01:29):
the public service profession.
I just want to thank everybody.
You guys have sales, have donegreat.
I appreciate the outpouring ofsupport that I've had for that
book.
I'm very proud of it.
I'm very happy with it.
I do think it's a book that isnecessary for corrections.
If you are a training officer,if you run an academy, feel free
to reach out to me because Iwould like to see everybody
(01:54):
coming in, get the copy of thatbook so I can talk to you about
some bulk pricing and stuff.
But that book breaks down acouple of the things that we
really have challenges withright now in corrections.
One of those is the ability tocommunicate.
Some of our newer officers have.
They struggle a lot with justbeing able to walk up to a
person, any person, and start aconversation and, as you all
(02:16):
know, in corrections that's ahuge part of what we do being
able to communicate instantlyand effectively with people.
So that's part of the book, andthe other part of it goes into
social skills.
You know, some of those skillsthat are missing from the newer
generation.
I'm not saying there's anythingwrong.
I'm just saying that, you know,focus isn't where it used to be
and we're a lot more tied intowhether it be internet or
(02:39):
whether it be phones or thedigital age as a whole, and so
it talks about some of thesocial skills.
I truly believe that readingthat book gives you power skills
when it comes to being acorrectional officer.
So I just wanted to thankeverybody for that.
If you'll also look over there,you'll see.
(03:00):
While I've been off for a littlebit, I'll talk about that.
I had a chance.
I've had a couple of booksfloating around in my head for a
while, and they are children'sbooks.
The one behind me is called howdo rainbows grow?
And uh, my son asked me when hewas about three, 20, oh shoot,
maybe 30 years ago.
But uh, he asked me and he saiddaddy, how do rainbows grow?
(03:23):
And I sat down and wrote alittle poem about it, and I've
been looking for a while for away to illustrate it, and so,
with some of the time off I'vehad.
Recently I got to take the timeand I have put out three
children's books.
So if you'd like to, if youhave children, if you'd like to
check those out, probably theeasiest way I mean, you can look
(03:47):
them up on Amazon, and it is.
How Do Rainbows Grow is one ofthem, sky School is another one
and Grandma's Cloud Parade isthe other one.
The easier way to find it mightbe to go to my writing page and
that is Cantrell Writes all oneword, cantrellwritescom, and
and you can go there and you cansee all my books.
But uh, I do appreciate thesupport I've had and I'm even.
(04:10):
We'll get these children'sbooks out.
I'm going to have a launch herein a couple of weeks and so be
looking for that Also.
The reason I had a little bit oftime off is because I have been
sitting around at the house alot more.
I recently had a shouldersurgery, had a replacement, so
had a little bit of downtime.
So I've spent some time herecatching up on books and
(04:31):
articles and things.
I've been writing a couple ofclasses and I just want to let
you guys know how important itis for you to take care of
yourself because, although theywon't actually say you know,
this was when your shoulder gothurt.
I know when I started havingtrouble with it, and it was
after a use of force back in2011.
And I've had trouble with itever since, ended up taking some
(04:54):
shots.
It's finally developed to thepoint that they had to go in
there and replace it, and Iattribute that to how hard this
job is on our body.
So I encourage all of you tonot only take care of yourself
physically, but to understandthat when you have a use of
force, de-escalation is the wayto go.
Going through that door, there'sonly two things you get.
(05:15):
One is the chance for liabilityYou've heard me say this before
and the other one's the chancefor injury.
So here I am, however, manyyears later, with an injury that
haunts me even after I'm doneand retired.
So, uh, but I'm doing well,everything feels good, I really
appreciate my doctors.
They did a great job and Iexpect a full recovery.
So what else?
(05:36):
Uh, command presence Uh, we'vebeen.
I've been putting off doingsome classes, but it's going to
get really busy here in a littlebit.
So if you would go tocommandpresencenet, check out
the website there.
You know we started developingthis year corrections specific
classes and I'm very proud ofthose.
We've given a bunch of them.
We just gave our firstcorrectional training officer
(05:58):
class with the coach train andevaluate method and that's
something that Command Prespresence has been doing on the
law enforcement side for a longtime.
We've developed that, made itspecific for corrections and so
we put out that first class.
It went wonderful.
I did it up in Michigan andthank you to all you guys that
attended.
We had a great time.
I learned a lot.
(06:19):
I'm sure they learned a lot andI appreciate it.
But we've got some classescoming up in September
Excellence in Corrections I'mgoing to be back in Michigan
teaching Excellence inCorrections.
October 1st through 4th I'mgoing to be in Branson teaching
a couple of classes and we'llhave the podcast down there at
the Missouri CorrectionalAssociation, missouri Probation
(06:39):
and Parole Officers AssociationConference down there in Branson
.
I've been there the last threeyears and taught there.
October I will go to New Mexicoand go to the Southwest public
safety and correctionsconference down there.
I just finalized that.
So I'll be speaking down thereand so if you're in the area,
come by and check us out.
(07:00):
November I'll be going back toMichigan again A lot of time in
Michigan, but I appreciate itand we're going to be doing a
report writing class up there.
I think it's Ottawa County, soget on the website, check that
out.
And then in January I'vealready got one scheduled for
New Mexico and I'm going to bedown there teaching excellence
for corrections.
So get on the command presencewebsite, check out those
(07:21):
upcoming classes.
I'd love to see you there.
Let me know where you heardabout it, because it's so
interesting and fun.
When I get into class andpeople go hey, I heard about
this and I listened to yourpodcast and you know that feels
good.
It truly does.
I'm glad there's people outthere that that gets so much out
of this podcast.
So I think that's about it,just catching everything up.
(07:44):
So one of the questions I getasked often is what do
correctional officers want froma leader?
Usually in class and we'll goover some of this you know you
go to a leadership class andthey say you know what was the
quality, the best quality, ofyour favorite leader?
But when I talk about whatcorrectional officers want from
(08:06):
a leader, I've kind of narrowedit down to three things.
Okay, the first onecorrectional officers want
supervisors or leaders that areknowledgeable, that are
knowledgeable about their job,that are knowledgeable about
policy, that are knowledgeableabout case law, that are
knowledgeable about their shift,that are knowledgeable about
(08:27):
case law, that are knowledgeableabout their shift and who works
on their shift.
Okay, that's what they'relooking for.
They're looking for that personwith the knowledge to take them
down the road safely, avoidingliability, avoiding injury.
That's one of the first thingswe look for.
The second thing that we lookfor is a supervisor or a leader
(08:48):
who is willing.
Okay, now, what does that mean?
That they're willing?
Well, willing means that andI've had this happen where I was
working a seg unit I've got oneof them inmates.
You know he's on the door, bam,bam, bam, and it's all night,
it's two hours, three hours,whatever.
And you call down theLieutenant's office and you're
like Lieutenant, I've got thisguy, he's.
(09:08):
He's hitting his head againstthe wall, he's kicking the door,
he's making noise, he's got theother inmates stirred up,
whatever's going on flooding.
You know how it is.
You guys were saying before andyou know they'll tell you on
the phone, we'll take care of it.
I and they'll tell you on thephone.
We'll take care of it.
I don't have all the tools hereto take care of it.
That's why I have a supervisor.
(09:30):
But you have those supervisorswho have moved into a position
and they're not comfortable withwhat their role is and they're
not willing to step up when it'stime.
And that's what I mean by asupervisor or a leader that's
willing.
It also means a supervisor orleader that is willing to step
(09:51):
in front.
You know one of the things thatI didn't know I was going to be
, but it turned out to be alarge part of my career as a
lieutenant and as a captain.
I was a shield for my officers.
I deflected a lot of stuff, andthat's not just from inmates.
I also deflected a lot of stufffrom an administration who was
(10:13):
unreasonable or that was somicromanaging that they didn't
allow mistakes.
And so is that lieutenant.
Is that supervisor, is thatleader willing to step up and be
a shield for their staff?
That means so much.
Staff recognize that quickly,whether or not it's there or
(10:36):
whether it's not there, theperson who and I've had these
supervisors when the shit hitsthe fan or something kicks off,
you turn around and look and allof a sudden they're gone,
they're out the door, they'reback in the office.
That is not what people wantout of a supervisor.
If you're not willing to bepart of the solution, if you're
(10:56):
not willing to step up when it'stime, and if you're not willing
to be the shield for yourofficers, you probably ought to
go find another place to be,because you're in the wrong job.
So the second one is first, isknowledgeable?
And second is are they willing?
And the third thing that I'vedecided now this is all me, but
(11:18):
the third thing I've decided isdo I have a leader or a
supervisor who has the courageto act, the knowledge to act,
the willingness to act, and thenthe courage to act?
And one of the questions I getis isn't willing to act and
courage to act the same thing?
And no, it's not.
I know people who have come intothis job.
(11:38):
They've taken an oath to dothis job, but when it comes time
to act, they're hesitant.
They don't have it within themto step forward.
They don't have it within themto charge forward towards the
gunfire, not literally, butfiguratively.
(12:00):
They don't have the couragefiguratively, they don't have
the courage to stand up whenit's time to be a shield for
your people.
So when I look at willingnessand when I look at courage, they
are two different things.
They may be willing to do it.
They may have trained theirwhole life and I have seen it.
I have seen people who youthought were going to be the
(12:21):
person who jumped in there andsolve this problem, but when the
shit hits the fan, when pushcomes to shove, they don't have
what it takes, and there'snothing more disappointing.
So when people ask me whatofficers want out of their
supervisors, what do they wantout of their leaders, that's my
answer.
We're looking for someone whohas the knowledge to act.
(12:44):
We're looking for someone whohas a willingness to act.
And then finally and you maynot find this out until you're
put in that situation I'mlooking for someone who has the
courage to act.
So that's where I believe mostcorrectional staff are looking
to their supervisors for so as asupervisor, are looking to
those supervisors for so as asupervisor, take a little
(13:05):
inventory, go, step in front ofthe mirror, take a little
self-assessment.
Do you fit those categories?
Are you ready?
Have you trained, have youstudied?
Are you knowledgeable?
Are you willing?
And the only thing with courageis you can.
You won't know courage untilit's time.
(13:29):
But when it comes time, acourageous man steps up, even
when they're scared.
So are you willing to do that?
Can you do that?
And that's something to thinkabout.
So I guess the next thing Iwant to talk about is what makes
a good leader, and there's allkinds of lists, there's all
(13:50):
kinds of articles, there's a lotof people have a lot of
thoughts on this, but I'm goingto.
I'm going to give you a few ofwhat I think make a good leader.
And I think first is goodleaders always have a vision
bigger than themselves.
So what do I mean by that?
Vision is what people grab holdof.
(14:14):
Right, when you're a leader,you have to put out a vision of
what your expectations are, ofwhat that institution looks like
when it's running good, of whatan officer a good officer looks
like, sounds like, acts like.
And then, once you've got thatvision, now you have to bring it
(14:35):
to the people around you.
You have to influence them in away so that they can see that
vision.
You know, and one of the biggestparts of vision, in my opinion,
is expectations.
If you don't have highexpectations, you're not going
to have anybody reach for thepinnacle of what that job is If
(14:58):
you have low expectations.
People and humans are naturallylazy, and correctional officers
aren't any different.
If you have super lowexpectations, you're going to
get super low results, exceptfor maybe the single person here
or there who has their ownself-confidence and have
assessed themselves and they'redoing it for a greater purpose.
(15:19):
But generally you're going toget low results if you have low
expectations, and having avision comes before having
expectations.
You have to understand and knowwhat.
The perfect workplace and Itake that with a grain of salt
when I say perfect.
But what's in your mind?
What do you want to see?
(15:39):
And this doesn't just go forstaff.
I had expectations for myinmates in my housing unit on my
work detail, whatever.
The inmates in my housing unitknew what Cantrell expected and
things would change when shiftschanged.
Have you guys seen that?
Absolutely you have.
(15:59):
You've got the lazy officer onone shift who lets them get away
with everything.
They know Cantrell's coming inat four o'clock, at 3.30,
they're cleaning up because theyknow I'm going to start
grabbing stuff and taking it.
And then you've got a differentofficer on midnights who has
different expectations and atthe end of my shift.
They're trying to adjust forthis new guy coming in, whatever
(16:22):
his expectations or lack ofexpectations are.
But I saw that with my own eyes.
My expectations set the levelof work, how my housing unit
looked, how my inmates behaved.
Your expectations meaneverything.
But before you haveexpectations you have to have a
(16:44):
vision, because if you can't seeit, you're never going to
vision, because if you can't seeit, you're never going to get
anybody else to see it.
So I hope that makes sense.
I think the second thing, Ithink the next thing I'm going
to talk about with good leaders,and it has a lot to do with how
they treat others.
And when I say others, that's awide swath.
I'm not just talking abouttheir direct subordinates, I'm
(17:10):
talking about how do you treateverybody.
How do you treat the officerthat works for you?
How do you treat the supervisorwho works above you?
How do you treat youradministration?
How do you treat the grandma inthe visiting room?
How do you treat the inmate inthe housing unit?
Treat the grandma in thevisiting room?
How do you treat the inmate inthe housing unit?
You can't be a different personevery day and expect people to
(17:33):
follow you.
They need to know who they'refollowing and how you treat
people is probably one of thebiggest clues to what's inside a
person.
Right?
Nobody wants to follow somebodythat they don't like.
Nobody wants to follow somebodythat is mean or vengeful or
(17:54):
vindictive.
And if they do want to followsomeone like that, we need to
take a look at the follower also.
But people will usually rise tothe occasion when they see
someone who treats others right,when they see someone who has a
positive attitude, when theysee someone who goes into work
(18:15):
to fix things, to make thingsbetter.
Right, we all want to getbehind that person.
I want to know that person, Iwant to work for that person, I
want to be influenced by thatperson, I want to be mentored by
that person and, as asupervisor, once people see how
(18:35):
you treat others right, oncethey see how you treat others,
that will dictate how they treatothers.
Once again, it's you know.
All of this is culture.
You want to set culture.
It starts with you.
You don't like the culturewhere you're at.
(18:55):
Look in the mirror.
We are I guess I should say weare all an example, whether
we're a bad example or a goodexample.
That's the difference.
So how you treat others matters.
You have a problem withrecruitment.
(19:16):
You have a problem withretention.
Look at how you treat others.
Look at how your othersupervisors treat others.
Look at how your othersupervisors treat others.
Look at how your administrationtreats others.
When someone comes to you totalk or have a question, do you
actually listen?
Do you look up from thecomputer?
Are you hearing what they'resaying?
(19:38):
People know if you're blowingthem off.
And if you're blowing them off,why would you expect them to
care too much about what youhave to say?
You don't care what they haveto say.
Something to think about.
I think good leaders share theworkload.
Now, some leaders take this toofar.
(20:02):
Some don't take it far enough.
But sharing the workloaddoesn't mean that you have to go
do what the officers are doing.
They don't expect that.
Matter of fact, I had a warden,and I forget if it was once a
week or once a month, butwhenever it was, he would go
work a day in the segregationunit with the officers, and this
(20:27):
was his way of showing you knowthat he was part of it, that
that he cared, that heunderstood and that he worked as
hard as they did.
But what he did was number one.
He didn't know his job becausehe didn't work down there.
He made life harder.
Everybody was on edge becausehe wasn't down there as another
(20:51):
officer or another supervisor.
He was down there as anadministrator.
The inmates had direct accessto the administrator throughout
the day, which isn't.
It isn't conducive to the wayour communication system works.
I'm not saying they shouldn'tbe able to talk to them, but
they shouldn't be able to talkto them in the same manner as
(21:12):
they do an officer.
They should have to take theirissues through the channels.
I believe that I believe in achain of command.
Now, not everybody believes ina chain of command.
I do talk to some millennialsthese days.
I did a little article thattalked about a millennial I
talked to who said that shebelieved in a horizontal chain
(21:33):
of command.
Even though she didn't reallyunderstand what that meant.
She thought she should be ableto talk to anybody in the
institution about anything,unless you've given your
supervisor the chance to fix theproblem and their supervisor
the chance to fix the problem.
It's not fair to the people youwork with.
That's why I believe in a chainof command.
(21:53):
And that warden would go downthere and work seg unit.
He was going directly past thechain of command.
He was going over people and Ididn't enjoy it.
I know the officers who workedthere didn't enjoy it.
We didn't look forward to it.
Matter of fact, after a whileyou would see Sickleaf go up on
the days that he was scheduledto go down there and work,
because nobody wanted to be apart of that circus.
(22:17):
When I say share the workload,that's not what I'm talking
about.
They want to know that you'reputting in the work, but they
want to know that you're puttingin the work.
But they want to know thatyou're putting in your work,
your part of the workload, thatyou're trying to do what a
supervisor or an administratorshould be doing to make their
(22:37):
job safe and what they doeffective, to provide them with
the tools that they need.
That's what they're looking for.
When I say share the workload,they want to know that you're up
there supporting them at thesame level.
That they're down here.
Working Doesn't mean we wantyou working with us, so don't
(22:58):
take that wrong.
But whatever your job is, do itto the best of your ability and
do it to make the institutionbetter.
Do it to make your job easierfor those below you, and if you
do that, you can't lose Leaders.
Don't let discouragement becomethe culture, and in corrections
(23:23):
that's easy to do.
It's easy to get discouraged.
It's hard to see what we do,whether or not it's effective.
It's hard to see whether or notthe job we do actually changes
something.
So it's easy to get discouraged.
And good leaders or greatleaders, don't let that
(23:44):
discouragement grow.
They have to be the people whocome in and find a reason, not
only for themselves, whicheverybody should do, but to find
a reason for everybody else inthe institution also.
Why are we here?
What is the job we do?
Why is it important?
You know I had Dave Grossman onpodcast a few episodes back and
(24:09):
and he talked about, um, thefact that we're sheepdogs.
You know we watch the flock andwe we protect the flock.
You only see that when thewolves show up, right, that's
the only time you know that thesheepdogs there and that he's
working is when the wolves showup.
But the fact that the flock issafe is a sign of that it's
(24:32):
working.
That's something that we missin corrections quite a bit.
If you went home tonight anddidn't see crime on the streets
and didn't see anybody gettingcarjacked or robbed or mugged or
whatever.
What you're doing works.
What you're doing is keeping asystem strong, our justice
(24:55):
system, and that's whatcorrections is.
Whether you're in a jail,whether you're in a detention
center or whether you're in aprison, we are part of that
justice system.
You're in a prison, we are partof that justice system.
The judges, the law enforcement, they do their part and after
that it's time for us to do ourpart, and it's an integral part
of that system.
(25:15):
If we don't do it and we don'tdo it well, it falls apart.
And right now we have a lot ofthings to work on.
If you look at the news and youknow normally I say the media
doesn't give us a fair shake andI don't know that they are on
all the articles that are comingout.
But this, the simple number ofarticles of inappropriate use of
(25:38):
force, inappropriate sexualcontact, people bringing, you
know, contraband inside Gangmembers pretending to be
civilians to get jobs so thatthey can take stuff inside the
other gang member, peopleselling their soul for $5,000 or
$10,000 to bring a lunchboxfull of cell phones in it's
(26:08):
something I can't imagine, butit's going on, and it's going on
at a level that is more thanI've seen.
So how do we keep from gettingdiscouraged and how do you keep
others from getting discouraged?
Number one you walk in with asmile on your face.
Number two you have readyreasons for them to be there.
You make their job good.
You help them out.
(26:29):
You make them feel productive.
Nothing discourages a personmore than going to work and not
feeling productive.
So how do we make our officersproductive?
You give them the tools.
You support them when it's time.
Training Training is a hugerecruitment and retention.
(26:50):
It's huge for that.
If your officers feel like theyknow what they're supposed to
do, if they feel trained in casesomething happens, they're
going to stay longer becausethey're going to feel
comfortable.
They're going to feelknowledgeable in their job.
They're going to feel safe, andI don't always mean physically
safe.
(27:10):
Sometimes you don't feel safelegally.
Liability we walk around with ahuge amount of liability over
our heads.
Some of it's caused, some ofit's just part of the job caused
, some of it's just part of thejob.
Can someone die in their cellwithout any bad actors involved?
(27:31):
Absolutely, we have it all thetime.
Are you going to beinvestigated?
Are people going to look atevery tiny thing that you did
for the two weeks before that.
Absolutely, I've seen it happen.
It doesn't mean there was anyintent, but death by natural
causes inside a prison still getan investigation and
(27:54):
everything's looked at.
And I don't know any job wherethe person working there wants
every ounce of what they dostudied, investigated, looked at
.
I don't care if you change oiland cars for a living.
Would you like somebody to comein there and see if you did it
(28:14):
precisely right every time?
So that's what we live with.
It's not only the safety ofphysical, but sometimes it's the
safety from liability, thesafety provided by the agency
for us to do what we do.
And I think the final one thatI'll talk about you know what
makes good leaders, and noteverybody's going to agree with
(28:36):
me on this, but I think it'snecessary.
It's been necessary in mycareer and that's humor.
When you have someone who hasno humor and does not know how
to laugh and I don't always meandark humor we do that.
That's part of what we do.
It's how we deal with somestuff.
But you've got to find thehappiness in life.
(28:59):
You've got to find the humor inlife.
I don't mean making fun of otherpeople.
I don't mean beinginappropriate, I just mean
enjoying life, enjoying thepeople you work with, enjoying
the job you do.
Sometimes that takes a while,but I do know that every day I
(29:19):
get on Facebook and I runthrough the deals and I almost
every day run across a retireeand they'll say something about
been retired five years.
Don't miss the place, but Imiss the people, and that's
absolutely the truth.
We do.
We do miss the people and whenI think back I don't remember
the bad.
(29:39):
I remember the jokes.
I remember the, the kiddingeach other.
I remember the fun.
I remember the good times.
That's what you're going toremember.
So I think, as a leader, youhave to have that humor.
I think humor does so much.
We talked about discouragement.
Humor does so much to preventdiscouragement.
(30:01):
Now, I don't think anybodywants their warden walking
through telling dad jokes allthe time.
But you've got to have somehumor, you've got to be able to
smile.
You've got to be able to enjoythings in order to be a good
leader, and sometimes thatenjoyment might be people
friends on the outside, familyon the outside.
(30:24):
Do people enjoy being aroundyou, not just at work.
Family on the outside?
Do people enjoy being aroundyou, not just at work?
Do you have friends that aremaybe not in the profession
outside of work?
That's a plus, it absolutely is.
Do your family enjoy having youat home?
Have you asked them?
Sometimes we're a bear, we comehome and we are a bear to live
(30:45):
with.
Sometimes we're a bear, we comehome and we are a bear to live
with.
So keep that humor.
Learn to enjoy life.
I think that's infectious.
I think it's something that allthe officers grab hold of too.
All the supervisors grab holdtoo.
So, anyway, that's my opinion.
(31:09):
That's my podcast for this week.
I hope all of you have a greatweek.
I hope you stay safe inside.
Look out for each other.
If you see someone who seemslike they're a little off this
week, walk by and say hey, how,hey, how you doing, are you
feeling okay?
And then stop a minute andlisten.
(31:31):
That's the number one thing youcan do for each other.
Inside that prison, inside thatjail, wherever it is, you work.
I hope you guys have a greatday.
Be safe out there, hey.
Before we go, I'd like to takea minute to thank one of our
sponsors.
Omni real-time locating systemis a company I've been working
closely with for years.
I'm proud to be a part of thisinnovative team that's developed
(31:53):
the best real-time locatingsystem on the market today for
your jail or prison.
Omni's PREA-compliant real-timemonitoring technology is the
very best way to track andrecord your inmates' locations,
their movements, theirinteractions, throughout every
square inch of your correctionalfacility.
Imagine getting an alarm thesecond an escape happens, or an
(32:16):
alert that lets you know when aninmate's heart rate drops below
a set level.
To learn more about Omni, go towwwomnirtlscom.
That's omnirtlscom.
That's omnirtlscom.
Or you can click on today'sshow notes to get in the
information guide.
Omni Real-Time Locating Systemis a powerful tool specifically
(32:37):
designed for the moderncorrectional professional.
If you haven't done so, pleasetake a moment to like my podcast
or, better yet, hit thesubscribe button so that you'll
be notified when the nextepisode comes out.
Thanks for listening and let'sbe safe out there.
Hey guys, before I get to our first guest, I just
want to take a moment today andthank Pepperball.
You know they've been a sponsorof the Prison Officer Podcast
for more than three years andwithout their sponsorship I
wouldn't be able to bring thiscontent to you.
We wouldn't be able to havethese great conversations with
these leaders and trainers incorrections.
You know I used Pepperball formore than 20 years when I was
(00:24):
working in the institution.
It was something I believed in,so it was easy for me when I
got the chance to become amaster instructor for Pepperball
.
I get to go out and train lawenforcement and corrections and
I get to see you guys in thefield, so I really appreciate
that.
The great thing aboutPepperball is it gives the
officers the confidence to havea tool that they can use that
(00:46):
they know is going to work.
If you would reach out toPepperball wwwpepperballcom and
thank them for sponsoring thePrison Officer Podcast and,
while you're there, see all thenew things that are part of the
Pepperball family, hello andwelcome back to the Prison
Officer Podcast.
My name is Mike Cantrell.
Today we're going to talk aboutleadership.
(01:08):
We're going to talk about whatcorrectional officers want from
their leaders and we're going totalk about what good
correctional leaders do.
Before we step off into that, Ijust want to catch you up on a
couple of things.
One if you'll look behind me,you'll see my book, my latest
book, power Skills, which isemotional intelligence for
correctional officers anddetention officers and those in
(01:29):
the public service profession.
I just want to thank everybody.
You guys have sales, have donegreat.
I appreciate the outpouring ofsupport that I've had for that
book.
I'm very proud of it.
I'm very happy with it.
I do think it's a book that isnecessary for corrections.
If you are a training officer,if you run an academy, feel free
to reach out to me because Iwould like to see everybody
(01:54):
coming in, get the copy of thatbook so I can talk to you about
some bulk pricing and stuff.
But that book breaks down acouple of the things that we
really have challenges withright now in corrections.
One of those is the ability tocommunicate.
Some of our newer officers have.
They struggle a lot with justbeing able to walk up to a
person, any person, and start aconversation and, as you all
(02:16):
know, in corrections that's ahuge part of what we do being
able to communicate instantlyand effectively with people.
So that's part of the book, andthe other part of it goes into
social skills.
You know, some of those skillsthat are missing from the newer
generation.
I'm not saying there's anythingwrong.
I'm just saying that, you know,focus isn't where it used to be
and we're a lot more tied intowhether it be internet or
(02:39):
whether it be phones or thedigital age as a whole, and so
it talks about some of thesocial skills.
I truly believe that readingthat book gives you power skills
when it comes to being acorrectional officer.
So I just wanted to thankeverybody for that.
If you'll also look over there,you'll see.
(03:00):
While I've been off for a littlebit, I'll talk about that.
I had a chance.
I've had a couple of booksfloating around in my head for a
while, and they are children'sbooks.
The one behind me is called howdo rainbows grow?
And uh, my son asked me when hewas about three, 20, oh shoot,
maybe 30 years ago.
But uh, he asked me and he saiddaddy, how do rainbows grow?
(03:23):
And I sat down and wrote alittle poem about it, and I've
been looking for a while for away to illustrate it, and so,
with some of the time off I'vehad.
Recently I got to take the timeand I have put out three
children's books.
So if you'd like to, if youhave children, if you'd like to
check those out, probably theeasiest way I mean, you can look
(03:47):
them up on Amazon, and it is.
How Do Rainbows Grow is one ofthem, sky School is another one
and Grandma's Cloud Parade isthe other one.
The easier way to find it mightbe to go to my writing page and
that is Cantrell Writes all oneword, cantrellwritescom, and
and you can go there and you cansee all my books.
But uh, I do appreciate thesupport I've had and I'm even.
(04:10):
We'll get these children'sbooks out.
I'm going to have a launch herein a couple of weeks and so be
looking for that Also.
The reason I had a little bit oftime off is because I have been
sitting around at the house alot more.
I recently had a shouldersurgery, had a replacement, so
had a little bit of downtime.
So I've spent some time herecatching up on books and
(04:31):
articles and things.
I've been writing a couple ofclasses and I just want to let
you guys know how important itis for you to take care of
yourself because, although theywon't actually say you know,
this was when your shoulder gothurt.
I know when I started havingtrouble with it, and it was
after a use of force back in2011.
And I've had trouble with itever since, ended up taking some
(04:54):
shots.
It's finally developed to thepoint that they had to go in
there and replace it, and Iattribute that to how hard this
job is on our body.
So I encourage all of you tonot only take care of yourself
physically, but to understandthat when you have a use of
force, de-escalation is the wayto go.
Going through that door, there'sonly two things you get.
(05:15):
One is the chance for liabilityYou've heard me say this before
and the other one's the chancefor injury.
So here I am, however, manyyears later, with an injury that
haunts me even after I'm doneand retired.
So, uh, but I'm doing well,everything feels good, I really
appreciate my doctors.
They did a great job and Iexpect a full recovery.
So what else?
(05:36):
Uh, command presence Uh, we'vebeen.
I've been putting off doingsome classes, but it's going to
get really busy here in a littlebit.
So if you would go tocommandpresencenet, check out
the website there.
You know we started developingthis year corrections specific
classes and I'm very proud ofthose.
We've given a bunch of them.
We just gave our firstcorrectional training officer
(05:58):
class with the coach train andevaluate method and that's
something that Command Prespresence has been doing on the
law enforcement side for a longtime.
We've developed that, made itspecific for corrections and so
we put out that first class.
It went wonderful.
I did it up in Michigan andthank you to all you guys that
attended.
We had a great time.
I learned a lot.
(06:19):
I'm sure they learned a lot andI appreciate it.
But we've got some classescoming up in September
Excellence in Corrections I'mgoing to be back in Michigan
teaching Excellence inCorrections.
October 1st through 4th I'mgoing to be in Branson teaching
a couple of classes and we'llhave the podcast down there at
the Missouri CorrectionalAssociation, missouri Probation
(06:39):
and Parole Officers AssociationConference down there in Branson
.
I've been there the last threeyears and taught there.
October I will go to New Mexicoand go to the Southwest public
safety and correctionsconference down there.
I just finalized that.
So I'll be speaking down thereand so if you're in the area,
come by and check us out.
(07:00):
November I'll be going back toMichigan again A lot of time in
Michigan, but I appreciate itand we're going to be doing a
report writing class up there.
I think it's Ottawa County, soget on the website, check that
out.
And then in January I'vealready got one scheduled for
New Mexico and I'm going to bedown there teaching excellence
for corrections.
So get on the command presencewebsite, check out those
(07:21):
upcoming classes.
I'd love to see you there.
Let me know where you heardabout it, because it's so
interesting and fun.
When I get into class andpeople go hey, I heard about
this and I listened to yourpodcast and you know that feels
good.
It truly does.
I'm glad there's people outthere that that gets so much out
of this podcast.
So I think that's about it,just catching everything up.
(07:44):
So one of the questions I getasked often is what do
correctional officers want froma leader?
Usually in class and we'll goover some of this you know you
go to a leadership class andthey say you know what was the
quality, the best quality, ofyour favorite leader?
But when I talk about whatcorrectional officers want from
(08:06):
a leader, I've kind of narrowedit down to three things.
Okay, the first onecorrectional officers want
supervisors or leaders that areknowledgeable, that are
knowledgeable about their job,that are knowledgeable about
policy, that are knowledgeableabout case law, that are
knowledgeable about their shift,that are knowledgeable about
(08:27):
case law, that are knowledgeableabout their shift and who works
on their shift.
Okay, that's what they'relooking for.
They're looking for that personwith the knowledge to take them
down the road safely, avoidingliability, avoiding injury.
That's one of the first thingswe look for.
The second thing that we lookfor is a supervisor or a leader
(08:48):
who is willing.
Okay, now, what does that mean?
That they're willing?
Well, willing means that andI've had this happen where I was
working a seg unit I've got oneof them inmates.
You know he's on the door, bam,bam, bam, and it's all night,
it's two hours, three hours,whatever.
And you call down theLieutenant's office and you're
like Lieutenant, I've got thisguy, he's.
(09:08):
He's hitting his head againstthe wall, he's kicking the door,
he's making noise, he's got theother inmates stirred up,
whatever's going on flooding.
You know how it is.
You guys were saying before andyou know they'll tell you on
the phone, we'll take care of it.
I and they'll tell you on thephone.
We'll take care of it.
I don't have all the tools hereto take care of it.
That's why I have a supervisor.
(09:30):
But you have those supervisorswho have moved into a position
and they're not comfortable withwhat their role is and they're
not willing to step up when it'stime.
And that's what I mean by asupervisor or a leader that's
willing.
It also means a supervisor orleader that is willing to step
(09:51):
in front.
You know one of the things thatI didn't know I was going to be
, but it turned out to be alarge part of my career as a
lieutenant and as a captain.
I was a shield for my officers.
I deflected a lot of stuff, andthat's not just from inmates.
I also deflected a lot of stufffrom an administration who was
(10:13):
unreasonable or that was somicromanaging that they didn't
allow mistakes.
And so is that lieutenant.
Is that supervisor, is thatleader willing to step up and be
a shield for their staff?
That means so much.
Staff recognize that quickly,whether or not it's there or
(10:36):
whether it's not there, theperson who and I've had these
supervisors when the shit hitsthe fan or something kicks off,
you turn around and look and allof a sudden they're gone,
they're out the door, they'reback in the office.
That is not what people wantout of a supervisor.
If you're not willing to bepart of the solution, if you're
(10:56):
not willing to step up when it'stime, and if you're not willing
to be the shield for yourofficers, you probably ought to
go find another place to be,because you're in the wrong job.
So the second one is first, isknowledgeable?
And second is are they willing?
And the third thing that I'vedecided now this is all me, but
(11:18):
the third thing I've decided isdo I have a leader or a
supervisor who has the courageto act, the knowledge to act,
the willingness to act, and thenthe courage to act?
And one of the questions I getis isn't willing to act and
courage to act the same thing?
And no, it's not.
I know people who have come intothis job.
(11:38):
They've taken an oath to dothis job, but when it comes time
to act, they're hesitant.
They don't have it within themto step forward.
They don't have it within themto charge forward towards the
gunfire, not literally, butfiguratively.
(12:00):
They don't have the couragefiguratively, they don't have
the courage to stand up whenit's time to be a shield for
your people.
So when I look at willingnessand when I look at courage, they
are two different things.
They may be willing to do it.
They may have trained theirwhole life and I have seen it.
I have seen people who youthought were going to be the
(12:21):
person who jumped in there andsolve this problem, but when the
shit hits the fan, when pushcomes to shove, they don't have
what it takes, and there'snothing more disappointing.
So when people ask me whatofficers want out of their
supervisors, what do they wantout of their leaders, that's my
answer.
We're looking for someone whohas the knowledge to act.
(12:44):
We're looking for someone whohas a willingness to act.
And then finally and you maynot find this out until you're
put in that situation I'mlooking for someone who has the
courage to act.
So that's where I believe mostcorrectional staff are looking
to their supervisors for so as asupervisor, are looking to
those supervisors for so as asupervisor, take a little
(13:05):
inventory, go, step in front ofthe mirror, take a little
self-assessment.
Do you fit those categories?
Are you ready?
Have you trained, have youstudied?
Are you knowledgeable?
Are you willing?
And the only thing with courageis you can.
You won't know courage untilit's time.
(13:29):
But when it comes time, acourageous man steps up, even
when they're scared.
So are you willing to do that?
Can you do that?
And that's something to thinkabout.
So I guess the next thing Iwant to talk about is what makes
a good leader, and there's allkinds of lists, there's all
(13:50):
kinds of articles, there's a lotof people have a lot of
thoughts on this, but I'm goingto.
I'm going to give you a few ofwhat I think make a good leader.
And I think first is goodleaders always have a vision
bigger than themselves.
So what do I mean by that?
Vision is what people grab holdof.
(14:14):
Right, when you're a leader,you have to put out a vision of
what your expectations are, ofwhat that institution looks like
when it's running good, of whatan officer a good officer looks
like, sounds like, acts like.
And then, once you've got thatvision, now you have to bring it
(14:35):
to the people around you.
You have to influence them in away so that they can see that
vision.
You know, and one of the biggestparts of vision, in my opinion,
is expectations.
If you don't have highexpectations, you're not going
to have anybody reach for thepinnacle of what that job is If
(14:58):
you have low expectations.
People and humans are naturallylazy, and correctional officers
aren't any different.
If you have super lowexpectations, you're going to
get super low results, exceptfor maybe the single person here
or there who has their ownself-confidence and have
assessed themselves and they'redoing it for a greater purpose.
(15:19):
But generally you're going toget low results if you have low
expectations, and having avision comes before having
expectations.
You have to understand and knowwhat.
The perfect workplace and Itake that with a grain of salt
when I say perfect.
But what's in your mind?
What do you want to see?
(15:39):
And this doesn't just go forstaff.
I had expectations for myinmates in my housing unit on my
work detail, whatever.
The inmates in my housing unitknew what Cantrell expected and
things would change when shiftschanged.
Have you guys seen that?
Absolutely you have.
(15:59):
You've got the lazy officer onone shift who lets them get away
with everything.
They know Cantrell's coming inat four o'clock, at 3.30,
they're cleaning up because theyknow I'm going to start
grabbing stuff and taking it.
And then you've got a differentofficer on midnights who has
different expectations and atthe end of my shift.
They're trying to adjust forthis new guy coming in, whatever
(16:22):
his expectations or lack ofexpectations are.
But I saw that with my own eyes.
My expectations set the levelof work, how my housing unit
looked, how my inmates behaved.
Your expectations meaneverything.
But before you haveexpectations you have to have a
(16:44):
vision, because if you can't seeit, you're never going to
vision, because if you can't seeit, you're never going to get
anybody else to see it.
So I hope that makes sense.
I think the second thing, Ithink the next thing I'm going
to talk about with good leaders,and it has a lot to do with how
they treat others.
And when I say others, that's awide swath.
I'm not just talking abouttheir direct subordinates, I'm
(17:10):
talking about how do you treateverybody.
How do you treat the officerthat works for you?
How do you treat the supervisorwho works above you?
How do you treat youradministration?
How do you treat the grandma inthe visiting room?
How do you treat the inmate inthe housing unit?
Treat the grandma in thevisiting room?
How do you treat the inmate inthe housing unit?
You can't be a different personevery day and expect people to
(17:33):
follow you.
They need to know who they'refollowing and how you treat
people is probably one of thebiggest clues to what's inside a
person.
Right?
Nobody wants to follow somebodythat they don't like.
Nobody wants to follow somebodythat is mean or vengeful or
(17:54):
vindictive.
And if they do want to followsomeone like that, we need to
take a look at the follower also.
But people will usually rise tothe occasion when they see
someone who treats others right,when they see someone who has a
positive attitude, when theysee someone who goes into work
(18:15):
to fix things, to make thingsbetter.
Right, we all want to getbehind that person.
I want to know that person, Iwant to work for that person, I
want to be influenced by thatperson, I want to be mentored by
that person and, as asupervisor, once people see how
(18:35):
you treat others right, oncethey see how you treat others,
that will dictate how they treatothers.
Once again, it's you know.
All of this is culture.
You want to set culture.
It starts with you.
You don't like the culturewhere you're at.
(18:55):
Look in the mirror.
We are I guess I should say weare all an example, whether
we're a bad example or a goodexample.
That's the difference.
So how you treat others matters.
You have a problem withrecruitment.
(19:16):
You have a problem withretention.
Look at how you treat others.
Look at how your othersupervisors treat others.
Look at how your othersupervisors treat others.
Look at how your administrationtreats others.
When someone comes to you totalk or have a question, do you
actually listen?
Do you look up from thecomputer?
Are you hearing what they'resaying?
(19:38):
People know if you're blowingthem off.
And if you're blowing them off,why would you expect them to
care too much about what youhave to say?
You don't care what they haveto say.
Something to think about.
I think good leaders share theworkload.
Now, some leaders take this toofar.
(20:02):
Some don't take it far enough.
But sharing the workloaddoesn't mean that you have to go
do what the officers are doing.
They don't expect that.
Matter of fact, I had a warden,and I forget if it was once a
week or once a month, butwhenever it was, he would go
work a day in the segregationunit with the officers, and this
(20:27):
was his way of showing you knowthat he was part of it, that
that he cared, that heunderstood and that he worked as
hard as they did.
But what he did was number one.
He didn't know his job becausehe didn't work down there.
He made life harder.
Everybody was on edge becausehe wasn't down there as another
(20:51):
officer or another supervisor.
He was down there as anadministrator.
The inmates had direct accessto the administrator throughout
the day, which isn't.
It isn't conducive to the wayour communication system works.
I'm not saying they shouldn'tbe able to talk to them, but
they shouldn't be able to talkto them in the same manner as
(21:12):
they do an officer.
They should have to take theirissues through the channels.
I believe that I believe in achain of command.
Now, not everybody believes ina chain of command.
I do talk to some millennialsthese days.
I did a little article thattalked about a millennial I
talked to who said that shebelieved in a horizontal chain
(21:33):
of command.
Even though she didn't reallyunderstand what that meant.
She thought she should be ableto talk to anybody in the
institution about anything,unless you've given your
supervisor the chance to fix theproblem and their supervisor
the chance to fix the problem.
It's not fair to the people youwork with.
That's why I believe in a chainof command.
(21:53):
And that warden would go downthere and work seg unit.
He was going directly past thechain of command.
He was going over people and Ididn't enjoy it.
I know the officers who workedthere didn't enjoy it.
We didn't look forward to it.
Matter of fact, after a whileyou would see Sickleaf go up on
the days that he was scheduledto go down there and work,
because nobody wanted to be apart of that circus.
(22:17):
When I say share the workload,that's not what I'm talking
about.
They want to know that you'reputting in the work, but they
want to know that you're puttingin the work.
But they want to know thatyou're putting in your work,
your part of the workload, thatyou're trying to do what a
supervisor or an administratorshould be doing to make their
(22:37):
job safe and what they doeffective, to provide them with
the tools that they need.
That's what they're looking for.
When I say share the workload,they want to know that you're up
there supporting them at thesame level.
That they're down here.
Working Doesn't mean we wantyou working with us, so don't
(22:58):
take that wrong.
But whatever your job is, do itto the best of your ability and
do it to make the institutionbetter.
Do it to make your job easierfor those below you, and if you
do that, you can't lose Leaders.
Don't let discouragement becomethe culture, and in corrections
(23:23):
that's easy to do.
It's easy to get discouraged.
It's hard to see what we do,whether or not it's effective.
It's hard to see whether or notthe job we do actually changes
something.
So it's easy to get discouraged.
And good leaders or greatleaders, don't let that
(23:44):
discouragement grow.
They have to be the people whocome in and find a reason, not
only for themselves, whicheverybody should do, but to find
a reason for everybody else inthe institution also.
Why are we here?
What is the job we do?
Why is it important?
You know I had Dave Grossman onpodcast a few episodes back and
(24:09):
and he talked about, um, thefact that we're sheepdogs.
You know we watch the flock andwe we protect the flock.
You only see that when thewolves show up, right, that's
the only time you know that thesheepdogs there and that he's
working is when the wolves showup.
But the fact that the flock issafe is a sign of that it's
(24:32):
working.
That's something that we missin corrections quite a bit.
If you went home tonight anddidn't see crime on the streets
and didn't see anybody gettingcarjacked or robbed or mugged or
whatever.
What you're doing works.
What you're doing is keeping asystem strong, our justice
(24:55):
system, and that's whatcorrections is.
Whether you're in a jail,whether you're in a detention
center or whether you're in aprison, we are part of that
justice system.
You're in a prison, we are partof that justice system.
The judges, the law enforcement, they do their part and after
that it's time for us to do ourpart, and it's an integral part
of that system.
(25:15):
If we don't do it and we don'tdo it well, it falls apart.
And right now we have a lot ofthings to work on.
If you look at the news and youknow normally I say the media
doesn't give us a fair shake andI don't know that they are on
all the articles that are comingout.
But this, the simple number ofarticles of inappropriate use of
(25:38):
force, inappropriate sexualcontact, people bringing, you
know, contraband inside Gangmembers pretending to be
civilians to get jobs so thatthey can take stuff inside the
other gang member, peopleselling their soul for $5,000 or
$10,000 to bring a lunchboxfull of cell phones in it's
(26:08):
something I can't imagine, butit's going on, and it's going on
at a level that is more thanI've seen.
So how do we keep from gettingdiscouraged and how do you keep
others from getting discouraged?
Number one you walk in with asmile on your face.
Number two you have readyreasons for them to be there.
You make their job good.
You help them out.
(26:29):
You make them feel productive.
Nothing discourages a personmore than going to work and not
feeling productive.
So how do we make our officersproductive?
You give them the tools.
You support them when it's time.
Training Training is a hugerecruitment and retention.
(26:50):
It's huge for that.
If your officers feel like theyknow what they're supposed to
do, if they feel trained in casesomething happens, they're
going to stay longer becausethey're going to feel
comfortable.
They're going to feelknowledgeable in their job.
They're going to feel safe, andI don't always mean physically
safe.
(27:10):
Sometimes you don't feel safelegally.
Liability we walk around with ahuge amount of liability over
our heads.
Some of it's caused, some ofit's just part of the job caused
, some of it's just part of thejob.
Can someone die in their cellwithout any bad actors involved?
(27:31):
Absolutely, we have it all thetime.
Are you going to beinvestigated?
Are people going to look atevery tiny thing that you did
for the two weeks before that.
Absolutely, I've seen it happen.
It doesn't mean there was anyintent, but death by natural
causes inside a prison still getan investigation and
(27:54):
everything's looked at.
And I don't know any job wherethe person working there wants
every ounce of what they dostudied, investigated, looked at
.
I don't care if you change oiland cars for a living.
Would you like somebody to comein there and see if you did it
(28:14):
precisely right every time?
So that's what we live with.
It's not only the safety ofphysical, but sometimes it's the
safety from liability, thesafety provided by the agency
for us to do what we do.
And I think the final one thatI'll talk about you know what
makes good leaders, and noteverybody's going to agree with
(28:36):
me on this, but I think it'snecessary.
It's been necessary in mycareer and that's humor.
When you have someone who hasno humor and does not know how
to laugh and I don't always meandark humor we do that.
That's part of what we do.
It's how we deal with somestuff.
But you've got to find thehappiness in life.
(28:59):
You've got to find the humor inlife.
I don't mean making fun of otherpeople.
I don't mean beinginappropriate, I just mean
enjoying life, enjoying thepeople you work with, enjoying
the job you do.
Sometimes that takes a while,but I do know that every day I
(29:19):
get on Facebook and I runthrough the deals and I almost
every day run across a retireeand they'll say something about
been retired five years.
Don't miss the place, but Imiss the people, and that's
absolutely the truth.
We do.
We do miss the people and whenI think back I don't remember
the bad.
(29:39):
I remember the jokes.
I remember the, the kiddingeach other.
I remember the fun.
I remember the good times.
That's what you're going toremember.
So I think, as a leader, youhave to have that humor.
I think humor does so much.
We talked about discouragement.
Humor does so much to preventdiscouragement.
(30:01):
Now, I don't think anybodywants their warden walking
through telling dad jokes allthe time.
But you've got to have somehumor, you've got to be able to
smile.
You've got to be able to enjoythings in order to be a good
leader, and sometimes thatenjoyment might be people
friends on the outside, familyon the outside.
(30:24):
Do people enjoy being aroundyou, not just at work.
Family on the outside?
Do people enjoy being aroundyou, not just at work?
Do you have friends that aremaybe not in the profession
outside of work?
That's a plus, it absolutely is.
Do your family enjoy having youat home?
Have you asked them?
Sometimes we're a bear, we comehome and we are a bear to live
(30:45):
with.
Sometimes we're a bear, we comehome and we are a bear to live
with.
So keep that humor.
Learn to enjoy life.
I think that's infectious.
I think it's something that allthe officers grab hold of too.
All the supervisors grab holdtoo.
So, anyway, that's my opinion.
(31:09):
That's my podcast for this week.
I hope all of you have a greatweek.
I hope you stay safe inside.
Look out for each other.
If you see someone who seemslike they're a little off this
week, walk by and say hey, how,hey, how you doing, are you
feeling okay?
And then stop a minute andlisten.
(31:31):
That's the number one thing youcan do for each other.
Inside that prison, inside thatjail, wherever it is, you work.
I hope you guys have a greatday.
Be safe out there, hey.
Before we go, I'd like to takea minute to thank one of our
sponsors.
Omni real-time locating systemis a company I've been working
closely with for years.
I'm proud to be a part of thisinnovative team that's developed
(31:53):
the best real-time locatingsystem on the market today for
your jail or prison.
Omni's PREA-compliant real-timemonitoring technology is the
very best way to track andrecord your inmates' locations,
their movements, theirinteractions, throughout every
square inch of your correctionalfacility.
Imagine getting an alarm thesecond an escape happens, or an
(32:16):
alert that lets you know when aninmate's heart rate drops below
a set level.
To learn more about Omni, go towwwomnirtlscom.
That's omnirtlscom.
That's omnirtlscom.
Or you can click on today'sshow notes to get in the
information guide.
Omni Real-Time Locating Systemis a powerful tool specifically
(32:37):
designed for the moderncorrectional professional.
If you haven't done so, pleasetake a moment to like my podcast
or, better yet, hit thesubscribe button so that you'll
be notified when the nextepisode comes out.
Thanks for listening and let'sbe safe out there.
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