July 20, 2025 • 64 mins
This is a Re-Broadcast of ILEETA Live! Yyou can find more episodes here: / @ileeta
Two nationally recognized voices in corrections. One powerful conversation.
ILEETA Live is back July 16 at 7:30PM CST.
This month: Michael Cantrell and Gary York—both published authors and respected subject matter experts—join us to talk leadership, resilience, and the real-world challenges facing today’s correctional professionals.
Check out this episode and many more here: / @ileeta
Plus:
✅ Instructor Development segment
✅ ILEETA updates
✅ The debut of our brand-new Legal Update with Duane Wolfe
Set a reminder. Bring your team. You’ll want to hear this one.
#ILEETALive #TribeOfTrainers #CorrectionsLeadership #InstructorDevelopment #ILEETALegalUpdate
Contact us: mike@theprisonofficer.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ThePrisonOfficer
Take care of each other and Be Safe behind those walls and fences!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Good evening everybody.
How's everybody doing out therein Aelita world?
We are here in July already.
And wow, july.
How many days until the nextAelita conference, todd, you
know.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Oh, I have no idea, but this year seems to be flying
.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Let's go with 242 until ILETA 2026.
That seems so far off.
That's so close.
It will be here before you knowit.
You know what?
Christmas is almost here, goodgrief.
So we'll be here before youknow it.
You know what?
Christmas is almost here, goodgrief.
So myself and Todd Fletcherhere, and we're going to be
(01:11):
giving you another awesome.
I lead alive with two greatguests from the corrections
world.
We have correctionsrepresentatives from all over
the world and it's nice to get acouple of the well-known
correctional experts here and wewill talk about them here in
just a little bit.
Before we do that, we want togo with some Aelita news here
(01:36):
and we've got some new slideshere.
This episode of Aelita Live isbrought to you by correctional
news.
Go out there and check them out.
There's a QR code and this issomething brand new to I lead
alive.
We're getting some sponsors tohelp us out with these.
I lead a lives here, prettyexciting.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
You're going to go big time on us after this, I
think sponsors and ads and allthis stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
That's pretty cool Well we're excited for the kind
of partnership that CorrectionalNews has been doing here?
Yeah, it's awesome.
But hey, let's jump into somenews and updates.
What's going on in Alita herein July of 2025?
(02:25):
Well, the first thing we wantyou guys to do is check your
membership.
Is it current?
Do you need to renew it?
Check your profile have youretired?
Have you went to a differentdepartment, transferred lateral?
We just want you to jump inthere and check all your
(02:46):
information to make sure it'scurrent, and we know it's easy
to make your membership lapse alittle bit.
It's easy to fix that.
Just contact Jenny at the ILETAoffice.
Her number's right there, heremail is right there.
If you're having issues withrenewing your subscription or if
you're not a member, she's thego to person to join Aelita.
(03:11):
So leave that up there for justa little bit.
Make sure your contacts,everything is current up there.
Early bird registration Aelita2026.
It's hard to say 2026 when it'sstill 2025.
But it's open until October31st of 2025.
(03:35):
And it's $399.
That's an awesome deal.
So before October 31st, you canget that early bird special.
Go in there and register forthe Aelita 2026 conference.
Todd, when's the instructor?
Proposals due.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Let's go back a little bit.
Don't forget also that there'sa new multiple member bundle
option where, if you registerfive or more people, you get the
same $399 rate for theconference as you would if you
got everybody registered asearly birds.
So that's something new thisyear and something that I think
(04:21):
departments should be takingadvantage of Absolutely
departments should be takingadvantage of.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Absolutely Many departments send multiple
instructors.
Hey, take advantage of thatbenefit right there 100%.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
I mean, you think about that If you were to send
five people, it's basically buyfour, get one free right?
So that's a great deal.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Very good reminder there, Todd.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
And when you mention the instructor proposals, those
are due October 31st.
So, unless you're like BrianHill and some others that are
going to wait till like October30th, try to get those in early,
because we're apparentlyalready on track to exceed last
year's number of proposals forsetting another record.
(05:12):
And so there's two trains ofthought here do like Brian does
and wait till the last momentand really dump everything on on
Brian and Joe to get throughthose, you know, all last minute
, or we could help them out andgive them an opportunity to take
(05:35):
a look at some of these uhinstructor proposals a little
bit earlier.
So, uh, I don't know what areyou going to do, brian?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
The pressure is on.
The pressure is on, I think youI think that was a challenge
there, todd I think I'm going tohave to I'm looking at possibly
doing something a little bitdifferent this year.
So I've got I've got somebrainstorm written down on a, on
a legal pad, two pages of justideas that just possibly going
(06:06):
in a new direction, maybe someleadership type training is what
I'm looking at.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
So oh, very cool.
That's exciting, see, and I wasgoing to ask you if you're
going to give us a hint or ifyou're just going to kind of
leave it there and let it hang.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Well speaking of hints and I know you don't want
to let the cat out of the bag,but you're involved in some of
the most secret squirrel stuffaelita does.
What is that me?
Yes, you.
There's something at the aelitaconference that you're involved
in that is top secret.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
That's top secret, top secret.
I don't know of anything that'stop secret.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Nobody knows, until the night.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Oh, okay, but everybody knows about Emerson
Hour, or at least they should,even if you haven't come to the
Aelita Conference.
We mention Emerson Hour enoughto where people should know
about Emerson Hour, but the onlyreally thing that's top secret
about that is the who's invitedto speak and who the speakers
(07:09):
ultimately are.
That's my secret, all right.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
All right, One of the best.
I mean everything at Alita istop notch, but that's one of the
most go-to events thateverybody must attend, so I'm
kind of looking forward toseeing who your lineup is for
2026.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah, I've already got my hooks in a couple of
people and looking forward to it.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
But hey, while we're talking about we've kind of
teased some people about 2026conference.
Since Joe's not here, let'splay this little video that I
have about what's going on atthe Alita conference.
Hang on, let me just pull thisvideo up here for everybody.
Speaker 5 (08:06):
The fundamental philosophies and principles of
the organization have stayedconsistent since the start.
It's about the membership.
It's about us facilitatingtraining that's going to raise
the bar for the profession as awhole, facilitate that learning
and that growth for people inthe profession that are
interested in what can we do todo a better job, to prepare our
(08:27):
people for the complexities andthe challenges of the profession
that they're in.
We're an association that'scommitted to trainers and to
training that also happens torun a world-class conference.
Speaker 6 (08:50):
We have an entirely packed schedule over the course
of a week.
Every night at Aelita isdesigned to get trainers to
connect to each other and to theindustries that support
training and law enforcement.
Speaker 5 (08:59):
And the environment here at ED was very intentional
about creating this culture,where it's a culture of peers.
It should be on your bucketlist of things to come Once
you've been here.
Once then you'll understandwhat all the buzz is about.
Ileda is more than a conference.
It's not just sharing ofacademic theories.
It's practical application forthe research and that
(09:21):
information.
It's important to have aconnection with like-minded
people who are going through thesame struggles, have been
through the same struggles.
Knowing that you're not aloneand that you have people that
you can reach out to issomething that a lot of trainers
need.
Speaker 6 (09:40):
This conference will always be the cornerstone.
This conference will always bethe pilgrimage that trainers
take every year to find oneanother.
Speaker 5 (09:48):
So just that connection is a critical
component and an important pieceof being part of this community
of trainers, which is what itis.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
What a powerful video .
You did an amazing job on that.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
That is amazing.
Is that video available foreverybody, Todd.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Yeah, apparently we're going to to be available
for everybody.
That's going to be an amazingaddition.
That.
That's really cool.
They did a great job.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Or even to show that to your supervisor, your chief,
to hopefully help you get to theILETA conference in 2026.
Hopefully help you get to theAelita.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Conference in 2026.
Yeah, I mean, it shows theprofessionalism, the level of
commitment to the people thatmake this association, this
organization, what it is, and Ithink that that's a really good
representation of who we are.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Absolutely.
Hey, we have a new segment hereon Aelita Live and it's just a
short video, and one of ourfabulous members that's been
with Aelita, I think since theinception of Aelita Dwayne Wolfe
, and he's going to speak to usabout a legal update.
Let's hear what Dwayne has tosay here in his a legal update.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Let's hear what Dwayne has to say here in his.
In Barnes v Felix, the SupremeCourt reaffirms the totality of
circumstances standards ofGraham v Conner, rejecting the
Fifth Circuit's narrow moment ofthreat approach For law
enforcement trainers.
This isn't a shift.
It's a signal to double down onscenario-based training,
documentation, practices andpolicy language that reflects
(11:46):
the whole picture, not just thesplit-second decision.
Hello ILEDA members, I'm DuaneWolfe.
I just wanted to give you aheads up about something new
that's going to be coming outshortly.
Ileda has asked me to host aquarterly legal update and I'm
really looking forward to theopportunity.
The objective is to sit down,take a look at the current case
law, any changes that occurredrecently, to get that
(12:09):
information out to you for youto better understand how to
train officers and how to doyour job as a trainer.
Of course, the big case that'scome out recently is Barnes
versus Felix, so that's thefirst case we'll be looking at.
I've seen and heard a lot ofdiffering opinions about how
that's going to affect you as anofficer and you as a trainer.
So we're going to sit down witha couple of experts who are
(12:31):
Alita members.
We're going to look at thatcase in depth and come up with
recommendations for you, thechanges that you may want to
take a look at making on yourdepartment and in your training
in order to better prepare yourpolice officers out on the
street.
Really looking forward to theopportunity.
It's going to be coming outlate August or early September,
so we're looking forward toseeing you then.
I'm Duane Wolfe for ILITA andthe quarterly legal update.
(12:54):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
So I think Duane might be watching on online.
So, dwayne, thanks for thatGreat training tidbit update of
some great legal stuff here.
I was just going through ourchats here.
I didn't see him on there, buthey, what's coming up next?
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Todd.
Oh, we get a great conversation, hopefully.
I'm guessing this is going tobe fascinating and it's going to
fly with Michael Cantrell andGary York, so perfect timing on
the corrections, guess with ournew sponsors.
(13:43):
So this is exciting.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
This is exciting.
This is exciting.
Well, let's bring Michael andGary on and hang on one second.
Bada bing, bada boom.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
And there we are.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
So, hey, welcome to Aelita Live.
We are happy to have hey.
Welcome to I Lead Alive.
We are happy to have both ofyou on here.
What we usually do with I LeadAlive is we have the guests kind
of give us a little bit ofbackground and tell us about who
you are for the members thatdon't know who you are.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
So, Michael, let's start with you Tell us a little
bit about you and yourbackground and your association
with Aelita.
Absolutely, I started incorrections almost 34 years ago
now, missouri State Pen, whichmy first place to work is now a
museum, if that tells you howold I am.
But I worked for about nineyears with the Missouri
Department of Corrections andthen I stepped over to the
(14:43):
Federal Bureau of Prisons,worked several institutions
there maximum security mostlyEnded up in Washington DC.
At the end of my career as theChief of Emergency Preparedness
and while I was up there, one ofthe things I did was talk to
them about doing a podcast,because I listen to podcasts all
the time on the train and Isaid let's do a podcast that we
(15:04):
can put out to the staff.
Well, the lawyers had it for afew years and they never did
anything with it and finally Iretired.
So I thought, well, you knowwhat, I'll do a podcast.
And so I am now the host of thePrison Officer Podcast.
Been busy, you know.
I tell people I'm failingretirement.
I run that podcast.
We're up over 100 episodes andI've written five books since I
(15:28):
retired.
So I'm failing retirementhorribly.
But thank you for inviting me.
I'm happy to be here, happy tobe here with Gary.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Well, thanks, Michael .
I think Todd is failingretirement as well, not to that
extent.
We can talk about that later.
Gary, tell us about yourselfthere.
Speaker 7 (15:47):
Yes, sir.
Right after high school, Ijoined the United States Army
and did 10 years with the UnitedStates Army and Military Police
.
I ended up with a rank of staffsergeant, got out of the Army
and needed a job, went to thelocal prison, got hired and
needed a job.
Went to the local prison, gothired it was just going to be
temporary.
Well, 29 years later, I retiredfrom corrections.
(16:11):
Within my corrections career of29 years, I was a correctional
officer at a state prison.
I was promoted to felonyprobation and parole where I
worked felony probation in UboisCity, florida.
Then I was promoted to a seniorprison inspector where for 12
years, I conducted criminal,civil and administrative
(16:32):
investigations within Floridaprisons and probation and parole
.
And then Sheriff Grady Judd hada big bonus sign on and it was
the same retirement system formy wife and I left the state
prison system and did our last12 years at the Polk County
Sheriff's Office with the judgeand retired in 2018.
(16:55):
I'm now a columnist forcorrections1.com.
I work for the InternationalAssociation of Chiefs of Police.
I'm a proud member now.
Thank you, carrie Avery, forthe Aelita and I really enjoy
Aelita.
I really am a good fan.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
So you're kind of failing in retirement.
Also, it sounds like you'restaying busy um and uh between
writing and and uh, mentoringand sharing your experience with
others, and and well, you're anAelita member, so you know
occasionally a trainer, butalways a student, so it sounds
(17:37):
like you're feeling retirementmiserably too yes, sir, I I'm
working in several differentareas.
Speaker 7 (17:43):
I haven't left the profession.
So yes, I am.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Excellent.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
I feel left out.
I'm the only one that's stillworking.
I'm not retired, I guess yes.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
If you want to get busy, if you want to be busy,
retire Everybody that I knowthat's retired is busier working
as retired.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Yeah, but you're doing what you want.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
It's different.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Yeah, going out and teaching all the time You're
around people that want to bethere.
It's a whole different thingthan going into a seg unit and
putting up with inmates everyday.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
You know, todd and I I don't think Todd's had any
experience in corrections orworking in the jail, and neither
have I.
You know, I worked for asheriff's department for a while
and I booked them into jail andleft them there.
But that's about the extent.
What's the difference betweenlaw enforcement traditional law
(18:45):
enforcement, and the corrections?
And for those that I mean, weall know, but from your
perspective that you want to getout to the world, tell us a
little bit about the correctionsworld.
Speaker 7 (19:17):
The difference I call it between the jail or the
prison and the street is you'rewalking into an environment
outnumbered more than 101 inmany cases with only pepper
spray and handcuffs and a radio,and backup is close by.
You would say it's so close, butyet it's so far, because it
takes time to get through allthe channels to get there to
help you and back you up.
But you're dealing with thesame population that law
enforcement on the street dealwith.
But you're dealing with them upfront and personal, all day
(19:41):
long, all shift long, and you'reusing your interpersonal
communication skills.
Quite often At least I hope youare, because I would rather use
interpersonal communicationskills and avoid a confrontation
than have one.
But you're going to have them,no matter what they're going to
come about, and you will have touse one.
But you're going to have them,no matter what they're going to
come about, and you will have touse force.
(20:02):
But that's the difference.
You're living with them 12hours, 16 hours a day, uh, as
compared to uh picking them upoff the street and bringing them
in the book.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
I think the other difference is is how hidden we
are.
You know, as a police officeron the street, uh, not only do
you get to interact with, youknow, depending on what call you
show up on it, you might be thehero, you might be the bad guy.
Depends on who you're dealingwith, right?
You know, we're pretty much,even though we're not really the
bad guy, we're perceived thatway.
(20:35):
I mean, look at movies, look atTV, look at all that, and we're
hidden.
And we've done that toourselves in some aspects.
We've, uh, we've kept thatlittle society behind the walls,
quiet and hidden, becausethat's what the public wants,
that's what they pay us to do.
They don't want these people intheir backyard, they want us to
go take care of them and, uh,they don't want to know that
(20:57):
they're part of that justicesystem that took somebody's
freedom away and put them awayfor 50 years.
But the correctional officerinside isn't the one who took
the freedom away.
We're not the one who is doingthis, we're just enforcing the
mandate of the judges and thepublic, and but they don't want
to know that.
And so we get hidden in theresometimes and people forget that
(21:20):
we're in there dealing with it24, seven, 365 days a year.
There is no break, you know.
So I think that's the.
I think that's the thing that'smissing sometimes.
I'd love to see some.
You know, something besidesorange is the new black and and
all that junk on TV that hasnothing to do with what
corrections is.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
It's kind of like cop shows.
Nobody wants to sit there andwatch it in front of a computer
and type, for you know eighthours Right exactly.
You know I actually am veryfascinated by this conversation
because I think that bringingcorrections and dispatch parole
and probation into Aelita is,you know, actively recruiting
(22:08):
these other disciplines intoAelita is way past due, because
I think that we're all part oflaw enforcement.
We're all part of that, youpart of that group and that
association, and yet there aredifferences between what we do
and how we operate.
And, gary, I want to start withyou first.
(22:30):
One of the questions I have,looking over your bio and your
experience and listening to you,is on the investigation side.
You know, I was a officer, Iwas a sergeant detective, did a
lot of investigations, but onthe street side, of things you
(22:53):
know, from homicides andofficer-involved shootings to
burglaries and thefts, what iskind of the difference between
street-level streetinvestigations that you would
normally find detectives orpatrol officers involved in, and
what we find as far asinvestigations in a correctional
(23:15):
institution?
Speaker 7 (23:17):
Well, first of all I'd like to state that your
prisons and jails are smallcities within themselves and you
would think, okay, I've had ahomicide in the prison or I've
had an aggravated battery, it'sgoing to be very easy right to
find the person who did it.
But that's wrong.
It's a small city and all theincarcerated, the ones that want
(23:40):
to tell you information, arescared to give you information
and the others have the code ofsilence or keeping it quiet, and
these investigations canactually get complex.
That in my 12 years doinginvestigations in prisons we
worked often because a lot ofthese cases in the prisons
(24:06):
connect to the outside world.
You're drug smuggling, you'reweapon smuggling, things of this
nature, and I worked so manycases with the Florida
Department of Law Enforcementagents, even the FBI, and all
the local, depending on whatcounty I was in, because we
traveled from county to county.
(24:27):
I worked with the localsheriff's department, the police
department.
We all had to work together tobe stronger to solve prison
crimes.
So a lot of people don'trealize it's not just me, the
prison inspector, conducting aninvestigation from inside the
prison.
I need help, I need the postalinspector, I need the detective
(24:54):
on the street.
We have to connect a lot ofthese crimes from the prison to
the street and hopefully resultin ending the case with some
arrests not only within theprison but on the street, to
help stop the crimes that areoccurring.
So it's not just inside theprison that we invest in.
Everything seems to end upsomehow back on the street in
(25:15):
some way, shape or form.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Let's see.
That makes a lot of sensebecause I mean, as a as a
detective in Oregon, I had casesthat connected to correctional
institutions in Oregon and thenone as far away as a prison in
Tallahassee.
So you know, I ended up havingto fly to Tallahassee to do an
interview in a prison, so itmakes sense that that would be
(25:40):
the case.
So how do you bridge some ofthose divides?
Speaker 7 (25:47):
I always make contact with the local law enforcement
and I always felt that thewardens of the prisons should
make contact with all the locallaw enforcement and tell them
this is what we would do if anescape occurred.
We need to know if we can dosome scenarios together, train
(26:13):
together to learn how we're allgoing to react if there's an
escape.
You know there was a NewOrleans escape that was just
recent.
How is everybody going to reactin a 10-man escape like the one
that just occurred?
We need all agenciesfunctioning together as one to
be stronger.
But if we're not trainingtogether and not communicating
(26:34):
and not reaching out to theother agencies when we have an
escape from the prison, we'regoing to be pretty weak in what
we do if we don't train.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Brian did you?
Speaker 2 (26:51):
No, I'm curious to hear Michael's response to your
questions as well.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
Well, I think Gary's hit one thing on the head
Absolutely Is us workingtogether and part of that comes
to us.
You know it's inviting peoplein because you wouldn't think so
and I don't mean to upsetanybody, but I've ran into a lot
of police officers, a lot ofambulance and a lot of you know
firefighters who are nervous tocome inside the prison.
Well, you know, sometimes if wedo need help, let's say there's
(27:18):
a fire.
You know firefighters who arenervous to come inside the
prison.
Well, you know, sometimes if wedo need help, let's say there's
a fire.
You know, have you brought thatfire department in there ahead
of time?
Have you dealt?
You know, have you decidedwho's going to take what um area
during an escape?
And I think Carrie hits itabsolutely on the head.
Uh, a lot of what we deal within prison is gang related also,
(27:39):
and gangs are not set in onearea, they're spread out all
over the country.
They do that on purpose, justlike any other business would do
, and some of those things areactually controlled from inside
the prison.
We have the ability to givelocal law enforcement a lot of
information if they will justreach out and ask those guys get
on the telephones.
(27:59):
They're talking to theirgirlfriend.
I've heard them.
I have seen where they havetalked about murders.
Well, there they've talkedabout hey so-and-so's got this
hit.
Over here there was aStradivarius violin that had
been gone for years, that wastalked about on a phone call and
was found, you know.
So we have a ton of information.
We can't always follow up witheverything that we hear, but
(28:23):
definitely look towards yourlocal prison, jail, whatever,
and see what their monitoringcapabilities are, see what they
know.
Because we do, we gather a tonof information.
Go ahead.
Speaker 7 (28:38):
I'd like to point out probation, and parole is just
as important.
Oh, absolutely, absolutely theyhave pre-sentence investigation
, post-sentence investigationand a ton of knowledge that we
need to use not only for thestreet, but for the prison as
well.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
Yes, yep.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yes, Yep, community places, but we never went to the
local prison or the jail andgot involved with them and I
think, I think that time haspassed and hopefully most
agencies are are maybe doingthat.
And if not, what are somethings that you can encourage?
Police departments, sheriff'sdepartments, state patrol, to
(29:41):
you know say, hey, we, wewelcome you to come into these,
these jails and prisons, to getto know us and and and the
facility it's, it's not that bad.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
Sure, you know, corrections has this old
mentality and it is going awayin some ways, but they feel like
they're an outsider.
You know, for years we weren'tcalled law enforcement.
People refused to call us lawenforcement.
It wasn't until the last fewdecades that we even got called
officer.
You know, we were called guardor hack or you know those type
(30:17):
of terms.
Nobody even recognized us asthe job that we do.
And still today, if you go toCalifornia, you know those guys
go through a complete policeacademy.
They are, you know, officers,law enforcement officers.
But yet if you go to the stateof Missouri, those guys go
through a three-week academy andthey're not law enforcement
officers.
So as you go around the country, there's so many different
(30:40):
facets of how we're looked at.
But, um, you know, we are beingbrought in, we are being looked
at as law enforcement, now thatthe training that we have is
well above what it used to be.
Uh, you'll see that at ILETAalso.
But sometimes it's just, youknow, offering them a seat at
the table.
Um, I did really well when I wasworking in Springfield,
(31:02):
missouri, and I got with thelocal sheriff, I got with the
local police department, Italked to those trainers, we got
to where we'd go down to Hy-Veefor cashew chicken or, you know
, chinese food once a month, andwhen we would all get together
and they had resources I coulduse for my guys, I had resources
they could bring in you know, abreaching wall, their range,
(31:23):
and so we had these discussionsabout sharing training, sharing
resources and sometimes all ittakes.
I mean, when we got done withthat, I think when I left, there
was like 12 of us that metevery month from around the
county and stuff, and sosometimes it's just inviting
(31:44):
them to the table, letting themknow, you know, and you know
we're talking about Alita hereand absolutely don't take this
the wrong way.
I joined Alita in 2015, butnowhere on the membership
application or anything did itsay corrections, you know, and
so I always kind of kept thatquiet.
I knew that I was learning andI was reading the journal and I
didn't go the journal and Ididn't get to go to the
conference back then, but I readthe journals from some of the
top people around the country.
I was a big firearms instructorat the time and was just
(32:07):
gathering that information, butI kind of kept it quiet because
nobody really wanted to hearfrom the corrections guy.
A lot of that's changed andlast year we proved that a bunch
with bringing a lot of peoplein and talking about corrections
openly.
So I'm excited.
I think it is changing.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
And that kind of leads to a question that I also
had about corrections and youwere talking and you kind of
touched on it a little bit, butit's the leadership component
and you kind of touched on it alittle bit, but it's the
leadership component.
The leadership what is?
I don't know some of the uniquechallenges as leaders that you
(32:47):
find in corrections.
That maybe is unique tocorrections that you're not
really going to see on thestreet.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
Yeah, I talk oh, go ahead, go, gary.
No, you go ahead.
Speaker 6 (33:03):
I talk in my classes.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
Sorry, I talk in my classes to the officers and I
let them know this all the time.
I'll be quick here.
They are leaders.
In order to work in corrections, you have to be a leader.
You have to take a group ofinmates, you have to have
influence on them to get them todo what you need done.
And a lot of them don't realizethat the moment they step into
corrections that they're leaders.
(33:26):
We have great leaders incorrections.
That's why, when you take alook at our staff, you're going
to see them in t-ball coaches.
You're going to see themrunning the church organizations
You're going to.
We get asked to do that stuffbecause it's it's in us to go
grab 12 people and do something.
So we are great leaders andthat develops great leaders.
So that's one of the things Ithink I want to tell them and
(33:49):
let them know Go ahead, gary.
Speaker 7 (33:51):
No, Mike, you're.
You're so correct.
Our correctional officers areleaders.
They have to make so manyon-spot decisions daily without
a supervisor, and if they don'tmake that decision right, then
something bad could go wrong.
As far as midline supervisors,they have a unique job in
(34:15):
corrections.
You're not only supervisingcorrectional officers, but
you're also responsible forcivilian staff as well.
You need to make sure they'reaware of security issues.
You need to make sure that thecivilian staff are aware of what
they are allowed to do and notallowed to do, and then the
supervisors of corrections alsohave to worry about the inmate
(34:37):
population as well.
So you really, as a supervisor,a sergeant, a lieutenant or a
captain in corrections, youreally have a huge
responsibility.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
I don't think people understand the numbers.
You know as, uh, you know, andI work some big prisons, you
know, like Leavenworth andSpringfield and Thompson, on on
a shift as a Lieutenant, as ashift supervisor.
I would have anywhere between50 to 60 staff.
I'd have a thousand, 1300inmates.
I'd have half a dozenvolunteers inside the
(35:10):
institution.
I would have, uh, you know, thecooks and the recreation and
everybody maintenance workinglike that and I was in charge of
that shift, recreation andeverybody maintenance working
like that and I was in charge ofthat shift.
Those are big numbers for mostpeople when you think about
leadership.
Huge numbers, very huge.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
And and unique, right , I mean, that's a unique
challenge that, um, uh, you'renot going to see out on the
street because our, our span ofinfluence or span of control, is
intentionally kept smaller.
I mean, that's huge.
So that is one of those uniquechallenges.
(35:48):
Can you think of any otherthings that might be unique that
are specific to thatcorrectional setting when it
comes to leadership?
Speaker 7 (35:58):
specific to that correctional setting.
When it comes to leadership,well, when you get into upper
management and your PIO, yourcorrections leaders have to be
very careful, just like lawenforcement on the street, but
the community wants to knowanswers.
When you see something happenin a prison or jail, like the
escape, you have to be able toanswer the questions of the
(36:23):
community and the media, and Ithink for any criminal justice
agency that's a tough job.
So add that to the pile ofbeing a leader.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
Yeah, and I think when you take a look at the
expectations upon us for a lawenforcement officer, I think
even it's it's pretty linear,you're, you feel like you're
there to serve the public.
I mean, that's just, you'rethere to serve the public.
That's what you're taught,that's what you do as a
correctional officer.
You not only, and you and youhave conflicting um expectations
(36:59):
from the public and what theyexpect, because if you talk to
the public, you'll heareverything from you know, lock
them up forever to let them out.
Now you've got inmates on theinside, you know, who have their
own viewpoint of what's goingon and can be violent, can, can
cause problems, but yet, at thesame time, I've taken an oath to
(37:20):
protect them.
They are my charge, they arethe true reason I'm there.
And then, on top of that, Ihave to look at another set,
which is the staff members whoneed to be protected from these
violent inmates in here.
So you know I don't have thatlinear look at you know my job.
I have to look all thesedifferent directions at all the
(37:42):
same time and all the mastersI'm serving at the same time.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Wow Sounds like a challenge.
Speaker 4 (37:52):
Builds great leaders though.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Well it does, and um, I'm sure, um, once you go up
the food chain in corrections,there's some great opportunities
to be in charge of differentareas.
Let me ask you this how is thetraining ran in corrections?
(38:16):
Just because I'm an outsiderlooking in, I'm not sure how
that is done in corrections.
How would you go about doingtraining and selecting the
leaders for the trainers?
Speaker 7 (38:30):
Well, I'll tell you, what we always try to do here in
Florida is cross train.
So if I want to be a sergeant,I need to know my job, but I
need to know all the jobs.
So we always try to have ourofficers work in the dormitory,
give them a chance to work intransportation, because we have
(38:51):
to transport inmates to court,we have to transport inmates to
other prisons and other jails.
We wanted our officers to workin bookend when I was in jail.
We wanted them to work and wewould give them assignments.
In other words, hey, you're nota sergeant, but let me give you
an assignment.
(39:11):
By doing that, we're empoweringthe officer to do something
meaningful, but we're alsogiving that officer confidence
and letting them know we trustthem.
That's the way I feel when yougive them a job that's
meaningful and they completethat task successfully.
I've completed severalobstacles in leadership.
(39:32):
I've shown them that I trustthem.
I've given them a job to do.
I've recognized that they did agood job and thanked them.
But I've trained them at thesame time by having them do
crossover training.
And I think before you become asergeant in corrections, you
need to know the entire jobfield within the prison or the
(39:53):
jail.
Speaker 4 (39:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, one thing I want totalk about with Aelita and us
bringing corrections into thefold is the skills that are
needed.
Inside are very much the same,and a good trainer, a good law
enforcement trainer, is neededas a good correctional trainer,
and there's not that muchdifference.
If you're a good firearmstrainer, you know in law
(40:18):
enforcement you're a goodfirearms trainer in corrections,
and they can learn from eachother.
Um, I know that.
You know I was a little bit ofthe exception.
I think corrections doesn'talways do, um, objective driven
training.
Sometimes we just do it tocheck the box.
You know, like something goeswrong at the institution and we,
(40:38):
you know something ethically.
Well, we'll have an ethicsclass, but we'll talk about, uh,
you know, we'll talk aboutpolicy.
Well, lack of policy knowledgeprobably wasn't what, what drove
the problem, right?
Um, so we do a lot of thatcheck the box stuff and I,
pretty early in my career,decided well, and I'll tell you,
(40:58):
it was an ILETA member and Igot to talk to him this year for
the first time at theconference Jim Glennon, I paid
my own money, went outside theprison, went to a class.
I was the only correctionalofficer sitting there with a
bunch of cops and went to one ofhis classes.
He really opened my eyes towhat training could be.
I started modeling myself afterthe trainers that I was seeing
(41:24):
in law enforcement and spent alot of money, you know, every
year.
My wife was really good andshe'd send me, you know, here
you can go to this training, youcan go to this training.
So I'd pick something that wastotally away from work and, um,
it made me very valuable at work.
Um, one, because I had skillsand knowledge that I learned
from outside of what everybodyelse was learning.
(41:45):
And two, it gave me drive, youknow, and I worked every day to
become a good instructor and agood trainer.
And I know I'm talking a littlelong winded here, but here's,
here's, one of the mostimportant things I want to say
about correctional training.
You know, as a correctionalofficer, I don't get to go out
with my buddies to McDonald'sonce in a while.
(42:05):
I don't get to go do that stuff.
The only opportunity I have toget out of that housing unit or
that seg unit or whatever iswhen I get eight hours of
training and to be able to goout there and network and talk
and learn as a correctionaltrainer.
That is such a high level thatyou need to bring to class.
(42:26):
You can't give them ahalf-assed class.
They deserve so much morebecause that's all they're going
to get for another month or twoor three or six, right?
So if you've got them for eighthours and they get that
opportunity to come out thereand feel normal I'll put it that
way to feel normal, right?
It's so important that we takeour time and spend it
(42:49):
appropriately to help them dothat.
Speaker 7 (42:52):
And Mike, you bring such a valid point because we
can train and we can give theclasses, but what I think a lot
of young officers need to knowtoday is, in the end, in the
very end Mike brought up a supervalid point it is up to you,
the individual, to go out andseek that extra training you
(43:14):
need if you want to succeed.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Which kind of brings us to the question of what type
of person, what type ofpersonality, what type of
individual would be ideallysuited for that type of position
(43:38):
.
Speaker 4 (43:41):
Absolutely.
I think what we get in a badhabit of doing is picking the
person that's been there thelongest, and that's not always
necessarily the best trainer.
I want the person with passion.
I want the person who trulycares that, when people walk out
of their class, that they learnsomething, and so I think you
need to look at the individual.
(44:02):
What are they doing?
Do you see them mentoring inthe housing units?
Are they sitting in the corneror are they grabbing the rookie
and going come here, let me showyou how to do this.
That's the guy you want to makea trainer.
That's the guy you want toinvest the training money in.
Not necessarily the guy that'sgot the 25 years in and might
know more.
(44:23):
He may not know more when itcomes to teaching others.
He may just know more policy orhave more experience, and that
doesn't always translate to moretraining.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
So it sounds like pretty much the same
characteristics that we would belooking at for a police trainer
.
Speaker 4 (44:41):
Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And those are the people I wentto.
I was, you know, I was alwaysin awe of some of those guys out
there, um, in the, in thepolice departments, and and how
passionate they were.
You know whether it wasbreaching or whether it was
firearms or whatever it was.
And yeah, it was, and yeah.
Speaker 7 (45:02):
You have to have the uh, the officers with the
winning attitude, the patientofficer, and you have to have an
officer uh without negativity.
The negativity breedsnegativity and you can't have
anyone with a negativenegativity, uh, or grumpiness,
as I call.
I call it training, anotheroption.
(45:24):
You have to have, just as Mikedescribed, winning attitude,
passionate and wanting to trainsomeone, even if they make them
better than them and theysurpass them later in their
career, realizing I trained thatperson, so I did something
right.
They passed me, realizing Itrained that person, so I did
something right.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
They passed me.
You know we talk about goingout and seeking training, making
yourself a better correctionalofficer, a better trainer For
those that want to go seek thetraining.
What better way to be a trainerand train?
What would you tell acorrectional officer that's
considering submitting aproposal to teach at the ILETA
(46:06):
conference?
Great question by Joe.
Speaker 4 (46:11):
That is a great question.
I know that we're looking forsome great correctional classes
this year.
You know, my life is all aboutdoors and, and whenever you have
a door open it, open it andwalk through.
You're never going to knowwhat's on the other side.
And it seems you know.
When you look at putting in anILETA proposal, you're like, oh
(46:33):
my gosh, you know, am I reallyat this level?
Well, take a good look atyourself.
Make sure that you do know thesubject that you're going to
bring forward and then go shareit, and that's all it is.
It's nothing bigger than that.
You're not going to be on astage like Elvis.
You're going to be in a roomfull of people sharing your
knowledge, right?
And what more can you ask for,especially as you get older in
(46:56):
this business?
That's what you want to do,isn't it?
Speaker 7 (47:06):
do, isn't it?
And I've been communicatingwith Joe and I've got a few
people from corrections to signup for Aelita, and that's what
the question is.
They asked me I don't know ifI'm ready for that big of a
platform yet.
Well, this is what I tell them.
I say look, pretty much whatMike just described.
We break out in the individualclassroom.
What Mike just described.
We break out in the individualclassroom.
If you've done training at youragency, it's basically the same
(47:28):
thing.
You're meeting with your group,you're giving a topic that you
have knowledge of and you'reaware of and you're sharing
information.
There is no pressure on you,there is no one on you.
There is no one testing you.
We're all there to share ourresources, share our knowledge
and make each other better iswhat I tell them.
(47:49):
Don't have any fear, pleasebegin to give a class.
That's what I say.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
One of the things about Aelita that I love you're
not going to have people in yourclass that don't want to be in
your class.
You've only got people in yourclass that want to be in your
class.
So you know, it makes it apleasure to teach.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Everybody at Alita is a student.
Whether you're teaching orlearning, we're all students and
um, it's you know the the?
The best thing about Alita is apeer driven organization where
everybody's on the same level.
Nobody is better than anybodyelse, and we're, we're there to,
uh, um, gain some wisdom fromeach other, whether it's in a
(48:30):
classroom setting or in ahallway.
But, um, we would love to havemore correctional officers come
and and impart their wisdom onus, because I would come and
impart their wisdom on usbecause I would like to expand
my brain housing group here alittle bit and learn a little
bit more about the correctionside.
(48:51):
So that would be veryinteresting.
And so you know, going back tothis one slide, we have our
sponsor tonight is CorrectionalNews, and what better place to
go get some information aboutcorrection officers and the
industry than going to theCorrectional News website?
(49:12):
Both of you write there,writing great articles.
I've seen a couple of them.
Didn't have time to dive intoall of them but, michael, did I
read something that you writepoetry.
Speaker 4 (49:27):
I have written some poetry.
It was one of the things thatwhen you're sitting on midnight
shift and you know everybody'slocked down and you're doing
rounds, so I would take out apiece of paper and some of my
poetry is pretty dark.
But yeah, I've written poetry.
I've written a couple of books.
Next month I'll have threechildren's books coming out.
(49:49):
So yeah, I'm kind of stretchingmy whatever my skills a little
bit Nice.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
We've got a lot of Aelita members that have written
books and a lot that want towrite books.
What advice would you give tosomebody that would is looking
to write a book?
Speaker 4 (50:10):
Well, first come to.
I lead it next year because wehad a.
I think last year was the firsttime we had the author's tables
right and Gary and I were there, wayne South, uh, there was a
bunch of us there and that was agreat time to sit around and,
and you know, kind of displayour stuff.
Um, you know people get hung upwith writing things correctly.
You know you want it to be onthe page the first time,
(50:31):
correctly?
Uh, don't worry about that.
Get it put on the page.
You don't know the number ofpeople I've listened to over the
years.
Well, if, if only I had donethis, I'd have a book.
You got to do it.
Write it down.
You can edit it later.
People can help you edit.
I can help you edit it thesedays.
Just get it written downbecause your story probably is
(50:52):
important to somebody.
So, yeah, that's my advice.
Speaker 7 (50:57):
Yes, I tell people, write down, don't worry about
chapter order, chapter one,chapter two, chapter three.
Write down all your information, what you want to say and the
point you want to get across.
After you get your pointswritten and get everything
written down, you can decidelater what chapter order they're
(51:18):
going to go in.
They're going to go in you can.
We have.
There's editors out there thatdon't charge an arm and a leg.
If you're not great with uhediting and they will edit it uh
for you.
Uh, you can.
Now I have a traditionalpublisher.
Finally, after my first threebooks on amazon, that took my
(51:38):
fourth book.
It should come out, hopefullythis year.
Uh, but I self-publish onAmazon my first three books.
It's free, it doesn't cost youa penny.
So you don't have to pay an armand a leg to publish a book on
Amazon and they give you apretty reasonable percentage of
the royalty.
So I tell people don't be shy,get it out there, get your books
going.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
Absolutely.
I published a coloring book.
Does that count?
Speaker 4 (52:04):
Absolutely.
That takes imagination.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
What is it that Katie says about writing articles?
Katie says I'll give the ratedG version button seat words on
paper.
That's right.
Speaker 3 (52:20):
Which I guess is a perfect segue into the journal
article submissions being due onSeptember 10th right.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
September 10th Aelita journal submissions.
Get with any of the Aelitaeditors myself, gary Avery, Dan
Frazier and Kim Schlau and wewill help you anybody get
published in the Aelita Journal.
So if you haven't writtenanything and you want to get
(52:50):
published in an internationalpublication, we can help you do
that.
Write a powerful article on anytype of training subject.
We're there to help our membersany type of training subject.
Speaker 4 (53:05):
It's.
We're there to help our members.
So, yeah, I wrote my first onefor the Alita journal in 2015.
And one of the things I'll sayabout that I mean, if you're
trying to build your resume, ifyou're trying to be a
professional, and in whateverarea of training you are,
there's nothing better than tobe able to, you know, showcase.
You know I've been published inthis journal and absolutely
I've.
I've had a lot of help from theguys um there, but uh, yeah,
(53:27):
that was my first one was 2015.
It kind of set me on the paththere to doing many other
articles.
Speaker 3 (53:34):
Kind of get you.
You get a test of water, so tospeak.
If uh, um, if you're interestedin writing a book, that's a
good way to start small and gofrom there.
Speaker 4 (53:45):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 7 (53:48):
Exactly A lot of the information in your articles can
be used in your book, so you'realready writing down a lot of
the information you're going touse later.
Speaker 2 (53:58):
Well, hey, we're running up about an hour.
Well, hey, we're running upabout an hour.
We're going to jump into thenext couple of segments and then
we'll kind of come back, circleback with Gary and Michael and
for some final thoughts.
So give us just a few minutes.
Our next segment is theinstructor development segment.
We started this last month, Ibelieve, and this month we have
(54:22):
Joe Willis giving us somevaluable instructor tips.
So, joe, take it away.
Speaker 6 (54:36):
Are you reading Make it Stick right now with us?
That's the book of the monthfor Alita this month Make it
Stick the Science of SuccessfulLearning and we chose that book
because Aelita members recognizeit as one of the most
foundational books of the workwe're doing, and I want to talk
about not just what's in thatbook.
(54:58):
So many of us could do that.
Many are familiar with it andif you haven't read it, I cannot
recommend it strongly enough.
But I want to talk about therelevance to me and my challenge
to all of us as trainers, whichis to become conversant in the
topics we teach.
Now I am a deputy director ofAelita, but I'm also a coach and
(55:18):
personal trainer and this is anenvironment where I love to
come and work and I love toteach and train, and so I was
thinking about this as I'mrereading this book that I've
actually read a couple of times.
Its particular relevance to meright now is on the importance
of becoming conversant in thetopics we train.
(55:39):
To be conversant means to behabitually present in a subject,
and when we have a conversationwith people, we are in the same
place at the same time.
Oftentimes we see it withtrainers and instructors.
We're able to go grab a lessonplan, we're familiar with it and
we can present it.
But that is distinctlydifferent from those who are
(56:03):
effortfully conversant in asubject Can take that and have
that meaningful conversation ina classroom and facilitate a
discussion with other learners,themselves being among them.
And so I want to take us justreally quickly into the
practices in the book this monthof Make it Stick, specifically
(56:25):
with the concept of effortfulretrieval.
When we become conversant in asubject matter, we often have to
delve deep into spaces that wedon't necessarily remember all
of the details of, or we can'tnecessarily immediately recall
all of the aspects associatedwith it, and so there's the
(56:46):
requirement to challengeourselves, to go back, to guess
before Google, to try to recallthings, to do low stakes or no
stakes, testing even withourselves, and to be engaged in
a conversation with anotherperson while we're doing.
That is incredibly important.
Also, the space and variedenvironment in which we expose
(57:08):
ourselves to this subject matterand so to be able to
contextualize this topic in thisspace is different than that
same topic in this space, and itcreates those neural pathways
to more effectively andconversively recall that
information.
Also, the way in which weinterleave in conversations is
(57:30):
different.
Now, don't be one of thosepeople who I want to dabble this
topic into every conversation,but, where appropriate, find
ways of becoming conversant,habitually present with the
topics you teach in variedenvironments, and you'll find
that it's an incredible way tobecome more of an authority on
(57:52):
that subject, to be much morefamiliar with it and comfortable
in that learning environmentwhere somebody says to you hey,
I got a question and you'reready to answer it, or at least
acknowledge the fact that weboth have a little bit of
learning to do right now, solet's explore that.
So, anyway, I'm Joe Willis.
My challenge to all of us thismonth is to become more
conversant in the topics we'retrying.
Speaker 2 (58:29):
Thank you, Joe, for that powerful presentation Make
it stick.
Speaker 7 (58:33):
Have you guys read that book?
Speaker 2 (58:35):
No, but I will now, it's been a long time.
I read it several years ago.
But I'm going to have to.
I know I think I've got it onKindle, but I'm going to reread
that book, oh, kindle.
Speaker 3 (58:49):
Wow yeah, mine's all dog-eared and I've got torn
little sticky notes sticking outof it all over the place.
Crazy, it's a good one, highlyrecommended.
Speaker 2 (59:00):
Absolutely.
Hey, we're running up on the730 hour.
I wanted to kind of go aroundhere Todd any final questions.
Speaker 3 (59:10):
comments for Michael or Gary Guys, I want to say
thank you for for joining usthis evening.
I think bringing correctionalofficers into AelITA is long
overdue and I think that youguys are leading the charge, so
thank you very much for that.
And we talked about the journalarticle deadline coming up on
(59:35):
September 10th and theinstructor proposals being due
October 31st.
So any correctional officersthat are out there that you guys
know or that anybody in theaudience knows that would be
interested in being part of ourtribe of trainers you know.
Recruit them in and let's getthem actively involved in
(59:56):
helping us all learn.
Speaker 2 (59:58):
Sure, absolutely Echo what Todd said.
And one more important deadlineto consider December 1st is the
deadline for the AelitaScholarship application, or that
actually opens up on December1st, my bad.
So if there's anybody, what'sthat?
Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
I was a scholarship kid.
Oh, that's how I got started,oh, I got started.
Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
It's a.
It's a great opportunity forthose that have not been to a
conference, that are willing tocome in, and maybe a first time
correctional officer.
There's some scholarshipsavailable and that will open up
on December 1st.
So look for that coming out inemails, social media and and
future Aelita lives.
(01:00:42):
But, guys, I just want to thankyou for your time tonight that
you give to our Aelita membersand coming to the Aelita
conference, writing for thejournal and recruiting new
members for corrections to cometo Aelita.
I can't say that enough.
I'm happy to be discussingcorrectional issues with more
(01:01:08):
people in corrections.
But hey, Gary, I want to giveyou any final thoughts.
Words of wisdom.
Speaker 7 (01:01:15):
I want to thank you very much for having us on
tonight and allowing correctionsand and Probation of Parole to
be a part of ILITA, and I justwant to tell everyone out there
that the public trust is whatit's all about and protecting
the public, and we all need totrain together to share our
(01:01:37):
resources to help protect thepublic and earn trust and in the
end, we all meet at thecourthouse when everything's
finished.
We testify to judges and juriesand what we do needs to show
our professionalism and that weare all working together to
reach the same goal.
Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
Thank you, Gary, Michael.
Final words of wisdom.
Speaker 4 (01:02:06):
You know, the big topic these days is, uh,
recruitment and retention.
Um better way to recruit andthere's no better way to retain
the staff you have than to havethem well trained.
So, uh, you know, awell-trained officer knows his
job, feels comfortable when hewalks through the gate, is more
likely to stay there.
So invest in your training,invest in your trainers.
If you're out there listeningto this from, uh, from sheriffs
(01:02:27):
to jails, to prisons, whereverand there's no better place than
Aelita to to get them started,I'm telling you it is a huge um,
it's just like a dictionary orencyclopedia of trainers.
No matter what you want to know, there's somebody that's done a
little bit of it and Ithoroughly appreciate being
brought into the fold.
And if anybody's got anyquestions, feel free to reach
(01:02:50):
out to me and I'll I'll tell youhow to get going here.
Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
Appreciate it, guys, everybody.
I lead a family members.
Thank you for joining ustonight and we will see you in
one month for another episode ofAelita Live.
Have a great night, everybody.
Good evening everybody.
How's everybody doing out therein Aelita world?
We are here in July already.
And wow, july.
How many days until the nextAelita conference, todd, you
know.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Oh, I have no idea, but this year seems to be flying
.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Let's go with 242 until ILETA 2026.
That seems so far off.
That's so close.
It will be here before you knowit.
You know what?
Christmas is almost here, goodgrief.
So we'll be here before youknow it.
You know what?
Christmas is almost here, goodgrief.
So myself and Todd Fletcherhere, and we're going to be
(01:11):
giving you another awesome.
I lead alive with two greatguests from the corrections
world.
We have correctionsrepresentatives from all over
the world and it's nice to get acouple of the well-known
correctional experts here and wewill talk about them here in
just a little bit.
Before we do that, we want togo with some Aelita news here
(01:36):
and we've got some new slideshere.
This episode of Aelita Live isbrought to you by correctional
news.
Go out there and check them out.
There's a QR code and this issomething brand new to I lead
alive.
We're getting some sponsors tohelp us out with these.
I lead a lives here, prettyexciting.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
You're going to go big time on us after this, I
think sponsors and ads and allthis stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
That's pretty cool Well we're excited for the kind
of partnership that CorrectionalNews has been doing here?
Yeah, it's awesome.
But hey, let's jump into somenews and updates.
What's going on in Alita herein July of 2025?
(02:25):
Well, the first thing we wantyou guys to do is check your
membership.
Is it current?
Do you need to renew it?
Check your profile have youretired?
Have you went to a differentdepartment, transferred lateral?
We just want you to jump inthere and check all your
(02:46):
information to make sure it'scurrent, and we know it's easy
to make your membership lapse alittle bit.
It's easy to fix that.
Just contact Jenny at the ILETAoffice.
Her number's right there, heremail is right there.
If you're having issues withrenewing your subscription or if
you're not a member, she's thego to person to join Aelita.
(03:11):
So leave that up there for justa little bit.
Make sure your contacts,everything is current up there.
Early bird registration Aelita2026.
It's hard to say 2026 when it'sstill 2025.
But it's open until October31st of 2025.
(03:35):
And it's $399.
That's an awesome deal.
So before October 31st, you canget that early bird special.
Go in there and register forthe Aelita 2026 conference.
Todd, when's the instructor?
Proposals due.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Let's go back a little bit.
Don't forget also that there'sa new multiple member bundle
option where, if you registerfive or more people, you get the
same $399 rate for theconference as you would if you
got everybody registered asearly birds.
So that's something new thisyear and something that I think
(04:21):
departments should be takingadvantage of Absolutely
departments should be takingadvantage of.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Absolutely Many departments send multiple
instructors.
Hey, take advantage of thatbenefit right there 100%.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
I mean, you think about that If you were to send
five people, it's basically buyfour, get one free right?
So that's a great deal.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Very good reminder there, Todd.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
And when you mention the instructor proposals, those
are due October 31st.
So, unless you're like BrianHill and some others that are
going to wait till like October30th, try to get those in early,
because we're apparentlyalready on track to exceed last
year's number of proposals forsetting another record.
(05:12):
And so there's two trains ofthought here do like Brian does
and wait till the last momentand really dump everything on on
Brian and Joe to get throughthose, you know, all last minute
, or we could help them out andgive them an opportunity to take
(05:35):
a look at some of these uhinstructor proposals a little
bit earlier.
So, uh, I don't know what areyou going to do, brian?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
The pressure is on.
The pressure is on, I think youI think that was a challenge
there, todd I think I'm going tohave to I'm looking at possibly
doing something a little bitdifferent this year.
So I've got I've got somebrainstorm written down on a, on
a legal pad, two pages of justideas that just possibly going
(06:06):
in a new direction, maybe someleadership type training is what
I'm looking at.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
So oh, very cool.
That's exciting, see, and I wasgoing to ask you if you're
going to give us a hint or ifyou're just going to kind of
leave it there and let it hang.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Well speaking of hints and I know you don't want
to let the cat out of the bag,but you're involved in some of
the most secret squirrel stuffaelita does.
What is that me?
Yes, you.
There's something at the aelitaconference that you're involved
in that is top secret.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
That's top secret, top secret.
I don't know of anything that'stop secret.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Nobody knows, until the night.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Oh, okay, but everybody knows about Emerson
Hour, or at least they should,even if you haven't come to the
Aelita Conference.
We mention Emerson Hour enoughto where people should know
about Emerson Hour, but the onlyreally thing that's top secret
about that is the who's invitedto speak and who the speakers
(07:09):
ultimately are.
That's my secret, all right.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
All right, One of the best.
I mean everything at Alita istop notch, but that's one of the
most go-to events thateverybody must attend, so I'm
kind of looking forward toseeing who your lineup is for
2026.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Yeah, I've already got my hooks in a couple of
people and looking forward to it.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
But hey, while we're talking about we've kind of
teased some people about 2026conference.
Since Joe's not here, let'splay this little video that I
have about what's going on atthe Alita conference.
Hang on, let me just pull thisvideo up here for everybody.
Speaker 5 (08:06):
The fundamental philosophies and principles of
the organization have stayedconsistent since the start.
It's about the membership.
It's about us facilitatingtraining that's going to raise
the bar for the profession as awhole, facilitate that learning
and that growth for people inthe profession that are
interested in what can we do todo a better job, to prepare our
(08:27):
people for the complexities andthe challenges of the profession
that they're in.
We're an association that'scommitted to trainers and to
training that also happens torun a world-class conference.
Speaker 6 (08:50):
We have an entirely packed schedule over the course
of a week.
Every night at Aelita isdesigned to get trainers to
connect to each other and to theindustries that support
training and law enforcement.
Speaker 5 (08:59):
And the environment here at ED was very intentional
about creating this culture,where it's a culture of peers.
It should be on your bucketlist of things to come Once
you've been here.
Once then you'll understandwhat all the buzz is about.
Ileda is more than a conference.
It's not just sharing ofacademic theories.
It's practical application forthe research and that
(09:21):
information.
It's important to have aconnection with like-minded
people who are going through thesame struggles, have been
through the same struggles.
Knowing that you're not aloneand that you have people that
you can reach out to issomething that a lot of trainers
need.
Speaker 6 (09:40):
This conference will always be the cornerstone.
This conference will always bethe pilgrimage that trainers
take every year to find oneanother.
Speaker 5 (09:48):
So just that connection is a critical
component and an important pieceof being part of this community
of trainers, which is what itis.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
What a powerful video .
You did an amazing job on that.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
That is amazing.
Is that video available foreverybody, Todd.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Yeah, apparently we're going to to be available
for everybody.
That's going to be an amazingaddition.
That.
That's really cool.
They did a great job.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Or even to show that to your supervisor, your chief,
to hopefully help you get to theILETA conference in 2026.
Hopefully help you get to theAelita.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Conference in 2026.
Yeah, I mean, it shows theprofessionalism, the level of
commitment to the people thatmake this association, this
organization, what it is, and Ithink that that's a really good
representation of who we are.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Absolutely.
Hey, we have a new segment hereon Aelita Live and it's just a
short video, and one of ourfabulous members that's been
with Aelita, I think since theinception of Aelita Dwayne Wolfe
, and he's going to speak to usabout a legal update.
Let's hear what Dwayne has tosay here in his a legal update.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Let's hear what Dwayne has to say here in his.
In Barnes v Felix, the SupremeCourt reaffirms the totality of
circumstances standards ofGraham v Conner, rejecting the
Fifth Circuit's narrow moment ofthreat approach For law
enforcement trainers.
This isn't a shift.
It's a signal to double down onscenario-based training,
documentation, practices andpolicy language that reflects
(11:46):
the whole picture, not just thesplit-second decision.
Hello ILEDA members, I'm DuaneWolfe.
I just wanted to give you aheads up about something new
that's going to be coming outshortly.
Ileda has asked me to host aquarterly legal update and I'm
really looking forward to theopportunity.
The objective is to sit down,take a look at the current case
law, any changes that occurredrecently, to get that
(12:09):
information out to you for youto better understand how to
train officers and how to doyour job as a trainer.
Of course, the big case that'scome out recently is Barnes
versus Felix, so that's thefirst case we'll be looking at.
I've seen and heard a lot ofdiffering opinions about how
that's going to affect you as anofficer and you as a trainer.
So we're going to sit down witha couple of experts who are
(12:31):
Alita members.
We're going to look at thatcase in depth and come up with
recommendations for you, thechanges that you may want to
take a look at making on yourdepartment and in your training
in order to better prepare yourpolice officers out on the
street.
Really looking forward to theopportunity.
It's going to be coming outlate August or early September,
so we're looking forward toseeing you then.
I'm Duane Wolfe for ILITA andthe quarterly legal update.
(12:54):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
So I think Duane might be watching on online.
So, dwayne, thanks for thatGreat training tidbit update of
some great legal stuff here.
I was just going through ourchats here.
I didn't see him on there, buthey, what's coming up next?
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Todd.
Oh, we get a great conversation, hopefully.
I'm guessing this is going tobe fascinating and it's going to
fly with Michael Cantrell andGary York, so perfect timing on
the corrections, guess with ournew sponsors.
(13:43):
So this is exciting.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
This is exciting.
This is exciting.
Well, let's bring Michael andGary on and hang on one second.
Bada bing, bada boom.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
And there we are.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
So, hey, welcome to Aelita Live.
We are happy to have hey.
Welcome to I Lead Alive.
We are happy to have both ofyou on here.
What we usually do with I LeadAlive is we have the guests kind
of give us a little bit ofbackground and tell us about who
you are for the members thatdon't know who you are.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
So, Michael, let's start with you Tell us a little
bit about you and yourbackground and your association
with Aelita.
Absolutely, I started incorrections almost 34 years ago
now, missouri State Pen, whichmy first place to work is now a
museum, if that tells you howold I am.
But I worked for about nineyears with the Missouri
Department of Corrections andthen I stepped over to the
(14:43):
Federal Bureau of Prisons,worked several institutions
there maximum security mostlyEnded up in Washington DC.
At the end of my career as theChief of Emergency Preparedness
and while I was up there, one ofthe things I did was talk to
them about doing a podcast,because I listen to podcasts all
the time on the train and Isaid let's do a podcast that we
(15:04):
can put out to the staff.
Well, the lawyers had it for afew years and they never did
anything with it and finally Iretired.
So I thought, well, you knowwhat, I'll do a podcast.
And so I am now the host of thePrison Officer Podcast.
Been busy, you know.
I tell people I'm failingretirement.
I run that podcast.
We're up over 100 episodes andI've written five books since I
(15:28):
retired.
So I'm failing retirementhorribly.
But thank you for inviting me.
I'm happy to be here, happy tobe here with Gary.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Well, thanks, Michael .
I think Todd is failingretirement as well, not to that
extent.
We can talk about that later.
Gary, tell us about yourselfthere.
Speaker 7 (15:47):
Yes, sir.
Right after high school, Ijoined the United States Army
and did 10 years with the UnitedStates Army and Military Police
.
I ended up with a rank of staffsergeant, got out of the Army
and needed a job, went to thelocal prison, got hired and
needed a job.
Went to the local prison, gothired it was just going to be
temporary.
Well, 29 years later, I retiredfrom corrections.
(16:11):
Within my corrections career of29 years, I was a correctional
officer at a state prison.
I was promoted to felonyprobation and parole where I
worked felony probation in UboisCity, florida.
Then I was promoted to a seniorprison inspector where for 12
years, I conducted criminal,civil and administrative
(16:32):
investigations within Floridaprisons and probation and parole
.
And then Sheriff Grady Judd hada big bonus sign on and it was
the same retirement system formy wife and I left the state
prison system and did our last12 years at the Polk County
Sheriff's Office with the judgeand retired in 2018.
(16:55):
I'm now a columnist forcorrections1.com.
I work for the InternationalAssociation of Chiefs of Police.
I'm a proud member now.
Thank you, carrie Avery, forthe Aelita and I really enjoy
Aelita.
I really am a good fan.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
So you're kind of failing in retirement.
Also, it sounds like you'restaying busy um and uh between
writing and and uh, mentoringand sharing your experience with
others, and and well, you're anAelita member, so you know
occasionally a trainer, butalways a student, so it sounds
(17:37):
like you're feeling retirementmiserably too yes, sir, I I'm
working in several differentareas.
Speaker 7 (17:43):
I haven't left the profession.
So yes, I am.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Excellent.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
I feel left out.
I'm the only one that's stillworking.
I'm not retired, I guess yes.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
If you want to get busy, if you want to be busy,
retire Everybody that I knowthat's retired is busier working
as retired.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Yeah, but you're doing what you want.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
It's different.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Yeah, going out and teaching all the time You're
around people that want to bethere.
It's a whole different thingthan going into a seg unit and
putting up with inmates everyday.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
You know, todd and I I don't think Todd's had any
experience in corrections orworking in the jail, and neither
have I.
You know, I worked for asheriff's department for a while
and I booked them into jail andleft them there.
But that's about the extent.
What's the difference betweenlaw enforcement traditional law
(18:45):
enforcement, and the corrections?
And for those that I mean, weall know, but from your
perspective that you want to getout to the world, tell us a
little bit about the correctionsworld.
Speaker 7 (19:17):
The difference I call it between the jail or the
prison and the street is you'rewalking into an environment
outnumbered more than 101 inmany cases with only pepper
spray and handcuffs and a radio,and backup is close by.
You would say it's so close, butyet it's so far, because it
takes time to get through allthe channels to get there to
help you and back you up.
But you're dealing with thesame population that law
enforcement on the street dealwith.
But you're dealing with them upfront and personal, all day
(19:41):
long, all shift long, and you'reusing your interpersonal
communication skills.
Quite often At least I hope youare, because I would rather use
interpersonal communicationskills and avoid a confrontation
than have one.
But you're going to have them,no matter what they're going to
come about, and you will have touse one.
But you're going to have them,no matter what they're going to
come about, and you will have touse force.
(20:02):
But that's the difference.
You're living with them 12hours, 16 hours a day, uh, as
compared to uh picking them upoff the street and bringing them
in the book.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
I think the other difference is is how hidden we
are.
You know, as a police officeron the street, uh, not only do
you get to interact with, youknow, depending on what call you
show up on it, you might be thehero, you might be the bad guy.
Depends on who you're dealingwith, right?
You know, we're pretty much,even though we're not really the
bad guy, we're perceived thatway.
(20:35):
I mean, look at movies, look atTV, look at all that, and we're
hidden.
And we've done that toourselves in some aspects.
We've, uh, we've kept thatlittle society behind the walls,
quiet and hidden, becausethat's what the public wants,
that's what they pay us to do.
They don't want these people intheir backyard, they want us to
go take care of them and, uh,they don't want to know that
(20:57):
they're part of that justicesystem that took somebody's
freedom away and put them awayfor 50 years.
But the correctional officerinside isn't the one who took
the freedom away.
We're not the one who is doingthis, we're just enforcing the
mandate of the judges and thepublic, and but they don't want
to know that.
And so we get hidden in theresometimes and people forget that
(21:20):
we're in there dealing with it24, seven, 365 days a year.
There is no break, you know.
So I think that's the.
I think that's the thing that'smissing sometimes.
I'd love to see some.
You know, something besidesorange is the new black and and
all that junk on TV that hasnothing to do with what
corrections is.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
It's kind of like cop shows.
Nobody wants to sit there andwatch it in front of a computer
and type, for you know eighthours Right exactly.
You know I actually am veryfascinated by this conversation
because I think that bringingcorrections and dispatch parole
and probation into Aelita is,you know, actively recruiting
(22:08):
these other disciplines intoAelita is way past due, because
I think that we're all part oflaw enforcement.
We're all part of that, youpart of that group and that
association, and yet there aredifferences between what we do
and how we operate.
And, gary, I want to start withyou first.
(22:30):
One of the questions I have,looking over your bio and your
experience and listening to you,is on the investigation side.
You know, I was a officer, Iwas a sergeant detective, did a
lot of investigations, but onthe street side, of things you
(22:53):
know, from homicides andofficer-involved shootings to
burglaries and thefts, what iskind of the difference between
street-level streetinvestigations that you would
normally find detectives orpatrol officers involved in, and
what we find as far asinvestigations in a correctional
(23:15):
institution?
Speaker 7 (23:17):
Well, first of all I'd like to state that your
prisons and jails are smallcities within themselves and you
would think, okay, I've had ahomicide in the prison or I've
had an aggravated battery, it'sgoing to be very easy right to
find the person who did it.
But that's wrong.
It's a small city and all theincarcerated, the ones that want
(23:40):
to tell you information, arescared to give you information
and the others have the code ofsilence or keeping it quiet, and
these investigations canactually get complex.
That in my 12 years doinginvestigations in prisons we
worked often because a lot ofthese cases in the prisons
(24:06):
connect to the outside world.
You're drug smuggling, you'reweapon smuggling, things of this
nature, and I worked so manycases with the Florida
Department of Law Enforcementagents, even the FBI, and all
the local, depending on whatcounty I was in, because we
traveled from county to county.
(24:27):
I worked with the localsheriff's department, the police
department.
We all had to work together tobe stronger to solve prison
crimes.
So a lot of people don'trealize it's not just me, the
prison inspector, conducting aninvestigation from inside the
prison.
I need help, I need the postalinspector, I need the detective
(24:54):
on the street.
We have to connect a lot ofthese crimes from the prison to
the street and hopefully resultin ending the case with some
arrests not only within theprison but on the street, to
help stop the crimes that areoccurring.
So it's not just inside theprison that we invest in.
Everything seems to end upsomehow back on the street in
(25:15):
some way, shape or form.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Let's see.
That makes a lot of sensebecause I mean, as a as a
detective in Oregon, I had casesthat connected to correctional
institutions in Oregon and thenone as far away as a prison in
Tallahassee.
So you know, I ended up havingto fly to Tallahassee to do an
interview in a prison, so itmakes sense that that would be
(25:40):
the case.
So how do you bridge some ofthose divides?
Speaker 7 (25:47):
I always make contact with the local law enforcement
and I always felt that thewardens of the prisons should
make contact with all the locallaw enforcement and tell them
this is what we would do if anescape occurred.
We need to know if we can dosome scenarios together, train
(26:13):
together to learn how we're allgoing to react if there's an
escape.
You know there was a NewOrleans escape that was just
recent.
How is everybody going to reactin a 10-man escape like the one
that just occurred?
We need all agenciesfunctioning together as one to
be stronger.
But if we're not trainingtogether and not communicating
(26:34):
and not reaching out to theother agencies when we have an
escape from the prison, we'regoing to be pretty weak in what
we do if we don't train.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Brian did you?
Speaker 2 (26:51):
No, I'm curious to hear Michael's response to your
questions as well.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
Well, I think Gary's hit one thing on the head
Absolutely Is us workingtogether and part of that comes
to us.
You know it's inviting peoplein because you wouldn't think so
and I don't mean to upsetanybody, but I've ran into a lot
of police officers, a lot ofambulance and a lot of you know
firefighters who are nervous tocome inside the prison.
Well, you know, sometimes if wedo need help, let's say there's
(27:18):
a fire.
You know firefighters who arenervous to come inside the
prison.
Well, you know, sometimes if wedo need help, let's say there's
a fire.
You know, have you brought thatfire department in there ahead
of time?
Have you dealt?
You know, have you decidedwho's going to take what um area
during an escape?
And I think Carrie hits itabsolutely on the head.
Uh, a lot of what we deal within prison is gang related also,
(27:39):
and gangs are not set in onearea, they're spread out all
over the country.
They do that on purpose, justlike any other business would do
, and some of those things areactually controlled from inside
the prison.
We have the ability to givelocal law enforcement a lot of
information if they will justreach out and ask those guys get
on the telephones.
(27:59):
They're talking to theirgirlfriend.
I've heard them.
I have seen where they havetalked about murders.
Well, there they've talkedabout hey so-and-so's got this
hit.
Over here there was aStradivarius violin that had
been gone for years, that wastalked about on a phone call and
was found, you know.
So we have a ton of information.
We can't always follow up witheverything that we hear, but
(28:23):
definitely look towards yourlocal prison, jail, whatever,
and see what their monitoringcapabilities are, see what they
know.
Because we do, we gather a tonof information.
Go ahead.
Speaker 7 (28:38):
I'd like to point out probation, and parole is just
as important.
Oh, absolutely, absolutely theyhave pre-sentence investigation
, post-sentence investigationand a ton of knowledge that we
need to use not only for thestreet, but for the prison as
well.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
Yes, yep.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yes, Yep, community places, but we never went to the
local prison or the jail andgot involved with them and I
think, I think that time haspassed and hopefully most
agencies are are maybe doingthat.
And if not, what are somethings that you can encourage?
Police departments, sheriff'sdepartments, state patrol, to
(29:41):
you know say, hey, we, wewelcome you to come into these,
these jails and prisons, to getto know us and and and the
facility it's, it's not that bad.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
Sure, you know, corrections has this old
mentality and it is going awayin some ways, but they feel like
they're an outsider.
You know, for years we weren'tcalled law enforcement.
People refused to call us lawenforcement.
It wasn't until the last fewdecades that we even got called
officer.
You know, we were called guardor hack or you know those type
(30:17):
of terms.
Nobody even recognized us asthe job that we do.
And still today, if you go toCalifornia, you know those guys
go through a complete policeacademy.
They are, you know, officers,law enforcement officers.
But yet if you go to the stateof Missouri, those guys go
through a three-week academy andthey're not law enforcement
officers.
So as you go around the country, there's so many different
(30:40):
facets of how we're looked at.
But, um, you know, we are beingbrought in, we are being looked
at as law enforcement, now thatthe training that we have is
well above what it used to be.
Uh, you'll see that at ILETAalso.
But sometimes it's just, youknow, offering them a seat at
the table.
Um, I did really well when I wasworking in Springfield,
(31:02):
missouri, and I got with thelocal sheriff, I got with the
local police department, Italked to those trainers, we got
to where we'd go down to Hy-Veefor cashew chicken or, you know
, chinese food once a month, andwhen we would all get together
and they had resources I coulduse for my guys, I had resources
they could bring in you know, abreaching wall, their range,
(31:23):
and so we had these discussionsabout sharing training, sharing
resources and sometimes all ittakes.
I mean, when we got done withthat, I think when I left, there
was like 12 of us that metevery month from around the
county and stuff, and sosometimes it's just inviting
(31:44):
them to the table, letting themknow, you know, and you know
we're talking about Alita hereand absolutely don't take this
the wrong way.
I joined Alita in 2015, butnowhere on the membership
application or anything did itsay corrections, you know, and
so I always kind of kept thatquiet.
I knew that I was learning andI was reading the journal and I
didn't go the journal and Ididn't get to go to the
conference back then, but I readthe journals from some of the
top people around the country.
I was a big firearms instructorat the time and was just
(32:07):
gathering that information, butI kind of kept it quiet because
nobody really wanted to hearfrom the corrections guy.
A lot of that's changed andlast year we proved that a bunch
with bringing a lot of peoplein and talking about corrections
openly.
So I'm excited.
I think it is changing.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
And that kind of leads to a question that I also
had about corrections and youwere talking and you kind of
touched on it a little bit, butit's the leadership component
and you kind of touched on it alittle bit, but it's the
leadership component.
The leadership what is?
I don't know some of the uniquechallenges as leaders that you
(32:47):
find in corrections.
That maybe is unique tocorrections that you're not
really going to see on thestreet.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
Yeah, I talk oh, go ahead, go, gary.
No, you go ahead.
Speaker 6 (33:03):
I talk in my classes.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
Sorry, I talk in my classes to the officers and I
let them know this all the time.
I'll be quick here.
They are leaders.
In order to work in corrections, you have to be a leader.
You have to take a group ofinmates, you have to have
influence on them to get them todo what you need done.
And a lot of them don't realizethat the moment they step into
corrections that they're leaders.
(33:26):
We have great leaders incorrections.
That's why, when you take alook at our staff, you're going
to see them in t-ball coaches.
You're going to see themrunning the church organizations
You're going to.
We get asked to do that stuffbecause it's it's in us to go
grab 12 people and do something.
So we are great leaders andthat develops great leaders.
So that's one of the things Ithink I want to tell them and
(33:49):
let them know Go ahead, gary.
Speaker 7 (33:51):
No, Mike, you're.
You're so correct.
Our correctional officers areleaders.
They have to make so manyon-spot decisions daily without
a supervisor, and if they don'tmake that decision right, then
something bad could go wrong.
As far as midline supervisors,they have a unique job in
(34:15):
corrections.
You're not only supervisingcorrectional officers, but
you're also responsible forcivilian staff as well.
You need to make sure they'reaware of security issues.
You need to make sure that thecivilian staff are aware of what
they are allowed to do and notallowed to do, and then the
supervisors of corrections alsohave to worry about the inmate
(34:37):
population as well.
So you really, as a supervisor,a sergeant, a lieutenant or a
captain in corrections, youreally have a huge
responsibility.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
I don't think people understand the numbers.
You know as, uh, you know, andI work some big prisons, you
know, like Leavenworth andSpringfield and Thompson, on on
a shift as a Lieutenant, as ashift supervisor.
I would have anywhere between50 to 60 staff.
I'd have a thousand, 1300inmates.
I'd have half a dozenvolunteers inside the
(35:10):
institution.
I would have, uh, you know, thecooks and the recreation and
everybody maintenance workinglike that and I was in charge of
that shift, recreation andeverybody maintenance working
like that and I was in charge ofthat shift.
Those are big numbers for mostpeople when you think about
leadership.
Huge numbers, very huge.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
And and unique, right , I mean, that's a unique
challenge that, um, uh, you'renot going to see out on the
street because our, our span ofinfluence or span of control, is
intentionally kept smaller.
I mean, that's huge.
So that is one of those uniquechallenges.
(35:48):
Can you think of any otherthings that might be unique that
are specific to thatcorrectional setting when it
comes to leadership?
Speaker 7 (35:58):
specific to that correctional setting.
When it comes to leadership,well, when you get into upper
management and your PIO, yourcorrections leaders have to be
very careful, just like lawenforcement on the street, but
the community wants to knowanswers.
When you see something happenin a prison or jail, like the
escape, you have to be able toanswer the questions of the
(36:23):
community and the media, and Ithink for any criminal justice
agency that's a tough job.
So add that to the pile ofbeing a leader.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
Yeah, and I think when you take a look at the
expectations upon us for a lawenforcement officer, I think
even it's it's pretty linear,you're, you feel like you're
there to serve the public.
I mean, that's just, you'rethere to serve the public.
That's what you're taught,that's what you do as a
correctional officer.
You not only, and you and youhave conflicting um expectations
(36:59):
from the public and what theyexpect, because if you talk to
the public, you'll heareverything from you know, lock
them up forever to let them out.
Now you've got inmates on theinside, you know, who have their
own viewpoint of what's goingon and can be violent, can, can
cause problems, but yet, at thesame time, I've taken an oath to
(37:20):
protect them.
They are my charge, they arethe true reason I'm there.
And then, on top of that, Ihave to look at another set,
which is the staff members whoneed to be protected from these
violent inmates in here.
So you know I don't have thatlinear look at you know my job.
I have to look all thesedifferent directions at all the
(37:42):
same time and all the mastersI'm serving at the same time.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Wow Sounds like a challenge.
Speaker 4 (37:52):
Builds great leaders though.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Well it does, and um, I'm sure, um, once you go up
the food chain in corrections,there's some great opportunities
to be in charge of differentareas.
Let me ask you this how is thetraining ran in corrections?
(38:16):
Just because I'm an outsiderlooking in, I'm not sure how
that is done in corrections.
How would you go about doingtraining and selecting the
leaders for the trainers?
Speaker 7 (38:30):
Well, I'll tell you, what we always try to do here in
Florida is cross train.
So if I want to be a sergeant,I need to know my job, but I
need to know all the jobs.
So we always try to have ourofficers work in the dormitory,
give them a chance to work intransportation, because we have
(38:51):
to transport inmates to court,we have to transport inmates to
other prisons and other jails.
We wanted our officers to workin bookend when I was in jail.
We wanted them to work and wewould give them assignments.
In other words, hey, you're nota sergeant, but let me give you
an assignment.
(39:11):
By doing that, we're empoweringthe officer to do something
meaningful, but we're alsogiving that officer confidence
and letting them know we trustthem.
That's the way I feel when yougive them a job that's
meaningful and they completethat task successfully.
I've completed severalobstacles in leadership.
(39:32):
I've shown them that I trustthem.
I've given them a job to do.
I've recognized that they did agood job and thanked them.
But I've trained them at thesame time by having them do
crossover training.
And I think before you become asergeant in corrections, you
need to know the entire jobfield within the prison or the
(39:53):
jail.
Speaker 4 (39:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, one thing I want totalk about with Aelita and us
bringing corrections into thefold is the skills that are
needed.
Inside are very much the same,and a good trainer, a good law
enforcement trainer, is neededas a good correctional trainer,
and there's not that muchdifference.
If you're a good firearmstrainer, you know in law
(40:18):
enforcement you're a goodfirearms trainer in corrections,
and they can learn from eachother.
Um, I know that.
You know I was a little bit ofthe exception.
I think corrections doesn'talways do, um, objective driven
training.
Sometimes we just do it tocheck the box.
You know, like something goeswrong at the institution and we,
(40:38):
you know something ethically.
Well, we'll have an ethicsclass, but we'll talk about, uh,
you know, we'll talk aboutpolicy.
Well, lack of policy knowledgeprobably wasn't what, what drove
the problem, right?
Um, so we do a lot of thatcheck the box stuff and I,
pretty early in my career,decided well, and I'll tell you,
(40:58):
it was an ILETA member and Igot to talk to him this year for
the first time at theconference Jim Glennon, I paid
my own money, went outside theprison, went to a class.
I was the only correctionalofficer sitting there with a
bunch of cops and went to one ofhis classes.
He really opened my eyes towhat training could be.
I started modeling myself afterthe trainers that I was seeing
(41:24):
in law enforcement and spent alot of money, you know, every
year.
My wife was really good andshe'd send me, you know, here
you can go to this training, youcan go to this training.
So I'd pick something that wastotally away from work and, um,
it made me very valuable at work.
Um, one, because I had skillsand knowledge that I learned
from outside of what everybodyelse was learning.
(41:45):
And two, it gave me drive, youknow, and I worked every day to
become a good instructor and agood trainer.
And I know I'm talking a littlelong winded here, but here's,
here's, one of the mostimportant things I want to say
about correctional training.
You know, as a correctionalofficer, I don't get to go out
with my buddies to McDonald'sonce in a while.
(42:05):
I don't get to go do that stuff.
The only opportunity I have toget out of that housing unit or
that seg unit or whatever iswhen I get eight hours of
training and to be able to goout there and network and talk
and learn as a correctionaltrainer.
That is such a high level thatyou need to bring to class.
(42:26):
You can't give them ahalf-assed class.
They deserve so much morebecause that's all they're going
to get for another month or twoor three or six, right?
So if you've got them for eighthours and they get that
opportunity to come out thereand feel normal I'll put it that
way to feel normal, right?
It's so important that we takeour time and spend it
(42:49):
appropriately to help them dothat.
Speaker 7 (42:52):
And Mike, you bring such a valid point because we
can train and we can give theclasses, but what I think a lot
of young officers need to knowtoday is, in the end, in the
very end Mike brought up a supervalid point it is up to you,
the individual, to go out andseek that extra training you
(43:14):
need if you want to succeed.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Which kind of brings us to the question of what type
of person, what type ofpersonality, what type of
individual would be ideallysuited for that type of position
(43:38):
.
Speaker 4 (43:41):
Absolutely.
I think what we get in a badhabit of doing is picking the
person that's been there thelongest, and that's not always
necessarily the best trainer.
I want the person with passion.
I want the person who trulycares that, when people walk out
of their class, that they learnsomething, and so I think you
need to look at the individual.
(44:02):
What are they doing?
Do you see them mentoring inthe housing units?
Are they sitting in the corneror are they grabbing the rookie
and going come here, let me showyou how to do this.
That's the guy you want to makea trainer.
That's the guy you want toinvest the training money in.
Not necessarily the guy that'sgot the 25 years in and might
know more.
(44:23):
He may not know more when itcomes to teaching others.
He may just know more policy orhave more experience, and that
doesn't always translate to moretraining.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
So it sounds like pretty much the same
characteristics that we would belooking at for a police trainer
.
Speaker 4 (44:41):
Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And those are the people I wentto.
I was, you know, I was alwaysin awe of some of those guys out
there, um, in the, in thepolice departments, and and how
passionate they were.
You know whether it wasbreaching or whether it was
firearms or whatever it was.
And yeah, it was, and yeah.
Speaker 7 (45:02):
You have to have the uh, the officers with the
winning attitude, the patientofficer, and you have to have an
officer uh without negativity.
The negativity breedsnegativity and you can't have
anyone with a negativenegativity, uh, or grumpiness,
as I call.
I call it training, anotheroption.
(45:24):
You have to have, just as Mikedescribed, winning attitude,
passionate and wanting to trainsomeone, even if they make them
better than them and theysurpass them later in their
career, realizing I trained thatperson, so I did something
right.
They passed me, realizing Itrained that person, so I did
something right.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
They passed me.
You know we talk about goingout and seeking training, making
yourself a better correctionalofficer, a better trainer For
those that want to go seek thetraining.
What better way to be a trainerand train?
What would you tell acorrectional officer that's
considering submitting aproposal to teach at the ILETA
(46:06):
conference?
Great question by Joe.
Speaker 4 (46:11):
That is a great question.
I know that we're looking forsome great correctional classes
this year.
You know, my life is all aboutdoors and, and whenever you have
a door open it, open it andwalk through.
You're never going to knowwhat's on the other side.
And it seems you know.
When you look at putting in anILETA proposal, you're like, oh
(46:33):
my gosh, you know, am I reallyat this level?
Well, take a good look atyourself.
Make sure that you do know thesubject that you're going to
bring forward and then go shareit, and that's all it is.
It's nothing bigger than that.
You're not going to be on astage like Elvis.
You're going to be in a roomfull of people sharing your
knowledge, right?
And what more can you ask for,especially as you get older in
(46:56):
this business?
That's what you want to do,isn't it?
Speaker 7 (47:06):
do, isn't it?
And I've been communicatingwith Joe and I've got a few
people from corrections to signup for Aelita, and that's what
the question is.
They asked me I don't know ifI'm ready for that big of a
platform yet.
Well, this is what I tell them.
I say look, pretty much whatMike just described.
We break out in the individualclassroom.
What Mike just described.
We break out in the individualclassroom.
If you've done training at youragency, it's basically the same
(47:28):
thing.
You're meeting with your group,you're giving a topic that you
have knowledge of and you'reaware of and you're sharing
information.
There is no pressure on you,there is no one on you.
There is no one testing you.
We're all there to share ourresources, share our knowledge
and make each other better iswhat I tell them.
(47:49):
Don't have any fear, pleasebegin to give a class.
That's what I say.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
One of the things about Aelita that I love you're
not going to have people in yourclass that don't want to be in
your class.
You've only got people in yourclass that want to be in your
class.
So you know, it makes it apleasure to teach.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Everybody at Alita is a student.
Whether you're teaching orlearning, we're all students and
um, it's you know the the?
The best thing about Alita is apeer driven organization where
everybody's on the same level.
Nobody is better than anybodyelse, and we're, we're there to,
uh, um, gain some wisdom fromeach other, whether it's in a
(48:30):
classroom setting or in ahallway.
But, um, we would love to havemore correctional officers come
and and impart their wisdom onus, because I would come and
impart their wisdom on usbecause I would like to expand
my brain housing group here alittle bit and learn a little
bit more about the correctionside.
(48:51):
So that would be veryinteresting.
And so you know, going back tothis one slide, we have our
sponsor tonight is CorrectionalNews, and what better place to
go get some information aboutcorrection officers and the
industry than going to theCorrectional News website?
(49:12):
Both of you write there,writing great articles.
I've seen a couple of them.
Didn't have time to dive intoall of them but, michael, did I
read something that you writepoetry.
Speaker 4 (49:27):
I have written some poetry.
It was one of the things thatwhen you're sitting on midnight
shift and you know everybody'slocked down and you're doing
rounds, so I would take out apiece of paper and some of my
poetry is pretty dark.
But yeah, I've written poetry.
I've written a couple of books.
Next month I'll have threechildren's books coming out.
(49:49):
So yeah, I'm kind of stretchingmy whatever my skills a little
bit Nice.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
We've got a lot of Aelita members that have written
books and a lot that want towrite books.
What advice would you give tosomebody that would is looking
to write a book?
Speaker 4 (50:10):
Well, first come to.
I lead it next year because wehad a.
I think last year was the firsttime we had the author's tables
right and Gary and I were there, wayne South, uh, there was a
bunch of us there and that was agreat time to sit around and,
and you know, kind of displayour stuff.
Um, you know people get hung upwith writing things correctly.
You know you want it to be onthe page the first time,
(50:31):
correctly?
Uh, don't worry about that.
Get it put on the page.
You don't know the number ofpeople I've listened to over the
years.
Well, if, if only I had donethis, I'd have a book.
You got to do it.
Write it down.
You can edit it later.
People can help you edit.
I can help you edit it thesedays.
Just get it written downbecause your story probably is
(50:52):
important to somebody.
So, yeah, that's my advice.
Speaker 7 (50:57):
Yes, I tell people, write down, don't worry about
chapter order, chapter one,chapter two, chapter three.
Write down all your information, what you want to say and the
point you want to get across.
After you get your pointswritten and get everything
written down, you can decidelater what chapter order they're
(51:18):
going to go in.
They're going to go in you can.
We have.
There's editors out there thatdon't charge an arm and a leg.
If you're not great with uhediting and they will edit it uh
for you.
Uh, you can.
Now I have a traditionalpublisher.
Finally, after my first threebooks on amazon, that took my
(51:38):
fourth book.
It should come out, hopefullythis year.
Uh, but I self-publish onAmazon my first three books.
It's free, it doesn't cost youa penny.
So you don't have to pay an armand a leg to publish a book on
Amazon and they give you apretty reasonable percentage of
the royalty.
So I tell people don't be shy,get it out there, get your books
going.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
Absolutely.
I published a coloring book.
Does that count?
Speaker 4 (52:04):
Absolutely.
That takes imagination.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
What is it that Katie says about writing articles?
Katie says I'll give the ratedG version button seat words on
paper.
That's right.
Speaker 3 (52:20):
Which I guess is a perfect segue into the journal
article submissions being due onSeptember 10th right.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
September 10th Aelita journal submissions.
Get with any of the Aelitaeditors myself, gary Avery, Dan
Frazier and Kim Schlau and wewill help you anybody get
published in the Aelita Journal.
So if you haven't writtenanything and you want to get
(52:50):
published in an internationalpublication, we can help you do
that.
Write a powerful article on anytype of training subject.
We're there to help our membersany type of training subject.
Speaker 4 (53:05):
It's.
We're there to help our members.
So, yeah, I wrote my first onefor the Alita journal in 2015.
And one of the things I'll sayabout that I mean, if you're
trying to build your resume, ifyou're trying to be a
professional, and in whateverarea of training you are,
there's nothing better than tobe able to, you know, showcase.
You know I've been published inthis journal and absolutely
I've.
I've had a lot of help from theguys um there, but uh, yeah,
(53:27):
that was my first one was 2015.
It kind of set me on the paththere to doing many other
articles.
Speaker 3 (53:34):
Kind of get you.
You get a test of water, so tospeak.
If uh, um, if you're interestedin writing a book, that's a
good way to start small and gofrom there.
Speaker 4 (53:45):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 7 (53:48):
Exactly A lot of the information in your articles can
be used in your book, so you'realready writing down a lot of
the information you're going touse later.
Speaker 2 (53:58):
Well, hey, we're running up about an hour.
Well, hey, we're running upabout an hour.
We're going to jump into thenext couple of segments and then
we'll kind of come back, circleback with Gary and Michael and
for some final thoughts.
So give us just a few minutes.
Our next segment is theinstructor development segment.
We started this last month, Ibelieve, and this month we have
(54:22):
Joe Willis giving us somevaluable instructor tips.
So, joe, take it away.
Speaker 6 (54:36):
Are you reading Make it Stick right now with us?
That's the book of the monthfor Alita this month Make it
Stick the Science of SuccessfulLearning and we chose that book
because Aelita members recognizeit as one of the most
foundational books of the workwe're doing, and I want to talk
about not just what's in thatbook.
(54:58):
So many of us could do that.
Many are familiar with it andif you haven't read it, I cannot
recommend it strongly enough.
But I want to talk about therelevance to me and my challenge
to all of us as trainers, whichis to become conversant in the
topics we teach.
Now I am a deputy director ofAelita, but I'm also a coach and
(55:18):
personal trainer and this is anenvironment where I love to
come and work and I love toteach and train, and so I was
thinking about this as I'mrereading this book that I've
actually read a couple of times.
Its particular relevance to meright now is on the importance
of becoming conversant in thetopics we train.
(55:39):
To be conversant means to behabitually present in a subject,
and when we have a conversationwith people, we are in the same
place at the same time.
Oftentimes we see it withtrainers and instructors.
We're able to go grab a lessonplan, we're familiar with it and
we can present it.
But that is distinctlydifferent from those who are
(56:03):
effortfully conversant in asubject Can take that and have
that meaningful conversation ina classroom and facilitate a
discussion with other learners,themselves being among them.
And so I want to take us justreally quickly into the
practices in the book this monthof Make it Stick, specifically
(56:25):
with the concept of effortfulretrieval.
When we become conversant in asubject matter, we often have to
delve deep into spaces that wedon't necessarily remember all
of the details of, or we can'tnecessarily immediately recall
all of the aspects associatedwith it, and so there's the
(56:46):
requirement to challengeourselves, to go back, to guess
before Google, to try to recallthings, to do low stakes or no
stakes, testing even withourselves, and to be engaged in
a conversation with anotherperson while we're doing.
That is incredibly important.
Also, the space and variedenvironment in which we expose
(57:08):
ourselves to this subject matterand so to be able to
contextualize this topic in thisspace is different than that
same topic in this space, and itcreates those neural pathways
to more effectively andconversively recall that
information.
Also, the way in which weinterleave in conversations is
(57:30):
different.
Now, don't be one of thosepeople who I want to dabble this
topic into every conversation,but, where appropriate, find
ways of becoming conversant,habitually present with the
topics you teach in variedenvironments, and you'll find
that it's an incredible way tobecome more of an authority on
(57:52):
that subject, to be much morefamiliar with it and comfortable
in that learning environmentwhere somebody says to you hey,
I got a question and you'reready to answer it, or at least
acknowledge the fact that weboth have a little bit of
learning to do right now, solet's explore that.
So, anyway, I'm Joe Willis.
My challenge to all of us thismonth is to become more
conversant in the topics we'retrying.
Speaker 2 (58:29):
Thank you, Joe, for that powerful presentation Make
it stick.
Speaker 7 (58:33):
Have you guys read that book?
Speaker 2 (58:35):
No, but I will now, it's been a long time.
I read it several years ago.
But I'm going to have to.
I know I think I've got it onKindle, but I'm going to reread
that book, oh, kindle.
Speaker 3 (58:49):
Wow yeah, mine's all dog-eared and I've got torn
little sticky notes sticking outof it all over the place.
Crazy, it's a good one, highlyrecommended.
Speaker 2 (59:00):
Absolutely.
Hey, we're running up on the730 hour.
I wanted to kind of go aroundhere Todd any final questions.
Speaker 3 (59:10):
comments for Michael or Gary Guys, I want to say
thank you for for joining usthis evening.
I think bringing correctionalofficers into AelITA is long
overdue and I think that youguys are leading the charge, so
thank you very much for that.
And we talked about the journalarticle deadline coming up on
(59:35):
September 10th and theinstructor proposals being due
October 31st.
So any correctional officersthat are out there that you guys
know or that anybody in theaudience knows that would be
interested in being part of ourtribe of trainers you know.
Recruit them in and let's getthem actively involved in
(59:56):
helping us all learn.
Speaker 2 (59:58):
Sure, absolutely Echo what Todd said.
And one more important deadlineto consider December 1st is the
deadline for the AelitaScholarship application, or that
actually opens up on December1st, my bad.
So if there's anybody, what'sthat?
Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
I was a scholarship kid.
Oh, that's how I got started,oh, I got started.
Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
It's a.
It's a great opportunity forthose that have not been to a
conference, that are willing tocome in, and maybe a first time
correctional officer.
There's some scholarshipsavailable and that will open up
on December 1st.
So look for that coming out inemails, social media and and
future Aelita lives.
(01:00:42):
But, guys, I just want to thankyou for your time tonight that
you give to our Aelita membersand coming to the Aelita
conference, writing for thejournal and recruiting new
members for corrections to cometo Aelita.
I can't say that enough.
I'm happy to be discussingcorrectional issues with more
(01:01:08):
people in corrections.
But hey, Gary, I want to giveyou any final thoughts.
Words of wisdom.
Speaker 7 (01:01:15):
I want to thank you very much for having us on
tonight and allowing correctionsand and Probation of Parole to
be a part of ILITA, and I justwant to tell everyone out there
that the public trust is whatit's all about and protecting
the public, and we all need totrain together to share our
(01:01:37):
resources to help protect thepublic and earn trust and in the
end, we all meet at thecourthouse when everything's
finished.
We testify to judges and juriesand what we do needs to show
our professionalism and that weare all working together to
reach the same goal.
Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
Thank you, Gary, Michael.
Final words of wisdom.
Speaker 4 (01:02:06):
You know, the big topic these days is, uh,
recruitment and retention.
Um better way to recruit andthere's no better way to retain
the staff you have than to havethem well trained.
So, uh, you know, awell-trained officer knows his
job, feels comfortable when hewalks through the gate, is more
likely to stay there.
So invest in your training,invest in your trainers.
If you're out there listeningto this from, uh, from sheriffs
(01:02:27):
to jails, to prisons, whereverand there's no better place than
Aelita to to get them started,I'm telling you it is a huge um,
it's just like a dictionary orencyclopedia of trainers.
No matter what you want to know, there's somebody that's done a
little bit of it and Ithoroughly appreciate being
brought into the fold.
And if anybody's got anyquestions, feel free to reach
(01:02:50):
out to me and I'll I'll tell youhow to get going here.
Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
Appreciate it, guys, everybody.
I lead a family members.
Thank you for joining ustonight and we will see you in
one month for another episode ofAelita Live.
Have a great night, everybody.
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