134 - Revisiting The Genesis of Marvel on Disney Plus: WandaVision - The Project Infinite Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's the.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
Infinite Podcast.
Go tell your friends.
It's the Infinite Podcast.
My God, it never ends.
It's the Infinite Podcast withRobin Kork the Cube.

(00:21):
Hello everybody and welcome toanother episode of the Project
Infinite Podcast, the podcastcovering the infinite and
ever-expanding multiverse offandom For movies, comics, tv
shows, video games.
We got you covered.
I'm Rob.
I'm here with Court Court.
We are a week away from thepremiere of Agatha All Along,
which is a show that, as timegoes on, I've found myself
getting increasingly moreexcited for yeah, and I mean, at

(00:42):
the beginning, beginning Iwasn't really.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
It's not that I wasn't looking forward to the
show, I just you know, me and abunch of other people kind of
it's funny.
It was the same concept I hadfor loki.
I added a little bit forwandavision of the why, you know
where's the big hitters,where's the heavy hitters and
you know.
Let the project speak foritself.
And I think this project didgreat with that through the
trailers.
I think the first trailer Ikind of looked, I was like huh.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
And then the second trailer I was like, okay, you
know, first you had my curiosity, but now you have my attention
yeah, so we're gonna obviouslypreview that by talking about a
show that we did not get achance to talk about when we
launched this podcast, and thatis wandavision.
Um, I had not gone back to itsince it aired, so this was a
pleasure of a rewatch for me.

(01:27):
Yeah, it was.
It reminded me of a lot ofthings and it reminded me, like
you know, being able to takemyself out of the, like the
WandaVision hysteria which wehave to talk about as part of
the show, just kind of beingable to sit down with it and,
like, know what's happening andthen just watch all nine
episodes like in a row and nothave to wait for a week to week.
It was, it was a really greatrewatch.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, I mean I was pleasantly surprised of how
innovative this show is, and youknow, as innovative as it is
it's.
This show isn't overtlycomplicated as well, too.
This is a fun watch.
It's something that you knowoutside, looking in from the
rest of the MCU.
Post-endgame this is, you know,in the upper echelon of you
know, innovative nature andhaving fun of what you're doing,

(02:10):
but also, you know, having alot of heart.
I think this show has some ofthe best emotional moments in
the entire MCU.
There's a couple moments inhere that are must-talk-about
moments and a compelling villain, a reveal villain that was
pretty solid and again, thereveal of the villain is much
better without the hysteria of2020, watching this show yeah,
100 and um.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
So we're going to talk about wanda vision, but
first we do have some news uptop.
Unfortunately, we have a pairof passings that we have to
discuss.
Um, john cassidy so an x-men,mostly an x-men uh, comic book
artist, well-known comic bookartist, passed away at 52 over
there over the past of this week.
Um, you know, these types ofthings kind of tend to kind of

(02:51):
just fly under the radar, but Ithink it's important for us to
talk about because you know,comics is mostly a visual medium
, so you don't, you don't get,you know everything that we get
from comics without the artistsand john cassidy's art, um,
especially on his AstonishingX-Men stuff and his Captain
America stuff are, you know,legendary I mean legendary, is
the perfect way to sum it up.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
I mean that X-Men run that he was working on was, I
just mean, nothing short ofphenomenal.
I mean it was somehow thisalmost photorealistic, but also
it was so polished, it was sorefined, which I really enjoyed.
It just brought an extra levelof gravitas to the X-Men too.
And I mean at a time where theX-Men kind of needed, like a, a

(03:30):
hard stop, not reboot, but ahard stop Like this is post new
X-Men, you know new writer, newnew writer, new artist on the on
the book.
And I remember I don't rememberbecause I was, I think I was
seven when those books werecoming out, but you know, just
from reading about stories andlistening to stories about it,

(03:52):
those books were, you know,quote unquote delayed for a
little bit, but you know that'sif that's what we got out of the
late, delayed as long as youneed to, because that is one of
the most memorable I I I toldyou when I reread the
astonishing x-men I was likethis art is just otherworldly
great.
Maybe one day we'll talk aboutthat astonishing x-men run
because it is one of it's someof the best x-men you can find.
That doesn't come without johncassidy yeah, 100.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
I mean, you know, like I said, it kind of gets
lost in translation of howimportant the artist is to the
comic book world.
You know comic books as amedium in general are kind of
have been on the call andobviously since the advent of,
you know, pop, tv and movies andall that stuff and people have
kind of moved away with them.
We talked about in the past howcomics are, you know,

(04:37):
increasingly more inaccessibleand difficult to get a hold of.
But you know, I would, you know, encourage anyone to go.
You know, to get a hold of,yeah, you know I would, you know
, encourage anyone to go.
You know I think that's awesome.
You know we talked about beforeon the show, like how to, how
do I get into comics?
Sometimes the art is the way toget into them.
Like, you know, if you, if youfind something that catches your
eye, you find out who theartist is and kind of follow
their, their path, you know,instead of, instead of doing you

(04:58):
know a character or or a teamor a storyline, like sometimes
all you need is to get ahold ofan artist, right, and if you
enjoy their work, that's alsokind of a um, a through line
that you can use to get into anytype of comic.
So definitely encourage peopleto go out and try and get ahold
of those astonishing X-Mencomics, Um, because yeah, I mean
the art is is sensational.

(05:20):
Um, and then we lost a truetitan of the acting world.
You know, kind of crazy that wewere talking last week so much
about Darth Vader and then youknow, lo and behold, james Earl
Jones passes away at the age of93.
Egot winner, just incredibleperformer on the stage, on the

(05:45):
screen, tv movies, stage, acting, acting, you name it.
Um, james old jones has done itand done it at the utmost
highest level.
Obviously, um has, you know,some of his most well-known work
, obviously, the voice of darthvader in the star wars films,
mufasa and the lion king, bothin the animated uh movie and the
live quote-unquote live action,the cgi uh remake.
He, he came back as Mufasa.
The Sandlot fences obviously iswhat he got his Tony Awards for

(06:08):
on the stage and you know, justan absolute.
You know, like I said, a titanof acting.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
I mean he's one of the pillars of you know that
Hollywood stands upon from anacting lens.
I mean, imagine your voicealone can carry throughout
generations.
I mean that is just, that'sastronomical what he was able to
achieve, and I mean, from allaccounts, to just a wonderful
person on top of that.
And that's something we alwayslike to say.
You know.
You know, when any, anytime,anybody passes away, just you
know, we always love to look attheir character and use the

(06:37):
accounts of you know what peoplesaid.
I mean, they were at thepremiere for, I believe, for
Coppola's new movie yesterday ortwo days ago, and Giancarlo
Esposito was talking about howmuch of not only a friend but a
mentor he was to him and so manyother people.
So to lose somebody like that,I mean that's a world shocker,
like that was just anybody andeverybody was saying like, oh my
God, like Darth Vader or Mufasajust passed away, and like for

(06:58):
you to be so synonymous with, Imean absolutely monumentous
characters like that, it's justabsolutely monumentous
characters like that, it's just,it's something that's
incredible.
So, james Earl Jones, in termsof you know the legacy he's left
.
He will always be remembered, Idon't care if it's 10, 50, or
100 years from now.
James Earl Jones will foreverbe remembered.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, yeah, I mean just you know.
You could just go on his youknow Wikipedia, imdb and just
look at all the stuff he's beenin Coming to you know wikipedia,
imdb and just look at all thestuff he's been in um, coming to
america, field of dreams,sandlot, like I said he was,
he's really came into his own inin that, you know, late 70s
through through the 90s is kindof like his, his peak um, you

(07:36):
know, as a performer, where hebecame really synonymous with a
lot of things.
And yeah, like you said, hejust had he had one of those
voices, like I said.
You know I I posted the theLion King clip on my Instagram.
I said his voice was like theembodiment of poetry.
Whenever he spoke, you feltevery single word, yes, whether
it was as Vader, mufasa, and healso had a commanding presence

(08:00):
physically as a person in themovies that he was on screen for
, just this incredible boomingvoice that just exuded wisdom.
He just felt it.
Every time he spoke You're justlike, wow, this guy has such a
commanding presence of thescreen.
I was pleasantly surprised thathe came back as Vader for Rogue

(08:23):
One and he delivered someincredible lines in rogue one as
well.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Be careful not to choke on your aspirations
general yeah, it's so good.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
So obviously, you know, 93 years, um, that's about
as long a life as you could askfor.
Um accomplished so, so much inhis career and he will be dearly
, dearly missed, um.
So, yeah, I mean, we have totalk about that stuff up top.
So, moving on to some othernews, starting with some
Spider-Man news, that was kindof surprising.
So we got a.
We knew that John Watts was notgoing to be directing any

(08:54):
further Tom Holland Spider-Manmovies.
He was kind of, you know,moving on, which, I understand
you did a trilogy, keep itmoving, you know.
But Destin Daniel Cretton, whohas been, who was tied to
Avengers, kang Dynasty before itwas reworked, will be directing
this Tom Holland Spider-Man 4film, which I think is great.

(09:15):
You and I talk you know atlength about Shang-Chi.
It's one of our first episodes,yeah, and how much we enjoy that
movie.
Especially the action sequencesare spectacular.
We still don't know what thisSpider-Man 4 movie is going to
be.
There seems to be a clash ofideas between Marvel and Sony.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
This is how I think they're thinking about it.
I think Marvel's tea was getDaredevil born again done and
then kind of combo it how theywere doing with, you know, with
Captain America 2, where it'smore you know for Captain
America would be more worldlevel, but it will still be kind
of gritty and grounded.
I think they wanted that sameapproach for Spider man, so him
and Daredevil would kind of belike him and Sam and him and
Natasha in that movie and youstreet level it.

(09:58):
You have Fisk be the mainvillain and then you throw
another Spider man specificvillain in there and you can
kind of have.
You could have some fun withthat.
And again the whole.
We talked about it when wetalked about no way home.
No way home is its only trilogy, it's.
It's a trilogy origin storywrapped in one, which is insane.
So if you're kind of going totake that approach I think

(10:20):
that's marvel's side, I thinksony side was you just saw the
billion dollars that we justmade from no Way Home, let's do
that.
Why don't we just do that again?
And storytelling purposes.
You're like, didn't you just doall that work to make sure you
got them away, to make sure Tomgets his origin so he can be
where they were when theystarted.
So I'm not naive to notunderstand the capitalistic

(10:41):
nature of wanting to make money.
And again, if you put Andrewand Toby in a movie with him,
again it's going to make moneyand also to lend to that fact.
It's going to be in the secretwar era that this movie would
come out.
So it's kind of credible thatyou know it would make sense for
them to do something like this.
I just I don't know if you canpull that string again
narratively and people be in it,be so bulletproof as no way

(11:04):
home was.
I don't know if you can do thesame trick twice.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Yep, I would agree with that.
But I think, you know we'regoing to talk about the venom
trailer in a second, and I thinkit's it's possible that that
the Spider-Man four ends upbeing a cosmic kind of deal,
because we're going to talkabout the venom trailer in a
second.
But, um, at the same timethough, like you know, I think
destin daniel cretin did a greatjob of balancing the the

(11:29):
grounded with the surreal inshang chi um, obviously the
first.
You know, first three quarters,two thirds of that movie are
very grounded and kind oftouched in reality, um, and then
it obviously explodes into, youknow, the sequence at the end
of the movie, which is you.
I think it holds up for themost part.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
Yeah, I mean we talk about how forgiving that is, as
like the big CGI third act, andit's just because how tight the
action was and how good you knowSimu Liu and Tony Luang are
together on screen, how goodthey were together.
I think it's an interestingidea.
I mean we just said that and wedidn't even talk about daniel
destin cretin himself.
Like there's a reason theypicked him.
And I mean the thing I thinkabout is how much did they want

(12:08):
him for kang dynasty?
At the point, like it was to thepoint where it felt like he was
going to get kang dynasty andsecret ward, we were like, if
he's pulling that action andthey're pulling loveness to
write on top of that too, likewe might be in for like a full,
like for a treat on battle world, like this might be great.
So I can see why they were likecircled his name.
They were like we need to gethim somewhere.
We, if it can't be for kangdynasty, let's at least make

(12:30):
sure that he's there for, uh,let's just at least make sure
he's there for something.
And spider-man is, I mean, whata great pick.
Yeah, now here's the fear thatI have shang chi 2 will never
happen it definitely doesn'tfeel like it.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
Um, if this is, you know, I mean, you know they're
working on a weird timeline,like they could announce this
and then it's not going to comeout for five years, so who knows
?
Um, but yeah, that wasdefinitely like one of the red
flags to me is like, oh, whatdoes this mean for for shang chi
too?
Like I just feel, like you know, and it reminded me watching a
wanda vision, like you know, Iwish they didn't spend so much.

(13:04):
I mean, I understand thelogistics of it, but like,
spending so much time betweenwhen we're seeing these
characters is just a killer.
Yeah, and you know, like I said, wandavision is a perfect
example of that.
Like it felt like there was somemomentum here when the show
ended and then, you know, thisis the first you know speaking

(13:29):
for, you know, speaking ofagatha all along.
This is the first time we'reseeing agatha harkness in five
years, like four or five years,which is crazy, right?
Um, so, yeah, I mean, I totallyagree with that.
Um, I guess that's a perfectsegue into this.
This venom trailer, yeah, um,touted as the final venom
trailer.
Uh, for this, for this thirdmovie, and uh, they're doing,
they're doing it.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
They're doing it.
They actually listened to the.
He wasn't in the movie and then, obviously, as so many people
do, they listen to this podright here we kept calling them
cowards.
Yeah, we kept.
We said put no in the movie,cowards.
And then they said bet.
And then guess what noel's inthe movie?
Uh, do we know who's playingnoel?
There's rumors.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
There's rumors that it's norman reedus um awesome,
which I think is cool um I, Idon't, I don't think that was
like confirmed.
Confirmed like I don't thinkany official outlets have
confirmed it, but I guess peoplejust picked up on that that
Norman Reedus will be voicingNull.
I don't think he's going to bethe villain villain, which kind
of goes back to my Spider-Man 4point that I think they're going

(14:15):
to try and take a swing atdoing Spider-Man 4 as Spider-Man
and Venom teaming up.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
And they're going to do the Venom War on top of that.
Yeah, that would be a swing,that would be a monumental swing
, and I mean what you can try todo in the meantime is make sure
all your defenders are in placeso you have Daredevil Luke Cage
around, because I know JessicaJones and Punisher are going to
be there.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Last thing I saw about that was they want them
all back.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
Right, and I mean, what better avenue to get Iron
Fist back than in Shang-Chi 2?
Obviously, you're going to putJessica Jones.
Punisher are going to be inDaredevil, and then I don't know
where Luke Cage fits into anyof this.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
They probably just erase season two and just make
him Luke Cage again.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
Yeah, make him Luke Cage, just a guy in New York.
Maybe you don't even have toerase anything from Luke Cage,
but just have him be like.
That was a dumb decision.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
So, yeah, I mean, I don't know, I retweeted it on
Twitter and I said you know, Ilove this stupid, dumb trilogy.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
It's just because they know exactly what they're
doing.
And I think the first one theywere like they were finding it,
and then the second one was likeoh yeah, we know who we are
Like, we know what we're doing,we're not, we're not.
We understand that this is kindof dumb, but we're going to
have some fun.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
And then this one.
They were just like yeah, it'sexactly what we said.
Like, if you're going to keepmaking these increasingly
ridiculous, just put Noel in it.
And they're like all right,we're gonna do it.
Insane swing, yeah.
So uh, I, you know that's kindof exciting, you know?
Are we?
Are we being baited into theidea that no will probably be
like at the end of the movie andlike, or maybe even like in a

(15:52):
post-credit scene, probably like?
I think that's entirelypossible, but, um, you know,
venom does talk about it in thetrailer that that my creator is
coming for us.
So maybe no will be a biggerpart of the movie, but I don't
think he'll be like dealt withby the end of it.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, cause I mean for that I'm just trying to
think who else you get, unlessfor this multiversal thing
you're going to pull, you'regoing to.
You know what they can do.
If I don't want this Like, if Iwant to just be mix two, like
you can mix a Spider-Man and aDaredevil story, like you do.
You do Devil's Reign and youmix it with.

(16:29):
What can you mix it with forSpider-Man?
I mean, you can kind of haveDevil's Reign but remix it as
Spider-Man, as the maincharacter, with Daredevil you
know what I mean and that justbe Spider-Man 4.
It'll help you for DaredevilBorn again.
It'll help spider-man's case inthe mcu and then worry about
the multiverse stuff when youget to secret wars and you get
to um, to doomsday.

(16:49):
Like, don't worry about thatright now.
What I think they're gonna do isthey're gonna do if they want
to make this money, you're gonnado, you're gonna do
spider-verse in the fourth oneand you're gonna, instead of it,
be like the avengers and allthe teams fighting Noel.
You're going to do Spider-Verseand you're going to mix Venom
War and Spider-Verse into onestory.
That's what you could do for afourth movie.

(17:10):
That gets you Tom.
I mean, that gets you Tom,Andrew and Toby back together.
That gets you.
What you can do is you cansupersede a live-action Miles
Morales and put him in the moviebut still have that be a
different dimension version.
So by the time that actor getsinto the MCU he can just have a
fresh start once he gets intothe MCU.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
And it gives you the Spider-Man Venom stuff which I
think people have been clamoringfor for the last four years.
Yep gets you a bunch ofSpider-Man.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
It gets you different versions of all the Spider-Man,
a couple of different versionsof Venom.
You can have fun with it.
You them like.
You can have fun with it.
You have them fight noel.
It's a big new york city thingthat goes down in there.
I just hope it's not too manycooks in the kitchen when they
do something like.
That's my fear of like yeah,because I know they would say
yes, everybody would say yes,you like, I told, like, I said
like oh, you know who would begreat to be the live action

(17:58):
miles morales?
The kid from from um, fromcobra kai, that plays kenny.
I mean, he already has thefighting prowess for it.
I feel like he would be.
I think he's younger too.
I think he's either like 17 or18, something like that.
Like he's perfect age range forit.
Like that would be a good pickas well.
So I don't know, I just I'mreal hesitant on them on this,

(18:20):
you know, of course, doing thesame like you can have a really
cool contained like spider-manand daredevil verse fisk type
type movie.
Throw a couple other, thedefenders in there.
Just, you know, have this be aspider-man story.
Have a meet gwen, gwen, stacy.
Have a meet harry, like havesome fun, but does not seem like
the route they want to go onsony's, and I have a feeling

(18:41):
this is a sony thing, of courseyeah, it's always.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
It's always going to be.
And then the last bit of newswe got we talked last week about
some Green Lantern potentialcasting.
We have now learned that bothJosh Brolin and Matthew
McConaughey have taken theirnames out of the running.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
I don't think Ewan McGregor is going to do it
either.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
No, probably not.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
There's one person you give the call to, I think,
and his name has been aroundGreen Lantern for probably the
last 15 years.
It's Chris Pine.
I mean, I feel like at thispoint in his career he's become
so chiseled as an actor but healso knows how to have a lot of
fun with whatever project.
He's very adaptive to whateverthe project commands.
But he also I mean peopleforget Chris Pine was, I mean,

(19:23):
one of the absolute top dogs inHollywood for years, like when I
was a kid, I mean after theStar Trek trilogy.
Like he was like one of themainstays, the Wonder Woman
movies, like he was a must havein Hollywood.
Like you get an older version,if you want to do that older
version, why not get the guythat people were clamoring to
play Hal Jordan in the firstplace?

(19:43):
And then again you throw if whoyou really sold me on that John
, john Boyega pick from lastweek to like Chris Pine and John
Boyega is Hal and John who, andlike a true detective setting
and unraveling like a conspiracy, a most like not a universal
conspiracy would be all types ofsick.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree.
I think I think Chris Pine,that's a great pick and I think
he's at a point in his careerwhere he would do it.
I mean, he's doing, you know,he's just been doing things.
He did that Dungeons Dragonsmovie.
He's just been doing stuff.
So I feel like he would throwhis hat back into a DC thing.

(20:23):
Obviously he was in WonderWoman, but yeah, yeah, I think
he could absolutely be haljordan.
I think that that totally works.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
Um, short of that, uh , let's talk about wanda vision
yeah, uh, let's talk some somepreliminaries and some, yeah,
prerequisites yeah, some some,just some backstory on this show
.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
So obviously this was the advent of disney, plus um
one of the flagships.
Yeah, it was like it was, yeah,it was one of the advents of
Marvel Studios being like, hey,we got Disney Plus coming and
we're going to do basicallyMarvel shows like these eight
episode miniseries based aroundthese characters that you know
and love, yada, yada.

(20:58):
And I think you know they set acertain level of expectation.
We, as fans, had certain levelsof expectation that, oh, these
are going to be monumentalevents, these can't-miss things.
And then they shuffled somethings around, obviously with
the pandemic, so thatWandaVision was going to be the
first and it was always the onethat people had the most

(21:22):
skepticism and questions about,because it was that original
core of Disney Plusannouncements.
Wandavision, falcon and theWinter Soldier, loki, hawkeye
were all kind of Because, funnyenough, avengers Endgame has
that end sequence that basicallysets up all these shows.
They spend a lot of the last20-25 minutes of the movie doing

(21:47):
these isolated scenes withHawkeye, with Bucky and Sam Sam
getting the shield Right.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
Loki, earlier in the movie, gets the Tesseract.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yep and Abscond's.
You're like, okay, that's likethe setup for the Loki show.
And then Wanda gets obviouslyher big, kind of big comeback
right at the end of avengersendgame.
That that sets all these showsup, right, um.
And then so one division.
They were like, okay, like it'sgonna be like a sitcom homage.
And we're like, okay, you'reright, that's interesting.
Yep, um, they bring on jackshaffer, who was working on

(22:19):
black widow at the time, to bekind of like the showrunner
slash, uh, one of the leadwriters, right, uh, she has
since moved on to be the theshowrunner, uh, for agatha all
along.
So, so she's continued her workwith marvel, um.
And they bring on matt shackman.
He directs all nine episodes ofthese, of this show, um, and he
has since gone on to be thedirector of fantastic four.

(22:40):
Um, and man, I watched thisshow again and I'm like that
makes total sense.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
It's the mystique that's gone around the 2020 era
when this show was coming out.
Now that that mystique is gone,this is just a dang good show.
It was such a fun, great,intricate rewatch that I had
doing this too, and I foundmyself so glued to this as well,
too.
And again, just watching theseone after another after another,
I was like I'm seriously gluedand intrigued to everything

(23:08):
that's going on, and I meanShackman's direction is so it's
tight, especially and especiallywhen you're going to go.
I hate to use the word gimmick,but when you're going to go
gimmick for doing the sitcom,you have to have it dialed like
you, and you have to leave roomfor like that it doesn't feel
like it's just the sitcoms thatyou're running through, like you
have to still add the littledisconnected universe sprinkle

(23:31):
on top of it too, because if youdon't, then you're gonna lose
people of like the why, like,why am I here?
And this show has such anominous nature on top of it too.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
That's what really sells it right from the first
episode the first episode doesit and I, I think, you know, oh,
it's camera moving.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
I have to talk about that.
Continue.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
I gotta talk about that no, yeah, going back to all
this stuff of like not knowingreally what to expect or who to
expect, you know, out of all thedisney plus shows, I think the
show does the best job ofintegrating like the known
universe characters into it.
Um, when you talk about JimmyWoo and Darcy, I think out of
every show that's tried tointegrate like previous

(24:10):
characters like this one feltthe most well-integrated, where
you're like oh yeah, it kind ofmakes sense that these two
characters are there and wouldbe kind of together, like that
was always like kind of what Ialways wanted from these Disney
Plus shows.
Like if you're going to throw,you know, if you're going to
throw X random character intothe show, it should feel like a
natural kind of meeting point ofwhy is Jimmy Woo here?

(24:33):
Oh well, he's an FBI agentinvestigating missing persons.
They bring in Darcy for theastrophysics nature of it.
You're like, yeah, this makessense.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
So I thought it felt very comic book-y.
Yes, when characters just showup and you're like, well, that
makes sense, that this character, like this B or C character
standing in front of me rightnow.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
Yeah, Instead of just like hey, here's this character
.
You know what I mean, I think.
I think this show did probablythe best job of it.
Um, which was cool, and thenWe'll talk about it as we kind
of go through the episodes.
But, like man, just thegroundswell of theorizing and
analyzation that went into thisshow went to a level that I

(25:13):
don't think even they expected.
Guilty, Guilty.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
Guilty, guilty, guilty times a million Boy.
I wish we would have had thatpodcast week in, week out
watching this show, because,guilty on the Reed Richards,
guilty on the Mephisto, everysingle I was in.
I was locked in Week in, weekout.
But again, this show had powerto it.
This show had I mean, it's kindof an allegory for Wanda
herself Like this show had somehidden power to it.

(25:38):
Like week in, week out in themiddle of the pandemic, like
everybody was home.
Like week out in the middle ofthe pandemic, like everybody was
home.
Like, oh boy, weekend everybodywas glued, everybody had
theories.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
Week like this show probably credits a lot of these
breakdown channels for likemillions of millions of
subscribers and it goes, youknow, kind of goes to the point
of the writing, in the directionwhere, like even the first
three episodes, which are likethe sitcom episodes essentially,
um, do these little things thatkind of set you up for like

(26:09):
what is going on here?

Speaker 1 (26:11):
yeah, because what's great is what jackman does is
like he's.
Let's just take the firstepisode, for example, because
there's a little.
There's a little switch.
You have your 50s sitcom natureto it.
It's going good, and then it'swhen vision's boss starts
choking on his food, and thenthat's that camera switch, the
lighting switches a little bitand you're like you.

(26:32):
It's almost in a weird way, asif you feel like you're also
there, like your sentience alsokicked up, just as wand is
kicked up for a second of likewait, something's, something's
not right, like somethingovertly is not right.
It's like I said, the ominousnature of this show is one of
the biggest driving forces forit yeah, that's that's.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
I mean that's designed to be like the kind of
plot point of the of the firstepisode that makes you think
like something's wrong here.
And it's when you know debbiejoe rup's character is
repeatedly going.
You know she starts it's first.
It starts on like a jovial,like joking, like stop it, stop
it, you know.
But then she gets increasinglymore serious and then you know,
with the hindsight of knowingwhat happens in the show, like

(27:10):
you realize that she's sayingstop it to wanda, right, because
wanda has trapped all thesepeople in this, in this, you
know, in this place.
So that's again.
That's something like seeingthat again.
Like I didn't, obviously youwouldn't pick up on, you know,
watching it the first time ornot knowing.
But like with the hindsight oflike what unfolds, like you
realize like the seeds wereplanted very early I mean I

(27:33):
texted you.
Like the second episode, whenthey do the magic show, like the
episode is surrounded, you know, by a literal mystery box.
It's like their big, their bigfinal trick is a literal mystery
box is like their big, theirbig final trick is a literal
mystery box, right.
So like the show, you know itputs it out there for you that,
like you know, we want you tokind of speculate and obviously

(27:53):
I mean I don't think they theyexpected that level.
I mean the mephisto stuff Ithink made a lot of sense right.
Um, and I think you know it'svery easy to to pick, uh,
catherine Han's character askind of nefarious, like from the
get-go Right.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
But not overtly the main villain of this.
I think that's.
I feel like that was probablytheir point of they wanted it to
feel like there was somethingbigger at play.
She was just a vessel forwhatever the biggest, the
biggest bad there was and thebest part about this, the show
and one of the best best themesis was there there's, wanda was
the biggest bad out of everybody.
That's there's.

(28:31):
There is no villain to thisshow.
Like, obviously, agatha haspersonal gain that she wants,
but she, she even says in thelast episode she's like I, I
didn't, I'm not doing this toanybody, I just cut their
strings like I, I didn't do this.
You're doing this to them andif you're the hero, you say, let
him go.
You can let him go right now ifyou want to, but you're not,
you're not gonna let him go.
So because you're grieving,because you're grieving.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
That is the you know what.
What is the central theme ofthis entire show is is what this
is.
This is a show about wandaprocessing her grief, um, which
is you, you know, tonally likejust not an insane swing to take
for a Marvel property, but likethis was one of the most
introspective projects they'veever done.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
Yeah, I mean this one really started my I said it the
big theme of Phase 4, it waslegacy and loss.
So I mean you want to talkabout a project that has both is
, you know, is Black Panther,Wakanda, forever has both.
It has legacy and loss.
This project has loss, likethat was the big piece of it and
it's such a great way to followup Endgame because it is Like

(29:37):
we did lose all these charactersand it's not like we lost, you
know, some of the characters.
Like we didn't lose Hawkeye,hulk, we didn't lose Thor, but
it was like it's never gonna bethere again.
That's why it's so funnythinking about the end of
Deadpool 3, like the, the sizzlereel from Fox looking outside
in, like we're never gonna havethat again because we might have
something different, we mighthave something equally as cool

(29:57):
who knows but we're never gonnahave that again.
You know what I mean like that,that nostalgic feel of like
these are our Avengers.
You know what I mean.
We'll never have that.
So it is a little bit of a lossthat way.
But there's legacy that comeswith loss.
It's like what's next and youknow this project, like I said,
this is based on loss, like youknow how much loss can a person
take before they take somecontrol over it.

(30:18):
And Wanda, unfortunately youknow we talked about tragic
characters in the MCU like herand Thor have seen the most loss
out of anybody they have never.
I mean, Wanda lost her parents,then she lost her brother, then
she loses her sons and the loveof her life and her country.
On top of that, how much doesshe need to suffer?

Speaker 2 (30:38):
Yeah, and I think that's the perfect throughline.
I mean we can just kind of talkabout the show, but I guess we
could just blanket over thefirst three episodes just at in
a bunch, um, because these areobviously the sitcom sitcom
episodes which I mean just froma technical standpoint they
nailed the aesthetic of allthese eras of sitcoms.
I mean, I think that kind ofgoes lost, you know, in the

(30:58):
praise of this show is like theyhad to nail this right, like
they had to nail this, like ifthey're gonna do the sitcom
homage stuff, like they have tonail it, yep.
And they had to nail this.
Like if they're gonna do thesitcom homage stuff, like they
have to nail it yep.
And they did right, they did.
Um, what's your favorite out ofthese three?

Speaker 1 (31:11):
I think it's the first one still first one's
tight like as far as like as faras just like the sitcom
elements itself.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
Um, you can tell elizabeth olsen is right at home
doing this stuff.
Yeah, with the sitcom stuff,like she crushes all of these
first three episodes in playingthose variety you know of, of
type of kind of like the homageto like lucy and, and you know,
bewitched like she's, she'snailing just the mannerisms and

(31:39):
the everything and I'll doubledown on that point.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
And it's you know I'll spoil when we tell our our
favorites of this whole season.
I point, and it's you know I'llspoil when we tell our our
favorites of this whole season.
I mean, I think it's crazy.
You know, and this is going tosound and send, the best
performance in my opinion wasPaul Bettany.
I mean you want to talk aboutso quick, to like.
I think his quickness towhatever and his quickness and
his adaptive nature is great,and I nature is great and I mean

(32:06):
, even when he finds out thatthis isn't real, his cell to
love is still, is still there,it's still apparent.
So I think he is absolutelyphenomenal and, like I said,
he's quick, his humor is quickoh, the yakety yak sequence
still makes me laugh, right,because he just breaks it out
right.
This is great.
He's somebody that that demandspresence.
I don't know if it's his voice,I don't know if it's his
mannerisms, I don't know if it'shis mannerisms, but he's just
phenomenal.
This whole series, the firstthree, I think it's when he's

(32:28):
quite at his best.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
Yeah, like I said, it's brilliant, like you said,
technically, how the show is setup.
They used a real studioaudience too for these first
three episodes with the sitcomhomages.
Setting it, making it black andwhite obviously pays dividends.

(32:51):
When they bleed the color intocertain moments, which was also
really great with the drone, andwhen what's her name, dottie?
When she cuts her hand and theblood is in color.
Great, it's all really great,the commercials.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Oh, phenomenal.
I guess I'll.
I don't know if I want to talkbecause one of the new
categories is favorite theorythat surrounds the project, so
maybe I don't know if you wantto wait or talk about it now.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
We can talk about it now.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
We can talk about it now, okay, because my favorite
theory because I was going toask you when we do our
categories, what's your favoritetheory that came from the show.
My favorite one, weirdly enough, is that the two characters
from all the commercials wereher actual parents.
That's why they kept showing upin all of the commercials is
because that's how she remembersthem.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
I didn't even put that together.
I commercials is because that'show she remembers them.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
I didn't even put that together, I was so focused
on especially the woman thatplayed that would have, if this
theory was right, would haveplayed her mother.
There was just some eeriesimilarity to her that I
couldn't, that.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
I just couldn't explain I was so focused on the,
the branding right, and how ittethered to her grief again,
like the first episode, has the,the stark industry's toaster
right, which obviously those arethe missiles that killed her
family.
The Strucker watches, whichwere obviously because she was
you know, the Strucker watch,plus the Hydra soaked bath

(34:12):
powder invokes her captivity inHydra.
There was the Lagos papertowels, which obviously is
another source of her grief wasthe incident in Lagos in Civil
War.
Then there was the Yo Magicyogurt, which, as the show goes
on, you realize that there'scertain things starting to bleed

(34:33):
into the stuff.
The Yo Magic thing I took thatas Agatha's mission Interesting.
The first time we see her inthe flashback she's siphoning
the magic from the rest of thesewitches.
That's interesting and thenthat's ultimately what she's
trying to do with Wanda issiphon the chaos magic.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
I took it a little bit more.
As for the yo magic stuff, Itook it a little bit more as
like the fact that she justthought that she just was like
affected by the, by the mindstone Not that the fact that she
actually was a witch so likethe more that she went on
throughout the season and likethat bleeds right into seven and
eight.
Especially once you get eightyou realize like no, no, you're

(35:13):
actually a witch, you're notjust like that's why pietro got
like physical.
You still got physical power,but you still would have been a
witch without the telekinesisand the tele in the telepathy.
You still would have been awitch on top of that yeah, and
then the um, the nexus,anti-depressions, like that that
might have been the best swing,the best retro.
I don't know if it was aretroactive swing that they just

(35:34):
incorporated.
I don't know if they maybefeige knew all along that they
were going to use anchor beings.
I don't know.
But you know they say Iremember I text you immediately.
I was like, did they just saythe word anchor in there when
they talked about it?
You know it still lends to thefact that wanda could still be
the anchor being for the 616yeah, I and this show, just
watching the show again, justreminded me like, just like.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Obviously we talk about like loki, like being like
a main character, but like thisreminded me that like she's,
she's the most you knowdimensional character that they
they still have right in their,in their chamber, like right,
and she's got such a presenceand such, just everything about
her is so like magnetic,especially when she, at the end,
when she comes into her own asthe scarlet witch and she gets

(36:14):
the outfit, you're like this islike, this is the, this is the
main character.
Like she's, she knows she's.
She's everything that you canwant in a main character for
like a universe.
Um, which kind of goes back tomy point about like them
spending so much time keepingthese characters off the screen,
which again, I understandlogistically, but like man, if
they could have struck while theiron was hot and kind of gotten

(36:36):
multiverse of madness, likecooking, like right after this,
well did you see what?

Speaker 1 (36:42):
did you see what the, the plot for multiverse of
madness, was supposed to be,that it was supposed to be more
of like a.
You know wanda wasn't supposedto be so overtly a bad, a bad
guy, but you know strange in her, would have been together in
her grief and you know theywould have fought nightmare in
this movie.
You know, with Scott Derrick'sI mean, we talked about how we

(37:05):
think that movie is underratedand the biggest sin on that
movie is the multiversal likethe, the multiversal MCU things
or the the, the multiversal likeMCM things, like the actual Sam
bring me directed.
You know, things in that moviewe think are the best parts of
that movie.
But I would have still loved tosee, especially there there's
like a subtleness to the firstdoctor strange movie.

(37:25):
I really appreciate there'sthere's.
I don't know if hominess is theword I'm looking for, but
there's something familiar aboutthat first Doctor Strange movie
.
It's a little bit more intimatein my opinion.
So I would have loved to seewhat Derrickson, in his own
corner of horror which he's,which he's known for, get a
swing with nightmare with Wandafrom a little bit more of like a
heroic perspective.
That could have been influenced.
I still would have liked to seethat.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yeah, me too.
And then obviously, like wetalked about in these first
three episodes, there's thesethese little things that let you
know, obviously with with MrHeart choking.
The second episode has thebeekeeper coming out of the
manhole.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
It has the, it has the drone or it has the little
little helicopter toy that's incolor.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
Yeah, the drone and the uh, the voice on the radio,
which we obviously find out isJimmy Woo's character.
When we do that perspective forepisode four, um, but episode
three is, or episode two is, theone with the beekeeper.
When wanda, you see that she isin control of this, when, when
she rewinds, you know thesequence to make it so that they

(38:22):
don't go outside right and seethe beekeeper and then episode
three.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
I mean episode three is where it really starts to the
wall comes down.
That's my favorite of thesethree because it gets real
ominous from episode three.
It gets really weird, it getsreally spooky.
Yeah, her cutting through awall, Yep, I mean it's just like
the stork that's there and justkeeps popping up.
I mean the theories that werejust running around that.
Itself that episode did areally good job of cutting the

(38:46):
music out at really good pointsto be like what the heck is
going on.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
We get the twins, yep um showing up, we get, and then
we get.
Obviously we get monicaproperly introduces she's
geraldine at the time.
But wanda picks her out whengeraldine says your brother was
killed by ultron and you're likehuh, what?
You're like wait a second here.
And then wanda does the samething.
She's like what did you say?

Speaker 1 (39:09):
and then I mean another bit.
You get a, you get the visionjump scare where, yeah, dead
vision shows up.
You're like what?
Then she, like she looks for asecond and then vision starts to
piece together.
That something's not you know,something's not right and
everybody's compelling parts ofthe inside and then everybody on
planet earth was like, did mydisney plus just freeze?
Did this just restart?
And then it's like no, like shejust like rewrote that piece of

(39:33):
the episode to get him happyagain about just having twins.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
Not that something's, something is very, very off yep
, and then monica gets blastedthrough the wall and you're like
, oh, okay this is a marvelproject, yeah yeah, but again
like to my point about like thisshow, you know doing a great.
The show also does a great jobof introducing something new in
the form of Monica Rambeau.
I think the way she'sintroduced in the show and the
way they weave in those CaptainMarvel elements are not overdone

(40:00):
and I think they're handledjust right to the point where
you're like there's more herewith this character and we're
going to explore that anothertime and again.
Unfortunately, it just took waytoo long to see Monica again,
to the point she shows up in theMarvels and I'm like cool, like
thank you, like Monica's back,like awesome, this is like this
is great, but like it had justbeen way too long.

(40:20):
Yeah, like I wish.
I wish we could have gottenCaptain Marvel to a little bit
sooner again.
I mean, 2022 is when you weshowed up that movie because we
again, and then we go to episodefour where we get the, you know
, basically like the backdropepisode of like here's what's
happening outside of Westviewand it's like previously on the
MCU.
Yeah, I think the episode isliterally called we Interrupt

(40:40):
the Program Right, so like, andwe get Monica returning from the
snap and oh what an opening,what an opening.
It's still the.
It's the best iteration of ofpostnap returning trauma that I
think the MCU's ever done RightLike no Way Home does it and
it's not handled.

Speaker 1 (40:59):
Well, it's for comedic purposes, yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
Whereas, like this, you're like, and I think,
setting it in a hospital.

Speaker 1 (41:04):
Yeah, yep, yep, it's the best place to put it,
because it's like what the heckis going on?
Like, is this real?
Like am I dreaming?
Like is this a real thing?
That's going on.
And she's like asking people.
He's like no, I got, I gottacall my wife.
Do you have a phone?
I gotta call my wife.
Like, and then, because it'sthe craig mazen theory, when you
have your character and youalready kicked them down, push
them down the stairs one lasttime just to really drive it

(41:26):
home, because she comes back andeverything's awry.
And then she's just like okay,well, where's my mom?
And you know, she finally findsthe nurse that was taking care
of her mom and she says your momdied three years ago.
And she's just like no, no, no,I was just in there.
And she's like no, you've beengone for five years, like your
mom died three years ago.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
And it's that through line that you know that
WandaVision had that no Way Homehad that, black Widow had with
Yelena, like they did not thinkthey were gone long, right, Like
I think even Spider-Man saysthat he felt like he was gone
for like 20 minutes or whateverhe says in Endgame, like that's
how you like that puts the snapin perspective, like that little

(42:04):
line where Monica's like no, Ijust nodded out for like 20
minutes.
Like no, no, no, five yearslike black widow, does a really
nice job of it with yelena.
Like they do the, they do itreally quick when she gets
snapped in the bathroom and thenimmediately returns oh, and
hawkeye right, yep oh yeah, yeah, I don't know why, I thought it
was in black widow, but, um,they show that and you're like
jesus christ, like and this doesa really nice job of it um,

(42:25):
with monica, and it's really,really like that, like you said,
it's like that double gut punch.
Like you know, she, she gotsnapped, lost five years of her
life and then she finds out hermom died on top of it, right, um
, it's, it's crazy.
And then she shows up at thesword base.
We're introduced to tylerhayward.
Um, just a proper jerk, yeah,just a proper government

(42:46):
overreach asshole.
That's the worst that this showneeded, right, um, especially
when you get to like the Visionkind of plot point.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
You know what's funny ?
I think that his character issupposed to serve purpose more
for Vision than Wanda.
It's humanity.
Look how much this android hasmore humanity than this actual
human being has.
This lack of humanity.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
And it ties back to a bunch of Age of Ultron stuff as
it relates to Vision, some ofthe Civil War stuff with him,
where he's kind of just, he'skind of except for wanda like
even the avengers and even tonykind of just saw him as a weapon
.
Yep, like when he blasts uh,you know, when he accidentally
blasts roads out of the sky incivil war tony's like what, like

(43:30):
what was that?
Like I didn't think you could.
When vision goes, I gotdistracted.
Tony goes, I didn't think youcould get distracted.
Like what would you be?
Like what do you mean?
So I think you know wanda wasreally the only.
It's.
Their relationship is amazingbecause, like they, really, even
though she was human, he was anandroid, they both saw each
other as human right and didn'tsee each other as monsters.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
They didn't see each other and that's the piece.
Yeah, yeah, it's that.
They did not see each other aswho, who man made them to be.
They did not see each other asthat and I think hayward is just
a great through line of thatwhere you know we get later on
and I think it's episode evenhis acting, I think, is
purposely kind of robotic, likeit's almost purposely like very
like you know, I will like, Iwill make sure that we get the

(44:11):
vision so I can get credit forthis, because this is what my
programming is in my head.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
Yeah, and then we're.
You know, he sends her on thismissing persons case to Westview
.
We're introduced to Jimmy Wooagain, which I said was great.
He's excellently deployed inthe show.
Darcy comes back into the foldand I'm just like this is
perfect as far as tonallybringing characters in that
we've seen before.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
Well, it's your B-plot.
Your B-plot is fun because youhave Monica, jimmy and Darcy all
together kind of trying tounravel the mystery of what is
Westview.
And then it's three greatfronts, because it's a person
who's coming into their own astheir hero themselves.
It's a scientific view, andthen it's a scientific view and
then it's like a you know like aprotection view from like a,
like a you know from an officerstandpoint yep um, darcy figures

(44:56):
it out.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
She figures out that that the sitcom is happening
inside of westview.
Monica goes in and then we getcaught up to speed.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
She's thrown through the wall and also it does a good
job of slowly bringing aboutwhat the scarlet witch is.
And like how powerful andthat's a big part of the show is
like, how, like, how powerful,because they all keep saying it.
Like, because I don't know, Idon't know if somebody did like
an Avengers breakdown, likemaybe the Avengers released a
video in like 2018, like this isthe.
This is your squad like it'slike a pre-NFL team, like first

(45:25):
look at the team for this season, like because apparently
everybody knows, like they knowtheir power levels, they know
what they get to.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
One of them says Jimmy or Darcy says, Scarlet
Witch almost killed Thanos byherself.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
I'm like, how do you know that I'm telling you Until
Captain Marvel showed up.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
I'm like what was this broadcast on Fox?

Speaker 1 (45:46):
It might have been, who knows?

Speaker 2 (45:48):
Was Joe Buck and Troy Aikman calling the action?

Speaker 1 (45:52):
We had an NBC night game of the Battle of New York.
I don't know what was going on.
How does everyone know what?

Speaker 2 (45:58):
happened in that final battle.
But yeah, and originally theythink that Wanda's kind of, you
know, being victimized by somenefarious force.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
Because why would an Avenger do any of this?

Speaker 2 (46:12):
Yeah, episode 4, I think Episode 4, as far as those
episodes, those episodes thatbring the action to a screeching
halt to show the other side, Ithink this does it the best and
it doesn't feel as intrusive assome other shows.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
It's almost like the 9-episode structure helped it a
little bit.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
Yeah, and then that paves the way, basically, for
episode five.
You know the twins are born,get to the 80s.
We get a lot more.
I think this is I think I wroteit in my notes we get this is
the first time we see Agatha orAgnes in the main credits, quote
unquote, of the show.
She's imposing her will alittle bit more, which, again, I

(46:55):
didn't catch that on the firstrewatch.
But knowing what happens makessense.
We get to like episode five andall of a sudden this guest
character of the sitcom has nowmade her way into the main
credits.
Like that, that's red flag.
Like that that should show yousomething like why is she
important, right?
All of a sudden, in this lensthat supposedly Wanda's in
control of, we get the dog.

(47:16):
The dog shows up.
We get Vision getting an emailfrom Darcy saying about the
Maximov anomaly and he's likewhat is that?

Speaker 1 (47:25):
That's when he unlocks Norm for like two
seconds and he's like ah, yeah,he's like help please, anything,
help me, she's the worst.
She's the worst, anything, helpme.
She's the worst.
She stinks, she's hurtingeverybody.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
Alright, turn it off, I'll help you, but relax and
then we get they send the dronein dun dun, dun.
And then Hayward and his likethey got Wanda because they send
in basically an 80s version, an80s drone, because they figure
out that the hex Excuse me, thehex changes anything that goes

(48:01):
through it to match the era thatWanda's creating.
So they figure out, if we sendin an 80s drone, she won't catch
it, basically Because it's likea blind spot.
We send in an 80s drone, itbelongs there.
She sees it.
It's like a blind spot.
We send an 80s drone, itbelongs there.
She sees it, it's off-screen,quote-unquote off-screen.
And then Hayward does his bestcorch fire.
Monica's like huh, you arm thatthing with actual missiles.

(48:23):
And he's like we gotta take herout.
She sucks.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
And this is where Shackman's direction is so
insane, because it's like likejust the perspective shots that
you're getting, you see, andit's, it's how quickly it weaves
in between the actual sitcomand actual, you know, warped
reality is just, it's impeccable, yeah, fire fire.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
Um, the fire happens off screen and then we get
breach anomaly.
You're like, oh no, um, paveway to one of the most she's her
scenes.
The drone comes flying throughthe force field, wanda's in her
scarlet witch well, her originalscarlet witch get up the red
trench coat.
The sokovian accent comes back,which I think is a brilliant.

(49:03):
I don't know if it's adirecting choice or if it's a
elizabeth olsen choice no, ithas to be a.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
This had to have been pre-planned, and the only
reason I said that is because,uh, talk about it, cause Agatha,
episode eight is brilliant, butAgatha talks about it, episode
eight.
It's like oh, there's theaccent again.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
Yeah, it comes and goes.
I think.
I think a Quicksilver confrontsher on it too when she goes.
What happened to your accentfinal warning?
and you're like, oh shit yeah,like is she the villain or is
she being made to be the villain?
It's like you know the questionyou have to ask yourself, right
.
And she's because she says likehe's like you're holding a
whole town hostage.

(49:39):
She's like I'm not the one withthe guns director, like I'm
just trying, leave me, leave mealone, right.
Hayward's like I can't, I can'tdo that.
Monica's like I.
And she says to wanda like ifyou wanted to hurt me, you would
have, you would have.
And Wanda's like shut up, yeah,we're not friends, let's not do
this, be quiet.
She turns all the guns onHayward and then she just goes

(50:02):
back into Westview and Vision'slike what is going on?
And Wanda's like none of yourbusiness.

Speaker 1 (50:07):
Yeah, none of your business, Roll the credits.
We're you're not gonna thinkabout this.
But it's like no, you can'tcontrol me, I'm gonna think
about this.
And then she goes, can't I?
And you're like, oh yeah,rewind a little bit in the
episode.
You know vision has been at theoffice and the boys.
You know it's and dude.
You know what's incredible atthe show?

(50:28):
It's reflecting how the worldstarted to change through
sitcoms.
So like what you know wasallowed in sitcoms as well, like
family drama like that was notin sitcoms before.
And then as it starts to unraveland unravel, once you get to
the Malcolm in the middle andthe modern family inspired
sitcoms, it's like family dramawas one of the pillars for why
these shows were working so much.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
And I love you know.
Going back to like Vision'sworkplace, like I love, even
like that first episode Vision's, like what do we do here?

Speaker 1 (50:54):
And they're like we just do numbers.
And he's like what do you mean?
Yeah, we do we.
Yeah, we crunch the numbers,and you know we do.
But crunch the numbers for what?

Speaker 2 (51:01):
And he's like you know yeah the numbers, yeah For
stuff, for Wanda's reach, eventhough she's immensely powerful,
only goes so far to like thepeople on the outskirts of town
are just like droning away.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
They're like zombies, yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
And you're like, oh, that's not, that's not good,
right, um.
But yeah, you get this greatconfrontation between Vision and
Wanda, great, acting on bothsides, right, just water down,
um, and he goes.
You know what is outside Like?
And he goes, you know what isoutside like?
And he says like I'm scared,like I can't remember my life
before Westview, and I'm scared,and she's like shut up yeah,

(51:40):
roll the credits.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
We're on to the next.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
We have Malcolm in the Metal next week relax and he
basically you know they're bothraring up, like rocking up.
You think you're gonna get likea proper, proper fight here.
Then there's a knock on thedoor, the doorbell, and Wanda's
like I didn't do that andVision's like sure you didn't.
And Wanda's like whatever youdon't believe me, it's fine.
She opens the door and it'sQuicksilver.

(52:04):
It's.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
Evan Peters, what, what.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
What, what Big cheers it, what Big cheers.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
It's Uncle Jesse.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
Yeah, I love a lot of things about the show.
I still don't like theQuicksilver Bane switch, making
him like a loser.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
Yeah yeah, you should have just done it, you should
have just had him be, and whatit would have also done is help
this whole ramp into themultiverse too.
If it was that Quicksilver fromlike, if she was so powerful
where she got the consciousnessfrom another universe's
Quicksilver, or the body ofanother yeah, and you could have
done that, and then you couldhave just had it be.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Agatha got her hooks in him Right and just had him
still be Quicksilver, but likeAgatha got, instead of you know,
instead of passing it off aslike a joke Mm-hmm, like I still
don't that's still one of myleast favorite parts about it I
think you could have just madehim Quicksilver Right and still
done all the same stuff, butjust made him Quicksilver and
made him you know.
He got there and then Agathagot her hooks in him and

(52:59):
manipulated him.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
Right, you could have just done that.
And again to my point, likeshow how powerful she is, that
she was able to get into themultiverse to pull another
version of Accidentally.
Accidentally pull the Foxversion of quicksilver over.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
That's how powerful and how how rain because that's
like the through line too islike she kind of accidentally
did all this and then harnessedit right, like you see, the, the
episode 8 explosion of, of hergrief when she arrives at the,
at the plot that creates this.
But then she, she harnessed it.
So you could have done the samething with quicksilver.
Like she, she wanted to bringpietro back, but she kind of
messed up and brought this otherversion in, and then Agatha

(53:34):
harnessed that, you know, andtook him.
So, yeah, then we get to theHalloween episode, which again a
great moment here, when Visiongets out of the hex, which
you're like wow.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
It's such a great contrast too to her coming out
of the hex, like you.
Again it keeps going like wesee who's in control the more
and more it goes on like she hasfull out power, full out
control.
And again, what the reveal isso great for is like, yes,
agatha is a villain, but thereis no discernible villain here.
But again, it's perspectivebased, like you know to from

(54:13):
from the story that we'rewatching and the sitcom that
we're watching.
But again it's perspectivebased, like you know.
So from from the story thatwe're watching and the sitcom
that we're watching, you knowit's the big reveal that agnes
to agatha is the villain, butfrom every single other person
in westview's perspective,wanda's the villain of this.
She's holding everybody hostageand again it's a great point
like this isn't what avengers do.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
Like I thought you were an avenger and then the
vision comes out of the freakinghex and he's like you gotta
help the people, right, likethey're, they're in danger or
whatever.
And you know, from hayward'sperspective, he's like see,
right, told you like she's thebad guy.
But then you know, you, theback end of the show is finding
out what hayward's role in allthis is, and his role in all
this is creating a new vision.

(54:50):
Right, you know that's all hehe basically needed, cause you
think you think the, the conceitis Wanda took visions body into
the hex and brought him back tolife.
Right, you find out that's notwhat happened.
You find out she literallyrecreated him with her magic, um

(55:11):
, which, again, and Hayward hadthe vision the whole time.
Insane power, yeah, that shejust built him, um, but you find
out that hayward and sword havehad the vision this entire time
.
Right, um, he just needed hermagic, or remnants of her magic,
to bring him back.
Right, because she created thevision inside westview with the

(55:32):
remnants of the Mind Stone'spower that was inside of her.
That's how she created him.
So SWORD needed remnants of hermagic to reanimate their vision
, which they do with the drone.
Her magic is on the drone andHayward's like we got him.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
Right got him Six, and seven we can bottleneck into
one.
It's Malcolm in the middle inthe modern family inspired one
she, um, she expands the hex tosave the vision.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Yep, um, I did like the little little bit where she
turns the sword people intoclowns, yeah, like, how, like,
that's like the meta version ofhow she views them, right, like,
turns them into a circus,essentially, which was, which
was fun, um, and you justrealize how powerful she is.
She's Like she just at willjust expands this thing.
You know what I mean?
Right, and you get the, you getthe vision, obviously, getting

(56:20):
to the outskirts of town.
You get her, you get himencountering Agatha out there,
and you're like, hmm, she's not,she's playing detached, but you
can tell she's not actuallydetached, right?
So then again, you, you're, andshe's dressed as a witch, right
, um, and then, yeah, we get the, the modern family episode,
which is again.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
Do you want to talk about the aerospace engineer?

Speaker 2 (56:43):
yeah, yeah, oh, my god, and again, like I you know,
upon re-watching this, likethey do kind of hang on it to
make you think that it's goingto be something significant,
right, and it's just her friendyeah, just as in the military,
that gets her a vehicle, but itis the inception of Photon
Spectrum, whatever you want tocall her in the MCU.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
She finally gets her.
She goes out of the Hex, whichkind of unlocks the potential to
get the power, and then, onceshe Well, rewrites her DNA,
right, and Is that how thisworks?
I mean, her DNA was alteredRight, same thing as Ms Marvel,
same thing.
It's just you needed a powersource to unlock the DNA.
So the Hex did it to her, theBangle did it to Kamala, and I

(57:21):
mean that's a good piece of what.
And the which stone was it?
It was the Tesseract.
So the Space Stone did it toCarol.
So that's why the three of themInfinity stones in a weird way.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
Yeah, she goes in.
You see the spectrum powerskind of activate Yep, she gets
back inside the hex.
She's seeing everything on thespectrum, light spectrum, yeah,
on the light spectrum.
And then she's kind of likeWhoa, that was weird.
And then, yeah, she confrontsWanda again.
Wanda's like get lost, get lost.
Like I don't want to hurt you,but I will will.
Um agatha's, you know watchingthe kids right, um, and you just

(57:56):
they get inside her house andbilly, who's a telepath, says to
agatha like it's quiet here.
Yeah, yep, I can't hear.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
I can't hear any, because he can hear voice, he's
hearing voices.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
He's got professor x syndrome this entire time.
That's how he hears.
He hears vision dying outsidethe hex um, and he goes.
It's quiet here.
He's like.
I like it here because it'squiet and he goes, you're quiet,
agnes, and you're like hmm,what does?

Speaker 1 (58:19):
that mean right.
What do you mean right?
I mean, you know, at the timehe's just like I gotta go fast,
gotta go fast um, and then agnes.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
She steps in when monica confronts wanda.
Um, because agatha isthreatened by monica's presence
there.
Um, she's like you've hadenough, because she's a variable
that she was not equating for.
You come back in and she sitsWanda down and she's like, where
are my kids?
And she's like, oh, they'rejust in the basement playing,
relax, trapped.
Trapped in a hex in a bunch ofrunes and she's like I'm Agatha

(58:51):
Harkness, I'm Agatha Harkness,I'm going to give the Harkness
from the.
Marvel comics Cue the song Yep,which is it's still good.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
I mean, it won an Emmy, Of course it's incredible.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
It's still good.
Catherine Hotton is sensational.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
Oh my god, she is one of the best things of this show
.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
She's like, it's me.
It was me all along.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
She killed the dog, and I killed Sparky too.
She's got a great cackle.
Oh the witch laugh.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
It's peak.
She has a tremendous cackle.
And then we get the Agathabackstory.
She was going to be burned byother witches, or she was going
to have her magic drained byother witches.
And then Agatha's like uno.
Reverse card.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
Right.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
I'm draining your magic now.
Well, that's her thing.
That I'm draining your magic now, Well, that's her thing, that's
her like.
That's her thing as a witch isthat she steals the magic from
the quote-unquote undeserving.
And then she basically like wefind out, like, what her mission
is.
And it's like her mission isbasically like I want to know
how you're so powerful, Right,Tell me, tell me, tell me how

(59:53):
you did this.
And Wanda's like I don't know.
And Agatha's like well, MindPalace, we're going into
Professor X, Mind Palace, we'regoing down in your memories,
Wanda, we're going to figurethis out, Dang it.
We go back to her childhood inSokovia, when her parents were
killed, Most notably her lovefor sitcoms yada y episode 8.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
That might be my favorite episode.
That episode is really, reallygood.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
It's really good we finally get the origin story of,
of, you know, of the ScarletWitch, which is awesome yeah, we
find out that her and Pietrowere near a defective quote
unquote missile for two days andAgatha's like two days, huh, I
love how much.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
It's, not only how much agatha knows, I just love
how, how, if this makes sense,not coy that she's being about.
She's just like no, you,there's something to you.
And wanda's like what are youtalking about?
I just, I just was a normalperson and then they
experimented on me and I gotthese powers.
Like no, no, no, I've seenwitches for for hundreds of
years.
You're a witch, witch, you're awitch.

(01:00:55):
You always have been, youalways will be.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
She's like that missile wasn't defective for two
days.
Right you cast the probabilityhex.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
I love how she's breaking down Wanda's powers in
magical terms.
Right, you're not just asuperhero.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
You're a witch.
Right, you're casting spellsthat I had to spend years
learning.
Right that I still have to dothe verbal incantations to cast.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
Right, you have, and she says it at the end of
episode eight.
You have magic.
She said magic on autopilot.
That is power.
That is just.
That's otherworldly.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
Yep, we go back to the sword base, which is where
we find out about the stuffabout the vision that you find
out that hayward was lying right.
Wanda didn't steal the vision'sbody, she left it there.
Yep, she was furious.
Right, because who wouldn't beright?
Um, because vision was cut upinto little bits and hayward's.
Like you can see him, but Ican't let you take up and bury
it, like you're not going tobury three billion dollars worth

(01:01:47):
of vibranium in the ground,like I'm sorry, you're just not
going to do that.
Um, she drives to the westviewlot that Vision had purchased
for them.
I don't know where Vision gotthe money from.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
From Tony, from his dad oh, vision's a trust fund,
baby he is, oh no.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
I do like that.
The deed said the Vision on it.
Yeah, yep, mr the Vision, mrthe Vision.
She explodes from her grief andit creates the hex One moment.
And Agatha's like aha, I stilldon't know how you're doing this
.
You're just stupid powerful.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
Well, she says I have a theory, but I need a little
bit more.
And then we go to theexperimentation, and then we
figure out what actuallyhappened.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
Yeah, the Mind Stone unlocked her Scarlet Witchiness.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
Right, because, like we said, she always was a witch
and the the scar, like the, themind stone just gave her, just
like it gave pietro power, itstill gave her power, it just
she finally got it unlocked andyou know the witch nature, with
the genetic mutation of the ofthe mind stone, that's a potent
mix.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
gives me the goosebumps um, we get the the uh
, the avengers compound scenewith her and vision lord.
What is what is grief if notlove persevering?
What is he cooking?
Um, I believe I just want tocredit this.
So, laura, laura, donnie wroteepisode eight, so we can
probably credit her with thatline.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Just a phenomenal episode in my opinion.

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
That's one of my favorite episodes from the mcu
yeah, I just love those, those,love those little in-between
moments of like in-between thesemovies, like the quiet moments
with these characters whereWanda and Vision are just kind
of chatting and it's a veryrealistic take on someone
grieving and someone in thiscase Vision not knowing how to
console that person.
Where he's like you know, likewhat do you?

(01:03:34):
He doesn't really ask her likewhat she wants, but like she
basically says like the onlything I want is Pietro back, and
she kind of like snaps at himyou know what I mean and she
just takes a moment and stepsback and she's like I'm sorry,
like you know it just, andVision's like I'm just going to
sit here, like I'm just going,you know, watch some sitcoms
together.
You know what I mean, andthat's kind of like the genesis

(01:03:56):
of their love, essentially Right, and then Agatha figures it out
.
Basically she's like you havechaos magic.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
You wouldn't be the Scarlet Witch, would you?

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
So she brings Wanda back.
Agatha's gone.
She hears her kids crying.
Agatha's got them leashed up.
She's in her.
Agatha's gone.
She hears her kids crying.
Agatha's got them leashed up.
She's in her full Agatha.

Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
It's a great looking suit on Agatha here we got one
more great looking suit to talkabout.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
Then we cut back to the sword base White Vision
You're White Vision from MarvelComics.
We get to episode 9.
I remember this finale beingnot well received.
I think it's pretty good.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
I still think it's still solid.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
It just devolves into a big Marvel thing.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
My thing, too, is people are like how dare they do
this?
I said what about the other 30MCU projects that ended the same
way?
Why was this the one that yougot mad?

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
at it still ends on a really emotional.
Yeah, the tone of the shownever gets lost, mm-hmm, even in
this big finale, mm-hmm, youknow, obviously, when she breaks
the hex down and you knowwhat's funny.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
If the finale didn't end like this, I feel like
people still would have beenupset.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
I mean, you have to resolve it Right.
You have to resolve this.
If you're going to put twowitches against each other,
something's got to give hereright, like they gotta fight,
right, sure, um, and we get, uh,the ship of theses.
Um, hardness is agatha's likeI'm taking your magic, I'm, I'm
gonna be the chaos magic wieldernow.

(01:05:27):
Um, and then the vision comesin.
White vision swoops in toattack Wanda and she's like
Vision and he's like no.
But, yes, he gives her the facesqueeze and you're like ooh,
ouch.
And then other Vision shows up.
Don't I keep my wife's name.

(01:05:48):
Other Vision shows up.
So we get Wanda releases theWestview residence.
She's like a big battle's aboutto happen, everybody get out.
We get the Ralph Boner reveal.
Still don't like it, I stilldon't like it.
And then, yeah, this is a bigfinale.

(01:06:10):
All your main players areinside the hex.
The sword stuff comes tofruition.

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
I love that little bit where it's the four of them,
it's the boys.
All your main players areinside the hex.
The sword stuff comes tofruition.
I love that little bit whereit's the four of them.
It's the boys Wanda and Vision.
It's like boys.
We never really prepared youfor this, but you've always been
ready, so we get basically thebattle split on three fronts.

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
We get Wanda and Agatha, we get the Visions, we
get Monica and the childrenversus sword.
Essentially, we get to seeMonica's powers in full view.
Soldiers shoot at her, she thebullets phase through her, and
then Darcy comes in, wham Takes.

Speaker 1 (01:06:43):
Hayward out yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
And then we get the visions, have a chat Like a
couple of gents.
They punch for a bit and thenthey're like Wait.

Speaker 1 (01:06:53):
Are you me and am I you?
He's me.
He says I'm me, he says Wait.
Can I ask you a question?
Yeah, Let me ask you somethingreal quick.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
Are you familiar with the concept of the ship of
Theseus, he said, and WhiteVision's like of course.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
White Vision said I'm a genius, of course, come on
man know the ship of theseus.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
Yeah, he's like are you the ship of theseus?
And my vision's like huh, maybeI am, neither are the true ship
.

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
Both are the true ship what is going on here, and
then he unlocks his mind andthen he's like I am the vision
and then the then.
Then the og's vision shouldhave been like he's on me and
he's.

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
And he's like may I touch your head?
Yeah, he's like sure, I guess.
Are we brothers?
No, no, maybe he touches hishead.
We get a smash.
We get a super cut of theVision's greatest hits Yep.
Up until the point he wasobliterated Right.
And then the Vision's like whoaI, whoa, I am the Vision.
And then he flies off Right Tohis own spinoff show Yep,

(01:07:59):
exactly Yep.
And then we get Wanda vs Agatha.
They're firing magic at eachother.
And Wanda's like I learnedsomething from you.
And then Wanda's like SailorMoon, transformation activate.

Speaker 1 (01:08:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm taking you back Mind tricks.
Remember the mind tricks fromOrigin of Ultron?
They're back.
Suck it, that was great.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
I love that they brought that back.
When she's like whoop, I'm inyour head and you're like oh,
and then Agatha's like did you?

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
I'm also a witch.
We literally just talked aboutthat.
Now you're going to remember.
And then you know, she used myold trick against me.

Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
Now she's mollywh.
Wanda's like wait, you forgotabout the runes Right.
And then Wanda's like SailorMoon, transformation powers
activate.
She gets the Scarlet Witchcostume.
It's still the best lookingScarlet.

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
Witch costume.
It's so dang good.
It's got that little piece tolook like the Mind Stone in the
middle because right around, ohgood stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
Sleeveless.
Yep Like the cape, she's gotthe cape.
She's got the crown right.

Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
Agatha's like oh no bro, no bro it's the scarlet
witch, yeah, and like the fearin her eyes, it's not that the
fact that she lost.
It's like you don't know whatyou just released upon to this
world yeah, uh, she puts therunes up and agatha's powerless.

Speaker 2 (01:09:04):
and then wanda's like yeah she, she drops them out of
the sky and she's like I'm notgoing to kill you, but I'm going
to trap you in the in the agnespersona.
Basically, basically, right,yep.

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):
Give it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:17):
And then she does it Right.
She saps Agatha's magic, shetraps her in the Agnes persona
and just leaves her in Westview,Yep.
And then we get again.
We get to just theheartbreaking final scene where
Wanda what's the problem?
Why would they do?

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
this to her.

Speaker 2 (01:09:34):
Where Wanda has to let them go.
Final scene where.
Wanda has to let them go, herkids and the Vision.
They have one final goodbye andshe breaks down the hex and we
get Vision and the kids, thechildren, they vanish and you're
like Jesus Christ, jesus Christ, this show.
And then we have to set up somethings.

(01:09:56):
So we get Monica gets calledinto a theater by a Skrull.
Yeah, you know the Skrulls fromMarvel Comics and they're like
the boss wants to see you, theboss, the boss.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
It's Nick Fury.
Yeah, it is Nick Fury.
He's up in space.
Yeah, you're up in spacegetting soft and we're your
little errand boys down here.
We getting soft and we getlittle errand boys down here.

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
we're gonna re-talk about secret invasion, but from
a comedic perspective.
They send monica up to do asecret invasion yeah, but she's
never.

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
She's not in, no, no, she's just in the marvels she
should have been secret invasionquestion mark.
That would have probably been alittle smarter.
But who are we to say?

Speaker 2 (01:10:29):
um, and then we get a post credit scene.
Guess what court your favoritebook is back?
No, no.

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
Why does everybody read the Dark Hole?
Just leave it alone.
The book's no good.
The book has the worst trackrecord of being good.
Who wins from reading the DarkHole?
Not Wanda.
Give me one person that wonfrom reading the Dark Hole
Doctor Strange, alternate Earth,doctor Strange.
But then he was murderedbecause he was too powerful.
They were like the Illuminati's, like you know, we have to kill

(01:10:54):
you, right?
And he's like yeah, there's nogood that comes from the
Darkhold.

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
Dream walking, you hypocrite.

Speaker 1 (01:10:59):
Dude, you can't tell me Raimi wasn't cooking.
He was cooking.
Take out the multiversals.
Take out the Illuminati stufffrom Multiverse of Madness.

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
That movie's hold.
Oh ron, put it down, she's not.
Not only is she reading thedark hold, she's actual project
reading the dark hold no, it'sthe worst way to read it on
autopilot.

Speaker 1 (01:11:18):
No, let's put the dark hold she's asleep, the
scarlet witch.
Actual projection is readingthe dark hold and she's like my
boys, my boys from themultiverse.
I'm coming flipping pages she'sflipping pages um.
She's on wonder gore mountain.
No, she's, she's in a cabin.
Yeah, we thought it was wondergirl mountain at the time.
That was what the theory was.
She goes there yeah, she bringswong against his will and

(01:11:40):
wong's like.
I don't want to go.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
I don't want to go.
She's like you're going.
That's my favorite part.
One of my favorite parts ofmultiverse of madness is they
get some wonder girl bat andwong's like no way to get up
there.
Yeah, sorry, wanda, and wanda'slike no, no, no, did you know I
can fly?

Speaker 1 (01:11:54):
She flies now.
She flies now.

Speaker 2 (01:11:58):
She drags Wong up there.
Wong's like, oh no.

Speaker 1 (01:12:00):
Oh, I hate this.

Speaker 2 (01:12:04):
But yeah, she's reading the Darkhold.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
Just put it down.
Put the dang Darkhold down.

Speaker 2 (01:12:09):
We find out she's been reading it for quite a
while.
Yeah, by the time we get toMultiverse of madness to the
point where she, she can justshe's creating.

Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
She's still creating exes.
Yeah, she created a nice littlegarden.
Dr strange is like this is anice garden and one is like,
yeah, yeah it is, it's real.
I didn't wait, I didn't ask youif it was real or not.
Ah, you got me, just took some.
Got me.
I'm evil, I'm the Scarlet Witch.
Ah, shoot, aw man, aw man.

Speaker 2 (01:12:36):
I've been tricked.
I've been duped.
Call you Dr Dumbass.
You've been tricked.

Speaker 1 (01:12:48):
How'd you fall for the old Scarlet Witch and an
apple orchard trick, dang, dangit.
Let's give out some awards forthis show.
That's WandaVision, that'sWandaVision, it's great.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
It's really great, real good.
Like I said, elizabeth Olsenjust brilliant.
She did everything.
She did the sitcom bitsexceptionally well.
She did Tragic Wanda incrediblywell.
She did Scarlet Witch Wandaincredibly well.
So I mean, I I'm not gonnaspoil anything, but she's, she's

(01:13:18):
my mvp of this whole thing.
But yeah, let's, uh, let's dosome awards yeah, um best let's,
let's start with saddest momentoh, it's wanda, I think it's
wanda, collapsing in the, in thelot, when you're just, it's
just like a culmination of justeverything.
It's sad.

Speaker 1 (01:13:35):
It's sad man.
Uh, I'm gonna go with whenshe's goes to see the vision and
she gets to his corpse and shekind of pulls, or rogue did a
her from x-men 97 where she'sjust like I, I can't feel you
wolf oh yeah, it's rough andhe's like in pieces, he's in
pieces.

Speaker 2 (01:13:50):
yep, and you're like, he's like in the coldest
environment possible for thistype of tragic goodbye.
Yep, yeah, that's terrible.
Best side character I'm goingto say Jimmy Woo.

Speaker 1 (01:14:04):
Love me some, jimmy Woo, I'm going to go with Monica
.

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
Okay, yeah, I mean, jimmy was just well-deployed.

Speaker 1 (01:14:12):
He's also very endearing.
He's just like a good fella.
Yeah yeah, he's the best fella.
Um, let's do uh.

Speaker 2 (01:14:20):
Most underrated character in this show um, I
think I'm gonna say monica forthat one.
I think she that's fair,especially upon rewatch, like
she feels.
Again, it just goes back to mypoint about like should have
expedited some of this a littlebit quicker because like I
wanted to see more of thatcharacter and like it did its
job, like WandaVision finished,and I'm like I want to see more

(01:14:42):
of her, like I want to see whathappened with her and Carol,
like I want to see that stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:14:47):
That goes to my point about legacy Like she was one
of the legacy pieces from theshow, like she is the moving on
of Captain Marvel into the newage of, you know, of Maria
Rambeau.
She's literally the legacy ofMaria Rambeau.
Yeah, most underrated character, dottie, because I thought she
was Clea, everyone thought shewas Clea Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:15:05):
She gave Clea vibes.
She did, she definitely did.
She's coming back.

Speaker 1 (01:15:08):
No, no, no, the Mrs Hart's coming back.
Oh, she's coming back.

Speaker 2 (01:15:12):
Yeah, I think she's just gonna be like an avatar for
, like, what's going on investibule, sure, sure um, but
she's also a witch, is she?

Speaker 1 (01:15:20):
I think that's what they're trying to say, is that
she also was a witch.
She's not kidding, from that70s show come on man uh, most
heroic moment, uh, vision saving.
Saving wanda, because keep mywife's name out your mouth, yeah
yeah, that's pretty good.
Um, because it's hard to likesay like any of the scarlet
witchiness stuff is heroic Imean I'll remix it to like the
family, like their littlefantastic four moment with the

(01:15:42):
family.
Yeah, to fight everybody.
Yeah, it's such was, like, it'ssuch a crazy play on like the,
the ending of she-hulk, becauseit was very serendipitous how
everybody was coming up at thesame, like the sword agents were
coming up, and then agatha's inthe sky, and then white visions
, white vision, then whitevision, then white visions right
there, and you're like, ohshoot, oh no bro yeah, yeah,

(01:16:02):
yeah, I think I did.

Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
I did like the, the bit, I did like her little like
trapping agatha in the runes,and then she does like her, like
I said, her like sailor moontransformation and becomes the
scarlet witch, like that's, likeone the best.
It's a great ascension toheroism when she just full
get-up shows up and you're likeoh is she?

Speaker 1 (01:16:24):
cool now.
She's cool now.
Favorite cameo Is it the ideaof the ship of Theses?

Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
In a show that people wanted a billion cameos.
Cameos, I mean the quicksilver.
One's hard to beat even thoughit's undermined by the finale,
right, but like at the time,you're like oh, what the moly?
Like this is sick.

Speaker 1 (01:16:45):
The fox theories were going insane.

Speaker 2 (01:16:47):
It was not this magneto gonna show up?

Speaker 1 (01:16:49):
yes, I'm in.
I will subscribe to that umbest heat check performance.
Catherine Han.

Speaker 2 (01:16:56):
Yeah, Like from the jump.
When she shows up in the firstepisode, you're just like who
are you?

Speaker 1 (01:17:03):
And why do I need more of?

Speaker 2 (01:17:04):
you.
You're the greatest.
Are you the best actor who'sever acted?
Funniest moment.
I like the yakety yak moment.
It's fun.
It still makes me laugh.

Speaker 1 (01:17:12):
It's fun they got the papers in the trash like out of
nowhere.
And I love wanda in thebackground, like what is he
doing?
So that that still makes melaugh so hard.
Um, I'm gonna have to go withepisode six, like the, the
malcolm in the middleinspiration, because like that
was out of all the sitcoms thatthat's the one that I was most

(01:17:34):
like kin to like, I was mostdrawn to, cause that's my
nostalgia piece, is Malcolm inthe middle.
So, um, all the stuff, all thelittle things Malcolm in the
middle inspired stuff that theydid, speaking of that, um, it's
the episode after when they doanother?

Speaker 2 (01:17:48):
I think no, it's the modern family episode that.
And then Vision, kind of likeWandaVision.
His name just shows up at theend but every other thing just
says Wanda, which again Ithought was just a great kind of
hint at who's in control ofthis whole thing.
Sure, best source materialcallback.

Speaker 1 (01:18:11):
Just the witchy stuff , just the witchy stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:18:14):
The witchy stuff, the Darkhold.
I love the.

Speaker 1 (01:18:16):
Darkhold.
Stop reading the Darkhold.

Speaker 2 (01:18:17):
Why does?

Speaker 1 (01:18:18):
everybody have to open.
Dude, it's called the Book ofthe Damned.
Stop reading the Darkhold.

Speaker 2 (01:18:23):
I haven't seen the Darkhold since.
Agents of SHIELD.
Hot take Best use of theDarkhold.
I was like, oh, the Darkhold'sback.

Speaker 1 (01:18:32):
Just put the Darkhold down.
You don't need it.
Oh, this might be the best one,best NPC.

Speaker 2 (01:18:41):
Is it Vision?
I'm going to say I like Herb.

Speaker 1 (01:18:48):
I'm going to raise your Herb and go, norm.

Speaker 2 (01:18:50):
Norm's also good.
This is the best show, bestmedia that we've ever done for
this topic, because likeliterally the whole point.

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
This and the Matrix were probably the best too.

Speaker 2 (01:18:59):
Is that they're all NPCs?
Yeah, it's like, that's likethe point, right, you know?
So I think I was like I likeHerb, I like Herb, I like what
Herb was about.

Speaker 1 (01:19:11):
Right, he's real.
He might not have control, buthe's a real.
One best song.

Speaker 2 (01:19:19):
I mean that Agatha all along song.
It's a certified bop agreedbest musical moment.

Speaker 1 (01:19:28):
I quite like the main theme that she oh.
The theme where the ScarletWitch descended upon Dara was
insane.
That was a great bit of story.

Speaker 2 (01:19:34):
I also like the remixed version of the Avengers.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, when they cutto that Civil War in the
bedroom bit and they kind ofplay like a spooky version of
the Avengers game.

Speaker 1 (01:19:43):
Good stuff, good stuff.
I like that too.
Favorite line what is grief?

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
if not love, persevering.

Speaker 1 (01:19:48):
There's just woof and we'll leave it there.

Speaker 2 (01:19:52):
Yeah, I mean I would struggle to come up with a with
a with a with another contender.

Speaker 1 (01:19:58):
Yeah, and I mean that is just there's quotes and
stuff where, like, the quote isgood for the thing, that's just
an all time quote, for just life.

Speaker 2 (01:20:05):
Now, that's what a quote for just life itself.
Whoever penned that quote justphenomenal.
I I was was.
When he said it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:12):
I was like oh jesus and paul bettany, on top of that
which you know, uh favoriteworld building or lore moment.
Um, I think it's just theinception of the scarlet witch.
I thought was so freaking coolbecause you were waiting you've
been waiting for it, right?
I think episode eight as awhole is probably the best world
building or lore moment it wasthat.

Speaker 2 (01:20:30):
It was that moment, I think, in episode six, when
they're talking about wanda andthey're like, and hey, we're
just like she doesn't have likea, like a nickname or like a
gimmick, and and that made merealize like, oh yeah, like
she's never actually been calledthe scarlet witch before, and
then that turns out to be thepoint of the whole show, right,
because I was like, oh yeah, shejust has been wanda maximoff
this whole time, like so yeah,like her ascension to becoming

(01:20:52):
the scarlet witch good stuffstuff.

Speaker 1 (01:20:54):
Favorite shot it's the descending of the Scarlet
Witch.
I think it is the cool.
It's the reverse shot back toWanda.
It's almost as if she'ssuccumbing to the Scarlet Witch.
It's almost to that nexus pointof it knows no bounds of time.
How did she see that?
Before it was even accepted toher?
Because it doesn't know time.

Speaker 2 (01:21:16):
Time isn't an element that's encompassing of it.
I quite like the episode four,the silhouette of her right
before she comes through the hex.

Speaker 1 (01:21:20):
Yeah, that's cool stuff.
It's good stuff, not bad.
Favorite performance.

Speaker 2 (01:21:25):
Elizabeth Olsen for me.

Speaker 1 (01:21:26):
I'm gonna go Paul Bettany.
I thought he was so freakinggood so incredible.

Speaker 2 (01:21:30):
I mean she, like I said she again.
Like by the time the show endedI was just like just make her
the main character of this wholething.
Like she, because she can carryit, yep, yep, um favorite
character um, it's the scarletwitch it's tough not to say
wanda yeah, I mean, I, I wouldyou know.
Part of me wants to say like, oh, like, agatha was fun.

(01:21:50):
Um, I really like themulti-dimensional aspect of the
vision, um, especially when,when the other vision comes in
and you get to see for a briefmoment the Ultron version of the
Vision, basically.

Speaker 1 (01:22:07):
What the original intention probably was to be.
Yeah, but sometimes it's notcomplicated.
And then your favorite momentit's tough not to beat the
ending of episode nine, whereshe unfortunately has to let go
of everything.

Speaker 2 (01:22:19):
And then vision's so long darling, I'm like wolf and
he's just yeah, he gets likevaporized, yep, and you're just
like ouch, yep, um.
Yeah, I mean it's that, or justI really just enjoyed the like,
the not enjoyed, but likechronicling Wanda's grief, you
know, just that whole, from herparents to to the visions, all

(01:22:42):
that stuff, yep, um yeah, that'sit, that's, that's the.
I really enjoyed it, man.

Speaker 1 (01:22:49):
I really enjoyed it Like being removed from it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:52):
you know being able to consume it nine episodes, you
know, right in a row, withouthaving to like wait a week in
between, without like the crazytheorizing Is Magneto going to
show up?

Speaker 1 (01:23:03):
Is Reed Richards in this?
Are they going to?
Introduce Blue Marvel, mephisto, I think Blue Marvel was my
favorite one Because it was sooutlandishly ridiculous in
hindsight.
Yeah, like why would BlueMarvel of all the projects show
up in this one?
Like what are we talking?

Speaker 2 (01:23:16):
about.
He's got some ties to Spectrumand I'm like they're not gonna.

Speaker 1 (01:23:20):
No, they just introduced her, why would he be
here?

Speaker 2 (01:23:22):
Yeah, yeah.
What are you guys waiting for?
The Blue Marvel spin-offproject, right?

Speaker 1 (01:23:26):
right and again is going to be in this.
Oh yeah, yeah, that was the oh,Lord, Lord.

Speaker 2 (01:23:38):
It was because of Paul Bettany.
Yeah, because he's the greatestactor on the show.
I've always wanted to work withthis actor and we had some
scenes together and people werelike it's Al Pacino, you know,
because in past interviews Ithink he said his favorite actor
was Al Pacino.

Speaker 1 (01:23:56):
So everybody's like movie am I thinking about with
him?
And, uh, him and keanu reeves.
Um, you want to rapid fire the?

Speaker 2 (01:23:59):
project infinite awards.
Yeah, glenn powell movie staraward elizabeth easy.

Speaker 1 (01:24:01):
Uh, john david washington, can they act award
um the twins I hate you can't doit.

Speaker 2 (01:24:06):
On kid actors, I'm gonna say tyler hayward, yeah.
Yeah, we don't know.
We don't know hayward's actor,like, did he play that wooden on
purpose or is he just wooden?

Speaker 1 (01:24:14):
yeah I gotta agree.
That's uh, denzel washington,they can't act.
Award katherine hann yep um 824.
Let the director cook atshackman.
They let him cook with all the,especially in the mcu, which
was very, you know.
Admittedly it was very uniformto itself and you know how we
know he cooked he's directingthe fantastic four?
Yep.
Um in the in the?
Are they them, she her or hehim award?

(01:24:35):
It's a squall, it's.
It's elizabeth olsen, he cooked, he's directing the Fantastic
Four.
Fantastic Four, yep, and the.
Are they them she?

Speaker 2 (01:24:38):
Her or he Him award.
It's a Scarlet Witch.

Speaker 1 (01:24:39):
It's Elizabeth Olsen.

Speaker 2 (01:24:40):
Is this yours?

Speaker 1 (01:24:41):
Is this yours?
I'm not the one with the guns.

Speaker 2 (01:24:46):
This is your final warning Cooked.
Oh God, she's so scary, she isscary, she is scary.
And she was scary in Multiverseof Madness.
She was real scary.
She does that thing inWandaVision like she did in
Multiverse of Madness thedeadpan camera.
Stare, I don't like it.
I don't like it.
I don't like it like throughthe.
I think it's when she's face toface with the drone and she

(01:25:06):
kind of like looks at us.
I'm like pull that drone, getthat drone out of here.

Speaker 1 (01:25:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, get that jelly mold out of here.
Oh, that guy should have beenin WandaVision.
Oh, he would have been theperfect NPC.
Oh man, I want to go back intime.
Oh, they need to put him inevery Marvel project.
That's the thing they got to do.
Put him in everything he intoWandaVision.
He would have fit right in.
I can't wait for Severanceseason two to see him again, see
my boy again.

Speaker 2 (01:25:36):
He would put him fit right into WandaVision.
Get that jelly mold out of here.
Fallout Peak, get that rabbitout of here.
Oh, that's the other thing.
People thought the rabbit wasgoing to be like Mephisto or
whatever happened there.
Nah.

Speaker 1 (01:25:52):
It's just a tree man.

Speaker 2 (01:25:56):
It's just a tree.
That's actually the perfectline that represents WandaVision
as a whole.
It's just a tree man.
It's just a ride man.
It's just a tree.
Agatha's just a villain.
I don't know what to tell youthere's no Mephisto here.
No, sorry, will we get Mephistoand Agatha all along?

Speaker 1 (01:26:14):
Don't do this.
No, don't do it.
I feel what you're trying.
Don't do it, don't try it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:18):
We're doing it again.
Don't try it.
Can't wait for the theorizer.
No, are we going to talk aboutthat next week?

Speaker 1 (01:26:24):
The first two episodes yeah, yeah, let's do it
, let's do it.
I'm excited like yeah and nowit's a trilogy.
Now it's defined as this is the, the second part of the trilogy
.

Speaker 2 (01:26:36):
Like katherine, katherine hunt deserves this.
Yeah, like it did feel likewhen they announced it, like, oh
, they're just capitalizing onon the song and like nah she's
actually great like as thecharacter.

Speaker 1 (01:26:46):
Like we said, the trailers have me more and more
and more.
I'm like I actually gotta seethis now and the big whether
it's a gimmick cell or it's anactual cell to make this thing a
trilogy.
It at least makes sense nowthat this is going to be the
second part and then the Visionshow will be the last part,
which I am very much assuming,that's when Elizabeth Olsen is
going to make her return.

Speaker 2 (01:27:05):
I'm so excited, like again, like watching this show,
thinking back on Multiverse ofMadness, like anytime she shows
up it feels like a big deal.
Mm-hmm, you know, shows up, itfeels like a big deal.
You know whether it's age ofultron, whether it's civil war,
whether it's endgame.
When she shows back up, likeanytime that character's on the
screen, like I'm, I'm payingattention, right.
So like if she shows up back upin this vision show at the, you

(01:27:25):
know, after the agatha show,like I'm gonna be in.
Yeah, like I, I want to see heragain and I want to see her do
stuff.
I want to see her like the arc.
The arc is working to the pointwhere, like she does, like the
turn at the end of Multiverse ofMadness, but like I'm excited,
I want to see her be like aproper hero.

Speaker 1 (01:27:41):
Well, that's her second part and the best part
about the second movie that wealways talk about.
Beat the living crap out of thecharacter and, whether it be
physically, mentally oremotional, beat the living crap
out of the and she's beenbeating up a lot right now, it's
her.
Now it's time for her to comeback like I want to.

Speaker 2 (01:27:55):
I want to see that character do some heroic shit,
yeah, and like show up and likeI want to see her interact with
these other characters againlike I want to see her you know
I need her and loki together tosome capacity like I I want to
see, like obviously I want tosee her and vision again and her
and agatha again, but like Iwant to see her back with like
sam, yeah, yep.
Like I want to see her backwith like the avengers because
hawkeye, specifically, is theone I need to see again.

(01:28:16):
Yeah because, like none of themhave seen her, I know what's
going on.

Speaker 1 (01:28:19):
Yeah hawkeye's probably got to be like where's
my like?
Because she was almost likeborderline, like her, his
daughter surrogate, until he gotkate of like yo, where is she
like?
What?
What happened to like thisperson?
I was like taking care of likein civil war.

Speaker 2 (01:28:33):
They have a great like that great scene together
when he goes to rescue her yepand he's like all right, like
you know, we're doing this likeI'm here and I'm here to save
you, you know like, yeah, I wantto see her do stuff.
Like I'm excited and you know,obviously elizabeth olsen brings
so much to that role like Ijust want to, I just want to see
it.

Speaker 1 (01:28:51):
Um that's it, man.

Speaker 2 (01:28:52):
That's it man um, you can follow us on twitter at
project INF underscore pod.
You can follow us on facebook.
You can follow us on youtube atthe project infinite podcast.
All the episodes are posted upon youtube the minute they go
live on all the other podcastplatforms apple, spotify, yada
yada.
You can follow us on instagramat the project infinite pod.
And next week, first twoepisodes of Agatha all along.

(01:29:13):
I'd imagine the first episodewill be a lot of setup.
Second episode will probably bethe launch point to the rest of
the season.

Speaker 1 (01:29:19):
To get them on the road.

Speaker 2 (01:29:20):
It's usually how this thing gets structured when they
pair episodes together.
They did it with X-Men 97.
Episode one was just like.

Speaker 1 (01:29:29):
This is the X-Men.
The X-Men are cool.

Speaker 2 (01:29:31):
Are they cool?

Speaker 1 (01:29:32):
Yeah, they're cool.

Speaker 2 (01:29:36):
And then the second episode.

Speaker 1 (01:29:37):
You know the magneto stuff like set up like the no,
we're for real, like this is forreal like the larger plot of
the season.

Speaker 2 (01:29:40):
So I it does make me think like they're somewhat
confident in these, in in thisshow, to pair the first two
episodes together.
That you know so much thatit'll, it'll set things up and
uh, hopefully the internetchills a little bit with, uh,
the theorizing Cause, cause,relax Everyone, just just relax,
100%.
Um, but that's it from me, fromthe careful man, careful from

(01:30:03):
the Jimmy Woo, the podcast, oohhey shut up, shut up.
Oh dear, oh dear.

Speaker 1 (01:30:13):
That's what Agatha should have said when the
Scarlet Witch came out.
Oh dear, oh dear.
That's what Agatha should havesaid when the Scarlet Witch came
out.

Speaker 2 (01:30:16):
Oh dear, that was actual Beast.

Speaker 1 (01:30:18):
when Monica arrived in the other universe.
Oh, dear Kelsey Grammer,everybody, he's the best.
Kelsey Grammer loves playingBeast Dude.
I'm telling you, make thatwhatever universe the X-Men 97,
just have it be the modern dayX-Men.
That Monica showed up inMonica's in an X-Men universe
and like that just got brushedunder the rug With Maria, with

(01:30:39):
Maria Crazy stuff.
Yeah, we gotta go, man.

Speaker 2 (01:30:42):
Yeah, we do gotta go.
Alright, guys, we'll see younext week for the review of the
first two episodes of Agatha.
All along Can't believe it's.
It feels like it took way toolong, but also like it's already
here, like it's here now.

Speaker 1 (01:30:54):
It's mid-September, we did it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:55):
Time doesn't exist.
Yeah, so yeah, that'll be agood time.
I'm ready for it.
Until then, goodbye, peace.

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134 - Revisiting The Genesis of Marvel on Disney Plus: WandaVision

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}134 - Revisiting The Genesis of Marvel on Disney Plus: WandaVision