137 - Unraveling Blade's Delay & Unpacking What Went Wrong With Joker 2 - The Project Infinite Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's the Infinite.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
Podcast Go tell your friends it's the Infinite
Podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:05):
My God, it never ends .
It's the Infinite Podcast withRobin Korker-Kill.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of
the Project Infinite Podcast,the podcast covering the
infinite and ever-expandingmultiverse of fandom, from
movies, comics, tv shows, videogames.
We got you covered.
I'm Rob.
I'm here, as always, with Court, court.
We took a couple weeks off andnow we're back.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
We are back.
We're back with breaking newswe are back with breaking news.
Somebody get the fish fromSpongebob.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
We got breaking news.
The Situation Room.
The Situation Room with WolfBlitzer.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
With Mission Impossible's Wolf.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Blitzer With Cinema's Wolf Blitzer.
He is Cinema's Wolf Blitzer.
He's been in things, he's beenin things.
But yeah, we do have breakingnews surrounding Marvel and
Blade.
It's never coming out.
It's not good news.
So Blade has been delayedindefinitely and there are no
plans for a new release date,which is about as bad a news

(01:17):
that you could think.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yep, and I mean my first thing and my first thought
is to Mahershala Ali.
I mean he's gonna walk awayfrom this.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
I mean, I think he probably already walked away.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
That's why they delayed it indefinitely.
I haven't Well, now that's notgoing to happen because of the
lanterns thing, but I do have aneye.
There is a scenario whereMahershala steps away and they
get a new blade.
That's the only thing I canthink of.
But you made such a big dealout of this and I don't know if

(01:50):
we're going to mention it, butthe way that agatha has been
cooking the last couple weekslike we were not expecting that
show to be, to be that good andjust the your, your magic side
of the mcu, that kind of quarterhas been to your point, maybe
the most stable in the last fouryears has been that magical or
not the magical, just the cultyeah, like the occult side of
the universe between like thedoctor, strange movies, um, all

(02:11):
the stuff they've done with thescarlet witch across multiple
projects now, um, werewolf bynight was really really good, um
.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
So yeah, I feel like as far as like consistency
they're like a cult, kind ofspooky, kind of magical,
mystical, that type of realmthat corner has been really
solid, um, and it just makes mewonder.
I think they're just gonna rollthe character into something
else.
I don't think.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Well, I mean do do you not do midnight suns or do
you just worry about secret warsright now?
Because I think this was also awaiting game.
I think they jumped the gun andwe're like all right.
Maher shhala Ali you know twotime Oscar winner, mahershala
Ali, high cinemas.
Mahershala Ali said I want to doa Marvel thing, like put him in
a Marvel thing.
It doesn't matter what he isand he's blade, and it should be

(02:54):
simple.
You, you would think how simplecould this be?
And apparently it's just not.
This is such a difficultprocess to be had.
But I wonder, because I know,uh, james, uh samuels was was
attached to this for a second toto take over the directing home
, which would have been awesomeif you saw the harder they fall.
That would have been an awesomechoice, but I have a feeling

(03:16):
the delayed indefinitely, Ithink.
Maher shawley said I'm done, II can't believe you guys did
this to me and I'll also doubledown to.
I will not be surprised ifmarshall skips to the other side
of time and goes to goes withjames gunn in the dcu yeah, I
mean the guy, I mean I.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
He hasn't what's he been in recently I don't think
he's.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
I'm trying to think of what he's done.
Uh, what's the movie on netflix?
Um, when the world was ending?
Yeah, that was the.
That's the last thing.
I can remember him off the topof my head.
He had that other show on AppleTV as well too.
But or the movie on Apple TV.
But you know, like I said,that's two time Oscar winner,
mahershala Ali, and you knowwhat I think too.
I think he was promised thingsby Marvel, and I also think that

(03:56):
he probably spent a lot of histime and mental capacity on this
project to make sure it's right.
I mean, you're you're bringingout a legacy that Wesley Snipes
owned for a little bit, and thenWesley Snipes comes back in the
last year.
It's frustrating for lack of abetter term that we talk about
projects being a little bit moredifficult.
Obviously, we're not experts onthis, but using context, clues

(04:22):
and deductions, you can kind ofassume that a Blade project
shouldn't be too overtlycomplicated to make.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
Well, I mean, we're going to talk about another
thing in a couple minutes.
People are making vampirethings and it doesn't seem to be
overly complicated, right?
So we're going to talk aboutthat in a couple minutes.
But yeah, I mean, this justspells to me that they're going
to shut down the idea of makinga Blade movie, yeah, yep, and
just roll him into somethingelse.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
Or if they even roll him into something else.
Maybe they're going to wait fora couple years.
Maybe they wait until, I mean,it's 2024.
It's about to be 2025.
We know the slate through what?
2027?
Or most of the slate through2027?
.
We may not see this characteruntil like28, 2029.
That's not wesley snipes if hewere to come back in secret wars
I was gonna say I have this, Ihave this.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Not, I guess it is a fear um that if they do roll the
character until like a midnightsuns, I think they would just
use wesley snipes especially now.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah, because if you were to do midnight suns in
between this and secret wars,you would probably do a
multi-version, multiversalversion.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
So I mean he looks, to be honest, like he looks
blades of vampire first of all,like he's kind of this ageless
thing.
So like you could justconceivably, if wesley snipes
wanted to do it, you couldconceivably just make him yep,
because what's he doing?

Speaker 1 (05:36):
right, you can.
You can get ghost rider out ofthis as well too, and you have
two options for that.
Obviously, their first choicewould be nicholas cage, but you
still have um, you still havediego or gabriel luna right, and
the winds too, so you haveoptions to pull if they want to
do this idea.
I just, I mean the overall,overall.
It's just it's a shame, it isvery a shame that I don't know

(05:57):
the behind the scenes of whathappened.
I don't want to speculate onanything like that, but it's
just.
You know, you know, from myopinion, it's just it's tough to
see somebody like MahershalaAli not be able to get that
crown in the MCU and really be apillar at that point too.
I mean, I just don't understand.
And the actors that they had inthere too and I guarantee you,
aaron Pierre probably tooklanterns after this movie fell

(06:19):
through, so some of their agentsprobably knew that this movie
wasn't going to happen at somepoint too.
Yeah, because he was supposedto play one of the villains in
this movie, probably the mainvillain, and then Delroy Lindo
in this movie as well, and youknow, it just feels like I don't
know why this couldn't havebeen prioritized or maybe cut
into a show.
I don't understand why this wasso difficult.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
I don't know and I mean I guess we'll never know um
yeah it's just a shame, becauseI think everyone was really
looking forward to seeing oh mygod, remember the 2019 comic-con
announcement if man, that wasfive years ago it was five years
ago, that's.
And nothing, nothing likenothing, came of it.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
That's so, that's that movie should have came out
plausibly at the very latest2023, and I mean the absolute
latest.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
I mean not to not to be like the both sides of this,
but if this was like a dc thing,people would be like they're
done.
Yep, you know what I mean.
Like this is it?
Yada, yada.
But because it's marvel, likeit's probably gonna be one of
those things that just kind oflike is a blip as soon as, like
the daredevil trailer comes out,like everyone's, everyone's
gonna forget about this, whichis unfortunate, because they
should be held to a betterstandard than than letting this

(07:29):
project rot for five years.
Yeah, essentially, um, butmoving on, um, speaking of
vampires, um, christopher nolannot christopher nolan has come
out, but it has been revealedyeah um, or reported, I suppose
that, uh, christopher nolan'snext film is getting ready to
rock and roll and it is tell meif you've heard this plot before

(07:50):
.
Okay, it's a vampire film.
Okay, set in the 1920s is it?

Speaker 1 (07:56):
is it ron coogler's new movie?
No, you would think that.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
But no, um, this is gonna be christopher nolan's new
movie, um, reportedly starringtom holland and christopher
nolan favorite matt damon.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
Yeah I think that's pretty cool, and I mean, from
this junction, I I'm assumingthat tom holland's gonna be the
main character of this thing andthey're gonna yeah, he's gonna
keep utilizing matt damon in thesame way where matt damon's
kind of your, he could be your,your supporting character.
Yeah, character to age, yourmain character.
Yeah, shout out to Tom Holland,who I think people tend to

(08:28):
forget.
He's an actual, real world,really good actor too, and I
think something like this is.
I think this is something heneeded at this point too.
So you got both sides of thecoin.
I mean his next couple of years, like I'm glad he got to take
that break.
I know he talked about somestruggles with alcoholism.
He was having some toughpersonal times, so it's nice to
see he got to take that break.
Zendaya's his girlfriend that'sawesome.

(08:50):
And now he's ready to get backinto the fold of Marvel.
He's ready to get back with oneof the greatest directors to
ever live, christopher Nolan, tobe the main character.
I think that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, I agree.
I mean Nolan is one of those,obviously he, yeah, I agree.
Um, I mean nolan is one ofthose, obviously, obviously he's
one of those directors thatwe've talked about in previous
weeks where as soon as his thinggets announced, people start
getting excited for it.
I mean, you know, oppenheimerjust became one of the biggest
movies of all time, um, and Imean the guy's resume is pretty

(09:20):
bulletproof.
So you know, and this is, youknow, it's following the nolan
trend of like you do thehistorical thing and then you do
like the kind of wacky thing,um, so this is the kind of wacky
thing and I guess he hadavenues too, and I mean, in my
head I was thinking about thistoo.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
I have.
There's probably a an alternatefuture where he did tenant two,
because I think people werewere clamoring for that, to get
the back half of that story, orthe un-back half of that story.
What's Tenet?

Speaker 2 (09:48):
2 about or what's Tenet about.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
We need a three-week period to discuss Tenet.
But no, at the end of the day,like you said, he is the.
I announce something peoplewill be there, and I was talking
about this too.
His soundscape for Oppenheimerunlocked the door to do a horror
project.
That's where I'll keep it at,because, you know, if you really
want to get technical aboutthings, you know of what the

(10:14):
definition of horror is.
Nolan has that unlocked, andit's been the last two movies
that he did were kind of wherehe's really started to dive into
it, especially in Oppenheimer 2.
This is going to be reallyinteresting.
I'm going to call it now.
Cillian Murphy's going to be inthis movie too.
He'll call him for something.
I would say so, but I'mintrigued.
I'm intrigued to see him diveinto horror as well.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
I can't wait for more Christopher Nolan movie casting
announcements that we're goingto do in the future.
Oh, we're going to do in thefuture, oh we're going to have
to lead with it each time, everyweek, as soon as we find out
what the title of this movie is.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
Anybody else you'd like to see in this movie.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
Oh, I mean, I don't even know.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
Like it could literally be anyone.
I'm trying to think of somebodythat would be cool in here A
horror movie.
Michael B Jordan.
Michael B Jordan?
No, which twin movie?
Michael b jordan?
Michael b jordan?
No, which twin is it?
It's the, it's the triplet.
I feel like oscar eisek wouldbe cool in something like this.
I don't know why.
I just popped into my head.
I feel like he can play thathorror element.
Really well, hear me out, letmaher shawley play.

(11:20):
Play martian manhunter.
No, that's interesting.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
I'd be into that, I think.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yeah, I like that.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
Batman and Dune are going to be filming, and Greg
Frazier will be apparentlyavailable for both, much to the
delight of both Matt Reeves andDenis Villeneuve, I'm sure, and
Korn Probably much more to thedelight of Matt Reeves, because
it feels like greg frazier wasgoing to do dune regardless.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
Yeah, he know and I mean you, you look at like the
lands, you can talk landscapedirectors, you look landscape
cinematographers.
I mean it's it's greg frazieris quickly turning into like the
modern art tour ofcinematography because it was
roger deakins.
And then it's kind of like italmost feels in a weird way like
roger deakins passed the torchto greg frazier because it's

(12:08):
like greg frazier was the firstone to kind of revolutionize the
volume and make sure it wassomething that was credible to
two projects and much to ourpoint, that we've talked about
before, that other people feellike they don't know how to how
to get the full scale of it.
It's like, no, you actuallystill have to approach this like
a film.
You can't just put the volumeback there and just expect
things to happen.
I mean, he is one of thegreatest that's ever going to

(12:30):
live to do what he does.
So to get him for both is just,I mean, nerdy.
Me is like thank god, and I wasthinking about that too,
especially, like you said, forthe batman.
That was the one that I wasconcerned for.
I mean, the penguin looks good.
It actually looks really good.
It's a really well-shot show,but at the end of the day
there's just little quirks thatyou can't get from the person
that's behind there.
So, like we always talk about,it's not about the thing, it's

(12:51):
about the people doing the thing.
So, getting Greg Fraser backfor Batman 2, I think that movie
is going to be absolutelystellar, interstellar.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Come on man, yeah, no , I totally agree.
Come on man, yeah, no, Itotally agree.
I think obviously it worked outfor, like I said, more so for
Matt Reeves Because, like I said, he was going to do Dune
regardless it felt like Samestudio?

Speaker 1 (13:15):
yes, both Warner Brothers, yeah.
Do you think that they madesure that that happened that way
for Greg?
Do you think Greg Frazier movesmountains like that?

Speaker 2 (13:21):
I was thinking about that this morning, this well in
the wake of what happened withthe joker, I think warner
brothers probably needs all thewins they can get right now.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
Um so, yeah, um and other another that puts a we're
gonna talk about in a little bit, but that puts a lot of
pressure on james gunn like evenmore added pressure that he
wasn't probably banking onhaving yep, um.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
so, uh, luca guadagnino is going to be making
a remake of American Psycho.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yes, Good stuff.
Now it's.
It's awesome because he's sucha dynamic filmmaker, in the
sense too, and I it's crazybecause he's been doing this for
a little bit, but it's it's thelast seven years that he's
really kind of really hit thegas in his career.
So you know, I mean call me byyour name, bones and all, and
then challengers, I career.
So you know, I mean call me byyour name, bones and all, and
then challengers.

(14:05):
I mean this, this guy isabsolutely incredible.
And I mean challengers.
This year is going to be up foroscars.
Um, obviously, call me by yourname was up for oscars.
I mean this, this is probablygoing to be the same thing, in
my opinion, in american psycho.
I don't see.
Here's the thing.
So luca guadagnino does thething where he goes, uh, he goes
goes to Italy and he meets withan actor, and he did it with

(14:26):
Timothee Chalamet.
You know who he did it with andwho I think is going to
actually play the AmericanPsycho.
It's probably going to be JacobElordi, because he met with him
.
There's the pictures.
I can see that.
I can see it too.
I can see it too.
You know who would be fun.
I was thinking about it thismorning um lewis pullman would
be fun for something like thatyeah, I mean, you know, this is,

(14:50):
we're in this.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
This is the era where we're in, we're in remake era.
We're, we're, we're that oldnow we're, we're remaking films
that that we're aware of, um,and that makes it incredibly
difficult.
Obviously, american Psycho, oneof the greatest movies of all
time, christian Bale obviouslyputs up an all-time performance

(15:11):
as Patrick Bateman.
So I think, with this and anyremake, I think you have to
immediately establish thatyou're not trying to replicate
what was and you're trying to doyour own thing.
I think that should be thethrough line for any project,
regardless of genre, regardlessof platform.
Um, I think that needs to bepriority a is not to replicate

(15:33):
what was, but try you have toput your own spin on it and
that's the bones and all in theroom, of luca guadagnino's
career.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
I mean there's a and a weird sense in that movie and
I and it's it's oxymonic, but Iguess it's why that movie works
so well.
That movie's tender, that moviehas a tender undertone to it
and I mean this is we're talkingabout a movie about you know,
that has elements, not elements.
This movie is about you know,cannibals for lack of a better
term but you know something likethat you're going to need.

(16:00):
That's why that tenderness andI mean call me by your name has
that through and through.
That's why you get somebodylike luca guadagnino, because
you need to sell it.
You need to sell like that.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
This absolute psychopath is somehow you can
root for, which is funny of thesource material we're talking
about for this week just goingand just going further into,
like I'm thinking of christianbale's look in american psychos
specifically, do you think hewould tap chalamet for this?
No no, because they do.

(16:31):
They do work together.
Not at all quite frequently, Idon't think so.
Because they do kind of.
They kind of got a look I thinkhe wants.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
I think he wants somebody new, I think he wants a
crack at somebody new and, likeI said, I feel like the way
jacob alordi's career is going,this would be the perfect thing,
because he's like he's he'sthis tall, like pretty boy that
everybody loves right now I feellike he would be like he.
He is a good choice to playpatrick bateman yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
No, I think that's a great idea.
Um, I just have in here therunning man yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
so glenn powell's new movie that Edgar writes back,
yes, channel favorite, edgarwrites back.
So, um, obviously we we've beentalking the last couple, you
know the last few weeks about.
You know how incredible Greg,uh, glenn Powell is.
I mean, oh, his birthday wasyesterday, just turned 36.
So glenn powell as well too.
But, um, glenn powell isgetting that movie star praise

(17:24):
too, of like, glenn powell is ina thing.
You go see the thing and I meanI'm overtly excited to see josh
roland also in this movie.
Well, yeah, josh roland's inthis movie, lee pace is in this
movie as well too, and katieo'brien and if katie o'brien and
I were to get in a fistfight,pray for me, because she would
annihilate me, um, but yeah, and.

(17:45):
And then they also just addedJane Lawson, who played Bella
Real in the Batman as well, too,to play his love interest in
this movie.
So I'm super excited.
I don't know what this is goingto be about.
I don't know if it's fromsomething.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
I think this is well this is a remake of the 1987
film, I think.
I think it came out in 1987.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
kind of like a cult classic um right the running man
yep um but I mean in edgarwright we trust.
I mean, you look at edgarwright's body of work edgar
wright's like.
He's almost to that wesanderson range where it's like
you.
Once you know people arecopying the thing that you do,
that you're good at the thingthat you do.
That's where edgar wright's at.
So I'm super excited.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
I can't wait to see something like this too yeah,
and I mean, you know it's, it'sborrowing kind of, you know,
take your charismatic lead, likeschwarzenegger was was the lead
in the 1987 film.
So you're basically justswapping out schwarzenegger for
glenn powell and letting, androland obviously will be playing
the villain.
So, yeah, I'm really lookingforward to it.

(18:46):
Man, more bad news.
So a couple bad news items onthe video game adaptation front.
So Insomniac paired the launchof Spider-Man 2 on PC with the
news that they will not bepursuing any additional DLC for
Spider-Man 2 on PC, with thenews that they will not be
pursuing any additional DLC forSpider-Man 2, which I am

(19:11):
surprised by.
But also I think it was aresult of the leak that happened
, however, many months ago.
I think Insomniac was just likeyou know what?
No, we're not doing it.
The leak came out.
There were plans for a Venomthing.
Um, there were plans for, like,a venom thing.
There were plans for, obviously, a carnage dlc, a couple other
dlcs and I think, because as aresult of that leak, I think

(19:32):
insomniac just shut it down, um,and they're just washing their
hands of spider man 2, which didwell, um, it wasn't as
monumental as the first one asfar as sales, as far as just
reception, and I think they justmade a decision that they're

(19:53):
just kind of done with it andfair play to them.
They're obviously working onthe Wolverine game and, like I
said, I think they just decidedthat it's probably just not
worth it and any DLC plans thatthey did have, they could
potentially roll into Spider-Man3.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
That's exactly what I think is going to happen.
They're just going to remixeverything.
Maybe you start the openingmission with the Carnage DLC,
you make that the big openingmission and then there's the
little Sandman Easter eggs inSpider-Man 2.
Maybe you do that with Carnagethroughout the third game and
then you just focus on I think Italked about it too and it's
funny we said that too, becauseI think we were comparing Jedi

(20:32):
Survivor to Spider-Man 2, and asmuch as I really like that
Spider-Man 2 game, there'sreasons why Jedi Survivor even
kicks it up a notch.
That game gets so personal.
That game gets overtly personaland I think it's that sole
focus is what drives it throughthat third act of that game to
spider-man 2.
It still has that.
You know those personal bits,but I feel like it's a little

(20:54):
too broad, like it still feelsso broad at the end.
There's so much happening to.
Your brain is so clogged by thetime you hit, like the black,
the final sequence in that gameof what you're trying to do the
city's turning upside like itgets so crazy.
But Jedi Survivor feels very,very tailored to what you're
trying to do to get after.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah, I mean retroactively and having a lot
of distance I have not playedSpider-Man 2 again since it came
out and just having a lot ofdistance, I think there is an
element of the game.
They packed a lot into it.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, um and credit to them, Like they they.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
It was like one of those things where, like, we're
going to push this thing like tothe boundaries of of what you
think is possible.
We're going to let you switchseamlessly between Peter and
miles.
But I think the story didsuffer a bit because of that.
Like, I think they tried to.
Obviously they tried to givePeter and miles like two
different yet also interwovenarcs and I feel like they just
didn't give themselves I don'tknow if it was because of them

(21:53):
or it was because of Sony kindof pushing them a little bit to
like get this thing out.
Um, I think that game definitelycould have benefited from a
little bit more development time.
Um, and I think the moredevelopment time, and I think
another reason they're doingthis and another reason why I
think they're going to roll alot of these DLC ideas into
Spider-Man 3, is because I thinkthey're going to take their
time with Spider-Man 3, and Ithink they're going to give us a

(22:15):
game to remember like a bonafide game of the year, right
contender.
Like I think they they're veryself-aware studio.
I think they they recognizekind of the you know the, the
criticisms justified or not.
I think they're aware of thecriticisms of spider-man 2 and
they're going to really taketheir time with spider-man 3 and
give it pretty much give giveit everything that they have.

(22:37):
Yeah, um is what I think they'rethey're gearing up for.
Yeah, um, and then, in othernews, so the god of war live
action series that amazon hashit a couple speed bumps, um,
and by a couple speed bumps Imean that the showrunner and
multiple producers have left theshow after multiple script
rights, um, that apparentlyamazon was very happy with.

(22:57):
Um, but the studio just wantsto move in a direction,
different direction, and I'mcurious of what that different
direction could possibly be.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
I'm at a crossroads here because I'm thinking that
this is kind of a creativedifference in the sense of I
have a feeling that Amazon wantsit a little bit more.
Getting towards that falloutline of this thing is very
gritty and graphic.
But then maybe some of thosecreators like no, we need to
make this more.
You know what I'm thinking.

(23:27):
They we need to make this moreof like a superhero thing.
How we approach superherothings Like Kratos needs to be
like this, and I'm, like youprobably want to pick that
fallout lane, because fallout isprobably fought in.
The last of us are the best twovideo game adaptations that
like don't take away any of thebrutality, don't take any of
that away, and maybe it's alsobecause they can't crack which
god of war they want to pick Ithink that's part of it.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
I think they they are stuck in a crossroads between
doing the greek stuff and doingthe norse stuff we kind of we
said it one week why don't youdo both?

Speaker 1 (23:58):
you do, you do, you have it.
You do the norse thing.
You start at god of war 2018that's the freshest in people's
mind and then you retroactivelyhave flashbacks to Kratos being
an absolute menace for the Greekpantheon.
I think that would be a greatapproach to that game.
And then, as much as Atreus islearning about his father, also

(24:18):
Kratos is learning about himself, or relearning about himself,
and formulating those things tobecome a better person and a
better father yeah, yeah, Iagree, I think it's just.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
It's just interesting that they got through multiple
script rewrites that you knoweveryone seemed pretty happy
with and they're just like, yeah, we're gonna start this thing
over from the ground up andmaybe this is for the best as
well, maybe because obviouslythe success of fallout really
dictates.
And then amazon prime as a whole, and we probably got one more
piece of news about Amazonitself and they have that secret

(24:47):
level show coming out thatKratos is going to be in one of
the episodes as part of aPlaystation focused episode of
that show, which I still don'tknow what that show is, but I'm
still interested to find out.
And then we have Dune Prophecy.
Dune, dune prophecy got atrailer.
Um, best way I can describethis trailer is spooky game of

(25:10):
thrones spooky game of thrones.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
Um, it does look technically sound, it looks
solid.
I mean, I don't have much, Idon't.
I don't have a lot, I'm just.
This is one of those things.
It's.
I'm going to take the penguinapproach.
I'm.
You know, first you had mycuriosity, but now you have my
attention, like I kind of wantto see this world rounded out, I
want to see how much this isgoing to influence anything.
And then you know, vice versa,like which way it's going to

(25:33):
work.
Yep, and you know, that's whythe penguin is working so
overtly well right now isbecause it is its own entity.
Yep, but it is such a greatlesson and how you, how you
understand this operates in theuniverse.
But I have to own this, likewe're gonna own this thing as
our own, but it's still gonnawork inside the confines of the
universe.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
But we'll break where we need to break yeah, I mean I
I told you when we talked aboutthis show like it's gonna be
interesting to see what dune'sactual kind of like staying
power is and what they're, whatwhat dune's popularity truly is,
or if it's just a result ofthese two really great movies
that came out.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
You have all these A-list actors on top.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
Are people really inherently interested enough in
the lore of Dune to justify?

Speaker 1 (26:18):
this show Full transparency.
Dune's lore is not easy.
That is a tough lore.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
It's not like a Marvel thing.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
Or even Star Wars.
When we reviewed dune 2 it'swhy it made dune 1.
In my opinion, I still thoughtdune 1 was close to a master
class.
In my opinion, I still think itis, but dune 2 made dune 1 at
retroactively better because andthen vice versa, because dune 1
simplified all that crazy,insane lore and made it.
These are the things you needto remember.
Once we hit two, it's just likea good video game.
We're running like you, don't?

Speaker 2 (26:49):
we're running on the ground yeah, yeah, and so I'm
super.
I mean, the trailer looked good.
Um, like I said, it gave likethat game of thrones type of
vibe in space.
Um, and, like I said, I'minterested to see how it pans
out.
Um, daredevil.
Daredevil got an officialrelease date via New York Comic
Con.
Obviously, it's a Comic Con, sopeople are obviously going to

(27:10):
leak trailers online and releasedates and such.
So March 4th is going to be theDaredevil release date and
there was another trailer shown,not much different than the
first trailer.
It still strikes that tone andit just seems like they're going
.
They recognize what made thenetflix show so popular and so
good and it feels like they'renot mirroring that.

(27:32):
But they are trying to capturethat um spirit and I think
that's a good thing.
Yeah, I mean I am.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
It is my favorite character.
This is my favorite marvelcharacter that there's ever been
.
So obviously I, I probably, Iprobably have a little bit more
bias, but I saw VincentD'Onofrio and Charlie Cox kind

(28:00):
of talking about the thingthat's inherently going to give
you at least one leg up.
Funny enough that venom'sgetting these reviews right now,
because it just seems likeeverybody's on the same page of
what type of movie they'remaking.
Like that's going to make yourmovie just the slightest bit
better.
Let it be the slightest bitbetter, but at the end of the
day, I could not be more excited.
I thought this wasn't going tocome out for a little longer
than that.

(28:20):
So march 4th I'll take that anyday of the week as well too.
I'm chomping at the bitch tosee that full HD trailer as well
too, but I mean this might beone of the biggest ones they can
get for being like not likeevent television, like
serialized television thatDisney Plus can probably use.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
Yeah, this is the one , this is the staple.
This is going to be the onethat propels Disney Plus forward
into 2025.
It's going to be this show.
I don't think there's any doubtabout that.
It also is to the blade pointthat we talked about earlier.
It does give Marvel a littlebit of justification, a little
bit of rope, if this Daredevilshow is as good as it appears to

(29:01):
be, in the sense that this showwas also mired by production
problems, um, it was rewritten,it was torn down, started,
started over from the beginning,like, and that got people
really nervous, and now this isthe finished product, right, um,
but the difference between this, this and blade is, I think,
with daredevil I think it wasthis, for some reason on
marvel's part, this hesitancy toto kind of lean on the netflix

(29:24):
stuff like they wanted to createsomething different well, also,
at that point there was nosense of don't do anything
r-rated for disney, right, don'tdo anything like that and put
that on disney plus.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
That's a big no-no.
And then, once we hearddeadpool and wolverine was going
to be r-rated, and then,obviously, the way it works in
hollywood, they, they know, andpeople talk like studios talk.
So, like they probably knew,and like Kevin Feige knew, he
was like early, early Deadpooland Wolverine they probably
started to show clips after theyshot.
They were like, ok, this isgoing to work.
And then, obviously, a billiondollars later, they're like oh,

(29:56):
do whatever you want R-rated atthis point, you can do whatever
the heck you want, everybodywill be fine with it.
So I think there was an elementof that as well too, of like
understanding we can't do, we dothe netflix gritty stuff and
like what was the first leaks,that and the original script he
wasn't gonna suit up for likefour episodes like no, no, like
that's that's none of thereturning cast.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
We're gonna come back .

Speaker 1 (30:16):
Besides, charlie cock , that was not for you and
that's, and I thank god andthat's a good idea.
If somebody probably walked inthe room and looked what the
heck are you guys doing?

Speaker 2 (30:24):
Don't overcomplicate.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
Exactly Like what are you.
Why are you reinventing thewheel Like this works?

Speaker 2 (30:29):
Literally reinventing the wheel, yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
This works for a reason Just keep doing the thing
, keep doing that, bring back,get innovative.
Now you get innovative whatwith what you want to do.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
Yeah, just get everybody back, slot them in and
let them keep doing Daredevil.
Just keep letting them doDaredevil.
So yeah, I'm super excited forthis show.
And then the last bit of majornews that we have to cover
because we didn't get to talkabout it is Kyle Chandler and
Aaron Pierre.

(31:01):
Both are official for Lanternsas Hal Jordan and Jon Stewart
Thoughts.
Outstanding, outstanding.
Al Chandler and Aaron Pierreboth are official for lanterns
as um Hal Jordan and JohnStewart Thoughts.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
Outstanding, outstanding.
Um, it's funny cause obviouslyI'm really, really, really
excited about Aaron Pierre, tothe point where I called it
before he was even rumored to bean.
I said Aaron, and it was afterI watched rebel Ridge.
I was like, oh yeah, that thatWell.
I mean, it's the same kind ofconcept that I feel for Glenn
Powell.
He's about to be.
He's going to be like one ofthe next up movie stars as well,

(31:29):
too.
It sucks.
He couldn't do Blade, thoughLike I feel like being a villain
in the MCU on top of that couldhave helped him a bit Well it
might be better.
Yeah, it might be better thathe's not at this point.
It might be better for him, butI mean nonetheless, aaron
Pierre, obviously I was excited.
I called that before.
The one I was super keen aboutwas Kyle Chandler as Hal Jordan,
because I know the approachthey're going to take.
I know what you're doing, james.

(31:51):
You're getting the JusticeLeague Unlimited lineup to be
the.
It makes all the sense in theworld.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
It makes total sense.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
It makes all the sense in the world.
That makes complete sense toget the Justice League Unlimited
lineup.
It's a different approach thanwe've ever seen before.
I mean, we've only gotten one.
It's crazy that we've gottenfour Avengers movies soon to be
six before we're going to get asecond Justice League movie with
more popular that's a morepopular team and it's kind of

(32:17):
crazy too, the way.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
If that's the route that he's going and I think it
is it is kind of crazy that he'skind of like building it
backwards.
Yeah, like besides Superman,right, like he has a Superman,
which is obviously, I think, bydesign.
Mm-hmm, I think he wantedSuperman first, but then he's
also kind of building.
Now he's going like Like if youlook at Justice, like the

(32:39):
Justice, this end of thespectrum, and then like green
lanterns, like in there in themiddle, and then he gets to like
martian man, hunter, hawk girl,cyborg, etc.
And like he's building thatback half and he's leaving the
wonder woman, flash and batmanspots open.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
And I also think that's by design yep, I think he
wants to see how it plays and Ithink he's going through.
The batman one is the.
I think the batman one and thewonder woman one are the two
that he's super like.
I need the Batman one.
He needs to nail that Batmanone because A Batman's Batman.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
You have another Batman already.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
And B.
There's another Batman runningthat a lot of people, including
myself, are like super keen tolike that's their favorite
Batman.
Oh, and Aquaman Aquaman, hehasn't killed yet either, which
I think he's going to hold onthat I don't think he's going
to't think he's gonna.
I think he's gonna hold onaquaman for a little bit, just
because, I mean, that was thelast dc eu movie was aquaman too
, so he's probably gonna hold.
And jason momoa is like a name,so he's probably gonna hold a

(33:31):
bit.
But obviously, like I said,that kyle chandler pick is so
good, that's such a good pick,it's great because, they're
gonna do a little bit of amentorship aspect of it as well
too.
I think that, think that's socool.
And the true detective aspect,and I mean, look at his approach
to Peacemaker.
Every time I see, like you know, the Shire fans like on Twitter
being, like you know, he'sgoing to ruin the DCU.

(33:53):
I said when would we ever getthat idea that he was going to
do that?
I mean, he turned in one of thebest Marvel movies.
He turned in two of the bestMarvel movies that we've ever
seen.
Then he just follows up withthe Suicide Squad and, to that
point, the best movie in theDCEU, right In the DCEU.
That's the best movie which theSuicide Squad.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
And then he follows it up with the character that we
hated from that movie in full180s that character with John
Cena.
180s that character, yeah.
And then he goes back and makesguardians 3 and now we're
concerned.
I don't understand, I don't getit, yeah yeah, yeah, it's kind
of ridiculous.
I'm full at the point, andespecially once I get that first
trailer for superman, which hesaid it's not close enough to be

(34:38):
like you, but it's, it is closeenough to like get myself
excited.
That's what he said at the YorkComic Con.
I mean it's going to be theSuper Bowl right.
That's what I'm assuming.
February for July yeah, it'seither that or he's going to do
the holiday season.
He's going to do November.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
I think they're just going to hold it for the Super
Bowl.
Yeah, the Super Bowl would be.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
That's a good first, it's a Superman movie they're
gonna and I guarantee youthey're gonna market the heck
out of that movie.
They're gonna, and like how,and make sure it's like this,
especially now.
Yeah, this is the hard stop.
This is it.
Like this is the new directionforward.
But I mean, on the greenlantern front, like that shows
like you made a good point likesomething's looming in the winds

(35:18):
, like this is like this isintricate setup that I think I
think he's doing, like he's likethere's some conspiracy which I
think is going to end up beingthe black lantern core.
Like just one murder that thegreen lanterns have to get the
guardians.
I don't know.
Like can you guys go check thatout?

Speaker 2 (35:32):
no, we don't want to do it yeah, I, I think it's
super smart and, like I said, Ijust continue to be encouraged
by um, by what he's buildingover there, um, because dot dot,
dot, dot, dot, dot, dot dot.
We are finally going to talkabout Joker 2.
Joker 2, fully due.
Released a few weeks ago intheaters, the much-anticipated

(35:55):
sequel to Joker that starred,obviously, Joaquin Phoenix won
him an Oscar, accolades galore,billion dollars, critical
acclaim, you know.
And that naturally led to youknow, does he the disease of
more.
In the case of Warner brotherswas like hey, todd Phillips, can

(36:17):
you make me, can you make usanother one of these?
And Todd Phillips said I don'treally want to, um, and they
were like here's $200 million.
And Todd Fellows said all right, I'll do it.

Speaker 1 (36:31):
Which I still think he didn't want to do it.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
No, and this movie has one of the most interesting
production arcs I think I'veever seen.
It stars obviously, joaquinPhoenix returns and, most
notably, lady Gaga enters theforay as Harley Quinn.

(36:54):
I think this movie again hadthat oscillation of anticipation
, in the sense that we're doingJoker and Harley Cool.
I think that's a great idea.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
We're gonna do a musical that's where you lost
some people you lost some people.
You didn't lose me because Ithought I thought that could be
a super cool idea I don'tunderstand, because of all the
comic book characters that youcan find and if you were going
to do a musical, the joker isthe number one choice that you
would ever think to do.
That that's the, in my opinion.
That that was like.
I was immediately like, okay,now I'm actually really into

(37:28):
this.
This that makes the most senseout of anything.
Yeah, um, but it just takesaway your modern male
sensibilities.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
If there's music yeah , we got that first trailer,
which was fine, but also was thetrailer where I saw and I went
and I went, I I don't know.
I like people were freaking outabout the, the shot with the,
the lipstick over the, the jailwindow, and people were like
this is cinema and I'm like isit?
I was like I don't know whatthis movie is.

(37:55):
Um, and then the what's?
I'm trying to piece together.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
Timeline second trailer happened.
Yes, oh no, was this?
No, no, the todd phillips stuffyes, the todd phillips stuff.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
When they were like, oh, isn't it cool, you're making
a musical, and he's like it'snot a musical and I'm like isn't
it guys?
I think that's a musical.
Um, the todd phillips stuff,yeah.
So, and what we later found outis that he refused
collaboration with, with DC.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Yeah, With gun and Safran.
I think they only said the one.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
that one liaison was the only one he was kind of in
contact with, but like gun andgun and Peter Safran, he was
like which goes goes to mybigger conspiracy theory about
this movie that I think we bothagree on, Um, that we'll talk
about when we start talkingabout the movie.
Um, then there was the, theVenice film festival thing, this
movie screen, and people werelike, oh, this movie is no good,

(38:50):
Like just fly out.
Like, like people were likethis movie is not good and I'm
like how bad could it be?
You know, Um, and then you know, just as the week's days
started approaching, I'm like Idon't know if I'm that excited
for this movie.
Like, I'm just not.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
Things started getting weird and it was the
variety interview with, or wasit GQ or variety?
I think it was variety, yeah,and it was Lady Gaga and Joaquin
Phoenix and they everythingfelt so weird.
It's like they didn't want tobe, there Exactly Like they were
.
They like knew something was upand I know, Joaquin Phoenix is
a weird dude.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
We're not.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
I love Joaquin Phoenix.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
We're not disputing that he's a weird dude, but I
love him, yeah, he's great, he'sa great actor.
Um, so like, and you neverreally know, like, is he just
kind of like?
This is just kind of like his,his kind of tone, that he's

(39:48):
weird.
And then we saw it obviously ondifferent days from each other
and um, before we get into that,just real quick, uh, rotten
tomatoes it's never.
It's either a very good thingyeah with rotten tomatoes, where
the critics and the audienceare aligned, it's can be either
a really good thing or a reallybad thing, and in this case it's
a really bad thing.
Um, critics and audiences alike.
Um 32 on both sides, audienceand critics nobody likes this
movie.
Um, I have a theory on why thatis as well.

(40:11):
Um, and then the box office hasbeen abysmal yeah, I can't.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
That's the part I can't believe it.
I cannot believe it um.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
So the movie was budgeted around 200 million
dollars.
You know you typically willdouble that for marketing, so
you're looking at like a 400 to500 million dollar movie.
Um, it made 50 up to this date.
This date, october 22nd 2024 um56 million dollars domestically
on just a shade under 200million dollars worldwide.
It stands to be one of thebiggest sequel bombs in history,

(40:40):
if not the biggest sequel bombin history.
Um, it stands to be one ofWarner Brothers' most
financially lost movies ever.
Warner Brothers, obviously, astudio that cannot afford this
type of disaster.
And they've hit one.
It's opening weekend under boththe Marvels and Morbius, for

(41:04):
kind of just perspective on amovie that, like we said, the
first one, made a billiondollars and will release
digitally on October 29th, whichis next Tuesday, spelling the
end of its theatrical run, whichis crazy.
That being said, this movie, Ididn't enjoy it.
First and foremost which Idon't think I've ever outright

(41:25):
said on here about any moviethat we've reviewed that I just
flat out didn't enjoy it.
Technically it is still sound,the performances are good.
I think Lady Gaga and JoaquinPhoenix are both really, really
good in this movie, but I justdidn't enjoy it and, if you'll,
if you'll pardon me to, toexplicit tag this episode for

(41:46):
one specific sentence.
This movie is a massive fuckyou from todd phillips to people
who just enjoyed that firstmovie and and took certain
messaging away from the arthurfleck character that he clearly
never intended for people totake and in a lot of respects,

(42:08):
it's kind of a fuck you to justpeople who expected this to be
like a comic book movie and aJoker movie because he clearly
was not interested in thecharacter at all in the sense of
like the Joker mythos as far aslike DC comics go.
That was never his intentionand, yeah, like I, like I just

(42:29):
don't think he wanted he justyou know he made this this was a
statement movie from toddphillips to be like no, this guy
was never meant to be idolizedor revered or respected.
He is a loser and he deserves tobe treated like a loser and by
the end of the movie he is aloser ultimately and he deserves

(42:50):
.
You know he is, he is a.
He is not this mastermind whois playing the public like a
fiddle when in fact, the thepublic is playing him like a
fiddle is what is what thesecond movie is about.
He is a.
He is a mascot, apparent, youknow, essentially he's a mascot
for everyone he comes in contactwith, whether it's the.
He's a literal mascot at the atarkham asylum yeah, first of

(43:12):
all for the guards.
He's.
He's a there's no other way tothe.
He's a literal mascot at the atarkham asylum yeah, first of
all for the guards he's.
He's a.
There's no other way to sayhe's a mascot for them.
He gets kicked around.
He's tell me a joke, arthur,yada, yada.
Like everything that the end ofthat first movie built up, todd
phillips deconstructs within thefirst half hour of this movie,
in the sense that, like, he'sthis icon people, you know, he's

(43:32):
this magnanimous, kind of likecharismatic.
No, he's.
He sucks, you know, and peopletook that.
You know.
When he kills murray at the endof the first one, it's kind of
run for a gag.
In the second one, when they'relike oh, tell us a joke, arthur
.
Like it's like everything hedid in the first movie was for
nothing.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
No, I look at it from this perspective, it's the it's
, you know, it's bouncing offwhat your Arthur, like
everything he did in the firstmovie was for nothing.
No, I look at it from thisperspective.
It's, you know, it's bouncingoff what your perspective was.
I'm just going a little further.
Would you ever ask MartinScorsese to make a Goodfellas 2?
You're not.
You know, outside of the KillBills you're not asking
Tarantino to make sequels to hismovies.
You know Nolan had a superheroIP outside of that.

(44:16):
You're not asking him to makesequels except for me, for
tenant 2, but you're not.
You know, nobody's gonna belike where's the prestige too?
Because it's, in a way it feelsalmost disrespectful like I
made this high cinema thing.
So why are you asked like?
You're not gonna ask go, gomake a passion of the christ 2?
No, they are making a Passionof the Christ 2.
No, it's a remake.
Can I count?

(44:36):
Is it blasphemy to call it aremake?
But you kind of see, my pointis that it's a movie that never
needed a sequel.
Todd Phillips was probablysitting there like I got my
point across, I did the thingand I guarantee you that Warner
Brothers walked in and like putBruce Wayne at the end of the
movie becoming Batman.
He's like do I have to?

(44:57):
And he's like they're like yeah, you do have to.
He's like fine, you goteverything out of the first
movie.
So he's like why am I evenwaste?
Give me money to do somethingelse.
Why are you?
I don't want the second movie.

(45:19):
So it just feels like somebodythat does not want to be
directing this movie and Igenuinely think todd phillips is
probably because what was thething that he was on some ranch
on the opening weekend of themovie.
He wasn't even like yeah, hewas I, I, he knew what was going
to happen and we kind of agreed.
He intentionally did everythingin this movie on purpose to get
that reaction yeah, and thismovie is just boring.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
There you go.
We could talk about the plot,but I don't really want to
because nothing happens for twohours.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
It's kind of crazy.
It's such a standstill film.
Because nothing, nothing, sowhat?
Let me ask you what's the goalof a film which goal?

Speaker 2 (46:01):
the goal of the movie itself or todd phillips goal?
No, the goal of a movie itself,oh the goal of a movie is to
take you on the journey, to tella story.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
Exactly what's the story of this movie, I mean?

Speaker 2 (46:11):
it's literally.
This movie could have been.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
See, not to cut you off, but your struggle to even
answer that question was exactlywhat I needed to know.
That's the exact thing I neededto know.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
The way the story of this movie goes and the way it's
framed, it makes it seem likethis movie could have been a
45-minute episode of Law Order.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
I'm thinking about like movies like you know, 12,
angry man, the trial of thechicago, seven.
Like films like that.
Like you should have made thatthe whole cell of this movie.
It's the trial of arc of thefleck.
Like that should have been theovert cell of this whole movie.
Should have been that.
And then you have, and thenwhat you could have restructured
was had this, you know.
Now you have your new characterinto this franchise.

(46:53):
You have Harley.
I don't know why they wanted totake away so badly that she is
the psychiatrist and play it aslike a aha moment later in the
movie.
Why not just have her actuallybe the psychiatrist in this
movie?
So her character goes on adefinitive arc.
Her character does not changethe whole movie.
That's the same character.
There's no arc for her.
The whole movie she's the samecharacter.

(47:13):
There's no arc for her.
The whole movie she's the sameexact person.
I don't know a character thatgoes on an arc.
This movie, nobody.
Arthur doesn't.
Arthur doesn't change.
Arthur's still Arthur.
He doesn't change the wholemovie.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
No, and it's supposed to be this kind of like big, I
guess this big twist momentwhere he's like I don't want to
be the Joker anymore and likeokay.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
But we knew that, but we knew that the whole movie.

Speaker 2 (47:32):
Yeah, and to your point, if you're going to build
this movie, it's part musicalpart, courtroom drama part I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
Now say that again.
Part musical part courtroomdrama, I don't know what Joker
movie that I never want to seethat.
Those were the.
That's the elements that got meout of the seat.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
But the elements, the courtroom drama elements, don't
work.
Well, that's the elements thatgot me out of the seat, but the
elements, the courtroom dramaelements, don't work.
Because what makes?
You know, I'm thinking of, likeyou said, like to your point,
like 12 angry men you're talkingabout.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
You know, there've been some great um courtroom
drama films, you know sense of awoman Like I'm thinking like,
um, what's the one with, uh,what's the one with Philadelphia
, with Denzel and Tom Hanks?
We still have to do our Denzeland Tom Hanks episode I mean A
Few Good Men is obviously thepinnacle of this.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
And what makes those movies so good is, and what
makes the courtroom drama kindof enthralling is you don't know
which way it's going to go Withthis movie.
He's guilty.
There was never a doubt in mymind of how the trial was going
to go.
There's never a doubt in mymind of how the trial was going
to go.
There's never a doubt in mymind that, oh, is he going to.
I think the scene where hefires his lawyer and jokers up

(48:40):
is the moment where you'resupposed to feel like he's going
to do something.
He's going to win the peopleover again.
No, he's going to.
This is where he becomes thejoker.
He's going to do some jokerstuff.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
And this movie is weirdly short in that because or
not even because this movie's220.
I think it's like 218.
Yeah, it's long, yeah, it'slong, so that your counterpiece
would be the jury itself.
Like nobody on that jury was,you could have easily thrown one
person on that jury was out onthat night when he killed mary
franklin.
He went out.
Nobody on that jury was likethat jury had no soul.
They had no life.

(49:14):
They had no soul.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
I don't think you even see like a shot of them
really in the movie.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
It's just they turned to them at the end.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
And then there's this there's this moment where I
think, like I said, there's thismoment where he, where he
jokers up, he fires his lawyer.
He comes in the courtroom thenext day, dresses the joker and
you're supposed to think likethis is, this is the moment,
right, this is where he turns itup.
And then he goes into thisweird foghorn leghorn attorney
caricature.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
That's not even that funny, but you want to talk
about time wasters like what arewe doing?
Like what are we wasting ourtime with this for?
Like where is this getting us?
We know all these things.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
We know what happened ?
Yeah, he has.
And then he I guess, like thebig, the big aha moment of the
movie, the big cathartic momentthe movie is when gary puddles
comes in and he tells his hisstory of being terrified of
arthur and arthur saying like Ispared you this, that and the
other thing.
And it's supposed to be thismoment for arthur where, like he
realizes he sucks, but again heturns it into this like weird

(50:11):
foghorn leghorn, like let metell you something Puddle Is
that your real name.
And A it's not funny, b itdoesn't do anything?

Speaker 1 (50:20):
Exactly that's my issue.
Nothing changed, no, and toyour point, we already know
what's going to happen.
We know he's going to lose andthe same thing we knew he was
going to lose the trial.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
We know something's gonna happen at the end to get
him out of the situation againand you know, ultimately what
happens is.
So he has this big moment where, like he becomes, he becomes
the joker again and he feelspretty good about himself.
And then he goes back to arkhamasylum.
He's dressed as the joker.
He says in the trial he saidall these disparaging things
about the, the guards at arkham.
So he gets back to arkham asthe joker and they it's implied
that they sexually assault him.
Um, and they pick, and thatmoment is where he apparently

(51:00):
realizes he doesn't want to bethe joker anymore.
I, I don't, I don't.
It's like again, like this istodd phillips, literally
rebuking the fact that, likethis character, this, this man,
was never meant to be idolizedas some sort of hero or
anti-hero or otherwise he is.
He is this representation andthis symbol of how society just

(51:22):
doesn't care about people likearthur flick.
And he thought, like everyone,everyone in his life and
everyone in this movie that hethinks, reveres him or cares for
him ultimately kicks him in thenuts by the end of this movie.
Every single one of them, fromBrendan Gleeson, who he had a
decent relationship with,literally is the one who drags

(51:44):
him into the bathroom and theguards it's implied again that
they sexually assault him.
His attorney gives up on himafter she realizes he he sucks,
yeah.
Um, the public who, the publicof gotham that that were kind of
like in his corner, um, turn onhim, essentially, except for
that one guy at the end thatrescues him.

(52:05):
Um, and and harley right turnson him.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
Yeah, because it's implied that she never even
really gave a shit about him,and I mean we can shift to
Harley for a little bit.
Like I said, the performancesare good.
This movie is technically sound.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
This movie looks great.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
It's just character-wise.
That is such a confusingapproach to her character that
I've seen, Because there's nodissent.
The reason that his characterworks in the first one is
because you literally witnessthe dissent all the way down to
the murder.
There's no dissent for her.
She's the same characterthrough and through the aha, I
gotcha moment for her.

Speaker 2 (52:45):
Okay you know what I mean.
Yeah, which is the aha momentfor her is and we're spoiling
this movie, by the way, becausewho cares um?
The aha moment is that it'srevealed through arthur's
attorney that harley was neverthis crazy inmate who burned her
parents house down.
She was, she volunteered to goto arkham asylum for, like a
character study, essentiallyright um, because she does have

(53:06):
a background in psychiatry, sheis well off, she's rich, um, and
it's implied that she just kindof went there just for a, for a
, for a hoot yeah, because shewas obsessed with the joker, but
also not seem to care that muchabout him.
The ending.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
see, this is the thing.
Remember how days before, likewhen the press started seeing
this movie, everybody wasfreaking about out the ending.
I thought it was going to besome trippy musical sequence
where, like, batman showed upand some like, can I spoil it?
Yeah, he just gets stabbed.
He gets stabbed by the Joker,but who subsequently, we believe

(53:44):
, will become the actual in thatuniverse, this actual Joker?

Speaker 2 (53:47):
But who cares?
Because none of this matters.
It doesn't matter anymore.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
But also to that point, the biggest party foul is
the way they left off Harley'scharacter.
That was the biggest party fouleven first.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
Yeah, what was that?

Speaker 1 (54:01):
I don't understand the whole.
What happened to?

Speaker 2 (54:03):
her Because you're not supposed to.
I guess you're supposed to feelsomething for that scene at the
stairwell when Arthur's like wecan be together and Harley's
like get lost, you're not theJoker.
And I'm like what I'm just likeagain, like it's a
bastardization of the HarleyQuinn character in the sense
that, like there is no worldwhere Harley Quinn can be in a

(54:26):
movie like this, or not even amovie like this, like any type
of movie, you put the harleyquinn character in a movie.
It should not.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
I should not be able to say you can take harley quinn
out of the, out of this movie,and the movie doesn't change you
can replace her with anybody.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
That character that character is built, that
character is literally wascreated in the 90s.
That character was literallycreated to be magnetic.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
When she's on the screen she's this tour de force
of like unhinged devotion, andthen later she matures and she,
you know that character goes ona really interesting arc
Historically and the first partof that is what you need to see
in that movie.
And, like I said, it's thedescent to being like I'm your
psychiatrist, but why do I also?
Why am I falling in love withlike this doesn't make any sense

(55:07):
.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
But you know why that doesn't work in this universe?
Because he's not charismatic.
No, it's not.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
Joaquin Phoenix, is it?
It's the way that thischaracter Again, this is Todd
Phillips usurping everythingfrom the first movie, because he
easily could have tipped thescale to get him there, but he
just said he's not supposed tobe, I'm trying to tell you guys
something.
You guys aren't listening.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
He's not supposed to be that trying to tell you guys
something.
You guys aren't listening.
He's not supposed to be, he'snot supposed to be.
Um, and that's the point.
Like you wouldn't be able to dothat cell with the harley
character because you couldn'tbelievably get there, like you
couldn't believably get to thatcharacter falling for this
character, because he's just not.
He's just not him, he's justnot charismatic, he's not
because the Joker, historicallyin the comics obviously a

(55:52):
psychopath, sociopath has thismagnetism, yes, this charismatic
nature to him that draws in hisgang, the Joker gang.
It draws in Harley for a long,long time.
Right, it draws In a weird way.
It draws in Batman, batman, yep, you know Joker has this kind
of, you know, magnetism to himthat arthur fleck just does not

(56:17):
have, was never meant to have.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
um, and I think that's that courtroom scene is
is emblematic of that whereyou're supposed to think here he
comes, here's the joker, thejokerness because if they fully
committed to this movie in theway that you know, let's try to
do everything you know to makesure this is the best movie
possible like you would havebeen in that courtroom scene,
like that jury wouldn't.
You would have had the reactionshots of the jury, like

(56:40):
listening.
But like I said, you, he turnsinto this like not joaquin
himself, the movie dictates thathe turned in.
This weird, like it's sooff-putting, like it's like
there's no even, like it's likethere's no even, like it's not
funny.
There's no, exactly, there's noironic charisma to it, it's
just weird.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
Yeah, You're just.
You can check the peep, thereaction shots of the people in
the courtroom.
They're like, yeah, what?

Speaker 1 (57:02):
is.
What is this?
Yeah, this movie is like acheck engine light, but this
something's up.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
And I don't want to go all Heath Ledger about this,
but, like, if you take, if youtook the Heath Ledger Joker and
ported him into that courtroomscene, right, just not even
throw the script out, it's justthe Heath Ledger, heath Ledger
Joker doing Heath Ledger Jokerthings in that courtroom, the
scene is probably way better,right, Like, because that
character is believablycharismatic.

(57:30):
You know, character isbelievably charismatic.
You know, to the point wherepeople watch the dark knight and
they're like um, um, and that'show people kind of walked away
from the first joker movie is.
They're like this guy's makingpoints.
and then todd phillips was likewhoa, whoa whoa, whoa no, no,
first of all, he was neversupposed to make points.

(57:50):
He was supposed to be thesymbol of a failed society and
you guys idolized him for that.
And now I'm going to kick thischaracter that you guys got
behind, which I mean all thepower to him, which is fine,
because I also think it was amistake for people to be
idolizing Arthur Fleck and belike, no, he's right.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
Like no, he's not right.
That was a crazy time.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
That was insane.
Like he's not right.
Um, so todd phillips just tookthis movie and he took 200
million dollars and was like I'mgonna kick this character for
two and a half hours and thenI'm gonna leave him on the floor
dead, literally on the floordead and then, after the movie
came out, it was this toddphillips being like he was never
the joker, and I'm like then,why did you?
why'd you make the first moviethen?
Why'd you call it Joker?
Then you could have just madethis movie about this guy who

(58:36):
became a mass murderer Becausethat movie wouldn't have made a
billion dollars, correct?
That's it.
So I mean this movie is.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
I mean by one, our new trend of our one word
summary of this movie.
What's your one word summary ofthis movie?
Boring, boring of our one wordsummary of this movie.
What's your one word summary?

Speaker 2 (58:55):
of this movie, boring Boring Mine is perplexing.
I was going to say confusingyeah.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Confusing was the other word Perplexed by this
movie, top to bottompre-production, post-production.
You know everything about thismovie is I'm perplexed of every
single decision and approach.
The only thing I have clarityon, in our opinion, is that todd
phillips was like no, I, why am, why am I here?
I, why am I making this movie?

Speaker 2 (59:16):
I did not want to do this and we've gone, I don't
know 30, 35 minutes talkingabout this movie.
We didn't touch upon themusical aspect of it at all that
should.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
That should speak volumes.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
And there's a few musical numbers in this the, the
mountain one.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
The mountain one is good, that's the best one.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
It's Lady Gaga doing, it's the closest she gets to
what we thought this movie couldhave been Yep, where her range
goes up, her octaves go up andshe really starts giving it the
Lady Gaga You're like.
Oh, I thought when he does theSinatra song in the interview
was the closest he got to Walkthe Line it to.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
Walk the Line.
That's also the closest he gotto the first Joker movie.
In my opinion, too, that's theclosest dip back into what I
remembered that character from2019 as I did like that when he
does the Sinatra song.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
I thought that was good.
But again, most of the musicalbits in this are largely
forgettable For a movie.
Whether Toddips wants to admitit's a musical or not, um, for a
movie.

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
That was also crazy that he just would not admit
that this movie, this movie hadmusic.
This is a musical.
It is this takes breaks to havemusical.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
That's a musical, yeah it takes breaks to do these
, you know, really intricate,really psych, psychologically
confusing kind of which Ithought if you would have made
the whole movie that could havebeen really, really cool.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
Like I said, what other character better to do it
than an established moviefranchise?
That, if you're going to do thesecond one, what an approach to
do a musical.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Like I like the intercuts to like the Joker and
Harley like the talk show, whichkind of like dives into his
psyche of like how much heattaches to like the murray
barlett thing.
Like that he's imagining himand harley having like their own
talk show.
Like that is a direct kind oflike psychological link to what
happens at the end of the firstone and I think that's really
interesting.
But they just don't do anythingnothing happens with it.

(01:01:08):
um, I mean, it's teased.
It's teased that she going toturn on him because in one of
those instances she shoots himand he's like that's not funny
and that, weirdly enough, is theclosest this movie ever gets to
any sort of Joker-Harleyfun-ness is when she shoots him.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
Oh, that might be the best point that you made.
That Joker-Harley dynamicDoesn't work.
It doesn't work and it's just.
It's borderline, just it's just.
It doesn't feel like it'sneeded for a movie that that
should be a crutch that you leanon and it's not earned.
No, it's not at all, and that'swhy the ending of this movie,
not the ending ending, that'swhy the Harley ending of this
movie is so confusing.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Like she shows up on screen, like within what?
The first like 20 minutes, andthey're like instantly in love,
right, and you're like where didthis come from?

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
like this isn't they try to play on it a little bit
that his, that arthur himself,like the women in his life, how
closely he attaches themselvesto the women because of his
mother, which is fine, sure,which works.
But like she also weirdly likejust falls for him like
instantly, which is nothistorically how the so my
question do we know because I'mtrying to remember do we know if

(01:02:17):
she was obsessed with him outof the gate, like before he got
there, if she was just doingthat character study without
because she obviously she wasn'tbanking on him going to that,
to that class?

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
right.
Yeah, it's never explained,it's it's.
It's left openly ambiguouswhether she actually even cared
for him at all.
I mean, obviously she didn'tcare for Arthur, but it's it's.
It's also not very clearwhether she was even in on the
Joker character or as if she wasjust doing this as part of like
a big psychological study.
I think if you build this moviein the sense where the climax

(01:02:51):
of the movie is like, I thinkthis movie in an alternate
universe, where Todd Phillipsactually wanted to make a good
movie is, the movie isessentially cut a between the
courtroom drama and be insteadof all these puzzling Arkham
asylum scenes.
You make the Arkham asylumscenes just Joker and Harley
interviews.
Like you make her.
You actually make her hispsychiatrist Exactly, you

(01:03:12):
actually make her hispsychiatrist and Exactly.
You actually make her hispsychiatrist and you have these
scenes where they're kind ofshe's trying to first like crack
him and, you know, treat himlike a patient and then, slowly
but surely, she starts fallingfor him because he's this
weirdly and you fall in lovethrough the song yes, and some
stark, dark, twisted fantasy,yeah.

(01:03:32):
And then you intersperse thatwith the courtroom drama and you
can still do all the stuff atthe end where he gets broke.
But in this alternate universehe would get broken out, and by
the time he gets broken out he'sall in, he's all in as the
Joker.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
Or if you're going to do this split personality like
kill Arthur Fleck to become theJoker and that's it.
The Joker has no identity.
That's always who I've been.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
Yeah, and you can do that and still not have the
character be like quote unquoteidolized.
You still make it clear thathe's a bad guy, you still make
it clear that he's a villain,but make him the Joker, right,
and I'd love that.
What you said right then islike the perfect way that you
could have done it.
And when that explosion happensand he gets knocked to the
ground, arthur Fleck is dead atthat moment and he re.

(01:04:17):
He's reborn as the Joker andthat's all he ever is and that's
the end of it.
Yep, and then you conceivablydon't even need to see the
character ever again.
No, and you just leave it atthat.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
Yep, and I think that two of them and like she's
fully bought in, like her site,and she goes on his arc from the
first movie in a little bit ofa different way and he goes on
his movie that or his arc fromthe second movie that he
naturally should have went on.
Um, it's like that quote thatsays you know that tarantino
talks about like I just get mypen to the paper, the characters
will lead the pen down thepaper yeah, like this movie is a

(01:04:48):
definition of like you'retrying to like it's trying to
turn you off the road as much asit can manually Like.
that should be automatic.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
That's literally what it is.
It's like it's Todd Phillips,is literally like hanging over
us, being like you want to feelthis.
I'm going to make you feel this.
You want to.
You want this character to gothis way.
I'm going to purposely make himgo this way to spite you
essentially.
And you know my, you know my,through line with all of these
movies that I review, is askingthe question who is this movie
for?
And I don't know.
Not for me, it's for you, it'snot for.

(01:05:19):
It's not for musical fans, it'snot for musical fans.
It's not for comic book moviefans.
It's not for comic book moviefans.

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
It's not for people who like the first one.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
No, it's not for people who didn't like the first
one.
Yeah, it's, it's it.
It's this movie's for toddphillips and this movie is for
todd phillips.
Yes, yes, he, he, he had and,like I said, in a weird way, I
have to respect it.
That and that's what I said too.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
I said if you're gonna do it, commit, commit to
the commit to the bit because Imean he's never gonna work for
warner brothers again,absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
He might not work for a while.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
He I have a.
I have a.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
I have a sick feeling in my stomach that he's, that
he's done, he might getblackballed yeah, which would be
kind of it, you know, for theguy that made the hangover and
road trip and the first jokermovie like it's, it's, you know,
I guess this is the only waythis could have could have ended
.
Is this guy you know?
He, he?

(01:06:18):
He not even went for it.
It was just a sense of like.
It's so crazy to me that thatnobody saw it coming, like if
this was his intention.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
Maybe he's the, maybe he was the joke, maybe he was
the joker all along like if no,the joker is the friends you
make along the way, and whichsubsequently wasn't harley in
this movie for some reason ifpeople, someone, some, someone
at wonder brother somewhere,read this script and was like it
looks great.
You know like no one read thisscript no, I guarantee you they
read the script and well they,they like, skimmed through the

(01:06:50):
script.
They saw joker harley.
They said, good, go makeanother billion we're worried
about.
Like we got other stuff toworry about, go ahead, that's a
free.
I guarantee you, in their mindthey're like oh, that's a free
billion, we don't gotta worry,that's a free billion.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
That's at least like a free 700 million, we're good
and it also makes sense that youknow, I know people made a lot
of the the him refusing any typeof input from jamesn or Peter
Safran.
But it also makes sense becausethey were probably like, hey,
man, we're going to try to helpyou make a good movie and Todd
Phillips was like no, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
I don't need your help.
I'm not interested in making agood movie.
Sorry, guys, and they wereprobably also.
He probably had a position likea leverage situation too where
he's like a Scorsese, nolanSpielberg type of power.

(01:07:39):
When you get that B, when youget that B on the dollars.
Things like that tend to happenfor you.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
It's the perfect recipe for him to do this,
because no one could tell him.
No, he was going to make thismovie and again I want to
reiterate that he got greatperformances out of Lady Gaga
and Joaquin Phoenix.
He really, really did.
The performances across theboard are really good.
Brendan Gleeson is really goodin this movie.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
The guy that plays Harvey Dent.
He's good in this movie as well.
He becomes Two-Face at the end.
I thought he was just sittingthere, shocked.

Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
Well, half of his face was burned from the
explosion.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
Oh, I thought he was just sitting there.
His whole face was just coveredin like the dust, no, like half
of his face was like burned andhe's two-faced now.
But what Todd Phillips justlike threw that in was like an
extra, like just fucking Wellyou know, what would have been
better If he didn't do it, if hejust, like the explosion went
off and he was just he likewiped his face off.
He's like I'm just a lawyer,I'm not.

(01:08:38):
I'm not a psychopathic killer.

Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
And yeah, like you said, Arthur gets stabbed.
At the end he's left dead inArkham Asylum by the.
And then this other Jokeroffscreen cuts the smile and
gives himself the old smile withthe knife.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
Now.
Okay Now, because this is thelast thing I will address.
Can everybody relax?
I thought this ending of thismovie was like the worst thing
that ever happened in cinema.
Yeah, no, People were gassingthat ending like it was the
worst thing that had everhappened in history.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
Well, because people gaslit themselves into being
like this is my Joker, damn it,you don't treat him like this.
And I left it and I'm like I'mglad he's dead.

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
Yeah, but, and like I left it and I'm like I'm glad
he's dead.

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
Yeah, but much of the lives that that second joker
saves from him being dead, yeah.
Like I don't.
I don't care that arthur's dead.

Speaker 1 (01:09:29):
Like I wasn't particularly bothered I care for
that character went out thewindow yeah, I lost all.

Speaker 2 (01:09:35):
I never had sympathy for him but, like I, I lost all
interest in that characterwithin like the first like 35
minutes of this movie.
Like I'm just like, all right,I'm, I'm over this.
Like I, I lost all interest inthat character within like the
first like 35 minutes of thismovie.
Like I'm just like, all right,I'm, I'm over this, like I'm
over the shtick here.
Like what this character islike, I don't care anymore.
So I'm glad he's dead and I'mI'm really interested in never
returning to this weird notbatman universe ever again.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
You should have just made the first one and gave the
money elsewhere.
Yeah, and just left it.
Just left it.
Very confusing.
This is a perplexing film, I'mdone.
I've never been left stunned bylike.

Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
I just left.
I got up and I left and I'mjust like, all right, that's it,
he's dead.
Good, thank you, like I said,he's dead.
Good, thank you, like again,like I said.
And just just a massiverepudiation of of this franchise
, right, franchise, quoteunquote by todd phillips.
That's what that's.
That's what the second movie is.

(01:10:34):
Is he, was he slammed the dooron it's funny like he.
He really had no interest inthe joker character, so like I
feel like he slammed the door onany any's funny.
He really had no interest inthe Joker character, so I feel
like he slammed the door on anyJoker thing for years.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
Yeah, Barry Keoghan's probably punching air a bit, no
, or unless they want thatspecifically to get that taste
out of the mouth.
And Barry Keoghan's becominguber famous by the day.
Maybe, but I just feel likethis movie, I just don't think
it's for Batman Part 2, I stilldon't think they're going to
pull on it, unless they do youridea where they do the Hannibal
Lecter thing and he's in Arkhamand him and Batman are

(01:11:09):
essentially kind of workingtogether a bit before he gets
broken out by the end.

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
That'd be kind of cool, but at the same time I
feel like people are going to belike jokered out, like they're
like ah, you know especiallyafter Jared Leto, and then this
yeah, I mean he's.
You know we can.
I guess we can just end thelike.
There was this debate for alittle while.

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
Ledger Joaquin, it's over unfortunately it's over,
and it's not Joaquin's faulteither no, it's not, but it's
over, it's over.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
And it's not Joaquin's fault either.
No, it's not, but it's over,it's over.
Um, yeah, cesar Romero, I, it'sman, it's.
I would say it's a shame, butit's.
Cameron Monaghan pretty good,not bad, not a bad joker channel
.
Favorite Cameron Monaghan.
We love Cameron Monaghan here.

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
Um, that's it yeah, I don't even want to give out
awards this movie doesn'tdeserve any awards.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
I mean any awards that we could give.
It would be, you know, again,performances there wasn't it
wasn't funny.
There wasn't any.
That's the crazy part about it,like even like going back.
I don't want to keep going backto Ledger's Joker, but like
that character's funny yeahcharacter's funny.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
Yeah, what did he say when he's walking in with the,
with the bomb?
Yeah, he's like are you, areyou nuts?

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
yeah yeah, gamble here skip that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:33):
He does when he, like the first bomb doesn't go off
at the hospital.

Speaker 2 (01:12:36):
He's like oh well, oh god oh, gamble has a boot,
won't be able to afford for hisgrandma.
Whatever he says about Gamble'sgrandma, he's like enough with
the clown.

Speaker 1 (01:12:48):
He's like ah, let's not blow things out of
proportion here like thatcharacter's funny, but then he
gets those little fits of rageoh yeah yeah, that's the
difference.

Speaker 2 (01:12:59):
And then this Joaquin's Joker gets up there in
the courtroom and he's justagain, he turns into gambit for
some reason.

Speaker 1 (01:13:05):
Yeah, what was that?
I don't know I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
I'm just like, oh, this is supposed to be like his
joker moment and he's just he'sfailing because arthur's playing
.
Yes, yes, arthur is he.
He is portraying the idea ofthe joker in the way that people
think he's supposed to be thejoker, because the joker doesn't
exist right?

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
am I understanding the movie?
Let's get out of here, man.
I don't, I don't, I don't wantto talk about this anymore yeah,
we're.

Speaker 2 (01:13:34):
We're gearing up to talk about a good movie next
week.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
Yeah venom part three knolls in this one.

Speaker 2 (01:13:41):
I think I said I think I said last week, like
when we were doing all thoselike fake Joker 2 subtitles, and
I think I really I think I saidJoker 2, the joke's on us it
was, yeah, it was.
Joker 2 the joke.

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
The joke was on us actually Joker, joker, folia,
you idiot we were the folia doall along, lord.

Speaker 2 (01:14:01):
I'm glad it's over.
I didn't think I didn't youknow what?

Speaker 1 (01:14:05):
oh god what.
The fact that venom is going tobe a better movie than joker
was not on my big non-zerochance that that venom at least.

Speaker 2 (01:14:14):
There's a one hundred .
There's a non-zero chance thatit's an actually better movie.
There's a 100 percent chanceit's going to be more enjoyable
that's what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:14:20):
The early reviews are saying that this movie slaps a
bit I didn't think going back tojoker quick like I.

Speaker 2 (01:14:26):
I remember my famous, my famous line after after the
flash.
After we saw the flash and wereviewed it, my famous line was
like I'm glad it's done.
I feel the same exact way aboutthis joker movie like I'm glad
it's over, I'm glad thediscourse is done, I'm glad this
character is dead, I'm like I'mglad I just don't have to hear
about it anymore, like that's.
That's where I'm at like,because this movie got the first

(01:14:47):
one, got such like thisfollowing from people being like
this is the best thing they'veever done, because it's so
against the grain and fucksociety.
And I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa,whoa, whoa, like.
So I'm glad that Todd Phillipsdid this and was like no, this
guy sucks and he deserves to bedead.
But yes, we are going to talkabout Venom next week.

(01:15:10):
It is out this Thursday,thursday, friday, so we'll try
and see it at some point andreview it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:18):
Yeah, noel's in this one, noel's.
In this one.
We can't say who plays him yet,but we know.

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):
We know, I think everybody knows, don't they no?

Speaker 1 (01:15:27):
it's leaked, but let's save the surprise for
those who don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:15:30):
Yeah, it's pretty good.
It's pretty good.
I'm glad that they specificallylistened to this podcast when
we were like, put Noel in it,you cowards.
And then they did, and then thefirst trailer came out and I'm
like, oh no, they're not goingto do Noel, are they?

Speaker 1 (01:15:46):
And then they said full send Noel.
I can't believe that they'regoing to do Noel for Spider-Man
4.

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
I know, and Donny Cates, who's the creator of Noel
, was like he's like I'm notgoing to lie, I'm pretty excited
for, like what they're gonna dowith Nolan.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
I'm like oh, cause that's what I keep hearing about
.

Speaker 2 (01:16:02):
Nope, that's all I'll say yeah, this movie might be
fun.
This movie's gonna be fun, butthis movie might be good did you
see Tom Hardy at the premiere?

Speaker 1 (01:16:12):
he had like a shirt on, he just had like a.
He just had like a polo on.
He's like guys, I'm here,showed up, tom Hardy, march Safe
.

Speaker 2 (01:16:21):
I'm looking forward to it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:25):
In a weird way, I'm in now.

Speaker 2 (01:16:27):
See, you came all the way around.
You came all the way around.
I've been on this bandwagonsince day one.
I think the first one after thefirst half hour is quite fun.
Yeah, the second one hasmoments of fun, but I don't
think it's as good as the firstone.

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
No, the second one is a post-credits scene.
It's a pre-credits scene WithCarnage in it, with Carnage For
four seconds.

Speaker 2 (01:16:47):
Not you father, you father.

Speaker 1 (01:16:49):
Maybe one of the greatest jokes in any film.

Speaker 2 (01:16:50):
See that Carnage should not be funnier than the.

Speaker 1 (01:16:53):
Joker.
Yeah, that's tough that, but hewas for some reason.
Um.
Apparently the third act ofthis movie is just nuts amazing
you want to get nuts let's getnuts.
Put michael keaton in account.
Oh, there's a.
There's not a zero chance thathe's in this, that he's not in

(01:17:17):
this movie.

Speaker 2 (01:17:17):
I don't know how I got here but I think it has
something to do with spider-Manthough.

Speaker 1 (01:17:20):
How many times are you going to use that Michael
Keaton?
Michael Keaton just hosted SNL.
He did Venom Horse, venom Fish,venom Fish, venom Frog Venom
Frog is for sure in this.
Show us how I drew for him whowe thought was going to be Noel.
Still what.
Still what she was, but the guywho they got yeah, um, reese

(01:17:41):
Fonz is gonna show up in this.

Speaker 2 (01:17:43):
Who is he?
Who's here?

Speaker 1 (01:17:44):
who's here?
Who's he, who's he?
Ah, venom, I can't wait.
Venom, venom you think?
Venom's gonna do another song.

Speaker 2 (01:17:54):
I hope so.
Venom is the third movie ofVenom Venom, venom, venom, venom
, venom.
Toxin is in this, I think, sowhat.

Speaker 1 (01:18:05):
Whoever that cop is, I'm in, it doesn't matter, I'm
in.

Speaker 2 (01:18:09):
Also that cop like they teased the cop at the end
of the second one, to be, like,I guess, the main villain of the
third one.
But now it just appears he'sgoing to be like confined to a
prison cell, being like thesymbiotes are coming.
He was right.
Like the symbiotes are coming,he was right.

Speaker 1 (01:18:20):
That guy was a psycho .
He was right.

Speaker 2 (01:18:21):
I have a symbiote in me.

Speaker 1 (01:18:23):
He's the guy that in all the DC comics holds up the
sign that says the end is nigh.
He's that guy.

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
I have toxin and the end was nigh.

Speaker 1 (01:18:29):
The end was actually nigh.

Speaker 2 (01:18:30):
I have toxin in me, not a toxin Toxin from Marvel
Comics, me what?

Speaker 1 (01:18:39):
We gotta go man.

Speaker 2 (01:18:42):
Are they gonna put another symbiote in this Like a
named one?
No, they're not gonna put in.
Uh, what's my guy's name?
Cut it out.
Gus, kurt, whatever the senseof.

Speaker 1 (01:18:52):
Marcus.

Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
Marcus.
No, marcus, you're telling methey put a Venom horse in this,
but not putting in Marcus, thesymbiote centaur vampire.

Speaker 1 (01:19:01):
Oh, maybe that's who Tom Holland's going to play in
the Nolan movie Marcus thecentaur.
I knew Nolan would do a Marvelthing eventually is Extribiote
going to be in this.

Speaker 2 (01:19:12):
No, I can't wait.
I can't wait for this movie.
It's so dumb, but it's again.
I'm not going to have to asknext week when we review this
who is this movie for again.
I'm not going to have to asknext week when we review this
who is this movie for.
It's for me specifically.

Speaker 1 (01:19:25):
Is this movie for?
You're going to leave the tagfor Rob at the end.

Speaker 2 (01:19:28):
Apparently there's two post-credit scenes and one
of them is like the mostperplexing post-credit scene in
history.
Yeah, I can't wait.
I hope it's.

Speaker 1 (01:19:34):
Michael Keaton again.

Speaker 2 (01:19:44):
Yeah, they just do the same again.
Morbius, no, do they say,perplexing like okay, thanos, he
picks up the, he picks up thenecro sword.
Fine, I'll do it myself.
No, no does that at the endit's just a shot for shot, um
redo of the age of ultra I can'tbelieve that sony had the balls
.

Speaker 1 (01:20:00):
I can't believe it.
And they the balls.
I can't believe it.
And they're going to makeSpider-Man 4 because Tom Hardy's
going to be in Spider-Man 4,yes, yeah, probably Because he
said he's done with Venom.
Yeah, yeah, he saidspecifically.
What did he say?

Speaker 2 (01:20:13):
I'm done making the movie, but I want to.

Speaker 1 (01:20:15):
I'd play the character again.
You're going to play thecharacter?

Speaker 2 (01:20:17):
again my guy yeah, kevin Feige's like no.

Speaker 1 (01:20:21):
Kevin Feige's like thank God for another billion
dollars.

Speaker 2 (01:20:24):
He said I'll let you do Spider-Man, I'll let you guys
have a Spider-Man 4 if youcould get Null in by the third
Venom movie.
And Sony said challengeaccepted, Kevin.

Speaker 1 (01:20:32):
Feige's probably going to say they'll never do
that right.
They submitted the script andhe They'll never do that right,
does it?

Speaker 2 (01:20:38):
say gnoll in this, does it say gnoll, yeah, it does
.

Speaker 1 (01:20:42):
Spider-Man 4, attack of the Gnolls.

Speaker 2 (01:20:45):
Spider-Man 4, gnolls.
In this one Gnolls.
In this one Gnolls the villainGnolls the villain.

Speaker 1 (01:20:48):
They gotta start doing movie titles like that
Cowards.

Speaker 2 (01:20:51):
Yeah, none of this Foley-a-do nonsense.
Yeah, venom 3, I know he's inthis.
They did do that with thesecond one, though, like it
would be carnage.
It's as close.
It's as close you can get tothat actually happening.
This is the Fast and Furious ofsuperhero movies.
Yeah, it really is but theydon't have.

Speaker 1 (01:21:12):
They don't have like a is Venom, the Dom Toretto in
this, where he's the one that'sall about family yes, that's
what the whole second movie'sabout.

Speaker 2 (01:21:19):
Yeah, it is, I can't wait.
Venom 3 Venom's got a gamblingaddiction.

Speaker 1 (01:21:24):
Yeah weird, it's great.
This is Chen's got has a dancenumber.
Venom also has a dance number.

Speaker 2 (01:21:31):
I don't understand Venom 3 better musical than
Joker.
2 cut it out alright, man,let's get out of here.
You can follow us on twitter atproject inf underscore pod.
You can follow us on facebook.
You can follow us on youtube atyoutubecom slash project
infinite podcast.
You can follow us on instagramat the project infinite pod.

(01:21:51):
Next week venom 3 last dance.
What a name.
I'm excited, man, but I tellyou I have the complete opposite
thought from this movie that II did about Joker 2.
Where I'm like, I'm excited forthis one.

Speaker 1 (01:22:05):
Because they know what type of movie they're
making.

Speaker 2 (01:22:07):
Yeah, it's going to be ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (01:22:09):
It's going to be absurd.

Speaker 2 (01:22:10):
Tom Hardy's doing a voice.
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:22:12):
Multiple voices.
Where's he from?

Speaker 2 (01:22:14):
Eddie Brock?
I don't know.
He's from New Los Angeles York.

Speaker 1 (01:22:20):
Of Florida, of Florida.

Speaker 2 (01:22:25):
Of Miami-Dade County.
Where are all y'all?

Speaker 1 (01:22:27):
from when are all y'all from?

Speaker 2 (01:22:28):
In the Sony universe.

Speaker 1 (01:22:29):
No, where are all y'all from in the Tom Hardy
universe?
Where are all y'all from?
What were you doing in the bikeriders?

Speaker 2 (01:22:36):
What was he doing?
Riz Ahmed was in this franchise.
Yeah, he was, damn.
All right, let's get out ofhere From me.
Oh man, careful, oh no, you gotto be real careful.
Man.
Who's like the least worstcharacter in this movie, the
Harvey Dent of the podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:22:55):
Then I got half my face blown off.

Speaker 2 (01:22:58):
Yeah, but no one has to worry about it afterwards,
it'll never get revisited.
Oh, okay, perfect, face blownoff.
Yeah, but no one has to worryabout it afterwards, it'll never
get revisited.
It's fine, good lawyer, thatHarvey Dent?
Yeah, he was cooking, he wascool.
He didn't give one single fuckabout the Joker.

Speaker 1 (01:23:08):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:23:09):
He's like schizophrenic, this guy's all
lunatic.
Yeah, this guy's crazy Joker'slawyer was like he needs help
and Harvey Dent was like heneeds to be executed.

Speaker 1 (01:23:15):
And the people are like you know what yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:23:21):
Yeah, he needs mental help and Darth Vader was like
he needs to be put in a boxpermanently.

Speaker 1 (01:23:28):
And then he was yeah, he was by the second Joker.
Oh, do they need to do one more?
Do they need to do one morewhere that Joker gets killed?
And then they can do the threeJoker story.

Speaker 2 (01:23:37):
With one Joker that we know and two Jokers that were
anonymous off screen.

Speaker 1 (01:23:41):
See having noel in this movie.

Speaker 2 (01:23:43):
It's kind of like having batman who laughs and
like and like a tim drake ledmovie trilogy oh man insane I
thought when that that bombexploded in the courthouse, I
thought they were going to dolike the dark knight joker thing
, where all the Jokers kill eachother until the last Joker gets

(01:24:04):
away.
But then he just like they puthim in the car and he was just
like I don't know.
Holy crap, dude, you're the.

Speaker 1 (01:24:12):
Joker.
He's like no, I'm not, no, I'mnot.

Speaker 2 (01:24:15):
I'm Arthur Fleck.
I'm Arthur Fleck.

Speaker 1 (01:24:16):
Bye, goodbye.
My girlfriend's waiting at thetop of the famous stairs.
Then he gets chased by.

Speaker 2 (01:24:20):
Bigger Joker.
Remember when we saw that inthe trailer, we were like is he
having a psychotic breakdown?
No, he was just being chased byBigger Joker.

Speaker 1 (01:24:27):
Yeah, that guy's a unit.
That guy needs to play for theRavens or something.

Speaker 2 (01:24:31):
He just got chased by Bigger Joker Right and then
escaped, no, and then he gotarrested.
Yeah, he did, he just getsarrested.
Yeah, he just gets caught bythe police.

Speaker 1 (01:24:45):
It's almost as funny as an arrest, as the Thanos
getting taken in by the NYPD MCU.

Speaker 2 (01:24:53):
You cowards adapt that I guess he didn't stage the
escape.
But there's this big, elaborateescape.
He escapes through thealleyways in New York.
He meets up with Harley andthen he just the cops just
arrest him again and then hegets stabbed and dies.
That's how the movie ends.

Speaker 1 (01:25:10):
That's the last 15 minutes of this movie, harley
literally disappears into thesunset she goes up the stairs
instead of down the stairs.

Speaker 2 (01:25:17):
Did you catch that symbolism?
She went to heaven.
She ascended from the madness.
We're all mad here.
Who's here?
Who's here.

Speaker 1 (01:25:27):
Secret Invasion the best Marvel show there's ever
been.

Speaker 2 (01:25:30):
That really does happen.
In the last like 20 minutes heescapes, realizes well, he
already realized he didn't wantto be the Joker anymore.
They wasted anymore, get.
They wasted all that money onthe imax cameras.
He dives out of the taxi yep,he meets up with harley.
She's like get lost, you suck.
And then he just gets arrestedand then he gets stabbed to
death it's the best endingactually it's so stupid why do

(01:25:54):
people think that ending sucked?
I thought that ending was great.
He's just gonna get arrestedthen.
Then the guy was like also,that joke wasn't even that funny
the guy the joke of the guy thenew joker says at the end when
he was like a joker and a fraud,walk into a bar and then the
joker gets stabbed lol imaginethere was a guard there.

Speaker 1 (01:26:16):
He's like ah, let's get out of here, yeah, let's get
out of here.

Speaker 2 (01:26:22):
I I've had enough joker folia do the joke was on
us the whole time.
Thanks todd phillips.
I use my free.
I use my free ticket, though onit, so I didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:26:34):
I didn't lose that I also had my free ticket.
Yeah, so shout out cinemark,thank you for free tickets the
best bang for your buck.
This isn't a free tickets Bestbang for your buck.
This isn't a Cinemark promoBest bang for your buck.

Speaker 2 (01:26:44):
I also saw it at noon , so I didn't even lose.

Speaker 1 (01:26:46):
I also saw it early.
I saw it early too I didn'tlose my day.

Speaker 2 (01:26:49):
I didn't lose any money.
I think I just got a bottle ofwater.

Speaker 1 (01:26:53):
Yeah, that movie didn't dictate popcorn.

Speaker 2 (01:26:54):
No, no, no, no, no.
And I just sat there for twohours just with utter
befuddlement and confusion.
The way you want to leave amovie.

Speaker 1 (01:27:06):
That was the most Aronofsky quote I've ever heard.
It was me and there were likethree other people behind me.
Yeah, that was the openingweekend and there was, people
were just and I was in the bigtheater.

Speaker 2 (01:27:15):
I was in the XT theater.
People were just.
That was the emptiest I'd everseen that theater.

Speaker 1 (01:27:18):
Yeah people.

Speaker 2 (01:27:19):
Yeah, I didn't think it could be any emptier than
when we were to see the Marvels,but it was actually emptier
than that crazy.
At least we have Venom nextweek.
Venom, venom.
It's the third Venom Noel's inthis Venom movie.

Speaker 1 (01:27:31):
I can't believe they put Noel in that movie.
You psychopaths.
I can't believe it um all right.

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137 - Unraveling Blade's Delay & Unpacking What Went Wrong With Joker 2

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}137 - Unraveling Blade's Delay & Unpacking What Went Wrong With Joker 2